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\"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"開\"}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"嗎\"}, {\"word\": \"連\"}, {\"word\": \"民\", \"start\": 558.754, \"end\": 558.774, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"間\"}, {\"word\": \"團\"}, {\"word\": \"體\"}, {\"word\": \"開\"}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"都\", \"start\": 558.774, \"end\": 558.794, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"比\", \"start\": 558.794, \"end\": 558.814, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"你\", \"start\": 558.814, \"end\": 558.834, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"開\"}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"更\", \"start\": 558.834, \"end\": 558.894, \"score\": 0.667}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 558.894, \"end\": 558.994, \"score\": 0.484}, {\"word\": \"效\", \"start\": 558.994, \"end\": 559.014, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"率\", \"start\": 559.014, \"end\": 559.154, \"score\": 0.857}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 559.154, \"end\": 559.214, \"score\": 0.412}, {\"word\": \"上\", \"start\": 559.214, \"end\": 559.234, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 559.234, \"end\": 559.254, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:11,348 --> 00:00:20,264\n謝謝主席有請次長麻煩次長委員好次長好委員好\n\n2\n00:00:21,919 --> 00:00:50,641\n從頭到尾聽了覺得你真的很為難但是新住民基本法從去年就是7月16號通過後依法內政部必須要成立新住民發展署當然我也了解成立一個署需要一定的行政跟時間所以將近一年的時間裡我持續針對新住民發展署也做了進度的質詢\n\n3\n00:00:51,682 --> 00:01:15,255\n但是非常辛苦爭取到的足夠三級機關的源額但是沒想到部長我們的內政部長之前質詢的時候竟然說跟全民說我們三級機關已滿了連爭取這個已經通過他都不知道所以上個月呢省預算\n\n4\n00:01:16,135 --> 00:01:41,721\n解凍案的時候部長說相關的法律需要時間也需要行政總署協調所以沒辦法提出來剛才我們的行政總署也說開了22次的會內容是什麼但我們同樣來看了去年8月行政院宣布體育署升格為體育\n\n5\n00:01:43,781 --> 00:01:53,546\n體育部的時候呢原本的體育署改為全民運動署的字號改名後來呢又再這樣子的\n\n6\n00:01:55,025 --> 00:02:23,615\n組織草案早早就在去年11月排入宴會也順利在許多委員的提出版本裡面拔成共識在今年1月也三讀通過所以當一樣的事情輪到內政部毫無進度從通過基本法直到今天已經超過11個月了要審查新住民發展署的組織法\n\n7\n00:02:24,455 --> 00:02:39,739\n各委員包含台灣民眾黨都提出版本可是我們依然看不到院版也看不到內政部的版本我們要如何去討論不要說過去說都說過去說快點所以呢我們希望我們的市長剛才你說你開了七次的會議七次的會議你跟誰開怎麼開的\n\n8\n00:02:53,018 --> 00:02:56,152\n你最了解嗎所以你回答以上\n\n9\n00:02:57,492 --> 00:03:27,092\n好謝謝委員指教我想過去籌備小組的七次會議包括組織編制依照新住民基本法的內容的內容我們做業務分工所以我們已經研擬完成大概四個組有12個科那再來就是人員的編制那人員編制我們這邊也跟人總這邊所以你說你開了四次七次我看七次你七次裡面的是籌備小組嘛但是呢七次裡面我要的資料\n\n10\n00:03:28,193 --> 00:03:50,693\n有主題沒有記錄也沒有內容各部會公文跨部會的公文在哪裡完全沒有你說的7次內政部給我的公文12次一樣只有主題沒有記錄也沒有內容也沒有跨部會的公文剛才我們的總知總處說22次\n\n11\n00:03:53,308 --> 00:04:01,155\n用本的啊大家都在催啊在催啊在說謊所以呢這個就是我們覺得說體育部做到內政部卻遲遲提不出來這樣到底是部長說有困難還是單純不想做\n\n12\n00:04:11,303 --> 00:04:31,355\n法治是規劃新住民發展署不可缺的一部這個是依法行政不是叫你去做的啦但是內政部行呢開會的記錄就是這樣就是整理出來每一次開會沒有時間沒有地點也沒有各部會這樣叫做開會還是\n\n13\n00:04:34,386 --> 00:04:55,252\n什麼會統絡會吧我們可以看到的第五次跟第十二次的記錄裡面就是主題沒有記錄都有討論說新的機關組織草案但是關於說明的草案到現在目前的進度如何有沒有初步的版本讓我們能一起討論對不對版本沒有\n\n14\n00:05:00,793 --> 00:05:24,689\n討論那麼多次浪費資源浪費大家的時間事實上有沒有討論又不知道所以討論什麼討論了我們中央組織要去改組織的時候體育部的時候你們要討論怎麼樣一起來提啊完全沒有當我們已經台灣民眾黨爭取到新住民發展署附帶決議三讀通過這個\n\n15\n00:05:28,257 --> 00:05:54,879\n然而也準備好給你們了你們還是沒有討論到連部長都不知道討論在哪裡去了所以呢關於哪個部會在哪裡完全不知道所以開會記錄也沒有所以再問說我們的內政部第五條裡面的內容我們新住民事務從移民署獨立出來的由我們發展署負責所以\n\n16\n00:05:55,860 --> 00:06:23,371\n那麼單純直接的修法因為看不到版本只要七條而已但是你們討論那麼多次你們是不做還是沒有能力做還是無能做要說清楚吧完全沒有所以呢這個不是說修法什麼這樣的意見所以我們感覺就是剛才我們的王一川委員說你們中國你們中國新住民\n\n17\n00:06:24,918 --> 00:06:29,545\n你們也說不要歧視這個中國能不能當署長\n\n18\n00:06:30,956 --> 00:06:57,978\n中國不能當署長新住民在台灣可以當署長誰說的剛才我們王傑委員說我們一樣的我們新住民拿到台灣的身份證是一樣權利一樣對不對權利一樣職權也是要一樣吧你們說要一樣一定要一樣啊為什麼這個人又說不一樣這個人又說不一樣對不對這裡也說不一樣但是呢我們張綺路委員又說\n\n19\n00:06:59,318 --> 00:07:25,443\n你拿到身份證那一刻你就是台灣人那一刻是台灣人不要分不要分為什麼有權力有職長有官位就要分所以說我們民進黨你們回去討論一下要討論你們要的不要一人說一句都不一樣的所以關於我們民眾黨提出的發展署\n\n20\n00:07:26,400 --> 00:07:53,529\n的法案裡面第二條第三款明定新住民發展署範圍就是新住民考試規劃執行督導與漲注希望的是什麼我們要強化新住民的政策新住民參與國家考試或者是說現在我們移民官裡面也有新住民在裡面考移民官\n\n21\n00:07:54,469 --> 00:08:15,836\n所以我们希望的是在我们的法里面有这样的考试类科考试类科怎么去删呢怎么样补我们考试部说要来去这个删除我们是要讲的是我们要辅导要怎么样去督导监督奖励\n\n22\n00:08:16,616 --> 00:08:42,173\n他們要去考現在也有很多台灣人學不同國家的語言也在移民署裡面考這樣子的考官所以我們要的是考相關列科還有新住民也可以考其他人可以考但是我們希望說新住民優先是因為這個是鼓勵性質還有讓更多人有這個機會但是呢\n\n23\n00:08:43,707 --> 00:09:02,780\n條文不看來這裡拋空幹不好對不對我們要看條文關於這些條文關於這些規定來去問你們你們才答得出來不是都不懂來這裡問這是明嘴的方式所以希望我們今天把這個組織法\n\n24\n00:09:04,341 --> 00:09:19,254\n以裡面的組織法來去討論我們內政部行政沒有版本你們開會也開會不出來不到你們開的是同樂會還是什麼會完全沒有簽名完全沒有記錄完全沒有公文這個是叫做開會嗎連民間團體開會都比你們開會更有效率以上謝謝好謝謝\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n11348\t20264\t謝謝主席 有請次長麻煩次長委員好次長好委員好\n21919\t50641\t從頭到尾聽了覺得你真的很為難但是新住民基本法從去年就是7月16號通過後依法內政部必須要成立新住民發展署當然我也了解成立一個署需要一定的行政跟時間所以將近一年的時間裡我持續針對新住民發展署也做了進度的質詢\n51682\t75255\t但是非常辛苦爭取到的 足夠三級機關的源額但是沒想到部長 我們的內政部長之前質詢的時候 竟然說跟全民說我們三級機關已滿了連爭取這個已經通過 他都不知道所以上個月呢 省預算\n76135\t101721\t解凍案的時候部長說相關的法律需要時間也需要行政總署協調所以沒辦法提出來剛才我們的行政總署也說開了22次的會內容是什麼但我們同樣來看了去年8月行政院宣布體育署升格為體育\n103781\t113546\t體育部的時候呢原本的體育署改為全民運動署的字號改名後來呢又再這樣子的\n115025\t143615\t組織草案早早就在去年11月排入宴會也順利在許多委員的提出版本裡面拔成共識在今年1月也三讀通過所以當一樣的事情輪到內政部毫無進度從通過基本法直到今天已經超過11個月了要審查新住民發展署的組織法\n144455\t159739\t各委員包含台灣民眾黨都提出版本可是我們依然看不到院版也看不到內政部的版本我們要如何去討論不要說過去 說都說過去 說快點所以呢我們希望我們的市長剛才你說你開了七次的會議七次的會議你跟誰開 怎麼開的\n173018\t176152\t你最了解嗎 所以你回答以上\n177492\t207092\t好謝謝委員指教我想過去籌備小組的七次會議包括組織編制依照新住民基本法的內容的內容我們做業務分工所以我們已經研擬完成大概四個組有12個科那再來就是人員的編制那人員編制我們這邊也跟人總這邊所以你說你開了四次七次我看七次你七次裡面的是籌備小組嘛但是呢七次裡面我要的資料\n208193\t230693\t有主題沒有記錄也沒有內容各部會公文跨部會的公文在哪裡完全沒有你說的7次內政部給我的公文12次一樣只有主題沒有記錄也沒有內容也沒有跨部會的公文剛才我們的總知總處說22次\n233308\t241155\t用本的啊 大家都在催啊 在催啊 在說謊所以呢這個就是我們覺得說體育部做到 內政部卻遲遲提不出來這樣到底是部長說有困難 還是單純不想做\n251303\t271355\t法治是規劃新住民發展署不可缺的一部 這個是依法行政 不是叫你去做的啦但是內政部行呢 開會的記錄就是這樣就是整理出來每一次開會 沒有時間 沒有地點 也沒有各部會 這樣叫做開會 還是\n274386\t295252\t什麼會 統絡會吧我們可以看到的第五次跟第十二次的記錄裡面就是主題沒有記錄都有討論說新的機關組織草案但是關於說明的草案到現在目前的進度如何有沒有初步的版本讓我們能一起討論對不對 版本沒有\n300793\t324689\t討論那麼多次浪費資源浪費大家的時間事實上有沒有討論又不知道所以討論什麼討論了我們中央組織要去改組織的時候體育部的時候你們要討論怎麼樣一起來提啊完全沒有當我們已經台灣民眾黨爭取到新住民發展署附帶決議三讀通過這個\n328257\t354879\t然而也準備好給你們了你們還是沒有討論到連部長都不知道討論在哪裡去了所以呢關於哪個部會在哪裡完全不知道所以開會記錄也沒有所以再問說我們的內政部第五條裡面的內容我們新住民事務從移民署獨立出來的由我們發展署負責所以\n355860\t383371\t那麼單純直接的修法因為看不到版本只要七條而已但是你們討論那麼多次你們是不做還是沒有能力做還是無能做要說清楚吧完全沒有所以呢這個不是說修法什麼這樣的意見所以我們感覺就是剛才我們的王一川委員說你們中國你們中國新住民\n384918\t389545\t你們也說不要歧視這個中國能不能當署長\n390956\t417978\t中國不能當署長新住民在台灣可以當署長誰說的剛才我們王傑委員說我們一樣的我們新住民拿到台灣的身份證是一樣權利一樣對不對權利一樣職權也是要一樣吧你們說要一樣一定要一樣啊為什麼這個人又說不一樣這個人又說不一樣對不對這裡也說不一樣但是呢我們張綺路委員又說\n419318\t445443\t你拿到身份證那一刻你就是台灣人那一刻是台灣人不要分不要分為什麼有權力有職長有官位就要分所以說我們民進黨你們回去討論一下要討論你們要的不要一人說一句都不一樣的所以關於我們民眾黨提出的發展署\n446400\t473529\t的法案裡面第二條第三款明定新住民發展署範圍就是新住民考試規劃執行督導與漲注希望的是什麼我們要強化新住民的政策新住民參與國家考試或者是說現在我們移民官裡面也有新住民在裡面考移民官\n474469\t495836\t所以我们希望的是在我们的法里面有这样的考试类科考试类科怎么去删呢 怎么样补我们考试部说要来去这个删除我们是要讲的是我们要辅导要怎么样去督导监督奖励\n496616\t522173\t他們要去考現在也有很多台灣人學不同國家的語言也在移民署裡面考這樣子的考官所以我們要的是考相關列科還有新住民也可以考其他人可以考但是我們希望說新住民優先是因為這個是鼓勵性質還有讓更多人有這個機會但是呢\n523707\t542780\t條文不看來這裡拋空幹不好對不對我們要看條文關於這些條文關於這些規定來去問你們你們才答得出來不是都不懂來這裡問這是明嘴的方式所以希望我們今天把這個組織法\n544341\t559254\t以裡面的組織法來去討論我們內政部行政沒有版本你們開會也開會不出來不到你們開的是同樂會還是什麼會完全沒有簽名完全沒有記錄完全沒有公文這個是叫做開會嗎連民間團體開會都比你們開會更有效率以上 謝謝好 謝謝\n","txt":"謝謝主席 有請次長麻煩次長委員好次長好委員好\n從頭到尾聽了覺得你真的很為難但是新住民基本法從去年就是7月16號通過後依法內政部必須要成立新住民發展署當然我也了解成立一個署需要一定的行政跟時間所以將近一年的時間裡我持續針對新住民發展署也做了進度的質詢\n但是非常辛苦爭取到的 足夠三級機關的源額但是沒想到部長 我們的內政部長之前質詢的時候 竟然說跟全民說我們三級機關已滿了連爭取這個已經通過 他都不知道所以上個月呢 省預算\n解凍案的時候部長說相關的法律需要時間也需要行政總署協調所以沒辦法提出來剛才我們的行政總署也說開了22次的會內容是什麼但我們同樣來看了去年8月行政院宣布體育署升格為體育\n體育部的時候呢原本的體育署改為全民運動署的字號改名後來呢又再這樣子的\n組織草案早早就在去年11月排入宴會也順利在許多委員的提出版本裡面拔成共識在今年1月也三讀通過所以當一樣的事情輪到內政部毫無進度從通過基本法直到今天已經超過11個月了要審查新住民發展署的組織法\n各委員包含台灣民眾黨都提出版本可是我們依然看不到院版也看不到內政部的版本我們要如何去討論不要說過去 說都說過去 說快點所以呢我們希望我們的市長剛才你說你開了七次的會議七次的會議你跟誰開 怎麼開的\n你最了解嗎 所以你回答以上\n好謝謝委員指教我想過去籌備小組的七次會議包括組織編制依照新住民基本法的內容的內容我們做業務分工所以我們已經研擬完成大概四個組有12個科那再來就是人員的編制那人員編制我們這邊也跟人總這邊所以你說你開了四次七次我看七次你七次裡面的是籌備小組嘛但是呢七次裡面我要的資料\n有主題沒有記錄也沒有內容各部會公文跨部會的公文在哪裡完全沒有你說的7次內政部給我的公文12次一樣只有主題沒有記錄也沒有內容也沒有跨部會的公文剛才我們的總知總處說22次\n用本的啊 大家都在催啊 在催啊 在說謊所以呢這個就是我們覺得說體育部做到 內政部卻遲遲提不出來這樣到底是部長說有困難 還是單純不想做\n法治是規劃新住民發展署不可缺的一部 這個是依法行政 不是叫你去做的啦但是內政部行呢 開會的記錄就是這樣就是整理出來每一次開會 沒有時間 沒有地點 也沒有各部會 這樣叫做開會 還是\n什麼會 統絡會吧我們可以看到的第五次跟第十二次的記錄裡面就是主題沒有記錄都有討論說新的機關組織草案但是關於說明的草案到現在目前的進度如何有沒有初步的版本讓我們能一起討論對不對 版本沒有\n討論那麼多次浪費資源浪費大家的時間事實上有沒有討論又不知道所以討論什麼討論了我們中央組織要去改組織的時候體育部的時候你們要討論怎麼樣一起來提啊完全沒有當我們已經台灣民眾黨爭取到新住民發展署附帶決議三讀通過這個\n然而也準備好給你們了你們還是沒有討論到連部長都不知道討論在哪裡去了所以呢關於哪個部會在哪裡完全不知道所以開會記錄也沒有所以再問說我們的內政部第五條裡面的內容我們新住民事務從移民署獨立出來的由我們發展署負責所以\n那麼單純直接的修法因為看不到版本只要七條而已但是你們討論那麼多次你們是不做還是沒有能力做還是無能做要說清楚吧完全沒有所以呢這個不是說修法什麼這樣的意見所以我們感覺就是剛才我們的王一川委員說你們中國你們中國新住民\n你們也說不要歧視這個中國能不能當署長\n中國不能當署長新住民在台灣可以當署長誰說的剛才我們王傑委員說我們一樣的我們新住民拿到台灣的身份證是一樣權利一樣對不對權利一樣職權也是要一樣吧你們說要一樣一定要一樣啊為什麼這個人又說不一樣這個人又說不一樣對不對這裡也說不一樣但是呢我們張綺路委員又說\n你拿到身份證那一刻你就是台灣人那一刻是台灣人不要分不要分為什麼有權力有職長有官位就要分所以說我們民進黨你們回去討論一下要討論你們要的不要一人說一句都不一樣的所以關於我們民眾黨提出的發展署\n的法案裡面第二條第三款明定新住民發展署範圍就是新住民考試規劃執行督導與漲注希望的是什麼我們要強化新住民的政策新住民參與國家考試或者是說現在我們移民官裡面也有新住民在裡面考移民官\n所以我们希望的是在我们的法里面有这样的考试类科考试类科怎么去删呢 怎么样补我们考试部说要来去这个删除我们是要讲的是我们要辅导要怎么样去督导监督奖励\n他們要去考現在也有很多台灣人學不同國家的語言也在移民署裡面考這樣子的考官所以我們要的是考相關列科還有新住民也可以考其他人可以考但是我們希望說新住民優先是因為這個是鼓勵性質還有讓更多人有這個機會但是呢\n條文不看來這裡拋空幹不好對不對我們要看條文關於這些條文關於這些規定來去問你們你們才答得出來不是都不懂來這裡問這是明嘴的方式所以希望我們今天把這個組織法\n以裡面的組織法來去討論我們內政部行政沒有版本你們開會也開會不出來不到你們開的是同樂會還是什麼會完全沒有簽名完全沒有記錄完全沒有公文這個是叫做開會嗎連民間團體開會都比你們開會更有效率以上 謝謝好 謝謝\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:11.348 --> 00:20.264\n謝謝主席有請次長麻煩次長委員好次長好委員好\n\n00:21.919 --> 00:50.641\n從頭到尾聽了覺得你真的很為難但是新住民基本法從去年就是7月16號通過後依法內政部必須要成立新住民發展署當然我也了解成立一個署需要一定的行政跟時間所以將近一年的時間裡我持續針對新住民發展署也做了進度的質詢\n\n00:51.682 --> 01:15.255\n但是非常辛苦爭取到的足夠三級機關的源額但是沒想到部長我們的內政部長之前質詢的時候竟然說跟全民說我們三級機關已滿了連爭取這個已經通過他都不知道所以上個月呢省預算\n\n01:16.135 --> 01:41.721\n解凍案的時候部長說相關的法律需要時間也需要行政總署協調所以沒辦法提出來剛才我們的行政總署也說開了22次的會內容是什麼但我們同樣來看了去年8月行政院宣布體育署升格為體育\n\n01:43.781 --> 01:53.546\n體育部的時候呢原本的體育署改為全民運動署的字號改名後來呢又再這樣子的\n\n01:55.025 --> 02:23.615\n組織草案早早就在去年11月排入宴會也順利在許多委員的提出版本裡面拔成共識在今年1月也三讀通過所以當一樣的事情輪到內政部毫無進度從通過基本法直到今天已經超過11個月了要審查新住民發展署的組織法\n\n02:24.455 --> 02:39.739\n各委員包含台灣民眾黨都提出版本可是我們依然看不到院版也看不到內政部的版本我們要如何去討論不要說過去說都說過去說快點所以呢我們希望我們的市長剛才你說你開了七次的會議七次的會議你跟誰開怎麼開的\n\n02:53.018 --> 02:56.152\n你最了解嗎所以你回答以上\n\n02:57.492 --> 03:27.092\n好謝謝委員指教我想過去籌備小組的七次會議包括組織編制依照新住民基本法的內容的內容我們做業務分工所以我們已經研擬完成大概四個組有12個科那再來就是人員的編制那人員編制我們這邊也跟人總這邊所以你說你開了四次七次我看七次你七次裡面的是籌備小組嘛但是呢七次裡面我要的資料\n\n03:28.193 --> 03:50.693\n有主題沒有記錄也沒有內容各部會公文跨部會的公文在哪裡完全沒有你說的7次內政部給我的公文12次一樣只有主題沒有記錄也沒有內容也沒有跨部會的公文剛才我們的總知總處說22次\n\n03:53.308 --> 04:01.155\n用本的啊大家都在催啊在催啊在說謊所以呢這個就是我們覺得說體育部做到內政部卻遲遲提不出來這樣到底是部長說有困難還是單純不想做\n\n04:11.303 --> 04:31.355\n法治是規劃新住民發展署不可缺的一部這個是依法行政不是叫你去做的啦但是內政部行呢開會的記錄就是這樣就是整理出來每一次開會沒有時間沒有地點也沒有各部會這樣叫做開會還是\n\n04:34.386 --> 04:55.252\n什麼會統絡會吧我們可以看到的第五次跟第十二次的記錄裡面就是主題沒有記錄都有討論說新的機關組織草案但是關於說明的草案到現在目前的進度如何有沒有初步的版本讓我們能一起討論對不對版本沒有\n\n05:00.793 --> 05:24.689\n討論那麼多次浪費資源浪費大家的時間事實上有沒有討論又不知道所以討論什麼討論了我們中央組織要去改組織的時候體育部的時候你們要討論怎麼樣一起來提啊完全沒有當我們已經台灣民眾黨爭取到新住民發展署附帶決議三讀通過這個\n\n05:28.257 --> 05:54.879\n然而也準備好給你們了你們還是沒有討論到連部長都不知道討論在哪裡去了所以呢關於哪個部會在哪裡完全不知道所以開會記錄也沒有所以再問說我們的內政部第五條裡面的內容我們新住民事務從移民署獨立出來的由我們發展署負責所以\n\n05:55.860 --> 06:23.371\n那麼單純直接的修法因為看不到版本只要七條而已但是你們討論那麼多次你們是不做還是沒有能力做還是無能做要說清楚吧完全沒有所以呢這個不是說修法什麼這樣的意見所以我們感覺就是剛才我們的王一川委員說你們中國你們中國新住民\n\n06:24.918 --> 06:29.545\n你們也說不要歧視這個中國能不能當署長\n\n06:30.956 --> 06:57.978\n中國不能當署長新住民在台灣可以當署長誰說的剛才我們王傑委員說我們一樣的我們新住民拿到台灣的身份證是一樣權利一樣對不對權利一樣職權也是要一樣吧你們說要一樣一定要一樣啊為什麼這個人又說不一樣這個人又說不一樣對不對這裡也說不一樣但是呢我們張綺路委員又說\n\n06:59.318 --> 07:25.443\n你拿到身份證那一刻你就是台灣人那一刻是台灣人不要分不要分為什麼有權力有職長有官位就要分所以說我們民進黨你們回去討論一下要討論你們要的不要一人說一句都不一樣的所以關於我們民眾黨提出的發展署\n\n07:26.400 --> 07:53.529\n的法案裡面第二條第三款明定新住民發展署範圍就是新住民考試規劃執行督導與漲注希望的是什麼我們要強化新住民的政策新住民參與國家考試或者是說現在我們移民官裡面也有新住民在裡面考移民官\n\n07:54.469 --> 08:15.836\n所以我们希望的是在我们的法里面有这样的考试类科考试类科怎么去删呢怎么样补我们考试部说要来去这个删除我们是要讲的是我们要辅导要怎么样去督导监督奖励\n\n08:16.616 --> 08:42.173\n他們要去考現在也有很多台灣人學不同國家的語言也在移民署裡面考這樣子的考官所以我們要的是考相關列科還有新住民也可以考其他人可以考但是我們希望說新住民優先是因為這個是鼓勵性質還有讓更多人有這個機會但是呢\n\n08:43.707 --> 09:02.780\n條文不看來這裡拋空幹不好對不對我們要看條文關於這些條文關於這些規定來去問你們你們才答得出來不是都不懂來這裡問這是明嘴的方式所以希望我們今天把這個組織法\n\n09:04.341 --> 09:19.254\n以裡面的組織法來去討論我們內政部行政沒有版本你們開會也開會不出來不到你們開的是同樂會還是什麼會完全沒有簽名完全沒有記錄完全沒有公文這個是叫做開會嗎連民間團體開會都比你們開會更有效率以上謝謝好謝謝\n\n","segments":[{"start":11.348,"end":20.264,"text":"謝謝主席 有請次長麻煩次長委員好次長好委員好"},{"start":21.919,"end":50.641,"text":"從頭到尾聽了覺得你真的很為難但是新住民基本法從去年就是7月16號通過後依法內政部必須要成立新住民發展署當然我也了解成立一個署需要一定的行政跟時間所以將近一年的時間裡我持續針對新住民發展署也做了進度的質詢"},{"start":51.682,"end":75.255,"text":"但是非常辛苦爭取到的 足夠三級機關的源額但是沒想到部長 我們的內政部長之前質詢的時候 竟然說跟全民說我們三級機關已滿了連爭取這個已經通過 他都不知道所以上個月呢 省預算"},{"start":76.135,"end":101.721,"text":"解凍案的時候部長說相關的法律需要時間也需要行政總署協調所以沒辦法提出來剛才我們的行政總署也說開了22次的會內容是什麼但我們同樣來看了去年8月行政院宣布體育署升格為體育"},{"start":103.781,"end":113.546,"text":"體育部的時候呢原本的體育署改為全民運動署的字號改名後來呢又再這樣子的"},{"start":115.025,"end":143.615,"text":"組織草案早早就在去年11月排入宴會也順利在許多委員的提出版本裡面拔成共識在今年1月也三讀通過所以當一樣的事情輪到內政部毫無進度從通過基本法直到今天已經超過11個月了要審查新住民發展署的組織法"},{"start":144.455,"end":159.739,"text":"各委員包含台灣民眾黨都提出版本可是我們依然看不到院版也看不到內政部的版本我們要如何去討論不要說過去 說都說過去 說快點所以呢我們希望我們的市長剛才你說你開了七次的會議七次的會議你跟誰開 怎麼開的"},{"start":173.018,"end":176.152,"text":"你最了解嗎 所以你回答以上"},{"start":177.492,"end":207.092,"text":"好謝謝委員指教我想過去籌備小組的七次會議包括組織編制依照新住民基本法的內容的內容我們做業務分工所以我們已經研擬完成大概四個組有12個科那再來就是人員的編制那人員編制我們這邊也跟人總這邊所以你說你開了四次七次我看七次你七次裡面的是籌備小組嘛但是呢七次裡面我要的資料"},{"start":208.193,"end":230.693,"text":"有主題沒有記錄也沒有內容各部會公文跨部會的公文在哪裡完全沒有你說的7次內政部給我的公文12次一樣只有主題沒有記錄也沒有內容也沒有跨部會的公文剛才我們的總知總處說22次"},{"start":233.308,"end":241.155,"text":"用本的啊 大家都在催啊 在催啊 在說謊所以呢這個就是我們覺得說體育部做到 內政部卻遲遲提不出來這樣到底是部長說有困難 還是單純不想做"},{"start":251.303,"end":271.355,"text":"法治是規劃新住民發展署不可缺的一部 這個是依法行政 不是叫你去做的啦但是內政部行呢 開會的記錄就是這樣就是整理出來每一次開會 沒有時間 沒有地點 也沒有各部會 這樣叫做開會 還是"},{"start":274.386,"end":295.252,"text":"什麼會 統絡會吧我們可以看到的第五次跟第十二次的記錄裡面就是主題沒有記錄都有討論說新的機關組織草案但是關於說明的草案到現在目前的進度如何有沒有初步的版本讓我們能一起討論對不對 版本沒有"},{"start":300.793,"end":324.689,"text":"討論那麼多次浪費資源浪費大家的時間事實上有沒有討論又不知道所以討論什麼討論了我們中央組織要去改組織的時候體育部的時候你們要討論怎麼樣一起來提啊完全沒有當我們已經台灣民眾黨爭取到新住民發展署附帶決議三讀通過這個"},{"start":328.257,"end":354.879,"text":"然而也準備好給你們了你們還是沒有討論到連部長都不知道討論在哪裡去了所以呢關於哪個部會在哪裡完全不知道所以開會記錄也沒有所以再問說我們的內政部第五條裡面的內容我們新住民事務從移民署獨立出來的由我們發展署負責所以"},{"start":355.86,"end":383.371,"text":"那麼單純直接的修法因為看不到版本只要七條而已但是你們討論那麼多次你們是不做還是沒有能力做還是無能做要說清楚吧完全沒有所以呢這個不是說修法什麼這樣的意見所以我們感覺就是剛才我們的王一川委員說你們中國你們中國新住民"},{"start":384.918,"end":389.545,"text":"你們也說不要歧視這個中國能不能當署長"},{"start":390.956,"end":417.978,"text":"中國不能當署長新住民在台灣可以當署長誰說的剛才我們王傑委員說我們一樣的我們新住民拿到台灣的身份證是一樣權利一樣對不對權利一樣職權也是要一樣吧你們說要一樣一定要一樣啊為什麼這個人又說不一樣這個人又說不一樣對不對這裡也說不一樣但是呢我們張綺路委員又說"},{"start":419.318,"end":445.443,"text":"你拿到身份證那一刻你就是台灣人那一刻是台灣人不要分不要分為什麼有權力有職長有官位就要分所以說我們民進黨你們回去討論一下要討論你們要的不要一人說一句都不一樣的所以關於我們民眾黨提出的發展署"},{"start":446.4,"end":473.529,"text":"的法案裡面第二條第三款明定新住民發展署範圍就是新住民考試規劃執行督導與漲注希望的是什麼我們要強化新住民的政策新住民參與國家考試或者是說現在我們移民官裡面也有新住民在裡面考移民官"},{"start":474.469,"end":495.836,"text":"所以我们希望的是在我们的法里面有这样的考试类科考试类科怎么去删呢 怎么样补我们考试部说要来去这个删除我们是要讲的是我们要辅导要怎么样去督导监督奖励"},{"start":496.616,"end":522.173,"text":"他們要去考現在也有很多台灣人學不同國家的語言也在移民署裡面考這樣子的考官所以我們要的是考相關列科還有新住民也可以考其他人可以考但是我們希望說新住民優先是因為這個是鼓勵性質還有讓更多人有這個機會但是呢"},{"start":523.707,"end":542.78,"text":"條文不看來這裡拋空幹不好對不對我們要看條文關於這些條文關於這些規定來去問你們你們才答得出來不是都不懂來這裡問這是明嘴的方式所以希望我們今天把這個組織法"},{"start":544.341,"end":559.254,"text":"以裡面的組織法來去討論我們內政部行政沒有版本你們開會也開會不出來不到你們開的是同樂會還是什麼會完全沒有簽名完全沒有記錄完全沒有公文這個是叫做開會嗎連民間團體開會都比你們開會更有效率以上 謝謝好 謝謝"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":504,"blocks":[["麥委員玉珍：（10時18分）謝謝主席，有請次長。"],["主席：麻煩次長。"],["吳次長堂安：委員好。"],["麥委員玉珍：次長好。"],["吳次長堂安：委員好。"],["麥委員玉珍：從頭到尾聽了，覺得你真的很為難，但是新住民基本法從去年7月16日三讀通過後，內政部依法必須要成立新住民發展署。當然我也了解成立一個署需要一定的行政跟時間，所以將近一年的時間裡，我持續對新住民發展署做了進度的質詢，非常辛苦地爭取到足夠三級機關的員額，但是沒想到內政部部長之前質詢的時候竟然跟全民說三級機關已滿了。連已經爭取通過他都不知道。所以上個月審預算解凍案的時候，部長說相關法規需要時間，也需要跟行政總處協調，所以沒辦法提出來。剛才行政總處也說開了22次的會議，但內容是什麼？","但我們同樣來看，去年8月行政院宣布體育署升格為體育部，原本的體育署改名為全民運動署之後，這個組織草案早早就在去年11月排入院會，也順利地在許多委員提出的版本裡面達成共識，在今年1月也三讀通過。但一樣的事情輪到內政部卻毫無進度，從通過基本法直到今天已經超過11個月了，要審查新住民發展署組織法，各委員包含台灣民眾黨都提出了版本，可是我們依然看不到院版，也看不到內政部的版本，我們要如何去討論？我們不說過去，就說現在！次長，剛才你也說開了7次會議，這7次會議是跟誰開、怎麼開的，相信你最了解，所以請你回答以上的問題。"],["吳次長堂安：謝謝委員指教。過去籌備小組的7次會議，包括組織編制，我們是依照新住民基本法的內容做業務分工，我們已經研擬完成，大概有4個組、12個科。再來就是人員的編制，人員編制的部分我們也跟人總做……"],["麥委員玉珍：你說你開了4次？"],["吳次長堂安：7次。"],["麥委員玉珍：7次，7次都是籌備小組嘛？"],["吳次長堂安：是。"],["麥委員玉珍：這是我要的資料，這7次裡面，有主題，沒有紀錄，也沒有內容，也沒有各部會的公文，跨部會的公文在哪裡？完全沒有！你說7次，內政部給我的公文，12次，一樣只有主題，沒有紀錄，也沒有內容，也沒有跨部會的公文。剛才人事行政總處說有22次，用吹的啦！大家都在吹牛、在說謊。體育部能做到的，內政部卻遲遲提不出來，這到底是部長說的有困難，還是只是單純不想做？","法制是規劃新住民發展署不可缺少的一步，這個是依法行政，不是要你多做的，但是內政部回函的開會紀錄就是這樣，就是整理出來每一次開會，沒有時間、沒有地點，也沒有各部會的公文，這樣叫做開會還是什麼會？是同樂會吧？我們可以看到從第5次到第12次的紀錄裡面，主題沒有紀錄，都有討論到新機關組織法草案，但是關於你們說明的草案，到目前的進度如何？有沒有初步的版本讓我們能一起討論？沒有版本，討論那麼多次，浪費資源、浪費大家的時間，事實上有沒有討論又不知道，所以要討論什麼？要討論中央組織去改組織、改體育部的時候，你們要怎麼樣一起來提，但你們完全沒有！當台灣民眾黨已經爭取到新住民發展署附帶決議三讀通過，員額也準備好給你們了，你們還是沒有討論，連部長都不知道，討論到哪裡去了？關於哪個部會在哪裡，完全不知道，連開會紀錄也沒有。","另外，內政部組織法第五條修正草案裡面，把新住民事務從移民署獨立出來，由新住民發展署負責，這是那麼單純又直接的修法，但因為看不到版本，只有七條而已，但是你們討論那麼多次，你們是不做，還是沒有能力做，還是無能做，也要說清楚吧，完全沒有！所以我只能在這裡詢問你們對這個修法有什麼樣的意見。","像剛才王義川委員說「你們中國」、「你們中國」，我覺得對於新住民，你們也說不要歧視，但中國人能不能當署長？中國人不能當署長，新住民在臺灣可以當署長。誰說的？剛才黃捷委員說，我們是一樣的，新住民拿到臺灣的身分證是一樣的，權利一樣，對不對？既然權利一樣，職權也應該要一樣吧？你們說要一樣，就一定要一樣啊！為什麼這個人說不一樣，那個人也說不一樣，對不對？但是張宏陸委員又說，拿到身分證的那一刻就是臺灣人了，那一刻就是臺灣人了，不要分，為什麼有權利、有職掌、有官位，就要分？所以請民進黨回去討論一下，要討論你們要的，不要一人一種說法，大家都不一樣。","所以關於民眾黨所提的新住民發展署組織法第二條第三款，明定新住民發展署職掌範圍包括「新住民國家考試之規劃、執行、督導及獎助」，希望能強化新住民政策，協助新住民參與國家考試，或者是現在移民官裡面也有新住民去考，所以希望在我們的法裡面有這樣的考試類科，考試類科怎麼去刪呢？考試院說要刪除，我們要講的是要輔導，要怎麼樣去督導、監督、獎勵他們去考，現在也有很多臺灣人學不同國家的語言，也在移民署裡面考這樣子的移民官，所以我們要的是考相關類科，新住民可以考，其他人也可以考，但是我們希望新住民優先，因為這個是鼓勵性質，可以讓更多人有這個機會。但是條文不看，要來這裡「膨風」，有效嗎？對不對？我們要看條文去問你們，關於這些條文、關於這些規定，你們才答得出來，不是都不懂，來就是問，這是名嘴的方式。","所以希望我們今天可以討論組織法裡面的內容，行政院、內政部沒有版本，你們開會也開不出結果，不知道你們開的是同樂會還是什麼會？完全沒有簽名、完全沒有紀錄、完全沒有公文，這個叫做開會嗎？連民間團體開會都比你們開會更有效率。以上，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝。","下一位請王美惠委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":114,"meet_id":"聯席會議-11-3-36,15-3","speakers":["吳宗憲","麥玉珍","羅美玲","張智倫","黃國昌","蘇巧慧","王義川","黃捷","張宏陸","王美惠","陳培瑜","沈發惠","吳思瑤","李柏毅","羅智強","許宇甄","翁曉玲","王鴻薇","莊瑞雄","葉元之","徐欣瑩","牛煦庭","吳琪銘"],"page_start":57,"meetingDate":["2025-06-19"],"gazette_id":"1146101","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1146101_00003"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期司法及法制、內政委員會第3次聯席會議紀錄","content":"一、併案審查(一)委員鄭天財 Sra Kacaw 等21人、(二)台灣民眾黨黨團、(三)委員張智倫等17\n人、(四)委員葉元之等21人及(五)委員羅美玲等18人分別擬具「內政部組織法第五條條文修正草\n案」案；二、併案審查(一)台灣民眾黨黨團、(二)委員鄭天財 Sra Kacaw 等21人、(三)國民黨黨\n團、(四)委員張智倫等17人、(五)委員葉元之等21人及(六)委員羅美玲等18人分別擬具「內政部\n新住民發展署組織法草案」案","agenda_id":"1146101_00002"}}}