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\"score\": 0.994}, {\"word\": \"再\", \"start\": 601.886, \"end\": 602.166, \"score\": 0.929}, {\"word\": \"深\", \"start\": 602.166, \"end\": 602.546, \"score\": 0.967}, {\"word\": \"思\", \"start\": 602.546, \"end\": 603.407, \"score\": 0.947}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"次\", \"start\": 603.407, \"end\": 604.268, \"score\": 0.922}, {\"word\": \"長\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"主\", \"start\": 604.268, \"end\": 604.428, \"score\": 0.882}, {\"word\": \"席\", \"start\": 604.428, \"end\": 605.729, \"score\": 0.982}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 605.729, \"end\": 605.909, \"score\": 0.889}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"吳\"}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 605.909, \"end\": 605.929, \"score\": 0.816}, {\"word\": \"員\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:07,248 --> 00:00:07,529\n主席請次長謝謝\n\n2\n00:00:13,403 --> 00:00:40,982\n大家辛苦了我想也要再一次清楚的說明民進黨我們對於新住民的各項權益我們一直希望能夠協助跨部會的來協助讓新住民成為國人的這個過渡階段各項的保障權益我們都盡可能的做好做滿讓他們能夠融入台灣社會也就是從新住民成為台灣郎\n\n3\n00:00:42,443 --> 00:01:04,840\n的這個過渡期間我們該做的政策全方面都進行而且是現在進行式所以在這一個身份過渡的期間我們要協助所有新住民的是要去去標籤化而不是貼標籤化甚至是一次貼上一輩子的標籤\n\n4\n00:01:06,321 --> 00:01:20,975\n這是民進黨反對的思維所以說當初在新住民權益保障法是民進黨的主張但是藍白是多數他們還是強硬的用新住民基本法\n\n5\n00:01:21,812 --> 00:01:39,367\n用一個基本法的高位階來強行通過了但今天我們面對的問題就是一步錯步步錯問題來了好我們看到這一頁民進黨當初主張的作用法權益保障法\n\n6\n00:01:40,288 --> 00:02:02,685\n是優於一個只有宣示效用的基本法民進黨的主張因為是作用法可以快狠準快速的制定各項政策而且執行而且因為是一個作用法我們不會產生跟既有法律漢格的問題更重要的嚴肅的課題是當初我們拆了地雷我們守住了一個可能危及國家安全\n\n7\n00:02:10,478 --> 00:02:36,540\n的立法當時被我們發現藍白委員所提的甚至要讓陸配穿上新住民的身份外衣而鬆綁現在陸委會所進行的各項管制也就是陸配極有可能轉換的身份成為新住民的話他就可以入籍年限極有可能達到六變四\n\n8\n00:02:37,200 --> 00:03:00,540\n殊途同歸修不同的法但是達到這樣子的政治目的所以這背後的國安危機我們當然要戒慎恐懼要防要反制所以說我們的政策立場我要再一次的再討論新住民發展署的這個時候再次清楚的說明下一頁\n\n9\n00:03:01,721 --> 00:03:29,280\n在野党的委员用一个基本法固然提高了法的位阶法的地位但是它却产生了副作用架空了用一个三级的单位会架空二级机关陆委会你看这个法律的关系里头用一个高位阶的基本法它就会凌驾了两岸人民关系条例以及港澳人民关系条例这个是法里面下一页\n\n10\n00:03:30,444 --> 00:03:57,513\n在實體面現在65%左右是陸配港澳配偶嘛對不對市長所謂的不管是越南啦印尼這些為大宗的新住民大概只佔35%的比例但是呢如果適用了基本法而且今天我們要一步錯步步錯也讓他成立了新住民發展署的話\n\n11\n00:03:59,901 --> 00:04:28,127\n選擇不明跌床架屋百分之六十五的陸委會的陸配港澳配偶現在是陸委會來做各項服務跟管理輔導對不對那今天成立了新住民發展署請問次長這些陸配跟港澳配偶的所有的服務作業誰做謝謝委員我想那個不管是港澳的或者是陸配的規定還是要依照兩岸條例的規定啦\n\n12\n00:04:29,192 --> 00:04:56,669\n對但是新住民基本法的定義就很清楚啦新住民包括港澳跟陸配啊所以是不是就發生了適用法律的漢格跟現行你會用一個錯誤的法律概念跟框架讓一個三級機關架空了二級機關陸委會是不是有這樣子的疑慮是委員這就是會有法律的未接特別法跟一般法或基本法的沒有錯好我們看下一頁\n\n13\n00:04:57,881 --> 00:05:07,815\n我們來講對新住民的照顧民進黨執政我們努力做更好做更多但是為了成立一個新機關將會\n\n14\n00:05:12,036 --> 00:05:36,887\n產生了實質的困難而且我更要說他很恐怕是虛有其表我這邊列出來的所有的從生活輔導醫療從就業就學教育文化人身安全保障各項權益所有的執行政策的執行是不是已經散列在各個政府部會\n\n15\n00:05:37,967 --> 00:06:00,698\n是的跟委員報告其實委員所爐列的這些本來就是目前我們的分工各部會分工就以今天要審的發展署的組織法裡頭的第二條的所有的在野黨委員的十一項也是即便你今天成立了這個署你這些業務是不是還是回到這些部會執行\n\n16\n00:06:01,983 --> 00:06:24,457\n是的跟委員報告其實我們目前召開期制會就是就這些業務依照基本法的內容到底跟其他部會是不是有些要再調整那這樣成立一個新的發展署可是業務是各部會在做這不是很怪嗎所以我們新的發展署也不可能涵蓋其他部會的業務好我們看下一頁確實需要整合\n\n17\n00:06:25,598 --> 00:06:39,331\n如果說我們需要整合其實現在已經有內政部移民署在進行中而且行政院特別照顧新住民在行政院成立了新住民事務協調匯報就是有一個跨部會的協調機制\n\n18\n00:06:45,276 --> 00:07:04,627\n院長著急的喔然後來讓各部會對於新住民的服務照顧權益保障能夠具體明確的分工不會彼此打架不會彼此有漢格所以如果成立一個新住民發展署我剛剛已經說了即便有一個新的單位整合的工作現在跨部會的協調彙報已經在做更高位\n\n19\n00:07:14,053 --> 00:07:26,363\n然後呢執行的政策的各個面向也是交給其他部會去執行那我們成立這個署不是須有其表嗎不是為了成立而成立嗎\n\n20\n00:07:28,240 --> 00:07:50,227\n最後下一頁因為時間到了我同樣同意剛剛幾位民進黨委員提出來的主張第二條的第三款有關於要考試特殊的權利我們認為要回到考試權的平等的原則而且不要再次違憲侵犯了考試院的權利下一頁\n\n21\n00:07:51,267 --> 00:08:15,583\n在第二條的第八款有關於我不曉得國民黨民眾黨的委員來加了一個新住民廣播電視之規劃是不是有要成立新住民電視台之類的規劃我想這個又是一個更嚴峻的耗費人力物力他需要更長遠的規劃所以我同意羅美玲委員的版本以媒體來取代廣播電視在這個條款的內容我最後利用30秒的時間我要清楚的\n\n22\n00:08:21,407 --> 00:08:42,701\n再次呈現新住民在台灣我們努力讓他從新住民成為台灣郎的過渡期限各項的權益民進黨努力做到這是過去沒有做到的包括新住民可以參選立法委員包括學校開設的母語教學課程只要一個新住民選修就給開課\n\n23\n00:08:44,102 --> 00:09:00,698\n政府政策也已經做到多國語言的翻譯跟服務而且沒有健保的新住民我們給與跟國人一樣享有產檢的補助還有新住民的就學是給予外加名額的協助還有\n\n24\n00:09:01,158 --> 00:09:29,886\n各項技術考科都可以申請多語言的服務包括就業訓練不需要有任何的費用包括新住民的子女另外國家編列獎學金來幫助他們而且台灣22個縣市都有新住民的家庭服務中心以及新住民的子女如果要回台灣就學教育部已經有旋轉教育免費的方式來協助最後一個新住民在移民署的考試\n\n25\n00:09:30,566 --> 00:09:52,538\n也有多語類科現在進行是正在進行換言之還沒有成立一個新住民的發展署各項的業務對於新住民的權益保障服務措施我們努力做好做滿所以大家可以好好繼續的深思熟慮如果成立了一個新的組織確實需有起表\n\n26\n00:09:53,078 --> 00:10:05,929\n又會發生跟其他部會的漢格用一個三級機關凌駕二級機關的權限真的值得大家深思再深思謝謝次長謝謝主席好謝謝吳委員\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n7248\t7529\t主席請次長謝謝\n13403\t40982\t大家辛苦了我想也要再一次清楚的說明民進黨我們對於新住民的各項權益我們一直希望能夠協助跨部會的來協助讓新住民成為國人的這個過渡階段各項的保障權益我們都盡可能的做好做滿讓他們能夠融入台灣社會也就是從新住民成為台灣郎\n42443\t64840\t的這個過渡期間我們該做的政策全方面都進行而且是現在進行式所以在這一個身份過渡的期間我們要協助所有新住民的是要去去標籤化而不是貼標籤化甚至是一次貼上一輩子的標籤\n66321\t80975\t這是民進黨反對的思維所以說當初在新住民權益保障法是民進黨的主張但是藍白是多數他們還是強硬的用新住民基本法\n81812\t99367\t用一個基本法的高位階來強行通過了但今天我們面對的問題就是一步錯步步錯問題來了好我們看到這一頁民進黨當初主張的作用法權益保障法\n100288\t122685\t是優於一個只有宣示效用的基本法民進黨的主張因為是作用法可以快狠準快速的制定各項政策而且執行而且因為是一個作用法我們不會產生跟既有法律漢格的問題更重要的嚴肅的課題是當初我們拆了地雷我們守住了一個可能危及國家安全\n130478\t156540\t的立法當時被我們發現藍白委員所提的甚至要讓陸配穿上新住民的身份外衣而鬆綁現在陸委會所進行的各項管制也就是陸配極有可能轉換的身份成為新住民的話他就可以入籍年限極有可能達到六變四\n157200\t180540\t殊途同歸修不同的法但是達到這樣子的政治目的所以這背後的國安危機我們當然要戒慎恐懼要防要反制所以說我們的政策立場我要再一次的再討論新住民發展署的這個時候再次清楚的說明下一頁\n181721\t209280\t在野党的委员用一个基本法固然提高了法的位阶法的地位但是它却产生了副作用架空了用一个三级的单位会架空二级机关陆委会你看这个法律的关系里头用一个高位阶的基本法它就会凌驾了两岸人民关系条例以及港澳人民关系条例这个是法里面下一页\n210444\t237513\t在實體面現在65%左右是陸配港澳配偶嘛對不對市長所謂的不管是越南啦印尼這些為大宗的新住民大概只佔35%的比例但是呢如果適用了基本法而且今天我們要一步錯步步錯也讓他成立了新住民發展署的話\n239901\t268127\t選擇不明跌床架屋百分之六十五的陸委會的陸配港澳配偶現在是陸委會來做各項服務跟管理輔導對不對那今天成立了新住民發展署請問次長這些陸配跟港澳配偶的所有的服務作業誰做謝謝委員我想那個不管是港澳的或者是陸配的規定還是要依照兩岸條例的規定啦\n269192\t296669\t對 但是新住民基本法的定義就很清楚啦新住民包括港澳跟陸配啊所以是不是就發生了適用法律的漢格跟現行你會用一個錯誤的法律概念跟框架讓一個三級機關架空了二級機關陸委會是不是有這樣子的疑慮是 委員這就是會有法律的未接特別法跟一般法或基本法的沒有錯 好 我們看下一頁\n297881\t307815\t我們來講對新住民的照顧民進黨執政我們努力做更好做更多但是為了成立一個新機關將會\n312036\t336887\t產生了實質的困難而且我更要說他很恐怕是虛有其表我這邊列出來的所有的從生活輔導醫療從就業就學教育文化人身安全保障各項權益所有的執行政策的執行是不是已經散列在各個政府部會\n337967\t360698\t是的 跟委員報告 其實委員所爐列的這些本來就是目前我們的分工各部會分工就以今天要審的發展署的組織法裡頭的第二條的所有的在野黨委員的十一項也是即便你今天成立了這個署你這些業務是不是還是回到這些部會執行\n361983\t384457\t是的跟委員報告其實我們目前召開期制會就是就這些業務依照基本法的內容到底跟其他部會是不是有些要再調整那這樣成立一個新的發展署可是業務是各部會在做這不是很怪嗎所以我們新的發展署也不可能涵蓋其他部會的業務好我們看下一頁確實需要整合\n385598\t399331\t如果說我們需要整合其實現在已經有內政部移民署在進行中而且行政院特別照顧新住民在行政院成立了新住民事務協調匯報就是有一個跨部會的協調機制\n405276\t424627\t院長著急的喔然後來讓各部會對於新住民的服務照顧權益保障能夠具體明確的分工不會彼此打架不會彼此有漢格所以如果成立一個新住民發展署我剛剛已經說了即便有一個新的單位整合的工作現在跨部會的協調彙報已經在做更高位\n434053\t446363\t然後呢執行的政策的各個面向也是交給其他部會去執行那我們成立這個署不是須有其表嗎不是為了成立而成立嗎\n448240\t470227\t最後下一頁因為時間到了我同樣同意剛剛幾位民進黨委員提出來的主張第二條的第三款有關於要考試特殊的權利我們認為要回到考試權的平等的原則而且不要再次違憲侵犯了考試院的權利下一頁\n471267\t495583\t在第二條的第八款有關於我不曉得國民黨民眾黨的委員來加了一個新住民廣播電視之規劃是不是有要成立新住民電視台之類的規劃我想這個又是一個更嚴峻的耗費人力物力他需要更長遠的規劃所以我同意羅美玲委員的版本以媒體來取代廣播電視在這個條款的內容我最後利用30秒的時間我要清楚的\n501407\t522701\t再次呈現新住民在台灣我們努力讓他從新住民成為台灣郎的過渡期限各項的權益民進黨努力做到這是過去沒有做到的包括新住民可以參選立法委員包括學校開設的母語教學課程只要一個新住民選修就給開課\n524102\t540698\t政府政策也已經做到多國語言的翻譯跟服務而且沒有健保的新住民我們給與跟國人一樣享有產檢的補助還有新住民的就學是給予外加名額的協助還有\n541158\t569886\t各項技術考科都可以申請多語言的服務包括就業訓練不需要有任何的費用包括新住民的子女另外國家編列獎學金來幫助他們而且台灣22個縣市都有新住民的家庭服務中心以及新住民的子女如果要回台灣就學教育部已經有旋轉教育免費的方式來協助最後一個新住民在移民署的考試\n570566\t592538\t也有多語類科現在進行是正在進行換言之還沒有成立一個新住民的發展署各項的業務對於新住民的權益保障服務措施我們努力做好做滿所以大家可以好好繼續的深思熟慮如果成立了一個新的組織確實需有起表\n593078\t605929\t又會發生跟其他部會的漢格用一個三級機關凌駕二級機關的權限真的值得大家深思再深思謝謝次長 謝謝主席好 謝謝吳委員\n","txt":"主席請次長謝謝\n大家辛苦了我想也要再一次清楚的說明民進黨我們對於新住民的各項權益我們一直希望能夠協助跨部會的來協助讓新住民成為國人的這個過渡階段各項的保障權益我們都盡可能的做好做滿讓他們能夠融入台灣社會也就是從新住民成為台灣郎\n的這個過渡期間我們該做的政策全方面都進行而且是現在進行式所以在這一個身份過渡的期間我們要協助所有新住民的是要去去標籤化而不是貼標籤化甚至是一次貼上一輩子的標籤\n這是民進黨反對的思維所以說當初在新住民權益保障法是民進黨的主張但是藍白是多數他們還是強硬的用新住民基本法\n用一個基本法的高位階來強行通過了但今天我們面對的問題就是一步錯步步錯問題來了好我們看到這一頁民進黨當初主張的作用法權益保障法\n是優於一個只有宣示效用的基本法民進黨的主張因為是作用法可以快狠準快速的制定各項政策而且執行而且因為是一個作用法我們不會產生跟既有法律漢格的問題更重要的嚴肅的課題是當初我們拆了地雷我們守住了一個可能危及國家安全\n的立法當時被我們發現藍白委員所提的甚至要讓陸配穿上新住民的身份外衣而鬆綁現在陸委會所進行的各項管制也就是陸配極有可能轉換的身份成為新住民的話他就可以入籍年限極有可能達到六變四\n殊途同歸修不同的法但是達到這樣子的政治目的所以這背後的國安危機我們當然要戒慎恐懼要防要反制所以說我們的政策立場我要再一次的再討論新住民發展署的這個時候再次清楚的說明下一頁\n在野党的委员用一个基本法固然提高了法的位阶法的地位但是它却产生了副作用架空了用一个三级的单位会架空二级机关陆委会你看这个法律的关系里头用一个高位阶的基本法它就会凌驾了两岸人民关系条例以及港澳人民关系条例这个是法里面下一页\n在實體面現在65%左右是陸配港澳配偶嘛對不對市長所謂的不管是越南啦印尼這些為大宗的新住民大概只佔35%的比例但是呢如果適用了基本法而且今天我們要一步錯步步錯也讓他成立了新住民發展署的話\n選擇不明跌床架屋百分之六十五的陸委會的陸配港澳配偶現在是陸委會來做各項服務跟管理輔導對不對那今天成立了新住民發展署請問次長這些陸配跟港澳配偶的所有的服務作業誰做謝謝委員我想那個不管是港澳的或者是陸配的規定還是要依照兩岸條例的規定啦\n對 但是新住民基本法的定義就很清楚啦新住民包括港澳跟陸配啊所以是不是就發生了適用法律的漢格跟現行你會用一個錯誤的法律概念跟框架讓一個三級機關架空了二級機關陸委會是不是有這樣子的疑慮是 委員這就是會有法律的未接特別法跟一般法或基本法的沒有錯 好 我們看下一頁\n我們來講對新住民的照顧民進黨執政我們努力做更好做更多但是為了成立一個新機關將會\n產生了實質的困難而且我更要說他很恐怕是虛有其表我這邊列出來的所有的從生活輔導醫療從就業就學教育文化人身安全保障各項權益所有的執行政策的執行是不是已經散列在各個政府部會\n是的 跟委員報告 其實委員所爐列的這些本來就是目前我們的分工各部會分工就以今天要審的發展署的組織法裡頭的第二條的所有的在野黨委員的十一項也是即便你今天成立了這個署你這些業務是不是還是回到這些部會執行\n是的跟委員報告其實我們目前召開期制會就是就這些業務依照基本法的內容到底跟其他部會是不是有些要再調整那這樣成立一個新的發展署可是業務是各部會在做這不是很怪嗎所以我們新的發展署也不可能涵蓋其他部會的業務好我們看下一頁確實需要整合\n如果說我們需要整合其實現在已經有內政部移民署在進行中而且行政院特別照顧新住民在行政院成立了新住民事務協調匯報就是有一個跨部會的協調機制\n院長著急的喔然後來讓各部會對於新住民的服務照顧權益保障能夠具體明確的分工不會彼此打架不會彼此有漢格所以如果成立一個新住民發展署我剛剛已經說了即便有一個新的單位整合的工作現在跨部會的協調彙報已經在做更高位\n然後呢執行的政策的各個面向也是交給其他部會去執行那我們成立這個署不是須有其表嗎不是為了成立而成立嗎\n最後下一頁因為時間到了我同樣同意剛剛幾位民進黨委員提出來的主張第二條的第三款有關於要考試特殊的權利我們認為要回到考試權的平等的原則而且不要再次違憲侵犯了考試院的權利下一頁\n在第二條的第八款有關於我不曉得國民黨民眾黨的委員來加了一個新住民廣播電視之規劃是不是有要成立新住民電視台之類的規劃我想這個又是一個更嚴峻的耗費人力物力他需要更長遠的規劃所以我同意羅美玲委員的版本以媒體來取代廣播電視在這個條款的內容我最後利用30秒的時間我要清楚的\n再次呈現新住民在台灣我們努力讓他從新住民成為台灣郎的過渡期限各項的權益民進黨努力做到這是過去沒有做到的包括新住民可以參選立法委員包括學校開設的母語教學課程只要一個新住民選修就給開課\n政府政策也已經做到多國語言的翻譯跟服務而且沒有健保的新住民我們給與跟國人一樣享有產檢的補助還有新住民的就學是給予外加名額的協助還有\n各項技術考科都可以申請多語言的服務包括就業訓練不需要有任何的費用包括新住民的子女另外國家編列獎學金來幫助他們而且台灣22個縣市都有新住民的家庭服務中心以及新住民的子女如果要回台灣就學教育部已經有旋轉教育免費的方式來協助最後一個新住民在移民署的考試\n也有多語類科現在進行是正在進行換言之還沒有成立一個新住民的發展署各項的業務對於新住民的權益保障服務措施我們努力做好做滿所以大家可以好好繼續的深思熟慮如果成立了一個新的組織確實需有起表\n又會發生跟其他部會的漢格用一個三級機關凌駕二級機關的權限真的值得大家深思再深思謝謝次長 謝謝主席好 謝謝吳委員\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:07.248 --> 00:07.529\n主席請次長謝謝\n\n00:13.403 --> 00:40.982\n大家辛苦了我想也要再一次清楚的說明民進黨我們對於新住民的各項權益我們一直希望能夠協助跨部會的來協助讓新住民成為國人的這個過渡階段各項的保障權益我們都盡可能的做好做滿讓他們能夠融入台灣社會也就是從新住民成為台灣郎\n\n00:42.443 --> 01:04.840\n的這個過渡期間我們該做的政策全方面都進行而且是現在進行式所以在這一個身份過渡的期間我們要協助所有新住民的是要去去標籤化而不是貼標籤化甚至是一次貼上一輩子的標籤\n\n01:06.321 --> 01:20.975\n這是民進黨反對的思維所以說當初在新住民權益保障法是民進黨的主張但是藍白是多數他們還是強硬的用新住民基本法\n\n01:21.812 --> 01:39.367\n用一個基本法的高位階來強行通過了但今天我們面對的問題就是一步錯步步錯問題來了好我們看到這一頁民進黨當初主張的作用法權益保障法\n\n01:40.288 --> 02:02.685\n是優於一個只有宣示效用的基本法民進黨的主張因為是作用法可以快狠準快速的制定各項政策而且執行而且因為是一個作用法我們不會產生跟既有法律漢格的問題更重要的嚴肅的課題是當初我們拆了地雷我們守住了一個可能危及國家安全\n\n02:10.478 --> 02:36.540\n的立法當時被我們發現藍白委員所提的甚至要讓陸配穿上新住民的身份外衣而鬆綁現在陸委會所進行的各項管制也就是陸配極有可能轉換的身份成為新住民的話他就可以入籍年限極有可能達到六變四\n\n02:37.200 --> 03:00.540\n殊途同歸修不同的法但是達到這樣子的政治目的所以這背後的國安危機我們當然要戒慎恐懼要防要反制所以說我們的政策立場我要再一次的再討論新住民發展署的這個時候再次清楚的說明下一頁\n\n03:01.721 --> 03:29.280\n在野党的委员用一个基本法固然提高了法的位阶法的地位但是它却产生了副作用架空了用一个三级的单位会架空二级机关陆委会你看这个法律的关系里头用一个高位阶的基本法它就会凌驾了两岸人民关系条例以及港澳人民关系条例这个是法里面下一页\n\n03:30.444 --> 03:57.513\n在實體面現在65%左右是陸配港澳配偶嘛對不對市長所謂的不管是越南啦印尼這些為大宗的新住民大概只佔35%的比例但是呢如果適用了基本法而且今天我們要一步錯步步錯也讓他成立了新住民發展署的話\n\n03:59.901 --> 04:28.127\n選擇不明跌床架屋百分之六十五的陸委會的陸配港澳配偶現在是陸委會來做各項服務跟管理輔導對不對那今天成立了新住民發展署請問次長這些陸配跟港澳配偶的所有的服務作業誰做謝謝委員我想那個不管是港澳的或者是陸配的規定還是要依照兩岸條例的規定啦\n\n04:29.192 --> 04:56.669\n對但是新住民基本法的定義就很清楚啦新住民包括港澳跟陸配啊所以是不是就發生了適用法律的漢格跟現行你會用一個錯誤的法律概念跟框架讓一個三級機關架空了二級機關陸委會是不是有這樣子的疑慮是委員這就是會有法律的未接特別法跟一般法或基本法的沒有錯好我們看下一頁\n\n04:57.881 --> 05:07.815\n我們來講對新住民的照顧民進黨執政我們努力做更好做更多但是為了成立一個新機關將會\n\n05:12.036 --> 05:36.887\n產生了實質的困難而且我更要說他很恐怕是虛有其表我這邊列出來的所有的從生活輔導醫療從就業就學教育文化人身安全保障各項權益所有的執行政策的執行是不是已經散列在各個政府部會\n\n05:37.967 --> 06:00.698\n是的跟委員報告其實委員所爐列的這些本來就是目前我們的分工各部會分工就以今天要審的發展署的組織法裡頭的第二條的所有的在野黨委員的十一項也是即便你今天成立了這個署你這些業務是不是還是回到這些部會執行\n\n06:01.983 --> 06:24.457\n是的跟委員報告其實我們目前召開期制會就是就這些業務依照基本法的內容到底跟其他部會是不是有些要再調整那這樣成立一個新的發展署可是業務是各部會在做這不是很怪嗎所以我們新的發展署也不可能涵蓋其他部會的業務好我們看下一頁確實需要整合\n\n06:25.598 --> 06:39.331\n如果說我們需要整合其實現在已經有內政部移民署在進行中而且行政院特別照顧新住民在行政院成立了新住民事務協調匯報就是有一個跨部會的協調機制\n\n06:45.276 --> 07:04.627\n院長著急的喔然後來讓各部會對於新住民的服務照顧權益保障能夠具體明確的分工不會彼此打架不會彼此有漢格所以如果成立一個新住民發展署我剛剛已經說了即便有一個新的單位整合的工作現在跨部會的協調彙報已經在做更高位\n\n07:14.053 --> 07:26.363\n然後呢執行的政策的各個面向也是交給其他部會去執行那我們成立這個署不是須有其表嗎不是為了成立而成立嗎\n\n07:28.240 --> 07:50.227\n最後下一頁因為時間到了我同樣同意剛剛幾位民進黨委員提出來的主張第二條的第三款有關於要考試特殊的權利我們認為要回到考試權的平等的原則而且不要再次違憲侵犯了考試院的權利下一頁\n\n07:51.267 --> 08:15.583\n在第二條的第八款有關於我不曉得國民黨民眾黨的委員來加了一個新住民廣播電視之規劃是不是有要成立新住民電視台之類的規劃我想這個又是一個更嚴峻的耗費人力物力他需要更長遠的規劃所以我同意羅美玲委員的版本以媒體來取代廣播電視在這個條款的內容我最後利用30秒的時間我要清楚的\n\n08:21.407 --> 08:42.701\n再次呈現新住民在台灣我們努力讓他從新住民成為台灣郎的過渡期限各項的權益民進黨努力做到這是過去沒有做到的包括新住民可以參選立法委員包括學校開設的母語教學課程只要一個新住民選修就給開課\n\n08:44.102 --> 09:00.698\n政府政策也已經做到多國語言的翻譯跟服務而且沒有健保的新住民我們給與跟國人一樣享有產檢的補助還有新住民的就學是給予外加名額的協助還有\n\n09:01.158 --> 09:29.886\n各項技術考科都可以申請多語言的服務包括就業訓練不需要有任何的費用包括新住民的子女另外國家編列獎學金來幫助他們而且台灣22個縣市都有新住民的家庭服務中心以及新住民的子女如果要回台灣就學教育部已經有旋轉教育免費的方式來協助最後一個新住民在移民署的考試\n\n09:30.566 --> 09:52.538\n也有多語類科現在進行是正在進行換言之還沒有成立一個新住民的發展署各項的業務對於新住民的權益保障服務措施我們努力做好做滿所以大家可以好好繼續的深思熟慮如果成立了一個新的組織確實需有起表\n\n09:53.078 --> 10:05.929\n又會發生跟其他部會的漢格用一個三級機關凌駕二級機關的權限真的值得大家深思再深思謝謝次長謝謝主席好謝謝吳委員\n\n","segments":[{"start":7.248,"end":7.529,"text":"主席請次長謝謝"},{"start":13.403,"end":40.982,"text":"大家辛苦了我想也要再一次清楚的說明民進黨我們對於新住民的各項權益我們一直希望能夠協助跨部會的來協助讓新住民成為國人的這個過渡階段各項的保障權益我們都盡可能的做好做滿讓他們能夠融入台灣社會也就是從新住民成為台灣郎"},{"start":42.443,"end":64.84,"text":"的這個過渡期間我們該做的政策全方面都進行而且是現在進行式所以在這一個身份過渡的期間我們要協助所有新住民的是要去去標籤化而不是貼標籤化甚至是一次貼上一輩子的標籤"},{"start":66.321,"end":80.975,"text":"這是民進黨反對的思維所以說當初在新住民權益保障法是民進黨的主張但是藍白是多數他們還是強硬的用新住民基本法"},{"start":81.812,"end":99.367,"text":"用一個基本法的高位階來強行通過了但今天我們面對的問題就是一步錯步步錯問題來了好我們看到這一頁民進黨當初主張的作用法權益保障法"},{"start":100.288,"end":122.685,"text":"是優於一個只有宣示效用的基本法民進黨的主張因為是作用法可以快狠準快速的制定各項政策而且執行而且因為是一個作用法我們不會產生跟既有法律漢格的問題更重要的嚴肅的課題是當初我們拆了地雷我們守住了一個可能危及國家安全"},{"start":130.478,"end":156.54,"text":"的立法當時被我們發現藍白委員所提的甚至要讓陸配穿上新住民的身份外衣而鬆綁現在陸委會所進行的各項管制也就是陸配極有可能轉換的身份成為新住民的話他就可以入籍年限極有可能達到六變四"},{"start":157.2,"end":180.54,"text":"殊途同歸修不同的法但是達到這樣子的政治目的所以這背後的國安危機我們當然要戒慎恐懼要防要反制所以說我們的政策立場我要再一次的再討論新住民發展署的這個時候再次清楚的說明下一頁"},{"start":181.721,"end":209.28,"text":"在野党的委员用一个基本法固然提高了法的位阶法的地位但是它却产生了副作用架空了用一个三级的单位会架空二级机关陆委会你看这个法律的关系里头用一个高位阶的基本法它就会凌驾了两岸人民关系条例以及港澳人民关系条例这个是法里面下一页"},{"start":210.444,"end":237.513,"text":"在實體面現在65%左右是陸配港澳配偶嘛對不對市長所謂的不管是越南啦印尼這些為大宗的新住民大概只佔35%的比例但是呢如果適用了基本法而且今天我們要一步錯步步錯也讓他成立了新住民發展署的話"},{"start":239.901,"end":268.127,"text":"選擇不明跌床架屋百分之六十五的陸委會的陸配港澳配偶現在是陸委會來做各項服務跟管理輔導對不對那今天成立了新住民發展署請問次長這些陸配跟港澳配偶的所有的服務作業誰做謝謝委員我想那個不管是港澳的或者是陸配的規定還是要依照兩岸條例的規定啦"},{"start":269.192,"end":296.669,"text":"對 但是新住民基本法的定義就很清楚啦新住民包括港澳跟陸配啊所以是不是就發生了適用法律的漢格跟現行你會用一個錯誤的法律概念跟框架讓一個三級機關架空了二級機關陸委會是不是有這樣子的疑慮是 委員這就是會有法律的未接特別法跟一般法或基本法的沒有錯 好 我們看下一頁"},{"start":297.881,"end":307.815,"text":"我們來講對新住民的照顧民進黨執政我們努力做更好做更多但是為了成立一個新機關將會"},{"start":312.036,"end":336.887,"text":"產生了實質的困難而且我更要說他很恐怕是虛有其表我這邊列出來的所有的從生活輔導醫療從就業就學教育文化人身安全保障各項權益所有的執行政策的執行是不是已經散列在各個政府部會"},{"start":337.967,"end":360.698,"text":"是的 跟委員報告 其實委員所爐列的這些本來就是目前我們的分工各部會分工就以今天要審的發展署的組織法裡頭的第二條的所有的在野黨委員的十一項也是即便你今天成立了這個署你這些業務是不是還是回到這些部會執行"},{"start":361.983,"end":384.457,"text":"是的跟委員報告其實我們目前召開期制會就是就這些業務依照基本法的內容到底跟其他部會是不是有些要再調整那這樣成立一個新的發展署可是業務是各部會在做這不是很怪嗎所以我們新的發展署也不可能涵蓋其他部會的業務好我們看下一頁確實需要整合"},{"start":385.598,"end":399.331,"text":"如果說我們需要整合其實現在已經有內政部移民署在進行中而且行政院特別照顧新住民在行政院成立了新住民事務協調匯報就是有一個跨部會的協調機制"},{"start":405.276,"end":424.627,"text":"院長著急的喔然後來讓各部會對於新住民的服務照顧權益保障能夠具體明確的分工不會彼此打架不會彼此有漢格所以如果成立一個新住民發展署我剛剛已經說了即便有一個新的單位整合的工作現在跨部會的協調彙報已經在做更高位"},{"start":434.053,"end":446.363,"text":"然後呢執行的政策的各個面向也是交給其他部會去執行那我們成立這個署不是須有其表嗎不是為了成立而成立嗎"},{"start":448.24,"end":470.227,"text":"最後下一頁因為時間到了我同樣同意剛剛幾位民進黨委員提出來的主張第二條的第三款有關於要考試特殊的權利我們認為要回到考試權的平等的原則而且不要再次違憲侵犯了考試院的權利下一頁"},{"start":471.267,"end":495.583,"text":"在第二條的第八款有關於我不曉得國民黨民眾黨的委員來加了一個新住民廣播電視之規劃是不是有要成立新住民電視台之類的規劃我想這個又是一個更嚴峻的耗費人力物力他需要更長遠的規劃所以我同意羅美玲委員的版本以媒體來取代廣播電視在這個條款的內容我最後利用30秒的時間我要清楚的"},{"start":501.407,"end":522.701,"text":"再次呈現新住民在台灣我們努力讓他從新住民成為台灣郎的過渡期限各項的權益民進黨努力做到這是過去沒有做到的包括新住民可以參選立法委員包括學校開設的母語教學課程只要一個新住民選修就給開課"},{"start":524.102,"end":540.698,"text":"政府政策也已經做到多國語言的翻譯跟服務而且沒有健保的新住民我們給與跟國人一樣享有產檢的補助還有新住民的就學是給予外加名額的協助還有"},{"start":541.158,"end":569.886,"text":"各項技術考科都可以申請多語言的服務包括就業訓練不需要有任何的費用包括新住民的子女另外國家編列獎學金來幫助他們而且台灣22個縣市都有新住民的家庭服務中心以及新住民的子女如果要回台灣就學教育部已經有旋轉教育免費的方式來協助最後一個新住民在移民署的考試"},{"start":570.566,"end":592.538,"text":"也有多語類科現在進行是正在進行換言之還沒有成立一個新住民的發展署各項的業務對於新住民的權益保障服務措施我們努力做好做滿所以大家可以好好繼續的深思熟慮如果成立了一個新的組織確實需有起表"},{"start":593.078,"end":605.929,"text":"又會發生跟其他部會的漢格用一個三級機關凌駕二級機關的權限真的值得大家深思再深思謝謝次長 謝謝主席好 謝謝吳委員"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":583,"blocks":[["吳委員思瑤：（10時54分）主席，請次長，謝謝。"],["吳次長堂安：委員好。"],["吳委員思瑤：大家辛苦了！我也要再一次清楚地說明，民進黨對於新住民的各項權益，我們一直希望能夠跨部會來協助，讓新住民成為國人的過渡階段中各項的保障權益，我們都儘可能的做好做滿，讓他們能夠融入臺灣社會。也就是從新住民成為臺灣人的過渡期間，我們該做的政策全方面都進行，而且是現在進行式。在這一個身分過渡期間，我們要協助所有新住民「去標籤化」，而不是貼標籤化，甚至是一次貼上一輩子的標籤，這是民進黨反對的思維。當初新住民權益保障法是民進黨的主張，但藍白是多數，他們還是強硬的用新住民基本法，用一個基本法的高位階來強行通過了，但今天我們面對的問題就是一步錯、步步錯，問題來了。","我們看到這一頁，民進黨當初主張的作用法、權益保障法是優於一個只有宣誓效用的基本法，民進黨的主張因為是作用法，可以快狠準、快速地制定各項政策並執行，而且因為是一個作用法，我們不會產生跟既有法律扞格的問題。更重要、嚴肅的課題是當初我們拆了地雷，我們守住了一個可能危及國家安全的立法。當時被我們發現藍白委員所提的，甚至要讓陸配穿上新住民的身分外衣而鬆綁現在陸委會所進行的各項管制，也就是陸配極有可能轉換身分成為新住民，他的入籍年限極有可能達到6年變4年，殊途同歸，修不同的法，但是達到這樣的政治目的，這背後的國安危機，我們當然要戒慎恐懼、要防、要反制。所以我們的政策立場，我要再一次在討論新住民發展署的這個時候，再次清楚地說明。","在野黨委員用一個基本法，固然提高法的位階、法的地位，但是它卻產生了副作用，用一個三級單位會架空二級機關陸委會。你看法律的關係裡頭，用一個高位階的基本法，就會凌駕兩岸人民關係條例以及港澳人民關係條例，這是在法理面。在實體面，現在65%左右是陸配、港澳配偶，對不對？次長。不管是越南、印尼這些為大宗的新住民，大概只占35%的比例，但是如果適用了基本法，而且今天我們要一步錯、步步錯，也讓它成立新住民發展署的話，權責不明，疊床架屋。65%的陸配、港澳配偶，現在是陸委會來做各項服務跟管理輔導，對不對？"],["吳次長堂安：是。"],["吳委員思瑤：今天成立新住民發展署，請問次長，這些陸配跟港澳配偶所有的服務作業，誰做？"],["吳次長堂安：謝謝委員，不管是港澳或者是陸配的規定，還是要依照兩岸條例的規定。"],["吳委員思瑤：對！但是新住民基本法的定義就很清楚，新住民including港澳跟陸配，所以是不是就發生適用法律的扞格？你會用錯誤的法律概念跟框架，讓一個三級機關架空二級機關陸委會，是不是有這樣的疑慮？"],["吳次長堂安：是。委員，這會有法律的位階，即特別法跟一般法或基本法的相互牴觸。"],["吳委員思瑤：沒有錯。對新住民的照顧，民進黨執政我們努力做更好、做更多，但是為了成立一個新機關，將會產生實質的困難，而且我更要說，它恐怕是虛有其表。我這邊列出來所有的，從生活輔導、醫療、就業、就學、教育、文化、人身安全保障等各項權益，所有政策的執行是不是已經散列在各個政府部會？"],["吳次長堂安：是的，跟委員報告，其實委員所臚列的這些，本來就是我們目前各部會的分工。"],["吳委員思瑤：就以今天要審的發展署組織法第二條來說，即便今天成立了這個署，所有在野黨委員提的十一項，這些業務是不是還是回到這些部會執行？"],["吳次長堂安：是的，跟委員報告，其實我們目前召開7次會，就是就這些業務討論，依照基本法的內容，到底跟其他部會是不是有些要再調整……"],["吳委員思瑤：成立一個新的發展署，可是業務是各部會在做，這不是很怪嗎？"],["吳次長堂安：新的發展署也不可能涵蓋其他部會的業務。"],["吳委員思瑤：好，確實需要整合，如果我們需要整合，其實現在內政部移民署已經在進行中，而且行政院特別照顧新住民，在行政院成立了新住民事務協調會報，就是一個跨部會的協調機制，是院長召集的，讓各部會對於新住民的服務、照顧、權益保障能夠具體明確的分工，不會彼此打架，不會彼此有扞格。所以如果成立一個新住民發展署，我剛剛已經說了，即便有一個新的單位，整合的工作現在跨部會的協調會報已經在做，還更高位，然後執行政策的各個面向也是交給其他部會去執行，那我們成立這個署不是虛有其表嗎？不是為了成立而成立嗎？","最後，因為時間到了，我同樣同意剛剛幾位民進黨委員提出來的主張。第二條第三款，有關考試要有特殊的權利，我們認為要回到考試權的平等原則，而且不要再次違憲，侵犯了考試院的權力。在第二條第八款，我不曉得國民黨、民眾黨的委員加了一個「新住民廣播電視之規劃」，是不是有要成立新住民電視臺之類的規劃？我想這又是一個更嚴峻的，耗費人力、物力的事，它需要更長遠的規劃，所以我同意羅美玲委員的版本，在這個條款的內容，以「媒體」來取代「廣播電視」。","我最後要利用30秒的時間再次清楚地呈現，新住民在臺灣，我們努力讓他從新住民成為臺灣人的過渡期間，擁有各項的權益，民進黨努力做到了，這是過去沒有做到的，包括新住民可以參選立法委員，包括學校開設的母語教學課程，只要一個新住民選修就開課。政府政策也已經做到多國語言的翻譯跟服務，而且沒有健保的新住民，我們給予跟國人一樣的措施，享有產檢的補助。還有，新住民的就學是給予外加名額來協助，各項技術考科都可以申請多語言的服務，包括就業訓練，不需要有任何的費用，也包括新住民的子女，國家也有編列獎學金來幫助他們，而且臺灣22個縣市都有新住民的家庭服務中心，以及新住民的子女如果要回臺灣就學，教育部已經有銜轉教育以免費的方式來協助。最後一個，新住民在移民署的考試也有多語類科，這是現在進行式，換言之，還沒有成立新住民發展署，各項的業務對於新住民的權益保障、服務措施，我們已經努力做好、做滿，所以大家可以繼續好好地深思熟慮，如果成立了一個新的組織，卻是虛有其表，又會發生跟其他部會的扞格，用一個三級機關凌駕二級機關的權限，真的值得大家深思再深思。謝謝次長，謝謝主席。"],["主席：謝謝吳委員。","下一位請李柏毅委員發言，在李柏毅委員發言完畢之後，我們依照先前宣告的，休息5分鐘。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":114,"meet_id":"聯席會議-11-3-36,15-3","speakers":["吳宗憲","麥玉珍","羅美玲","張智倫","黃國昌","蘇巧慧","王義川","黃捷","張宏陸","王美惠","陳培瑜","沈發惠","吳思瑤","李柏毅","羅智強","許宇甄","翁曉玲","王鴻薇","莊瑞雄","葉元之","徐欣瑩","牛煦庭","吳琪銘"],"page_start":57,"meetingDate":["2025-06-19"],"gazette_id":"1146101","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1146101_00003"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期司法及法制、內政委員會第3次聯席會議紀錄","content":"一、併案審查(一)委員鄭天財 Sra Kacaw 等21人、(二)台灣民眾黨黨團、(三)委員張智倫等17\n人、(四)委員葉元之等21人及(五)委員羅美玲等18人分別擬具「內政部組織法第五條條文修正草\n案」案；二、併案審查(一)台灣民眾黨黨團、(二)委員鄭天財 Sra Kacaw 等21人、(三)國民黨黨\n團、(四)委員張智倫等17人、(五)委員葉元之等21人及(六)委員羅美玲等18人分別擬具「內政部\n新住民發展署組織法草案」案","agenda_id":"1146101_00002"}}}