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{\"word\": \"論\"}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 462.845, \"end\": 462.865, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"主\", \"start\": 462.865, \"end\": 462.905, \"score\": 0.5}, {\"word\": \"席\", \"start\": 462.905, \"end\": 462.925, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:06,121 --> 00:00:10,821\n好謝謝主席那先請內政部移民署謝謝好請移民署署長\n\n2\n00:00:15,152 --> 00:00:36,463\n委員好署長你好我想要跟你討論一下關於所謂新住民考試這件事情我先說一下我的認識再請署長給予指教因為剛剛麥玉珍委員一直在追這一題喔我認為她對於這件事情一定有很大的誤解甚至指控你們是同樂會這件事情喔一我想請問一下現在在民眾黨黨團還有國民黨黨團的版本裡面第二條的第二款第三款他們的寫法是這樣說的他說\n\n3\n00:00:43,746 --> 00:01:03,434\n新住民國家考試之規劃執行督導及獎勵他認為這個是相關的新住民發展署日後要負責的業務內容之一可是我的理解是不管他是來自於除了中國以外來自於哪一個國家的新住民\n\n4\n00:01:03,834 --> 00:01:20,425\n一定是要拿到台灣的身份證之後他就可以參與國家考試專業人員的認證考試然後他就可以因為這個考試的合格取得某一個公務人員的職位或者是在台灣以專業的身份進行社會參與我的理解是對的嗎\n\n5\n00:01:21,586 --> 00:01:35,856\n在這裡跟委員做一個報告其實根據我們憲法五權分立的一個原則其實國家考試權它是屬於所謂的考試院這是第一點我要做一個說明那第二個部分的話就是說\n\n6\n00:01:36,556 --> 00:01:52,268\n在憲法裡面他有很明確的規定就是說我們不得因為這個性別種族身份而為不同的對待所以在我們新住民基本法的第二條第三款裡面他去提到這個部分在\n\n7\n00:01:53,109 --> 00:02:06,753\n在這個相關的新住民只要是這個取得身份涉及十年之後他是有參加國家考試的權利的取得身份涉及十年那這樣我就不懂了你認為因為你們一定研究過民眾黨團的版本跟國民黨團的版本\n\n8\n00:02:08,894 --> 00:02:30,042\n他們之所以這樣寫,難道他們是希望,我不確定啦,因為我沒有去請教過他們難道他們是希望要為新住民朋友爭取,在沒有拿到身份證,而且沒有符合你剛剛的條件之前國家就必須要開一個特別的門,給新住民參與國家考試難道他們是想要這樣做嗎?那如果這樣做,會不會有你剛剛說違憲的問題?\n\n9\n00:02:32,023 --> 00:02:47,710\n所以基本上我們認為這個跟憲法上是有所衝突的啦所以我們認為就是說不可以因為這個特殊的身份而這個他只要取得了身份涉及了之後他就是國人應該跟國人的權益是一致的不應該為特別的一個對待\n\n10\n00:02:48,510 --> 00:03:14,053\n好那這個等一下我們來討論的時候我認為這個問題很大那另外我也想問他可能想像另外一種國家考試你聽聽看就是他不參與公務人員的考試他可能參加所謂證照例如說美容師啊美髮師啊廚師啊像這樣的專業證照他可能認定這也是國家考試的一部分可不可以請您說明一下當然我知道是考試院或是全序部相關的業務但是就你們在法規上如何去做一些討論\n\n11\n00:03:15,634 --> 00:03:32,847\n這個應該是屬於所謂的是不是所謂的專門職業技術的這種考試這種考試它相關的一個規範其實坦白講我不是那麼的清楚好沒錯我們等一下也許要進入主條討論也許我們要討論這些內容的時候我認為這些事情是我們要釐清的\n\n12\n00:03:33,567 --> 00:03:49,745\n不是一個委員在質詢台上大吼大叫好像看起來是在為新住民爭取權益但我認為他創造了更難以討論的模糊空間我想這件事情你剛說明非常清楚我們也會持續關注來謝謝移民署那接下來有請內政部次長謝謝\n\n13\n00:03:56,291 --> 00:04:00,796\n好謝謝次長我想要跟次長分享一下關於新住民的權益我知道我們過往內政部做了非常非常多的事情下一張我們接下來討論關於新住民的運動需求我想跟次長分享一些很溫馨可愛的案例在頭影片的左手邊是台灣杯足球賽他所協助的是移民移工新住民等等\n\n14\n00:04:18,254 --> 00:04:45,833\n因為他們在台灣有相關運動社團的需求那於是他們有自主組織了一些團隊然後自己還舉辦比賽甚至這個規模越來越大他現在甚至有個正式的名字叫台灣杯足球賽那當然這件事情呢過往在體育署也好在外交部也好他們都有積極的協助那過未來我還其實要拜託內政部這邊我們如何協同體育署或是外交部積極給予更多協助因為未來運動部要成立了\n\n15\n00:04:47,854 --> 00:05:02,451\n現在運動部的規劃裡面呢我的想像啦它可能必須要放在重規或是運動休閒或是社區運動或是運動健康其實這邊只是先友善的提醒跟拜託內政部後續在運動部掛牌成立之後如何部會之間的討論跟對接\n\n16\n00:05:05,514 --> 00:05:33,056\n這邊也特別謝謝委員那我想其實我們在跟相關部會在討論的業務分工其實包括在教育部分因為現在還沒有分家所以在教育部分包括運動比較少討論到我們是討論到他的教育例如說通益的一些訓練等等的那我想這個新的項目部分我們後續還是我會跟目前教育部還是會來討論這個分工好這個部分就要拜託我們後續可以一起來努力了好謝謝那接下來有請全序部謝謝\n\n17\n00:05:36,141 --> 00:05:55,790\n次長請回謝謝主席我還有時間你突然站起來嚇我一跳我聽到你說謝謝我還沒還沒好全序部這邊我要先謝謝全序部我們來討論一個事情當然今天要拜託您把問題帶回去因為可能不是您的工作層級可以回答不過沒有關係我把問題反映出來第一個我們看到考試院有發布\n\n18\n00:05:56,610 --> 00:06:18,179\n公務人員請假規則修正草案在6月16號的時候裡面很重要的事情是把身心調試假放進去了資料委員爭取了很久總算放進去了但是我們看到相關配套我們有一點擔心我們先提出來拜託你們待會去討論怎麼說呢你們說身心這個相關的法規說身心調試假要納入試假病假\n\n19\n00:06:19,600 --> 00:06:34,834\n來計算他的寫法是這樣可是如果我們來看到公務人員考積法實行細則裡面他說市價並價合計超過14天者考積不得列為假等所以原本本來是每億的身心條市價他如果又被這一條卡住\n\n20\n00:06:36,135 --> 00:06:55,300\n会不会有另外的身心压力当然我认为这都需要配套跟讨论因为我看到你们其实有一个美意我们来看一下在这个公务人员考接法实行细则里面第四条有写到应该要扣除家庭照顾假生理假还有安胎室友也就是说我们在制定相关法规的时候\n\n21\n00:06:55,680 --> 00:07:20,289\n我们知道有更多基层公务人员的需求是希望包含这些但不要被并入所谓市价并价14天考机便宜的所以身心调试价假设真的列为市价但是还要跟这个卡住所以要拜托你们待会去研议好不好我们先预先把配套做好让我们真的想要协助公务员并且真的让身心调试价的美意在未来执行的时候它真的是可以往好的方向发展\n\n22\n00:07:22,079 --> 00:07:42,925\n跟委員報告一下我們呃這次公務員請假規則的修正草案裡面其實呃已經有明定說身心調試假不可以影響公務員的考積所以但是因為他跟實行細則他一般把他放進試假裡所以雖然利益良善但是他回到實行細則他又卡住了好不好好就拜託你們帶回去討論好謝謝謝謝主席謝謝謝謝\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n6121\t10821\t好 謝謝主席 那先請內政部移民署 謝謝好 請移民署署長\n15152\t36463\t委員好 署長你好我想要跟你討論一下關於所謂新住民考試這件事情我先說一下我的認識再請署長給予指教因為剛剛麥玉珍委員一直在追這一題喔我認為她對於這件事情一定有很大的誤解甚至指控你們是同樂會這件事情喔一 我想請問一下現在在民眾黨黨團還有國民黨黨團的版本裡面第二條的第二款第三款他們的寫法是這樣說的他說\n43746\t63434\t新住民國家考試之規劃執行督導及獎勵他認為這個是相關的新住民發展署日後要負責的業務內容之一可是我的理解是不管他是來自於除了中國以外來自於哪一個國家的新住民\n63834\t80425\t一定是要拿到台灣的身份證之後他就可以參與國家考試專業人員的認證考試然後他就可以因為這個考試的合格取得某一個公務人員的職位或者是在台灣以專業的身份進行社會參與我的理解是對的嗎\n81586\t95856\t在這裡跟委員做一個報告其實根據我們憲法五權分立的一個原則其實國家考試權它是屬於所謂的考試院這是第一點我要做一個說明那第二個部分的話就是說\n96556\t112268\t在憲法裡面他有很明確的規定就是說我們不得因為這個性別種族身份而為不同的對待所以在我們新住民基本法的第二條第三款裡面他去提到這個部分在\n113109\t126753\t在這個相關的新住民只要是這個取得身份涉及十年之後他是有參加國家考試的權利的取得身份涉及十年那這樣我就不懂了你認為因為你們一定研究過民眾黨團的版本跟國民黨團的版本\n128894\t150042\t他們之所以這樣寫,難道他們是希望,我不確定啦,因為我沒有去請教過他們難道他們是希望要為新住民朋友爭取,在沒有拿到身份證,而且沒有符合你剛剛的條件之前國家就必須要開一個特別的門,給新住民參與國家考試難道他們是想要這樣做嗎?那如果這樣做,會不會有你剛剛說違憲的問題?\n152023\t167710\t所以基本上我們認為這個跟憲法上是有所衝突的啦所以我們認為就是說不可以因為這個特殊的身份而這個他只要取得了身份涉及了之後他就是國人應該跟國人的權益是一致的不應該為特別的一個對待\n168510\t194053\t好那這個等一下我們來討論的時候我認為這個問題很大那另外我也想問他可能想像另外一種國家考試你聽聽看就是他不參與公務人員的考試他可能參加所謂證照例如說美容師啊美髮師啊廚師啊像這樣的專業證照他可能認定這也是國家考試的一部分可不可以請您說明一下當然我知道是考試院或是全序部相關的業務但是就你們在法規上如何去做一些討論\n195634\t212847\t這個應該是屬於所謂的是不是所謂的專門職業技術的這種考試這種考試它相關的一個規範其實坦白講我不是那麼的清楚好沒錯我們等一下也許要進入主條討論也許我們要討論這些內容的時候我認為這些事情是我們要釐清的\n213567\t229745\t不是一個委員在質詢台上大吼大叫好像看起來是在為新住民爭取權益但我認為他創造了更難以討論的模糊空間我想這件事情你剛說明非常清楚我們也會持續關注來 謝謝移民署那接下來有請內政部次長 謝謝\n236291\t240796\t好 謝謝次長我想要跟次長分享一下關於新住民的權益我知道我們過往內政部做了非常非常多的事情下一張我們接下來討論關於新住民的運動需求我想跟次長分享一些很溫馨可愛的案例在頭影片的左手邊是台灣杯足球賽他所協助的是移民 移工 新住民等等\n258254\t285833\t因為他們在台灣有相關運動社團的需求那於是他們有自主組織了一些團隊然後自己還舉辦比賽甚至這個規模越來越大他現在甚至有個正式的名字叫台灣杯足球賽那當然這件事情呢過往在體育署也好在外交部也好他們都有積極的協助那過未來我還其實要拜託內政部這邊我們如何協同體育署或是外交部積極給予更多協助因為未來運動部要成立了\n287854\t302451\t現在運動部的規劃裡面呢我的想像啦它可能必須要放在重規或是運動休閒或是社區運動或是運動健康其實這邊只是先友善的提醒跟拜託內政部後續在運動部掛牌成立之後如何部會之間的討論跟對接\n305514\t333056\t這邊也特別謝謝委員那我想其實我們在跟相關部會在討論的業務分工其實包括在教育部分因為現在還沒有分家所以在教育部分包括運動比較少討論到我們是討論到他的教育例如說通益的一些訓練等等的那我想這個新的項目部分我們後續還是我會跟目前教育部還是會來討論這個分工好 這個部分就要拜託我們後續可以一起來努力了好 謝謝那接下來有請全序部 謝謝\n336141\t355790\t次長請回謝謝主席我還有時間你突然站起來嚇我一跳我聽到你說謝謝我還沒還沒好 全序部這邊我要先謝謝全序部我們來討論一個事情當然今天要拜託您把問題帶回去因為可能不是您的工作層級可以回答不過沒有關係我把問題反映出來第一個我們看到考試院有發布\n356610\t378179\t公務人員請假規則修正草案在6月16號的時候裡面很重要的事情是把身心調試假放進去了資料委員爭取了很久總算放進去了但是我們看到相關配套我們有一點擔心我們先提出來拜託你們待會去討論怎麼說呢你們說身心這個相關的法規說身心調試假要納入試假病假\n379600\t394834\t來計算他的寫法是這樣可是如果我們來看到公務人員考積法實行細則裡面他說市價並價合計超過14天者考積不得列為假等所以原本本來是每億的身心條市價他如果又被這一條卡住\n396135\t415300\t会不会有另外的身心压力当然我认为这都需要配套跟讨论因为我看到你们其实有一个美意我们来看一下在这个公务人员考接法实行细则里面第四条有写到应该要扣除家庭照顾假生理假还有安胎室友也就是说我们在制定相关法规的时候\n415680\t440289\t我们知道有更多基层公务人员的需求是希望包含这些但不要被并入所谓市价并价14天考机便宜的所以身心调试价假设真的列为市价但是还要跟这个卡住所以要拜托你们待会去研议好不好我们先预先把配套做好让我们真的想要协助公务员并且真的让身心调试价的美意在未来执行的时候它真的是可以往好的方向发展\n442079\t462925\t跟委員報告一下我們呃這次公務員請假規則的修正草案裡面其實呃已經有明定說身心調試假不可以影響公務員的考積所以但是因為他跟實行細則他一般把他放進試假裡所以雖然利益良善但是他回到實行細則他又卡住了好不好好就拜託你們帶回去討論好謝謝謝謝主席謝謝謝謝\n","txt":"好 謝謝主席 那先請內政部移民署 謝謝好 請移民署署長\n委員好 署長你好我想要跟你討論一下關於所謂新住民考試這件事情我先說一下我的認識再請署長給予指教因為剛剛麥玉珍委員一直在追這一題喔我認為她對於這件事情一定有很大的誤解甚至指控你們是同樂會這件事情喔一 我想請問一下現在在民眾黨黨團還有國民黨黨團的版本裡面第二條的第二款第三款他們的寫法是這樣說的他說\n新住民國家考試之規劃執行督導及獎勵他認為這個是相關的新住民發展署日後要負責的業務內容之一可是我的理解是不管他是來自於除了中國以外來自於哪一個國家的新住民\n一定是要拿到台灣的身份證之後他就可以參與國家考試專業人員的認證考試然後他就可以因為這個考試的合格取得某一個公務人員的職位或者是在台灣以專業的身份進行社會參與我的理解是對的嗎\n在這裡跟委員做一個報告其實根據我們憲法五權分立的一個原則其實國家考試權它是屬於所謂的考試院這是第一點我要做一個說明那第二個部分的話就是說\n在憲法裡面他有很明確的規定就是說我們不得因為這個性別種族身份而為不同的對待所以在我們新住民基本法的第二條第三款裡面他去提到這個部分在\n在這個相關的新住民只要是這個取得身份涉及十年之後他是有參加國家考試的權利的取得身份涉及十年那這樣我就不懂了你認為因為你們一定研究過民眾黨團的版本跟國民黨團的版本\n他們之所以這樣寫,難道他們是希望,我不確定啦,因為我沒有去請教過他們難道他們是希望要為新住民朋友爭取,在沒有拿到身份證,而且沒有符合你剛剛的條件之前國家就必須要開一個特別的門,給新住民參與國家考試難道他們是想要這樣做嗎?那如果這樣做,會不會有你剛剛說違憲的問題?\n所以基本上我們認為這個跟憲法上是有所衝突的啦所以我們認為就是說不可以因為這個特殊的身份而這個他只要取得了身份涉及了之後他就是國人應該跟國人的權益是一致的不應該為特別的一個對待\n好那這個等一下我們來討論的時候我認為這個問題很大那另外我也想問他可能想像另外一種國家考試你聽聽看就是他不參與公務人員的考試他可能參加所謂證照例如說美容師啊美髮師啊廚師啊像這樣的專業證照他可能認定這也是國家考試的一部分可不可以請您說明一下當然我知道是考試院或是全序部相關的業務但是就你們在法規上如何去做一些討論\n這個應該是屬於所謂的是不是所謂的專門職業技術的這種考試這種考試它相關的一個規範其實坦白講我不是那麼的清楚好沒錯我們等一下也許要進入主條討論也許我們要討論這些內容的時候我認為這些事情是我們要釐清的\n不是一個委員在質詢台上大吼大叫好像看起來是在為新住民爭取權益但我認為他創造了更難以討論的模糊空間我想這件事情你剛說明非常清楚我們也會持續關注來 謝謝移民署那接下來有請內政部次長 謝謝\n好 謝謝次長我想要跟次長分享一下關於新住民的權益我知道我們過往內政部做了非常非常多的事情下一張我們接下來討論關於新住民的運動需求我想跟次長分享一些很溫馨可愛的案例在頭影片的左手邊是台灣杯足球賽他所協助的是移民 移工 新住民等等\n因為他們在台灣有相關運動社團的需求那於是他們有自主組織了一些團隊然後自己還舉辦比賽甚至這個規模越來越大他現在甚至有個正式的名字叫台灣杯足球賽那當然這件事情呢過往在體育署也好在外交部也好他們都有積極的協助那過未來我還其實要拜託內政部這邊我們如何協同體育署或是外交部積極給予更多協助因為未來運動部要成立了\n現在運動部的規劃裡面呢我的想像啦它可能必須要放在重規或是運動休閒或是社區運動或是運動健康其實這邊只是先友善的提醒跟拜託內政部後續在運動部掛牌成立之後如何部會之間的討論跟對接\n這邊也特別謝謝委員那我想其實我們在跟相關部會在討論的業務分工其實包括在教育部分因為現在還沒有分家所以在教育部分包括運動比較少討論到我們是討論到他的教育例如說通益的一些訓練等等的那我想這個新的項目部分我們後續還是我會跟目前教育部還是會來討論這個分工好 這個部分就要拜託我們後續可以一起來努力了好 謝謝那接下來有請全序部 謝謝\n次長請回謝謝主席我還有時間你突然站起來嚇我一跳我聽到你說謝謝我還沒還沒好 全序部這邊我要先謝謝全序部我們來討論一個事情當然今天要拜託您把問題帶回去因為可能不是您的工作層級可以回答不過沒有關係我把問題反映出來第一個我們看到考試院有發布\n公務人員請假規則修正草案在6月16號的時候裡面很重要的事情是把身心調試假放進去了資料委員爭取了很久總算放進去了但是我們看到相關配套我們有一點擔心我們先提出來拜託你們待會去討論怎麼說呢你們說身心這個相關的法規說身心調試假要納入試假病假\n來計算他的寫法是這樣可是如果我們來看到公務人員考積法實行細則裡面他說市價並價合計超過14天者考積不得列為假等所以原本本來是每億的身心條市價他如果又被這一條卡住\n会不会有另外的身心压力当然我认为这都需要配套跟讨论因为我看到你们其实有一个美意我们来看一下在这个公务人员考接法实行细则里面第四条有写到应该要扣除家庭照顾假生理假还有安胎室友也就是说我们在制定相关法规的时候\n我们知道有更多基层公务人员的需求是希望包含这些但不要被并入所谓市价并价14天考机便宜的所以身心调试价假设真的列为市价但是还要跟这个卡住所以要拜托你们待会去研议好不好我们先预先把配套做好让我们真的想要协助公务员并且真的让身心调试价的美意在未来执行的时候它真的是可以往好的方向发展\n跟委員報告一下我們呃這次公務員請假規則的修正草案裡面其實呃已經有明定說身心調試假不可以影響公務員的考積所以但是因為他跟實行細則他一般把他放進試假裡所以雖然利益良善但是他回到實行細則他又卡住了好不好好就拜託你們帶回去討論好謝謝謝謝主席謝謝謝謝\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:06.121 --> 00:10.821\n好謝謝主席那先請內政部移民署謝謝好請移民署署長\n\n00:15.152 --> 00:36.463\n委員好署長你好我想要跟你討論一下關於所謂新住民考試這件事情我先說一下我的認識再請署長給予指教因為剛剛麥玉珍委員一直在追這一題喔我認為她對於這件事情一定有很大的誤解甚至指控你們是同樂會這件事情喔一我想請問一下現在在民眾黨黨團還有國民黨黨團的版本裡面第二條的第二款第三款他們的寫法是這樣說的他說\n\n00:43.746 --> 01:03.434\n新住民國家考試之規劃執行督導及獎勵他認為這個是相關的新住民發展署日後要負責的業務內容之一可是我的理解是不管他是來自於除了中國以外來自於哪一個國家的新住民\n\n01:03.834 --> 01:20.425\n一定是要拿到台灣的身份證之後他就可以參與國家考試專業人員的認證考試然後他就可以因為這個考試的合格取得某一個公務人員的職位或者是在台灣以專業的身份進行社會參與我的理解是對的嗎\n\n01:21.586 --> 01:35.856\n在這裡跟委員做一個報告其實根據我們憲法五權分立的一個原則其實國家考試權它是屬於所謂的考試院這是第一點我要做一個說明那第二個部分的話就是說\n\n01:36.556 --> 01:52.268\n在憲法裡面他有很明確的規定就是說我們不得因為這個性別種族身份而為不同的對待所以在我們新住民基本法的第二條第三款裡面他去提到這個部分在\n\n01:53.109 --> 02:06.753\n在這個相關的新住民只要是這個取得身份涉及十年之後他是有參加國家考試的權利的取得身份涉及十年那這樣我就不懂了你認為因為你們一定研究過民眾黨團的版本跟國民黨團的版本\n\n02:08.894 --> 02:30.042\n他們之所以這樣寫,難道他們是希望,我不確定啦,因為我沒有去請教過他們難道他們是希望要為新住民朋友爭取,在沒有拿到身份證,而且沒有符合你剛剛的條件之前國家就必須要開一個特別的門,給新住民參與國家考試難道他們是想要這樣做嗎?那如果這樣做,會不會有你剛剛說違憲的問題?\n\n02:32.023 --> 02:47.710\n所以基本上我們認為這個跟憲法上是有所衝突的啦所以我們認為就是說不可以因為這個特殊的身份而這個他只要取得了身份涉及了之後他就是國人應該跟國人的權益是一致的不應該為特別的一個對待\n\n02:48.510 --> 03:14.053\n好那這個等一下我們來討論的時候我認為這個問題很大那另外我也想問他可能想像另外一種國家考試你聽聽看就是他不參與公務人員的考試他可能參加所謂證照例如說美容師啊美髮師啊廚師啊像這樣的專業證照他可能認定這也是國家考試的一部分可不可以請您說明一下當然我知道是考試院或是全序部相關的業務但是就你們在法規上如何去做一些討論\n\n03:15.634 --> 03:32.847\n這個應該是屬於所謂的是不是所謂的專門職業技術的這種考試這種考試它相關的一個規範其實坦白講我不是那麼的清楚好沒錯我們等一下也許要進入主條討論也許我們要討論這些內容的時候我認為這些事情是我們要釐清的\n\n03:33.567 --> 03:49.745\n不是一個委員在質詢台上大吼大叫好像看起來是在為新住民爭取權益但我認為他創造了更難以討論的模糊空間我想這件事情你剛說明非常清楚我們也會持續關注來謝謝移民署那接下來有請內政部次長謝謝\n\n03:56.291 --> 04:00.796\n好謝謝次長我想要跟次長分享一下關於新住民的權益我知道我們過往內政部做了非常非常多的事情下一張我們接下來討論關於新住民的運動需求我想跟次長分享一些很溫馨可愛的案例在頭影片的左手邊是台灣杯足球賽他所協助的是移民移工新住民等等\n\n04:18.254 --> 04:45.833\n因為他們在台灣有相關運動社團的需求那於是他們有自主組織了一些團隊然後自己還舉辦比賽甚至這個規模越來越大他現在甚至有個正式的名字叫台灣杯足球賽那當然這件事情呢過往在體育署也好在外交部也好他們都有積極的協助那過未來我還其實要拜託內政部這邊我們如何協同體育署或是外交部積極給予更多協助因為未來運動部要成立了\n\n04:47.854 --> 05:02.451\n現在運動部的規劃裡面呢我的想像啦它可能必須要放在重規或是運動休閒或是社區運動或是運動健康其實這邊只是先友善的提醒跟拜託內政部後續在運動部掛牌成立之後如何部會之間的討論跟對接\n\n05:05.514 --> 05:33.056\n這邊也特別謝謝委員那我想其實我們在跟相關部會在討論的業務分工其實包括在教育部分因為現在還沒有分家所以在教育部分包括運動比較少討論到我們是討論到他的教育例如說通益的一些訓練等等的那我想這個新的項目部分我們後續還是我會跟目前教育部還是會來討論這個分工好這個部分就要拜託我們後續可以一起來努力了好謝謝那接下來有請全序部謝謝\n\n05:36.141 --> 05:55.790\n次長請回謝謝主席我還有時間你突然站起來嚇我一跳我聽到你說謝謝我還沒還沒好全序部這邊我要先謝謝全序部我們來討論一個事情當然今天要拜託您把問題帶回去因為可能不是您的工作層級可以回答不過沒有關係我把問題反映出來第一個我們看到考試院有發布\n\n05:56.610 --> 06:18.179\n公務人員請假規則修正草案在6月16號的時候裡面很重要的事情是把身心調試假放進去了資料委員爭取了很久總算放進去了但是我們看到相關配套我們有一點擔心我們先提出來拜託你們待會去討論怎麼說呢你們說身心這個相關的法規說身心調試假要納入試假病假\n\n06:19.600 --> 06:34.834\n來計算他的寫法是這樣可是如果我們來看到公務人員考積法實行細則裡面他說市價並價合計超過14天者考積不得列為假等所以原本本來是每億的身心條市價他如果又被這一條卡住\n\n06:36.135 --> 06:55.300\n会不会有另外的身心压力当然我认为这都需要配套跟讨论因为我看到你们其实有一个美意我们来看一下在这个公务人员考接法实行细则里面第四条有写到应该要扣除家庭照顾假生理假还有安胎室友也就是说我们在制定相关法规的时候\n\n06:55.680 --> 07:20.289\n我们知道有更多基层公务人员的需求是希望包含这些但不要被并入所谓市价并价14天考机便宜的所以身心调试价假设真的列为市价但是还要跟这个卡住所以要拜托你们待会去研议好不好我们先预先把配套做好让我们真的想要协助公务员并且真的让身心调试价的美意在未来执行的时候它真的是可以往好的方向发展\n\n07:22.079 --> 07:42.925\n跟委員報告一下我們呃這次公務員請假規則的修正草案裡面其實呃已經有明定說身心調試假不可以影響公務員的考積所以但是因為他跟實行細則他一般把他放進試假裡所以雖然利益良善但是他回到實行細則他又卡住了好不好好就拜託你們帶回去討論好謝謝謝謝主席謝謝謝謝\n\n","segments":[{"start":6.121,"end":10.821,"text":"好 謝謝主席 那先請內政部移民署 謝謝好 請移民署署長"},{"start":15.152,"end":36.463,"text":"委員好 署長你好我想要跟你討論一下關於所謂新住民考試這件事情我先說一下我的認識再請署長給予指教因為剛剛麥玉珍委員一直在追這一題喔我認為她對於這件事情一定有很大的誤解甚至指控你們是同樂會這件事情喔一 我想請問一下現在在民眾黨黨團還有國民黨黨團的版本裡面第二條的第二款第三款他們的寫法是這樣說的他說"},{"start":43.746,"end":63.434,"text":"新住民國家考試之規劃執行督導及獎勵他認為這個是相關的新住民發展署日後要負責的業務內容之一可是我的理解是不管他是來自於除了中國以外來自於哪一個國家的新住民"},{"start":63.834,"end":80.425,"text":"一定是要拿到台灣的身份證之後他就可以參與國家考試專業人員的認證考試然後他就可以因為這個考試的合格取得某一個公務人員的職位或者是在台灣以專業的身份進行社會參與我的理解是對的嗎"},{"start":81.586,"end":95.856,"text":"在這裡跟委員做一個報告其實根據我們憲法五權分立的一個原則其實國家考試權它是屬於所謂的考試院這是第一點我要做一個說明那第二個部分的話就是說"},{"start":96.556,"end":112.268,"text":"在憲法裡面他有很明確的規定就是說我們不得因為這個性別種族身份而為不同的對待所以在我們新住民基本法的第二條第三款裡面他去提到這個部分在"},{"start":113.109,"end":126.753,"text":"在這個相關的新住民只要是這個取得身份涉及十年之後他是有參加國家考試的權利的取得身份涉及十年那這樣我就不懂了你認為因為你們一定研究過民眾黨團的版本跟國民黨團的版本"},{"start":128.894,"end":150.042,"text":"他們之所以這樣寫,難道他們是希望,我不確定啦,因為我沒有去請教過他們難道他們是希望要為新住民朋友爭取,在沒有拿到身份證,而且沒有符合你剛剛的條件之前國家就必須要開一個特別的門,給新住民參與國家考試難道他們是想要這樣做嗎?那如果這樣做,會不會有你剛剛說違憲的問題?"},{"start":152.023,"end":167.71,"text":"所以基本上我們認為這個跟憲法上是有所衝突的啦所以我們認為就是說不可以因為這個特殊的身份而這個他只要取得了身份涉及了之後他就是國人應該跟國人的權益是一致的不應該為特別的一個對待"},{"start":168.51,"end":194.053,"text":"好那這個等一下我們來討論的時候我認為這個問題很大那另外我也想問他可能想像另外一種國家考試你聽聽看就是他不參與公務人員的考試他可能參加所謂證照例如說美容師啊美髮師啊廚師啊像這樣的專業證照他可能認定這也是國家考試的一部分可不可以請您說明一下當然我知道是考試院或是全序部相關的業務但是就你們在法規上如何去做一些討論"},{"start":195.634,"end":212.847,"text":"這個應該是屬於所謂的是不是所謂的專門職業技術的這種考試這種考試它相關的一個規範其實坦白講我不是那麼的清楚好沒錯我們等一下也許要進入主條討論也許我們要討論這些內容的時候我認為這些事情是我們要釐清的"},{"start":213.567,"end":229.745,"text":"不是一個委員在質詢台上大吼大叫好像看起來是在為新住民爭取權益但我認為他創造了更難以討論的模糊空間我想這件事情你剛說明非常清楚我們也會持續關注來 謝謝移民署那接下來有請內政部次長 謝謝"},{"start":236.291,"end":240.796,"text":"好 謝謝次長我想要跟次長分享一下關於新住民的權益我知道我們過往內政部做了非常非常多的事情下一張我們接下來討論關於新住民的運動需求我想跟次長分享一些很溫馨可愛的案例在頭影片的左手邊是台灣杯足球賽他所協助的是移民 移工 新住民等等"},{"start":258.254,"end":285.833,"text":"因為他們在台灣有相關運動社團的需求那於是他們有自主組織了一些團隊然後自己還舉辦比賽甚至這個規模越來越大他現在甚至有個正式的名字叫台灣杯足球賽那當然這件事情呢過往在體育署也好在外交部也好他們都有積極的協助那過未來我還其實要拜託內政部這邊我們如何協同體育署或是外交部積極給予更多協助因為未來運動部要成立了"},{"start":287.854,"end":302.451,"text":"現在運動部的規劃裡面呢我的想像啦它可能必須要放在重規或是運動休閒或是社區運動或是運動健康其實這邊只是先友善的提醒跟拜託內政部後續在運動部掛牌成立之後如何部會之間的討論跟對接"},{"start":305.514,"end":333.056,"text":"這邊也特別謝謝委員那我想其實我們在跟相關部會在討論的業務分工其實包括在教育部分因為現在還沒有分家所以在教育部分包括運動比較少討論到我們是討論到他的教育例如說通益的一些訓練等等的那我想這個新的項目部分我們後續還是我會跟目前教育部還是會來討論這個分工好 這個部分就要拜託我們後續可以一起來努力了好 謝謝那接下來有請全序部 謝謝"},{"start":336.141,"end":355.79,"text":"次長請回謝謝主席我還有時間你突然站起來嚇我一跳我聽到你說謝謝我還沒還沒好 全序部這邊我要先謝謝全序部我們來討論一個事情當然今天要拜託您把問題帶回去因為可能不是您的工作層級可以回答不過沒有關係我把問題反映出來第一個我們看到考試院有發布"},{"start":356.61,"end":378.179,"text":"公務人員請假規則修正草案在6月16號的時候裡面很重要的事情是把身心調試假放進去了資料委員爭取了很久總算放進去了但是我們看到相關配套我們有一點擔心我們先提出來拜託你們待會去討論怎麼說呢你們說身心這個相關的法規說身心調試假要納入試假病假"},{"start":379.6,"end":394.834,"text":"來計算他的寫法是這樣可是如果我們來看到公務人員考積法實行細則裡面他說市價並價合計超過14天者考積不得列為假等所以原本本來是每億的身心條市價他如果又被這一條卡住"},{"start":396.135,"end":415.3,"text":"会不会有另外的身心压力当然我认为这都需要配套跟讨论因为我看到你们其实有一个美意我们来看一下在这个公务人员考接法实行细则里面第四条有写到应该要扣除家庭照顾假生理假还有安胎室友也就是说我们在制定相关法规的时候"},{"start":415.68,"end":440.289,"text":"我们知道有更多基层公务人员的需求是希望包含这些但不要被并入所谓市价并价14天考机便宜的所以身心调试价假设真的列为市价但是还要跟这个卡住所以要拜托你们待会去研议好不好我们先预先把配套做好让我们真的想要协助公务员并且真的让身心调试价的美意在未来执行的时候它真的是可以往好的方向发展"},{"start":442.079,"end":462.925,"text":"跟委員報告一下我們呃這次公務員請假規則的修正草案裡面其實呃已經有明定說身心調試假不可以影響公務員的考積所以但是因為他跟實行細則他一般把他放進試假裡所以雖然利益良善但是他回到實行細則他又卡住了好不好好就拜託你們帶回去討論好謝謝謝謝主席謝謝謝謝"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":543,"blocks":[["陳委員培瑜：（10時38分）謝謝主席。先請內政部移民署，謝謝。"],["主席：請移民署署長。"],["林署長宏恩：委員好。"],["陳委員培瑜：署長，你好。我想要跟你討論一下，關於所謂新住民考試這件事情。我先說一下我的認識，再請署長給予指教，因為剛剛麥玉珍委員一直在追這一題，我認為他對於這件事情一定有很大的誤解，甚至指控你們是同樂會。我想請問一下，現在在民眾黨黨團還有國民黨黨團的版本裡面，第二條第一項第三款的寫法是：「新住民國家考試之規劃、執行、督導及獎助」，他們認為這是新住民發展署日後要負責的業務內容之一。可是我的理解是，除了中國以外，不管他是來自於哪一個國家的新住民，一定要拿到臺灣的身分證之後，才可以參與國家考試、專業人員的認證考試，然後他就可以因為考試合格取得某一個公務人員職位，或者在臺灣以專業的身分進行社會參與。我的理解是對的嗎？"],["林署長宏恩：在這裡跟委員報告，根據憲法五權分立的原則，國家考試權屬於考試院，這是第一點我要說明的。第二個，憲法裡面有很明確的規定，不得因為性別、種族、身分而為不同對待，所以在新住民發展署組織法第二條第一項第三款提到，只要是新住民取得身分、設籍十年之後，就有參加國家考試的權利……"],["陳委員培瑜：好，取得身分、設籍10年，這樣我就不懂了，因為你們一定研究過民眾黨黨團和國民黨黨團的版本，他們之所以這樣寫，我不確定，因為我沒有去請教過他們，難道他們是希望要為新住民朋友爭取在沒有拿到身分證，而且沒有符合你剛剛說的條件之前，國家就必須要開一個特別的門給新住民參與國家考試。難道他們是想要這樣做嗎？如果這樣做，會不會有你剛剛說的違憲問題？"],["林署長宏恩：基本上，我們認為這個跟憲法是有所衝突的，所以我們認為不可以因為特殊的身分，他只要取得身分、設籍之後就是國人，應該跟國人的權益是一致的，不應該為特別的對待。"],["陳委員培瑜：這個等一下我們再來討論，我認為這個問題很大。另外，我也想問，他可能想像是另外一種國家考試，你聽聽看，就是他不參與公務人員考試，他可能參加的是所謂的證照，譬如美容師、美髮師、廚師等，像這樣的專業證照，他可能認定這也是國家考試的一部分，可不可以請你說明一下？當然我知道這是考試院或是銓敘部相關的業務，但是就你們在法規上如何去做一些討論？"],["林署長宏恩：這個應該是屬於所謂的專門職業技術考試，這種考試相關的規範，其實坦白講，我不是那麼清楚。"],["陳委員培瑜：沒錯，我們等一下也許要進入逐條討論，討論這些內容的時候，我認為這些事情是我們要釐清的，不是一個委員在質詢臺上大吼大叫，好像看起來是在為新住民爭取權益，但我認為他創造了更難以討論的模糊空間，這件事情你剛剛說明得非常清楚，我們也會持續關注，謝謝移民署。"],["林署長宏恩：謝謝委員。"],["陳委員培瑜：接下來有請內政部次長，謝謝。"],["吳次長堂安：委員好。"],["陳委員培瑜：謝謝次長，我想要跟次長分享一下關於新住民的權益，我知道過往內政部做了非常非常多的事情，接下來要討論關於新住民的運動需求，我想跟次長分享一些很溫馨可愛的案例。在投影片的左手邊是台灣盃足球賽，所協助的是移民、移工、新住民等等，因為他們在臺灣有相關運動社團的需求，於是他們自主組織了一些團隊，然後自己還舉辦比賽，這個規模越來越大，現在甚至有一個正式的名字叫台灣盃足球賽。當然這件事情過往在體育署也好，在外交部也好，他們都有積極的協助，未來我還要拜託內政部這邊，我們如何協同體育署或是外交部積極給予更多協助？因為未來運動部要成立了，現在運動部的規劃裡面，我的想像是它可能必須要放在綜規、運動休閒、社區運動或是運動健康，其實這邊只是先友善地提醒跟拜託內政部，後續在運動部掛牌成立之後，部會之間如何討論跟對接？"],["吳次長堂安：在這邊也特別謝謝委員，我們跟相關部會在討論業務分工，包括在教育部分，因為現在還沒有分家，運動比較少討論到，我們是討論到他的教育，例如通譯的一些訓練等等。這個新的項目部分，我們後續還是會跟教育部來討論這個分工。"],["陳委員培瑜：這個部分要拜託你們後續可以一起來努力，謝謝。"],["吳次長堂安：沒有問題。"],["陳委員培瑜：接下來有請銓敘部，次長請回。我要先謝謝銓敘部，我們來討論一個事情，今天要拜託你把問題帶回去，因為可能不是你的工作層級可以回答，不過沒有關係，我把問題反映出來。第一個，我看到考試院在6月16日的時候有發布公務人員請假規則修正草案，裡面很重要的事情是把身心調適假放進去了，思瑤委員爭取了很久，總算放進去了。但是我們看到相關配套有點擔心，我們先提出來拜託你們帶回去討論，怎麼說呢？相關法規提到身心調適假要納入事假、病假來計算，它的寫法是這樣，可是公務人員考績法施行細則裡面規定事假、病假合計超過14天者，考績不得列為甲等，所以本來是美意的身心調適假，如果又被這一條卡住，會不會有另外的身心壓力？當然，我認為這都需要配套跟討論，因為我看到你們其實有一個美意，在公務人員考績法施行細則第四條有提到，應該要扣除家庭照顧假、生理假及安胎事由，也就是在制定相關法規的時候，我們知道更多基層公務人員的需求是希望包含這些，但不要被併入事假、病假14天，考績變乙等。假設身心調適假真的列為事假，但是又跟這個卡住，所以要拜託你們帶回去研議，好不好？我們先預先把配套做好，我們真的想要協助公務員，並且真的讓身心調適假的美意，在未來執行的時候是可以往好的方向發展。"],["張專門委員菀玲：跟委員報告，我們這次的公務人員請假規則修正草案裡面，其實已經有明定身心調適假不可以影響公務人員的考績，所以這個部分的保障……"],["陳委員培瑜：但是這部分你們在施行細則把它放進事假裡，所以雖然是立意良善，但是它回到施行細則又卡住了，拜託你們帶回去討論，好不好？"],["張專門委員菀玲：好。"],["陳委員培瑜：謝謝，謝謝主席。"],["主席：謝謝。","下一位請沈發惠委員發言。我們順便宣告一下：待會在李柏毅委員詢答後，我們休息5分鐘，謝謝。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":114,"meet_id":"聯席會議-11-3-36,15-3","speakers":["吳宗憲","麥玉珍","羅美玲","張智倫","黃國昌","蘇巧慧","王義川","黃捷","張宏陸","王美惠","陳培瑜","沈發惠","吳思瑤","李柏毅","羅智強","許宇甄","翁曉玲","王鴻薇","莊瑞雄","葉元之","徐欣瑩","牛煦庭","吳琪銘"],"page_start":57,"meetingDate":["2025-06-19"],"gazette_id":"1146101","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1146101_00003"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期司法及法制、內政委員會第3次聯席會議紀錄","content":"一、併案審查(一)委員鄭天財 Sra Kacaw 等21人、(二)台灣民眾黨黨團、(三)委員張智倫等17\n人、(四)委員葉元之等21人及(五)委員羅美玲等18人分別擬具「內政部組織法第五條條文修正草\n案」案；二、併案審查(一)台灣民眾黨黨團、(二)委員鄭天財 Sra Kacaw 等21人、(三)國民黨黨\n團、(四)委員張智倫等17人、(五)委員葉元之等21人及(六)委員羅美玲等18人分別擬具「內政部\n新住民發展署組織法草案」案","agenda_id":"1146101_00002"}}}