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{\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 688.328, \"end\": 688.468, \"score\": 0.882}, {\"word\": \"做\", \"start\": 688.468, \"end\": 688.648, \"score\": 0.967}, {\"word\": \"法\", \"start\": 688.648, \"end\": 688.668, \"score\": 0.998}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:00,569 --> 00:00:25,544\n每一次我們委員會的這個重要的議題你都親自來代表你對本委員會的重視也代表你對私菸茶器的重視5月20號的時候針對於私菸茶器的部分我們才任務發文給五大菸商就是對於我們目前加熱菸的違法達到96萬包跟去年相比113年同期相比增加了44萬\n\n2\n00:00:27,805 --> 00:00:43,533\n所以我們財政部就發文問了菸商說我們到底應該怎麼做這麼多私菸但是我們大家都知道私菸的管理查緝事實上重要的責任是在衛福部我覺得這個做法當然可以財政部做了莊部長做了當然沒錯但是我們有橫向聯繫的部門怎麼沒有第一時間先找衛福部商量\n\n3\n00:00:51,690 --> 00:01:09,027\n或者找大家一起來同時找衛福部一起來這是第一個我覺得你們是不是感情不夠好照道理說部長你應該先找邱部長我們大家一起找看有關單位是誰來海關檢查警察哪些單位一起來菸商一起來\n\n4\n00:01:10,709 --> 00:01:30,655\n直接發文給他在我看來你們兩個感情是很好的好來你不用解釋我今天時間有限我今天問題很多但是5月27號我們衛福部就發了一個電子煙箱的查緝平台對於後續未來各部會怎麼去從源頭去做管理我們去做一些討論那\n\n5\n00:01:32,795 --> 00:01:59,590\n相較之下我覺得這也凸顯出我們包括我看到衛福部我們的國建署在6月17號就在媒體發出聲明就是說我們對目前財閥的這個數目我們是非常滿意的財閥的數量高但是同時我覺得財政部也沒有錯因為我們違法的數件也高\n\n6\n00:02:02,057 --> 00:02:18,823\n財閥的數量高跟我們違法數量高這是兩件不一樣的事情代表我們違反的人特別多這個也是我要提醒衛福部的地方違規的人多當然你財閥數量也高啊相對的不斷都在提高啊所以\n\n7\n00:02:20,031 --> 00:02:38,097\n我覺得這並不代表財政部杞人憂天但是邱部長我憑良心講我能夠理解財政部的擔心因為我看到國建署提供的數據從今年1月到5月我們全國查緝電子菸的數量只有158件家人菸總共有1445件網路平台裁罰的只有7件\n\n8\n00:02:46,892 --> 00:02:51,278\n這個數據我現在講的數字你應該都很清楚但是我們底下的黑數\n\n9\n00:03:01,306 --> 00:03:23,002\n是這個的幾倍你們知道嗎你有聽到嗎邱部長我們從供應面換色面使用面其實都是結合各部會對啦我說你知道黑素有可能是這個的幾倍你知道嗎那你知道黑素比這個都多很多所說的數目不曉得吳司長有沒有誰可以回應我\n\n10\n00:03:25,339 --> 00:03:33,507\n謝謝李委員的關心那過去移送裁法的案件有一些事還沒有裁法還在行政調查當中你覺得黑數是現在查緝到的可能的幾倍所以比現在查緝到的更多\n\n11\n00:03:46,533 --> 00:04:00,228\n有沒有可能應該當然查緝到的跟沒有查緝到的當然都有啦部長你都不敢承認我就直接告訴你黑數恐怕是你們查緝到的數十倍以上好來我要以網路販售為例\n\n12\n00:04:03,872 --> 00:04:31,503\n我們現在網路上根本就不能賣菸嘛你們很清楚嘛無論是菸品或電子菸都是依法都是全面禁止的但是我們光從Google上面就可以輕易找到三家在網路上販賣加熱菸或電子菸或者我們年輕人現在從IG也好臉書也好或者有一些LINE的社群都會告訴大家你要抽電子菸你要去哪裡買\n\n13\n00:04:32,984 --> 00:04:52,497\n所以就是說我們現在國建署對外只是蝦皮啦露天啦或者跟有一些平台業者合作獲得出口的控制但是買這些私菸的狀況事實上有太多的管道都不再列入你們現在茶企的範圍之內所以\n\n14\n00:04:54,878 --> 00:05:04,201\n今天為什麼張偉排了這個專報就是對於目前茶季失焉的部分對於你們目前所掌握到的管道事實上大家是不滿意的這也凸顯出財政部的憂慮事實上是沒有錯的\n\n15\n00:05:12,443 --> 00:05:22,612\n所以我覺得在茶器的部分我還是要提醒邱部長我們還是有精進的功能你不可以只看蝦皮露天因為現在很多人賴群組有在抽這個電子菸他們自己有跟你講到哪裡去買所以目前我看到的\n\n16\n00:05:28,837 --> 00:05:55,632\n其實用心一點大家都知道翠上面也有人在糾團在餵啦所以我覺得這個是你要去注意的地方但是部長邱部長你可以站旁邊來莊部長但是我覺得你經濟的地方還有一些地方可以去做處理就是說翠上面我有看到網路在分享譬如說小港機場有人講說我們現在拖運的行李都會照S光你多帶菸大家都看得到你帶什麼微鏡瓶都看得到\n\n17\n00:05:56,252 --> 00:06:15,988\n但是手提的就沒有經過X光機嘛就是用目測看你有沒有多帶多買嘛但是往往我就看到TRE上面有一個漏洞喔有人就是我先手提用拿的當我經過因為我們現在有那個驗那個豬肉的那個豬瘟非洲豬瘟嘛但非洲豬瘟不管菸品嘛部長你知道嘛你帶十條菸你帶二十條電子菸他沒有看嘛因為他只看有沒有帶豬肉嘛\n\n18\n00:06:25,995 --> 00:06:29,597\n他拿完通過那個X光機查有沒有豬瘟的時候他就走到廁所去那他就把他所買的電子菸全部都塞到T0的行李裡面你就沒看到嘛所以我只講這個案例給你事實上查緝私菸不是只有衛福部的責任事實上財政部有很多可以精進的作為\n\n19\n00:06:48,587 --> 00:07:03,679\n所以這是我今天在提醒你們的地方好我這個議題到此結束來部長你們都可以請邱部長你可以請回莊部長你可以留下來部長你要再留下來對不起我還有第二個議題好那個你們其他可以請回就是說上個月我有質詢那個不印證的議題就是說如何對於不印證的那個補助的扣除額的部分現在你們本來是要求前三年要會計制度完備現在改成前一年就好了看起來是放寬了\n\n20\n00:07:18,010 --> 00:07:35,733\n但是我要提醒的是我們做這件事情當時賴慧雯是召委我們都同意說事實上我們政府做這件事情我們扣除的目的是要維持基本生活的必要支出還有我們政府認為這件事情應該是要給予扣除跟\n\n21\n00:07:37,146 --> 00:07:52,608\n補助的所以那個扣除而改成一年這個事情跟不孕症夫妻事實上是沒有足夠原因這是兩件事情我覺得應該把重心放在如何讓診所採取何種報稅的方式\n\n22\n00:07:53,809 --> 00:07:57,652\n就是不應該把它放在你是哪一種報稅方式而是應該確認民眾確實他因為做不孕症的這個醫療他可以得到補助這個核心問題應該是在這邊而不是說你報稅制度完被改成三年改成兩年我覺得這件事情我仍舊不認同\n\n23\n00:08:13,986 --> 00:08:41,218\n我希望你可以回去考慮那第二點就是說我覺得你們目前無論是次費補助或健保補助你有四種方式無論是查證核實或書面審查或前三年的這個平均損益或按費用的費率來做申報這是屬於健保診所的部分但是事實上對於現在次費的部分你要求說你一定要用按費用率來去做申報\n\n24\n00:08:42,538 --> 00:08:52,093\n不管是健保有沒有健保或自費我覺得你不應該有兩套制度才來去叫做會計制度的完備我覺得這個對於我們對於政府獎勵就是說\n\n25\n00:08:57,922 --> 00:09:23,419\n補助就是你可以做不印證就扣除了這件事情我覺得應該是回到一些基本包括大法官701號也有解釋說對於醫療費用支出稅增機關應該本於職權審核至於用哪一種審核方式不應該增加行政稽查的成本否則用特定的申報方式是有違反平等原則\n\n26\n00:09:24,660 --> 00:09:44,220\n這是大法官701號的解釋我要提醒您所以不管是健保或者是自費我覺得應該都要用便民的方式來去做處理也不應該違反平等原則最後我要請邱部長衛福部有要求你就是說對於做不孕症的部分我們本來要求說\n\n27\n00:09:46,122 --> 00:10:11,196\n財政部有建議衛福部說應該要會計制度的完備你才可以申請到那個不孕症的補助對不對他有要求這件事情嗎我剛剛講的那個是扣除額的部分那我是講人工生殖的補助這部分我們補助的全部免稅對不起你再講一次如果由國健署補助的\n\n28\n00:10:12,182 --> 00:10:34,680\n對啦事實上我覺得跟委員報告我支持衛福部只要是政府補救的費用多免納入報稅免稅這是兩件事我們現在對但是現在衛福財政部要求說應該會計制度完備才可以你到醫院才可以領到那個人工生殖補助我剛剛這是兩件事情剛剛我講的是\n\n29\n00:10:35,521 --> 00:11:03,295\n扣除額在你的每年要繳的稅的扣除額我現在講的是國建署現在目前那個補助的要件的修正跟調整喔所以我絕對支持衛福部現在不用去管會計制度有沒有完備你只要有做我就給你補助這個是我們政府給予補助的目的所以財政部這樣是你不要去介入他那麼多因為\n\n30\n00:11:04,315 --> 00:11:23,604\n我們政府目的是不是要補助給這些年輕人你不認證的困難我就是給你補助讓你去做有沒有自費或有沒有健保這都不是當時選擇這些診所條件他只要選擇說我覺得這個醫生好做有機會成功風評不錯我就要去這家醫院做他馬去管說請問你這家醫院有沒有會計制度完備\n\n31\n00:11:24,804 --> 00:11:28,668\n我覺得這個是不對的所以我絕對支持衛福部的做法\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n569\t25544\t每一次我們委員會的這個重要的議題你都親自來代表你對本委員會的重視也代表你對私菸茶器的重視5月20號的時候針對於私菸茶器的部分我們才任務發文給五大菸商就是對於我們目前加熱菸的違法達到96萬包跟去年相比113年同期相比增加了44萬\n27805\t43533\t所以我們財政部就發文問了菸商說我們到底應該怎麼做這麼多私菸但是我們大家都知道私菸的管理查緝事實上重要的責任是在衛福部我覺得這個做法當然可以財政部做了 莊部長做了當然沒錯但是我們有橫向聯繫的部門怎麼沒有第一時間先找衛福部商量\n51690\t69027\t或者找大家一起來同時找衛福部一起來這是第一個我覺得你們是不是感情不夠好照道理說部長你應該先找邱部長我們大家一起找看有關單位是誰來海關 檢查 警察哪些單位一起來 菸商一起來\n70709\t90655\t直接發文給他在我看來你們兩個感情是很好的好來你不用解釋我今天時間有限我今天問題很多但是5月27號我們衛福部就發了一個電子煙箱的查緝平台對於後續未來各部會怎麼去從源頭去做管理我們去做一些討論那\n92795\t119590\t相較之下我覺得這也凸顯出我們包括我看到衛福部我們的國建署在6月17號就在媒體發出聲明就是說我們對目前財閥的這個數目我們是非常滿意的財閥的數量高但是同時我覺得財政部也沒有錯因為我們違法的數件也高\n122057\t138823\t財閥的數量高跟我們違法數量高這是兩件不一樣的事情代表我們違反的人特別多這個也是我要提醒衛福部的地方違規的人多當然你財閥數量也高啊相對的不斷都在提高啊所以\n140031\t158097\t我覺得這並不代表財政部杞人憂天但是邱部長我憑良心講我能夠理解財政部的擔心因為我看到國建署提供的數據從今年1月到5月我們全國查緝電子菸的數量只有158件家人菸總共有1445件網路平台裁罰的只有7件\n166892\t171278\t這個數據 我現在講的數字你應該都很清楚但是我們底下的黑數\n181306\t203002\t是這個的幾倍你們知道嗎你有聽到嗎 邱部長我們從供應面 換色面 使用面其實都是結合各部會對啦 我說你知道黑素有可能是這個的幾倍你知道嗎那你知道黑素比這個都多很多所說的數目不曉得吳司長有沒有誰可以回應我\n205339\t213507\t謝謝李委員的關心那過去移送裁法的案件有一些事還沒有裁法還在行政調查當中你覺得黑數是現在查緝到的可能的幾倍所以比現在查緝到的更多\n226533\t240228\t有沒有可能應該當然查緝到的跟沒有查緝到的當然都有啦部長你都不敢承認我就直接告訴你黑數恐怕是你們查緝到的數十倍以上好來我要以網路販售為例\n243872\t271503\t我們現在網路上根本就不能賣菸嘛你們很清楚嘛無論是菸品或電子菸都是依法都是全面禁止的但是我們光從Google上面就可以輕易找到三家在網路上販賣加熱菸或電子菸或者我們年輕人現在從IG也好臉書也好或者有一些LINE的社群都會告訴大家你要抽電子菸你要去哪裡買\n272984\t292497\t所以就是說我們現在國建署對外只是蝦皮啦露天啦或者跟有一些平台業者合作獲得出口的控制但是買這些私菸的狀況事實上有太多的管道都不再列入你們現在茶企的範圍之內所以\n294878\t304201\t今天為什麼張偉排了這個專報就是對於目前茶季失焉的部分對於你們目前所掌握到的管道事實上大家是不滿意的這也凸顯出財政部的憂慮事實上是沒有錯的\n312443\t322612\t所以我覺得在茶器的部分我還是要提醒邱部長我們還是有精進的功能你不可以只看蝦皮露天因為現在很多人賴群組有在抽這個電子菸他們自己有跟你講到哪裡去買所以目前我看到的\n328837\t355632\t其實用心一點大家都知道 翠上面也有人在糾團在餵啦所以我覺得這個是你要去注意的地方但是部長 邱部長你可以站旁邊 來 莊部長但是我覺得你經濟的地方還有一些地方可以去做處理就是說翠上面我有看到網路在分享譬如說小港機場有人講說我們現在拖運的行李都會照S光你多帶菸大家都看得到 你帶什麼微鏡瓶都看得到\n356252\t375988\t但是手提的就沒有經過X光機嘛就是用目測看你有沒有多帶多買嘛但是往往我就看到TRE上面有一個漏洞喔有人就是我先手提用拿的當我經過因為我們現在有那個驗那個豬肉的那個豬瘟非洲豬瘟嘛但非洲豬瘟不管菸品嘛部長你知道嘛你帶十條菸你帶二十條電子菸他沒有看嘛因為他只看有沒有帶豬肉嘛\n385995\t389597\t他拿完通過那個X光機查有沒有豬瘟的時候他就走到廁所去那他就把他所買的電子菸全部都塞到T0的行李裡面你就沒看到嘛所以我只講這個案例給你事實上查緝私菸不是只有衛福部的責任事實上財政部有很多可以精進的作為\n408587\t423679\t所以這是我今天在提醒你們的地方好 我這個議題到此結束來 部長你們都可以請邱部長你可以請回 莊部長你可以留下來部長你要再留下來對不起 我還有第二個議題好 那個你們其他可以請回就是說上個月我有質詢那個不印證的議題就是說如何對於不印證的那個補助的扣除額的部分現在你們本來是要求前三年要會計制度完備現在改成前一年就好了看起來是放寬了\n438010\t455733\t但是我要提醒的是我們做這件事情當時賴慧雯是召委我們都同意說事實上我們政府做這件事情我們扣除的目的是要維持基本生活的必要支出還有我們政府認為這件事情應該是要給予扣除跟\n457146\t472608\t補助的所以那個扣除而改成一年這個事情跟不孕症夫妻事實上是沒有足夠原因這是兩件事情我覺得應該把重心放在如何讓診所採取何種報稅的方式\n473809\t477652\t就是不應該把它放在你是哪一種報稅方式而是應該確認民眾確實他因為做不孕症的這個醫療他可以得到補助這個核心問題應該是在這邊而不是說你報稅制度完被改成三年改成兩年我覺得這件事情我仍舊不認同\n493986\t521218\t我希望你可以回去考慮那第二點就是說我覺得你們目前無論是次費補助或健保補助你有四種方式無論是查證核實或書面審查或前三年的這個平均損益或按費用的費率來做申報這是屬於健保診所的部分但是事實上對於現在次費的部分你要求說你一定要用按費用率來去做申報\n522538\t532093\t不管是健保有沒有健保或自費我覺得你不應該有兩套制度才來去叫做會計制度的完備我覺得這個對於我們對於政府獎勵就是說\n537922\t563419\t補助 就是你可以做不印證就扣除了這件事情我覺得應該是回到一些基本包括大法官701號也有解釋說對於醫療費用支出 稅增機關應該本於職權審核至於用哪一種審核方式不應該增加行政稽查的成本否則用特定的申報方式是有違反平等原則\n564660\t584220\t這是大法官701號的解釋我要提醒您所以不管是健保或者是自費我覺得應該都要用便民的方式來去做處理也不應該違反平等原則最後我要請邱部長衛福部有要求你就是說對於做不孕症的部分我們本來要求說\n586122\t611196\t財政部有建議衛福部說應該要會計制度的完備你才可以申請到那個不孕症的補助對不對他有要求這件事情嗎我剛剛講的那個是扣除額的部分那我是講人工生殖的補助這部分我們補助的全部免稅對不起你再講一次如果由國健署補助的\n612182\t634680\t對啦 事實上我覺得跟委員報告我支持衛福部只要是政府補救的費用多免納入報稅免稅這是兩件事我們現在對但是現在衛福財政部要求說應該會計制度完備才可以你到醫院才可以領到那個人工生殖補助我剛剛這是兩件事情剛剛我講的是\n635521\t663295\t扣除額 在你的每年要繳的稅的扣除額我現在講的是國建署現在目前那個補助的要件的修正跟調整喔所以我絕對支持衛福部現在不用去管會計制度有沒有完備 你只要有做我就給你補助 這個是我們政府給予補助的目的所以財政部這樣是 你不要去介入他那麼多 因為\n664315\t683604\t我們政府目的是不是要補助給這些年輕人你不認證的困難我就是給你補助讓你去做有沒有自費或有沒有健保這都不是當時選擇這些診所條件他只要選擇說我覺得這個醫生好做有機會成功風評不錯我就要去這家醫院做他馬去管說請問你這家醫院有沒有會計制度完備\n684804\t688668\t我覺得這個是不對的所以我絕對支持衛福部的做法\n","txt":"每一次我們委員會的這個重要的議題你都親自來代表你對本委員會的重視也代表你對私菸茶器的重視5月20號的時候針對於私菸茶器的部分我們才任務發文給五大菸商就是對於我們目前加熱菸的違法達到96萬包跟去年相比113年同期相比增加了44萬\n所以我們財政部就發文問了菸商說我們到底應該怎麼做這麼多私菸但是我們大家都知道私菸的管理查緝事實上重要的責任是在衛福部我覺得這個做法當然可以財政部做了 莊部長做了當然沒錯但是我們有橫向聯繫的部門怎麼沒有第一時間先找衛福部商量\n或者找大家一起來同時找衛福部一起來這是第一個我覺得你們是不是感情不夠好照道理說部長你應該先找邱部長我們大家一起找看有關單位是誰來海關 檢查 警察哪些單位一起來 菸商一起來\n直接發文給他在我看來你們兩個感情是很好的好來你不用解釋我今天時間有限我今天問題很多但是5月27號我們衛福部就發了一個電子煙箱的查緝平台對於後續未來各部會怎麼去從源頭去做管理我們去做一些討論那\n相較之下我覺得這也凸顯出我們包括我看到衛福部我們的國建署在6月17號就在媒體發出聲明就是說我們對目前財閥的這個數目我們是非常滿意的財閥的數量高但是同時我覺得財政部也沒有錯因為我們違法的數件也高\n財閥的數量高跟我們違法數量高這是兩件不一樣的事情代表我們違反的人特別多這個也是我要提醒衛福部的地方違規的人多當然你財閥數量也高啊相對的不斷都在提高啊所以\n我覺得這並不代表財政部杞人憂天但是邱部長我憑良心講我能夠理解財政部的擔心因為我看到國建署提供的數據從今年1月到5月我們全國查緝電子菸的數量只有158件家人菸總共有1445件網路平台裁罰的只有7件\n這個數據 我現在講的數字你應該都很清楚但是我們底下的黑數\n是這個的幾倍你們知道嗎你有聽到嗎 邱部長我們從供應面 換色面 使用面其實都是結合各部會對啦 我說你知道黑素有可能是這個的幾倍你知道嗎那你知道黑素比這個都多很多所說的數目不曉得吳司長有沒有誰可以回應我\n謝謝李委員的關心那過去移送裁法的案件有一些事還沒有裁法還在行政調查當中你覺得黑數是現在查緝到的可能的幾倍所以比現在查緝到的更多\n有沒有可能應該當然查緝到的跟沒有查緝到的當然都有啦部長你都不敢承認我就直接告訴你黑數恐怕是你們查緝到的數十倍以上好來我要以網路販售為例\n我們現在網路上根本就不能賣菸嘛你們很清楚嘛無論是菸品或電子菸都是依法都是全面禁止的但是我們光從Google上面就可以輕易找到三家在網路上販賣加熱菸或電子菸或者我們年輕人現在從IG也好臉書也好或者有一些LINE的社群都會告訴大家你要抽電子菸你要去哪裡買\n所以就是說我們現在國建署對外只是蝦皮啦露天啦或者跟有一些平台業者合作獲得出口的控制但是買這些私菸的狀況事實上有太多的管道都不再列入你們現在茶企的範圍之內所以\n今天為什麼張偉排了這個專報就是對於目前茶季失焉的部分對於你們目前所掌握到的管道事實上大家是不滿意的這也凸顯出財政部的憂慮事實上是沒有錯的\n所以我覺得在茶器的部分我還是要提醒邱部長我們還是有精進的功能你不可以只看蝦皮露天因為現在很多人賴群組有在抽這個電子菸他們自己有跟你講到哪裡去買所以目前我看到的\n其實用心一點大家都知道 翠上面也有人在糾團在餵啦所以我覺得這個是你要去注意的地方但是部長 邱部長你可以站旁邊 來 莊部長但是我覺得你經濟的地方還有一些地方可以去做處理就是說翠上面我有看到網路在分享譬如說小港機場有人講說我們現在拖運的行李都會照S光你多帶菸大家都看得到 你帶什麼微鏡瓶都看得到\n但是手提的就沒有經過X光機嘛就是用目測看你有沒有多帶多買嘛但是往往我就看到TRE上面有一個漏洞喔有人就是我先手提用拿的當我經過因為我們現在有那個驗那個豬肉的那個豬瘟非洲豬瘟嘛但非洲豬瘟不管菸品嘛部長你知道嘛你帶十條菸你帶二十條電子菸他沒有看嘛因為他只看有沒有帶豬肉嘛\n他拿完通過那個X光機查有沒有豬瘟的時候他就走到廁所去那他就把他所買的電子菸全部都塞到T0的行李裡面你就沒看到嘛所以我只講這個案例給你事實上查緝私菸不是只有衛福部的責任事實上財政部有很多可以精進的作為\n所以這是我今天在提醒你們的地方好 我這個議題到此結束來 部長你們都可以請邱部長你可以請回 莊部長你可以留下來部長你要再留下來對不起 我還有第二個議題好 那個你們其他可以請回就是說上個月我有質詢那個不印證的議題就是說如何對於不印證的那個補助的扣除額的部分現在你們本來是要求前三年要會計制度完備現在改成前一年就好了看起來是放寬了\n但是我要提醒的是我們做這件事情當時賴慧雯是召委我們都同意說事實上我們政府做這件事情我們扣除的目的是要維持基本生活的必要支出還有我們政府認為這件事情應該是要給予扣除跟\n補助的所以那個扣除而改成一年這個事情跟不孕症夫妻事實上是沒有足夠原因這是兩件事情我覺得應該把重心放在如何讓診所採取何種報稅的方式\n就是不應該把它放在你是哪一種報稅方式而是應該確認民眾確實他因為做不孕症的這個醫療他可以得到補助這個核心問題應該是在這邊而不是說你報稅制度完被改成三年改成兩年我覺得這件事情我仍舊不認同\n我希望你可以回去考慮那第二點就是說我覺得你們目前無論是次費補助或健保補助你有四種方式無論是查證核實或書面審查或前三年的這個平均損益或按費用的費率來做申報這是屬於健保診所的部分但是事實上對於現在次費的部分你要求說你一定要用按費用率來去做申報\n不管是健保有沒有健保或自費我覺得你不應該有兩套制度才來去叫做會計制度的完備我覺得這個對於我們對於政府獎勵就是說\n補助 就是你可以做不印證就扣除了這件事情我覺得應該是回到一些基本包括大法官701號也有解釋說對於醫療費用支出 稅增機關應該本於職權審核至於用哪一種審核方式不應該增加行政稽查的成本否則用特定的申報方式是有違反平等原則\n這是大法官701號的解釋我要提醒您所以不管是健保或者是自費我覺得應該都要用便民的方式來去做處理也不應該違反平等原則最後我要請邱部長衛福部有要求你就是說對於做不孕症的部分我們本來要求說\n財政部有建議衛福部說應該要會計制度的完備你才可以申請到那個不孕症的補助對不對他有要求這件事情嗎我剛剛講的那個是扣除額的部分那我是講人工生殖的補助這部分我們補助的全部免稅對不起你再講一次如果由國健署補助的\n對啦 事實上我覺得跟委員報告我支持衛福部只要是政府補救的費用多免納入報稅免稅這是兩件事我們現在對但是現在衛福財政部要求說應該會計制度完備才可以你到醫院才可以領到那個人工生殖補助我剛剛這是兩件事情剛剛我講的是\n扣除額 在你的每年要繳的稅的扣除額我現在講的是國建署現在目前那個補助的要件的修正跟調整喔所以我絕對支持衛福部現在不用去管會計制度有沒有完備 你只要有做我就給你補助 這個是我們政府給予補助的目的所以財政部這樣是 你不要去介入他那麼多 因為\n我們政府目的是不是要補助給這些年輕人你不認證的困難我就是給你補助讓你去做有沒有自費或有沒有健保這都不是當時選擇這些診所條件他只要選擇說我覺得這個醫生好做有機會成功風評不錯我就要去這家醫院做他馬去管說請問你這家醫院有沒有會計制度完備\n我覺得這個是不對的所以我絕對支持衛福部的做法\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.569 --> 00:25.544\n每一次我們委員會的這個重要的議題你都親自來代表你對本委員會的重視也代表你對私菸茶器的重視5月20號的時候針對於私菸茶器的部分我們才任務發文給五大菸商就是對於我們目前加熱菸的違法達到96萬包跟去年相比113年同期相比增加了44萬\n\n00:27.805 --> 00:43.533\n所以我們財政部就發文問了菸商說我們到底應該怎麼做這麼多私菸但是我們大家都知道私菸的管理查緝事實上重要的責任是在衛福部我覺得這個做法當然可以財政部做了莊部長做了當然沒錯但是我們有橫向聯繫的部門怎麼沒有第一時間先找衛福部商量\n\n00:51.690 --> 01:09.027\n或者找大家一起來同時找衛福部一起來這是第一個我覺得你們是不是感情不夠好照道理說部長你應該先找邱部長我們大家一起找看有關單位是誰來海關檢查警察哪些單位一起來菸商一起來\n\n01:10.709 --> 01:30.655\n直接發文給他在我看來你們兩個感情是很好的好來你不用解釋我今天時間有限我今天問題很多但是5月27號我們衛福部就發了一個電子煙箱的查緝平台對於後續未來各部會怎麼去從源頭去做管理我們去做一些討論那\n\n01:32.795 --> 01:59.590\n相較之下我覺得這也凸顯出我們包括我看到衛福部我們的國建署在6月17號就在媒體發出聲明就是說我們對目前財閥的這個數目我們是非常滿意的財閥的數量高但是同時我覺得財政部也沒有錯因為我們違法的數件也高\n\n02:02.057 --> 02:18.823\n財閥的數量高跟我們違法數量高這是兩件不一樣的事情代表我們違反的人特別多這個也是我要提醒衛福部的地方違規的人多當然你財閥數量也高啊相對的不斷都在提高啊所以\n\n02:20.031 --> 02:38.097\n我覺得這並不代表財政部杞人憂天但是邱部長我憑良心講我能夠理解財政部的擔心因為我看到國建署提供的數據從今年1月到5月我們全國查緝電子菸的數量只有158件家人菸總共有1445件網路平台裁罰的只有7件\n\n02:46.892 --> 02:51.278\n這個數據我現在講的數字你應該都很清楚但是我們底下的黑數\n\n03:01.306 --> 03:23.002\n是這個的幾倍你們知道嗎你有聽到嗎邱部長我們從供應面換色面使用面其實都是結合各部會對啦我說你知道黑素有可能是這個的幾倍你知道嗎那你知道黑素比這個都多很多所說的數目不曉得吳司長有沒有誰可以回應我\n\n03:25.339 --> 03:33.507\n謝謝李委員的關心那過去移送裁法的案件有一些事還沒有裁法還在行政調查當中你覺得黑數是現在查緝到的可能的幾倍所以比現在查緝到的更多\n\n03:46.533 --> 04:00.228\n有沒有可能應該當然查緝到的跟沒有查緝到的當然都有啦部長你都不敢承認我就直接告訴你黑數恐怕是你們查緝到的數十倍以上好來我要以網路販售為例\n\n04:03.872 --> 04:31.503\n我們現在網路上根本就不能賣菸嘛你們很清楚嘛無論是菸品或電子菸都是依法都是全面禁止的但是我們光從Google上面就可以輕易找到三家在網路上販賣加熱菸或電子菸或者我們年輕人現在從IG也好臉書也好或者有一些LINE的社群都會告訴大家你要抽電子菸你要去哪裡買\n\n04:32.984 --> 04:52.497\n所以就是說我們現在國建署對外只是蝦皮啦露天啦或者跟有一些平台業者合作獲得出口的控制但是買這些私菸的狀況事實上有太多的管道都不再列入你們現在茶企的範圍之內所以\n\n04:54.878 --> 05:04.201\n今天為什麼張偉排了這個專報就是對於目前茶季失焉的部分對於你們目前所掌握到的管道事實上大家是不滿意的這也凸顯出財政部的憂慮事實上是沒有錯的\n\n05:12.443 --> 05:22.612\n所以我覺得在茶器的部分我還是要提醒邱部長我們還是有精進的功能你不可以只看蝦皮露天因為現在很多人賴群組有在抽這個電子菸他們自己有跟你講到哪裡去買所以目前我看到的\n\n05:28.837 --> 05:55.632\n其實用心一點大家都知道翠上面也有人在糾團在餵啦所以我覺得這個是你要去注意的地方但是部長邱部長你可以站旁邊來莊部長但是我覺得你經濟的地方還有一些地方可以去做處理就是說翠上面我有看到網路在分享譬如說小港機場有人講說我們現在拖運的行李都會照S光你多帶菸大家都看得到你帶什麼微鏡瓶都看得到\n\n05:56.252 --> 06:15.988\n但是手提的就沒有經過X光機嘛就是用目測看你有沒有多帶多買嘛但是往往我就看到TRE上面有一個漏洞喔有人就是我先手提用拿的當我經過因為我們現在有那個驗那個豬肉的那個豬瘟非洲豬瘟嘛但非洲豬瘟不管菸品嘛部長你知道嘛你帶十條菸你帶二十條電子菸他沒有看嘛因為他只看有沒有帶豬肉嘛\n\n06:25.995 --> 06:29.597\n他拿完通過那個X光機查有沒有豬瘟的時候他就走到廁所去那他就把他所買的電子菸全部都塞到T0的行李裡面你就沒看到嘛所以我只講這個案例給你事實上查緝私菸不是只有衛福部的責任事實上財政部有很多可以精進的作為\n\n06:48.587 --> 07:03.679\n所以這是我今天在提醒你們的地方好我這個議題到此結束來部長你們都可以請邱部長你可以請回莊部長你可以留下來部長你要再留下來對不起我還有第二個議題好那個你們其他可以請回就是說上個月我有質詢那個不印證的議題就是說如何對於不印證的那個補助的扣除額的部分現在你們本來是要求前三年要會計制度完備現在改成前一年就好了看起來是放寬了\n\n07:18.010 --> 07:35.733\n但是我要提醒的是我們做這件事情當時賴慧雯是召委我們都同意說事實上我們政府做這件事情我們扣除的目的是要維持基本生活的必要支出還有我們政府認為這件事情應該是要給予扣除跟\n\n07:37.146 --> 07:52.608\n補助的所以那個扣除而改成一年這個事情跟不孕症夫妻事實上是沒有足夠原因這是兩件事情我覺得應該把重心放在如何讓診所採取何種報稅的方式\n\n07:53.809 --> 07:57.652\n就是不應該把它放在你是哪一種報稅方式而是應該確認民眾確實他因為做不孕症的這個醫療他可以得到補助這個核心問題應該是在這邊而不是說你報稅制度完被改成三年改成兩年我覺得這件事情我仍舊不認同\n\n08:13.986 --> 08:41.218\n我希望你可以回去考慮那第二點就是說我覺得你們目前無論是次費補助或健保補助你有四種方式無論是查證核實或書面審查或前三年的這個平均損益或按費用的費率來做申報這是屬於健保診所的部分但是事實上對於現在次費的部分你要求說你一定要用按費用率來去做申報\n\n08:42.538 --> 08:52.093\n不管是健保有沒有健保或自費我覺得你不應該有兩套制度才來去叫做會計制度的完備我覺得這個對於我們對於政府獎勵就是說\n\n08:57.922 --> 09:23.419\n補助就是你可以做不印證就扣除了這件事情我覺得應該是回到一些基本包括大法官701號也有解釋說對於醫療費用支出稅增機關應該本於職權審核至於用哪一種審核方式不應該增加行政稽查的成本否則用特定的申報方式是有違反平等原則\n\n09:24.660 --> 09:44.220\n這是大法官701號的解釋我要提醒您所以不管是健保或者是自費我覺得應該都要用便民的方式來去做處理也不應該違反平等原則最後我要請邱部長衛福部有要求你就是說對於做不孕症的部分我們本來要求說\n\n09:46.122 --> 10:11.196\n財政部有建議衛福部說應該要會計制度的完備你才可以申請到那個不孕症的補助對不對他有要求這件事情嗎我剛剛講的那個是扣除額的部分那我是講人工生殖的補助這部分我們補助的全部免稅對不起你再講一次如果由國健署補助的\n\n10:12.182 --> 10:34.680\n對啦事實上我覺得跟委員報告我支持衛福部只要是政府補救的費用多免納入報稅免稅這是兩件事我們現在對但是現在衛福財政部要求說應該會計制度完備才可以你到醫院才可以領到那個人工生殖補助我剛剛這是兩件事情剛剛我講的是\n\n10:35.521 --> 11:03.295\n扣除額在你的每年要繳的稅的扣除額我現在講的是國建署現在目前那個補助的要件的修正跟調整喔所以我絕對支持衛福部現在不用去管會計制度有沒有完備你只要有做我就給你補助這個是我們政府給予補助的目的所以財政部這樣是你不要去介入他那麼多因為\n\n11:04.315 --> 11:23.604\n我們政府目的是不是要補助給這些年輕人你不認證的困難我就是給你補助讓你去做有沒有自費或有沒有健保這都不是當時選擇這些診所條件他只要選擇說我覺得這個醫生好做有機會成功風評不錯我就要去這家醫院做他馬去管說請問你這家醫院有沒有會計制度完備\n\n11:24.804 --> 11:28.668\n我覺得這個是不對的所以我絕對支持衛福部的做法\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.569,"end":25.544,"text":"每一次我們委員會的這個重要的議題你都親自來代表你對本委員會的重視也代表你對私菸茶器的重視5月20號的時候針對於私菸茶器的部分我們才任務發文給五大菸商就是對於我們目前加熱菸的違法達到96萬包跟去年相比113年同期相比增加了44萬"},{"start":27.805,"end":43.533,"text":"所以我們財政部就發文問了菸商說我們到底應該怎麼做這麼多私菸但是我們大家都知道私菸的管理查緝事實上重要的責任是在衛福部我覺得這個做法當然可以財政部做了 莊部長做了當然沒錯但是我們有橫向聯繫的部門怎麼沒有第一時間先找衛福部商量"},{"start":51.69,"end":69.027,"text":"或者找大家一起來同時找衛福部一起來這是第一個我覺得你們是不是感情不夠好照道理說部長你應該先找邱部長我們大家一起找看有關單位是誰來海關 檢查 警察哪些單位一起來 菸商一起來"},{"start":70.709,"end":90.655,"text":"直接發文給他在我看來你們兩個感情是很好的好來你不用解釋我今天時間有限我今天問題很多但是5月27號我們衛福部就發了一個電子煙箱的查緝平台對於後續未來各部會怎麼去從源頭去做管理我們去做一些討論那"},{"start":92.795,"end":119.59,"text":"相較之下我覺得這也凸顯出我們包括我看到衛福部我們的國建署在6月17號就在媒體發出聲明就是說我們對目前財閥的這個數目我們是非常滿意的財閥的數量高但是同時我覺得財政部也沒有錯因為我們違法的數件也高"},{"start":122.057,"end":138.823,"text":"財閥的數量高跟我們違法數量高這是兩件不一樣的事情代表我們違反的人特別多這個也是我要提醒衛福部的地方違規的人多當然你財閥數量也高啊相對的不斷都在提高啊所以"},{"start":140.031,"end":158.097,"text":"我覺得這並不代表財政部杞人憂天但是邱部長我憑良心講我能夠理解財政部的擔心因為我看到國建署提供的數據從今年1月到5月我們全國查緝電子菸的數量只有158件家人菸總共有1445件網路平台裁罰的只有7件"},{"start":166.892,"end":171.278,"text":"這個數據 我現在講的數字你應該都很清楚但是我們底下的黑數"},{"start":181.306,"end":203.002,"text":"是這個的幾倍你們知道嗎你有聽到嗎 邱部長我們從供應面 換色面 使用面其實都是結合各部會對啦 我說你知道黑素有可能是這個的幾倍你知道嗎那你知道黑素比這個都多很多所說的數目不曉得吳司長有沒有誰可以回應我"},{"start":205.339,"end":213.507,"text":"謝謝李委員的關心那過去移送裁法的案件有一些事還沒有裁法還在行政調查當中你覺得黑數是現在查緝到的可能的幾倍所以比現在查緝到的更多"},{"start":226.533,"end":240.228,"text":"有沒有可能應該當然查緝到的跟沒有查緝到的當然都有啦部長你都不敢承認我就直接告訴你黑數恐怕是你們查緝到的數十倍以上好來我要以網路販售為例"},{"start":243.872,"end":271.503,"text":"我們現在網路上根本就不能賣菸嘛你們很清楚嘛無論是菸品或電子菸都是依法都是全面禁止的但是我們光從Google上面就可以輕易找到三家在網路上販賣加熱菸或電子菸或者我們年輕人現在從IG也好臉書也好或者有一些LINE的社群都會告訴大家你要抽電子菸你要去哪裡買"},{"start":272.984,"end":292.497,"text":"所以就是說我們現在國建署對外只是蝦皮啦露天啦或者跟有一些平台業者合作獲得出口的控制但是買這些私菸的狀況事實上有太多的管道都不再列入你們現在茶企的範圍之內所以"},{"start":294.878,"end":304.201,"text":"今天為什麼張偉排了這個專報就是對於目前茶季失焉的部分對於你們目前所掌握到的管道事實上大家是不滿意的這也凸顯出財政部的憂慮事實上是沒有錯的"},{"start":312.443,"end":322.612,"text":"所以我覺得在茶器的部分我還是要提醒邱部長我們還是有精進的功能你不可以只看蝦皮露天因為現在很多人賴群組有在抽這個電子菸他們自己有跟你講到哪裡去買所以目前我看到的"},{"start":328.837,"end":355.632,"text":"其實用心一點大家都知道 翠上面也有人在糾團在餵啦所以我覺得這個是你要去注意的地方但是部長 邱部長你可以站旁邊 來 莊部長但是我覺得你經濟的地方還有一些地方可以去做處理就是說翠上面我有看到網路在分享譬如說小港機場有人講說我們現在拖運的行李都會照S光你多帶菸大家都看得到 你帶什麼微鏡瓶都看得到"},{"start":356.252,"end":375.988,"text":"但是手提的就沒有經過X光機嘛就是用目測看你有沒有多帶多買嘛但是往往我就看到TRE上面有一個漏洞喔有人就是我先手提用拿的當我經過因為我們現在有那個驗那個豬肉的那個豬瘟非洲豬瘟嘛但非洲豬瘟不管菸品嘛部長你知道嘛你帶十條菸你帶二十條電子菸他沒有看嘛因為他只看有沒有帶豬肉嘛"},{"start":385.995,"end":389.597,"text":"他拿完通過那個X光機查有沒有豬瘟的時候他就走到廁所去那他就把他所買的電子菸全部都塞到T0的行李裡面你就沒看到嘛所以我只講這個案例給你事實上查緝私菸不是只有衛福部的責任事實上財政部有很多可以精進的作為"},{"start":408.587,"end":423.679,"text":"所以這是我今天在提醒你們的地方好 我這個議題到此結束來 部長你們都可以請邱部長你可以請回 莊部長你可以留下來部長你要再留下來對不起 我還有第二個議題好 那個你們其他可以請回就是說上個月我有質詢那個不印證的議題就是說如何對於不印證的那個補助的扣除額的部分現在你們本來是要求前三年要會計制度完備現在改成前一年就好了看起來是放寬了"},{"start":438.01,"end":455.733,"text":"但是我要提醒的是我們做這件事情當時賴慧雯是召委我們都同意說事實上我們政府做這件事情我們扣除的目的是要維持基本生活的必要支出還有我們政府認為這件事情應該是要給予扣除跟"},{"start":457.146,"end":472.608,"text":"補助的所以那個扣除而改成一年這個事情跟不孕症夫妻事實上是沒有足夠原因這是兩件事情我覺得應該把重心放在如何讓診所採取何種報稅的方式"},{"start":473.809,"end":477.652,"text":"就是不應該把它放在你是哪一種報稅方式而是應該確認民眾確實他因為做不孕症的這個醫療他可以得到補助這個核心問題應該是在這邊而不是說你報稅制度完被改成三年改成兩年我覺得這件事情我仍舊不認同"},{"start":493.986,"end":521.218,"text":"我希望你可以回去考慮那第二點就是說我覺得你們目前無論是次費補助或健保補助你有四種方式無論是查證核實或書面審查或前三年的這個平均損益或按費用的費率來做申報這是屬於健保診所的部分但是事實上對於現在次費的部分你要求說你一定要用按費用率來去做申報"},{"start":522.538,"end":532.093,"text":"不管是健保有沒有健保或自費我覺得你不應該有兩套制度才來去叫做會計制度的完備我覺得這個對於我們對於政府獎勵就是說"},{"start":537.922,"end":563.419,"text":"補助 就是你可以做不印證就扣除了這件事情我覺得應該是回到一些基本包括大法官701號也有解釋說對於醫療費用支出 稅增機關應該本於職權審核至於用哪一種審核方式不應該增加行政稽查的成本否則用特定的申報方式是有違反平等原則"},{"start":564.66,"end":584.22,"text":"這是大法官701號的解釋我要提醒您所以不管是健保或者是自費我覺得應該都要用便民的方式來去做處理也不應該違反平等原則最後我要請邱部長衛福部有要求你就是說對於做不孕症的部分我們本來要求說"},{"start":586.122,"end":611.196,"text":"財政部有建議衛福部說應該要會計制度的完備你才可以申請到那個不孕症的補助對不對他有要求這件事情嗎我剛剛講的那個是扣除額的部分那我是講人工生殖的補助這部分我們補助的全部免稅對不起你再講一次如果由國健署補助的"},{"start":612.182,"end":634.68,"text":"對啦 事實上我覺得跟委員報告我支持衛福部只要是政府補救的費用多免納入報稅免稅這是兩件事我們現在對但是現在衛福財政部要求說應該會計制度完備才可以你到醫院才可以領到那個人工生殖補助我剛剛這是兩件事情剛剛我講的是"},{"start":635.521,"end":663.295,"text":"扣除額 在你的每年要繳的稅的扣除額我現在講的是國建署現在目前那個補助的要件的修正跟調整喔所以我絕對支持衛福部現在不用去管會計制度有沒有完備 你只要有做我就給你補助 這個是我們政府給予補助的目的所以財政部這樣是 你不要去介入他那麼多 因為"},{"start":664.315,"end":683.604,"text":"我們政府目的是不是要補助給這些年輕人你不認證的困難我就是給你補助讓你去做有沒有自費或有沒有健保這都不是當時選擇這些診所條件他只要選擇說我覺得這個醫生好做有機會成功風評不錯我就要去這家醫院做他馬去管說請問你這家醫院有沒有會計制度完備"},{"start":684.804,"end":688.668,"text":"我覺得這個是不對的所以我絕對支持衛福部的做法"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":692,"blocks":[["李委員彥秀：（10時56分）我請財政部部長跟邱部長。"],["主席：兩位部長請。"],["李委員彥秀：感謝邱部長，每一次我們委員會討論重要的議題你都親自來，代表你對本委員會的重視，也代表你對私菸查緝的重視。"],["邱部長泰源：不敢當。"],["李委員彥秀：在5月20號針對私菸查緝的部分，財政部發文給五大菸商，就是我們目前加熱菸的違法達到96萬包，跟113年同期相比增加了44萬包，所以財政部就發文問菸商，現在有這麼多私菸，我們到底應該要怎麼做？但是我們大家都知道，事實上，私菸管理查緝的主要責任是在衛福部，我覺得這個作法當然可以，財政部莊部長的作法當然沒錯，但是我們有橫向聯繫的部門啊！怎麼沒有在第一時間先找衛福部商量？或者同時找衛福部大家一起來？這是第一個，我覺得你們是不是感情不夠好？照道理說，莊部長，你應該先找邱部長，然後大家一起找，看有關單位是誰要來，海關、檢察、警察，甚至菸商一起來，直接發文給他。在我看來，你們兩個感情是不好。"],["莊部長翠雲：我們機關之間的聯繫都很通暢，謝謝。"],["李委員彥秀：你不用解釋，因為我時間有限，我今天問題很多。但是5月27日衛福部就發了一個「電子煙查緝平臺」，對於後續未來各部會怎麼從源頭做管理去做一些討論，相較之下，這也凸顯出……包括衛福部國健署6月17日就在媒體發出聲明，對於目前裁罰的數目是非常滿意的。不只裁罰的數量高，但是同時我覺得財政部也沒有錯，因為我們違法的數量也高，裁罰的數量高與違法數量高是兩件不一樣的事情，代表違反的人特別多。這個也是我要提醒衛福部的地方，違規的人多，當然你裁罰的數量也高，相對地不斷都在提高，所以我覺得這並不代表財政部在杞人憂天。但是邱部長，憑良心講，我能夠理解財政部的擔心，因為我看到國健署提供的數據，從今年1月到5月，全國查獲電子煙的數量只有158件，加熱菸總共有1,445件，網路平臺業者遭裁罰的只有7件。對於這個數據，邱部長，我現在說的數字你應該都很清楚，但是你們知道底下的黑數是這個的幾倍嗎？你有聽過嗎？邱部長，你有沒有聽過？"],["邱部長泰源：報告委員，我們從供應面、販售面、使用面其實都是結合各部會在……"],["李委員彥秀：對啦！部長，我說你知道黑數有可能是這個的幾倍，你知道嗎？"],["邱部長泰源：我想這個剛剛委員……"],["李委員彥秀：好，那你知道黑數比這個都多很多？"],["邱部長泰源：委員所說的數目，不曉得吳署長有沒有……"],["李委員彥秀：誰可以回應我？"],["吳署長昭軍：謝謝李委員的垂詢……"],["李委員彥秀：簡單就好了，因為我今天議題很多。"],["吳署長昭軍：我想是這樣子，過去移送裁罰的案件……"],["李委員彥秀：你只要跟我講，黑數是不是比你們查緝的更多？"],["吳署長昭軍：有一些是還沒有裁罰，還在行政調查當中。"],["李委員彥秀：這麼久了，你們裁這麼久還沒……來，莊部長，你覺得黑數可能是現在查緝到的幾倍？是不是比現在查緝到的更多？有沒有可能？"],["邱部長泰源：應該……當然查緝到的跟沒有查緝到的當然都有啦！"],["李委員彥秀：部長，你都不敢承認，我就直接告訴你，黑數恐怕是你們查緝到的數十倍以上。我以網路販售為例，現在網路上根本就不能賣菸嘛，你們很清楚，無論是菸品或電子煙依法都是全面禁止的，但是我們光從Google上面就可以輕易找到3家，在網路上販賣加熱菸或電子煙，或者我們年輕人現在從IG也好、臉書也好，或者有一些LINE的社群都會告訴大家要抽電子煙可以去哪裡買，所以現在國健署對外只是跟蝦皮、露天，或者跟有一些平臺業者合作，獲得初步的控制，但是買這些私菸的狀況，事實上有太多的管道都不列入你們現在查緝的範圍之內，所以今天為什麼召委排了這個專報？就是對於目前查緝私菸的部分，對於你們目前所掌握到的管道，事實上大家是不滿意的，這也凸顯出財政部的憂慮事實上是沒有錯的。","所以，我覺得在查緝的部分，我還是要提醒邱部長，我們還是有精進的空間，你不能只看蝦皮、露天，因為現在很多人LINE群組有在抽電子煙，他們自己會跟你講到哪裡去買，所以目前我看到的，其實用心一點，大家都知道，Threads上面也有人在揪團買，所以我覺得這個是你要去注意的地方。","莊部長，我覺得你還有一些精進的地方可以去做處理，我有看到網路、Threads上面在分享，譬如說小港機場，有人講現在拖運的行李都會照X光，你多帶菸大家都看得到，你帶什麼違禁品也都看得到，但是手提的就沒有經過X光機嘛，都是用目測看你有沒有多帶、多買，我就看到Threads上面有一個漏洞，有人就是先手提用拿的，當他經過……因為我們現在有驗非洲豬瘟，非洲豬瘟不管菸品，部長你知道嘛！你帶十條菸，你帶二十條電子煙，他不會看，因為他只看有沒有帶豬肉嘛！他拿完並通過X光機查有沒有豬瘟之後，他就走到廁所去，他就把他所買的電子煙全部都塞到手提的行李裡面，你就沒看到了。我只講這個案例給你，事實上，查緝私菸不是只有衛福部的責任，事實上，財政部有很多可以精進的作為，所以這是我今天要提醒你們的地方。好，我這個議題到此結束。","第二個議題，上個月我有質詢不孕症的議題，就是對於不孕症補助扣除額的部分，你們本來是要求前三年要會計制度完備，現在改成前一年就好了，看起來是放寬了，但是我要提醒的是，我們做這件事情時，當時賴惠員是召委，我們都同意說，事實上我們政府做這件事情，我們扣除額的目的是要維持基本生活的必要支出，還有我們政府認為這件事情應該是要給予扣除跟補助的，所以那個扣除額改成一年這個事情，跟不孕症夫妻事實上沒有足夠的……這是兩件事情，我覺得不應該把重心放在診所採取哪一種報稅方式，而是應該確認民眾確實因為做不孕症的醫療，他可以得到補助，這個核心問題應該是在這邊，而不是你報稅制度完備改成三年、改成兩年，我覺得這件事情我仍舊不認同，我希望你可以回去考慮。","第二點，你們目前無論是自費補助或健保補助，你有四種方式，無論是查證核實或書面審查，或前三年的平均損益或按費用的費率來做申報，這是屬於健保診所的部分，但是事實上對於現在自費的部分，你要求他們一定要按費用率來去做申報，不管有沒有健保或自費，我覺得你不應該有兩套制度，才叫做會計制度的完備，我們對於政府獎勵……就是補助，就是他們做不孕症就可以扣除的這件事情，我覺得應該是回到一些基本的，包括大法官釋字第701號也有解釋，對於醫療費用支出，稅捐機關應該本於職權審核，至於用哪一種審核方式，不應該增加行政稽查的成本，否則用特定的申報方式是違反平等原則，這是大法官釋字第701號的解釋，我要提醒您。所以不管是健保或者是自費，我覺得應該都要用便民的方式來去做處理，也不應該違反平等原則。","最後我要請邱部長，對於做不孕症的部分，財政部有建議衛福部說應該要符合會計制度的完備，你才可以申請到不孕症的補助，對不對？它有要求這件事情吧？"],["邱部長泰源：那個是沒有特約的……"],["李委員彥秀：我剛剛講的那個是扣除額的部分，但我是講人工生殖的補助這部分。"],["邱部長泰源：我們補助的全部免稅。"],["李委員彥秀：對不起，你再講一次。"],["邱部長泰源：如果由國健署補助的……"],["李委員彥秀：對啦！事實上，我覺得我支持衛福部……"],["吳署長昭軍：跟委員報告，只要是政府補助的費用，都免納入報稅免稅額。"],["李委員彥秀：這是兩件事，但是現在財政部要求應該要會計制度完備才可以，他到醫院才可以領到人工生殖補助，這是兩件事情，剛剛我講的是扣除額，在他每一年要繳的稅的扣除額，我現在講的是國健署目前補助要件的修正跟調整，所以我絕對支持衛福部現在不用去管會計制度有沒有完備，他只要有做，我就給他補助，這個是我們政府給予補助的目的，所以財政部不要去介入他那麼多，因為我們政府目的是要補助給這些年輕人，他有不孕症的困難，我就是給他補助，讓他去做，有沒有自費或有沒有健保，這都不是當時選擇這些診所……他只要選擇做，他覺得這個醫生好，做了有機會成功，風評不錯，他就要去這家醫院做，他哪會去管這家醫院有沒有會計制度完備，我覺得這個是不對的，所以我絕對支持衛福部的作法。以上是我今天的質詢，謝謝。"],["莊部長翠雲：我們再跟委員做說明，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝李委員的質詢。下一位請陳玉珍委員質詢。","報告委員會，剛剛宣布過，陳玉珍委員質詢完畢以後，我們休息10分鐘，剛剛宣布過。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":266,"meet_id":"委員會-11-3-20-18","speakers":["賴士葆","林德福","吳秉叡","郭國文","鍾佳濱","賴惠員","李坤城","顏寬恒","李彥秀","陳玉珍","林思銘","黃珊珊","王世堅","葉元之","林月琴","王育敏","羅明才","陳昭姿","翁曉玲","張啓楷","麥玉珍","蘇清泉","謝龍介","徐欣瑩"],"page_start":197,"meetingDate":["2025-06-19"],"gazette_id":"1146101","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1146101_00006"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期財政委員會第18次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請財政部莊部長翠雲、衛生福利部邱部長泰源、法務部、海洋委員會海巡署就「近三年菸酒管\n理法對於私菸（含電子菸 加熱菸）查緝成效與菸品健康捐經費分配及運作使用情形」進行專題\n報告，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1146101_00005"}}}