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{\"word\": \"宗\", \"start\": 642.905, \"end\": 642.925, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"憲\"}, {\"word\": \"趙\"}, {\"word\": \"偉\"}, {\"word\": \"請\"}, {\"word\": \"吳\"}, {\"word\": \"宗\", \"start\": 642.925, \"end\": 642.945, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"憲\"}, {\"word\": \"趙\"}, {\"word\": \"偉\"}, {\"word\": \"繼\"}, {\"word\": \"續\"}, {\"word\": \"主\", \"start\": 642.945, \"end\": 643.005, \"score\": 0.667}, {\"word\": \"持\", \"start\": 643.005, \"end\": 643.025, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"議\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:00,850 --> 00:00:10,897\n內政部次長人事長還有移民署署長委員好委員好好謝謝\n\n2\n00:00:26,196 --> 00:00:46,117\n首先我先請教次長我們直接就開明見山的題我想請問一下一個問題就是有關這次租屋補貼的問題我想這個是大概全國人民很重視的一個議題所以我就放到今天也穿插進來請教一下\n\n3\n00:00:47,538 --> 00:01:13,925\n這個去年那個總統他在國慶演講的時候他競選的時候他就已經有講過協助百萬戶租屋加戶計畫還有國慶演講的時候他有提到說實現居住正義擴大對租屋族的照顧那去年也有提到說租金補貼要提升到75萬戶那行政院會通過300億的那個中央擴大租金補貼專案計畫\n\n4\n00:01:15,865 --> 00:01:27,464\n中央喔兩個字中央那中央會全數補助那怎麼為什麼現在又變了又變成那個內政部長又說這個要改成地方要負責籌措部分的支出請問次長\n\n5\n00:01:28,430 --> 00:01:54,195\n好謝謝委員我想這邊簡單跟委員報告我想租金補貼的部分當然是賴總統的政策那我們目前的話大概已經實際上的租的租補案件是61萬戶所以目標70萬不變那至於剛剛委員所垂詢的部分就是有關這個租金的一個負擔支出那其實在這個在最早的版本裡面其實地方本來就是也要負擔的不是啊最早版本我不知道我只知道後來總統他講的叫做中央全數給予補助啊\n\n6\n00:01:54,975 --> 00:02:14,341\n我只知道你們提出來的叫做中央擴大租金補貼專案計畫你看一下PPT上面的嘛這個是統籌由中央負責來做撥款所以中央統籌的意思就是中央開支票地方\n\n7\n00:02:16,104 --> 00:02:45,043\n地方付錢中央請客地方買單這個在當時我記得在1123年的時候其實就已經有這個的規範了就是說其實地方還是要負擔一定的不是啊那這樣子等於又在騙人又在大內宣了嘛大內宣說我中央負責全額嘛然後實際要做的時候又說叫地方付那我又請教一下那為什麼中央不能付還是中央一開始中央的心態就是我只是開這個票支票開出來就地方要一起付請問一下次長是哪一個\n\n8\n00:02:47,302 --> 00:03:03,744\n市長您是長賜嘛長賜一定很了解啊正賜我就不想多問了那請問一下長賜那到底這個是怎麼回事講一講又變地方要付錢謝謝委員的指教我想這個其實預算的部分其實我們每年在編包括那個\n\n9\n00:03:05,236 --> 00:03:27,736\n公務預算或相關的時候或者是我們訂定前瞻預算其實這一些的數額我們都會放在報給行政院的內容那這次的不是啊你這問A答B啊你講這個東西就是編列預算的正常做法嘛我現在請教的問題是中央以及我剛秀給你看的PPT講得很清楚是中央付錢那現在要做的時候變成\n\n10\n00:03:28,971 --> 00:03:46,831\n票是中央開的請客邀約的是中央付錢的是地方我現在立體是這個我不能問A答B啦好不好您是常識不正識不要學正識啦好不好那請問一下為什麼變成是地方要付錢甚至台北好像要到40%嘛\n\n11\n00:03:48,853 --> 00:04:13,851\n這個也應該跟今年的預算其實也有被刪減也有關啦又來了我跟你講你們又開始我跟你講內政部現在是造謠部啦內政部長我都已經告發了造謠他去搞他的台灣國嘛他就最愛搞台灣國最愛搞台灣國的主人他就去時間都花在搞這些還有在那邊騙人啦什麼租金補貼被刪光那這我已經依法告發了啦但我覺得這個都很糟糕\n\n12\n00:04:14,871 --> 00:04:31,077\n什麼時候中央的部會變成是造謠的大本營啦我跟你講啦那我在這邊再說一次說到都爛掉了今年的總預算史上最高啦比去年還多729億啦然後非法定義物支出是1.3兆那所謂的被刪的講說什麼636億那個只佔2%啦\n\n13\n00:04:34,198 --> 00:04:51,920\n然後在那邊跟全國說調整不了那不是比陳水扁跟張信雄時代更不如嗎張信雄時代他們的預算數更低啊而且被刪的更高好像五十幾億還是多少人家從政府運作的順順利利的也平平安安的今天到我們這裡來\n\n14\n00:04:53,762 --> 00:05:06,056\n廁所衛生直接買不起也沒有水然後再來啦我跟你講我覺得很恐怖的就是這個政府我在這邊跟各位報告跟全國人民報告這很恐怖的是這個政府一般性補助款對的是\n\n15\n00:05:08,262 --> 00:05:25,320\n縣市裡面的一些教育的支出那個弱勢團體的支出你也敢砍租金補貼租屋族很辛苦你也敢砍你也叫地方付地方現在付不出來然後什麼都說是預算被刪為了罷免可以這麼做我這也服了你們了齁\n\n16\n00:05:26,501 --> 00:05:45,566\n我覺得你又在這邊講預算支出我才跟你提這個不然我完全不想再提這個那個才化法的跟這個總預算的問題因為都講到爛掉了再講也沒有用所以你一下砍地方補助款一下砍租屋補貼每一刀都是砍向弱勢團體啦我跟你講啦您是事務官出身嘛我也是事務官出身的\n\n17\n00:05:46,266 --> 00:06:08,088\n我們都是為這個國家為這個人民在思考結果我今天看到的是政府是這麼做您是事務官出身但是您是次長你在這邊可能也不方便講一些話但是大家心裡應該都有感啦怎麼會政府會運作到今天這樣每一刀都是砍向弱勢團體而且去年還超收五千多億我真的覺得\n\n18\n00:06:09,646 --> 00:06:38,140\n這樣沒有辦法做事情那我請教一下移民署署長我們昨天辦公室有跟移民第二代他們的團體在座談那他們一直有提到一個點就是說他們覺得在跨部門的事項上面你們的聯繫是很不足的他們一直跟我們有這些抱怨那他們也擔心說日後成立這個新住民發展署會有一樣的問題請問署長在橫向聯繫上面是不是有出問題\n\n19\n00:06:39,749 --> 00:07:02,227\n報告委員事實上我們這個在新住民相關事務的部分我們行政院有成立一個這個協調匯報那有關新住民的相關的跨部會的一些業務都是由這個行政院來召開新住民事務協調匯報就相關資源的整合這個部分由新住民事務協調匯報來協助做處理\n\n20\n00:07:04,761 --> 00:07:22,057\n所以你認為不會有問題目前為止是不會有太大的問題那我跟你講喔政府機關永遠說沒問題但是人民這些新住民二代他們一直覺得有問題所以我在這邊要跟署長說明這個狀況他們也擔心新住民發展署成立之後也會一樣\n\n21\n00:07:22,958 --> 00:07:26,240\n的問題會發生所以我在這邊跟您說明一下\n\n22\n00:07:53,218 --> 00:08:18,734\n在正常的狀況之下應該是我們新住民及其子女他應該有足夠的發聲的聲量以上不是啊我跟你講你現在講的是官方的說法但是我現在回應給你的是人民的感受這些團體他們來是二代新住民的二代他們這個團體來跟我們辦公室開會我們都有會議記錄我們的結論他們就是做這樣子的反應所以我要反應跟處長說也就是說我不可能一直說我做的多好啊\n\n23\n00:08:19,474 --> 00:08:45,158\n我一直這樣講對我做得多棒不可能會有問題但是使用者覺得有問題嘛消費者的回饋就是覺得有問題嘛那我就沒辦法說我自己很好公務機關如果你覺得自己做得非常好可是人民的感受不是如此好有關落差的部分我們會來加強溝通那請教一下任市長喔請問喔那個接下來我們有一些那個新住民的這個那個發展署\n\n24\n00:08:46,505 --> 00:09:02,875\n請問一下他們如果需要有一些人力的增列,這個人事總署這邊會同意增編嗎?這本來成立機關以後,該增的延遏,我想我們第一個階段會從移民署,他有一個移民事務署,那些人扛開,帶過來,出了沒辦法,我們會去倒傘\n\n25\n00:09:05,396 --> 00:09:23,937\n所以你們沒有問題嗎那我為什麼問這個問題就是因為那個劉四方部長他一直說會與行政院人事總署跟主委總署研擬這個組織如何調整那至少我現在就聽到了就是人總這邊沒有問題那將來我就不能接受說內政部如果再跟我說人總這邊在\n\n26\n00:09:25,399 --> 00:09:51,859\n在卡住或什麼所以謝謝那個任市長告訴我這個沒問題最後20秒我說因為剛剛黃國昌委員有提到這個籌備處的問題那個市長因為我們看到就是劉思芳部長在4月的時候他口頭有說籌備小組已經開16次了那我想說既然開了16次那你們應該有完整的這個小組的名單啦對不對應該有嘛應該不至於說照人剛剛說你也不知道\n\n27\n00:09:52,600 --> 00:10:10,599\n小組有多少人所以要請市長再您是小組的召集人嗎我是召集人我主持過7次那移民署本身自己也召開過12次那其實小組成員都是我們跟移民署那甚至包括我們內政部的人事處相關單位都有派員\n\n28\n00:10:13,221 --> 00:10:40,219\n我們還是需要知道一些進度啦所以如果說你們那裡都沒有一個完整的資料給我們但我們也會疑惑所以請你們進度一定要出來好不好沒問題那就人事長這邊再麻煩您您剛也說說這個沒有問題嘛我想說因為有時候我會遇到一些主管會用人事處這邊人事總處在卡這個人力啦然後來回應好那就謝謝謝謝人事長\n\n29\n00:10:42,484 --> 00:10:43,025\n謝謝次長謝謝署長好謝謝吳宗憲趙偉請吳宗憲趙偉繼續主持會議\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n850\t10897\t內政部次長 人事長 還有移民署署長委員好委員好好 謝謝\n26196\t46117\t首先我先請教次長我們直接就開明見山的題我想請問一下一個問題就是有關這次租屋補貼的問題我想這個是大概全國人民很重視的一個議題所以我就放到今天也穿插進來請教一下\n47538\t73925\t這個去年那個總統他在國慶演講的時候他競選的時候他就已經有講過協助百萬戶租屋加戶計畫還有國慶演講的時候他有提到說實現居住正義擴大對租屋族的照顧那去年也有提到說租金補貼要提升到75萬戶那行政院會通過300億的那個中央擴大租金補貼專案計畫\n75865\t87464\t中央喔 兩個字 中央那中央會全數補助那怎麼為什麼現在又變了 又變成那個內政部長又說這個要改成地方要負責籌措部分的支出請問次長\n88430\t114195\t好謝謝委員我想這邊簡單跟委員報告我想租金補貼的部分當然是賴總統的政策那我們目前的話大概已經實際上的租的租補案件是61萬戶所以目標70萬不變那至於剛剛委員所垂詢的部分就是有關這個租金的一個負擔支出那其實在這個在最早的版本裡面其實地方本來就是也要負擔的不是啊最早版本我不知道我只知道後來總統他講的叫做中央全數給予補助啊\n114975\t134341\t我只知道你們提出來的叫做中央擴大租金補貼專案計畫你看一下PPT上面的嘛 這個是統籌由中央負責來做撥款所以中央統籌的意思就是中央開支票地方\n136104\t165043\t地方付錢 中央請客地方買單這個在當時 我記得在1123年的時候其實就已經有這個的規範了就是說其實地方還是要負擔一定的不是啊 那這樣子等於又在騙人又在大內宣了嘛大內宣說我中央負責全額嘛然後實際要做的時候又說叫地方付那我又請教一下那為什麼中央不能付還是中央一開始 中央的心態就是我只是開這個票 支票開出來就地方要一起付請問一下次長是哪一個\n167302\t183744\t市長您是長賜嘛長賜一定很了解啊正賜我就不想多問了那請問一下長賜那到底這個是怎麼回事講一講又變地方要付錢謝謝委員的指教我想這個其實預算的部分其實我們每年在編包括那個\n185236\t207736\t公務預算或相關的時候或者是我們訂定前瞻預算其實這一些的數額我們都會放在報給行政院的內容那這次的不是啊 你這問A答B啊你講這個東西就是編列預算的正常做法嘛我現在請教的問題是中央以及我剛秀給你看的PPT講得很清楚是中央付錢那現在要做的時候變成\n208971\t226831\t票是中央開的 請客邀約的是中央 付錢的是地方我現在立體是這個 我不能問A答B啦好不好 您是常識不正識 不要學正識啦好不好 那請問一下為什麼變成是地方要付錢 甚至台北好像要到40%嘛\n228853\t253851\t這個也應該跟今年的預算其實也有被刪減也有關啦又來了我跟你講你們又開始我跟你講內政部現在是造謠部啦內政部長我都已經告發了造謠他去搞他的台灣國嘛他就最愛搞台灣國最愛搞台灣國的主人他就去時間都花在搞這些還有在那邊騙人啦什麼租金補貼被刪光那這我已經依法告發了啦但我覺得這個都很糟糕\n254871\t271077\t什麼時候中央的部會變成是造謠的大本營啦我跟你講啦那我在這邊再說一次說到都爛掉了今年的總預算史上最高啦比去年還多729億啦然後非法定義物支出是1.3兆那所謂的被刪的講說什麼636億那個只佔2%啦\n274198\t291920\t然後在那邊跟全國說調整不了那不是比陳水扁跟張信雄時代更不如嗎張信雄時代他們的預算數更低啊而且被刪的更高好像五十幾億還是多少人家從政府運作的順順利利的也平平安安的今天到我們這裡來\n293762\t306056\t廁所衛生直接買不起 也沒有水然後再來啦 我跟你講 我覺得很恐怖的就是這個政府我在這邊跟各位報告 跟全國人民報告這很恐怖的是這個政府一般性補助款對的是\n308262\t325320\t縣市裡面的一些教育的支出那個弱勢團體的支出你也敢砍租金補貼租屋族很辛苦你也敢砍你也叫地方付地方現在付不出來然後什麼都說是預算被刪為了罷免可以這麼做我這也服了你們了齁\n326501\t345566\t我覺得你又在這邊講預算支出我才跟你提這個不然我完全不想再提這個那個才化法的跟這個總預算的問題因為都講到爛掉了 再講也沒有用所以你一下砍地方補助款 一下砍租屋補貼每一刀都是砍向弱勢團體啦我跟你講啦 您是事務官出身嘛我也是事務官出身的\n346266\t368088\t我們都是為這個國家為這個人民在思考結果我今天看到的是政府是這麼做您是事務官出身但是您是次長你在這邊可能也不方便講一些話但是大家心裡應該都有感啦怎麼會政府會運作到今天這樣每一刀都是砍向弱勢團體而且去年還超收五千多億我真的覺得\n369646\t398140\t這樣沒有辦法做事情那我請教一下移民署署長我們昨天辦公室有跟移民第二代他們的團體在座談那他們一直有提到一個點就是說他們覺得在跨部門的事項上面你們的聯繫是很不足的他們一直跟我們有這些抱怨那他們也擔心說日後成立這個新住民發展署會有一樣的問題請問署長在橫向聯繫上面是不是有出問題\n399749\t422227\t報告委員 事實上我們這個在新住民相關事務的部分我們行政院有成立一個這個協調匯報那有關新住民的相關的跨部會的一些業務都是由這個行政院來召開新住民事務協調匯報就相關資源的整合這個部分由新住民事務協調匯報來協助做處理\n424761\t442057\t所以你認為不會有問題目前為止是不會有太大的問題那我跟你講喔政府機關永遠說沒問題但是人民這些新住民二代他們一直覺得有問題所以我在這邊要跟署長說明這個狀況他們也擔心新住民發展署成立之後也會一樣\n442958\t446240\t的問題會發生 所以我在這邊跟您說明一下\n473218\t498734\t在正常的狀況之下應該是我們新住民及其子女他應該有足夠的發聲的聲量以上不是啊我跟你講你現在講的是官方的說法但是我現在回應給你的是人民的感受這些團體他們來是二代新住民的二代他們這個團體來跟我們辦公室開會我們都有會議記錄我們的結論他們就是做這樣子的反應所以我要反應跟處長說也就是說我不可能一直說我做的多好啊\n499474\t525158\t我一直這樣講對我做得多棒不可能會有問題但是使用者覺得有問題嘛消費者的回饋就是覺得有問題嘛那我就沒辦法說我自己很好公務機關如果你覺得自己做得非常好可是人民的感受不是如此好有關落差的部分我們會來加強溝通那請教一下任市長喔請問喔那個接下來我們有一些那個新住民的這個那個發展署\n526505\t542875\t請問一下他們如果需要有一些人力的增列,這個人事總署這邊會同意增編嗎?這本來成立機關以後,該增的延遏,我想我們第一個階段會從移民署,他有一個移民事務署,那些人扛開,帶過來,出了沒辦法,我們會去倒傘\n545396\t563937\t所以你們沒有問題嗎那我為什麼問這個問題就是因為那個劉四方部長他一直說會與行政院人事總署跟主委總署研擬這個組織如何調整那至少我現在就聽到了就是人總這邊沒有問題那將來我就不能接受說內政部如果再跟我說人總這邊在\n565399\t591859\t在卡住或什麼 所以謝謝那個任市長告訴我這個沒問題最後20秒我說因為剛剛黃國昌委員有提到這個籌備處的問題那個市長因為我們看到就是劉思芳部長在4月的時候他口頭有說籌備小組已經開16次了那我想說既然開了16次那你們應該有完整的這個小組的名單啦對不對應該有嘛應該不至於說照人剛剛說你也不知道\n592600\t610599\t小組有多少人所以要請市長再您是小組的召集人嗎我是召集人我主持過7次那移民署本身自己也召開過12次那其實小組成員都是我們跟移民署那甚至包括我們內政部的人事處相關單位都有派員\n613221\t640219\t我們還是需要知道一些進度啦所以如果說你們那裡都沒有一個完整的資料給我們但我們也會疑惑所以請你們進度一定要出來好不好沒問題那就人事長這邊再麻煩您您剛也說說這個沒有問題嘛我想說因為有時候我會遇到一些主管會用人事處這邊人事總處在卡這個人力啦然後來回應好那就謝謝 謝謝人事長\n642484\t643025\t謝謝次長 謝謝署長好 謝謝吳宗憲 趙偉 請吳宗憲 趙偉繼續主持會議\n","txt":"內政部次長 人事長 還有移民署署長委員好委員好好 謝謝\n首先我先請教次長我們直接就開明見山的題我想請問一下一個問題就是有關這次租屋補貼的問題我想這個是大概全國人民很重視的一個議題所以我就放到今天也穿插進來請教一下\n這個去年那個總統他在國慶演講的時候他競選的時候他就已經有講過協助百萬戶租屋加戶計畫還有國慶演講的時候他有提到說實現居住正義擴大對租屋族的照顧那去年也有提到說租金補貼要提升到75萬戶那行政院會通過300億的那個中央擴大租金補貼專案計畫\n中央喔 兩個字 中央那中央會全數補助那怎麼為什麼現在又變了 又變成那個內政部長又說這個要改成地方要負責籌措部分的支出請問次長\n好謝謝委員我想這邊簡單跟委員報告我想租金補貼的部分當然是賴總統的政策那我們目前的話大概已經實際上的租的租補案件是61萬戶所以目標70萬不變那至於剛剛委員所垂詢的部分就是有關這個租金的一個負擔支出那其實在這個在最早的版本裡面其實地方本來就是也要負擔的不是啊最早版本我不知道我只知道後來總統他講的叫做中央全數給予補助啊\n我只知道你們提出來的叫做中央擴大租金補貼專案計畫你看一下PPT上面的嘛 這個是統籌由中央負責來做撥款所以中央統籌的意思就是中央開支票地方\n地方付錢 中央請客地方買單這個在當時 我記得在1123年的時候其實就已經有這個的規範了就是說其實地方還是要負擔一定的不是啊 那這樣子等於又在騙人又在大內宣了嘛大內宣說我中央負責全額嘛然後實際要做的時候又說叫地方付那我又請教一下那為什麼中央不能付還是中央一開始 中央的心態就是我只是開這個票 支票開出來就地方要一起付請問一下次長是哪一個\n市長您是長賜嘛長賜一定很了解啊正賜我就不想多問了那請問一下長賜那到底這個是怎麼回事講一講又變地方要付錢謝謝委員的指教我想這個其實預算的部分其實我們每年在編包括那個\n公務預算或相關的時候或者是我們訂定前瞻預算其實這一些的數額我們都會放在報給行政院的內容那這次的不是啊 你這問A答B啊你講這個東西就是編列預算的正常做法嘛我現在請教的問題是中央以及我剛秀給你看的PPT講得很清楚是中央付錢那現在要做的時候變成\n票是中央開的 請客邀約的是中央 付錢的是地方我現在立體是這個 我不能問A答B啦好不好 您是常識不正識 不要學正識啦好不好 那請問一下為什麼變成是地方要付錢 甚至台北好像要到40%嘛\n這個也應該跟今年的預算其實也有被刪減也有關啦又來了我跟你講你們又開始我跟你講內政部現在是造謠部啦內政部長我都已經告發了造謠他去搞他的台灣國嘛他就最愛搞台灣國最愛搞台灣國的主人他就去時間都花在搞這些還有在那邊騙人啦什麼租金補貼被刪光那這我已經依法告發了啦但我覺得這個都很糟糕\n什麼時候中央的部會變成是造謠的大本營啦我跟你講啦那我在這邊再說一次說到都爛掉了今年的總預算史上最高啦比去年還多729億啦然後非法定義物支出是1.3兆那所謂的被刪的講說什麼636億那個只佔2%啦\n然後在那邊跟全國說調整不了那不是比陳水扁跟張信雄時代更不如嗎張信雄時代他們的預算數更低啊而且被刪的更高好像五十幾億還是多少人家從政府運作的順順利利的也平平安安的今天到我們這裡來\n廁所衛生直接買不起 也沒有水然後再來啦 我跟你講 我覺得很恐怖的就是這個政府我在這邊跟各位報告 跟全國人民報告這很恐怖的是這個政府一般性補助款對的是\n縣市裡面的一些教育的支出那個弱勢團體的支出你也敢砍租金補貼租屋族很辛苦你也敢砍你也叫地方付地方現在付不出來然後什麼都說是預算被刪為了罷免可以這麼做我這也服了你們了齁\n我覺得你又在這邊講預算支出我才跟你提這個不然我完全不想再提這個那個才化法的跟這個總預算的問題因為都講到爛掉了 再講也沒有用所以你一下砍地方補助款 一下砍租屋補貼每一刀都是砍向弱勢團體啦我跟你講啦 您是事務官出身嘛我也是事務官出身的\n我們都是為這個國家為這個人民在思考結果我今天看到的是政府是這麼做您是事務官出身但是您是次長你在這邊可能也不方便講一些話但是大家心裡應該都有感啦怎麼會政府會運作到今天這樣每一刀都是砍向弱勢團體而且去年還超收五千多億我真的覺得\n這樣沒有辦法做事情那我請教一下移民署署長我們昨天辦公室有跟移民第二代他們的團體在座談那他們一直有提到一個點就是說他們覺得在跨部門的事項上面你們的聯繫是很不足的他們一直跟我們有這些抱怨那他們也擔心說日後成立這個新住民發展署會有一樣的問題請問署長在橫向聯繫上面是不是有出問題\n報告委員 事實上我們這個在新住民相關事務的部分我們行政院有成立一個這個協調匯報那有關新住民的相關的跨部會的一些業務都是由這個行政院來召開新住民事務協調匯報就相關資源的整合這個部分由新住民事務協調匯報來協助做處理\n所以你認為不會有問題目前為止是不會有太大的問題那我跟你講喔政府機關永遠說沒問題但是人民這些新住民二代他們一直覺得有問題所以我在這邊要跟署長說明這個狀況他們也擔心新住民發展署成立之後也會一樣\n的問題會發生 所以我在這邊跟您說明一下\n在正常的狀況之下應該是我們新住民及其子女他應該有足夠的發聲的聲量以上不是啊我跟你講你現在講的是官方的說法但是我現在回應給你的是人民的感受這些團體他們來是二代新住民的二代他們這個團體來跟我們辦公室開會我們都有會議記錄我們的結論他們就是做這樣子的反應所以我要反應跟處長說也就是說我不可能一直說我做的多好啊\n我一直這樣講對我做得多棒不可能會有問題但是使用者覺得有問題嘛消費者的回饋就是覺得有問題嘛那我就沒辦法說我自己很好公務機關如果你覺得自己做得非常好可是人民的感受不是如此好有關落差的部分我們會來加強溝通那請教一下任市長喔請問喔那個接下來我們有一些那個新住民的這個那個發展署\n請問一下他們如果需要有一些人力的增列,這個人事總署這邊會同意增編嗎?這本來成立機關以後,該增的延遏,我想我們第一個階段會從移民署,他有一個移民事務署,那些人扛開,帶過來,出了沒辦法,我們會去倒傘\n所以你們沒有問題嗎那我為什麼問這個問題就是因為那個劉四方部長他一直說會與行政院人事總署跟主委總署研擬這個組織如何調整那至少我現在就聽到了就是人總這邊沒有問題那將來我就不能接受說內政部如果再跟我說人總這邊在\n在卡住或什麼 所以謝謝那個任市長告訴我這個沒問題最後20秒我說因為剛剛黃國昌委員有提到這個籌備處的問題那個市長因為我們看到就是劉思芳部長在4月的時候他口頭有說籌備小組已經開16次了那我想說既然開了16次那你們應該有完整的這個小組的名單啦對不對應該有嘛應該不至於說照人剛剛說你也不知道\n小組有多少人所以要請市長再您是小組的召集人嗎我是召集人我主持過7次那移民署本身自己也召開過12次那其實小組成員都是我們跟移民署那甚至包括我們內政部的人事處相關單位都有派員\n我們還是需要知道一些進度啦所以如果說你們那裡都沒有一個完整的資料給我們但我們也會疑惑所以請你們進度一定要出來好不好沒問題那就人事長這邊再麻煩您您剛也說說這個沒有問題嘛我想說因為有時候我會遇到一些主管會用人事處這邊人事總處在卡這個人力啦然後來回應好那就謝謝 謝謝人事長\n謝謝次長 謝謝署長好 謝謝吳宗憲 趙偉 請吳宗憲 趙偉繼續主持會議\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.850 --> 00:10.897\n內政部次長人事長還有移民署署長委員好委員好好謝謝\n\n00:26.196 --> 00:46.117\n首先我先請教次長我們直接就開明見山的題我想請問一下一個問題就是有關這次租屋補貼的問題我想這個是大概全國人民很重視的一個議題所以我就放到今天也穿插進來請教一下\n\n00:47.538 --> 01:13.925\n這個去年那個總統他在國慶演講的時候他競選的時候他就已經有講過協助百萬戶租屋加戶計畫還有國慶演講的時候他有提到說實現居住正義擴大對租屋族的照顧那去年也有提到說租金補貼要提升到75萬戶那行政院會通過300億的那個中央擴大租金補貼專案計畫\n\n01:15.865 --> 01:27.464\n中央喔兩個字中央那中央會全數補助那怎麼為什麼現在又變了又變成那個內政部長又說這個要改成地方要負責籌措部分的支出請問次長\n\n01:28.430 --> 01:54.195\n好謝謝委員我想這邊簡單跟委員報告我想租金補貼的部分當然是賴總統的政策那我們目前的話大概已經實際上的租的租補案件是61萬戶所以目標70萬不變那至於剛剛委員所垂詢的部分就是有關這個租金的一個負擔支出那其實在這個在最早的版本裡面其實地方本來就是也要負擔的不是啊最早版本我不知道我只知道後來總統他講的叫做中央全數給予補助啊\n\n01:54.975 --> 02:14.341\n我只知道你們提出來的叫做中央擴大租金補貼專案計畫你看一下PPT上面的嘛這個是統籌由中央負責來做撥款所以中央統籌的意思就是中央開支票地方\n\n02:16.104 --> 02:45.043\n地方付錢中央請客地方買單這個在當時我記得在1123年的時候其實就已經有這個的規範了就是說其實地方還是要負擔一定的不是啊那這樣子等於又在騙人又在大內宣了嘛大內宣說我中央負責全額嘛然後實際要做的時候又說叫地方付那我又請教一下那為什麼中央不能付還是中央一開始中央的心態就是我只是開這個票支票開出來就地方要一起付請問一下次長是哪一個\n\n02:47.302 --> 03:03.744\n市長您是長賜嘛長賜一定很了解啊正賜我就不想多問了那請問一下長賜那到底這個是怎麼回事講一講又變地方要付錢謝謝委員的指教我想這個其實預算的部分其實我們每年在編包括那個\n\n03:05.236 --> 03:27.736\n公務預算或相關的時候或者是我們訂定前瞻預算其實這一些的數額我們都會放在報給行政院的內容那這次的不是啊你這問A答B啊你講這個東西就是編列預算的正常做法嘛我現在請教的問題是中央以及我剛秀給你看的PPT講得很清楚是中央付錢那現在要做的時候變成\n\n03:28.971 --> 03:46.831\n票是中央開的請客邀約的是中央付錢的是地方我現在立體是這個我不能問A答B啦好不好您是常識不正識不要學正識啦好不好那請問一下為什麼變成是地方要付錢甚至台北好像要到40%嘛\n\n03:48.853 --> 04:13.851\n這個也應該跟今年的預算其實也有被刪減也有關啦又來了我跟你講你們又開始我跟你講內政部現在是造謠部啦內政部長我都已經告發了造謠他去搞他的台灣國嘛他就最愛搞台灣國最愛搞台灣國的主人他就去時間都花在搞這些還有在那邊騙人啦什麼租金補貼被刪光那這我已經依法告發了啦但我覺得這個都很糟糕\n\n04:14.871 --> 04:31.077\n什麼時候中央的部會變成是造謠的大本營啦我跟你講啦那我在這邊再說一次說到都爛掉了今年的總預算史上最高啦比去年還多729億啦然後非法定義物支出是1.3兆那所謂的被刪的講說什麼636億那個只佔2%啦\n\n04:34.198 --> 04:51.920\n然後在那邊跟全國說調整不了那不是比陳水扁跟張信雄時代更不如嗎張信雄時代他們的預算數更低啊而且被刪的更高好像五十幾億還是多少人家從政府運作的順順利利的也平平安安的今天到我們這裡來\n\n04:53.762 --> 05:06.056\n廁所衛生直接買不起也沒有水然後再來啦我跟你講我覺得很恐怖的就是這個政府我在這邊跟各位報告跟全國人民報告這很恐怖的是這個政府一般性補助款對的是\n\n05:08.262 --> 05:25.320\n縣市裡面的一些教育的支出那個弱勢團體的支出你也敢砍租金補貼租屋族很辛苦你也敢砍你也叫地方付地方現在付不出來然後什麼都說是預算被刪為了罷免可以這麼做我這也服了你們了齁\n\n05:26.501 --> 05:45.566\n我覺得你又在這邊講預算支出我才跟你提這個不然我完全不想再提這個那個才化法的跟這個總預算的問題因為都講到爛掉了再講也沒有用所以你一下砍地方補助款一下砍租屋補貼每一刀都是砍向弱勢團體啦我跟你講啦您是事務官出身嘛我也是事務官出身的\n\n05:46.266 --> 06:08.088\n我們都是為這個國家為這個人民在思考結果我今天看到的是政府是這麼做您是事務官出身但是您是次長你在這邊可能也不方便講一些話但是大家心裡應該都有感啦怎麼會政府會運作到今天這樣每一刀都是砍向弱勢團體而且去年還超收五千多億我真的覺得\n\n06:09.646 --> 06:38.140\n這樣沒有辦法做事情那我請教一下移民署署長我們昨天辦公室有跟移民第二代他們的團體在座談那他們一直有提到一個點就是說他們覺得在跨部門的事項上面你們的聯繫是很不足的他們一直跟我們有這些抱怨那他們也擔心說日後成立這個新住民發展署會有一樣的問題請問署長在橫向聯繫上面是不是有出問題\n\n06:39.749 --> 07:02.227\n報告委員事實上我們這個在新住民相關事務的部分我們行政院有成立一個這個協調匯報那有關新住民的相關的跨部會的一些業務都是由這個行政院來召開新住民事務協調匯報就相關資源的整合這個部分由新住民事務協調匯報來協助做處理\n\n07:04.761 --> 07:22.057\n所以你認為不會有問題目前為止是不會有太大的問題那我跟你講喔政府機關永遠說沒問題但是人民這些新住民二代他們一直覺得有問題所以我在這邊要跟署長說明這個狀況他們也擔心新住民發展署成立之後也會一樣\n\n07:22.958 --> 07:26.240\n的問題會發生所以我在這邊跟您說明一下\n\n07:53.218 --> 08:18.734\n在正常的狀況之下應該是我們新住民及其子女他應該有足夠的發聲的聲量以上不是啊我跟你講你現在講的是官方的說法但是我現在回應給你的是人民的感受這些團體他們來是二代新住民的二代他們這個團體來跟我們辦公室開會我們都有會議記錄我們的結論他們就是做這樣子的反應所以我要反應跟處長說也就是說我不可能一直說我做的多好啊\n\n08:19.474 --> 08:45.158\n我一直這樣講對我做得多棒不可能會有問題但是使用者覺得有問題嘛消費者的回饋就是覺得有問題嘛那我就沒辦法說我自己很好公務機關如果你覺得自己做得非常好可是人民的感受不是如此好有關落差的部分我們會來加強溝通那請教一下任市長喔請問喔那個接下來我們有一些那個新住民的這個那個發展署\n\n08:46.505 --> 09:02.875\n請問一下他們如果需要有一些人力的增列,這個人事總署這邊會同意增編嗎?這本來成立機關以後,該增的延遏,我想我們第一個階段會從移民署,他有一個移民事務署,那些人扛開,帶過來,出了沒辦法,我們會去倒傘\n\n09:05.396 --> 09:23.937\n所以你們沒有問題嗎那我為什麼問這個問題就是因為那個劉四方部長他一直說會與行政院人事總署跟主委總署研擬這個組織如何調整那至少我現在就聽到了就是人總這邊沒有問題那將來我就不能接受說內政部如果再跟我說人總這邊在\n\n09:25.399 --> 09:51.859\n在卡住或什麼所以謝謝那個任市長告訴我這個沒問題最後20秒我說因為剛剛黃國昌委員有提到這個籌備處的問題那個市長因為我們看到就是劉思芳部長在4月的時候他口頭有說籌備小組已經開16次了那我想說既然開了16次那你們應該有完整的這個小組的名單啦對不對應該有嘛應該不至於說照人剛剛說你也不知道\n\n09:52.600 --> 10:10.599\n小組有多少人所以要請市長再您是小組的召集人嗎我是召集人我主持過7次那移民署本身自己也召開過12次那其實小組成員都是我們跟移民署那甚至包括我們內政部的人事處相關單位都有派員\n\n10:13.221 --> 10:40.219\n我們還是需要知道一些進度啦所以如果說你們那裡都沒有一個完整的資料給我們但我們也會疑惑所以請你們進度一定要出來好不好沒問題那就人事長這邊再麻煩您您剛也說說這個沒有問題嘛我想說因為有時候我會遇到一些主管會用人事處這邊人事總處在卡這個人力啦然後來回應好那就謝謝謝謝人事長\n\n10:42.484 --> 10:43.025\n謝謝次長謝謝署長好謝謝吳宗憲趙偉請吳宗憲趙偉繼續主持會議\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.85,"end":10.897,"text":"內政部次長 人事長 還有移民署署長委員好委員好好 謝謝"},{"start":26.196,"end":46.117,"text":"首先我先請教次長我們直接就開明見山的題我想請問一下一個問題就是有關這次租屋補貼的問題我想這個是大概全國人民很重視的一個議題所以我就放到今天也穿插進來請教一下"},{"start":47.538,"end":73.925,"text":"這個去年那個總統他在國慶演講的時候他競選的時候他就已經有講過協助百萬戶租屋加戶計畫還有國慶演講的時候他有提到說實現居住正義擴大對租屋族的照顧那去年也有提到說租金補貼要提升到75萬戶那行政院會通過300億的那個中央擴大租金補貼專案計畫"},{"start":75.865,"end":87.464,"text":"中央喔 兩個字 中央那中央會全數補助那怎麼為什麼現在又變了 又變成那個內政部長又說這個要改成地方要負責籌措部分的支出請問次長"},{"start":88.43,"end":114.195,"text":"好謝謝委員我想這邊簡單跟委員報告我想租金補貼的部分當然是賴總統的政策那我們目前的話大概已經實際上的租的租補案件是61萬戶所以目標70萬不變那至於剛剛委員所垂詢的部分就是有關這個租金的一個負擔支出那其實在這個在最早的版本裡面其實地方本來就是也要負擔的不是啊最早版本我不知道我只知道後來總統他講的叫做中央全數給予補助啊"},{"start":114.975,"end":134.341,"text":"我只知道你們提出來的叫做中央擴大租金補貼專案計畫你看一下PPT上面的嘛 這個是統籌由中央負責來做撥款所以中央統籌的意思就是中央開支票地方"},{"start":136.104,"end":165.043,"text":"地方付錢 中央請客地方買單這個在當時 我記得在1123年的時候其實就已經有這個的規範了就是說其實地方還是要負擔一定的不是啊 那這樣子等於又在騙人又在大內宣了嘛大內宣說我中央負責全額嘛然後實際要做的時候又說叫地方付那我又請教一下那為什麼中央不能付還是中央一開始 中央的心態就是我只是開這個票 支票開出來就地方要一起付請問一下次長是哪一個"},{"start":167.302,"end":183.744,"text":"市長您是長賜嘛長賜一定很了解啊正賜我就不想多問了那請問一下長賜那到底這個是怎麼回事講一講又變地方要付錢謝謝委員的指教我想這個其實預算的部分其實我們每年在編包括那個"},{"start":185.236,"end":207.736,"text":"公務預算或相關的時候或者是我們訂定前瞻預算其實這一些的數額我們都會放在報給行政院的內容那這次的不是啊 你這問A答B啊你講這個東西就是編列預算的正常做法嘛我現在請教的問題是中央以及我剛秀給你看的PPT講得很清楚是中央付錢那現在要做的時候變成"},{"start":208.971,"end":226.831,"text":"票是中央開的 請客邀約的是中央 付錢的是地方我現在立體是這個 我不能問A答B啦好不好 您是常識不正識 不要學正識啦好不好 那請問一下為什麼變成是地方要付錢 甚至台北好像要到40%嘛"},{"start":228.853,"end":253.851,"text":"這個也應該跟今年的預算其實也有被刪減也有關啦又來了我跟你講你們又開始我跟你講內政部現在是造謠部啦內政部長我都已經告發了造謠他去搞他的台灣國嘛他就最愛搞台灣國最愛搞台灣國的主人他就去時間都花在搞這些還有在那邊騙人啦什麼租金補貼被刪光那這我已經依法告發了啦但我覺得這個都很糟糕"},{"start":254.871,"end":271.077,"text":"什麼時候中央的部會變成是造謠的大本營啦我跟你講啦那我在這邊再說一次說到都爛掉了今年的總預算史上最高啦比去年還多729億啦然後非法定義物支出是1.3兆那所謂的被刪的講說什麼636億那個只佔2%啦"},{"start":274.198,"end":291.92,"text":"然後在那邊跟全國說調整不了那不是比陳水扁跟張信雄時代更不如嗎張信雄時代他們的預算數更低啊而且被刪的更高好像五十幾億還是多少人家從政府運作的順順利利的也平平安安的今天到我們這裡來"},{"start":293.762,"end":306.056,"text":"廁所衛生直接買不起 也沒有水然後再來啦 我跟你講 我覺得很恐怖的就是這個政府我在這邊跟各位報告 跟全國人民報告這很恐怖的是這個政府一般性補助款對的是"},{"start":308.262,"end":325.32,"text":"縣市裡面的一些教育的支出那個弱勢團體的支出你也敢砍租金補貼租屋族很辛苦你也敢砍你也叫地方付地方現在付不出來然後什麼都說是預算被刪為了罷免可以這麼做我這也服了你們了齁"},{"start":326.501,"end":345.566,"text":"我覺得你又在這邊講預算支出我才跟你提這個不然我完全不想再提這個那個才化法的跟這個總預算的問題因為都講到爛掉了 再講也沒有用所以你一下砍地方補助款 一下砍租屋補貼每一刀都是砍向弱勢團體啦我跟你講啦 您是事務官出身嘛我也是事務官出身的"},{"start":346.266,"end":368.088,"text":"我們都是為這個國家為這個人民在思考結果我今天看到的是政府是這麼做您是事務官出身但是您是次長你在這邊可能也不方便講一些話但是大家心裡應該都有感啦怎麼會政府會運作到今天這樣每一刀都是砍向弱勢團體而且去年還超收五千多億我真的覺得"},{"start":369.646,"end":398.14,"text":"這樣沒有辦法做事情那我請教一下移民署署長我們昨天辦公室有跟移民第二代他們的團體在座談那他們一直有提到一個點就是說他們覺得在跨部門的事項上面你們的聯繫是很不足的他們一直跟我們有這些抱怨那他們也擔心說日後成立這個新住民發展署會有一樣的問題請問署長在橫向聯繫上面是不是有出問題"},{"start":399.749,"end":422.227,"text":"報告委員 事實上我們這個在新住民相關事務的部分我們行政院有成立一個這個協調匯報那有關新住民的相關的跨部會的一些業務都是由這個行政院來召開新住民事務協調匯報就相關資源的整合這個部分由新住民事務協調匯報來協助做處理"},{"start":424.761,"end":442.057,"text":"所以你認為不會有問題目前為止是不會有太大的問題那我跟你講喔政府機關永遠說沒問題但是人民這些新住民二代他們一直覺得有問題所以我在這邊要跟署長說明這個狀況他們也擔心新住民發展署成立之後也會一樣"},{"start":442.958,"end":446.24,"text":"的問題會發生 所以我在這邊跟您說明一下"},{"start":473.218,"end":498.734,"text":"在正常的狀況之下應該是我們新住民及其子女他應該有足夠的發聲的聲量以上不是啊我跟你講你現在講的是官方的說法但是我現在回應給你的是人民的感受這些團體他們來是二代新住民的二代他們這個團體來跟我們辦公室開會我們都有會議記錄我們的結論他們就是做這樣子的反應所以我要反應跟處長說也就是說我不可能一直說我做的多好啊"},{"start":499.474,"end":525.158,"text":"我一直這樣講對我做得多棒不可能會有問題但是使用者覺得有問題嘛消費者的回饋就是覺得有問題嘛那我就沒辦法說我自己很好公務機關如果你覺得自己做得非常好可是人民的感受不是如此好有關落差的部分我們會來加強溝通那請教一下任市長喔請問喔那個接下來我們有一些那個新住民的這個那個發展署"},{"start":526.505,"end":542.875,"text":"請問一下他們如果需要有一些人力的增列,這個人事總署這邊會同意增編嗎?這本來成立機關以後,該增的延遏,我想我們第一個階段會從移民署,他有一個移民事務署,那些人扛開,帶過來,出了沒辦法,我們會去倒傘"},{"start":545.396,"end":563.937,"text":"所以你們沒有問題嗎那我為什麼問這個問題就是因為那個劉四方部長他一直說會與行政院人事總署跟主委總署研擬這個組織如何調整那至少我現在就聽到了就是人總這邊沒有問題那將來我就不能接受說內政部如果再跟我說人總這邊在"},{"start":565.399,"end":591.859,"text":"在卡住或什麼 所以謝謝那個任市長告訴我這個沒問題最後20秒我說因為剛剛黃國昌委員有提到這個籌備處的問題那個市長因為我們看到就是劉思芳部長在4月的時候他口頭有說籌備小組已經開16次了那我想說既然開了16次那你們應該有完整的這個小組的名單啦對不對應該有嘛應該不至於說照人剛剛說你也不知道"},{"start":592.6,"end":610.599,"text":"小組有多少人所以要請市長再您是小組的召集人嗎我是召集人我主持過7次那移民署本身自己也召開過12次那其實小組成員都是我們跟移民署那甚至包括我們內政部的人事處相關單位都有派員"},{"start":613.221,"end":640.219,"text":"我們還是需要知道一些進度啦所以如果說你們那裡都沒有一個完整的資料給我們但我們也會疑惑所以請你們進度一定要出來好不好沒問題那就人事長這邊再麻煩您您剛也說說這個沒有問題嘛我想說因為有時候我會遇到一些主管會用人事處這邊人事總處在卡這個人力啦然後來回應好那就謝謝 謝謝人事長"},{"start":642.484,"end":643.025,"text":"謝謝次長 謝謝署長好 謝謝吳宗憲 趙偉 請吳宗憲 趙偉繼續主持會議"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":268,"blocks":[["吳委員宗憲：（9時28分）謝謝。我們麻煩內政部次長、人事長，還有移民署署長。"],["吳次長堂安：委員好！"],["蘇人事長俊榮：委員好！"],["吳委員宗憲：首先，我先請教次長，次長，我們直接就開山見山的提，我想請問一個問題，就是有關租屋補貼的問題，我想這個大概是全國人民很重視的一個議題，所以我就放到今天也穿插進來請教一下。","總統在競選的時候就已經有講過協助百萬戶租屋家戶計畫；還有國慶演講的時候也有提到要實現居住正義，擴大對租屋族的照顧；去年也有提到租金補貼要提升到75萬戶，行政院會通過300億的中央擴大租金補貼專案計畫，「中央」兩個字，「中央」會全數補助。為什麼現在又變了？內政部長又說這個要改成地方要負責籌措部分的支出？請問次長。"],["吳次長堂安：謝謝委員，簡單跟委員報告，租金補貼當然是賴總統的政策，目前實際上的租補案件大概是61萬戶，所以目標70萬戶不變。至於剛剛委員所垂詢的部分，就是有關租金的負擔支出，這個在最早的版本裡面其實地方本來就是也要負擔的。"],["吳委員宗憲：不是，最早的版本我不知道，我只知道後來總統講的叫做中央全數給予補助，我只知道你們提出來的叫做中央擴大租金補貼專案計畫，你看一下PPT上面的好不好？"],["吳次長堂安：這個是統籌由中央負責撥款，其實還是……"],["吳委員宗憲：所以中央統籌的意思就是中央開支票、地方付錢？中央請客、地方買單？"],["吳次長堂安：沒有，我記得當時在112、113年的時候就已經有這個規範，就是說其實地方還是要負擔一定的部分。"],["吳委員宗憲：不是，那這樣子等於又在騙人，又在大內宣了，大內宣說中央負責全額，然後實際要做的時候又說叫地方付。那我要請教一下，為什麼中央不能付？還是一開始中央的心態就是我只是開這個支票出來，地方要一起付？請問一下次長是哪一個？次長，您是常次，常次一定很了解，政次我就不想多問了，那請問一下常次，到底這個是怎麼回事？講一講又變地方要付錢。"],["吳次長堂安：謝謝委員的指教，有關預算的部分，其實我們每年在編公務預算或相關預算的時候，或者是我們訂定前瞻預算，這一些數額我們都會放在報給行政院的內容，這次的部分……"],["吳委員宗憲：不是啊！你是問A答B，你講這個東西就是編列預算的正常作法嘛！我現在請教的問題是，中央以及我剛剛秀給你看的PPT講得很清楚，是中央付錢，現在要做的時候變成票是中央開的、請客邀約的是中央，付錢的是地方，我現在的議題是這個，你不能問A答B啦！您是常次，不是政次，不要學政次啦！請問一下為什麼變成是地方要付錢？甚至臺北好像要到40%嘛？這還蠻驚人的！"],["吳次長堂安：委員，這個應該跟今年的預算有被刪減也有關啦！"],["吳委員宗憲：又來了，你們又開始，我跟你講，內政部現在是造謠部啦！內政部長我都已經告發了，造謠，他去搞他的臺灣國嘛！他就最愛搞臺灣國，最愛搞什麼臺灣國的主人，他就把時間都花在搞這些，還有在那邊騙人啦！什麼租金補貼被刪光！這我已經依法告發了。但我覺得這個都很糟糕，什麼時候中央的部會變成是造謠的大本營啦？我在這邊再說一次，說到都爛掉了，今年的總預算是史上最高，比去年還多729億，非法定義務支出是1.3兆，所謂被刪的636億，那個只占2%啦！然後在那邊跟全國說調整不了，那不是比陳水扁跟張俊雄時代更不如嗎？張俊雄時代的預算數更低，而且被刪的更高，好像六百五十幾億還是多少，人家政府運作的順順利利的，也平平安安的，結果今天到我們，廁所衛生紙也買不起，也沒有水。","再來，我覺得很恐怖的就是這個政府，我在這邊跟各位報告、跟全國人民報告，很恐怖的是這個政府，一般性補助款對的是縣市裡面的一些教育的支出、弱勢團體的支出，你也敢砍；租金補貼，租屋族很辛苦，你也敢砍，你也叫地方付，地方現在付不出來，然後什麼都說是預算被刪，為了罷免可以這麼做，我也服了你們了。你要在這邊講預算被刪，我才跟你提這個，不然我完全不想再提財劃法跟總預算的問題，因為都講到爛掉了，再講也沒有用。你一下砍地方補助款，一下砍租屋補貼，每一刀都是砍向弱勢團體，我跟你講，您是事務官出身，我也是事務官出身的，我們都是為這個國家、為人民在思考，結果我今天看到政府是這麼做，您是事務官出身，但是您是次長，你在這邊可能也不方便講一些話，但是大家心裡應該都有感。政府怎麼會運作到今天這樣？每一刀都是砍向弱勢團體，而且去年還超收五千多億，我真的覺得這樣沒有辦法做事情。","我請教一下移民署，署長，我們辦公室昨天有跟移民第二代的團體座談，他們一直有提到一個點，就是他們覺得在跨部門的事項上面你們的聯繫是很不足的，他們一直有這些抱怨，他們也擔心日後成立新住民發展署會有一樣的問題，請問署長，在橫向聯繫上面是不是有出問題？"],["林署長宏恩：報告委員，在新住民相關事務的部分，行政院有成立一個協調會報，與新住民相關跨部會的一些業務，都是由行政院來召開新住民事務協調會報，就相關資源的整合部分由新住民事務協調會報來協助處理。"],["吳委員宗憲：所以你認為不會有問題？"],["林署長宏恩：目前為止是不會有太大的問題。"],["吳委員宗憲：好吧，我跟你講，政府機關永遠說沒問題，但是人民，這些新住民二代，他們一直覺得有問題，所以我要跟署長說明有這個狀況，他們也擔心新住民發展署成立之後也會發生一樣的問題，所以我在這跟您說明一下。"],["林署長宏恩：報告委員，是不是容我補充說明一下？因為我們新住民事務協調會報裡面有29位委員，29位委員中有12位是新住民及其子女作為代表，其他的部分就是由學者專家跟所謂的機關代表，其實新住民及其子女代表的比例在裡面是比較高的，所以照理講，在正常的狀況之下，新住民及其子女應該有足夠的發聲聲量。"],["吳委員宗憲：不是，你現在講的是官方的說法，但是我現在回應給你的是人民的感受。這些團體他們是新住民的二代，這個團體來跟我們辦公室開會，我們都有會議紀錄，我們的結論，他們就是做這樣子的反映，所以我要反映給署長，也就是說，我不可能一直說我做得多好、我做得多棒，不可能會有問題，但是使用者覺得有問題，消費者的回饋就是覺得有問題，那我就沒辦法說我自己很好。你也是，公務機關如果覺得自己做得非常好，可是人民的感受不是如此。"],["林署長宏恩：有關落差的部分，我們會來加強溝通。"],["吳委員宗憲：請教一下人事長，接下來新住民發展署如果需要有一些人力的增列，人事行政總處會同意增編嗎？"],["蘇人事長俊榮：本來成立機關以後該增的員額，我們第一個階段會從移民署，它有一個移民事務組，那些人把工作帶過來，剩下不夠的，我們會去幫忙。"],["吳委員宗憲：所以你們沒有問題嘛！我為什麼問這個問題？就是因為劉世芳部長一直說會與行政院人事行政總處跟主計總處研擬這個組織如何調整，至少我現在聽到人總這邊沒有問題，那將來我就不能接受內政部再跟我說人總這邊卡住或什麼，謝謝人事長告訴我這個沒問題。","最後20秒，因為剛剛黃國昌委員有提到籌備處的問題，次長，我們看到劉世芳部長在4月的時候口頭有說籌備小組已經開16次了，既然開了16次，那你們應該有完整的小組名單，對不對？"],["吳次長堂安：有。"],["吳委員宗憲：應該有嘛！應該不至於造成剛剛你說你也不知道這個小組有多少人，所以要請問次長，您是那個小組的召集人嘛？"],["吳次長堂安：委員，我是召集人，我主持過7次，移民署本身也召開過12次，其實小組成員都是我們跟移民署，甚至包括我們內政部人事處等相關單位都有派員。"],["吳委員宗憲：因為我們還是需要知道一些進度，如果你們都沒有一個完整的資料給我們，當然我們也會疑惑，所以請你們進度一定要出來，好不好？"],["吳次長堂安：沒問題。"],["吳委員宗憲：那就再麻煩人事長，您剛剛也說這個沒有問題，因為有時候我會遇到一些主管又用人事行政總處在卡這個人力來回應，那就謝謝人事長、謝謝次長、謝謝署長。"],["主席：謝謝吳宗憲召委，請吳宗憲召委繼續主持會議。"],["主席（吳委員宗憲）：謝謝，下一位請張智倫委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":114,"meet_id":"聯席會議-11-3-36,15-3","speakers":["吳宗憲","麥玉珍","羅美玲","張智倫","黃國昌","蘇巧慧","王義川","黃捷","張宏陸","王美惠","陳培瑜","沈發惠","吳思瑤","李柏毅","羅智強","許宇甄","翁曉玲","王鴻薇","莊瑞雄","葉元之","徐欣瑩","牛煦庭","吳琪銘"],"page_start":57,"meetingDate":["2025-06-19"],"gazette_id":"1146101","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1146101_00003"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期司法及法制、內政委員會第3次聯席會議紀錄","content":"一、併案審查(一)委員鄭天財 Sra Kacaw 等21人、(二)台灣民眾黨黨團、(三)委員張智倫等17\n人、(四)委員葉元之等21人及(五)委員羅美玲等18人分別擬具「內政部組織法第五條條文修正草\n案」案；二、併案審查(一)台灣民眾黨黨團、(二)委員鄭天財 Sra Kacaw 等21人、(三)國民黨黨\n團、(四)委員張智倫等17人、(五)委員葉元之等21人及(六)委員羅美玲等18人分別擬具「內政部\n新住民發展署組織法草案」案","agenda_id":"1146101_00002"}}}