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\"text\": \"因為她可能為了要照顧小孩她照顧很多事情她最後因為沒有辦法fulfill企業的需求她就會選擇離開嘛但是如果我們進入更多彈性工時的工作的模式的話這個工作的制度再設計的話那是不是就可以讓這些女性可以更有機會能夠留在職場所以我想要請問一下說我們是不是可以針對部分工時的這件事情再去做一些鬆綁因為我知道現在我們在討論彈性育嬰溜庭的時候其實也是在往這個方向來努力嘛\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"因\", \"start\": 543.251, \"end\": 543.351, \"score\": 0.796}, {\"word\": \"為\"}, {\"word\": \"她\", \"start\": 543.351, \"end\": 543.491, \"score\": 0.726}, {\"word\": \"可\", \"start\": 543.491, \"end\": 543.571, \"score\": 0.893}, {\"word\": \"能\", \"start\": 543.571, \"end\": 543.811, \"score\": 0.783}, {\"word\": \"為\"}, {\"word\": \"了\", \"start\": 543.811, \"end\": 543.872, \"score\": 0.931}, {\"word\": \"要\", \"start\": 543.872, \"end\": 544.032, \"score\": 0.975}, {\"word\": \"照\", \"start\": 544.032, \"end\": 544.312, \"score\": 0.806}, {\"word\": \"顧\"}, {\"word\": \"小\", \"start\": 544.312, \"end\": 544.512, \"score\": 0.935}, {\"word\": \"孩\", \"start\": 544.512, \"end\": 544.752, \"score\": 0.953}, {\"word\": \"她\", \"start\": 544.752, \"end\": 544.872, 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00:01:18,888\n他們有說他們回到職場之後根據111人力銀行的調查認為說其實是頗為困難46.9%的人認為那其中有38%的人覺得相當吃力那甚至說只有6.8%的人覺得說他是可以順利回來所以等於是說他們回到職場上他們想要回去可是難度非常的高\n\n4\n00:01:20,149 --> 00:01:36,174\n那這是第一個我們待會會問的就是有關於我們婦女的這個再就業計畫那第二個主題想要來講是說我們的女性的勞參與跟男性來比其實相對來說我們可以看到深色的那條黑色線男性的這個職場參與率呢到50歲以\n\n5\n00:01:37,915 --> 00:01:53,155\n錢喔都還是維持在一個將近90%的一個參與率可是我們的女性呢是從29歲以後開始一路往下掉那這件事情我們可以非常清楚的知道生小孩了嘛可能要照顧家庭結婚了嘛這是第一個那再來我們再來看跟亞洲相比我們現在\n\n6\n00:01:54,016 --> 00:02:13,845\n跟亞洲相比我們除了29歲是一個年紀我們從45歲以後我們是雪崩式下跌而且是遠低於我們的日本新加坡跟韓國所以這個是什麼這是因為他長照的時候可能又進來這是第二個他會面臨到必須要離開職場的問題所以好我們先回來第一個題目\n\n7\n00:02:15,990 --> 00:02:32,617\n就是在我們現在的這個女性勞動力的參與力的女性的這個婦女在就業的這個方案裡面呢其實我們是有提供了一系列的一些就業措施啦育嬰留庭啦或者是推動企業參與員工子女為什麼按不到下頁啊好\n\n8\n00:02:36,189 --> 00:02:54,240\n好等等我們可是呢我也依據2019年的中高齡婦女的需求研究評估報告他們其實也發現說雖然說他可以回去但是有39.5%的人認為自己的專業度不夠那其實也非常高度的有50%的人認為感到焦慮缺乏信心\n\n9\n00:02:55,060 --> 00:03:13,308\n那同時呢他們也認為說因為他們必須要承擔不管是育兒或長照的責任呢工作彈性不足造成他們必須離職所以這也是其中的第二個原因那再來第三個就是說雖然婦女現在無法下一頁可以幫我按嗎謝謝再上一頁再上一頁再上一頁好\n\n10\n00:03:16,360 --> 00:03:37,812\n好那再來就是說我們的雖然有保障彈性工時但是多數的企業實踐不到位而且呢第四點是很多的雇主認為對於育兒女性其實是一律偏高的也造成他們的招聘率偏低所以我們現在雖然有這個三年期的婦女在就業計畫那我們從112年9月1號上路到115年\n\n11\n00:03:42,134 --> 00:04:05,251\n8月31號預計就要結束了那我看了一下我們目標在2026年的8月我們要達到53.5%可是我看了一下2023年的女性勞參率才51.82%經過了一年半大概也才到51.9%這個中間增加不到1%可是我們如何在只剩下的一年半要提升到增加將近2%呢\n\n12\n00:04:07,093 --> 00:04:11,709\n這個部分我是蠻質疑的是不是可以請部長來告訴我說我們是有可能達到這個數字嗎\n\n13\n00:04:19,741 --> 00:04:45,471\n其實就這個時間點來看當然挑戰是蠻大的那但是我們現在其實我其實也跟法案署其實在討論我們關於我們現在老八署有很多的就業計畫那在他的這個執行率上面會請法案署其實我們再做一輪的檢討甚至一些計畫如果該整病的部分該整病就是希望能夠把\n\n14\n00:04:46,171 --> 00:05:06,666\n就計畫他的執行的效能能夠提升這部分我們會盡力來做所以聽起來是說目前我們現在在重新檢討我們過去的再就業計畫在檢討之後修正嗎應該是不只是只有婦女再就業計畫我們其實有蠻多相關的這些就業促進的計畫\n\n15\n00:05:07,927 --> 00:05:30,042\n其實我都請發案署我們是用一個總體檢的方式再做一次的重新的整理然後希望能夠把執行的效果跟效率能夠提升之前陳新輝委員其實也質詢過這個部分那這個檢討跟這個總體檢的部分目前也如火如荼正在進行之中那就是希望把效能夠再做一些提升\n\n16\n00:05:30,822 --> 00:05:50,977\n那這個總體檢大概是什麼時候會完成我們那時候是希望三個月的時間所以是預計在何時是不是到時候也可以把這份報告提供好不好因為我想因為剛剛其實提到了這個是我們過去發現他們回去職場的時候遇到一些困難所以我認為我們這總體檢應該都要去盤點我們現在所做的一些相關計畫不管是不是婦女在就業計畫都應該去回應這個問題不然這個勞參率永遠都是\n\n17\n00:05:54,580 --> 00:06:20,455\n只能歸步向前那最終犧牲的還是女性那再來下一個題目想要繼續來討論就是說我也想要分享一下日本改革的一個政策的重點那他們其實也是除了就是擴大了育兒支持與托育服務但是他們有一個我覺得蠻重要的點是在於他們樓性工時以及呢他們提供了日本產後爸爸育休的一個育嬰假夏業\n\n18\n00:06:21,595 --> 00:06:49,769\n允許男性在產後八週內分兩次請假政府補助薪資100%那我認為這兩件事情是非常重要的因為台灣的現況是配偶分免的時候他只有七天賠產假那七日內領全薪剩下的在由政府補助兩天可是其實坦白說這樣子的一個制度呢就間接的讓男性認為讓雇主認為育兒是女性的責任\n\n19\n00:06:50,949 --> 00:07:09,498\n所以我認為說我們是不是可以比照日本的機制讓爸爸也可以參與育兒有更多的休假這個部分是可以來往這個方向我們當然是希望這個方向所以不管是剛才在講到暈流亭的彈性化這也是爸爸\n\n20\n00:07:09,938 --> 00:07:27,101\n也是可以來參與的事實上我們也看到當你把這個可以請休的請申請的時間在縮短的時候他可以更彈性的時候這個爸爸他來申請來參與的比率是蠻明顯的顯著的提高的\n\n21\n00:07:28,101 --> 00:07:49,046\n這也是裡面其中一個很重要的誘因那也包括之前在講到說這個暈流停六個月再加一個月為什麼是希望雙親都要期滿六個月才能夠再加一也是希望不要變成最後都是女性在承擔這個照顧小孩的狀況而是希望雙親之間可以平均分攤以後但是如果因為我們剛剛講你剛剛講是談性暈假\n\n22\n00:07:51,627 --> 00:08:12,549\n所以現在這個彈性暈假同樣適用在爸爸這個機制那產後我想我先確認一件事情就是彈性暈假包含了產假還是是不包含的我們現在你們不包含啦當然不包含啦是分開的嘛當然分開的那這個是一樣的啊就是爸爸的這個產後的預休是不是也可以再更多呢\n\n23\n00:08:13,769 --> 00:08:33,795\n因為你們現在是分開的嘛那這個爸爸你懂我意思嗎我們現在針對於爸爸的部分是針對那個家庭育嬰留庭爸爸就可以用那個育嬰留庭的部分所以爸爸現在你們的規劃裡面就是只有育嬰留庭沒有說是像是那個當然家庭照顧的部分他也是可以請\n\n24\n00:08:34,898 --> 00:09:02,511\nOK好了解那我再回到剛剛講的那個流性工時因為日本的這個流性工時呢其實對他們的幫助非常大如果我們來看到日本部分工時的就業比率就會達到25.6%而且南韓也是16.1%我們現在台灣其實只有3.2%其實是非常低也遠低於OECD的平均16.5%所以我只是在想說因為如果今天談性工時的話就像其實前面很多的委員也都有提到\n\n25\n00:09:03,251 --> 00:09:28,729\n因為她可能為了要照顧小孩她照顧很多事情她最後因為沒有辦法fulfill企業的需求她就會選擇離開嘛但是如果我們進入更多彈性工時的工作的模式的話這個工作的制度再設計的話那是不是就可以讓這些女性可以更有機會能夠留在職場所以我想要請問一下說我們是不是可以針對部分工時的這件事情再去做一些鬆綁因為我知道現在我們在討論彈性育嬰溜庭的時候其實也是在往這個方向來努力嘛\n\n26\n00:09:29,950 --> 00:09:44,706\n跟趙委員說明其實包括日本的所謂的柔性工職其實我們都看到一個狀況它其實跟現在台灣很多勞工的需求其實也是很相近的都是希望能夠給更多勞工需要的彈性\n\n27\n00:09:46,207 --> 00:10:10,054\n因為過去談到彈性常常都是指企業想要的彈性雇主想要的彈性他的這個要彈性他可能針對他的排班可能針對他希望的生產的這個週期去他的彈性所以我們的法規裡面會去做很多部分是要去限縮或者是去管控企業不能夠讓他的彈性太大變成會可能會造成勞工在加班或者是過勞上面的問題過去其實方向是這樣\n\n28\n00:10:12,495 --> 00:10:41,815\n可是我们陆陆续续看到现在很多的劳工他有劳工期望的弹性劳工期望的弹性跟雇主期望的弹性可能是不太一样的事情所以我们其实也是想要借由这一次的弹性的云流停在这个部分去尝试因为这个就是明显的一个例子这个是劳工期望的弹性怎么让企业的职场的制度能够包容劳工需要的弹性现在这个命题我们希望先从这个地方开始做未来如果我们开始有些成果企业开始有一些相关的适应\n\n29\n00:10:42,655 --> 00:10:59,608\n也開始理解到這事情的重要我們的配套也可以運作的話當然我們當然不會排除把這個勞工所需要的彈性是不是能夠擴及到更多的層面但是這個彈性雖然都是同樣都是用彈性兩個字可是如果仔細去細究你就會發現企業要的彈性跟勞工要的彈性可能是很不一樣的概念\n\n30\n00:11:00,782 --> 00:11:21,363\n對所以我理解喔但是我就希望說如果所以我們現在這個你剛剛講說就是跟企業在溝通就是因為運營流停的這件事情有沒有像彈性是這件事情是在往這個方向溝通嗎那我們是不是有個規劃就是說欸大概可能多久之後我們可以有機會再來跟企業進一步的來討論其實現在就是跟企業我再舉個例子委員這邊有提到像彈性工時的制度對\n\n31\n00:11:22,183 --> 00:11:37,370\n這過去這個所謂彈性工程制度就是主要都是在規範企業所需的彈性在這個這個標的下所以我說我們把這可能雖然用同樣兩個我們把它分開那我自己也很期待這次如果我們可以往前走這一步的話那\n\n32\n00:11:38,210 --> 00:11:59,288\n開始讓企業理解或者是相關的配套讓大家知道勞工所需要的彈性我們可以怎麼樣去支持跟企業要如何包容而且我們也讓企業知道當你越能夠包容的時候其實你在員工的招聘上面你可能是更容易的你更不會面對缺工上面的問題我們也逐步的在跟企業溝通這個概念對我知道我的意思是說我們有沒有規劃一個時程\n\n33\n00:12:01,975 --> 00:12:20,652\n我是希望能夠把這個腳步先踩穩這個腳步踩穩了以後這個概念大家開始也是比較熟悉了以後那我們希望慢慢的就像剛剛瑋瑜講說包括柔性工時因為它的柔性工時可能包括在很多面向上面我們有沒有可能哪些部分再設定一個優先順序在市場\n\n34\n00:12:21,352 --> 00:12:31,863\n我懂意思就是說我們現在基本上就是跟企業談完之後呢我們其實也會盤定一下哪些勞工需要的彈性工時的模式然後開始慢慢的來跟企業來溝通跟討論對不對好謝謝謝謝委員\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n6906\t9188\t謝謝主席 我們邀請部長請部長常委好好 部長好那我想今天就是來跟部長一樣來討論有關於女性的這個職場的這個勞動參與率喔那我先用幾個數字來跟部長來聊聊我們現在面對到的一個狀況就是根據行政院主計處的2019年的已婚婦女中呢因為結婚而離職的人呢大概佔了21%\n35985\t53834\t那生育離職的呢大概是22.7%其中有60%曾經復職那他們離職到復職的間隔大概是4到4.5年這是第一個數字所以我們大概可以了解說他們是會重返職場的但是間距比較長那第二個數字呢\n55635\t78888\t他們有說他們回到職場之後根據111人力銀行的調查認為說其實是頗為困難46.9%的人認為那其中有38%的人覺得相當吃力那甚至說只有6.8%的人覺得說他是可以順利回來所以等於是說他們回到職場上他們想要回去可是難度非常的高\n80149\t96174\t那這是第一個我們待會會問的就是有關於我們婦女的這個再就業計畫那第二個主題想要來講是說我們的女性的勞參與跟男性來比其實相對來說我們可以看到深色的那條黑色線男性的這個職場參與率呢到50歲以\n97915\t113155\t錢喔都還是維持在一個將近90%的一個參與率可是我們的女性呢是從29歲以後開始一路往下掉那這件事情我們可以非常清楚的知道生小孩了嘛可能要照顧家庭結婚了嘛這是第一個那再來我們再來看跟亞洲相比我們現在\n114016\t133845\t跟亞洲相比我們除了29歲是一個年紀我們從45歲以後我們是雪崩式下跌而且是遠低於我們的日本新加坡跟韓國所以這個是什麼這是因為他長照的時候可能又進來這是第二個他會面臨到必須要離開職場的問題所以好我們先回來第一個題目\n135990\t152617\t就是在我們現在的這個女性勞動力的參與力的女性的這個婦女在就業的這個方案裡面呢其實我們是有提供了一系列的一些就業措施啦育嬰留庭啦或者是推動企業參與員工子女為什麼按不到下頁啊好\n156189\t174240\t好等等我們可是呢我也依據2019年的中高齡婦女的需求研究評估報告他們其實也發現說雖然說他可以回去但是有39.5%的人認為自己的專業度不夠那其實也非常高度的有50%的人認為感到焦慮缺乏信心\n175060\t193308\t那同時呢他們也認為說因為他們必須要承擔不管是育兒或長照的責任呢工作彈性不足造成他們必須離職所以這也是其中的第二個原因那再來第三個就是說雖然婦女現在無法下一頁可以幫我按嗎謝謝再上一頁再上一頁再上一頁好\n196360\t217812\t好那再來就是說我們的雖然有保障彈性工時但是多數的企業實踐不到位而且呢第四點是很多的雇主認為對於育兒女性其實是一律偏高的也造成他們的招聘率偏低所以我們現在雖然有這個三年期的婦女在就業計畫那我們從112年9月1號上路到115年\n222134\t245251\t8月31號預計就要結束了那我看了一下我們目標在2026年的8月我們要達到53.5%可是我看了一下2023年的女性勞參率才51.82%經過了一年半大概也才到51.9%這個中間增加不到1%可是我們如何在只剩下的一年半要提升到增加將近2%呢\n247093\t251709\t這個部分我是蠻質疑的是不是可以請部長來告訴我說我們是有可能達到這個數字嗎\n259741\t285471\t其實就這個時間點來看當然挑戰是蠻大的那但是我們現在其實我其實也跟法案署其實在討論我們關於我們現在老八署有很多的就業計畫那在他的這個執行率上面會請法案署其實我們再做一輪的檢討甚至一些計畫如果該整病的部分該整病就是希望能夠把\n286171\t306666\t就計畫他的執行的效能能夠提升這部分我們會盡力來做所以聽起來是說目前我們現在在重新檢討我們過去的再就業計畫在檢討之後修正嗎應該是不只是只有婦女再就業計畫我們其實有蠻多相關的這些就業促進的計畫\n307927\t330042\t其實我都請發案署我們是用一個總體檢的方式再做一次的重新的整理然後希望能夠把執行的效果跟效率能夠提升之前陳新輝委員其實也質詢過這個部分那這個檢討跟這個總體檢的部分目前也如火如荼正在進行之中那就是希望把效能夠再做一些提升\n330822\t350977\t那這個總體檢大概是什麼時候會完成我們那時候是希望三個月的時間所以是預計在何時是不是到時候也可以把這份報告提供好不好因為我想因為剛剛其實提到了這個是我們過去發現他們回去職場的時候遇到一些困難所以我認為我們這總體檢應該都要去盤點我們現在所做的一些相關計畫不管是不是婦女在就業計畫都應該去回應這個問題不然這個勞參率永遠都是\n354580\t380455\t只能歸步向前那最終犧牲的還是女性那再來下一個題目想要繼續來討論就是說我也想要分享一下日本改革的一個政策的重點那他們其實也是除了就是擴大了育兒支持與托育服務但是他們有一個我覺得蠻重要的點是在於他們樓性工時以及呢他們提供了日本產後爸爸育休的一個育嬰假夏業\n381595\t409769\t允許男性在產後八週內分兩次請假政府補助薪資100%那我認為這兩件事情是非常重要的因為台灣的現況是配偶分免的時候他只有七天賠產假那七日內領全薪剩下的在由政府補助兩天可是其實坦白說這樣子的一個制度呢就間接的讓男性認為讓雇主認為育兒是女性的責任\n410949\t429498\t所以我認為說我們是不是可以比照日本的機制讓爸爸也可以參與育兒有更多的休假這個部分是可以來往這個方向我們當然是希望這個方向所以不管是剛才在講到暈流亭的彈性化這也是爸爸\n429938\t447101\t也是可以來參與的事實上我們也看到當你把這個可以請休的請申請的時間在縮短的時候他可以更彈性的時候這個爸爸他來申請來參與的比率是蠻明顯的顯著的提高的\n448101\t469046\t這也是裡面其中一個很重要的誘因那也包括之前在講到說這個暈流停六個月再加一個月為什麼是希望雙親都要期滿六個月才能夠再加一也是希望不要變成最後都是女性在承擔這個照顧小孩的狀況而是希望雙親之間可以平均分攤以後但是如果因為我們剛剛講你剛剛講是談性暈假\n471627\t492549\t所以現在這個彈性暈假同樣適用在爸爸這個機制那產後 我想我先確認一件事情就是彈性暈假包含了產假還是是不包含的我們現在你們不包含啦當然不包含啦是分開的嘛當然分開的那這個是一樣的啊就是爸爸的這個產後的預休是不是也可以再更多呢\n493769\t513795\t因為你們現在是分開的嘛那這個爸爸你懂我意思嗎我們現在針對於爸爸的部分是針對那個家庭育嬰留庭爸爸就可以用那個育嬰留庭的部分所以爸爸現在你們的規劃裡面就是只有育嬰留庭沒有說是像是那個當然家庭照顧的部分他也是可以請\n514898\t542511\tOK 好了解那我再回到剛剛講的那個流性工時因為日本的這個流性工時呢其實對他們的幫助非常大如果我們來看到日本部分工時的就業比率就會達到25.6%而且南韓也是16.1%我們現在台灣其實只有3.2%其實是非常低也遠低於OECD的平均16.5%所以我只是在想說因為如果今天談性工時的話就像其實前面很多的委員也都有提到\n543251\t568729\t因為她可能為了要照顧小孩她照顧很多事情她最後因為沒有辦法fulfill企業的需求她就會選擇離開嘛但是如果我們進入更多彈性工時的工作的模式的話這個工作的制度再設計的話那是不是就可以讓這些女性可以更有機會能夠留在職場所以我想要請問一下說我們是不是可以針對部分工時的這件事情再去做一些鬆綁因為我知道現在我們在討論彈性育嬰溜庭的時候其實也是在往這個方向來努力嘛\n569950\t584706\t跟趙委員說明其實包括日本的所謂的柔性工職其實我們都看到一個狀況它其實跟現在台灣很多勞工的需求其實也是很相近的都是希望能夠給更多勞工需要的彈性\n586207\t610054\t因為過去談到彈性常常都是指企業想要的彈性雇主想要的彈性他的這個要彈性他可能針對他的排班可能針對他希望的生產的這個週期去他的彈性所以我們的法規裡面會去做很多部分是要去限縮或者是去管控企業不能夠讓他的彈性太大變成會可能會造成勞工在加班或者是過勞上面的問題過去其實方向是這樣\n612495\t641815\t可是我们陆陆续续看到现在很多的劳工他有劳工期望的弹性劳工期望的弹性跟雇主期望的弹性可能是不太一样的事情所以我们其实也是想要借由这一次的弹性的云流停在这个部分去尝试因为这个就是明显的一个例子这个是劳工期望的弹性怎么让企业的职场的制度能够包容劳工需要的弹性现在这个命题我们希望先从这个地方开始做未来如果我们开始有些成果企业开始有一些相关的适应\n642655\t659608\t也開始理解到這事情的重要我們的配套也可以運作的話當然我們當然不會排除把這個勞工所需要的彈性是不是能夠擴及到更多的層面但是這個彈性雖然都是同樣都是用彈性兩個字可是如果仔細去細究你就會發現企業要的彈性跟勞工要的彈性可能是很不一樣的概念\n660782\t681363\t對所以我理解喔但是我就希望說如果所以我們現在這個你剛剛講說就是跟企業在溝通就是因為運營流停的這件事情有沒有像彈性是這件事情是在往這個方向溝通嗎那我們是不是有個規劃就是說欸大概可能多久之後我們可以有機會再來跟企業進一步的來討論其實現在就是跟企業我再舉個例子委員這邊有提到像彈性工時的制度對\n682183\t697370\t這過去這個所謂彈性工程制度就是主要都是在規範企業所需的彈性在這個這個標的下所以我說我們把這可能雖然用同樣兩個我們把它分開那我自己也很期待這次如果我們可以往前走這一步的話那\n698210\t719288\t開始讓企業理解或者是相關的配套讓大家知道勞工所需要的彈性我們可以怎麼樣去支持跟企業要如何包容而且我們也讓企業知道當你越能夠包容的時候其實你在員工的招聘上面你可能是更容易的你更不會面對缺工上面的問題我們也逐步的在跟企業溝通這個概念對 我知道我的意思是說我們有沒有規劃一個時程\n721975\t740652\t我是希望能夠把這個腳步先踩穩這個腳步踩穩了以後這個概念大家開始也是比較熟悉了以後那我們希望慢慢的就像剛剛瑋瑜講說包括柔性工時因為它的柔性工時可能包括在很多面向上面我們有沒有可能哪些部分再設定一個優先順序在市場\n741352\t751863\t我懂意思就是說我們現在基本上就是跟企業談完之後呢我們其實也會盤定一下哪些勞工需要的彈性工時的模式然後開始慢慢的來跟企業來溝通跟討論對不對好 謝謝謝謝委員\n","txt":"謝謝主席 我們邀請部長請部長常委好好 部長好那我想今天就是來跟部長一樣來討論有關於女性的這個職場的這個勞動參與率喔那我先用幾個數字來跟部長來聊聊我們現在面對到的一個狀況就是根據行政院主計處的2019年的已婚婦女中呢因為結婚而離職的人呢大概佔了21%\n那生育離職的呢大概是22.7%其中有60%曾經復職那他們離職到復職的間隔大概是4到4.5年這是第一個數字所以我們大概可以了解說他們是會重返職場的但是間距比較長那第二個數字呢\n他們有說他們回到職場之後根據111人力銀行的調查認為說其實是頗為困難46.9%的人認為那其中有38%的人覺得相當吃力那甚至說只有6.8%的人覺得說他是可以順利回來所以等於是說他們回到職場上他們想要回去可是難度非常的高\n那這是第一個我們待會會問的就是有關於我們婦女的這個再就業計畫那第二個主題想要來講是說我們的女性的勞參與跟男性來比其實相對來說我們可以看到深色的那條黑色線男性的這個職場參與率呢到50歲以\n錢喔都還是維持在一個將近90%的一個參與率可是我們的女性呢是從29歲以後開始一路往下掉那這件事情我們可以非常清楚的知道生小孩了嘛可能要照顧家庭結婚了嘛這是第一個那再來我們再來看跟亞洲相比我們現在\n跟亞洲相比我們除了29歲是一個年紀我們從45歲以後我們是雪崩式下跌而且是遠低於我們的日本新加坡跟韓國所以這個是什麼這是因為他長照的時候可能又進來這是第二個他會面臨到必須要離開職場的問題所以好我們先回來第一個題目\n就是在我們現在的這個女性勞動力的參與力的女性的這個婦女在就業的這個方案裡面呢其實我們是有提供了一系列的一些就業措施啦育嬰留庭啦或者是推動企業參與員工子女為什麼按不到下頁啊好\n好等等我們可是呢我也依據2019年的中高齡婦女的需求研究評估報告他們其實也發現說雖然說他可以回去但是有39.5%的人認為自己的專業度不夠那其實也非常高度的有50%的人認為感到焦慮缺乏信心\n那同時呢他們也認為說因為他們必須要承擔不管是育兒或長照的責任呢工作彈性不足造成他們必須離職所以這也是其中的第二個原因那再來第三個就是說雖然婦女現在無法下一頁可以幫我按嗎謝謝再上一頁再上一頁再上一頁好\n好那再來就是說我們的雖然有保障彈性工時但是多數的企業實踐不到位而且呢第四點是很多的雇主認為對於育兒女性其實是一律偏高的也造成他們的招聘率偏低所以我們現在雖然有這個三年期的婦女在就業計畫那我們從112年9月1號上路到115年\n8月31號預計就要結束了那我看了一下我們目標在2026年的8月我們要達到53.5%可是我看了一下2023年的女性勞參率才51.82%經過了一年半大概也才到51.9%這個中間增加不到1%可是我們如何在只剩下的一年半要提升到增加將近2%呢\n這個部分我是蠻質疑的是不是可以請部長來告訴我說我們是有可能達到這個數字嗎\n其實就這個時間點來看當然挑戰是蠻大的那但是我們現在其實我其實也跟法案署其實在討論我們關於我們現在老八署有很多的就業計畫那在他的這個執行率上面會請法案署其實我們再做一輪的檢討甚至一些計畫如果該整病的部分該整病就是希望能夠把\n就計畫他的執行的效能能夠提升這部分我們會盡力來做所以聽起來是說目前我們現在在重新檢討我們過去的再就業計畫在檢討之後修正嗎應該是不只是只有婦女再就業計畫我們其實有蠻多相關的這些就業促進的計畫\n其實我都請發案署我們是用一個總體檢的方式再做一次的重新的整理然後希望能夠把執行的效果跟效率能夠提升之前陳新輝委員其實也質詢過這個部分那這個檢討跟這個總體檢的部分目前也如火如荼正在進行之中那就是希望把效能夠再做一些提升\n那這個總體檢大概是什麼時候會完成我們那時候是希望三個月的時間所以是預計在何時是不是到時候也可以把這份報告提供好不好因為我想因為剛剛其實提到了這個是我們過去發現他們回去職場的時候遇到一些困難所以我認為我們這總體檢應該都要去盤點我們現在所做的一些相關計畫不管是不是婦女在就業計畫都應該去回應這個問題不然這個勞參率永遠都是\n只能歸步向前那最終犧牲的還是女性那再來下一個題目想要繼續來討論就是說我也想要分享一下日本改革的一個政策的重點那他們其實也是除了就是擴大了育兒支持與托育服務但是他們有一個我覺得蠻重要的點是在於他們樓性工時以及呢他們提供了日本產後爸爸育休的一個育嬰假夏業\n允許男性在產後八週內分兩次請假政府補助薪資100%那我認為這兩件事情是非常重要的因為台灣的現況是配偶分免的時候他只有七天賠產假那七日內領全薪剩下的在由政府補助兩天可是其實坦白說這樣子的一個制度呢就間接的讓男性認為讓雇主認為育兒是女性的責任\n所以我認為說我們是不是可以比照日本的機制讓爸爸也可以參與育兒有更多的休假這個部分是可以來往這個方向我們當然是希望這個方向所以不管是剛才在講到暈流亭的彈性化這也是爸爸\n也是可以來參與的事實上我們也看到當你把這個可以請休的請申請的時間在縮短的時候他可以更彈性的時候這個爸爸他來申請來參與的比率是蠻明顯的顯著的提高的\n這也是裡面其中一個很重要的誘因那也包括之前在講到說這個暈流停六個月再加一個月為什麼是希望雙親都要期滿六個月才能夠再加一也是希望不要變成最後都是女性在承擔這個照顧小孩的狀況而是希望雙親之間可以平均分攤以後但是如果因為我們剛剛講你剛剛講是談性暈假\n所以現在這個彈性暈假同樣適用在爸爸這個機制那產後 我想我先確認一件事情就是彈性暈假包含了產假還是是不包含的我們現在你們不包含啦當然不包含啦是分開的嘛當然分開的那這個是一樣的啊就是爸爸的這個產後的預休是不是也可以再更多呢\n因為你們現在是分開的嘛那這個爸爸你懂我意思嗎我們現在針對於爸爸的部分是針對那個家庭育嬰留庭爸爸就可以用那個育嬰留庭的部分所以爸爸現在你們的規劃裡面就是只有育嬰留庭沒有說是像是那個當然家庭照顧的部分他也是可以請\nOK 好了解那我再回到剛剛講的那個流性工時因為日本的這個流性工時呢其實對他們的幫助非常大如果我們來看到日本部分工時的就業比率就會達到25.6%而且南韓也是16.1%我們現在台灣其實只有3.2%其實是非常低也遠低於OECD的平均16.5%所以我只是在想說因為如果今天談性工時的話就像其實前面很多的委員也都有提到\n因為她可能為了要照顧小孩她照顧很多事情她最後因為沒有辦法fulfill企業的需求她就會選擇離開嘛但是如果我們進入更多彈性工時的工作的模式的話這個工作的制度再設計的話那是不是就可以讓這些女性可以更有機會能夠留在職場所以我想要請問一下說我們是不是可以針對部分工時的這件事情再去做一些鬆綁因為我知道現在我們在討論彈性育嬰溜庭的時候其實也是在往這個方向來努力嘛\n跟趙委員說明其實包括日本的所謂的柔性工職其實我們都看到一個狀況它其實跟現在台灣很多勞工的需求其實也是很相近的都是希望能夠給更多勞工需要的彈性\n因為過去談到彈性常常都是指企業想要的彈性雇主想要的彈性他的這個要彈性他可能針對他的排班可能針對他希望的生產的這個週期去他的彈性所以我們的法規裡面會去做很多部分是要去限縮或者是去管控企業不能夠讓他的彈性太大變成會可能會造成勞工在加班或者是過勞上面的問題過去其實方向是這樣\n可是我们陆陆续续看到现在很多的劳工他有劳工期望的弹性劳工期望的弹性跟雇主期望的弹性可能是不太一样的事情所以我们其实也是想要借由这一次的弹性的云流停在这个部分去尝试因为这个就是明显的一个例子这个是劳工期望的弹性怎么让企业的职场的制度能够包容劳工需要的弹性现在这个命题我们希望先从这个地方开始做未来如果我们开始有些成果企业开始有一些相关的适应\n也開始理解到這事情的重要我們的配套也可以運作的話當然我們當然不會排除把這個勞工所需要的彈性是不是能夠擴及到更多的層面但是這個彈性雖然都是同樣都是用彈性兩個字可是如果仔細去細究你就會發現企業要的彈性跟勞工要的彈性可能是很不一樣的概念\n對所以我理解喔但是我就希望說如果所以我們現在這個你剛剛講說就是跟企業在溝通就是因為運營流停的這件事情有沒有像彈性是這件事情是在往這個方向溝通嗎那我們是不是有個規劃就是說欸大概可能多久之後我們可以有機會再來跟企業進一步的來討論其實現在就是跟企業我再舉個例子委員這邊有提到像彈性工時的制度對\n這過去這個所謂彈性工程制度就是主要都是在規範企業所需的彈性在這個這個標的下所以我說我們把這可能雖然用同樣兩個我們把它分開那我自己也很期待這次如果我們可以往前走這一步的話那\n開始讓企業理解或者是相關的配套讓大家知道勞工所需要的彈性我們可以怎麼樣去支持跟企業要如何包容而且我們也讓企業知道當你越能夠包容的時候其實你在員工的招聘上面你可能是更容易的你更不會面對缺工上面的問題我們也逐步的在跟企業溝通這個概念對 我知道我的意思是說我們有沒有規劃一個時程\n我是希望能夠把這個腳步先踩穩這個腳步踩穩了以後這個概念大家開始也是比較熟悉了以後那我們希望慢慢的就像剛剛瑋瑜講說包括柔性工時因為它的柔性工時可能包括在很多面向上面我們有沒有可能哪些部分再設定一個優先順序在市場\n我懂意思就是說我們現在基本上就是跟企業談完之後呢我們其實也會盤定一下哪些勞工需要的彈性工時的模式然後開始慢慢的來跟企業來溝通跟討論對不對好 謝謝謝謝委員\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:06.906 --> 00:09.188\n謝謝主席我們邀請部長請部長常委好好部長好那我想今天就是來跟部長一樣來討論有關於女性的這個職場的這個勞動參與率喔那我先用幾個數字來跟部長來聊聊我們現在面對到的一個狀況就是根據行政院主計處的2019年的已婚婦女中呢因為結婚而離職的人呢大概佔了21%\n\n00:35.985 --> 00:53.834\n那生育離職的呢大概是22.7%其中有60%曾經復職那他們離職到復職的間隔大概是4到4.5年這是第一個數字所以我們大概可以了解說他們是會重返職場的但是間距比較長那第二個數字呢\n\n00:55.635 --> 01:18.888\n他們有說他們回到職場之後根據111人力銀行的調查認為說其實是頗為困難46.9%的人認為那其中有38%的人覺得相當吃力那甚至說只有6.8%的人覺得說他是可以順利回來所以等於是說他們回到職場上他們想要回去可是難度非常的高\n\n01:20.149 --> 01:36.174\n那這是第一個我們待會會問的就是有關於我們婦女的這個再就業計畫那第二個主題想要來講是說我們的女性的勞參與跟男性來比其實相對來說我們可以看到深色的那條黑色線男性的這個職場參與率呢到50歲以\n\n01:37.915 --> 01:53.155\n錢喔都還是維持在一個將近90%的一個參與率可是我們的女性呢是從29歲以後開始一路往下掉那這件事情我們可以非常清楚的知道生小孩了嘛可能要照顧家庭結婚了嘛這是第一個那再來我們再來看跟亞洲相比我們現在\n\n01:54.016 --> 02:13.845\n跟亞洲相比我們除了29歲是一個年紀我們從45歲以後我們是雪崩式下跌而且是遠低於我們的日本新加坡跟韓國所以這個是什麼這是因為他長照的時候可能又進來這是第二個他會面臨到必須要離開職場的問題所以好我們先回來第一個題目\n\n02:15.990 --> 02:32.617\n就是在我們現在的這個女性勞動力的參與力的女性的這個婦女在就業的這個方案裡面呢其實我們是有提供了一系列的一些就業措施啦育嬰留庭啦或者是推動企業參與員工子女為什麼按不到下頁啊好\n\n02:36.189 --> 02:54.240\n好等等我們可是呢我也依據2019年的中高齡婦女的需求研究評估報告他們其實也發現說雖然說他可以回去但是有39.5%的人認為自己的專業度不夠那其實也非常高度的有50%的人認為感到焦慮缺乏信心\n\n02:55.060 --> 03:13.308\n那同時呢他們也認為說因為他們必須要承擔不管是育兒或長照的責任呢工作彈性不足造成他們必須離職所以這也是其中的第二個原因那再來第三個就是說雖然婦女現在無法下一頁可以幫我按嗎謝謝再上一頁再上一頁再上一頁好\n\n03:16.360 --> 03:37.812\n好那再來就是說我們的雖然有保障彈性工時但是多數的企業實踐不到位而且呢第四點是很多的雇主認為對於育兒女性其實是一律偏高的也造成他們的招聘率偏低所以我們現在雖然有這個三年期的婦女在就業計畫那我們從112年9月1號上路到115年\n\n03:42.134 --> 04:05.251\n8月31號預計就要結束了那我看了一下我們目標在2026年的8月我們要達到53.5%可是我看了一下2023年的女性勞參率才51.82%經過了一年半大概也才到51.9%這個中間增加不到1%可是我們如何在只剩下的一年半要提升到增加將近2%呢\n\n04:07.093 --> 04:11.709\n這個部分我是蠻質疑的是不是可以請部長來告訴我說我們是有可能達到這個數字嗎\n\n04:19.741 --> 04:45.471\n其實就這個時間點來看當然挑戰是蠻大的那但是我們現在其實我其實也跟法案署其實在討論我們關於我們現在老八署有很多的就業計畫那在他的這個執行率上面會請法案署其實我們再做一輪的檢討甚至一些計畫如果該整病的部分該整病就是希望能夠把\n\n04:46.171 --> 05:06.666\n就計畫他的執行的效能能夠提升這部分我們會盡力來做所以聽起來是說目前我們現在在重新檢討我們過去的再就業計畫在檢討之後修正嗎應該是不只是只有婦女再就業計畫我們其實有蠻多相關的這些就業促進的計畫\n\n05:07.927 --> 05:30.042\n其實我都請發案署我們是用一個總體檢的方式再做一次的重新的整理然後希望能夠把執行的效果跟效率能夠提升之前陳新輝委員其實也質詢過這個部分那這個檢討跟這個總體檢的部分目前也如火如荼正在進行之中那就是希望把效能夠再做一些提升\n\n05:30.822 --> 05:50.977\n那這個總體檢大概是什麼時候會完成我們那時候是希望三個月的時間所以是預計在何時是不是到時候也可以把這份報告提供好不好因為我想因為剛剛其實提到了這個是我們過去發現他們回去職場的時候遇到一些困難所以我認為我們這總體檢應該都要去盤點我們現在所做的一些相關計畫不管是不是婦女在就業計畫都應該去回應這個問題不然這個勞參率永遠都是\n\n05:54.580 --> 06:20.455\n只能歸步向前那最終犧牲的還是女性那再來下一個題目想要繼續來討論就是說我也想要分享一下日本改革的一個政策的重點那他們其實也是除了就是擴大了育兒支持與托育服務但是他們有一個我覺得蠻重要的點是在於他們樓性工時以及呢他們提供了日本產後爸爸育休的一個育嬰假夏業\n\n06:21.595 --> 06:49.769\n允許男性在產後八週內分兩次請假政府補助薪資100%那我認為這兩件事情是非常重要的因為台灣的現況是配偶分免的時候他只有七天賠產假那七日內領全薪剩下的在由政府補助兩天可是其實坦白說這樣子的一個制度呢就間接的讓男性認為讓雇主認為育兒是女性的責任\n\n06:50.949 --> 07:09.498\n所以我認為說我們是不是可以比照日本的機制讓爸爸也可以參與育兒有更多的休假這個部分是可以來往這個方向我們當然是希望這個方向所以不管是剛才在講到暈流亭的彈性化這也是爸爸\n\n07:09.938 --> 07:27.101\n也是可以來參與的事實上我們也看到當你把這個可以請休的請申請的時間在縮短的時候他可以更彈性的時候這個爸爸他來申請來參與的比率是蠻明顯的顯著的提高的\n\n07:28.101 --> 07:49.046\n這也是裡面其中一個很重要的誘因那也包括之前在講到說這個暈流停六個月再加一個月為什麼是希望雙親都要期滿六個月才能夠再加一也是希望不要變成最後都是女性在承擔這個照顧小孩的狀況而是希望雙親之間可以平均分攤以後但是如果因為我們剛剛講你剛剛講是談性暈假\n\n07:51.627 --> 08:12.549\n所以現在這個彈性暈假同樣適用在爸爸這個機制那產後我想我先確認一件事情就是彈性暈假包含了產假還是是不包含的我們現在你們不包含啦當然不包含啦是分開的嘛當然分開的那這個是一樣的啊就是爸爸的這個產後的預休是不是也可以再更多呢\n\n08:13.769 --> 08:33.795\n因為你們現在是分開的嘛那這個爸爸你懂我意思嗎我們現在針對於爸爸的部分是針對那個家庭育嬰留庭爸爸就可以用那個育嬰留庭的部分所以爸爸現在你們的規劃裡面就是只有育嬰留庭沒有說是像是那個當然家庭照顧的部分他也是可以請\n\n08:34.898 --> 09:02.511\nOK好了解那我再回到剛剛講的那個流性工時因為日本的這個流性工時呢其實對他們的幫助非常大如果我們來看到日本部分工時的就業比率就會達到25.6%而且南韓也是16.1%我們現在台灣其實只有3.2%其實是非常低也遠低於OECD的平均16.5%所以我只是在想說因為如果今天談性工時的話就像其實前面很多的委員也都有提到\n\n09:03.251 --> 09:28.729\n因為她可能為了要照顧小孩她照顧很多事情她最後因為沒有辦法fulfill企業的需求她就會選擇離開嘛但是如果我們進入更多彈性工時的工作的模式的話這個工作的制度再設計的話那是不是就可以讓這些女性可以更有機會能夠留在職場所以我想要請問一下說我們是不是可以針對部分工時的這件事情再去做一些鬆綁因為我知道現在我們在討論彈性育嬰溜庭的時候其實也是在往這個方向來努力嘛\n\n09:29.950 --> 09:44.706\n跟趙委員說明其實包括日本的所謂的柔性工職其實我們都看到一個狀況它其實跟現在台灣很多勞工的需求其實也是很相近的都是希望能夠給更多勞工需要的彈性\n\n09:46.207 --> 10:10.054\n因為過去談到彈性常常都是指企業想要的彈性雇主想要的彈性他的這個要彈性他可能針對他的排班可能針對他希望的生產的這個週期去他的彈性所以我們的法規裡面會去做很多部分是要去限縮或者是去管控企業不能夠讓他的彈性太大變成會可能會造成勞工在加班或者是過勞上面的問題過去其實方向是這樣\n\n10:12.495 --> 10:41.815\n可是我们陆陆续续看到现在很多的劳工他有劳工期望的弹性劳工期望的弹性跟雇主期望的弹性可能是不太一样的事情所以我们其实也是想要借由这一次的弹性的云流停在这个部分去尝试因为这个就是明显的一个例子这个是劳工期望的弹性怎么让企业的职场的制度能够包容劳工需要的弹性现在这个命题我们希望先从这个地方开始做未来如果我们开始有些成果企业开始有一些相关的适应\n\n10:42.655 --> 10:59.608\n也開始理解到這事情的重要我們的配套也可以運作的話當然我們當然不會排除把這個勞工所需要的彈性是不是能夠擴及到更多的層面但是這個彈性雖然都是同樣都是用彈性兩個字可是如果仔細去細究你就會發現企業要的彈性跟勞工要的彈性可能是很不一樣的概念\n\n11:00.782 --> 11:21.363\n對所以我理解喔但是我就希望說如果所以我們現在這個你剛剛講說就是跟企業在溝通就是因為運營流停的這件事情有沒有像彈性是這件事情是在往這個方向溝通嗎那我們是不是有個規劃就是說欸大概可能多久之後我們可以有機會再來跟企業進一步的來討論其實現在就是跟企業我再舉個例子委員這邊有提到像彈性工時的制度對\n\n11:22.183 --> 11:37.370\n這過去這個所謂彈性工程制度就是主要都是在規範企業所需的彈性在這個這個標的下所以我說我們把這可能雖然用同樣兩個我們把它分開那我自己也很期待這次如果我們可以往前走這一步的話那\n\n11:38.210 --> 11:59.288\n開始讓企業理解或者是相關的配套讓大家知道勞工所需要的彈性我們可以怎麼樣去支持跟企業要如何包容而且我們也讓企業知道當你越能夠包容的時候其實你在員工的招聘上面你可能是更容易的你更不會面對缺工上面的問題我們也逐步的在跟企業溝通這個概念對我知道我的意思是說我們有沒有規劃一個時程\n\n12:01.975 --> 12:20.652\n我是希望能夠把這個腳步先踩穩這個腳步踩穩了以後這個概念大家開始也是比較熟悉了以後那我們希望慢慢的就像剛剛瑋瑜講說包括柔性工時因為它的柔性工時可能包括在很多面向上面我們有沒有可能哪些部分再設定一個優先順序在市場\n\n12:21.352 --> 12:31.863\n我懂意思就是說我們現在基本上就是跟企業談完之後呢我們其實也會盤定一下哪些勞工需要的彈性工時的模式然後開始慢慢的來跟企業來溝通跟討論對不對好謝謝謝謝委員\n\n","segments":[{"start":6.906,"end":9.188,"text":"謝謝主席 我們邀請部長請部長常委好好 部長好那我想今天就是來跟部長一樣來討論有關於女性的這個職場的這個勞動參與率喔那我先用幾個數字來跟部長來聊聊我們現在面對到的一個狀況就是根據行政院主計處的2019年的已婚婦女中呢因為結婚而離職的人呢大概佔了21%"},{"start":35.985,"end":53.834,"text":"那生育離職的呢大概是22.7%其中有60%曾經復職那他們離職到復職的間隔大概是4到4.5年這是第一個數字所以我們大概可以了解說他們是會重返職場的但是間距比較長那第二個數字呢"},{"start":55.635,"end":78.888,"text":"他們有說他們回到職場之後根據111人力銀行的調查認為說其實是頗為困難46.9%的人認為那其中有38%的人覺得相當吃力那甚至說只有6.8%的人覺得說他是可以順利回來所以等於是說他們回到職場上他們想要回去可是難度非常的高"},{"start":80.149,"end":96.174,"text":"那這是第一個我們待會會問的就是有關於我們婦女的這個再就業計畫那第二個主題想要來講是說我們的女性的勞參與跟男性來比其實相對來說我們可以看到深色的那條黑色線男性的這個職場參與率呢到50歲以"},{"start":97.915,"end":113.155,"text":"錢喔都還是維持在一個將近90%的一個參與率可是我們的女性呢是從29歲以後開始一路往下掉那這件事情我們可以非常清楚的知道生小孩了嘛可能要照顧家庭結婚了嘛這是第一個那再來我們再來看跟亞洲相比我們現在"},{"start":114.016,"end":133.845,"text":"跟亞洲相比我們除了29歲是一個年紀我們從45歲以後我們是雪崩式下跌而且是遠低於我們的日本新加坡跟韓國所以這個是什麼這是因為他長照的時候可能又進來這是第二個他會面臨到必須要離開職場的問題所以好我們先回來第一個題目"},{"start":135.99,"end":152.617,"text":"就是在我們現在的這個女性勞動力的參與力的女性的這個婦女在就業的這個方案裡面呢其實我們是有提供了一系列的一些就業措施啦育嬰留庭啦或者是推動企業參與員工子女為什麼按不到下頁啊好"},{"start":156.189,"end":174.24,"text":"好等等我們可是呢我也依據2019年的中高齡婦女的需求研究評估報告他們其實也發現說雖然說他可以回去但是有39.5%的人認為自己的專業度不夠那其實也非常高度的有50%的人認為感到焦慮缺乏信心"},{"start":175.06,"end":193.308,"text":"那同時呢他們也認為說因為他們必須要承擔不管是育兒或長照的責任呢工作彈性不足造成他們必須離職所以這也是其中的第二個原因那再來第三個就是說雖然婦女現在無法下一頁可以幫我按嗎謝謝再上一頁再上一頁再上一頁好"},{"start":196.36,"end":217.812,"text":"好那再來就是說我們的雖然有保障彈性工時但是多數的企業實踐不到位而且呢第四點是很多的雇主認為對於育兒女性其實是一律偏高的也造成他們的招聘率偏低所以我們現在雖然有這個三年期的婦女在就業計畫那我們從112年9月1號上路到115年"},{"start":222.134,"end":245.251,"text":"8月31號預計就要結束了那我看了一下我們目標在2026年的8月我們要達到53.5%可是我看了一下2023年的女性勞參率才51.82%經過了一年半大概也才到51.9%這個中間增加不到1%可是我們如何在只剩下的一年半要提升到增加將近2%呢"},{"start":247.093,"end":251.709,"text":"這個部分我是蠻質疑的是不是可以請部長來告訴我說我們是有可能達到這個數字嗎"},{"start":259.741,"end":285.471,"text":"其實就這個時間點來看當然挑戰是蠻大的那但是我們現在其實我其實也跟法案署其實在討論我們關於我們現在老八署有很多的就業計畫那在他的這個執行率上面會請法案署其實我們再做一輪的檢討甚至一些計畫如果該整病的部分該整病就是希望能夠把"},{"start":286.171,"end":306.666,"text":"就計畫他的執行的效能能夠提升這部分我們會盡力來做所以聽起來是說目前我們現在在重新檢討我們過去的再就業計畫在檢討之後修正嗎應該是不只是只有婦女再就業計畫我們其實有蠻多相關的這些就業促進的計畫"},{"start":307.927,"end":330.042,"text":"其實我都請發案署我們是用一個總體檢的方式再做一次的重新的整理然後希望能夠把執行的效果跟效率能夠提升之前陳新輝委員其實也質詢過這個部分那這個檢討跟這個總體檢的部分目前也如火如荼正在進行之中那就是希望把效能夠再做一些提升"},{"start":330.822,"end":350.977,"text":"那這個總體檢大概是什麼時候會完成我們那時候是希望三個月的時間所以是預計在何時是不是到時候也可以把這份報告提供好不好因為我想因為剛剛其實提到了這個是我們過去發現他們回去職場的時候遇到一些困難所以我認為我們這總體檢應該都要去盤點我們現在所做的一些相關計畫不管是不是婦女在就業計畫都應該去回應這個問題不然這個勞參率永遠都是"},{"start":354.58,"end":380.455,"text":"只能歸步向前那最終犧牲的還是女性那再來下一個題目想要繼續來討論就是說我也想要分享一下日本改革的一個政策的重點那他們其實也是除了就是擴大了育兒支持與托育服務但是他們有一個我覺得蠻重要的點是在於他們樓性工時以及呢他們提供了日本產後爸爸育休的一個育嬰假夏業"},{"start":381.595,"end":409.769,"text":"允許男性在產後八週內分兩次請假政府補助薪資100%那我認為這兩件事情是非常重要的因為台灣的現況是配偶分免的時候他只有七天賠產假那七日內領全薪剩下的在由政府補助兩天可是其實坦白說這樣子的一個制度呢就間接的讓男性認為讓雇主認為育兒是女性的責任"},{"start":410.949,"end":429.498,"text":"所以我認為說我們是不是可以比照日本的機制讓爸爸也可以參與育兒有更多的休假這個部分是可以來往這個方向我們當然是希望這個方向所以不管是剛才在講到暈流亭的彈性化這也是爸爸"},{"start":429.938,"end":447.101,"text":"也是可以來參與的事實上我們也看到當你把這個可以請休的請申請的時間在縮短的時候他可以更彈性的時候這個爸爸他來申請來參與的比率是蠻明顯的顯著的提高的"},{"start":448.101,"end":469.046,"text":"這也是裡面其中一個很重要的誘因那也包括之前在講到說這個暈流停六個月再加一個月為什麼是希望雙親都要期滿六個月才能夠再加一也是希望不要變成最後都是女性在承擔這個照顧小孩的狀況而是希望雙親之間可以平均分攤以後但是如果因為我們剛剛講你剛剛講是談性暈假"},{"start":471.627,"end":492.549,"text":"所以現在這個彈性暈假同樣適用在爸爸這個機制那產後 我想我先確認一件事情就是彈性暈假包含了產假還是是不包含的我們現在你們不包含啦當然不包含啦是分開的嘛當然分開的那這個是一樣的啊就是爸爸的這個產後的預休是不是也可以再更多呢"},{"start":493.769,"end":513.795,"text":"因為你們現在是分開的嘛那這個爸爸你懂我意思嗎我們現在針對於爸爸的部分是針對那個家庭育嬰留庭爸爸就可以用那個育嬰留庭的部分所以爸爸現在你們的規劃裡面就是只有育嬰留庭沒有說是像是那個當然家庭照顧的部分他也是可以請"},{"start":514.898,"end":542.511,"text":"OK 好了解那我再回到剛剛講的那個流性工時因為日本的這個流性工時呢其實對他們的幫助非常大如果我們來看到日本部分工時的就業比率就會達到25.6%而且南韓也是16.1%我們現在台灣其實只有3.2%其實是非常低也遠低於OECD的平均16.5%所以我只是在想說因為如果今天談性工時的話就像其實前面很多的委員也都有提到"},{"start":543.251,"end":568.729,"text":"因為她可能為了要照顧小孩她照顧很多事情她最後因為沒有辦法fulfill企業的需求她就會選擇離開嘛但是如果我們進入更多彈性工時的工作的模式的話這個工作的制度再設計的話那是不是就可以讓這些女性可以更有機會能夠留在職場所以我想要請問一下說我們是不是可以針對部分工時的這件事情再去做一些鬆綁因為我知道現在我們在討論彈性育嬰溜庭的時候其實也是在往這個方向來努力嘛"},{"start":569.95,"end":584.706,"text":"跟趙委員說明其實包括日本的所謂的柔性工職其實我們都看到一個狀況它其實跟現在台灣很多勞工的需求其實也是很相近的都是希望能夠給更多勞工需要的彈性"},{"start":586.207,"end":610.054,"text":"因為過去談到彈性常常都是指企業想要的彈性雇主想要的彈性他的這個要彈性他可能針對他的排班可能針對他希望的生產的這個週期去他的彈性所以我們的法規裡面會去做很多部分是要去限縮或者是去管控企業不能夠讓他的彈性太大變成會可能會造成勞工在加班或者是過勞上面的問題過去其實方向是這樣"},{"start":612.495,"end":641.815,"text":"可是我们陆陆续续看到现在很多的劳工他有劳工期望的弹性劳工期望的弹性跟雇主期望的弹性可能是不太一样的事情所以我们其实也是想要借由这一次的弹性的云流停在这个部分去尝试因为这个就是明显的一个例子这个是劳工期望的弹性怎么让企业的职场的制度能够包容劳工需要的弹性现在这个命题我们希望先从这个地方开始做未来如果我们开始有些成果企业开始有一些相关的适应"},{"start":642.655,"end":659.608,"text":"也開始理解到這事情的重要我們的配套也可以運作的話當然我們當然不會排除把這個勞工所需要的彈性是不是能夠擴及到更多的層面但是這個彈性雖然都是同樣都是用彈性兩個字可是如果仔細去細究你就會發現企業要的彈性跟勞工要的彈性可能是很不一樣的概念"},{"start":660.782,"end":681.363,"text":"對所以我理解喔但是我就希望說如果所以我們現在這個你剛剛講說就是跟企業在溝通就是因為運營流停的這件事情有沒有像彈性是這件事情是在往這個方向溝通嗎那我們是不是有個規劃就是說欸大概可能多久之後我們可以有機會再來跟企業進一步的來討論其實現在就是跟企業我再舉個例子委員這邊有提到像彈性工時的制度對"},{"start":682.183,"end":697.37,"text":"這過去這個所謂彈性工程制度就是主要都是在規範企業所需的彈性在這個這個標的下所以我說我們把這可能雖然用同樣兩個我們把它分開那我自己也很期待這次如果我們可以往前走這一步的話那"},{"start":698.21,"end":719.288,"text":"開始讓企業理解或者是相關的配套讓大家知道勞工所需要的彈性我們可以怎麼樣去支持跟企業要如何包容而且我們也讓企業知道當你越能夠包容的時候其實你在員工的招聘上面你可能是更容易的你更不會面對缺工上面的問題我們也逐步的在跟企業溝通這個概念對 我知道我的意思是說我們有沒有規劃一個時程"},{"start":721.975,"end":740.652,"text":"我是希望能夠把這個腳步先踩穩這個腳步踩穩了以後這個概念大家開始也是比較熟悉了以後那我們希望慢慢的就像剛剛瑋瑜講說包括柔性工時因為它的柔性工時可能包括在很多面向上面我們有沒有可能哪些部分再設定一個優先順序在市場"},{"start":741.352,"end":751.863,"text":"我懂意思就是說我們現在基本上就是跟企業談完之後呢我們其實也會盤定一下哪些勞工需要的彈性工時的模式然後開始慢慢的來跟企業來溝通跟討論對不對好 謝謝謝謝委員"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":974,"blocks":[["張委員雅琳：（12時44分）謝謝主席，我們邀請部長。"],["主席：請部長。"],["洪部長申翰：張委員好。"],["張委員雅琳：部長好。今天一樣跟部長討論關於女性職場的勞動參與率，我先用幾個數字來跟部長聊聊我們現在面對的狀況。根據行政院主計處的資料，2019年的已婚婦女中，因為結婚而離職的人大概占了21%，生育離職的大概是22.7%，其中有60%曾經復職，那他們離職到復職的間隔大概是4到4.5年。這是第一個數字，所以我們大概可以瞭解，他們是會重返職場的，但是間距比較長。第二個數字是他們回到職場之後，根據1111人力銀行的調查，有46.9%認為頗為困難，有38%的人覺得相當吃力，只有6.8%的人覺得可以順利回來，等於他們有想要回到職場上，可是難度非常的高，我們待會會問的就是有關婦女的再就業計畫，這是第一個。","第二個主題是我們女性的勞參率跟男性來比，我們可以看到深色的那條黑色線，男性的職場參與率到50歲以前，都還是維持在將近90%的參與率，可是女性是從29歲以後開始一路往下掉，這件事情我們可以非常清楚知道是結婚或生小孩了嘛！可能要照顧家庭，這是第一個。再來我們跟其他亞洲國家相比，我們除了29歲是一個年紀，45歲以後我們是雪崩式下跌，而且是遠低於日本、新加坡跟韓國。這個是什麼？這是因為長照的問題可能又進來，他會面臨到必須要離開職場的問題，這是第二個。","我們先回來第一個題目，我們現在的婦女再就業方案，其實是有提供了一系列的就業措施、育嬰留停，或者是推動企業參與員工子女等等。可是依據2019年中高齡婦女的需求研究評估報告，雖然婦女可以回去職場，但是有39.5%的人認為自己的專業度不夠，高達50%的人感到焦慮、缺乏信心。同時他們也認為，因為必須承擔育兒或長照的責任，所以工作彈性不足，造成他們必須離職，這也是其中的第二個原因。第三、雖然婦女有保障彈性工時，但是多數的企業實踐不到位。第四、很多雇主對於育兒女性，其實疑慮是偏高的，也造成他們的招聘率偏低。","我們現在雖然有三年期的婦女再就業計畫，從112年9月1日上路到115年8月31日，預計就要結束了。我看了一下，我們的目標是在2026年的8月要達到53.5%，可是2023年我們的女性勞參率才51.82%，經過了一年半，大概也才到51.9%，這個中間增加不到1%。我們如何在只剩下的一年半要提升到增加將近2%呢？這個部分我是蠻質疑的，是不是可以請部長來告訴我，我們有可能達到這個數字嗎？"],["洪部長申翰：其實就這個時間點來看，當然挑戰是滿大的，但我們現在其實也跟法案組在討論，勞發署現在有很多的就業計畫，在執行率上我也請法案組再做一輪的檢討。甚至一些計畫如果該整併的部分就整併，就是希望能夠把就業計畫執行的效能提升，這部分我們會盡力來做。"],["張委員雅琳：所以聽起來是，我們正在重新檢討我們過去的再就業計畫，是檢討之後修正嗎？"],["洪部長申翰：應該說我們不只是檢討婦女再就業計畫，我們其實有滿多相關的就業促進計畫，其實我都請法案組用一個總體檢的方式，再做一次重新的整理，希望能夠把執行的效果跟效率能夠提升。之前陳菁徽委員其實也質詢過，這個總體檢的部分目前也正如火如荼的進行中，就是希望把效能再做一些提升。"],["張委員雅琳：這個總體檢大概是什麼時候會完成？"],["洪部長申翰：我們那時候是希望三個月的時間。"],["張委員雅琳：所以是預計在何時？到時候能否把這份報告提供給我們？"],["洪部長申翰：當然，可以。"],["張委員雅琳：因為剛剛提到的是，我們過去發現婦女回去職場的時候會遇到的一些困難，所以我認為總體檢應該都要去盤點現在所做的一些相關計畫，不管是不是婦女再就業計畫都應該去回應這個問題，不然勞參率永遠都只能龜步向前，最終犧牲的還是女性。"],["洪部長申翰：是，沒錯。"],["張委員雅琳：再來下一個題目，我也想分享一下日本改革的政策重點，其實他們也是擴大育兒支持與托育服務，但是他們有一點我覺得滿重要的，就是他們的柔性工時，以及他們提供產後爸爸育休的育嬰假，允許男性在產後八週內分兩次請假，政府補助薪資100%。我認為這兩件事情是非常重要的，因為臺灣的現況是配偶分娩的時候，他只有7天陪產假，7日內領全薪，剩下的再由政府補助2天，可是坦白說這樣子的一個制度，就間接的讓男性認為、讓雇主認為，育兒是女性的責任。所以我認為，我們是不是可以比照日本的機制，讓爸爸也可以參與育兒，有更多的休假，這部分是不是可以往這個方向？"],["洪部長申翰：跟委員說明，我們當然是希望這個方向，所以不管是剛才講到的育嬰留停彈性化，這也是爸爸可以來參與的。事實上我們也看到，當你把可以申請的時間再縮短，他可以更彈性的時候，爸爸來申請參與的比率是顯著提高的，這也是其中一個很重要的誘因。包括之前講到育嬰留停6個月再加1個月，為什麼是希望雙親都要請滿6個月才能夠再加1個月，也是希望不要變成最後都是女性在承擔照顧小孩的狀況，而是雙親之間可以平均分攤。"],["張委員雅琳：你剛剛講的是彈性育嬰假，所以現在這個彈性育嬰假同樣適用在爸爸這個機制，我先確認一件事情，彈性育嬰假是否包含產假？還是不包含？"],["洪部長申翰：當然不包含。"],["張委員雅琳：是分開的嘛，對不對？"],["洪部長申翰：當然分開的。"],["張委員雅琳：那這個是一樣的，就是爸爸的產後育休是不是也可以再更多呢？因為你們現在是分開的，你懂我意思嗎？"],["黃司長琦雅：我們現在針對爸爸的部分是家庭育嬰留停，爸爸就可以用育嬰留停的部分。"],["張委員雅琳：所以爸爸目前在你們的規劃裡就是只有育嬰留停？沒有像是……"],["黃司長琦雅：家庭照顧的部分他也是可以請。"],["張委員雅琳：好，瞭解。那我再回到剛剛講的柔性工時，因為日本柔性工時其實對他們的幫助非常大，我們看到日本部分工時的就業比率達到25.6%，而且南韓也是16.1%，臺灣現在只有3.2%，其實是非常低，也遠低於OECD的平均16.5%。","所以我在想，如果今天有彈性工時的話，其實前面很多委員也都有提到，他可能為了要照顧小孩、照顧很多事情，最後因為沒有辦法fulfill企業的需求，他就會選擇離開。如果我們今天有更多彈性工時的工作模式，設計這個工作制度，是不是就可以讓這些女性可以更有機會能夠留在職場？所以我想請問一下，我們能否針對部分工時這件事情再去做一些鬆綁？因為我知道現在我們在討論彈性育嬰留停的時候，其實也是往這個方向來努力。"],["洪部長申翰：其實包括日本所謂的柔性工時，我們都看到一個狀況，跟現在臺灣很多勞工的需求也是很相近的，都是希望能夠給更多勞工需要的彈性。因為過去談到彈性，常常都是指企業想要的彈性、雇主想要的彈性，這個彈性可能是針對他的排班，可能是針對他希望的生產週期。所以我們的法規裡面做了很多部分，是要去限縮或者是去管控企業，不能夠讓他的彈性太大，變成可能會造成勞工加班或者是過勞的問題，過去其實方向是這樣。可是我們陸陸續續看到，現在很多的勞工有勞工期望的彈性，跟雇主期望的彈性可能是不太一樣的事情。","所以我們其實也是想要藉由這次的彈性育嬰留停，在這個部分去嘗試，因為這就是一個明顯的例子，這個是勞工期望的彈性。怎麼讓企業的職場制度能夠包容勞工需要的彈性，現在這個命題，我們希望先從這個地方開始做，未來如果我們開始有些成果，企業開始有一些相關的適應，也開始理解到這件事情的重要，我們的配套也可以運作的話，當然我們不排除把這個勞工所需要的彈性，能夠擴及到更多的層面。雖然都是用彈性兩個字，可是如果仔細去細究，你會發現企業要的彈性跟勞工要的彈性，可能是很不一樣的概念。"],["張委員雅琳：對，我理解。你剛剛說的是跟企業再溝通，因為育嬰留停這件事情我們希望彈性，這件事情是往這個方向溝通。那我們是不是有個規劃，就是大概可能多久之後，我們可以有機會再來跟企業進一步討論？"],["洪部長申翰：其實現在就是在跟企業討論，我再舉個例子，委員這邊有提到像彈性工時的制度，過去所謂的彈性工時制度，主要都是在規範企業所需的彈性，是在這個標的下，所以雖然用同樣兩個字，但我們把它分開。我自己也很期待，如果這一次我們可以往前走這一步的話，開始讓企業理解，或者是相關的配套，讓大家知道勞工所需要的彈性，我們可以怎麼樣去支持，跟企業要如何包容。而且我們也讓企業知道，當你越能夠包容的時候，其實你在員工的招聘上面可能更容易，更不會面對缺工的問題，我們也逐步的在跟企業溝通這個概念。"],["張委員雅琳：我知道，我的意思是說，我們有沒有規劃一個時程？"],["洪部長申翰：我是希望我們先把彈性育嬰留停的這個腳步踩穩，這個腳步踩穩了以後，這個概念大家開始比較熟悉了，我們希望慢慢的，就像剛剛委員提到包括柔性工時，因為柔性工時可能包括在很多面向上，有沒有可能哪些部分再設定一個優先順序，再來思考。"],["張委員雅琳：好，這樣我懂你的意思，現在基本上就是跟企業談完之後，我們其實也會盤點一下哪些是勞工需要的彈性工時模式，然後開始慢慢跟企業溝通跟討論，對不對？"],["洪部長申翰：是。"],["張委員雅琳：好，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝委員，謝謝部長關心婦女再就業計畫。","楊瓊瓔委員改書面質詢。","接著請張啓楷委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":516,"meet_id":"委員會-11-3-26-17","speakers":["蘇清泉","陳昭姿","林月琴","陳菁徽","王育敏","邱鎮軍","黃秀芳","涂權吉","劉建國","廖偉翔","林淑芬","王正旭","羅廷瑋","李坤城","張雅琳","張啓楷","陳瑩","楊曜","林德福","楊瓊瓔"],"page_start":443,"meetingDate":["2025-06-18"],"gazette_id":"1146001","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1146001_00013"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第17次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請勞動部部長就「營造友善職場育兒環境，落實照顧不離職政策規劃」進行專題報告，並備質\n詢","agenda_id":"1146001_00017"}}}