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643.495, \"text\": \"那你跳票也是延長到2026年但是我們看到光電的部分離20GW的目標我們還缺了5.49GW的一個缺口那學者業者都認為那一年如果增加兩個GW都了不得了那在這樣的情況之下都不看好2026年的這個打標會不會再延後\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 635.509, \"end\": 635.669, \"score\": 0.712}, {\"word\": \"你\", \"start\": 635.669, \"end\": 635.829, \"score\": 0.569}, {\"word\": \"跳\", \"start\": 635.829, \"end\": 636.049, \"score\": 0.777}, {\"word\": \"票\", \"start\": 636.049, \"end\": 636.25, \"score\": 0.777}, {\"word\": \"也\", \"start\": 636.25, \"end\": 636.41, \"score\": 0.828}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 636.41, \"end\": 636.53, \"score\": 0.752}, {\"word\": \"延\", \"start\": 636.53, \"end\": 636.95, \"score\": 0.654}, {\"word\": \"長\"}, {\"word\": \"到\", \"start\": 636.95, \"end\": 637.891, \"score\": 0.687}, {\"word\": \"2\"}, {\"word\": \"0\"}, {\"word\": \"2\"}, {\"word\": \"6\"}, {\"word\": \"年\", \"start\": 637.891, \"end\": 638.511, \"score\": 0.825}, {\"word\": \"但\", \"start\": 638.511, \"end\": 638.651, \"score\": 0.861}, {\"word\": \"是\", 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\"要\", \"start\": 1042.5, \"end\": 1042.66, \"score\": 0.849}, {\"word\": \"再\", \"start\": 1042.66, \"end\": 1042.821, \"score\": 0.811}, {\"word\": \"跳\", \"start\": 1042.821, \"end\": 1042.961, \"score\": 0.838}, {\"word\": \"票\", \"start\": 1042.961, \"end\": 1042.981, \"score\": 0.285}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:00,129 --> 00:00:10,459\n郭文貴議員做詢答謝謝主席楊瓊瓊發言邀請部長郭部長\n\n2\n00:00:26,417 --> 00:00:45,664\n我们看到媒体报道伊朗准备要封锁荷姆支海峡大家都知道荷姆支海峡是国际在运输运原油非常重要的航道那如果封锁了之后对我们的影响有多大呢请教部长\n\n3\n00:00:48,393 --> 00:01:05,388\n我們現在還在評估啦我們有各種不同的這個所以我們有掌控這個訊息我們當然是從上個禮拜開始我們就掌控這個訊息上個禮拜開始那您認為評估了之後如果陳真那應該會陳真的情況之下我們影響會多大\n\n4\n00:01:06,008 --> 00:01:15,691\n我們影響會根據國際油價的走勢做不同的推論譬如說現在油價來到80塊這個區間我們有80塊的做法當國際油價來到100塊我們100塊有什麼樣的對策包括我們要從哪個地方取得比較現貨的報價\n\n5\n00:01:28,254 --> 00:01:41,643\n包括120、140我們都有做不斷的各種的方案去應對之那我們有多少的天然氣跟原油會從荷姆茲海峽通過呢我們大概目前來講這一個部分的話詳細的\n\n6\n00:01:44,685 --> 00:02:09,251\n我們大概到目前為止大概會有多少我們現在目前所盤出來了目前來看應該是低於20%低於20%那低於20%呢這是目前我們所掌控的訊息所以換句話說封鎖了之後對我們是影響還是很大對我們影響就是說我們要繞過這個赫姆斯海峽然後這個影響對我們來講可能就是時間啦\n\n7\n00:02:11,572 --> 00:02:26,677\n所以你的成本一定會增加嗎時間啊時間會更長嗎時間當然會更長嘛那個運費的部分啦運費的部分能夠攤底下來其實不多啦攤底不多現在是這個市場的行情在漲的時候會影響到我們的油價那這個是我們都有推論啦\n\n8\n00:02:35,040 --> 00:02:40,143\n所以預估如果封鎖了荷姆茲海峽那麼原油有可能會漲我們都有一套這個計算的模式當然會漲當然會漲所以這個會針對我們會有影響我們一定要審慎對峙我們當然是非常的審慎的來評估所以我們有各種不同的\n\n9\n00:02:58,052 --> 00:03:26,631\n各種不同的階段的影響評估我們在上個禮拜都已經做過好上個禮拜開始應對接下來本席要跟你討論的我們請交通部次長也一併上來今天的主題高齡化我國智慧公共運具發展的目標我認為除了長遠的智慧運作發展是非常重要那公共運輸的部分我相信也必須要兼具的現狀\n\n10\n00:03:28,072 --> 00:03:48,279\n落地有效如我們台中小王公車台中的服務員山海豚到梨山都是我們的所以在這樣的情況之下有很多的偏鄉所以早期大客車比較不容易進來的那所以呢我們民眾有時候等一班公車要等好久好久在這樣的情況之下\n\n11\n00:03:49,119 --> 00:04:05,063\n有時候根本沒有車可以搭在這個偏鄉那所以呢我們台中市府就推出了小黃公車用計程車來取代大客車依照固定的路線固定的班次不僅它成本來節省也讓長輩讓學童讓身心障礙者以及讓通行者都能夠更加的受惠那盧市長上任之後呢我們更擴大\n\n12\n00:04:15,905 --> 00:04:21,730\n小王公車的這個政策我也參與其中我也參與其中甚至我們涵蓋了原市區以及我們縣區的三海屯總共21個22個行政區162里超過的班次有有這個26萬班次使用的服務的人次有達到178907人所以小王公車在整個補上運量\n\n13\n00:04:45,129 --> 00:04:53,412\n不大但是呢它實際上是非常非常的有效能因為它可以將需求的這個關鍵搭配呢可以降低成本所以在這邊要請教我們台中的小王公車是不是地方創新是一個成功的典範次長\n\n14\n00:05:06,274 --> 00:05:34,386\n包委員確實能夠把偏鄉的服務依照他的需求提供而且滿足是非常創新而且重要非常創新而且重要而且是一個成功的典範我們的部分就是您所知的幸福巴士跟幸福小房也一起來合作所以當時本席也特別低量本席也特別到現場去鼓勵所以本席要請教中央你是不是應該既然他是成功的\n\n15\n00:05:35,406 --> 00:05:38,030\n而且是協助那在這樣的情況之下是不是應該要主動盤點全國還有哪一些的區塊他是否可以導入建立一個跨部位的協調平台從交通從經濟甚至在數位發展的一起來推動智慧型的\n\n16\n00:05:52,688 --> 00:06:07,330\n小型運輸是謝謝委員這應該的這應該的對已經盤點到這個程度有些工作必須要重新思考哪些需求沒有被滿足所以你認同這個方向所以接下來我要請教經濟部長要麻煩縣市政府多幫忙\n\n17\n00:06:07,991 --> 00:06:23,004\n縣市長我多幫忙但是你中央要負責我們的經濟部長我知道這個對中央來講交通部他是主責但是我們經濟部我認為佔了很重要的角色也就是我們是不是可以透過中小企業相關的資源來協助車行的升級\n\n18\n00:06:28,208 --> 00:06:45,820\n車輛要升級啊車輛不升級它拍出來沒有辦法這麼樣的迅速有效第一個車輛升級比如說我們導入了電動車數位派遣AI的排班系統讓小王公車它不只是交通工具它更是智慧交通的一個轉型\n\n19\n00:06:48,584 --> 00:07:14,221\n市長請你注意聽到加雙市長是是謝謝委員的這個垂行這個部分我們馬上回來這個嚴明一下子好非常感謝市長你聽到了部長願意要協助透過我們整合中小企業相關的這個資源所以我們希望小車也能夠有大力量那地方敢做能做的我們也希望經濟部他不是只有盤關就像部長我非常的這個這個讚許你願意\n\n20\n00:07:16,963 --> 00:07:32,849\n一起跟交通部我們從地方的資源相關的中小企業資源跟交通部一起來做那在這樣的情況之下呢我們覺得整個永續的在地的這個交通新模式它是需要去落實的所以目前我們補助重大這個大增運輸的部分都涵蓋在大型的營業者\n\n21\n00:07:39,671 --> 00:08:01,966\n那對於剛剛交通部經濟部都認可的我們的這個小黃這一類的小型微型的經營者也應該要建立更友善的營運獎勵這個營運的這個獎勵措施讓地方真正成如剛剛交通部次長所說的他是地方創新地方業者也能夠投入帶動整個這個經濟鏈的一個成長那是否可以擴及到我們這種小型微型的一個經營者\n\n22\n00:08:10,291 --> 00:08:24,797\n是謝謝委員吹薰這一部分凡是對我們國家這個中小微企業有幫助的這一些所有的這個推動活動我們中小企業署我們一定是不遺餘力全力以赴\n\n23\n00:08:25,077 --> 00:08:46,442\n非常的感謝因為剛剛我特別先請交通次長來回答喔那這個呢在交通部跟經濟部大家都是非常認可我們在地方探求民眾的需求那麼多久時間可以研擬一套這個方案獎勵措施告訴我們讓我們地方的微型企業都能夠能夠得到政府的支持肯定跟落實\n\n24\n00:08:47,322 --> 00:09:03,325\n是我們來跟這個中小企業署我想我們三個月內然後訪問這個所有的業者的心聲那麼看實際的這個可以產生什麼樣的效益我們三個月內可以提出來這一份的報告好那在討論的當中我也請交通部在這邊你要加入其中經濟部願意協助我們要謝謝我們希望在三個月內能夠得到一個答案交通部請回接下來本席要請問\n\n25\n00:09:14,707 --> 00:09:36,741\n部長再生能源我們再來討論一下目標你一再跳票是2026年是不是會達標我們希望能夠達標但是部長我們討論的能源政策呢我看到2025年再生能源的配比是20%但是到今年的上半年我們初估大概是16.3%後來又說要到2026年11月份才能夠達成我請問2026年的目標會再跳票嗎\n\n26\n00:09:44,105 --> 00:10:02,001\n報告委員2026年到目前為止我們很肯定的跟委員報告我們絕對不會讓他跳票2026年達到再生能源的20%不會被跳票因為北京今天看到這個在報紙上面你們說擴大無限量的發電量是否如此\n\n27\n00:10:02,950 --> 00:10:19,041\n是否如此是要因應這個2026年不會跳票嗎是嗎是我們現在在尋求各種的跨部門的協商我們希望以2026年不跳票作為我們最重要的一個方式以2026年\n\n28\n00:10:20,362 --> 00:10:23,924\n不跳票的方式去尋找各種方式去落實接下來我們來討論原本強調的你的風光電太陽光的這個部分裝置容量2025年是達到20GW的目標但是去年也宣布是跳票了\n\n29\n00:10:35,509 --> 00:10:43,495\n那你跳票也是延長到2026年但是我們看到光電的部分離20GW的目標我們還缺了5.49GW的一個缺口那學者業者都認為那一年如果增加兩個GW都了不得了那在這樣的情況之下都不看好2026年的這個打標會不會再延後\n\n30\n00:10:58,106 --> 00:11:15,042\n光電的部分我們確實有碰到盧委員所垂行的這樣的一個困難但是我們在其他的方法其他的部分譬如說我們從這個風電還有這個地熱或者是水利我們希望能夠再加快\n\n31\n00:11:15,723 --> 00:11:18,364\n所以剛剛部長你的回答也就是太陽光太陽光確定2026年還是達不到還會再延後我們2026年的11月達標還是我們第一個任務我們一定要想辦法達標我們只是說怕萬一\n\n32\n00:11:35,312 --> 00:11:46,464\n怕萬一因為我們還仍然需要有一些地方政府的支持請問的是結果論喔2026年你達到20幾個月會達標嗎以目前我們的規劃會以目前的規劃但是落實的腳程呢\n\n33\n00:11:57,648 --> 00:12:13,206\n也是會會達標落實的腳程也會達標是但是我們需要所有國人大家共同的配合你有這個但是就是表示目前是有疑慮的沒有這個是我們對於法彼此的認知啦那我肯定的告訴你會達標好\n\n34\n00:12:15,528 --> 00:12:22,010\n2026年你認為太陽光電的部分呢是2026年會達到20%或是會達標那接下來本席跟你討論風電的部分風電2025年呢那麼你要達到5.6GW但是現在大概是3GW那進度會延後嗎也會不達標嗎風電我們會提早風電會提早在2025年你會達到5.6GW嗎\n\n35\n00:12:41,460 --> 00:12:50,226\n2026年我們還是2026年所以你的2025年要達到5.6計高的話是已經跳票所以宣布到2026年請說明清楚那個是在過去的啊這個延一年也是在過去所承諾的事情好所以你現在的封建是這所承諾的事情一定要2026因為你2025已經跳票人民會怕啊那你現在2026本席請教\n\n36\n00:13:11,281 --> 00:13:30,549\n會不會跳票那個報告委員2025年延到2026年是因為COVID的關係所以當時上一任上一屆的這個政府有承諾讓他們延一年但我來接這個部長的時候就是完成2020年所以換句話說2026年你的這個風電的部分5.6GW你是要達到的\n\n37\n00:13:36,738 --> 00:14:02,418\n是的好最後結論每年全國的電量上升不斷的在上升對不對部長需求量是上升的需求量我們都有估在我們計畫裡面當然是上升當然是上升那麼實際上我們發電量與20%的對應是有差距的因為政府的規劃在2030年再生能源的部分佔比是30%燃氣49%燃煤是多少呢\n\n38\n00:14:04,380 --> 00:14:09,404\n2030年本期告訴你但是我們也聽到也看到考量便利的需求的成長率是2.1%對不對每一年的成長率大概2%2.1%是報告委員您的資料是2.1那我們估的是2.4\n\n39\n00:14:24,216 --> 00:14:32,982\n2.4還有需求那就是說我們每一年一直在增加好這個有個故事也就是每一年的需求電量是增加的所以屆時再生能源的發電量預計要將比2024年的330\n\n40\n00:14:40,245 --> 00:14:55,870\n333億度會增加到2013年我們預估的2013年的976億度那換句話說是2024年的三倍所以本市要請教再生能源實際上的發電達到多少2024年及2025年到底數字是多少這個詳情的數目是請容許我回去再確認以後再跟您報告\n\n41\n00:15:03,888 --> 00:15:06,469\n你頭腦現在沒有這個東西這個讓我們會害怕因為我們這個是最重要的能源政策而且2030年是確定要怎麼樣會有多少發電量這個應該我們的幕僚都有清楚吧怎麼會現在回答不出來呢\n\n42\n00:15:19,813 --> 00:15:30,887\n您槌尋的完全正確啦是謝謝我必須要準備啦所以我想下一次是不是請你提早告訴我我來這邊接受您執行部長部長我已經非常非常\n\n43\n00:15:34,952 --> 00:15:49,260\n理性的跟你討論所以我要的是2024年以及你預估2025年的數字因為已經告訴我們每一年的這個電量成長率是2甚至2.12.2現在你們估到2.4所以換句話說你們應該會知道\n\n44\n00:15:51,761 --> 00:15:55,965\n到底我們2030年我們的發電量到底是多少才能夠讓我們很有信心的實際上你的發電量是足夠的嘛那如果連這個足夠的我們都不知道數字那我們怎麼相信是呢報告委員我是說我現在腦袋裡面沒有這個數字我必須要從我同仁那邊來接受這樣的一個訊息\n\n45\n00:16:14,701 --> 00:16:19,363\n也謝謝部長你的誠實你的誠實我也希望得到正確的這個數字請會後數字給本席我希望的再生能源它不是口號因為大家針對於能源政策跟現實的落差大家都是非常關鍵在關心也鼓勵政府要好好的做民眾也希望能夠得到一個正確的答案嘛對不對我們完全的這個看法是一致的\n\n46\n00:16:41,055 --> 00:16:47,299\n因為任何能源是非常非常非常重要因為我們不希望又再跳票又再失言企業的看盤查投資布局企業的投資布局他們關係的我們能源到底足不足他們要怎麼樣的來布局所以這一點是非常重要我要請部長我也感謝你誠實的回答你頭腦沒有這個數字但是這個誠實也希望能夠真正的去落實我們的數字\n\n47\n00:17:11,655 --> 00:17:22,981\n問到以後就會給你問到以後給我這個應該是你頭腦裡面就已經有這麼重大的決策一起加油希望讓民眾能夠安心好不好不要再跳票謝謝\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n129\t10459\t郭文貴議員做詢答謝謝主席楊瓊瓊發言邀請部長郭部長\n26417\t45664\t我们看到媒体报道伊朗准备要封锁荷姆支海峡大家都知道荷姆支海峡是国际在运输运原油非常重要的航道那如果封锁了之后对我们的影响有多大呢请教部长\n48393\t65388\t我們現在還在評估啦我們有各種不同的這個所以我們有掌控這個訊息我們當然是從上個禮拜開始我們就掌控這個訊息上個禮拜開始那您認為評估了之後如果陳真那應該會陳真的情況之下我們影響會多大\n66008\t75691\t我們影響會根據國際油價的走勢做不同的推論譬如說現在油價來到80塊這個區間我們有80塊的做法當國際油價來到100塊我們100塊有什麼樣的對策包括我們要從哪個地方取得比較現貨的報價\n88254\t101643\t包括120、140我們都有做不斷的各種的方案去應對之那我們有多少的天然氣跟原油會從荷姆茲海峽通過呢我們大概目前來講這一個部分的話詳細的\n104685\t129251\t我們大概到目前為止大概會有多少我們現在目前所盤出來了目前來看應該是低於20%低於20%那低於20%呢這是目前我們所掌控的訊息所以換句話說封鎖了之後對我們是影響還是很大對我們影響就是說我們要繞過這個赫姆斯海峽然後這個影響對我們來講可能就是時間啦\n131572\t146677\t所以你的成本一定會增加嗎時間啊時間會更長嗎時間當然會更長嘛那個運費的部分啦運費的部分能夠攤底下來其實不多啦攤底不多現在是這個市場的行情在漲的時候會影響到我們的油價那這個是我們都有推論啦\n155040\t160143\t所以預估如果封鎖了荷姆茲海峽那麼原油有可能會漲我們都有一套這個計算的模式當然會漲當然會漲所以這個會針對我們會有影響我們一定要審慎對峙我們當然是非常的審慎的來評估所以我們有各種不同的\n178052\t206631\t各種不同的階段的影響評估我們在上個禮拜都已經做過好 上個禮拜開始應對接下來本席要跟你討論的我們請交通部次長也一併上來今天的主題高齡化我國智慧公共運具發展的目標我認為除了長遠的智慧運作發展是非常重要那公共運輸的部分我相信也必須要兼具的現狀\n208072\t228279\t落地有效如我們台中小王公車台中的服務員山海豚到梨山都是我們的所以在這樣的情況之下有很多的偏鄉所以早期大客車比較不容易進來的那所以呢我們民眾有時候等一班公車要等好久好久在這樣的情況之下\n229119\t245063\t有時候根本沒有車可以搭在這個偏鄉那所以呢我們台中市府就推出了小黃公車用計程車來取代大客車依照固定的路線固定的班次不僅它成本來節省也讓長輩讓學童讓身心障礙者以及讓通行者都能夠更加的受惠那盧市長上任之後呢我們更擴大\n255905\t261730\t小王公車的這個政策我也參與其中我也參與其中 甚至我們涵蓋了原市區以及我們縣區的三海屯總共21個22個行政區162里超過的班次有有這個26萬班次使用的服務的人次有達到178907人所以小王公車在整個補上運量\n285129\t293412\t不大 但是呢它實際上是非常非常的有效能因為它可以將需求的這個關鍵搭配呢可以降低成本所以在這邊要請教我們台中的小王公車是不是地方創新是一個成功的典範 次長\n306274\t334386\t包委員確實能夠把偏鄉的服務依照他的需求提供而且滿足是非常創新而且重要非常創新而且重要而且是一個成功的典範我們的部分就是您所知的幸福巴士跟幸福小房也一起來合作所以當時本席也特別低量本席也特別到現場去鼓勵所以本席要請教中央你是不是應該既然他是成功的\n335406\t338030\t而且是協助那在這樣的情況之下是不是應該要主動盤點全國還有哪一些的區塊他是否可以導入建立一個跨部位的協調平台從交通從經濟甚至在數位發展的一起來推動智慧型的\n352688\t367330\t小型運輸是謝謝委員這應該的這應該的對已經盤點到這個程度有些工作必須要重新思考哪些需求沒有被滿足所以你認同這個方向所以接下來我要請教經濟部長要麻煩縣市政府多幫忙\n367991\t383004\t縣市長我多幫忙 但是你中央要負責我們的經濟部長我知道這個對中央來講交通部他是主責但是我們經濟部我認為佔了很重要的角色也就是我們是不是可以透過中小企業相關的資源來協助車行的升級\n388208\t405820\t車輛要升級啊 車輛不升級 它拍出來沒有辦法這麼樣的迅速有效第一個 車輛升級 比如說我們導入了電動車 數位派遣AI的排班系統 讓小王公車它不只是交通工具 它更是智慧交通的一個轉型\n408584\t434221\t市長請你注意聽到 加雙市長是是謝謝委員的這個垂行這個部分我們馬上回來這個嚴明一下子好 非常感謝市長你聽到了部長願意要協助透過我們整合中小企業相關的這個資源所以我們希望小車也能夠有大力量那地方敢做能做的我們也希望經濟部他不是只有盤關就像部長我非常的這個這個讚許你願意\n436963\t452849\t一起跟交通部 我們從地方的資源 相關的中小企業資源跟交通部一起來做那在這樣的情況之下呢 我們覺得整個永續的在地的這個交通新模式 它是需要去落實的所以目前我們補助重大 這個大增運輸的部分都涵蓋在大型的營業者\n459671\t481966\t那對於剛剛交通部經濟部都認可的我們的這個小黃這一類的小型微型的經營者也應該要建立更友善的營運獎勵這個營運的這個獎勵措施讓地方真正成如剛剛交通部次長所說的他是地方創新地方業者也能夠投入帶動整個這個經濟鏈的一個成長那是否可以擴及到我們這種小型微型的一個經營者\n490291\t504797\t是謝謝委員吹薰這一部分凡是對我們國家這個中小微企業有幫助的這一些所有的這個推動活動我們中小企業署我們一定是不遺餘力全力以赴\n505077\t526442\t非常的感謝因為剛剛我特別先請交通次長來回答喔那這個呢在交通部跟經濟部大家都是非常認可我們在地方探求民眾的需求那麼多久時間可以研擬一套這個方案獎勵措施告訴我們讓我們地方的微型企業都能夠能夠得到政府的支持肯定跟落實\n527322\t543325\t是我們來跟這個中小企業署我想我們三個月內然後訪問這個所有的業者的心聲那麼看實際的這個可以產生什麼樣的效益我們三個月內可以提出來這一份的報告好那在討論的當中我也請交通部在這邊你要加入其中經濟部願意協助我們要謝謝我們希望在三個月內能夠得到一個答案交通部請回接下來本席要請問\n554707\t576741\t部長再生能源我們再來討論一下目標你一再跳票是2026年是不是會達標我們希望能夠達標但是部長我們討論的能源政策呢我看到2025年再生能源的配比是20%但是到今年的上半年我們初估大概是16.3%後來又說要到2026年11月份才能夠達成我請問2026年的目標會再跳票嗎\n584105\t602001\t報告委員2026年到目前為止我們很肯定的跟委員報告我們絕對不會讓他跳票2026年達到再生能源的20%不會被跳票因為北京今天看到這個在報紙上面你們說擴大無限量的發電量是否如此\n602950\t619041\t是否如此 是要因應這個2026年不會跳票嗎 是嗎是 我們現在在尋求各種的跨部門的協商我們希望以2026年不跳票作為我們最重要的一個方式以2026年\n620362\t623924\t不跳票的方式去尋找各種方式去落實接下來我們來討論原本強調的你的風光電太陽光的這個部分裝置容量2025年是達到20GW的目標但是去年也宣布是跳票了\n635509\t643495\t那你跳票也是延長到2026年但是我們看到光電的部分離20GW的目標我們還缺了5.49GW的一個缺口那學者業者都認為那一年如果增加兩個GW都了不得了那在這樣的情況之下都不看好2026年的這個打標會不會再延後\n658106\t675042\t光電的部分我們確實有碰到盧委員所垂行的這樣的一個困難但是我們在其他的方法其他的部分譬如說我們從這個風電還有這個地熱或者是水利我們希望能夠再加快\n675723\t678364\t所以剛剛部長你的回答也就是太陽光太陽光確定2026年還是達不到還會再延後我們2026年的11月達標還是我們第一個任務我們一定要想辦法達標我們只是說怕萬一\n695312\t706464\t怕萬一因為我們還仍然需要有一些地方政府的支持請問的是結果論喔2026年你達到20幾個月會達標嗎以目前我們的規劃會以目前的規劃 但是落實的腳程呢\n717648\t733206\t也是會 會達標落實的腳程也會達標是 但是我們需要所有國人大家共同的配合你有這個但是就是表示目前是有疑慮的沒有 這個是我們對於法彼此的認知啦那我肯定的告訴你會達標好\n735528\t742010\t2026年你認為太陽光電的部分呢是2026年會達到20%或是會達標那接下來本席跟你討論風電的部分風電2025年呢那麼你要達到5.6GW但是現在大概是3GW那進度會延後嗎也會不達標嗎風電我們會提早風電會提早在2025年你會達到5.6GW嗎\n761460\t770226\t2026年 我們還是2026年所以你的2025年要達到5.6計高的話是已經跳票所以宣布到2026年 請說明清楚那個是在過去的啊這個延一年也是在過去所承諾的事情好 所以你現在的封建是這所承諾的事情一定要2026因為你2025已經跳票 人民會怕啊那你現在2026 本席請教\n791281\t810549\t會不會跳票那個報告委員2025年延到2026年是因為COVID的關係所以當時上一任上一屆的這個政府有承諾讓他們延一年但我來接這個部長的時候就是完成2020年所以換句話說2026年你的這個風電的部分5.6GW你是要達到的\n816738\t842418\t是的好最後結論每年全國的電量上升不斷的在上升對不對部長需求量是上升的需求量我們都有估在我們計畫裡面當然是上升當然是上升那麼實際上我們發電量與20%的對應是有差距的因為政府的規劃在2030年再生能源的部分佔比是30%燃氣49%燃煤是多少呢\n844380\t849404\t2030年本期告訴你但是我們也聽到也看到考量便利的需求的成長率是2.1%對不對每一年的成長率大概2%2.1%是 報告委員您的資料是2.1那我們估的是2.4\n864216\t872982\t2.4還有需求那就是說我們每一年一直在增加好這個有個故事也就是每一年的需求電量是增加的所以屆時再生能源的發電量預計要將比2024年的330\n880245\t895870\t333億度會增加到2013年我們預估的2013年的976億度那換句話說是2024年的三倍所以本市要請教再生能源實際上的發電達到多少2024年及2025年到底數字是多少這個詳情的數目是請容許我回去再確認以後再跟您報告\n903888\t906469\t你頭腦現在沒有這個東西這個讓我們會害怕因為我們這個是最重要的能源政策而且2030年是確定要怎麼樣會有多少發電量這個應該我們的幕僚都有清楚吧怎麼會現在回答不出來呢\n919813\t930887\t您槌尋的完全正確啦是 謝謝我必須要準備啦所以我想下一次是不是請你提早告訴我我來這邊接受您執行部長 部長我已經非常非常\n934952\t949260\t理性的跟你討論所以我要的是2024年以及你預估2025年的數字因為已經告訴我們每一年的這個電量成長率是2甚至2.1 2.2現在你們估到2.4所以換句話說你們應該會知道\n951761\t955965\t到底我們2030年我們的發電量到底是多少才能夠讓我們很有信心的實際上你的發電量是足夠的嘛那如果連這個足夠的我們都不知道數字那我們怎麼相信是呢報告委員我是說我現在腦袋裡面沒有這個數字我必須要從我同仁那邊來接受這樣的一個訊息\n974701\t979363\t也謝謝部長你的誠實你的誠實我也希望得到正確的這個數字請會後數字給本席我希望的再生能源它不是口號因為大家針對於能源政策跟現實的落差大家都是非常關鍵在關心也鼓勵政府要好好的做民眾也希望能夠得到一個正確的答案嘛對不對我們完全的這個看法是一致的\n1001055\t1007299\t因為任何能源是非常非常非常重要因為我們不希望又再跳票又再失言企業的看盤查投資布局企業的投資布局他們關係的我們能源到底足不足他們要怎麼樣的來布局所以這一點是非常重要我要請部長我也感謝你誠實的回答你頭腦沒有這個數字但是這個誠實也希望能夠真正的去落實我們的數字\n1031655\t1042981\t問到以後就會給你問到以後給我這個應該是你頭腦裡面就已經有這麼重大的決策一起加油希望讓民眾能夠安心好不好不要再跳票謝謝\n","txt":"郭文貴議員做詢答謝謝主席楊瓊瓊發言邀請部長郭部長\n我们看到媒体报道伊朗准备要封锁荷姆支海峡大家都知道荷姆支海峡是国际在运输运原油非常重要的航道那如果封锁了之后对我们的影响有多大呢请教部长\n我們現在還在評估啦我們有各種不同的這個所以我們有掌控這個訊息我們當然是從上個禮拜開始我們就掌控這個訊息上個禮拜開始那您認為評估了之後如果陳真那應該會陳真的情況之下我們影響會多大\n我們影響會根據國際油價的走勢做不同的推論譬如說現在油價來到80塊這個區間我們有80塊的做法當國際油價來到100塊我們100塊有什麼樣的對策包括我們要從哪個地方取得比較現貨的報價\n包括120、140我們都有做不斷的各種的方案去應對之那我們有多少的天然氣跟原油會從荷姆茲海峽通過呢我們大概目前來講這一個部分的話詳細的\n我們大概到目前為止大概會有多少我們現在目前所盤出來了目前來看應該是低於20%低於20%那低於20%呢這是目前我們所掌控的訊息所以換句話說封鎖了之後對我們是影響還是很大對我們影響就是說我們要繞過這個赫姆斯海峽然後這個影響對我們來講可能就是時間啦\n所以你的成本一定會增加嗎時間啊時間會更長嗎時間當然會更長嘛那個運費的部分啦運費的部分能夠攤底下來其實不多啦攤底不多現在是這個市場的行情在漲的時候會影響到我們的油價那這個是我們都有推論啦\n所以預估如果封鎖了荷姆茲海峽那麼原油有可能會漲我們都有一套這個計算的模式當然會漲當然會漲所以這個會針對我們會有影響我們一定要審慎對峙我們當然是非常的審慎的來評估所以我們有各種不同的\n各種不同的階段的影響評估我們在上個禮拜都已經做過好 上個禮拜開始應對接下來本席要跟你討論的我們請交通部次長也一併上來今天的主題高齡化我國智慧公共運具發展的目標我認為除了長遠的智慧運作發展是非常重要那公共運輸的部分我相信也必須要兼具的現狀\n落地有效如我們台中小王公車台中的服務員山海豚到梨山都是我們的所以在這樣的情況之下有很多的偏鄉所以早期大客車比較不容易進來的那所以呢我們民眾有時候等一班公車要等好久好久在這樣的情況之下\n有時候根本沒有車可以搭在這個偏鄉那所以呢我們台中市府就推出了小黃公車用計程車來取代大客車依照固定的路線固定的班次不僅它成本來節省也讓長輩讓學童讓身心障礙者以及讓通行者都能夠更加的受惠那盧市長上任之後呢我們更擴大\n小王公車的這個政策我也參與其中我也參與其中 甚至我們涵蓋了原市區以及我們縣區的三海屯總共21個22個行政區162里超過的班次有有這個26萬班次使用的服務的人次有達到178907人所以小王公車在整個補上運量\n不大 但是呢它實際上是非常非常的有效能因為它可以將需求的這個關鍵搭配呢可以降低成本所以在這邊要請教我們台中的小王公車是不是地方創新是一個成功的典範 次長\n包委員確實能夠把偏鄉的服務依照他的需求提供而且滿足是非常創新而且重要非常創新而且重要而且是一個成功的典範我們的部分就是您所知的幸福巴士跟幸福小房也一起來合作所以當時本席也特別低量本席也特別到現場去鼓勵所以本席要請教中央你是不是應該既然他是成功的\n而且是協助那在這樣的情況之下是不是應該要主動盤點全國還有哪一些的區塊他是否可以導入建立一個跨部位的協調平台從交通從經濟甚至在數位發展的一起來推動智慧型的\n小型運輸是謝謝委員這應該的這應該的對已經盤點到這個程度有些工作必須要重新思考哪些需求沒有被滿足所以你認同這個方向所以接下來我要請教經濟部長要麻煩縣市政府多幫忙\n縣市長我多幫忙 但是你中央要負責我們的經濟部長我知道這個對中央來講交通部他是主責但是我們經濟部我認為佔了很重要的角色也就是我們是不是可以透過中小企業相關的資源來協助車行的升級\n車輛要升級啊 車輛不升級 它拍出來沒有辦法這麼樣的迅速有效第一個 車輛升級 比如說我們導入了電動車 數位派遣AI的排班系統 讓小王公車它不只是交通工具 它更是智慧交通的一個轉型\n市長請你注意聽到 加雙市長是是謝謝委員的這個垂行這個部分我們馬上回來這個嚴明一下子好 非常感謝市長你聽到了部長願意要協助透過我們整合中小企業相關的這個資源所以我們希望小車也能夠有大力量那地方敢做能做的我們也希望經濟部他不是只有盤關就像部長我非常的這個這個讚許你願意\n一起跟交通部 我們從地方的資源 相關的中小企業資源跟交通部一起來做那在這樣的情況之下呢 我們覺得整個永續的在地的這個交通新模式 它是需要去落實的所以目前我們補助重大 這個大增運輸的部分都涵蓋在大型的營業者\n那對於剛剛交通部經濟部都認可的我們的這個小黃這一類的小型微型的經營者也應該要建立更友善的營運獎勵這個營運的這個獎勵措施讓地方真正成如剛剛交通部次長所說的他是地方創新地方業者也能夠投入帶動整個這個經濟鏈的一個成長那是否可以擴及到我們這種小型微型的一個經營者\n是謝謝委員吹薰這一部分凡是對我們國家這個中小微企業有幫助的這一些所有的這個推動活動我們中小企業署我們一定是不遺餘力全力以赴\n非常的感謝因為剛剛我特別先請交通次長來回答喔那這個呢在交通部跟經濟部大家都是非常認可我們在地方探求民眾的需求那麼多久時間可以研擬一套這個方案獎勵措施告訴我們讓我們地方的微型企業都能夠能夠得到政府的支持肯定跟落實\n是我們來跟這個中小企業署我想我們三個月內然後訪問這個所有的業者的心聲那麼看實際的這個可以產生什麼樣的效益我們三個月內可以提出來這一份的報告好那在討論的當中我也請交通部在這邊你要加入其中經濟部願意協助我們要謝謝我們希望在三個月內能夠得到一個答案交通部請回接下來本席要請問\n部長再生能源我們再來討論一下目標你一再跳票是2026年是不是會達標我們希望能夠達標但是部長我們討論的能源政策呢我看到2025年再生能源的配比是20%但是到今年的上半年我們初估大概是16.3%後來又說要到2026年11月份才能夠達成我請問2026年的目標會再跳票嗎\n報告委員2026年到目前為止我們很肯定的跟委員報告我們絕對不會讓他跳票2026年達到再生能源的20%不會被跳票因為北京今天看到這個在報紙上面你們說擴大無限量的發電量是否如此\n是否如此 是要因應這個2026年不會跳票嗎 是嗎是 我們現在在尋求各種的跨部門的協商我們希望以2026年不跳票作為我們最重要的一個方式以2026年\n不跳票的方式去尋找各種方式去落實接下來我們來討論原本強調的你的風光電太陽光的這個部分裝置容量2025年是達到20GW的目標但是去年也宣布是跳票了\n那你跳票也是延長到2026年但是我們看到光電的部分離20GW的目標我們還缺了5.49GW的一個缺口那學者業者都認為那一年如果增加兩個GW都了不得了那在這樣的情況之下都不看好2026年的這個打標會不會再延後\n光電的部分我們確實有碰到盧委員所垂行的這樣的一個困難但是我們在其他的方法其他的部分譬如說我們從這個風電還有這個地熱或者是水利我們希望能夠再加快\n所以剛剛部長你的回答也就是太陽光太陽光確定2026年還是達不到還會再延後我們2026年的11月達標還是我們第一個任務我們一定要想辦法達標我們只是說怕萬一\n怕萬一因為我們還仍然需要有一些地方政府的支持請問的是結果論喔2026年你達到20幾個月會達標嗎以目前我們的規劃會以目前的規劃 但是落實的腳程呢\n也是會 會達標落實的腳程也會達標是 但是我們需要所有國人大家共同的配合你有這個但是就是表示目前是有疑慮的沒有 這個是我們對於法彼此的認知啦那我肯定的告訴你會達標好\n2026年你認為太陽光電的部分呢是2026年會達到20%或是會達標那接下來本席跟你討論風電的部分風電2025年呢那麼你要達到5.6GW但是現在大概是3GW那進度會延後嗎也會不達標嗎風電我們會提早風電會提早在2025年你會達到5.6GW嗎\n2026年 我們還是2026年所以你的2025年要達到5.6計高的話是已經跳票所以宣布到2026年 請說明清楚那個是在過去的啊這個延一年也是在過去所承諾的事情好 所以你現在的封建是這所承諾的事情一定要2026因為你2025已經跳票 人民會怕啊那你現在2026 本席請教\n會不會跳票那個報告委員2025年延到2026年是因為COVID的關係所以當時上一任上一屆的這個政府有承諾讓他們延一年但我來接這個部長的時候就是完成2020年所以換句話說2026年你的這個風電的部分5.6GW你是要達到的\n是的好最後結論每年全國的電量上升不斷的在上升對不對部長需求量是上升的需求量我們都有估在我們計畫裡面當然是上升當然是上升那麼實際上我們發電量與20%的對應是有差距的因為政府的規劃在2030年再生能源的部分佔比是30%燃氣49%燃煤是多少呢\n2030年本期告訴你但是我們也聽到也看到考量便利的需求的成長率是2.1%對不對每一年的成長率大概2%2.1%是 報告委員您的資料是2.1那我們估的是2.4\n2.4還有需求那就是說我們每一年一直在增加好這個有個故事也就是每一年的需求電量是增加的所以屆時再生能源的發電量預計要將比2024年的330\n333億度會增加到2013年我們預估的2013年的976億度那換句話說是2024年的三倍所以本市要請教再生能源實際上的發電達到多少2024年及2025年到底數字是多少這個詳情的數目是請容許我回去再確認以後再跟您報告\n你頭腦現在沒有這個東西這個讓我們會害怕因為我們這個是最重要的能源政策而且2030年是確定要怎麼樣會有多少發電量這個應該我們的幕僚都有清楚吧怎麼會現在回答不出來呢\n您槌尋的完全正確啦是 謝謝我必須要準備啦所以我想下一次是不是請你提早告訴我我來這邊接受您執行部長 部長我已經非常非常\n理性的跟你討論所以我要的是2024年以及你預估2025年的數字因為已經告訴我們每一年的這個電量成長率是2甚至2.1 2.2現在你們估到2.4所以換句話說你們應該會知道\n到底我們2030年我們的發電量到底是多少才能夠讓我們很有信心的實際上你的發電量是足夠的嘛那如果連這個足夠的我們都不知道數字那我們怎麼相信是呢報告委員我是說我現在腦袋裡面沒有這個數字我必須要從我同仁那邊來接受這樣的一個訊息\n也謝謝部長你的誠實你的誠實我也希望得到正確的這個數字請會後數字給本席我希望的再生能源它不是口號因為大家針對於能源政策跟現實的落差大家都是非常關鍵在關心也鼓勵政府要好好的做民眾也希望能夠得到一個正確的答案嘛對不對我們完全的這個看法是一致的\n因為任何能源是非常非常非常重要因為我們不希望又再跳票又再失言企業的看盤查投資布局企業的投資布局他們關係的我們能源到底足不足他們要怎麼樣的來布局所以這一點是非常重要我要請部長我也感謝你誠實的回答你頭腦沒有這個數字但是這個誠實也希望能夠真正的去落實我們的數字\n問到以後就會給你問到以後給我這個應該是你頭腦裡面就已經有這麼重大的決策一起加油希望讓民眾能夠安心好不好不要再跳票謝謝\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.129 --> 00:10.459\n郭文貴議員做詢答謝謝主席楊瓊瓊發言邀請部長郭部長\n\n00:26.417 --> 00:45.664\n我们看到媒体报道伊朗准备要封锁荷姆支海峡大家都知道荷姆支海峡是国际在运输运原油非常重要的航道那如果封锁了之后对我们的影响有多大呢请教部长\n\n00:48.393 --> 01:05.388\n我們現在還在評估啦我們有各種不同的這個所以我們有掌控這個訊息我們當然是從上個禮拜開始我們就掌控這個訊息上個禮拜開始那您認為評估了之後如果陳真那應該會陳真的情況之下我們影響會多大\n\n01:06.008 --> 01:15.691\n我們影響會根據國際油價的走勢做不同的推論譬如說現在油價來到80塊這個區間我們有80塊的做法當國際油價來到100塊我們100塊有什麼樣的對策包括我們要從哪個地方取得比較現貨的報價\n\n01:28.254 --> 01:41.643\n包括120、140我們都有做不斷的各種的方案去應對之那我們有多少的天然氣跟原油會從荷姆茲海峽通過呢我們大概目前來講這一個部分的話詳細的\n\n01:44.685 --> 02:09.251\n我們大概到目前為止大概會有多少我們現在目前所盤出來了目前來看應該是低於20%低於20%那低於20%呢這是目前我們所掌控的訊息所以換句話說封鎖了之後對我們是影響還是很大對我們影響就是說我們要繞過這個赫姆斯海峽然後這個影響對我們來講可能就是時間啦\n\n02:11.572 --> 02:26.677\n所以你的成本一定會增加嗎時間啊時間會更長嗎時間當然會更長嘛那個運費的部分啦運費的部分能夠攤底下來其實不多啦攤底不多現在是這個市場的行情在漲的時候會影響到我們的油價那這個是我們都有推論啦\n\n02:35.040 --> 02:40.143\n所以預估如果封鎖了荷姆茲海峽那麼原油有可能會漲我們都有一套這個計算的模式當然會漲當然會漲所以這個會針對我們會有影響我們一定要審慎對峙我們當然是非常的審慎的來評估所以我們有各種不同的\n\n02:58.052 --> 03:26.631\n各種不同的階段的影響評估我們在上個禮拜都已經做過好上個禮拜開始應對接下來本席要跟你討論的我們請交通部次長也一併上來今天的主題高齡化我國智慧公共運具發展的目標我認為除了長遠的智慧運作發展是非常重要那公共運輸的部分我相信也必須要兼具的現狀\n\n03:28.072 --> 03:48.279\n落地有效如我們台中小王公車台中的服務員山海豚到梨山都是我們的所以在這樣的情況之下有很多的偏鄉所以早期大客車比較不容易進來的那所以呢我們民眾有時候等一班公車要等好久好久在這樣的情況之下\n\n03:49.119 --> 04:05.063\n有時候根本沒有車可以搭在這個偏鄉那所以呢我們台中市府就推出了小黃公車用計程車來取代大客車依照固定的路線固定的班次不僅它成本來節省也讓長輩讓學童讓身心障礙者以及讓通行者都能夠更加的受惠那盧市長上任之後呢我們更擴大\n\n04:15.905 --> 04:21.730\n小王公車的這個政策我也參與其中我也參與其中甚至我們涵蓋了原市區以及我們縣區的三海屯總共21個22個行政區162里超過的班次有有這個26萬班次使用的服務的人次有達到178907人所以小王公車在整個補上運量\n\n04:45.129 --> 04:53.412\n不大但是呢它實際上是非常非常的有效能因為它可以將需求的這個關鍵搭配呢可以降低成本所以在這邊要請教我們台中的小王公車是不是地方創新是一個成功的典範次長\n\n05:06.274 --> 05:34.386\n包委員確實能夠把偏鄉的服務依照他的需求提供而且滿足是非常創新而且重要非常創新而且重要而且是一個成功的典範我們的部分就是您所知的幸福巴士跟幸福小房也一起來合作所以當時本席也特別低量本席也特別到現場去鼓勵所以本席要請教中央你是不是應該既然他是成功的\n\n05:35.406 --> 05:38.030\n而且是協助那在這樣的情況之下是不是應該要主動盤點全國還有哪一些的區塊他是否可以導入建立一個跨部位的協調平台從交通從經濟甚至在數位發展的一起來推動智慧型的\n\n05:52.688 --> 06:07.330\n小型運輸是謝謝委員這應該的這應該的對已經盤點到這個程度有些工作必須要重新思考哪些需求沒有被滿足所以你認同這個方向所以接下來我要請教經濟部長要麻煩縣市政府多幫忙\n\n06:07.991 --> 06:23.004\n縣市長我多幫忙但是你中央要負責我們的經濟部長我知道這個對中央來講交通部他是主責但是我們經濟部我認為佔了很重要的角色也就是我們是不是可以透過中小企業相關的資源來協助車行的升級\n\n06:28.208 --> 06:45.820\n車輛要升級啊車輛不升級它拍出來沒有辦法這麼樣的迅速有效第一個車輛升級比如說我們導入了電動車數位派遣AI的排班系統讓小王公車它不只是交通工具它更是智慧交通的一個轉型\n\n06:48.584 --> 07:14.221\n市長請你注意聽到加雙市長是是謝謝委員的這個垂行這個部分我們馬上回來這個嚴明一下子好非常感謝市長你聽到了部長願意要協助透過我們整合中小企業相關的這個資源所以我們希望小車也能夠有大力量那地方敢做能做的我們也希望經濟部他不是只有盤關就像部長我非常的這個這個讚許你願意\n\n07:16.963 --> 07:32.849\n一起跟交通部我們從地方的資源相關的中小企業資源跟交通部一起來做那在這樣的情況之下呢我們覺得整個永續的在地的這個交通新模式它是需要去落實的所以目前我們補助重大這個大增運輸的部分都涵蓋在大型的營業者\n\n07:39.671 --> 08:01.966\n那對於剛剛交通部經濟部都認可的我們的這個小黃這一類的小型微型的經營者也應該要建立更友善的營運獎勵這個營運的這個獎勵措施讓地方真正成如剛剛交通部次長所說的他是地方創新地方業者也能夠投入帶動整個這個經濟鏈的一個成長那是否可以擴及到我們這種小型微型的一個經營者\n\n08:10.291 --> 08:24.797\n是謝謝委員吹薰這一部分凡是對我們國家這個中小微企業有幫助的這一些所有的這個推動活動我們中小企業署我們一定是不遺餘力全力以赴\n\n08:25.077 --> 08:46.442\n非常的感謝因為剛剛我特別先請交通次長來回答喔那這個呢在交通部跟經濟部大家都是非常認可我們在地方探求民眾的需求那麼多久時間可以研擬一套這個方案獎勵措施告訴我們讓我們地方的微型企業都能夠能夠得到政府的支持肯定跟落實\n\n08:47.322 --> 09:03.325\n是我們來跟這個中小企業署我想我們三個月內然後訪問這個所有的業者的心聲那麼看實際的這個可以產生什麼樣的效益我們三個月內可以提出來這一份的報告好那在討論的當中我也請交通部在這邊你要加入其中經濟部願意協助我們要謝謝我們希望在三個月內能夠得到一個答案交通部請回接下來本席要請問\n\n09:14.707 --> 09:36.741\n部長再生能源我們再來討論一下目標你一再跳票是2026年是不是會達標我們希望能夠達標但是部長我們討論的能源政策呢我看到2025年再生能源的配比是20%但是到今年的上半年我們初估大概是16.3%後來又說要到2026年11月份才能夠達成我請問2026年的目標會再跳票嗎\n\n09:44.105 --> 10:02.001\n報告委員2026年到目前為止我們很肯定的跟委員報告我們絕對不會讓他跳票2026年達到再生能源的20%不會被跳票因為北京今天看到這個在報紙上面你們說擴大無限量的發電量是否如此\n\n10:02.950 --> 10:19.041\n是否如此是要因應這個2026年不會跳票嗎是嗎是我們現在在尋求各種的跨部門的協商我們希望以2026年不跳票作為我們最重要的一個方式以2026年\n\n10:20.362 --> 10:23.924\n不跳票的方式去尋找各種方式去落實接下來我們來討論原本強調的你的風光電太陽光的這個部分裝置容量2025年是達到20GW的目標但是去年也宣布是跳票了\n\n10:35.509 --> 10:43.495\n那你跳票也是延長到2026年但是我們看到光電的部分離20GW的目標我們還缺了5.49GW的一個缺口那學者業者都認為那一年如果增加兩個GW都了不得了那在這樣的情況之下都不看好2026年的這個打標會不會再延後\n\n10:58.106 --> 11:15.042\n光電的部分我們確實有碰到盧委員所垂行的這樣的一個困難但是我們在其他的方法其他的部分譬如說我們從這個風電還有這個地熱或者是水利我們希望能夠再加快\n\n11:15.723 --> 11:18.364\n所以剛剛部長你的回答也就是太陽光太陽光確定2026年還是達不到還會再延後我們2026年的11月達標還是我們第一個任務我們一定要想辦法達標我們只是說怕萬一\n\n11:35.312 --> 11:46.464\n怕萬一因為我們還仍然需要有一些地方政府的支持請問的是結果論喔2026年你達到20幾個月會達標嗎以目前我們的規劃會以目前的規劃但是落實的腳程呢\n\n11:57.648 --> 12:13.206\n也是會會達標落實的腳程也會達標是但是我們需要所有國人大家共同的配合你有這個但是就是表示目前是有疑慮的沒有這個是我們對於法彼此的認知啦那我肯定的告訴你會達標好\n\n12:15.528 --> 12:22.010\n2026年你認為太陽光電的部分呢是2026年會達到20%或是會達標那接下來本席跟你討論風電的部分風電2025年呢那麼你要達到5.6GW但是現在大概是3GW那進度會延後嗎也會不達標嗎風電我們會提早風電會提早在2025年你會達到5.6GW嗎\n\n12:41.460 --> 12:50.226\n2026年我們還是2026年所以你的2025年要達到5.6計高的話是已經跳票所以宣布到2026年請說明清楚那個是在過去的啊這個延一年也是在過去所承諾的事情好所以你現在的封建是這所承諾的事情一定要2026因為你2025已經跳票人民會怕啊那你現在2026本席請教\n\n13:11.281 --> 13:30.549\n會不會跳票那個報告委員2025年延到2026年是因為COVID的關係所以當時上一任上一屆的這個政府有承諾讓他們延一年但我來接這個部長的時候就是完成2020年所以換句話說2026年你的這個風電的部分5.6GW你是要達到的\n\n13:36.738 --> 14:02.418\n是的好最後結論每年全國的電量上升不斷的在上升對不對部長需求量是上升的需求量我們都有估在我們計畫裡面當然是上升當然是上升那麼實際上我們發電量與20%的對應是有差距的因為政府的規劃在2030年再生能源的部分佔比是30%燃氣49%燃煤是多少呢\n\n14:04.380 --> 14:09.404\n2030年本期告訴你但是我們也聽到也看到考量便利的需求的成長率是2.1%對不對每一年的成長率大概2%2.1%是報告委員您的資料是2.1那我們估的是2.4\n\n14:24.216 --> 14:32.982\n2.4還有需求那就是說我們每一年一直在增加好這個有個故事也就是每一年的需求電量是增加的所以屆時再生能源的發電量預計要將比2024年的330\n\n14:40.245 --> 14:55.870\n333億度會增加到2013年我們預估的2013年的976億度那換句話說是2024年的三倍所以本市要請教再生能源實際上的發電達到多少2024年及2025年到底數字是多少這個詳情的數目是請容許我回去再確認以後再跟您報告\n\n15:03.888 --> 15:06.469\n你頭腦現在沒有這個東西這個讓我們會害怕因為我們這個是最重要的能源政策而且2030年是確定要怎麼樣會有多少發電量這個應該我們的幕僚都有清楚吧怎麼會現在回答不出來呢\n\n15:19.813 --> 15:30.887\n您槌尋的完全正確啦是謝謝我必須要準備啦所以我想下一次是不是請你提早告訴我我來這邊接受您執行部長部長我已經非常非常\n\n15:34.952 --> 15:49.260\n理性的跟你討論所以我要的是2024年以及你預估2025年的數字因為已經告訴我們每一年的這個電量成長率是2甚至2.12.2現在你們估到2.4所以換句話說你們應該會知道\n\n15:51.761 --> 15:55.965\n到底我們2030年我們的發電量到底是多少才能夠讓我們很有信心的實際上你的發電量是足夠的嘛那如果連這個足夠的我們都不知道數字那我們怎麼相信是呢報告委員我是說我現在腦袋裡面沒有這個數字我必須要從我同仁那邊來接受這樣的一個訊息\n\n16:14.701 --> 16:19.363\n也謝謝部長你的誠實你的誠實我也希望得到正確的這個數字請會後數字給本席我希望的再生能源它不是口號因為大家針對於能源政策跟現實的落差大家都是非常關鍵在關心也鼓勵政府要好好的做民眾也希望能夠得到一個正確的答案嘛對不對我們完全的這個看法是一致的\n\n16:41.055 --> 16:47.299\n因為任何能源是非常非常非常重要因為我們不希望又再跳票又再失言企業的看盤查投資布局企業的投資布局他們關係的我們能源到底足不足他們要怎麼樣的來布局所以這一點是非常重要我要請部長我也感謝你誠實的回答你頭腦沒有這個數字但是這個誠實也希望能夠真正的去落實我們的數字\n\n17:11.655 --> 17:22.981\n問到以後就會給你問到以後給我這個應該是你頭腦裡面就已經有這麼重大的決策一起加油希望讓民眾能夠安心好不好不要再跳票謝謝\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.129,"end":10.459,"text":"郭文貴議員做詢答謝謝主席楊瓊瓊發言邀請部長郭部長"},{"start":26.417,"end":45.664,"text":"我们看到媒体报道伊朗准备要封锁荷姆支海峡大家都知道荷姆支海峡是国际在运输运原油非常重要的航道那如果封锁了之后对我们的影响有多大呢请教部长"},{"start":48.393,"end":65.388,"text":"我們現在還在評估啦我們有各種不同的這個所以我們有掌控這個訊息我們當然是從上個禮拜開始我們就掌控這個訊息上個禮拜開始那您認為評估了之後如果陳真那應該會陳真的情況之下我們影響會多大"},{"start":66.008,"end":75.691,"text":"我們影響會根據國際油價的走勢做不同的推論譬如說現在油價來到80塊這個區間我們有80塊的做法當國際油價來到100塊我們100塊有什麼樣的對策包括我們要從哪個地方取得比較現貨的報價"},{"start":88.254,"end":101.643,"text":"包括120、140我們都有做不斷的各種的方案去應對之那我們有多少的天然氣跟原油會從荷姆茲海峽通過呢我們大概目前來講這一個部分的話詳細的"},{"start":104.685,"end":129.251,"text":"我們大概到目前為止大概會有多少我們現在目前所盤出來了目前來看應該是低於20%低於20%那低於20%呢這是目前我們所掌控的訊息所以換句話說封鎖了之後對我們是影響還是很大對我們影響就是說我們要繞過這個赫姆斯海峽然後這個影響對我們來講可能就是時間啦"},{"start":131.572,"end":146.677,"text":"所以你的成本一定會增加嗎時間啊時間會更長嗎時間當然會更長嘛那個運費的部分啦運費的部分能夠攤底下來其實不多啦攤底不多現在是這個市場的行情在漲的時候會影響到我們的油價那這個是我們都有推論啦"},{"start":155.04,"end":160.143,"text":"所以預估如果封鎖了荷姆茲海峽那麼原油有可能會漲我們都有一套這個計算的模式當然會漲當然會漲所以這個會針對我們會有影響我們一定要審慎對峙我們當然是非常的審慎的來評估所以我們有各種不同的"},{"start":178.052,"end":206.631,"text":"各種不同的階段的影響評估我們在上個禮拜都已經做過好 上個禮拜開始應對接下來本席要跟你討論的我們請交通部次長也一併上來今天的主題高齡化我國智慧公共運具發展的目標我認為除了長遠的智慧運作發展是非常重要那公共運輸的部分我相信也必須要兼具的現狀"},{"start":208.072,"end":228.279,"text":"落地有效如我們台中小王公車台中的服務員山海豚到梨山都是我們的所以在這樣的情況之下有很多的偏鄉所以早期大客車比較不容易進來的那所以呢我們民眾有時候等一班公車要等好久好久在這樣的情況之下"},{"start":229.119,"end":245.063,"text":"有時候根本沒有車可以搭在這個偏鄉那所以呢我們台中市府就推出了小黃公車用計程車來取代大客車依照固定的路線固定的班次不僅它成本來節省也讓長輩讓學童讓身心障礙者以及讓通行者都能夠更加的受惠那盧市長上任之後呢我們更擴大"},{"start":255.905,"end":261.73,"text":"小王公車的這個政策我也參與其中我也參與其中 甚至我們涵蓋了原市區以及我們縣區的三海屯總共21個22個行政區162里超過的班次有有這個26萬班次使用的服務的人次有達到178907人所以小王公車在整個補上運量"},{"start":285.129,"end":293.412,"text":"不大 但是呢它實際上是非常非常的有效能因為它可以將需求的這個關鍵搭配呢可以降低成本所以在這邊要請教我們台中的小王公車是不是地方創新是一個成功的典範 次長"},{"start":306.274,"end":334.386,"text":"包委員確實能夠把偏鄉的服務依照他的需求提供而且滿足是非常創新而且重要非常創新而且重要而且是一個成功的典範我們的部分就是您所知的幸福巴士跟幸福小房也一起來合作所以當時本席也特別低量本席也特別到現場去鼓勵所以本席要請教中央你是不是應該既然他是成功的"},{"start":335.406,"end":338.03,"text":"而且是協助那在這樣的情況之下是不是應該要主動盤點全國還有哪一些的區塊他是否可以導入建立一個跨部位的協調平台從交通從經濟甚至在數位發展的一起來推動智慧型的"},{"start":352.688,"end":367.33,"text":"小型運輸是謝謝委員這應該的這應該的對已經盤點到這個程度有些工作必須要重新思考哪些需求沒有被滿足所以你認同這個方向所以接下來我要請教經濟部長要麻煩縣市政府多幫忙"},{"start":367.991,"end":383.004,"text":"縣市長我多幫忙 但是你中央要負責我們的經濟部長我知道這個對中央來講交通部他是主責但是我們經濟部我認為佔了很重要的角色也就是我們是不是可以透過中小企業相關的資源來協助車行的升級"},{"start":388.208,"end":405.82,"text":"車輛要升級啊 車輛不升級 它拍出來沒有辦法這麼樣的迅速有效第一個 車輛升級 比如說我們導入了電動車 數位派遣AI的排班系統 讓小王公車它不只是交通工具 它更是智慧交通的一個轉型"},{"start":408.584,"end":434.221,"text":"市長請你注意聽到 加雙市長是是謝謝委員的這個垂行這個部分我們馬上回來這個嚴明一下子好 非常感謝市長你聽到了部長願意要協助透過我們整合中小企業相關的這個資源所以我們希望小車也能夠有大力量那地方敢做能做的我們也希望經濟部他不是只有盤關就像部長我非常的這個這個讚許你願意"},{"start":436.963,"end":452.849,"text":"一起跟交通部 我們從地方的資源 相關的中小企業資源跟交通部一起來做那在這樣的情況之下呢 我們覺得整個永續的在地的這個交通新模式 它是需要去落實的所以目前我們補助重大 這個大增運輸的部分都涵蓋在大型的營業者"},{"start":459.671,"end":481.966,"text":"那對於剛剛交通部經濟部都認可的我們的這個小黃這一類的小型微型的經營者也應該要建立更友善的營運獎勵這個營運的這個獎勵措施讓地方真正成如剛剛交通部次長所說的他是地方創新地方業者也能夠投入帶動整個這個經濟鏈的一個成長那是否可以擴及到我們這種小型微型的一個經營者"},{"start":490.291,"end":504.797,"text":"是謝謝委員吹薰這一部分凡是對我們國家這個中小微企業有幫助的這一些所有的這個推動活動我們中小企業署我們一定是不遺餘力全力以赴"},{"start":505.077,"end":526.442,"text":"非常的感謝因為剛剛我特別先請交通次長來回答喔那這個呢在交通部跟經濟部大家都是非常認可我們在地方探求民眾的需求那麼多久時間可以研擬一套這個方案獎勵措施告訴我們讓我們地方的微型企業都能夠能夠得到政府的支持肯定跟落實"},{"start":527.322,"end":543.325,"text":"是我們來跟這個中小企業署我想我們三個月內然後訪問這個所有的業者的心聲那麼看實際的這個可以產生什麼樣的效益我們三個月內可以提出來這一份的報告好那在討論的當中我也請交通部在這邊你要加入其中經濟部願意協助我們要謝謝我們希望在三個月內能夠得到一個答案交通部請回接下來本席要請問"},{"start":554.707,"end":576.741,"text":"部長再生能源我們再來討論一下目標你一再跳票是2026年是不是會達標我們希望能夠達標但是部長我們討論的能源政策呢我看到2025年再生能源的配比是20%但是到今年的上半年我們初估大概是16.3%後來又說要到2026年11月份才能夠達成我請問2026年的目標會再跳票嗎"},{"start":584.105,"end":602.001,"text":"報告委員2026年到目前為止我們很肯定的跟委員報告我們絕對不會讓他跳票2026年達到再生能源的20%不會被跳票因為北京今天看到這個在報紙上面你們說擴大無限量的發電量是否如此"},{"start":602.95,"end":619.041,"text":"是否如此 是要因應這個2026年不會跳票嗎 是嗎是 我們現在在尋求各種的跨部門的協商我們希望以2026年不跳票作為我們最重要的一個方式以2026年"},{"start":620.362,"end":623.924,"text":"不跳票的方式去尋找各種方式去落實接下來我們來討論原本強調的你的風光電太陽光的這個部分裝置容量2025年是達到20GW的目標但是去年也宣布是跳票了"},{"start":635.509,"end":643.495,"text":"那你跳票也是延長到2026年但是我們看到光電的部分離20GW的目標我們還缺了5.49GW的一個缺口那學者業者都認為那一年如果增加兩個GW都了不得了那在這樣的情況之下都不看好2026年的這個打標會不會再延後"},{"start":658.106,"end":675.042,"text":"光電的部分我們確實有碰到盧委員所垂行的這樣的一個困難但是我們在其他的方法其他的部分譬如說我們從這個風電還有這個地熱或者是水利我們希望能夠再加快"},{"start":675.723,"end":678.364,"text":"所以剛剛部長你的回答也就是太陽光太陽光確定2026年還是達不到還會再延後我們2026年的11月達標還是我們第一個任務我們一定要想辦法達標我們只是說怕萬一"},{"start":695.312,"end":706.464,"text":"怕萬一因為我們還仍然需要有一些地方政府的支持請問的是結果論喔2026年你達到20幾個月會達標嗎以目前我們的規劃會以目前的規劃 但是落實的腳程呢"},{"start":717.648,"end":733.206,"text":"也是會 會達標落實的腳程也會達標是 但是我們需要所有國人大家共同的配合你有這個但是就是表示目前是有疑慮的沒有 這個是我們對於法彼此的認知啦那我肯定的告訴你會達標好"},{"start":735.528,"end":742.01,"text":"2026年你認為太陽光電的部分呢是2026年會達到20%或是會達標那接下來本席跟你討論風電的部分風電2025年呢那麼你要達到5.6GW但是現在大概是3GW那進度會延後嗎也會不達標嗎風電我們會提早風電會提早在2025年你會達到5.6GW嗎"},{"start":761.46,"end":770.226,"text":"2026年 我們還是2026年所以你的2025年要達到5.6計高的話是已經跳票所以宣布到2026年 請說明清楚那個是在過去的啊這個延一年也是在過去所承諾的事情好 所以你現在的封建是這所承諾的事情一定要2026因為你2025已經跳票 人民會怕啊那你現在2026 本席請教"},{"start":791.281,"end":810.549,"text":"會不會跳票那個報告委員2025年延到2026年是因為COVID的關係所以當時上一任上一屆的這個政府有承諾讓他們延一年但我來接這個部長的時候就是完成2020年所以換句話說2026年你的這個風電的部分5.6GW你是要達到的"},{"start":816.738,"end":842.418,"text":"是的好最後結論每年全國的電量上升不斷的在上升對不對部長需求量是上升的需求量我們都有估在我們計畫裡面當然是上升當然是上升那麼實際上我們發電量與20%的對應是有差距的因為政府的規劃在2030年再生能源的部分佔比是30%燃氣49%燃煤是多少呢"},{"start":844.38,"end":849.404,"text":"2030年本期告訴你但是我們也聽到也看到考量便利的需求的成長率是2.1%對不對每一年的成長率大概2%2.1%是 報告委員您的資料是2.1那我們估的是2.4"},{"start":864.216,"end":872.982,"text":"2.4還有需求那就是說我們每一年一直在增加好這個有個故事也就是每一年的需求電量是增加的所以屆時再生能源的發電量預計要將比2024年的330"},{"start":880.245,"end":895.87,"text":"333億度會增加到2013年我們預估的2013年的976億度那換句話說是2024年的三倍所以本市要請教再生能源實際上的發電達到多少2024年及2025年到底數字是多少這個詳情的數目是請容許我回去再確認以後再跟您報告"},{"start":903.888,"end":906.469,"text":"你頭腦現在沒有這個東西這個讓我們會害怕因為我們這個是最重要的能源政策而且2030年是確定要怎麼樣會有多少發電量這個應該我們的幕僚都有清楚吧怎麼會現在回答不出來呢"},{"start":919.813,"end":930.887,"text":"您槌尋的完全正確啦是 謝謝我必須要準備啦所以我想下一次是不是請你提早告訴我我來這邊接受您執行部長 部長我已經非常非常"},{"start":934.952,"end":949.26,"text":"理性的跟你討論所以我要的是2024年以及你預估2025年的數字因為已經告訴我們每一年的這個電量成長率是2甚至2.1 2.2現在你們估到2.4所以換句話說你們應該會知道"},{"start":951.761,"end":955.965,"text":"到底我們2030年我們的發電量到底是多少才能夠讓我們很有信心的實際上你的發電量是足夠的嘛那如果連這個足夠的我們都不知道數字那我們怎麼相信是呢報告委員我是說我現在腦袋裡面沒有這個數字我必須要從我同仁那邊來接受這樣的一個訊息"},{"start":974.701,"end":979.363,"text":"也謝謝部長你的誠實你的誠實我也希望得到正確的這個數字請會後數字給本席我希望的再生能源它不是口號因為大家針對於能源政策跟現實的落差大家都是非常關鍵在關心也鼓勵政府要好好的做民眾也希望能夠得到一個正確的答案嘛對不對我們完全的這個看法是一致的"},{"start":1001.055,"end":1007.299,"text":"因為任何能源是非常非常非常重要因為我們不希望又再跳票又再失言企業的看盤查投資布局企業的投資布局他們關係的我們能源到底足不足他們要怎麼樣的來布局所以這一點是非常重要我要請部長我也感謝你誠實的回答你頭腦沒有這個數字但是這個誠實也希望能夠真正的去落實我們的數字"},{"start":1031.655,"end":1042.981,"text":"問到以後就會給你問到以後給我這個應該是你頭腦裡面就已經有這麼重大的決策一起加油希望讓民眾能夠安心好不好不要再跳票謝謝"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":258,"blocks":[["楊委員瓊瓔：（9時29分）謝謝主席。楊瓊瓔發言，邀請部長。"],["主席：郭部長。"],["郭部長智輝：委員早。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：部長好。部長，我們看到媒體報導伊朗準備要封鎖荷姆茲海峽，大家都知道荷姆茲海峽是國際運輸、運原油非常重要的航道，如果封鎖了之後，請教部長，對我們的影響有多大呢？"],["郭部長智輝：我們現在還在評估，我們有各種不同的選項……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：所以你們有掌控這個訊息？"],["郭部長智輝：我們當然是從上個禮拜開始就掌控這個訊息。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：您認為在評估之後如果成真，在應該會成真的情況之下，對我們影響會多大？"],["郭部長智輝：我們會根據國際油價的走勢做不同的推論，譬如說，現在油價來到80塊這個區間，我們有80塊的作法；當國際油價來到100塊，對100塊我們有什麼樣的對策，包括要從哪個地方取得比較具現貨的報價，包括120、140塊，我們都有不斷地做推論。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：有各種的方案去應對之？"],["郭部長智輝：是的。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：我們有多少的天然氣跟原油會從荷姆茲海峽通過呢？"],["郭部長智輝：目前來講這個部分的話，詳細的要通過荷姆茲海峽應該……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：到目前為止，大概會有多少？"],["郭部長智輝：我們現在所盤出來的，以目前來看，應該是低於20%。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：低於20%是目前我們所掌控的訊息，所以換句話說，封鎖了之後，對我們影響還是很大、甚鉅？"],["郭部長智輝：對我們的影響就是要繞過荷姆茲海峽，這個影響對我們來講可能就是到貨的時間。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：所以你的成本一定會增加，時間啊！時間會更長嘛？"],["郭部長智輝：時間當然會更長，那是運費的部分啦！"],["楊委員瓊瓔：對、對！當然。"],["郭部長智輝：運費的部分能夠攤提下來，其實不多啦！"],["楊委員瓊瓔：攤提不多，但影響是20%以下。"],["郭部長智輝：報告委員，現在是市場行情在漲的時候會影響到我們的油價，我們都有推論啦！"],["楊委員瓊瓔：所以預估如果封鎖了荷姆茲海峽，原油有可能會漲？"],["郭部長智輝：我們都有一套計算的模式。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：有可能會漲，是不是？"],["郭部長智輝：當然會漲。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：所以這個對我們會有影響，我們一定要審慎對之，現在大家都全力以赴。"],["郭部長智輝：我們當然是非常審慎地評估……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：審慎評估。"],["郭部長智輝：所以我們有各種不同階段的影響評估，我們在上個禮拜都已經做過了。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：好，上個禮拜開始應對。接下來本席要跟你討論的，請交通部次長也一併上來。"],["主席：林次長。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：今天的主題「因應高齡化，我國智慧公共運具發展及目標」，我認為除了長遠的智慧運具發展是非常重要，在公共運輸的部分，我相信也必須要兼具的現狀是落地、有效，如臺中小黃公車，臺中的幅員山海屯到梨山都是我們的，在這樣的情況之下有很多的偏鄉。早期大客車比較不容易進來的地方，民眾有時候等一班公車要等好久好久，在這樣的情況之下，在偏鄉有時候根本沒有車可以搭，所以臺中市府就推出小黃公車，用計程車來取代大客車，依照固定的路線、固定的班次，不僅節省成本，也讓長輩、讓學童、讓身心障礙者以及讓通行者都能夠更加受惠。從盧市長上任之後，我們更擴大小黃公車的政策，我也參與其中，甚至我們涵蓋原市區以及縣區的山海屯，總共22個行政區、162里，超過的班次有26萬班次，使用服務的人次達到17萬8,907人。雖然小黃公車能補上的運量不大，但它實際上是非常非常地有效能，因為它可以滿足需求、降低成本。所以在這邊要請教次長，臺中的小黃公車是不是地方創新的成功典範？"],["林次長國顯：報告委員，確實能夠把偏鄉的服務，依照它的需求提供而且滿足，是非常創新且很重要的……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：非常創新且重要，而且是一個成功的典範。"],["林次長國顯：對。我們的部分就是您熟知的幸福巴士跟幸福小黃也一起來合作。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：一起合作，對。當時本席也特別到現場去鼓勵，所以本席要請教，既然它是成功的，而且是協助民眾，在這樣的情況之下，是不是應該要主動盤點全國還有哪一些區塊是否可以導入建立一個跨部會的協調平臺，從交通、從經濟，甚至在數位發展的部分，一起來推動智慧型的小型運輸？"],["林次長國顯：是，謝謝委員，這應該的。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：這應該的喔！"],["林次長國顯：對，已經盤點到這個程度，有些工作必須要重新思考哪些需求沒有被滿足。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：對！所以你認同這個方向？接下來我要請教經濟部長……"],["林次長國顯：我認同，以後麻煩縣市政府多幫忙。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：縣市政府多幫忙，但是中央要負責啊！請經濟部長。"],["林次長國顯：沒有問題，謝謝。"],["主席：郭部長。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：我知道對中央來講，交通部是主責，但是我認為經濟部占了很重要的角色，也就是我們是不是可以透過中小企業相關的資源來協助車行的升級，車行要升級啊！車行不升級，派車沒有辦法迅速、有效。第一個車行升級，比如說，我們導入電動車、數位派遣、AI的排班系統，讓小黃公車不只是交通工具，更是智慧交通的轉型，部長？交通部次長，請你注意聽。"],["郭部長智輝：是，謝謝委員的垂詢。這個部分我們馬上回去研擬一下……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：好，非常感謝。次長，你聽到了，部長願意協助，透過整合中小企業相關的資源，我們希望小車也能夠有大力量，地方敢做、能做的，我們也希望經濟部不是只有旁觀，就像部長，我非常地讚許你願意一起跟交通部合作，我們從地方的資源、相關的中小企業資源跟交通部一起來做，在這樣的情況之下，我們覺得整個永續、在地的交通新模式是需要去落實的。目前我們補助大眾運輸的部分都涵蓋大型的營業者，對於剛剛交通部、經濟部都認可的小黃這一類小型、微型的經營者，也應該要建立更友善的營運獎勵措施，誠如剛剛交通部次長所說的，它是地方創新，地方業者也能夠投入，帶動整個經濟鏈的成長，是否可以擴及到小型、微型的經營者，部長？"],["郭部長智輝：是，謝謝委員垂詢。這一部分，凡是對國家中小微企業有幫助的推動活動，中小企業署一定是不遺餘力，全力以赴來做。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：非常地感謝。剛剛我特別先請交通部次長回答，這部分在交通部跟經濟部，大家都是非常認可，我們在地方探求民瘼、民眾的需求，請問多久時間可以研擬一套方案、獎勵措施告訴我們，讓地方的微型企業都能夠得到政府的支持、肯定跟落實，請說明。"],["郭部長智輝：是，我們來跟中小企業署，在三個月內訪問所有業者的心聲，看實際可以產生什麼樣的效益，我們三個月內可以提出報告。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：好，在討論當中，我也請交通部要加入其中，經濟部願意協助，我們要謝謝，我們希望在三個月內能夠得到一個答案。交通部請回。","接下來，本席要請問部長，我們再來討論一下再生能源，目標你一再跳票，2026年是不是會達標？我們希望能夠達標。但是部長，我們討論的能源政策，我看到2025年再生能源的配比是20%，但是到今年的上半年，粗估大概是16.3%，後來又說要到2026年11月份才能夠達成，請問2026年的目標會再跳票嗎？"],["郭部長智輝：報告委員，到目前為止，我們很肯定地跟委員報告，我們絕對不會讓2026年跳票。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：2026年達到再生能源的20%，不會被跳票！"],["郭部長智輝：20%，我們絕對不會讓它跳票。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：本席今天也在報紙上面看到，你們說擴大無限量的發電量，是否如此？是否如此？是要因應2026年不會跳票嗎？是嗎？"],["郭部長智輝：是，我們現在在尋求各種跨部門的協商，希望以2026年不跳票作為我們最重要的方式。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：以2026年不跳票去尋找各種方式落實。接下來我們討論，原本強調的風光電，太陽光的部分，裝置容量2025年是達到20GW的目標，但是去年也宣布跳票了，你跳票也是延長到2026年，我們看到光電的部分離20GW的目標還缺了5.49GW的缺口，學者、業者都認為一年如果增加2個GW就不得了，在這樣的情況之下都不看好2026年的達標，會不會再延後？"],["郭部長智輝：光電的部分，我們確實有碰到如委員所垂詢的困難，但是我們在其他的方法、其他的部分，譬如說我們從風電還有地熱或者是水力，我們希望能夠再加快來滿足2%這樣一個目標。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：好，所以剛剛部長的回答也就是太陽光確定2026年還是達不到，還會再延後？"],["郭部長智輝：沒有，報告委員，2026年11月達標還是我們第一個任務，一定要想辦法達標，我們只是說怕萬一。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：怕萬一，我記得了，怕萬一。"],["郭部長智輝：對，因為我們仍然需要有一些……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：你的目標還是希望達標。"],["郭部長智輝：我們要有一些地方政府的支持，要很多人……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：本席請問的是結果論，2026年20 GW會達標嗎？"],["郭部長智輝：以目前我們的規劃會。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：以目前的規劃，但是落實的腳程？"],["郭部長智輝：也是會達標。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：落實的腳程也會達標？"],["郭部長智輝：是，但是我們需要所有國人大家共同的配合。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：你有這個「但是」就是表示目前是有疑慮的。"],["郭部長智輝：沒有，這個是我們的語法、彼此的認知，我很肯定地告訴你會達標。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：好，你認為太陽光電的部分是2026年會達到20%，就是會達標。接下來本席跟你討論風電的部分，風電2025年你要達到5.6 GW，但是現在大約是3GW，進度會延後嗎？也會不達標嗎？"],["郭部長智輝：風電我們會提早。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：風電會提早，在2025年會達到5.6 GW嗎？部長。"],["郭部長智輝：我們還是2026年。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：所以你的2025年要達到5.6 GW是已經跳票，所以宣布到2026年？請說明清楚。"],["郭部長智輝：那個是在過去，延一年也是在過去所承諾的事情。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：好，所以你現在的風電是2026……"],["郭部長智輝：對承諾的事情一定要落實嘛！"],["楊委員瓊瓔：因為你2025已經跳票，人民會怕，你現在說2026，本席請教會不會跳票？"],["郭部長智輝：報告委員，2025年延到2026年是因為COVID的關係，所以當時上一任、上一屆的政府有承諾讓他們延一年，我來接部長的時候就是2026年完成……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：所以換句話說2026年風電的部分5.6 GW是要達到的？"],["郭部長智輝：是的。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：好，最後結論，每年全國的電量不斷在上升，對不對？部長，需求量是上升的。"],["郭部長智輝：需求量我們都有估在我們的計畫裡面。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：是上升的嘛！是不是？"],["郭部長智輝：當然是上升。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：實際上我們發電量與20%的對應是有差距的，因為政府的規劃，2030年再生能源的部分占比是30%、燃氣49%，燃煤是多少呢？20%。"],["郭部長智輝：那是2030年，你現在所垂詢的……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：對，2030年，本席告訴你，但是我們也聽到、也看到，考量電力需求的成長率是2.1%，對不對？每一年的成長率大概2%，每一年2.1%。"],["郭部長智輝：是，報告委員，您的資料是2.1%啦，我們估的是2.4%。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：就是說我們每一年的需求一直在增加。好，有這個故事，也就是每一年的需求電量是增加的，所以屆時再生能源的發電量，預計將要比2024年的333億度，會增加到2030年預估的976億度，換句話說是2024年的3倍，所以本席要請教，再生能源實際上的發電達到多少？2024年及2025年，到底數字是多少？"],["郭部長智輝：詳細的數目字請容許我回去確認以後再跟您報告。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：你頭腦現在沒有這個東西？"],["郭部長智輝：沒有。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：這個讓我們會害怕，因為這個是最重要的能源政策，而且2030年是確定要怎麼樣會有多少發電量，這個幕僚應該都清楚吧！怎麼會現在回答不出來呢？"],["郭部長智輝：委員，您垂詢的完全正確。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：是，謝謝。"],["郭部長智輝：只是我必須要準備，所以我想下一次是不是請你提早告訴我，我來這邊接受您質詢……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：部長，我已經非常非常理性地跟你討論，所以我要的是2024年以及你預估2025年的數字，因為已經告訴我們每一年的電量成長率是2，甚至2.1、2.2，現在你們估到2.4，所以換句話說，你們應該會知道2030年的發電量到底是多少，才能夠讓我們對於實際上你的發電量是足夠的很有信心嘛！如果連這個足夠的數字我們都不知道，那我們怎麼相信之呢？"],["郭部長智輝：報告委員，我是說我現在腦袋裡面沒有這個數字，我必須要從我同仁那邊來接收這樣的一個訊息……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：好，也謝謝部長你的誠實，我也希望得到正確的數字，請會後把數字給本席，我希望再生能源不是口號，因為大家針對於能源政策跟現實的落差都是非常關鍵在關心，也鼓勵政府要好好做，民眾也希望能夠得到一個正確的答案嘛！對不對？"],["郭部長智輝：我們的看法是完全一致的，因為任何能源都非常非常非常重要。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：是，因為我們不希望又再跳票、又再次延，企業的碳盤查、投資布局，他們關心我們能源到底足不足、他們要怎麼樣來布局，所以這一點是非常重要，我要請部長……"],["郭部長智輝：是，這一點我……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：我也感謝你誠實地回答你頭腦沒有這個數字，但是這個誠實也希望能夠真正地去落實我們的數字。"],["郭部長智輝：這個數字我等一下問到了以後就會給你。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：問到以後給我，這個應該是你頭腦裡面就已經要有，這麼重大的決策，一起加油，希望能夠讓民眾安心，好不好？"],["郭部長智輝：好，謝謝委員。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：不要再跳票，謝謝。"],["主席：好，謝謝，我們現在請張啓楷委員做詢答。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":396,"meet_id":"委員會-11-3-19-17","speakers":["謝衣鳯","陳亭妃","楊瓊瓔","張啓楷","鄭正鈐","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","呂玉玲","邱志偉","陳超明","賴瑞隆","李坤城","蔡易餘","翁曉玲","葉元之","謝龍介","邱鎮軍","張嘉郡","徐欣瑩","邱議瑩","翁曉玲"],"page_start":337,"meetingDate":["2025-06-23"],"gazette_id":"1146401","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1146401_00008"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期經濟委員會第17次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請經濟部部長、國家發展委員會主任委員、交通部首長及國家科學及技術委員會首長就「因應\n高齡化社會，我國智慧公共運具發展及目標」進行報告，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1146401_00007"}}}