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{\"word\": \"任\", \"start\": 223.839, \"end\": 223.859, \"score\": 0.0}]}, {\"start\": 224.759, \"end\": 249.332, \"text\": \"那第二就是說我們會先優選在區位比較適合而且確定大概開發以後很快就會有年輕人會有需要的族群會進來所以我們會選擇確定就是適合的區位再進來而不是全面大灑灑的方式其實有些區位比較相對比較偏僻的那也不一定都很適合我想這個政策的方向會朝這個樣子來做好那我請教一下署長\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 224.759, \"end\": 224.899, \"score\": 0.708}, {\"word\": \"第\", \"start\": 224.899, \"end\": 225.019, \"score\": 0.758}, {\"word\": \"二\", \"start\": 225.019, \"end\": 225.119, \"score\": 0.482}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 225.119, \"end\": 225.319, \"score\": 0.845}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 225.319, \"end\": 226.28, \"score\": 0.888}, {\"word\": \"說\"}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 226.28, \"end\": 226.76, \"score\": 0.813}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"先\", \"start\": 226.76, \"end\": 227.48, \"score\": 0.868}, {\"word\": \"優\"}, {\"word\": \"選\"}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 227.48, \"end\": 228.681, \"score\": 0.933}, {\"word\": \"區\"}, {\"word\": \"位\", 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\"按\", \"start\": 535.618, \"end\": 535.758, \"score\": 0.959}, {\"word\": \"照\", \"start\": 535.758, \"end\": 535.958, \"score\": 0.864}, {\"word\": \"法\", \"start\": 535.958, \"end\": 536.118, \"score\": 0.973}, {\"word\": \"定\", \"start\": 536.118, \"end\": 536.659, \"score\": 0.864}, {\"word\": \"應\"}, {\"word\": \"該\"}, {\"word\": \"給\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 536.659, \"end\": 536.919, \"score\": 0.839}, {\"word\": \"話\"}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 536.919, \"end\": 537.199, \"score\": 0.805}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"去\", \"start\": 537.199, \"end\": 537.52, \"score\": 0.871}, {\"word\": \"爭\"}, {\"word\": \"取\", \"start\": 537.52, \"end\": 537.72, \"score\": 0.88}, {\"word\": \"對\"}, {\"word\": \"還\"}, {\"word\": \"要\", \"start\": 537.72, \"end\": 537.88, \"score\": 0.874}, {\"word\": \"去\", \"start\": 537.88, \"end\": 538.16, \"score\": 0.833}, {\"word\": \"爭\"}, {\"word\": \"取\", \"start\": 538.16, \"end\": 538.521, \"score\": 0.881}, {\"word\": \"還\"}, {\"word\": \"說\"}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 538.521, \"end\": 538.661, \"score\": 0.857}, {\"word\": \"低\", \"start\": 538.661, \"end\": 538.861, \"score\": 0.886}, {\"word\": \"於\", \"start\": 538.861, \"end\": 538.981, \"score\": 0.833}, {\"word\": \"1\"}, {\"word\": \"0\"}, {\"word\": \"%\"}, {\"word\": \"呢\", \"start\": 538.981, \"end\": 539.261, \"score\": 0.855}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 539.261, \"end\": 539.822, \"score\": 0.923}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 539.822, \"end\": 540.663, \"score\": 0.887}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 540.663, \"end\": 540.943, \"score\": 0.887}, {\"word\": \"O\", \"start\": 540.943, \"end\": 541.964, \"score\": 0.848}, {\"word\": \"K\", \"start\": 541.964, \"end\": 542.104, \"score\": 0.828}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 542.104, \"end\": 542.525, \"score\": 0.948}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"李\", \"start\": 542.525, \"end\": 542.625, \"score\": 0.875}, {\"word\": \"坤\", \"start\": 542.625, \"end\": 542.785, \"score\": 0.874}, {\"word\": \"臣\", \"start\": 542.785, \"end\": 542.925, \"score\": 0.856}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 542.925, \"end\": 542.945, \"score\": 0.51}, {\"word\": \"員\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:05,254 --> 00:00:07,878\n謝謝主席我們請劉部長還有這個國土署的吳署長劉部長吳署長有請\n\n2\n00:00:12,701 --> 00:00:39,719\n委員好部長好請教一下有媒體講說政府有百萬租家庭的支持計畫從2024年到2032年要計畫增加要多蓋13萬的社會住宅內政部去年8月也有提出一個新建的計畫其中包含租金補貼包租代管都已經核定但是新建設宅的計畫還沒有被核定有這件事情嗎\n\n3\n00:00:41,052 --> 00:01:04,970\n報告委員我想這樣子的一個說法太這個這個比較簡化你把它說明清楚是我想跟委員報告是這樣就是說賴總統當然他會延續原來蔡總統所說的社會住宅興建的部分但是因為社會住宅的興建在過去執行的層面當中第一個我們變成是找公有地然後用公務機關的預算然後蓋這麼多社會住宅\n\n4\n00:01:08,152 --> 00:01:14,039\n那這樣子累積下來到所謂的20萬戶或30萬戶的時候所動用到的公務預算是非常的龐大跟驚人我想你應該了解所以我們在財務槓桿的這個情況之下要重新思考怎麼樣可以多元取得社會住宅\n\n5\n00:01:25,834 --> 00:01:52,479\n那所謂多元取得社會住宅呢現在行政院也照會在協商當中第一個能不能讓這個私人的企業加進來譬如說本來是希望找這個所謂的這個保險的這個事業或者保險公司一起來加入第二個我們能不能看現在的國公營事業裡面他們原來就要蓋的這個社會住宅的話可以導入社會住宅另外一個有沒有可能透過\n\n6\n00:01:53,539 --> 00:02:21,166\n都更或者是整體開發計畫然後在自償率大家是可以接受的狀況之下讓他們很多私人的資金可以進來然後我們用分回取得的方式那包括可能會牽涉到這個榮獎的部分那這些大概有三四個以上的多元取得社宅興建的土地跟資金正在盤點當中所以我們朝著這個興辦社會住宅的方向並沒有改變但是\n\n7\n00:02:23,446 --> 00:02:50,450\n用公有的土地用公務預算來蓋這個社會住宅這個呢花費的預算跟成本確實是太高我們可能要做一下修正好那請教一下部長齁就是說你說這一個用公有的土地來蓋社宅的這個政策會做修正那其中有一項我先問一下現在有關於說地方政府他們如果說這一個整體的這一個開發不論是區段徵收或是做都更那如果\n\n8\n00:02:51,410 --> 00:03:03,558\n這個我們有相關的規定要求他們有一定的比例比如說5%3%到5%要做社會住宅那這個是我們還要中央還要出錢給地方嗎還是地方他們自己要來就可以來蓋了\n\n9\n00:03:05,405 --> 00:03:23,347\n我說明一下好了那當然我們是希望該社宅不會只有中央的責任地方政府本來就應該要擔負責任尤其整開地區在取得上相對是比較容易的那所以我們在這方面一方面要求這個地方政府要保留那有一部分呢\n\n10\n00:03:24,348 --> 00:03:43,859\n如果是在這個區塊裡面有國公有的土地那這個部分我們會優先整合進來來做興建那如果他是屬於地方政府的那當然我們會希望地方政府你要自己要優先來做那也不可以說全部都要丟給中央來興建我想這個部分中央跟地方大家還是要一起承擔責任\n\n11\n00:03:44,759 --> 00:04:09,332\n那第二就是說我們會先優選在區位比較適合而且確定大概開發以後很快就會有年輕人會有需要的族群會進來所以我們會選擇確定就是適合的區位再進來而不是全面大灑灑的方式其實有些區位比較相對比較偏僻的那也不一定都很適合我想這個政策的方向會朝這個樣子來做好那我請教一下署長\n\n12\n00:04:09,952 --> 00:04:15,216\n那所以說現在關於這個整體開發地區的用地我們還要再去買嗎\n\n13\n00:04:16,653 --> 00:04:44,464\n因為我看到這一個媒體有講說我們還要花費800億然後在整個我們計畫的4成以上還要再去買買這個土地有這個預算嗎我們現在目前來講是希望就國公營土地的話國公營事業的土地的話那我們就優先採用會是用租用的方式租用的方式那如果地方政府那我們希望他優先或是大家改用租用的方式來處理那這樣的話其實相對都是節省成本的一個做法\n\n14\n00:04:44,724 --> 00:05:06,438\n所以就不用去買了就是用租用的方式對盡量用租用的方式來處理那這樣金額就可以降下很多啦所以這也是我為所說明在多元取得的方式裡面這些都是其中的一種那也有一些用合作開發也就是它本來是希望朝向設定地上權的它是住宅區那我們就是用設定地上權加容積獎勵\n\n15\n00:05:09,240 --> 00:05:33,213\n來多取得社宅這也是一種方法所以會用很多元的方式朝向最有利的方式來取得那我請教一下就是說這些蓋社宅的錢是從住宅基金來的嗎那我問一下現在住宅基金現在的金額還有多少說明一下我們到現在目前都是靠行政院撥補的所以每年大概都是到撥補\n\n16\n00:05:34,754 --> 00:05:58,239\n兩百億兩百億這樣的撥補的話那有一些是從房地合一稅那有些就是從行政專案撥補所以當然會面對未來還是有財政收支花文法的一個挑戰所以我們也常常不斷思考多元取得也是用這個方式來降低整個住宅基金的一個負擔我這邊有個資料說一百一十三年的時候住宅基金的這個短處有達到一百五十二億\n\n17\n00:06:01,013 --> 00:06:17,262\n行政院都會撥補我再請教一下除了行政院的撥補之外你剛剛署長有提到說這一個房地合一稅那房地合一稅是從這個113年開始之後就是說至少要提撥10%給我們的住宅基金那請問一下都有撥補到10%的這個他說不低於10%一方面給長照二方面是給我們住宅基金那這兩年有撥到10%嗎\n\n18\n00:06:29,456 --> 00:06:44,288\n到目前是還沒有啦不過運的這個目標是沒有變因為它那個部分是一個動態的因為它有一些會移到長照有一些撥給長照有一些撥到我們這邊本來就有規定說要給長照用要給素材機器用啊所以它是用這樣子雙向再調整對啊\n\n19\n00:06:45,590 --> 00:07:00,426\n所以我的意思是說長照其實都有都有拿到足夠的錢另外一部分就是住宅基金的部分的話我看這兩年都沒有拿到百分之十啊是不過行政院還是會其他的不足的部分他還是會用他\n\n20\n00:07:01,434 --> 00:07:27,059\n有夠用就可以了不是因為就牽扯到就是說我們的這個租金補貼也是來自住宅基金啊是對啊這就是環環相扣的啊是對啊因為我們住宅基金本來是說可以從一部分從防疫核地稅裡面拿過來那也沒有拿到那麼多有現在拿到有拿到不到10%啦對不對對那沒有拿到那麼多剩下就是變成說由這個中央要來補\n\n21\n00:07:29,076 --> 00:07:44,429\n那就回到剛剛部長提到我們這個財務法新的財務法通過之後有3700多億下放給地方了對不對我們中央已經沒有這麼多的錢了所以就是說如果這筆錢租金補貼是從這個住宅基金那邊\n\n22\n00:07:46,290 --> 00:08:04,283\n補貼就從這邊出去的話第一個你從房地合約稅這邊過來的錢就不夠了第二個你又從這個中央又有3700多位到了地方去那我們又沒有這麼多錢補到這個住宅基金嘛那所以當然相對的也會影響到說我們對於這個地方的租金的補貼吧所以這是扣在一起的啊\n\n23\n00:08:05,490 --> 00:08:19,100\n對啊所以這個關於這個因為成本法已經沒有辦法這個新財法已經通過了那我是說關於這個房地合約稅本來規定說至少要10%給我們住宅基金的這個有沒有辦法去要求啊\n\n24\n00:08:21,100 --> 00:08:48,851\n報告委員我們會來爭取啦這個應該是到我們住宅基金的房地合一稅我們會來爭取但是因為行政院他們在撥補預算的時候他們也有考量到說我們以租金補貼為主的部分不夠所以才會每年撥補200億那200億裡面如果你用這個房地合一稅的話其實他就差不多是這個規模啦所以他他從哪裡的稅收撥到這裡面去是行政院主計總處他在做的這個裁量所以\n\n25\n00:08:49,572 --> 00:09:02,945\n對我們來講我們收入裡面有這個Quota給我們那我們就很高興但是如果不夠的10%是按照法定應該給的話我們會去爭取對還要去爭取還說不低於10%呢是是好OK好謝謝謝謝李坤臣委員\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n5254\t7878\t謝謝主席我們請劉部長還有這個國土署的吳署長劉部長吳署長有請\n12701\t39719\t委員好部長好請教一下有媒體講說政府有百萬租家庭的支持計畫從2024年到2032年要計畫增加要多蓋13萬的社會住宅內政部去年8月也有提出一個新建的計畫其中包含租金補貼包租代管都已經核定但是新建設宅的計畫還沒有被核定有這件事情嗎\n41052\t64970\t報告委員我想這樣子的一個說法太這個這個比較簡化你把它說明清楚是我想跟委員報告是這樣就是說賴總統當然他會延續原來蔡總統所說的社會住宅興建的部分但是因為社會住宅的興建在過去執行的層面當中第一個我們變成是找公有地然後用公務機關的預算然後蓋這麼多社會住宅\n68152\t74039\t那這樣子累積下來到所謂的20萬戶或30萬戶的時候所動用到的公務預算是非常的龐大跟驚人我想你應該了解所以我們在財務槓桿的這個情況之下要重新思考怎麼樣可以多元取得社會住宅\n85834\t112479\t那所謂多元取得社會住宅呢現在行政院也照會在協商當中第一個能不能讓這個私人的企業加進來譬如說本來是希望找這個所謂的這個保險的這個事業或者保險公司一起來加入第二個我們能不能看現在的國公營事業裡面他們原來就要蓋的這個社會住宅的話可以導入社會住宅另外一個有沒有可能透過\n113539\t141166\t都更或者是整體開發計畫然後在自償率大家是可以接受的狀況之下讓他們很多私人的資金可以進來然後我們用分回取得的方式那包括可能會牽涉到這個榮獎的部分那這些大概有三四個以上的多元取得社宅興建的土地跟資金正在盤點當中所以我們朝著這個興辦社會住宅的方向並沒有改變但是\n143446\t170450\t用公有的土地用公務預算來蓋這個社會住宅這個呢花費的預算跟成本確實是太高我們可能要做一下修正好那請教一下部長齁就是說你說這一個用公有的土地來蓋社宅的這個政策會做修正那其中有一項我先問一下現在有關於說地方政府他們如果說這一個整體的這一個開發不論是區段徵收或是做都更那如果\n171410\t183558\t這個我們有相關的規定要求他們有一定的比例比如說5%3%到5%要做社會住宅那這個是我們還要中央還要出錢給地方嗎還是地方他們自己要來就可以來蓋了\n185405\t203347\t我說明一下好了那當然我們是希望該社宅不會只有中央的責任地方政府本來就應該要擔負責任尤其整開地區在取得上相對是比較容易的那所以我們在這方面一方面要求這個地方政府要保留那有一部分呢\n204348\t223859\t如果是在這個區塊裡面有國公有的土地那這個部分我們會優先整合進來來做興建那如果他是屬於地方政府的那當然我們會希望地方政府你要自己要優先來做那也不可以說全部都要丟給中央來興建我想這個部分中央跟地方大家還是要一起承擔責任\n224759\t249332\t那第二就是說我們會先優選在區位比較適合而且確定大概開發以後很快就會有年輕人會有需要的族群會進來所以我們會選擇確定就是適合的區位再進來而不是全面大灑灑的方式其實有些區位比較相對比較偏僻的那也不一定都很適合我想這個政策的方向會朝這個樣子來做好那我請教一下署長\n249952\t255216\t那所以說現在關於這個整體開發地區的用地我們還要再去買嗎\n256653\t284464\t因為我看到這一個媒體有講說我們還要花費800億然後在整個我們計畫的4成以上還要再去買買這個土地有這個預算嗎我們現在目前來講是希望就國公營土地的話國公營事業的土地的話那我們就優先採用會是用租用的方式租用的方式那如果地方政府那我們希望他優先或是大家改用租用的方式來處理那這樣的話其實相對都是節省成本的一個做法\n284724\t306438\t所以就不用去買了就是用租用的方式對 盡量用租用的方式來處理那這樣金額就可以降下很多啦所以這也是我為所說明在多元取得的方式裡面這些都是其中的一種那也有一些用合作開發也就是它本來是希望朝向設定地上權的它是住宅區那我們就是用設定地上權加容積獎勵\n309240\t333213\t來多取得社宅這也是一種方法所以會用很多元的方式朝向最有利的方式來取得那我請教一下就是說這些蓋社宅的錢是從住宅基金來的嗎那我問一下現在住宅基金現在的金額還有多少說明一下我們到現在目前都是靠行政院撥補的所以每年大概都是到撥補\n334754\t358239\t兩百億兩百億這樣的撥補的話那有一些是從房地合一稅那有些就是從行政專案撥補所以當然會面對未來還是有財政收支花文法的一個挑戰所以我們也常常不斷思考多元取得也是用這個方式來降低整個住宅基金的一個負擔我這邊有個資料說一百一十三年的時候住宅基金的這個短處有達到一百五十二億\n361013\t377262\t行政院都會撥補我再請教一下除了行政院的撥補之外你剛剛署長有提到說這一個房地合一稅那房地合一稅是從這個113年開始之後就是說至少要提撥10%給我們的住宅基金那請問一下都有撥補到10%的這個他說不低於10%一方面給長照 二方面是給我們住宅基金那這兩年有撥到10%嗎\n389456\t404288\t到目前是還沒有啦不過運的這個目標是沒有變因為它那個部分是一個動態的因為它有一些會移到長照有一些撥給長照有一些撥到我們這邊本來就有規定說要給長照用要給素材機器用啊所以它是用這樣子雙向再調整對啊\n405590\t420426\t所以我的意思是說長照其實都有都有拿到足夠的錢另外一部分就是住宅基金的部分的話我看這兩年都沒有拿到百分之十啊是不過行政院還是會其他的不足的部分他還是會用他\n421434\t447059\t有夠用就可以了不是 因為就牽扯到就是說我們的這個租金補貼也是來自住宅基金啊是對啊 這就是環環相扣的啊是對啊 因為我們住宅基金本來是說可以從一部分從防疫核地稅裡面拿過來那也沒有拿到那麼多有 現在拿到 有拿到不到10%啦 對不對對那沒有拿到那麼多 剩下就是變成說由這個中央要來補\n449076\t464429\t那就回到剛剛部長提到我們這個財務法新的財務法通過之後有3700多億下放給地方了對不對我們中央已經沒有這麼多的錢了所以就是說如果這筆錢租金補貼是從這個住宅基金那邊\n466290\t484283\t補貼就從這邊出去的話第一個你從房地合約稅這邊過來的錢就不夠了第二個你又從這個中央又有3700多位到了地方去那我們又沒有這麼多錢補到這個住宅基金嘛那所以當然相對的也會影響到說我們對於這個地方的租金的補貼吧所以這是扣在一起的啊\n485490\t499100\t對啊 所以這個關於這個因為成本法已經沒有辦法這個新財法已經通過了那我是說關於這個房地合約稅本來規定說至少要10%給我們住宅基金的這個有沒有辦法去要求啊\n501100\t528851\t報告委員我們會來爭取啦這個應該是到我們住宅基金的房地合一稅我們會來爭取但是因為行政院他們在撥補預算的時候他們也有考量到說我們以租金補貼為主的部分不夠所以才會每年撥補200億那200億裡面如果你用這個房地合一稅的話其實他就差不多是這個規模啦所以他他從哪裡的稅收撥到這裡面去是行政院主計總處他在做的這個裁量所以\n529572\t542945\t對我們來講 我們收入裡面有這個Quota給我們那我們就很高興但是如果不夠的10%是按照法定應該給的話我們會去爭取對 還要去爭取 還說不低於10%呢是是好 OK 好 謝謝謝謝李坤臣委員\n","txt":"謝謝主席我們請劉部長還有這個國土署的吳署長劉部長吳署長有請\n委員好部長好請教一下有媒體講說政府有百萬租家庭的支持計畫從2024年到2032年要計畫增加要多蓋13萬的社會住宅內政部去年8月也有提出一個新建的計畫其中包含租金補貼包租代管都已經核定但是新建設宅的計畫還沒有被核定有這件事情嗎\n報告委員我想這樣子的一個說法太這個這個比較簡化你把它說明清楚是我想跟委員報告是這樣就是說賴總統當然他會延續原來蔡總統所說的社會住宅興建的部分但是因為社會住宅的興建在過去執行的層面當中第一個我們變成是找公有地然後用公務機關的預算然後蓋這麼多社會住宅\n那這樣子累積下來到所謂的20萬戶或30萬戶的時候所動用到的公務預算是非常的龐大跟驚人我想你應該了解所以我們在財務槓桿的這個情況之下要重新思考怎麼樣可以多元取得社會住宅\n那所謂多元取得社會住宅呢現在行政院也照會在協商當中第一個能不能讓這個私人的企業加進來譬如說本來是希望找這個所謂的這個保險的這個事業或者保險公司一起來加入第二個我們能不能看現在的國公營事業裡面他們原來就要蓋的這個社會住宅的話可以導入社會住宅另外一個有沒有可能透過\n都更或者是整體開發計畫然後在自償率大家是可以接受的狀況之下讓他們很多私人的資金可以進來然後我們用分回取得的方式那包括可能會牽涉到這個榮獎的部分那這些大概有三四個以上的多元取得社宅興建的土地跟資金正在盤點當中所以我們朝著這個興辦社會住宅的方向並沒有改變但是\n用公有的土地用公務預算來蓋這個社會住宅這個呢花費的預算跟成本確實是太高我們可能要做一下修正好那請教一下部長齁就是說你說這一個用公有的土地來蓋社宅的這個政策會做修正那其中有一項我先問一下現在有關於說地方政府他們如果說這一個整體的這一個開發不論是區段徵收或是做都更那如果\n這個我們有相關的規定要求他們有一定的比例比如說5%3%到5%要做社會住宅那這個是我們還要中央還要出錢給地方嗎還是地方他們自己要來就可以來蓋了\n我說明一下好了那當然我們是希望該社宅不會只有中央的責任地方政府本來就應該要擔負責任尤其整開地區在取得上相對是比較容易的那所以我們在這方面一方面要求這個地方政府要保留那有一部分呢\n如果是在這個區塊裡面有國公有的土地那這個部分我們會優先整合進來來做興建那如果他是屬於地方政府的那當然我們會希望地方政府你要自己要優先來做那也不可以說全部都要丟給中央來興建我想這個部分中央跟地方大家還是要一起承擔責任\n那第二就是說我們會先優選在區位比較適合而且確定大概開發以後很快就會有年輕人會有需要的族群會進來所以我們會選擇確定就是適合的區位再進來而不是全面大灑灑的方式其實有些區位比較相對比較偏僻的那也不一定都很適合我想這個政策的方向會朝這個樣子來做好那我請教一下署長\n那所以說現在關於這個整體開發地區的用地我們還要再去買嗎\n因為我看到這一個媒體有講說我們還要花費800億然後在整個我們計畫的4成以上還要再去買買這個土地有這個預算嗎我們現在目前來講是希望就國公營土地的話國公營事業的土地的話那我們就優先採用會是用租用的方式租用的方式那如果地方政府那我們希望他優先或是大家改用租用的方式來處理那這樣的話其實相對都是節省成本的一個做法\n所以就不用去買了就是用租用的方式對 盡量用租用的方式來處理那這樣金額就可以降下很多啦所以這也是我為所說明在多元取得的方式裡面這些都是其中的一種那也有一些用合作開發也就是它本來是希望朝向設定地上權的它是住宅區那我們就是用設定地上權加容積獎勵\n來多取得社宅這也是一種方法所以會用很多元的方式朝向最有利的方式來取得那我請教一下就是說這些蓋社宅的錢是從住宅基金來的嗎那我問一下現在住宅基金現在的金額還有多少說明一下我們到現在目前都是靠行政院撥補的所以每年大概都是到撥補\n兩百億兩百億這樣的撥補的話那有一些是從房地合一稅那有些就是從行政專案撥補所以當然會面對未來還是有財政收支花文法的一個挑戰所以我們也常常不斷思考多元取得也是用這個方式來降低整個住宅基金的一個負擔我這邊有個資料說一百一十三年的時候住宅基金的這個短處有達到一百五十二億\n行政院都會撥補我再請教一下除了行政院的撥補之外你剛剛署長有提到說這一個房地合一稅那房地合一稅是從這個113年開始之後就是說至少要提撥10%給我們的住宅基金那請問一下都有撥補到10%的這個他說不低於10%一方面給長照 二方面是給我們住宅基金那這兩年有撥到10%嗎\n到目前是還沒有啦不過運的這個目標是沒有變因為它那個部分是一個動態的因為它有一些會移到長照有一些撥給長照有一些撥到我們這邊本來就有規定說要給長照用要給素材機器用啊所以它是用這樣子雙向再調整對啊\n所以我的意思是說長照其實都有都有拿到足夠的錢另外一部分就是住宅基金的部分的話我看這兩年都沒有拿到百分之十啊是不過行政院還是會其他的不足的部分他還是會用他\n有夠用就可以了不是 因為就牽扯到就是說我們的這個租金補貼也是來自住宅基金啊是對啊 這就是環環相扣的啊是對啊 因為我們住宅基金本來是說可以從一部分從防疫核地稅裡面拿過來那也沒有拿到那麼多有 現在拿到 有拿到不到10%啦 對不對對那沒有拿到那麼多 剩下就是變成說由這個中央要來補\n那就回到剛剛部長提到我們這個財務法新的財務法通過之後有3700多億下放給地方了對不對我們中央已經沒有這麼多的錢了所以就是說如果這筆錢租金補貼是從這個住宅基金那邊\n補貼就從這邊出去的話第一個你從房地合約稅這邊過來的錢就不夠了第二個你又從這個中央又有3700多位到了地方去那我們又沒有這麼多錢補到這個住宅基金嘛那所以當然相對的也會影響到說我們對於這個地方的租金的補貼吧所以這是扣在一起的啊\n對啊 所以這個關於這個因為成本法已經沒有辦法這個新財法已經通過了那我是說關於這個房地合約稅本來規定說至少要10%給我們住宅基金的這個有沒有辦法去要求啊\n報告委員我們會來爭取啦這個應該是到我們住宅基金的房地合一稅我們會來爭取但是因為行政院他們在撥補預算的時候他們也有考量到說我們以租金補貼為主的部分不夠所以才會每年撥補200億那200億裡面如果你用這個房地合一稅的話其實他就差不多是這個規模啦所以他他從哪裡的稅收撥到這裡面去是行政院主計總處他在做的這個裁量所以\n對我們來講 我們收入裡面有這個Quota給我們那我們就很高興但是如果不夠的10%是按照法定應該給的話我們會去爭取對 還要去爭取 還說不低於10%呢是是好 OK 好 謝謝謝謝李坤臣委員\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:05.254 --> 00:07.878\n謝謝主席我們請劉部長還有這個國土署的吳署長劉部長吳署長有請\n\n00:12.701 --> 00:39.719\n委員好部長好請教一下有媒體講說政府有百萬租家庭的支持計畫從2024年到2032年要計畫增加要多蓋13萬的社會住宅內政部去年8月也有提出一個新建的計畫其中包含租金補貼包租代管都已經核定但是新建設宅的計畫還沒有被核定有這件事情嗎\n\n00:41.052 --> 01:04.970\n報告委員我想這樣子的一個說法太這個這個比較簡化你把它說明清楚是我想跟委員報告是這樣就是說賴總統當然他會延續原來蔡總統所說的社會住宅興建的部分但是因為社會住宅的興建在過去執行的層面當中第一個我們變成是找公有地然後用公務機關的預算然後蓋這麼多社會住宅\n\n01:08.152 --> 01:14.039\n那這樣子累積下來到所謂的20萬戶或30萬戶的時候所動用到的公務預算是非常的龐大跟驚人我想你應該了解所以我們在財務槓桿的這個情況之下要重新思考怎麼樣可以多元取得社會住宅\n\n01:25.834 --> 01:52.479\n那所謂多元取得社會住宅呢現在行政院也照會在協商當中第一個能不能讓這個私人的企業加進來譬如說本來是希望找這個所謂的這個保險的這個事業或者保險公司一起來加入第二個我們能不能看現在的國公營事業裡面他們原來就要蓋的這個社會住宅的話可以導入社會住宅另外一個有沒有可能透過\n\n01:53.539 --> 02:21.166\n都更或者是整體開發計畫然後在自償率大家是可以接受的狀況之下讓他們很多私人的資金可以進來然後我們用分回取得的方式那包括可能會牽涉到這個榮獎的部分那這些大概有三四個以上的多元取得社宅興建的土地跟資金正在盤點當中所以我們朝著這個興辦社會住宅的方向並沒有改變但是\n\n02:23.446 --> 02:50.450\n用公有的土地用公務預算來蓋這個社會住宅這個呢花費的預算跟成本確實是太高我們可能要做一下修正好那請教一下部長齁就是說你說這一個用公有的土地來蓋社宅的這個政策會做修正那其中有一項我先問一下現在有關於說地方政府他們如果說這一個整體的這一個開發不論是區段徵收或是做都更那如果\n\n02:51.410 --> 03:03.558\n這個我們有相關的規定要求他們有一定的比例比如說5%3%到5%要做社會住宅那這個是我們還要中央還要出錢給地方嗎還是地方他們自己要來就可以來蓋了\n\n03:05.405 --> 03:23.347\n我說明一下好了那當然我們是希望該社宅不會只有中央的責任地方政府本來就應該要擔負責任尤其整開地區在取得上相對是比較容易的那所以我們在這方面一方面要求這個地方政府要保留那有一部分呢\n\n03:24.348 --> 03:43.859\n如果是在這個區塊裡面有國公有的土地那這個部分我們會優先整合進來來做興建那如果他是屬於地方政府的那當然我們會希望地方政府你要自己要優先來做那也不可以說全部都要丟給中央來興建我想這個部分中央跟地方大家還是要一起承擔責任\n\n03:44.759 --> 04:09.332\n那第二就是說我們會先優選在區位比較適合而且確定大概開發以後很快就會有年輕人會有需要的族群會進來所以我們會選擇確定就是適合的區位再進來而不是全面大灑灑的方式其實有些區位比較相對比較偏僻的那也不一定都很適合我想這個政策的方向會朝這個樣子來做好那我請教一下署長\n\n04:09.952 --> 04:15.216\n那所以說現在關於這個整體開發地區的用地我們還要再去買嗎\n\n04:16.653 --> 04:44.464\n因為我看到這一個媒體有講說我們還要花費800億然後在整個我們計畫的4成以上還要再去買買這個土地有這個預算嗎我們現在目前來講是希望就國公營土地的話國公營事業的土地的話那我們就優先採用會是用租用的方式租用的方式那如果地方政府那我們希望他優先或是大家改用租用的方式來處理那這樣的話其實相對都是節省成本的一個做法\n\n04:44.724 --> 05:06.438\n所以就不用去買了就是用租用的方式對盡量用租用的方式來處理那這樣金額就可以降下很多啦所以這也是我為所說明在多元取得的方式裡面這些都是其中的一種那也有一些用合作開發也就是它本來是希望朝向設定地上權的它是住宅區那我們就是用設定地上權加容積獎勵\n\n05:09.240 --> 05:33.213\n來多取得社宅這也是一種方法所以會用很多元的方式朝向最有利的方式來取得那我請教一下就是說這些蓋社宅的錢是從住宅基金來的嗎那我問一下現在住宅基金現在的金額還有多少說明一下我們到現在目前都是靠行政院撥補的所以每年大概都是到撥補\n\n05:34.754 --> 05:58.239\n兩百億兩百億這樣的撥補的話那有一些是從房地合一稅那有些就是從行政專案撥補所以當然會面對未來還是有財政收支花文法的一個挑戰所以我們也常常不斷思考多元取得也是用這個方式來降低整個住宅基金的一個負擔我這邊有個資料說一百一十三年的時候住宅基金的這個短處有達到一百五十二億\n\n06:01.013 --> 06:17.262\n行政院都會撥補我再請教一下除了行政院的撥補之外你剛剛署長有提到說這一個房地合一稅那房地合一稅是從這個113年開始之後就是說至少要提撥10%給我們的住宅基金那請問一下都有撥補到10%的這個他說不低於10%一方面給長照二方面是給我們住宅基金那這兩年有撥到10%嗎\n\n06:29.456 --> 06:44.288\n到目前是還沒有啦不過運的這個目標是沒有變因為它那個部分是一個動態的因為它有一些會移到長照有一些撥給長照有一些撥到我們這邊本來就有規定說要給長照用要給素材機器用啊所以它是用這樣子雙向再調整對啊\n\n06:45.590 --> 07:00.426\n所以我的意思是說長照其實都有都有拿到足夠的錢另外一部分就是住宅基金的部分的話我看這兩年都沒有拿到百分之十啊是不過行政院還是會其他的不足的部分他還是會用他\n\n07:01.434 --> 07:27.059\n有夠用就可以了不是因為就牽扯到就是說我們的這個租金補貼也是來自住宅基金啊是對啊這就是環環相扣的啊是對啊因為我們住宅基金本來是說可以從一部分從防疫核地稅裡面拿過來那也沒有拿到那麼多有現在拿到有拿到不到10%啦對不對對那沒有拿到那麼多剩下就是變成說由這個中央要來補\n\n07:29.076 --> 07:44.429\n那就回到剛剛部長提到我們這個財務法新的財務法通過之後有3700多億下放給地方了對不對我們中央已經沒有這麼多的錢了所以就是說如果這筆錢租金補貼是從這個住宅基金那邊\n\n07:46.290 --> 08:04.283\n補貼就從這邊出去的話第一個你從房地合約稅這邊過來的錢就不夠了第二個你又從這個中央又有3700多位到了地方去那我們又沒有這麼多錢補到這個住宅基金嘛那所以當然相對的也會影響到說我們對於這個地方的租金的補貼吧所以這是扣在一起的啊\n\n08:05.490 --> 08:19.100\n對啊所以這個關於這個因為成本法已經沒有辦法這個新財法已經通過了那我是說關於這個房地合約稅本來規定說至少要10%給我們住宅基金的這個有沒有辦法去要求啊\n\n08:21.100 --> 08:48.851\n報告委員我們會來爭取啦這個應該是到我們住宅基金的房地合一稅我們會來爭取但是因為行政院他們在撥補預算的時候他們也有考量到說我們以租金補貼為主的部分不夠所以才會每年撥補200億那200億裡面如果你用這個房地合一稅的話其實他就差不多是這個規模啦所以他他從哪裡的稅收撥到這裡面去是行政院主計總處他在做的這個裁量所以\n\n08:49.572 --> 09:02.945\n對我們來講我們收入裡面有這個Quota給我們那我們就很高興但是如果不夠的10%是按照法定應該給的話我們會去爭取對還要去爭取還說不低於10%呢是是好OK好謝謝謝謝李坤臣委員\n\n","segments":[{"start":5.254,"end":7.878,"text":"謝謝主席我們請劉部長還有這個國土署的吳署長劉部長吳署長有請"},{"start":12.701,"end":39.719,"text":"委員好部長好請教一下有媒體講說政府有百萬租家庭的支持計畫從2024年到2032年要計畫增加要多蓋13萬的社會住宅內政部去年8月也有提出一個新建的計畫其中包含租金補貼包租代管都已經核定但是新建設宅的計畫還沒有被核定有這件事情嗎"},{"start":41.052,"end":64.97,"text":"報告委員我想這樣子的一個說法太這個這個比較簡化你把它說明清楚是我想跟委員報告是這樣就是說賴總統當然他會延續原來蔡總統所說的社會住宅興建的部分但是因為社會住宅的興建在過去執行的層面當中第一個我們變成是找公有地然後用公務機關的預算然後蓋這麼多社會住宅"},{"start":68.152,"end":74.039,"text":"那這樣子累積下來到所謂的20萬戶或30萬戶的時候所動用到的公務預算是非常的龐大跟驚人我想你應該了解所以我們在財務槓桿的這個情況之下要重新思考怎麼樣可以多元取得社會住宅"},{"start":85.834,"end":112.479,"text":"那所謂多元取得社會住宅呢現在行政院也照會在協商當中第一個能不能讓這個私人的企業加進來譬如說本來是希望找這個所謂的這個保險的這個事業或者保險公司一起來加入第二個我們能不能看現在的國公營事業裡面他們原來就要蓋的這個社會住宅的話可以導入社會住宅另外一個有沒有可能透過"},{"start":113.539,"end":141.166,"text":"都更或者是整體開發計畫然後在自償率大家是可以接受的狀況之下讓他們很多私人的資金可以進來然後我們用分回取得的方式那包括可能會牽涉到這個榮獎的部分那這些大概有三四個以上的多元取得社宅興建的土地跟資金正在盤點當中所以我們朝著這個興辦社會住宅的方向並沒有改變但是"},{"start":143.446,"end":170.45,"text":"用公有的土地用公務預算來蓋這個社會住宅這個呢花費的預算跟成本確實是太高我們可能要做一下修正好那請教一下部長齁就是說你說這一個用公有的土地來蓋社宅的這個政策會做修正那其中有一項我先問一下現在有關於說地方政府他們如果說這一個整體的這一個開發不論是區段徵收或是做都更那如果"},{"start":171.41,"end":183.558,"text":"這個我們有相關的規定要求他們有一定的比例比如說5%3%到5%要做社會住宅那這個是我們還要中央還要出錢給地方嗎還是地方他們自己要來就可以來蓋了"},{"start":185.405,"end":203.347,"text":"我說明一下好了那當然我們是希望該社宅不會只有中央的責任地方政府本來就應該要擔負責任尤其整開地區在取得上相對是比較容易的那所以我們在這方面一方面要求這個地方政府要保留那有一部分呢"},{"start":204.348,"end":223.859,"text":"如果是在這個區塊裡面有國公有的土地那這個部分我們會優先整合進來來做興建那如果他是屬於地方政府的那當然我們會希望地方政府你要自己要優先來做那也不可以說全部都要丟給中央來興建我想這個部分中央跟地方大家還是要一起承擔責任"},{"start":224.759,"end":249.332,"text":"那第二就是說我們會先優選在區位比較適合而且確定大概開發以後很快就會有年輕人會有需要的族群會進來所以我們會選擇確定就是適合的區位再進來而不是全面大灑灑的方式其實有些區位比較相對比較偏僻的那也不一定都很適合我想這個政策的方向會朝這個樣子來做好那我請教一下署長"},{"start":249.952,"end":255.216,"text":"那所以說現在關於這個整體開發地區的用地我們還要再去買嗎"},{"start":256.653,"end":284.464,"text":"因為我看到這一個媒體有講說我們還要花費800億然後在整個我們計畫的4成以上還要再去買買這個土地有這個預算嗎我們現在目前來講是希望就國公營土地的話國公營事業的土地的話那我們就優先採用會是用租用的方式租用的方式那如果地方政府那我們希望他優先或是大家改用租用的方式來處理那這樣的話其實相對都是節省成本的一個做法"},{"start":284.724,"end":306.438,"text":"所以就不用去買了就是用租用的方式對 盡量用租用的方式來處理那這樣金額就可以降下很多啦所以這也是我為所說明在多元取得的方式裡面這些都是其中的一種那也有一些用合作開發也就是它本來是希望朝向設定地上權的它是住宅區那我們就是用設定地上權加容積獎勵"},{"start":309.24,"end":333.213,"text":"來多取得社宅這也是一種方法所以會用很多元的方式朝向最有利的方式來取得那我請教一下就是說這些蓋社宅的錢是從住宅基金來的嗎那我問一下現在住宅基金現在的金額還有多少說明一下我們到現在目前都是靠行政院撥補的所以每年大概都是到撥補"},{"start":334.754,"end":358.239,"text":"兩百億兩百億這樣的撥補的話那有一些是從房地合一稅那有些就是從行政專案撥補所以當然會面對未來還是有財政收支花文法的一個挑戰所以我們也常常不斷思考多元取得也是用這個方式來降低整個住宅基金的一個負擔我這邊有個資料說一百一十三年的時候住宅基金的這個短處有達到一百五十二億"},{"start":361.013,"end":377.262,"text":"行政院都會撥補我再請教一下除了行政院的撥補之外你剛剛署長有提到說這一個房地合一稅那房地合一稅是從這個113年開始之後就是說至少要提撥10%給我們的住宅基金那請問一下都有撥補到10%的這個他說不低於10%一方面給長照 二方面是給我們住宅基金那這兩年有撥到10%嗎"},{"start":389.456,"end":404.288,"text":"到目前是還沒有啦不過運的這個目標是沒有變因為它那個部分是一個動態的因為它有一些會移到長照有一些撥給長照有一些撥到我們這邊本來就有規定說要給長照用要給素材機器用啊所以它是用這樣子雙向再調整對啊"},{"start":405.59,"end":420.426,"text":"所以我的意思是說長照其實都有都有拿到足夠的錢另外一部分就是住宅基金的部分的話我看這兩年都沒有拿到百分之十啊是不過行政院還是會其他的不足的部分他還是會用他"},{"start":421.434,"end":447.059,"text":"有夠用就可以了不是 因為就牽扯到就是說我們的這個租金補貼也是來自住宅基金啊是對啊 這就是環環相扣的啊是對啊 因為我們住宅基金本來是說可以從一部分從防疫核地稅裡面拿過來那也沒有拿到那麼多有 現在拿到 有拿到不到10%啦 對不對對那沒有拿到那麼多 剩下就是變成說由這個中央要來補"},{"start":449.076,"end":464.429,"text":"那就回到剛剛部長提到我們這個財務法新的財務法通過之後有3700多億下放給地方了對不對我們中央已經沒有這麼多的錢了所以就是說如果這筆錢租金補貼是從這個住宅基金那邊"},{"start":466.29,"end":484.283,"text":"補貼就從這邊出去的話第一個你從房地合約稅這邊過來的錢就不夠了第二個你又從這個中央又有3700多位到了地方去那我們又沒有這麼多錢補到這個住宅基金嘛那所以當然相對的也會影響到說我們對於這個地方的租金的補貼吧所以這是扣在一起的啊"},{"start":485.49,"end":499.1,"text":"對啊 所以這個關於這個因為成本法已經沒有辦法這個新財法已經通過了那我是說關於這個房地合約稅本來規定說至少要10%給我們住宅基金的這個有沒有辦法去要求啊"},{"start":501.1,"end":528.851,"text":"報告委員我們會來爭取啦這個應該是到我們住宅基金的房地合一稅我們會來爭取但是因為行政院他們在撥補預算的時候他們也有考量到說我們以租金補貼為主的部分不夠所以才會每年撥補200億那200億裡面如果你用這個房地合一稅的話其實他就差不多是這個規模啦所以他他從哪裡的稅收撥到這裡面去是行政院主計總處他在做的這個裁量所以"},{"start":529.572,"end":542.945,"text":"對我們來講 我們收入裡面有這個Quota給我們那我們就很高興但是如果不夠的10%是按照法定應該給的話我們會去爭取對 還要去爭取 還說不低於10%呢是是好 OK 好 謝謝謝謝李坤臣委員"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":809,"blocks":[["李委員坤城：（11時59分）謝謝主席。請劉部長，還有國土署吳署長。"],["主席：請劉部長、吳署長。"],["劉部長世芳：委員好。"],["李委員坤城：部長好。請教一下，媒體說賴政府有百萬租屋家庭支持計畫，從2024年到2032年計畫要多蓋13萬戶社會住宅，內政部去年8月也有提出一個新建的計畫，其中包含租金補貼、包租代管都已經核定，但是新建社宅的計畫還沒有被核定，有這件事情嗎？"],["劉部長世芳：報告委員，這樣的說法比較簡化。"],["李委員坤城：沒關係，你把它說明清楚。"],["劉部長世芳：賴總統當然會延續原來蔡總統所說的社會住宅新建的部分，但是社會住宅興建在過去執行的層面當中，第一個，我們找公有地、用公務預算蓋這麼多社會住宅，這樣累積下來到20萬戶或30萬戶所動用的公務預算非常龐大和驚人。我想你應該了解，所以我們在財務槓桿的情況下要重新思考怎樣可以多元取得社會住宅。所謂多元取得社會住宅，現在行政院也照會在協商當中：第一個，能不能讓私人企業加進來，例如本來是希望找保險事業、保險公司一起加入。第二個，我們看看現在的國公營事業原來就要蓋住宅的話，可以導入社會住宅。另外，有沒有可能透過都更或整體開發計畫，在自償率大家都可以接受的情況下，讓很多私人的資金可以進來，我們用分回取得的方式，包括可能會牽涉到容獎的部分。大概有三、四個以上多元取得社宅興建的土地和資金正在盤點當中，所以我們朝著興辦社會住宅的方向並沒有改變，但是用公有的土地、用公務預算來蓋社會住宅，花費的預算和成本確實太高，我們可能要做一下修正。"],["李委員坤城：你說用公有的土地來蓋社宅這個政策會修正。現在地方政府如果做整體開發，不論區段徵收或都更，如果有相關的規定要求它們要有一定的比率，例如5%……"],["劉部長世芳：3%到5%。"],["李委員坤城：3%到5%要做社會住宅，這個是中央還要出錢給地方嗎？還是地方自己就可以蓋？"],["吳署長欣修：我們希望蓋社宅不會只有中央的責任，地方政府本來就應該要擔負責任，尤其整開地區在取得上相對比較容易，所以我們一方面要求地方政府要保留，一方面如果在區塊裡面有國公有土地，這部分我們會優先整合進來興建；如果它是屬於地方政府的，我們會希望地方政府要優先來做，不可以全部丟給中央來興建，這部分中央和地方還是要一起承擔責任。第二，我們會優選在區位比較適合的，而且確定開發以後很快就會有年青人或有需要的族群進來，所以我們會選擇適合的區位，而不是全面大撒的方式，因為有些區位相對比較偏僻的，不一定都很適合，我想政策方向會朝這樣來做。"],["李委員坤城：現在關於整體開發地區的用地，我們還要去買嗎？因為我看到媒體說我們還要花費800億元，占整個計畫四成以上，還要買土地，有這個預算嗎？"],["吳署長欣修：目前是希望國公營事業土地優先採用或租用的方式。"],["李委員坤城：租用的方式？"],["吳署長欣修：是，如果地方政府，我們希望它優先，或者大家改用租用的方式來處理，這樣相對都是節省成本的作法。"],["李委員坤城：所以就不用去買了？"],["吳署長欣修：是。"],["李委員坤城：就是用租用的方式？"],["吳署長欣修：對，盡量用租用的方式來處理。"],["李委員坤城：這樣金額就可以降很多。"],["吳署長欣修：是，在多元取得的方式，這些都是其中的一種，也有一些是用合作開發，也就是本來是希望朝向設定地上權的，它是住宅區，我們就是用設定地上權加容積獎勵來多取得社宅，這也是一種方法，所以會用很多元的方式、朝向最有利的方式來取得。"],["李委員坤城：這些蓋社宅的錢是從住宅基金來的嗎？"],["吳署長欣修：是。"],["李委員坤城：現在住宅基金還有多少？"],["吳署長欣修：我們到目前都是靠行政院撥補，每年大概都是撥補200億元，有一些是從房地合一稅，有一些則是從行政院專案撥補，所以未來還是會面對財政收支劃分法的挑戰，所以我們也不斷思考多元取得，也是用這個方式來降低整個住宅基金的負擔。"],["李委員坤城：我這邊有個資料，113年住宅基金短絀達到152億元？"],["吳署長欣修：行政院都會撥補。"],["李委員坤城：除了行政院撥補之外，署長剛剛還有提到房地合一稅，房地合一稅是從113年開始之後，至少有提撥10%給住宅基金，規定是不低於10%，一方面給長照、一方面給住宅基金，這兩年有撥到10%嗎？"],["吳署長欣修：到目前還沒有，不過院的目標沒有變，因為那個部分是動態的，有一些會撥給長照，有一些撥到我們這邊。"],["李委員坤城：它本來就有規定要給長照用，也給住宅基金用。"],["吳署長欣修：對，所以它是這樣雙向調整。"],["李委員坤城：我的意思是說長照都有拿到足夠的錢，另外住宅基金的部分，我看這兩年都沒有拿到10%，大概拿到幾%？"],["吳署長欣修：其他不足的部分，行政院還是會撥補，夠用就可以了。"],["李委員坤城：因為租金補貼也是來自住宅基金，這是環環相扣的，本來住宅基金可以從房地合一稅拿過來，也沒拿到那麼多，現在不到10%，對不對？"],["吳署長欣修：對。"],["李委員坤城：沒有拿到那麼多，剩下就是變成由中央來補。回到剛剛部長提到，新的財劃法通過之後，有三千七百多億元下放給地方了，中央已經沒有這麼多錢了。如果租金補貼是從住宅基金出去的，第一個，你從房地合一稅過來的錢就不夠了。第二個，中央又有三千七百多億元到地方，又沒有這麼多錢補到住宅基金，相對的也會影響到租金補貼，這是扣在一起的。因為新的財劃法已經通過了，關於房地合一稅本來規定至少要10%給住宅基金，這個有沒有辦法去要求？"],["劉部長世芳：我們會來爭取應該到住宅基金的房地合一稅，但是行政院在撥補預算的時候也有考量到以租金補貼為主的部分不夠，所以才會每年撥補200億元，如果用房地合一稅的話，其實差不多是這個規模。從哪裡的稅收撥到這裡面是行政院主計總處的裁量，對我們來講，我們收入裡面有這個額度給我們，我們就很高興，如果不夠法定應該給的10%，我們會去爭取。"],["李委員坤城：對，要去爭取，最低是10%，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝李坤城委員。","接著請謝龍介委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":466,"meet_id":"委員會-11-3-15-26","speakers":["牛煦庭","蘇巧慧","張智倫","張宏陸","王美惠","黃捷","麥玉珍","黃建賓","李柏毅","吳琪銘","丁學忠","徐欣瑩","許宇甄","李坤城","謝龍介","黃國昌","王育敏","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","黃健豪","高金素梅","楊瓊瓔"],"page_start":371,"meetingDate":["2025-06-18"],"gazette_id":"1146201","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1146201_00014"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期內政委員會第26次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、邀請內政部部長、行政院消費者保護處處長就「公寓大廈公設點交爭議及其處理與預防作\n為」進行專題報告，並備質詢；二、「住宅法」：(一)繼續審查委員郭昱晴等17人擬具「住宅法\n第四條條文修正草案」案、(二)繼續審查委員黃健豪等16人擬具「住宅法第四條條文修正草案」\n案、(三)繼續審查委員徐巧芯等20人擬具「住宅法第二十三條條文修正草案」案、(四)繼續審查\n委員林岱樺等17人擬具「住宅法第二十五條條文修正草案」案、(五)繼續審查委員賴士葆等17人\n擬具「住宅法第十五條及第二十三條條文修正草案」案、( 六) 繼續審查委員牛煦庭等16 人擬具\n「住宅法第十條及第五十七條之一條文修正草案」案、(七)繼續審查委員翁曉玲等16人擬具「住\n宅法第四條條文修正草案」案、(八)繼續審查委員李彥秀等17人擬具「住宅法第十五條及第二十\n三條條文修正草案」案、 ( 九) 繼續審查委員羅智強等16 人擬具「住宅法第二十五條條文修正草\n案」案、(十)繼續審查台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「住宅法部分條文修正草案」案、(十一)繼續審查委\n員蘇巧慧等17人擬具「住宅法第四條條文修正草案」案、(十二)繼續審查委員牛煦庭等17人擬具\n「住宅法增訂第二十一條之一條文草案」案、(十三)繼續審查委員林思銘等21人擬具「住宅法部\n分條文修正草案」案、( 十四) 繼續審查委員李坤城等24 人擬具「住宅法第四條條文修正草案」\n案、(十五)繼續審查委員徐欣瑩等26人擬具「住宅法部分條文修正草案」案、(十六)繼續審查委\n員馬文君等19人擬具「住宅法第四條條文修正草案」案、(十七)繼續審查委員高金素梅等27人擬\n具「住宅法部分條文修正草案」案、(十八)繼續審查委員鄭天財 Sra Kacaw 等18人擬具「住宅法\n第二條條文修正草案」案、(十九)繼續審查委員吳沛憶等17人擬具「住宅法第二十二條及第二十\n三條條文修正草案」案、 ( 二十) 繼續審查委員林倩綺等23 人擬具「住宅法部分條文修正草案」\n案、(二十一)審查委員王鴻薇等20人擬具「住宅法第四條條文修正草案」案、(二十二)審查委員\n陳素月等17人擬具「住宅法第四條條文修正草案」案、(二十三)審查委員陳菁徽等18人擬具「住\n宅法第四條條文修正草案」案、( 二十四) 審查委員許宇甄等20 人擬具「住宅法部分條文修正草\n案」案、(二十五)審查委員范雲等17人擬具「住宅法部分條文修正草案」案、(二十六)審查委員\n林月琴等19人擬具「住宅法部分條文修正草案」案、(二十七)審查委員楊曜等22人擬具「住宅法\n第二十五條條文修正草案」案、(二十八)審查委員羅廷瑋等17人擬具「住宅法第四條、第十五條\n及第二十三條條文修正草案」案、(二十九)審查委員王美惠等17人擬具「住宅法第四條條文修正\n草案」案、(三十)審查委員邱鎮軍等19人擬具「住宅法第四條條文修正草案」案、(三十一)審查\n委員蘇巧慧等17 人擬具「住宅法部分條文修正草案」案、 ( 三十二) 審查委員羅明才等16 人擬具\n「住宅法第四條條文修正草案」案、(三十三)審查委員李柏毅等16人擬具「住宅法增訂第四條之\n一條文草案」案、(三十四)審查委員王育敏等17人擬具「住宅法第四條、第十九條及第二十條條\n文修正草案」案、(三十五)審查委員楊瓊瓔等21人擬具「住宅法第四條條文修正草案」案、(三\n十六)審查委員游顥等17人擬具「住宅法第四條條文修正草案」案、(三十七)審查委員羅智強等\n16人擬具「住宅法第四十條及第四十三條條文修正草案」案、(三十八)審查委員葉元之等19人擬\n具「住宅法第四條條文修正草案」案【進行專題報告及詢答，並宣讀住宅法第 ( 二十一) 案至第\n(三十八)案提案條文】","agenda_id":"1146201_00015"}}}