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{\"word\": \"然\", \"start\": 912.706, \"end\": 912.886, \"score\": 0.88}, {\"word\": \"若\", \"start\": 912.886, \"end\": 913.146, \"score\": 0.958}, {\"word\": \"揭\", \"start\": 913.146, \"end\": 913.366, \"score\": 0.904}, {\"word\": \"啦\", \"start\": 913.366, \"end\": 913.566, \"score\": 0.819}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 913.566, \"end\": 913.586, \"score\": 0.011}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:08,035 --> 00:00:13,062\n好謝謝主席我先請一下警政署署長麻煩署長\n\n2\n00:00:20,954 --> 00:00:44,774\n最近有兩件被我們警方去移送社委法送辦事實上引起非常多討論而且事實上這兩個案子最後都被法院打回票一個是在網路上有網友說問陳菊走了嗎在網路上然後立刻就查到直接送社委法送辦\n\n3\n00:00:46,068 --> 00:00:52,074\n另外就是大家都知道之前這個罷團到處在設這個連署點罷免連署點那有這個民眾在這個連署點就問說我要罷免賴清德是在這裡嗎那麼就被罷團說這是滋擾那我們警方就一樣依社會法來送辦\n\n4\n00:01:09,946 --> 00:01:32,619\n那結果送辦之後呢法官呢通通不罰認為根本沒有滋擾啊所以我想請問一下就是說現在我們警方面對現在如火如荼的這些罷免或者呢動不動來報案像網路上這個也是喔他只是問了一下陳菊走了嗎那我想請問一下連問都不能問嗎\n\n5\n00:01:34,127 --> 00:01:58,845\n蛤陳菊走了嗎問到不能問嗎然後有民眾說我要罷免賴清德是不是在這裡啊也不能問嗎就要用社會法去送辦怎麼樣我們現在是戒嚴了嗎所以署長我不曉得這兩個案子引起社會很多討論我不曉得我們現在警方的執法它的標準在哪裡\n\n6\n00:01:59,922 --> 00:02:16,916\n好包委員那因為這個是一個個案啦那對於這個是不是一個真實的狀況那當然都要去做經過了解什麼叫真實不真實我講了法院都已經那個什麼已經都不罰了\n\n7\n00:02:19,279 --> 00:02:27,606\n未來對這個部分的一個這個是不是有沒有民眾的報案啊或者是有沒有這樣一個這個情形我們會依據個案來做一個判斷\n\n8\n00:02:33,123 --> 00:02:57,583\n所以你認為這兩個案子在執法上有沒有過蕩?有沒有不蕩?那這個部分應該是說就是這個依照這個證據的一個狀況有沒有不蕩嗎?有沒有過蕩?有沒有?我覺得這個是不是因為多個案的一個執行所以你都不敢講?你都覺得OK啊?是不是?\n\n9\n00:02:59,182 --> 00:03:24,796\n就是因為我們警政署長這種態度所以我們精神警察就這樣的辦法我問嘛在網路上問一句陳瑜走了嗎要被社會法送辦嗎你覺得這樣子有沒有不當那這個因為是不是有沒有人告訴告發是不是一個假的訊息是不是一個散播的一個狀況那我們當然回去做了解他散播什麼是不是一個假的一個訊息他只問走了嗎\n\n10\n00:03:26,414 --> 00:03:53,357\n我要講的就是說在這過程裡面真的不要讓台灣越來越像警察國家跟戒嚴國家好不好像這兩個案子事實上都已經是以在警方來講都是過當了嘛我們都已經講說法院都是民進黨開的但是還好啊還有一些法官是清醒的啊如果法官也跟著你們這樣胡辦瞎辦那台灣還很可怕耶\n\n11\n00:03:55,174 --> 00:04:16,670\n是不是他只是問這個連署站我要來罷免賴清德可不可以還要被送到社委法請我們警察能夠本於行政中立政黨中立不要看到這些大官看到陳菊哇嚇死了看到賴清德嚇死了\n\n12\n00:04:17,782 --> 00:04:39,073\n所以署長如果你們連長官的態度都是如此啊難怪會有這樣的案例我們是不希望看到這樣的案例接下來我們的整個的這個選這個罷免的過程裡面一定很多啦互相告來告去啦一定會但是我覺得你在執法上總是要有一個我們過去這已經完全違反我的經驗法則了嘛是不是來那個時間暫停一下那個署長先留一下請那個今天有\n\n13\n00:04:50,999 --> 00:05:04,005\n衛福部衛福部今天是次長是吧還有我們也請那個今天法務部也請部長\n\n14\n00:05:10,987 --> 00:05:32,199\n好我們現在趕快來看一個影片那這影片一邊播我跟大家報告因為我們現在不准電子煙販賣所以在網路上事實上你如果去Key進電子煙的時候那接下來它會出現這個畫面就是它沒有電子煙販賣但是它最後會有一個就是說\n\n15\n00:05:33,540 --> 00:05:55,065\n你這個有進一步呢你就可以去點進去看點進去看之後呢這裡有衛福部的一個指示就說這些呢是被封鎖的網站好被封鎖的網站好你再用這些網站呢再去搜尋的時候呢你就會發現呢這些網站呢都是很輕易的可以買到電子菸\n\n16\n00:05:57,731 --> 00:06:13,316\n都可以買到電子煙反而變成了它是一個路徑就是本來就是說一般我們點進我們要在網路上去買電子煙看起來是不准它在網路上販賣但是這個路徑呢其實\n\n17\n00:06:14,736 --> 00:06:42,282\n很多在購買電子菸的朋友呢他們事實上大家都知道用這種方式他就可以輕輕鬆鬆的進入了這些購買電子菸的網站那今天呢我們事實上是反毒大家也知道其實有很多的毒品都是藉用電子菸來做吸食這個是確實所以我想請問衛福部跟法務部這些\n\n18\n00:06:45,230 --> 00:06:46,694\n对不起时间暂停一下不好意思\n\n19\n00:07:00,680 --> 00:07:26,445\n我想請問衛福部跟法部那麼這個電子煙的一個看起來是Google的申訴呢反而成為這個吸毒跟購買電子煙的一個指引那我想請問一下這些網站衛福部只是告訴你就是說這些呢是被你block掉的嘛被你block掉可是反而他只要進入這些網站他可以輕易的去買電子煙\n\n20\n00:07:28,342 --> 00:07:37,596\n我的問題是說所以你們對這些購買電子煙的網站你們也沒有辦法也沒有辦法去取締呀或者是禁止嗎\n\n21\n00:07:39,475 --> 00:08:02,532\n非常感謝委員來這個的質詢那我跟委員報告這個部分事實上是牽涉到這一個兩個部分第一個這個是我們電子菸當然就是有關於這個國建署這邊的一部分可是另外有一個部分這個部分可能會牽涉到就是有關於這一個相關的網頁你要下架這部分可能我們要跟NCC那邊我們來進行相關的協調\n\n22\n00:08:05,814 --> 00:08:16,391\n所以我們可以把這些電子煙的這些網站直接下架嗎我看有一些是境外的有關於這個下架的部分這個可能要跟這個速發部那邊\n\n23\n00:08:21,318 --> 00:08:33,112\n要找速發部,是不是?對,我們要在速發部那邊有一些,像如果說有一些像譬如說像兒少性剝削啦,或等等這些,那同樣的,像這些部分也是一樣好,那我請法務部部長,來因為呢,我們現在反毒,那反毒其實你要從源頭開始抓,是不是?\n\n24\n00:08:41,261 --> 00:08:56,095\n那像這樣的一個狀況我們在我們的發布剪掉的部分可以做些什麼樣的努力呢因為我們雖然台灣其實是蠻奇怪的我們政府事實上是禁止電子煙可是電子煙滿天飛\n\n25\n00:09:00,979 --> 00:09:20,824\n四處都看到你身旁很多人都在抽電子煙啊很多人都在抽電子煙那所以覺得很奇怪我政府一方面禁止電子煙的販售一方面反電子煙但是呢身旁人都大家人手一支電子煙我們還看到一些高官啊現在也都在抽電子煙那請問這些電子煙是哪來的\n\n26\n00:09:22,628 --> 00:09:49,716\n那是我們防堵不力還是說我們打假球那部長這部分我們可以做什麼樣的努力那個電子菸它是菸奶防治法裡面的類菸瓶它的主管的機關是衛福部的國健署但是這個我們既然電子菸當作一個吸堵的一個載具工具那我們這邊就源頭的關係剛剛委員第一次很專業就是我們源頭怎麼去阻斷那基本上\n\n27\n00:09:50,376 --> 00:10:07,177\n那個在我們那個台高檢我們去我們是查緝我們保護部是負責在查緝面的這源頭管理面基本是行政機關在做處理但是我們台高檢署也多次邀請了國建署管務署刑事局司法部來研製如何防這問題就譬如說管務署就是在\n\n28\n00:10:09,079 --> 00:10:37,219\n在關關口的時候在那邊海關那邊就應該有原頭的一個攔截就是要稽查那另外那個塑化部那個國建署那部分就是要法規的一個修改像我們電子煙是不是可以持有以及那個沒入的這部分現在法規還不齊全那菸奶房子是它不准那個電子菸那個包括輸入啦販賣啦等等這些是有一些的行政的改法\n\n29\n00:10:37,759 --> 00:10:54,145\n那這樣的話我們是不是在修法這邊國建署他們那邊已經有在做一些的法案的一些的提出了那另外我們電子菸的查當作一個毒品的一個載具這邊我們用校園青春方案以及安居器的專案我們全力的查緝用電子菸當作一個載具使用那個新鮮毒品所以剛才部長講電子菸是一個載具但是電子菸呢其實是很容易取得\n\n30\n00:11:02,208 --> 00:11:21,723\n但電子菸呢又被我們政府呢事實上是禁止禁止販售的嘛所以我就說它的荒謬之處就是在這樣就是說你一方面其實我們政府呢是禁止的但是另外一方面人手一資上從政府的官員到校園裡面其實很多小朋友這個學生也在抽電子菸\n\n31\n00:11:26,807 --> 00:11:38,272\n所以你怎麼,就是,不然你就,不然的話你這就是,我覺得這就是政府很丟臉的地方啦好,我一方面我在禁止,但是另外一方面呢,我其實又讓它變得,變得很那個什麼,就很容易取得好,謝謝我們幾位,那在最後一點時間我要講一下因為剛才啊,那個吳思瑤委員特別提到,就是我們在,上次我也有問過那個部長\n\n32\n00:11:51,098 --> 00:11:59,487\n那就是在整個的就是有關於這個假聯署的部分的一個搜索事實上呢檢察官有濫權的問題有濫權的問題剛才吳思耀委員說我之前有質詢過我說你今天去查吳思耀跟吳佩奕的\n\n33\n00:12:09,917 --> 00:12:35,191\n他的這個假聯署的問題然後呢你去搜台北市黨部裡的中山區黨部中山區這個只有一個委員就叫做王洪威我沒有被罷免然後呢剛才吳思耀委員講說這樣子就是因為我們的這個執行長呢被起訴所以呢我要跟社會大眾道歉我要講的是吳思耀委員得了便宜還賣乖啊\n\n34\n00:12:37,295 --> 00:13:04,638\n利用司法手段造成他罷免不成還要讓人家道歉我再請教一下部長假聯署的部分你們就說這個跟黨員名冊高度雷同請問一下罷免吳思瑤或者罷免吳佩義的他的名冊裡面跟黨員名冊高度雷同有沒有一個是我中山區的黨員有沒有可能\n\n35\n00:13:06,639 --> 00:13:12,663\n因為這個個案現在在台北地檢署在三半鐘所以沒辦法就這些來做檢檢但是我要講的檢察官的任權部分我覺得還是要提你在整個的你的搜索或者辦案過程裡面把不相干的資料整個拿走我上次就講了把中山區黨員名冊全部拿走\n\n36\n00:13:30,876 --> 00:13:56,077\n在台中市的部分你在查你在查所謂的假聯署結果呢把人家的把人家有關於他們小額捐款的資料給拿走把他的暫情的報告就是選舉暫情的報告給拿走合理嗎所以我要講的是在這個過程因為已經有起訴了昨天其實我昨天也有去聽\n\n37\n00:13:57,358 --> 00:14:03,360\n那但是有關於在檢察官整個搜索裡面亂權的問題我覺得這裡面不能不去正視他不是檢察官想搜什麼就搜什麼他想拿走什麼資料就拿走什麼資料這一點我本來在我們主要是放在整個的菸品的這個管制還有毒品的管制可是當吳思耀委員得了便宜還賣官還有臉講要我們去道歉\n\n38\n00:14:27,022 --> 00:14:49,914\n他憑什麼呢?難道檢察官濫權的問題不應該被重視嗎?檢察官濫權的問題可以被容忍、可以接受嗎?檢察官沒有濫權,這個是水令狀的檢察官要說什麼完全是依法院核發的搜索票去做執行的那如果說有一些的疑義,那可以在法庭上做一個主張\n\n39\n00:14:52,056 --> 00:15:13,586\n我剛才特別講你們在搜索裡面那個名冊裡面會不會出現中山區的黨員嘛一個都沒有然後把黨員名冊帶走你到底是什麼意思也就是說透過司法做這樣的政治追殺到這種地步世上真的司馬昭之心昭然若揭啦好謝謝\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n8035\t13062\t好謝謝主席我先請一下警政署署長麻煩署長\n20954\t44774\t最近有兩件被我們警方去移送社委法送辦事實上引起非常多討論而且事實上這兩個案子最後都被法院打回票一個是在網路上有網友說問陳菊走了嗎在網路上然後立刻就查到直接送社委法送辦\n46068\t52074\t另外就是大家都知道之前這個罷團到處在設這個連署點罷免連署點那有這個民眾在這個連署點就問說我要罷免賴清德是在這裡嗎那麼就被罷團說這是滋擾那我們警方就一樣依社會法來送辦\n69946\t92619\t那結果送辦之後呢 法官呢通通不罰 認為根本沒有滋擾啊所以我想請問一下 就是說現在我們警方面對現在如火如荼的這些罷免 或者呢動不動來報案 像網路上這個也是喔他只是問了一下陳菊走了嗎 那我想請問一下 連問都不能問嗎\n94127\t118845\t蛤 陳菊走了嗎 問到不能問嗎然後有民眾說 我要罷免賴清德是不是在這裡啊也不能問嗎 就要用社會法去送辦怎麼樣 我們現在是戒嚴了嗎所以署長 我不曉得這兩個案子引起社會很多討論我不曉得我們現在警方的執法 它的標準在哪裡\n119922\t136916\t好 包委員 那因為這個是一個個案啦 那對於這個是不是一個真實的狀況 那當然都要去做經過了解什麼叫真實不真實 我講了 法院都已經那個什麼 已經都不罰了\n139279\t147606\t未來對這個部分的一個這個是不是有沒有民眾的報案啊或者是有沒有這樣一個這個情形我們會依據個案來做一個判斷\n153123\t177583\t所以你認為這兩個案子在執法上有沒有過蕩?有沒有不蕩?那這個部分應該是說就是這個依照這個證據的一個狀況有沒有不蕩嗎?有沒有過蕩?有沒有?我覺得這個是不是因為多個案的一個執行所以你都不敢講?你都覺得OK啊?是不是?\n179182\t204796\t就是因為我們警政署長這種態度所以我們精神警察就這樣的辦法我問嘛在網路上問一句陳瑜走了嗎要被社會法送辦嗎你覺得這樣子有沒有不當那這個因為是不是有沒有人告訴告發是不是一個假的訊息是不是一個散播的一個狀況那我們當然回去做了解他散播什麼是不是一個假的一個訊息他只問走了嗎\n206414\t233357\t我要講的就是說在這過程裡面真的不要讓台灣越來越像警察國家跟戒嚴國家好不好像這兩個案子事實上都已經是以在警方來講都是過當了嘛我們都已經講說法院都是民進黨開的但是還好啊還有一些法官是清醒的啊如果法官也跟著你們這樣胡辦瞎辦那台灣還很可怕耶\n235174\t256670\t是不是他只是問這個連署站我要來罷免賴清德可不可以還要被送到社委法請我們警察能夠本於行政中立 政黨中立不要看到這些大官 看到陳菊 哇 嚇死了看到賴清德嚇死了\n257782\t279073\t所以署長如果你們連長官的態度都是如此啊難怪會有這樣的案例我們是不希望看到這樣的案例接下來我們的整個的這個選這個罷免的過程裡面一定很多啦互相告來告去啦一定會但是我覺得你在執法上總是要有一個我們過去這已經完全違反我的經驗法則了嘛是不是來那個時間暫停一下那個署長先留一下請那個今天有\n290999\t304005\t衛福部衛福部今天是次長是吧還有我們也請那個今天法務部也請部長\n310987\t332199\t好 我們現在趕快來看一個影片那這影片一邊播 我跟大家報告因為我們現在不准電子煙販賣所以在網路上事實上你如果去Key進電子煙的時候那接下來它會出現這個畫面就是它沒有電子煙販賣但是它最後會有一個就是說\n333540\t355065\t你這個有進一步呢 你就可以去點進去看點進去看之後呢 這裡有衛福部的一個指示就說這些呢 是被封鎖的網站 好 被封鎖的網站好 你再用這些網站呢 再去搜尋的時候呢你就會發現呢 這些網站呢 都是很輕易的可以買到電子菸\n357731\t373316\t都可以買到電子煙反而變成了它是一個路徑就是本來就是說一般我們點進我們要在網路上去買電子煙看起來是不准它在網路上販賣但是這個路徑呢其實\n374736\t402282\t很多在購買電子菸的朋友呢他們事實上大家都知道用這種方式他就可以輕輕鬆鬆的進入了這些購買電子菸的網站那今天呢我們事實上是反毒大家也知道其實有很多的毒品都是藉用電子菸來做吸食這個是確實所以我想請問衛福部跟法務部這些\n405230\t406694\t对不起时间暂停一下不好意思\n420680\t446445\t我想請問衛福部跟法部那麼這個電子煙的一個看起來是Google的申訴呢反而成為這個吸毒跟購買電子煙的一個指引那我想請問一下這些網站衛福部只是告訴你就是說這些呢是被你block掉的嘛被你block掉可是反而他只要進入這些網站他可以輕易的去買電子煙\n448342\t457596\t我的問題是說所以你們對這些購買電子煙的網站你們也沒有辦法也沒有辦法去取締呀或者是禁止嗎\n459475\t482532\t非常感謝委員來這個的質詢那我跟委員報告這個部分事實上是牽涉到這一個兩個部分第一個這個是我們電子菸當然就是有關於這個國建署這邊的一部分可是另外有一個部分這個部分可能會牽涉到就是有關於這一個相關的網頁你要下架這部分可能我們要跟NCC那邊我們來進行相關的協調\n485814\t496391\t所以我們可以把這些電子煙的這些網站直接下架嗎我看有一些是境外的有關於這個下架的部分這個可能要跟這個速發部那邊\n501318\t513112\t要找速發部,是不是?對,我們要在速發部那邊有一些,像如果說有一些像譬如說像兒少性剝削啦,或等等這些,那同樣的,像這些部分也是一樣好,那我請法務部部長,來因為呢,我們現在反毒,那反毒其實你要從源頭開始抓,是不是?\n521261\t536095\t那像這樣的一個狀況我們在我們的發布剪掉的部分可以做些什麼樣的努力呢因為我們雖然台灣其實是蠻奇怪的我們政府事實上是禁止電子煙可是電子煙滿天飛\n540979\t560824\t四處都看到 你身旁很多人都在抽電子煙啊很多人都在抽電子煙那所以覺得很奇怪 我政府一方面禁止電子煙的販售一方面反電子煙 但是呢身旁人都 大家人手一支電子煙我們還看到一些高官啊 現在也都在抽電子煙那請問這些電子煙是哪來的\n562628\t589716\t那是我們防堵不力還是說我們打假球那部長這部分我們可以做什麼樣的努力那個電子菸它是菸奶防治法裡面的類菸瓶它的主管的機關是衛福部的國健署但是這個我們既然電子菸當作一個吸堵的一個載具工具那我們這邊就源頭的關係剛剛委員第一次很專業就是我們源頭怎麼去阻斷那基本上\n590376\t607177\t那個在我們那個台高檢我們去我們是查緝我們保護部是負責在查緝面的這源頭管理面基本是行政機關在做處理但是我們台高檢署也多次邀請了國建署 管務署 刑事局 司法部來研製如何防這問題就譬如說管務署就是在\n609079\t637219\t在關關口的時候在那邊海關那邊就應該有原頭的一個攔截就是要稽查那另外那個塑化部那個國建署那部分就是要法規的一個修改像我們電子煙是不是可以持有以及那個沒入的這部分現在法規還不齊全那菸奶房子是它不准那個電子菸那個包括輸入啦販賣啦等等這些是有一些的行政的改法\n637759\t654145\t那這樣的話我們是不是在修法這邊國建署他們那邊已經有在做一些的法案的一些的提出了那另外我們電子菸的查當作一個毒品的一個載具這邊我們用校園青春方案以及安居器的專案我們全力的查緝用電子菸當作一個載具使用那個新鮮毒品所以剛才部長講電子菸是一個載具但是電子菸呢其實是很容易取得\n662208\t681723\t但電子菸呢 又被我們政府呢 事實上是禁止 禁止販售的嘛所以我就說 它的荒謬之處就是在這樣就是說你一方面 其實我們政府呢 是禁止的但是 另外一方面 人手一資 上從政府的官員 到校園裡面其實很多小朋友 這個學生也在抽電子菸\n686807\t698272\t所以你怎麼,就是,不然你就,不然的話你這就是,我覺得這就是政府很丟臉的地方啦好,我一方面我在禁止,但是另外一方面呢,我其實又讓它變得,變得很那個什麼,就很容易取得好,謝謝我們幾位,那在最後一點時間我要講一下因為剛才啊,那個吳思瑤委員特別提到,就是我們在,上次我也有問過那個部長\n711098\t719487\t那就是在整個的就是有關於這個假聯署的部分的一個搜索事實上呢檢察官有濫權的問題有濫權的問題剛才吳思耀委員說我之前有質詢過我說你今天去查吳思耀跟吳佩奕的\n729917\t755191\t他的這個假聯署的問題然後呢你去搜台北市黨部裡的中山區黨部中山區這個只有一個委員就叫做王洪威我沒有被罷免然後呢剛才吳思耀委員講說這樣子就是因為我們的這個執行長呢被起訴所以呢我要跟社會大眾道歉我要講的是吳思耀委員得了便宜還賣乖啊\n757295\t784638\t利用司法手段造成他罷免不成還要讓人家道歉我再請教一下部長假聯署的部分你們就說這個跟黨員名冊高度雷同請問一下罷免吳思瑤或者罷免吳佩義的他的名冊裡面跟黨員名冊高度雷同有沒有一個是我中山區的黨員有沒有可能\n786639\t792663\t因為這個個案現在在台北地檢署在三半鐘所以沒辦法就這些來做檢檢但是我要講的檢察官的任權部分我覺得還是要提你在整個的你的搜索或者辦案過程裡面把不相干的資料整個拿走我上次就講了把中山區黨員名冊全部拿走\n810876\t836077\t在台中市的部分 你在查 你在查所謂的假聯署結果呢 把人家的 把人家有關於他們小額捐款的資料給拿走把他的暫情的報告 就是選舉暫情的報告給拿走 合理嗎所以我要講的是 在這個過程 因為已經有起訴了昨天 其實我昨天也有去聽\n837358\t843360\t那但是有關於在檢察官整個搜索裡面亂權的問題我覺得這裡面不能不去正視他不是檢察官想搜什麼就搜什麼他想拿走什麼資料就拿走什麼資料這一點我本來在我們主要是放在整個的菸品的這個管制還有毒品的管制可是當吳思耀委員得了便宜還賣官還有臉講要我們去道歉\n867022\t889914\t他憑什麼呢?難道檢察官濫權的問題不應該被重視嗎?檢察官濫權的問題可以被容忍、可以接受嗎?檢察官沒有濫權,這個是水令狀的檢察官要說什麼完全是依法院核發的搜索票去做執行的那如果說有一些的疑義,那可以在法庭上做一個主張\n892056\t913586\t我剛才特別講你們在搜索裡面那個名冊裡面會不會出現中山區的黨員嘛一個都沒有然後把黨員名冊帶走你到底是什麼意思也就是說透過司法做這樣的政治追殺到這種地步世上真的司馬昭之心昭然若揭啦好 謝謝\n","txt":"好謝謝主席我先請一下警政署署長麻煩署長\n最近有兩件被我們警方去移送社委法送辦事實上引起非常多討論而且事實上這兩個案子最後都被法院打回票一個是在網路上有網友說問陳菊走了嗎在網路上然後立刻就查到直接送社委法送辦\n另外就是大家都知道之前這個罷團到處在設這個連署點罷免連署點那有這個民眾在這個連署點就問說我要罷免賴清德是在這裡嗎那麼就被罷團說這是滋擾那我們警方就一樣依社會法來送辦\n那結果送辦之後呢 法官呢通通不罰 認為根本沒有滋擾啊所以我想請問一下 就是說現在我們警方面對現在如火如荼的這些罷免 或者呢動不動來報案 像網路上這個也是喔他只是問了一下陳菊走了嗎 那我想請問一下 連問都不能問嗎\n蛤 陳菊走了嗎 問到不能問嗎然後有民眾說 我要罷免賴清德是不是在這裡啊也不能問嗎 就要用社會法去送辦怎麼樣 我們現在是戒嚴了嗎所以署長 我不曉得這兩個案子引起社會很多討論我不曉得我們現在警方的執法 它的標準在哪裡\n好 包委員 那因為這個是一個個案啦 那對於這個是不是一個真實的狀況 那當然都要去做經過了解什麼叫真實不真實 我講了 法院都已經那個什麼 已經都不罰了\n未來對這個部分的一個這個是不是有沒有民眾的報案啊或者是有沒有這樣一個這個情形我們會依據個案來做一個判斷\n所以你認為這兩個案子在執法上有沒有過蕩?有沒有不蕩?那這個部分應該是說就是這個依照這個證據的一個狀況有沒有不蕩嗎?有沒有過蕩?有沒有?我覺得這個是不是因為多個案的一個執行所以你都不敢講?你都覺得OK啊?是不是?\n就是因為我們警政署長這種態度所以我們精神警察就這樣的辦法我問嘛在網路上問一句陳瑜走了嗎要被社會法送辦嗎你覺得這樣子有沒有不當那這個因為是不是有沒有人告訴告發是不是一個假的訊息是不是一個散播的一個狀況那我們當然回去做了解他散播什麼是不是一個假的一個訊息他只問走了嗎\n我要講的就是說在這過程裡面真的不要讓台灣越來越像警察國家跟戒嚴國家好不好像這兩個案子事實上都已經是以在警方來講都是過當了嘛我們都已經講說法院都是民進黨開的但是還好啊還有一些法官是清醒的啊如果法官也跟著你們這樣胡辦瞎辦那台灣還很可怕耶\n是不是他只是問這個連署站我要來罷免賴清德可不可以還要被送到社委法請我們警察能夠本於行政中立 政黨中立不要看到這些大官 看到陳菊 哇 嚇死了看到賴清德嚇死了\n所以署長如果你們連長官的態度都是如此啊難怪會有這樣的案例我們是不希望看到這樣的案例接下來我們的整個的這個選這個罷免的過程裡面一定很多啦互相告來告去啦一定會但是我覺得你在執法上總是要有一個我們過去這已經完全違反我的經驗法則了嘛是不是來那個時間暫停一下那個署長先留一下請那個今天有\n衛福部衛福部今天是次長是吧還有我們也請那個今天法務部也請部長\n好 我們現在趕快來看一個影片那這影片一邊播 我跟大家報告因為我們現在不准電子煙販賣所以在網路上事實上你如果去Key進電子煙的時候那接下來它會出現這個畫面就是它沒有電子煙販賣但是它最後會有一個就是說\n你這個有進一步呢 你就可以去點進去看點進去看之後呢 這裡有衛福部的一個指示就說這些呢 是被封鎖的網站 好 被封鎖的網站好 你再用這些網站呢 再去搜尋的時候呢你就會發現呢 這些網站呢 都是很輕易的可以買到電子菸\n都可以買到電子煙反而變成了它是一個路徑就是本來就是說一般我們點進我們要在網路上去買電子煙看起來是不准它在網路上販賣但是這個路徑呢其實\n很多在購買電子菸的朋友呢他們事實上大家都知道用這種方式他就可以輕輕鬆鬆的進入了這些購買電子菸的網站那今天呢我們事實上是反毒大家也知道其實有很多的毒品都是藉用電子菸來做吸食這個是確實所以我想請問衛福部跟法務部這些\n对不起时间暂停一下不好意思\n我想請問衛福部跟法部那麼這個電子煙的一個看起來是Google的申訴呢反而成為這個吸毒跟購買電子煙的一個指引那我想請問一下這些網站衛福部只是告訴你就是說這些呢是被你block掉的嘛被你block掉可是反而他只要進入這些網站他可以輕易的去買電子煙\n我的問題是說所以你們對這些購買電子煙的網站你們也沒有辦法也沒有辦法去取締呀或者是禁止嗎\n非常感謝委員來這個的質詢那我跟委員報告這個部分事實上是牽涉到這一個兩個部分第一個這個是我們電子菸當然就是有關於這個國建署這邊的一部分可是另外有一個部分這個部分可能會牽涉到就是有關於這一個相關的網頁你要下架這部分可能我們要跟NCC那邊我們來進行相關的協調\n所以我們可以把這些電子煙的這些網站直接下架嗎我看有一些是境外的有關於這個下架的部分這個可能要跟這個速發部那邊\n要找速發部,是不是?對,我們要在速發部那邊有一些,像如果說有一些像譬如說像兒少性剝削啦,或等等這些,那同樣的,像這些部分也是一樣好,那我請法務部部長,來因為呢,我們現在反毒,那反毒其實你要從源頭開始抓,是不是?\n那像這樣的一個狀況我們在我們的發布剪掉的部分可以做些什麼樣的努力呢因為我們雖然台灣其實是蠻奇怪的我們政府事實上是禁止電子煙可是電子煙滿天飛\n四處都看到 你身旁很多人都在抽電子煙啊很多人都在抽電子煙那所以覺得很奇怪 我政府一方面禁止電子煙的販售一方面反電子煙 但是呢身旁人都 大家人手一支電子煙我們還看到一些高官啊 現在也都在抽電子煙那請問這些電子煙是哪來的\n那是我們防堵不力還是說我們打假球那部長這部分我們可以做什麼樣的努力那個電子菸它是菸奶防治法裡面的類菸瓶它的主管的機關是衛福部的國健署但是這個我們既然電子菸當作一個吸堵的一個載具工具那我們這邊就源頭的關係剛剛委員第一次很專業就是我們源頭怎麼去阻斷那基本上\n那個在我們那個台高檢我們去我們是查緝我們保護部是負責在查緝面的這源頭管理面基本是行政機關在做處理但是我們台高檢署也多次邀請了國建署 管務署 刑事局 司法部來研製如何防這問題就譬如說管務署就是在\n在關關口的時候在那邊海關那邊就應該有原頭的一個攔截就是要稽查那另外那個塑化部那個國建署那部分就是要法規的一個修改像我們電子煙是不是可以持有以及那個沒入的這部分現在法規還不齊全那菸奶房子是它不准那個電子菸那個包括輸入啦販賣啦等等這些是有一些的行政的改法\n那這樣的話我們是不是在修法這邊國建署他們那邊已經有在做一些的法案的一些的提出了那另外我們電子菸的查當作一個毒品的一個載具這邊我們用校園青春方案以及安居器的專案我們全力的查緝用電子菸當作一個載具使用那個新鮮毒品所以剛才部長講電子菸是一個載具但是電子菸呢其實是很容易取得\n但電子菸呢 又被我們政府呢 事實上是禁止 禁止販售的嘛所以我就說 它的荒謬之處就是在這樣就是說你一方面 其實我們政府呢 是禁止的但是 另外一方面 人手一資 上從政府的官員 到校園裡面其實很多小朋友 這個學生也在抽電子菸\n所以你怎麼,就是,不然你就,不然的話你這就是,我覺得這就是政府很丟臉的地方啦好,我一方面我在禁止,但是另外一方面呢,我其實又讓它變得,變得很那個什麼,就很容易取得好,謝謝我們幾位,那在最後一點時間我要講一下因為剛才啊,那個吳思瑤委員特別提到,就是我們在,上次我也有問過那個部長\n那就是在整個的就是有關於這個假聯署的部分的一個搜索事實上呢檢察官有濫權的問題有濫權的問題剛才吳思耀委員說我之前有質詢過我說你今天去查吳思耀跟吳佩奕的\n他的這個假聯署的問題然後呢你去搜台北市黨部裡的中山區黨部中山區這個只有一個委員就叫做王洪威我沒有被罷免然後呢剛才吳思耀委員講說這樣子就是因為我們的這個執行長呢被起訴所以呢我要跟社會大眾道歉我要講的是吳思耀委員得了便宜還賣乖啊\n利用司法手段造成他罷免不成還要讓人家道歉我再請教一下部長假聯署的部分你們就說這個跟黨員名冊高度雷同請問一下罷免吳思瑤或者罷免吳佩義的他的名冊裡面跟黨員名冊高度雷同有沒有一個是我中山區的黨員有沒有可能\n因為這個個案現在在台北地檢署在三半鐘所以沒辦法就這些來做檢檢但是我要講的檢察官的任權部分我覺得還是要提你在整個的你的搜索或者辦案過程裡面把不相干的資料整個拿走我上次就講了把中山區黨員名冊全部拿走\n在台中市的部分 你在查 你在查所謂的假聯署結果呢 把人家的 把人家有關於他們小額捐款的資料給拿走把他的暫情的報告 就是選舉暫情的報告給拿走 合理嗎所以我要講的是 在這個過程 因為已經有起訴了昨天 其實我昨天也有去聽\n那但是有關於在檢察官整個搜索裡面亂權的問題我覺得這裡面不能不去正視他不是檢察官想搜什麼就搜什麼他想拿走什麼資料就拿走什麼資料這一點我本來在我們主要是放在整個的菸品的這個管制還有毒品的管制可是當吳思耀委員得了便宜還賣官還有臉講要我們去道歉\n他憑什麼呢?難道檢察官濫權的問題不應該被重視嗎?檢察官濫權的問題可以被容忍、可以接受嗎?檢察官沒有濫權,這個是水令狀的檢察官要說什麼完全是依法院核發的搜索票去做執行的那如果說有一些的疑義,那可以在法庭上做一個主張\n我剛才特別講你們在搜索裡面那個名冊裡面會不會出現中山區的黨員嘛一個都沒有然後把黨員名冊帶走你到底是什麼意思也就是說透過司法做這樣的政治追殺到這種地步世上真的司馬昭之心昭然若揭啦好 謝謝\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:08.035 --> 00:13.062\n好謝謝主席我先請一下警政署署長麻煩署長\n\n00:20.954 --> 00:44.774\n最近有兩件被我們警方去移送社委法送辦事實上引起非常多討論而且事實上這兩個案子最後都被法院打回票一個是在網路上有網友說問陳菊走了嗎在網路上然後立刻就查到直接送社委法送辦\n\n00:46.068 --> 00:52.074\n另外就是大家都知道之前這個罷團到處在設這個連署點罷免連署點那有這個民眾在這個連署點就問說我要罷免賴清德是在這裡嗎那麼就被罷團說這是滋擾那我們警方就一樣依社會法來送辦\n\n01:09.946 --> 01:32.619\n那結果送辦之後呢法官呢通通不罰認為根本沒有滋擾啊所以我想請問一下就是說現在我們警方面對現在如火如荼的這些罷免或者呢動不動來報案像網路上這個也是喔他只是問了一下陳菊走了嗎那我想請問一下連問都不能問嗎\n\n01:34.127 --> 01:58.845\n蛤陳菊走了嗎問到不能問嗎然後有民眾說我要罷免賴清德是不是在這裡啊也不能問嗎就要用社會法去送辦怎麼樣我們現在是戒嚴了嗎所以署長我不曉得這兩個案子引起社會很多討論我不曉得我們現在警方的執法它的標準在哪裡\n\n01:59.922 --> 02:16.916\n好包委員那因為這個是一個個案啦那對於這個是不是一個真實的狀況那當然都要去做經過了解什麼叫真實不真實我講了法院都已經那個什麼已經都不罰了\n\n02:19.279 --> 02:27.606\n未來對這個部分的一個這個是不是有沒有民眾的報案啊或者是有沒有這樣一個這個情形我們會依據個案來做一個判斷\n\n02:33.123 --> 02:57.583\n所以你認為這兩個案子在執法上有沒有過蕩?有沒有不蕩?那這個部分應該是說就是這個依照這個證據的一個狀況有沒有不蕩嗎?有沒有過蕩?有沒有?我覺得這個是不是因為多個案的一個執行所以你都不敢講?你都覺得OK啊?是不是?\n\n02:59.182 --> 03:24.796\n就是因為我們警政署長這種態度所以我們精神警察就這樣的辦法我問嘛在網路上問一句陳瑜走了嗎要被社會法送辦嗎你覺得這樣子有沒有不當那這個因為是不是有沒有人告訴告發是不是一個假的訊息是不是一個散播的一個狀況那我們當然回去做了解他散播什麼是不是一個假的一個訊息他只問走了嗎\n\n03:26.414 --> 03:53.357\n我要講的就是說在這過程裡面真的不要讓台灣越來越像警察國家跟戒嚴國家好不好像這兩個案子事實上都已經是以在警方來講都是過當了嘛我們都已經講說法院都是民進黨開的但是還好啊還有一些法官是清醒的啊如果法官也跟著你們這樣胡辦瞎辦那台灣還很可怕耶\n\n03:55.174 --> 04:16.670\n是不是他只是問這個連署站我要來罷免賴清德可不可以還要被送到社委法請我們警察能夠本於行政中立政黨中立不要看到這些大官看到陳菊哇嚇死了看到賴清德嚇死了\n\n04:17.782 --> 04:39.073\n所以署長如果你們連長官的態度都是如此啊難怪會有這樣的案例我們是不希望看到這樣的案例接下來我們的整個的這個選這個罷免的過程裡面一定很多啦互相告來告去啦一定會但是我覺得你在執法上總是要有一個我們過去這已經完全違反我的經驗法則了嘛是不是來那個時間暫停一下那個署長先留一下請那個今天有\n\n04:50.999 --> 05:04.005\n衛福部衛福部今天是次長是吧還有我們也請那個今天法務部也請部長\n\n05:10.987 --> 05:32.199\n好我們現在趕快來看一個影片那這影片一邊播我跟大家報告因為我們現在不准電子煙販賣所以在網路上事實上你如果去Key進電子煙的時候那接下來它會出現這個畫面就是它沒有電子煙販賣但是它最後會有一個就是說\n\n05:33.540 --> 05:55.065\n你這個有進一步呢你就可以去點進去看點進去看之後呢這裡有衛福部的一個指示就說這些呢是被封鎖的網站好被封鎖的網站好你再用這些網站呢再去搜尋的時候呢你就會發現呢這些網站呢都是很輕易的可以買到電子菸\n\n05:57.731 --> 06:13.316\n都可以買到電子煙反而變成了它是一個路徑就是本來就是說一般我們點進我們要在網路上去買電子煙看起來是不准它在網路上販賣但是這個路徑呢其實\n\n06:14.736 --> 06:42.282\n很多在購買電子菸的朋友呢他們事實上大家都知道用這種方式他就可以輕輕鬆鬆的進入了這些購買電子菸的網站那今天呢我們事實上是反毒大家也知道其實有很多的毒品都是藉用電子菸來做吸食這個是確實所以我想請問衛福部跟法務部這些\n\n06:45.230 --> 06:46.694\n对不起时间暂停一下不好意思\n\n07:00.680 --> 07:26.445\n我想請問衛福部跟法部那麼這個電子煙的一個看起來是Google的申訴呢反而成為這個吸毒跟購買電子煙的一個指引那我想請問一下這些網站衛福部只是告訴你就是說這些呢是被你block掉的嘛被你block掉可是反而他只要進入這些網站他可以輕易的去買電子煙\n\n07:28.342 --> 07:37.596\n我的問題是說所以你們對這些購買電子煙的網站你們也沒有辦法也沒有辦法去取締呀或者是禁止嗎\n\n07:39.475 --> 08:02.532\n非常感謝委員來這個的質詢那我跟委員報告這個部分事實上是牽涉到這一個兩個部分第一個這個是我們電子菸當然就是有關於這個國建署這邊的一部分可是另外有一個部分這個部分可能會牽涉到就是有關於這一個相關的網頁你要下架這部分可能我們要跟NCC那邊我們來進行相關的協調\n\n08:05.814 --> 08:16.391\n所以我們可以把這些電子煙的這些網站直接下架嗎我看有一些是境外的有關於這個下架的部分這個可能要跟這個速發部那邊\n\n08:21.318 --> 08:33.112\n要找速發部,是不是?對,我們要在速發部那邊有一些,像如果說有一些像譬如說像兒少性剝削啦,或等等這些,那同樣的,像這些部分也是一樣好,那我請法務部部長,來因為呢,我們現在反毒,那反毒其實你要從源頭開始抓,是不是?\n\n08:41.261 --> 08:56.095\n那像這樣的一個狀況我們在我們的發布剪掉的部分可以做些什麼樣的努力呢因為我們雖然台灣其實是蠻奇怪的我們政府事實上是禁止電子煙可是電子煙滿天飛\n\n09:00.979 --> 09:20.824\n四處都看到你身旁很多人都在抽電子煙啊很多人都在抽電子煙那所以覺得很奇怪我政府一方面禁止電子煙的販售一方面反電子煙但是呢身旁人都大家人手一支電子煙我們還看到一些高官啊現在也都在抽電子煙那請問這些電子煙是哪來的\n\n09:22.628 --> 09:49.716\n那是我們防堵不力還是說我們打假球那部長這部分我們可以做什麼樣的努力那個電子菸它是菸奶防治法裡面的類菸瓶它的主管的機關是衛福部的國健署但是這個我們既然電子菸當作一個吸堵的一個載具工具那我們這邊就源頭的關係剛剛委員第一次很專業就是我們源頭怎麼去阻斷那基本上\n\n09:50.376 --> 10:07.177\n那個在我們那個台高檢我們去我們是查緝我們保護部是負責在查緝面的這源頭管理面基本是行政機關在做處理但是我們台高檢署也多次邀請了國建署管務署刑事局司法部來研製如何防這問題就譬如說管務署就是在\n\n10:09.079 --> 10:37.219\n在關關口的時候在那邊海關那邊就應該有原頭的一個攔截就是要稽查那另外那個塑化部那個國建署那部分就是要法規的一個修改像我們電子煙是不是可以持有以及那個沒入的這部分現在法規還不齊全那菸奶房子是它不准那個電子菸那個包括輸入啦販賣啦等等這些是有一些的行政的改法\n\n10:37.759 --> 10:54.145\n那這樣的話我們是不是在修法這邊國建署他們那邊已經有在做一些的法案的一些的提出了那另外我們電子菸的查當作一個毒品的一個載具這邊我們用校園青春方案以及安居器的專案我們全力的查緝用電子菸當作一個載具使用那個新鮮毒品所以剛才部長講電子菸是一個載具但是電子菸呢其實是很容易取得\n\n11:02.208 --> 11:21.723\n但電子菸呢又被我們政府呢事實上是禁止禁止販售的嘛所以我就說它的荒謬之處就是在這樣就是說你一方面其實我們政府呢是禁止的但是另外一方面人手一資上從政府的官員到校園裡面其實很多小朋友這個學生也在抽電子菸\n\n11:26.807 --> 11:38.272\n所以你怎麼,就是,不然你就,不然的話你這就是,我覺得這就是政府很丟臉的地方啦好,我一方面我在禁止,但是另外一方面呢,我其實又讓它變得,變得很那個什麼,就很容易取得好,謝謝我們幾位,那在最後一點時間我要講一下因為剛才啊,那個吳思瑤委員特別提到,就是我們在,上次我也有問過那個部長\n\n11:51.098 --> 11:59.487\n那就是在整個的就是有關於這個假聯署的部分的一個搜索事實上呢檢察官有濫權的問題有濫權的問題剛才吳思耀委員說我之前有質詢過我說你今天去查吳思耀跟吳佩奕的\n\n12:09.917 --> 12:35.191\n他的這個假聯署的問題然後呢你去搜台北市黨部裡的中山區黨部中山區這個只有一個委員就叫做王洪威我沒有被罷免然後呢剛才吳思耀委員講說這樣子就是因為我們的這個執行長呢被起訴所以呢我要跟社會大眾道歉我要講的是吳思耀委員得了便宜還賣乖啊\n\n12:37.295 --> 13:04.638\n利用司法手段造成他罷免不成還要讓人家道歉我再請教一下部長假聯署的部分你們就說這個跟黨員名冊高度雷同請問一下罷免吳思瑤或者罷免吳佩義的他的名冊裡面跟黨員名冊高度雷同有沒有一個是我中山區的黨員有沒有可能\n\n13:06.639 --> 13:12.663\n因為這個個案現在在台北地檢署在三半鐘所以沒辦法就這些來做檢檢但是我要講的檢察官的任權部分我覺得還是要提你在整個的你的搜索或者辦案過程裡面把不相干的資料整個拿走我上次就講了把中山區黨員名冊全部拿走\n\n13:30.876 --> 13:56.077\n在台中市的部分你在查你在查所謂的假聯署結果呢把人家的把人家有關於他們小額捐款的資料給拿走把他的暫情的報告就是選舉暫情的報告給拿走合理嗎所以我要講的是在這個過程因為已經有起訴了昨天其實我昨天也有去聽\n\n13:57.358 --> 14:03.360\n那但是有關於在檢察官整個搜索裡面亂權的問題我覺得這裡面不能不去正視他不是檢察官想搜什麼就搜什麼他想拿走什麼資料就拿走什麼資料這一點我本來在我們主要是放在整個的菸品的這個管制還有毒品的管制可是當吳思耀委員得了便宜還賣官還有臉講要我們去道歉\n\n14:27.022 --> 14:49.914\n他憑什麼呢?難道檢察官濫權的問題不應該被重視嗎?檢察官濫權的問題可以被容忍、可以接受嗎?檢察官沒有濫權,這個是水令狀的檢察官要說什麼完全是依法院核發的搜索票去做執行的那如果說有一些的疑義,那可以在法庭上做一個主張\n\n14:52.056 --> 15:13.586\n我剛才特別講你們在搜索裡面那個名冊裡面會不會出現中山區的黨員嘛一個都沒有然後把黨員名冊帶走你到底是什麼意思也就是說透過司法做這樣的政治追殺到這種地步世上真的司馬昭之心昭然若揭啦好謝謝\n\n","segments":[{"start":8.035,"end":13.062,"text":"好謝謝主席我先請一下警政署署長麻煩署長"},{"start":20.954,"end":44.774,"text":"最近有兩件被我們警方去移送社委法送辦事實上引起非常多討論而且事實上這兩個案子最後都被法院打回票一個是在網路上有網友說問陳菊走了嗎在網路上然後立刻就查到直接送社委法送辦"},{"start":46.068,"end":52.074,"text":"另外就是大家都知道之前這個罷團到處在設這個連署點罷免連署點那有這個民眾在這個連署點就問說我要罷免賴清德是在這裡嗎那麼就被罷團說這是滋擾那我們警方就一樣依社會法來送辦"},{"start":69.946,"end":92.619,"text":"那結果送辦之後呢 法官呢通通不罰 認為根本沒有滋擾啊所以我想請問一下 就是說現在我們警方面對現在如火如荼的這些罷免 或者呢動不動來報案 像網路上這個也是喔他只是問了一下陳菊走了嗎 那我想請問一下 連問都不能問嗎"},{"start":94.127,"end":118.845,"text":"蛤 陳菊走了嗎 問到不能問嗎然後有民眾說 我要罷免賴清德是不是在這裡啊也不能問嗎 就要用社會法去送辦怎麼樣 我們現在是戒嚴了嗎所以署長 我不曉得這兩個案子引起社會很多討論我不曉得我們現在警方的執法 它的標準在哪裡"},{"start":119.922,"end":136.916,"text":"好 包委員 那因為這個是一個個案啦 那對於這個是不是一個真實的狀況 那當然都要去做經過了解什麼叫真實不真實 我講了 法院都已經那個什麼 已經都不罰了"},{"start":139.279,"end":147.606,"text":"未來對這個部分的一個這個是不是有沒有民眾的報案啊或者是有沒有這樣一個這個情形我們會依據個案來做一個判斷"},{"start":153.123,"end":177.583,"text":"所以你認為這兩個案子在執法上有沒有過蕩?有沒有不蕩?那這個部分應該是說就是這個依照這個證據的一個狀況有沒有不蕩嗎?有沒有過蕩?有沒有?我覺得這個是不是因為多個案的一個執行所以你都不敢講?你都覺得OK啊?是不是?"},{"start":179.182,"end":204.796,"text":"就是因為我們警政署長這種態度所以我們精神警察就這樣的辦法我問嘛在網路上問一句陳瑜走了嗎要被社會法送辦嗎你覺得這樣子有沒有不當那這個因為是不是有沒有人告訴告發是不是一個假的訊息是不是一個散播的一個狀況那我們當然回去做了解他散播什麼是不是一個假的一個訊息他只問走了嗎"},{"start":206.414,"end":233.357,"text":"我要講的就是說在這過程裡面真的不要讓台灣越來越像警察國家跟戒嚴國家好不好像這兩個案子事實上都已經是以在警方來講都是過當了嘛我們都已經講說法院都是民進黨開的但是還好啊還有一些法官是清醒的啊如果法官也跟著你們這樣胡辦瞎辦那台灣還很可怕耶"},{"start":235.174,"end":256.67,"text":"是不是他只是問這個連署站我要來罷免賴清德可不可以還要被送到社委法請我們警察能夠本於行政中立 政黨中立不要看到這些大官 看到陳菊 哇 嚇死了看到賴清德嚇死了"},{"start":257.782,"end":279.073,"text":"所以署長如果你們連長官的態度都是如此啊難怪會有這樣的案例我們是不希望看到這樣的案例接下來我們的整個的這個選這個罷免的過程裡面一定很多啦互相告來告去啦一定會但是我覺得你在執法上總是要有一個我們過去這已經完全違反我的經驗法則了嘛是不是來那個時間暫停一下那個署長先留一下請那個今天有"},{"start":290.999,"end":304.005,"text":"衛福部衛福部今天是次長是吧還有我們也請那個今天法務部也請部長"},{"start":310.987,"end":332.199,"text":"好 我們現在趕快來看一個影片那這影片一邊播 我跟大家報告因為我們現在不准電子煙販賣所以在網路上事實上你如果去Key進電子煙的時候那接下來它會出現這個畫面就是它沒有電子煙販賣但是它最後會有一個就是說"},{"start":333.54,"end":355.065,"text":"你這個有進一步呢 你就可以去點進去看點進去看之後呢 這裡有衛福部的一個指示就說這些呢 是被封鎖的網站 好 被封鎖的網站好 你再用這些網站呢 再去搜尋的時候呢你就會發現呢 這些網站呢 都是很輕易的可以買到電子菸"},{"start":357.731,"end":373.316,"text":"都可以買到電子煙反而變成了它是一個路徑就是本來就是說一般我們點進我們要在網路上去買電子煙看起來是不准它在網路上販賣但是這個路徑呢其實"},{"start":374.736,"end":402.282,"text":"很多在購買電子菸的朋友呢他們事實上大家都知道用這種方式他就可以輕輕鬆鬆的進入了這些購買電子菸的網站那今天呢我們事實上是反毒大家也知道其實有很多的毒品都是藉用電子菸來做吸食這個是確實所以我想請問衛福部跟法務部這些"},{"start":405.23,"end":406.694,"text":"对不起时间暂停一下不好意思"},{"start":420.68,"end":446.445,"text":"我想請問衛福部跟法部那麼這個電子煙的一個看起來是Google的申訴呢反而成為這個吸毒跟購買電子煙的一個指引那我想請問一下這些網站衛福部只是告訴你就是說這些呢是被你block掉的嘛被你block掉可是反而他只要進入這些網站他可以輕易的去買電子煙"},{"start":448.342,"end":457.596,"text":"我的問題是說所以你們對這些購買電子煙的網站你們也沒有辦法也沒有辦法去取締呀或者是禁止嗎"},{"start":459.475,"end":482.532,"text":"非常感謝委員來這個的質詢那我跟委員報告這個部分事實上是牽涉到這一個兩個部分第一個這個是我們電子菸當然就是有關於這個國建署這邊的一部分可是另外有一個部分這個部分可能會牽涉到就是有關於這一個相關的網頁你要下架這部分可能我們要跟NCC那邊我們來進行相關的協調"},{"start":485.814,"end":496.391,"text":"所以我們可以把這些電子煙的這些網站直接下架嗎我看有一些是境外的有關於這個下架的部分這個可能要跟這個速發部那邊"},{"start":501.318,"end":513.112,"text":"要找速發部,是不是?對,我們要在速發部那邊有一些,像如果說有一些像譬如說像兒少性剝削啦,或等等這些,那同樣的,像這些部分也是一樣好,那我請法務部部長,來因為呢,我們現在反毒,那反毒其實你要從源頭開始抓,是不是?"},{"start":521.261,"end":536.095,"text":"那像這樣的一個狀況我們在我們的發布剪掉的部分可以做些什麼樣的努力呢因為我們雖然台灣其實是蠻奇怪的我們政府事實上是禁止電子煙可是電子煙滿天飛"},{"start":540.979,"end":560.824,"text":"四處都看到 你身旁很多人都在抽電子煙啊很多人都在抽電子煙那所以覺得很奇怪 我政府一方面禁止電子煙的販售一方面反電子煙 但是呢身旁人都 大家人手一支電子煙我們還看到一些高官啊 現在也都在抽電子煙那請問這些電子煙是哪來的"},{"start":562.628,"end":589.716,"text":"那是我們防堵不力還是說我們打假球那部長這部分我們可以做什麼樣的努力那個電子菸它是菸奶防治法裡面的類菸瓶它的主管的機關是衛福部的國健署但是這個我們既然電子菸當作一個吸堵的一個載具工具那我們這邊就源頭的關係剛剛委員第一次很專業就是我們源頭怎麼去阻斷那基本上"},{"start":590.376,"end":607.177,"text":"那個在我們那個台高檢我們去我們是查緝我們保護部是負責在查緝面的這源頭管理面基本是行政機關在做處理但是我們台高檢署也多次邀請了國建署 管務署 刑事局 司法部來研製如何防這問題就譬如說管務署就是在"},{"start":609.079,"end":637.219,"text":"在關關口的時候在那邊海關那邊就應該有原頭的一個攔截就是要稽查那另外那個塑化部那個國建署那部分就是要法規的一個修改像我們電子煙是不是可以持有以及那個沒入的這部分現在法規還不齊全那菸奶房子是它不准那個電子菸那個包括輸入啦販賣啦等等這些是有一些的行政的改法"},{"start":637.759,"end":654.145,"text":"那這樣的話我們是不是在修法這邊國建署他們那邊已經有在做一些的法案的一些的提出了那另外我們電子菸的查當作一個毒品的一個載具這邊我們用校園青春方案以及安居器的專案我們全力的查緝用電子菸當作一個載具使用那個新鮮毒品所以剛才部長講電子菸是一個載具但是電子菸呢其實是很容易取得"},{"start":662.208,"end":681.723,"text":"但電子菸呢 又被我們政府呢 事實上是禁止 禁止販售的嘛所以我就說 它的荒謬之處就是在這樣就是說你一方面 其實我們政府呢 是禁止的但是 另外一方面 人手一資 上從政府的官員 到校園裡面其實很多小朋友 這個學生也在抽電子菸"},{"start":686.807,"end":698.272,"text":"所以你怎麼,就是,不然你就,不然的話你這就是,我覺得這就是政府很丟臉的地方啦好,我一方面我在禁止,但是另外一方面呢,我其實又讓它變得,變得很那個什麼,就很容易取得好,謝謝我們幾位,那在最後一點時間我要講一下因為剛才啊,那個吳思瑤委員特別提到,就是我們在,上次我也有問過那個部長"},{"start":711.098,"end":719.487,"text":"那就是在整個的就是有關於這個假聯署的部分的一個搜索事實上呢檢察官有濫權的問題有濫權的問題剛才吳思耀委員說我之前有質詢過我說你今天去查吳思耀跟吳佩奕的"},{"start":729.917,"end":755.191,"text":"他的這個假聯署的問題然後呢你去搜台北市黨部裡的中山區黨部中山區這個只有一個委員就叫做王洪威我沒有被罷免然後呢剛才吳思耀委員講說這樣子就是因為我們的這個執行長呢被起訴所以呢我要跟社會大眾道歉我要講的是吳思耀委員得了便宜還賣乖啊"},{"start":757.295,"end":784.638,"text":"利用司法手段造成他罷免不成還要讓人家道歉我再請教一下部長假聯署的部分你們就說這個跟黨員名冊高度雷同請問一下罷免吳思瑤或者罷免吳佩義的他的名冊裡面跟黨員名冊高度雷同有沒有一個是我中山區的黨員有沒有可能"},{"start":786.639,"end":792.663,"text":"因為這個個案現在在台北地檢署在三半鐘所以沒辦法就這些來做檢檢但是我要講的檢察官的任權部分我覺得還是要提你在整個的你的搜索或者辦案過程裡面把不相干的資料整個拿走我上次就講了把中山區黨員名冊全部拿走"},{"start":810.876,"end":836.077,"text":"在台中市的部分 你在查 你在查所謂的假聯署結果呢 把人家的 把人家有關於他們小額捐款的資料給拿走把他的暫情的報告 就是選舉暫情的報告給拿走 合理嗎所以我要講的是 在這個過程 因為已經有起訴了昨天 其實我昨天也有去聽"},{"start":837.358,"end":843.36,"text":"那但是有關於在檢察官整個搜索裡面亂權的問題我覺得這裡面不能不去正視他不是檢察官想搜什麼就搜什麼他想拿走什麼資料就拿走什麼資料這一點我本來在我們主要是放在整個的菸品的這個管制還有毒品的管制可是當吳思耀委員得了便宜還賣官還有臉講要我們去道歉"},{"start":867.022,"end":889.914,"text":"他憑什麼呢?難道檢察官濫權的問題不應該被重視嗎?檢察官濫權的問題可以被容忍、可以接受嗎?檢察官沒有濫權,這個是水令狀的檢察官要說什麼完全是依法院核發的搜索票去做執行的那如果說有一些的疑義,那可以在法庭上做一個主張"},{"start":892.056,"end":913.586,"text":"我剛才特別講你們在搜索裡面那個名冊裡面會不會出現中山區的黨員嘛一個都沒有然後把黨員名冊帶走你到底是什麼意思也就是說透過司法做這樣的政治追殺到這種地步世上真的司馬昭之心昭然若揭啦好 謝謝"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":786,"blocks":[["王委員鴻薇：（11時41分）謝謝主席，我先請一下警政署署長。"],["主席：麻煩署長。"],["張署長榮興：委員好。"],["王委員鴻薇：署長，最近有兩件案子被警方依社維法送辦，引起非常多的討論，而且事實上這兩個案子最後都被法院打回票，一個是在網路上有網友問「陳菊走了嗎？」在網路上喔！然後立刻就被查到，直接依社維法送辦；另外，大家都知道之前罷團到處設罷免連署點，有民眾在連署點就問「我要罷免賴清德是在這裡嗎？」就被罷團說這是滋擾，而警方就一樣依社維法送辦，結果送辦之後，法官通通不罰，認為根本沒有滋擾啊！我想請問一下，警方面對現在如火如荼的這些罷免或者動不動來報案，像網路上這個也是，他只是問「陳菊走了嗎？」這一句，我想請問一下，連問都不能問嗎？「陳菊走了嗎？」連問都不能問嗎？然後有民眾問我要罷免賴清德是不是在這裡，也不能問嗎？就要用社維法送辦，怎麼樣？我們現在是戒嚴了嗎？署長，這兩個案子引起社會很多的討論，我不曉得現在警方的執法標準在哪裡。"],["張署長榮興：報告委員，因為這是一個個案，對於這個是不是……"],["王委員鴻薇：兩個個案。"],["張署長榮興：對，兩個。是不是一個真實的狀況，當然都要經過了解……"],["王委員鴻薇：什麼叫真實不真實？我講了，法院都已經不罰了啊！你們確實有送辦啊！"],["張署長榮興：對，未來對這個部分的……有沒有民眾的報案，或者是有沒有這樣的情形，我們會依據個案判斷。"],["王委員鴻薇：你認為這兩個案子在執法上有沒有過當？有沒有不當？"],["張署長榮興：這個部分應該是說，依照證據的狀況做一個……"],["王委員鴻薇：有沒有不當？有沒有過當？"],["張署長榮興：我覺得這個是不是因為多個案的執行，到底有沒有過當……"],["王委員鴻薇：所以你都不敢講？你都覺得OK，是不是？就是因為警政署署長這種態度，所以基層警察就這樣的辦法。我問嘛！在網路上問一句「陳菊走了嗎？」要被依社維法送辦嗎？你覺得這樣子有沒有不當？"],["張署長榮興：這個到底有沒有人告訴、告發？是不是一個假的訊息？是不是一個散播的狀況？我們當然會去了解。"],["王委員鴻薇：他散播什麼？"],["張署長榮興：是不是一個假的訊息……"],["王委員鴻薇：他只問「走了嗎？」我要講的就是在這個過程裡面，真的不要讓臺灣越來越像警察國家跟戒嚴國家，好不好？像這兩個案子事實上在警方來講都已經是過當了，我們都已經講法院都是民進黨開的，但是還好啊，還有一些法官是清醒的，如果法官也跟著你們這樣胡辦瞎辦，那臺灣會很可怕啊！像他只是問這個連署站，我要來罷免賴清德可不可以？還要被依社維法送辦！請我們警察能夠本於行政中立、政黨中立，不要看到這些大官、看到陳菊，哇，嚇死了！看到賴清德，嚇死了！署長，如果你們連長官的態度都是如此，難怪會有這樣的案例，我們是不希望再看到這樣的案例。接下來在整個的罷免過程裡面一定很多啦，互相告來告去，一定會，但是我覺得你在執法上總是要有一個……這已經完全違反我們過去的經驗法則了嘛，是不是？","來，時間暫停一下，署長先留一下，請衛福部次長，還有請法務部部長。好，我們現在趕快來看一個影片，影片一邊播我一邊跟大家報告，因為我們現在不准販賣電子煙，所以在網路你如果key「電子煙」的時候，接下來它會出現這個畫面，就是它沒有販賣電子煙，但是它最後會有一個進一步的連結，你就可以點進去看，點進去看之後這裡有衛福部的一個指示，說這些是被封鎖的網站。好，你用這些網站再去搜尋的時候，就會發現在這些網站都很輕易的可以買到電子煙，反而變成了它是一個路徑，本來一般我們點進去要在網路上買電子煙，看起來是不准它在網路上販賣，但是這個路徑其實很多在購買電子煙的朋友大家都知道，用這種方式就可以輕輕鬆鬆的進入這些購買電子煙的網站。今天我們事實上是反毒，大家也知道，其實有很多的毒品都是藉由電子煙吸食，這個是確實，所以我想請問衛福部跟法務部，這個電子煙看起來是Google的申訴，反而成為吸毒跟購買電子煙的一個指引。我想請問一下，這些網站衛福部只是告訴你這些是被你block掉的，可是反而他只要進入這些網站就可以輕易的去買電子煙。我的問題是你們對這些購買電子煙的網站也沒有辦法去取締或者是禁止嗎？"],["呂次長建德：非常感謝委員的質詢，跟委員報告，這個事實上是牽涉到兩個部分，第一個是電子煙，當然就是跟國健署有關，可是另外有一部分就是有關於相關的網頁要下架，這部分可能要跟NCC進行相關的協調。"],["王委員鴻薇：所以我們可以把這些電子煙的網站直接下架嗎？我看有一些是境外的。"],["呂次長建德：有關於下架部分誠如我剛剛所說，這個可能要跟數發部那邊……"],["王委員鴻薇：要找數發部是不是？"],["呂次長建德：對，我們要跟數發部那邊，如果有一些譬如兒少性剝削等等這些，那同樣的像這些部分也是一樣，我們會來跟……"],["王委員鴻薇：好，那我請法務部部長，因為我們現在要反毒，反毒其實你要從源頭開始抓，是不是？像這樣的狀況在法務部檢調的部分可以做一些什麼樣的努力呢？臺灣其實是蠻奇怪的，政府事實上是禁止電子煙，可是電子煙滿天飛，四處都看得到，你身旁很多人都在抽電子煙，所以我覺得很奇怪，政府一方面禁止電子煙的販售，一方面反電子煙，但是身旁的人大家人手一支電子煙，我們還看到一些高官現在也都在抽電子煙，請問這些電子煙哪來的？是我們防堵不力還是我們打假球？部長，這個部分我們可以做什麼樣的努力？"],["鄭部長銘謙：電子煙是菸害防制法裡面的類菸品，它的主管機關是衛福部的國健署，但是既然電子煙被當作一個吸毒的載具、工具，那我們這邊就要做源頭的管理，剛剛委員提示的很專業，就是源頭怎麼去阻斷。基本上法務部是負責查緝面，源頭管理面基本上是行政機關在處理，但是我們臺高檢署也多次邀集國健署、關務署、刑事局、數發部，研擬如何防制的問題。譬如關務署就是在關口的時候在那邊……"],["王委員鴻薇：海關那邊就應該有……"],["鄭部長銘謙：就好像是源頭的攔截，就是稽查；另外數發部、國健署部分就是要做法規的修改，像電子煙是不是可以持有以及沒入的部分。現在法規還不齊全，菸害防制法是不准電子煙的輸入、販賣等等，這些是有一些行政的裁罰，這樣的話我們是不是再修法，國健署那邊已經有在做一些法案的提出了。另外電子煙成為一個毒品的載具，這邊我們用校園青春方案以及安居緝毒專案全力查緝，用電子煙當作一個載具施用毒品那個我們在處理了……"],["王委員鴻薇：所以剛才部長講電子煙是一個載具，電子菸其實很容易取得，但電子煙又被政府禁止販售，所以我說它的荒謬之處就是這樣，一方面政府是禁止的，但是另外一方面人手一支，上從政府官員、到校園裡面，其實很多小朋友、學生也在抽電子煙，這就是我覺得政府很丟臉的地方，一方面在禁止，但是另外一方面又讓它變得很容易取得。好，謝謝幾位。","最後一點時間我要講一下，因為剛才吳思瑤委員特別提到，上次我也有問過部長，就是在整個有關於假連署部分的搜索，事實上檢察官有濫權的問題。剛才吳思瑤委員說……因為我之前有質詢過，我說你今天去查吳思瑤跟吳沛憶的假連署問題，然後你去搜臺北市黨部的中山區黨部，中山區只有一個委員就叫做王鴻薇，我沒有被罷免，然後剛才吳思瑤委員講，因為我們的執行長被起訴，所以我要跟社會大眾道歉。我要講的是吳思瑤委員得了便宜還賣乖，利用司法手段，造成她罷免不成，還要讓人家道歉！我再請教一下部長，假連署的部分你們就說這個跟黨員名冊高度雷同，請問一下，罷免吳思瑤或者罷免吳沛憶的名冊裡面跟黨員名冊高度雷同，其中有沒有一個是我中山區的黨員，有沒有可能？"],["鄭部長銘謙：跟委員報告，因為這個個案現在……"],["王委員鴻薇：我要講的是……"],["鄭部長銘謙：臺北地檢署在偵辦中，所以我沒辦法就這些來表示意見。"],["王委員鴻薇：是，但是檢察官濫權部分我覺得還是要提，你在整個搜索或者辦案過程裡面，把不相干的資料整個拿走，我上次就講了，把中山區黨員名冊全部拿走；在臺中市的部分，你在查所謂的假連署，結果把人家有關於他們小額捐款的資料給拿走，把選舉戰情的報告給拿走，合理嗎？所以我要講的是這個過程，現在已經起訴了，其實我昨天也有去聽，但是有關於檢察官整個搜索濫權的問題，我覺得不能不去正視，不是檢察官想搜什麼就搜什麼、他想拿走什麼資料就拿走什麼資料。本來今天在這裡我們的重點主要是放在整個菸品管制還有毒品管制，可是吳思瑤委員得了便宜還賣乖、還有臉講要我們去道歉，他憑什麼呢？難道檢察官濫權的問題不應該被重視嗎？檢察官濫權的問題可以被容忍、可以接受嗎？"],["鄭部長銘謙：檢察官沒有濫權……"],["王委員鴻薇：所以這一點……"],["鄭部長銘謙：這個是屬於令狀的，檢察官要搜什麼完全是依法院核發的搜索票執行，如果有一些疑義，可以在法庭上主張或者這部分就走法律程序。"],["王委員鴻薇：我剛才特別講，在那個搜索名冊裡面會不會出現中山區的黨員嘛？一個都沒有！然後把黨員名冊帶走，你到底是什麼意思？也就是透過司法做這樣的政治追殺到這種地步，事實上真的是司馬昭之心昭然若揭了！好，謝謝。"],["主席：好，謝謝。下一位請張啓楷委員發言。","我們處理會議時間，上午的會議持續進行至所有登記發言的委員詢答結束為止。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":432,"meet_id":"委員會-11-3-36-20","speakers":["吳宗憲","王義川","陳培瑜","吳思瑤","黃國昌","沈發惠","羅智強","莊瑞雄","林月琴","王鴻薇","張啓楷","徐欣瑩","葉元之","翁曉玲","林倩綺","張雅琳","林國成"],"page_start":355,"meetingDate":["2025-06-18"],"gazette_id":"1146101","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1146101_00008"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期司法及法制委員會第20次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請司法院副秘書長、法務部部長、衛生福利部部長、教育部部長、法務部矯正署署長、內政部\n警政署署長、勞動部、法務部廉政署率所屬相關單位列席就「青少年刑案嫌疑人於2024年創歷年\n新高，達4.7萬餘人次，現行少年輔導、矯正效能，包括校園霸凌處理機制、高關懷學生、安置\n輔導、保護管束、感化教育、職能訓練、更生系統、中介轉銜機制、追蹤輔導、逆境社工等，及\n《少年事件處理法》『行政輔導先行』施行迄今近兩年，相關制度之檢討與策進」進行專題報\n告，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1146101_00007"}}}