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{\"word\": \"本\", \"start\": 127.575, \"end\": 127.715, \"score\": 0.975}, {\"word\": \"現\"}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 127.715, \"end\": 127.875, \"score\": 0.866}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 127.875, \"end\": 128.055, \"score\": 0.974}, {\"word\": \"卡\", \"start\": 128.055, \"end\": 128.215, \"score\": 0.966}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 128.215, \"end\": 128.375, \"score\": 0.915}, {\"word\": \"汽\", \"start\": 128.375, \"end\": 129.636, \"score\": 0.9}, {\"word\": \"車\"}, {\"word\": \"關\"}, {\"word\": \"稅\"}, {\"word\": \"而\", \"start\": 129.636, \"end\": 129.716, \"score\": 0.791}, {\"word\": \"且\", \"start\": 129.716, \"end\": 129.856, \"score\": 0.875}, {\"word\": \"日\", \"start\": 129.856, \"end\": 129.976, \"score\": 0.984}, {\"word\": \"本\", \"start\": 129.976, \"end\": 130.096, \"score\": 0.792}, {\"word\": \"很\", \"start\": 130.096, \"end\": 130.256, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"多\", \"start\": 130.256, \"end\": 130.516, \"score\": 0.829}, {\"word\": \"東\"}, {\"word\": \"西\", \"start\": 130.516, \"end\": 130.596, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 130.596, \"end\": 130.756, \"score\": 0.872}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 130.756, \"end\": 131.116, \"score\": 0.891}, {\"word\": \"讓\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 131.116, \"end\": 131.396, \"score\": 0.962}, {\"word\": \"因\", \"start\": 131.396, \"end\": 131.556, \"score\": 0.633}, {\"word\": \"為\"}, {\"word\": \"他\", \"start\": 131.556, \"end\": 131.796, \"score\": 0.892}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"知\", \"start\": 131.796, \"end\": 131.916, \"score\": 0.867}, {\"word\": \"道\", \"start\": 131.916, \"end\": 132.377, \"score\": 0.872}, {\"word\": \"說\"}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"站\", \"start\": 132.377, \"end\": 132.537, \"score\": 0.814}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 132.537, \"end\": 132.717, \"score\": 0.987}, {\"word\": \"日\", \"start\": 132.717, \"end\": 132.897, \"score\": 0.891}, {\"word\": \"本\", \"start\": 132.897, \"end\": 133.077, \"score\": 0.963}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 133.077, \"end\": 133.237, \"score\": 0.982}, {\"word\": \"角\", \"start\": 133.237, \"end\": 133.517, \"score\": 0.987}, {\"word\": \"度\", \"start\": 133.517, \"end\": 133.737, \"score\": 0.99}, {\"word\": \"去\", \"start\": 133.737, \"end\": 133.877, \"score\": 0.745}, {\"word\": \"跟\", \"start\": 133.877, \"end\": 133.997, \"score\": 0.933}, {\"word\": \"美\", \"start\": 133.997, \"end\": 134.017, \"score\": 0.928}, {\"word\": \"國\"}, {\"word\": \"談\"}, {\"word\": \"判\", \"start\": 134.017, \"end\": 134.037, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"關\"}, {\"word\": \"稅\"}]}, {\"start\": 135.658, \"end\": 154.549, \"text\": \"那有的時候你適時的揭露一些具體的細節讓國內可以討論實際上國內的民意也可以成為政府對外談判的一個籌碼跟後盾而不是說好像我們現在針對美國談判一切都是以美國為主美國要我們怎麼樣我們就怎麼樣沒有站在台灣的利益去做這個事情\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 135.658, \"end\": 135.798, \"score\": 0.845}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 135.798, \"end\": 135.938, \"score\": 0.718}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 135.938, \"end\": 136.178, \"score\": 0.761}, 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{\"word\": \"利\", \"start\": 153.448, \"end\": 153.608, \"score\": 0.888}, {\"word\": \"益\", \"start\": 153.608, \"end\": 153.788, \"score\": 0.84}, {\"word\": \"去\", \"start\": 153.788, \"end\": 153.968, \"score\": 0.876}, {\"word\": \"做\", \"start\": 153.968, \"end\": 154.349, \"score\": 0.811}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"事\", \"start\": 154.349, \"end\": 154.529, \"score\": 0.813}, {\"word\": \"情\", \"start\": 154.529, \"end\": 154.549, \"score\": 0.975}]}, {\"start\": 155.089, \"end\": 183.412, \"text\": \"那其實這個是沒有 你現在就都不能講嘛都是講一些口號嘛 空洞跟其他國家都不一樣嘛所以我們現在好像大家在等開盲盒一樣7月8號告訴大家到時候能夠接受不能接受也已經談完了其實我覺得這是一件很恐怖的事另外再問一下因為潘孟安總統府秘書長6月初的時候到美國參加一個氣候的一個能源永續能源會議嘛當時可能也有觸及到\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 155.089, \"end\": 155.229, \"score\": 0.856}, {\"word\": \"其\", \"start\": 155.229, \"end\": 155.73, \"score\": 0.808}, {\"word\": \"實\"}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 155.73, \"end\": 155.89, \"score\": 0.94}, {\"word\": \"沒\", 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\"end\": 526.944, \"score\": 0.681}, {\"word\": \"啦\", \"start\": 526.944, \"end\": 527.244, \"score\": 0.8}, {\"word\": \"然\", \"start\": 527.244, \"end\": 527.264, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"後\", \"start\": 527.264, \"end\": 527.284, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"適\"}, {\"word\": \"時\"}, {\"word\": \"揭\", \"start\": 527.284, \"end\": 527.344, \"score\": 0.665}, {\"word\": \"露\", \"start\": 527.344, \"end\": 527.364, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"啦\", \"start\": 527.364, \"end\": 527.384, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 527.384, \"end\": 527.464, \"score\": 0.509}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 527.464, \"end\": 527.564, \"score\": 0.801}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 527.564, \"end\": 527.584, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 527.584, \"end\": 527.604, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:00,130 --> 00:00:00,737\n麻煩請外交部長謝謝\n\n2\n00:00:09,836 --> 00:00:36,473\n部長我先來關心一下台美關稅談判就是其實最近消息非常的少那90天的那個暫停期大概是要7月8號就到了我是看到最近是外交部次長陳明齊他可能是談判團的代表之一他是在5月30號的時候媒體報導說有信心談到一個好完整又漂亮的協議他是非常充滿信心而且談到如果別人是10%的話我們是有機會可以談到10%以下\n\n3\n00:00:38,334 --> 00:01:06,749\n請問一下那個部長現在因為只剩下18天7月8號就到了嘛那目前大概我們跟美國談判的狀況是如何跟委員報告在曾立軍副院長的這個主持下目前台美有關於關稅的談判都順利進行中那這一方希望我們提出最好的方案我們也已經提出他們也覺得相當完整他希望我們提出對他們來說最好的方案對彼此當然也要對我們最好那對我們好的地方在哪裡\n\n4\n00:01:07,869 --> 00:01:32,105\n我們就是希望說透過這一次的這個關稅的談判包括我們能夠建構台美的這個經貿還有科技產業的合作更緊密的關係那關稅的部分這樣子啊部長因為你回答很空洞我來問因為那個陳明祺也有提到透過談判希望能夠釐清美方具體的關切事項請問一下美方具體的關切事項是什麼\n\n5\n00:01:34,091 --> 00:01:51,980\n其實他們都有公開講至少除了關稅之外非關稅障礙包括出口管制包括投資包括採購既然都已經公開講了為什麼我們還不斷談判去釐清美方具體關切事項他們關切事項現在很具體了因為那是5月30號現在的情形應該是很多的進展譬如說是什麼\n\n6\n00:01:56,870 --> 00:02:14,037\n我覺得很奇怪一件事情比如說像日本跟美國談判他們很多細節其實他們國內大家都掌握例如說像美國跟日本現在就卡在汽車關稅而且日本很多東西是不讓的因為他們知道說會站在日本的角度去跟美國談判關稅\n\n7\n00:02:15,658 --> 00:02:34,549\n那有的時候你適時的揭露一些具體的細節讓國內可以討論實際上國內的民意也可以成為政府對外談判的一個籌碼跟後盾而不是說好像我們現在針對美國談判一切都是以美國為主美國要我們怎麼樣我們就怎麼樣沒有站在台灣的利益去做這個事情\n\n8\n00:02:35,089 --> 00:03:03,412\n那其實這個是沒有你現在就都不能講嘛都是講一些口號嘛空洞跟其他國家都不一樣嘛所以我們現在好像大家在等開盲盒一樣7月8號告訴大家到時候能夠接受不能接受也已經談完了其實我覺得這是一件很恐怖的事另外再問一下因為潘孟安總統府秘書長6月初的時候到美國參加一個氣候的一個能源永續能源會議嘛當時可能也有觸及到\n\n9\n00:03:04,605 --> 00:03:27,993\n阿拉斯加液化天然氣設施的投資案那這兩天我看到總統府一直有消息放出來因為都是不具名啊就說哎呀潘孟安去有助深化台美關係進一步讓雙邊的關係更好但是我非常好奇一件事情就是政府有沒有評估過假設到時候要去投資阿拉斯加這個液化天然氣設施這個到底是好還是不好\n\n10\n00:03:29,005 --> 00:03:55,035\n不知道部長您個人看法因為在阿拉斯加州長三月來台灣參加美台商會的忘年會的時候其實跟中油就有簽一個合作的意向書我會增加對美國台南氣的採購也會評估投資我希望政府可以好好評估這件事情是美國有點明台灣日本韓國說希望投資這是一兆多的一個投資案\n\n11\n00:03:55,675 --> 00:04:08,601\n那台灣如果要投資的話大概要負擔大概一百億美金這是一些公開資訊講的十分之一啦他們提到的一兆四的話十分之一的話就是一千四百億嘛四十四億啦\n\n12\n00:04:11,323 --> 00:04:17,211\n44億美金啦我剛剛講台幣啦總投資額的4分之1是這個數字啦那問題是在這個是反正就是很大一筆錢啦就是大概100億美金你說44億美金嗎我按照他們提的方案的總額的資料我只要跟委員講這個數字\n\n13\n00:04:27,765 --> 00:04:44,406\n但是有一些資料是說一百億啦沒關係這個但不管怎麼樣都是一個很大的一筆錢可是我看到像在日本喔因為他有點名日本但日本其實國內對這個討論很熱烈而且很多人是持反對意見比如說上百個團體都有寫信給日本首相認為說這個投資案\n\n14\n00:04:45,948 --> 00:05:07,769\n是一個最昂貴的一個天然氣開發案而且它對於環境有很大破壞因為它從那個阿拉斯加從那邊拉一個線下來拉一個管線下來它必須要突破八百條河流還有三座山脈施工不易也會破壞很多野生動物的保護區會影響到一些動物的休息所以\n\n15\n00:05:11,574 --> 00:05:25,633\n國內是很反對日本的官員也多次提出不同的看法日本的保險公司說他們呼籲希望不要對類似的投資案做承保而且他們也希望銀行不要做融資所以這個案子在日本國內是討論很熱烈\n\n16\n00:05:27,515 --> 00:05:49,522\n在我們台灣呢沒有任何利弊得失的分析就是說就像陳儒部長你講的我們已經簽了意向書了好像一句話就帶過可是我們有沒有去評估第一個他到底有沒有破壞生態第二個這個投資我們有沒有辦法回本如果沒有辦法回本純粹是美國點名我們我們就去投資那請問站在台灣的立場我們換到什麼\n\n17\n00:05:50,578 --> 00:06:18,863\n外交或經貿都要以本國利益為出發不是說一直給現在我覺得台灣的政府都沒有看清楚川普的個性川普不是說你對他擺班的這個對他好然後讓他予取予求他就會對你比較好這一波美國跟各國談判我們都看得非常清楚可是我剛剛聽到部長您的回答都是說我們已經提出一個美方覺得很好的方案\n\n18\n00:06:19,503 --> 00:06:26,578\n或者是我們投資這個天然氣美國也會很高興好像都沒有站在台灣的角度去看這個事情有啦這是前提啦\n\n19\n00:06:27,421 --> 00:06:49,737\n台灣優先啦那請問一下你們有沒有那部長因為這個投資天然氣我看到總統府潘孟安秘書長去的時候那你們也都很歡迎啊可不可以至少請政府提出一個分析報告出來嘛在投資上面還有就是因為接下來這個投資之後呢未來政府也要增加對美國天然氣的採購那對美國天然氣採購會不會又是變成說價格高運輸費然後又反過來發電成本提高我們電價又上漲\n\n20\n00:06:57,142 --> 00:07:13,347\n我覺得這一系列都要評估啦對都要評估都要評估啦不是說每次都大外宣哎呀潘孟安去了好棒喔我們可以投資天然氣因為台美關係又更進一步好棒喔然後台美關稅談判喔好棒喔我們一定可以談出一個很棒的方案但是我們到底得到什麼\n\n21\n00:07:14,468 --> 00:07:32,986\n我們都不知道我是真的很希望政府那個部長啦因為你也算國安團隊一環啦新冒談判你們也有參與可不可以回去建議一下適時的揭露這談判的進度讓國內了解讓大家討論讓大家成為政府的後盾啦不要7月8號開盲盒啦可以嗎\n\n22\n00:07:34,326 --> 00:07:44,659\n您的意見我都會反映你也是部長你也可以有一定的決策權不過如果委員讓我講一下以阿拉斯加天然氣的採購跟投資你看最近中東戰爭\n\n23\n00:07:46,243 --> 00:08:09,964\n那能源需不需要有安全跟韌性你看喔包括那個Duckworth這個參議員他來台灣喔他認為說只要是美國輸出的油氣美國他要保護他的航行安全我想這個周副委員在這裡就是說這一種屬於不只是能源經濟也是個安全議題\n\n24\n00:08:11,345 --> 00:08:24,214\n所以我們怎麼樣站在國家最大的利益但是一定要尊重中油因為它作為採購中油也是配合國安團隊或什麼去投資所以我說你提出一個分析報告你可以把你的意見剛剛講的納進來我跟委員講其實中油評估已經好幾年了\n\n25\n00:08:33,519 --> 00:08:47,604\n因為我覺得大家也不要斷章取義因為這個是一個整體的計畫就國安的角度當然大家都支持但是其實比如說跟澳洲去買也是八天天然氣就到台灣他有很多替代方案所以實際上我覺得是需要一個完整評估啦然後適時揭露啦好不好好謝謝\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n130\t737\t麻煩請外交部長 謝謝\n9836\t36473\t部長我先來關心一下台美關稅談判就是其實最近消息非常的少那90天的那個暫停期大概是要7月8號就到了我是看到最近是外交部次長陳明齊他可能是談判團的代表之一他是在5月30號的時候媒體報導說有信心談到一個好完整又漂亮的協議他是非常充滿信心而且談到如果別人是10%的話我們是有機會可以談到10%以下\n38334\t66749\t請問一下那個部長現在因為只剩下18天7月8號就到了嘛那目前大概我們跟美國談判的狀況是如何跟委員報告在曾立軍副院長的這個主持下目前台美有關於關稅的談判都順利進行中那這一方希望我們提出最好的方案我們也已經提出他們也覺得相當完整他希望我們提出對他們來說最好的方案對彼此當然也要對我們最好那對我們好的地方在哪裡\n67869\t92105\t我們就是希望說透過這一次的這個關稅的談判包括我們能夠建構台美的這個經貿還有科技產業的合作更緊密的關係那關稅的部分這樣子啊部長因為你回答很空洞我來問因為那個陳明祺也有提到透過談判希望能夠釐清美方具體的關切事項請問一下美方具體的關切事項是什麼\n94091\t111980\t其實他們都有公開講至少除了關稅之外非關稅障礙包括出口管制包括投資包括採購既然都已經公開講了為什麼我們還不斷談判去釐清美方具體關切事項他們關切事項現在很具體了因為那是5月30號現在的情形應該是很多的進展譬如說是什麼\n116870\t134037\t我覺得很奇怪一件事情比如說像日本跟美國談判他們很多細節其實他們國內大家都掌握例如說像美國跟日本現在就卡在汽車關稅而且日本很多東西是不讓的因為他們知道說會站在日本的角度去跟美國談判關稅\n135658\t154549\t那有的時候你適時的揭露一些具體的細節讓國內可以討論實際上國內的民意也可以成為政府對外談判的一個籌碼跟後盾而不是說好像我們現在針對美國談判一切都是以美國為主美國要我們怎麼樣我們就怎麼樣沒有站在台灣的利益去做這個事情\n155089\t183412\t那其實這個是沒有 你現在就都不能講嘛都是講一些口號嘛 空洞跟其他國家都不一樣嘛所以我們現在好像大家在等開盲盒一樣7月8號告訴大家到時候能夠接受不能接受也已經談完了其實我覺得這是一件很恐怖的事另外再問一下因為潘孟安總統府秘書長6月初的時候到美國參加一個氣候的一個能源永續能源會議嘛當時可能也有觸及到\n184605\t207993\t阿拉斯加液化天然氣設施的投資案那這兩天我看到總統府一直有消息放出來因為都是不具名啊就說 哎呀 潘孟安去有助深化台美關係進一步讓雙邊的關係更好但是我非常好奇一件事情就是政府有沒有評估過假設到時候要去投資阿拉斯加這個液化天然氣設施這個到底是好還是不好\n209005\t235035\t不知道部長您個人看法因為在阿拉斯加州長三月來台灣參加美台商會的忘年會的時候其實跟中油就有簽一個合作的意向書我會增加對美國台南氣的採購也會評估投資我希望政府可以好好評估這件事情是美國有點明台灣日本韓國說希望投資這是一兆多的一個投資案\n235675\t248601\t那台灣如果要投資的話大概要負擔大概一百億美金這是一些公開資訊講的十分之一啦他們提到的一兆四的話十分之一的話就是一千四百億嘛四十四億啦\n251323\t257211\t44億美金啦我剛剛講台幣啦總投資額的4分之1是這個數字啦那問題是在這個是反正就是很大一筆錢啦就是大概100億美金你說44億美金嗎我按照他們提的方案的總額的資料我只要跟委員講這個數字\n267765\t284406\t但是有一些資料是說一百億啦沒關係這個但不管怎麼樣都是一個很大的一筆錢可是我看到像在日本喔因為他有點名日本但日本其實國內對這個討論很熱烈而且很多人是持反對意見比如說上百個團體都有寫信給日本首相認為說這個投資案\n285948\t307769\t是一個最昂貴的一個天然氣開發案而且它對於環境有很大破壞因為它從那個阿拉斯加從那邊拉一個線下來拉一個管線下來它必須要突破八百條河流還有三座山脈施工不易也會破壞很多野生動物的保護區會影響到一些動物的休息所以\n311574\t325633\t國內是很反對日本的官員也多次提出不同的看法日本的保險公司說他們呼籲希望不要對類似的投資案做承保而且他們也希望銀行不要做融資所以這個案子在日本國內是討論很熱烈\n327515\t349522\t在我們台灣呢 沒有任何利弊得失的分析就是說 就像陳儒部長你講的我們已經簽了意向書了 好像一句話就帶過可是我們有沒有去評估 第一個 他到底有沒有破壞生態第二個 這個投資 我們有沒有辦法回本如果沒有辦法回本 純粹是美國點名我們 我們就去投資那請問站在台灣的立場 我們換到什麼\n350578\t378863\t外交或經貿都要以本國利益為出發不是說一直給現在我覺得台灣的政府都沒有看清楚川普的個性川普不是說你對他擺班的這個對他好然後讓他予取予求他就會對你比較好這一波美國跟各國談判我們都看得非常清楚可是我剛剛聽到部長您的回答都是說我們已經提出一個美方覺得很好的方案\n379503\t386578\t或者是我們投資這個天然氣美國也會很高興好像都沒有站在台灣的角度去看這個事情有啦 這是前提啦\n387421\t409737\t台灣優先啦那請問一下你們有沒有那部長因為這個投資天然氣我看到總統府潘孟安秘書長去的時候那你們也都很歡迎啊可不可以至少請政府提出一個分析報告出來嘛在投資上面還有就是因為接下來這個投資之後呢未來政府也要增加對美國天然氣的採購那對美國天然氣採購會不會又是變成說價格高運輸費然後又反過來發電成本提高我們電價又上漲\n417142\t433347\t我覺得這一系列都要評估啦對 都要評估都要評估啦不是說每次都大外宣哎呀潘孟安去了好棒喔我們可以投資天然氣因為台美關係又更進一步好棒喔然後台美關稅談判喔好棒喔我們一定可以談出一個很棒的方案但是我們到底得到什麼\n434468\t452986\t我們都不知道我是真的很希望政府那個部長啦因為你也算國安團隊一環啦新冒談判你們也有參與可不可以回去建議一下適時的揭露這談判的進度讓國內了解讓大家討論讓大家成為政府的後盾啦不要7月8號開盲盒啦可以嗎\n454326\t464659\t您的意見我都會反映你也是部長你也可以有一定的決策權不過如果委員讓我講一下以阿拉斯加天然氣的採購跟投資你看最近中東戰爭\n466243\t489964\t那能源需不需要有安全跟韌性你看喔 包括那個Duckworth 這個參議員他來台灣喔他認為說 只要是美國輸出的油氣美國他要保護他的航行安全我想這個周副委員在這裡就是說 這一種屬於不只是能源 經濟也是個安全議題\n491345\t504214\t所以我們怎麼樣站在國家最大的利益但是一定要尊重中油因為它作為採購中油也是配合國安團隊或什麼去投資所以我說你提出一個分析報告你可以把你的意見剛剛講的納進來我跟委員講其實中油評估已經好幾年了\n513519\t527604\t因為我覺得大家也不要斷章取義因為這個是一個整體的計畫就國安的角度當然大家都支持但是其實比如說跟澳洲去買也是八天天然氣就到台灣他有很多替代方案所以實際上我覺得是需要一個完整評估啦然後適時揭露啦好不好好謝謝\n","txt":"麻煩請外交部長 謝謝\n部長我先來關心一下台美關稅談判就是其實最近消息非常的少那90天的那個暫停期大概是要7月8號就到了我是看到最近是外交部次長陳明齊他可能是談判團的代表之一他是在5月30號的時候媒體報導說有信心談到一個好完整又漂亮的協議他是非常充滿信心而且談到如果別人是10%的話我們是有機會可以談到10%以下\n請問一下那個部長現在因為只剩下18天7月8號就到了嘛那目前大概我們跟美國談判的狀況是如何跟委員報告在曾立軍副院長的這個主持下目前台美有關於關稅的談判都順利進行中那這一方希望我們提出最好的方案我們也已經提出他們也覺得相當完整他希望我們提出對他們來說最好的方案對彼此當然也要對我們最好那對我們好的地方在哪裡\n我們就是希望說透過這一次的這個關稅的談判包括我們能夠建構台美的這個經貿還有科技產業的合作更緊密的關係那關稅的部分這樣子啊部長因為你回答很空洞我來問因為那個陳明祺也有提到透過談判希望能夠釐清美方具體的關切事項請問一下美方具體的關切事項是什麼\n其實他們都有公開講至少除了關稅之外非關稅障礙包括出口管制包括投資包括採購既然都已經公開講了為什麼我們還不斷談判去釐清美方具體關切事項他們關切事項現在很具體了因為那是5月30號現在的情形應該是很多的進展譬如說是什麼\n我覺得很奇怪一件事情比如說像日本跟美國談判他們很多細節其實他們國內大家都掌握例如說像美國跟日本現在就卡在汽車關稅而且日本很多東西是不讓的因為他們知道說會站在日本的角度去跟美國談判關稅\n那有的時候你適時的揭露一些具體的細節讓國內可以討論實際上國內的民意也可以成為政府對外談判的一個籌碼跟後盾而不是說好像我們現在針對美國談判一切都是以美國為主美國要我們怎麼樣我們就怎麼樣沒有站在台灣的利益去做這個事情\n那其實這個是沒有 你現在就都不能講嘛都是講一些口號嘛 空洞跟其他國家都不一樣嘛所以我們現在好像大家在等開盲盒一樣7月8號告訴大家到時候能夠接受不能接受也已經談完了其實我覺得這是一件很恐怖的事另外再問一下因為潘孟安總統府秘書長6月初的時候到美國參加一個氣候的一個能源永續能源會議嘛當時可能也有觸及到\n阿拉斯加液化天然氣設施的投資案那這兩天我看到總統府一直有消息放出來因為都是不具名啊就說 哎呀 潘孟安去有助深化台美關係進一步讓雙邊的關係更好但是我非常好奇一件事情就是政府有沒有評估過假設到時候要去投資阿拉斯加這個液化天然氣設施這個到底是好還是不好\n不知道部長您個人看法因為在阿拉斯加州長三月來台灣參加美台商會的忘年會的時候其實跟中油就有簽一個合作的意向書我會增加對美國台南氣的採購也會評估投資我希望政府可以好好評估這件事情是美國有點明台灣日本韓國說希望投資這是一兆多的一個投資案\n那台灣如果要投資的話大概要負擔大概一百億美金這是一些公開資訊講的十分之一啦他們提到的一兆四的話十分之一的話就是一千四百億嘛四十四億啦\n44億美金啦我剛剛講台幣啦總投資額的4分之1是這個數字啦那問題是在這個是反正就是很大一筆錢啦就是大概100億美金你說44億美金嗎我按照他們提的方案的總額的資料我只要跟委員講這個數字\n但是有一些資料是說一百億啦沒關係這個但不管怎麼樣都是一個很大的一筆錢可是我看到像在日本喔因為他有點名日本但日本其實國內對這個討論很熱烈而且很多人是持反對意見比如說上百個團體都有寫信給日本首相認為說這個投資案\n是一個最昂貴的一個天然氣開發案而且它對於環境有很大破壞因為它從那個阿拉斯加從那邊拉一個線下來拉一個管線下來它必須要突破八百條河流還有三座山脈施工不易也會破壞很多野生動物的保護區會影響到一些動物的休息所以\n國內是很反對日本的官員也多次提出不同的看法日本的保險公司說他們呼籲希望不要對類似的投資案做承保而且他們也希望銀行不要做融資所以這個案子在日本國內是討論很熱烈\n在我們台灣呢 沒有任何利弊得失的分析就是說 就像陳儒部長你講的我們已經簽了意向書了 好像一句話就帶過可是我們有沒有去評估 第一個 他到底有沒有破壞生態第二個 這個投資 我們有沒有辦法回本如果沒有辦法回本 純粹是美國點名我們 我們就去投資那請問站在台灣的立場 我們換到什麼\n外交或經貿都要以本國利益為出發不是說一直給現在我覺得台灣的政府都沒有看清楚川普的個性川普不是說你對他擺班的這個對他好然後讓他予取予求他就會對你比較好這一波美國跟各國談判我們都看得非常清楚可是我剛剛聽到部長您的回答都是說我們已經提出一個美方覺得很好的方案\n或者是我們投資這個天然氣美國也會很高興好像都沒有站在台灣的角度去看這個事情有啦 這是前提啦\n台灣優先啦那請問一下你們有沒有那部長因為這個投資天然氣我看到總統府潘孟安秘書長去的時候那你們也都很歡迎啊可不可以至少請政府提出一個分析報告出來嘛在投資上面還有就是因為接下來這個投資之後呢未來政府也要增加對美國天然氣的採購那對美國天然氣採購會不會又是變成說價格高運輸費然後又反過來發電成本提高我們電價又上漲\n我覺得這一系列都要評估啦對 都要評估都要評估啦不是說每次都大外宣哎呀潘孟安去了好棒喔我們可以投資天然氣因為台美關係又更進一步好棒喔然後台美關稅談判喔好棒喔我們一定可以談出一個很棒的方案但是我們到底得到什麼\n我們都不知道我是真的很希望政府那個部長啦因為你也算國安團隊一環啦新冒談判你們也有參與可不可以回去建議一下適時的揭露這談判的進度讓國內了解讓大家討論讓大家成為政府的後盾啦不要7月8號開盲盒啦可以嗎\n您的意見我都會反映你也是部長你也可以有一定的決策權不過如果委員讓我講一下以阿拉斯加天然氣的採購跟投資你看最近中東戰爭\n那能源需不需要有安全跟韌性你看喔 包括那個Duckworth 這個參議員他來台灣喔他認為說 只要是美國輸出的油氣美國他要保護他的航行安全我想這個周副委員在這裡就是說 這一種屬於不只是能源 經濟也是個安全議題\n所以我們怎麼樣站在國家最大的利益但是一定要尊重中油因為它作為採購中油也是配合國安團隊或什麼去投資所以我說你提出一個分析報告你可以把你的意見剛剛講的納進來我跟委員講其實中油評估已經好幾年了\n因為我覺得大家也不要斷章取義因為這個是一個整體的計畫就國安的角度當然大家都支持但是其實比如說跟澳洲去買也是八天天然氣就到台灣他有很多替代方案所以實際上我覺得是需要一個完整評估啦然後適時揭露啦好不好好謝謝\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.130 --> 00:00.737\n麻煩請外交部長謝謝\n\n00:09.836 --> 00:36.473\n部長我先來關心一下台美關稅談判就是其實最近消息非常的少那90天的那個暫停期大概是要7月8號就到了我是看到最近是外交部次長陳明齊他可能是談判團的代表之一他是在5月30號的時候媒體報導說有信心談到一個好完整又漂亮的協議他是非常充滿信心而且談到如果別人是10%的話我們是有機會可以談到10%以下\n\n00:38.334 --> 01:06.749\n請問一下那個部長現在因為只剩下18天7月8號就到了嘛那目前大概我們跟美國談判的狀況是如何跟委員報告在曾立軍副院長的這個主持下目前台美有關於關稅的談判都順利進行中那這一方希望我們提出最好的方案我們也已經提出他們也覺得相當完整他希望我們提出對他們來說最好的方案對彼此當然也要對我們最好那對我們好的地方在哪裡\n\n01:07.869 --> 01:32.105\n我們就是希望說透過這一次的這個關稅的談判包括我們能夠建構台美的這個經貿還有科技產業的合作更緊密的關係那關稅的部分這樣子啊部長因為你回答很空洞我來問因為那個陳明祺也有提到透過談判希望能夠釐清美方具體的關切事項請問一下美方具體的關切事項是什麼\n\n01:34.091 --> 01:51.980\n其實他們都有公開講至少除了關稅之外非關稅障礙包括出口管制包括投資包括採購既然都已經公開講了為什麼我們還不斷談判去釐清美方具體關切事項他們關切事項現在很具體了因為那是5月30號現在的情形應該是很多的進展譬如說是什麼\n\n01:56.870 --> 02:14.037\n我覺得很奇怪一件事情比如說像日本跟美國談判他們很多細節其實他們國內大家都掌握例如說像美國跟日本現在就卡在汽車關稅而且日本很多東西是不讓的因為他們知道說會站在日本的角度去跟美國談判關稅\n\n02:15.658 --> 02:34.549\n那有的時候你適時的揭露一些具體的細節讓國內可以討論實際上國內的民意也可以成為政府對外談判的一個籌碼跟後盾而不是說好像我們現在針對美國談判一切都是以美國為主美國要我們怎麼樣我們就怎麼樣沒有站在台灣的利益去做這個事情\n\n02:35.089 --> 03:03.412\n那其實這個是沒有你現在就都不能講嘛都是講一些口號嘛空洞跟其他國家都不一樣嘛所以我們現在好像大家在等開盲盒一樣7月8號告訴大家到時候能夠接受不能接受也已經談完了其實我覺得這是一件很恐怖的事另外再問一下因為潘孟安總統府秘書長6月初的時候到美國參加一個氣候的一個能源永續能源會議嘛當時可能也有觸及到\n\n03:04.605 --> 03:27.993\n阿拉斯加液化天然氣設施的投資案那這兩天我看到總統府一直有消息放出來因為都是不具名啊就說哎呀潘孟安去有助深化台美關係進一步讓雙邊的關係更好但是我非常好奇一件事情就是政府有沒有評估過假設到時候要去投資阿拉斯加這個液化天然氣設施這個到底是好還是不好\n\n03:29.005 --> 03:55.035\n不知道部長您個人看法因為在阿拉斯加州長三月來台灣參加美台商會的忘年會的時候其實跟中油就有簽一個合作的意向書我會增加對美國台南氣的採購也會評估投資我希望政府可以好好評估這件事情是美國有點明台灣日本韓國說希望投資這是一兆多的一個投資案\n\n03:55.675 --> 04:08.601\n那台灣如果要投資的話大概要負擔大概一百億美金這是一些公開資訊講的十分之一啦他們提到的一兆四的話十分之一的話就是一千四百億嘛四十四億啦\n\n04:11.323 --> 04:17.211\n44億美金啦我剛剛講台幣啦總投資額的4分之1是這個數字啦那問題是在這個是反正就是很大一筆錢啦就是大概100億美金你說44億美金嗎我按照他們提的方案的總額的資料我只要跟委員講這個數字\n\n04:27.765 --> 04:44.406\n但是有一些資料是說一百億啦沒關係這個但不管怎麼樣都是一個很大的一筆錢可是我看到像在日本喔因為他有點名日本但日本其實國內對這個討論很熱烈而且很多人是持反對意見比如說上百個團體都有寫信給日本首相認為說這個投資案\n\n04:45.948 --> 05:07.769\n是一個最昂貴的一個天然氣開發案而且它對於環境有很大破壞因為它從那個阿拉斯加從那邊拉一個線下來拉一個管線下來它必須要突破八百條河流還有三座山脈施工不易也會破壞很多野生動物的保護區會影響到一些動物的休息所以\n\n05:11.574 --> 05:25.633\n國內是很反對日本的官員也多次提出不同的看法日本的保險公司說他們呼籲希望不要對類似的投資案做承保而且他們也希望銀行不要做融資所以這個案子在日本國內是討論很熱烈\n\n05:27.515 --> 05:49.522\n在我們台灣呢沒有任何利弊得失的分析就是說就像陳儒部長你講的我們已經簽了意向書了好像一句話就帶過可是我們有沒有去評估第一個他到底有沒有破壞生態第二個這個投資我們有沒有辦法回本如果沒有辦法回本純粹是美國點名我們我們就去投資那請問站在台灣的立場我們換到什麼\n\n05:50.578 --> 06:18.863\n外交或經貿都要以本國利益為出發不是說一直給現在我覺得台灣的政府都沒有看清楚川普的個性川普不是說你對他擺班的這個對他好然後讓他予取予求他就會對你比較好這一波美國跟各國談判我們都看得非常清楚可是我剛剛聽到部長您的回答都是說我們已經提出一個美方覺得很好的方案\n\n06:19.503 --> 06:26.578\n或者是我們投資這個天然氣美國也會很高興好像都沒有站在台灣的角度去看這個事情有啦這是前提啦\n\n06:27.421 --> 06:49.737\n台灣優先啦那請問一下你們有沒有那部長因為這個投資天然氣我看到總統府潘孟安秘書長去的時候那你們也都很歡迎啊可不可以至少請政府提出一個分析報告出來嘛在投資上面還有就是因為接下來這個投資之後呢未來政府也要增加對美國天然氣的採購那對美國天然氣採購會不會又是變成說價格高運輸費然後又反過來發電成本提高我們電價又上漲\n\n06:57.142 --> 07:13.347\n我覺得這一系列都要評估啦對都要評估都要評估啦不是說每次都大外宣哎呀潘孟安去了好棒喔我們可以投資天然氣因為台美關係又更進一步好棒喔然後台美關稅談判喔好棒喔我們一定可以談出一個很棒的方案但是我們到底得到什麼\n\n07:14.468 --> 07:32.986\n我們都不知道我是真的很希望政府那個部長啦因為你也算國安團隊一環啦新冒談判你們也有參與可不可以回去建議一下適時的揭露這談判的進度讓國內了解讓大家討論讓大家成為政府的後盾啦不要7月8號開盲盒啦可以嗎\n\n07:34.326 --> 07:44.659\n您的意見我都會反映你也是部長你也可以有一定的決策權不過如果委員讓我講一下以阿拉斯加天然氣的採購跟投資你看最近中東戰爭\n\n07:46.243 --> 08:09.964\n那能源需不需要有安全跟韌性你看喔包括那個Duckworth這個參議員他來台灣喔他認為說只要是美國輸出的油氣美國他要保護他的航行安全我想這個周副委員在這裡就是說這一種屬於不只是能源經濟也是個安全議題\n\n08:11.345 --> 08:24.214\n所以我們怎麼樣站在國家最大的利益但是一定要尊重中油因為它作為採購中油也是配合國安團隊或什麼去投資所以我說你提出一個分析報告你可以把你的意見剛剛講的納進來我跟委員講其實中油評估已經好幾年了\n\n08:33.519 --> 08:47.604\n因為我覺得大家也不要斷章取義因為這個是一個整體的計畫就國安的角度當然大家都支持但是其實比如說跟澳洲去買也是八天天然氣就到台灣他有很多替代方案所以實際上我覺得是需要一個完整評估啦然後適時揭露啦好不好好謝謝\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.13,"end":0.737,"text":"麻煩請外交部長 謝謝"},{"start":9.836,"end":36.473,"text":"部長我先來關心一下台美關稅談判就是其實最近消息非常的少那90天的那個暫停期大概是要7月8號就到了我是看到最近是外交部次長陳明齊他可能是談判團的代表之一他是在5月30號的時候媒體報導說有信心談到一個好完整又漂亮的協議他是非常充滿信心而且談到如果別人是10%的話我們是有機會可以談到10%以下"},{"start":38.334,"end":66.749,"text":"請問一下那個部長現在因為只剩下18天7月8號就到了嘛那目前大概我們跟美國談判的狀況是如何跟委員報告在曾立軍副院長的這個主持下目前台美有關於關稅的談判都順利進行中那這一方希望我們提出最好的方案我們也已經提出他們也覺得相當完整他希望我們提出對他們來說最好的方案對彼此當然也要對我們最好那對我們好的地方在哪裡"},{"start":67.869,"end":92.105,"text":"我們就是希望說透過這一次的這個關稅的談判包括我們能夠建構台美的這個經貿還有科技產業的合作更緊密的關係那關稅的部分這樣子啊部長因為你回答很空洞我來問因為那個陳明祺也有提到透過談判希望能夠釐清美方具體的關切事項請問一下美方具體的關切事項是什麼"},{"start":94.091,"end":111.98,"text":"其實他們都有公開講至少除了關稅之外非關稅障礙包括出口管制包括投資包括採購既然都已經公開講了為什麼我們還不斷談判去釐清美方具體關切事項他們關切事項現在很具體了因為那是5月30號現在的情形應該是很多的進展譬如說是什麼"},{"start":116.87,"end":134.037,"text":"我覺得很奇怪一件事情比如說像日本跟美國談判他們很多細節其實他們國內大家都掌握例如說像美國跟日本現在就卡在汽車關稅而且日本很多東西是不讓的因為他們知道說會站在日本的角度去跟美國談判關稅"},{"start":135.658,"end":154.549,"text":"那有的時候你適時的揭露一些具體的細節讓國內可以討論實際上國內的民意也可以成為政府對外談判的一個籌碼跟後盾而不是說好像我們現在針對美國談判一切都是以美國為主美國要我們怎麼樣我們就怎麼樣沒有站在台灣的利益去做這個事情"},{"start":155.089,"end":183.412,"text":"那其實這個是沒有 你現在就都不能講嘛都是講一些口號嘛 空洞跟其他國家都不一樣嘛所以我們現在好像大家在等開盲盒一樣7月8號告訴大家到時候能夠接受不能接受也已經談完了其實我覺得這是一件很恐怖的事另外再問一下因為潘孟安總統府秘書長6月初的時候到美國參加一個氣候的一個能源永續能源會議嘛當時可能也有觸及到"},{"start":184.605,"end":207.993,"text":"阿拉斯加液化天然氣設施的投資案那這兩天我看到總統府一直有消息放出來因為都是不具名啊就說 哎呀 潘孟安去有助深化台美關係進一步讓雙邊的關係更好但是我非常好奇一件事情就是政府有沒有評估過假設到時候要去投資阿拉斯加這個液化天然氣設施這個到底是好還是不好"},{"start":209.005,"end":235.035,"text":"不知道部長您個人看法因為在阿拉斯加州長三月來台灣參加美台商會的忘年會的時候其實跟中油就有簽一個合作的意向書我會增加對美國台南氣的採購也會評估投資我希望政府可以好好評估這件事情是美國有點明台灣日本韓國說希望投資這是一兆多的一個投資案"},{"start":235.675,"end":248.601,"text":"那台灣如果要投資的話大概要負擔大概一百億美金這是一些公開資訊講的十分之一啦他們提到的一兆四的話十分之一的話就是一千四百億嘛四十四億啦"},{"start":251.323,"end":257.211,"text":"44億美金啦我剛剛講台幣啦總投資額的4分之1是這個數字啦那問題是在這個是反正就是很大一筆錢啦就是大概100億美金你說44億美金嗎我按照他們提的方案的總額的資料我只要跟委員講這個數字"},{"start":267.765,"end":284.406,"text":"但是有一些資料是說一百億啦沒關係這個但不管怎麼樣都是一個很大的一筆錢可是我看到像在日本喔因為他有點名日本但日本其實國內對這個討論很熱烈而且很多人是持反對意見比如說上百個團體都有寫信給日本首相認為說這個投資案"},{"start":285.948,"end":307.769,"text":"是一個最昂貴的一個天然氣開發案而且它對於環境有很大破壞因為它從那個阿拉斯加從那邊拉一個線下來拉一個管線下來它必須要突破八百條河流還有三座山脈施工不易也會破壞很多野生動物的保護區會影響到一些動物的休息所以"},{"start":311.574,"end":325.633,"text":"國內是很反對日本的官員也多次提出不同的看法日本的保險公司說他們呼籲希望不要對類似的投資案做承保而且他們也希望銀行不要做融資所以這個案子在日本國內是討論很熱烈"},{"start":327.515,"end":349.522,"text":"在我們台灣呢 沒有任何利弊得失的分析就是說 就像陳儒部長你講的我們已經簽了意向書了 好像一句話就帶過可是我們有沒有去評估 第一個 他到底有沒有破壞生態第二個 這個投資 我們有沒有辦法回本如果沒有辦法回本 純粹是美國點名我們 我們就去投資那請問站在台灣的立場 我們換到什麼"},{"start":350.578,"end":378.863,"text":"外交或經貿都要以本國利益為出發不是說一直給現在我覺得台灣的政府都沒有看清楚川普的個性川普不是說你對他擺班的這個對他好然後讓他予取予求他就會對你比較好這一波美國跟各國談判我們都看得非常清楚可是我剛剛聽到部長您的回答都是說我們已經提出一個美方覺得很好的方案"},{"start":379.503,"end":386.578,"text":"或者是我們投資這個天然氣美國也會很高興好像都沒有站在台灣的角度去看這個事情有啦 這是前提啦"},{"start":387.421,"end":409.737,"text":"台灣優先啦那請問一下你們有沒有那部長因為這個投資天然氣我看到總統府潘孟安秘書長去的時候那你們也都很歡迎啊可不可以至少請政府提出一個分析報告出來嘛在投資上面還有就是因為接下來這個投資之後呢未來政府也要增加對美國天然氣的採購那對美國天然氣採購會不會又是變成說價格高運輸費然後又反過來發電成本提高我們電價又上漲"},{"start":417.142,"end":433.347,"text":"我覺得這一系列都要評估啦對 都要評估都要評估啦不是說每次都大外宣哎呀潘孟安去了好棒喔我們可以投資天然氣因為台美關係又更進一步好棒喔然後台美關稅談判喔好棒喔我們一定可以談出一個很棒的方案但是我們到底得到什麼"},{"start":434.468,"end":452.986,"text":"我們都不知道我是真的很希望政府那個部長啦因為你也算國安團隊一環啦新冒談判你們也有參與可不可以回去建議一下適時的揭露這談判的進度讓國內了解讓大家討論讓大家成為政府的後盾啦不要7月8號開盲盒啦可以嗎"},{"start":454.326,"end":464.659,"text":"您的意見我都會反映你也是部長你也可以有一定的決策權不過如果委員讓我講一下以阿拉斯加天然氣的採購跟投資你看最近中東戰爭"},{"start":466.243,"end":489.964,"text":"那能源需不需要有安全跟韌性你看喔 包括那個Duckworth 這個參議員他來台灣喔他認為說 只要是美國輸出的油氣美國他要保護他的航行安全我想這個周副委員在這裡就是說 這一種屬於不只是能源 經濟也是個安全議題"},{"start":491.345,"end":504.214,"text":"所以我們怎麼樣站在國家最大的利益但是一定要尊重中油因為它作為採購中油也是配合國安團隊或什麼去投資所以我說你提出一個分析報告你可以把你的意見剛剛講的納進來我跟委員講其實中油評估已經好幾年了"},{"start":513.519,"end":527.604,"text":"因為我覺得大家也不要斷章取義因為這個是一個整體的計畫就國安的角度當然大家都支持但是其實比如說跟澳洲去買也是八天天然氣就到台灣他有很多替代方案所以實際上我覺得是需要一個完整評估啦然後適時揭露啦好不好好謝謝"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":547,"blocks":[["葉委員元之：（10時58分）麻煩請外交部長，謝謝。"],["林部長佳龍：委員好。"],["葉委員元之：部長，我想關心一下臺美關稅談判，因為最近消息非常的少，90天的暫停期大概是7月8號就要到了，我最近看到的是在5月30號的時候媒體報導指出，外交部次長陳明祺，他可能是談判團的代表之一，他說有信心談到一個好、完整又漂亮的協議。他是非常充滿信心，而且談到如果別人是10%的話，我們是有機會可以談到10%以下。請問一下部長，因為只剩下18天7月8號就到了，目前我們跟美國談判的狀況大概是如何？"],["林部長佳龍：跟委員報告，在鄭麗君副院長的主持下，目前臺美有關於關稅的談判都順利進行中，對方希望我們提出最好的方案，我們也已經提出，他們也覺得相當完整。"],["葉委員元之：是怎麼樣順利？他希望我們提出對他們來說最好的方案？"],["林部長佳龍：對彼此，當然也要對我們最好。"],["葉委員元之：對我們好的地方在哪裡？"],["林部長佳龍：我們就是希望透過這一次的關稅談判，包括我們能夠建構臺美的經貿，還有科技產業合作更緊密的關係，關稅的部分……"],["葉委員元之：部長，因為你回答得很空洞，我來問，因為陳明祺也有提到，透過談判希望能夠釐清美方具體的關切事項，請問一下，美方具體的關切事項是什麼？"],["林部長佳龍：其實他們都有公開講，除了關稅之外，就是非關稅障礙，包括出口管制、投資、採購。"],["葉委員元之：既然都已經公開講了，為什麼我們還不斷談判去釐清美方具體關切事項？所以這個有講跟……"],["林部長佳龍：他們的關切事項現在很具體了。"],["葉委員元之：那是什麼？"],["林部長佳龍：因為那是5月30號，現在的情形應該是有很多的進展。"],["葉委員元之：譬如說是什麼？不是，我覺得這是很奇怪的一件事情，譬如像日本跟美國談判，很多細節其實他們國內大家都有掌握，例如說像是美國跟日本現在就卡在汽車關稅，而且日本很多東西是不讓的，因為他們會站在日本的角度去跟美國談判關稅，有的時候你適時地揭露一些具體細節，讓國內可以討論，實際上國內的民意也可以成為政府對外談判的籌碼跟後盾，而不是說好像我們現在在跟美國談判，一切都是以美國為主，美國要我們怎麼樣，我們就怎麼樣，沒有站在臺灣的利益去做這個事情，其實這個是……"],["林部長佳龍：有啦。"],["葉委員元之：沒有，你現在就都不能講嘛，都是講一些口號嘛，很空洞，跟其他國家都不一樣，所以現在大家好像在等開盲盒一樣，7月8號才告訴大家，到時候能夠接受、不能接受，也已經談完了，其實我覺得這是一件很恐怖的事。","另外再問一下，因為總統府秘書長潘孟安6月初的時候到美國參加一個永續能源會議，當時可能也有觸及到阿拉斯加液化天然氣設施的投資案，這兩天我看到總統府一直有消息放出來，因為都是不具名，就說派潘孟安去有助深化臺美關係，進一步讓雙邊的關係更好。但是我非常好奇一件事情就是政府有沒有評估過，假設到時候要去投資阿拉斯加液化天然氣設施，這到底是好還是不好，不知道部長您個人看法如何？"],["林部長佳龍：因為阿拉斯加州長在3月來臺灣參加美臺商會忘年會的時候，其實就有跟中油簽一個合作的意向書……"],["葉委員元之：我知道啊，但是問題是……"],["林部長佳龍：也會增加對美國天然氣的採購，也會評估投資。"],["葉委員元之：我希望政府可以好好評估啦！這件事情是美國有點名臺灣、日本、韓國，說希望這些國家投資嘛，這是一兆多的投資案，臺灣如果要投資的話，大概要負擔100億美金，這是一些公開資訊講的，我看到……"],["林部長佳龍：十分之一啦，他們提到的，44億。"],["葉委員元之：一兆四的話，十分之一就是1,400億。"],["林部長佳龍：44億啦。"],["葉委員元之：44億美金，我剛剛講臺幣啦。"],["林部長佳龍：對，總投資額的四分之一是這個數字。"],["葉委員元之：對，那問題是在這個……"],["林部長佳龍：這個是雙方的意向書……"],["葉委員元之：反正就是很大一筆錢啦，就是大概100億美金……你說44億美金嘛。"],["林部長佳龍：按照他們提的方案總額的十分之一，我只是跟委員講這個數字，至於談判就由他們雙向去……"],["葉委員元之：但是有一些資料是說100億啦，沒關係，但不管怎麼樣都是很大一筆錢。可是我看到像在日本，因為他有點名日本，但日本國內其實對於這個議題討論很熱烈，而且很多人是持反對意見，比如說上百個團體都有寫信給日本首相，認為這個投資案是一個最昂貴的天然氣開發案，而且對於環境有很大的破壞，因為從阿拉斯加那邊拉一個管線下來，必須要突破800條河流還有3座山脈，施工不易，也會破壞很多野生動物的保護區，會影響到一些動物的棲息，所以日本國內是很反對，日本的官員也多次提出不同的看法；日本的保險公司說他們呼籲希望不要對類似投資案做承保，而且他們也希望銀行不要做融資，所以這個案子在日本國內是討論很熱烈。而在我們臺灣卻沒有任何利弊得失的分析，就誠如部長你講的我們已經簽了意向書了，就一句話帶過，可是我們有沒有去評估：第一個，它到底有沒有破壞生態；第二個，這個投資我們有沒有辦法回本，如果沒有辦法回本，純粹是美國點名我們，我們就去投資，請問一下，站在臺灣的立場，我們換到什麼？外交或經貿都要以本國利益為出發，不是說一直給。我覺得臺灣的政府都沒有看清楚川普的個性，川普不是說你百般地對他好，讓他予取予求，他就會對你比較好，這一波美國跟各國談判，我們都看得非常清楚，可是我剛剛聽到部長您的回答都是說我們已經提出一個美方覺得很好的方案，或是說我們投資這個天然氣，美國也會很高興，好像都沒有站在臺灣的角度去看這個事情。"],["林部長佳龍：有啦，這是前提啦，臺灣優先啦。"],["葉委員元之：部長，因為投資天然氣這個部分，我看到總統府潘孟安秘書長去的時候，你們也都很歡迎，可不可以至少請政府提出一個在投資方面的分析報告出來？還有接下來投資之後，未來政府也要增加對美國天然氣的採購，對美國天然氣採購會不會又變成價格高又有運輸費，而反過來導致發電成本提高，我們電價又上漲？我覺得這一系列都要評估啦。"],["林部長佳龍：對，都要評估。"],["葉委員元之：都要評估啦，不是說每次都大外宣，說潘孟安去了，好棒喔！我們可以投資天然氣，Yay！臺美關係又更進一步，好棒喔！臺美關稅談判好棒喔！我們一定可以談出一個很棒的方案。但是我們到底得到什麼，我們都不知道，我是真的很希望政府……部長，因為你也算國安團隊的一環，經貿談判你們也有參與，可不可以回去建議一下適時地揭露談判的進度？讓國內了解、讓大家討論，讓大家成為政府的後盾，不要7月8號開盲盒，可以嗎？"],["林部長佳龍：您的意見我都會反映。"],["葉委員元之：你也是部長，你也可以有一定的決策權，對不對？"],["林部長佳龍：委員，讓我講一下。"],["葉委員元之：好。"],["林部長佳龍：以阿拉斯加天然氣的採購跟投資，你看最近中東戰爭，能源需不需要有安全跟韌性？你看包括Duckworth參議員來臺灣，他認為只要是美國輸出的油、氣，美國會保護其航行安全，我想永康委員也在這裡，就是說這不只是能源經濟問題，也是安全議題，所以我們怎麼樣站在國家最大的利益……"],["葉委員元之：是啦，部長，所以我說……"],["林部長佳龍：但是一定要尊重中油，因為它作為採購跟投資的單位……"],["葉委員元之：中油也是配合國安團隊或什麼去投資嘛……"],["林部長佳龍：就是整體上一定要站在國家最大的利益。"],["葉委員元之：所以我說請你提出一個分析報告，你也可以把你剛剛講的意見納進來。"],["林部長佳龍：我跟委員講，其實中油評估已經好幾年了，他們只是說……"],["葉委員元之：部長，因為我覺得大家也不要斷章取義，因為這是一個整體的計畫，就國安的角度，當然大家都支持，但是其實比如跟澳洲去買也是8天天然氣就會到臺灣，這是有很多替代方案的，所以實際上我覺得是需要一個完整評估以及適時揭露，好不好？"],["林部長佳龍：好，一起來努力。"],["葉委員元之：好，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝葉元之委員的質詢。","接下來由王鴻薇委員上臺質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":56,"meet_id":"委員會-11-3-35-20","speakers":["黃仁","陳俊宇","王定宇","羅美玲","陳永康","林楚茵","沈伯洋","徐巧芯","黃國昌","馬文君","葉元之","王鴻薇","李彥秀","張啓楷","林憶君","陳冠廷"],"page_start":1,"meetingDate":["2025-06-19"],"gazette_id":"1146101","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1146101_00002"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期外交及國防委員會第20次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"處理院會交付114年度中央政府總預算決議，外交部主管預算凍結案等3案","agenda_id":"1146101_00001"}}}