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418.885, \"end\": 418.985, \"score\": 0.898}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 418.985, \"end\": 419.266, \"score\": 0.887}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 419.266, \"end\": 420.106, \"score\": 0.926}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 420.106, \"end\": 420.126, \"score\": 0.097}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:03,257 --> 00:00:12,965\n主席在場原先列席了政局院首長官員會長公眾夥伴媒體記者女士先生那麼有請部長請部長主席你叫了我很快速度加速不好意思\n\n2\n00:00:18,671 --> 00:00:47,570\n來部長好你不用急來你看看最近有沒有這兩個月有人用吉卜力風格的在傳貼圖有沒有看到有沒有看過這個呢吉卜力在日本他們的一些著作一些創作人他們抗議說你把這個吉卜力畫風可以不受著作權保護嗎結果日本政府說的確他認為他們的著作權是單純的創意或風格本身不受著作權保護請問部長為什麼日本政府要將AI生成圖獻出他的著作權保護呢\n\n3\n00:00:49,330 --> 00:01:13,275\n這個委員提這個確實是一個問題這個就是各國的法律因為這個確實在AI的訓練裡面這個他們需要塗料庫嘛對不對他需要更多的塗料庫如果這些AI生成公司都把錢花在取得著作權的這些塗料上面那他們就沒有餘力去買超級電腦運算對不對好那我們來看一下所以呢我們像AI新十大建設有提到AI主權AI\n\n4\n00:01:14,275 --> 00:01:36,790\n速發部說主權AI訓練語料庫對不對所以速發部目前在幫忙打造這樣的一個AI的訓練語料庫嘛對所以你們是不是也認同或者說覺得日本的做法的確有它的必要性我們要發展AI主權AI我們也事實上呢對於這些語料庫的建立訓練語料庫的建立也要國家來投資\n\n5\n00:01:37,911 --> 00:02:03,200\n對我們上次蘇發部就是我們那個資料創新司司長就是在負責推動這一塊好很好那我們往下看但是相對的我們除了這些之外呢也提到了我們的預告的這個利用發展促進條例當中也得到公務員我們也避免他除非是重大過失我們也不希望他因為要去承辦這個業務而侵犯到包括著作權等其他的這個爭議是不是這樣對\n\n6\n00:02:04,520 --> 00:02:24,348\n好但是但是我們要另外一面平衡往下看但是呢關於想下一頁我們的個資保護啊其實呢健保法當中呢個人可以請求停止使用但是我們的條例預告當中呢我們是採取促進個人在的保護措施或機制民眾可以請求停止嗎這個來這裡說明一下我們在進語料資料庫的時候訓練資料庫的時候\n\n7\n00:02:32,122 --> 00:02:57,414\n跟委員報告我們在這個促進資料創新利用發展條例裡面的這個前應該是第四條就有規定是說在資料創新的過程當中仍然要符合各自保護所以也要符合爆發健保法的規定對要有各自保護謝謝那部長今天我想我們再說明一下我們國家要發展這個主權AI要生成是AI我們有很多的法令法制度要建立其他國家我們也可以參考往下看但是另外我要談另外一個就是打詐\n\n8\n00:02:58,454 --> 00:03:19,529\n經常我每次來請教你都跟打造有關目前我們有一個第三方支付的量能登錄制度部長你認為這個量能登記制度還有效嗎那個當然有精進的空間啦不過目前在管理上是有它的效果那有沒有制定出相關的監管法規呢目前只有登錄制度喔監管法規有沒有監管法規來說明一下\n\n9\n00:03:20,475 --> 00:03:48,298\n我們洗房法向下有好幾個執法所以我們有根據洗房法上面去定對所以你們都是根據洗房法來來做控制但是沒有自己訂立一個監管法規有沒有就是洗房法嘛就用洗房法而已嘛好我們看一下那洗房法什麼問題但是你來看一下第三方之戶有一個公司洗錢50億啊他是大規模的惡性的倒閉但是呢我們我們來看一下監管會裁罰多少\n\n10\n00:03:51,587 --> 00:04:14,219\n金管會裁罰多少這個案例金管會裁罰來我要告訴你我來自財政委員會金管會對於這些裁罰都會在當日後就公佈那現在你看我現在問你也不知道我也不知道啊到底裁罰了沒有裁罰多少知不知道裁罰了但是裁罰多少30萬30萬待會我有問到的啦但是有沒有公佈沒有\n\n11\n00:04:15,563 --> 00:04:39,808\n有公佈嗎你們有沒有一個明白的公佈說明辦法讓我們外界社會可以理解到這些涉及到詐騙的他有被你們裁罰部長是不是你們要加強這個部分我們有在媒體群組公佈我的意思是說你們什麼時候公佈其實是你們的行政裁量但是如果你們定出了一個辦法民眾就可以知道說我們可以定時的去看你們有沒有依法裁法是不是這樣子\n\n12\n00:04:42,669 --> 00:05:09,415\n部長知道意思沒有我們要比照金管會把你們的重大裁罰要要求一個約束自我約束定期公告我們要看因為時間的關係另外剛剛說什麼你們說罰了30萬你們是根據洗房法但是我們來看一下洗錢防治法裡面如果是機構的是50萬到1000萬個人的是5萬到500萬我看你們的等級是把它當作個人在罰不是把它當作機構在罰部長會不會裁罰太輕\n\n13\n00:05:12,471 --> 00:05:33,860\n三十萬啊洗髮法是機構是五十到一千個人是五到五百看起來你們是用個人的尺度去裁罰請問這個地方洗錢的難道是個個人嗎是不是你們在未來裁罰的時候要考慮一下因為他是屬於第三方支付是屬於金融機構喔他是被認定是屬於金融機構喔\n\n14\n00:05:36,971 --> 00:05:55,379\n現在是因為負責人好像被羈押了所以負責人被羈押是一件事情我說你們是用機構的尺度去裁罰還是用個人的尺度去裁罰部長你們未來要把這個區分出來好不好把家強打詐最後一個問題我們說為落地平台提報法律代表請問這個法律代表能負責什麼法律責任\n\n15\n00:05:57,110 --> 00:06:13,170\n法律代表就是給你一個人頭給你看啊我們就是有要裁罰或者是要那個下架就會經過那他找個人頭他能負什麼法律責任他如果沒有照我們的要求出我們就開始開罰裁罰開罰那個人頭就是那個公司代表\n\n16\n00:06:14,171 --> 00:06:36,531\n他就是法律代表嘛所以說法律代表的一個承擔能力呢還太弱啦我們再往下看所以最後最後無廣告業務的平台沒有納入打詐專法現在是有廣告業務的才納入打詐專法嗎目前是那未來呢未來可不可以把這些無廣告業務的想辦法納進打詐專法來這個要修法嗎要修法有沒有打算修法\n\n17\n00:06:37,887 --> 00:07:00,126\n不然我們來推動來最後的結論所以呢速發部應該完善第三方支付的業務監管法規目前沒有違法的重大應該在官網上依據辦法來公告另外呢對未落地際未提供廣告服務的平台要阻詐是不是這個阻寫錯了阻止了阻請一個月內提出書面報告好不好好謝謝\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n3257\t12965\t主席在場原先列席了政局院首長官員會長公眾夥伴媒體記者女士先生那麼有請部長請部長主席你叫了我很快速度加速不好意思\n18671\t47570\t來 部長好 你不用急來 你看看最近有沒有這兩個月有人用吉卜力風格的在傳貼圖有沒有看到 有沒有看過這個呢吉卜力在日本他們的一些著作一些創作人他們抗議說你把這個吉卜力畫風可以不受著作權保護嗎結果日本政府說的確他認為他們的著作權是單純的創意或風格本身不受著作權保護請問部長為什麼日本政府要將AI生成圖獻出他的著作權保護呢\n49330\t73275\t這個委員提這個確實是一個問題這個就是各國的法律因為這個確實在AI的訓練裡面這個他們需要塗料庫嘛對不對他需要更多的塗料庫如果這些AI生成公司都把錢花在取得著作權的這些塗料上面那他們就沒有餘力去買超級電腦運算對不對好那我們來看一下所以呢我們像AI新十大建設有提到AI主權AI\n74275\t96790\t速發部說主權AI訓練語料庫對不對所以速發部目前在幫忙打造這樣的一個AI的訓練語料庫嘛對所以你們是不是也認同或者說覺得日本的做法的確有它的必要性我們要發展AI主權AI我們也事實上呢對於這些語料庫的建立訓練語料庫的建立也要國家來投資\n97911\t123200\t對 我們上次蘇發部就是我們那個資料創新司司長就是在負責推動這一塊好 很好 那我們往下看但是相對的我們除了這些之外呢也提到了我們的預告的這個利用發展促進條例當中也得到公務員我們也避免他除非是重大過失我們也不希望他因為要去承辦這個業務而侵犯到包括著作權等其他的這個爭議是不是這樣對\n124520\t144348\t好 但是但是我們要另外一面平衡往下看但是呢關於想下一頁我們的個資保護啊其實呢健保法當中呢個人可以請求停止使用但是我們的條例預告當中呢我們是採取促進個人在的保護措施或機制民眾可以請求停止嗎這個 來這裡說明一下我們在進語料資料庫的時候訓練資料庫的時候\n152122\t177414\t跟委員報告我們在這個促進資料創新利用發展條例裡面的這個前應該是第四條就有規定是說在資料創新的過程當中仍然要符合各自保護所以也要符合爆發健保法的規定對要有各自保護謝謝那部長今天我想我們再說明一下我們國家要發展這個主權AI要生成是AI我們有很多的法令法制度要建立其他國家我們也可以參考往下看但是另外我要談另外一個就是打詐\n178454\t199529\t經常我每次來請教你都跟打造有關目前我們有一個第三方支付的量能登錄制度部長你認為這個量能登記制度還有效嗎那個當然有精進的空間啦不過目前在管理上是有它的效果那有沒有制定出相關的監管法規呢目前只有登錄制度喔監管法規有沒有監管法規來說明一下\n200475\t228298\t我們洗房法向下有好幾個執法所以我們有根據洗房法上面去定對所以你們都是根據洗房法來來做控制但是沒有自己訂立一個監管法規有沒有就是洗房法嘛就用洗房法而已嘛好我們看一下那洗房法什麼問題但是你來看一下第三方之戶有一個公司洗錢50億啊他是大規模的惡性的倒閉但是呢我們我們來看一下監管會裁罰多少\n231587\t254219\t金管會裁罰多少 這個案例金管會裁罰來 我要告訴你我來自財政委員會金管會對於這些裁罰都會在當日後就公佈那現在你看我現在問你也不知道 我也不知道啊到底裁罰了沒有 裁罰多少 知不知道裁罰了 但是裁罰多少30萬30萬 待會我有問到的啦但是有沒有公佈 沒有\n255563\t279808\t有公佈嗎 你們有沒有一個明白的公佈說明辦法讓我們外界社會可以理解到這些涉及到詐騙的 他有被你們裁罰部長 是不是你們要加強這個部分我們有在媒體群組公佈 我的意思是說你們什麼時候公佈 其實是你們的行政裁量但是如果你們定出了一個辦法 民眾就可以知道說我們可以定時的去看你們有沒有依法裁法 是不是這樣子\n282669\t309415\t部長知道意思沒有 我們要比照金管會把你們的重大裁罰要要求一個約束 自我約束定期公告我們要看因為時間的關係另外剛剛說什麼 你們說罰了30萬你們是根據洗房法但是我們來看一下洗錢防治法裡面如果是機構的是50萬到1000萬個人的是5萬到500萬我看你們的等級是把它當作個人在罰不是把它當作機構在罰部長會不會裁罰太輕\n312471\t333860\t三十萬啊洗髮法是機構是五十到一千個人是五到五百看起來你們是用個人的尺度去裁罰請問這個地方洗錢的難道是個個人嗎是不是你們在未來裁罰的時候要考慮一下因為他是屬於第三方支付是屬於金融機構喔他是被認定是屬於金融機構喔\n336971\t355379\t現在是因為負責人好像被羈押了所以負責人被羈押是一件事情我說你們是用機構的尺度去裁罰還是用個人的尺度去裁罰部長你們未來要把這個區分出來好不好把家強打詐最後一個問題我們說為落地平台提報法律代表請問這個法律代表能負責什麼法律責任\n357110\t373170\t法律代表就是給你一個人頭給你看啊我們就是有要裁罰或者是要那個下架就會經過那他找個人頭他能負什麼法律責任他如果沒有照我們的要求出我們就開始開罰裁罰開罰那個人頭就是那個公司代表\n374171\t396531\t他就是法律代表嘛所以說法律代表的一個承擔能力呢還太弱啦我們再往下看所以最後 最後無廣告業務的平台沒有納入打詐專法現在是有廣告業務的才納入打詐專法嗎目前是那未來呢 未來可不可以把這些無廣告業務的想辦法納進打詐專法來這個要修法嗎要修法 有沒有打算修法\n397887\t420126\t不然我們來推動來 最後的結論所以呢 速發部應該完善第三方支付的業務監管法規 目前沒有違法的重大 應該在官網上依據辦法來公告另外呢 對未落地際未提供廣告服務的平台要阻詐是不是這個阻寫錯了阻止了阻請一個月內提出書面報告好不好好 謝謝\n","txt":"主席在場原先列席了政局院首長官員會長公眾夥伴媒體記者女士先生那麼有請部長請部長主席你叫了我很快速度加速不好意思\n來 部長好 你不用急來 你看看最近有沒有這兩個月有人用吉卜力風格的在傳貼圖有沒有看到 有沒有看過這個呢吉卜力在日本他們的一些著作一些創作人他們抗議說你把這個吉卜力畫風可以不受著作權保護嗎結果日本政府說的確他認為他們的著作權是單純的創意或風格本身不受著作權保護請問部長為什麼日本政府要將AI生成圖獻出他的著作權保護呢\n這個委員提這個確實是一個問題這個就是各國的法律因為這個確實在AI的訓練裡面這個他們需要塗料庫嘛對不對他需要更多的塗料庫如果這些AI生成公司都把錢花在取得著作權的這些塗料上面那他們就沒有餘力去買超級電腦運算對不對好那我們來看一下所以呢我們像AI新十大建設有提到AI主權AI\n速發部說主權AI訓練語料庫對不對所以速發部目前在幫忙打造這樣的一個AI的訓練語料庫嘛對所以你們是不是也認同或者說覺得日本的做法的確有它的必要性我們要發展AI主權AI我們也事實上呢對於這些語料庫的建立訓練語料庫的建立也要國家來投資\n對 我們上次蘇發部就是我們那個資料創新司司長就是在負責推動這一塊好 很好 那我們往下看但是相對的我們除了這些之外呢也提到了我們的預告的這個利用發展促進條例當中也得到公務員我們也避免他除非是重大過失我們也不希望他因為要去承辦這個業務而侵犯到包括著作權等其他的這個爭議是不是這樣對\n好 但是但是我們要另外一面平衡往下看但是呢關於想下一頁我們的個資保護啊其實呢健保法當中呢個人可以請求停止使用但是我們的條例預告當中呢我們是採取促進個人在的保護措施或機制民眾可以請求停止嗎這個 來這裡說明一下我們在進語料資料庫的時候訓練資料庫的時候\n跟委員報告我們在這個促進資料創新利用發展條例裡面的這個前應該是第四條就有規定是說在資料創新的過程當中仍然要符合各自保護所以也要符合爆發健保法的規定對要有各自保護謝謝那部長今天我想我們再說明一下我們國家要發展這個主權AI要生成是AI我們有很多的法令法制度要建立其他國家我們也可以參考往下看但是另外我要談另外一個就是打詐\n經常我每次來請教你都跟打造有關目前我們有一個第三方支付的量能登錄制度部長你認為這個量能登記制度還有效嗎那個當然有精進的空間啦不過目前在管理上是有它的效果那有沒有制定出相關的監管法規呢目前只有登錄制度喔監管法規有沒有監管法規來說明一下\n我們洗房法向下有好幾個執法所以我們有根據洗房法上面去定對所以你們都是根據洗房法來來做控制但是沒有自己訂立一個監管法規有沒有就是洗房法嘛就用洗房法而已嘛好我們看一下那洗房法什麼問題但是你來看一下第三方之戶有一個公司洗錢50億啊他是大規模的惡性的倒閉但是呢我們我們來看一下監管會裁罰多少\n金管會裁罰多少 這個案例金管會裁罰來 我要告訴你我來自財政委員會金管會對於這些裁罰都會在當日後就公佈那現在你看我現在問你也不知道 我也不知道啊到底裁罰了沒有 裁罰多少 知不知道裁罰了 但是裁罰多少30萬30萬 待會我有問到的啦但是有沒有公佈 沒有\n有公佈嗎 你們有沒有一個明白的公佈說明辦法讓我們外界社會可以理解到這些涉及到詐騙的 他有被你們裁罰部長 是不是你們要加強這個部分我們有在媒體群組公佈 我的意思是說你們什麼時候公佈 其實是你們的行政裁量但是如果你們定出了一個辦法 民眾就可以知道說我們可以定時的去看你們有沒有依法裁法 是不是這樣子\n部長知道意思沒有 我們要比照金管會把你們的重大裁罰要要求一個約束 自我約束定期公告我們要看因為時間的關係另外剛剛說什麼 你們說罰了30萬你們是根據洗房法但是我們來看一下洗錢防治法裡面如果是機構的是50萬到1000萬個人的是5萬到500萬我看你們的等級是把它當作個人在罰不是把它當作機構在罰部長會不會裁罰太輕\n三十萬啊洗髮法是機構是五十到一千個人是五到五百看起來你們是用個人的尺度去裁罰請問這個地方洗錢的難道是個個人嗎是不是你們在未來裁罰的時候要考慮一下因為他是屬於第三方支付是屬於金融機構喔他是被認定是屬於金融機構喔\n現在是因為負責人好像被羈押了所以負責人被羈押是一件事情我說你們是用機構的尺度去裁罰還是用個人的尺度去裁罰部長你們未來要把這個區分出來好不好把家強打詐最後一個問題我們說為落地平台提報法律代表請問這個法律代表能負責什麼法律責任\n法律代表就是給你一個人頭給你看啊我們就是有要裁罰或者是要那個下架就會經過那他找個人頭他能負什麼法律責任他如果沒有照我們的要求出我們就開始開罰裁罰開罰那個人頭就是那個公司代表\n他就是法律代表嘛所以說法律代表的一個承擔能力呢還太弱啦我們再往下看所以最後 最後無廣告業務的平台沒有納入打詐專法現在是有廣告業務的才納入打詐專法嗎目前是那未來呢 未來可不可以把這些無廣告業務的想辦法納進打詐專法來這個要修法嗎要修法 有沒有打算修法\n不然我們來推動來 最後的結論所以呢 速發部應該完善第三方支付的業務監管法規 目前沒有違法的重大 應該在官網上依據辦法來公告另外呢 對未落地際未提供廣告服務的平台要阻詐是不是這個阻寫錯了阻止了阻請一個月內提出書面報告好不好好 謝謝\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:03.257 --> 00:12.965\n主席在場原先列席了政局院首長官員會長公眾夥伴媒體記者女士先生那麼有請部長請部長主席你叫了我很快速度加速不好意思\n\n00:18.671 --> 00:47.570\n來部長好你不用急來你看看最近有沒有這兩個月有人用吉卜力風格的在傳貼圖有沒有看到有沒有看過這個呢吉卜力在日本他們的一些著作一些創作人他們抗議說你把這個吉卜力畫風可以不受著作權保護嗎結果日本政府說的確他認為他們的著作權是單純的創意或風格本身不受著作權保護請問部長為什麼日本政府要將AI生成圖獻出他的著作權保護呢\n\n00:49.330 --> 01:13.275\n這個委員提這個確實是一個問題這個就是各國的法律因為這個確實在AI的訓練裡面這個他們需要塗料庫嘛對不對他需要更多的塗料庫如果這些AI生成公司都把錢花在取得著作權的這些塗料上面那他們就沒有餘力去買超級電腦運算對不對好那我們來看一下所以呢我們像AI新十大建設有提到AI主權AI\n\n01:14.275 --> 01:36.790\n速發部說主權AI訓練語料庫對不對所以速發部目前在幫忙打造這樣的一個AI的訓練語料庫嘛對所以你們是不是也認同或者說覺得日本的做法的確有它的必要性我們要發展AI主權AI我們也事實上呢對於這些語料庫的建立訓練語料庫的建立也要國家來投資\n\n01:37.911 --> 02:03.200\n對我們上次蘇發部就是我們那個資料創新司司長就是在負責推動這一塊好很好那我們往下看但是相對的我們除了這些之外呢也提到了我們的預告的這個利用發展促進條例當中也得到公務員我們也避免他除非是重大過失我們也不希望他因為要去承辦這個業務而侵犯到包括著作權等其他的這個爭議是不是這樣對\n\n02:04.520 --> 02:24.348\n好但是但是我們要另外一面平衡往下看但是呢關於想下一頁我們的個資保護啊其實呢健保法當中呢個人可以請求停止使用但是我們的條例預告當中呢我們是採取促進個人在的保護措施或機制民眾可以請求停止嗎這個來這裡說明一下我們在進語料資料庫的時候訓練資料庫的時候\n\n02:32.122 --> 02:57.414\n跟委員報告我們在這個促進資料創新利用發展條例裡面的這個前應該是第四條就有規定是說在資料創新的過程當中仍然要符合各自保護所以也要符合爆發健保法的規定對要有各自保護謝謝那部長今天我想我們再說明一下我們國家要發展這個主權AI要生成是AI我們有很多的法令法制度要建立其他國家我們也可以參考往下看但是另外我要談另外一個就是打詐\n\n02:58.454 --> 03:19.529\n經常我每次來請教你都跟打造有關目前我們有一個第三方支付的量能登錄制度部長你認為這個量能登記制度還有效嗎那個當然有精進的空間啦不過目前在管理上是有它的效果那有沒有制定出相關的監管法規呢目前只有登錄制度喔監管法規有沒有監管法規來說明一下\n\n03:20.475 --> 03:48.298\n我們洗房法向下有好幾個執法所以我們有根據洗房法上面去定對所以你們都是根據洗房法來來做控制但是沒有自己訂立一個監管法規有沒有就是洗房法嘛就用洗房法而已嘛好我們看一下那洗房法什麼問題但是你來看一下第三方之戶有一個公司洗錢50億啊他是大規模的惡性的倒閉但是呢我們我們來看一下監管會裁罰多少\n\n03:51.587 --> 04:14.219\n金管會裁罰多少這個案例金管會裁罰來我要告訴你我來自財政委員會金管會對於這些裁罰都會在當日後就公佈那現在你看我現在問你也不知道我也不知道啊到底裁罰了沒有裁罰多少知不知道裁罰了但是裁罰多少30萬30萬待會我有問到的啦但是有沒有公佈沒有\n\n04:15.563 --> 04:39.808\n有公佈嗎你們有沒有一個明白的公佈說明辦法讓我們外界社會可以理解到這些涉及到詐騙的他有被你們裁罰部長是不是你們要加強這個部分我們有在媒體群組公佈我的意思是說你們什麼時候公佈其實是你們的行政裁量但是如果你們定出了一個辦法民眾就可以知道說我們可以定時的去看你們有沒有依法裁法是不是這樣子\n\n04:42.669 --> 05:09.415\n部長知道意思沒有我們要比照金管會把你們的重大裁罰要要求一個約束自我約束定期公告我們要看因為時間的關係另外剛剛說什麼你們說罰了30萬你們是根據洗房法但是我們來看一下洗錢防治法裡面如果是機構的是50萬到1000萬個人的是5萬到500萬我看你們的等級是把它當作個人在罰不是把它當作機構在罰部長會不會裁罰太輕\n\n05:12.471 --> 05:33.860\n三十萬啊洗髮法是機構是五十到一千個人是五到五百看起來你們是用個人的尺度去裁罰請問這個地方洗錢的難道是個個人嗎是不是你們在未來裁罰的時候要考慮一下因為他是屬於第三方支付是屬於金融機構喔他是被認定是屬於金融機構喔\n\n05:36.971 --> 05:55.379\n現在是因為負責人好像被羈押了所以負責人被羈押是一件事情我說你們是用機構的尺度去裁罰還是用個人的尺度去裁罰部長你們未來要把這個區分出來好不好把家強打詐最後一個問題我們說為落地平台提報法律代表請問這個法律代表能負責什麼法律責任\n\n05:57.110 --> 06:13.170\n法律代表就是給你一個人頭給你看啊我們就是有要裁罰或者是要那個下架就會經過那他找個人頭他能負什麼法律責任他如果沒有照我們的要求出我們就開始開罰裁罰開罰那個人頭就是那個公司代表\n\n06:14.171 --> 06:36.531\n他就是法律代表嘛所以說法律代表的一個承擔能力呢還太弱啦我們再往下看所以最後最後無廣告業務的平台沒有納入打詐專法現在是有廣告業務的才納入打詐專法嗎目前是那未來呢未來可不可以把這些無廣告業務的想辦法納進打詐專法來這個要修法嗎要修法有沒有打算修法\n\n06:37.887 --> 07:00.126\n不然我們來推動來最後的結論所以呢速發部應該完善第三方支付的業務監管法規目前沒有違法的重大應該在官網上依據辦法來公告另外呢對未落地際未提供廣告服務的平台要阻詐是不是這個阻寫錯了阻止了阻請一個月內提出書面報告好不好好謝謝\n\n","segments":[{"start":3.257,"end":12.965,"text":"主席在場原先列席了政局院首長官員會長公眾夥伴媒體記者女士先生那麼有請部長請部長主席你叫了我很快速度加速不好意思"},{"start":18.671,"end":47.57,"text":"來 部長好 你不用急來 你看看最近有沒有這兩個月有人用吉卜力風格的在傳貼圖有沒有看到 有沒有看過這個呢吉卜力在日本他們的一些著作一些創作人他們抗議說你把這個吉卜力畫風可以不受著作權保護嗎結果日本政府說的確他認為他們的著作權是單純的創意或風格本身不受著作權保護請問部長為什麼日本政府要將AI生成圖獻出他的著作權保護呢"},{"start":49.33,"end":73.275,"text":"這個委員提這個確實是一個問題這個就是各國的法律因為這個確實在AI的訓練裡面這個他們需要塗料庫嘛對不對他需要更多的塗料庫如果這些AI生成公司都把錢花在取得著作權的這些塗料上面那他們就沒有餘力去買超級電腦運算對不對好那我們來看一下所以呢我們像AI新十大建設有提到AI主權AI"},{"start":74.275,"end":96.79,"text":"速發部說主權AI訓練語料庫對不對所以速發部目前在幫忙打造這樣的一個AI的訓練語料庫嘛對所以你們是不是也認同或者說覺得日本的做法的確有它的必要性我們要發展AI主權AI我們也事實上呢對於這些語料庫的建立訓練語料庫的建立也要國家來投資"},{"start":97.911,"end":123.2,"text":"對 我們上次蘇發部就是我們那個資料創新司司長就是在負責推動這一塊好 很好 那我們往下看但是相對的我們除了這些之外呢也提到了我們的預告的這個利用發展促進條例當中也得到公務員我們也避免他除非是重大過失我們也不希望他因為要去承辦這個業務而侵犯到包括著作權等其他的這個爭議是不是這樣對"},{"start":124.52,"end":144.348,"text":"好 但是但是我們要另外一面平衡往下看但是呢關於想下一頁我們的個資保護啊其實呢健保法當中呢個人可以請求停止使用但是我們的條例預告當中呢我們是採取促進個人在的保護措施或機制民眾可以請求停止嗎這個 來這裡說明一下我們在進語料資料庫的時候訓練資料庫的時候"},{"start":152.122,"end":177.414,"text":"跟委員報告我們在這個促進資料創新利用發展條例裡面的這個前應該是第四條就有規定是說在資料創新的過程當中仍然要符合各自保護所以也要符合爆發健保法的規定對要有各自保護謝謝那部長今天我想我們再說明一下我們國家要發展這個主權AI要生成是AI我們有很多的法令法制度要建立其他國家我們也可以參考往下看但是另外我要談另外一個就是打詐"},{"start":178.454,"end":199.529,"text":"經常我每次來請教你都跟打造有關目前我們有一個第三方支付的量能登錄制度部長你認為這個量能登記制度還有效嗎那個當然有精進的空間啦不過目前在管理上是有它的效果那有沒有制定出相關的監管法規呢目前只有登錄制度喔監管法規有沒有監管法規來說明一下"},{"start":200.475,"end":228.298,"text":"我們洗房法向下有好幾個執法所以我們有根據洗房法上面去定對所以你們都是根據洗房法來來做控制但是沒有自己訂立一個監管法規有沒有就是洗房法嘛就用洗房法而已嘛好我們看一下那洗房法什麼問題但是你來看一下第三方之戶有一個公司洗錢50億啊他是大規模的惡性的倒閉但是呢我們我們來看一下監管會裁罰多少"},{"start":231.587,"end":254.219,"text":"金管會裁罰多少 這個案例金管會裁罰來 我要告訴你我來自財政委員會金管會對於這些裁罰都會在當日後就公佈那現在你看我現在問你也不知道 我也不知道啊到底裁罰了沒有 裁罰多少 知不知道裁罰了 但是裁罰多少30萬30萬 待會我有問到的啦但是有沒有公佈 沒有"},{"start":255.563,"end":279.808,"text":"有公佈嗎 你們有沒有一個明白的公佈說明辦法讓我們外界社會可以理解到這些涉及到詐騙的 他有被你們裁罰部長 是不是你們要加強這個部分我們有在媒體群組公佈 我的意思是說你們什麼時候公佈 其實是你們的行政裁量但是如果你們定出了一個辦法 民眾就可以知道說我們可以定時的去看你們有沒有依法裁法 是不是這樣子"},{"start":282.669,"end":309.415,"text":"部長知道意思沒有 我們要比照金管會把你們的重大裁罰要要求一個約束 自我約束定期公告我們要看因為時間的關係另外剛剛說什麼 你們說罰了30萬你們是根據洗房法但是我們來看一下洗錢防治法裡面如果是機構的是50萬到1000萬個人的是5萬到500萬我看你們的等級是把它當作個人在罰不是把它當作機構在罰部長會不會裁罰太輕"},{"start":312.471,"end":333.86,"text":"三十萬啊洗髮法是機構是五十到一千個人是五到五百看起來你們是用個人的尺度去裁罰請問這個地方洗錢的難道是個個人嗎是不是你們在未來裁罰的時候要考慮一下因為他是屬於第三方支付是屬於金融機構喔他是被認定是屬於金融機構喔"},{"start":336.971,"end":355.379,"text":"現在是因為負責人好像被羈押了所以負責人被羈押是一件事情我說你們是用機構的尺度去裁罰還是用個人的尺度去裁罰部長你們未來要把這個區分出來好不好把家強打詐最後一個問題我們說為落地平台提報法律代表請問這個法律代表能負責什麼法律責任"},{"start":357.11,"end":373.17,"text":"法律代表就是給你一個人頭給你看啊我們就是有要裁罰或者是要那個下架就會經過那他找個人頭他能負什麼法律責任他如果沒有照我們的要求出我們就開始開罰裁罰開罰那個人頭就是那個公司代表"},{"start":374.171,"end":396.531,"text":"他就是法律代表嘛所以說法律代表的一個承擔能力呢還太弱啦我們再往下看所以最後 最後無廣告業務的平台沒有納入打詐專法現在是有廣告業務的才納入打詐專法嗎目前是那未來呢 未來可不可以把這些無廣告業務的想辦法納進打詐專法來這個要修法嗎要修法 有沒有打算修法"},{"start":397.887,"end":420.126,"text":"不然我們來推動來 最後的結論所以呢 速發部應該完善第三方支付的業務監管法規 目前沒有違法的重大 應該在官網上依據辦法來公告另外呢 對未落地際未提供廣告服務的平台要阻詐是不是這個阻寫錯了阻止了阻請一個月內提出書面報告好不好好 謝謝"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":744,"blocks":[["鍾委員佳濱：（11時44分）主席、在場的委員先進、列席的政府機關首長官員、會場的工作夥伴、媒體記者女士先生，有請部長。"],["主席：請部長。"],["黃部長彥男：鍾委員好。"],["鍾委員佳濱：部長好，你不用急。你看看，最近這兩個月有人用吉卜力風格的在傳貼圖，有沒有看到、有沒有看過？"],["黃部長彥男：有。"],["鍾委員佳濱：關於這件事，日本有一些創作人就抗議這個吉卜力畫風可以不受著作權保護嗎？結果日本政府說，的確，它認為單純的創意或風格本身不受著作權保護。請問部長，為什麼日本政府要將AI生成圖限縮著作權保護呢？"],["黃部長彥男：委員提出的確實是一個問題，這個就是各國的法律，因為確實在AI的訓練裡面，這個……"],["鍾委員佳濱：他們需要圖料庫，對不對？"],["黃部長彥男：對，圖料庫。"],["鍾委員佳濱：它希望有更多的圖料庫，如果這些AI生成公司都把錢花在取得著作權的這些圖料上面，那他們就沒有餘力去……"],["黃部長彥男：去做發展。"],["鍾委員佳濱：買超級電腦來運算嘛！對不對？好，我們講AI新十大建設，有提到主權AI，數發部說建置主權AI訓練語料庫，所以數發部目前在幫忙打造這樣一個AI訓練語料庫嘛？"],["黃部長彥男：對。"],["鍾委員佳濱：所以你們是不是也認同，或者覺得日本的做法的確有它的必要性？我們要發展主權AI，事實上對於這些訓練語料庫的建立也要國家來投資。"],["黃部長彥男：對，事實上數發部的資料創新司司長就是在負責推動這一塊。"],["鍾委員佳濱：很好。但是相對的，除了這些之外，在數發部預告的促進資料創新利用發展條例當中也提到，公務員除非是重大過失，我們也不希望他因為要去承辦這個業務而侵犯到包括著作權等爭議，是不是這樣？"],["黃部長彥男：對。"],["鍾委員佳濱：但是我們另外一面要平衡，關於個資保護，其實健保法當中個人可以請求停止使用，但是我們的條例預告當中是採取促進個人資料保護的措施或機制，民眾可以請求停止嗎？如果我們在建訓練語料庫的時候。"],["莊司長明芬：跟委員報告，我們在促進資料創新利用發展條例裡面，應該是第四條，就有規定在資料創新的過程當中仍然要符合個資保護。"],["鍾委員佳濱：所以也要符合包括健保法的規定？"],["莊司長明芬：對，要有個資保護。"],["鍾委員佳濱：好，謝謝。部長，我們是要說明一下，國家要發展主權AI，要生成式AI，我們有很多的法令、法制都要建立，其他國家我們也可以參考。","我要談的另外一個就是打詐，我每次來請教你都與打詐有關，目前我們有一個第三方支付的量能登錄制度，部長，你認為這個量能登錄制度還有效嗎？"],["黃部長彥男：當然有精進的空間，不過目前在管理上是有它的效果。"],["鍾委員佳濱：那有沒有制定出相關的監管法規呢？目前只有登錄制度，監管法規有沒有？"],["林署長俊秀：在洗防法項下有好幾個子法，所以我們有根據洗防法去訂定。"],["鍾委員佳濱：對，所以你們都是根據洗防法來做控制，但是沒有自己訂一個監管法規，有沒有？就是用洗防法而已嘛！我們看一下洗防法有什麼問題，有一個第三方支付的公司洗錢50億，它是大規模的惡性倒閉，但是這個案例金管會裁罰多少？來，我告訴你，我來自財政委員會，金管會對於這些裁罰都會在當日後就公布，但我現在問你你也不知道，我也不知道啊！到底裁罰了沒有？裁罰多少？知不知道？"],["林署長俊秀：裁罰了。"],["鍾委員佳濱：裁罰了，但是裁罰多少？"],["林署長俊秀：30萬。"],["鍾委員佳濱：30萬，其實我有問到了啦！但是有沒有公布？沒有。"],["林署長俊秀：有公布。"],["鍾委員佳濱：有公布嗎？"],["林署長俊秀：有。"],["鍾委員佳濱：你們有沒有一個明白的公布說明辦法，讓外界社會可以理解到這些涉及詐騙的有被你們裁罰？部長，是不是你們要加強這個部分？"],["林署長俊秀：我們有在媒體群組公布，我們在公布……"],["鍾委員佳濱：我的意思是說，你們什麼時候公布其實是你們的行政裁量，但是如果你們訂出了一個辦法，民眾就會知道可以定時去看你們有沒有依法裁罰，是不是這樣子？"],["林署長俊秀：我們可以來……"],["鍾委員佳濱：部長，知道意思沒有？我們要比照金管會，把你們的重大裁罰……"],["黃部長彥男：放在網上公告。"],["鍾委員佳濱：要要求有一個自我約束、定期公布。"],["黃部長彥男：好，我們以後要公告。"],["鍾委員佳濱：好，往下看，因為時間的關係。","另外，剛剛你們說罰了30萬，你們是根據洗防法，但是我們來看一下洗錢防制法裡面，機構的是50萬到1,000萬，個人的是5萬到500萬，我看你們的等級是把它當作個人在罰，不是把它當作機構在罰，部長，會不會裁罰太輕？"],["黃部長彥男：30萬的……"],["鍾委員佳濱：30萬啊！根據洗防法，機構是50萬到1,000萬；個人是5萬到500萬，看起來你們是用個人的尺度去裁罰，請問這個案例洗錢的難道是個人嗎？是不是你們未來在裁罰的時候要考慮一下？因為第三方支付是屬於金融機構喔！它被認定是屬於金融機構喔！"],["林署長俊秀：是，在洗防法裡面有規定，不過現在因為負責人好像被羈押了，所以我們……"],["鍾委員佳濱：不是，負責人被羈押是一件事情，我是說你們是用機構的尺度去裁罰，還是用個人的尺度去裁罰？部長，你們未來要把這個區分出來，好不好？"],["黃部長彥男：好，我們把它區分清楚。"],["鍾委員佳濱：加強打詐。","最後一個問題，我們說未落地平臺要提報法律代表，請問這個法律代表能夠負責什麼法律責任？"],["黃部長彥男：法律代表就是我們……"],["鍾委員佳濱：法律代表就是有一個人頭給你看啊！"],["黃部長彥男：不是，我們有要裁罰或者是要下架就會經過……"],["鍾委員佳濱：那它找個人頭，他能負什麼法律責任？"],["黃部長彥男：他如果沒有照我們的要求處理，我們就開始開罰、裁罰。"],["鍾委員佳濱：開罰那個人頭？"],["黃部長彥男：沒有，就是那個公司代表。"],["鍾委員佳濱：對，就是法律代表嘛！"],["黃部長彥男：對，他代表公司。"],["鍾委員佳濱：所以我的意思是說，法律代表的承擔能力還是太弱啦！","最後，無廣告業務的平臺沒有納入打詐專法，現在是有廣告業務的才納入打詐專法嘛？"],["黃部長彥男：目前是。"],["鍾委員佳濱：那未來呢？未來可不可以把這些無廣告業務的也想辦法納進打詐專法來？"],["黃部長彥男：這個要修法。"],["鍾委員佳濱：要修法，有沒有打算要修法？不然我們來推動。","最後的結論，數發部應該完善第三方支付的業務監管法規，目前是沒有的，違法的重大裁罰措施應該在官網上依據辦法來公告。另外，對於未落地及未提供網路廣告服務的平臺要阻詐，請一個月內提出書面報告，好不好？"],["黃部長彥男：好。"],["鍾委員佳濱：好，謝謝。"],["黃部長彥男：好，謝謝。"],["主席：好，謝謝。","現在請葉元之委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":442,"meet_id":"委員會-11-3-23-16","speakers":["許智傑","洪孟楷","李昆澤","林國成","陳素月","林俊憲","徐富癸","邱若華","蔡其昌","葛如鈞","劉書彬","黃健豪","張雅琳","翁曉玲","鍾佳濱","葉元之","魯明哲","廖先翔","游顥","王鴻薇","何欣純","楊瓊瓔"],"page_start":379,"meetingDate":["2025-06-18"],"gazette_id":"1146001","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1146001_00012"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期交通委員會第16次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請數位發展部部長黃彥男就「推動 AI 之產業發展政策」進行專題報告，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1146001_00016"}}}