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\"台\", \"start\": 624.269, \"end\": 624.289, \"score\": 0.008}, {\"word\": \"諮\"}, {\"word\": \"詢\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:00,069 --> 00:00:03,931\n我看你今天早上特別說為了以色列跟伊朗親自衝突要開國安會議\n\n2\n00:00:20,330 --> 00:00:36,379\n你說針對那個石油跟天然氣的這個價格行政院長應該今天,因為我雖然在這裡沒有開院會,我都有掌握啊他已經有所裁示市長,這次這個衝突啊,彰顯了我們要好好去重視我們的錯誤的能源政策博帝知道嗎,我們現在天然氣佔我們所有發電的佔比多少知道嗎\n\n3\n00:00:44,229 --> 00:00:53,844\n這個朝五成邁進不錯蠻精準的古尼47嘛那現在核冷廢掉之後已經將近五成了那這次這個金色衝突就看到啦\n\n4\n00:00:54,929 --> 00:01:23,457\n第一個石油跟天然氣在飆漲嘛所以你們要開國安會議嘛這是第一次嘛第二次也是很重要的啊你有沒有發現烏俄戰爭的時候就炸那個天然氣的儲存槽啊對不對是那這是一樣啊你看這個以色列馬上就打的也是對對不對能源跟通訊啊大概是戰爭發生的時候就是第一集啊大概關鍵基礎設施所以你要開火兩個重點第一這個能源政策要好好去想一下你高度依賴天然氣這本身是個問題\n\n5\n00:01:24,719 --> 00:01:37,430\n那第二個,上次我肯定你就是,高關稅這個談判裡面,我們要找到美國願意賣給我們,而且是我們要的嘛,會給我們一個共識,是,你說你爭取要跟美國買核能的技術跟他們的設備,對不對?沒有啦,我是覺得應該是先解決核廢料,其實美國、法國他們都有很先進可以處理核廢料,\n\n6\n00:01:49,901 --> 00:02:09,845\n因為AIT處長肯定會說什麼他就是說在核能的技術還有包括核會的處理他們要幫忙他已經講了三次了到後來他受不了他推特上面他自己都還貼上去你不是說要去反應嗎你贊成你沒有去反應我有反應啦有反應美國應該很高興啊\n\n7\n00:02:11,954 --> 00:02:20,576\n因為你賣給我們我們第一個我們這個逆差就可以我們賺到錢就減少了所以採購是縮短貿易對我們的電力有幫助然後核電也有技術項目之一採購有齁那供料到底怎樣啦應該是華裔的啦這個有主管機關啦負責啦經濟部或者是這個跟這個好從這次的以色列跟伊朗的這個金氏衝突我們看到兩個很重大歧視第一個天然氣佔比太高這個抽油能源政策要去調整\n\n8\n00:02:40,922 --> 00:03:08,011\n第二個趕快再推動核電特別是美國已經主動開口了要賣給我們核電的技術跟設備包括你剛才說的核威力要處理我覺得委員剛剛提到一點除了這個能源結構以外我們這個天然氣跟油大量的依賴中東這次也說明了這是個風險所以我們會增加對美國的採購氣跟油也有增加能源韌性所以這個是國安的一部分\n\n9\n00:03:08,351 --> 00:03:23,939\n我贊成啦,你剛剛提到的,不過我跟你講美國現在那個,聽說成本比較高啦,搞不好價格會...它量大之後,價格就會下來,這個是...量大一點,然後要降下來,經濟保健公可能要比現在的,我們是所有天然氣賺的占比,10%是從美國來,那以後可能會變20%或30%,那量...你講的,保健公...量大的,價格就要降,不能夠一兩倍價格,這樣不行\n\n10\n00:03:31,002 --> 00:03:45,434\n所以除了採購如果我們投資的話我們就變成就是會反映在我們未來也有一定的籌碼我們贊成跟美國買天然氣可是價格不能太高來我們來談一個馬紹爾總統變成漏湯機的事情\n\n11\n00:03:49,574 --> 00:04:07,405\n這台鐵到底是外交部的疏忽還是總統府的不對跟委員報告這是總統府第三局的業務但是我是會代為說明我認為真的到他走到最後才突然間有一下雨而且真的他已經走到已經都進場然後已經在落場因為唱完國歌之後他要走回來的時候突然\n\n12\n00:04:14,689 --> 00:04:30,096\n有一個大雨陣雨啦馬紹爾那個總統你看看就是最後那一段你看那個頭起起那個是多大的雨然後你看這樣很不禮貌啦不是我覺得委員齁如果您有可以我用一分鐘時間說明一下齁因為他們馬紹爾這個海寧總統自己有發聲明喔\n\n13\n00:04:33,410 --> 00:04:50,686\n他自己有說明其實這完全沒有失禮而且對他們來講這個有一個突然間的陣雨這也是一種就是他們在他們文化裡面是代表下雨是一線就是這個所謂的這個好的祝福但我們不去講這個我講的是說他的標準作業程序其實他從車子到然後進場\n\n14\n00:04:56,631 --> 00:05:25,024\n到唱國歌然後這個三軍儀隊的禮炮都完了他在做閱兵的時候在走最後彎回來的那一段突然間有個陣雨這個其實是標準作業程序就是把它走完以前也是這個樣子所以外面的人因為沒有去了解這整個過程就造成誤會好像我們故意要去漏這個雨然後好像很失禮我們又好像引以為是一件好事廣正那清德賴總統最近出訪的話淋了雨你會這樣講嗎\n\n15\n00:05:26,204 --> 00:05:28,286\n其實有兩個問題嘛第一個是你氣象報告的掌握這是一個問題嘛第二個你隨時要應變啊現在總統出來講是什麼因為三軍儀隊都是沒有拿雨傘的跟穿雨衣的在現場這是兩國的國事訪問耶\n\n16\n00:05:42,757 --> 00:05:58,262\n所以其實這個就是標準作為澄清我為什麼說我說外交是專業有一些批評我必須要澄清是因為我覺得我們看專業啦保定你幫人要辯護啦不然被困在外面來這是第三局的業務啦2017年來來來保定你看一下你看看你當然有專業我知道這也是專業啦2017年蔡英文總統抵達荒都拉斯的時候進行經理你看人家去繞路經理上面當然是可以撐傘的為什麼不行\n\n17\n00:06:09,298 --> 00:06:20,911\n你講一般的專業可是更重要的專業跟尊重專業跟尊重就是像這樣蔡英文總統沒有被淋雨嘛我也很滿意賴清德總統說的沒有淋上去是不是這樣如果有問題就要去解決問題不要一直用專業這個名詞這個也是專業啊洪都大使人家專不專業這兩個都是專業情況不一樣都處理得很好\n\n18\n00:06:31,933 --> 00:06:49,786\n不過至少不要讓我們總統出去淋雨啦好不好沒有我現在是要說明就是說那天的國事訪問的整個軍理過程都合乎規定而且雙方面都認為這樣是很正常至於說外面如果斷章取義我作為外交部長我必須替總統府第三局來說\n\n19\n00:06:50,486 --> 00:07:20,286\n我們應該講說這是天上的祝福嘛這個就是現場的時候海里總統講的話因為我跟他很熟他也用這樣的話講所以我們才會引據來作為一個說明好啦你至少也承認人家國外的專業嘛對不對我們自己如果真的有失誤這兩個都是專業這沒有衝突不過林大比總是不好的OK好啦最後有點時間大概一分鐘好不好趕快早上我看很多人在問你這個去以色列度假打工這個事情你剛講的一個計畫很重要啊\n\n20\n00:07:21,186 --> 00:07:42,251\n以色列就是一個長年戰爭威脅的地方嘛對他們有避難設施隨時那個警示隨時的通訊所以其實他們的狀況我們不能夠用外人去理解在那邊生活不管是在那邊已經定居或者是工作或者在那邊求學的人他的選擇就是我們必須如果你強迫他撤離\n\n21\n00:07:44,031 --> 00:08:03,675\n因為它跟伊朗的情形不一樣那因為國際上也是就是維持度假打工而且都要有受理這個不是說一公佈就一堆人去啊所以不能夠把這個程序壓縮好像我們鼓勵大家去暫地冒著風險這個這個不好啦因為這個會造成誤會這個度假打工這個合作必須要什麼時候簽這個之前簽嘛有生效日嘛我們就按照這個因為你突然間還沒有進入到更\n\n22\n00:08:13,937 --> 00:08:40,998\n更高的警示等級你自己單方面去做一些行動這在外交上是是很不合宜的啦現在問題出在哪裡就是2023年12月27號要簽這個備忘錄的時候那時候中東的情勢應該已經是緊張了吧那時候以色列跟以哈應該就已經開打了吧我肯定我知道我們的外交人員是辛苦我們國家處境也是困難的要多一些交流這個我們都肯定可是在交流跟國人生命安全之間\n\n23\n00:08:42,196 --> 00:08:47,139\n它是2023年10月10月7號發生戰爭嘛那我意思是說其實這種常年在威脅之下就像我們不要讓國際人認為說台灣很危險都不能來一樣我說這個怎麼樣去符合實際啊但是我意思是說他們的這些避難或安全的措施做得非常好全社會防禦任性全民皆兵\n\n24\n00:09:07,152 --> 00:09:25,826\n我們不要是用外人因為我們任何一個動作都會讓他覺得說那以後我們台灣咧只要有一個什麼樣的中共的動作那全世界人都不要來嘛這個都是我們有長遠的思考啊而且是對等的第一我們台灣比以色列安全很多啦第二個當然我知道我們外國人也很辛苦當然台灣台灣北一東京交流比較推的部長我今天要跟你討論的是當初要簽這個備忘錄的時候以哈戰爭那時候中東已經緊張了所以要簽這個要更謹慎我不是反對簽啦\n\n25\n00:09:35,834 --> 00:09:39,875\n就是安全一定要注意啦這第一點第一點我跟妳說妳的這個度假打工的這個還在妳們這個網站上面耶妳至少蓋一個暫緩吧或者做一些說明吧因為它暫緩啦我剛才在看我上去看它還是應該有有貼暫緩的\n\n26\n00:09:57,097 --> 00:10:24,289\n對就是停止啦上面蓋一個暫緩嘛要嘛就先撤下來是個辦法啦好不好沒有沒有沒有其實雙方面簽的東西在那裡就是在那裡那因為行政程序在辦理的時候我們已經所以暫緩當然要繼續推動可以當然可是最重要的就是國人安全還是第一啦對不對國人安全第一個第二個既然已經是現在暫緩要把它講清楚好不好是實驗到同仁參考一下委員剛剛的提醒謝謝我們張啟台委員的諮詢接下來有林育君委員上台諮詢\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n69\t3931\t我看你今天早上特別說為了以色列跟伊朗親自衝突要開國安會議\n20330\t36379\t你說針對那個石油跟天然氣的這個價格行政院長應該今天,因為我雖然在這裡沒有開院會,我都有掌握啊他已經有所裁示市長,這次這個衝突啊,彰顯了我們要好好去重視我們的錯誤的能源政策博帝知道嗎,我們現在天然氣佔我們所有發電的佔比多少知道嗎\n44229\t53844\t這個朝五成邁進不錯 蠻精準的 古尼47嘛那現在核冷廢掉之後已經將近五成了那這次這個金色衝突就看到啦\n54929\t83457\t第一個石油跟天然氣在飆漲嘛所以你們要開國安會議嘛這是第一次嘛第二次也是很重要的啊你有沒有發現烏俄戰爭的時候就炸那個天然氣的儲存槽啊對不對是那這是一樣啊你看這個以色列馬上就打的也是對對不對能源跟通訊啊大概是戰爭發生的時候就是第一集啊大概關鍵基礎設施所以你要開火兩個重點第一這個能源政策要好好去想一下你高度依賴天然氣這本身是個問題\n84719\t97430\t那第二個,上次我肯定你就是,高關稅這個談判裡面,我們要找到美國願意賣給我們,而且是我們要的嘛,會給我們一個共識,是,你說你爭取要跟美國買核能的技術跟他們的設備,對不對?沒有啦,我是覺得應該是先解決核廢料,其實美國、法國他們都有很先進可以處理核廢料,\n109901\t129845\t因為AIT處長肯定會說什麼他就是說在核能的技術還有包括核會的處理他們要幫忙他已經講了三次了到後來他受不了他推特上面他自己都還貼上去你不是說要去反應嗎你贊成你沒有去反應我有反應啦有反應美國應該很高興啊\n131954\t140576\t因為你賣給我們 我們第一個我們這個逆差就可以 我們賺到錢就減少了所以採購是縮短貿易對我們的電力有幫助然後核電也有技術 項目之一 採購有齁 那供料到底怎樣啦應該是華裔的啦 這個有主管機關啦負責啦 經濟部或者是這個跟這個好 從這次的以色列跟伊朗的這個金氏衝突我們看到兩個很重大歧視 第一個天然氣佔比太高 這個抽油能源政策要去調整\n160922\t188011\t第二個趕快再推動核電特別是美國已經主動開口了要賣給我們核電的技術跟設備包括你剛才說的核威力要處理我覺得委員剛剛提到一點除了這個能源結構以外我們這個天然氣跟油大量的依賴中東這次也說明了這是個風險所以我們會增加對美國的採購氣跟油也有增加能源韌性所以這個是國安的一部分\n188351\t203939\t我贊成啦,你剛剛提到的,不過我跟你講美國現在那個,聽說成本比較高啦,搞不好價格會...它量大之後,價格就會下來,這個是...量大一點,然後要降下來,經濟保健公可能要比現在的,我們是所有天然氣賺的占比,10%是從美國來,那以後可能會變20%或30%,那量...你講的,保健公...量大的,價格就要降,不能夠一兩倍價格,這樣不行\n211002\t225434\t所以除了採購如果我們投資的話我們就變成就是會反映在我們未來也有一定的籌碼我們贊成跟美國買天然氣可是價格不能太高來 我們來談一個馬紹爾總統變成漏湯機的事情\n229574\t247405\t這台鐵到底是外交部的疏忽還是總統府的不對跟委員報告這是總統府第三局的業務但是我是會代為說明我認為真的到他走到最後才突然間有一下雨而且真的他已經走到已經都進場然後已經在落場因為唱完國歌之後他要走回來的時候突然\n254689\t270096\t有一個大雨 陣雨啦馬紹爾那個總統你看看就是最後那一段你看那個頭起起那個是多大的雨然後你看這樣很不禮貌啦不是 我覺得委員齁如果您有可以我用一分鐘時間說明一下齁因為他們馬紹爾這個海寧總統自己有發聲明喔\n273410\t290686\t他自己有說明其實這完全沒有失禮而且對他們來講這個有一個突然間的陣雨這也是一種就是他們在他們文化裡面是代表下雨是一線就是這個所謂的這個好的祝福但我們不去講這個我講的是說他的標準作業程序其實他從車子到然後進場\n296631\t325024\t到唱國歌然後這個三軍儀隊的禮炮都完了他在做閱兵的時候在走最後彎回來的那一段突然間有個陣雨這個其實是標準作業程序就是把它走完以前也是這個樣子所以外面的人因為沒有去了解這整個過程就造成誤會好像我們故意要去漏這個雨然後好像很失禮我們又好像引以為是一件好事 廣正那清德賴總統最近出訪的話淋了雨你會這樣講嗎\n326204\t328286\t其實有兩個問題嘛第一個是你氣象報告的掌握這是一個問題嘛第二個你隨時要應變啊現在總統出來講是什麼因為三軍儀隊都是沒有拿雨傘的跟穿雨衣的在現場這是兩國的國事訪問耶\n342757\t358262\t所以其實這個就是標準作為澄清我為什麼說我說外交是專業有一些批評我必須要澄清是因為我覺得我們看專業啦 保定你幫人要辯護啦 不然被困在外面來 這是第三局的業務啦2017年 來來來 保定你看一下你看看 你當然有專業 我知道這也是專業啦2017年蔡英文總統抵達荒都拉斯的時候 進行經理你看 人家去繞路經理上面當然是可以撐傘的 為什麼不行\n369298\t380911\t你講一般的專業 可是更重要的專業跟尊重 專業跟尊重就是像這樣蔡英文總統沒有被淋雨嘛 我也很滿意賴清德總統說的沒有淋上去是不是這樣如果有問題就要去解決問題 不要一直用專業這個名詞這個也是專業啊 洪都大使人家專不專業這兩個都是專業 情況不一樣 都處理得很好\n391933\t409786\t不過至少不要讓我們總統出去淋雨啦好不好沒有我現在是要說明就是說那天的國事訪問的整個軍理過程都合乎規定而且雙方面都認為這樣是很正常至於說外面如果斷章取義我作為外交部長我必須替總統府第三局來說\n410486\t440286\t我們應該講說這是天上的祝福嘛這個就是現場的時候海里總統講的話因為我跟他很熟他也用這樣的話講所以我們才會引據來作為一個說明好啦 你至少也承認人家國外的專業嘛對不對我們自己如果真的有失誤這兩個都是專業 這沒有衝突不過林大比總是不好的OK 好啦最後有點時間 大概一分鐘好不好趕快早上我看很多人在問你這個去以色列度假打工這個事情你剛講的一個計畫很重要啊\n441186\t462251\t以色列就是一個長年戰爭威脅的地方嘛對 他們有避難設施 隨時那個警示 隨時的通訊所以其實他們的狀況我們不能夠用外人去理解在那邊生活 不管是在那邊已經定居 或者是工作 或者在那邊求學的人他的選擇 就是我們必須 如果你強迫他撤離\n464031\t483675\t因為它跟伊朗的情形不一樣那因為國際上也是就是維持度假打工而且都要有受理這個不是說一公佈就一堆人去啊所以不能夠把這個程序壓縮好像我們鼓勵大家去暫地冒著風險這個這個不好啦因為這個會造成誤會這個度假打工這個合作必須要什麼時候簽這個之前簽嘛有生效日嘛我們就按照這個因為你突然間還沒有進入到更\n493937\t520998\t更高的警示等級你自己單方面去做一些行動這在外交上是是很不合宜的啦現在問題出在哪裡就是2023年12月27號要簽這個備忘錄的時候那時候中東的情勢應該已經是緊張了吧那時候以色列跟以哈應該就已經開打了吧我肯定我知道我們的外交人員是辛苦我們國家處境也是困難的要多一些交流這個我們都肯定可是在交流跟國人生命安全之間\n522196\t527139\t它是2023年10月10月7號發生戰爭嘛那我意思是說其實這種常年在威脅之下就像我們不要讓國際人認為說台灣很危險都不能來一樣我說這個怎麼樣去符合實際啊但是我意思是說他們的這些避難或安全的措施做得非常好全社會防禦任性 全民皆兵\n547152\t565826\t我們不要是用外人 因為我們任何一個動作都會讓他覺得說 那以後我們台灣咧只要有一個什麼樣的中共的動作 那全世界人都不要來嘛這個都是我們有長遠的思考啊 而且是對等的第一 我們台灣比以色列安全很多啦第二個 當然 我知道我們外國人也很辛苦當然台灣 台灣北一 東京交流比較推的部長 我今天要跟你討論的是 當初要簽這個備忘錄的時候以哈戰爭 那時候中東已經緊張了所以要簽這個要更謹慎 我不是反對簽啦\n575834\t579875\t就是安全一定要注意啦這第一點 第一點 我跟妳說妳的這個度假打工的這個還在妳們這個網站上面耶妳至少蓋一個暫緩吧或者做一些說明吧因為它暫緩啦我剛才在看 我上去看它還是應該有 有貼暫緩的\n597097\t624289\t對 就是停止啦上面蓋一個暫緩嘛要嘛就先撤下來是個辦法啦好不好沒有沒有沒有其實雙方面簽的東西在那裡就是在那裡那因為行政程序在辦理的時候我們已經所以暫緩 當然要繼續推動可以當然可是最重要的就是國人安全還是第一啦對不對 國人安全第一個第二個 既然已經是現在暫緩要把它講清楚好不好是 實驗到同仁參考一下委員剛剛的提醒謝謝我們張啟台委員的諮詢接下來有林育君委員上台諮詢\n","txt":"我看你今天早上特別說為了以色列跟伊朗親自衝突要開國安會議\n你說針對那個石油跟天然氣的這個價格行政院長應該今天,因為我雖然在這裡沒有開院會,我都有掌握啊他已經有所裁示市長,這次這個衝突啊,彰顯了我們要好好去重視我們的錯誤的能源政策博帝知道嗎,我們現在天然氣佔我們所有發電的佔比多少知道嗎\n這個朝五成邁進不錯 蠻精準的 古尼47嘛那現在核冷廢掉之後已經將近五成了那這次這個金色衝突就看到啦\n第一個石油跟天然氣在飆漲嘛所以你們要開國安會議嘛這是第一次嘛第二次也是很重要的啊你有沒有發現烏俄戰爭的時候就炸那個天然氣的儲存槽啊對不對是那這是一樣啊你看這個以色列馬上就打的也是對對不對能源跟通訊啊大概是戰爭發生的時候就是第一集啊大概關鍵基礎設施所以你要開火兩個重點第一這個能源政策要好好去想一下你高度依賴天然氣這本身是個問題\n那第二個,上次我肯定你就是,高關稅這個談判裡面,我們要找到美國願意賣給我們,而且是我們要的嘛,會給我們一個共識,是,你說你爭取要跟美國買核能的技術跟他們的設備,對不對?沒有啦,我是覺得應該是先解決核廢料,其實美國、法國他們都有很先進可以處理核廢料,\n因為AIT處長肯定會說什麼他就是說在核能的技術還有包括核會的處理他們要幫忙他已經講了三次了到後來他受不了他推特上面他自己都還貼上去你不是說要去反應嗎你贊成你沒有去反應我有反應啦有反應美國應該很高興啊\n因為你賣給我們 我們第一個我們這個逆差就可以 我們賺到錢就減少了所以採購是縮短貿易對我們的電力有幫助然後核電也有技術 項目之一 採購有齁 那供料到底怎樣啦應該是華裔的啦 這個有主管機關啦負責啦 經濟部或者是這個跟這個好 從這次的以色列跟伊朗的這個金氏衝突我們看到兩個很重大歧視 第一個天然氣佔比太高 這個抽油能源政策要去調整\n第二個趕快再推動核電特別是美國已經主動開口了要賣給我們核電的技術跟設備包括你剛才說的核威力要處理我覺得委員剛剛提到一點除了這個能源結構以外我們這個天然氣跟油大量的依賴中東這次也說明了這是個風險所以我們會增加對美國的採購氣跟油也有增加能源韌性所以這個是國安的一部分\n我贊成啦,你剛剛提到的,不過我跟你講美國現在那個,聽說成本比較高啦,搞不好價格會...它量大之後,價格就會下來,這個是...量大一點,然後要降下來,經濟保健公可能要比現在的,我們是所有天然氣賺的占比,10%是從美國來,那以後可能會變20%或30%,那量...你講的,保健公...量大的,價格就要降,不能夠一兩倍價格,這樣不行\n所以除了採購如果我們投資的話我們就變成就是會反映在我們未來也有一定的籌碼我們贊成跟美國買天然氣可是價格不能太高來 我們來談一個馬紹爾總統變成漏湯機的事情\n這台鐵到底是外交部的疏忽還是總統府的不對跟委員報告這是總統府第三局的業務但是我是會代為說明我認為真的到他走到最後才突然間有一下雨而且真的他已經走到已經都進場然後已經在落場因為唱完國歌之後他要走回來的時候突然\n有一個大雨 陣雨啦馬紹爾那個總統你看看就是最後那一段你看那個頭起起那個是多大的雨然後你看這樣很不禮貌啦不是 我覺得委員齁如果您有可以我用一分鐘時間說明一下齁因為他們馬紹爾這個海寧總統自己有發聲明喔\n他自己有說明其實這完全沒有失禮而且對他們來講這個有一個突然間的陣雨這也是一種就是他們在他們文化裡面是代表下雨是一線就是這個所謂的這個好的祝福但我們不去講這個我講的是說他的標準作業程序其實他從車子到然後進場\n到唱國歌然後這個三軍儀隊的禮炮都完了他在做閱兵的時候在走最後彎回來的那一段突然間有個陣雨這個其實是標準作業程序就是把它走完以前也是這個樣子所以外面的人因為沒有去了解這整個過程就造成誤會好像我們故意要去漏這個雨然後好像很失禮我們又好像引以為是一件好事 廣正那清德賴總統最近出訪的話淋了雨你會這樣講嗎\n其實有兩個問題嘛第一個是你氣象報告的掌握這是一個問題嘛第二個你隨時要應變啊現在總統出來講是什麼因為三軍儀隊都是沒有拿雨傘的跟穿雨衣的在現場這是兩國的國事訪問耶\n所以其實這個就是標準作為澄清我為什麼說我說外交是專業有一些批評我必須要澄清是因為我覺得我們看專業啦 保定你幫人要辯護啦 不然被困在外面來 這是第三局的業務啦2017年 來來來 保定你看一下你看看 你當然有專業 我知道這也是專業啦2017年蔡英文總統抵達荒都拉斯的時候 進行經理你看 人家去繞路經理上面當然是可以撐傘的 為什麼不行\n你講一般的專業 可是更重要的專業跟尊重 專業跟尊重就是像這樣蔡英文總統沒有被淋雨嘛 我也很滿意賴清德總統說的沒有淋上去是不是這樣如果有問題就要去解決問題 不要一直用專業這個名詞這個也是專業啊 洪都大使人家專不專業這兩個都是專業 情況不一樣 都處理得很好\n不過至少不要讓我們總統出去淋雨啦好不好沒有我現在是要說明就是說那天的國事訪問的整個軍理過程都合乎規定而且雙方面都認為這樣是很正常至於說外面如果斷章取義我作為外交部長我必須替總統府第三局來說\n我們應該講說這是天上的祝福嘛這個就是現場的時候海里總統講的話因為我跟他很熟他也用這樣的話講所以我們才會引據來作為一個說明好啦 你至少也承認人家國外的專業嘛對不對我們自己如果真的有失誤這兩個都是專業 這沒有衝突不過林大比總是不好的OK 好啦最後有點時間 大概一分鐘好不好趕快早上我看很多人在問你這個去以色列度假打工這個事情你剛講的一個計畫很重要啊\n以色列就是一個長年戰爭威脅的地方嘛對 他們有避難設施 隨時那個警示 隨時的通訊所以其實他們的狀況我們不能夠用外人去理解在那邊生活 不管是在那邊已經定居 或者是工作 或者在那邊求學的人他的選擇 就是我們必須 如果你強迫他撤離\n因為它跟伊朗的情形不一樣那因為國際上也是就是維持度假打工而且都要有受理這個不是說一公佈就一堆人去啊所以不能夠把這個程序壓縮好像我們鼓勵大家去暫地冒著風險這個這個不好啦因為這個會造成誤會這個度假打工這個合作必須要什麼時候簽這個之前簽嘛有生效日嘛我們就按照這個因為你突然間還沒有進入到更\n更高的警示等級你自己單方面去做一些行動這在外交上是是很不合宜的啦現在問題出在哪裡就是2023年12月27號要簽這個備忘錄的時候那時候中東的情勢應該已經是緊張了吧那時候以色列跟以哈應該就已經開打了吧我肯定我知道我們的外交人員是辛苦我們國家處境也是困難的要多一些交流這個我們都肯定可是在交流跟國人生命安全之間\n它是2023年10月10月7號發生戰爭嘛那我意思是說其實這種常年在威脅之下就像我們不要讓國際人認為說台灣很危險都不能來一樣我說這個怎麼樣去符合實際啊但是我意思是說他們的這些避難或安全的措施做得非常好全社會防禦任性 全民皆兵\n我們不要是用外人 因為我們任何一個動作都會讓他覺得說 那以後我們台灣咧只要有一個什麼樣的中共的動作 那全世界人都不要來嘛這個都是我們有長遠的思考啊 而且是對等的第一 我們台灣比以色列安全很多啦第二個 當然 我知道我們外國人也很辛苦當然台灣 台灣北一 東京交流比較推的部長 我今天要跟你討論的是 當初要簽這個備忘錄的時候以哈戰爭 那時候中東已經緊張了所以要簽這個要更謹慎 我不是反對簽啦\n就是安全一定要注意啦這第一點 第一點 我跟妳說妳的這個度假打工的這個還在妳們這個網站上面耶妳至少蓋一個暫緩吧或者做一些說明吧因為它暫緩啦我剛才在看 我上去看它還是應該有 有貼暫緩的\n對 就是停止啦上面蓋一個暫緩嘛要嘛就先撤下來是個辦法啦好不好沒有沒有沒有其實雙方面簽的東西在那裡就是在那裡那因為行政程序在辦理的時候我們已經所以暫緩 當然要繼續推動可以當然可是最重要的就是國人安全還是第一啦對不對 國人安全第一個第二個 既然已經是現在暫緩要把它講清楚好不好是 實驗到同仁參考一下委員剛剛的提醒謝謝我們張啟台委員的諮詢接下來有林育君委員上台諮詢\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.069 --> 00:03.931\n我看你今天早上特別說為了以色列跟伊朗親自衝突要開國安會議\n\n00:20.330 --> 00:36.379\n你說針對那個石油跟天然氣的這個價格行政院長應該今天,因為我雖然在這裡沒有開院會,我都有掌握啊他已經有所裁示市長,這次這個衝突啊,彰顯了我們要好好去重視我們的錯誤的能源政策博帝知道嗎,我們現在天然氣佔我們所有發電的佔比多少知道嗎\n\n00:44.229 --> 00:53.844\n這個朝五成邁進不錯蠻精準的古尼47嘛那現在核冷廢掉之後已經將近五成了那這次這個金色衝突就看到啦\n\n00:54.929 --> 01:23.457\n第一個石油跟天然氣在飆漲嘛所以你們要開國安會議嘛這是第一次嘛第二次也是很重要的啊你有沒有發現烏俄戰爭的時候就炸那個天然氣的儲存槽啊對不對是那這是一樣啊你看這個以色列馬上就打的也是對對不對能源跟通訊啊大概是戰爭發生的時候就是第一集啊大概關鍵基礎設施所以你要開火兩個重點第一這個能源政策要好好去想一下你高度依賴天然氣這本身是個問題\n\n01:24.719 --> 01:37.430\n那第二個,上次我肯定你就是,高關稅這個談判裡面,我們要找到美國願意賣給我們,而且是我們要的嘛,會給我們一個共識,是,你說你爭取要跟美國買核能的技術跟他們的設備,對不對?沒有啦,我是覺得應該是先解決核廢料,其實美國、法國他們都有很先進可以處理核廢料,\n\n01:49.901 --> 02:09.845\n因為AIT處長肯定會說什麼他就是說在核能的技術還有包括核會的處理他們要幫忙他已經講了三次了到後來他受不了他推特上面他自己都還貼上去你不是說要去反應嗎你贊成你沒有去反應我有反應啦有反應美國應該很高興啊\n\n02:11.954 --> 02:20.576\n因為你賣給我們我們第一個我們這個逆差就可以我們賺到錢就減少了所以採購是縮短貿易對我們的電力有幫助然後核電也有技術項目之一採購有齁那供料到底怎樣啦應該是華裔的啦這個有主管機關啦負責啦經濟部或者是這個跟這個好從這次的以色列跟伊朗的這個金氏衝突我們看到兩個很重大歧視第一個天然氣佔比太高這個抽油能源政策要去調整\n\n02:40.922 --> 03:08.011\n第二個趕快再推動核電特別是美國已經主動開口了要賣給我們核電的技術跟設備包括你剛才說的核威力要處理我覺得委員剛剛提到一點除了這個能源結構以外我們這個天然氣跟油大量的依賴中東這次也說明了這是個風險所以我們會增加對美國的採購氣跟油也有增加能源韌性所以這個是國安的一部分\n\n03:08.351 --> 03:23.939\n我贊成啦,你剛剛提到的,不過我跟你講美國現在那個,聽說成本比較高啦,搞不好價格會...它量大之後,價格就會下來,這個是...量大一點,然後要降下來,經濟保健公可能要比現在的,我們是所有天然氣賺的占比,10%是從美國來,那以後可能會變20%或30%,那量...你講的,保健公...量大的,價格就要降,不能夠一兩倍價格,這樣不行\n\n03:31.002 --> 03:45.434\n所以除了採購如果我們投資的話我們就變成就是會反映在我們未來也有一定的籌碼我們贊成跟美國買天然氣可是價格不能太高來我們來談一個馬紹爾總統變成漏湯機的事情\n\n03:49.574 --> 04:07.405\n這台鐵到底是外交部的疏忽還是總統府的不對跟委員報告這是總統府第三局的業務但是我是會代為說明我認為真的到他走到最後才突然間有一下雨而且真的他已經走到已經都進場然後已經在落場因為唱完國歌之後他要走回來的時候突然\n\n04:14.689 --> 04:30.096\n有一個大雨陣雨啦馬紹爾那個總統你看看就是最後那一段你看那個頭起起那個是多大的雨然後你看這樣很不禮貌啦不是我覺得委員齁如果您有可以我用一分鐘時間說明一下齁因為他們馬紹爾這個海寧總統自己有發聲明喔\n\n04:33.410 --> 04:50.686\n他自己有說明其實這完全沒有失禮而且對他們來講這個有一個突然間的陣雨這也是一種就是他們在他們文化裡面是代表下雨是一線就是這個所謂的這個好的祝福但我們不去講這個我講的是說他的標準作業程序其實他從車子到然後進場\n\n04:56.631 --> 05:25.024\n到唱國歌然後這個三軍儀隊的禮炮都完了他在做閱兵的時候在走最後彎回來的那一段突然間有個陣雨這個其實是標準作業程序就是把它走完以前也是這個樣子所以外面的人因為沒有去了解這整個過程就造成誤會好像我們故意要去漏這個雨然後好像很失禮我們又好像引以為是一件好事廣正那清德賴總統最近出訪的話淋了雨你會這樣講嗎\n\n05:26.204 --> 05:28.286\n其實有兩個問題嘛第一個是你氣象報告的掌握這是一個問題嘛第二個你隨時要應變啊現在總統出來講是什麼因為三軍儀隊都是沒有拿雨傘的跟穿雨衣的在現場這是兩國的國事訪問耶\n\n05:42.757 --> 05:58.262\n所以其實這個就是標準作為澄清我為什麼說我說外交是專業有一些批評我必須要澄清是因為我覺得我們看專業啦保定你幫人要辯護啦不然被困在外面來這是第三局的業務啦2017年來來來保定你看一下你看看你當然有專業我知道這也是專業啦2017年蔡英文總統抵達荒都拉斯的時候進行經理你看人家去繞路經理上面當然是可以撐傘的為什麼不行\n\n06:09.298 --> 06:20.911\n你講一般的專業可是更重要的專業跟尊重專業跟尊重就是像這樣蔡英文總統沒有被淋雨嘛我也很滿意賴清德總統說的沒有淋上去是不是這樣如果有問題就要去解決問題不要一直用專業這個名詞這個也是專業啊洪都大使人家專不專業這兩個都是專業情況不一樣都處理得很好\n\n06:31.933 --> 06:49.786\n不過至少不要讓我們總統出去淋雨啦好不好沒有我現在是要說明就是說那天的國事訪問的整個軍理過程都合乎規定而且雙方面都認為這樣是很正常至於說外面如果斷章取義我作為外交部長我必須替總統府第三局來說\n\n06:50.486 --> 07:20.286\n我們應該講說這是天上的祝福嘛這個就是現場的時候海里總統講的話因為我跟他很熟他也用這樣的話講所以我們才會引據來作為一個說明好啦你至少也承認人家國外的專業嘛對不對我們自己如果真的有失誤這兩個都是專業這沒有衝突不過林大比總是不好的OK好啦最後有點時間大概一分鐘好不好趕快早上我看很多人在問你這個去以色列度假打工這個事情你剛講的一個計畫很重要啊\n\n07:21.186 --> 07:42.251\n以色列就是一個長年戰爭威脅的地方嘛對他們有避難設施隨時那個警示隨時的通訊所以其實他們的狀況我們不能夠用外人去理解在那邊生活不管是在那邊已經定居或者是工作或者在那邊求學的人他的選擇就是我們必須如果你強迫他撤離\n\n07:44.031 --> 08:03.675\n因為它跟伊朗的情形不一樣那因為國際上也是就是維持度假打工而且都要有受理這個不是說一公佈就一堆人去啊所以不能夠把這個程序壓縮好像我們鼓勵大家去暫地冒著風險這個這個不好啦因為這個會造成誤會這個度假打工這個合作必須要什麼時候簽這個之前簽嘛有生效日嘛我們就按照這個因為你突然間還沒有進入到更\n\n08:13.937 --> 08:40.998\n更高的警示等級你自己單方面去做一些行動這在外交上是是很不合宜的啦現在問題出在哪裡就是2023年12月27號要簽這個備忘錄的時候那時候中東的情勢應該已經是緊張了吧那時候以色列跟以哈應該就已經開打了吧我肯定我知道我們的外交人員是辛苦我們國家處境也是困難的要多一些交流這個我們都肯定可是在交流跟國人生命安全之間\n\n08:42.196 --> 08:47.139\n它是2023年10月10月7號發生戰爭嘛那我意思是說其實這種常年在威脅之下就像我們不要讓國際人認為說台灣很危險都不能來一樣我說這個怎麼樣去符合實際啊但是我意思是說他們的這些避難或安全的措施做得非常好全社會防禦任性全民皆兵\n\n09:07.152 --> 09:25.826\n我們不要是用外人因為我們任何一個動作都會讓他覺得說那以後我們台灣咧只要有一個什麼樣的中共的動作那全世界人都不要來嘛這個都是我們有長遠的思考啊而且是對等的第一我們台灣比以色列安全很多啦第二個當然我知道我們外國人也很辛苦當然台灣台灣北一東京交流比較推的部長我今天要跟你討論的是當初要簽這個備忘錄的時候以哈戰爭那時候中東已經緊張了所以要簽這個要更謹慎我不是反對簽啦\n\n09:35.834 --> 09:39.875\n就是安全一定要注意啦這第一點第一點我跟妳說妳的這個度假打工的這個還在妳們這個網站上面耶妳至少蓋一個暫緩吧或者做一些說明吧因為它暫緩啦我剛才在看我上去看它還是應該有有貼暫緩的\n\n09:57.097 --> 10:24.289\n對就是停止啦上面蓋一個暫緩嘛要嘛就先撤下來是個辦法啦好不好沒有沒有沒有其實雙方面簽的東西在那裡就是在那裡那因為行政程序在辦理的時候我們已經所以暫緩當然要繼續推動可以當然可是最重要的就是國人安全還是第一啦對不對國人安全第一個第二個既然已經是現在暫緩要把它講清楚好不好是實驗到同仁參考一下委員剛剛的提醒謝謝我們張啟台委員的諮詢接下來有林育君委員上台諮詢\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.069,"end":3.931,"text":"我看你今天早上特別說為了以色列跟伊朗親自衝突要開國安會議"},{"start":20.33,"end":36.379,"text":"你說針對那個石油跟天然氣的這個價格行政院長應該今天,因為我雖然在這裡沒有開院會,我都有掌握啊他已經有所裁示市長,這次這個衝突啊,彰顯了我們要好好去重視我們的錯誤的能源政策博帝知道嗎,我們現在天然氣佔我們所有發電的佔比多少知道嗎"},{"start":44.229,"end":53.844,"text":"這個朝五成邁進不錯 蠻精準的 古尼47嘛那現在核冷廢掉之後已經將近五成了那這次這個金色衝突就看到啦"},{"start":54.929,"end":83.457,"text":"第一個石油跟天然氣在飆漲嘛所以你們要開國安會議嘛這是第一次嘛第二次也是很重要的啊你有沒有發現烏俄戰爭的時候就炸那個天然氣的儲存槽啊對不對是那這是一樣啊你看這個以色列馬上就打的也是對對不對能源跟通訊啊大概是戰爭發生的時候就是第一集啊大概關鍵基礎設施所以你要開火兩個重點第一這個能源政策要好好去想一下你高度依賴天然氣這本身是個問題"},{"start":84.719,"end":97.43,"text":"那第二個,上次我肯定你就是,高關稅這個談判裡面,我們要找到美國願意賣給我們,而且是我們要的嘛,會給我們一個共識,是,你說你爭取要跟美國買核能的技術跟他們的設備,對不對?沒有啦,我是覺得應該是先解決核廢料,其實美國、法國他們都有很先進可以處理核廢料,"},{"start":109.901,"end":129.845,"text":"因為AIT處長肯定會說什麼他就是說在核能的技術還有包括核會的處理他們要幫忙他已經講了三次了到後來他受不了他推特上面他自己都還貼上去你不是說要去反應嗎你贊成你沒有去反應我有反應啦有反應美國應該很高興啊"},{"start":131.954,"end":140.576,"text":"因為你賣給我們 我們第一個我們這個逆差就可以 我們賺到錢就減少了所以採購是縮短貿易對我們的電力有幫助然後核電也有技術 項目之一 採購有齁 那供料到底怎樣啦應該是華裔的啦 這個有主管機關啦負責啦 經濟部或者是這個跟這個好 從這次的以色列跟伊朗的這個金氏衝突我們看到兩個很重大歧視 第一個天然氣佔比太高 這個抽油能源政策要去調整"},{"start":160.922,"end":188.011,"text":"第二個趕快再推動核電特別是美國已經主動開口了要賣給我們核電的技術跟設備包括你剛才說的核威力要處理我覺得委員剛剛提到一點除了這個能源結構以外我們這個天然氣跟油大量的依賴中東這次也說明了這是個風險所以我們會增加對美國的採購氣跟油也有增加能源韌性所以這個是國安的一部分"},{"start":188.351,"end":203.939,"text":"我贊成啦,你剛剛提到的,不過我跟你講美國現在那個,聽說成本比較高啦,搞不好價格會...它量大之後,價格就會下來,這個是...量大一點,然後要降下來,經濟保健公可能要比現在的,我們是所有天然氣賺的占比,10%是從美國來,那以後可能會變20%或30%,那量...你講的,保健公...量大的,價格就要降,不能夠一兩倍價格,這樣不行"},{"start":211.002,"end":225.434,"text":"所以除了採購如果我們投資的話我們就變成就是會反映在我們未來也有一定的籌碼我們贊成跟美國買天然氣可是價格不能太高來 我們來談一個馬紹爾總統變成漏湯機的事情"},{"start":229.574,"end":247.405,"text":"這台鐵到底是外交部的疏忽還是總統府的不對跟委員報告這是總統府第三局的業務但是我是會代為說明我認為真的到他走到最後才突然間有一下雨而且真的他已經走到已經都進場然後已經在落場因為唱完國歌之後他要走回來的時候突然"},{"start":254.689,"end":270.096,"text":"有一個大雨 陣雨啦馬紹爾那個總統你看看就是最後那一段你看那個頭起起那個是多大的雨然後你看這樣很不禮貌啦不是 我覺得委員齁如果您有可以我用一分鐘時間說明一下齁因為他們馬紹爾這個海寧總統自己有發聲明喔"},{"start":273.41,"end":290.686,"text":"他自己有說明其實這完全沒有失禮而且對他們來講這個有一個突然間的陣雨這也是一種就是他們在他們文化裡面是代表下雨是一線就是這個所謂的這個好的祝福但我們不去講這個我講的是說他的標準作業程序其實他從車子到然後進場"},{"start":296.631,"end":325.024,"text":"到唱國歌然後這個三軍儀隊的禮炮都完了他在做閱兵的時候在走最後彎回來的那一段突然間有個陣雨這個其實是標準作業程序就是把它走完以前也是這個樣子所以外面的人因為沒有去了解這整個過程就造成誤會好像我們故意要去漏這個雨然後好像很失禮我們又好像引以為是一件好事 廣正那清德賴總統最近出訪的話淋了雨你會這樣講嗎"},{"start":326.204,"end":328.286,"text":"其實有兩個問題嘛第一個是你氣象報告的掌握這是一個問題嘛第二個你隨時要應變啊現在總統出來講是什麼因為三軍儀隊都是沒有拿雨傘的跟穿雨衣的在現場這是兩國的國事訪問耶"},{"start":342.757,"end":358.262,"text":"所以其實這個就是標準作為澄清我為什麼說我說外交是專業有一些批評我必須要澄清是因為我覺得我們看專業啦 保定你幫人要辯護啦 不然被困在外面來 這是第三局的業務啦2017年 來來來 保定你看一下你看看 你當然有專業 我知道這也是專業啦2017年蔡英文總統抵達荒都拉斯的時候 進行經理你看 人家去繞路經理上面當然是可以撐傘的 為什麼不行"},{"start":369.298,"end":380.911,"text":"你講一般的專業 可是更重要的專業跟尊重 專業跟尊重就是像這樣蔡英文總統沒有被淋雨嘛 我也很滿意賴清德總統說的沒有淋上去是不是這樣如果有問題就要去解決問題 不要一直用專業這個名詞這個也是專業啊 洪都大使人家專不專業這兩個都是專業 情況不一樣 都處理得很好"},{"start":391.933,"end":409.786,"text":"不過至少不要讓我們總統出去淋雨啦好不好沒有我現在是要說明就是說那天的國事訪問的整個軍理過程都合乎規定而且雙方面都認為這樣是很正常至於說外面如果斷章取義我作為外交部長我必須替總統府第三局來說"},{"start":410.486,"end":440.286,"text":"我們應該講說這是天上的祝福嘛這個就是現場的時候海里總統講的話因為我跟他很熟他也用這樣的話講所以我們才會引據來作為一個說明好啦 你至少也承認人家國外的專業嘛對不對我們自己如果真的有失誤這兩個都是專業 這沒有衝突不過林大比總是不好的OK 好啦最後有點時間 大概一分鐘好不好趕快早上我看很多人在問你這個去以色列度假打工這個事情你剛講的一個計畫很重要啊"},{"start":441.186,"end":462.251,"text":"以色列就是一個長年戰爭威脅的地方嘛對 他們有避難設施 隨時那個警示 隨時的通訊所以其實他們的狀況我們不能夠用外人去理解在那邊生活 不管是在那邊已經定居 或者是工作 或者在那邊求學的人他的選擇 就是我們必須 如果你強迫他撤離"},{"start":464.031,"end":483.675,"text":"因為它跟伊朗的情形不一樣那因為國際上也是就是維持度假打工而且都要有受理這個不是說一公佈就一堆人去啊所以不能夠把這個程序壓縮好像我們鼓勵大家去暫地冒著風險這個這個不好啦因為這個會造成誤會這個度假打工這個合作必須要什麼時候簽這個之前簽嘛有生效日嘛我們就按照這個因為你突然間還沒有進入到更"},{"start":493.937,"end":520.998,"text":"更高的警示等級你自己單方面去做一些行動這在外交上是是很不合宜的啦現在問題出在哪裡就是2023年12月27號要簽這個備忘錄的時候那時候中東的情勢應該已經是緊張了吧那時候以色列跟以哈應該就已經開打了吧我肯定我知道我們的外交人員是辛苦我們國家處境也是困難的要多一些交流這個我們都肯定可是在交流跟國人生命安全之間"},{"start":522.196,"end":527.139,"text":"它是2023年10月10月7號發生戰爭嘛那我意思是說其實這種常年在威脅之下就像我們不要讓國際人認為說台灣很危險都不能來一樣我說這個怎麼樣去符合實際啊但是我意思是說他們的這些避難或安全的措施做得非常好全社會防禦任性 全民皆兵"},{"start":547.152,"end":565.826,"text":"我們不要是用外人 因為我們任何一個動作都會讓他覺得說 那以後我們台灣咧只要有一個什麼樣的中共的動作 那全世界人都不要來嘛這個都是我們有長遠的思考啊 而且是對等的第一 我們台灣比以色列安全很多啦第二個 當然 我知道我們外國人也很辛苦當然台灣 台灣北一 東京交流比較推的部長 我今天要跟你討論的是 當初要簽這個備忘錄的時候以哈戰爭 那時候中東已經緊張了所以要簽這個要更謹慎 我不是反對簽啦"},{"start":575.834,"end":579.875,"text":"就是安全一定要注意啦這第一點 第一點 我跟妳說妳的這個度假打工的這個還在妳們這個網站上面耶妳至少蓋一個暫緩吧或者做一些說明吧因為它暫緩啦我剛才在看 我上去看它還是應該有 有貼暫緩的"},{"start":597.097,"end":624.289,"text":"對 就是停止啦上面蓋一個暫緩嘛要嘛就先撤下來是個辦法啦好不好沒有沒有沒有其實雙方面簽的東西在那裡就是在那裡那因為行政程序在辦理的時候我們已經所以暫緩 當然要繼續推動可以當然可是最重要的就是國人安全還是第一啦對不對 國人安全第一個第二個 既然已經是現在暫緩要把它講清楚好不好是 實驗到同仁參考一下委員剛剛的提醒謝謝我們張啟台委員的諮詢接下來有林育君委員上台諮詢"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":702,"blocks":[["張委員啓楷：（11時29分）謝謝主席。部長，還沒請就先上台了？"],["林部長佳龍：謝謝，委員也迫不及待，而且您的質詢都非常深入。"],["張委員啓楷：謝謝，我上次也很肯定你。早上部長特別提到，為因應以色列跟伊朗的軍事衝突要召開國安會議，並針對石油跟天然氣的價格……"],["林部長佳龍：雖然我在這裡沒去參加院會，但我都有掌握，也知道行政院長已經有所裁示。"],["張委員啓楷：這次的衝突正好彰顯了一點，那就是要好好重視我們錯誤的能源政策！部長知道嗎？現在天然氣在我們所有發電的占比是多少？"],["林部長佳龍：朝五成邁進。"],["張委員啓楷：不錯，滿精準的。去年是47%，在核能廢掉之後，天然氣已經將近五成了。透過這次軍事衝突可以看到：第一個，石油跟天然氣飆漲，所以你們要開國安會議，這是第一點。第二個，這也很重要，烏俄戰爭時就炸天然氣儲存槽，對不對？"],["林部長佳龍：是。"],["張委員啓楷：這次也是一樣，你看以色列打的也是……"],["林部長佳龍：對，能源跟通訊大概是戰爭發生時的第一擊，即關鍵基礎設施……"],["張委員啓楷：所以開會的兩個重點：第一，能源政策要好好想一下，因為高度倚賴天然氣這本身就是個問題；第二，上次我會肯定你是因為面對高關稅的談判，我們要找到美國願意賣給我們，而且是我們要的。那天之所以誇你，是因為我們有個共識，你說要爭取向美國買核能技術及設備，對不對？"],["林部長佳龍：沒有，而且我覺得應該先解決核廢料問題。其實美國、法國已經很先進，可以處理核廢料……"],["張委員啓楷：AIT處長谷立言已經說三次了！他說在核能技術，包括核廢料處理上，他們可以幫忙，他已經講三次了。到後來他受不了，就自己在Threads和推特上貼文，你不是說要反映？你贊成，但你沒有去反映？"],["林部長佳龍：我有反映。"],["張委員啓楷：有反映？那美國應該很高興，只要美國願意賣給我們，那麼逆差就可以……"],["林部長佳龍：採購是縮短貿易逆差的……"],["張委員啓楷：我們賺他的錢就減少，買到的話對我們的電力有幫助，然後也有核電技術……"],["林部長佳龍：項目之一。"],["張委員啓楷：到底講得怎麼樣？他們應該很高興……"],["林部長佳龍：由主管機關在負責，經濟部或者是……"],["張委員啓楷：從這次以色列跟伊朗的軍事衝突，我們看到兩個很重要的啟示：一，天然氣占比太高，這項錯誤的能源政策要調整；二，趕快再推動核電，特別是美國已經主動開口了，要賣給我們核電的技術跟設備，包括你說的核廢料處理問題……"],["林部長佳龍：委員剛剛提到一點，除了能源結構以外，我們的天然氣跟油大量依賴中東，這次也說明了這是個風險！因此，我們除增加對美國採購天然氣跟油以外，也要增加能源韌性，所以這是國安的一部分。"],["張委員啓楷：這個我贊成。不過聽說現在美國的成本比較高，搞不好價格會……"],["林部長佳龍：量大之後價格就會下來……"],["張委員啓楷：買的量大一點，讓價格降下來。經濟部長說可能會比現在的……因為現在我們所購買的天然氣占比中，有10%來自美國，以後可能會變20%或30%，如此在量上就跟部長所說的……"],["林部長佳龍：最近……"],["張委員啓楷：量大了，價格就要降，不能夠用兩倍價格，這樣不行！"],["林部長佳龍：所以除了採購外，如果我們投資的話，未來我們也會有一定的籌碼。"],["張委員啓楷：對，我們贊成跟美國買天然氣，可是價格不能太高。","現在我們來談馬紹爾總統變成落湯雞這件事。這到底是外交部的疏忽，還是總統府不對？"],["林部長佳龍：跟委員報告，這是總統府第三局的業務，但我可以代為說明。那天已經走到最後才突然下雨，而且真的……"],["張委員啓楷：一開始沒多久就下雨了，不是嗎？"],["林部長佳龍：No、No，已經走到……"],["張委員啓楷：至少一半了。"],["林部長佳龍：已經唱完國歌，也進場、繞場，要走回來的時候突然下大雨、陣雨。"],["張委員啓楷：你看馬紹爾總統……"],["林部長佳龍：就是最後那一段……"],["張委員啓楷：頭低低的，那是多大的雨？這樣實在很不禮貌！"],["林部長佳龍：如果可以，容我用一分鐘時間說明一下。馬紹爾總統自己有發聲明，說這完全沒有失禮。在他們的文化裡，突然間的陣雨對他們來講是好的祝福，但我們不講這個。我要講的是標準作業程序，其實從車子到、進場、施放禮炮、唱國歌、三軍儀隊致敬都做完了，最後在校閱繞回來的那一段突然下了陣雨。以標準作業程序而言就是把它走完，以前也是這樣子，不過外人並不了解這整個過程，於是造成誤會，好像我們故意挑下雨時來進行、很失禮，我們又好像以為這是一件好事……"],["張委員啓楷：如果賴清德總統在出訪時淋了雨，你會這樣講嗎？這其實有兩個問題：首先，對氣象報告的掌握，這是一個問題；第二，要隨時應變。現在總統府說什麼……"],["林部長佳龍：因為現場三軍儀隊都沒有拿傘、穿雨衣，而且這是兩國的國是訪問！所以這是標準作業程序，我為什麼說外交是專業？有一些批評我必須要澄清，是因為我覺得……"],["張委員啓楷：部長當然要辯護，不過還是要看專業。"],["林部長佳龍：這是第三局的業務……"],["張委員啓楷：2017年……"],["林部長佳龍：但是我們……"],["張委員啓楷：部長，你看一下！你看一下！你說要專業我知道，這也是專業啊！2017年蔡英文總統抵達宏都拉斯的時候正逢下雨，他們也舉行軍禮，但是你看，他們有拿雨傘啊，軍禮上面當然可以撐傘啊，為什麼不行？你講一部分的專業，可是更重要的是專業跟尊重，專業跟尊重就是像這樣，蔡英文總統沒有淋雨嘛，我也希望以後賴清德總統出去不要淋到雨，是不是這樣？"],["林部長佳龍：這情況是不一樣的。"],["張委員啓楷：如果有問題就要去解決問題，不要一直用「專業」這個名詞，這個也是專業啊！宏都拉斯專不專業？"],["林部長佳龍：這兩個都是專業，但情況不一樣，都處理得很好。"],["張委員啓楷：至少不要讓我們總統出去淋雨啦，好不好？"],["林部長佳龍：沒有，我還是要說明的就是……"],["張委員啓楷：要更專業、要禮貌。"],["林部長佳龍：那天國是訪問的整個軍禮過程都合乎規定，而且雙方都認為這樣是很正常。至於外面如果斷章取義，我作為外交部長，我必須替總統府第三局來說明。"],["張委員啓楷：部長，你說這是天上的祝福，這已經被罵慘了……"],["林部長佳龍：這個就是在現場的時候海妮總統講的話……"],["張委員啓楷：我知道，你今天可能要辯護……"],["林部長佳龍：因為我跟她很熟，她也用這樣的話講，所以我們才會引據來作為一個說明。"],["張委員啓楷：好啦，你至少也承認人家國外的專業嘛，對不對？我們自己如果真的有疏忽要補強啦！"],["林部長佳龍：這兩個都是專業，這沒有衝突。"],["張委員啓楷：不過淋到雨總是不好啦！"],["林部長佳龍：對。"],["張委員啓楷：最後再用點時間，大概1分鐘。早上我看很多人詢問有關於國人去以色列度假打工的這個事情，你剛剛講到的那個計畫很重要啊，以色列就是一個長年戰爭威脅的地方嘛，對不對？"],["林部長佳龍：對，他們的避難設施隨時，那個警示隨時的通訊，所以對於他們的狀況，我們不能夠以外人的眼光去理解，在那邊生活的人，不管是在那邊定居、工作或是求學，他的選擇我們必須尊重，不適合強迫他撤離，因為以色列跟伊朗的情形不一樣，國際上也是維持度假打工，而且都要有受理，這個不是說一公布就一堆人去啊，所以不能夠把這個程序壓縮，好像我們鼓勵大家去戰地冒風險，這個不好啦，因為這樣會造成誤會。"],["張委員啓楷：部長，度假打工的合作備忘錄是什麼時候簽署的？你知道這個MOU是什麼時候簽署的嗎？"],["林部長佳龍：這個之前簽的，有生效日嘛，我們就按照這個，因為你突然間……"],["張委員啓楷：2023年的……"],["林部長佳龍：還沒有進入到更高的警示等級，你自己單方面去做一些行動，這在外交上是很不合宜的啦！"],["張委員啓楷：現在的問題出在哪裡？就是2023年12月27號要簽這個備忘錄的時候，那時候中東的情勢應該已經是緊張了嘛，那時候以哈應該已經開打了嘛，我肯定、我知道我們的外交人員是辛苦的，我們的外交處境也是困難的，要多一些交流，這個我們都肯定，可是在交流跟國人生命安全之間，還是要以生命安全為重。"],["林部長佳龍：是2023年10月7號發生戰爭嘛！"],["張委員啓楷：對，12月27號簽署的。"],["林部長佳龍：我的意思是說，其實對於這種長年在威脅之下的國家，就像我們不要讓國際認為臺灣很危險、都不能來一樣，我覺得這個怎麼樣去符合實際……"],["張委員啓楷：臺灣比以色列安全很多啊！部長，安全太多了！"],["林部長佳龍：但是我的意思是說，他們的避難或安全措施做得非常好，全社會防禦韌性、全民皆兵，我們不要用外人的眼光去看，因為我們任何一個動作都會讓人家覺得說那以後我們臺灣呢？只要中共有一個什麼樣的動作，全世界的人都不要來嗎？這個都是我們有長遠的思考啊，而且是對等的。"],["張委員啓楷：部長！第一個，我們臺灣比以色列安全很多啦！第二個，當然，我知道我們外交人員很辛苦……"],["林部長佳龍：我們知道安全，但外人看……"],["張委員啓楷：當然臺灣第一，當然交流總是要推動的……"],["林部長佳龍：……不一樣！"],["張委員啓楷：部長，我今天要跟你討論的是當初要簽這個備忘錄的時候，以哈戰爭已經開打，那時候中東已經緊張了，所以要簽這個要更謹慎，我不是反對簽啦，就是安全一定要注意啦，這是第一個。"],["林部長佳龍：好。"],["張委員啓楷：第二個，這個台以度假打工計畫還掛在你們的網站上面耶，你至少蓋一個暫緩或者做一些說明吧！我剛剛上去看，你們的推特上面還有啊！"],["林部長佳龍：應該有說暫緩了，就是停止了。"],["張委員啓楷：那就在上面蓋一個暫緩嘛，不然就先撤下來也是個辦法啦，好不好？"],["林部長佳龍：沒有、沒有、沒有！其實雙方面簽的東西在那裡就是在那裡，因為行政程序在辦理的時候，我們已經……"],["張委員啓楷：……暫緩了，我知道，當然，要繼續推動可以，可是最重要的就是國人安全還是第一啦，對不對？"],["林部長佳龍：好，我同意。"],["張委員啓楷：國人安全第一。第二個，既然現在已經暫緩了，就要把它講清楚，好不好？"],["林部長佳龍：是。"],["主席：時間到了。"],["林部長佳龍：我請同仁參考一下委員剛剛的提醒。"],["主席：謝謝張啓楷委員的質詢。","接下來請林憶君委員上臺質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":56,"meet_id":"委員會-11-3-35-20","speakers":["黃仁","陳俊宇","王定宇","羅美玲","陳永康","林楚茵","沈伯洋","徐巧芯","黃國昌","馬文君","葉元之","王鴻薇","李彥秀","張啓楷","林憶君","陳冠廷"],"page_start":1,"meetingDate":["2025-06-19"],"gazette_id":"1146101","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1146101_00002"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期外交及國防委員會第20次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"處理院會交付114年度中央政府總預算決議，外交部主管預算凍結案等3案","agenda_id":"1146101_00001"}}}