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\"樣\"}, {\"word\": \"子\", \"start\": 89.667, \"end\": 89.727, \"score\": 0.665}, {\"word\": \"討\"}, {\"word\": \"論\"}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 89.727, \"end\": 89.748, \"score\": 0.0}]}, {\"start\": 91.129, \"end\": 120.567, \"text\": \"好 我要先講這個前提是在於說大家都想照顧新加入台灣的夥伴這個沒有問題可是當時的法規制度到底是要用什麼樣的法治條例來讓這一部法律文字能夠對新朋友新住民更多的保障當時就有兩種派別嘛第一個是基本法也就是在凌駕在所有其他法律之上的一個通則一個像憲法一樣的精神所有的法律在基本法之下都要臣服嘛這是基本法\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 91.129, \"end\": 91.489, \"score\": 0.634}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 91.489, \"end\": 91.589, \"score\": 0.851}, {\"word\": \"要\", \"start\": 91.589, \"end\": 91.709, \"score\": 0.681}, {\"word\": \"先\", \"start\": 91.709, \"end\": 92.37, \"score\": 0.669}, {\"word\": \"講\"}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"前\", \"start\": 92.37, \"end\": 92.59, \"score\": 0.662}, {\"word\": \"提\", \"start\": 92.59, \"end\": 92.75, \"score\": 0.631}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 92.75, \"end\": 92.87, \"score\": 0.825}, {\"word\": 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\"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:08,786 --> 00:00:10,377\n好謝謝主席我們請吳次長麻煩次長\n\n2\n00:00:15,674 --> 00:00:41,337\n市長好市長我們今天是要來討論這個新住民發展署的組織法草案那這個我必須說有一點遺憾因為當時我們在討論這個新住民基本法的時候其實大家都知道新住民已經現在是台灣不可分割不可或缺的組成我們都非常非常的期待大家是一起為這塊土地努力沒有錯\n\n3\n00:00:41,937 --> 00:01:09,425\n所以政府也應該要照顧這些新來的夥伴能夠盡快的加入這個大家庭並且權益要能夠受到保障這就是我們對所謂新住民的態度而且第一代來這裡的時候他叫新他的第二代是新住民的子女但是到第三代第四代呢其實我們在場甚至包括在場所有的人都來自不同的地方上述到幾代沒有人是相同的但今天我們全部都是台灣人\n\n4\n00:01:10,285 --> 00:01:29,748\n所以新住民之子的在下一代在下一代是不是還是新住民當時都有很清楚的在討論過所以這部這個基本法也好或者是法規也好當時就說新住民定義是新住民本身以及新住民之子放在新住民基本法是這樣子討論來的\n\n5\n00:01:31,129 --> 00:02:00,567\n好我要先講這個前提是在於說大家都想照顧新加入台灣的夥伴這個沒有問題可是當時的法規制度到底是要用什麼樣的法治條例來讓這一部法律文字能夠對新朋友新住民更多的保障當時就有兩種派別嘛第一個是基本法也就是在凌駕在所有其他法律之上的一個通則一個像憲法一樣的精神所有的法律在基本法之下都要臣服嘛這是基本法\n\n6\n00:02:01,047 --> 00:02:18,999\n好但是但是因為新住民的相關事務實在涉及太多面向了你看看今天來的部會有多少單位還有所有未來我們要討論的問題從教育社福這個甚至是勞動太多了啦勞動不只啦實在太多等一下請你講\n\n7\n00:02:20,060 --> 00:02:37,896\n所以當時就想說那會不會有彼此漢格的地方所以本基於基於剛剛要說的保護保障新加入的朋友的這一群人我們是不是用一個作用法的形態所以當時我們的主張是新住民權益保障法\n\n8\n00:02:39,037 --> 00:02:53,092\n讓這個法跟其他法有一個空間可以互相流通這是這樣的狀況可是當時本黨的委員我們這邊的委員因為人數比較少所以後來就通過了基本法基本法也很好就通過了通過了以後現在要開始落實了我們現在在討論相關的法規\n\n9\n00:02:59,739 --> 00:03:24,232\n市長不好意思市長我想請問你一下你現在開了七次的會議你剛剛說七次嘛是七次的會議理論上是就剛剛所有相關方方面面的問題你要去盤整盤點以至於解決甚至是為了解決而設計再寫出新的相關的法條出來這樣我們今天才能夠有所謂的法條來討論嘛\n\n10\n00:03:25,393 --> 00:03:51,987\n那顯然你因為說就是因為這麼複雜啊所以院版的還沒有能夠今天呈現在委員會上面但反過來有這麼多的委員已經有版本了來次長我現在就要問你第一你在這七次會議當中有遇到哪一些問題這些問題是否如同當時我們講的確實是有漢格之處以至於困難難解到底有還是沒有是我們多慮了呢還是實務上真的有這樣發生\n\n11\n00:03:53,268 --> 00:04:12,741\n第二如果確實有這個漢格的發生的話那你現在要怎麼解今天所有的委員版因為都不是院版嘛委員版當中是不是就有因為我們擔憂的這種狀況所以如果他就現在先寫成委員版的條文是不是通過以後反而會造成更大的麻煩市長請回答\n\n12\n00:04:15,843 --> 00:04:42,575\n好謝謝委員那我想我主持的七次的整個籌備小組的部分其實會先都是先琢磨在新住民基本法的內容那它的內容的部分所以我們在檢視的時候我們到底是說到底要幾個科要承辦什麼業務所以我們就依照基本法裡面的劃分裡面去研究那去研究了之後其實才發現說其實包括有教育的部分有文化的部分有勞動的部分就業的部分甚至還有有關\n\n13\n00:04:44,136 --> 00:05:01,581\n媒體宣傳應該不是才發現啦是更確認啦就是因為這樣所以我們在組別的時候我們就會先找各相關部會就是原本有一些是在各部會工作的部分那我們就要跟他協調是把這業務部分是連同人移播過來或者是業務移播過來人們移過來所以我們一直在開這個會\n\n14\n00:05:02,281 --> 00:05:23,866\n因為事實上比如說勞動好了我新住民在一個地方上班會牽涉到的勞動到底是以人為界限所有的我在這裡上班所以我所有未來碰到的東西以後都變成是移民署這邊來處理還是是勞動部那我和一個台灣現在的本地的人這樣子的兩個人的狀況到底這件事情要怎麼處理\n\n15\n00:05:25,306 --> 00:05:46,049\n這個會不會有這樣的問題?就是會有,所以我們包括像教育部的部分,包括教育事業、教育就業那這些的部分其實例如說通譯等等的那這個在基本法裡面有規範的部分,我們都要找教育單位來做確定還有我想國人也相當關心的,因為我們的新住民主城是來自於新住民他們來自多個不同的國家,包括中國\n\n16\n00:05:47,230 --> 00:06:01,828\n那所以到底是先適用兩岸人民關係條例還是先適用這個新住民的這個部分那您怎麼回答是謝謝委員長那我想在新住民基本法第二條裡面他當時是把婚姻移民之外還有包括專業技術移民也要保障新住民子女\n\n17\n00:06:02,208 --> 00:06:18,547\n其實我們目前新住民定義的部分其實在婚姻移民的部分這邊就佔的蠻多的啦是就佔的蠻多那其實這個佔的蠻多之外那有些是還要分兩種他的身分別是什麼第二個他有沒有取得國人身分那如果取得國人身分其實就是我們的國民啦我們的認為是這樣子\n\n18\n00:06:19,668 --> 00:06:43,275\n那我們經統計這樣子的話目前新住民基本法適用就超過50萬那他未來還會繼續受陸委會的管轄嗎依然要人民關係條例這個部分就是還要再進一步要進一步進行是嘛所以就是有這麼多問題到底解決到哪裡了還是還沒有到底是解決的前期還是已經快解決完了還是是什麼狀況跟委員報告我想這部分我們都還會跟陸委會還要再確認有關婚配移民的部分\n\n19\n00:06:43,815 --> 00:07:01,472\n我想我今天用全部的時間其實我準備非常多題目因為其實如果要具體下去的話我個人最關心的是包括通譯制度的部分那時候我們在審查基本法的時候甚至有做了附帶決議要求內政部既有的通譯制度要能夠更精進甚至要有專責的這個單位來做統一全國統一各族群統一的這個通譯制度不過呢\n\n20\n00:07:07,338 --> 00:07:30,237\n我覺得與其在這裡進入到細節的討論不如是我們大家一起尤其是今天是內政和司法的聯繫我們再一起回憶一次當時我們要做這部法律的時候其實是為了保障新加入台灣的朋友們新住民的權益讓他們可以更好的生活在這塊土地上更快的融入這個社會這是我們的本意\n\n21\n00:07:32,299 --> 00:07:38,206\n但如果我們因為這部法律以及如果我們要倉促上路後面的相關配套倉促上路的話那麼我認為有可能反而會得不償失因為牽涉的方面可能太\n\n22\n00:07:47,196 --> 00:08:08,202\n太多了我反而會覺得應該是內政部是不是應該不管是在內政委員會也好因為這是我們的本業嘛你們應該定期提出專報跟我們報告說現在進度到哪裡了我們贊不贊成這樣的方向大家都贊成了之後有共識之後再劃約為文字一次到位這樣大家才能得到最好的保障\n\n23\n00:08:08,422 --> 00:08:22,584\n而不是今天就已經就現在的委員的各版本在沒有院版的狀況下沒有共識甚至是沒有會議已經有定論的狀況下就開始處理這樣的法案這是我個人的意見啦好謝謝謝謝那我們下一位請\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n8786\t10377\t好 謝謝主席 我們請吳次長麻煩次長\n15674\t41337\t市長好 市長我們今天是要來討論這個新住民發展署的組織法草案那這個我必須說有一點遺憾因為當時我們在討論這個新住民基本法的時候其實大家都知道新住民已經現在是台灣不可分割不可或缺的組成我們都非常非常的期待大家是一起為這塊土地努力 沒有錯\n41937\t69425\t所以政府也應該要照顧這些新來的夥伴能夠盡快的加入這個大家庭並且權益要能夠受到保障這就是我們對所謂新住民的態度而且第一代來這裡的時候他叫新他的第二代是新住民的子女但是到第三代第四代呢其實我們在場甚至包括在場所有的人都來自不同的地方上述到幾代沒有人是相同的但今天我們全部都是台灣人\n70285\t89748\t所以新住民之子的在下一代在下一代是不是還是新住民當時都有很清楚的在討論過所以這部這個基本法也好或者是法規也好當時就說新住民定義是新住民本身以及新住民之子放在新住民基本法是這樣子討論來的\n91129\t120567\t好 我要先講這個前提是在於說大家都想照顧新加入台灣的夥伴這個沒有問題可是當時的法規制度到底是要用什麼樣的法治條例來讓這一部法律文字能夠對新朋友新住民更多的保障當時就有兩種派別嘛第一個是基本法也就是在凌駕在所有其他法律之上的一個通則一個像憲法一樣的精神所有的法律在基本法之下都要臣服嘛這是基本法\n121047\t138999\t好 但是 但是因為新住民的相關事務實在涉及太多面向了你看看今天來的部會有多少單位還有所有未來我們要討論的問題從教育 社福 這個甚至是勞動太多了啦 勞動不只啦 實在太多 等一下請你講\n140060\t157896\t所以當時就想說 那會不會有彼此漢格的地方所以本基於 基於剛剛要說的保護 保障新加入的朋友的這一群人我們是不是用一個作用法的形態所以當時我們的主張是 新住民權益保障法\n159037\t173092\t讓這個法跟其他法有一個空間可以互相流通這是這樣的狀況可是當時本黨的委員我們這邊的委員因為人數比較少所以後來就通過了基本法基本法也很好就通過了通過了以後現在要開始落實了我們現在在討論相關的法規\n179739\t204232\t市長不好意思市長我想請問你一下你現在開了七次的會議你剛剛說七次嘛是七次的會議理論上是就剛剛所有相關方方面面的問題你要去盤整盤點以至於解決甚至是為了解決而設計再寫出新的相關的法條出來這樣我們今天才能夠有所謂的法條來討論嘛\n205393\t231987\t那顯然你因為說就是因為這麼複雜啊所以院版的還沒有能夠今天呈現在委員會上面但反過來有這麼多的委員已經有版本了來 次長我現在就要問你第一 你在這七次會議當中有遇到哪一些問題這些問題是否如同當時我們講的確實是有漢格之處以至於困難難解到底有還是沒有是我們多慮了呢還是實務上真的有這樣發生\n233268\t252741\t第二如果確實有這個漢格的發生的話那你現在要怎麼解今天所有的委員版因為都不是院版嘛委員版當中是不是就有因為我們擔憂的這種狀況所以如果他就現在先寫成委員版的條文是不是通過以後反而會造成更大的麻煩市長請回答\n255843\t282575\t好謝謝委員那我想我主持的七次的整個籌備小組的部分其實會先都是先琢磨在新住民基本法的內容那它的內容的部分所以我們在檢視的時候我們到底是說到底要幾個科要承辦什麼業務所以我們就依照基本法裡面的劃分裡面去研究那去研究了之後其實才發現說其實包括有教育的部分有文化的部分有勞動的部分就業的部分甚至還有有關\n284136\t301581\t媒體宣傳應該不是才發現啦是更確認啦就是因為這樣所以我們在組別的時候我們就會先找各相關部會就是原本有一些是在各部會工作的部分那我們就要跟他協調是把這業務部分是連同人移播過來或者是業務移播過來人們移過來所以我們一直在開這個會\n302281\t323866\t因為事實上比如說勞動好了我新住民在一個地方上班會牽涉到的勞動到底是以人為界限所有的我在這裡上班所以我所有未來碰到的東西以後都變成是移民署這邊來處理還是是勞動部那我和一個台灣現在的本地的人這樣子的兩個人的狀況到底這件事情要怎麼處理\n325306\t346049\t這個會不會有這樣的問題?就是會有,所以我們包括像教育部的部分,包括教育事業、教育就業那這些的部分其實例如說通譯等等的那這個在基本法裡面有規範的部分,我們都要找教育單位來做確定還有我想國人也相當關心的,因為我們的新住民主城是來自於新住民他們來自多個不同的國家,包括中國\n347230\t361828\t那所以到底是先適用兩岸人民關係條例還是先適用這個新住民的這個部分那您怎麼回答是 謝謝委員長那我想在新住民基本法第二條裡面他當時是把婚姻移民之外還有包括專業技術移民也要保障新住民子女\n362208\t378547\t其實我們目前新住民定義的部分其實在婚姻移民的部分這邊就佔的蠻多的啦是就佔的蠻多那其實這個佔的蠻多之外那有些是還要分兩種他的身分別是什麼第二個他有沒有取得國人身分那如果取得國人身分其實就是我們的國民啦我們的認為是這樣子\n379668\t403275\t那我們經統計這樣子的話 目前新住民基本法適用就超過50萬那他未來還會繼續受陸委會的管轄嗎 依然要人民關係條例這個部分就是還要再進一步要進一步進行是嘛 所以就是有這麼多問題 到底解決到哪裡了 還是還沒有到底是解決的前期 還是已經快解決完了 還是是什麼狀況跟委員報告 我想這部分我們都還會跟陸委會還要再確認有關婚配移民的部分\n403815\t421472\t我想我今天用全部的時間 其實我準備非常多題目因為其實如果要具體下去的話我個人最關心的是包括通譯制度的部分那時候我們在審查基本法的時候甚至有做了附帶決議要求內政部既有的通譯制度要能夠更精進甚至要有專責的這個單位來做統一 全國統一各族群統一的這個通譯制度不過呢\n427338\t450237\t我覺得與其在這裡進入到細節的討論不如是我們大家一起尤其是今天是內政和司法的聯繫我們再一起回憶一次當時我們要做這部法律的時候其實是為了保障新加入台灣的朋友們新住民的權益讓他們可以更好的生活在這塊土地上更快的融入這個社會這是我們的本意\n452299\t458206\t但如果我們因為這部法律以及如果我們要倉促上路後面的相關配套倉促上路的話那麼我認為有可能反而會得不償失因為牽涉的方面可能太\n467196\t488202\t太多了我反而會覺得應該是內政部是不是應該不管是在內政委員會也好因為這是我們的本業嘛你們應該定期提出專報跟我們報告說現在進度到哪裡了我們贊不贊成這樣的方向大家都贊成了之後有共識之後再劃約為文字一次到位這樣大家才能得到最好的保障\n488422\t502584\t而不是今天就已經就現在的委員的各版本在沒有院版的狀況下沒有共識甚至是沒有會議已經有定論的狀況下就開始處理這樣的法案這是我個人的意見啦好 謝謝謝謝那我們下一位請\n","txt":"好 謝謝主席 我們請吳次長麻煩次長\n市長好 市長我們今天是要來討論這個新住民發展署的組織法草案那這個我必須說有一點遺憾因為當時我們在討論這個新住民基本法的時候其實大家都知道新住民已經現在是台灣不可分割不可或缺的組成我們都非常非常的期待大家是一起為這塊土地努力 沒有錯\n所以政府也應該要照顧這些新來的夥伴能夠盡快的加入這個大家庭並且權益要能夠受到保障這就是我們對所謂新住民的態度而且第一代來這裡的時候他叫新他的第二代是新住民的子女但是到第三代第四代呢其實我們在場甚至包括在場所有的人都來自不同的地方上述到幾代沒有人是相同的但今天我們全部都是台灣人\n所以新住民之子的在下一代在下一代是不是還是新住民當時都有很清楚的在討論過所以這部這個基本法也好或者是法規也好當時就說新住民定義是新住民本身以及新住民之子放在新住民基本法是這樣子討論來的\n好 我要先講這個前提是在於說大家都想照顧新加入台灣的夥伴這個沒有問題可是當時的法規制度到底是要用什麼樣的法治條例來讓這一部法律文字能夠對新朋友新住民更多的保障當時就有兩種派別嘛第一個是基本法也就是在凌駕在所有其他法律之上的一個通則一個像憲法一樣的精神所有的法律在基本法之下都要臣服嘛這是基本法\n好 但是 但是因為新住民的相關事務實在涉及太多面向了你看看今天來的部會有多少單位還有所有未來我們要討論的問題從教育 社福 這個甚至是勞動太多了啦 勞動不只啦 實在太多 等一下請你講\n所以當時就想說 那會不會有彼此漢格的地方所以本基於 基於剛剛要說的保護 保障新加入的朋友的這一群人我們是不是用一個作用法的形態所以當時我們的主張是 新住民權益保障法\n讓這個法跟其他法有一個空間可以互相流通這是這樣的狀況可是當時本黨的委員我們這邊的委員因為人數比較少所以後來就通過了基本法基本法也很好就通過了通過了以後現在要開始落實了我們現在在討論相關的法規\n市長不好意思市長我想請問你一下你現在開了七次的會議你剛剛說七次嘛是七次的會議理論上是就剛剛所有相關方方面面的問題你要去盤整盤點以至於解決甚至是為了解決而設計再寫出新的相關的法條出來這樣我們今天才能夠有所謂的法條來討論嘛\n那顯然你因為說就是因為這麼複雜啊所以院版的還沒有能夠今天呈現在委員會上面但反過來有這麼多的委員已經有版本了來 次長我現在就要問你第一 你在這七次會議當中有遇到哪一些問題這些問題是否如同當時我們講的確實是有漢格之處以至於困難難解到底有還是沒有是我們多慮了呢還是實務上真的有這樣發生\n第二如果確實有這個漢格的發生的話那你現在要怎麼解今天所有的委員版因為都不是院版嘛委員版當中是不是就有因為我們擔憂的這種狀況所以如果他就現在先寫成委員版的條文是不是通過以後反而會造成更大的麻煩市長請回答\n好謝謝委員那我想我主持的七次的整個籌備小組的部分其實會先都是先琢磨在新住民基本法的內容那它的內容的部分所以我們在檢視的時候我們到底是說到底要幾個科要承辦什麼業務所以我們就依照基本法裡面的劃分裡面去研究那去研究了之後其實才發現說其實包括有教育的部分有文化的部分有勞動的部分就業的部分甚至還有有關\n媒體宣傳應該不是才發現啦是更確認啦就是因為這樣所以我們在組別的時候我們就會先找各相關部會就是原本有一些是在各部會工作的部分那我們就要跟他協調是把這業務部分是連同人移播過來或者是業務移播過來人們移過來所以我們一直在開這個會\n因為事實上比如說勞動好了我新住民在一個地方上班會牽涉到的勞動到底是以人為界限所有的我在這裡上班所以我所有未來碰到的東西以後都變成是移民署這邊來處理還是是勞動部那我和一個台灣現在的本地的人這樣子的兩個人的狀況到底這件事情要怎麼處理\n這個會不會有這樣的問題?就是會有,所以我們包括像教育部的部分,包括教育事業、教育就業那這些的部分其實例如說通譯等等的那這個在基本法裡面有規範的部分,我們都要找教育單位來做確定還有我想國人也相當關心的,因為我們的新住民主城是來自於新住民他們來自多個不同的國家,包括中國\n那所以到底是先適用兩岸人民關係條例還是先適用這個新住民的這個部分那您怎麼回答是 謝謝委員長那我想在新住民基本法第二條裡面他當時是把婚姻移民之外還有包括專業技術移民也要保障新住民子女\n其實我們目前新住民定義的部分其實在婚姻移民的部分這邊就佔的蠻多的啦是就佔的蠻多那其實這個佔的蠻多之外那有些是還要分兩種他的身分別是什麼第二個他有沒有取得國人身分那如果取得國人身分其實就是我們的國民啦我們的認為是這樣子\n那我們經統計這樣子的話 目前新住民基本法適用就超過50萬那他未來還會繼續受陸委會的管轄嗎 依然要人民關係條例這個部分就是還要再進一步要進一步進行是嘛 所以就是有這麼多問題 到底解決到哪裡了 還是還沒有到底是解決的前期 還是已經快解決完了 還是是什麼狀況跟委員報告 我想這部分我們都還會跟陸委會還要再確認有關婚配移民的部分\n我想我今天用全部的時間 其實我準備非常多題目因為其實如果要具體下去的話我個人最關心的是包括通譯制度的部分那時候我們在審查基本法的時候甚至有做了附帶決議要求內政部既有的通譯制度要能夠更精進甚至要有專責的這個單位來做統一 全國統一各族群統一的這個通譯制度不過呢\n我覺得與其在這裡進入到細節的討論不如是我們大家一起尤其是今天是內政和司法的聯繫我們再一起回憶一次當時我們要做這部法律的時候其實是為了保障新加入台灣的朋友們新住民的權益讓他們可以更好的生活在這塊土地上更快的融入這個社會這是我們的本意\n但如果我們因為這部法律以及如果我們要倉促上路後面的相關配套倉促上路的話那麼我認為有可能反而會得不償失因為牽涉的方面可能太\n太多了我反而會覺得應該是內政部是不是應該不管是在內政委員會也好因為這是我們的本業嘛你們應該定期提出專報跟我們報告說現在進度到哪裡了我們贊不贊成這樣的方向大家都贊成了之後有共識之後再劃約為文字一次到位這樣大家才能得到最好的保障\n而不是今天就已經就現在的委員的各版本在沒有院版的狀況下沒有共識甚至是沒有會議已經有定論的狀況下就開始處理這樣的法案這是我個人的意見啦好 謝謝謝謝那我們下一位請\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:08.786 --> 00:10.377\n好謝謝主席我們請吳次長麻煩次長\n\n00:15.674 --> 00:41.337\n市長好市長我們今天是要來討論這個新住民發展署的組織法草案那這個我必須說有一點遺憾因為當時我們在討論這個新住民基本法的時候其實大家都知道新住民已經現在是台灣不可分割不可或缺的組成我們都非常非常的期待大家是一起為這塊土地努力沒有錯\n\n00:41.937 --> 01:09.425\n所以政府也應該要照顧這些新來的夥伴能夠盡快的加入這個大家庭並且權益要能夠受到保障這就是我們對所謂新住民的態度而且第一代來這裡的時候他叫新他的第二代是新住民的子女但是到第三代第四代呢其實我們在場甚至包括在場所有的人都來自不同的地方上述到幾代沒有人是相同的但今天我們全部都是台灣人\n\n01:10.285 --> 01:29.748\n所以新住民之子的在下一代在下一代是不是還是新住民當時都有很清楚的在討論過所以這部這個基本法也好或者是法規也好當時就說新住民定義是新住民本身以及新住民之子放在新住民基本法是這樣子討論來的\n\n01:31.129 --> 02:00.567\n好我要先講這個前提是在於說大家都想照顧新加入台灣的夥伴這個沒有問題可是當時的法規制度到底是要用什麼樣的法治條例來讓這一部法律文字能夠對新朋友新住民更多的保障當時就有兩種派別嘛第一個是基本法也就是在凌駕在所有其他法律之上的一個通則一個像憲法一樣的精神所有的法律在基本法之下都要臣服嘛這是基本法\n\n02:01.047 --> 02:18.999\n好但是但是因為新住民的相關事務實在涉及太多面向了你看看今天來的部會有多少單位還有所有未來我們要討論的問題從教育社福這個甚至是勞動太多了啦勞動不只啦實在太多等一下請你講\n\n02:20.060 --> 02:37.896\n所以當時就想說那會不會有彼此漢格的地方所以本基於基於剛剛要說的保護保障新加入的朋友的這一群人我們是不是用一個作用法的形態所以當時我們的主張是新住民權益保障法\n\n02:39.037 --> 02:53.092\n讓這個法跟其他法有一個空間可以互相流通這是這樣的狀況可是當時本黨的委員我們這邊的委員因為人數比較少所以後來就通過了基本法基本法也很好就通過了通過了以後現在要開始落實了我們現在在討論相關的法規\n\n02:59.739 --> 03:24.232\n市長不好意思市長我想請問你一下你現在開了七次的會議你剛剛說七次嘛是七次的會議理論上是就剛剛所有相關方方面面的問題你要去盤整盤點以至於解決甚至是為了解決而設計再寫出新的相關的法條出來這樣我們今天才能夠有所謂的法條來討論嘛\n\n03:25.393 --> 03:51.987\n那顯然你因為說就是因為這麼複雜啊所以院版的還沒有能夠今天呈現在委員會上面但反過來有這麼多的委員已經有版本了來次長我現在就要問你第一你在這七次會議當中有遇到哪一些問題這些問題是否如同當時我們講的確實是有漢格之處以至於困難難解到底有還是沒有是我們多慮了呢還是實務上真的有這樣發生\n\n03:53.268 --> 04:12.741\n第二如果確實有這個漢格的發生的話那你現在要怎麼解今天所有的委員版因為都不是院版嘛委員版當中是不是就有因為我們擔憂的這種狀況所以如果他就現在先寫成委員版的條文是不是通過以後反而會造成更大的麻煩市長請回答\n\n04:15.843 --> 04:42.575\n好謝謝委員那我想我主持的七次的整個籌備小組的部分其實會先都是先琢磨在新住民基本法的內容那它的內容的部分所以我們在檢視的時候我們到底是說到底要幾個科要承辦什麼業務所以我們就依照基本法裡面的劃分裡面去研究那去研究了之後其實才發現說其實包括有教育的部分有文化的部分有勞動的部分就業的部分甚至還有有關\n\n04:44.136 --> 05:01.581\n媒體宣傳應該不是才發現啦是更確認啦就是因為這樣所以我們在組別的時候我們就會先找各相關部會就是原本有一些是在各部會工作的部分那我們就要跟他協調是把這業務部分是連同人移播過來或者是業務移播過來人們移過來所以我們一直在開這個會\n\n05:02.281 --> 05:23.866\n因為事實上比如說勞動好了我新住民在一個地方上班會牽涉到的勞動到底是以人為界限所有的我在這裡上班所以我所有未來碰到的東西以後都變成是移民署這邊來處理還是是勞動部那我和一個台灣現在的本地的人這樣子的兩個人的狀況到底這件事情要怎麼處理\n\n05:25.306 --> 05:46.049\n這個會不會有這樣的問題?就是會有,所以我們包括像教育部的部分,包括教育事業、教育就業那這些的部分其實例如說通譯等等的那這個在基本法裡面有規範的部分,我們都要找教育單位來做確定還有我想國人也相當關心的,因為我們的新住民主城是來自於新住民他們來自多個不同的國家,包括中國\n\n05:47.230 --> 06:01.828\n那所以到底是先適用兩岸人民關係條例還是先適用這個新住民的這個部分那您怎麼回答是謝謝委員長那我想在新住民基本法第二條裡面他當時是把婚姻移民之外還有包括專業技術移民也要保障新住民子女\n\n06:02.208 --> 06:18.547\n其實我們目前新住民定義的部分其實在婚姻移民的部分這邊就佔的蠻多的啦是就佔的蠻多那其實這個佔的蠻多之外那有些是還要分兩種他的身分別是什麼第二個他有沒有取得國人身分那如果取得國人身分其實就是我們的國民啦我們的認為是這樣子\n\n06:19.668 --> 06:43.275\n那我們經統計這樣子的話目前新住民基本法適用就超過50萬那他未來還會繼續受陸委會的管轄嗎依然要人民關係條例這個部分就是還要再進一步要進一步進行是嘛所以就是有這麼多問題到底解決到哪裡了還是還沒有到底是解決的前期還是已經快解決完了還是是什麼狀況跟委員報告我想這部分我們都還會跟陸委會還要再確認有關婚配移民的部分\n\n06:43.815 --> 07:01.472\n我想我今天用全部的時間其實我準備非常多題目因為其實如果要具體下去的話我個人最關心的是包括通譯制度的部分那時候我們在審查基本法的時候甚至有做了附帶決議要求內政部既有的通譯制度要能夠更精進甚至要有專責的這個單位來做統一全國統一各族群統一的這個通譯制度不過呢\n\n07:07.338 --> 07:30.237\n我覺得與其在這裡進入到細節的討論不如是我們大家一起尤其是今天是內政和司法的聯繫我們再一起回憶一次當時我們要做這部法律的時候其實是為了保障新加入台灣的朋友們新住民的權益讓他們可以更好的生活在這塊土地上更快的融入這個社會這是我們的本意\n\n07:32.299 --> 07:38.206\n但如果我們因為這部法律以及如果我們要倉促上路後面的相關配套倉促上路的話那麼我認為有可能反而會得不償失因為牽涉的方面可能太\n\n07:47.196 --> 08:08.202\n太多了我反而會覺得應該是內政部是不是應該不管是在內政委員會也好因為這是我們的本業嘛你們應該定期提出專報跟我們報告說現在進度到哪裡了我們贊不贊成這樣的方向大家都贊成了之後有共識之後再劃約為文字一次到位這樣大家才能得到最好的保障\n\n08:08.422 --> 08:22.584\n而不是今天就已經就現在的委員的各版本在沒有院版的狀況下沒有共識甚至是沒有會議已經有定論的狀況下就開始處理這樣的法案這是我個人的意見啦好謝謝謝謝那我們下一位請\n\n","segments":[{"start":8.786,"end":10.377,"text":"好 謝謝主席 我們請吳次長麻煩次長"},{"start":15.674,"end":41.337,"text":"市長好 市長我們今天是要來討論這個新住民發展署的組織法草案那這個我必須說有一點遺憾因為當時我們在討論這個新住民基本法的時候其實大家都知道新住民已經現在是台灣不可分割不可或缺的組成我們都非常非常的期待大家是一起為這塊土地努力 沒有錯"},{"start":41.937,"end":69.425,"text":"所以政府也應該要照顧這些新來的夥伴能夠盡快的加入這個大家庭並且權益要能夠受到保障這就是我們對所謂新住民的態度而且第一代來這裡的時候他叫新他的第二代是新住民的子女但是到第三代第四代呢其實我們在場甚至包括在場所有的人都來自不同的地方上述到幾代沒有人是相同的但今天我們全部都是台灣人"},{"start":70.285,"end":89.748,"text":"所以新住民之子的在下一代在下一代是不是還是新住民當時都有很清楚的在討論過所以這部這個基本法也好或者是法規也好當時就說新住民定義是新住民本身以及新住民之子放在新住民基本法是這樣子討論來的"},{"start":91.129,"end":120.567,"text":"好 我要先講這個前提是在於說大家都想照顧新加入台灣的夥伴這個沒有問題可是當時的法規制度到底是要用什麼樣的法治條例來讓這一部法律文字能夠對新朋友新住民更多的保障當時就有兩種派別嘛第一個是基本法也就是在凌駕在所有其他法律之上的一個通則一個像憲法一樣的精神所有的法律在基本法之下都要臣服嘛這是基本法"},{"start":121.047,"end":138.999,"text":"好 但是 但是因為新住民的相關事務實在涉及太多面向了你看看今天來的部會有多少單位還有所有未來我們要討論的問題從教育 社福 這個甚至是勞動太多了啦 勞動不只啦 實在太多 等一下請你講"},{"start":140.06,"end":157.896,"text":"所以當時就想說 那會不會有彼此漢格的地方所以本基於 基於剛剛要說的保護 保障新加入的朋友的這一群人我們是不是用一個作用法的形態所以當時我們的主張是 新住民權益保障法"},{"start":159.037,"end":173.092,"text":"讓這個法跟其他法有一個空間可以互相流通這是這樣的狀況可是當時本黨的委員我們這邊的委員因為人數比較少所以後來就通過了基本法基本法也很好就通過了通過了以後現在要開始落實了我們現在在討論相關的法規"},{"start":179.739,"end":204.232,"text":"市長不好意思市長我想請問你一下你現在開了七次的會議你剛剛說七次嘛是七次的會議理論上是就剛剛所有相關方方面面的問題你要去盤整盤點以至於解決甚至是為了解決而設計再寫出新的相關的法條出來這樣我們今天才能夠有所謂的法條來討論嘛"},{"start":205.393,"end":231.987,"text":"那顯然你因為說就是因為這麼複雜啊所以院版的還沒有能夠今天呈現在委員會上面但反過來有這麼多的委員已經有版本了來 次長我現在就要問你第一 你在這七次會議當中有遇到哪一些問題這些問題是否如同當時我們講的確實是有漢格之處以至於困難難解到底有還是沒有是我們多慮了呢還是實務上真的有這樣發生"},{"start":233.268,"end":252.741,"text":"第二如果確實有這個漢格的發生的話那你現在要怎麼解今天所有的委員版因為都不是院版嘛委員版當中是不是就有因為我們擔憂的這種狀況所以如果他就現在先寫成委員版的條文是不是通過以後反而會造成更大的麻煩市長請回答"},{"start":255.843,"end":282.575,"text":"好謝謝委員那我想我主持的七次的整個籌備小組的部分其實會先都是先琢磨在新住民基本法的內容那它的內容的部分所以我們在檢視的時候我們到底是說到底要幾個科要承辦什麼業務所以我們就依照基本法裡面的劃分裡面去研究那去研究了之後其實才發現說其實包括有教育的部分有文化的部分有勞動的部分就業的部分甚至還有有關"},{"start":284.136,"end":301.581,"text":"媒體宣傳應該不是才發現啦是更確認啦就是因為這樣所以我們在組別的時候我們就會先找各相關部會就是原本有一些是在各部會工作的部分那我們就要跟他協調是把這業務部分是連同人移播過來或者是業務移播過來人們移過來所以我們一直在開這個會"},{"start":302.281,"end":323.866,"text":"因為事實上比如說勞動好了我新住民在一個地方上班會牽涉到的勞動到底是以人為界限所有的我在這裡上班所以我所有未來碰到的東西以後都變成是移民署這邊來處理還是是勞動部那我和一個台灣現在的本地的人這樣子的兩個人的狀況到底這件事情要怎麼處理"},{"start":325.306,"end":346.049,"text":"這個會不會有這樣的問題?就是會有,所以我們包括像教育部的部分,包括教育事業、教育就業那這些的部分其實例如說通譯等等的那這個在基本法裡面有規範的部分,我們都要找教育單位來做確定還有我想國人也相當關心的,因為我們的新住民主城是來自於新住民他們來自多個不同的國家,包括中國"},{"start":347.23,"end":361.828,"text":"那所以到底是先適用兩岸人民關係條例還是先適用這個新住民的這個部分那您怎麼回答是 謝謝委員長那我想在新住民基本法第二條裡面他當時是把婚姻移民之外還有包括專業技術移民也要保障新住民子女"},{"start":362.208,"end":378.547,"text":"其實我們目前新住民定義的部分其實在婚姻移民的部分這邊就佔的蠻多的啦是就佔的蠻多那其實這個佔的蠻多之外那有些是還要分兩種他的身分別是什麼第二個他有沒有取得國人身分那如果取得國人身分其實就是我們的國民啦我們的認為是這樣子"},{"start":379.668,"end":403.275,"text":"那我們經統計這樣子的話 目前新住民基本法適用就超過50萬那他未來還會繼續受陸委會的管轄嗎 依然要人民關係條例這個部分就是還要再進一步要進一步進行是嘛 所以就是有這麼多問題 到底解決到哪裡了 還是還沒有到底是解決的前期 還是已經快解決完了 還是是什麼狀況跟委員報告 我想這部分我們都還會跟陸委會還要再確認有關婚配移民的部分"},{"start":403.815,"end":421.472,"text":"我想我今天用全部的時間 其實我準備非常多題目因為其實如果要具體下去的話我個人最關心的是包括通譯制度的部分那時候我們在審查基本法的時候甚至有做了附帶決議要求內政部既有的通譯制度要能夠更精進甚至要有專責的這個單位來做統一 全國統一各族群統一的這個通譯制度不過呢"},{"start":427.338,"end":450.237,"text":"我覺得與其在這裡進入到細節的討論不如是我們大家一起尤其是今天是內政和司法的聯繫我們再一起回憶一次當時我們要做這部法律的時候其實是為了保障新加入台灣的朋友們新住民的權益讓他們可以更好的生活在這塊土地上更快的融入這個社會這是我們的本意"},{"start":452.299,"end":458.206,"text":"但如果我們因為這部法律以及如果我們要倉促上路後面的相關配套倉促上路的話那麼我認為有可能反而會得不償失因為牽涉的方面可能太"},{"start":467.196,"end":488.202,"text":"太多了我反而會覺得應該是內政部是不是應該不管是在內政委員會也好因為這是我們的本業嘛你們應該定期提出專報跟我們報告說現在進度到哪裡了我們贊不贊成這樣的方向大家都贊成了之後有共識之後再劃約為文字一次到位這樣大家才能得到最好的保障"},{"start":488.422,"end":502.584,"text":"而不是今天就已經就現在的委員的各版本在沒有院版的狀況下沒有共識甚至是沒有會議已經有定論的狀況下就開始處理這樣的法案這是我個人的意見啦好 謝謝謝謝那我們下一位請"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":339,"blocks":[["蘇委員巧慧：（9時47分）謝謝主席，我們請吳次長。"],["主席：麻煩次長。"],["吳次長堂安：委員好。"],["蘇委員巧慧：次長好。次長，我們今天要來討論新住民發展署組織法草案，我必須說有一點遺憾，因為當時我們在討論新住民基本法的時候，其實大家都知道，現在新住民已經是臺灣不可分割、不可或缺的組成，我們都非常非常地期待，大家是一起為這塊土地努力。沒有錯，所以政府也應該要照顧這些新來的夥伴，能夠儘快加入這個大家庭，並且權益要能夠受到保障，這就是我們對新住民的態度。而且第一代來這裡的時候，他叫新住民，他的第二代是新住民的子女，但是到第三代、第四代呢？甚至包括在場所有的人都來自不同的地方，上溯到幾代，沒有人是相同的，但今天我們全部都是臺灣人。所以新住民之子的再下一代、再下一代，是不是還是新住民？當時都有很清楚地討論過。所以這部基本法也好，或者是法規也好，當時就說新住民定義是新住民本身以及新住民之子放在新住民基本法，是這樣子討論來的。","我要先講這個前提是在於大家都想照顧新加入臺灣的夥伴，這個沒有問題，可是當時的法規制度，到底是要用什麼樣的法制條例，來讓這一部法律文字能夠對新朋友、新住民有更多的保障？當時就有兩種派別，第一個是基本法，也就是凌駕在所有其他法律之上的一個通則，一個像憲法一樣的精神，所有的法律在基本法之下都要臣服，這是基本法。但是因為新住民的相關事務，實在涉及太多面向了，你看看今天來的部會有多少單位？還有所有未來我們要討論的問題，從教育、社福甚至是……"],["吳次長堂安：勞動。"],["蘇委員巧慧：太多了，勞動，不止，真的太多，等一下請你講。當時就想說會不會有彼此扞格的地方，所以基於剛剛說的保障新加入的朋友、這一群人，我們是不是用一個作用法的型態？所以當時我們的主張是新住民權益保障法，讓這個法跟其他法有一個空間可以互相流通，是這樣的狀況，可是當時本黨的委員、我們這邊的委員因為人數比較少，所以後來就通過了基本法。基本法也很好，就通過了，那通過了以後，現在要開始落實了，我們現在在討論相關的法規，次長，不好意思，我想請問你一下，你現在開了7次的會議，你剛剛說7次嘛！"],["吳次長堂安：是。"],["蘇委員巧慧：7次的會議，理論上是就剛剛所有相關、方方面面的問題，你要去盤整、盤點以至於解決，甚至是為了解決而設計、再寫出新的相關法條出來，這樣我們今天才能夠有所謂的法條來討論嘛！顯然就是因為這麼複雜，所以院版在今天還沒能呈現在委員會上面，但反過來，這麼多的委員已經有版本了！次長，我現在就要問你，第一，你在這7次會議當中有遇到哪些問題？這些問題是否如同當時我們講的確實是有扞格之處，以致於困難難解，到底有還是沒有？是我們多慮了？還是實務上真的有發生？第二，如果確實有扞格發生，你現在要怎麼解？今天所有的委員版，因為都不是院版，委員版當中是不是就有我們擔憂的這種狀況，所以如果現在先寫成委員版的條文，是不是通過以後反而會造成更大的麻煩？次長請回答。"],["吳次長堂安：謝謝委員。我主持的7次籌備小組的部分，其實都是先著墨在新住民基本法的內容，所以我們在檢視的時候，到底要幾個科、要承辦什麼業務，就依照基本法裡面的劃分去研究，去研究了之後才發現其實有包括教育的部分、有文化的部分、有勞動的部分、就業的部分，甚至還有有關媒體……"],["蘇委員巧慧：應該不是才發現，是更確認。"],["吳次長堂安：就是因為這樣，所以我們在組別的時候，我們就會先找各相關部會，就是原本有一些是在各部會工作的部分，我們就要跟它協調，是把業務連同人移撥過來，或者是業務移撥過來、人沒移過來，所以我們一直在開這個會。"],["蘇委員巧慧：因為事實上比如說勞動好了，新住民在一個地方上班會牽涉到的勞動到底是以人為界線，在這裡上班，所以我所有未來碰到的東西以後都變成是移民署來處理還是勞動部？我和一個臺灣本地人，兩個人的狀況有差異，到底這件事情要怎麼處理，會不會有這樣的問題？"],["吳次長堂安：就是會有，所以包括像教育部的部分，教育事業、教育就業這些，還有例如通譯等等在基本法裡面有規範的部分，我們都要找教育單位來做確定。"],["蘇委員巧慧：還有我想國人也相當關心的，因為我們的新住民組成是來自多個不同的國家，包括中國，所以到底是先適用兩岸人民關係條例，還是先適用新住民的部分，您怎麼回答？"],["吳次長堂安：謝謝委員。在新住民基本法第二條裡面，當時是把婚姻移民之外，還有包括專業技術移民，也要保障新住民子女，所以其實我們目前新住民定義的部分，在婚姻移民就占得滿多的，有些還要分兩種，他的身分別是什麼？第二個，他有沒有取得國人身分？如果取得國人身分其實就是我們的國民，我們認為是這樣子，經統計這樣子的話，目前新住民基本法適用就有超過……"],["蘇委員巧慧：他未來還會繼續受陸委會的管轄嗎？依兩岸人民關係條例。"],["吳次長堂安：這個部分就是還要再進一步去釐清。"],["蘇委員巧慧：是嘛！所以就是有這麼多問題，到底解決到哪裡了？到底是解決的前期還是已經快解決完了？還是是什麼狀況？"],["吳次長堂安：跟委員報告，有關婚配移民的部分，我們跟陸委會還要再確認。"],["蘇委員巧慧：好，我今天用全部的時間，其實我準備非常多的題目啦！因為其實如果要具體下去的話，我個人最關心的是包括通譯制度的部分，我們在審查基本法的時候甚至有做了附帶決議，要求內政部既有的通譯制度要能夠更精進，甚至要有專責的單位來做全國統一、各族群統一的通譯制度。不過我覺得與其在這裡進入到細節的討論，不如是我們大家一起，尤其今天是內政和司法的聯席，我們再一起回憶一次，當時我們要做這部法律的時候，其實是為了保障新加入臺灣的朋友們、新住民的權益，讓他們可以更好地生活在這塊土地上、更快地融入這個社會，這是我們的本意。但如果我們因為這部法律以及如果我們要倉促上路，後面的相關配套倉促上路的話，那麼我認為有可能反而會得不償失，因為牽涉的方面可能太多了。我反而會覺得內政部是不是應該……不管是在內政委員會也好，因為這是我們的本業，你們應該定期提出專報跟我們報告現在進度到哪裡了，我們贊不贊成這樣的方向，大家都贊成了之後、有共識之後，再化約為文字，一次到位，這樣大家才能得到最好的保障。而不是今天就現在委員的各版本，在沒有院版的狀況下，沒有共識，甚至是沒有會議已經有定論的狀況下，就開始處理這樣的法案，這是我個人的意見啦，好，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝。我們下一位請王義川委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":114,"meet_id":"聯席會議-11-3-36,15-3","speakers":["吳宗憲","麥玉珍","羅美玲","張智倫","黃國昌","蘇巧慧","王義川","黃捷","張宏陸","王美惠","陳培瑜","沈發惠","吳思瑤","李柏毅","羅智強","許宇甄","翁曉玲","王鴻薇","莊瑞雄","葉元之","徐欣瑩","牛煦庭","吳琪銘"],"page_start":57,"meetingDate":["2025-06-19"],"gazette_id":"1146101","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1146101_00003"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期司法及法制、內政委員會第3次聯席會議紀錄","content":"一、併案審查(一)委員鄭天財 Sra Kacaw 等21人、(二)台灣民眾黨黨團、(三)委員張智倫等17\n人、(四)委員葉元之等21人及(五)委員羅美玲等18人分別擬具「內政部組織法第五條條文修正草\n案」案；二、併案審查(一)台灣民眾黨黨團、(二)委員鄭天財 Sra Kacaw 等21人、(三)國民黨黨\n團、(四)委員張智倫等17人、(五)委員葉元之等21人及(六)委員羅美玲等18人分別擬具「內政部\n新住民發展署組織法草案」案","agenda_id":"1146101_00002"}}}