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\"end\": 99.83, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"塊\"}]}, {\"start\": 101.491, \"end\": 119.083, \"text\": \"就是說哪些服務醫療服務或什麼可以用AI做這要衛護部去制定那剛剛講就那個因為剛剛講風險管理以外另外就是我們要做一些評測啦那評測我們可以幫忙就是評測好那這樣一個問題就是包括甚至就有這個監測嘛對不對就是未來就評測評估再測量對不對就這個部分評估就是說它的風險的我們要評估它風險的那個等級啊這樣好\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 101.491, \"end\": 101.591, \"score\": 0.779}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 101.591, \"end\": 102.031, \"score\": 0.946}, {\"word\": \"說\"}, {\"word\": \"哪\", \"start\": 102.031, \"end\": 102.232, \"score\": 0.903}, {\"word\": \"些\", \"start\": 102.232, \"end\": 103.592, \"score\": 0.947}, {\"word\": \"服\", \"start\": 103.592, \"end\": 103.813, \"score\": 0.899}, {\"word\": \"務\"}, {\"word\": \"醫\"}, {\"word\": \"療\"}, {\"word\": \"服\", \"start\": 103.813, \"end\": 104.033, \"score\": 0.915}, {\"word\": \"務\"}, {\"word\": \"或\", \"start\": 104.033, \"end\": 104.173, \"score\": 0.803}, {\"word\": \"什\", \"start\": 104.173, \"end\": 104.733, \"score\": 0.895}, {\"word\": \"麼\"}, {\"word\": \"可\", 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\"start\": 495.025, \"end\": 495.166, \"score\": 0.551}, {\"word\": \"面\", \"start\": 495.166, \"end\": 495.286, \"score\": 0.664}, {\"word\": \"能\", \"start\": 495.286, \"end\": 495.487, \"score\": 0.38}, {\"word\": \"夠\"}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 495.487, \"end\": 495.708, \"score\": 0.714}, {\"word\": \"基\", \"start\": 495.708, \"end\": 495.828, \"score\": 0.513}, {\"word\": \"本\", \"start\": 495.828, \"end\": 495.949, \"score\": 0.803}, {\"word\": \"法\", \"start\": 495.949, \"end\": 496.049, \"score\": 0.672}, {\"word\": \"當\"}, {\"word\": \"中\", \"start\": 496.049, \"end\": 496.069, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"呈\", \"start\": 496.069, \"end\": 496.109, \"score\": 0.5}, {\"word\": \"現\"}, {\"word\": \"出\", \"start\": 496.109, \"end\": 496.129, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"共\", \"start\": 496.129, \"end\": 496.149, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"創\"}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"盛\", \"start\": 496.149, \"end\": 496.17, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"舉\"}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 496.17, \"end\": 496.19, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 496.19, \"end\": 496.23, \"score\": 0.5}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 496.23, \"end\": 496.25, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"樣\"}, {\"word\": \"子\", \"start\": 496.25, \"end\": 496.27, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:03,695 --> 00:00:06,436\n有請黃部長陳部長好部長好那根據有一個雜誌數位時代它在今年的五月份呢它報導指出來呢有越來越多的台灣年輕人呢他們是選擇和AI機器人聊天那進行的是自助式的一個心理輔導\n\n2\n00:00:31,426 --> 00:00:43,334\n那最重要的原因是因為心理的門診難約費用很高算了一下大概一次就要兩千到三千元可是呢如果是選擇這樣一個AI機器人AI這個APP來做的話呢他一個月三千兩百塊錢而已\n\n3\n00:00:49,738 --> 00:00:57,542\n那年輕族群寧願把這個情緒焦慮交給這個APP而不願意尋求專業上面的一個心理的諮商但是有很大的風險是在於說AI不懂人心不具備判斷自殺的這個傾向能力也無法負責任的轉介所以我想要請問的部長的是這樣的結合心理醫療療癒的跟AI的新型服務呢政府是不是有一個這樣的一個監管的討論已經在進行了\n\n4\n00:01:18,516 --> 00:01:39,830\n對我們那個本來就講說AI有它的風險嘛就是其中一個風險那我們這個框架的做法就是說我們先把這個分類就是它有哪些可能的風險講出來然後像這個就是衛福部他們可能要去定分級就是哪些AI應用所以你們有跟衛福部在做分工討論對對對這個就將來在作用法裡面衛福部會去對這一塊\n\n5\n00:01:41,491 --> 00:01:59,083\n就是說哪些服務醫療服務或什麼可以用AI做這要衛護部去制定那剛剛講就那個因為剛剛講風險管理以外另外就是我們要做一些評測啦那評測我們可以幫忙就是評測好那這樣一個問題就是包括甚至就有這個監測嘛對不對就是未來就評測評估再測量對不對就這個部分評估就是說它的風險的我們要評估它風險的那個等級啊這樣好\n\n6\n00:02:07,148 --> 00:02:09,549\n那這部分是我剛才也聽到部長你在講就是速發部是負責AI產業的部分對不對還有AI的風險管理嘛對吧你講過了那這個部分的時候特別要想詢問的是說這個高風險的AI的這個分檢分類架構您過去在教文委員會也談過這部分\n\n7\n00:02:27,458 --> 00:02:50,516\n那這部分可是在目前的在藍跟綠的AI的基本法當中他們都只有一條在做內容的詳盡相關而已這部分那你們是不是可以再做詳細的更多的除了一個架構你們是要用行政命令的部分做一個架構呈現出來嗎沒有辦法在基本法當中呈現出來不同的分類的一個大概制的一個分類嗎\n\n8\n00:02:51,540 --> 00:03:13,280\n那個報委員這個主要的AI基本法是一個框架框架的目的是把這些就是說要注意的事情先講清楚只是說自己怎麼執行就後面有一個叫作用法那作用法就要把這個東西講就是要把它define出來所以要定義出來所以我們目前的分工是這樣就是這個框架部分由我們部裡面來制定\n\n9\n00:03:13,700 --> 00:03:28,307\n我建議您在我們因為在民眾黨的AI發展跟管理條例當中其實有特別是專章的這部分有在提到這些部分我想這一部分請你就是可以好好的就是說做參考一些部分報告像是不是可以採取歐盟的這樣的風險分類機制委員民眾版本比較細比較像作用法這個我們在\n\n10\n00:03:34,770 --> 00:03:48,886\n但是架構的部分我想應該可以給你做一個這個選擇方法對我想這個就是到時候我們希望在這個我們在這個立院審查的時候大家會有共識而且全國應該有一次的一個標準雖然的高風險的情況在適用在\n\n11\n00:03:50,347 --> 00:04:10,072\n農業部或是交通部甚至在衛福部的標準其實是一樣的但是同樣的規則這才是衛福部就是副發部最重要做的責任但是他們不同的標準同樣的標準但是做分類的方式由各個部會去進行才是重要的比如說我們在分級如果到後面的各部會去做分級的時候哪一些應用\n\n12\n00:04:10,552 --> 00:04:32,787\n所以是會有一個統一的標準但是各個各個去對應嘛對不對各個會根據他的業務的關係比如剛剛講的心理諮商是要列為哪一級就衛務部去決定這樣好那我們今天剛來的時候也聽到很多的執政黨的委員他針對這個禮拜的時候在黃國昌委員在司法法制委員會當中針對的他有播放一個\n\n13\n00:04:34,748 --> 00:04:39,835\n檢察官的一個檢察官在偵訊當中的一個陰檔他後來有宣稱說這是一個示範的這個陰檔啊這部分然後呢因為執政黨的議委員他們特別強調是說呢如果是屬於這樣身衛的啊這些部分啊甚至是在有\n\n14\n00:04:51,509 --> 00:05:10,424\n語言互動的AI像剛剛有說的這個聊天機器人或是有情緒生物特徵等等辨識的部分都應該要把它放在都應該把它在事前就是應該要做一個告知這個動作對不對要標示要告知對的那這個部分民眾黨的版本也特別強調說在我們的27條到29條當中特別強調說像剛才說到的這些\n\n15\n00:05:15,308 --> 00:05:36,857\n揭露他的真實性的來源情勢識別跟DEFACT這種身衛部分呢通通都要有標示義務這部分部長是不是可以承諾這部分事實上應該真的把它拉進來這個就是說我們在後面討論基本法的時候當然會列入考慮不過就是說這個基本法只考慮而已啊剛剛這麼多執政黨委員都說應該要加進去了耶不是剛剛委員你們講這個東西事實上在打詐釋法就已經入法了所以這個還\n\n16\n00:05:42,099 --> 00:06:08,866\n可能這個基本法還不需要去管到這邊的法律但是我是想說這個基本法還是一個框架我們也只用了兩個就是說你事實上我們剛剛所說的只要幾個字而已大概不到十個字就可以在一條條你就把它送上去了只要你要揭露它的真實性你用身為這些部分或者是有涉及到人生物特徵的這種情緒的部分都應該揭示這個是一個人工的要把它揭示清楚才就可以第一關就保護到人民啊\n\n17\n00:06:11,030 --> 00:06:36,150\n我們現在正在融合各個委員的版本我們有14個版本然後會產生的部版那這個當然會在我們的討論之中好我們這邊也要特別的呼籲民眾黨的版本是AI發展與管理條例這部分呢其實它有它的必要性現在尤其是我們正在運用的這個階段部長你也說到的現在我們是對於產業發展跟運用是由你們來主導對不對\n\n18\n00:06:38,992 --> 00:07:01,741\n產業發展是很多部位一起主導但是現在但是你們在AI的部分AI的也是好幾個部位主導但是我們在一些像軟體、支付啦這些就是我是說你自己在說產業你早上剛剛講的AI的產業的發展跟運用是速發部主導對吧那個我們負責很大一塊啦但是這是跨部會合作的結果這樣\n\n19\n00:07:02,691 --> 00:07:06,853\n好那您這樣子講我們反正就是您是我們會負責其他一塊我們這邊就是要呼籲齁既然執政黨都已經強力的在監督的所有在野黨那我們也發現到說\n\n20\n00:07:21,381 --> 00:07:44,926\n這些部分的確是有要把像這種所謂身為的情緒情緒相關的這些部分只要是有人為部分必須要把它強力強起來說那我們就呼籲執政黨就一起來支持我們的在未來在7月15號在審議人工基本法人工智慧基本法或者是說包括像我們一個整體的人工的智慧的發展跟\n\n21\n00:07:46,126 --> 00:07:52,810\n發展跟管理條例的時候能夠把這個經驗把這樣的一個立法的精神把它放在一起來來加入到加入到說把這樣的一部基本法把它弄好那這邊的話也呼籲到執政黨就是要來起義來歸這部分現在你們都重視到這邊的身衛技術的使用事實上會造成危害特別的就要把它的出處的使用的方式把它標明出來那這部分呢就一起來讓這樣的民眾黨的版本能夠把它能夠送出到這個\n\n22\n00:08:14,403 --> 00:08:16,270\n至少精神上面能夠在基本法當中呈現出來來共創這個盛舉好那就這樣子謝謝\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n3695\t6436\t有請黃部長 陳部長好 部長好那根據有一個雜誌 數位時代它在今年的五月份呢 它報導指出來呢有越來越多的台灣年輕人呢他們是選擇和AI機器人聊天那進行的是自助式的一個心理輔導\n31426\t43334\t那最重要的原因是因為心理的門診難約費用很高算了一下大概一次就要兩千到三千元可是呢如果是選擇這樣一個AI機器人AI這個APP來做的話呢他一個月三千兩百塊錢而已\n49738\t57542\t那年輕族群寧願把這個情緒焦慮交給這個APP而不願意尋求專業上面的一個心理的諮商但是有很大的風險是在於說AI不懂人心不具備判斷自殺的這個傾向能力也無法負責任的轉介所以我想要請問的部長的是這樣的結合心理醫療療癒的跟AI的新型服務呢政府是不是有一個這樣的一個監管的討論已經在進行了\n78516\t99830\t對我們那個本來就講說AI有它的風險嘛就是其中一個風險那我們這個框架的做法就是說我們先把這個分類就是它有哪些可能的風險講出來然後像這個就是衛福部他們可能要去定分級就是哪些AI應用所以你們有跟衛福部在做分工討論對對對這個就將來在作用法裡面衛福部會去對這一塊\n101491\t119083\t就是說哪些服務醫療服務或什麼可以用AI做這要衛護部去制定那剛剛講就那個因為剛剛講風險管理以外另外就是我們要做一些評測啦那評測我們可以幫忙就是評測好那這樣一個問題就是包括甚至就有這個監測嘛對不對就是未來就評測評估再測量對不對就這個部分評估就是說它的風險的我們要評估它風險的那個等級啊這樣好\n127148\t129549\t那這部分是我剛才也聽到部長你在講就是速發部是負責AI產業的部分對不對還有AI的風險管理嘛對吧你講過了那這個部分的時候特別要想詢問的是說這個高風險的AI的這個分檢分類架構您過去在教文委員會也談過這部分\n147458\t170516\t那這部分可是在目前的在藍跟綠的AI的基本法當中他們都只有一條在做內容的詳盡相關而已這部分那你們是不是可以再做詳細的更多的除了一個架構你們是要用行政命令的部分做一個架構呈現出來嗎沒有辦法在基本法當中呈現出來不同的分類的一個大概制的一個分類嗎\n171540\t193280\t那個報委員這個主要的AI基本法是一個框架框架的目的是把這些就是說要注意的事情先講清楚只是說自己怎麼執行就後面有一個叫作用法那作用法就要把這個東西講就是要把它define出來所以要定義出來所以我們目前的分工是這樣就是這個框架部分由我們部裡面來制定\n193700\t208307\t我建議您在我們因為在民眾黨的AI發展跟管理條例當中其實有特別是專章的這部分有在提到這些部分我想這一部分請你就是可以好好的就是說做參考一些部分報告像是不是可以採取歐盟的這樣的風險分類機制委員民眾版本比較細比較像作用法這個我們在\n214770\t228886\t但是架構的部分我想應該可以給你做一個這個選擇方法對我想這個就是到時候我們希望在這個我們在這個立院審查的時候大家會有共識而且全國應該有一次的一個標準雖然的高風險的情況在適用在\n230347\t250072\t農業部或是交通部甚至在衛福部的標準其實是一樣的但是同樣的規則這才是衛福部就是副發部最重要做的責任但是他們不同的標準同樣的標準但是做分類的方式由各個部會去進行才是重要的比如說我們在分級如果到後面的各部會去做分級的時候哪一些應用\n250552\t272787\t所以是會有一個統一的標準但是各個各個去對應嘛對不對各個會根據他的業務的關係 比如剛剛講的心理諮商是要列為哪一級就衛務部去決定這樣好那我們今天剛來的時候也聽到很多的執政黨的委員他針對這個禮拜的時候在黃國昌委員在司法法制委員會當中針對的他有播放一個\n274748\t279835\t檢察官的一個 檢察官在偵訊當中的一個陰檔他後來有宣稱說這是一個示範的這個陰檔啊這部分然後呢因為執政黨的議委員他們特別強調是說呢如果是屬於這樣身衛的啊這些部分啊甚至是在有\n291509\t310424\t語言互動的AI 像剛剛有說的這個聊天機器人或是有情緒生物特徵等等辨識的部分都應該要把它放在都應該把它在事前就是應該要做一個告知這個動作對不對要標示 要告知對的 那這個部分民眾黨的版本也特別強調說在我們的27條到29條當中特別強調說像剛才說到的這些\n315308\t336857\t揭露他的真實性的來源 情勢識別跟DEFACT這種身衛部分呢通通都要有標示義務 這部分部長是不是可以承諾這部分事實上應該真的把它拉進來這個就是說我們在後面討論基本法的時候當然會列入考慮不過就是說這個基本法 只考慮而已啊剛剛這麼多執政黨委員都說應該要加進去了耶不是 剛剛委員你們講這個東西事實上在打詐釋法就已經入法了 所以這個還\n342099\t368866\t可能這個基本法還不需要去管到這邊的法律但是我是想說這個基本法還是一個框架我們也只用了兩個就是說你事實上我們剛剛所說的只要幾個字而已大概不到十個字就可以在一條條你就把它送上去了只要你要揭露它的真實性你用身為這些部分或者是有涉及到人生物特徵的這種情緒的部分都應該揭示這個是一個人工的要把它揭示清楚才就可以第一關就保護到人民啊\n371030\t396150\t我們現在正在融合各個委員的版本我們有14個版本然後會產生的部版那這個當然會在我們的討論之中好 我們這邊也要特別的呼籲民眾黨的版本是AI發展與管理條例這部分呢 其實它有它的必要性現在尤其是我們正在運用的這個階段部長你也說到的現在我們是對於產業發展跟運用是由你們來主導對不對\n398992\t421741\t產業發展是很多部位一起主導但是現在但是你們在AI的部分AI的也是好幾個部位主導但是我們在一些像軟體、支付啦這些就是我是說你自己在說產業你早上剛剛講的AI的產業的發展跟運用是速發部主導對吧那個我們負責很大一塊啦但是這是跨部會合作的結果這樣\n422691\t426853\t好那您這樣子講我們反正就是您是我們會負責其他一塊我們這邊就是要呼籲齁既然執政黨都已經強力的在監督的所有在野黨那我們也發現到說\n441381\t464926\t這些部分的確是有要把像這種所謂身為的情緒情緒相關的這些部分只要是有人為部分必須要把它強力強起來說那我們就呼籲執政黨就一起來支持我們的在未來在7月15號在審議人工基本法人工智慧基本法或者是說包括像我們一個整體的人工的智慧的發展跟\n466126\t472810\t發展跟管理條例的時候能夠把這個經驗把這樣的一個立法的精神把它放在一起來來加入到加入到說把這樣的一部基本法把它弄好那這邊的話也呼籲到執政黨就是要來起義來歸這部分現在你們都重視到這邊的身衛技術的使用事實上會造成危害特別的就要把它的出處的使用的方式把它標明出來那這部分呢就一起來讓這樣的民眾黨的版本能夠把它能夠送出到這個\n494403\t496270\t至少精神上面能夠在基本法當中呈現出來來共創這個盛舉好 那就這樣子 謝謝\n","txt":"有請黃部長 陳部長好 部長好那根據有一個雜誌 數位時代它在今年的五月份呢 它報導指出來呢有越來越多的台灣年輕人呢他們是選擇和AI機器人聊天那進行的是自助式的一個心理輔導\n那最重要的原因是因為心理的門診難約費用很高算了一下大概一次就要兩千到三千元可是呢如果是選擇這樣一個AI機器人AI這個APP來做的話呢他一個月三千兩百塊錢而已\n那年輕族群寧願把這個情緒焦慮交給這個APP而不願意尋求專業上面的一個心理的諮商但是有很大的風險是在於說AI不懂人心不具備判斷自殺的這個傾向能力也無法負責任的轉介所以我想要請問的部長的是這樣的結合心理醫療療癒的跟AI的新型服務呢政府是不是有一個這樣的一個監管的討論已經在進行了\n對我們那個本來就講說AI有它的風險嘛就是其中一個風險那我們這個框架的做法就是說我們先把這個分類就是它有哪些可能的風險講出來然後像這個就是衛福部他們可能要去定分級就是哪些AI應用所以你們有跟衛福部在做分工討論對對對這個就將來在作用法裡面衛福部會去對這一塊\n就是說哪些服務醫療服務或什麼可以用AI做這要衛護部去制定那剛剛講就那個因為剛剛講風險管理以外另外就是我們要做一些評測啦那評測我們可以幫忙就是評測好那這樣一個問題就是包括甚至就有這個監測嘛對不對就是未來就評測評估再測量對不對就這個部分評估就是說它的風險的我們要評估它風險的那個等級啊這樣好\n那這部分是我剛才也聽到部長你在講就是速發部是負責AI產業的部分對不對還有AI的風險管理嘛對吧你講過了那這個部分的時候特別要想詢問的是說這個高風險的AI的這個分檢分類架構您過去在教文委員會也談過這部分\n那這部分可是在目前的在藍跟綠的AI的基本法當中他們都只有一條在做內容的詳盡相關而已這部分那你們是不是可以再做詳細的更多的除了一個架構你們是要用行政命令的部分做一個架構呈現出來嗎沒有辦法在基本法當中呈現出來不同的分類的一個大概制的一個分類嗎\n那個報委員這個主要的AI基本法是一個框架框架的目的是把這些就是說要注意的事情先講清楚只是說自己怎麼執行就後面有一個叫作用法那作用法就要把這個東西講就是要把它define出來所以要定義出來所以我們目前的分工是這樣就是這個框架部分由我們部裡面來制定\n我建議您在我們因為在民眾黨的AI發展跟管理條例當中其實有特別是專章的這部分有在提到這些部分我想這一部分請你就是可以好好的就是說做參考一些部分報告像是不是可以採取歐盟的這樣的風險分類機制委員民眾版本比較細比較像作用法這個我們在\n但是架構的部分我想應該可以給你做一個這個選擇方法對我想這個就是到時候我們希望在這個我們在這個立院審查的時候大家會有共識而且全國應該有一次的一個標準雖然的高風險的情況在適用在\n農業部或是交通部甚至在衛福部的標準其實是一樣的但是同樣的規則這才是衛福部就是副發部最重要做的責任但是他們不同的標準同樣的標準但是做分類的方式由各個部會去進行才是重要的比如說我們在分級如果到後面的各部會去做分級的時候哪一些應用\n所以是會有一個統一的標準但是各個各個去對應嘛對不對各個會根據他的業務的關係 比如剛剛講的心理諮商是要列為哪一級就衛務部去決定這樣好那我們今天剛來的時候也聽到很多的執政黨的委員他針對這個禮拜的時候在黃國昌委員在司法法制委員會當中針對的他有播放一個\n檢察官的一個 檢察官在偵訊當中的一個陰檔他後來有宣稱說這是一個示範的這個陰檔啊這部分然後呢因為執政黨的議委員他們特別強調是說呢如果是屬於這樣身衛的啊這些部分啊甚至是在有\n語言互動的AI 像剛剛有說的這個聊天機器人或是有情緒生物特徵等等辨識的部分都應該要把它放在都應該把它在事前就是應該要做一個告知這個動作對不對要標示 要告知對的 那這個部分民眾黨的版本也特別強調說在我們的27條到29條當中特別強調說像剛才說到的這些\n揭露他的真實性的來源 情勢識別跟DEFACT這種身衛部分呢通通都要有標示義務 這部分部長是不是可以承諾這部分事實上應該真的把它拉進來這個就是說我們在後面討論基本法的時候當然會列入考慮不過就是說這個基本法 只考慮而已啊剛剛這麼多執政黨委員都說應該要加進去了耶不是 剛剛委員你們講這個東西事實上在打詐釋法就已經入法了 所以這個還\n可能這個基本法還不需要去管到這邊的法律但是我是想說這個基本法還是一個框架我們也只用了兩個就是說你事實上我們剛剛所說的只要幾個字而已大概不到十個字就可以在一條條你就把它送上去了只要你要揭露它的真實性你用身為這些部分或者是有涉及到人生物特徵的這種情緒的部分都應該揭示這個是一個人工的要把它揭示清楚才就可以第一關就保護到人民啊\n我們現在正在融合各個委員的版本我們有14個版本然後會產生的部版那這個當然會在我們的討論之中好 我們這邊也要特別的呼籲民眾黨的版本是AI發展與管理條例這部分呢 其實它有它的必要性現在尤其是我們正在運用的這個階段部長你也說到的現在我們是對於產業發展跟運用是由你們來主導對不對\n產業發展是很多部位一起主導但是現在但是你們在AI的部分AI的也是好幾個部位主導但是我們在一些像軟體、支付啦這些就是我是說你自己在說產業你早上剛剛講的AI的產業的發展跟運用是速發部主導對吧那個我們負責很大一塊啦但是這是跨部會合作的結果這樣\n好那您這樣子講我們反正就是您是我們會負責其他一塊我們這邊就是要呼籲齁既然執政黨都已經強力的在監督的所有在野黨那我們也發現到說\n這些部分的確是有要把像這種所謂身為的情緒情緒相關的這些部分只要是有人為部分必須要把它強力強起來說那我們就呼籲執政黨就一起來支持我們的在未來在7月15號在審議人工基本法人工智慧基本法或者是說包括像我們一個整體的人工的智慧的發展跟\n發展跟管理條例的時候能夠把這個經驗把這樣的一個立法的精神把它放在一起來來加入到加入到說把這樣的一部基本法把它弄好那這邊的話也呼籲到執政黨就是要來起義來歸這部分現在你們都重視到這邊的身衛技術的使用事實上會造成危害特別的就要把它的出處的使用的方式把它標明出來那這部分呢就一起來讓這樣的民眾黨的版本能夠把它能夠送出到這個\n至少精神上面能夠在基本法當中呈現出來來共創這個盛舉好 那就這樣子 謝謝\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:03.695 --> 00:06.436\n有請黃部長陳部長好部長好那根據有一個雜誌數位時代它在今年的五月份呢它報導指出來呢有越來越多的台灣年輕人呢他們是選擇和AI機器人聊天那進行的是自助式的一個心理輔導\n\n00:31.426 --> 00:43.334\n那最重要的原因是因為心理的門診難約費用很高算了一下大概一次就要兩千到三千元可是呢如果是選擇這樣一個AI機器人AI這個APP來做的話呢他一個月三千兩百塊錢而已\n\n00:49.738 --> 00:57.542\n那年輕族群寧願把這個情緒焦慮交給這個APP而不願意尋求專業上面的一個心理的諮商但是有很大的風險是在於說AI不懂人心不具備判斷自殺的這個傾向能力也無法負責任的轉介所以我想要請問的部長的是這樣的結合心理醫療療癒的跟AI的新型服務呢政府是不是有一個這樣的一個監管的討論已經在進行了\n\n01:18.516 --> 01:39.830\n對我們那個本來就講說AI有它的風險嘛就是其中一個風險那我們這個框架的做法就是說我們先把這個分類就是它有哪些可能的風險講出來然後像這個就是衛福部他們可能要去定分級就是哪些AI應用所以你們有跟衛福部在做分工討論對對對這個就將來在作用法裡面衛福部會去對這一塊\n\n01:41.491 --> 01:59.083\n就是說哪些服務醫療服務或什麼可以用AI做這要衛護部去制定那剛剛講就那個因為剛剛講風險管理以外另外就是我們要做一些評測啦那評測我們可以幫忙就是評測好那這樣一個問題就是包括甚至就有這個監測嘛對不對就是未來就評測評估再測量對不對就這個部分評估就是說它的風險的我們要評估它風險的那個等級啊這樣好\n\n02:07.148 --> 02:09.549\n那這部分是我剛才也聽到部長你在講就是速發部是負責AI產業的部分對不對還有AI的風險管理嘛對吧你講過了那這個部分的時候特別要想詢問的是說這個高風險的AI的這個分檢分類架構您過去在教文委員會也談過這部分\n\n02:27.458 --> 02:50.516\n那這部分可是在目前的在藍跟綠的AI的基本法當中他們都只有一條在做內容的詳盡相關而已這部分那你們是不是可以再做詳細的更多的除了一個架構你們是要用行政命令的部分做一個架構呈現出來嗎沒有辦法在基本法當中呈現出來不同的分類的一個大概制的一個分類嗎\n\n02:51.540 --> 03:13.280\n那個報委員這個主要的AI基本法是一個框架框架的目的是把這些就是說要注意的事情先講清楚只是說自己怎麼執行就後面有一個叫作用法那作用法就要把這個東西講就是要把它define出來所以要定義出來所以我們目前的分工是這樣就是這個框架部分由我們部裡面來制定\n\n03:13.700 --> 03:28.307\n我建議您在我們因為在民眾黨的AI發展跟管理條例當中其實有特別是專章的這部分有在提到這些部分我想這一部分請你就是可以好好的就是說做參考一些部分報告像是不是可以採取歐盟的這樣的風險分類機制委員民眾版本比較細比較像作用法這個我們在\n\n03:34.770 --> 03:48.886\n但是架構的部分我想應該可以給你做一個這個選擇方法對我想這個就是到時候我們希望在這個我們在這個立院審查的時候大家會有共識而且全國應該有一次的一個標準雖然的高風險的情況在適用在\n\n03:50.347 --> 04:10.072\n農業部或是交通部甚至在衛福部的標準其實是一樣的但是同樣的規則這才是衛福部就是副發部最重要做的責任但是他們不同的標準同樣的標準但是做分類的方式由各個部會去進行才是重要的比如說我們在分級如果到後面的各部會去做分級的時候哪一些應用\n\n04:10.552 --> 04:32.787\n所以是會有一個統一的標準但是各個各個去對應嘛對不對各個會根據他的業務的關係比如剛剛講的心理諮商是要列為哪一級就衛務部去決定這樣好那我們今天剛來的時候也聽到很多的執政黨的委員他針對這個禮拜的時候在黃國昌委員在司法法制委員會當中針對的他有播放一個\n\n04:34.748 --> 04:39.835\n檢察官的一個檢察官在偵訊當中的一個陰檔他後來有宣稱說這是一個示範的這個陰檔啊這部分然後呢因為執政黨的議委員他們特別強調是說呢如果是屬於這樣身衛的啊這些部分啊甚至是在有\n\n04:51.509 --> 05:10.424\n語言互動的AI像剛剛有說的這個聊天機器人或是有情緒生物特徵等等辨識的部分都應該要把它放在都應該把它在事前就是應該要做一個告知這個動作對不對要標示要告知對的那這個部分民眾黨的版本也特別強調說在我們的27條到29條當中特別強調說像剛才說到的這些\n\n05:15.308 --> 05:36.857\n揭露他的真實性的來源情勢識別跟DEFACT這種身衛部分呢通通都要有標示義務這部分部長是不是可以承諾這部分事實上應該真的把它拉進來這個就是說我們在後面討論基本法的時候當然會列入考慮不過就是說這個基本法只考慮而已啊剛剛這麼多執政黨委員都說應該要加進去了耶不是剛剛委員你們講這個東西事實上在打詐釋法就已經入法了所以這個還\n\n05:42.099 --> 06:08.866\n可能這個基本法還不需要去管到這邊的法律但是我是想說這個基本法還是一個框架我們也只用了兩個就是說你事實上我們剛剛所說的只要幾個字而已大概不到十個字就可以在一條條你就把它送上去了只要你要揭露它的真實性你用身為這些部分或者是有涉及到人生物特徵的這種情緒的部分都應該揭示這個是一個人工的要把它揭示清楚才就可以第一關就保護到人民啊\n\n06:11.030 --> 06:36.150\n我們現在正在融合各個委員的版本我們有14個版本然後會產生的部版那這個當然會在我們的討論之中好我們這邊也要特別的呼籲民眾黨的版本是AI發展與管理條例這部分呢其實它有它的必要性現在尤其是我們正在運用的這個階段部長你也說到的現在我們是對於產業發展跟運用是由你們來主導對不對\n\n06:38.992 --> 07:01.741\n產業發展是很多部位一起主導但是現在但是你們在AI的部分AI的也是好幾個部位主導但是我們在一些像軟體、支付啦這些就是我是說你自己在說產業你早上剛剛講的AI的產業的發展跟運用是速發部主導對吧那個我們負責很大一塊啦但是這是跨部會合作的結果這樣\n\n07:02.691 --> 07:06.853\n好那您這樣子講我們反正就是您是我們會負責其他一塊我們這邊就是要呼籲齁既然執政黨都已經強力的在監督的所有在野黨那我們也發現到說\n\n07:21.381 --> 07:44.926\n這些部分的確是有要把像這種所謂身為的情緒情緒相關的這些部分只要是有人為部分必須要把它強力強起來說那我們就呼籲執政黨就一起來支持我們的在未來在7月15號在審議人工基本法人工智慧基本法或者是說包括像我們一個整體的人工的智慧的發展跟\n\n07:46.126 --> 07:52.810\n發展跟管理條例的時候能夠把這個經驗把這樣的一個立法的精神把它放在一起來來加入到加入到說把這樣的一部基本法把它弄好那這邊的話也呼籲到執政黨就是要來起義來歸這部分現在你們都重視到這邊的身衛技術的使用事實上會造成危害特別的就要把它的出處的使用的方式把它標明出來那這部分呢就一起來讓這樣的民眾黨的版本能夠把它能夠送出到這個\n\n08:14.403 --> 08:16.270\n至少精神上面能夠在基本法當中呈現出來來共創這個盛舉好那就這樣子謝謝\n\n","segments":[{"start":3.695,"end":6.436,"text":"有請黃部長 陳部長好 部長好那根據有一個雜誌 數位時代它在今年的五月份呢 它報導指出來呢有越來越多的台灣年輕人呢他們是選擇和AI機器人聊天那進行的是自助式的一個心理輔導"},{"start":31.426,"end":43.334,"text":"那最重要的原因是因為心理的門診難約費用很高算了一下大概一次就要兩千到三千元可是呢如果是選擇這樣一個AI機器人AI這個APP來做的話呢他一個月三千兩百塊錢而已"},{"start":49.738,"end":57.542,"text":"那年輕族群寧願把這個情緒焦慮交給這個APP而不願意尋求專業上面的一個心理的諮商但是有很大的風險是在於說AI不懂人心不具備判斷自殺的這個傾向能力也無法負責任的轉介所以我想要請問的部長的是這樣的結合心理醫療療癒的跟AI的新型服務呢政府是不是有一個這樣的一個監管的討論已經在進行了"},{"start":78.516,"end":99.83,"text":"對我們那個本來就講說AI有它的風險嘛就是其中一個風險那我們這個框架的做法就是說我們先把這個分類就是它有哪些可能的風險講出來然後像這個就是衛福部他們可能要去定分級就是哪些AI應用所以你們有跟衛福部在做分工討論對對對這個就將來在作用法裡面衛福部會去對這一塊"},{"start":101.491,"end":119.083,"text":"就是說哪些服務醫療服務或什麼可以用AI做這要衛護部去制定那剛剛講就那個因為剛剛講風險管理以外另外就是我們要做一些評測啦那評測我們可以幫忙就是評測好那這樣一個問題就是包括甚至就有這個監測嘛對不對就是未來就評測評估再測量對不對就這個部分評估就是說它的風險的我們要評估它風險的那個等級啊這樣好"},{"start":127.148,"end":129.549,"text":"那這部分是我剛才也聽到部長你在講就是速發部是負責AI產業的部分對不對還有AI的風險管理嘛對吧你講過了那這個部分的時候特別要想詢問的是說這個高風險的AI的這個分檢分類架構您過去在教文委員會也談過這部分"},{"start":147.458,"end":170.516,"text":"那這部分可是在目前的在藍跟綠的AI的基本法當中他們都只有一條在做內容的詳盡相關而已這部分那你們是不是可以再做詳細的更多的除了一個架構你們是要用行政命令的部分做一個架構呈現出來嗎沒有辦法在基本法當中呈現出來不同的分類的一個大概制的一個分類嗎"},{"start":171.54,"end":193.28,"text":"那個報委員這個主要的AI基本法是一個框架框架的目的是把這些就是說要注意的事情先講清楚只是說自己怎麼執行就後面有一個叫作用法那作用法就要把這個東西講就是要把它define出來所以要定義出來所以我們目前的分工是這樣就是這個框架部分由我們部裡面來制定"},{"start":193.7,"end":208.307,"text":"我建議您在我們因為在民眾黨的AI發展跟管理條例當中其實有特別是專章的這部分有在提到這些部分我想這一部分請你就是可以好好的就是說做參考一些部分報告像是不是可以採取歐盟的這樣的風險分類機制委員民眾版本比較細比較像作用法這個我們在"},{"start":214.77,"end":228.886,"text":"但是架構的部分我想應該可以給你做一個這個選擇方法對我想這個就是到時候我們希望在這個我們在這個立院審查的時候大家會有共識而且全國應該有一次的一個標準雖然的高風險的情況在適用在"},{"start":230.347,"end":250.072,"text":"農業部或是交通部甚至在衛福部的標準其實是一樣的但是同樣的規則這才是衛福部就是副發部最重要做的責任但是他們不同的標準同樣的標準但是做分類的方式由各個部會去進行才是重要的比如說我們在分級如果到後面的各部會去做分級的時候哪一些應用"},{"start":250.552,"end":272.787,"text":"所以是會有一個統一的標準但是各個各個去對應嘛對不對各個會根據他的業務的關係 比如剛剛講的心理諮商是要列為哪一級就衛務部去決定這樣好那我們今天剛來的時候也聽到很多的執政黨的委員他針對這個禮拜的時候在黃國昌委員在司法法制委員會當中針對的他有播放一個"},{"start":274.748,"end":279.835,"text":"檢察官的一個 檢察官在偵訊當中的一個陰檔他後來有宣稱說這是一個示範的這個陰檔啊這部分然後呢因為執政黨的議委員他們特別強調是說呢如果是屬於這樣身衛的啊這些部分啊甚至是在有"},{"start":291.509,"end":310.424,"text":"語言互動的AI 像剛剛有說的這個聊天機器人或是有情緒生物特徵等等辨識的部分都應該要把它放在都應該把它在事前就是應該要做一個告知這個動作對不對要標示 要告知對的 那這個部分民眾黨的版本也特別強調說在我們的27條到29條當中特別強調說像剛才說到的這些"},{"start":315.308,"end":336.857,"text":"揭露他的真實性的來源 情勢識別跟DEFACT這種身衛部分呢通通都要有標示義務 這部分部長是不是可以承諾這部分事實上應該真的把它拉進來這個就是說我們在後面討論基本法的時候當然會列入考慮不過就是說這個基本法 只考慮而已啊剛剛這麼多執政黨委員都說應該要加進去了耶不是 剛剛委員你們講這個東西事實上在打詐釋法就已經入法了 所以這個還"},{"start":342.099,"end":368.866,"text":"可能這個基本法還不需要去管到這邊的法律但是我是想說這個基本法還是一個框架我們也只用了兩個就是說你事實上我們剛剛所說的只要幾個字而已大概不到十個字就可以在一條條你就把它送上去了只要你要揭露它的真實性你用身為這些部分或者是有涉及到人生物特徵的這種情緒的部分都應該揭示這個是一個人工的要把它揭示清楚才就可以第一關就保護到人民啊"},{"start":371.03,"end":396.15,"text":"我們現在正在融合各個委員的版本我們有14個版本然後會產生的部版那這個當然會在我們的討論之中好 我們這邊也要特別的呼籲民眾黨的版本是AI發展與管理條例這部分呢 其實它有它的必要性現在尤其是我們正在運用的這個階段部長你也說到的現在我們是對於產業發展跟運用是由你們來主導對不對"},{"start":398.992,"end":421.741,"text":"產業發展是很多部位一起主導但是現在但是你們在AI的部分AI的也是好幾個部位主導但是我們在一些像軟體、支付啦這些就是我是說你自己在說產業你早上剛剛講的AI的產業的發展跟運用是速發部主導對吧那個我們負責很大一塊啦但是這是跨部會合作的結果這樣"},{"start":422.691,"end":426.853,"text":"好那您這樣子講我們反正就是您是我們會負責其他一塊我們這邊就是要呼籲齁既然執政黨都已經強力的在監督的所有在野黨那我們也發現到說"},{"start":441.381,"end":464.926,"text":"這些部分的確是有要把像這種所謂身為的情緒情緒相關的這些部分只要是有人為部分必須要把它強力強起來說那我們就呼籲執政黨就一起來支持我們的在未來在7月15號在審議人工基本法人工智慧基本法或者是說包括像我們一個整體的人工的智慧的發展跟"},{"start":466.126,"end":472.81,"text":"發展跟管理條例的時候能夠把這個經驗把這樣的一個立法的精神把它放在一起來來加入到加入到說把這樣的一部基本法把它弄好那這邊的話也呼籲到執政黨就是要來起義來歸這部分現在你們都重視到這邊的身衛技術的使用事實上會造成危害特別的就要把它的出處的使用的方式把它標明出來那這部分呢就一起來讓這樣的民眾黨的版本能夠把它能夠送出到這個"},{"start":494.403,"end":496.27,"text":"至少精神上面能夠在基本法當中呈現出來來共創這個盛舉好 那就這樣子 謝謝"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":595,"blocks":[["劉委員書彬：（11時6分）有請黃部長。"],["主席：請部長。"],["劉委員書彬：部長好。數位時代雜誌在今年5月份的報導指出，有越來越多的臺灣年輕人選擇和AI機器人聊天，進行自助式的心理輔導，最重要的原因是因為心理門診難約，費用很高，大概一次就要2,000元到3,000元，可是如果是選擇AI機器人、app來做的話，一個月只要3,200塊錢而已。年輕族群寧願把情緒焦慮交給這樣的app，而不願意尋求專業的心理諮商，但是這有很大的風險在於AI不懂人心，不具備判斷自殺傾向的能力，也無法負責任的轉介。所以我想要請問部長的是，這樣結合心理醫療、療癒的AI新興服務，政府是不是已經在進行監管的討論了？"],["黃部長彥男：對，我們本來就講AI有它的風險，這是其中一個風險，我們這個框架的作法就是先分類，把它有哪些可能的風險講出來，像這個就是衛福部他們要去分級，哪些AI的應用……"],["劉委員書彬：你們有跟衛福部在做分工討論？"],["黃部長彥男：對，將來在作用法裡面，衛福部會對這一塊，例如哪些醫療服務等等可以用AI去做，這要衛福部去制定。除了剛剛講的風險管理以外，另外我們要做一些評測，評測的部分我們可以幫忙。"],["劉委員書彬：甚至就有監測，對不對？就是未來有評測，評估再測量，對不對？"],["黃部長彥男：我們要評估它風險的等級。"],["劉委員書彬：我剛才也聽到部長在講，數發部是負責AI產業的部分，還有AI的風險管理，對吧？針對這個部分特別想要詢問的是，有關於高風險AI的風險分類架構，您過去在教文委員會也有談過這個部分，可是在目前藍綠提出的AI基本法當中，他們都只有一條的條文內容有相關而已，這部分你們是不是可以再做詳細的、更多的規範？除了架構以外，你們是要用行政命令把架構呈現出來嗎？沒有辦法在基本法當中呈現出來概略的分類嗎？"],["黃部長彥男：報告委員，所謂的AI基本法是一個框架，目的是把要注意的事情先講清楚，至於怎麼執行，後面有個作用法，作用法就要把這個東西define出來、定義出來。我們目前的分工是這樣，框架的部分由我們部裡面來制定……"],["劉委員書彬：因為在民眾黨的AI發展跟管理條例當中其實特別有用專章提到這些部分，我想這部分請你可以好好地去做參考，包括像是不是可以採取歐盟的風險分類機制。"],["黃部長彥男：委員，民眾黨的版本比較細，比較像作用法，這個我們再……"],["劉委員書彬：但是架構的部分，我想應該可以給你做一個……"],["黃部長彥男：對，到時候我們希望在立院審查的時候大家會有共識。"],["劉委員書彬：而且全國應該有一致的標準，高風險的情況適用在農業部、在交通部，甚至在衛福部的標準其實是一樣的，他們是用同樣的規則，這是數發部最重要的責任，但雖然是同樣的標準，由各部會去進行分類才是重要的。"],["黃部長彥男：對，比如說到後面各部會去做分級的時候，哪一些應用……"],["劉委員書彬：所以會有一個統一的標準，各個部會去對應，對不對？"],["黃部長彥男：各部會會根據它的業務，例如剛剛講的，心理諮商是要列為哪一級，就由衛福部去決定。"],["劉委員書彬：我們今天也聽到很多執政黨的委員針對這個禮拜黃國昌委員在司法及法制委員會當中播放了一個檢察官在偵訊當中的音檔，他後來有承認說這是一個示範的音檔。因為執政黨的委員特別強調說，如果是屬於像深偽這些部分，甚至是在與人互動的AI，像剛才說的聊天機器人或是有情緒、生物特徵等等辨識的部分，都應該要在事前告知。"],["黃部長彥男：要標示、要告知。"],["劉委員書彬：對的，這部分在民眾黨的版本也特別強調，在我們的第二十七條到第二十九條當中特別強調，像剛才說到的這些，情緒識別跟深偽（Deepfake）的部分通通都有標示義務，要揭露它的真實性來源，這部分部長是不是可以承諾應該把它拉進來？"],["黃部長彥男：我們在後面討論基本法的時候當然會列入考慮，不過這個基本法……"],["劉委員書彬：只是考慮而已啊？剛才已經那麼多執政黨的委員都說應該要加進去了，已經造成問題了。"],["黃部長彥男：不是，剛剛委員講的這個東西在打詐四法就已經入法了，所以可能在基本法還不需要去管到這邊的法律，但是我還是講，這個基本法是一個框架……"],["劉委員書彬：我剛才所說的只要幾個字而已，大概不到20個字就可以放在一個條文裡面，主要是你要揭露它的真實性，若是用深偽或者是有涉及到生物特徵、情緒的部分，都應該要揭示這是人工的，要把它揭示清楚，才可以在第一關就保護到人民。"],["黃部長彥男：我剛才講我們現在正在融合各個委員的版本，共有14個版本，然後會產生部版，這個當然會在我們的討論之中。"],["劉委員書彬：好，我們也要特別呼籲，民眾黨的版本是AI發展及管理條例，其實它有它的必要性，尤其是現在我們正在運用的這個階段。部長，你也說到，現在我們的產業發展跟運用是由數發部來主導，對不對？"],["黃部長彥男：產業發展是很多部會一起主導，但是基本法的推動……"],["劉委員書彬：但是你們在AI的部分……"],["黃部長彥男：AI也是好幾個部會主導，但是我們在一些像軟體、資服等……"],["劉委員書彬：我是說你自己早上講的，AI產業的發展跟運用是數發部主導，對吧？"],["黃部長彥男：我們負責很大一塊，但是這是跨部會合作的結果。"],["劉委員書彬：您這樣子講，跨部會……可是基本法的部分目前行政院是要你們去要提出部版，對不對？"],["黃部長彥男：要推動這部法……"],["劉委員書彬：我們這邊就是要呼籲，既然執政黨都已經強力的在監督在野黨這個部分，我們也發現到，像這種所謂深偽的、情緒相關部分，只要是有人為的部分，必須要把它揭示清楚，那我們就呼籲執政黨一起來支持，未來7月15號在審議人工智慧基本法或者是人工智慧發展及管理條例的時候能夠把這樣的立法精神放入，把這樣的一部基本法弄好。這邊也呼籲執政黨要起義來歸，既然你們都重視深偽技術的使用會造成危害，那麼就應該特別把出處、使用方式標明出來，這部分就一起來支持民眾黨的版本，至少這樣的精神能夠在基本法當中呈現出來，共創勝局，謝謝部長。"],["黃部長彥男：謝謝委員。"],["主席：謝謝。請黃健豪委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":442,"meet_id":"委員會-11-3-23-16","speakers":["許智傑","洪孟楷","李昆澤","林國成","陳素月","林俊憲","徐富癸","邱若華","蔡其昌","葛如鈞","劉書彬","黃健豪","張雅琳","翁曉玲","鍾佳濱","葉元之","魯明哲","廖先翔","游顥","王鴻薇","何欣純","楊瓊瓔"],"page_start":379,"meetingDate":["2025-06-18"],"gazette_id":"1146001","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1146001_00012"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期交通委員會第16次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請數位發展部部長黃彥男就「推動 AI 之產業發展政策」進行專題報告，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1146001_00016"}}}