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{\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 123.377, \"end\": 123.497, \"score\": 0.712}, {\"word\": \"影\", \"start\": 123.497, \"end\": 124.438, \"score\": 0.947}, {\"word\": \"響\"}, {\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 124.438, \"end\": 124.578, \"score\": 0.78}, {\"word\": \"同\", \"start\": 124.578, \"end\": 124.998, \"score\": 0.937}, {\"word\": \"時\"}, {\"word\": \"呢\", \"start\": 124.998, \"end\": 125.018, \"score\": 0.998}]}, {\"start\": 126.279, \"end\": 155.046, \"text\": \"因為每一次這個關鍵的詢問呢可能都會影響到這個案件的一個進行喔那可是我自己也有看見喔其實司法院在四月份的時候提出了一個司法週刊看到說為了落實CRC所建構的一個兒童基本權利及兒童最佳利益的原則你們卻盤點了法院的環境跟建設了一些相關的系統啦然後強化司法人員的一些知能跟優化審理的程序可是這樣子的事情還是發生了\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"因\", \"start\": 126.279, \"end\": 127.059, \"score\": 0.972}, {\"word\": \"為\"}, {\"word\": \"每\", \"start\": 127.059, \"end\": 127.239, \"score\": 0.992}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 127.239, \"end\": 128.16, \"score\": 0.871}, {\"word\": \"次\", \"start\": 128.16, \"end\": 128.8, \"score\": 0.875}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": 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{\"word\": \"些\", \"start\": 146.344, \"end\": 146.484, \"score\": 0.979}, {\"word\": \"相\", \"start\": 146.484, \"end\": 146.824, \"score\": 0.941}, {\"word\": \"關\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 146.824, \"end\": 147.644, \"score\": 0.976}, {\"word\": \"系\", \"start\": 147.644, \"end\": 148.064, \"score\": 0.949}, {\"word\": \"統\"}, {\"word\": \"啦\", \"start\": 148.064, \"end\": 148.704, \"score\": 0.951}, {\"word\": \"然\", \"start\": 148.704, \"end\": 148.944, \"score\": 0.916}, {\"word\": \"後\", \"start\": 148.944, \"end\": 149.184, \"score\": 0.916}, {\"word\": \"強\"}, {\"word\": \"化\", \"start\": 149.184, \"end\": 149.465, \"score\": 0.978}, {\"word\": \"司\", \"start\": 149.465, \"end\": 149.625, \"score\": 0.924}, {\"word\": \"法\", \"start\": 149.625, \"end\": 149.765, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"人\", \"start\": 149.765, \"end\": 150.125, \"score\": 0.944}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 150.125, \"end\": 150.225, \"score\": 0.974}, {\"word\": \"一\", 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\"end\": 153.185, \"score\": 0.8}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 153.185, \"end\": 153.265, \"score\": 0.746}, {\"word\": \"事\", \"start\": 153.265, \"end\": 153.486, \"score\": 0.985}, {\"word\": \"情\", \"start\": 153.486, \"end\": 154.306, \"score\": 0.943}, {\"word\": \"還\"}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 154.306, \"end\": 154.786, \"score\": 0.957}, {\"word\": \"發\"}, {\"word\": \"生\", \"start\": 154.786, \"end\": 155.026, \"score\": 0.907}, {\"word\": \"了\", \"start\": 155.026, \"end\": 155.046, \"score\": 0.674}]}, {\"start\": 157.039, \"end\": 172.29, \"text\": \"這樣的事情還是發生的那司法院表示說會增強家事服務的方式來協助兒上所以我們來看一下如果以家事服務的中心跟這個兒童之家的一個架構來相比的話其實服務對象跟運作上其實有非常非常明顯的一個差別\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"樣\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 157.039, \"end\": 157.179, \"score\": 0.857}, {\"word\": \"事\", \"start\": 157.179, \"end\": 157.319, \"score\": 0.978}, {\"word\": \"情\", \"start\": 157.319, \"end\": 157.659, \"score\": 0.928}, {\"word\": \"還\"}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 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{\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 167.467, \"end\": 167.547, \"score\": 0.995}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 167.547, \"end\": 167.747, \"score\": 0.866}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"架\", \"start\": 167.747, \"end\": 168.227, \"score\": 0.845}, {\"word\": \"構\"}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"相\", \"start\": 168.227, \"end\": 168.467, \"score\": 0.918}, {\"word\": \"比\", \"start\": 168.467, \"end\": 168.568, \"score\": 0.953}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 168.568, \"end\": 168.828, \"score\": 0.834}, {\"word\": \"話\"}, {\"word\": \"其\", \"start\": 168.828, \"end\": 169.108, \"score\": 0.921}, {\"word\": \"實\"}, {\"word\": \"服\", \"start\": 169.108, \"end\": 169.628, \"score\": 0.888}, {\"word\": \"務\"}, {\"word\": \"對\"}, {\"word\": \"象\", \"start\": 169.628, \"end\": 169.808, \"score\": 0.98}, {\"word\": \"跟\", \"start\": 169.808, \"end\": 170.109, \"score\": 0.92}, {\"word\": \"運\"}, {\"word\": \"作\", \"start\": 170.109, \"end\": 170.249, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"上\", 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\"所以我想問一下就是說如果我們以現在司法院來說我們是不是有可能怎麼樣子的來做往這個兒童之家的方向來邁進呢因為這個才是真正自從國家國際的專家學者建議的一個方向認為這才是能夠真正的守護到兒童這個蜂蜜可不可以簡短回憶一下\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"所\", \"start\": 173.251, \"end\": 173.411, \"score\": 0.948}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 173.411, \"end\": 174.152, \"score\": 0.981}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 174.152, \"end\": 174.252, \"score\": 0.832}, {\"word\": \"想\", \"start\": 174.252, \"end\": 174.532, \"score\": 0.919}, {\"word\": \"問\"}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 174.532, \"end\": 174.652, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"下\", \"start\": 174.652, \"end\": 174.933, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 174.933, \"end\": 175.133, \"score\": 0.9}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 175.133, \"end\": 175.633, \"score\": 0.959}, {\"word\": \"說\"}, {\"word\": \"如\", \"start\": 175.633, \"end\": 175.814, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"果\", \"start\": 175.814, \"end\": 175.974, \"score\": 0.995}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 175.974, \"end\": 176.194, \"score\": 0.84}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 176.194, \"end\": 176.654, \"score\": 0.95}, {\"word\": \"現\"}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 176.654, \"end\": 176.975, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"司\", \"start\": 176.975, \"end\": 177.215, \"score\": 0.975}, {\"word\": \"法\", \"start\": 177.215, \"end\": 177.435, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"院\", \"start\": 177.435, \"end\": 178.196, \"score\": 0.928}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"說\"}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 178.196, \"end\": 178.496, \"score\": 0.867}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 178.496, \"end\": 178.596, \"score\": 0.983}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 178.596, \"end\": 178.716, \"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 178.716, \"end\": 178.877, \"score\": 0.886}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 178.877, \"end\": 179.197, \"score\": 0.991}, {\"word\": \"可\", \"start\": 179.197, \"end\": 179.537, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"能\", \"start\": 179.537, \"end\": 179.878, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"怎\", 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184.762, \"end\": 185.002, \"score\": 0.917}, {\"word\": \"因\", \"start\": 185.002, \"end\": 185.583, \"score\": 0.895}, {\"word\": \"為\"}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"才\", \"start\": 185.583, \"end\": 185.743, \"score\": 0.949}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 185.743, \"end\": 185.923, \"score\": 0.917}, {\"word\": \"真\", \"start\": 185.923, \"end\": 186.144, \"score\": 0.949}, {\"word\": \"正\", \"start\": 186.144, \"end\": 186.324, \"score\": 0.939}, {\"word\": \"自\", \"start\": 186.324, \"end\": 187.165, \"score\": 0.93}, {\"word\": \"從\"}, {\"word\": \"國\"}, {\"word\": \"家\", \"start\": 187.165, \"end\": 187.925, \"score\": 0.934}, {\"word\": \"國\"}, {\"word\": \"際\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 187.925, \"end\": 188.206, \"score\": 0.921}, {\"word\": \"專\"}, {\"word\": \"家\", \"start\": 188.206, \"end\": 188.366, \"score\": 0.992}, {\"word\": \"學\", \"start\": 188.366, \"end\": 188.526, \"score\": 0.874}, {\"word\": \"者\", \"start\": 188.526, \"end\": 188.746, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"建\", \"start\": 188.746, \"end\": 189.106, \"score\": 0.875}, {\"word\": \"議\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 189.106, \"end\": 189.227, \"score\": 0.995}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 189.227, \"end\": 189.487, \"score\": 0.859}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"方\", \"start\": 189.487, \"end\": 189.707, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"向\", \"start\": 189.707, \"end\": 190.187, \"score\": 0.874}, {\"word\": \"認\"}, {\"word\": \"為\"}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"才\", \"start\": 190.187, \"end\": 190.308, \"score\": 0.842}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 190.308, \"end\": 190.408, \"score\": 0.941}, {\"word\": \"能\", \"start\": 190.408, \"end\": 190.608, \"score\": 0.904}, {\"word\": \"夠\"}, {\"word\": \"真\", \"start\": 190.608, \"end\": 190.748, \"score\": 0.86}, {\"word\": \"正\", \"start\": 190.748, \"end\": 190.848, \"score\": 0.8}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 190.848, \"end\": 191.329, \"score\": 0.97}, {\"word\": \"守\", \"start\": 191.329, \"end\": 191.589, \"score\": 0.861}, {\"word\": \"護\"}, {\"word\": \"到\", \"start\": 191.589, \"end\": 191.909, \"score\": 0.888}, {\"word\": \"兒\"}, {\"word\": \"童\", \"start\": 191.909, \"end\": 193.07, \"score\": 0.959}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"蜂\", \"start\": 193.07, \"end\": 193.19, \"score\": 0.854}, {\"word\": \"蜜\", \"start\": 193.19, \"end\": 193.27, \"score\": 0.729}, {\"word\": \"可\", \"start\": 193.27, \"end\": 193.371, \"score\": 0.86}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 193.371, \"end\": 193.471, \"score\": 0.805}, {\"word\": \"可\", \"start\": 193.471, \"end\": 193.811, \"score\": 0.879}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 193.811, \"end\": 193.931, \"score\": 0.833}, {\"word\": \"簡\"}, {\"word\": \"短\", \"start\": 193.931, \"end\": 194.111, \"score\": 0.835}, {\"word\": \"回\", \"start\": 194.111, \"end\": 194.271, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"憶\"}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 194.271, \"end\": 194.392, \"score\": 0.944}, {\"word\": \"下\", \"start\": 194.392, \"end\": 194.412, \"score\": 0.962}]}, {\"start\": 195.049, \"end\": 219.029, \"text\": \"那個 謝謝委員淳勳我想第一個先釐清的就是剛才的問題可能有一些層次不一樣的就是司法院在司法週刊中所宣示的就是我們的那個司法禁用的這一些措施呢那個是指說少年他進到了那個法院來之後的這些相關的這一些那個措施的優化那剛才委員所舉的對 因為這個東西還是沒有關係所舉的那個土層的那個案件那個事實上是\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 195.049, \"end\": 196.11, \"score\": 0.799}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 196.11, \"end\": 196.39, \"score\": 0.709}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"淳\", \"start\": 196.39, \"end\": 197.151, \"score\": 0.782}, {\"word\": \"勳\"}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 197.151, \"end\": 197.251, \"score\": 0.615}, {\"word\": \"想\", \"start\": 197.251, \"end\": 197.651, \"score\": 0.87}, {\"word\": \"第\", \"start\": 197.651, \"end\": 197.751, \"score\": 0.925}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 197.751, \"end\": 197.951, \"score\": 0.647}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"先\", \"start\": 197.951, \"end\": 198.292, \"score\": 0.741}, {\"word\": \"釐\"}, {\"word\": 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\"為\"}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"東\"}, {\"word\": \"西\", \"start\": 218.209, \"end\": 218.229, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"還\"}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 218.229, \"end\": 218.369, \"score\": 0.716}, {\"word\": \"沒\", \"start\": 218.369, \"end\": 218.389, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 218.389, \"end\": 218.469, \"score\": 0.748}, {\"word\": \"關\"}, {\"word\": \"係\"}, {\"word\": \"所\", \"start\": 218.469, \"end\": 218.489, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"舉\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 218.489, \"end\": 218.529, \"score\": 0.064}, {\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 218.529, \"end\": 218.609, \"score\": 0.738}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"土\", \"start\": 218.609, \"end\": 218.629, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"層\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 218.629, \"end\": 218.749, \"score\": 0.681}, {\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 218.749, \"end\": 218.769, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"案\", \"start\": 218.769, \"end\": 218.889, \"score\": 0.666}, {\"word\": \"件\", \"start\": 218.889, \"end\": 218.929, \"score\": 0.495}, {\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 218.929, \"end\": 218.969, \"score\": 0.5}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"事\", \"start\": 218.969, \"end\": 218.989, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"實\"}, {\"word\": \"上\", \"start\": 218.989, \"end\": 219.009, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 219.009, \"end\": 219.029, \"score\": 0.001}]}, {\"start\": 222.552, \"end\": 243.331, \"text\": \"完全是發生在最前端就是沒有使用到那個法院來是更前面的時候事件一發生的時候有關於那個警政這個部分的那個詢問所以那個重複詢問的那個問題那是事實上是不一樣的那至於說這一個現在這一個這個爭點的部分我請我們的那個中廳長就是邵家的那個中廳長來回覆\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"完\", \"start\": 222.552, \"end\": 222.772, \"score\": 0.763}, {\"word\": \"全\", \"start\": 222.772, \"end\": 222.953, \"score\": 0.836}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 222.953, \"end\": 223.293, \"score\": 0.931}, {\"word\": \"發\"}, {\"word\": \"生\", \"start\": 223.293, \"end\": 223.473, \"score\": 0.881}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 223.473, \"end\": 223.633, \"score\": 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\"提\", \"start\": 543.241, \"end\": 543.361, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"供\", \"start\": 543.361, \"end\": 544.142, \"score\": 0.948}, {\"word\": \"給\"}, {\"word\": \"再\", \"start\": 544.142, \"end\": 544.842, \"score\": 0.917}, {\"word\": \"回\", \"start\": 544.842, \"end\": 545.082, \"score\": 0.903}, {\"word\": \"給\"}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 545.082, \"end\": 545.582, \"score\": 0.954}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 545.582, \"end\": 545.602, \"score\": 0.099}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:04,492 --> 00:00:30,660\n謝謝主席我們有請司法院副秘書長以及衛福部應該是現在是誰現在是市長好現在是市長好委員午安好那首先呢我想要先針對就是在2022年的時候呢兒童權利公約第二次國家審查性的一個國際審查結論一新意見書裡面呢其實有建議台灣應該要參考兒童之家的一個模式建立兒童友善司法的一個制度\n\n2\n00:00:31,320 --> 00:00:56,257\n但是在後續各部會進行回應的時候呢將相關的建議拆成了七個部分由警政署、法務部、衛福部、司法院各自依照自己的夜館範圍來進行喔但是呢當時為什麼會提出這樣子的一個建議我想負面應該也非常非常清楚齁其實就是希望讓兒童不要被重複的審問或是詢問好對吧當時是這樣子齁\n\n3\n00:00:59,059 --> 00:01:06,117\n那可是呢當時就是希望兒童不要遇到這樣子的一個問題但是我們這幾年也可以看見以這個最新的例子\n\n4\n00:01:08,798 --> 00:01:33,814\n這個土城圍棋老師猥褻12名兒童的案件呢就凸顯了兒童還是重複的被詢問因為呢最折磨人的地方就是光前端報案程序裡他向不同的窗口揭露案件共15次包括警方7次醫院3次社工3次檢察官2次\n\n5\n00:01:35,096 --> 00:01:40,448\n這15次的陳述都是對這個受害者再度的傷害那同時呢\n\n6\n00:01:41,940 --> 00:02:05,018\n民間展示協會近幾年來呢協助這些兒少性剝削被害人的經驗也發現現行的一些制度對他們相當的不友善除了重複詢問之外呢還沒有跟加害人有效隔離冗長訴訟的程序壓力導致他無法作證對他們造成身心的嚴重一個嚴重的影響那同時呢\n\n7\n00:02:06,279 --> 00:02:35,046\n因為每一次這個關鍵的詢問呢可能都會影響到這個案件的一個進行喔那可是我自己也有看見喔其實司法院在四月份的時候提出了一個司法週刊看到說為了落實CRC所建構的一個兒童基本權利及兒童最佳利益的原則你們卻盤點了法院的環境跟建設了一些相關的系統啦然後強化司法人員的一些知能跟優化審理的程序可是這樣子的事情還是發生了\n\n8\n00:02:37,039 --> 00:02:52,290\n這樣的事情還是發生的那司法院表示說會增強家事服務的方式來協助兒上所以我們來看一下如果以家事服務的中心跟這個兒童之家的一個架構來相比的話其實服務對象跟運作上其實有非常非常明顯的一個差別\n\n9\n00:02:53,251 --> 00:03:14,412\n所以我想問一下就是說如果我們以現在司法院來說我們是不是有可能怎麼樣子的來做往這個兒童之家的方向來邁進呢因為這個才是真正自從國家國際的專家學者建議的一個方向認為這才是能夠真正的守護到兒童這個蜂蜜可不可以簡短回憶一下\n\n10\n00:03:15,049 --> 00:03:39,029\n那個謝謝委員淳勳我想第一個先釐清的就是剛才的問題可能有一些層次不一樣的就是司法院在司法週刊中所宣示的就是我們的那個司法禁用的這一些措施呢那個是指說少年他進到了那個法院來之後的這些相關的這一些那個措施的優化那剛才委員所舉的對因為這個東西還是沒有關係所舉的那個土層的那個案件那個事實上是\n\n11\n00:03:42,552 --> 00:04:03,331\n完全是發生在最前端就是沒有使用到那個法院來是更前面的時候事件一發生的時候有關於那個警政這個部分的那個詢問所以那個重複詢問的那個問題那是事實上是不一樣的那至於說這一個現在這一個這個爭點的部分我請我們的那個中廳長就是邵家的那個中廳長來回覆\n\n12\n00:04:05,613 --> 00:04:17,241\n基本上應該這樣講我們是希望建立這個聯合司法訪談的制度也就是說因為兒童之家的概念就是說我不管是警政我是社工我是調檢調我全部都是在那一次都處理完\n\n13\n00:04:19,089 --> 00:04:47,034\n是謝謝委員關於這一部分我們一方面有建置司法詢問員司法詢問員來協助一次詢問那前端已經有設計有那個減少寵物陳述那如果是兒童被害人如何減少這些惡毒傷害那當然我國現在沒有建置類似剛剛說的國外兒童之家但是呢我們的家事服務中心其實已經是\n\n14\n00:04:47,694 --> 00:05:03,013\n建制有這個所謂陪同社工跟開庭前的對兒童有更多的一個身心的協助讓他穩定減少一些傷害另外我們建制有非常溫馨的這些詢問室不會在那個所謂的\n\n15\n00:05:05,636 --> 00:05:26,525\n這個法庭詢問那兒童詢問員再加上家事事件許多兒童要到法庭的話都有所謂的程序監理人程序監理人也選任進來那這些當然都是在建構減少兒童到法庭的傷害那至於將來是不是要朝著剛剛委員建議的這個兒童之家來建構我們會整體來構思跟一個一個研議以上\n\n16\n00:05:33,228 --> 00:05:48,601\n我了解那我接下來就想要問一下衛福部就是說因為其實雖然說我們有設立了相關的應該說人員啦專業人員來協助但是事實上這件事情就是反覆的發生也代表是說我們現行的機制的確是有一些\n\n17\n00:05:50,143 --> 00:06:08,217\n問題需要來去處理的那所以我想請教一下如果我們今天是如果從這個家暴防治法跟性侵害防治條性侵害犯罪防治法裡面我們可以看見說因為其實在這兩部法裡面都有相關要詢問受害人的一些條文可是我們可以看到我這裡在\n\n18\n00:06:08,977 --> 00:06:32,068\n把性侵害犯罪防治法裡面highlight的地方是他有特別針對於兒童的地方他有特別的講可是家暴防治法現在是沒有提到相關的條文的所以我想詢問兩件事情我們是不是可以再做家暴防治法也是跟應該這樣講家暴防治法一定要去做一些修法來調整然後但是性侵害犯罪防治法也要做得更精細這個部分我們是有一些相關的修法規劃嗎目前\n\n19\n00:06:34,389 --> 00:06:58,390\n目前有嗎非常感謝委員對於這個事情的推行我先簡單回復一下剛剛委員所說我們現在目前有關這個部分是在有關性侵害犯罪防治法裡面已經有設計那至於就是說剛剛委員說要不要extend到有關加保這部分我跟委員報告我們現在目前正在修那個兒少全法兒少全法的部分我們現在正在考慮是不是可以在兒少全法裡面來做這個相關的規範\n\n20\n00:06:59,671 --> 00:07:25,022\n兒童懸殼法是一定要做這個相關的規範啦但是我的意思是說在家暴防治法是不是也可以去把這個概念是因為兒童懸殼是一個基本的價格但是在每個地方應該都還是要放進去不然我覺得現在的狀況就是說如果你沒有放進去的話它很容易就漏掉了所以這個部分是不是可以一併的來去盤點在一起來盤點來做這件事情這個是不是讓我們回去我們帶回去我們來研究一下好那你們帶回去研究一下在那個有關那個家庭暴力防治法是不是也可以融入這個精神\n\n21\n00:07:25,322 --> 00:07:50,934\n好那第二件事情魏莎請魏夫婦兒來做的是說我們是不是可以針對這現在這兩個法裡面可能會處理到的案件我們可不可以先進行匡列先進行匡列呢然後來去說這些東西是不是我們可以先來試辦兒童之家的一個這樣子的模式來進行呢因為這其實是對小孩來說非常痛苦的一個狀態關於這個部分我是不是可以請我們保護司司長來請\n\n22\n00:07:52,174 --> 00:08:13,673\n目前在這個兒童之家這樣的概念在性侵犯罪防治法已經有在縣市推所謂的一戰式服務那就在偵查階段偵查前這個階段是已經朝向這個目標但是包括審判這部分就涉及到司法院的權責那我想這個是一個國家政策應該一併考慮\n\n23\n00:08:15,675 --> 00:08:42,554\n好那這樣聽起來就是說看起來是司法院跟衛福部要一起來討論嘛對不對是不是可以用這樣子的方式兒童之家的方式來一起整合各界的資源因為最重要的還是要守護兒童嘛因為其實這些民間團體也有講到很多的小孩到最後就會覺得說天啊他太痛苦了他可能就放棄了那其實這就不是讓等於是他從頭到尾都是一個受害者而他的正義沒有辦法得到伸張\n\n24\n00:08:43,414 --> 00:09:05,602\n所以這部分是不是可以請司法院跟衛福部一起來研擬這個我們往這個建置兒童之家的相關的單位我們是不是可以研擬這樣子的方向那我們是不是可以兩個月之後再來追蹤進度呢可以嗎我們再跟那個司法院這邊就這個議題我們來研擬方案然後再提供給再回給委員好謝謝\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n4492\t30660\t謝謝主席 我們有請司法院副秘書長以及衛福部應該是現在是誰 現在是市長好 現在是市長好 委員午安好 那首先呢 我想要先針對就是在2022年的時候呢兒童權利公約第二次國家審查性的一個國際審查結論一新意見書裡面呢其實有建議台灣應該要參考兒童之家的一個模式建立兒童友善司法的一個制度\n31320\t56257\t但是在後續各部會進行回應的時候呢將相關的建議拆成了七個部分由警政署、法務部、衛福部、司法院各自依照自己的夜館範圍來進行喔但是呢 當時為什麼會提出這樣子的一個建議我想 負面應該也非常非常清楚齁其實就是希望讓兒童不要被重複的審問或是詢問好 對吧 當時是這樣子齁\n59059\t66117\t那 可是呢 當時就是希望兒童不要遇到這樣子的一個問題但是我們這幾年也可以看見以這個最新的例子\n68798\t93814\t這個土城圍棋老師猥褻12名兒童的案件呢就凸顯了 兒童還是重複的被詢問因為呢 最折磨人的地方就是光前端報案程序裡他向不同的窗口揭露案件共15次包括警方7次 醫院3次 社工3次 檢察官2次\n95096\t100448\t這15次的陳述都是對這個受害者再度的傷害那同時呢\n101940\t125018\t民間展示協會近幾年來呢協助這些兒少性剝削被害人的經驗也發現現行的一些制度對他們相當的不友善除了重複詢問之外呢還沒有跟加害人有效隔離冗長訴訟的程序壓力導致他無法作證對他們造成身心的嚴重一個嚴重的影響那同時呢\n126279\t155046\t因為每一次這個關鍵的詢問呢可能都會影響到這個案件的一個進行喔那可是我自己也有看見喔其實司法院在四月份的時候提出了一個司法週刊看到說為了落實CRC所建構的一個兒童基本權利及兒童最佳利益的原則你們卻盤點了法院的環境跟建設了一些相關的系統啦然後強化司法人員的一些知能跟優化審理的程序可是這樣子的事情還是發生了\n157039\t172290\t這樣的事情還是發生的那司法院表示說會增強家事服務的方式來協助兒上所以我們來看一下如果以家事服務的中心跟這個兒童之家的一個架構來相比的話其實服務對象跟運作上其實有非常非常明顯的一個差別\n173251\t194412\t所以我想問一下就是說如果我們以現在司法院來說我們是不是有可能怎麼樣子的來做往這個兒童之家的方向來邁進呢因為這個才是真正自從國家國際的專家學者建議的一個方向認為這才是能夠真正的守護到兒童這個蜂蜜可不可以簡短回憶一下\n195049\t219029\t那個 謝謝委員淳勳我想第一個先釐清的就是剛才的問題可能有一些層次不一樣的就是司法院在司法週刊中所宣示的就是我們的那個司法禁用的這一些措施呢那個是指說少年他進到了那個法院來之後的這些相關的這一些那個措施的優化那剛才委員所舉的對 因為這個東西還是沒有關係所舉的那個土層的那個案件那個事實上是\n222552\t243331\t完全是發生在最前端就是沒有使用到那個法院來是更前面的時候事件一發生的時候有關於那個警政這個部分的那個詢問所以那個重複詢問的那個問題那是事實上是不一樣的那至於說這一個現在這一個這個爭點的部分我請我們的那個中廳長就是邵家的那個中廳長來回覆\n245613\t257241\t基本上應該這樣講我們是希望建立這個聯合司法訪談的制度也就是說因為兒童之家的概念就是說我不管是警政我是社工我是調檢調我全部都是在那一次都處理完\n259089\t287034\t是 謝謝委員關於這一部分我們一方面有建置司法詢問員司法詢問員來協助一次詢問那前端已經有設計有那個減少寵物陳述那如果是兒童被害人如何減少這些惡毒傷害那當然我國現在沒有建置類似剛剛說的國外兒童之家但是呢我們的家事服務中心其實已經是\n287694\t303013\t建制有這個所謂陪同社工跟開庭前的對兒童有更多的一個身心的協助讓他穩定減少一些傷害另外我們建制有非常溫馨的這些詢問室不會在那個所謂的\n305636\t326525\t這個法庭詢問那兒童詢問員再加上家事事件許多兒童要到法庭的話都有所謂的程序監理人程序監理人也選任進來那這些當然都是在建構減少兒童到法庭的傷害那至於將來是不是要朝著剛剛委員建議的這個兒童之家來建構我們會整體來構思跟一個一個研議以上\n333228\t348601\t我了解那我接下來就想要問一下衛福部就是說因為其實雖然說我們有設立了相關的應該說人員啦專業人員來協助但是事實上這件事情就是反覆的發生也代表是說我們現行的機制的確是有一些\n350143\t368217\t問題需要來去處理的那所以我想請教一下如果我們今天是如果從這個家暴防治法跟性侵害防治條性侵害犯罪防治法裡面我們可以看見說因為其實在這兩部法裡面都有相關要詢問受害人的一些條文可是我們可以看到我這裡在\n368977\t392068\t把性侵害犯罪防治法裡面highlight的地方是他有特別針對於兒童的地方他有特別的講可是家暴防治法現在是沒有提到相關的條文的所以我想詢問兩件事情我們是不是可以再做家暴防治法也是跟應該這樣講家暴防治法一定要去做一些修法來調整然後但是性侵害犯罪防治法也要做得更精細這個部分我們是有一些相關的修法規劃嗎目前\n394389\t418390\t目前有嗎非常感謝委員對於這個事情的推行我先簡單回復一下剛剛委員所說我們現在目前有關這個部分是在有關性侵害犯罪防治法裡面已經有設計那至於就是說剛剛委員說要不要extend到有關加保這部分我跟委員報告我們現在目前正在修那個兒少全法兒少全法的部分我們現在正在考慮是不是可以在兒少全法裡面來做這個相關的規範\n419671\t445022\t兒童懸殼法是一定要做這個相關的規範啦但是我的意思是說在家暴防治法是不是也可以去把這個概念是因為兒童懸殼是一個基本的價格但是在每個地方應該都還是要放進去不然我覺得現在的狀況就是說如果你沒有放進去的話它很容易就漏掉了所以這個部分是不是可以一併的來去盤點在一起來盤點來做這件事情這個是不是讓我們回去我們帶回去我們來研究一下好那你們帶回去研究一下在那個有關那個家庭暴力防治法是不是也可以融入這個精神\n445322\t470934\t好 那第二件事情 魏莎請魏夫婦兒來做的是說我們是不是可以針對這現在這兩個法裡面可能會處理到的案件我們可不可以先進行匡列先進行匡列呢 然後來去說這些東西是不是我們可以先來試辦兒童之家的一個這樣子的模式來進行呢因為這其實是對小孩來說非常痛苦的一個狀態關於這個部分我是不是可以請我們保護司司長來 請\n472174\t493673\t目前在這個兒童之家這樣的概念在性侵犯罪防治法已經有在縣市推所謂的一戰式服務那就在偵查階段偵查前這個階段是已經朝向這個目標但是包括審判這部分就涉及到司法院的權責那我想這個是一個國家政策應該一併考慮\n495675\t522554\t好那這樣聽起來就是說看起來是司法院跟衛福部要一起來討論嘛對不對是不是可以用這樣子的方式兒童之家的方式來一起整合各界的資源因為最重要的還是要守護兒童嘛因為其實這些民間團體也有講到很多的小孩到最後就會覺得說天啊他太痛苦了他可能就放棄了那其實這就不是讓等於是他從頭到尾都是一個受害者而他的正義沒有辦法得到伸張\n523414\t545602\t所以這部分是不是可以請司法院跟衛福部一起來研擬這個我們往這個建置兒童之家的相關的單位我們是不是可以研擬這樣子的方向那我們是不是可以兩個月之後再來追蹤進度呢可以嗎我們再跟那個司法院這邊就這個議題我們來研擬方案然後再提供給再回給委員好 謝謝\n","txt":"謝謝主席 我們有請司法院副秘書長以及衛福部應該是現在是誰 現在是市長好 現在是市長好 委員午安好 那首先呢 我想要先針對就是在2022年的時候呢兒童權利公約第二次國家審查性的一個國際審查結論一新意見書裡面呢其實有建議台灣應該要參考兒童之家的一個模式建立兒童友善司法的一個制度\n但是在後續各部會進行回應的時候呢將相關的建議拆成了七個部分由警政署、法務部、衛福部、司法院各自依照自己的夜館範圍來進行喔但是呢 當時為什麼會提出這樣子的一個建議我想 負面應該也非常非常清楚齁其實就是希望讓兒童不要被重複的審問或是詢問好 對吧 當時是這樣子齁\n那 可是呢 當時就是希望兒童不要遇到這樣子的一個問題但是我們這幾年也可以看見以這個最新的例子\n這個土城圍棋老師猥褻12名兒童的案件呢就凸顯了 兒童還是重複的被詢問因為呢 最折磨人的地方就是光前端報案程序裡他向不同的窗口揭露案件共15次包括警方7次 醫院3次 社工3次 檢察官2次\n這15次的陳述都是對這個受害者再度的傷害那同時呢\n民間展示協會近幾年來呢協助這些兒少性剝削被害人的經驗也發現現行的一些制度對他們相當的不友善除了重複詢問之外呢還沒有跟加害人有效隔離冗長訴訟的程序壓力導致他無法作證對他們造成身心的嚴重一個嚴重的影響那同時呢\n因為每一次這個關鍵的詢問呢可能都會影響到這個案件的一個進行喔那可是我自己也有看見喔其實司法院在四月份的時候提出了一個司法週刊看到說為了落實CRC所建構的一個兒童基本權利及兒童最佳利益的原則你們卻盤點了法院的環境跟建設了一些相關的系統啦然後強化司法人員的一些知能跟優化審理的程序可是這樣子的事情還是發生了\n這樣的事情還是發生的那司法院表示說會增強家事服務的方式來協助兒上所以我們來看一下如果以家事服務的中心跟這個兒童之家的一個架構來相比的話其實服務對象跟運作上其實有非常非常明顯的一個差別\n所以我想問一下就是說如果我們以現在司法院來說我們是不是有可能怎麼樣子的來做往這個兒童之家的方向來邁進呢因為這個才是真正自從國家國際的專家學者建議的一個方向認為這才是能夠真正的守護到兒童這個蜂蜜可不可以簡短回憶一下\n那個 謝謝委員淳勳我想第一個先釐清的就是剛才的問題可能有一些層次不一樣的就是司法院在司法週刊中所宣示的就是我們的那個司法禁用的這一些措施呢那個是指說少年他進到了那個法院來之後的這些相關的這一些那個措施的優化那剛才委員所舉的對 因為這個東西還是沒有關係所舉的那個土層的那個案件那個事實上是\n完全是發生在最前端就是沒有使用到那個法院來是更前面的時候事件一發生的時候有關於那個警政這個部分的那個詢問所以那個重複詢問的那個問題那是事實上是不一樣的那至於說這一個現在這一個這個爭點的部分我請我們的那個中廳長就是邵家的那個中廳長來回覆\n基本上應該這樣講我們是希望建立這個聯合司法訪談的制度也就是說因為兒童之家的概念就是說我不管是警政我是社工我是調檢調我全部都是在那一次都處理完\n是 謝謝委員關於這一部分我們一方面有建置司法詢問員司法詢問員來協助一次詢問那前端已經有設計有那個減少寵物陳述那如果是兒童被害人如何減少這些惡毒傷害那當然我國現在沒有建置類似剛剛說的國外兒童之家但是呢我們的家事服務中心其實已經是\n建制有這個所謂陪同社工跟開庭前的對兒童有更多的一個身心的協助讓他穩定減少一些傷害另外我們建制有非常溫馨的這些詢問室不會在那個所謂的\n這個法庭詢問那兒童詢問員再加上家事事件許多兒童要到法庭的話都有所謂的程序監理人程序監理人也選任進來那這些當然都是在建構減少兒童到法庭的傷害那至於將來是不是要朝著剛剛委員建議的這個兒童之家來建構我們會整體來構思跟一個一個研議以上\n我了解那我接下來就想要問一下衛福部就是說因為其實雖然說我們有設立了相關的應該說人員啦專業人員來協助但是事實上這件事情就是反覆的發生也代表是說我們現行的機制的確是有一些\n問題需要來去處理的那所以我想請教一下如果我們今天是如果從這個家暴防治法跟性侵害防治條性侵害犯罪防治法裡面我們可以看見說因為其實在這兩部法裡面都有相關要詢問受害人的一些條文可是我們可以看到我這裡在\n把性侵害犯罪防治法裡面highlight的地方是他有特別針對於兒童的地方他有特別的講可是家暴防治法現在是沒有提到相關的條文的所以我想詢問兩件事情我們是不是可以再做家暴防治法也是跟應該這樣講家暴防治法一定要去做一些修法來調整然後但是性侵害犯罪防治法也要做得更精細這個部分我們是有一些相關的修法規劃嗎目前\n目前有嗎非常感謝委員對於這個事情的推行我先簡單回復一下剛剛委員所說我們現在目前有關這個部分是在有關性侵害犯罪防治法裡面已經有設計那至於就是說剛剛委員說要不要extend到有關加保這部分我跟委員報告我們現在目前正在修那個兒少全法兒少全法的部分我們現在正在考慮是不是可以在兒少全法裡面來做這個相關的規範\n兒童懸殼法是一定要做這個相關的規範啦但是我的意思是說在家暴防治法是不是也可以去把這個概念是因為兒童懸殼是一個基本的價格但是在每個地方應該都還是要放進去不然我覺得現在的狀況就是說如果你沒有放進去的話它很容易就漏掉了所以這個部分是不是可以一併的來去盤點在一起來盤點來做這件事情這個是不是讓我們回去我們帶回去我們來研究一下好那你們帶回去研究一下在那個有關那個家庭暴力防治法是不是也可以融入這個精神\n好 那第二件事情 魏莎請魏夫婦兒來做的是說我們是不是可以針對這現在這兩個法裡面可能會處理到的案件我們可不可以先進行匡列先進行匡列呢 然後來去說這些東西是不是我們可以先來試辦兒童之家的一個這樣子的模式來進行呢因為這其實是對小孩來說非常痛苦的一個狀態關於這個部分我是不是可以請我們保護司司長來 請\n目前在這個兒童之家這樣的概念在性侵犯罪防治法已經有在縣市推所謂的一戰式服務那就在偵查階段偵查前這個階段是已經朝向這個目標但是包括審判這部分就涉及到司法院的權責那我想這個是一個國家政策應該一併考慮\n好那這樣聽起來就是說看起來是司法院跟衛福部要一起來討論嘛對不對是不是可以用這樣子的方式兒童之家的方式來一起整合各界的資源因為最重要的還是要守護兒童嘛因為其實這些民間團體也有講到很多的小孩到最後就會覺得說天啊他太痛苦了他可能就放棄了那其實這就不是讓等於是他從頭到尾都是一個受害者而他的正義沒有辦法得到伸張\n所以這部分是不是可以請司法院跟衛福部一起來研擬這個我們往這個建置兒童之家的相關的單位我們是不是可以研擬這樣子的方向那我們是不是可以兩個月之後再來追蹤進度呢可以嗎我們再跟那個司法院這邊就這個議題我們來研擬方案然後再提供給再回給委員好 謝謝\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:04.492 --> 00:30.660\n謝謝主席我們有請司法院副秘書長以及衛福部應該是現在是誰現在是市長好現在是市長好委員午安好那首先呢我想要先針對就是在2022年的時候呢兒童權利公約第二次國家審查性的一個國際審查結論一新意見書裡面呢其實有建議台灣應該要參考兒童之家的一個模式建立兒童友善司法的一個制度\n\n00:31.320 --> 00:56.257\n但是在後續各部會進行回應的時候呢將相關的建議拆成了七個部分由警政署、法務部、衛福部、司法院各自依照自己的夜館範圍來進行喔但是呢當時為什麼會提出這樣子的一個建議我想負面應該也非常非常清楚齁其實就是希望讓兒童不要被重複的審問或是詢問好對吧當時是這樣子齁\n\n00:59.059 --> 01:06.117\n那可是呢當時就是希望兒童不要遇到這樣子的一個問題但是我們這幾年也可以看見以這個最新的例子\n\n01:08.798 --> 01:33.814\n這個土城圍棋老師猥褻12名兒童的案件呢就凸顯了兒童還是重複的被詢問因為呢最折磨人的地方就是光前端報案程序裡他向不同的窗口揭露案件共15次包括警方7次醫院3次社工3次檢察官2次\n\n01:35.096 --> 01:40.448\n這15次的陳述都是對這個受害者再度的傷害那同時呢\n\n01:41.940 --> 02:05.018\n民間展示協會近幾年來呢協助這些兒少性剝削被害人的經驗也發現現行的一些制度對他們相當的不友善除了重複詢問之外呢還沒有跟加害人有效隔離冗長訴訟的程序壓力導致他無法作證對他們造成身心的嚴重一個嚴重的影響那同時呢\n\n02:06.279 --> 02:35.046\n因為每一次這個關鍵的詢問呢可能都會影響到這個案件的一個進行喔那可是我自己也有看見喔其實司法院在四月份的時候提出了一個司法週刊看到說為了落實CRC所建構的一個兒童基本權利及兒童最佳利益的原則你們卻盤點了法院的環境跟建設了一些相關的系統啦然後強化司法人員的一些知能跟優化審理的程序可是這樣子的事情還是發生了\n\n02:37.039 --> 02:52.290\n這樣的事情還是發生的那司法院表示說會增強家事服務的方式來協助兒上所以我們來看一下如果以家事服務的中心跟這個兒童之家的一個架構來相比的話其實服務對象跟運作上其實有非常非常明顯的一個差別\n\n02:53.251 --> 03:14.412\n所以我想問一下就是說如果我們以現在司法院來說我們是不是有可能怎麼樣子的來做往這個兒童之家的方向來邁進呢因為這個才是真正自從國家國際的專家學者建議的一個方向認為這才是能夠真正的守護到兒童這個蜂蜜可不可以簡短回憶一下\n\n03:15.049 --> 03:39.029\n那個謝謝委員淳勳我想第一個先釐清的就是剛才的問題可能有一些層次不一樣的就是司法院在司法週刊中所宣示的就是我們的那個司法禁用的這一些措施呢那個是指說少年他進到了那個法院來之後的這些相關的這一些那個措施的優化那剛才委員所舉的對因為這個東西還是沒有關係所舉的那個土層的那個案件那個事實上是\n\n03:42.552 --> 04:03.331\n完全是發生在最前端就是沒有使用到那個法院來是更前面的時候事件一發生的時候有關於那個警政這個部分的那個詢問所以那個重複詢問的那個問題那是事實上是不一樣的那至於說這一個現在這一個這個爭點的部分我請我們的那個中廳長就是邵家的那個中廳長來回覆\n\n04:05.613 --> 04:17.241\n基本上應該這樣講我們是希望建立這個聯合司法訪談的制度也就是說因為兒童之家的概念就是說我不管是警政我是社工我是調檢調我全部都是在那一次都處理完\n\n04:19.089 --> 04:47.034\n是謝謝委員關於這一部分我們一方面有建置司法詢問員司法詢問員來協助一次詢問那前端已經有設計有那個減少寵物陳述那如果是兒童被害人如何減少這些惡毒傷害那當然我國現在沒有建置類似剛剛說的國外兒童之家但是呢我們的家事服務中心其實已經是\n\n04:47.694 --> 05:03.013\n建制有這個所謂陪同社工跟開庭前的對兒童有更多的一個身心的協助讓他穩定減少一些傷害另外我們建制有非常溫馨的這些詢問室不會在那個所謂的\n\n05:05.636 --> 05:26.525\n這個法庭詢問那兒童詢問員再加上家事事件許多兒童要到法庭的話都有所謂的程序監理人程序監理人也選任進來那這些當然都是在建構減少兒童到法庭的傷害那至於將來是不是要朝著剛剛委員建議的這個兒童之家來建構我們會整體來構思跟一個一個研議以上\n\n05:33.228 --> 05:48.601\n我了解那我接下來就想要問一下衛福部就是說因為其實雖然說我們有設立了相關的應該說人員啦專業人員來協助但是事實上這件事情就是反覆的發生也代表是說我們現行的機制的確是有一些\n\n05:50.143 --> 06:08.217\n問題需要來去處理的那所以我想請教一下如果我們今天是如果從這個家暴防治法跟性侵害防治條性侵害犯罪防治法裡面我們可以看見說因為其實在這兩部法裡面都有相關要詢問受害人的一些條文可是我們可以看到我這裡在\n\n06:08.977 --> 06:32.068\n把性侵害犯罪防治法裡面highlight的地方是他有特別針對於兒童的地方他有特別的講可是家暴防治法現在是沒有提到相關的條文的所以我想詢問兩件事情我們是不是可以再做家暴防治法也是跟應該這樣講家暴防治法一定要去做一些修法來調整然後但是性侵害犯罪防治法也要做得更精細這個部分我們是有一些相關的修法規劃嗎目前\n\n06:34.389 --> 06:58.390\n目前有嗎非常感謝委員對於這個事情的推行我先簡單回復一下剛剛委員所說我們現在目前有關這個部分是在有關性侵害犯罪防治法裡面已經有設計那至於就是說剛剛委員說要不要extend到有關加保這部分我跟委員報告我們現在目前正在修那個兒少全法兒少全法的部分我們現在正在考慮是不是可以在兒少全法裡面來做這個相關的規範\n\n06:59.671 --> 07:25.022\n兒童懸殼法是一定要做這個相關的規範啦但是我的意思是說在家暴防治法是不是也可以去把這個概念是因為兒童懸殼是一個基本的價格但是在每個地方應該都還是要放進去不然我覺得現在的狀況就是說如果你沒有放進去的話它很容易就漏掉了所以這個部分是不是可以一併的來去盤點在一起來盤點來做這件事情這個是不是讓我們回去我們帶回去我們來研究一下好那你們帶回去研究一下在那個有關那個家庭暴力防治法是不是也可以融入這個精神\n\n07:25.322 --> 07:50.934\n好那第二件事情魏莎請魏夫婦兒來做的是說我們是不是可以針對這現在這兩個法裡面可能會處理到的案件我們可不可以先進行匡列先進行匡列呢然後來去說這些東西是不是我們可以先來試辦兒童之家的一個這樣子的模式來進行呢因為這其實是對小孩來說非常痛苦的一個狀態關於這個部分我是不是可以請我們保護司司長來請\n\n07:52.174 --> 08:13.673\n目前在這個兒童之家這樣的概念在性侵犯罪防治法已經有在縣市推所謂的一戰式服務那就在偵查階段偵查前這個階段是已經朝向這個目標但是包括審判這部分就涉及到司法院的權責那我想這個是一個國家政策應該一併考慮\n\n08:15.675 --> 08:42.554\n好那這樣聽起來就是說看起來是司法院跟衛福部要一起來討論嘛對不對是不是可以用這樣子的方式兒童之家的方式來一起整合各界的資源因為最重要的還是要守護兒童嘛因為其實這些民間團體也有講到很多的小孩到最後就會覺得說天啊他太痛苦了他可能就放棄了那其實這就不是讓等於是他從頭到尾都是一個受害者而他的正義沒有辦法得到伸張\n\n08:43.414 --> 09:05.602\n所以這部分是不是可以請司法院跟衛福部一起來研擬這個我們往這個建置兒童之家的相關的單位我們是不是可以研擬這樣子的方向那我們是不是可以兩個月之後再來追蹤進度呢可以嗎我們再跟那個司法院這邊就這個議題我們來研擬方案然後再提供給再回給委員好謝謝\n\n","segments":[{"start":4.492,"end":30.66,"text":"謝謝主席 我們有請司法院副秘書長以及衛福部應該是現在是誰 現在是市長好 現在是市長好 委員午安好 那首先呢 我想要先針對就是在2022年的時候呢兒童權利公約第二次國家審查性的一個國際審查結論一新意見書裡面呢其實有建議台灣應該要參考兒童之家的一個模式建立兒童友善司法的一個制度"},{"start":31.32,"end":56.257,"text":"但是在後續各部會進行回應的時候呢將相關的建議拆成了七個部分由警政署、法務部、衛福部、司法院各自依照自己的夜館範圍來進行喔但是呢 當時為什麼會提出這樣子的一個建議我想 負面應該也非常非常清楚齁其實就是希望讓兒童不要被重複的審問或是詢問好 對吧 當時是這樣子齁"},{"start":59.059,"end":66.117,"text":"那 可是呢 當時就是希望兒童不要遇到這樣子的一個問題但是我們這幾年也可以看見以這個最新的例子"},{"start":68.798,"end":93.814,"text":"這個土城圍棋老師猥褻12名兒童的案件呢就凸顯了 兒童還是重複的被詢問因為呢 最折磨人的地方就是光前端報案程序裡他向不同的窗口揭露案件共15次包括警方7次 醫院3次 社工3次 檢察官2次"},{"start":95.096,"end":100.448,"text":"這15次的陳述都是對這個受害者再度的傷害那同時呢"},{"start":101.94,"end":125.018,"text":"民間展示協會近幾年來呢協助這些兒少性剝削被害人的經驗也發現現行的一些制度對他們相當的不友善除了重複詢問之外呢還沒有跟加害人有效隔離冗長訴訟的程序壓力導致他無法作證對他們造成身心的嚴重一個嚴重的影響那同時呢"},{"start":126.279,"end":155.046,"text":"因為每一次這個關鍵的詢問呢可能都會影響到這個案件的一個進行喔那可是我自己也有看見喔其實司法院在四月份的時候提出了一個司法週刊看到說為了落實CRC所建構的一個兒童基本權利及兒童最佳利益的原則你們卻盤點了法院的環境跟建設了一些相關的系統啦然後強化司法人員的一些知能跟優化審理的程序可是這樣子的事情還是發生了"},{"start":157.039,"end":172.29,"text":"這樣的事情還是發生的那司法院表示說會增強家事服務的方式來協助兒上所以我們來看一下如果以家事服務的中心跟這個兒童之家的一個架構來相比的話其實服務對象跟運作上其實有非常非常明顯的一個差別"},{"start":173.251,"end":194.412,"text":"所以我想問一下就是說如果我們以現在司法院來說我們是不是有可能怎麼樣子的來做往這個兒童之家的方向來邁進呢因為這個才是真正自從國家國際的專家學者建議的一個方向認為這才是能夠真正的守護到兒童這個蜂蜜可不可以簡短回憶一下"},{"start":195.049,"end":219.029,"text":"那個 謝謝委員淳勳我想第一個先釐清的就是剛才的問題可能有一些層次不一樣的就是司法院在司法週刊中所宣示的就是我們的那個司法禁用的這一些措施呢那個是指說少年他進到了那個法院來之後的這些相關的這一些那個措施的優化那剛才委員所舉的對 因為這個東西還是沒有關係所舉的那個土層的那個案件那個事實上是"},{"start":222.552,"end":243.331,"text":"完全是發生在最前端就是沒有使用到那個法院來是更前面的時候事件一發生的時候有關於那個警政這個部分的那個詢問所以那個重複詢問的那個問題那是事實上是不一樣的那至於說這一個現在這一個這個爭點的部分我請我們的那個中廳長就是邵家的那個中廳長來回覆"},{"start":245.613,"end":257.241,"text":"基本上應該這樣講我們是希望建立這個聯合司法訪談的制度也就是說因為兒童之家的概念就是說我不管是警政我是社工我是調檢調我全部都是在那一次都處理完"},{"start":259.089,"end":287.034,"text":"是 謝謝委員關於這一部分我們一方面有建置司法詢問員司法詢問員來協助一次詢問那前端已經有設計有那個減少寵物陳述那如果是兒童被害人如何減少這些惡毒傷害那當然我國現在沒有建置類似剛剛說的國外兒童之家但是呢我們的家事服務中心其實已經是"},{"start":287.694,"end":303.013,"text":"建制有這個所謂陪同社工跟開庭前的對兒童有更多的一個身心的協助讓他穩定減少一些傷害另外我們建制有非常溫馨的這些詢問室不會在那個所謂的"},{"start":305.636,"end":326.525,"text":"這個法庭詢問那兒童詢問員再加上家事事件許多兒童要到法庭的話都有所謂的程序監理人程序監理人也選任進來那這些當然都是在建構減少兒童到法庭的傷害那至於將來是不是要朝著剛剛委員建議的這個兒童之家來建構我們會整體來構思跟一個一個研議以上"},{"start":333.228,"end":348.601,"text":"我了解那我接下來就想要問一下衛福部就是說因為其實雖然說我們有設立了相關的應該說人員啦專業人員來協助但是事實上這件事情就是反覆的發生也代表是說我們現行的機制的確是有一些"},{"start":350.143,"end":368.217,"text":"問題需要來去處理的那所以我想請教一下如果我們今天是如果從這個家暴防治法跟性侵害防治條性侵害犯罪防治法裡面我們可以看見說因為其實在這兩部法裡面都有相關要詢問受害人的一些條文可是我們可以看到我這裡在"},{"start":368.977,"end":392.068,"text":"把性侵害犯罪防治法裡面highlight的地方是他有特別針對於兒童的地方他有特別的講可是家暴防治法現在是沒有提到相關的條文的所以我想詢問兩件事情我們是不是可以再做家暴防治法也是跟應該這樣講家暴防治法一定要去做一些修法來調整然後但是性侵害犯罪防治法也要做得更精細這個部分我們是有一些相關的修法規劃嗎目前"},{"start":394.389,"end":418.39,"text":"目前有嗎非常感謝委員對於這個事情的推行我先簡單回復一下剛剛委員所說我們現在目前有關這個部分是在有關性侵害犯罪防治法裡面已經有設計那至於就是說剛剛委員說要不要extend到有關加保這部分我跟委員報告我們現在目前正在修那個兒少全法兒少全法的部分我們現在正在考慮是不是可以在兒少全法裡面來做這個相關的規範"},{"start":419.671,"end":445.022,"text":"兒童懸殼法是一定要做這個相關的規範啦但是我的意思是說在家暴防治法是不是也可以去把這個概念是因為兒童懸殼是一個基本的價格但是在每個地方應該都還是要放進去不然我覺得現在的狀況就是說如果你沒有放進去的話它很容易就漏掉了所以這個部分是不是可以一併的來去盤點在一起來盤點來做這件事情這個是不是讓我們回去我們帶回去我們來研究一下好那你們帶回去研究一下在那個有關那個家庭暴力防治法是不是也可以融入這個精神"},{"start":445.322,"end":470.934,"text":"好 那第二件事情 魏莎請魏夫婦兒來做的是說我們是不是可以針對這現在這兩個法裡面可能會處理到的案件我們可不可以先進行匡列先進行匡列呢 然後來去說這些東西是不是我們可以先來試辦兒童之家的一個這樣子的模式來進行呢因為這其實是對小孩來說非常痛苦的一個狀態關於這個部分我是不是可以請我們保護司司長來 請"},{"start":472.174,"end":493.673,"text":"目前在這個兒童之家這樣的概念在性侵犯罪防治法已經有在縣市推所謂的一戰式服務那就在偵查階段偵查前這個階段是已經朝向這個目標但是包括審判這部分就涉及到司法院的權責那我想這個是一個國家政策應該一併考慮"},{"start":495.675,"end":522.554,"text":"好那這樣聽起來就是說看起來是司法院跟衛福部要一起來討論嘛對不對是不是可以用這樣子的方式兒童之家的方式來一起整合各界的資源因為最重要的還是要守護兒童嘛因為其實這些民間團體也有講到很多的小孩到最後就會覺得說天啊他太痛苦了他可能就放棄了那其實這就不是讓等於是他從頭到尾都是一個受害者而他的正義沒有辦法得到伸張"},{"start":523.414,"end":545.602,"text":"所以這部分是不是可以請司法院跟衛福部一起來研擬這個我們往這個建置兒童之家的相關的單位我們是不是可以研擬這樣子的方向那我們是不是可以兩個月之後再來追蹤進度呢可以嗎我們再跟那個司法院這邊就這個議題我們來研擬方案然後再提供給再回給委員好 謝謝"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":1189,"blocks":[["張委員雅琳：（13時2分）謝謝主席，我們有請司法院副秘書長，以及衛福部應該是……現在是誰？"],["主席：次長。"],["張委員雅琳：現在是次長？好。"],["王副秘書長梅英：委員午安。"],["張委員雅琳：首先我想要先針對在2022年的時候，兒童權利公約第二次國家審查性的國際審查結論性意見書裡面，其實有建議臺灣應該要參考兒童之家的模式，建立兒童友善司法的制度。但是在後續各部會進行回應的時候，將相關的建議拆成7個部分，由警政署、法務部、衛福部、司法院各自依照自己的業管範圍進行。","當時為什麼會提出這樣的建議？我想副秘應該也非常非常清楚，其實就是希望讓兒童不要被重複地審問或是詢問，對吧？當時就是希望兒童不要遇到這樣的問題。但是我們這幾年也可以看見，以這個最新的例子，土城圍棋老師猥褻12名兒童的案件就凸顯了兒童還是重複地被詢問。最折磨人的地方就是，光前端報案程序裡，向不同的窗口揭露案件共15次，包括警方7次、醫院3次、社工3次、檢察官2次，這15次的陳述都是對這個受害者再度的傷害。","同時，民間展翅協會近幾年來協助這些兒少性剝削被害人的經驗，也發現現行的一些制度對他們相當地不友善。除了重複訊問之外，還沒有跟加害人有效隔離，以及冗長訴訟的程序、壓力，導致他無法作證，對他們的身心造成嚴重影響。每一次關鍵的詢問可能都會影響到這個案件的進行。可是我自己也有看見，其實司法院在4月份提出的司法周刊，說為了落實CRC所建構的兒童基本權利及兒童最佳利益原則，你們去盤點了法院的環境跟建置了一些相關的系統，以及強化司法人員的一些知能跟優化審理的程序，可是這樣子的事情還是發生了。司法院表示會增強家事服務的方式協助兒少。","可是我們來看一下，如果以家事服務中心跟兒童之家的架構來相比的話，其實服務對象跟運作上有非常非常明顯的差別。所以我想問一下，如果以現在司法院來說，我們是不是有可能怎麼樣做，往兒童之家的方向邁進呢？因為這個才是真正國際專家學者建議的方向，認為這才能夠真正地守護到兒童。副秘可不可以簡短回一下？"],["王副秘書長梅英：謝謝委員垂詢。我想第一個先釐清，就是剛才的問題可能有一些層次不一樣的，就是司法院在司法周刊中所宣示我們司法近用的措施，那個是指少年進到法院來之後相關措施的優化。剛才委員所舉的……"],["張委員雅琳：對，因為跟那個東西還是沒有關係。"],["王副秘書長梅英：所舉的土城那個案件，事實上完全是發生在最前端，就是沒有使用到法院來，是更前面的時候、事件一發生的時候有關於警政這個部分的詢問，所以那個重複詢問的問題事實上是不一樣的。至於現在這個爭點的部分，我請少家的鍾廳長回覆。"],["張委員雅琳：基本上應該這樣講，我們是希望建立聯合司法訪談的制度。也就是說，兒童之家的概念就是，不管我是警政、我是社工、我是檢調等等，全部都是在那一次處理完。"],["鍾廳長宗霖：謝謝委員。關於這部分，我們一方面有建置司法詢問員協助一次詢問，前端已經有設計減少重複陳述。如果是兒童被害人，如何減少這些二度傷害？當然我國現在沒有建置類似剛剛說的國外兒童之家，但是我們的家事服務中心其實已經建置有陪同社工跟開庭前對兒童有更多的身心協助，讓他穩定，減少一些傷害。","另外，我們建置有非常溫馨的詢問室，不會在法庭詢問。兒童詢問員再加上家事事件，許多兒童要到法庭的話，都有程序監理人，程序監理人也選任進來，這些當然都是在建構減少兒童到法庭的傷害。至於將來是不是要朝著剛剛委員建議的兒童之家來建構，我們會整體構思跟研議，以上。"],["張委員雅琳：好，我了解，我接下來就想要問一下衛福部。雖然我們有設立相關的專業人員來協助，但是事實上這件事情就是反覆地發生，也代表我們現行的機制的確是有一些問題需要去處理。所以我想請教一下，如果今天是從家暴防治法跟性侵害犯罪防治法，我們可以看見，其實在這兩部法裡面都有相關要詢問受害人的一些條文。"],["呂次長建德：對，沒錯。"],["張委員雅琳：可是我們可以看到我這裡把性侵害犯罪防治法裡面highlight的地方，特別針對於兒童的地方它有特別講，可是家暴防治法現在是沒有提到相關條文的。"],["呂次長建德：沒錯。"],["張委員雅琳：所以我想詢問兩件事情，家暴防治法一定要去做一些修法調整，但是性侵害犯罪防治法也要做得更精細，這個部分我們有一些相關的修法規劃嗎？目前有嗎？"],["呂次長建德：非常感謝委員對於這個事情的垂詢，我先簡單回覆。誠如剛剛委員所說，我們目前這個部分在性侵害犯罪防治法裡面已經有設計。至於剛剛委員說要不要extend到有關家暴這部分，我跟委員報告，我們現在正在修兒少權法，我們現在正在考慮是不是可以在兒少權法裡面做相關的規範。"],["張委員雅琳：兒少權法一定要做相關的規範，但是我的意思是說，在家暴防治法是不是也可以把這個概念……因為兒少權法是個基本的架構……"],["呂次長建德：沒錯。"],["張委員雅琳：但是在每個地方應該都還是要放進去，不然我覺得現在的狀況就是，如果你沒有放進去的話，它很容易就漏掉了。所以這個部分是不是可以一併盤點，一起來做這件事情？"],["呂次長建德：OK，這個是不是容我們帶回去研究一下，在有關家庭暴力防治法是不是也可以融入這個精神，好不好？"],["張委員雅琳：好，你們帶回去研究一下。第二件事情，我也要請衛福部來做的是，我們是不是可以針對現在這兩個法裡面可能會處理到的案件先進行匡列，然後去說我們是不是可以先來試辦，在兒童之家的模式進行？因為這個其實對小孩來說是一個非常痛苦的狀態。"],["呂次長建德：關於這個部分，我是不是可以請我們保護司司長？"],["張司長秀鴛：目前在兒童之家的概念，在性侵害犯罪防治法裡已經有在縣市推所謂的一站式服務，在偵查前這個階段已經朝向這個目標。但是，包括審判這部分就涉及司法院的權責。我想這個是一個國家政策，應該一併考慮。"],["張委員雅琳：好。這樣聽起來，是司法院跟衛福部要一起討論嘛！對不對？是不是可以用兒童之家的方式一起整合各界的資源？"],["呂次長建德：好，OK。"],["張委員雅琳：因為最重要還是要守護兒童嘛！"],["呂次長建德：是，當然。"],["張委員雅琳：這些民間團體也有講到，很多的小孩到最後就會覺得說：天啊！他太痛苦了！他可能就放棄了。其實這不是就等於他從頭到尾都是一個受害者，而他的正義沒有辦法得到伸張？所以這部分是不是可以請司法院跟衛福部，一起來研擬建置兒童之家的相關單位？我們是不是可以研擬這樣子的方向？"],["呂次長建德：好。"],["張委員雅琳：那我們是不是可以兩個月之後再來追蹤進度呢？"],["呂次長建德：OK，好。"],["張委員雅琳：可以嗎？"],["呂次長建德：我們再跟司法院就這個議題研擬方案，然後再回給委員。"],["張委員雅琳：好，謝謝。"],["呂次長建德：謝謝委員。"],["主席：好，謝謝。","所有登記發言委員都已經發言完畢，詢答結束。委員質詢時要求提供相關資料或以書面答復者，請相關機關儘速送交委員及本會。","委員林國成、林倩綺所提書面質詢，列入紀錄，刊登公報，並請相關機關以書面答復。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":432,"meet_id":"委員會-11-3-36-20","speakers":["吳宗憲","王義川","陳培瑜","吳思瑤","黃國昌","沈發惠","羅智強","莊瑞雄","林月琴","王鴻薇","張啓楷","徐欣瑩","葉元之","翁曉玲","林倩綺","張雅琳","林國成"],"page_start":355,"meetingDate":["2025-06-18"],"gazette_id":"1146101","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1146101_00008"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期司法及法制委員會第20次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請司法院副秘書長、法務部部長、衛生福利部部長、教育部部長、法務部矯正署署長、內政部\n警政署署長、勞動部、法務部廉政署率所屬相關單位列席就「青少年刑案嫌疑人於2024年創歷年\n新高，達4.7萬餘人次，現行少年輔導、矯正效能，包括校園霸凌處理機制、高關懷學生、安置\n輔導、保護管束、感化教育、職能訓練、更生系統、中介轉銜機制、追蹤輔導、逆境社工等，及\n《少年事件處理法》『行政輔導先行』施行迄今近兩年，相關制度之檢討與策進」進行專題報\n告，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1146101_00007"}}}