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{\"word\": \"求\", \"start\": 454.569, \"end\": 454.969, \"score\": 0.9}, {\"word\": \"請\"}, {\"word\": \"他\", \"start\": 454.969, \"end\": 455.069, \"score\": 0.799}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"協\"}, {\"word\": \"助\", \"start\": 455.069, \"end\": 455.089, \"score\": 0.0}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:03,325 --> 00:00:04,349\n好謝謝主席一樣邀請我們黃部長請部長\n\n2\n00:00:12,432 --> 00:00:33,587\n部長好不好意思喔那就跟您繼續這個延伸請教這個憑證的問題啦那最起碼我們是中華電信的客戶嘛對不對我們來跟他買服務那他目前他因為他被撤銷這個資格他沒有辦法繼續來提供我們的服務那他可能會有一些違約的情況對那我們我有看到新聞說我們會跟中華電信來做球場嘛\n\n3\n00:00:34,187 --> 00:00:45,836\n我想確認一下我們今年度跟中華電信的合約的金額是多少那我們在合約裡面有沒有做明確的規範我們會給他做多少金額的求償我們請肅政司王市長做報告\n\n4\n00:00:48,254 --> 00:01:16,189\n報告委員我們這個今年跟他的案子裡面他其實這個功能是包括在一個大的一個案子裡面那裡面的項目這一項大概是三百到五百萬之間那我們裡面有包括對於廠商的SLA的這個部分那裡面有一項他有這個違反那這個部分的話我們已經會跟他求償總契約是三百到五百嘛那除了我們我們除了不會支付這個服務技術費用之外我們會跟他求償那你求償合約裡面有寫什麼求償嗎還是\n\n5\n00:01:17,870 --> 00:01:44,688\n另外談合約裡面我們是用祭典的方式就是他的這一項是他沒有在Balila上面他有做這樣子的一個好的回應被人家發現說他裡面有些瑕疵這個部分我們是祭的那你可不可以簡單說我們會跟中華電信求償多少金額這個部分我們後面會再去看因為這個案子還沒有到結束所以我們會看他實際最後是不是持續的會有\n\n6\n00:01:45,208 --> 00:02:01,237\n那很明確的剛剛部長說你要重新申請一個發展的一個這個資格的話最起碼是六年到抱歉最起碼是六到九個月嘛那最起碼是今年都沒有辦法了嘛那所以你應該可以很輕易的確認今年他是沒有辦法完成我們的合約嘛\n\n7\n00:02:02,116 --> 00:02:21,083\n所以你到現在還沒有辦法算出來我們要跟中華電信球場羅上這個部分的話因為他的在合約期間之內他的憑證是可以用的他現在是重點換證嘛第一個換證的部分他沒有後續前面的服務履約了我們當然給他錢嘛後面沒辦法履約了不給付之外我們也會跟他做球場嘛\n\n8\n00:02:23,002 --> 00:02:32,190\n對,但是在那段時間,我們這個月已經結束了但是我們在約之前,他在我們換證的時候,我們雙憑證的那個憑證有一個憑證,他們是無償的這個賠償的無償賠償?對對對,就是他會提供那個憑證\n\n9\n00:02:42,103 --> 00:02:55,237\n所以他會在他是可能在七月底截止嘛他會幫忙說可能在八月以後要換約的證要換金的證他全部都會幫我們在他還能夠發證的期間全部發完所以說\n\n10\n00:02:57,299 --> 00:03:12,766\n他會幫我們履約但是他有相關的可能可能不符合我們服務當初契約的東西我們還是會跟他求償但求償多少你現在沒統計出來現在那邊有一個實際的一個最精確的一個數字好那所以說服務還是會提供是好\n\n11\n00:03:13,126 --> 00:03:28,593\n那因為我們今年初就大概知道這個問題了嘛對不對所以說你們導入了雙憑證的一個制度那我們雙憑證就要去跟另外一間廠商簽服務契約嘛那另外因為這個事件衍生出來的費用你們花了多少錢\n\n12\n00:03:30,714 --> 00:03:46,786\n跟委員報告其實雙憑證這件事情並不是因為這件事件我們才開始規劃你們這件事老實這樣講你們說你們今年三月的時候發現了所以你們要趕快因應中華電信沒有辦法發憑證所以你們要找另外一家廠商來做服務我們在去年就已經規劃要做雙憑證因為這個在網站這個憑證是比較重要的\n\n13\n00:03:50,689 --> 00:04:07,781\n本來的規劃是在今年底到明年要去實行但是因為這個事件所以我們把時程提前所以本來就我在要做這件事情並不是說額外再去另外一個緊急的經費來所以往後每一年都會用雙憑證的一個制度去做對對對\n\n14\n00:04:08,922 --> 00:04:34,171\n那對於另外一家廠商的採購你們有沒有因為時程的提前來可能增加服務的人家的要求增加服務的費用等等因為本來就已經在規劃在今年底要完成所以我們經費本來就已經有編載那邊了好那我如果說對方的廠商有沒有因為契約的變更來要求這個溢價之類的倒是沒有沒有嘛那就是照原本的合約去做變更去走這樣子\n\n15\n00:04:35,145 --> 00:04:55,760\n好那後續來跟這個中華電信做可能違約補償的部分那你要麻煩我們出發部後續來做確定之後那也跟教育會來做一個回報好不好好謝謝那部長那繼續跟您請教這個今天主題是一個AI那AI講求就是算力算力的話就是要用電力來支撐\n\n16\n00:04:56,894 --> 00:05:13,467\n那我們有沒有統計我們未來國家因應發展AI會需要產生多大的電力需求你們有沒有分年度的去做一個階段性的檢討明年後年或大後年AI的產業需要多少的電力資源\n\n17\n00:05:14,247 --> 00:05:37,241\n算力的部分因為剛剛講就是說這個目前因為我們有一個新的要推動是AI十大建設那裡面有些算力的規劃那這個東西還沒有確定那規劃出來以後那個這部算力主要是經濟部會提供資料所以這部但電這種東西不是說我們今天要就要嗎對不對所以你們到現在還沒有跟經濟部去明確的跟他說我們為了發展AI我們需要多少電\n\n18\n00:05:38,894 --> 00:05:58,404\n還沒有還沒有到那麼細不過就說算力的那個我們現在是講說以前叫因為目前不論是國際上還是我們台灣我們的中澳民國國民對於台電能不能穩定供電的這件事情大家有很多的討論有很多人有很多的懷疑\n\n19\n00:05:59,645 --> 00:06:15,048\n包括美國為了因應這個AI算力的電力的需求他們也開始在盤點了他們美國國內的電力需要多少然後往後幾年要增加哪一些電廠現在都已經在做了結果我們現在\n\n20\n00:06:16,149 --> 00:06:27,654\n我們連盤點需要多少電力都還沒有這個階段都還沒有完成我們的台電也完全不知道我們未來要多少的電力才能滿足我們的AI需求算力的規劃現在是在經濟部所以經濟部當然同時會考慮電力所以這部應該是他們會有更多資料我們現在手上沒有\n\n21\n00:06:36,761 --> 00:07:01,969\n算力你說經濟部統計不是你這邊在統計因為我們剛剛講AI實在建設裡面有一個叫算力的建制算力建制目前這個主管機關是經濟部好吧我不管你們怎麼分工啦那我會認為說這是很明確的的剛需它是AI發展的剛需除了算力之外就是電力缺一不可嘛那我們的電力不是說今天要明天就有它都是需要尤其現在台灣\n\n22\n00:07:03,988 --> 00:07:21,877\n撇開政治的問題要增加電廠什麼東西都是很困難的一件事情那我們的需求儘早來提出來然後給經濟部給台電公司告訴他未來幾年我們的成長幅度有多大他才能夠儘早去溝通甚至是規劃然後跟國民溝通相關的必要性\n\n23\n00:07:22,677 --> 00:07:35,089\n好不好希望部長這邊事情我們要再加強啦好不好加快相關的不是只提供願景而是在基礎建設的部分也要跨部會的來溝通來提早提出需求請他們來協助\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n3325\t4349\t好 謝謝主席 一樣邀請我們黃部長請部長\n12432\t33587\t部長好 不好意思喔 那就跟您繼續這個延伸請教這個憑證的問題啦那最起碼我們是中華電信的客戶嘛 對不對我們來跟他買服務 那他目前他因為他被撤銷這個資格 他沒有辦法繼續來提供我們的服務那他可能會有一些違約的情況對 那我們 我有看到新聞說我們會跟中華電信來做球場嘛\n34187\t45836\t我想確認一下我們今年度跟中華電信的合約的金額是多少那我們在合約裡面有沒有做明確的規範我們會給他做多少金額的求償我們請肅政司王市長做報告\n48254\t76189\t報告委員我們這個今年跟他的案子裡面他其實這個功能是包括在一個大的一個案子裡面那裡面的項目這一項大概是三百到五百萬之間那我們裡面有包括對於廠商的SLA的這個部分那裡面有一項他有這個違反那這個部分的話我們已經會跟他求償總契約是三百到五百嘛那除了我們我們除了不會支付這個服務技術費用之外我們會跟他求償那你求償合約裡面有寫什麼求償嗎還是\n77870\t104688\t另外談 合約裡面我們是用祭典的方式就是他的這一項是他沒有在Balila上面他有做這樣子的一個好的回應被人家發現說他裡面有些瑕疵 這個部分我們是祭的那你可不可以簡單說我們會跟中華電信求償多少金額這個部分我們後面會再去看因為這個案子還沒有到結束所以我們會看他實際最後是不是持續的會有\n105208\t121237\t那很明確的剛剛部長說你要重新申請一個發展的一個這個資格的話最起碼是六年到抱歉最起碼是六到九個月嘛那最起碼是今年都沒有辦法了嘛那所以你應該可以很輕易的確認今年他是沒有辦法完成我們的合約嘛\n122116\t141083\t所以你到現在還沒有辦法算出來我們要跟中華電信球場羅上這個部分的話因為他的在合約期間之內他的憑證是可以用的他現在是重點換證嘛第一個換證的部分他沒有後續前面的服務履約了我們當然給他錢嘛後面沒辦法履約了不給付之外我們也會跟他做球場嘛\n143002\t152190\t對,但是在那段時間,我們這個月已經結束了但是我們在約之前,他在我們換證的時候,我們雙憑證的那個憑證有一個憑證,他們是無償的這個賠償的無償賠償?對對對,就是他會提供那個憑證\n162103\t175237\t所以他會在 他是可能在七月底截止嘛他會幫忙說可能在八月以後要換約的證要換金的證 他全部都會幫我們在他還能夠發證的期間全部發完所以說\n177299\t192766\t他會幫我們履約但是他有相關的可能可能不符合我們服務當初契約的東西我們還是會跟他求償但求償多少你現在沒統計出來現在那邊有一個實際的一個最精確的一個數字好那所以說服務還是會提供是好\n193126\t208593\t那因為我們今年初就大概知道這個問題了嘛對不對所以說你們導入了雙憑證的一個制度那我們雙憑證就要去跟另外一間廠商簽服務契約嘛那另外因為這個事件衍生出來的費用你們花了多少錢\n210714\t226786\t跟委員報告 其實雙憑證這件事情並不是因為這件事件我們才開始規劃你們這件事老實這樣講你們說你們今年三月的時候發現了所以你們要趕快因應中華電信沒有辦法發憑證所以你們要找另外一家廠商來做服務我們在去年就已經規劃要做雙憑證因為這個在網站這個憑證是比較重要的\n230689\t247781\t本來的規劃是在今年底到明年要去實行但是因為這個事件所以我們把時程提前所以本來就我在要做這件事情並不是說額外再去另外一個緊急的經費來所以往後每一年都會用雙憑證的一個制度去做對對對\n248922\t274171\t那對於另外一家廠商的採購你們有沒有因為時程的提前來可能增加服務的人家的要求增加服務的費用等等因為本來就已經在規劃在今年底要完成所以我們經費本來就已經有編載那邊了好那我如果說對方的廠商有沒有因為契約的變更來要求這個溢價之類的倒是沒有沒有嘛那就是照原本的合約去做變更去走這樣子\n275145\t295760\t好那後續來跟這個中華電信做可能違約補償的部分那你要麻煩我們出發部後續來做確定之後那也跟教育會來做一個回報好不好好謝謝那部長那繼續跟您請教這個今天主題是一個AI那AI講求就是算力算力的話就是要用電力來支撐\n296894\t313467\t那我們有沒有統計我們未來國家因應發展AI會需要產生多大的電力需求你們有沒有分年度的去做一個階段性的檢討明年後年或大後年AI的產業需要多少的電力資源\n314247\t337241\t算力的部分因為剛剛講就是說這個目前因為我們有一個新的要推動是AI十大建設那裡面有些算力的規劃那這個東西還沒有確定那規劃出來以後那個這部算力主要是經濟部會提供資料所以這部但電這種東西不是說我們今天要就要嗎對不對所以你們到現在還沒有跟經濟部去明確的跟他說我們為了發展AI我們需要多少電\n338894\t358404\t還沒有還沒有到那麼細不過就說算力的那個我們現在是講說以前叫因為目前不論是國際上還是我們台灣我們的中澳民國國民對於台電能不能穩定供電的這件事情大家有很多的討論有很多人有很多的懷疑\n359645\t375048\t包括美國為了因應這個AI算力的電力的需求他們也開始在盤點了他們美國國內的電力需要多少然後往後幾年要增加哪一些電廠現在都已經在做了結果我們現在\n376149\t387654\t我們連盤點需要多少電力都還沒有這個階段都還沒有完成我們的台電也完全不知道我們未來要多少的電力才能滿足我們的AI需求算力的規劃現在是在經濟部所以經濟部當然同時會考慮電力所以這部應該是他們會有更多資料我們現在手上沒有\n396761\t421969\t算力你說經濟部統計不是你這邊在統計因為我們剛剛講AI實在建設裡面有一個叫算力的建制算力建制目前這個主管機關是經濟部好吧 我不管你們怎麼分工啦那我會認為說這是很明確的的剛需它是AI發展的剛需除了算力之外就是電力 缺一不可嘛那我們的電力不是說今天要 明天就有它都是需要 尤其現在台灣\n423988\t441877\t撇開政治的問題要增加電廠什麼東西都是很困難的一件事情那我們的需求儘早來提出來然後給經濟部給台電公司告訴他未來幾年我們的成長幅度有多大他才能夠儘早去溝通甚至是規劃然後跟國民溝通相關的必要性\n442677\t455089\t好不好 希望部長這邊事情 我們要再加強啦好不好 加快相關的不是只提供願景 而是在基礎建設的部分也要跨部會的來溝通來提早提出需求 請他們來協助\n","txt":"好 謝謝主席 一樣邀請我們黃部長請部長\n部長好 不好意思喔 那就跟您繼續這個延伸請教這個憑證的問題啦那最起碼我們是中華電信的客戶嘛 對不對我們來跟他買服務 那他目前他因為他被撤銷這個資格 他沒有辦法繼續來提供我們的服務那他可能會有一些違約的情況對 那我們 我有看到新聞說我們會跟中華電信來做球場嘛\n我想確認一下我們今年度跟中華電信的合約的金額是多少那我們在合約裡面有沒有做明確的規範我們會給他做多少金額的求償我們請肅政司王市長做報告\n報告委員我們這個今年跟他的案子裡面他其實這個功能是包括在一個大的一個案子裡面那裡面的項目這一項大概是三百到五百萬之間那我們裡面有包括對於廠商的SLA的這個部分那裡面有一項他有這個違反那這個部分的話我們已經會跟他求償總契約是三百到五百嘛那除了我們我們除了不會支付這個服務技術費用之外我們會跟他求償那你求償合約裡面有寫什麼求償嗎還是\n另外談 合約裡面我們是用祭典的方式就是他的這一項是他沒有在Balila上面他有做這樣子的一個好的回應被人家發現說他裡面有些瑕疵 這個部分我們是祭的那你可不可以簡單說我們會跟中華電信求償多少金額這個部分我們後面會再去看因為這個案子還沒有到結束所以我們會看他實際最後是不是持續的會有\n那很明確的剛剛部長說你要重新申請一個發展的一個這個資格的話最起碼是六年到抱歉最起碼是六到九個月嘛那最起碼是今年都沒有辦法了嘛那所以你應該可以很輕易的確認今年他是沒有辦法完成我們的合約嘛\n所以你到現在還沒有辦法算出來我們要跟中華電信球場羅上這個部分的話因為他的在合約期間之內他的憑證是可以用的他現在是重點換證嘛第一個換證的部分他沒有後續前面的服務履約了我們當然給他錢嘛後面沒辦法履約了不給付之外我們也會跟他做球場嘛\n對,但是在那段時間,我們這個月已經結束了但是我們在約之前,他在我們換證的時候,我們雙憑證的那個憑證有一個憑證,他們是無償的這個賠償的無償賠償?對對對,就是他會提供那個憑證\n所以他會在 他是可能在七月底截止嘛他會幫忙說可能在八月以後要換約的證要換金的證 他全部都會幫我們在他還能夠發證的期間全部發完所以說\n他會幫我們履約但是他有相關的可能可能不符合我們服務當初契約的東西我們還是會跟他求償但求償多少你現在沒統計出來現在那邊有一個實際的一個最精確的一個數字好那所以說服務還是會提供是好\n那因為我們今年初就大概知道這個問題了嘛對不對所以說你們導入了雙憑證的一個制度那我們雙憑證就要去跟另外一間廠商簽服務契約嘛那另外因為這個事件衍生出來的費用你們花了多少錢\n跟委員報告 其實雙憑證這件事情並不是因為這件事件我們才開始規劃你們這件事老實這樣講你們說你們今年三月的時候發現了所以你們要趕快因應中華電信沒有辦法發憑證所以你們要找另外一家廠商來做服務我們在去年就已經規劃要做雙憑證因為這個在網站這個憑證是比較重要的\n本來的規劃是在今年底到明年要去實行但是因為這個事件所以我們把時程提前所以本來就我在要做這件事情並不是說額外再去另外一個緊急的經費來所以往後每一年都會用雙憑證的一個制度去做對對對\n那對於另外一家廠商的採購你們有沒有因為時程的提前來可能增加服務的人家的要求增加服務的費用等等因為本來就已經在規劃在今年底要完成所以我們經費本來就已經有編載那邊了好那我如果說對方的廠商有沒有因為契約的變更來要求這個溢價之類的倒是沒有沒有嘛那就是照原本的合約去做變更去走這樣子\n好那後續來跟這個中華電信做可能違約補償的部分那你要麻煩我們出發部後續來做確定之後那也跟教育會來做一個回報好不好好謝謝那部長那繼續跟您請教這個今天主題是一個AI那AI講求就是算力算力的話就是要用電力來支撐\n那我們有沒有統計我們未來國家因應發展AI會需要產生多大的電力需求你們有沒有分年度的去做一個階段性的檢討明年後年或大後年AI的產業需要多少的電力資源\n算力的部分因為剛剛講就是說這個目前因為我們有一個新的要推動是AI十大建設那裡面有些算力的規劃那這個東西還沒有確定那規劃出來以後那個這部算力主要是經濟部會提供資料所以這部但電這種東西不是說我們今天要就要嗎對不對所以你們到現在還沒有跟經濟部去明確的跟他說我們為了發展AI我們需要多少電\n還沒有還沒有到那麼細不過就說算力的那個我們現在是講說以前叫因為目前不論是國際上還是我們台灣我們的中澳民國國民對於台電能不能穩定供電的這件事情大家有很多的討論有很多人有很多的懷疑\n包括美國為了因應這個AI算力的電力的需求他們也開始在盤點了他們美國國內的電力需要多少然後往後幾年要增加哪一些電廠現在都已經在做了結果我們現在\n我們連盤點需要多少電力都還沒有這個階段都還沒有完成我們的台電也完全不知道我們未來要多少的電力才能滿足我們的AI需求算力的規劃現在是在經濟部所以經濟部當然同時會考慮電力所以這部應該是他們會有更多資料我們現在手上沒有\n算力你說經濟部統計不是你這邊在統計因為我們剛剛講AI實在建設裡面有一個叫算力的建制算力建制目前這個主管機關是經濟部好吧 我不管你們怎麼分工啦那我會認為說這是很明確的的剛需它是AI發展的剛需除了算力之外就是電力 缺一不可嘛那我們的電力不是說今天要 明天就有它都是需要 尤其現在台灣\n撇開政治的問題要增加電廠什麼東西都是很困難的一件事情那我們的需求儘早來提出來然後給經濟部給台電公司告訴他未來幾年我們的成長幅度有多大他才能夠儘早去溝通甚至是規劃然後跟國民溝通相關的必要性\n好不好 希望部長這邊事情 我們要再加強啦好不好 加快相關的不是只提供願景 而是在基礎建設的部分也要跨部會的來溝通來提早提出需求 請他們來協助\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:03.325 --> 00:04.349\n好謝謝主席一樣邀請我們黃部長請部長\n\n00:12.432 --> 00:33.587\n部長好不好意思喔那就跟您繼續這個延伸請教這個憑證的問題啦那最起碼我們是中華電信的客戶嘛對不對我們來跟他買服務那他目前他因為他被撤銷這個資格他沒有辦法繼續來提供我們的服務那他可能會有一些違約的情況對那我們我有看到新聞說我們會跟中華電信來做球場嘛\n\n00:34.187 --> 00:45.836\n我想確認一下我們今年度跟中華電信的合約的金額是多少那我們在合約裡面有沒有做明確的規範我們會給他做多少金額的求償我們請肅政司王市長做報告\n\n00:48.254 --> 01:16.189\n報告委員我們這個今年跟他的案子裡面他其實這個功能是包括在一個大的一個案子裡面那裡面的項目這一項大概是三百到五百萬之間那我們裡面有包括對於廠商的SLA的這個部分那裡面有一項他有這個違反那這個部分的話我們已經會跟他求償總契約是三百到五百嘛那除了我們我們除了不會支付這個服務技術費用之外我們會跟他求償那你求償合約裡面有寫什麼求償嗎還是\n\n01:17.870 --> 01:44.688\n另外談合約裡面我們是用祭典的方式就是他的這一項是他沒有在Balila上面他有做這樣子的一個好的回應被人家發現說他裡面有些瑕疵這個部分我們是祭的那你可不可以簡單說我們會跟中華電信求償多少金額這個部分我們後面會再去看因為這個案子還沒有到結束所以我們會看他實際最後是不是持續的會有\n\n01:45.208 --> 02:01.237\n那很明確的剛剛部長說你要重新申請一個發展的一個這個資格的話最起碼是六年到抱歉最起碼是六到九個月嘛那最起碼是今年都沒有辦法了嘛那所以你應該可以很輕易的確認今年他是沒有辦法完成我們的合約嘛\n\n02:02.116 --> 02:21.083\n所以你到現在還沒有辦法算出來我們要跟中華電信球場羅上這個部分的話因為他的在合約期間之內他的憑證是可以用的他現在是重點換證嘛第一個換證的部分他沒有後續前面的服務履約了我們當然給他錢嘛後面沒辦法履約了不給付之外我們也會跟他做球場嘛\n\n02:23.002 --> 02:32.190\n對,但是在那段時間,我們這個月已經結束了但是我們在約之前,他在我們換證的時候,我們雙憑證的那個憑證有一個憑證,他們是無償的這個賠償的無償賠償?對對對,就是他會提供那個憑證\n\n02:42.103 --> 02:55.237\n所以他會在他是可能在七月底截止嘛他會幫忙說可能在八月以後要換約的證要換金的證他全部都會幫我們在他還能夠發證的期間全部發完所以說\n\n02:57.299 --> 03:12.766\n他會幫我們履約但是他有相關的可能可能不符合我們服務當初契約的東西我們還是會跟他求償但求償多少你現在沒統計出來現在那邊有一個實際的一個最精確的一個數字好那所以說服務還是會提供是好\n\n03:13.126 --> 03:28.593\n那因為我們今年初就大概知道這個問題了嘛對不對所以說你們導入了雙憑證的一個制度那我們雙憑證就要去跟另外一間廠商簽服務契約嘛那另外因為這個事件衍生出來的費用你們花了多少錢\n\n03:30.714 --> 03:46.786\n跟委員報告其實雙憑證這件事情並不是因為這件事件我們才開始規劃你們這件事老實這樣講你們說你們今年三月的時候發現了所以你們要趕快因應中華電信沒有辦法發憑證所以你們要找另外一家廠商來做服務我們在去年就已經規劃要做雙憑證因為這個在網站這個憑證是比較重要的\n\n03:50.689 --> 04:07.781\n本來的規劃是在今年底到明年要去實行但是因為這個事件所以我們把時程提前所以本來就我在要做這件事情並不是說額外再去另外一個緊急的經費來所以往後每一年都會用雙憑證的一個制度去做對對對\n\n04:08.922 --> 04:34.171\n那對於另外一家廠商的採購你們有沒有因為時程的提前來可能增加服務的人家的要求增加服務的費用等等因為本來就已經在規劃在今年底要完成所以我們經費本來就已經有編載那邊了好那我如果說對方的廠商有沒有因為契約的變更來要求這個溢價之類的倒是沒有沒有嘛那就是照原本的合約去做變更去走這樣子\n\n04:35.145 --> 04:55.760\n好那後續來跟這個中華電信做可能違約補償的部分那你要麻煩我們出發部後續來做確定之後那也跟教育會來做一個回報好不好好謝謝那部長那繼續跟您請教這個今天主題是一個AI那AI講求就是算力算力的話就是要用電力來支撐\n\n04:56.894 --> 05:13.467\n那我們有沒有統計我們未來國家因應發展AI會需要產生多大的電力需求你們有沒有分年度的去做一個階段性的檢討明年後年或大後年AI的產業需要多少的電力資源\n\n05:14.247 --> 05:37.241\n算力的部分因為剛剛講就是說這個目前因為我們有一個新的要推動是AI十大建設那裡面有些算力的規劃那這個東西還沒有確定那規劃出來以後那個這部算力主要是經濟部會提供資料所以這部但電這種東西不是說我們今天要就要嗎對不對所以你們到現在還沒有跟經濟部去明確的跟他說我們為了發展AI我們需要多少電\n\n05:38.894 --> 05:58.404\n還沒有還沒有到那麼細不過就說算力的那個我們現在是講說以前叫因為目前不論是國際上還是我們台灣我們的中澳民國國民對於台電能不能穩定供電的這件事情大家有很多的討論有很多人有很多的懷疑\n\n05:59.645 --> 06:15.048\n包括美國為了因應這個AI算力的電力的需求他們也開始在盤點了他們美國國內的電力需要多少然後往後幾年要增加哪一些電廠現在都已經在做了結果我們現在\n\n06:16.149 --> 06:27.654\n我們連盤點需要多少電力都還沒有這個階段都還沒有完成我們的台電也完全不知道我們未來要多少的電力才能滿足我們的AI需求算力的規劃現在是在經濟部所以經濟部當然同時會考慮電力所以這部應該是他們會有更多資料我們現在手上沒有\n\n06:36.761 --> 07:01.969\n算力你說經濟部統計不是你這邊在統計因為我們剛剛講AI實在建設裡面有一個叫算力的建制算力建制目前這個主管機關是經濟部好吧我不管你們怎麼分工啦那我會認為說這是很明確的的剛需它是AI發展的剛需除了算力之外就是電力缺一不可嘛那我們的電力不是說今天要明天就有它都是需要尤其現在台灣\n\n07:03.988 --> 07:21.877\n撇開政治的問題要增加電廠什麼東西都是很困難的一件事情那我們的需求儘早來提出來然後給經濟部給台電公司告訴他未來幾年我們的成長幅度有多大他才能夠儘早去溝通甚至是規劃然後跟國民溝通相關的必要性\n\n07:22.677 --> 07:35.089\n好不好希望部長這邊事情我們要再加強啦好不好加快相關的不是只提供願景而是在基礎建設的部分也要跨部會的來溝通來提早提出需求請他們來協助\n\n","segments":[{"start":3.325,"end":4.349,"text":"好 謝謝主席 一樣邀請我們黃部長請部長"},{"start":12.432,"end":33.587,"text":"部長好 不好意思喔 那就跟您繼續這個延伸請教這個憑證的問題啦那最起碼我們是中華電信的客戶嘛 對不對我們來跟他買服務 那他目前他因為他被撤銷這個資格 他沒有辦法繼續來提供我們的服務那他可能會有一些違約的情況對 那我們 我有看到新聞說我們會跟中華電信來做球場嘛"},{"start":34.187,"end":45.836,"text":"我想確認一下我們今年度跟中華電信的合約的金額是多少那我們在合約裡面有沒有做明確的規範我們會給他做多少金額的求償我們請肅政司王市長做報告"},{"start":48.254,"end":76.189,"text":"報告委員我們這個今年跟他的案子裡面他其實這個功能是包括在一個大的一個案子裡面那裡面的項目這一項大概是三百到五百萬之間那我們裡面有包括對於廠商的SLA的這個部分那裡面有一項他有這個違反那這個部分的話我們已經會跟他求償總契約是三百到五百嘛那除了我們我們除了不會支付這個服務技術費用之外我們會跟他求償那你求償合約裡面有寫什麼求償嗎還是"},{"start":77.87,"end":104.688,"text":"另外談 合約裡面我們是用祭典的方式就是他的這一項是他沒有在Balila上面他有做這樣子的一個好的回應被人家發現說他裡面有些瑕疵 這個部分我們是祭的那你可不可以簡單說我們會跟中華電信求償多少金額這個部分我們後面會再去看因為這個案子還沒有到結束所以我們會看他實際最後是不是持續的會有"},{"start":105.208,"end":121.237,"text":"那很明確的剛剛部長說你要重新申請一個發展的一個這個資格的話最起碼是六年到抱歉最起碼是六到九個月嘛那最起碼是今年都沒有辦法了嘛那所以你應該可以很輕易的確認今年他是沒有辦法完成我們的合約嘛"},{"start":122.116,"end":141.083,"text":"所以你到現在還沒有辦法算出來我們要跟中華電信球場羅上這個部分的話因為他的在合約期間之內他的憑證是可以用的他現在是重點換證嘛第一個換證的部分他沒有後續前面的服務履約了我們當然給他錢嘛後面沒辦法履約了不給付之外我們也會跟他做球場嘛"},{"start":143.002,"end":152.19,"text":"對,但是在那段時間,我們這個月已經結束了但是我們在約之前,他在我們換證的時候,我們雙憑證的那個憑證有一個憑證,他們是無償的這個賠償的無償賠償?對對對,就是他會提供那個憑證"},{"start":162.103,"end":175.237,"text":"所以他會在 他是可能在七月底截止嘛他會幫忙說可能在八月以後要換約的證要換金的證 他全部都會幫我們在他還能夠發證的期間全部發完所以說"},{"start":177.299,"end":192.766,"text":"他會幫我們履約但是他有相關的可能可能不符合我們服務當初契約的東西我們還是會跟他求償但求償多少你現在沒統計出來現在那邊有一個實際的一個最精確的一個數字好那所以說服務還是會提供是好"},{"start":193.126,"end":208.593,"text":"那因為我們今年初就大概知道這個問題了嘛對不對所以說你們導入了雙憑證的一個制度那我們雙憑證就要去跟另外一間廠商簽服務契約嘛那另外因為這個事件衍生出來的費用你們花了多少錢"},{"start":210.714,"end":226.786,"text":"跟委員報告 其實雙憑證這件事情並不是因為這件事件我們才開始規劃你們這件事老實這樣講你們說你們今年三月的時候發現了所以你們要趕快因應中華電信沒有辦法發憑證所以你們要找另外一家廠商來做服務我們在去年就已經規劃要做雙憑證因為這個在網站這個憑證是比較重要的"},{"start":230.689,"end":247.781,"text":"本來的規劃是在今年底到明年要去實行但是因為這個事件所以我們把時程提前所以本來就我在要做這件事情並不是說額外再去另外一個緊急的經費來所以往後每一年都會用雙憑證的一個制度去做對對對"},{"start":248.922,"end":274.171,"text":"那對於另外一家廠商的採購你們有沒有因為時程的提前來可能增加服務的人家的要求增加服務的費用等等因為本來就已經在規劃在今年底要完成所以我們經費本來就已經有編載那邊了好那我如果說對方的廠商有沒有因為契約的變更來要求這個溢價之類的倒是沒有沒有嘛那就是照原本的合約去做變更去走這樣子"},{"start":275.145,"end":295.76,"text":"好那後續來跟這個中華電信做可能違約補償的部分那你要麻煩我們出發部後續來做確定之後那也跟教育會來做一個回報好不好好謝謝那部長那繼續跟您請教這個今天主題是一個AI那AI講求就是算力算力的話就是要用電力來支撐"},{"start":296.894,"end":313.467,"text":"那我們有沒有統計我們未來國家因應發展AI會需要產生多大的電力需求你們有沒有分年度的去做一個階段性的檢討明年後年或大後年AI的產業需要多少的電力資源"},{"start":314.247,"end":337.241,"text":"算力的部分因為剛剛講就是說這個目前因為我們有一個新的要推動是AI十大建設那裡面有些算力的規劃那這個東西還沒有確定那規劃出來以後那個這部算力主要是經濟部會提供資料所以這部但電這種東西不是說我們今天要就要嗎對不對所以你們到現在還沒有跟經濟部去明確的跟他說我們為了發展AI我們需要多少電"},{"start":338.894,"end":358.404,"text":"還沒有還沒有到那麼細不過就說算力的那個我們現在是講說以前叫因為目前不論是國際上還是我們台灣我們的中澳民國國民對於台電能不能穩定供電的這件事情大家有很多的討論有很多人有很多的懷疑"},{"start":359.645,"end":375.048,"text":"包括美國為了因應這個AI算力的電力的需求他們也開始在盤點了他們美國國內的電力需要多少然後往後幾年要增加哪一些電廠現在都已經在做了結果我們現在"},{"start":376.149,"end":387.654,"text":"我們連盤點需要多少電力都還沒有這個階段都還沒有完成我們的台電也完全不知道我們未來要多少的電力才能滿足我們的AI需求算力的規劃現在是在經濟部所以經濟部當然同時會考慮電力所以這部應該是他們會有更多資料我們現在手上沒有"},{"start":396.761,"end":421.969,"text":"算力你說經濟部統計不是你這邊在統計因為我們剛剛講AI實在建設裡面有一個叫算力的建制算力建制目前這個主管機關是經濟部好吧 我不管你們怎麼分工啦那我會認為說這是很明確的的剛需它是AI發展的剛需除了算力之外就是電力 缺一不可嘛那我們的電力不是說今天要 明天就有它都是需要 尤其現在台灣"},{"start":423.988,"end":441.877,"text":"撇開政治的問題要增加電廠什麼東西都是很困難的一件事情那我們的需求儘早來提出來然後給經濟部給台電公司告訴他未來幾年我們的成長幅度有多大他才能夠儘早去溝通甚至是規劃然後跟國民溝通相關的必要性"},{"start":442.677,"end":455.089,"text":"好不好 希望部長這邊事情 我們要再加強啦好不好 加快相關的不是只提供願景 而是在基礎建設的部分也要跨部會的來溝通來提早提出需求 請他們來協助"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":916,"blocks":[["廖委員先翔：（12時10分）謝謝主席，一樣要請我們的黃部長。"],["主席：請部長。"],["黃部長彥男：廖委員好。"],["廖委員先翔：部長好。部長，不好意思！繼續向你延伸請教憑證的問題。我們是中華電信的客戶，對不對？我們向它購買服務，但目前因為它被撤銷資格，沒辦法繼續為我們提供服務，可能會產生一些違約的情況。我看到新聞報導說我們會向中華電信求償，所以我想確認一下，今年度我們與中華電信的合約金額是多少？我們在合約裡是否有明確規範要做多少金額的求償？"],["黃部長彥男：我請數政司王司長來報告。"],["廖委員先翔：好。"],["王司長誠明：報告委員，其實這個功能是包含在一個大的案子裡面，這一項大概是300萬至500萬之間，其中也包括對廠商SLA的部分，因為它違反了其中的一項，我們會針對這個部分向它求償。"],["廖委員先翔：總契約是300萬至500萬，我們除了不會支付服務技術費用之外，也會向它求償，在合約裡有寫要如何求償嗎？或是要另外談？"],["王司長誠明：在合約裡是採用記點的方式，因為它對這一項沒有做良好的回應，被人家發現裡面有一些瑕疵，這個部分我們是記了……"],["廖委員先翔：可不可以簡單說明，我們會向中華電信求償多少金額？"],["王司長誠明：關於這個部分，因為這個案子還沒有結束，所以我們會看最後是不是有持續的改善動作。"],["廖委員先翔：剛剛部長說重新申請發證的資格最起碼需要6至9個月，也就是今年已經沒辦法申請到了，你應該可以很容易確認它今年無法完成我們的合約，但是你到現在還無法算出要向中華電信求償多少嗎？"],["王司長誠明：報告委員，因為它的憑證在合約的期間內是可以使用的。"],["廖委員先翔：是啊！換證嘛！"],["王司長誠明：對，第一個，它沒有……"],["廖委員先翔：前面的服務已經履約，我們當然要給它錢，後面沒辦法履約的部分，除了不給付之外，我們還要向它求償嘛！"],["王司長誠明：對，在那段時間這個約已經結束了，但是在換證的時候它對我們有一個雙憑證的憑證是屬於無償的賠償。"],["廖委員先翔：無償賠償？"],["王司長誠明：對，就是它會提供那個憑證。"],["廖委員先翔：它可能到7月底截止，但是對於8月之後要換約的新憑證，在它還能發證的期間會幫忙全部發完？"],["王司長誠明：是的。"],["廖委員先翔：所以它會幫我們履約，但相關無法符合當初契約的部分，我們還是會向它求償，至於要求償多少，你現在還沒統計出來？"],["王司長誠明：現在還沒有一個實際的精確數字。"],["廖委員先翔：所以服務還是會提供？"],["王司長誠明：是。"],["廖委員先翔：因為今年初你們大概就知道這個問題了，對不對？所以你們導入了雙憑證制度，要與另外一家廠商簽服務契約，即因為這個事件衍伸出的費用，你們花了多少錢？"],["王司長誠明：報告委員，我們其實並不是因為今年這個事件才開始規劃雙憑證制度。"],["廖委員先翔：你們之前是這樣講，在今年3月時發現，為了因應中華電信無法發憑證，所以你們要趕快找另外一家廠商來服務。"],["王司長誠明：我們在去年就已經規劃要做雙憑證，因為在網站上這個憑證是比較重要的。原本的規劃是從今年底到明年要實行，但是因為這個事件，所以我們才把它的時程提前。所以本來就打算要做這件事情，並不是額外再撥另外一筆緊急經費來使用。"],["廖委員先翔：所以往後每一年都會用雙憑證制度去做？"],["王司長誠明：對。"],["廖委員先翔：對於另外一家廠商的採購，你們有沒有因為時程的提前而被要求增加服務費用等等？"],["王司長誠明：原本就已經規劃要在今年底完成，所以我們的經費已經編列在那邊了。"],["廖委員先翔：我是問對方廠商有沒有因為契約變更而要求議價之類？"],["王司長誠明：倒是沒有。"],["廖委員先翔：沒有嘛！也就是依照原本的合約去變更、去進行？"],["王司長誠明：是。"],["廖委員先翔：後續向中華電信求償可能違約的部分，麻煩數發部在確定之後再向交委會回報，好不好？"],["黃部長彥男：好。"],["廖委員先翔：謝謝。","部長，繼續向你請教，今天的主題是AI，AI講求的就是算力，而算力就是要靠電力支撐，我們有沒有統計未來國家因應發展AI將會產生多大的電力需求？你們有沒有分年度去做階段性的檢討，明年、後年、大後年，AI產業需要多少的電力支援？"],["黃部長彥男：算力的部分，剛剛講過我們要推動新的AI十大建設，其中有一些算力的規劃，這個東西還沒有確定，在規劃出來之後，這個部分的算力主要是由經濟部提供資料，所以這個部分……"],["廖委員先翔：電這種東西不是我們說今天要就能要，對不對？"],["黃部長彥男：對。"],["廖委員先翔：你們到現在還沒有明確告訴經濟部，為了發展AI需要多少電，還沒有？"],["黃部長彥男：還沒到那麼細的程度，不過，算力的部分……"],["廖委員先翔：目前無論是國際或臺灣的中華民國國民，對於台電能不能穩定供電有很多的討論、也有很多的懷疑，像美國為了因應AI算力的電力需求，他們也開始盤點美國國內需要多少電力，往後幾年要增加哪些電廠，現在都已經在做了，但是我們連盤點需要多少電力這個階段都還沒有完成，而且我們的台電也完全不知道未來需要多少電力才能滿足AI產業的需求，部長，這個進度會不會太慢了？"],["黃部長彥男：算力的規劃是在經濟部，當然經濟部同時也會考慮到電力，他們對這個部分應該會有更多資料，只是現在我的手上並沒有。"],["廖委員先翔：你說算力是由經濟部統計，不是由你們這邊統計？"],["黃部長彥男：剛剛講的AI十大建設中有一個算力的建置，目前它的主管機關是經濟部。"],["廖委員先翔：我不管你們是如何分工，但我認為這是很明確的剛需，它是AI發展的剛需，除了算力之外就是電力，缺一不可。但我們的電力不是今天要明天就有，尤其是在臺灣，撇開政策的問題，想要增加電廠等等都是很困難的一件事情，所以我們應該要儘早把需求提出來，告知經濟部、告知台電公司，未來幾年的成長幅度有多大，他們才能儘早溝通、規劃，甚至與國民溝通相關的必要性，好不好？希望部長對這件事情能再加強，好不好？加快相關的作為，不是只有提供願景，也要在基礎建設的部分進行跨部會的溝通，提早將需求提出來，請他們一起協助。"],["黃部長彥男：我們會與經濟部再繼續討論，謝謝。"],["廖委員先翔：好，謝謝部長、謝謝主席。"],["主席：請游顥委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":442,"meet_id":"委員會-11-3-23-16","speakers":["許智傑","洪孟楷","李昆澤","林國成","陳素月","林俊憲","徐富癸","邱若華","蔡其昌","葛如鈞","劉書彬","黃健豪","張雅琳","翁曉玲","鍾佳濱","葉元之","魯明哲","廖先翔","游顥","王鴻薇","何欣純","楊瓊瓔"],"page_start":379,"meetingDate":["2025-06-18"],"gazette_id":"1146001","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1146001_00012"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期交通委員會第16次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請數位發展部部長黃彥男就「推動 AI 之產業發展政策」進行專題報告，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1146001_00016"}}}