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\"start\": 756.827, \"end\": 756.987, \"score\": 0.897}, {\"word\": \"速\", \"start\": 756.987, \"end\": 757.308, \"score\": 0.773}, {\"word\": \"進\"}, {\"word\": \"行\", \"start\": 757.308, \"end\": 757.648, \"score\": 0.906}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 757.648, \"end\": 757.668, \"score\": 0.11}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"鳳\"}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 761.358, \"end\": 761.378, \"score\": 0.282}, {\"word\": \"員\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:08,322 --> 00:00:14,715\n謝謝主席我想要先請交通部林市長請交通部林市長市長\n\n2\n00:00:20,350 --> 00:00:47,291\n早我想要知道目前交通部你演繹限制高齡長者上路但是然後希望他們可以轉成大眾運輸系統我也看到今天也看到交通部對於大眾運輸系統達成的補貼那但是我想要了解的是這對於雙北六都\n\n3\n00:00:48,152 --> 00:01:15,578\n公共運輸系統非常便捷的地方我們有可能藉由交通搭乘交通運輸系統的補貼來轉移他們駕駛的需求但是六都以外呢像我們中南部我們對我們的公共運輸不發達的情況下你即便有大眾運輸系統的補貼也沒有辦法移轉啊\n\n4\n00:01:16,818 --> 00:01:39,421\n你提到了我看到你相關的規劃你有幸福巴士幸福小黃等等但是有沒有辦法整個轉移他們的這樣子大眾運輸的需求有沒有辦法報告委員我先跟您報告交通部推動的高齡駕照的管理並不是要限制高齡者的使用\n\n5\n00:01:40,402 --> 00:01:57,429\n那目前的作法當然是75歲以上他要再做認知跟體格的檢查確認他安全有認知能力沒有其他的問題避免造成他自己跟周邊行人的危害所以這一塊是要確認而已並不是要限制他行動我知道我們沒有歧視的問題因為\n\n6\n00:02:03,832 --> 00:02:18,455\n我們每一個人都會變老在座的每一位都有這個問題啊早晚而已嘛我們也是在解決我們本身的問題耶沒有錯而且每個人狀況不一樣對所以我是要了解的是當我們在解決這個問題的時候你們目前提出的方法有沒有辦法確實的解決我們這樣問題嘛\n\n7\n00:02:29,958 --> 00:02:44,213\n我看到了你們所謂的你們現在著重的就是補助大眾運輸的補貼但是你真正的政府要怎麼樣解決這個政策其實我們我其實為什麼會在經濟委員會召開這個問題\n\n8\n00:02:47,637 --> 00:03:09,567\n就是你們現在政府要發展AI嘛你的AI要整體發展你一定要有辦法應用嘛是不是你能夠應用到智慧交通我那天問國發會主委啊我說智慧交通是不是你負責他說不是啊是那個國科會所以我今天才請國科會來啊國科會的書副主委你要不要來說明一下請國科會的書副主委\n\n9\n00:03:17,259 --> 00:03:46,144\n是跟趙偉還有主席報告一下相關新AI十大建設的部分有關智慧生活圈裡面是有這一項但是我們現在在相關計畫裡面以大南方新矽谷為例主要是希望推動把建立建起來把相關的應用帶進來所以不管是在智慧交通智慧餐飲甚至是智慧運輸以及整個的智慧照護的部分都可以來發展這個部分\n\n10\n00:03:47,156 --> 00:04:10,312\n所以還是在試辦計畫嘛是不是還是在試辦計畫嘛那怎麼樣子可以大規模的推廣還有未來我們國家要推廣的方向是怎麼樣子的其實我剛才在聽所有委員的詢答的時候我就想到了啊政府的政策有沒有定啊\n\n11\n00:04:11,172 --> 00:04:18,756\n我們在解決我們長者用車需求的時候第一個我們有公共運輸系統\n\n12\n00:04:20,290 --> 00:04:38,815\n我們有什麼未來現在在很多國家大家在推動的是不是要用自駕車的方式或者我們現在目前的交通部的法規有沒有辦法來讓我們的自駕車能夠馬上上路以及\n\n13\n00:04:44,597 --> 00:04:55,035\n我那天去了找我們的車車中心我們看到了車車中心目前在發展的半自駕的公共運輸系統他就是讓\n\n14\n00:04:58,860 --> 00:05:24,701\n運具上面有駕駛但是我們未來交通部有沒有辦法延長像這樣子智慧運具半自動駕駛的公共運輸系統我們駕駛的駕駛年限因為在配合智慧的這樣的輔助系統之後他們可不可以延長\n\n15\n00:05:26,062 --> 00:05:54,929\n我們公共運輸系統駕駛的駕駛年限因為其實我們看到在駕駛的這個什麼在一些歐美國家的相關的就是自動駕駛的脫離率來講其實都已經達到了就是很高啊我看到是好像是多少公里我們那個我們次長你有沒有研究\n\n16\n00:05:56,980 --> 00:06:01,579\n市長你有沒有研究?我有研究,你有沒有研究?報告委員不好意思,這一塊我沒有了解\n\n17\n00:06:02,045 --> 00:06:30,056\n我看到了vamovamo就是googlegoogle的那個他發展的那個那個計程車他的脫離率是兩萬七千八百七十公里代表了你駕駛了兩萬七千八百七十公里以後你才需要人的輔助那當你這樣的時候我們政府單位你有沒有去研究\n\n18\n00:06:31,496 --> 00:06:55,146\n當我們導入相關的這樣子的一個半自動的駕駛的時候能不能夠延長公共運輸系統駕駛的年限包委員您提的其實是重點提供智慧運輸或自駕車本身好幾個面向可以第一個就是剛剛我們其他委員有提到這個人力不足\n\n19\n00:06:55,706 --> 00:07:18,815\n然後它的操作過老甚至有很多問題它沒有辦法依照它的駕駛過程譬如說PR駕駛這一類都可以透過自駕車透過智慧運輸的協助讓駕駛用更低的精力更少的注意力去完成它的任務所以它就可以撐更久的時間所以目前像很多國家有的駕駛已經延長到68我們計程車也可以延長所以這一類的議題\n\n20\n00:07:23,757 --> 00:07:46,676\n都是可以降低驾驶者的需求跟他的劳动力的压力那第二个呢也可以提高他的政治能力降低对路面行人的危害以及对危险驾驶的避让所以这一块我们认为一定ADAS或者是自驾车的导入能够更快导入公共运输一定可以提供更好的这个服务能量\n\n21\n00:07:47,296 --> 00:08:14,630\n所以你也認為說那你們到底政府的政策有沒有我們現在的任務就是全力用計畫來協助這個沙盒實驗沙盒實驗裡面讓這些業者在裡面排除既有法規的限制把他的能力發揮出來然後我們根據沙盒實驗的結果回饋到我們的修法過程所以現在我們已經委託車安中心BSCC就沙盒實驗的過程有哪些議題\n\n22\n00:08:15,971 --> 00:08:36,526\n納入我們法規的調和跟修正所以這是同步在作業所以一旦車子能夠做得越快越好我們就可以馬上修正法規來調整好那其實上次我們在淘機已經試過讓公園園的9人8完全用50公里的時速自動駕駛然後自動做merging就是匯流跟分流\n\n23\n00:08:37,186 --> 00:09:04,426\n所以目前九人巴士已经有这样的能力已经实验完成那只是说它要落地的过程它的车子要能够量产商业化符合既有的法规所以这些过程我们还要再处理那这个部分你们进行了如何我刚跟你报告大概两年多前已经有工业院的这个自驾九人巴已经上路了那目前大客车的部分还在研发试验中尤其是我们有个计划在淡水淡海新市镇\n\n24\n00:09:05,126 --> 00:09:27,669\n那這一類的成熟度越高我們就能夠導入那如果像我們我們彰化呢我們彰化市呢我們彰化市也是一個就是小型的一個繁華的一個城市嘛那對於公共運輸的這個那能不能做因為你們都是在空曠的地區嘛我們一定要考驗其實我那天去車車中心郭部長是不是請你\n\n25\n00:09:28,610 --> 00:09:54,942\n也順便說一下你們到底目前國家發展的方向是什麼嗎你們一定要給業者給民眾有一個確切的發展方向嗎到底是不是是公共運輸系統還是無人就是自駕車的系統這要給所有的業者以及民眾有一個遵循的方向也可以解決我們所有人的需求問題啊\n\n26\n00:09:55,902 --> 00:10:12,002\n所以因为这样子所以才会利用这个沙盒的这个计划来推动我想这个是牵扯到很多的一个部门那我想基于安全基于整个社会的安全我想我们是这个第一个考虑所以需要一点时间请委员能够了解\n\n27\n00:10:12,162 --> 00:10:26,140\n法規法令啊是不是交通部的法規法令要怎麼共同的合作啊對這個就是需要去等到這個計畫實驗成功以後啊那麼再來這個討論這個法規法令\n\n28\n00:10:27,261 --> 00:10:48,970\n我們現在是要解決這整體的需要這是不管是我們現在或者是未來這是非常重要的需求因為畢竟我們社會就是邁向這樣子的一個社會的趨勢那因為這個整個計畫還沒有完成之前就修法可能會比較危險一點那什麼時候計畫可以完成什麼時候計畫可以完成\n\n29\n00:10:53,243 --> 00:11:11,669\n什麼時候可以計劃完成?董委員我說明一下齁那目前我們有大概有18個自駕案在沙盒試驗那目前比較成功最成功的就是在台積電廠區他在14廠跟18廠之間去做這個人員的運輸啦齁他累計的大概5萬多公里啦齁那所以這個是一個所以\n\n30\n00:11:13,069 --> 00:11:29,142\n那我們跟交通部配合是在這樣的數據的收集過程中那交通部也應用在這個時間內也在法規上也訂定了這個指引那所以因為這個是針對安全的部分那我們會慢慢的推進郭部長你回答交通部是不是太落後\n\n31\n00:11:30,271 --> 00:11:51,512\n也沒有啦交通部是不是太落後我們這個交通部長坐我旁邊的啦會不會太落後有沒有跟上科技的腳步我們說要發展AI你如果AI的應用都沒有發展的情況下怎麼樣提高AI的需求\n\n32\n00:11:52,372 --> 00:12:09,748\n我想我們還是基於安全安全第一啦我當然就要安全第一然後這個成功以後才可以來修法在沒有成功之前我想我們還是要盡量把這個這個安全的這個因素考慮進來以後然後快速的讓它能夠成功這樣\n\n33\n00:12:11,290 --> 00:12:37,668\n對我當然認為安全一定是唯一的就是最重要的事情因為我們現在可以用AI以後就會速度比較快一點對但是我們要提高AI的需求的時候我們就要相對的要發展AI的應用那我們在發展AI的應用的時候是不是應該對於我們現在目前切身需要解決的問題你們加速進行是不是我們會加速進行好謝謝謝謝\n\n34\n00:12:41,358 --> 00:12:41,378\n謝謝鳳委員\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n8322\t14715\t謝謝主席我想要先請交通部林市長請交通部林市長市長\n20350\t47291\t早我想要知道目前交通部你演繹限制高齡長者上路但是然後希望他們可以轉成大眾運輸系統我也看到今天也看到交通部對於大眾運輸系統達成的補貼那但是我想要了解的是這對於雙北六都\n48152\t75578\t公共運輸系統非常便捷的地方我們有可能藉由交通搭乘交通運輸系統的補貼來轉移他們駕駛的需求但是六都以外呢像我們中南部我們對我們的公共運輸不發達的情況下你即便有大眾運輸系統的補貼也沒有辦法移轉啊\n76818\t99421\t你提到了我看到你相關的規劃你有幸福巴士幸福小黃等等但是有沒有辦法整個轉移他們的這樣子大眾運輸的需求有沒有辦法報告委員我先跟您報告交通部推動的高齡駕照的管理並不是要限制高齡者的使用\n100402\t117429\t那目前的作法當然是75歲以上他要再做認知跟體格的檢查確認他安全有認知能力沒有其他的問題避免造成他自己跟周邊行人的危害所以這一塊是要確認而已並不是要限制他行動我知道我們沒有歧視的問題因為\n123832\t138455\t我們每一個人都會變老 在座的每一位都有這個問題啊 早晚而已嘛我們也是在解決我們本身的問題耶沒有錯 而且每個人狀況不一樣對 所以我是要了解的是當我們在解決這個問題的時候你們目前提出的方法有沒有辦法確實的解決我們這樣問題嘛\n149958\t164213\t我看到了你們所謂的你們現在著重的就是補助大眾運輸的補貼但是你真正的政府要怎麼樣解決這個政策其實我們我其實為什麼會在經濟委員會召開這個問題\n167637\t189567\t就是你們現在政府要發展AI嘛你的AI要整體發展你一定要有辦法應用嘛是不是你能夠應用到智慧交通我那天問國發會主委啊我說智慧交通是不是你負責他說不是啊是那個國科會所以我今天才請國科會來啊國科會的書副主委你要不要來說明一下請國科會的書副主委\n197259\t226144\t是 跟趙偉還有主席報告一下相關新AI十大建設的部分有關智慧生活圈裡面是有這一項但是我們現在在相關計畫裡面以大南方新矽谷為例主要是希望推動把建立建起來把相關的應用帶進來所以不管是在智慧交通 智慧餐飲甚至是智慧運輸以及整個的智慧照護的部分都可以來發展這個部分\n227156\t250312\t所以還是在試辦計畫嘛 是不是 還是在試辦計畫嘛那怎麼樣子可以大規模的推廣還有未來我們國家要推廣的方向是怎麼樣子的其實我剛才在聽所有委員的詢答的時候我就想到了啊 政府的政策有沒有定啊\n251172\t258756\t我們在解決我們長者用車需求的時候第一個我們有公共運輸系統\n260290\t278815\t我們有什麼未來現在在很多國家大家在推動的是不是要用自駕車的方式或者我們現在目前的交通部的法規有沒有辦法來讓我們的自駕車能夠馬上上路以及\n284597\t295035\t我那天去了找我們的車車中心我們看到了車車中心目前在發展的半自駕的公共運輸系統他就是讓\n298860\t324701\t運具上面有駕駛但是我們未來交通部有沒有辦法延長像這樣子智慧運具半自動駕駛的公共運輸系統我們駕駛的駕駛年限因為在配合智慧的這樣的輔助系統之後他們可不可以延長\n326062\t354929\t我們公共運輸系統駕駛的駕駛年限因為其實我們看到在駕駛的這個什麼在一些歐美國家的相關的就是自動駕駛的脫離率來講其實都已經達到了就是很高啊我看到是好像是多少公里我們那個我們次長你有沒有研究\n356980\t361579\t市長你有沒有研究?我有研究,你有沒有研究?報告委員不好意思,這一塊我沒有了解\n362045\t390056\t我看到了vamo vamo就是googlegoogle的那個他發展的那個那個計程車他的脫離率是兩萬七千八百七十公里代表了你駕駛了兩萬七千八百七十公里以後你才需要人的輔助那當你這樣的時候我們政府單位你有沒有去研究\n391496\t415146\t當我們導入相關的這樣子的一個半自動的駕駛的時候能不能夠延長公共運輸系統駕駛的年限包委員您提的其實是重點提供智慧運輸或自駕車本身好幾個面向可以第一個就是剛剛我們其他委員有提到這個人力不足\n415706\t438815\t然後它的操作過老甚至有很多問題它沒有辦法依照它的駕駛過程譬如說PR駕駛這一類都可以透過自駕車透過智慧運輸的協助讓駕駛用更低的精力更少的注意力去完成它的任務所以它就可以撐更久的時間所以目前像很多國家有的駕駛已經延長到68我們計程車也可以延長所以這一類的議題\n443757\t466676\t都是可以降低驾驶者的需求跟他的劳动力的压力那第二个呢也可以提高他的政治能力降低对路面行人的危害以及对危险驾驶的避让所以这一块我们认为一定ADAS或者是自驾车的导入能够更快导入公共运输一定可以提供更好的这个服务能量\n467296\t494630\t所以你也認為說那你們到底政府的政策有沒有我們現在的任務就是全力用計畫來協助這個沙盒實驗沙盒實驗裡面讓這些業者在裡面排除既有法規的限制把他的能力發揮出來然後我們根據沙盒實驗的結果回饋到我們的修法過程所以現在我們已經委託車安中心BSCC就沙盒實驗的過程有哪些議題\n495971\t516526\t納入我們法規的調和跟修正所以這是同步在作業所以一旦車子能夠做得越快越好我們就可以馬上修正法規來調整好那其實上次我們在淘機已經試過讓公園園的9人8完全用50公里的時速自動駕駛然後自動做merging就是匯流跟分流\n517186\t544426\t所以目前九人巴士已经有这样的能力已经实验完成那只是说它要落地的过程它的车子要能够量产商业化符合既有的法规所以这些过程我们还要再处理那这个部分你们进行了如何我刚跟你报告大概两年多前已经有工业院的这个自驾九人巴已经上路了那目前大客车的部分还在研发试验中尤其是我们有个计划在淡水淡海新市镇\n545126\t567669\t那這一類的成熟度越高我們就能夠導入那如果像我們我們彰化呢我們彰化市呢我們彰化市也是一個就是小型的一個繁華的一個城市嘛那對於公共運輸的這個那能不能做因為你們都是在空曠的地區嘛我們一定要考驗其實我那天去車車中心郭部長是不是請你\n568610\t594942\t也順便說一下你們到底目前國家發展的方向是什麼嗎你們一定要給業者給民眾有一個確切的發展方向嗎到底是不是是公共運輸系統還是無人就是自駕車的系統這要給所有的業者以及民眾有一個遵循的方向也可以解決我們所有人的需求問題啊\n595902\t612002\t所以因为这样子所以才会利用这个沙盒的这个计划来推动我想这个是牵扯到很多的一个部门那我想基于安全基于整个社会的安全我想我们是这个第一个考虑所以需要一点时间请委员能够了解\n612162\t626140\t法規法令啊是不是交通部的法規法令要怎麼共同的合作啊對這個就是需要去等到這個計畫實驗成功以後啊那麼再來這個討論這個法規法令\n627261\t648970\t我們現在是要解決這整體的需要這是不管是我們現在或者是未來這是非常重要的需求因為畢竟我們社會就是邁向這樣子的一個社會的趨勢那因為這個整個計畫還沒有完成之前就修法可能會比較危險一點那什麼時候計畫可以完成什麼時候計畫可以完成\n653243\t671669\t什麼時候可以計劃完成?董委員我說明一下齁那目前我們有大概有18個自駕案在沙盒試驗那目前比較成功最成功的就是在台積電廠區他在14廠跟18廠之間去做這個人員的運輸啦齁他累計的大概5萬多公里啦齁那所以這個是一個所以\n673069\t689142\t那我們跟交通部配合是在這樣的數據的收集過程中那交通部也應用在這個時間內也在法規上也訂定了這個指引那所以因為這個是針對安全的部分那我們會慢慢的推進郭部長你回答交通部是不是太落後\n690271\t711512\t也沒有啦 交通部是不是太落後我們這個交通部長坐我旁邊的啦會不會太落後 有沒有跟上科技的腳步我們說要發展AI 你如果AI的應用都沒有發展的情況下怎麼樣提高AI的需求\n712372\t729748\t我想我們還是基於安全安全第一啦我當然就要安全第一然後這個成功以後才可以來修法在沒有成功之前我想我們還是要盡量把這個這個安全的這個因素考慮進來以後然後快速的讓它能夠成功這樣\n731290\t757668\t對我當然認為安全一定是唯一的就是最重要的事情因為我們現在可以用AI以後就會速度比較快一點對但是我們要提高AI的需求的時候我們就要相對的要發展AI的應用那我們在發展AI的應用的時候是不是應該對於我們現在目前切身需要解決的問題你們加速進行是不是我們會加速進行好謝謝謝謝\n761358\t761378\t謝謝鳳委員\n","txt":"謝謝主席我想要先請交通部林市長請交通部林市長市長\n早我想要知道目前交通部你演繹限制高齡長者上路但是然後希望他們可以轉成大眾運輸系統我也看到今天也看到交通部對於大眾運輸系統達成的補貼那但是我想要了解的是這對於雙北六都\n公共運輸系統非常便捷的地方我們有可能藉由交通搭乘交通運輸系統的補貼來轉移他們駕駛的需求但是六都以外呢像我們中南部我們對我們的公共運輸不發達的情況下你即便有大眾運輸系統的補貼也沒有辦法移轉啊\n你提到了我看到你相關的規劃你有幸福巴士幸福小黃等等但是有沒有辦法整個轉移他們的這樣子大眾運輸的需求有沒有辦法報告委員我先跟您報告交通部推動的高齡駕照的管理並不是要限制高齡者的使用\n那目前的作法當然是75歲以上他要再做認知跟體格的檢查確認他安全有認知能力沒有其他的問題避免造成他自己跟周邊行人的危害所以這一塊是要確認而已並不是要限制他行動我知道我們沒有歧視的問題因為\n我們每一個人都會變老 在座的每一位都有這個問題啊 早晚而已嘛我們也是在解決我們本身的問題耶沒有錯 而且每個人狀況不一樣對 所以我是要了解的是當我們在解決這個問題的時候你們目前提出的方法有沒有辦法確實的解決我們這樣問題嘛\n我看到了你們所謂的你們現在著重的就是補助大眾運輸的補貼但是你真正的政府要怎麼樣解決這個政策其實我們我其實為什麼會在經濟委員會召開這個問題\n就是你們現在政府要發展AI嘛你的AI要整體發展你一定要有辦法應用嘛是不是你能夠應用到智慧交通我那天問國發會主委啊我說智慧交通是不是你負責他說不是啊是那個國科會所以我今天才請國科會來啊國科會的書副主委你要不要來說明一下請國科會的書副主委\n是 跟趙偉還有主席報告一下相關新AI十大建設的部分有關智慧生活圈裡面是有這一項但是我們現在在相關計畫裡面以大南方新矽谷為例主要是希望推動把建立建起來把相關的應用帶進來所以不管是在智慧交通 智慧餐飲甚至是智慧運輸以及整個的智慧照護的部分都可以來發展這個部分\n所以還是在試辦計畫嘛 是不是 還是在試辦計畫嘛那怎麼樣子可以大規模的推廣還有未來我們國家要推廣的方向是怎麼樣子的其實我剛才在聽所有委員的詢答的時候我就想到了啊 政府的政策有沒有定啊\n我們在解決我們長者用車需求的時候第一個我們有公共運輸系統\n我們有什麼未來現在在很多國家大家在推動的是不是要用自駕車的方式或者我們現在目前的交通部的法規有沒有辦法來讓我們的自駕車能夠馬上上路以及\n我那天去了找我們的車車中心我們看到了車車中心目前在發展的半自駕的公共運輸系統他就是讓\n運具上面有駕駛但是我們未來交通部有沒有辦法延長像這樣子智慧運具半自動駕駛的公共運輸系統我們駕駛的駕駛年限因為在配合智慧的這樣的輔助系統之後他們可不可以延長\n我們公共運輸系統駕駛的駕駛年限因為其實我們看到在駕駛的這個什麼在一些歐美國家的相關的就是自動駕駛的脫離率來講其實都已經達到了就是很高啊我看到是好像是多少公里我們那個我們次長你有沒有研究\n市長你有沒有研究?我有研究,你有沒有研究?報告委員不好意思,這一塊我沒有了解\n我看到了vamo vamo就是googlegoogle的那個他發展的那個那個計程車他的脫離率是兩萬七千八百七十公里代表了你駕駛了兩萬七千八百七十公里以後你才需要人的輔助那當你這樣的時候我們政府單位你有沒有去研究\n當我們導入相關的這樣子的一個半自動的駕駛的時候能不能夠延長公共運輸系統駕駛的年限包委員您提的其實是重點提供智慧運輸或自駕車本身好幾個面向可以第一個就是剛剛我們其他委員有提到這個人力不足\n然後它的操作過老甚至有很多問題它沒有辦法依照它的駕駛過程譬如說PR駕駛這一類都可以透過自駕車透過智慧運輸的協助讓駕駛用更低的精力更少的注意力去完成它的任務所以它就可以撐更久的時間所以目前像很多國家有的駕駛已經延長到68我們計程車也可以延長所以這一類的議題\n都是可以降低驾驶者的需求跟他的劳动力的压力那第二个呢也可以提高他的政治能力降低对路面行人的危害以及对危险驾驶的避让所以这一块我们认为一定ADAS或者是自驾车的导入能够更快导入公共运输一定可以提供更好的这个服务能量\n所以你也認為說那你們到底政府的政策有沒有我們現在的任務就是全力用計畫來協助這個沙盒實驗沙盒實驗裡面讓這些業者在裡面排除既有法規的限制把他的能力發揮出來然後我們根據沙盒實驗的結果回饋到我們的修法過程所以現在我們已經委託車安中心BSCC就沙盒實驗的過程有哪些議題\n納入我們法規的調和跟修正所以這是同步在作業所以一旦車子能夠做得越快越好我們就可以馬上修正法規來調整好那其實上次我們在淘機已經試過讓公園園的9人8完全用50公里的時速自動駕駛然後自動做merging就是匯流跟分流\n所以目前九人巴士已经有这样的能力已经实验完成那只是说它要落地的过程它的车子要能够量产商业化符合既有的法规所以这些过程我们还要再处理那这个部分你们进行了如何我刚跟你报告大概两年多前已经有工业院的这个自驾九人巴已经上路了那目前大客车的部分还在研发试验中尤其是我们有个计划在淡水淡海新市镇\n那這一類的成熟度越高我們就能夠導入那如果像我們我們彰化呢我們彰化市呢我們彰化市也是一個就是小型的一個繁華的一個城市嘛那對於公共運輸的這個那能不能做因為你們都是在空曠的地區嘛我們一定要考驗其實我那天去車車中心郭部長是不是請你\n也順便說一下你們到底目前國家發展的方向是什麼嗎你們一定要給業者給民眾有一個確切的發展方向嗎到底是不是是公共運輸系統還是無人就是自駕車的系統這要給所有的業者以及民眾有一個遵循的方向也可以解決我們所有人的需求問題啊\n所以因为这样子所以才会利用这个沙盒的这个计划来推动我想这个是牵扯到很多的一个部门那我想基于安全基于整个社会的安全我想我们是这个第一个考虑所以需要一点时间请委员能够了解\n法規法令啊是不是交通部的法規法令要怎麼共同的合作啊對這個就是需要去等到這個計畫實驗成功以後啊那麼再來這個討論這個法規法令\n我們現在是要解決這整體的需要這是不管是我們現在或者是未來這是非常重要的需求因為畢竟我們社會就是邁向這樣子的一個社會的趨勢那因為這個整個計畫還沒有完成之前就修法可能會比較危險一點那什麼時候計畫可以完成什麼時候計畫可以完成\n什麼時候可以計劃完成?董委員我說明一下齁那目前我們有大概有18個自駕案在沙盒試驗那目前比較成功最成功的就是在台積電廠區他在14廠跟18廠之間去做這個人員的運輸啦齁他累計的大概5萬多公里啦齁那所以這個是一個所以\n那我們跟交通部配合是在這樣的數據的收集過程中那交通部也應用在這個時間內也在法規上也訂定了這個指引那所以因為這個是針對安全的部分那我們會慢慢的推進郭部長你回答交通部是不是太落後\n也沒有啦 交通部是不是太落後我們這個交通部長坐我旁邊的啦會不會太落後 有沒有跟上科技的腳步我們說要發展AI 你如果AI的應用都沒有發展的情況下怎麼樣提高AI的需求\n我想我們還是基於安全安全第一啦我當然就要安全第一然後這個成功以後才可以來修法在沒有成功之前我想我們還是要盡量把這個這個安全的這個因素考慮進來以後然後快速的讓它能夠成功這樣\n對我當然認為安全一定是唯一的就是最重要的事情因為我們現在可以用AI以後就會速度比較快一點對但是我們要提高AI的需求的時候我們就要相對的要發展AI的應用那我們在發展AI的應用的時候是不是應該對於我們現在目前切身需要解決的問題你們加速進行是不是我們會加速進行好謝謝謝謝\n謝謝鳳委員\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:08.322 --> 00:14.715\n謝謝主席我想要先請交通部林市長請交通部林市長市長\n\n00:20.350 --> 00:47.291\n早我想要知道目前交通部你演繹限制高齡長者上路但是然後希望他們可以轉成大眾運輸系統我也看到今天也看到交通部對於大眾運輸系統達成的補貼那但是我想要了解的是這對於雙北六都\n\n00:48.152 --> 01:15.578\n公共運輸系統非常便捷的地方我們有可能藉由交通搭乘交通運輸系統的補貼來轉移他們駕駛的需求但是六都以外呢像我們中南部我們對我們的公共運輸不發達的情況下你即便有大眾運輸系統的補貼也沒有辦法移轉啊\n\n01:16.818 --> 01:39.421\n你提到了我看到你相關的規劃你有幸福巴士幸福小黃等等但是有沒有辦法整個轉移他們的這樣子大眾運輸的需求有沒有辦法報告委員我先跟您報告交通部推動的高齡駕照的管理並不是要限制高齡者的使用\n\n01:40.402 --> 01:57.429\n那目前的作法當然是75歲以上他要再做認知跟體格的檢查確認他安全有認知能力沒有其他的問題避免造成他自己跟周邊行人的危害所以這一塊是要確認而已並不是要限制他行動我知道我們沒有歧視的問題因為\n\n02:03.832 --> 02:18.455\n我們每一個人都會變老在座的每一位都有這個問題啊早晚而已嘛我們也是在解決我們本身的問題耶沒有錯而且每個人狀況不一樣對所以我是要了解的是當我們在解決這個問題的時候你們目前提出的方法有沒有辦法確實的解決我們這樣問題嘛\n\n02:29.958 --> 02:44.213\n我看到了你們所謂的你們現在著重的就是補助大眾運輸的補貼但是你真正的政府要怎麼樣解決這個政策其實我們我其實為什麼會在經濟委員會召開這個問題\n\n02:47.637 --> 03:09.567\n就是你們現在政府要發展AI嘛你的AI要整體發展你一定要有辦法應用嘛是不是你能夠應用到智慧交通我那天問國發會主委啊我說智慧交通是不是你負責他說不是啊是那個國科會所以我今天才請國科會來啊國科會的書副主委你要不要來說明一下請國科會的書副主委\n\n03:17.259 --> 03:46.144\n是跟趙偉還有主席報告一下相關新AI十大建設的部分有關智慧生活圈裡面是有這一項但是我們現在在相關計畫裡面以大南方新矽谷為例主要是希望推動把建立建起來把相關的應用帶進來所以不管是在智慧交通智慧餐飲甚至是智慧運輸以及整個的智慧照護的部分都可以來發展這個部分\n\n03:47.156 --> 04:10.312\n所以還是在試辦計畫嘛是不是還是在試辦計畫嘛那怎麼樣子可以大規模的推廣還有未來我們國家要推廣的方向是怎麼樣子的其實我剛才在聽所有委員的詢答的時候我就想到了啊政府的政策有沒有定啊\n\n04:11.172 --> 04:18.756\n我們在解決我們長者用車需求的時候第一個我們有公共運輸系統\n\n04:20.290 --> 04:38.815\n我們有什麼未來現在在很多國家大家在推動的是不是要用自駕車的方式或者我們現在目前的交通部的法規有沒有辦法來讓我們的自駕車能夠馬上上路以及\n\n04:44.597 --> 04:55.035\n我那天去了找我們的車車中心我們看到了車車中心目前在發展的半自駕的公共運輸系統他就是讓\n\n04:58.860 --> 05:24.701\n運具上面有駕駛但是我們未來交通部有沒有辦法延長像這樣子智慧運具半自動駕駛的公共運輸系統我們駕駛的駕駛年限因為在配合智慧的這樣的輔助系統之後他們可不可以延長\n\n05:26.062 --> 05:54.929\n我們公共運輸系統駕駛的駕駛年限因為其實我們看到在駕駛的這個什麼在一些歐美國家的相關的就是自動駕駛的脫離率來講其實都已經達到了就是很高啊我看到是好像是多少公里我們那個我們次長你有沒有研究\n\n05:56.980 --> 06:01.579\n市長你有沒有研究?我有研究,你有沒有研究?報告委員不好意思,這一塊我沒有了解\n\n06:02.045 --> 06:30.056\n我看到了vamovamo就是googlegoogle的那個他發展的那個那個計程車他的脫離率是兩萬七千八百七十公里代表了你駕駛了兩萬七千八百七十公里以後你才需要人的輔助那當你這樣的時候我們政府單位你有沒有去研究\n\n06:31.496 --> 06:55.146\n當我們導入相關的這樣子的一個半自動的駕駛的時候能不能夠延長公共運輸系統駕駛的年限包委員您提的其實是重點提供智慧運輸或自駕車本身好幾個面向可以第一個就是剛剛我們其他委員有提到這個人力不足\n\n06:55.706 --> 07:18.815\n然後它的操作過老甚至有很多問題它沒有辦法依照它的駕駛過程譬如說PR駕駛這一類都可以透過自駕車透過智慧運輸的協助讓駕駛用更低的精力更少的注意力去完成它的任務所以它就可以撐更久的時間所以目前像很多國家有的駕駛已經延長到68我們計程車也可以延長所以這一類的議題\n\n07:23.757 --> 07:46.676\n都是可以降低驾驶者的需求跟他的劳动力的压力那第二个呢也可以提高他的政治能力降低对路面行人的危害以及对危险驾驶的避让所以这一块我们认为一定ADAS或者是自驾车的导入能够更快导入公共运输一定可以提供更好的这个服务能量\n\n07:47.296 --> 08:14.630\n所以你也認為說那你們到底政府的政策有沒有我們現在的任務就是全力用計畫來協助這個沙盒實驗沙盒實驗裡面讓這些業者在裡面排除既有法規的限制把他的能力發揮出來然後我們根據沙盒實驗的結果回饋到我們的修法過程所以現在我們已經委託車安中心BSCC就沙盒實驗的過程有哪些議題\n\n08:15.971 --> 08:36.526\n納入我們法規的調和跟修正所以這是同步在作業所以一旦車子能夠做得越快越好我們就可以馬上修正法規來調整好那其實上次我們在淘機已經試過讓公園園的9人8完全用50公里的時速自動駕駛然後自動做merging就是匯流跟分流\n\n08:37.186 --> 09:04.426\n所以目前九人巴士已经有这样的能力已经实验完成那只是说它要落地的过程它的车子要能够量产商业化符合既有的法规所以这些过程我们还要再处理那这个部分你们进行了如何我刚跟你报告大概两年多前已经有工业院的这个自驾九人巴已经上路了那目前大客车的部分还在研发试验中尤其是我们有个计划在淡水淡海新市镇\n\n09:05.126 --> 09:27.669\n那這一類的成熟度越高我們就能夠導入那如果像我們我們彰化呢我們彰化市呢我們彰化市也是一個就是小型的一個繁華的一個城市嘛那對於公共運輸的這個那能不能做因為你們都是在空曠的地區嘛我們一定要考驗其實我那天去車車中心郭部長是不是請你\n\n09:28.610 --> 09:54.942\n也順便說一下你們到底目前國家發展的方向是什麼嗎你們一定要給業者給民眾有一個確切的發展方向嗎到底是不是是公共運輸系統還是無人就是自駕車的系統這要給所有的業者以及民眾有一個遵循的方向也可以解決我們所有人的需求問題啊\n\n09:55.902 --> 10:12.002\n所以因为这样子所以才会利用这个沙盒的这个计划来推动我想这个是牵扯到很多的一个部门那我想基于安全基于整个社会的安全我想我们是这个第一个考虑所以需要一点时间请委员能够了解\n\n10:12.162 --> 10:26.140\n法規法令啊是不是交通部的法規法令要怎麼共同的合作啊對這個就是需要去等到這個計畫實驗成功以後啊那麼再來這個討論這個法規法令\n\n10:27.261 --> 10:48.970\n我們現在是要解決這整體的需要這是不管是我們現在或者是未來這是非常重要的需求因為畢竟我們社會就是邁向這樣子的一個社會的趨勢那因為這個整個計畫還沒有完成之前就修法可能會比較危險一點那什麼時候計畫可以完成什麼時候計畫可以完成\n\n10:53.243 --> 11:11.669\n什麼時候可以計劃完成?董委員我說明一下齁那目前我們有大概有18個自駕案在沙盒試驗那目前比較成功最成功的就是在台積電廠區他在14廠跟18廠之間去做這個人員的運輸啦齁他累計的大概5萬多公里啦齁那所以這個是一個所以\n\n11:13.069 --> 11:29.142\n那我們跟交通部配合是在這樣的數據的收集過程中那交通部也應用在這個時間內也在法規上也訂定了這個指引那所以因為這個是針對安全的部分那我們會慢慢的推進郭部長你回答交通部是不是太落後\n\n11:30.271 --> 11:51.512\n也沒有啦交通部是不是太落後我們這個交通部長坐我旁邊的啦會不會太落後有沒有跟上科技的腳步我們說要發展AI你如果AI的應用都沒有發展的情況下怎麼樣提高AI的需求\n\n11:52.372 --> 12:09.748\n我想我們還是基於安全安全第一啦我當然就要安全第一然後這個成功以後才可以來修法在沒有成功之前我想我們還是要盡量把這個這個安全的這個因素考慮進來以後然後快速的讓它能夠成功這樣\n\n12:11.290 --> 12:37.668\n對我當然認為安全一定是唯一的就是最重要的事情因為我們現在可以用AI以後就會速度比較快一點對但是我們要提高AI的需求的時候我們就要相對的要發展AI的應用那我們在發展AI的應用的時候是不是應該對於我們現在目前切身需要解決的問題你們加速進行是不是我們會加速進行好謝謝謝謝\n\n12:41.358 --> 12:41.378\n謝謝鳳委員\n\n","segments":[{"start":8.322,"end":14.715,"text":"謝謝主席我想要先請交通部林市長請交通部林市長市長"},{"start":20.35,"end":47.291,"text":"早我想要知道目前交通部你演繹限制高齡長者上路但是然後希望他們可以轉成大眾運輸系統我也看到今天也看到交通部對於大眾運輸系統達成的補貼那但是我想要了解的是這對於雙北六都"},{"start":48.152,"end":75.578,"text":"公共運輸系統非常便捷的地方我們有可能藉由交通搭乘交通運輸系統的補貼來轉移他們駕駛的需求但是六都以外呢像我們中南部我們對我們的公共運輸不發達的情況下你即便有大眾運輸系統的補貼也沒有辦法移轉啊"},{"start":76.818,"end":99.421,"text":"你提到了我看到你相關的規劃你有幸福巴士幸福小黃等等但是有沒有辦法整個轉移他們的這樣子大眾運輸的需求有沒有辦法報告委員我先跟您報告交通部推動的高齡駕照的管理並不是要限制高齡者的使用"},{"start":100.402,"end":117.429,"text":"那目前的作法當然是75歲以上他要再做認知跟體格的檢查確認他安全有認知能力沒有其他的問題避免造成他自己跟周邊行人的危害所以這一塊是要確認而已並不是要限制他行動我知道我們沒有歧視的問題因為"},{"start":123.832,"end":138.455,"text":"我們每一個人都會變老 在座的每一位都有這個問題啊 早晚而已嘛我們也是在解決我們本身的問題耶沒有錯 而且每個人狀況不一樣對 所以我是要了解的是當我們在解決這個問題的時候你們目前提出的方法有沒有辦法確實的解決我們這樣問題嘛"},{"start":149.958,"end":164.213,"text":"我看到了你們所謂的你們現在著重的就是補助大眾運輸的補貼但是你真正的政府要怎麼樣解決這個政策其實我們我其實為什麼會在經濟委員會召開這個問題"},{"start":167.637,"end":189.567,"text":"就是你們現在政府要發展AI嘛你的AI要整體發展你一定要有辦法應用嘛是不是你能夠應用到智慧交通我那天問國發會主委啊我說智慧交通是不是你負責他說不是啊是那個國科會所以我今天才請國科會來啊國科會的書副主委你要不要來說明一下請國科會的書副主委"},{"start":197.259,"end":226.144,"text":"是 跟趙偉還有主席報告一下相關新AI十大建設的部分有關智慧生活圈裡面是有這一項但是我們現在在相關計畫裡面以大南方新矽谷為例主要是希望推動把建立建起來把相關的應用帶進來所以不管是在智慧交通 智慧餐飲甚至是智慧運輸以及整個的智慧照護的部分都可以來發展這個部分"},{"start":227.156,"end":250.312,"text":"所以還是在試辦計畫嘛 是不是 還是在試辦計畫嘛那怎麼樣子可以大規模的推廣還有未來我們國家要推廣的方向是怎麼樣子的其實我剛才在聽所有委員的詢答的時候我就想到了啊 政府的政策有沒有定啊"},{"start":251.172,"end":258.756,"text":"我們在解決我們長者用車需求的時候第一個我們有公共運輸系統"},{"start":260.29,"end":278.815,"text":"我們有什麼未來現在在很多國家大家在推動的是不是要用自駕車的方式或者我們現在目前的交通部的法規有沒有辦法來讓我們的自駕車能夠馬上上路以及"},{"start":284.597,"end":295.035,"text":"我那天去了找我們的車車中心我們看到了車車中心目前在發展的半自駕的公共運輸系統他就是讓"},{"start":298.86,"end":324.701,"text":"運具上面有駕駛但是我們未來交通部有沒有辦法延長像這樣子智慧運具半自動駕駛的公共運輸系統我們駕駛的駕駛年限因為在配合智慧的這樣的輔助系統之後他們可不可以延長"},{"start":326.062,"end":354.929,"text":"我們公共運輸系統駕駛的駕駛年限因為其實我們看到在駕駛的這個什麼在一些歐美國家的相關的就是自動駕駛的脫離率來講其實都已經達到了就是很高啊我看到是好像是多少公里我們那個我們次長你有沒有研究"},{"start":356.98,"end":361.579,"text":"市長你有沒有研究?我有研究,你有沒有研究?報告委員不好意思,這一塊我沒有了解"},{"start":362.045,"end":390.056,"text":"我看到了vamo vamo就是googlegoogle的那個他發展的那個那個計程車他的脫離率是兩萬七千八百七十公里代表了你駕駛了兩萬七千八百七十公里以後你才需要人的輔助那當你這樣的時候我們政府單位你有沒有去研究"},{"start":391.496,"end":415.146,"text":"當我們導入相關的這樣子的一個半自動的駕駛的時候能不能夠延長公共運輸系統駕駛的年限包委員您提的其實是重點提供智慧運輸或自駕車本身好幾個面向可以第一個就是剛剛我們其他委員有提到這個人力不足"},{"start":415.706,"end":438.815,"text":"然後它的操作過老甚至有很多問題它沒有辦法依照它的駕駛過程譬如說PR駕駛這一類都可以透過自駕車透過智慧運輸的協助讓駕駛用更低的精力更少的注意力去完成它的任務所以它就可以撐更久的時間所以目前像很多國家有的駕駛已經延長到68我們計程車也可以延長所以這一類的議題"},{"start":443.757,"end":466.676,"text":"都是可以降低驾驶者的需求跟他的劳动力的压力那第二个呢也可以提高他的政治能力降低对路面行人的危害以及对危险驾驶的避让所以这一块我们认为一定ADAS或者是自驾车的导入能够更快导入公共运输一定可以提供更好的这个服务能量"},{"start":467.296,"end":494.63,"text":"所以你也認為說那你們到底政府的政策有沒有我們現在的任務就是全力用計畫來協助這個沙盒實驗沙盒實驗裡面讓這些業者在裡面排除既有法規的限制把他的能力發揮出來然後我們根據沙盒實驗的結果回饋到我們的修法過程所以現在我們已經委託車安中心BSCC就沙盒實驗的過程有哪些議題"},{"start":495.971,"end":516.526,"text":"納入我們法規的調和跟修正所以這是同步在作業所以一旦車子能夠做得越快越好我們就可以馬上修正法規來調整好那其實上次我們在淘機已經試過讓公園園的9人8完全用50公里的時速自動駕駛然後自動做merging就是匯流跟分流"},{"start":517.186,"end":544.426,"text":"所以目前九人巴士已经有这样的能力已经实验完成那只是说它要落地的过程它的车子要能够量产商业化符合既有的法规所以这些过程我们还要再处理那这个部分你们进行了如何我刚跟你报告大概两年多前已经有工业院的这个自驾九人巴已经上路了那目前大客车的部分还在研发试验中尤其是我们有个计划在淡水淡海新市镇"},{"start":545.126,"end":567.669,"text":"那這一類的成熟度越高我們就能夠導入那如果像我們我們彰化呢我們彰化市呢我們彰化市也是一個就是小型的一個繁華的一個城市嘛那對於公共運輸的這個那能不能做因為你們都是在空曠的地區嘛我們一定要考驗其實我那天去車車中心郭部長是不是請你"},{"start":568.61,"end":594.942,"text":"也順便說一下你們到底目前國家發展的方向是什麼嗎你們一定要給業者給民眾有一個確切的發展方向嗎到底是不是是公共運輸系統還是無人就是自駕車的系統這要給所有的業者以及民眾有一個遵循的方向也可以解決我們所有人的需求問題啊"},{"start":595.902,"end":612.002,"text":"所以因为这样子所以才会利用这个沙盒的这个计划来推动我想这个是牵扯到很多的一个部门那我想基于安全基于整个社会的安全我想我们是这个第一个考虑所以需要一点时间请委员能够了解"},{"start":612.162,"end":626.14,"text":"法規法令啊是不是交通部的法規法令要怎麼共同的合作啊對這個就是需要去等到這個計畫實驗成功以後啊那麼再來這個討論這個法規法令"},{"start":627.261,"end":648.97,"text":"我們現在是要解決這整體的需要這是不管是我們現在或者是未來這是非常重要的需求因為畢竟我們社會就是邁向這樣子的一個社會的趨勢那因為這個整個計畫還沒有完成之前就修法可能會比較危險一點那什麼時候計畫可以完成什麼時候計畫可以完成"},{"start":653.243,"end":671.669,"text":"什麼時候可以計劃完成?董委員我說明一下齁那目前我們有大概有18個自駕案在沙盒試驗那目前比較成功最成功的就是在台積電廠區他在14廠跟18廠之間去做這個人員的運輸啦齁他累計的大概5萬多公里啦齁那所以這個是一個所以"},{"start":673.069,"end":689.142,"text":"那我們跟交通部配合是在這樣的數據的收集過程中那交通部也應用在這個時間內也在法規上也訂定了這個指引那所以因為這個是針對安全的部分那我們會慢慢的推進郭部長你回答交通部是不是太落後"},{"start":690.271,"end":711.512,"text":"也沒有啦 交通部是不是太落後我們這個交通部長坐我旁邊的啦會不會太落後 有沒有跟上科技的腳步我們說要發展AI 你如果AI的應用都沒有發展的情況下怎麼樣提高AI的需求"},{"start":712.372,"end":729.748,"text":"我想我們還是基於安全安全第一啦我當然就要安全第一然後這個成功以後才可以來修法在沒有成功之前我想我們還是要盡量把這個這個安全的這個因素考慮進來以後然後快速的讓它能夠成功這樣"},{"start":731.29,"end":757.668,"text":"對我當然認為安全一定是唯一的就是最重要的事情因為我們現在可以用AI以後就會速度比較快一點對但是我們要提高AI的需求的時候我們就要相對的要發展AI的應用那我們在發展AI的應用的時候是不是應該對於我們現在目前切身需要解決的問題你們加速進行是不是我們會加速進行好謝謝謝謝"},{"start":761.358,"end":761.378,"text":"謝謝鳳委員"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":485,"blocks":[["謝委員衣鳯：（10時23分）謝謝主席，我想要先請交通部林次長。"],["主席：請交通部林次長。"],["林次長國顯：召委早。"],["謝委員衣鳯：次長早。我想要知道，目前交通部研議限制高齡長者上路，希望他們可以轉乘大眾運輸系統，我今天也看到交通部對於搭乘大眾運輸系統的補貼，但我想要了解的是，對於雙北、六都公共運輸系統非常便捷的地方，我們有可能藉由對搭乘大眾運輸系統的補貼來轉移他們駕駛的需求，但是六都以外呢？像我們中南部，我們的公共運輸不發達的情況下，即便對大眾運輸系統補貼，也沒有辦法移轉。我看到你提到了相關的規劃，你有幸福巴士、幸福小黃等等，但是有沒有辦法整個轉移他們的大眾運輸的需求，有沒有辦法？"],["林次長國顯：報告委員，我先跟您報告，交通部推動高齡駕照的管理並不是要限制高齡者的使用……"],["謝委員衣鳯：對，我知道。"],["林次長國顯：目前的做法是75歲以上要再做認知跟體格檢查，確認他安全，有認知能力，沒有其他的問題，避免造成他自己跟周邊行人的危害，所以這一塊是要確認而已，並不是要限制他使用，好不好？第二個……"],["謝委員衣鳯：我知道、我知道，好，確認。我知道我們沒有歧視的問題，因為我們每一個人都會變老，在座的每一位都會面臨這個問題，早晚而已嘛……"],["林次長國顯：對、對。"],["謝委員衣鳯：我們也是在解決我們本身的問題耶，是不是？"],["林次長國顯：沒有錯，而且每個人的狀況不一樣……"],["謝委員衣鳯：對，所以……"],["林次長國顯：所以要確認一下。"],["謝委員衣鳯：所以我要了解的是，當我們在解決這個問題的時候，你們目前提出的方法有沒有辦法確實解決這樣問題嘛。我看到了你們現在著重的就是對大眾運輸的補貼，但是政府要怎麼樣真正的解決這個政策，我為什麼會在經濟委員會召開這個議題，就是現在政府要發展AI嘛，你的AI要整體發展，你一定要有辦法應用嘛，是不是？"],["林次長國顯：是。"],["謝委員衣鳯：要能夠應用到智慧交通，我那天問國發會主委說智慧交通是不是你負責，他說不是，是國科會，所以我今天才請國科會來。","國科會蘇副主委，你要不要來說明一下？"],["主席：請國科會蘇副主委。"],["蘇副主任委員振綱：是。跟召委還有主席報告一下，新AI十大建設的部分，有關智慧生活圈裡面是有這一項，但是我們現在在相關計畫裡面，以大南方新矽谷為例，主要是希望推動把系統建立起來，把相關的應用帶進來，所以不管是在智慧交通、智慧餐飲、甚至是智慧運輸以及整個智慧照護的部分，都可以來發展這個部分。"],["謝委員衣鳯：所以還是在試辦計畫嘛，是不是？"],["蘇副主任委員振綱：是。因為……"],["謝委員衣鳯：還是在試辦計畫嘛。"],["蘇副主任委員振綱：是。"],["謝委員衣鳯：那怎麼樣可以大規模的推廣，還有未來我們國家要推廣的方向是怎麼樣的？其實我剛才在聽所有委員詢答的時候，我就想到了，政府的政策有沒有定？我們在解決長者用車需求的時候，第一個，我們有公共運輸系統，我們有什麼？現在很多國家在推動的，是不是要用自駕車的方式，或者目前交通部的法規有沒有辦法讓我們的自駕車能夠馬上上路？我那天去了車測中心，我們看到了車測中心目前在發展的半自駕公共運輸系統，就是讓運具上面有駕駛，但是我們未來交通部有沒有辦法延長，像這樣子智慧運具半自動駕駛的公共運輸系統駕駛的駕駛年限？在配合智慧輔助系統之後，可不可以延長公共運輸系統駕駛的駕駛年限，因為其實我們看到在一些歐美國家，相關的半自動或自動駕駛的脫離率來講，其實都已經很高了，但是多少公里，次長你有沒有研究？次長，你有沒有研究，我有研究，你有沒有研究？"],["林次長國顯：報告委員，不好意思，這一塊我沒有了解。"],["謝委員衣鳯：我看到了Waymo，就是Google發展的自駕計程車，它的脫離率是2萬7,870公里，代表駕駛了2萬7,870公里以後才需要人的輔助，像這樣我們政府單位有沒有去研究，當我們導入這樣子半自動駕駛系統的時候，能不能夠延長公共運輸系統駕駛的年限？"],["林次長國顯：是。報告委員，您提的其實是重點，提供智慧運輸或是自駕車本身有好幾個面向，第一個就是剛剛其他委員也有提到的人力不足、操作過勞，甚至有很多問題，譬如說疲勞駕駛，他沒有辦法依照他的駕駛過程……這類都可以透過自駕車、透過智慧運輸的協助，讓駕駛用更低的精力、更少的注意力去完成任務，他就可以撐更久的時間。目前很多國家有的駕駛已經延長到68歲，我們計程車也可以延長，所以這類的議題都是可以降低駕駛者的需求跟他的勞動力的壓力。第二個，可以提高偵知能力，降低對路面行人的危害，以及對危險駕駛的避讓。所以這塊我們認為ADAS或是自駕車能夠更快導入公共運輸，一定可以提供更好的服務能量。"],["謝委員衣鳯：所以你也認為……"],["林次長國顯：認同。"],["謝委員衣鳯：那到底政府的政策有沒有訂？"],["林次長國顯：我們現在的任務就是用計畫來全力協助沙盒實驗，讓這些業者在沙盒實驗裡面排除既有法規的限制，把能力發揮出來，然後我們根據沙盒實驗的結果，回饋到修法過程，所以現在已經委託車安中心（VSCC）就沙盒實驗的過程有哪些議題，納入法規的調和跟修正，這是同步在作業，一旦車子能夠做得越快越好，我們就可以馬上修正法規來調整。"],["謝委員衣鳯：好。"],["林次長國顯：其實上次我們在桃機已經試過讓工研院的9人巴士完全用50公里的時速自動駕駛，然後自動做merging，就是匯流跟分流，所以目前9人巴士已經有這樣的能力，已經實驗完成，只是說落地過程，車子要能夠量產商業化符合既有法規，這些過程我們還要再處理。"],["謝委員衣鳯：這個部分你們進行得如何？"],["林次長國顯：我剛剛跟您報告，大概2年多前，已經有工研院的自駕9人巴士上路，目前大客車的部分還在研發試驗中，尤其我們有個計畫在淡水淡海新市鎮，這一類的成熟度越高，我們就能夠導入。"],["謝委員衣鳯：如果像我們彰化市呢？我們彰化市也是一個小型的繁華城市，對於公共運輸的……能不能做？因為你們都是在空曠的地區。"],["林次長國顯：是。"],["謝委員衣鳯：我們一定要考驗……我們那天去車測中心，郭部長，是不是也順便請你說一下，到底目前國家發展的方向是什麼？你們一定要給業者、民眾有確切的發展方向，到底是公共運輸系統，還是無人自駕車系統？要給所有的業者以及民眾有一個遵循的方向，也可以解決我們所有人的需求問題。"],["郭部長智輝：所以因為這樣子，才會利用沙盒的計畫來推動，這個牽扯到很多部門，基於安全，基於整個社會的安全，我想這個是第一個考慮啦，所以需要一點時間，請委員能夠了解。"],["謝委員衣鳯：那法規、法令啊，是不是？交通部的法規、法令要怎麼共同地合作啊？"],["郭部長智輝：對，這個需要等到計畫實驗成功以後，再來討論法規、法令的問題。"],["謝委員衣鳯：我們現在是要解決這整體的需要，不管是現在或者是未來，這是非常重要的需求，因為畢竟我們社會就是邁向這樣子的趨勢。"],["郭部長智輝：是。因為整個計畫還沒有完成之前就修法，可能會比較危險一點。"],["謝委員衣鳯：什麼時候計畫可以完成？"],["郭司長肇中：跟委員說明一下，目前我們大概有18個自駕案在沙盒試驗，目前最成功的是在台積電廠區，在14廠跟18廠之間做人員的運輸，累積了大概五萬多公里，我們跟交通部配合在這樣的數據蒐集過程中，交通部也應用在這個時間內在法規上訂定了指引，這就是針對安全的部分，我們會慢慢地推進。"],["謝委員衣鳯：郭部長你回答，交通部是不是太落後？"],["郭部長智輝：也沒有啦，我們都與時俱進。"],["謝委員衣鳯：交通部是不是太落後？林司長你回答。"],["郭部長智輝：交通部長坐我旁邊的啦，所以我們都馬上……"],["謝委員衣鳯：會不會太落後？"],["郭部長智輝：不會。"],["謝委員衣鳯：有沒有跟上科技的腳步？我們說要發展AI，如果AI的應用都沒有發展的情況下，怎麼樣提高AI的需求，是不是？"],["郭部長智輝：報告委員，我想我們還是基於安全，安全第一。"],["謝委員衣鳯：我當然知道安全第一。"],["郭部長智輝：成功了以後才可以來修法，在沒有成功之前，我們還是要儘量把安全的因素考慮進來，然後快速地讓它能夠成功。"],["謝委員衣鳯：我當然認為安全一定是唯一最重要的事情，但是……"],["郭部長智輝：我們現在借用AI以後，就會速度比較快一點。"],["謝委員衣鳯：但是我們要提高AI需求的時候就要相對地發展AI的應用，在發展AI應用的時候，你們是不是應該對於目前切身需要解決的問題加速進行？"],["郭部長智輝：是，我們會加速進行。"],["謝委員衣鳯：好。謝謝。"],["郭部長智輝：謝謝委員。"],["主席：謝謝謝衣鳯委員。"],["主席（謝委員衣鳯）：現在請呂玉玲詢答。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":396,"meet_id":"委員會-11-3-19-17","speakers":["謝衣鳯","陳亭妃","楊瓊瓔","張啓楷","鄭正鈐","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","呂玉玲","邱志偉","陳超明","賴瑞隆","李坤城","蔡易餘","翁曉玲","葉元之","謝龍介","邱鎮軍","張嘉郡","徐欣瑩","邱議瑩","翁曉玲"],"page_start":337,"meetingDate":["2025-06-23"],"gazette_id":"1146401","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1146401_00008"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期經濟委員會第17次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請經濟部部長、國家發展委員會主任委員、交通部首長及國家科學及技術委員會首長就「因應\n高齡化社會，我國智慧公共運具發展及目標」進行報告，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1146401_00007"}}}