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89.927, \"score\": 0.878}, {\"word\": \"關\"}, {\"word\": \"廣\"}, {\"word\": \"播\", \"start\": 89.927, \"end\": 90.487, \"score\": 0.873}, {\"word\": \"電\"}, {\"word\": \"視\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 90.487, \"end\": 91.047, \"score\": 0.846}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"續\"}, {\"word\": \"照\", \"start\": 91.047, \"end\": 91.507, \"score\": 0.897}, {\"word\": \"審\"}, {\"word\": \"理\", \"start\": 91.507, \"end\": 91.627, \"score\": 0.794}, {\"word\": \"中\", \"start\": 91.627, \"end\": 92.147, \"score\": 0.952}, {\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 92.147, \"end\": 92.327, \"score\": 0.895}, {\"word\": \"所\", \"start\": 92.327, \"end\": 92.487, \"score\": 0.761}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 92.487, \"end\": 92.688, \"score\": 0.931}, {\"word\": \"除\", \"start\": 92.688, \"end\": 92.968, \"score\": 0.993}, {\"word\": \"非\", \"start\": 92.968, \"end\": 94.468, \"score\": 0.951}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"N\", \"start\": 94.468, \"end\": 94.668, 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\"們\"}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"頻\"}, {\"word\": \"率\", \"start\": 98.749, \"end\": 98.909, \"score\": 0.977}, {\"word\": \"目\", \"start\": 98.909, \"end\": 99.109, \"score\": 0.885}, {\"word\": \"前\", \"start\": 99.109, \"end\": 99.409, \"score\": 0.809}, {\"word\": \"還\"}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 99.409, \"end\": 100.47, \"score\": 0.933}, {\"word\": \"還\"}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 100.47, \"end\": 100.63, \"score\": 0.899}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 100.63, \"end\": 100.85, \"score\": 0.948}, {\"word\": \"持\", \"start\": 100.85, \"end\": 101.17, \"score\": 0.91}, {\"word\": \"續\"}, {\"word\": \"使\", \"start\": 101.17, \"end\": 101.29, \"score\": 0.83}, {\"word\": \"用\", \"start\": 101.29, \"end\": 101.47, \"score\": 0.993}, {\"word\": \"中\", \"start\": 101.47, \"end\": 101.49, \"score\": 0.962}, {\"word\": \"對\"}]}, {\"start\": 102.31, \"end\": 117.121, \"text\": 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\"text\": \"但是他如果電信系統出這個就是我們管理就是我們屬於CI的部分所以剛剛講那個CA目前也不在我們CI裡面就是CA是說他發憑證的這個功能目前被Google取消但是他過去所發的憑證還是有效還是一個加密等級都夠的所以我想說這個不是一個治安事件這是他裡面管理的這個CA的發放的這樣的一個過程裡面出了問題但是並不影響所有拿到他過去拿過他這些憑證的人的\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"但\", \"start\": 456.071, \"end\": 456.491, \"score\": 0.768}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 456.491, \"end\": 456.731, \"score\": 0.824}, {\"word\": \"他\", \"start\": 456.731, \"end\": 456.872, \"score\": 0.857}, {\"word\": \"如\", \"start\": 456.872, \"end\": 456.972, \"score\": 0.849}, {\"word\": \"果\", \"start\": 456.972, \"end\": 457.372, \"score\": 0.887}, {\"word\": \"電\"}, {\"word\": \"信\", \"start\": 457.372, \"end\": 457.592, \"score\": 0.961}, {\"word\": \"系\", \"start\": 457.592, \"end\": 457.912, \"score\": 0.879}, {\"word\": \"統\"}, {\"word\": \"出\", \"start\": 457.912, \"end\": 458.712, \"score\": 0.928}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 458.712, \"end\": 458.833, \"score\": 0.834}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 458.833, \"end\": 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\"謝\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:02,230 --> 00:00:03,316\n好這邊有請那個部長請部長\n\n2\n00:00:11,328 --> 00:00:34,884\n是部長好因為時間的關係所以我待會可能會很快的問幾個問題首先就是因為我今天在電也看到了新聞就是有關於我們的無線電視台的執照其實即將在6月30號就要屆期那麼因為現在無線電視台的這個執照呢它的是執照榜頻率那麼如果但是NCC現在因為委員\n\n3\n00:00:35,945 --> 00:01:02,941\n缺位的問題所以還沒有辦法補齊那麼有看到他們之前前的做法有關於頻道執照的這個借齊但是沒有辦法更換的話他們會用行政指導的方式呢告訴業者說你們就繼續繼續播放那麼現在問題來了就是說是對於無線電視台的頻率的部分核發頻率事數發布的職責那你們接下來會怎麼做\n\n4\n00:01:03,933 --> 00:01:07,861\n因為我們無線電視台總共有16個頻道我們有16個頻道他們的執照都即將在6月30號戒指\n\n5\n00:01:15,783 --> 00:01:41,490\n跟委員報告那就誠如剛剛委員說的我們的這個頻率合法其實是為了提供這個無線電視的服務所以在這部分因為目前這個NCC還在這個審查這個無線電視跟相關廣播電視的這個續照審理中那所以除非這個NCC否準了這個續照申請那不然的話我們這個頻率目前還是還是在持續使用中對\n\n6\n00:01:42,310 --> 00:01:57,121\n那基本上我覺得你們回去要研議就是頻道執照的核發跟頻率的部分是不是可以分開處理各核發各的這個相關的這個許可那麼因為現在ACC他就縱使他說他在審議相關的執照換照的作業可是因為ACC委員會的沒有達到法定人數7人嘛他們現在只有3位嘛有4位都這個行政院也沒提名行政院已經\n\n7\n00:02:11,832 --> 00:02:31,668\n耽擱了一整年將近一整年的時間都沒有提出新的人選本來卓榮他還說在五月的時候就會提出新的這個NCC委員的名單但是到現在為止都沒有看到那麼所以呢接下來就是有關於無線電視有16家無線電視台的執照到期可是他的頻率\n\n8\n00:02:32,909 --> 00:02:52,340\n合法的問題我認為說速發部這邊應該要研議還是說你們其實這個頻率合法就是要盡速的去處理那麼畢竟就是你們之前曾經也對於業者只要是頻率稍微頻譜晚交一些時間回來然後你們就予以很重的處罰\n\n9\n00:02:53,766 --> 00:03:07,904\n頻率我們原則上NCC如果沒有說要繳回我們是不會處理的就是說可以繼續使用所以頻率是已經合劃了他們就頻率也有頻率執照的這個借期的時間嘛好的部長我想你對這方面不是很了解\n\n10\n00:03:08,345 --> 00:03:14,729\n那麼你可能會再回去了解一下就是有關於這個執照的這個問題那接下來我第二個問題要問的就是因為這次中華電信有兩張商用憑證都被撤銷那麼其實從修發部所委託的第三方集合的2024年政府伺服器數位憑證管理中心外部集合報告當中就有提到\n\n11\n00:03:29,318 --> 00:03:34,562\n其實從2023年開始這個中華電信他其實陸陸續續就出了一些狀況那麼甚至有這個陸的CA團隊也都這個在從2023年到2025年然後2024年2023、2024、2025都有吹角說他們應該要趕快的要去把這個相關的憑證作業要處理好那麼因為都沒有這個做好所以這次憑證作業就發生了疏失\n\n12\n00:03:57,618 --> 00:04:13,403\n那麼可能也會對於台灣的現在的公務機關的這個憑證產生的一些影響那請問這個書發部自己有沒有檢討你們現在對於這個中華電信會怎麼處理我們有在跟中華電信就是在溝通那個細節我請那個蘇貞司司長說明一下\n\n13\n00:04:16,385 --> 00:04:33,436\n是跟委員報告就是我們跟中華電信的關係是屬於契約關係所以我們其實對他們的營運狀況我們也會有一個集合的方式那當然剛才委員有提到說之前有發現說他們在管理面上面沒有做得很好這個我們在跟他們的一些會議上面都會都有提醒他們那至於說\n\n14\n00:04:34,136 --> 00:04:47,328\n是謝謝因為您剛剛說到所謂的契約關係我想請教就是到底目前有多少政府機關是使用中華電信的憑證是全部嗎就是我們目前中央的地方政府機關都是使用中華電信的憑證嗎是報告委員\n\n15\n00:04:49,870 --> 00:05:10,203\n目前就是包括中央地方跟國營事業他們總共有大概一萬張的憑證是使用中華電信的好那這個使用中華電信的憑證我們政府每年要花多少錢去訂購這樣子的一個憑證去購買這樣的憑證我們之前在是一年一年的簽約還是說是一次都是簽很多年\n\n16\n00:05:11,042 --> 00:05:25,893\n我們每年都會有一個預約的程序但是因為我們這整個案子是跟其他的一起合在一起所以它其實裡面是算是一個集中的功能算是一個集中採購嘛那所以大概是多少錢您知道嗎大概每年是300到500萬之間\n\n17\n00:05:28,275 --> 00:05:55,169\n300到500萬之間所以這次就說因為發生了中華電信有違約的一個情況所以政府機關應該是要去向中華電信請求損害賠償我希望就是書發部這邊能夠要處理好這件事情要給中華電信一些教訓另外我還再請教就是說這次的事件是不是屬於資通安全管理法當中的所謂的資通安全事件\n\n18\n00:05:57,780 --> 00:06:23,673\n報告委員這個事實上剛剛講就是說這個是他的憑證中心要發憑證的時候從今年8月30號開始不能發憑證但是並不影響到我們已經就是他已經發憑證那個加密等級的時候還夠然後包括我們現在還有雙憑證還有一個TWCA的憑證所以事實上並沒有影響到我們整個政府的治安所以我想我在這邊要提醒部長我覺得你們對於自動安全的\n\n19\n00:06:24,213 --> 00:06:51,273\n是自動安全事件你們的解釋真的非常狹隘喔那麼怎麼能夠講說這次因為憑證的這個失效然後所以好像感覺都對於這個自動安全沒有影響那另外我好接下來我問一下就是在你們自動安全法裡面其實有講到關鍵基礎設施者中華電信是不是屬於在自動安全法裡面所指的自通關鍵基礎設施者\n\n20\n00:06:53,407 --> 00:07:13,580\n他是指的是他的電信系統還是說他是屬於關鍵電信基礎設施者他的那個電信系統是關鍵基礎對CI是屬於CI但是指的是他的那個電信的系統電信系統那麼因為在你們現在第16條裡面其實也有對不起應該是第18條\n\n21\n00:07:16,122 --> 00:07:34,891\n特定非公務機關就是指的關鍵基礎設施因為這段安全事件他有相關的一些這個義務要求違反的話還有處罰所以中華電信在這邊的話中華電信有很多服務比如說像哈密哈密就不是CI所以哈密出問題不屬於治安的我們管理的範疇所以\n\n22\n00:07:36,071 --> 00:08:04,846\n但是他如果電信系統出這個就是我們管理就是我們屬於CI的部分所以剛剛講那個CA目前也不在我們CI裡面就是CA是說他發憑證的這個功能目前被Google取消但是他過去所發的憑證還是有效還是一個加密等級都夠的所以我想說這個不是一個治安事件這是他裡面管理的這個CA的發放的這樣的一個過程裡面出了問題但是並不影響所有拿到他過去拿過他這些憑證的人的\n\n23\n00:08:05,026 --> 00:08:30,232\n有些人不想過去而是講說它現在的確實它造成一些問題對不對但如果說當初不是因為有些機關他們可能及時的去購買第二章的這個憑證那可能就會發生治安的問題那麼我要講的就是說是如果說是今天肅發部對於自動安全管理法的解釋是這麼的狹隘像中華電信更換我們全台灣我們上萬個機關都是使用中華電信的憑證\n\n24\n00:08:31,364 --> 00:08:51,909\n我們雙方機關其實沒問題因為我們都換成雙憑證以後都換成TWCA憑證所以完全沒有影響到未來因為你們之前已經知道它發生這樣的問題嗎我們本來就進行雙變因為任何的所謂的韌性一定都是要有所謂的backup所以這個是在我商量的時候我也很肯定書發布對於這個事情至少說你們已經採取了一個緊急的應變措施\n\n25\n00:08:53,809 --> 00:09:19,939\n但是就是說對於中華電信它是不是屬於我們資通安全管理法裡面所指的資通的這個關鍵基礎設施或者是說你們直接講說它就是關鍵基礎電信關鍵基礎設施也沒有問題因為依照電信管理法裡面的規定本來你們就要去訂定電信關鍵基礎設施的防護管理辦法可是看起來你們都沒有說你們也沒有對於中華電信有任何的處分\n\n26\n00:09:20,439 --> 00:09:49,725\nCI包括就幾個產業啦一個就電信業電信業講的是電信服務但我還是講說中華電信有很多很多服務不是每一個服務都是屬於CI的部分所以我想說這casebycase那如果今天是電信系統出問題或是被入侵那當然是屬於治安事件但是今天這個事情是一個嚴格講起來並不影響政府的治安的這個防護也不影響目前民間在使用現在自動安全管理法裡面處理的不是只有公務機關的治安防護連非特定公務機關也是一樣\n\n27\n00:09:50,425 --> 00:10:12,899\n那我現在要強調的就是講說因為這個事情很重要如果按照部長講的話其實根本以後也不需要去買電信系統透過什麼電信憑證電信系統就是有沒有既然就說我們現在是委託中華電信去處理電信憑證的這件事情那麼當然它很重要否則我們民眾這個常常傳送資料給政府機關他們被竊取啊他們又加密保護\n\n28\n00:10:13,920 --> 00:10:15,342\n這個部分就是為什麼台灣詐騙那麼嚴重我想我這邊我就提示就是部長你們這邊還是要好好去研議我們會有解決這個問題可能先前的\n\n29\n00:10:29,757 --> 00:10:49,469\n法律沒有辦法規定的很完備可是這個部分必須要檢討我們會我們有在督促啦但是我就說針對你們剛剛講中華電信這個部分給我一份你們的檢討報告不過中華電信的事件並不影響我們政府的治安就是這我必須要強調那就麻煩請你們兩個禮拜之內給我一份就是你們對於中華電信的這個憑證失效的這個檢討報告給我發放憑證失效不是憑證沒有失效發放憑證對是是好謝謝\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n2230\t3316\t好 這邊有請那個部長請部長\n11328\t34884\t是部長好因為時間的關係所以我待會可能會很快的問幾個問題首先就是因為我今天在電也看到了新聞就是有關於我們的無線電視台的執照其實即將在6月30號就要屆期那麼因為現在無線電視台的這個執照呢它的是執照榜頻率那麼如果但是NCC現在因為委員\n35945\t62941\t缺位的問題所以還沒有辦法補齊那麼有看到他們之前前的做法有關於頻道執照的這個借齊但是沒有辦法更換的話他們會用行政指導的方式呢告訴業者說你們就繼續繼續播放那麼現在問題來了就是說是對於無線電視台的頻率的部分核發頻率事數發布的職責那你們接下來會怎麼做\n63933\t67861\t因為我們無線電視台總共有16個頻道我們有16個頻道他們的執照都即將在6月30號戒指\n75783\t101490\t跟委員報告 那就誠如剛剛委員說的我們的這個頻率合法其實是為了提供這個無線電視的服務所以在這部分因為目前這個NCC還在這個審查這個無線電視跟相關廣播電視的這個續照審理中那所以除非這個NCC否準了這個續照申請那不然的話我們這個頻率目前還是還是在持續使用中 對\n102310\t117121\t那基本上我覺得你們回去要研議就是頻道執照的核發跟頻率的部分是不是可以分開處理各核發各的這個相關的這個許可那麼因為現在ACC他就縱使他說他在審議相關的執照換照的作業可是因為ACC委員會的沒有達到法定人數7人嘛他們現在只有3位嘛有4位都這個行政院也沒提名行政院已經\n131832\t151668\t耽擱了一整年將近一整年的時間都沒有提出新的人選本來卓榮他還說在五月的時候就會提出新的這個NCC委員的名單但是到現在為止都沒有看到那麼所以呢接下來就是有關於無線電視有16家無線電視台的執照到期可是他的頻率\n152909\t172340\t合法的問題我認為說速發部這邊應該要研議還是說你們其實這個頻率合法就是要盡速的去處理那麼畢竟就是你們之前曾經也對於業者只要是頻率稍微頻譜晚交一些時間回來然後你們就予以很重的處罰\n173766\t187904\t頻率我們原則上NCC如果沒有說要繳回我們是不會處理的就是說可以繼續使用所以頻率是已經合劃了他們就頻率也有頻率執照的這個借期的時間嘛好的部長我想你對這方面不是很了解\n188345\t194729\t那麼你可能會再回去了解一下就是有關於這個執照的這個問題那接下來我第二個問題要問的就是因為這次中華電信有兩張商用憑證都被撤銷那麼其實從修發部所委託的第三方集合的2024年政府伺服器數位憑證管理中心外部集合報告當中就有提到\n209318\t214562\t其實從2023年開始這個中華電信他其實陸陸續續就出了一些狀況那麼甚至有這個陸的CA團隊也都這個在從2023年到2025年然後2024年2023、2024、2025都有吹角說他們應該要趕快的要去把這個相關的憑證作業要處理好那麼因為都沒有這個做好所以這次憑證作業就發生了疏失\n237618\t253403\t那麼可能也會對於台灣的現在的公務機關的這個憑證產生的一些影響那請問這個書發部自己有沒有檢討你們現在對於這個中華電信會怎麼處理我們有在跟中華電信就是在溝通那個細節我請那個蘇貞司司長說明一下\n256385\t273436\t是跟委員報告就是我們跟中華電信的關係是屬於契約關係所以我們其實對他們的營運狀況我們也會有一個集合的方式那當然剛才委員有提到說之前有發現說他們在管理面上面沒有做得很好這個我們在跟他們的一些會議上面都會都有提醒他們那至於說\n274136\t287328\t是 謝謝因為您剛剛說到所謂的契約關係我想請教就是到底目前有多少政府機關是使用中華電信的憑證是全部嗎就是我們目前中央的地方政府機關都是使用中華電信的憑證嗎是 報告委員\n289870\t310203\t目前就是包括中央地方跟國營事業他們總共有大概一萬張的憑證是使用中華電信的好 那這個使用中華電信的憑證我們政府每年要花多少錢去訂購這樣子的一個憑證去購買這樣的憑證我們之前在是一年一年的簽約還是說是一次都是簽很多年\n311042\t325893\t我們每年都會有一個預約的程序但是因為我們這整個案子是跟其他的一起合在一起所以它其實裡面是算是一個集中的功能算是一個集中採購嘛那所以大概是多少錢您知道嗎大概每年是300到500萬之間\n328275\t355169\t300到500萬之間所以這次就說因為發生了中華電信有違約的一個情況所以政府機關應該是要去向中華電信請求損害賠償我希望就是書發部這邊能夠要處理好這件事情要給中華電信一些教訓另外我還再請教就是說這次的事件是不是屬於資通安全管理法當中的所謂的資通安全事件\n357780\t383673\t報告委員 這個事實上剛剛講就是說這個是他的憑證中心要發憑證的時候從今年8月30號開始不能發憑證但是並不影響到我們已經就是他已經發憑證那個加密等級的時候還夠然後包括我們現在還有雙憑證還有一個TWCA的憑證所以事實上並沒有影響到我們整個政府的治安所以我想我在這邊要提醒部長我覺得你們對於自動安全的\n384213\t411273\t是自動安全事件你們的解釋真的非常狹隘喔那麼怎麼能夠講說這次因為憑證的這個失效然後所以好像感覺都對於這個自動安全沒有影響那另外我好接下來我問一下就是在你們自動安全法裡面其實有講到關鍵基礎設施者中華電信是不是屬於在自動安全法裡面所指的自通關鍵基礎設施者\n413407\t433580\t他是指的是他的電信系統還是說他是屬於關鍵電信基礎設施者他的那個電信系統是關鍵基礎對CI是屬於CI但是指的是他的那個電信的系統電信系統那麼因為在你們現在第16條裡面其實也有對不起應該是第18條\n436122\t454891\t特定非公務機關就是指的關鍵基礎設施因為這段安全事件他有相關的一些這個義務要求違反的話還有處罰所以中華電信在這邊的話中華電信有很多服務比如說像哈密哈密就不是CI所以哈密出問題不屬於治安的我們管理的範疇所以\n456071\t484846\t但是他如果電信系統出這個就是我們管理就是我們屬於CI的部分所以剛剛講那個CA目前也不在我們CI裡面就是CA是說他發憑證的這個功能目前被Google取消但是他過去所發的憑證還是有效還是一個加密等級都夠的所以我想說這個不是一個治安事件這是他裡面管理的這個CA的發放的這樣的一個過程裡面出了問題但是並不影響所有拿到他過去拿過他這些憑證的人的\n485026\t510232\t有些人不想過去而是講說它現在的確實它造成一些問題對不對但如果說當初不是因為有些機關他們可能及時的去購買第二章的這個憑證那可能就會發生治安的問題那麼我要講的就是說是如果說是今天肅發部對於自動安全管理法的解釋是這麼的狹隘像中華電信更換我們全台灣我們上萬個機關都是使用中華電信的憑證\n511364\t531909\t我們雙方機關其實沒問題因為我們都換成雙憑證以後都換成TWCA憑證所以完全沒有影響到未來因為你們之前已經知道它發生這樣的問題嗎我們本來就進行雙變因為任何的所謂的韌性一定都是要有所謂的back up所以這個是在我商量的時候我也很肯定書發布對於這個事情至少說你們已經採取了一個緊急的應變措施\n533809\t559939\t但是就是說對於中華電信它是不是屬於我們資通安全管理法裡面所指的資通的這個關鍵基礎設施或者是說你們直接講說它就是關鍵基礎電信關鍵基礎設施也沒有問題因為依照電信管理法裡面的規定本來你們就要去訂定電信關鍵基礎設施的防護管理辦法可是看起來你們都沒有說你們也沒有對於中華電信有任何的處分\n560439\t589725\tCI包括就幾個產業啦一個就電信業電信業講的是電信服務但我還是講說中華電信有很多很多服務不是每一個服務都是屬於CI的部分所以我想說這case by case那如果今天是電信系統出問題或是被入侵那當然是屬於治安事件但是今天這個事情是一個嚴格講起來並不影響政府的治安的這個防護也不影響目前民間在使用現在自動安全管理法裡面處理的不是只有公務機關的治安防護連非特定公務機關也是一樣\n590425\t612899\t那我現在要強調的就是講說因為這個事情很重要如果按照部長講的話其實根本以後也不需要去買電信系統透過什麼電信憑證電信系統就是有沒有既然就說我們現在是委託中華電信去處理電信憑證的這件事情那麼當然它很重要否則我們民眾這個常常傳送資料給政府機關他們被竊取啊他們又加密保護\n613920\t615342\t這個部分就是為什麼台灣詐騙那麼嚴重我想我這邊我就提示就是部長你們這邊還是要好好去研議我們會有解決這個問題可能先前的\n629757\t649469\t法律沒有辦法規定的很完備可是這個部分必須要檢討我們會 我們有在督促啦 但是我就說針對你們剛剛講中華電信這個部分給我一份你們的檢討報告不過中華電信的事件並不影響我們政府的治安就是這我必須要強調那就麻煩請你們兩個禮拜之內給我一份就是你們對於中華電信的這個憑證失效的這個檢討報告給我發放憑證失效 不是憑證沒有失效發放憑證對 是是 好 謝謝\n","txt":"好 這邊有請那個部長請部長\n是部長好因為時間的關係所以我待會可能會很快的問幾個問題首先就是因為我今天在電也看到了新聞就是有關於我們的無線電視台的執照其實即將在6月30號就要屆期那麼因為現在無線電視台的這個執照呢它的是執照榜頻率那麼如果但是NCC現在因為委員\n缺位的問題所以還沒有辦法補齊那麼有看到他們之前前的做法有關於頻道執照的這個借齊但是沒有辦法更換的話他們會用行政指導的方式呢告訴業者說你們就繼續繼續播放那麼現在問題來了就是說是對於無線電視台的頻率的部分核發頻率事數發布的職責那你們接下來會怎麼做\n因為我們無線電視台總共有16個頻道我們有16個頻道他們的執照都即將在6月30號戒指\n跟委員報告 那就誠如剛剛委員說的我們的這個頻率合法其實是為了提供這個無線電視的服務所以在這部分因為目前這個NCC還在這個審查這個無線電視跟相關廣播電視的這個續照審理中那所以除非這個NCC否準了這個續照申請那不然的話我們這個頻率目前還是還是在持續使用中 對\n那基本上我覺得你們回去要研議就是頻道執照的核發跟頻率的部分是不是可以分開處理各核發各的這個相關的這個許可那麼因為現在ACC他就縱使他說他在審議相關的執照換照的作業可是因為ACC委員會的沒有達到法定人數7人嘛他們現在只有3位嘛有4位都這個行政院也沒提名行政院已經\n耽擱了一整年將近一整年的時間都沒有提出新的人選本來卓榮他還說在五月的時候就會提出新的這個NCC委員的名單但是到現在為止都沒有看到那麼所以呢接下來就是有關於無線電視有16家無線電視台的執照到期可是他的頻率\n合法的問題我認為說速發部這邊應該要研議還是說你們其實這個頻率合法就是要盡速的去處理那麼畢竟就是你們之前曾經也對於業者只要是頻率稍微頻譜晚交一些時間回來然後你們就予以很重的處罰\n頻率我們原則上NCC如果沒有說要繳回我們是不會處理的就是說可以繼續使用所以頻率是已經合劃了他們就頻率也有頻率執照的這個借期的時間嘛好的部長我想你對這方面不是很了解\n那麼你可能會再回去了解一下就是有關於這個執照的這個問題那接下來我第二個問題要問的就是因為這次中華電信有兩張商用憑證都被撤銷那麼其實從修發部所委託的第三方集合的2024年政府伺服器數位憑證管理中心外部集合報告當中就有提到\n其實從2023年開始這個中華電信他其實陸陸續續就出了一些狀況那麼甚至有這個陸的CA團隊也都這個在從2023年到2025年然後2024年2023、2024、2025都有吹角說他們應該要趕快的要去把這個相關的憑證作業要處理好那麼因為都沒有這個做好所以這次憑證作業就發生了疏失\n那麼可能也會對於台灣的現在的公務機關的這個憑證產生的一些影響那請問這個書發部自己有沒有檢討你們現在對於這個中華電信會怎麼處理我們有在跟中華電信就是在溝通那個細節我請那個蘇貞司司長說明一下\n是跟委員報告就是我們跟中華電信的關係是屬於契約關係所以我們其實對他們的營運狀況我們也會有一個集合的方式那當然剛才委員有提到說之前有發現說他們在管理面上面沒有做得很好這個我們在跟他們的一些會議上面都會都有提醒他們那至於說\n是 謝謝因為您剛剛說到所謂的契約關係我想請教就是到底目前有多少政府機關是使用中華電信的憑證是全部嗎就是我們目前中央的地方政府機關都是使用中華電信的憑證嗎是 報告委員\n目前就是包括中央地方跟國營事業他們總共有大概一萬張的憑證是使用中華電信的好 那這個使用中華電信的憑證我們政府每年要花多少錢去訂購這樣子的一個憑證去購買這樣的憑證我們之前在是一年一年的簽約還是說是一次都是簽很多年\n我們每年都會有一個預約的程序但是因為我們這整個案子是跟其他的一起合在一起所以它其實裡面是算是一個集中的功能算是一個集中採購嘛那所以大概是多少錢您知道嗎大概每年是300到500萬之間\n300到500萬之間所以這次就說因為發生了中華電信有違約的一個情況所以政府機關應該是要去向中華電信請求損害賠償我希望就是書發部這邊能夠要處理好這件事情要給中華電信一些教訓另外我還再請教就是說這次的事件是不是屬於資通安全管理法當中的所謂的資通安全事件\n報告委員 這個事實上剛剛講就是說這個是他的憑證中心要發憑證的時候從今年8月30號開始不能發憑證但是並不影響到我們已經就是他已經發憑證那個加密等級的時候還夠然後包括我們現在還有雙憑證還有一個TWCA的憑證所以事實上並沒有影響到我們整個政府的治安所以我想我在這邊要提醒部長我覺得你們對於自動安全的\n是自動安全事件你們的解釋真的非常狹隘喔那麼怎麼能夠講說這次因為憑證的這個失效然後所以好像感覺都對於這個自動安全沒有影響那另外我好接下來我問一下就是在你們自動安全法裡面其實有講到關鍵基礎設施者中華電信是不是屬於在自動安全法裡面所指的自通關鍵基礎設施者\n他是指的是他的電信系統還是說他是屬於關鍵電信基礎設施者他的那個電信系統是關鍵基礎對CI是屬於CI但是指的是他的那個電信的系統電信系統那麼因為在你們現在第16條裡面其實也有對不起應該是第18條\n特定非公務機關就是指的關鍵基礎設施因為這段安全事件他有相關的一些這個義務要求違反的話還有處罰所以中華電信在這邊的話中華電信有很多服務比如說像哈密哈密就不是CI所以哈密出問題不屬於治安的我們管理的範疇所以\n但是他如果電信系統出這個就是我們管理就是我們屬於CI的部分所以剛剛講那個CA目前也不在我們CI裡面就是CA是說他發憑證的這個功能目前被Google取消但是他過去所發的憑證還是有效還是一個加密等級都夠的所以我想說這個不是一個治安事件這是他裡面管理的這個CA的發放的這樣的一個過程裡面出了問題但是並不影響所有拿到他過去拿過他這些憑證的人的\n有些人不想過去而是講說它現在的確實它造成一些問題對不對但如果說當初不是因為有些機關他們可能及時的去購買第二章的這個憑證那可能就會發生治安的問題那麼我要講的就是說是如果說是今天肅發部對於自動安全管理法的解釋是這麼的狹隘像中華電信更換我們全台灣我們上萬個機關都是使用中華電信的憑證\n我們雙方機關其實沒問題因為我們都換成雙憑證以後都換成TWCA憑證所以完全沒有影響到未來因為你們之前已經知道它發生這樣的問題嗎我們本來就進行雙變因為任何的所謂的韌性一定都是要有所謂的back up所以這個是在我商量的時候我也很肯定書發布對於這個事情至少說你們已經採取了一個緊急的應變措施\n但是就是說對於中華電信它是不是屬於我們資通安全管理法裡面所指的資通的這個關鍵基礎設施或者是說你們直接講說它就是關鍵基礎電信關鍵基礎設施也沒有問題因為依照電信管理法裡面的規定本來你們就要去訂定電信關鍵基礎設施的防護管理辦法可是看起來你們都沒有說你們也沒有對於中華電信有任何的處分\nCI包括就幾個產業啦一個就電信業電信業講的是電信服務但我還是講說中華電信有很多很多服務不是每一個服務都是屬於CI的部分所以我想說這case by case那如果今天是電信系統出問題或是被入侵那當然是屬於治安事件但是今天這個事情是一個嚴格講起來並不影響政府的治安的這個防護也不影響目前民間在使用現在自動安全管理法裡面處理的不是只有公務機關的治安防護連非特定公務機關也是一樣\n那我現在要強調的就是講說因為這個事情很重要如果按照部長講的話其實根本以後也不需要去買電信系統透過什麼電信憑證電信系統就是有沒有既然就說我們現在是委託中華電信去處理電信憑證的這件事情那麼當然它很重要否則我們民眾這個常常傳送資料給政府機關他們被竊取啊他們又加密保護\n這個部分就是為什麼台灣詐騙那麼嚴重我想我這邊我就提示就是部長你們這邊還是要好好去研議我們會有解決這個問題可能先前的\n法律沒有辦法規定的很完備可是這個部分必須要檢討我們會 我們有在督促啦 但是我就說針對你們剛剛講中華電信這個部分給我一份你們的檢討報告不過中華電信的事件並不影響我們政府的治安就是這我必須要強調那就麻煩請你們兩個禮拜之內給我一份就是你們對於中華電信的這個憑證失效的這個檢討報告給我發放憑證失效 不是憑證沒有失效發放憑證對 是是 好 謝謝\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:02.230 --> 00:03.316\n好這邊有請那個部長請部長\n\n00:11.328 --> 00:34.884\n是部長好因為時間的關係所以我待會可能會很快的問幾個問題首先就是因為我今天在電也看到了新聞就是有關於我們的無線電視台的執照其實即將在6月30號就要屆期那麼因為現在無線電視台的這個執照呢它的是執照榜頻率那麼如果但是NCC現在因為委員\n\n00:35.945 --> 01:02.941\n缺位的問題所以還沒有辦法補齊那麼有看到他們之前前的做法有關於頻道執照的這個借齊但是沒有辦法更換的話他們會用行政指導的方式呢告訴業者說你們就繼續繼續播放那麼現在問題來了就是說是對於無線電視台的頻率的部分核發頻率事數發布的職責那你們接下來會怎麼做\n\n01:03.933 --> 01:07.861\n因為我們無線電視台總共有16個頻道我們有16個頻道他們的執照都即將在6月30號戒指\n\n01:15.783 --> 01:41.490\n跟委員報告那就誠如剛剛委員說的我們的這個頻率合法其實是為了提供這個無線電視的服務所以在這部分因為目前這個NCC還在這個審查這個無線電視跟相關廣播電視的這個續照審理中那所以除非這個NCC否準了這個續照申請那不然的話我們這個頻率目前還是還是在持續使用中對\n\n01:42.310 --> 01:57.121\n那基本上我覺得你們回去要研議就是頻道執照的核發跟頻率的部分是不是可以分開處理各核發各的這個相關的這個許可那麼因為現在ACC他就縱使他說他在審議相關的執照換照的作業可是因為ACC委員會的沒有達到法定人數7人嘛他們現在只有3位嘛有4位都這個行政院也沒提名行政院已經\n\n02:11.832 --> 02:31.668\n耽擱了一整年將近一整年的時間都沒有提出新的人選本來卓榮他還說在五月的時候就會提出新的這個NCC委員的名單但是到現在為止都沒有看到那麼所以呢接下來就是有關於無線電視有16家無線電視台的執照到期可是他的頻率\n\n02:32.909 --> 02:52.340\n合法的問題我認為說速發部這邊應該要研議還是說你們其實這個頻率合法就是要盡速的去處理那麼畢竟就是你們之前曾經也對於業者只要是頻率稍微頻譜晚交一些時間回來然後你們就予以很重的處罰\n\n02:53.766 --> 03:07.904\n頻率我們原則上NCC如果沒有說要繳回我們是不會處理的就是說可以繼續使用所以頻率是已經合劃了他們就頻率也有頻率執照的這個借期的時間嘛好的部長我想你對這方面不是很了解\n\n03:08.345 --> 03:14.729\n那麼你可能會再回去了解一下就是有關於這個執照的這個問題那接下來我第二個問題要問的就是因為這次中華電信有兩張商用憑證都被撤銷那麼其實從修發部所委託的第三方集合的2024年政府伺服器數位憑證管理中心外部集合報告當中就有提到\n\n03:29.318 --> 03:34.562\n其實從2023年開始這個中華電信他其實陸陸續續就出了一些狀況那麼甚至有這個陸的CA團隊也都這個在從2023年到2025年然後2024年2023、2024、2025都有吹角說他們應該要趕快的要去把這個相關的憑證作業要處理好那麼因為都沒有這個做好所以這次憑證作業就發生了疏失\n\n03:57.618 --> 04:13.403\n那麼可能也會對於台灣的現在的公務機關的這個憑證產生的一些影響那請問這個書發部自己有沒有檢討你們現在對於這個中華電信會怎麼處理我們有在跟中華電信就是在溝通那個細節我請那個蘇貞司司長說明一下\n\n04:16.385 --> 04:33.436\n是跟委員報告就是我們跟中華電信的關係是屬於契約關係所以我們其實對他們的營運狀況我們也會有一個集合的方式那當然剛才委員有提到說之前有發現說他們在管理面上面沒有做得很好這個我們在跟他們的一些會議上面都會都有提醒他們那至於說\n\n04:34.136 --> 04:47.328\n是謝謝因為您剛剛說到所謂的契約關係我想請教就是到底目前有多少政府機關是使用中華電信的憑證是全部嗎就是我們目前中央的地方政府機關都是使用中華電信的憑證嗎是報告委員\n\n04:49.870 --> 05:10.203\n目前就是包括中央地方跟國營事業他們總共有大概一萬張的憑證是使用中華電信的好那這個使用中華電信的憑證我們政府每年要花多少錢去訂購這樣子的一個憑證去購買這樣的憑證我們之前在是一年一年的簽約還是說是一次都是簽很多年\n\n05:11.042 --> 05:25.893\n我們每年都會有一個預約的程序但是因為我們這整個案子是跟其他的一起合在一起所以它其實裡面是算是一個集中的功能算是一個集中採購嘛那所以大概是多少錢您知道嗎大概每年是300到500萬之間\n\n05:28.275 --> 05:55.169\n300到500萬之間所以這次就說因為發生了中華電信有違約的一個情況所以政府機關應該是要去向中華電信請求損害賠償我希望就是書發部這邊能夠要處理好這件事情要給中華電信一些教訓另外我還再請教就是說這次的事件是不是屬於資通安全管理法當中的所謂的資通安全事件\n\n05:57.780 --> 06:23.673\n報告委員這個事實上剛剛講就是說這個是他的憑證中心要發憑證的時候從今年8月30號開始不能發憑證但是並不影響到我們已經就是他已經發憑證那個加密等級的時候還夠然後包括我們現在還有雙憑證還有一個TWCA的憑證所以事實上並沒有影響到我們整個政府的治安所以我想我在這邊要提醒部長我覺得你們對於自動安全的\n\n06:24.213 --> 06:51.273\n是自動安全事件你們的解釋真的非常狹隘喔那麼怎麼能夠講說這次因為憑證的這個失效然後所以好像感覺都對於這個自動安全沒有影響那另外我好接下來我問一下就是在你們自動安全法裡面其實有講到關鍵基礎設施者中華電信是不是屬於在自動安全法裡面所指的自通關鍵基礎設施者\n\n06:53.407 --> 07:13.580\n他是指的是他的電信系統還是說他是屬於關鍵電信基礎設施者他的那個電信系統是關鍵基礎對CI是屬於CI但是指的是他的那個電信的系統電信系統那麼因為在你們現在第16條裡面其實也有對不起應該是第18條\n\n07:16.122 --> 07:34.891\n特定非公務機關就是指的關鍵基礎設施因為這段安全事件他有相關的一些這個義務要求違反的話還有處罰所以中華電信在這邊的話中華電信有很多服務比如說像哈密哈密就不是CI所以哈密出問題不屬於治安的我們管理的範疇所以\n\n07:36.071 --> 08:04.846\n但是他如果電信系統出這個就是我們管理就是我們屬於CI的部分所以剛剛講那個CA目前也不在我們CI裡面就是CA是說他發憑證的這個功能目前被Google取消但是他過去所發的憑證還是有效還是一個加密等級都夠的所以我想說這個不是一個治安事件這是他裡面管理的這個CA的發放的這樣的一個過程裡面出了問題但是並不影響所有拿到他過去拿過他這些憑證的人的\n\n08:05.026 --> 08:30.232\n有些人不想過去而是講說它現在的確實它造成一些問題對不對但如果說當初不是因為有些機關他們可能及時的去購買第二章的這個憑證那可能就會發生治安的問題那麼我要講的就是說是如果說是今天肅發部對於自動安全管理法的解釋是這麼的狹隘像中華電信更換我們全台灣我們上萬個機關都是使用中華電信的憑證\n\n08:31.364 --> 08:51.909\n我們雙方機關其實沒問題因為我們都換成雙憑證以後都換成TWCA憑證所以完全沒有影響到未來因為你們之前已經知道它發生這樣的問題嗎我們本來就進行雙變因為任何的所謂的韌性一定都是要有所謂的backup所以這個是在我商量的時候我也很肯定書發布對於這個事情至少說你們已經採取了一個緊急的應變措施\n\n08:53.809 --> 09:19.939\n但是就是說對於中華電信它是不是屬於我們資通安全管理法裡面所指的資通的這個關鍵基礎設施或者是說你們直接講說它就是關鍵基礎電信關鍵基礎設施也沒有問題因為依照電信管理法裡面的規定本來你們就要去訂定電信關鍵基礎設施的防護管理辦法可是看起來你們都沒有說你們也沒有對於中華電信有任何的處分\n\n09:20.439 --> 09:49.725\nCI包括就幾個產業啦一個就電信業電信業講的是電信服務但我還是講說中華電信有很多很多服務不是每一個服務都是屬於CI的部分所以我想說這casebycase那如果今天是電信系統出問題或是被入侵那當然是屬於治安事件但是今天這個事情是一個嚴格講起來並不影響政府的治安的這個防護也不影響目前民間在使用現在自動安全管理法裡面處理的不是只有公務機關的治安防護連非特定公務機關也是一樣\n\n09:50.425 --> 10:12.899\n那我現在要強調的就是講說因為這個事情很重要如果按照部長講的話其實根本以後也不需要去買電信系統透過什麼電信憑證電信系統就是有沒有既然就說我們現在是委託中華電信去處理電信憑證的這件事情那麼當然它很重要否則我們民眾這個常常傳送資料給政府機關他們被竊取啊他們又加密保護\n\n10:13.920 --> 10:15.342\n這個部分就是為什麼台灣詐騙那麼嚴重我想我這邊我就提示就是部長你們這邊還是要好好去研議我們會有解決這個問題可能先前的\n\n10:29.757 --> 10:49.469\n法律沒有辦法規定的很完備可是這個部分必須要檢討我們會我們有在督促啦但是我就說針對你們剛剛講中華電信這個部分給我一份你們的檢討報告不過中華電信的事件並不影響我們政府的治安就是這我必須要強調那就麻煩請你們兩個禮拜之內給我一份就是你們對於中華電信的這個憑證失效的這個檢討報告給我發放憑證失效不是憑證沒有失效發放憑證對是是好謝謝\n\n","segments":[{"start":2.23,"end":3.316,"text":"好 這邊有請那個部長請部長"},{"start":11.328,"end":34.884,"text":"是部長好因為時間的關係所以我待會可能會很快的問幾個問題首先就是因為我今天在電也看到了新聞就是有關於我們的無線電視台的執照其實即將在6月30號就要屆期那麼因為現在無線電視台的這個執照呢它的是執照榜頻率那麼如果但是NCC現在因為委員"},{"start":35.945,"end":62.941,"text":"缺位的問題所以還沒有辦法補齊那麼有看到他們之前前的做法有關於頻道執照的這個借齊但是沒有辦法更換的話他們會用行政指導的方式呢告訴業者說你們就繼續繼續播放那麼現在問題來了就是說是對於無線電視台的頻率的部分核發頻率事數發布的職責那你們接下來會怎麼做"},{"start":63.933,"end":67.861,"text":"因為我們無線電視台總共有16個頻道我們有16個頻道他們的執照都即將在6月30號戒指"},{"start":75.783,"end":101.49,"text":"跟委員報告 那就誠如剛剛委員說的我們的這個頻率合法其實是為了提供這個無線電視的服務所以在這部分因為目前這個NCC還在這個審查這個無線電視跟相關廣播電視的這個續照審理中那所以除非這個NCC否準了這個續照申請那不然的話我們這個頻率目前還是還是在持續使用中 對"},{"start":102.31,"end":117.121,"text":"那基本上我覺得你們回去要研議就是頻道執照的核發跟頻率的部分是不是可以分開處理各核發各的這個相關的這個許可那麼因為現在ACC他就縱使他說他在審議相關的執照換照的作業可是因為ACC委員會的沒有達到法定人數7人嘛他們現在只有3位嘛有4位都這個行政院也沒提名行政院已經"},{"start":131.832,"end":151.668,"text":"耽擱了一整年將近一整年的時間都沒有提出新的人選本來卓榮他還說在五月的時候就會提出新的這個NCC委員的名單但是到現在為止都沒有看到那麼所以呢接下來就是有關於無線電視有16家無線電視台的執照到期可是他的頻率"},{"start":152.909,"end":172.34,"text":"合法的問題我認為說速發部這邊應該要研議還是說你們其實這個頻率合法就是要盡速的去處理那麼畢竟就是你們之前曾經也對於業者只要是頻率稍微頻譜晚交一些時間回來然後你們就予以很重的處罰"},{"start":173.766,"end":187.904,"text":"頻率我們原則上NCC如果沒有說要繳回我們是不會處理的就是說可以繼續使用所以頻率是已經合劃了他們就頻率也有頻率執照的這個借期的時間嘛好的部長我想你對這方面不是很了解"},{"start":188.345,"end":194.729,"text":"那麼你可能會再回去了解一下就是有關於這個執照的這個問題那接下來我第二個問題要問的就是因為這次中華電信有兩張商用憑證都被撤銷那麼其實從修發部所委託的第三方集合的2024年政府伺服器數位憑證管理中心外部集合報告當中就有提到"},{"start":209.318,"end":214.562,"text":"其實從2023年開始這個中華電信他其實陸陸續續就出了一些狀況那麼甚至有這個陸的CA團隊也都這個在從2023年到2025年然後2024年2023、2024、2025都有吹角說他們應該要趕快的要去把這個相關的憑證作業要處理好那麼因為都沒有這個做好所以這次憑證作業就發生了疏失"},{"start":237.618,"end":253.403,"text":"那麼可能也會對於台灣的現在的公務機關的這個憑證產生的一些影響那請問這個書發部自己有沒有檢討你們現在對於這個中華電信會怎麼處理我們有在跟中華電信就是在溝通那個細節我請那個蘇貞司司長說明一下"},{"start":256.385,"end":273.436,"text":"是跟委員報告就是我們跟中華電信的關係是屬於契約關係所以我們其實對他們的營運狀況我們也會有一個集合的方式那當然剛才委員有提到說之前有發現說他們在管理面上面沒有做得很好這個我們在跟他們的一些會議上面都會都有提醒他們那至於說"},{"start":274.136,"end":287.328,"text":"是 謝謝因為您剛剛說到所謂的契約關係我想請教就是到底目前有多少政府機關是使用中華電信的憑證是全部嗎就是我們目前中央的地方政府機關都是使用中華電信的憑證嗎是 報告委員"},{"start":289.87,"end":310.203,"text":"目前就是包括中央地方跟國營事業他們總共有大概一萬張的憑證是使用中華電信的好 那這個使用中華電信的憑證我們政府每年要花多少錢去訂購這樣子的一個憑證去購買這樣的憑證我們之前在是一年一年的簽約還是說是一次都是簽很多年"},{"start":311.042,"end":325.893,"text":"我們每年都會有一個預約的程序但是因為我們這整個案子是跟其他的一起合在一起所以它其實裡面是算是一個集中的功能算是一個集中採購嘛那所以大概是多少錢您知道嗎大概每年是300到500萬之間"},{"start":328.275,"end":355.169,"text":"300到500萬之間所以這次就說因為發生了中華電信有違約的一個情況所以政府機關應該是要去向中華電信請求損害賠償我希望就是書發部這邊能夠要處理好這件事情要給中華電信一些教訓另外我還再請教就是說這次的事件是不是屬於資通安全管理法當中的所謂的資通安全事件"},{"start":357.78,"end":383.673,"text":"報告委員 這個事實上剛剛講就是說這個是他的憑證中心要發憑證的時候從今年8月30號開始不能發憑證但是並不影響到我們已經就是他已經發憑證那個加密等級的時候還夠然後包括我們現在還有雙憑證還有一個TWCA的憑證所以事實上並沒有影響到我們整個政府的治安所以我想我在這邊要提醒部長我覺得你們對於自動安全的"},{"start":384.213,"end":411.273,"text":"是自動安全事件你們的解釋真的非常狹隘喔那麼怎麼能夠講說這次因為憑證的這個失效然後所以好像感覺都對於這個自動安全沒有影響那另外我好接下來我問一下就是在你們自動安全法裡面其實有講到關鍵基礎設施者中華電信是不是屬於在自動安全法裡面所指的自通關鍵基礎設施者"},{"start":413.407,"end":433.58,"text":"他是指的是他的電信系統還是說他是屬於關鍵電信基礎設施者他的那個電信系統是關鍵基礎對CI是屬於CI但是指的是他的那個電信的系統電信系統那麼因為在你們現在第16條裡面其實也有對不起應該是第18條"},{"start":436.122,"end":454.891,"text":"特定非公務機關就是指的關鍵基礎設施因為這段安全事件他有相關的一些這個義務要求違反的話還有處罰所以中華電信在這邊的話中華電信有很多服務比如說像哈密哈密就不是CI所以哈密出問題不屬於治安的我們管理的範疇所以"},{"start":456.071,"end":484.846,"text":"但是他如果電信系統出這個就是我們管理就是我們屬於CI的部分所以剛剛講那個CA目前也不在我們CI裡面就是CA是說他發憑證的這個功能目前被Google取消但是他過去所發的憑證還是有效還是一個加密等級都夠的所以我想說這個不是一個治安事件這是他裡面管理的這個CA的發放的這樣的一個過程裡面出了問題但是並不影響所有拿到他過去拿過他這些憑證的人的"},{"start":485.026,"end":510.232,"text":"有些人不想過去而是講說它現在的確實它造成一些問題對不對但如果說當初不是因為有些機關他們可能及時的去購買第二章的這個憑證那可能就會發生治安的問題那麼我要講的就是說是如果說是今天肅發部對於自動安全管理法的解釋是這麼的狹隘像中華電信更換我們全台灣我們上萬個機關都是使用中華電信的憑證"},{"start":511.364,"end":531.909,"text":"我們雙方機關其實沒問題因為我們都換成雙憑證以後都換成TWCA憑證所以完全沒有影響到未來因為你們之前已經知道它發生這樣的問題嗎我們本來就進行雙變因為任何的所謂的韌性一定都是要有所謂的back up所以這個是在我商量的時候我也很肯定書發布對於這個事情至少說你們已經採取了一個緊急的應變措施"},{"start":533.809,"end":559.939,"text":"但是就是說對於中華電信它是不是屬於我們資通安全管理法裡面所指的資通的這個關鍵基礎設施或者是說你們直接講說它就是關鍵基礎電信關鍵基礎設施也沒有問題因為依照電信管理法裡面的規定本來你們就要去訂定電信關鍵基礎設施的防護管理辦法可是看起來你們都沒有說你們也沒有對於中華電信有任何的處分"},{"start":560.439,"end":589.725,"text":"CI包括就幾個產業啦一個就電信業電信業講的是電信服務但我還是講說中華電信有很多很多服務不是每一個服務都是屬於CI的部分所以我想說這case by case那如果今天是電信系統出問題或是被入侵那當然是屬於治安事件但是今天這個事情是一個嚴格講起來並不影響政府的治安的這個防護也不影響目前民間在使用現在自動安全管理法裡面處理的不是只有公務機關的治安防護連非特定公務機關也是一樣"},{"start":590.425,"end":612.899,"text":"那我現在要強調的就是講說因為這個事情很重要如果按照部長講的話其實根本以後也不需要去買電信系統透過什麼電信憑證電信系統就是有沒有既然就說我們現在是委託中華電信去處理電信憑證的這件事情那麼當然它很重要否則我們民眾這個常常傳送資料給政府機關他們被竊取啊他們又加密保護"},{"start":613.92,"end":615.342,"text":"這個部分就是為什麼台灣詐騙那麼嚴重我想我這邊我就提示就是部長你們這邊還是要好好去研議我們會有解決這個問題可能先前的"},{"start":629.757,"end":649.469,"text":"法律沒有辦法規定的很完備可是這個部分必須要檢討我們會 我們有在督促啦 但是我就說針對你們剛剛講中華電信這個部分給我一份你們的檢討報告不過中華電信的事件並不影響我們政府的治安就是這我必須要強調那就麻煩請你們兩個禮拜之內給我一份就是你們對於中華電信的這個憑證失效的這個檢討報告給我發放憑證失效 不是憑證沒有失效發放憑證對 是是 好 謝謝"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":692,"blocks":[["翁委員曉玲：（11時33分）這邊有請黃部長。"],["主席：請部長。"],["黃部長彥男：委員好。"],["翁委員曉玲：部長好。因為時間的關係，所以我待會可能會很快地問幾個問題，首先就是我今天看到新聞，就是有關於無線電視臺的執照即將在6月30號就要屆期，因為現在無線電視臺的執照是執照綁頻率，但是因為現在NCC委員缺位的問題，還沒有辦法補齊，有看到他們先前的作法，遇到有關頻道執照屆期卻無法辦法更換的狀況，他們會用行政指導的方式告訴業者說你們就繼續播放，現在問題來了，對於無線電視臺核發頻率的部分是數發部的職責，你們接下來會怎麼做？"],["黃部長彥男：我們是不是請資源司來做說明？"],["翁委員曉玲：因為我們的無線電視臺總共有16個頻道，他們的執照都即將在6月30號屆期。"],["曾司長文方：跟委員報告，誠如剛剛委員說的，有關頻率的核發其實是為了提供無線電視的服務，所以在這部分，因為目前NCC還在審查無線電視跟相關廣播電視的續照審理，所以除非NCC否准續照申請，不然的話，這個頻率目前還是在持續使用中。"],["翁委員曉玲：我覺得你們回去要研議，就是頻道執照的核發跟頻率的部分是不是可以分開處理，各核發各的相關許可？縱使現在NCC在審議相關執照、換照的作業，可是NCC委員會沒有達到法定人數7人，他們現在只有3位，另外4位行政院也沒提名，行政院已經耽擱了一整年，將近一整年的時間都沒有提出新的人選，本來卓榮泰還說5月的時候就會提出新的NCC委員名單，但是到現在為止都沒有看到！因此接下來就會發生16家無線電視臺執照到期的頻率核發問題，我認為數發部這邊應該要研議，關於頻率核發你們要儘速去處理，畢竟你們之前也曾經針對業者，只要頻率、頻譜稍微晚一些交回來，你們就給予很重的處罰！"],["黃部長彥男：沒有，NCC如果沒有說要繳回頻率，我們原則上不會處理，就是可以繼續使用，所以頻率是已經核發了就……"],["翁委員曉玲：頻率也有頻率執照屆期的時間，部長，我想你對這方面不是很了解，你可能再回去了解一下關於執照的問題。","接下來，我第二個問題要問的就是，這次中華電信有2張商用憑證都被撤銷，在數發部委託第三方稽核的「2024年政府伺服器數位憑證管理中心外部稽核報告」當中就有提到，其實從2023年開始中華電信就陸陸續續出了一些狀況，甚至Root CA團隊從2023年到2025年，歷經2023、2024、2025都有催繳，請他們應該要趕快去把相關的憑證作業處理好，因為都沒有做好，所以這次憑證作業就發生了疏失，可能也會對於臺灣現在公務機關的憑證產生一些影響。請問數發部自己有沒有檢討？你們現在對於中華電信會怎麼處理？"],["黃部長彥男：我們有在跟中華電信溝通，細節部分我請數政司司長說明一下。"],["王司長誠明：跟委員報告，我們跟中華電信的關係是屬於契約關係，所以我們對他們的營運狀況也會有一個稽核方式。剛才委員有提到，之前有發現他們在管理面上沒有做得很好，這部分我們在跟他們的一些會議上面都有提醒他們。至於……"],["翁委員曉玲：謝謝，您剛剛說到所謂的契約關係，我想請教到底目前有多少政府機關使用中華電信的憑證，是全部嗎？目前中央、地方政府機關都是使用中華電信的憑證嗎？"],["王司長誠明：報告委員，目前包括中央、地方跟國營事業，總共大概有1萬張的憑證是使用中華電信的，之前……"],["翁委員曉玲：關於使用中華電信的憑證，我們政府每年要花多少錢去購買這樣的憑證？是一年一年簽約還是一次都簽很多年？"],["王司長誠明：我們每年都會有一個議約的程序，但是我們這整個案子是跟其他的合在一起，所以這其實算是裡面其中一個功能而已。"],["翁委員曉玲：算是一個集中採購，所以大概是多少錢，您知道嗎？"],["王司長誠明：每年大概是300到500萬之間。"],["翁委員曉玲：這次因為發生了中華電信違約的情況，所以政府機關應該要向中華電信請求損害賠償，我希望數發部這邊要處理好這件事情、要給中華電信一些教訓。","另外我還要再請教，這次的事件是不是屬於資通安全管理法當中所謂的資通安全事件？"],["黃部長彥男：報告委員，如同剛剛講的，這個是他的憑證中心從今年8月30號開始不能發憑證，但是並不影響到我們這些已經發憑證的，那個加密等級都還夠，包括我們現在還有雙憑證、還有一個TWCA的憑證，所以事實上並沒有影響到我們整個政府的資安。"],["翁委員曉玲：我在這邊要提醒部長，我覺得你們對於資通安全事件的解釋真的非常狹隘，怎麼能夠說這次憑證失效好像對於資通安全都沒有影響！","接下來我問一下，在你們的資通安全法裡面其實有講到關鍵基礎設施者，中華電信是不是屬於資通安全法裡面所指的資通關鍵基礎設施者？"],["黃部長彥男：它指的是電信系統是關鍵……"],["翁委員曉玲：還是它屬於關鍵電信基礎設施者？"],["黃部長彥男：它的電信系統是關鍵基礎……對，是屬於CI，但指的是它的電信系統。"],["翁委員曉玲：因為在第十八條裡面，特定非公務機關就是指關鍵基礎設施，針對資通安全事件有相關的義務要求，違反的話還有處罰，所以中華電信在這邊是不是屬於……"],["黃部長彥男：中華電信有很多服務，比如說Hami就不是CI，所以Hami出問題不屬於資安的管理範疇，但電信系統就是我們管理的、屬於CI的部分，所以剛剛講的那個CA目前也不在我們的CI裡面，CA是它發憑證的這個功能、目前被Google取消，但是它過去所發憑證還是有效、加密等級還是夠的，所以我說這不是一個資安事件，這是他們內部管理CA發放的過程當中出了問題，但是並不影響所有過去拿過這些憑證的人的資安系統。"],["翁委員曉玲：我們現在不講過去，而是講它現在確實造成一些問題，對不對？當初如果不是有些機關即時去購買第二張的憑證，可能就會發生資安的問題。我要講的是，如果今天數發部對於資通安全管理法的解釋是這麼的狹隘，像中華電信……更何況我們全臺灣上萬個機關都是使用中華電信的憑證！"],["黃部長彥男：我們中央機關其實沒問題，因為我們換成雙憑證以後都換成TWCA憑證，所以完全沒有影響到未來……"],["翁委員曉玲：是因為你們之前已經知道他發生這樣的問題嗎？"],["黃部長彥男：我們本來就進行雙憑證，因為任何韌性一定都是要有所謂的backup，所以這個是在我上任之後……"],["翁委員曉玲：我也很肯定數發部對於這個事情至少已經採取了一個緊急的應變措施，但是對於中華電信是不是屬於我們資通安全管理法裡面所指的資通關鍵基礎設施，或者你們直接講說，他就是電信關鍵基礎設施也沒有問題，因為依照電信管理法裡面的規定，你們本來就要去訂定這些關關鍵基礎設施的防護管理辦法，可是看起來你們都沒有做，你們也沒有對於中華電信有任何的處罰！"],["黃部長彥男：CI包括幾個產業，一個就電信業，電信業講的是電信服務，但我還是要說，中華電信有很多、很多服務，不是每一個服務都是屬於CI的部分，所以我想這是case by case，如果今天是電信系統出問題或是被入侵，當然是屬於資安事件，但是今天這件事情嚴格講起來並不影響政府資安的防護，也不影響目前民間的使用。"],["翁委員曉玲：現在資通安全管理法裡面處理的不是只有公務機關的資安防護，連非特定公務機關也是一樣。"],["黃部長彥男：對，CI就包括……"],["翁委員曉玲：我現在要強調的就是，因為這個事情很重要，如果按照部長講的話，其實以後根本也不需要去買或通過什麼的電信憑證……"],["黃部長彥男：沒有，如果是電信系統就是我們要……"],["翁委員曉玲：既然我們現在是委託中華電信去處理電信憑證這件事情，這當然很重要，否則我們民眾常常傳送資料給政府機關可能會被竊取，因為沒有加密保護，這個部分就是為什麼臺灣詐騙情況這麼嚴重！"],["黃部長彥男：報告委員，CA……"],["翁委員曉玲：我這邊就提示部長，你們還是要好好去研議，好不好……"],["黃部長彥男：我們會有solution去處理。"],["翁委員曉玲：有關於資通安全事件，像中華電信這個問題可能先前的法律沒有辦法規定的很完備，可是這個部分必須要檢討。"],["黃部長彥男：我們有在督促，但是我就說……"],["翁委員曉玲：我也希望你們針對剛剛講的中華電信的部分給我一份檢討報告。"],["黃部長彥男：好，不過中華電信的事件並不影響政府的資安，這我必須強調，謝謝。"],["翁委員曉玲：好，那就麻煩你們兩個禮拜之內給我一份對於中華電信憑證失效的檢討報告。"],["黃部長彥男：發放憑證失效，不是憑證，憑證沒有失效。"],["翁委員曉玲：對，發放憑證，是！"],["黃部長彥男：好。"],["主席：因為後面還很多人，我想時間到就隔1分鐘再響鈴一次。","請鍾佳濱委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":442,"meet_id":"委員會-11-3-23-16","speakers":["許智傑","洪孟楷","李昆澤","林國成","陳素月","林俊憲","徐富癸","邱若華","蔡其昌","葛如鈞","劉書彬","黃健豪","張雅琳","翁曉玲","鍾佳濱","葉元之","魯明哲","廖先翔","游顥","王鴻薇","何欣純","楊瓊瓔"],"page_start":379,"meetingDate":["2025-06-18"],"gazette_id":"1146001","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1146001_00012"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期交通委員會第16次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請數位發展部部長黃彥男就「推動 AI 之產業發展政策」進行專題報告，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1146001_00016"}}}