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{\"word\": \"量\", \"start\": 540.97, \"end\": 540.99, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"過\"}, {\"word\": \"多\", \"start\": 540.99, \"end\": 541.09, \"score\": 0.8}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 541.09, \"end\": 541.21, \"score\": 0.624}, {\"word\": \"問\"}, {\"word\": \"題\"}, {\"word\": \"超\", \"start\": 541.21, \"end\": 541.31, \"score\": 0.8}, {\"word\": \"時\"}, {\"word\": \"加\", \"start\": 541.31, \"end\": 541.33, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"班\", \"start\": 541.33, \"end\": 541.35, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 541.35, \"end\": 541.37, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"問\"}, {\"word\": \"題\"}, {\"word\": \"其\", \"start\": 541.37, \"end\": 541.39, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"實\"}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"工\", \"start\": 541.39, \"end\": 541.41, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"協\"}, {\"word\": \"助\", \"start\": 541.41, \"end\": 541.43, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"方\", \"start\": 541.43, \"end\": 541.55, \"score\": 0.672}, {\"word\": \"案\", \"start\": 541.55, 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\"score\": 0.903}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"署\", \"start\": 744.348, \"end\": 744.488, \"score\": 0.833}, {\"word\": \"長\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"主\", \"start\": 744.488, \"end\": 744.508, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"席\", \"start\": 744.508, \"end\": 744.528, \"score\": 0.0}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:09,700 --> 00:00:12,703\n好謝謝主席那有請周署長請周署長\n\n2\n00:00:19,844 --> 00:00:42,928\n好署長早安署長我還是想繼續跟你談我們之前有研究過的一些題目那雖然吳宗憲朝我一直提醒我你要退休但我相信署長你一定會把我們所有委員關心的題目跟後續的署長交接對嗎是謝謝署長我要先談一下在107年的時候當時的法務部長邱太三他做了一個承諾那確實你們後續也都做到了\n\n3\n00:00:43,228 --> 00:01:07,338\n他說希望可以在109年的時候達到一人一床監所零超收這個願景非常的好我們來往下看我們看你們逐年收容的這個人數我來看一下從110到111112123確實到13確實都沒有超收可是我比較好奇到了114年5月底這個是你們\n\n4\n00:01:08,138 --> 00:01:23,436\n法務部自己的資料統計這個我們還沒有鎖死網站上就看得到到了五月底的時候已經有超額收容的問題我比較好奇這個超額收容是怎麼樣造成的我猜想會不會是因為近年來詐騙案\n\n5\n00:01:25,498 --> 00:01:39,445\n很猖獗那各部會積極辦案的結果積極調查的情況下讓收容人數上升因為我們之前看少年犯有很多確實是因為詐欺詐騙我不知道在成人或是其他整個統計上是不是因為這樣\n\n6\n00:01:40,931 --> 00:01:55,157\n是報告委員確實是這個詐欺犯他上升到第一名來所以有一些人數上我們的突破六萬人我們的核定收入是60552\n\n7\n00:01:57,661 --> 00:02:14,217\n那目前目前應該也是6萬出頭一點點對啦其實只有超收42個人比例也不高可是我認為如果如果真的是我剛推估的你也說確實是因為詐騙案的關係我們的收容人越來越多\n\n8\n00:02:14,597 --> 00:02:30,430\n那我認為雖然各部會已經很努力打詐可是壞人比我們更用功比我們更努力他們會努力想出各式各樣的方法詐騙常常我聽到很多案例我都覺得瞠目結舌非常可怕那我們如何看待這個情況跟後續你們有沒有什麼因應的方案\n\n9\n00:02:31,889 --> 00:02:49,669\n對於那個詐騙集團他普遍有不勞而獲的心態所以原則上我們會加強他的技能訓練還有相關的法治先導那可是對不對署長我知道這是裡面教化的部分但是超收這個部分他很有可能節節必高喔數字\n\n10\n00:02:51,397 --> 00:03:08,753\n對於超收的部分我們會看它的超收比例尤其是超收超過兩成以上的我們就會積極辦理移間原則上從北部移到中南部去所以你認為如果全台灣通盤考慮我們目前還有些餘裕空間上\n\n11\n00:03:09,764 --> 00:03:14,686\n我們是可以盤點哪個地方它的空間比較多的我們就把它移植到那個地方去但是因為這個表格法務部的這個表格是針對所有的收容機構矯正機構\n\n12\n00:03:26,690 --> 00:03:44,316\n的收容人數我想要拜託我們有沒有機會請你們幫我們提供一個統計數字是個別監所因為剛剛署長您自己提到可以北中南做調整所以我也就很好奇北中南東現在所有矯正機關各自的收容人數單獨個別的統計數字不用現在給我有機會可以幫我們統計嗎\n\n13\n00:03:47,637 --> 00:04:01,126\n我們已經有這個比如說哪個機關超收我們會有延遷表示比如說超過兩成的有幾所我們都有依照這個來參考然後辦理一間的作業那這個數字再拜託你們給我們辦公室\n\n14\n00:04:04,088 --> 00:04:22,924\n會後再提供給我們好謝謝那如果超收我們其實就會比較擔心之前也跟署長討論過下一張關於人力的部分其實也是希望幫所有願意進到矯正機構工作的專業員工跟您討論就是在人數比的部分我上次還沒有跟您討論完我想跟您請教\n\n15\n00:04:23,624 --> 00:04:49,267\n所謂教化人力上次你們給我們的數字是1比138那介護人力是1比11新社跟醫事都各自其實看起來那個比例上會讓人感到有一點擔心會不會所有這些矯正機關的工作人員專業人力工作負擔過重我不是很確定所以我想要請問一下所謂教化人力在你們的定義當中它的工作內容工作樣態大概有哪些\n\n16\n00:04:50,598 --> 00:05:07,098\n報告委員教化人力主要是教委師或一些輔導員他們主要是辦理假釋的業務或劣勁處理分數的業務那當然從這個表看起來我們的教化人力確實負擔蠻重的所以我們\n\n17\n00:05:08,459 --> 00:05:37,379\n針對我們的行刑累進處理在民國35年訂定有點老舊不合時宜的我們會把它作為簡化考核制度因為現行的民國幾年則分數不同打的分數每個月進幾哩都不一樣非常的繁瑣我們會把它作為簡化考核制度之後讓每個教委是在假釋辦理或是累進處理的辦理方面會比較有效率\n\n18\n00:05:37,899 --> 00:05:57,004\n而且減輕他的負擔所以這個我們正在努力正在努力意思就是說你們已經在研議簡化考核的事情那現在的進度你們可不可以給我們知道一下我們原則上有在報法務部第三次報法務部因為我們會會相關的私處他們都有一些意見再回來我們再針對這個意見再來做微調\n\n19\n00:06:05,106 --> 00:06:26,725\n好那簡化這個流程之後是不是會讓這個人數比看起來人數比會降低嗎應該不會我們只是調整他們的工作內容但工作比還會是人數比還會是這樣那我比較好奇第一線的教化人員有讓你們知道說其實假設未來就算簡化其實工作量還是會有點太超過\n\n20\n00:06:27,686 --> 00:06:47,567\n還是其實我不是很確定簡化之後包括累進主義假釋就單純化了所以對他可能原來要加班的加班的時數會就降低了是有實際的幫助所以我們簡化的目標就是希望讓他們的工作loading不要太重然後不要每個人都過度的加班\n\n21\n00:06:48,047 --> 00:07:06,940\n那這個簡化的過程當中也要拜託要積極聆聽第一線工作同仁的聲音尤其是您剛剛說這些在現場第一線的教化人力他們的需求跟他們的困境他們的狀況我認為既然已經有在研議中拜託你們要聽他們的聲音是這個我們就有聽取我們就有收集他們的意見所屬機關的意見在做處理的\n\n22\n00:07:10,583 --> 00:07:38,610\n好那上個禮拜還跟您討論到關於新設跟醫事人力喔這個部分當然是指針對受刑人的部分但是因為這個數字是整體所有的矯正機構我其實還蠻好奇那各個的矯正機構包含少角校少官所或者是其他的矯正機構各別的人力統計數字這個你們有現行的統計數字嗎可以會後提供給我們辦公室嗎這個已經有了好個別的我說的是個別\n\n23\n00:07:39,730 --> 00:08:02,883\n新設人力的跟議事人力我們有分開來好那在會後再提供給我們會後可以提供好沒問題那我們來看一下剛剛指的是受刑人的部分我們現在來看一下監所員工的協助方案因為我們都希望所有的積極的行政作為都是希望減輕現場工作人員的負擔那相關的新聞我就不再贅述我相信署長你一定知道\n\n24\n00:08:03,283 --> 00:08:13,841\n我上一次也問過你心理協助方案但時間有限我現在想要積極跟您討論到底我們現在積極協助監所員工的協助方案內容大概有哪些\n\n25\n00:08:14,915 --> 00:08:41,285\n所謂的員工協助方案我們員工協助方案是只要各機關的人士是在負責包括他有情緒或有被霸凌的都可以提出來那至於這個案件我們也有我們不要講個案我們不要講個案我希望知道的是所有這些歸屬於矯正署底下的所有在監索員工裡面他們的協助方案大概的樣態有哪些\n\n26\n00:08:41,505 --> 00:08:56,627\n大概樣態比如說他有情緒障礙那我們人事室他願意把他的苦惱煩惱講出來那我們會看情況有必要諮商的我們會請心理師或是社工員來協助\n\n27\n00:08:57,788 --> 00:09:01,890\n有一套現行的機制細節可以再提供給我們但我很好奇你們有沒有近年來的統計數字或者是他們提出來的協助方案內容因為我認為不會只有情緒的問題可能還有在職場現場裡面跟長官溝通的問題跟同仁溝通的問題工作量過多的問題超時加班的問題其實員工協助方案可以是全方面的\n\n28\n00:09:21,499 --> 00:09:50,767\n那當然我知道必須要把這個機制引入監索員工協助方案確實還需要一些時間他也需要跟外面的專業機構對話甚至可能還需要衛福部的協助那具體的內容可不可以會後再提供給我們我指的是針對員工的協助員工協助方案的數據我這邊的數據是沒有看到啦那我們會後再看看有沒有這些數據我們可以再跟你們討論到底你們想要促進哪些事情\n\n29\n00:09:56,011 --> 00:10:13,207\n我們去考察了城鎮我們看到那個孩子們的住宿的設防狀況真的不是太好可是我們也看到城鎮他們有在調整室內空間有相關預算跟計畫在進行不過我們其實還是普遍擔心不管是城鎮還是後續其他我們還沒有去看的\n\n30\n00:10:14,047 --> 00:10:31,599\n兩所矯正學校其實孩子們的住宿品質包含所有監所住宿品質我認為這件事情有機會應該要積極的提升但是關於各個監所住宿品質狀況我們今天就沒有辦法細說但是後續我們辦公室希望可以跟矯正署做更多的討論好不好\n\n31\n00:10:32,580 --> 00:10:59,103\n尤其是我們剛剛都發現了嘛因為詐騙案的事情不管是成人監所或者是矯正學校啊少管所他們的收容人數都越來越高我覺得這個困境我們一起來面對好不好好最後來下一張這個課程其實我上次跟您討論過了就是我們其實還是覺得這個課程有沒有真的可以發揮協助學生復歸社會的可能性那當然上次你已經講了\n\n32\n00:10:59,724 --> 00:11:14,161\n有一些因為學生來來去去你們必須要routine的進行這些事情但我們真的還是認為有討論的空間我就直白的說例如說弟子規這個在一般的學校很多家長跟很多老師就已經\n\n33\n00:11:16,370 --> 00:11:33,411\n認為單獨的讓學生背誦弟子規甚至讓他們非常枯燥的抄寫沒有真的可以對人的品性產生矯正的可能性那可能這些孩子在學校裡面搞不好也受過這種折磨我們現在讓他們在教校裡面還要做這個事情嗎我是先有一個問號\n\n34\n00:11:34,432 --> 00:12:01,082\n那當然除非你們設計的課程內容或者是你們的方法特別有經過特別教學設計課程設計活動方案真的可以促進他們去靠近這個東西否則我們整體課程看起來還是會有點擔心啦吼那我的意思是提醒說光是在課程的部分我們就可以做更多好的設計當然我知道需要專業人力的協助需要國教組的協助我們一起往這裡努力我先把問題提出來再一次的提出來好不好\n\n35\n00:12:01,522 --> 00:12:24,528\n好的謝謝委員好謝謝署長所以我大概今天幾個重點一個是人力的部分再來是員工協助的部分再來是腳效的住宿空間那這些相關資料不管是您剛剛說要提供給我們的我們都會再整理發公文給你們或者是後續有機會在兩個月內提供給我們嗎可以可以兩個月內那就這樣這麼多議題我們一起努力好謝謝署長謝謝主席\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n9700\t12703\t好 謝謝主席 那有請周署長請周署長\n19844\t42928\t好署長早安署長我還是想繼續跟你談我們之前有研究過的一些題目那雖然吳宗憲朝我一直提醒我你要退休但我相信署長你一定會把我們所有委員關心的題目跟後續的署長交接對嗎是謝謝署長我要先談一下在107年的時候當時的法務部長邱太三他做了一個承諾那確實你們後續也都做到了\n43228\t67338\t他說希望可以在109年的時候達到一人一床監所零超收這個願景非常的好我們來往下看我們看你們逐年收容的這個人數我來看一下從110到111 112 123確實到13確實都沒有超收可是我比較好奇到了114年5月底這個是你們\n68138\t83436\t法務部自己的資料統計這個我們還沒有鎖死網站上就看得到到了五月底的時候已經有超額收容的問題我比較好奇這個超額收容是怎麼樣造成的我猜想會不會是因為近年來詐騙案\n85498\t99445\t很猖獗那各部會積極辦案的結果積極調查的情況下讓收容人數上升因為我們之前看少年犯有很多確實是因為詐欺詐騙我不知道在成人或是其他整個統計上是不是因為這樣\n100931\t115157\t是 報告委員確實是這個詐欺犯他上升到第一名來所以有一些人數上我們的突破六萬人我們的核定收入是60552\n117661\t134217\t那目前目前應該也是6萬出頭一點點對啦其實只有超收42個人比例也不高可是我認為如果如果真的是我剛推估的你也說確實是因為詐騙案的關係我們的收容人越來越多\n134597\t150430\t那我認為雖然各部會已經很努力打詐可是壞人比我們更用功比我們更努力他們會努力想出各式各樣的方法詐騙常常我聽到很多案例我都覺得瞠目結舌非常可怕那我們如何看待這個情況跟後續你們有沒有什麼因應的方案\n151889\t169669\t對於那個詐騙集團他普遍有不勞而獲的心態所以原則上我們會加強他的技能訓練還有相關的法治先導那可是 對不對署長我知道這是裡面教化的部分但是超收這個部分他很有可能節節必高喔 數字\n171397\t188753\t對於超收的部分我們會看它的超收比例尤其是超收超過兩成以上的我們就會積極辦理移間原則上從北部移到中南部去所以你認為如果全台灣通盤考慮我們目前還有些餘裕空間上\n189764\t194686\t我們是可以盤點哪個地方它的空間比較多的我們就把它移植到那個地方去但是因為這個表格法務部的這個表格是針對所有的收容機構 矯正機構\n206690\t224316\t的收容人數我想要拜託我們有沒有機會請你們幫我們提供一個統計數字是個別監所因為剛剛署長您自己提到可以北中南做調整所以我也就很好奇北中南東現在所有矯正機關各自的收容人數單獨個別的統計數字不用現在給我有機會可以幫我們統計嗎\n227637\t241126\t我們已經有這個比如說哪個機關超收我們會有延遷表示比如說超過兩成的有幾所我們都有依照這個來參考然後辦理一間的作業那這個數字再拜託你們給我們辦公室\n244088\t262924\t會後再提供給我們好 謝謝那如果超收我們其實就會比較擔心之前也跟署長討論過下一張關於人力的部分其實也是希望幫所有願意進到矯正機構工作的專業員工跟您討論就是在人數比的部分我上次還沒有跟您討論完我想跟您請教\n263624\t289267\t所謂教化人力上次你們給我們的數字是1比138那介護人力是1比11新社跟醫事都各自其實看起來那個比例上會讓人感到有一點擔心會不會所有這些矯正機關的工作人員專業人力工作負擔過重我不是很確定所以我想要請問一下所謂教化人力在你們的定義當中它的工作內容工作樣態大概有哪些\n290598\t307098\t報告委員 教化人力 主要是教委師或一些輔導員 他們主要是辦理假釋的業務或劣勁處理分數的業務那當然從這個表看起來 我們的教化人力確實負擔蠻重的 所以我們\n308459\t337379\t針對我們的行刑累進處理在民國35年訂定有點老舊不合時宜的我們會把它作為簡化考核制度因為現行的民國幾年則分數不同打的分數每個月進幾哩都不一樣非常的繁瑣我們會把它作為簡化考核制度之後讓每個教委是在假釋辦理或是累進處理的辦理方面會比較有效率\n337899\t357004\t而且減輕他的負擔所以這個我們正在努力正在努力意思就是說你們已經在研議簡化考核的事情那現在的進度你們可不可以給我們知道一下我們原則上有在報法務部第三次報法務部因為我們會會相關的私處他們都有一些意見再回來我們再針對這個意見再來做微調\n365106\t386725\t好 那簡化這個流程之後 是不是會讓這個人數比看起來人數比會降低嗎 應該不會 我們只是調整他們的工作內容但工作比還會是 人數比還會是這樣那我比較好奇第一線的教化人員 有讓你們知道說其實假設未來就算簡化 其實工作量還是會有點太超過\n387686\t407567\t還是其實我不是很確定簡化之後包括累進主義假釋就單純化了所以對他可能原來要加班的加班的時數會就降低了是有實際的幫助所以我們簡化的目標就是希望讓他們的工作loading不要太重然後不要每個人都過度的加班\n408047\t426940\t那這個簡化的過程當中也要拜託要積極聆聽第一線工作同仁的聲音尤其是您剛剛說這些在現場第一線的教化人力他們的需求跟他們的困境他們的狀況我認為既然已經有在研議中拜託你們要聽他們的聲音是 這個我們就有聽取我們就有收集他們的意見所屬機關的意見在做處理的\n430583\t458610\t好 那上個禮拜還跟您討論到關於新設跟醫事人力喔這個部分當然是指針對受刑人的部分但是因為這個數字是整體所有的矯正機構我其實還蠻好奇那各個的矯正機構包含少角校 少官所或者是其他的矯正機構各別的人力統計數字這個你們有現行的統計數字嗎可以會後提供給我們辦公室嗎這個已經有了好 個別的 我說的是個別\n459730\t482883\t新設人力的跟議事人力我們有分開來好 那在會後再提供給我們會後可以提供好 沒問題那我們來看一下剛剛指的是受刑人的部分我們現在來看一下監所員工的協助方案因為我們都希望所有的積極的行政作為都是希望減輕現場工作人員的負擔那相關的新聞我就不再贅述我相信署長你一定知道\n483283\t493841\t我上一次也問過你心理協助方案但時間有限我現在想要積極跟您討論到底我們現在積極協助監所員工的協助方案內容大概有哪些\n494915\t521285\t所謂的員工協助方案我們員工協助方案是只要各機關的人士是在負責包括他有情緒或有被霸凌的都可以提出來那至於這個案件我們也有我們不要講個案我們不要講個案我希望知道的是所有這些歸屬於矯正署底下的所有在監索員工裡面他們的協助方案大概的樣態有哪些\n521505\t536627\t大概樣態比如說他有情緒障礙那我們人事室他願意把他的苦惱煩惱講出來那我們會看情況有必要諮商的我們會請心理師或是社工員來協助\n537788\t541890\t有一套現行的機制細節可以再提供給我們但我很好奇你們有沒有近年來的統計數字或者是他們提出來的協助方案內容因為我認為不會只有情緒的問題可能還有在職場現場裡面跟長官溝通的問題跟同仁溝通的問題工作量過多的問題超時加班的問題其實員工協助方案可以是全方面的\n561499\t590767\t那當然我知道必須要把這個機制引入監索員工協助方案確實還需要一些時間他也需要跟外面的專業機構對話甚至可能還需要衛福部的協助那具體的內容可不可以會後再提供給我們我指的是針對員工的協助員工協助方案的數據我這邊的數據是沒有看到啦那我們會後再看看有沒有這些數據我們可以再跟你們討論到底你們想要促進哪些事情\n596011\t613207\t我們去考察了城鎮我們看到那個孩子們的住宿的設防狀況真的不是太好可是我們也看到城鎮他們有在調整室內空間有相關預算跟計畫在進行不過我們其實還是普遍擔心不管是城鎮還是後續其他我們還沒有去看的\n614047\t631599\t兩所矯正學校其實孩子們的住宿品質包含所有監所住宿品質我認為這件事情有機會應該要積極的提升但是關於各個監所住宿品質狀況我們今天就沒有辦法細說但是後續我們辦公室希望可以跟矯正署做更多的討論好不好\n632580\t659103\t尤其是我們剛剛都發現了嘛因為詐騙案的事情不管是成人監所或者是矯正學校啊 少管所他們的收容人數都越來越高我覺得這個困境我們一起來面對好不好好 最後來下一張這個課程其實我上次跟您討論過了就是我們其實還是覺得這個課程有沒有真的可以發揮協助學生復歸社會的可能性那當然上次你已經講了\n659724\t674161\t有一些因為學生來來去去你們必須要routine的進行這些事情但我們真的還是認為有討論的空間我就直白的說例如說弟子規這個在一般的學校很多家長跟很多老師就已經\n676370\t693411\t認為單獨的讓學生背誦弟子規甚至讓他們非常枯燥的抄寫沒有真的可以對人的品性產生矯正的可能性那可能這些孩子在學校裡面搞不好也受過這種折磨我們現在讓他們在教校裡面還要做這個事情嗎我是先有一個問號\n694432\t721082\t那當然除非你們設計的課程內容或者是你們的方法特別有經過特別教學設計課程設計活動方案真的可以促進他們去靠近這個東西否則我們整體課程看起來還是會有點擔心啦吼那我的意思是提醒說光是在課程的部分我們就可以做更多好的設計當然我知道需要專業人力的協助需要國教組的協助我們一起往這裡努力我先把問題提出來再一次的提出來好不好\n721522\t744528\t好的 謝謝委員好 謝謝署長所以我大概今天幾個重點一個是人力的部分再來是員工協助的部分再來是腳效的住宿空間那這些相關資料不管是您剛剛說要提供給我們的我們都會再整理發公文給你們或者是後續有機會在兩個月內提供給我們嗎可以 可以 兩個月內那就這樣 這麼多議題我們一起努力好 謝謝署長 謝謝主席\n","txt":"好 謝謝主席 那有請周署長請周署長\n好署長早安署長我還是想繼續跟你談我們之前有研究過的一些題目那雖然吳宗憲朝我一直提醒我你要退休但我相信署長你一定會把我們所有委員關心的題目跟後續的署長交接對嗎是謝謝署長我要先談一下在107年的時候當時的法務部長邱太三他做了一個承諾那確實你們後續也都做到了\n他說希望可以在109年的時候達到一人一床監所零超收這個願景非常的好我們來往下看我們看你們逐年收容的這個人數我來看一下從110到111 112 123確實到13確實都沒有超收可是我比較好奇到了114年5月底這個是你們\n法務部自己的資料統計這個我們還沒有鎖死網站上就看得到到了五月底的時候已經有超額收容的問題我比較好奇這個超額收容是怎麼樣造成的我猜想會不會是因為近年來詐騙案\n很猖獗那各部會積極辦案的結果積極調查的情況下讓收容人數上升因為我們之前看少年犯有很多確實是因為詐欺詐騙我不知道在成人或是其他整個統計上是不是因為這樣\n是 報告委員確實是這個詐欺犯他上升到第一名來所以有一些人數上我們的突破六萬人我們的核定收入是60552\n那目前目前應該也是6萬出頭一點點對啦其實只有超收42個人比例也不高可是我認為如果如果真的是我剛推估的你也說確實是因為詐騙案的關係我們的收容人越來越多\n那我認為雖然各部會已經很努力打詐可是壞人比我們更用功比我們更努力他們會努力想出各式各樣的方法詐騙常常我聽到很多案例我都覺得瞠目結舌非常可怕那我們如何看待這個情況跟後續你們有沒有什麼因應的方案\n對於那個詐騙集團他普遍有不勞而獲的心態所以原則上我們會加強他的技能訓練還有相關的法治先導那可是 對不對署長我知道這是裡面教化的部分但是超收這個部分他很有可能節節必高喔 數字\n對於超收的部分我們會看它的超收比例尤其是超收超過兩成以上的我們就會積極辦理移間原則上從北部移到中南部去所以你認為如果全台灣通盤考慮我們目前還有些餘裕空間上\n我們是可以盤點哪個地方它的空間比較多的我們就把它移植到那個地方去但是因為這個表格法務部的這個表格是針對所有的收容機構 矯正機構\n的收容人數我想要拜託我們有沒有機會請你們幫我們提供一個統計數字是個別監所因為剛剛署長您自己提到可以北中南做調整所以我也就很好奇北中南東現在所有矯正機關各自的收容人數單獨個別的統計數字不用現在給我有機會可以幫我們統計嗎\n我們已經有這個比如說哪個機關超收我們會有延遷表示比如說超過兩成的有幾所我們都有依照這個來參考然後辦理一間的作業那這個數字再拜託你們給我們辦公室\n會後再提供給我們好 謝謝那如果超收我們其實就會比較擔心之前也跟署長討論過下一張關於人力的部分其實也是希望幫所有願意進到矯正機構工作的專業員工跟您討論就是在人數比的部分我上次還沒有跟您討論完我想跟您請教\n所謂教化人力上次你們給我們的數字是1比138那介護人力是1比11新社跟醫事都各自其實看起來那個比例上會讓人感到有一點擔心會不會所有這些矯正機關的工作人員專業人力工作負擔過重我不是很確定所以我想要請問一下所謂教化人力在你們的定義當中它的工作內容工作樣態大概有哪些\n報告委員 教化人力 主要是教委師或一些輔導員 他們主要是辦理假釋的業務或劣勁處理分數的業務那當然從這個表看起來 我們的教化人力確實負擔蠻重的 所以我們\n針對我們的行刑累進處理在民國35年訂定有點老舊不合時宜的我們會把它作為簡化考核制度因為現行的民國幾年則分數不同打的分數每個月進幾哩都不一樣非常的繁瑣我們會把它作為簡化考核制度之後讓每個教委是在假釋辦理或是累進處理的辦理方面會比較有效率\n而且減輕他的負擔所以這個我們正在努力正在努力意思就是說你們已經在研議簡化考核的事情那現在的進度你們可不可以給我們知道一下我們原則上有在報法務部第三次報法務部因為我們會會相關的私處他們都有一些意見再回來我們再針對這個意見再來做微調\n好 那簡化這個流程之後 是不是會讓這個人數比看起來人數比會降低嗎 應該不會 我們只是調整他們的工作內容但工作比還會是 人數比還會是這樣那我比較好奇第一線的教化人員 有讓你們知道說其實假設未來就算簡化 其實工作量還是會有點太超過\n還是其實我不是很確定簡化之後包括累進主義假釋就單純化了所以對他可能原來要加班的加班的時數會就降低了是有實際的幫助所以我們簡化的目標就是希望讓他們的工作loading不要太重然後不要每個人都過度的加班\n那這個簡化的過程當中也要拜託要積極聆聽第一線工作同仁的聲音尤其是您剛剛說這些在現場第一線的教化人力他們的需求跟他們的困境他們的狀況我認為既然已經有在研議中拜託你們要聽他們的聲音是 這個我們就有聽取我們就有收集他們的意見所屬機關的意見在做處理的\n好 那上個禮拜還跟您討論到關於新設跟醫事人力喔這個部分當然是指針對受刑人的部分但是因為這個數字是整體所有的矯正機構我其實還蠻好奇那各個的矯正機構包含少角校 少官所或者是其他的矯正機構各別的人力統計數字這個你們有現行的統計數字嗎可以會後提供給我們辦公室嗎這個已經有了好 個別的 我說的是個別\n新設人力的跟議事人力我們有分開來好 那在會後再提供給我們會後可以提供好 沒問題那我們來看一下剛剛指的是受刑人的部分我們現在來看一下監所員工的協助方案因為我們都希望所有的積極的行政作為都是希望減輕現場工作人員的負擔那相關的新聞我就不再贅述我相信署長你一定知道\n我上一次也問過你心理協助方案但時間有限我現在想要積極跟您討論到底我們現在積極協助監所員工的協助方案內容大概有哪些\n所謂的員工協助方案我們員工協助方案是只要各機關的人士是在負責包括他有情緒或有被霸凌的都可以提出來那至於這個案件我們也有我們不要講個案我們不要講個案我希望知道的是所有這些歸屬於矯正署底下的所有在監索員工裡面他們的協助方案大概的樣態有哪些\n大概樣態比如說他有情緒障礙那我們人事室他願意把他的苦惱煩惱講出來那我們會看情況有必要諮商的我們會請心理師或是社工員來協助\n有一套現行的機制細節可以再提供給我們但我很好奇你們有沒有近年來的統計數字或者是他們提出來的協助方案內容因為我認為不會只有情緒的問題可能還有在職場現場裡面跟長官溝通的問題跟同仁溝通的問題工作量過多的問題超時加班的問題其實員工協助方案可以是全方面的\n那當然我知道必須要把這個機制引入監索員工協助方案確實還需要一些時間他也需要跟外面的專業機構對話甚至可能還需要衛福部的協助那具體的內容可不可以會後再提供給我們我指的是針對員工的協助員工協助方案的數據我這邊的數據是沒有看到啦那我們會後再看看有沒有這些數據我們可以再跟你們討論到底你們想要促進哪些事情\n我們去考察了城鎮我們看到那個孩子們的住宿的設防狀況真的不是太好可是我們也看到城鎮他們有在調整室內空間有相關預算跟計畫在進行不過我們其實還是普遍擔心不管是城鎮還是後續其他我們還沒有去看的\n兩所矯正學校其實孩子們的住宿品質包含所有監所住宿品質我認為這件事情有機會應該要積極的提升但是關於各個監所住宿品質狀況我們今天就沒有辦法細說但是後續我們辦公室希望可以跟矯正署做更多的討論好不好\n尤其是我們剛剛都發現了嘛因為詐騙案的事情不管是成人監所或者是矯正學校啊 少管所他們的收容人數都越來越高我覺得這個困境我們一起來面對好不好好 最後來下一張這個課程其實我上次跟您討論過了就是我們其實還是覺得這個課程有沒有真的可以發揮協助學生復歸社會的可能性那當然上次你已經講了\n有一些因為學生來來去去你們必須要routine的進行這些事情但我們真的還是認為有討論的空間我就直白的說例如說弟子規這個在一般的學校很多家長跟很多老師就已經\n認為單獨的讓學生背誦弟子規甚至讓他們非常枯燥的抄寫沒有真的可以對人的品性產生矯正的可能性那可能這些孩子在學校裡面搞不好也受過這種折磨我們現在讓他們在教校裡面還要做這個事情嗎我是先有一個問號\n那當然除非你們設計的課程內容或者是你們的方法特別有經過特別教學設計課程設計活動方案真的可以促進他們去靠近這個東西否則我們整體課程看起來還是會有點擔心啦吼那我的意思是提醒說光是在課程的部分我們就可以做更多好的設計當然我知道需要專業人力的協助需要國教組的協助我們一起往這裡努力我先把問題提出來再一次的提出來好不好\n好的 謝謝委員好 謝謝署長所以我大概今天幾個重點一個是人力的部分再來是員工協助的部分再來是腳效的住宿空間那這些相關資料不管是您剛剛說要提供給我們的我們都會再整理發公文給你們或者是後續有機會在兩個月內提供給我們嗎可以 可以 兩個月內那就這樣 這麼多議題我們一起努力好 謝謝署長 謝謝主席\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:09.700 --> 00:12.703\n好謝謝主席那有請周署長請周署長\n\n00:19.844 --> 00:42.928\n好署長早安署長我還是想繼續跟你談我們之前有研究過的一些題目那雖然吳宗憲朝我一直提醒我你要退休但我相信署長你一定會把我們所有委員關心的題目跟後續的署長交接對嗎是謝謝署長我要先談一下在107年的時候當時的法務部長邱太三他做了一個承諾那確實你們後續也都做到了\n\n00:43.228 --> 01:07.338\n他說希望可以在109年的時候達到一人一床監所零超收這個願景非常的好我們來往下看我們看你們逐年收容的這個人數我來看一下從110到111112123確實到13確實都沒有超收可是我比較好奇到了114年5月底這個是你們\n\n01:08.138 --> 01:23.436\n法務部自己的資料統計這個我們還沒有鎖死網站上就看得到到了五月底的時候已經有超額收容的問題我比較好奇這個超額收容是怎麼樣造成的我猜想會不會是因為近年來詐騙案\n\n01:25.498 --> 01:39.445\n很猖獗那各部會積極辦案的結果積極調查的情況下讓收容人數上升因為我們之前看少年犯有很多確實是因為詐欺詐騙我不知道在成人或是其他整個統計上是不是因為這樣\n\n01:40.931 --> 01:55.157\n是報告委員確實是這個詐欺犯他上升到第一名來所以有一些人數上我們的突破六萬人我們的核定收入是60552\n\n01:57.661 --> 02:14.217\n那目前目前應該也是6萬出頭一點點對啦其實只有超收42個人比例也不高可是我認為如果如果真的是我剛推估的你也說確實是因為詐騙案的關係我們的收容人越來越多\n\n02:14.597 --> 02:30.430\n那我認為雖然各部會已經很努力打詐可是壞人比我們更用功比我們更努力他們會努力想出各式各樣的方法詐騙常常我聽到很多案例我都覺得瞠目結舌非常可怕那我們如何看待這個情況跟後續你們有沒有什麼因應的方案\n\n02:31.889 --> 02:49.669\n對於那個詐騙集團他普遍有不勞而獲的心態所以原則上我們會加強他的技能訓練還有相關的法治先導那可是對不對署長我知道這是裡面教化的部分但是超收這個部分他很有可能節節必高喔數字\n\n02:51.397 --> 03:08.753\n對於超收的部分我們會看它的超收比例尤其是超收超過兩成以上的我們就會積極辦理移間原則上從北部移到中南部去所以你認為如果全台灣通盤考慮我們目前還有些餘裕空間上\n\n03:09.764 --> 03:14.686\n我們是可以盤點哪個地方它的空間比較多的我們就把它移植到那個地方去但是因為這個表格法務部的這個表格是針對所有的收容機構矯正機構\n\n03:26.690 --> 03:44.316\n的收容人數我想要拜託我們有沒有機會請你們幫我們提供一個統計數字是個別監所因為剛剛署長您自己提到可以北中南做調整所以我也就很好奇北中南東現在所有矯正機關各自的收容人數單獨個別的統計數字不用現在給我有機會可以幫我們統計嗎\n\n03:47.637 --> 04:01.126\n我們已經有這個比如說哪個機關超收我們會有延遷表示比如說超過兩成的有幾所我們都有依照這個來參考然後辦理一間的作業那這個數字再拜託你們給我們辦公室\n\n04:04.088 --> 04:22.924\n會後再提供給我們好謝謝那如果超收我們其實就會比較擔心之前也跟署長討論過下一張關於人力的部分其實也是希望幫所有願意進到矯正機構工作的專業員工跟您討論就是在人數比的部分我上次還沒有跟您討論完我想跟您請教\n\n04:23.624 --> 04:49.267\n所謂教化人力上次你們給我們的數字是1比138那介護人力是1比11新社跟醫事都各自其實看起來那個比例上會讓人感到有一點擔心會不會所有這些矯正機關的工作人員專業人力工作負擔過重我不是很確定所以我想要請問一下所謂教化人力在你們的定義當中它的工作內容工作樣態大概有哪些\n\n04:50.598 --> 05:07.098\n報告委員教化人力主要是教委師或一些輔導員他們主要是辦理假釋的業務或劣勁處理分數的業務那當然從這個表看起來我們的教化人力確實負擔蠻重的所以我們\n\n05:08.459 --> 05:37.379\n針對我們的行刑累進處理在民國35年訂定有點老舊不合時宜的我們會把它作為簡化考核制度因為現行的民國幾年則分數不同打的分數每個月進幾哩都不一樣非常的繁瑣我們會把它作為簡化考核制度之後讓每個教委是在假釋辦理或是累進處理的辦理方面會比較有效率\n\n05:37.899 --> 05:57.004\n而且減輕他的負擔所以這個我們正在努力正在努力意思就是說你們已經在研議簡化考核的事情那現在的進度你們可不可以給我們知道一下我們原則上有在報法務部第三次報法務部因為我們會會相關的私處他們都有一些意見再回來我們再針對這個意見再來做微調\n\n06:05.106 --> 06:26.725\n好那簡化這個流程之後是不是會讓這個人數比看起來人數比會降低嗎應該不會我們只是調整他們的工作內容但工作比還會是人數比還會是這樣那我比較好奇第一線的教化人員有讓你們知道說其實假設未來就算簡化其實工作量還是會有點太超過\n\n06:27.686 --> 06:47.567\n還是其實我不是很確定簡化之後包括累進主義假釋就單純化了所以對他可能原來要加班的加班的時數會就降低了是有實際的幫助所以我們簡化的目標就是希望讓他們的工作loading不要太重然後不要每個人都過度的加班\n\n06:48.047 --> 07:06.940\n那這個簡化的過程當中也要拜託要積極聆聽第一線工作同仁的聲音尤其是您剛剛說這些在現場第一線的教化人力他們的需求跟他們的困境他們的狀況我認為既然已經有在研議中拜託你們要聽他們的聲音是這個我們就有聽取我們就有收集他們的意見所屬機關的意見在做處理的\n\n07:10.583 --> 07:38.610\n好那上個禮拜還跟您討論到關於新設跟醫事人力喔這個部分當然是指針對受刑人的部分但是因為這個數字是整體所有的矯正機構我其實還蠻好奇那各個的矯正機構包含少角校少官所或者是其他的矯正機構各別的人力統計數字這個你們有現行的統計數字嗎可以會後提供給我們辦公室嗎這個已經有了好個別的我說的是個別\n\n07:39.730 --> 08:02.883\n新設人力的跟議事人力我們有分開來好那在會後再提供給我們會後可以提供好沒問題那我們來看一下剛剛指的是受刑人的部分我們現在來看一下監所員工的協助方案因為我們都希望所有的積極的行政作為都是希望減輕現場工作人員的負擔那相關的新聞我就不再贅述我相信署長你一定知道\n\n08:03.283 --> 08:13.841\n我上一次也問過你心理協助方案但時間有限我現在想要積極跟您討論到底我們現在積極協助監所員工的協助方案內容大概有哪些\n\n08:14.915 --> 08:41.285\n所謂的員工協助方案我們員工協助方案是只要各機關的人士是在負責包括他有情緒或有被霸凌的都可以提出來那至於這個案件我們也有我們不要講個案我們不要講個案我希望知道的是所有這些歸屬於矯正署底下的所有在監索員工裡面他們的協助方案大概的樣態有哪些\n\n08:41.505 --> 08:56.627\n大概樣態比如說他有情緒障礙那我們人事室他願意把他的苦惱煩惱講出來那我們會看情況有必要諮商的我們會請心理師或是社工員來協助\n\n08:57.788 --> 09:01.890\n有一套現行的機制細節可以再提供給我們但我很好奇你們有沒有近年來的統計數字或者是他們提出來的協助方案內容因為我認為不會只有情緒的問題可能還有在職場現場裡面跟長官溝通的問題跟同仁溝通的問題工作量過多的問題超時加班的問題其實員工協助方案可以是全方面的\n\n09:21.499 --> 09:50.767\n那當然我知道必須要把這個機制引入監索員工協助方案確實還需要一些時間他也需要跟外面的專業機構對話甚至可能還需要衛福部的協助那具體的內容可不可以會後再提供給我們我指的是針對員工的協助員工協助方案的數據我這邊的數據是沒有看到啦那我們會後再看看有沒有這些數據我們可以再跟你們討論到底你們想要促進哪些事情\n\n09:56.011 --> 10:13.207\n我們去考察了城鎮我們看到那個孩子們的住宿的設防狀況真的不是太好可是我們也看到城鎮他們有在調整室內空間有相關預算跟計畫在進行不過我們其實還是普遍擔心不管是城鎮還是後續其他我們還沒有去看的\n\n10:14.047 --> 10:31.599\n兩所矯正學校其實孩子們的住宿品質包含所有監所住宿品質我認為這件事情有機會應該要積極的提升但是關於各個監所住宿品質狀況我們今天就沒有辦法細說但是後續我們辦公室希望可以跟矯正署做更多的討論好不好\n\n10:32.580 --> 10:59.103\n尤其是我們剛剛都發現了嘛因為詐騙案的事情不管是成人監所或者是矯正學校啊少管所他們的收容人數都越來越高我覺得這個困境我們一起來面對好不好好最後來下一張這個課程其實我上次跟您討論過了就是我們其實還是覺得這個課程有沒有真的可以發揮協助學生復歸社會的可能性那當然上次你已經講了\n\n10:59.724 --> 11:14.161\n有一些因為學生來來去去你們必須要routine的進行這些事情但我們真的還是認為有討論的空間我就直白的說例如說弟子規這個在一般的學校很多家長跟很多老師就已經\n\n11:16.370 --> 11:33.411\n認為單獨的讓學生背誦弟子規甚至讓他們非常枯燥的抄寫沒有真的可以對人的品性產生矯正的可能性那可能這些孩子在學校裡面搞不好也受過這種折磨我們現在讓他們在教校裡面還要做這個事情嗎我是先有一個問號\n\n11:34.432 --> 12:01.082\n那當然除非你們設計的課程內容或者是你們的方法特別有經過特別教學設計課程設計活動方案真的可以促進他們去靠近這個東西否則我們整體課程看起來還是會有點擔心啦吼那我的意思是提醒說光是在課程的部分我們就可以做更多好的設計當然我知道需要專業人力的協助需要國教組的協助我們一起往這裡努力我先把問題提出來再一次的提出來好不好\n\n12:01.522 --> 12:24.528\n好的謝謝委員好謝謝署長所以我大概今天幾個重點一個是人力的部分再來是員工協助的部分再來是腳效的住宿空間那這些相關資料不管是您剛剛說要提供給我們的我們都會再整理發公文給你們或者是後續有機會在兩個月內提供給我們嗎可以可以兩個月內那就這樣這麼多議題我們一起努力好謝謝署長謝謝主席\n\n","segments":[{"start":9.7,"end":12.703,"text":"好 謝謝主席 那有請周署長請周署長"},{"start":19.844,"end":42.928,"text":"好署長早安署長我還是想繼續跟你談我們之前有研究過的一些題目那雖然吳宗憲朝我一直提醒我你要退休但我相信署長你一定會把我們所有委員關心的題目跟後續的署長交接對嗎是謝謝署長我要先談一下在107年的時候當時的法務部長邱太三他做了一個承諾那確實你們後續也都做到了"},{"start":43.228,"end":67.338,"text":"他說希望可以在109年的時候達到一人一床監所零超收這個願景非常的好我們來往下看我們看你們逐年收容的這個人數我來看一下從110到111 112 123確實到13確實都沒有超收可是我比較好奇到了114年5月底這個是你們"},{"start":68.138,"end":83.436,"text":"法務部自己的資料統計這個我們還沒有鎖死網站上就看得到到了五月底的時候已經有超額收容的問題我比較好奇這個超額收容是怎麼樣造成的我猜想會不會是因為近年來詐騙案"},{"start":85.498,"end":99.445,"text":"很猖獗那各部會積極辦案的結果積極調查的情況下讓收容人數上升因為我們之前看少年犯有很多確實是因為詐欺詐騙我不知道在成人或是其他整個統計上是不是因為這樣"},{"start":100.931,"end":115.157,"text":"是 報告委員確實是這個詐欺犯他上升到第一名來所以有一些人數上我們的突破六萬人我們的核定收入是60552"},{"start":117.661,"end":134.217,"text":"那目前目前應該也是6萬出頭一點點對啦其實只有超收42個人比例也不高可是我認為如果如果真的是我剛推估的你也說確實是因為詐騙案的關係我們的收容人越來越多"},{"start":134.597,"end":150.43,"text":"那我認為雖然各部會已經很努力打詐可是壞人比我們更用功比我們更努力他們會努力想出各式各樣的方法詐騙常常我聽到很多案例我都覺得瞠目結舌非常可怕那我們如何看待這個情況跟後續你們有沒有什麼因應的方案"},{"start":151.889,"end":169.669,"text":"對於那個詐騙集團他普遍有不勞而獲的心態所以原則上我們會加強他的技能訓練還有相關的法治先導那可是 對不對署長我知道這是裡面教化的部分但是超收這個部分他很有可能節節必高喔 數字"},{"start":171.397,"end":188.753,"text":"對於超收的部分我們會看它的超收比例尤其是超收超過兩成以上的我們就會積極辦理移間原則上從北部移到中南部去所以你認為如果全台灣通盤考慮我們目前還有些餘裕空間上"},{"start":189.764,"end":194.686,"text":"我們是可以盤點哪個地方它的空間比較多的我們就把它移植到那個地方去但是因為這個表格法務部的這個表格是針對所有的收容機構 矯正機構"},{"start":206.69,"end":224.316,"text":"的收容人數我想要拜託我們有沒有機會請你們幫我們提供一個統計數字是個別監所因為剛剛署長您自己提到可以北中南做調整所以我也就很好奇北中南東現在所有矯正機關各自的收容人數單獨個別的統計數字不用現在給我有機會可以幫我們統計嗎"},{"start":227.637,"end":241.126,"text":"我們已經有這個比如說哪個機關超收我們會有延遷表示比如說超過兩成的有幾所我們都有依照這個來參考然後辦理一間的作業那這個數字再拜託你們給我們辦公室"},{"start":244.088,"end":262.924,"text":"會後再提供給我們好 謝謝那如果超收我們其實就會比較擔心之前也跟署長討論過下一張關於人力的部分其實也是希望幫所有願意進到矯正機構工作的專業員工跟您討論就是在人數比的部分我上次還沒有跟您討論完我想跟您請教"},{"start":263.624,"end":289.267,"text":"所謂教化人力上次你們給我們的數字是1比138那介護人力是1比11新社跟醫事都各自其實看起來那個比例上會讓人感到有一點擔心會不會所有這些矯正機關的工作人員專業人力工作負擔過重我不是很確定所以我想要請問一下所謂教化人力在你們的定義當中它的工作內容工作樣態大概有哪些"},{"start":290.598,"end":307.098,"text":"報告委員 教化人力 主要是教委師或一些輔導員 他們主要是辦理假釋的業務或劣勁處理分數的業務那當然從這個表看起來 我們的教化人力確實負擔蠻重的 所以我們"},{"start":308.459,"end":337.379,"text":"針對我們的行刑累進處理在民國35年訂定有點老舊不合時宜的我們會把它作為簡化考核制度因為現行的民國幾年則分數不同打的分數每個月進幾哩都不一樣非常的繁瑣我們會把它作為簡化考核制度之後讓每個教委是在假釋辦理或是累進處理的辦理方面會比較有效率"},{"start":337.899,"end":357.004,"text":"而且減輕他的負擔所以這個我們正在努力正在努力意思就是說你們已經在研議簡化考核的事情那現在的進度你們可不可以給我們知道一下我們原則上有在報法務部第三次報法務部因為我們會會相關的私處他們都有一些意見再回來我們再針對這個意見再來做微調"},{"start":365.106,"end":386.725,"text":"好 那簡化這個流程之後 是不是會讓這個人數比看起來人數比會降低嗎 應該不會 我們只是調整他們的工作內容但工作比還會是 人數比還會是這樣那我比較好奇第一線的教化人員 有讓你們知道說其實假設未來就算簡化 其實工作量還是會有點太超過"},{"start":387.686,"end":407.567,"text":"還是其實我不是很確定簡化之後包括累進主義假釋就單純化了所以對他可能原來要加班的加班的時數會就降低了是有實際的幫助所以我們簡化的目標就是希望讓他們的工作loading不要太重然後不要每個人都過度的加班"},{"start":408.047,"end":426.94,"text":"那這個簡化的過程當中也要拜託要積極聆聽第一線工作同仁的聲音尤其是您剛剛說這些在現場第一線的教化人力他們的需求跟他們的困境他們的狀況我認為既然已經有在研議中拜託你們要聽他們的聲音是 這個我們就有聽取我們就有收集他們的意見所屬機關的意見在做處理的"},{"start":430.583,"end":458.61,"text":"好 那上個禮拜還跟您討論到關於新設跟醫事人力喔這個部分當然是指針對受刑人的部分但是因為這個數字是整體所有的矯正機構我其實還蠻好奇那各個的矯正機構包含少角校 少官所或者是其他的矯正機構各別的人力統計數字這個你們有現行的統計數字嗎可以會後提供給我們辦公室嗎這個已經有了好 個別的 我說的是個別"},{"start":459.73,"end":482.883,"text":"新設人力的跟議事人力我們有分開來好 那在會後再提供給我們會後可以提供好 沒問題那我們來看一下剛剛指的是受刑人的部分我們現在來看一下監所員工的協助方案因為我們都希望所有的積極的行政作為都是希望減輕現場工作人員的負擔那相關的新聞我就不再贅述我相信署長你一定知道"},{"start":483.283,"end":493.841,"text":"我上一次也問過你心理協助方案但時間有限我現在想要積極跟您討論到底我們現在積極協助監所員工的協助方案內容大概有哪些"},{"start":494.915,"end":521.285,"text":"所謂的員工協助方案我們員工協助方案是只要各機關的人士是在負責包括他有情緒或有被霸凌的都可以提出來那至於這個案件我們也有我們不要講個案我們不要講個案我希望知道的是所有這些歸屬於矯正署底下的所有在監索員工裡面他們的協助方案大概的樣態有哪些"},{"start":521.505,"end":536.627,"text":"大概樣態比如說他有情緒障礙那我們人事室他願意把他的苦惱煩惱講出來那我們會看情況有必要諮商的我們會請心理師或是社工員來協助"},{"start":537.788,"end":541.89,"text":"有一套現行的機制細節可以再提供給我們但我很好奇你們有沒有近年來的統計數字或者是他們提出來的協助方案內容因為我認為不會只有情緒的問題可能還有在職場現場裡面跟長官溝通的問題跟同仁溝通的問題工作量過多的問題超時加班的問題其實員工協助方案可以是全方面的"},{"start":561.499,"end":590.767,"text":"那當然我知道必須要把這個機制引入監索員工協助方案確實還需要一些時間他也需要跟外面的專業機構對話甚至可能還需要衛福部的協助那具體的內容可不可以會後再提供給我們我指的是針對員工的協助員工協助方案的數據我這邊的數據是沒有看到啦那我們會後再看看有沒有這些數據我們可以再跟你們討論到底你們想要促進哪些事情"},{"start":596.011,"end":613.207,"text":"我們去考察了城鎮我們看到那個孩子們的住宿的設防狀況真的不是太好可是我們也看到城鎮他們有在調整室內空間有相關預算跟計畫在進行不過我們其實還是普遍擔心不管是城鎮還是後續其他我們還沒有去看的"},{"start":614.047,"end":631.599,"text":"兩所矯正學校其實孩子們的住宿品質包含所有監所住宿品質我認為這件事情有機會應該要積極的提升但是關於各個監所住宿品質狀況我們今天就沒有辦法細說但是後續我們辦公室希望可以跟矯正署做更多的討論好不好"},{"start":632.58,"end":659.103,"text":"尤其是我們剛剛都發現了嘛因為詐騙案的事情不管是成人監所或者是矯正學校啊 少管所他們的收容人數都越來越高我覺得這個困境我們一起來面對好不好好 最後來下一張這個課程其實我上次跟您討論過了就是我們其實還是覺得這個課程有沒有真的可以發揮協助學生復歸社會的可能性那當然上次你已經講了"},{"start":659.724,"end":674.161,"text":"有一些因為學生來來去去你們必須要routine的進行這些事情但我們真的還是認為有討論的空間我就直白的說例如說弟子規這個在一般的學校很多家長跟很多老師就已經"},{"start":676.37,"end":693.411,"text":"認為單獨的讓學生背誦弟子規甚至讓他們非常枯燥的抄寫沒有真的可以對人的品性產生矯正的可能性那可能這些孩子在學校裡面搞不好也受過這種折磨我們現在讓他們在教校裡面還要做這個事情嗎我是先有一個問號"},{"start":694.432,"end":721.082,"text":"那當然除非你們設計的課程內容或者是你們的方法特別有經過特別教學設計課程設計活動方案真的可以促進他們去靠近這個東西否則我們整體課程看起來還是會有點擔心啦吼那我的意思是提醒說光是在課程的部分我們就可以做更多好的設計當然我知道需要專業人力的協助需要國教組的協助我們一起往這裡努力我先把問題提出來再一次的提出來好不好"},{"start":721.522,"end":744.528,"text":"好的 謝謝委員好 謝謝署長所以我大概今天幾個重點一個是人力的部分再來是員工協助的部分再來是腳效的住宿空間那這些相關資料不管是您剛剛說要提供給我們的我們都會再整理發公文給你們或者是後續有機會在兩個月內提供給我們嗎可以 可以 兩個月內那就這樣 這麼多議題我們一起努力好 謝謝署長 謝謝主席"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":522,"blocks":[["陳委員培瑜：（10時3分）謝謝主席，有請周署長。"],["主席：請周署長。"],["周署長輝煌：委員好。"],["陳委員培瑜：署長早安。署長，我還是想繼續跟你談我們之前研究過的一些題目，雖然吳宗憲召委一直提醒我，他說你要退休了，但我相信署長一定會把所有委員關心的題目跟後續的署長交接，對嗎？"],["周署長輝煌：是的。"],["陳委員培瑜：好，謝謝署長。我要先談一下，在107年的時候，當時的法務部長邱太三做了一個承諾，確實你們後續也都做到了，他說希望可以在109年達到一人一床，監所零超收，這個願景非常的好。我們往下看你們逐年收容的人數，從110年到111年、112年、113年確實都沒有超收，可是我比較好奇，到了114年5月底，這個是你們法務部的資料統計，我們還沒有針對這個索資，網站上就看得到了，5月底時已經有超額收容的問題，我比較好奇這個超額收容是怎麼造成的？我猜想會不會是因為近年來詐騙案很猖獗，各部會積極辦案的結果、積極調查的情況下，讓收容人數上升，因為我們之前看少年犯有很多確實是因為詐欺、詐騙，我不知道在成人或是其他整個統計上是不是因為這樣？"],["周署長輝煌：報告委員，確實詐欺犯上升到第一名，所以在人數上我們突破6萬人，我們的核定收容額是6萬552人，目前應該也是6萬出頭一點點。"],["陳委員培瑜：對啦，其實只有超收42人，比例也不高，可是我認為，如果真的是我剛剛推估的，你也說確實是因為詐騙案的關係，我們的收容人越來越多，那我認為雖然各部會已經很努力打詐，可是壞人比我們更用功、比我們更努力，他們會努力想出各式各樣的方法來詐騙，我常常聽到很多案例都覺得瞠目結舌、非常可怕，我們如何看待這個情況？後續你們有沒有什麼因應方案？"],["周署長輝煌：對於詐騙集團普遍有不勞而獲的心態，所以原則上我們會加強他的技能訓練還有相關的法制宣導。"],["陳委員培瑜：對、對，署長，我知道這是裡面教化的部分，但是超收這個部分的數字很有可能節節升高喔！"],["周署長輝煌：對於超收的部分，我們會看它的超收比例，尤其是超收超過二成以上的，我們就會積極辦理移監，原則上是從北部移到中、南部去。"],["陳委員培瑜：所以你認為如果全臺灣通盤考慮，在空間上我們目前還有些餘裕，對嗎？"],["周署長輝煌：我們是可以盤點哪個地方的空間比較多，我們就把他移監到那個地方去。"],["陳委員培瑜：好，但是因為法務部的這個表格是針對所有矯正機構的收容人數，我想要拜託，有沒有機會請你們幫我們提供一個統計數字是個別監所的部分？因為剛剛署長您自己提到可以北、中、南做調整，所以我也就很好奇北、中、南、東，現在所有矯正機關各自的收容人數、單獨個別的統計數字，不用現在給我，有機會可以幫我們統計嗎？"],["周署長輝煌：我們已經有比如說哪個機關超收，我們會有圓圈表示，比如說超過二成的有幾所，我們都有依照這個來參考，然後辦理移監的作業。"],["陳委員培瑜：好，這個數字再拜託你們給我們辦公室。"],["周署長輝煌：可以，沒問題。"],["陳委員培瑜：會後再提供給我們，謝謝。如果超收，我們就會比較擔心，之前也跟署長討論過關於人力的部分，其實也是希望幫所有願意進到矯正機構工作的專業員工來跟您討論，就是在人數比的部分，我上次還沒有跟您討論完，我想跟您請教，所謂教化人力，上次你們給我們的數字是1比138；戒護人力是1比11，而心社跟醫事人力，看起來那個比例會讓人感到有一點擔心，會不會所有這些矯正機關的工作人員、專業人力的工作負擔過重？我不是很確定，所以我想要請問一下，所謂教化人力，在你們的定義當中，他的工作內容、工作樣態大概有哪些？"],["周署長輝煌：報告委員，教化人力主要是教誨師或一些輔導員，他們主要是辦理假釋的業務或累進處遇分數的業務，當然從這個表看起來，我們的教化人力確實負擔滿重的，所以針對我們的行刑累進處遇條例在民國35年訂定，有點老舊、不合時宜的，我們會把它作為簡化考核制度，因為現行的……民國幾年……責任分數不同……打的分數每個月進級都不一樣，非常的繁瑣，我們會把它作為簡化考核制度之後，讓每個教誨師在辦理假釋或累進處遇的方面會比較有效率，而且可以減輕他的負擔，這個部分我們正在努力、積極辦理中。"],["陳委員培瑜：「正在努力」的意思就是說，你們已經在研議簡化考核的事情？"],["周署長輝煌：是。"],["陳委員培瑜：你們可不可以讓我們知道一下現在的進度？"],["周署長輝煌：我們原則上有在報法務部，第三次報法務部，因為我們會會相關的司處，他們都有一些意見再回來，我們會針對這個意見再做微調，是第三次了。"],["陳委員培瑜：好，簡化這個流程之後，是不是會讓這個人數比看起來……人數比會降低嗎？應該不會，我們只是調整他們的工作內容。"],["周署長輝煌：對。"],["陳委員培瑜：但人數比還會是這樣。那我比較好奇第一線的教化人員有讓你們知道說，假設未來就算簡化，其實工作量還是會有點太超過？還是其實……我不是很確定……"],["周署長輝煌：簡化之後，包括累進處遇、假釋就單純化了，所以對他來說，可能原來要加班的，加班的時數就會降低了，是有實際的幫助。"],["陳委員培瑜：所以我們簡化的目標就是希望讓他們工作loading不要太重，然後不要每個人都過度的加班，這個簡化的過程當中，也要拜託積極聆聽第一線工作同仁的聲音，尤其是您剛剛說這些在現場第一線的教化人力，他們的需求、他們的困境、他們的狀況，我認為既然已經有在研議中，拜託你們要聽他們的聲音，我們不確定你們有沒有蒐集他們的意見。"],["周署長輝煌：是，我們都有聽取所屬機關的意見再做處理。"],["陳委員培瑜：好。上個禮拜還跟您討論到關於心社跟醫事人力，這個部分當然是只針對受刑人的部分，但是因為這個數字是整體所有的矯正機構，我其實還滿好奇各個矯正機構，包含少矯校、少管所或者是其他矯正機構個別的人力統計數字，這個你們有現行的統計數字嗎？可以會後提供給我們辦公室嗎？"],["周署長輝煌：這個已經有了。"],["陳委員培瑜：好，個別的，我說的是個別，因為這一張……"],["周署長輝煌：心社人力跟醫事人力我們有分開來。"],["陳委員培瑜：好，會後再提供給我們。"],["周署長輝煌：會後可以提供。"],["陳委員培瑜：好，沒問題。我們來看一下，剛剛指的是受刑人的部分，我們現在來看一下監所員工的協助方案，因為我們所有積極的行政作為都是希望減輕現場工作人員的負擔，相關的新聞我就不再贅述，我相信署長一定知道。我上一次也問過你心理協助方案，但時間有限，我現在想要積極跟你討論，到底我們現在積極協助監所員工的協助方案內容大概有哪些？所謂的員工協助方案……"],["周署長輝煌：我們的員工協助方案是各機關的人事室在負責，包括他有情緒或有被霸凌的情形都可以提出來，至於這個案件，我們也有調查過……"],["陳委員培瑜：我們不要講個案，我希望知道的是，所有這些歸屬於矯正署底下的所有監所員工裡面，他們的協助方案大概的樣態有哪些？"],["周署長輝煌：大概的樣態，比如說他有情緒障礙，那我們人事室……如果他願意把他的苦惱、煩惱講出來，我們會看情況，有必要諮商的，我們會請心理師或社工員來協助，我們有心社人力。"],["陳委員培瑜：所以有一套現行的機制？"],["周署長輝煌：是的。"],["陳委員培瑜：那細節可以再提供給我們，但我很好奇你們有沒有近年來的統計數字，或者是他們提出來的協助方案內容？因為我認為不會只有情緒的問題，可能還有在職場現場裡面跟長官溝通的問題、跟同仁溝通的問題、工作量過多的問題、超時加班的問題，其實員工協助方案可以是全方面的，當然我知道把這個機制引入監所員工協助方案確實還需要一些時間，也需要跟外面的專業機構對話，甚至可能還需要衛福部的協助，具體內容可不可以會後再提供給我們？我指的是針對員工協助。"],["周署長輝煌：員工協助方案的數據，我這邊是沒有看到這個數據。"],["陳委員培瑜：好，沒關係。"],["周署長輝煌：我們會後再看看有沒有這些數據，我們再來……"],["陳委員培瑜：我們可以再跟你們討論，到底你們想要促進哪些事情來協助監所員工，好不好？"],["周署長輝煌：是。"],["陳委員培瑜：好，謝謝署長。最後一個，我們去考察了誠正國中，我們看到孩子們住宿的舍房狀況真的不是太好，可是我們也看到誠正有在調整室內空間，有相關預算跟計畫在進行，不過，我們其實還是普遍擔心，不管是誠正還是後續其他我們還沒有去看的兩所矯正學校，其實孩子們的住宿品質，包含所有監所的住宿品質，我認為這件事情有機會應該要積極地提升。關於各個監所住宿品質狀況，我們今天就沒有辦法細說，但是後續我們辦公室希望可以跟矯正署做更多的討論，好不好？"],["周署長輝煌：好的。"],["陳委員培瑜：尤其是我們剛剛都發現了，因為詐騙案的事情，不管是成人監所或者是矯正學校、少管所，它們的收容人數都越來越高，這個困境我們一起來面對好不好？"],["周署長輝煌：好的，謝謝委員。"],["陳委員培瑜：最後，這個課程其實我上次跟您討論過了，我們還是覺得這個課程有沒有真的可以發揮協助學生復歸社會的可能性？當然上次你已經講了，有一些因為學生來來去去，你們必須要routine進行這些事情，但我們真的還是認為有討論的空間。我就直白地說，例如弟子規，這個在一般的學校，很多家長、很多老師就已經認為單獨的讓學生背誦弟子規，甚至讓他們非常枯燥地抄寫，沒有真的可以對人的品性產生矯正可能性，這些孩子在學校裡面搞不好也受過這種折磨，現在讓他們在矯校裡面還要做這個事情嗎？我是先有一個問號，當然除非你們設計的課程內容或者是你們的方法有特別經過課程設計活動方案，真的可以促進他們去靠近這個東西，否則我們整體課程看起來還是會讓人有點擔心。我的意思是提醒說光是在課程的部分就可以做更多好的設計，當然我知道需要專業人力的協助、需要國教署的協助，我們一起往這裡努力，我先把問題再次提出來，好不好？"],["周署長輝煌：好的，謝謝委員。"],["陳委員培瑜：謝謝署長。所以我今天大概幾個重點，一個是人力的部分；再來是員工協助的部分；再來是矯校的住宿空間，這些相關資料，不管是您剛剛說要提供給我們的，我們都會再整理發公文給你們，或者是後續有機會在兩個月內提供給我們嗎？"],["周署長輝煌：可以，兩個月內。"],["陳委員培瑜：就這樣，這麼多議題我們一起努力。謝謝署長、謝謝主席。"],["周署長輝煌：謝謝委員。"],["主席：謝謝陳培瑜委員。你看我們司法及法制委員會，尤其我在當召委，一直排這麼多的考察其實是用心良苦，司法及法制委員會裡面過度的政治攻防，所以真正要去發揮監督，真的要實地去看。你看每一次議題提出來也都是督促我們行政部門，讓立法院推你們一把，來做一個督促的話，這個是好事，也希望行政部門能夠加把勁。","現在請最帥的羅智強委員來質詢。我稱讚他一下，等一下他會對你們比較好，沒騙你們。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":230,"meet_id":"委員會-11-3-36-21","speakers":["莊瑞雄","王義川","黃國昌","林倩綺","陳培瑜","羅智強","沈發惠","吳思瑤","翁曉玲","王鴻薇","吳宗憲","楊瓊瓔","蘇清泉"],"page_start":173,"meetingDate":["2025-06-23"],"gazette_id":"1146201","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1146201_00010"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期司法及法制委員會第21次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請法務部部長、法務部矯正署署長、司法院及衛生福利部就「現行獄政與受刑人處遇機制之制\n度檢討」進行專題報告，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1146201_00011"}}}