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{\"word\": \"所\", \"start\": 366.294, \"end\": 366.355, \"score\": 0.667}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 366.355, \"end\": 366.435, \"score\": 0.749}, {\"word\": \"最\", \"start\": 366.435, \"end\": 366.595, \"score\": 0.991}, {\"word\": \"後\", \"start\": 366.595, \"end\": 366.715, \"score\": 0.83}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 366.715, \"end\": 367.035, \"score\": 0.936}, {\"word\": \"結\"}, {\"word\": \"果\", \"start\": 367.035, \"end\": 367.155, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 367.155, \"end\": 367.256, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 367.256, \"end\": 367.416, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"看\", \"start\": 367.416, \"end\": 367.616, \"score\": 0.986}, {\"word\": \"起\", \"start\": 367.616, \"end\": 367.776, \"score\": 0.877}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"很\", \"start\": 367.776, \"end\": 367.956, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"多\", \"start\": 367.956, \"end\": 368.076, \"score\": 0.996}, {\"word\": \"人\", \"start\": 368.076, \"end\": 368.297, 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{\"word\": \"畢\"}, {\"word\": \"竟\", \"start\": 395.053, \"end\": 395.073, \"score\": 0.0}]}, {\"start\": 397.273, \"end\": 424.373, \"text\": \"這個字眼上一組折多協力這也是社安網的一個概念是不是可以去討論這種分工機制最好能夠寫出來我們的參考指引有沒有辦法我想誠如委員剛剛所說我們在整個社安網的規劃裡面確實就是一組折多協力那麼這裡面我們現在目前在我們現在也準備要進入到2.0那我在這邊有責成就是說要協調您剛剛所說的教育警政司法\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"字\", \"start\": 397.273, \"end\": 397.454, \"score\": 0.947}, {\"word\": \"眼\", \"start\": 397.454, \"end\": 397.694, \"score\": 0.962}, {\"word\": \"上\", \"start\": 397.694, \"end\": 398.114, \"score\": 0.874}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 398.114, \"end\": 398.735, \"score\": 0.964}, {\"word\": \"組\"}, {\"word\": \"折\", \"start\": 398.735, \"end\": 399.035, \"score\": 0.927}, {\"word\": \"多\", \"start\": 399.035, \"end\": 399.595, \"score\": 0.962}, {\"word\": \"協\"}, {\"word\": \"力\", \"start\": 399.595, \"end\": 400.015, \"score\": 0.877}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"也\", \"start\": 400.015, \"end\": 400.136, \"score\": 0.976}, 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\"score\": 0.818}, {\"word\": \"備\"}, {\"word\": \"要\", \"start\": 419.569, \"end\": 419.89, \"score\": 0.933}, {\"word\": \"進\"}, {\"word\": \"入\", \"start\": 419.89, \"end\": 420.45, \"score\": 0.833}, {\"word\": \"到\", \"start\": 420.45, \"end\": 420.63, \"score\": 0.826}, {\"word\": \"2\"}, {\"word\": \".\"}, {\"word\": \"0\"}, {\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 420.63, \"end\": 420.79, \"score\": 0.673}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 420.79, \"end\": 420.95, \"score\": 0.988}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 420.95, \"end\": 421.291, \"score\": 0.873}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"邊\"}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 421.291, \"end\": 421.611, \"score\": 0.923}, {\"word\": \"責\"}, {\"word\": \"成\", \"start\": 421.611, \"end\": 421.771, \"score\": 0.945}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 421.771, \"end\": 421.871, \"score\": 0.995}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 421.871, \"end\": 422.191, \"score\": 0.863}, {\"word\": \"說\"}, {\"word\": \"要\", \"start\": 422.191, \"end\": 422.892, \"score\": 0.928}, {\"word\": \"協\"}, {\"word\": \"調\"}, {\"word\": \"您\", \"start\": 422.892, \"end\": 423.232, \"score\": 0.87}, {\"word\": \"剛\"}, {\"word\": \"剛\"}, {\"word\": \"所\", \"start\": 423.232, \"end\": 423.492, \"score\": 0.863}, {\"word\": \"說\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 423.492, \"end\": 423.572, \"score\": 0.975}, {\"word\": \"教\", \"start\": 423.572, \"end\": 423.752, \"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"育\", \"start\": 423.752, \"end\": 423.872, \"score\": 0.962}, {\"word\": \"警\", \"start\": 423.872, \"end\": 424.033, \"score\": 0.879}, {\"word\": \"政\", \"start\": 424.033, \"end\": 424.213, \"score\": 0.899}, {\"word\": \"司\", \"start\": 424.213, \"end\": 424.353, \"score\": 0.938}, {\"word\": \"法\", \"start\": 424.353, \"end\": 424.373, \"score\": 0.949}]}, {\"start\": 424.753, \"end\": 453.255, \"text\": \"社政這邊其實最重要的應該是information system整個那個資訊系統然後讓他們整個相關的這一個單位他們都能夠把那個情況都能夠透過這個整個資訊系統彼此之間可以互相可以互相銜接那至於委員剛剛所說的麻煩衛福部這邊來做主導最後我想問那個矯正署長周署長這邊關於學生助理員的問題上次質詢後的書面報告有提及到會在相關會議中討論目前進度是什麼\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"社\", \"start\": 424.753, \"end\": 424.873, \"score\": 0.823}, {\"word\": \"政\", \"start\": 424.873, \"end\": 425.654, \"score\": 0.905}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"邊\"}, {\"word\": \"其\", \"start\": 425.654, \"end\": 425.914, \"score\": 0.904}, {\"word\": \"實\"}, {\"word\": \"最\", \"start\": 425.914, \"end\": 426.074, \"score\": 0.931}, {\"word\": \"重\", \"start\": 426.074, \"end\": 426.234, \"score\": 0.916}, {\"word\": \"要\", \"start\": 426.234, \"end\": 426.374, \"score\": 0.824}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 426.374, \"end\": 426.675, \"score\": 0.856}, {\"word\": \"應\"}, {\"word\": \"該\"}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 426.675, \"end\": 426.755, \"score\": 0.995}, {\"word\": \"i\", \"start\": 426.755, \"end\": 426.815, \"score\": 0.667}, {\"word\": \"n\", \"start\": 426.815, \"end\": 426.855, \"score\": 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\"score\": 0.851}, {\"word\": \"什\", \"start\": 453.235, \"end\": 453.255, \"score\": 0.73}, {\"word\": \"麼\"}]}, {\"start\": 457.068, \"end\": 479.628, \"text\": \"隨身住院這個聘用規劃我們還在評估當中還在評估當中那接下來我請彭署長那上次我在諮詢的時候也跟教育部說那你們整個的評估結果是什麼教育部我們會一起來協助矯正署大概7月3號會開會用正向的角度跟他們一起合作會積極來解決 謝謝\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"隨\"}, {\"word\": \"身\", \"start\": 457.068, \"end\": 457.849, \"score\": 0.974}, {\"word\": \"住\", \"start\": 457.849, \"end\": 458.169, \"score\": 0.933}, {\"word\": \"院\", \"start\": 458.169, \"end\": 458.689, \"score\": 0.854}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"聘\", \"start\": 458.689, \"end\": 458.87, \"score\": 0.883}, {\"word\": \"用\", \"start\": 458.87, \"end\": 459.91, \"score\": 0.952}, {\"word\": \"規\"}, {\"word\": \"劃\"}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 459.91, \"end\": 460.471, \"score\": 0.86}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"還\"}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 460.471, \"end\": 461.031, \"score\": 0.958}, {\"word\": \"評\"}, {\"word\": \"估\", \"start\": 461.031, 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{\"word\": \"起\", \"start\": 473.823, \"end\": 474.383, \"score\": 0.9}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"協\"}, {\"word\": \"助\", \"start\": 474.383, \"end\": 475.344, \"score\": 0.884}, {\"word\": \"矯\"}, {\"word\": \"正\", \"start\": 475.344, \"end\": 475.544, \"score\": 0.904}, {\"word\": \"署\", \"start\": 475.544, \"end\": 475.945, \"score\": 0.844}, {\"word\": \"大\", \"start\": 475.945, \"end\": 476.805, \"score\": 0.769}, {\"word\": \"概\", \"start\": 476.805, \"end\": 477.046, \"score\": 0.825}, {\"word\": \"7\"}, {\"word\": \"月\", \"start\": 477.046, \"end\": 477.586, \"score\": 0.93}, {\"word\": \"3\"}, {\"word\": \"號\"}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"開\"}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"用\", \"start\": 477.586, \"end\": 477.866, \"score\": 0.978}, {\"word\": \"正\", \"start\": 477.866, \"end\": 478.066, \"score\": 0.917}, {\"word\": \"向\", \"start\": 478.066, \"end\": 478.227, \"score\": 0.855}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 478.227, \"end\": 478.387, \"score\": 0.977}, {\"word\": \"角\", \"start\": 478.387, \"end\": 478.607, \"score\": 0.856}, {\"word\": \"度\", \"start\": 478.607, \"end\": 478.827, \"score\": 0.934}, {\"word\": \"跟\", \"start\": 478.827, \"end\": 478.927, \"score\": 0.88}, {\"word\": \"他\", \"start\": 478.927, \"end\": 479.107, \"score\": 0.766}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 479.107, \"end\": 479.167, \"score\": 0.381}, {\"word\": \"起\", \"start\": 479.167, \"end\": 479.308, \"score\": 0.844}, {\"word\": \"合\", \"start\": 479.308, \"end\": 479.508, \"score\": 0.903}, {\"word\": \"作\", \"start\": 479.508, \"end\": 479.608, \"score\": 0.992}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"積\"}, {\"word\": \"極\"}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"解\", \"start\": 479.608, \"end\": 479.628, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"決\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}]}, {\"start\": 482.871, \"end\": 502.088, \"text\": \"另外就是上次我們去考察的時候 關護所有現場工作人員反映諮商輔導的空間不足 僅用OA的隔間不利於輔導工作進行 這不是個案因為我在前兩年看民團參訪的報告當中就已經有提到這個問題所以我想問一下周署長 有沒有任何改善方案\", \"words\": 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568.05, \"score\": 0.902}, {\"word\": \"說\"}, {\"word\": \"請\"}, {\"word\": \"你\", \"start\": 568.05, \"end\": 568.93, \"score\": 0.974}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"能\", \"start\": 568.93, \"end\": 569.07, \"score\": 0.99}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 569.07, \"end\": 569.11, \"score\": 0.468}, {\"word\": \"能\", \"start\": 569.11, \"end\": 569.51, \"score\": 0.996}, {\"word\": \"針\"}, {\"word\": \"對\"}, {\"word\": \"於\", \"start\": 569.51, \"end\": 569.971, \"score\": 0.906}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 569.971, \"end\": 570.371, \"score\": 0.914}, {\"word\": \"主\", \"start\": 570.371, \"end\": 570.791, \"score\": 0.911}, {\"word\": \"則\"}, {\"word\": \"多\", \"start\": 570.791, \"end\": 571.451, \"score\": 0.969}, {\"word\": \"協\"}, {\"word\": \"力\", \"start\": 571.451, \"end\": 571.771, \"score\": 0.892}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 571.771, \"end\": 572.591, \"score\": 0.941}, {\"word\": \"塊\"}, {\"word\": \"也\", \"start\": 572.591, \"end\": 572.711, \"score\": 0.972}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 572.711, \"end\": 572.872, \"score\": 0.852}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 572.872, \"end\": 573.072, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"所\", \"start\": 573.072, \"end\": 573.332, \"score\": 0.862}, {\"word\": \"謂\"}, {\"word\": \"公\", \"start\": 573.332, \"end\": 573.452, \"score\": 0.832}, {\"word\": \"安\", \"start\": 573.452, \"end\": 573.632, \"score\": 0.67}, {\"word\": \"合\", \"start\": 573.632, \"end\": 573.812, \"score\": 0.986}, {\"word\": \"作\", \"start\": 573.812, \"end\": 573.992, \"score\": 0.978}, {\"word\": \"到\", \"start\": 573.992, \"end\": 574.172, \"score\": 0.887}, {\"word\": \"底\", \"start\": 574.172, \"end\": 574.292, \"score\": 0.977}, {\"word\": \"怎\", \"start\": 574.292, \"end\": 574.592, \"score\": 0.928}, {\"word\": \"麼\"}, {\"word\": \"去\", \"start\": 574.592, \"end\": 575.172, \"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"走\", \"start\": 575.172, \"end\": 575.753, \"score\": 0.927}, {\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 575.753, \"end\": 576.093, \"score\": 0.937}, {\"word\": \"可\", \"start\": 576.093, \"end\": 576.273, \"score\": 0.954}, {\"word\": \"能\", \"start\": 576.273, \"end\": 576.553, \"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"要\", \"start\": 576.553, \"end\": 576.773, \"score\": 0.92}, {\"word\": \"把\", \"start\": 576.773, \"end\": 576.793, \"score\": 0.78}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 577.073, \"end\": 577.093, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"員\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:11,998 --> 00:00:18,869\n主席因為我要有四位首長上來我先依序請警政署的張署長馬英江署長\n\n2\n00:00:24,195 --> 00:00:49,591\n等一下後邊再麻煩我們的衛福部次長跟矯正署署長跟我們的國教署的署長等一下後邊再麻煩大家上來那首先先署長早委員好因為今天這個題目事實上是很大了也感謝昭偉能夠關心司法少年的問題我想針對各個部會我都有些問題想要問希望可以獲得改善那時間不多我就直接講重點\n\n3\n00:00:51,824 --> 00:01:16,402\n首先邵府會的問題我想大家都很關心剛剛前面莊瑞雄委員也在問在邵司法修正之後行政先行的重點就是讓邵府會發揮它的功能那依據18條的規定邵府會的輔導責任非常的大事情也很多可是我聽到基層社工反映實務現場缺人又缺資源又自我限縮權責導致裡外不是人以外又不討好\n\n4\n00:01:18,323 --> 00:01:31,979\n那今年相較於去年的整個開案數看起來成長不少大概有double的量那問題來了今年的專案報告跟過去你們回覆我的一樣雖然都說人力沒有不足的狀況像今天報告你們還講說\n\n5\n00:01:33,940 --> 00:02:01,193\n現有人力事實上是充足的可是剛剛署長在剛才雙瑞雄委員在質詢的時候你是說不足啊可是你報告是寫說人力是充足的所以就不太理解就開案數事實上是兩倍那你的人力又沒有增加難道主管機關都沒有覺察到這個事實上是現場的問題嗎所以署長這部分你到底有沒有充分掌握因為你報告跟你剛剛現場在講的又不太一樣所以針對人力運用跟開案的輔導的情形是什麼\n\n6\n00:02:01,809 --> 00:02:17,146\n委員我剛的意思就是說因為全國現在的數目是大概兩百六十幾人那現在就是每個人的開案的這個量大概十個案子左右那有的縣市政府的稍微的編制是懸殊的\n\n7\n00:02:18,367 --> 00:02:40,259\n那大部分的部分大概目前運作上都還可以有一些就是比方有的縣市政府大概只有幾個人而已這個部分可能要再去做調整那這個你目前全國看起來大概是台北市政府的警察局的組織現在目前台北市市長他自己給經費其他的縣市都用社安網的錢其他用社安網大概\n\n8\n00:02:43,680 --> 00:03:04,131\n就是全國部分市場補助大概一億左右啦各縣市政府的稍微這樣狀況那我個人覺得就是說像這一些如果說這一些這個暴險的少年是這樣的一個增加那對於少府會的組織的一個人數是不是足以去做\n\n9\n00:03:05,137 --> 00:03:30,114\n負荷或者是未來這些的人數的開案人數我覺得這個可以減少的空間你預計聘任的人都已經還沒辦法完全聘任因為現在各行業都到處缺工更何況現在我說你案量增加結果你人數上也沒有去做考慮這個部分可能要到時候反請你們給我們報告因為為什麼因為我覺得這樣子人力不足的話基本上是沒有辦法解決問題\n\n10\n00:03:31,215 --> 00:03:57,357\n那再來請我們的所長這邊有看到嗎請求支援或公案這張圖事實上是偏差行為的輔導流程裡頭大概都有很多各權責單位的接案跟轉介流程可是那個請求支援或公案合作的這文字寫起來很輕鬆可是實際執行起來我覺得是不是有各自退縮這就是我們實務場看到的現象所以我想說問一下署長\n\n11\n00:03:58,098 --> 00:04:20,454\n有質疑嗎什麼叫做請求資源或公安合作什麼叫公安合作公安合作應該就是說對於這個輔導的這個層面可能牽涉到有這個社政單位有學校單位有少府單位要把他們的資料去做整合\n\n12\n00:04:20,794 --> 00:04:41,289\n那我找你你又回應我然後呢到底誰才是要主要去主責的一個單位那我想這個有一些就是看誰接的案去做聯絡人應該是做一個主責聯絡人那個人那那個人是誰好我接下來請衛福部的那個次長所以一樣同樣的我想問次長\n\n13\n00:04:42,730 --> 00:05:00,715\n這個資源跟公安因為社工很喜歡會講公安那這公安合作實際執行那我覺得因為社安網是衛福部在主責的那也想問你們有什麼參考或指引嗎否則誰來邀請來公安那我認為你做你認為我做結果最後大家都沒有做\n\n14\n00:05:02,062 --> 00:05:29,543\n那我不知道你有沒有這樣的一個參考之意報告委員我非常感謝委員對於這個部分的一個關心那其實我跟您回報委員三個重點第一個就是說我們在社交網裡面其實少府會這邊主要就是那個主軸式嘛就是策略式的部分那這個部分也非常感謝警政署跟我們這邊我們是密切合作那我知道現在目前委員剛剛現在目前有說到一個就是說有一些需要公案的一些指引跟標準那我跟委員報告到底有沒有衛福部用\n\n15\n00:05:30,143 --> 00:05:51,898\n今天社安網是你們這邊因為我已經實在聽到太多民間團體在抱怨請求資源或公安合作根本就是口號為什麼要嘛就是我們的逆境社工認為自己有權無責就是有責無權心有餘力不足要嘛就是司法系統的調保官在執行業務的時候就認為說社政社工他的法定\n\n16\n00:05:52,979 --> 00:06:09,638\n服務的時候遇到司法社工他就說這不屬於我的那就司法社工去做或者事實上是有時候我們看到就是教育單位就會瘋狂的反應說學校現場沒有輔導人力可以應對這些特殊的少年所以最後的結果就是看起來很多人做就最後呢都資訊\n\n17\n00:06:13,848 --> 00:06:35,073\n資訊的界階不完整不及時又不對等各自輔導的功能退縮犧牲的就是少年跟家庭的權益所以這部分如果是安網事實上是衛福部主責的我剛看莊瑞雄委員也特別去提到能不能這部分麻煩我們次長這邊就衛福部能夠主責協調各部會大家好好的坐下來談因為畢竟\n\n18\n00:06:37,273 --> 00:07:04,373\n這個字眼上一組折多協力這也是社安網的一個概念是不是可以去討論這種分工機制最好能夠寫出來我們的參考指引有沒有辦法我想誠如委員剛剛所說我們在整個社安網的規劃裡面確實就是一組折多協力那麼這裡面我們現在目前在我們現在也準備要進入到2.0那我在這邊有責成就是說要協調您剛剛所說的教育警政司法\n\n19\n00:07:04,753 --> 00:07:33,255\n社政這邊其實最重要的應該是informationsystem整個那個資訊系統然後讓他們整個相關的這一個單位他們都能夠把那個情況都能夠透過這個整個資訊系統彼此之間可以互相可以互相銜接那至於委員剛剛所說的麻煩衛福部這邊來做主導最後我想問那個矯正署長周署長這邊關於學生助理員的問題上次質詢後的書面報告有提及到會在相關會議中討論目前進度是什麼\n\n20\n00:07:37,068 --> 00:07:59,628\n隨身住院這個聘用規劃我們還在評估當中還在評估當中那接下來我請彭署長那上次我在諮詢的時候也跟教育部說那你們整個的評估結果是什麼教育部我們會一起來協助矯正署大概7月3號會開會用正向的角度跟他們一起合作會積極來解決謝謝\n\n21\n00:08:02,871 --> 00:08:22,088\n另外就是上次我們去考察的時候關護所有現場工作人員反映諮商輔導的空間不足僅用OA的隔間不利於輔導工作進行這不是個案因為我在前兩年看民團參訪的報告當中就已經有提到這個問題所以我想問一下周署長有沒有任何改善方案\n\n22\n00:08:24,572 --> 00:08:50,843\n我知道委員很重視這個相關逆境社工的空間跟時段的問題我們現在有提供輔導中心還有專設的接見窗口可以讓這些社工甚至於他的家長來做面會那這個不會納入他的親友的接見次數\n\n23\n00:08:51,997 --> 00:09:16,306\n那逆境社工我們會用公務接見來辦理那也不會佔用他的不過我覺得空間環境還是要去考量所以我們有提供輔導中心還有專用的接見窗口如果窗口之間也要做一個嚴密的隔離不要互相干擾這個部分我們都有發函給四所橋校\n\n24\n00:09:16,926 --> 00:09:36,793\n好那最後就是請警政署檢討各地的我們邵府會的人力的運用跟經費便利的執行狀況再麻煩兩周內給我那會不會我剛剛有提過就是說請你們能不能針對於一主則多協力這一塊也就是所謂公安合作到底怎麼去走那可能要把\n\n25\n00:09:37,073 --> 00:09:37,093\n謝謝委員\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n11998\t18869\t主席 因為我要有四位首長上來我先依序 請警政署的張署長馬英江署長\n24195\t49591\t等一下後邊再麻煩我們的衛福部次長跟矯正署署長跟我們的國教署的署長等一下後邊再麻煩大家上來那首先先 署長早 委員好因為今天這個題目事實上是很大了也感謝昭偉能夠關心司法少年的問題我想針對各個部會我都有些問題想要問希望可以獲得改善那時間不多我就直接講重點\n51824\t76402\t首先邵府會的問題我想大家都很關心剛剛前面莊瑞雄委員也在問在邵司法修正之後行政先行的重點就是讓邵府會發揮它的功能那依據18條的規定邵府會的輔導責任非常的大事情也很多可是我聽到基層社工反映實務現場缺人又缺資源又自我限縮權責導致裡外不是人以外又不討好\n78323\t91979\t那今年相較於去年的整個開案數看起來成長不少大概有double的量那問題來了今年的專案報告跟過去你們回覆我的一樣雖然都說人力沒有不足的狀況像今天報告你們還講說\n93940\t121193\t現有人力事實上是充足的可是剛剛 署長在 剛才雙瑞雄委員在質詢的時候你是說不足啊 可是你報告是寫說人力是充足的所以就不太理解 就開案數事實上是兩倍那你的人力又沒有增加難道主管機關都沒有覺察到這個事實上是現場的問題嗎所以署長這部分你到底有沒有充分掌握因為你報告跟你剛剛現場在講的又不太一樣所以針對人力運用跟開案的輔導的情形是什麼\n121809\t137146\t委員我剛的意思就是說因為全國現在的數目是大概兩百六十幾人那現在就是每個人的開案的這個量大概十個案子左右那有的縣市政府的稍微的編制是懸殊的\n138367\t160259\t那大部分的部分大概目前運作上都還可以有一些就是比方有的縣市政府大概只有幾個人而已這個部分可能要再去做調整那這個你目前全國看起來大概是台北市政府的警察局的組織現在目前台北市市長他自己給經費其他的縣市都用社安網的錢其他用社安網大概\n163680\t184131\t就是全國部分市場補助大概一億左右啦 各縣市政府的稍微這樣狀況那我個人覺得就是說像這一些 如果說這一些這個暴險的少年是這樣的一個增加那對於少府會的組織的一個人數是不是足以去做\n185137\t210114\t負荷或者是未來這些的人數的開案人數我覺得這個可以減少的空間你預計聘任的人都已經還沒辦法完全聘任因為現在各行業都到處缺工更何況現在我說你案量增加結果你人數上也沒有去做考慮這個部分可能要到時候反請你們給我們報告因為為什麼 因為我覺得這樣子人力不足的話基本上是沒有辦法解決問題\n211215\t237357\t那再來請我們的 所長這邊有看到嗎 請求支援或公案這張圖事實上是偏差行為的輔導流程裡頭大概都有很多各權責單位的接案跟轉介流程可是那個請求支援或公案合作的這文字寫起來很輕鬆 可是實際執行起來我覺得是不是有各自退縮這就是我們實務場看到的現象所以我想說問一下署長\n238098\t260454\t有質疑嗎 什麼叫做請求資源或公安合作 什麼叫公安合作公安合作應該就是說對於這個輔導的這個層面可能牽涉到有這個社政單位有學校單位 有少府單位 要把他們的資料去做整合\n260794\t281289\t那我找你你又回應我然後呢到底誰才是要主要去主責的一個單位那我想這個有一些就是看誰接的案去做聯絡人應該是做一個主責聯絡人那個人那那個人是誰好我接下來請衛福部的那個次長所以一樣同樣的我想問次長\n282730\t300715\t這個資源跟公安因為社工很喜歡會講公安那這公安合作實際執行那我覺得因為社安網是衛福部在主責的那也想問你們有什麼參考或指引嗎否則誰來邀請來公安那我認為你做你認為我做結果最後大家都沒有做\n302062\t329543\t那我不知道你有沒有這樣的一個參考之意報告委員 我非常感謝委員對於這個部分的一個關心那其實我跟您回報委員三個重點第一個就是說我們在社交網裡面其實少府會這邊主要就是那個主軸式嘛就是策略式的部分那這個部分也非常感謝警政署跟我們這邊我們是密切合作那我知道現在目前委員剛剛現在目前有說到一個就是說有一些需要公案的一些指引跟標準那我跟委員報告到底有沒有衛福部用\n330143\t351898\t今天社安網是你們這邊因為我已經實在聽到太多民間團體在抱怨請求資源或公安合作根本就是口號為什麼要嘛就是我們的逆境社工認為自己有權無責就是有責無權 心有餘力不足要嘛就是司法系統的調保官在執行業務的時候就認為說社政社工他的法定\n352979\t369638\t服務的時候遇到司法社工他就說這不屬於我的那就司法社工去做或者事實上是有時候我們看到就是教育單位就會瘋狂的反應說學校現場沒有輔導人力可以應對這些特殊的少年所以最後的結果就是看起來很多人做就最後呢都資訊\n373848\t395073\t資訊的界階不完整不及時又不對等各自輔導的功能退縮犧牲的就是少年跟家庭的權益所以這部分如果是安網事實上是衛福部主責的我剛看莊瑞雄委員也特別去提到能不能這部分麻煩我們次長這邊就衛福部能夠主責協調各部會大家好好的坐下來談因為畢竟\n397273\t424373\t這個字眼上一組折多協力這也是社安網的一個概念是不是可以去討論這種分工機制最好能夠寫出來我們的參考指引有沒有辦法我想誠如委員剛剛所說我們在整個社安網的規劃裡面確實就是一組折多協力那麼這裡面我們現在目前在我們現在也準備要進入到2.0那我在這邊有責成就是說要協調您剛剛所說的教育警政司法\n424753\t453255\t社政這邊其實最重要的應該是information system整個那個資訊系統然後讓他們整個相關的這一個單位他們都能夠把那個情況都能夠透過這個整個資訊系統彼此之間可以互相可以互相銜接那至於委員剛剛所說的麻煩衛福部這邊來做主導最後我想問那個矯正署長周署長這邊關於學生助理員的問題上次質詢後的書面報告有提及到會在相關會議中討論目前進度是什麼\n457068\t479628\t隨身住院這個聘用規劃我們還在評估當中還在評估當中那接下來我請彭署長那上次我在諮詢的時候也跟教育部說那你們整個的評估結果是什麼教育部我們會一起來協助矯正署大概7月3號會開會用正向的角度跟他們一起合作會積極來解決 謝謝\n482871\t502088\t另外就是上次我們去考察的時候 關護所有現場工作人員反映諮商輔導的空間不足 僅用OA的隔間不利於輔導工作進行 這不是個案因為我在前兩年看民團參訪的報告當中就已經有提到這個問題所以我想問一下周署長 有沒有任何改善方案\n504572\t530843\t我知道委員很重視這個相關逆境社工的空間跟時段的問題我們現在有提供輔導中心還有專設的接見窗口可以讓這些社工甚至於他的家長來做面會那這個不會納入他的親友的接見次數\n531997\t556306\t那逆境社工我們會用公務接見來辦理那也不會佔用他的不過我覺得空間環境還是要去考量所以我們有提供輔導中心還有專用的接見窗口如果窗口之間也要做一個嚴密的隔離不要互相干擾這個部分我們都有發函給四所橋校\n556926\t576793\t好那最後就是請警政署檢討各地的我們邵府會的人力的運用跟經費便利的執行狀況再麻煩兩周內給我那會不會我剛剛有提過就是說請你們能不能針對於一主則多協力這一塊也就是所謂公安合作到底怎麼去走那可能要把\n577073\t577093\t謝謝委員\n","txt":"主席 因為我要有四位首長上來我先依序 請警政署的張署長馬英江署長\n等一下後邊再麻煩我們的衛福部次長跟矯正署署長跟我們的國教署的署長等一下後邊再麻煩大家上來那首先先 署長早 委員好因為今天這個題目事實上是很大了也感謝昭偉能夠關心司法少年的問題我想針對各個部會我都有些問題想要問希望可以獲得改善那時間不多我就直接講重點\n首先邵府會的問題我想大家都很關心剛剛前面莊瑞雄委員也在問在邵司法修正之後行政先行的重點就是讓邵府會發揮它的功能那依據18條的規定邵府會的輔導責任非常的大事情也很多可是我聽到基層社工反映實務現場缺人又缺資源又自我限縮權責導致裡外不是人以外又不討好\n那今年相較於去年的整個開案數看起來成長不少大概有double的量那問題來了今年的專案報告跟過去你們回覆我的一樣雖然都說人力沒有不足的狀況像今天報告你們還講說\n現有人力事實上是充足的可是剛剛 署長在 剛才雙瑞雄委員在質詢的時候你是說不足啊 可是你報告是寫說人力是充足的所以就不太理解 就開案數事實上是兩倍那你的人力又沒有增加難道主管機關都沒有覺察到這個事實上是現場的問題嗎所以署長這部分你到底有沒有充分掌握因為你報告跟你剛剛現場在講的又不太一樣所以針對人力運用跟開案的輔導的情形是什麼\n委員我剛的意思就是說因為全國現在的數目是大概兩百六十幾人那現在就是每個人的開案的這個量大概十個案子左右那有的縣市政府的稍微的編制是懸殊的\n那大部分的部分大概目前運作上都還可以有一些就是比方有的縣市政府大概只有幾個人而已這個部分可能要再去做調整那這個你目前全國看起來大概是台北市政府的警察局的組織現在目前台北市市長他自己給經費其他的縣市都用社安網的錢其他用社安網大概\n就是全國部分市場補助大概一億左右啦 各縣市政府的稍微這樣狀況那我個人覺得就是說像這一些 如果說這一些這個暴險的少年是這樣的一個增加那對於少府會的組織的一個人數是不是足以去做\n負荷或者是未來這些的人數的開案人數我覺得這個可以減少的空間你預計聘任的人都已經還沒辦法完全聘任因為現在各行業都到處缺工更何況現在我說你案量增加結果你人數上也沒有去做考慮這個部分可能要到時候反請你們給我們報告因為為什麼 因為我覺得這樣子人力不足的話基本上是沒有辦法解決問題\n那再來請我們的 所長這邊有看到嗎 請求支援或公案這張圖事實上是偏差行為的輔導流程裡頭大概都有很多各權責單位的接案跟轉介流程可是那個請求支援或公案合作的這文字寫起來很輕鬆 可是實際執行起來我覺得是不是有各自退縮這就是我們實務場看到的現象所以我想說問一下署長\n有質疑嗎 什麼叫做請求資源或公安合作 什麼叫公安合作公安合作應該就是說對於這個輔導的這個層面可能牽涉到有這個社政單位有學校單位 有少府單位 要把他們的資料去做整合\n那我找你你又回應我然後呢到底誰才是要主要去主責的一個單位那我想這個有一些就是看誰接的案去做聯絡人應該是做一個主責聯絡人那個人那那個人是誰好我接下來請衛福部的那個次長所以一樣同樣的我想問次長\n這個資源跟公安因為社工很喜歡會講公安那這公安合作實際執行那我覺得因為社安網是衛福部在主責的那也想問你們有什麼參考或指引嗎否則誰來邀請來公安那我認為你做你認為我做結果最後大家都沒有做\n那我不知道你有沒有這樣的一個參考之意報告委員 我非常感謝委員對於這個部分的一個關心那其實我跟您回報委員三個重點第一個就是說我們在社交網裡面其實少府會這邊主要就是那個主軸式嘛就是策略式的部分那這個部分也非常感謝警政署跟我們這邊我們是密切合作那我知道現在目前委員剛剛現在目前有說到一個就是說有一些需要公案的一些指引跟標準那我跟委員報告到底有沒有衛福部用\n今天社安網是你們這邊因為我已經實在聽到太多民間團體在抱怨請求資源或公安合作根本就是口號為什麼要嘛就是我們的逆境社工認為自己有權無責就是有責無權 心有餘力不足要嘛就是司法系統的調保官在執行業務的時候就認為說社政社工他的法定\n服務的時候遇到司法社工他就說這不屬於我的那就司法社工去做或者事實上是有時候我們看到就是教育單位就會瘋狂的反應說學校現場沒有輔導人力可以應對這些特殊的少年所以最後的結果就是看起來很多人做就最後呢都資訊\n資訊的界階不完整不及時又不對等各自輔導的功能退縮犧牲的就是少年跟家庭的權益所以這部分如果是安網事實上是衛福部主責的我剛看莊瑞雄委員也特別去提到能不能這部分麻煩我們次長這邊就衛福部能夠主責協調各部會大家好好的坐下來談因為畢竟\n這個字眼上一組折多協力這也是社安網的一個概念是不是可以去討論這種分工機制最好能夠寫出來我們的參考指引有沒有辦法我想誠如委員剛剛所說我們在整個社安網的規劃裡面確實就是一組折多協力那麼這裡面我們現在目前在我們現在也準備要進入到2.0那我在這邊有責成就是說要協調您剛剛所說的教育警政司法\n社政這邊其實最重要的應該是information system整個那個資訊系統然後讓他們整個相關的這一個單位他們都能夠把那個情況都能夠透過這個整個資訊系統彼此之間可以互相可以互相銜接那至於委員剛剛所說的麻煩衛福部這邊來做主導最後我想問那個矯正署長周署長這邊關於學生助理員的問題上次質詢後的書面報告有提及到會在相關會議中討論目前進度是什麼\n隨身住院這個聘用規劃我們還在評估當中還在評估當中那接下來我請彭署長那上次我在諮詢的時候也跟教育部說那你們整個的評估結果是什麼教育部我們會一起來協助矯正署大概7月3號會開會用正向的角度跟他們一起合作會積極來解決 謝謝\n另外就是上次我們去考察的時候 關護所有現場工作人員反映諮商輔導的空間不足 僅用OA的隔間不利於輔導工作進行 這不是個案因為我在前兩年看民團參訪的報告當中就已經有提到這個問題所以我想問一下周署長 有沒有任何改善方案\n我知道委員很重視這個相關逆境社工的空間跟時段的問題我們現在有提供輔導中心還有專設的接見窗口可以讓這些社工甚至於他的家長來做面會那這個不會納入他的親友的接見次數\n那逆境社工我們會用公務接見來辦理那也不會佔用他的不過我覺得空間環境還是要去考量所以我們有提供輔導中心還有專用的接見窗口如果窗口之間也要做一個嚴密的隔離不要互相干擾這個部分我們都有發函給四所橋校\n好那最後就是請警政署檢討各地的我們邵府會的人力的運用跟經費便利的執行狀況再麻煩兩周內給我那會不會我剛剛有提過就是說請你們能不能針對於一主則多協力這一塊也就是所謂公安合作到底怎麼去走那可能要把\n謝謝委員\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:11.998 --> 00:18.869\n主席因為我要有四位首長上來我先依序請警政署的張署長馬英江署長\n\n00:24.195 --> 00:49.591\n等一下後邊再麻煩我們的衛福部次長跟矯正署署長跟我們的國教署的署長等一下後邊再麻煩大家上來那首先先署長早委員好因為今天這個題目事實上是很大了也感謝昭偉能夠關心司法少年的問題我想針對各個部會我都有些問題想要問希望可以獲得改善那時間不多我就直接講重點\n\n00:51.824 --> 01:16.402\n首先邵府會的問題我想大家都很關心剛剛前面莊瑞雄委員也在問在邵司法修正之後行政先行的重點就是讓邵府會發揮它的功能那依據18條的規定邵府會的輔導責任非常的大事情也很多可是我聽到基層社工反映實務現場缺人又缺資源又自我限縮權責導致裡外不是人以外又不討好\n\n01:18.323 --> 01:31.979\n那今年相較於去年的整個開案數看起來成長不少大概有double的量那問題來了今年的專案報告跟過去你們回覆我的一樣雖然都說人力沒有不足的狀況像今天報告你們還講說\n\n01:33.940 --> 02:01.193\n現有人力事實上是充足的可是剛剛署長在剛才雙瑞雄委員在質詢的時候你是說不足啊可是你報告是寫說人力是充足的所以就不太理解就開案數事實上是兩倍那你的人力又沒有增加難道主管機關都沒有覺察到這個事實上是現場的問題嗎所以署長這部分你到底有沒有充分掌握因為你報告跟你剛剛現場在講的又不太一樣所以針對人力運用跟開案的輔導的情形是什麼\n\n02:01.809 --> 02:17.146\n委員我剛的意思就是說因為全國現在的數目是大概兩百六十幾人那現在就是每個人的開案的這個量大概十個案子左右那有的縣市政府的稍微的編制是懸殊的\n\n02:18.367 --> 02:40.259\n那大部分的部分大概目前運作上都還可以有一些就是比方有的縣市政府大概只有幾個人而已這個部分可能要再去做調整那這個你目前全國看起來大概是台北市政府的警察局的組織現在目前台北市市長他自己給經費其他的縣市都用社安網的錢其他用社安網大概\n\n02:43.680 --> 03:04.131\n就是全國部分市場補助大概一億左右啦各縣市政府的稍微這樣狀況那我個人覺得就是說像這一些如果說這一些這個暴險的少年是這樣的一個增加那對於少府會的組織的一個人數是不是足以去做\n\n03:05.137 --> 03:30.114\n負荷或者是未來這些的人數的開案人數我覺得這個可以減少的空間你預計聘任的人都已經還沒辦法完全聘任因為現在各行業都到處缺工更何況現在我說你案量增加結果你人數上也沒有去做考慮這個部分可能要到時候反請你們給我們報告因為為什麼因為我覺得這樣子人力不足的話基本上是沒有辦法解決問題\n\n03:31.215 --> 03:57.357\n那再來請我們的所長這邊有看到嗎請求支援或公案這張圖事實上是偏差行為的輔導流程裡頭大概都有很多各權責單位的接案跟轉介流程可是那個請求支援或公案合作的這文字寫起來很輕鬆可是實際執行起來我覺得是不是有各自退縮這就是我們實務場看到的現象所以我想說問一下署長\n\n03:58.098 --> 04:20.454\n有質疑嗎什麼叫做請求資源或公安合作什麼叫公安合作公安合作應該就是說對於這個輔導的這個層面可能牽涉到有這個社政單位有學校單位有少府單位要把他們的資料去做整合\n\n04:20.794 --> 04:41.289\n那我找你你又回應我然後呢到底誰才是要主要去主責的一個單位那我想這個有一些就是看誰接的案去做聯絡人應該是做一個主責聯絡人那個人那那個人是誰好我接下來請衛福部的那個次長所以一樣同樣的我想問次長\n\n04:42.730 --> 05:00.715\n這個資源跟公安因為社工很喜歡會講公安那這公安合作實際執行那我覺得因為社安網是衛福部在主責的那也想問你們有什麼參考或指引嗎否則誰來邀請來公安那我認為你做你認為我做結果最後大家都沒有做\n\n05:02.062 --> 05:29.543\n那我不知道你有沒有這樣的一個參考之意報告委員我非常感謝委員對於這個部分的一個關心那其實我跟您回報委員三個重點第一個就是說我們在社交網裡面其實少府會這邊主要就是那個主軸式嘛就是策略式的部分那這個部分也非常感謝警政署跟我們這邊我們是密切合作那我知道現在目前委員剛剛現在目前有說到一個就是說有一些需要公案的一些指引跟標準那我跟委員報告到底有沒有衛福部用\n\n05:30.143 --> 05:51.898\n今天社安網是你們這邊因為我已經實在聽到太多民間團體在抱怨請求資源或公安合作根本就是口號為什麼要嘛就是我們的逆境社工認為自己有權無責就是有責無權心有餘力不足要嘛就是司法系統的調保官在執行業務的時候就認為說社政社工他的法定\n\n05:52.979 --> 06:09.638\n服務的時候遇到司法社工他就說這不屬於我的那就司法社工去做或者事實上是有時候我們看到就是教育單位就會瘋狂的反應說學校現場沒有輔導人力可以應對這些特殊的少年所以最後的結果就是看起來很多人做就最後呢都資訊\n\n06:13.848 --> 06:35.073\n資訊的界階不完整不及時又不對等各自輔導的功能退縮犧牲的就是少年跟家庭的權益所以這部分如果是安網事實上是衛福部主責的我剛看莊瑞雄委員也特別去提到能不能這部分麻煩我們次長這邊就衛福部能夠主責協調各部會大家好好的坐下來談因為畢竟\n\n06:37.273 --> 07:04.373\n這個字眼上一組折多協力這也是社安網的一個概念是不是可以去討論這種分工機制最好能夠寫出來我們的參考指引有沒有辦法我想誠如委員剛剛所說我們在整個社安網的規劃裡面確實就是一組折多協力那麼這裡面我們現在目前在我們現在也準備要進入到2.0那我在這邊有責成就是說要協調您剛剛所說的教育警政司法\n\n07:04.753 --> 07:33.255\n社政這邊其實最重要的應該是informationsystem整個那個資訊系統然後讓他們整個相關的這一個單位他們都能夠把那個情況都能夠透過這個整個資訊系統彼此之間可以互相可以互相銜接那至於委員剛剛所說的麻煩衛福部這邊來做主導最後我想問那個矯正署長周署長這邊關於學生助理員的問題上次質詢後的書面報告有提及到會在相關會議中討論目前進度是什麼\n\n07:37.068 --> 07:59.628\n隨身住院這個聘用規劃我們還在評估當中還在評估當中那接下來我請彭署長那上次我在諮詢的時候也跟教育部說那你們整個的評估結果是什麼教育部我們會一起來協助矯正署大概7月3號會開會用正向的角度跟他們一起合作會積極來解決謝謝\n\n08:02.871 --> 08:22.088\n另外就是上次我們去考察的時候關護所有現場工作人員反映諮商輔導的空間不足僅用OA的隔間不利於輔導工作進行這不是個案因為我在前兩年看民團參訪的報告當中就已經有提到這個問題所以我想問一下周署長有沒有任何改善方案\n\n08:24.572 --> 08:50.843\n我知道委員很重視這個相關逆境社工的空間跟時段的問題我們現在有提供輔導中心還有專設的接見窗口可以讓這些社工甚至於他的家長來做面會那這個不會納入他的親友的接見次數\n\n08:51.997 --> 09:16.306\n那逆境社工我們會用公務接見來辦理那也不會佔用他的不過我覺得空間環境還是要去考量所以我們有提供輔導中心還有專用的接見窗口如果窗口之間也要做一個嚴密的隔離不要互相干擾這個部分我們都有發函給四所橋校\n\n09:16.926 --> 09:36.793\n好那最後就是請警政署檢討各地的我們邵府會的人力的運用跟經費便利的執行狀況再麻煩兩周內給我那會不會我剛剛有提過就是說請你們能不能針對於一主則多協力這一塊也就是所謂公安合作到底怎麼去走那可能要把\n\n09:37.073 --> 09:37.093\n謝謝委員\n\n","segments":[{"start":11.998,"end":18.869,"text":"主席 因為我要有四位首長上來我先依序 請警政署的張署長馬英江署長"},{"start":24.195,"end":49.591,"text":"等一下後邊再麻煩我們的衛福部次長跟矯正署署長跟我們的國教署的署長等一下後邊再麻煩大家上來那首先先 署長早 委員好因為今天這個題目事實上是很大了也感謝昭偉能夠關心司法少年的問題我想針對各個部會我都有些問題想要問希望可以獲得改善那時間不多我就直接講重點"},{"start":51.824,"end":76.402,"text":"首先邵府會的問題我想大家都很關心剛剛前面莊瑞雄委員也在問在邵司法修正之後行政先行的重點就是讓邵府會發揮它的功能那依據18條的規定邵府會的輔導責任非常的大事情也很多可是我聽到基層社工反映實務現場缺人又缺資源又自我限縮權責導致裡外不是人以外又不討好"},{"start":78.323,"end":91.979,"text":"那今年相較於去年的整個開案數看起來成長不少大概有double的量那問題來了今年的專案報告跟過去你們回覆我的一樣雖然都說人力沒有不足的狀況像今天報告你們還講說"},{"start":93.94,"end":121.193,"text":"現有人力事實上是充足的可是剛剛 署長在 剛才雙瑞雄委員在質詢的時候你是說不足啊 可是你報告是寫說人力是充足的所以就不太理解 就開案數事實上是兩倍那你的人力又沒有增加難道主管機關都沒有覺察到這個事實上是現場的問題嗎所以署長這部分你到底有沒有充分掌握因為你報告跟你剛剛現場在講的又不太一樣所以針對人力運用跟開案的輔導的情形是什麼"},{"start":121.809,"end":137.146,"text":"委員我剛的意思就是說因為全國現在的數目是大概兩百六十幾人那現在就是每個人的開案的這個量大概十個案子左右那有的縣市政府的稍微的編制是懸殊的"},{"start":138.367,"end":160.259,"text":"那大部分的部分大概目前運作上都還可以有一些就是比方有的縣市政府大概只有幾個人而已這個部分可能要再去做調整那這個你目前全國看起來大概是台北市政府的警察局的組織現在目前台北市市長他自己給經費其他的縣市都用社安網的錢其他用社安網大概"},{"start":163.68,"end":184.131,"text":"就是全國部分市場補助大概一億左右啦 各縣市政府的稍微這樣狀況那我個人覺得就是說像這一些 如果說這一些這個暴險的少年是這樣的一個增加那對於少府會的組織的一個人數是不是足以去做"},{"start":185.137,"end":210.114,"text":"負荷或者是未來這些的人數的開案人數我覺得這個可以減少的空間你預計聘任的人都已經還沒辦法完全聘任因為現在各行業都到處缺工更何況現在我說你案量增加結果你人數上也沒有去做考慮這個部分可能要到時候反請你們給我們報告因為為什麼 因為我覺得這樣子人力不足的話基本上是沒有辦法解決問題"},{"start":211.215,"end":237.357,"text":"那再來請我們的 所長這邊有看到嗎 請求支援或公案這張圖事實上是偏差行為的輔導流程裡頭大概都有很多各權責單位的接案跟轉介流程可是那個請求支援或公案合作的這文字寫起來很輕鬆 可是實際執行起來我覺得是不是有各自退縮這就是我們實務場看到的現象所以我想說問一下署長"},{"start":238.098,"end":260.454,"text":"有質疑嗎 什麼叫做請求資源或公安合作 什麼叫公安合作公安合作應該就是說對於這個輔導的這個層面可能牽涉到有這個社政單位有學校單位 有少府單位 要把他們的資料去做整合"},{"start":260.794,"end":281.289,"text":"那我找你你又回應我然後呢到底誰才是要主要去主責的一個單位那我想這個有一些就是看誰接的案去做聯絡人應該是做一個主責聯絡人那個人那那個人是誰好我接下來請衛福部的那個次長所以一樣同樣的我想問次長"},{"start":282.73,"end":300.715,"text":"這個資源跟公安因為社工很喜歡會講公安那這公安合作實際執行那我覺得因為社安網是衛福部在主責的那也想問你們有什麼參考或指引嗎否則誰來邀請來公安那我認為你做你認為我做結果最後大家都沒有做"},{"start":302.062,"end":329.543,"text":"那我不知道你有沒有這樣的一個參考之意報告委員 我非常感謝委員對於這個部分的一個關心那其實我跟您回報委員三個重點第一個就是說我們在社交網裡面其實少府會這邊主要就是那個主軸式嘛就是策略式的部分那這個部分也非常感謝警政署跟我們這邊我們是密切合作那我知道現在目前委員剛剛現在目前有說到一個就是說有一些需要公案的一些指引跟標準那我跟委員報告到底有沒有衛福部用"},{"start":330.143,"end":351.898,"text":"今天社安網是你們這邊因為我已經實在聽到太多民間團體在抱怨請求資源或公安合作根本就是口號為什麼要嘛就是我們的逆境社工認為自己有權無責就是有責無權 心有餘力不足要嘛就是司法系統的調保官在執行業務的時候就認為說社政社工他的法定"},{"start":352.979,"end":369.638,"text":"服務的時候遇到司法社工他就說這不屬於我的那就司法社工去做或者事實上是有時候我們看到就是教育單位就會瘋狂的反應說學校現場沒有輔導人力可以應對這些特殊的少年所以最後的結果就是看起來很多人做就最後呢都資訊"},{"start":373.848,"end":395.073,"text":"資訊的界階不完整不及時又不對等各自輔導的功能退縮犧牲的就是少年跟家庭的權益所以這部分如果是安網事實上是衛福部主責的我剛看莊瑞雄委員也特別去提到能不能這部分麻煩我們次長這邊就衛福部能夠主責協調各部會大家好好的坐下來談因為畢竟"},{"start":397.273,"end":424.373,"text":"這個字眼上一組折多協力這也是社安網的一個概念是不是可以去討論這種分工機制最好能夠寫出來我們的參考指引有沒有辦法我想誠如委員剛剛所說我們在整個社安網的規劃裡面確實就是一組折多協力那麼這裡面我們現在目前在我們現在也準備要進入到2.0那我在這邊有責成就是說要協調您剛剛所說的教育警政司法"},{"start":424.753,"end":453.255,"text":"社政這邊其實最重要的應該是information system整個那個資訊系統然後讓他們整個相關的這一個單位他們都能夠把那個情況都能夠透過這個整個資訊系統彼此之間可以互相可以互相銜接那至於委員剛剛所說的麻煩衛福部這邊來做主導最後我想問那個矯正署長周署長這邊關於學生助理員的問題上次質詢後的書面報告有提及到會在相關會議中討論目前進度是什麼"},{"start":457.068,"end":479.628,"text":"隨身住院這個聘用規劃我們還在評估當中還在評估當中那接下來我請彭署長那上次我在諮詢的時候也跟教育部說那你們整個的評估結果是什麼教育部我們會一起來協助矯正署大概7月3號會開會用正向的角度跟他們一起合作會積極來解決 謝謝"},{"start":482.871,"end":502.088,"text":"另外就是上次我們去考察的時候 關護所有現場工作人員反映諮商輔導的空間不足 僅用OA的隔間不利於輔導工作進行 這不是個案因為我在前兩年看民團參訪的報告當中就已經有提到這個問題所以我想問一下周署長 有沒有任何改善方案"},{"start":504.572,"end":530.843,"text":"我知道委員很重視這個相關逆境社工的空間跟時段的問題我們現在有提供輔導中心還有專設的接見窗口可以讓這些社工甚至於他的家長來做面會那這個不會納入他的親友的接見次數"},{"start":531.997,"end":556.306,"text":"那逆境社工我們會用公務接見來辦理那也不會佔用他的不過我覺得空間環境還是要去考量所以我們有提供輔導中心還有專用的接見窗口如果窗口之間也要做一個嚴密的隔離不要互相干擾這個部分我們都有發函給四所橋校"},{"start":556.926,"end":576.793,"text":"好那最後就是請警政署檢討各地的我們邵府會的人力的運用跟經費便利的執行狀況再麻煩兩周內給我那會不會我剛剛有提過就是說請你們能不能針對於一主則多協力這一塊也就是所謂公安合作到底怎麼去走那可能要把"},{"start":577.073,"end":577.093,"text":"謝謝委員"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":736,"blocks":[["林委員月琴：（11時31分）主席，因為我要請4位首長上來，我先依序請警政署的張署長。"],["主席：麻煩張署長。"],["林委員月琴：等一下再麻煩衛福部次長、矯正署署長跟國教署署長，後面再麻煩大家上來。首先，署長早。"],["張署長榮興：委員好。"],["林委員月琴：因為今天這個題目事實上很大，也感謝召委能夠關心司法少年的問題。針對各個部會我都有一些問題想要問，希望可以獲得改善。時間不多，我就直接講重點。","首先是少輔會的問題，我想大家都很關心，剛剛前面莊瑞雄委員也在問，在少事法修正之後，行政先行的重點就是讓少輔會發揮它的功能，依據第十八條的規定，少輔會的輔導責任非常的大，事情也很多，可是我聽到基層社工反映實務現場缺人又缺資源，又自我限縮權責，導致裡外不是人而且又不討好。","今年相較於去年，整個開案數看起來成長不少，大概有double的量，問題來了，今年的專案報告跟過去你們回復我的一樣，居然都說人力沒有不足的狀況，像今天你們的報告還說現有人力事實上是充足的，可是署長，剛才莊瑞雄委員質詢的時候你是說不足啊！可是你的報告卻說人力是充足的，所以就不太理解，開案數事實上是兩倍，你的人力又沒有增加，難道主管機關都沒有覺察到這個事實上是現場的問題嗎？所以署長對這部分到底有沒有充分掌握？因為你的報告跟你剛剛現場講的又不太一樣，所以針對人力運用跟開案輔導的情形是什麼？"],["張署長榮興：委員，我剛才的意思是，因為全國現在的數目大概是兩百六十幾人，每個人的開案量大概是10個案子左右，有的縣市政府少輔會的編制是懸殊的，大部分目前運作上大概都還可以，但有一些縣市政府大概只有幾個人而已，這個部分可能要再去調整，但目前全國看起來，大概臺北市政府警察局的組織……"],["林委員月琴：所以目前只有臺北市自己有給經費，其他縣市都用社安網的錢，相對人力事實上是不足的……"],["張署長榮興：對，有自己給經費，其他用社安網，關於全國的部分，社安網補助大概1億左右，各縣市政府的少輔會有這樣的狀況。我個人覺得，如果這一些曝險少年這樣的增加，少輔會組織的人數是不是足以負荷，或者是未來的開案人數，我覺得這個有可以檢討的空間。"],["林委員月琴：署長，你預計聘任的人都還沒辦法完全聘任，因為現在各行業都到處缺工，更何況你案量增加，結果你在人數上也沒有去考慮。這個部分可能到時候煩請你們給我們報告，為什麼呢？因為我覺得人力不足的話，基本上是沒有辦法解決問題的。","再來，署長，你有看到嗎？這張圖是偏差行為的輔導流程，裡頭都有很多各權責單位的接案跟轉介流程，「請求支援或共案合作」的文字寫起來很輕鬆，可是實際執行起來，是不是有各自退縮？這就是我們實務上常看到的現象。我想問一下署長，有指引嗎？什麼叫做「請求支援或共案合作」？什麼叫「共案合作」？"],["張署長榮興：共案合作應該就是說，對於輔導的這個層面，可能牽涉到社政單位、學校單位、少輔單位，要把他們的資料整合。"],["林委員月琴：若我找你，但你又不回應我，到底誰才是主要去引導、主責的？"],["張署長榮興：關於主責的單位，我想有一些就是看誰接的案，聯絡人應該做一個主責啦！即聯絡的那個人。"],["林委員月琴：那個人是誰？我接下來請衛福部次長，同樣的，我想問次長，關於支援跟共案，因為社工會講共案，對於共案合作的實際執行，因為社安網是衛福部在主責的，想問你們有什麼參考或指引嗎？或是誰來邀請共案？我認為你做，你認為我做，結果最後大家都沒有做。我不知道你們有沒有這樣的一個參考或指引？"],["呂次長建德：報告委員，非常感謝委員對於這個部分的關心，我回報委員三個重點，第一個，我們在社安網裡面，其實少輔會主要就是策略四的部分，這個部分也非常感謝警政署跟我們密切合作。委員剛剛有說到目前有一些需要共案的指引跟標準。我跟委員報告……"],["林委員月琴：對，到底有沒有？衛福部有嗎？因為社安網是由你們這邊主責，我已經聽到太多民間團體在抱怨，請求支援或共案合作根本就是口號，為什麼？要麼就是逆境社工認為自己有責無權，心有餘而力不足；要麼就是司法系統的調保官在執行業務時，認為社政社工在服務的時候遇到司法社工，就說這不屬於他的，就由司法社工去做，或者有時候我們看到教育單位就會瘋狂反映學校現場沒有輔導人力可以應對這些特殊的少年，所以最後的結果就是看起來很多人做，但資訊的介接不完整、不即時、不對等，各自輔導的功能退縮，犧牲的就是少年跟家庭的權益。社安網事實上是衛福部主責的……"],["呂次長建德：是，沒錯。"],["林委員月琴：我剛剛看莊瑞雄委員也特別提到……"],["呂次長建德：對。"],["林委員月琴：這部分能不能麻煩衛福部能夠主責協調各部會，大家好好坐下來談？畢竟這個字眼上，「一主責、多協力」也是社安網的一個概念……"],["呂次長建德：是，沒錯。"],["林委員月琴：是不是可以去討論這種分工機制？最好能夠寫出我們的參考、指引。有沒有辦法？"],["呂次長建德：報告委員，誠如委員剛剛所說的，我們在整個社安網的規劃裡面，確實就是一主責、多協力，那麼在這裡面，目前我們也準備要進入2.0，我在這邊有責成要協調您剛剛所說的教育、警政、司法、社政，其實最重要的應該是information system，即整個資訊系統，相關的單位都能夠把那個情況透過整個資訊系統，讓彼此之間可以互相銜接。至於委員剛剛所說的……"],["林委員月琴：麻煩衛福部來主導。"],["呂次長建德：好，謝謝委員。"],["林委員月琴：最後，我想問矯正署周署長，關於學生助理員的問題，上次質詢後的書面報告有提到會在相關會議中討論，目前的進度是什麼？"],["周署長輝煌：關於學生助理員的聘用規劃，我們還在評估當中。"],["林委員月琴：還在評估當中？接下來我請問彭署長，上次我在質詢的時候也有跟教育部說，你們整個的評估結果是什麼？"],["彭署長富源：我們會一起來協助矯正署，大概7月3號會開會，用正向的角度跟他們一起合作，會積極解決。謝謝。"],["林委員月琴：好。另外，上次我們去考察的時候，觀護所現場的工作人員反映諮商輔導空間不足，僅用OA隔間，不利於輔導工作的進行。這不是個案，因為我在前兩年看民團參訪的報告當中就已經有提到這個問題，所以我想問一下周署長，有沒有任何的改善方案？"],["周署長輝煌：報告委員，我知道委員很重視相關逆境社工的空間跟時段的問題……"],["林委員月琴：是，這上次我質詢時也質詢過。"],["周署長輝煌：是，我們現在有提供輔導中心及專設的接見窗口，可以讓這些社工甚至於他的家長來做面會，這個不會納入其親友的接見次數。至於逆境社工，我們會用公務接見辦理，也不會占用其接見次數。"],["林委員月琴：不過我覺得空間環境還是要去考量，尤其是諮商輔導，這個可能要去考慮。"],["周署長輝煌：是啊！所以我們有提供輔導中心及專用的接見窗口，窗口之間也要做嚴密的隔離，不要互相干擾……"],["林委員月琴：是，再麻煩署長這邊……"],["周署長輝煌：這個部分我們都有發函給4所矯校。"],["林委員月琴：好。最後，請警政署檢討各地少輔會的人力運用及經費編列的執行狀況，再麻煩兩週內給我。"],["張署長榮興：好。"],["林委員月琴：至於衛福部，我剛才有提過，你們能不能針對「一主責、多協力」這一塊，也就是所謂共案合作到底怎麼走，可能要把開會討論之後的結果給我，也要邀請其他的部會。"],["呂次長建德：好，OK。"],["林委員月琴：矯正署這邊，是不是針對我剛剛提的環境部分，尤其是輔導空間的設施還有人力的補足？"],["周署長輝煌：好的。"],["林委員月琴：麻煩署長跟次長能夠在兩週內把以上相關資料給我，謝謝。"],["周署長輝煌：好的。"],["呂次長建德：好，OK，謝謝委員。"],["主席：謝謝。","下一位請王鴻薇委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":432,"meet_id":"委員會-11-3-36-20","speakers":["吳宗憲","王義川","陳培瑜","吳思瑤","黃國昌","沈發惠","羅智強","莊瑞雄","林月琴","王鴻薇","張啓楷","徐欣瑩","葉元之","翁曉玲","林倩綺","張雅琳","林國成"],"page_start":355,"meetingDate":["2025-06-18"],"gazette_id":"1146101","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1146101_00008"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期司法及法制委員會第20次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請司法院副秘書長、法務部部長、衛生福利部部長、教育部部長、法務部矯正署署長、內政部\n警政署署長、勞動部、法務部廉政署率所屬相關單位列席就「青少年刑案嫌疑人於2024年創歷年\n新高，達4.7萬餘人次，現行少年輔導、矯正效能，包括校園霸凌處理機制、高關懷學生、安置\n輔導、保護管束、感化教育、職能訓練、更生系統、中介轉銜機制、追蹤輔導、逆境社工等，及\n《少年事件處理法》『行政輔導先行』施行迄今近兩年，相關制度之檢討與策進」進行專題報\n告，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1146101_00007"}}}