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\"因為這個修法會涉及到包括法院的部分包括檢查體系包括社政包括教育包括警政有很多不同的主管機關其實它這個配合這個修法它都必須要同步的修訂一些相關規定所以我希望說你們這個應該要同步的修正這個少年保護官的手冊跟處遇的評估工具\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"因\", \"start\": 817.326, \"end\": 817.686, \"score\": 0.579}, {\"word\": \"為\"}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"修\", \"start\": 817.686, \"end\": 817.886, \"score\": 0.857}, {\"word\": \"法\", \"start\": 817.886, \"end\": 818.847, \"score\": 0.784}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"涉\", \"start\": 818.847, \"end\": 819.027, \"score\": 0.823}, {\"word\": \"及\", \"start\": 819.027, \"end\": 819.147, \"score\": 0.706}, {\"word\": \"到\", \"start\": 819.147, \"end\": 819.727, \"score\": 0.826}, {\"word\": \"包\", \"start\": 819.727, \"end\": 819.847, \"score\": 0.954}, {\"word\": \"括\", \"start\": 819.847, \"end\": 820.028, \"score\": 0.687}, {\"word\": \"法\", \"start\": 820.028, \"end\": 820.188, \"score\": 0.978}, {\"word\": \"院\", \"start\": 820.188, \"end\": 820.348, \"score\": 0.798}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 820.348, \"end\": 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0.0}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"應\"}, {\"word\": \"該\"}, {\"word\": \"要\", \"start\": 832.113, \"end\": 832.173, \"score\": 0.666}, {\"word\": \"同\", \"start\": 832.173, \"end\": 832.213, \"score\": 0.302}, {\"word\": \"步\", \"start\": 832.213, \"end\": 832.313, \"score\": 0.762}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 832.313, \"end\": 832.333, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"修\", \"start\": 832.333, \"end\": 832.373, \"score\": 0.497}, {\"word\": \"正\", \"start\": 832.373, \"end\": 832.394, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"少\", \"start\": 832.394, \"end\": 832.554, \"score\": 0.842}, {\"word\": \"年\", \"start\": 832.554, \"end\": 833.014, \"score\": 0.908}, {\"word\": \"保\", \"start\": 833.014, \"end\": 833.074, \"score\": 0.43}, {\"word\": \"護\"}, {\"word\": \"官\", \"start\": 833.074, \"end\": 833.174, \"score\": 0.791}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 833.174, \"end\": 833.214, \"score\": 0.416}, {\"word\": \"手\", \"start\": 833.214, \"end\": 833.234, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"冊\"}, {\"word\": \"跟\", \"start\": 833.234, \"end\": 833.254, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"處\"}, {\"word\": \"遇\", \"start\": 833.254, \"end\": 833.394, \"score\": 0.713}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 833.394, \"end\": 833.414, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"評\"}, {\"word\": \"估\", \"start\": 833.414, \"end\": 833.594, \"score\": 0.796}, {\"word\": \"工\", \"start\": 833.594, \"end\": 833.614, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"具\", \"start\": 833.614, \"end\": 833.634, \"score\": 0.0}]}, {\"start\": 841.818, \"end\": 857.167, \"text\": \"那也需要盤點相關的配套啦市長這部分因為我們準備要進行這樣的修正行政院會已經通過了我需要相關的配套跟委員報告齁因為這個少年事件處理法還有剛剛委員提到的少年保護官齁都是司法院的權責\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 841.818, \"end\": 842.378, \"score\": 0.962}, {\"word\": \"也\", \"start\": 842.378, \"end\": 842.879, \"score\": 0.995}, {\"word\": \"需\", \"start\": 842.879, \"end\": 843.019, \"score\": 0.993}, {\"word\": \"要\", \"start\": 843.019, \"end\": 843.939, 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853.405, \"end\": 853.525, \"score\": 0.83}, {\"word\": \"事\", \"start\": 853.525, \"end\": 853.745, \"score\": 0.908}, {\"word\": \"件\", \"start\": 853.745, \"end\": 853.865, \"score\": 0.833}, {\"word\": \"處\"}, {\"word\": \"理\", \"start\": 853.865, \"end\": 853.965, \"score\": 0.799}, {\"word\": \"法\", \"start\": 853.965, \"end\": 854.225, \"score\": 0.848}, {\"word\": \"還\"}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 854.225, \"end\": 854.585, \"score\": 0.886}, {\"word\": \"剛\"}, {\"word\": \"剛\"}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 854.585, \"end\": 854.765, \"score\": 0.882}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"提\", \"start\": 854.765, \"end\": 854.885, \"score\": 0.893}, {\"word\": \"到\", \"start\": 854.885, \"end\": 855.005, \"score\": 0.996}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 855.005, \"end\": 855.045, \"score\": 0.501}, {\"word\": \"少\", \"start\": 855.045, \"end\": 855.186, \"score\": 0.864}, {\"word\": \"年\", \"start\": 855.186, \"end\": 855.346, \"score\": 0.876}, {\"word\": \"保\", \"start\": 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00:01:00,303\n你有提到說我們將來是要廢止的是對那這個基本上齁這個行刑累進今天我們討論的主題就是行刑累進處遇條例的相關的這些規定現在這些這些累進處遇的這個機制那其實這個行刑累進處遇條例除了制度上問題其實已經\n\n3\n00:01:02,659 --> 00:01:29,262\n已經其實丟在放在那裡已經很久沒有都沒有進行修正了我們最後一次修正好像是2006年19年前做了修正以後就丟在那裡丟到然後放在那裡在制度繼續再用但是其實照理講就算在廢止之前也還有很多其實是應該要在廢止之前也要修正不過剛剛市長的意思是不是就是說我們現在就是\n\n4\n00:01:30,441 --> 00:01:48,515\n不管他有什麼問題他就放在那裡但是我們未來就是要等他廢止我們行政上可以處理的有一些部分其實不用動到修法用行政上面就可以處理但是還是有一些我們念法律的看了就有點刺眼的地方在第一條本法依照監獄刑刑法第20條\n\n5\n00:01:54,981 --> 00:02:17,448\n這個受累金處理者適用本條是規定齁那其實他應該是第18條第二項的這個授權啦齁那他就確實說這個立法他就說第20條如果我們這個法還要繼續用的話這一條我就覺得因為接應刑刑法在109年有大修過對啦有大修過但是這個沒有相對的修嘛當時沒有一併處理其實照理講我們現在就應該我如果要拼這個拼這個這個\n\n6\n00:02:21,030 --> 00:02:40,897\n這個國會評鑑我就應該要趕快再提一個按修法來這個但是我知道說我們法務部的態度基本上就是想要就是這個就不再修了就是把它等到它廢除廢止之前其他要改要改革的事項能夠用行政手段處理的都用行政規定去處理對不對那這個\n\n7\n00:02:42,324 --> 00:02:49,239\n所以我現在就回到說我們這個我們這個儲育機制的這個改革的方向我仔細看你們法務部的這個報告這個\n\n8\n00:02:52,816 --> 00:03:19,464\n其實這個有關於這個儲育機制的改革在2017年的司改會其實就有提到2017年司改會在這個這個第五分組裡面有關育成制度的改革其中第二次會議的決議裡面就在第四項就有提到說慎重考慮廢除累進儲育的制度這是司改會的這個但是我們看這個司改會這樣子的決議其實\n\n9\n00:03:21,598 --> 00:03:44,177\n他也不敢說應該要廢除啦他還是說應該慎重考慮那所以這個就是一個為什麼這樣寫齁其實這個累進廚藥的制度齁雖然說在第二次世界大戰之後很多大部分的國家都已經就是盡量的把這個累進廚藥的方式齁改成這個所謂膳食制啦齁這按照個別風險評估下去做齁\n\n10\n00:03:45,489 --> 00:04:02,616\n但是我們看到現在有實施這些風險評估機制的國家包括像是美國的德州、加州、加拿大、英國、日本這些國家他們其實都沒有像我們台灣現在這種就是這種超額收容的情況嚴重\n\n11\n00:04:04,395 --> 00:04:20,852\n還有有關於這個教化人員跟受刑人比例的懸殊了這部分是我們目前要廢除這個我們想要改革目前儲育機制最大的問題就在於我們目前我們的這個收容超額收容的情況很嚴重\n\n12\n00:04:22,250 --> 00:04:41,663\n那我們的這個教化人員跟受刑人比例也非常懸殊甚至缺額我們上個禮拜就討論這個目前缺額的狀況教化人員不足那這個相關的這些社工、心理背景的專業人員我們也幾乎都人數都付諸缺乳了所以\n\n13\n00:04:42,743 --> 00:05:08,494\n現在所以這也是為什麼私改會那時候說要慎重評估他也不敢做結論說我們應該就要廢止北京處理條例這是目前我們這些狀況但是我們也不能說因為這個狀況我們就繼續下去我們也就不改革了那我看這個2017年私改會之後我們這個在我們的報告裡面提到就是說我們也在\n\n14\n00:05:10,191 --> 00:05:32,253\n2018年2019年我們也分別就委託了中央警察大學委託了中正大學我們有做研究針對這個累進處理條約做研究研究一直到這個2022年我們提出了一個正式的回應再有看是我們2022年就是民國111年提出了一個深化受刑人個別處遇的實施計畫\n\n15\n00:05:33,649 --> 00:05:47,425\n就是說把過去的這個累進儲育我們未來我們在完全廢除累進儲育之前我們要我們先深化個別的儲育是不是這個方向是我們現在有在做對有啦齁那這個\n\n16\n00:05:48,986 --> 00:06:14,200\n這個部分就是我接下來要比較關注我們的這個個別儲育的計畫裡面我們把這個儲育方式我們把它有一個叫做個別儲育的三軸計畫這部分是不是請鄒組長來可能比較清楚就是說我們把這個受刑人在監獄儲育的期間應該受的繳制教育我們把它分成三種\n\n17\n00:06:15,340 --> 00:06:43,671\n一種是一般性的,一種是保護性的,一種是治療性的這個就是我按照你們的矯正期刊裡面還有你們的這個個別儲育這個深化的這個計畫的內容裡面找出來的就你們有把它分成三軸的儲育了那這個個別儲育的這個三軸計畫其實我整個看起來它最大的問題還是同樣跟剛才同樣的問題就是我們人力的配置\n\n18\n00:06:45,176 --> 00:07:08,602\n還有資源的落差還有風險的這個份額處遇能力的這些限制這是我們目前整個不用改革最大的問題這個像資源的落差我們現在這些我想知道說我們現在進行的這些包括社工、心理師、教化人力現在是不是足以支撐這套制度現有的\n\n19\n00:07:09,946 --> 00:07:37,955\n我們的新設人力我們近幾年有跟人總來爭取啦那人總也給我們核定從勞務承攬變成A用人員那明年我們會提出我們事辦之後的一個成效來再報行政會明年才會提出是不是這個本來就是我要問的就是你們實施你們的這個成效評估到底在哪裡明年明年初提出這些這個這個\n\n20\n00:07:40,537 --> 00:07:56,717\n這個評估包括你這些個別處遇之後的這些人他們的這個回歸社會之後我們要長期追蹤他的災犯率包括針對他復歸社會的適應情形我覺得這個都是應該是我們整個這個個別處遇實施之後的評估成效評估的重要的\n\n21\n00:07:57,658 --> 00:08:25,919\n是我們會綜合評估但是我們是以爭取新設人力為主因為我們的新設人力他不只是做這個所謂的個別處役他也有可能是會做毒品犯的處役性侵家暴處役都會協助這個部分就是我接下來大概會跟你比較深入的討論有關於治療性處役的部分尤其是毒品的部分\n\n22\n00:08:26,900 --> 00:08:39,335\n但是我在看到你們有實施一個示範一個我個人認為非常好那我也想知道它的成效跟你們推廣計畫就是我目前齁在這個台南第二監獄有示範這個受刑人個別處遇的自主管理卡\n\n23\n00:08:41,543 --> 00:08:56,628\n這個自主管理卡的這個計畫讓這個受刑人他在這個本於這個受刑人在他面對需要這些行政這個他能夠這個自主管理他的這個個別處遇的情況\n\n24\n00:08:57,848 --> 00:09:16,887\n讓受刑人能夠擔任自己專案的管理師讓這個教誨師轉化成一個督導的角色我個人認為說這個制度實施是非常好但是我知道現在好像只是在台南第二監獄裡面的業讀專班在實施是不是\n\n25\n00:09:22,234 --> 00:09:38,031\n有沒有要擴大到先不要說擴大到全國啦你再除了戒毒專辦是不是整個這個台南至少在台南第二監獄有沒有擴大報告委員這個部分是由南二監他自己去擬定計畫去試辦的\n\n26\n00:09:39,932 --> 00:09:52,177\n將來我們可以看到事辦完之後的結果請藍二間來我們署本部報告它的成效如何如果可以的話我們再來討論相關的擴大我要講的就是說不要說將來現在他們其實辦理這段時間已經有相當我個人認為有相當的成果是不是現在我們就來進行評估請他們現在就來報告他們辦理的\n\n27\n00:10:03,462 --> 00:10:22,898\n的狀況那是不是能夠擴大到能夠推廣到其他的全國的其他的地方我們是可以請他盡快來署裡面報告這個評估之後我希望你們三個月裡面提出報告不過三個月後署長已經退休了不過你們署裡面三個月提這個報告給我可以嗎因為我們要先確認他事辦的成效怎麼樣結果到什麼階段\n\n28\n00:10:29,864 --> 00:10:58,572\n第一個就是三個月的時間你們先了解他們現在示範的狀況是不是讓我們會後來了解實際的情況再跟委員回覆我就是要求三個月啦那你們你們去這三個月裡面你們去了解他現在示範的成效那去了解去評估他是不是有推廣的可能好不好那接下來我就是再講的就是剛剛所提到的這個有關毒品這個治療性處於裡面的這些毒品戒營的部分這個部分其實\n\n29\n00:10:59,983 --> 00:11:28,176\n其實這個我看到現在目前的統計我們的這個受刑人幾乎有將近四成都是這個毒品危害防治法也就是說我們如果不解這現在這個其實是很負擔很大這個到四成的受刑人都是因為這個毒品危害防治條例所以這個台灣毒品戒營的這種儲育體系他確實是有具是一個很大的挑戰他也是我們改革這個儲育機制的一個很重要的關鍵\n\n30\n00:11:29,617 --> 00:11:34,599\n但是我們目前全台的我們這些職能治療師還有相關的這些人力其實都不夠\n\n31\n00:11:41,223 --> 00:11:59,551\n我們在目前我們是希望說我們跟衛福部能夠有一個合作的機制跟平台那這個部分現在我們目前有沒有這樣的狀況有沒有跟衛福部就在我們自己人力這些職能治療人力不足的情況之下我們有沒有跟衛福部來合作有相關的機制嗎有相關的平台嗎\n\n32\n00:12:02,359 --> 00:12:23,917\n我們相關的毒品的處理包括之前所謂的減害計畫美沙東替代療法我們都有跟以前叫做衛生署現在衛福部來做合作我們目前也都有跟衛福部的相關司處來做相關的精進\n\n33\n00:12:25,443 --> 00:12:47,281\n這個部分其實他也會牽涉他除了這個人力不足以外他更也會牽涉到他處於的資源的分配不均你在都市跟在其他的縣市這個這些資源也會分配不均我希望說這些機制能夠建立起來台南你不解決這個問題你要所有處於機制的改革都會卡到因為有4成的受刑人士\n\n34\n00:12:48,622 --> 00:13:08,837\n是這些毒品防治法的這些受刑人所以這部分會是很關鍵最後我提一個這個上個禮拜但是大家社會上並沒有很注目但對我們來講是一個很重要的事情就是上個禮拜這個我們通過這個跟司法院會前之後通過少年事件處理法的這個修正\n\n35\n00:13:09,818 --> 00:13:36,266\n的修正啦齁那這個是行政院應該是行政院院會通過啦齁那這個基本上這整個少年事件處理法它這個修法的重點齁就是讓這個少年事件的這些處遇齁能夠它的保護處分齁它能夠轉換它之間有多元化它可以轉換機制啦齁這是第一個重點另外一個重點就是有關於檢討這個修正前案塗銷的一些相關規定啦齁\n\n36\n00:13:37,326 --> 00:13:53,634\n因為這個修法會涉及到包括法院的部分包括檢查體系包括社政包括教育包括警政有很多不同的主管機關其實它這個配合這個修法它都必須要同步的修訂一些相關規定所以我希望說你們這個應該要同步的修正這個少年保護官的手冊跟處遇的評估工具\n\n37\n00:14:01,818 --> 00:14:17,167\n那也需要盤點相關的配套啦市長這部分因為我們準備要進行這樣的修正行政院會已經通過了我需要相關的配套跟委員報告齁因為這個少年事件處理法還有剛剛委員提到的少年保護官齁都是司法院的權責\n\n38\n00:14:18,347 --> 00:14:24,470\n那所以我們會配合提出我們這邊你們這邊包括有一些相關的盤點要盤點你們相關的這些配套你們還是要進行這些配套的修正我們會提出來\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n9731\t30778\t主席我們請黃次長還有周署長周署長我也好次長好剛才在前面莊委員的質詢最後的時候有提到真的很巧就提到我接下來要談的問題剛才有提到說我們的有關行刑累進處遇條例\n38769\t60303\t你有提到說我們將來是要廢止的是對那這個基本上齁這個行刑累進今天我們討論的主題就是行刑累進處遇條例的相關的這些規定現在這些這些累進處遇的這個機制那其實這個行刑累進處遇條例除了制度上問題其實已經\n62659\t89262\t已經其實丟在放在那裡已經很久沒有都沒有進行修正了我們最後一次修正好像是2006年19年前做了修正以後就丟在那裡丟到然後放在那裡在制度繼續再用但是其實照理講就算在廢止之前也還有很多其實是應該要在廢止之前也要修正不過剛剛市長的意思是不是就是說我們現在就是\n90441\t108515\t不管他有什麼問題他就放在那裡但是我們未來就是要等他廢止我們行政上可以處理的有一些部分其實不用動到修法用行政上面就可以處理但是還是有一些我們念法律的看了就有點刺眼的地方在第一條本法依照監獄刑刑法第20條\n114981\t137448\t這個受累金處理者適用本條是規定齁那其實他應該是第18條第二項的這個授權啦齁那他就確實說這個立法他就說第20條如果我們這個法還要繼續用的話這一條我就覺得因為接應刑刑法在109年有大修過對啦有大修過但是這個沒有相對的修嘛當時沒有一併處理其實照理講我們現在就應該我如果要拼這個拼這個這個\n141030\t160897\t這個國會評鑑我就應該要趕快再提一個按修法來這個但是我知道說我們法務部的態度基本上就是想要就是這個就不再修了就是把它等到它廢除廢止之前其他要改要改革的事項能夠用行政手段處理的都用行政規定去處理對不對那這個\n162324\t169239\t所以我現在就回到說我們這個我們這個儲育機制的這個改革的方向我仔細看你們法務部的這個報告這個\n172816\t199464\t其實這個有關於這個儲育機制的改革在2017年的司改會其實就有提到2017年司改會在這個這個第五分組裡面有關育成制度的改革其中第二次會議的決議裡面就在第四項就有提到說慎重考慮廢除累進儲育的制度這是司改會的這個但是我們看這個司改會這樣子的決議其實\n201598\t224177\t他也不敢說應該要廢除啦他還是說應該慎重考慮那所以這個就是一個為什麼這樣寫齁其實這個累進廚藥的制度齁雖然說在第二次世界大戰之後很多大部分的國家都已經就是盡量的把這個累進廚藥的方式齁改成這個所謂膳食制啦齁這按照個別風險評估下去做齁\n225489\t242616\t但是我們看到現在有實施這些風險評估機制的國家包括像是美國的德州、加州、加拿大、英國、日本這些國家他們其實都沒有像我們台灣現在這種就是這種超額收容的情況嚴重\n244395\t260852\t還有有關於這個教化人員跟受刑人比例的懸殊了這部分是我們目前要廢除這個我們想要改革目前儲育機制最大的問題就在於我們目前我們的這個收容超額收容的情況很嚴重\n262250\t281663\t那我們的這個教化人員跟受刑人比例也非常懸殊甚至缺額我們上個禮拜就討論這個目前缺額的狀況教化人員不足那這個相關的這些社工、心理背景的專業人員我們也幾乎都人數都付諸缺乳了所以\n282743\t308494\t現在所以這也是為什麼私改會那時候說要慎重評估他也不敢做結論說我們應該就要廢止北京處理條例這是目前我們這些狀況但是我們也不能說因為這個狀況我們就繼續下去我們也就不改革了那我看這個2017年私改會之後我們這個在我們的報告裡面提到就是說我們也在\n310191\t332253\t2018年2019年我們也分別就委託了中央警察大學委託了中正大學我們有做研究針對這個累進處理條約做研究研究一直到這個2022年我們提出了一個正式的回應再有看是我們2022年就是民國111年提出了一個深化受刑人個別處遇的實施計畫\n333649\t347425\t就是說把過去的這個累進儲育我們未來我們在完全廢除累進儲育之前我們要我們先深化個別的儲育是不是這個方向是我們現在有在做對有啦齁那這個\n348986\t374200\t這個部分就是我接下來要比較關注我們的這個個別儲育的計畫裡面我們把這個儲育方式我們把它有一個叫做個別儲育的三軸計畫這部分是不是請鄒組長來可能比較清楚就是說我們把這個受刑人在監獄儲育的期間應該受的繳制教育我們把它分成三種\n375340\t403671\t一種是一般性的,一種是保護性的,一種是治療性的這個就是我按照你們的矯正期刊裡面還有你們的這個個別儲育這個深化的這個計畫的內容裡面找出來的就你們有把它分成三軸的儲育了那這個個別儲育的這個三軸計畫其實我整個看起來它最大的問題還是同樣跟剛才同樣的問題就是我們人力的配置\n405176\t428602\t還有資源的落差還有風險的這個份額處遇能力的這些限制這是我們目前整個不用改革最大的問題這個像資源的落差我們現在這些我想知道說我們現在進行的這些包括社工、心理師、教化人力現在是不是足以支撐這套制度現有的\n429946\t457955\t我們的新設人力我們近幾年有跟人總來爭取啦那人總也給我們核定從勞務承攬變成A用人員那明年我們會提出我們事辦之後的一個成效來再報行政會明年才會提出是不是這個本來就是我要問的就是你們實施你們的這個成效評估到底在哪裡明年明年初提出這些這個這個\n460537\t476717\t這個評估包括你這些個別處遇之後的這些人他們的這個回歸社會之後我們要長期追蹤他的災犯率包括針對他復歸社會的適應情形我覺得這個都是應該是我們整個這個個別處遇實施之後的評估成效評估的重要的\n477658\t505919\t是 我們會綜合評估但是我們是以爭取新設人力為主因為我們的新設人力他不只是做這個所謂的個別處役他也有可能是會做毒品犯的處役性侵家暴處役都會協助這個部分就是我接下來大概會跟你比較深入的討論有關於治療性處役的部分尤其是毒品的部分\n506900\t519335\t但是我在看到你們有實施一個示範一個我個人認為非常好那我也想知道它的成效跟你們推廣計畫就是我目前齁在這個台南第二監獄有示範這個受刑人個別處遇的自主管理卡\n521543\t536628\t這個自主管理卡的這個計畫讓這個受刑人他在這個本於這個受刑人在他面對需要這些行政這個他能夠這個自主管理他的這個個別處遇的情況\n537848\t556887\t讓受刑人能夠擔任自己專案的管理師讓這個教誨師轉化成一個督導的角色我個人認為說這個制度實施是非常好但是我知道現在好像只是在台南第二監獄裡面的業讀專班在實施是不是\n562234\t578031\t有沒有要擴大到先不要說擴大到全國啦你再除了戒毒專辦是不是整個這個台南至少在台南第二監獄有沒有擴大報告委員這個部分是由南二監他自己去擬定計畫去試辦的\n579932\t592177\t將來我們可以看到事辦完之後的結果請藍二間來我們署本部報告它的成效如何如果可以的話我們再來討論相關的擴大我要講的就是說不要說將來現在他們其實辦理這段時間已經有相當我個人認為有相當的成果是不是現在我們就來進行評估請他們現在就來報告他們辦理的\n603462\t622898\t的狀況那是不是能夠擴大到能夠推廣到其他的全國的其他的地方我們是可以請他盡快來署裡面報告這個評估之後我希望你們三個月裡面提出報告不過三個月後署長已經退休了不過你們署裡面三個月提這個報告給我可以嗎因為我們要先確認他事辦的成效怎麼樣結果到什麼階段\n629864\t658572\t第一個就是三個月的時間你們先了解他們現在示範的狀況是不是讓我們會後來了解實際的情況再跟委員回覆我就是要求三個月啦那你們你們去這三個月裡面你們去了解他現在示範的成效那去了解去評估他是不是有推廣的可能好不好那接下來我就是再講的就是剛剛所提到的這個有關毒品這個治療性處於裡面的這些毒品戒營的部分這個部分其實\n659983\t688176\t其實這個我看到現在目前的統計我們的這個受刑人幾乎有將近四成都是這個毒品危害防治法也就是說我們如果不解這現在這個其實是很負擔很大這個到四成的受刑人都是因為這個毒品危害防治條例所以這個台灣毒品戒營的這種儲育體系他確實是有具是一個很大的挑戰他也是我們改革這個儲育機制的一個很重要的關鍵\n689617\t694599\t但是我們目前全台的我們這些職能治療師還有相關的這些人力其實都不夠\n701223\t719551\t我們在目前我們是希望說我們跟衛福部能夠有一個合作的機制跟平台那這個部分現在我們目前有沒有這樣的狀況有沒有跟衛福部就在我們自己人力這些職能治療人力不足的情況之下我們有沒有跟衛福部來合作有相關的機制嗎有相關的平台嗎\n722359\t743917\t我們相關的毒品的處理 包括之前所謂的減害計畫美沙東替代療法 我們都有跟以前叫做衛生署 現在衛福部來做合作我們目前也都有跟衛福部的相關司處來做相關的精進\n745443\t767281\t這個部分其實他也會牽涉他除了這個人力不足以外他更也會牽涉到他處於的資源的分配不均你在都市跟在其他的縣市這個這些資源也會分配不均我希望說這些機制能夠建立起來台南你不解決這個問題你要所有處於機制的改革都會卡到因為有4成的受刑人士\n768622\t788837\t是這些毒品防治法的這些受刑人所以這部分會是很關鍵最後我提一個這個上個禮拜但是大家社會上並沒有很注目但對我們來講是一個很重要的事情就是上個禮拜這個我們通過這個跟司法院會前之後通過少年事件處理法的這個修正\n789818\t816266\t的修正啦齁那這個是行政院應該是行政院院會通過啦齁那這個基本上這整個少年事件處理法它這個修法的重點齁就是讓這個少年事件的這些處遇齁能夠它的保護處分齁它能夠轉換它之間有多元化它可以轉換機制啦齁這是第一個重點另外一個重點就是有關於檢討這個修正前案塗銷的一些相關規定啦齁\n817326\t833634\t因為這個修法會涉及到包括法院的部分包括檢查體系包括社政包括教育包括警政有很多不同的主管機關其實它這個配合這個修法它都必須要同步的修訂一些相關規定所以我希望說你們這個應該要同步的修正這個少年保護官的手冊跟處遇的評估工具\n841818\t857167\t那也需要盤點相關的配套啦市長這部分因為我們準備要進行這樣的修正行政院會已經通過了我需要相關的配套跟委員報告齁因為這個少年事件處理法還有剛剛委員提到的少年保護官齁都是司法院的權責\n858347\t864470\t那所以我們會配合提出我們這邊你們這邊包括有一些相關的盤點要盤點你們相關的這些配套你們還是要進行這些配套的修正我們會提出來\n","txt":"主席我們請黃次長還有周署長周署長我也好次長好剛才在前面莊委員的質詢最後的時候有提到真的很巧就提到我接下來要談的問題剛才有提到說我們的有關行刑累進處遇條例\n你有提到說我們將來是要廢止的是對那這個基本上齁這個行刑累進今天我們討論的主題就是行刑累進處遇條例的相關的這些規定現在這些這些累進處遇的這個機制那其實這個行刑累進處遇條例除了制度上問題其實已經\n已經其實丟在放在那裡已經很久沒有都沒有進行修正了我們最後一次修正好像是2006年19年前做了修正以後就丟在那裡丟到然後放在那裡在制度繼續再用但是其實照理講就算在廢止之前也還有很多其實是應該要在廢止之前也要修正不過剛剛市長的意思是不是就是說我們現在就是\n不管他有什麼問題他就放在那裡但是我們未來就是要等他廢止我們行政上可以處理的有一些部分其實不用動到修法用行政上面就可以處理但是還是有一些我們念法律的看了就有點刺眼的地方在第一條本法依照監獄刑刑法第20條\n這個受累金處理者適用本條是規定齁那其實他應該是第18條第二項的這個授權啦齁那他就確實說這個立法他就說第20條如果我們這個法還要繼續用的話這一條我就覺得因為接應刑刑法在109年有大修過對啦有大修過但是這個沒有相對的修嘛當時沒有一併處理其實照理講我們現在就應該我如果要拼這個拼這個這個\n這個國會評鑑我就應該要趕快再提一個按修法來這個但是我知道說我們法務部的態度基本上就是想要就是這個就不再修了就是把它等到它廢除廢止之前其他要改要改革的事項能夠用行政手段處理的都用行政規定去處理對不對那這個\n所以我現在就回到說我們這個我們這個儲育機制的這個改革的方向我仔細看你們法務部的這個報告這個\n其實這個有關於這個儲育機制的改革在2017年的司改會其實就有提到2017年司改會在這個這個第五分組裡面有關育成制度的改革其中第二次會議的決議裡面就在第四項就有提到說慎重考慮廢除累進儲育的制度這是司改會的這個但是我們看這個司改會這樣子的決議其實\n他也不敢說應該要廢除啦他還是說應該慎重考慮那所以這個就是一個為什麼這樣寫齁其實這個累進廚藥的制度齁雖然說在第二次世界大戰之後很多大部分的國家都已經就是盡量的把這個累進廚藥的方式齁改成這個所謂膳食制啦齁這按照個別風險評估下去做齁\n但是我們看到現在有實施這些風險評估機制的國家包括像是美國的德州、加州、加拿大、英國、日本這些國家他們其實都沒有像我們台灣現在這種就是這種超額收容的情況嚴重\n還有有關於這個教化人員跟受刑人比例的懸殊了這部分是我們目前要廢除這個我們想要改革目前儲育機制最大的問題就在於我們目前我們的這個收容超額收容的情況很嚴重\n那我們的這個教化人員跟受刑人比例也非常懸殊甚至缺額我們上個禮拜就討論這個目前缺額的狀況教化人員不足那這個相關的這些社工、心理背景的專業人員我們也幾乎都人數都付諸缺乳了所以\n現在所以這也是為什麼私改會那時候說要慎重評估他也不敢做結論說我們應該就要廢止北京處理條例這是目前我們這些狀況但是我們也不能說因為這個狀況我們就繼續下去我們也就不改革了那我看這個2017年私改會之後我們這個在我們的報告裡面提到就是說我們也在\n2018年2019年我們也分別就委託了中央警察大學委託了中正大學我們有做研究針對這個累進處理條約做研究研究一直到這個2022年我們提出了一個正式的回應再有看是我們2022年就是民國111年提出了一個深化受刑人個別處遇的實施計畫\n就是說把過去的這個累進儲育我們未來我們在完全廢除累進儲育之前我們要我們先深化個別的儲育是不是這個方向是我們現在有在做對有啦齁那這個\n這個部分就是我接下來要比較關注我們的這個個別儲育的計畫裡面我們把這個儲育方式我們把它有一個叫做個別儲育的三軸計畫這部分是不是請鄒組長來可能比較清楚就是說我們把這個受刑人在監獄儲育的期間應該受的繳制教育我們把它分成三種\n一種是一般性的,一種是保護性的,一種是治療性的這個就是我按照你們的矯正期刊裡面還有你們的這個個別儲育這個深化的這個計畫的內容裡面找出來的就你們有把它分成三軸的儲育了那這個個別儲育的這個三軸計畫其實我整個看起來它最大的問題還是同樣跟剛才同樣的問題就是我們人力的配置\n還有資源的落差還有風險的這個份額處遇能力的這些限制這是我們目前整個不用改革最大的問題這個像資源的落差我們現在這些我想知道說我們現在進行的這些包括社工、心理師、教化人力現在是不是足以支撐這套制度現有的\n我們的新設人力我們近幾年有跟人總來爭取啦那人總也給我們核定從勞務承攬變成A用人員那明年我們會提出我們事辦之後的一個成效來再報行政會明年才會提出是不是這個本來就是我要問的就是你們實施你們的這個成效評估到底在哪裡明年明年初提出這些這個這個\n這個評估包括你這些個別處遇之後的這些人他們的這個回歸社會之後我們要長期追蹤他的災犯率包括針對他復歸社會的適應情形我覺得這個都是應該是我們整個這個個別處遇實施之後的評估成效評估的重要的\n是 我們會綜合評估但是我們是以爭取新設人力為主因為我們的新設人力他不只是做這個所謂的個別處役他也有可能是會做毒品犯的處役性侵家暴處役都會協助這個部分就是我接下來大概會跟你比較深入的討論有關於治療性處役的部分尤其是毒品的部分\n但是我在看到你們有實施一個示範一個我個人認為非常好那我也想知道它的成效跟你們推廣計畫就是我目前齁在這個台南第二監獄有示範這個受刑人個別處遇的自主管理卡\n這個自主管理卡的這個計畫讓這個受刑人他在這個本於這個受刑人在他面對需要這些行政這個他能夠這個自主管理他的這個個別處遇的情況\n讓受刑人能夠擔任自己專案的管理師讓這個教誨師轉化成一個督導的角色我個人認為說這個制度實施是非常好但是我知道現在好像只是在台南第二監獄裡面的業讀專班在實施是不是\n有沒有要擴大到先不要說擴大到全國啦你再除了戒毒專辦是不是整個這個台南至少在台南第二監獄有沒有擴大報告委員這個部分是由南二監他自己去擬定計畫去試辦的\n將來我們可以看到事辦完之後的結果請藍二間來我們署本部報告它的成效如何如果可以的話我們再來討論相關的擴大我要講的就是說不要說將來現在他們其實辦理這段時間已經有相當我個人認為有相當的成果是不是現在我們就來進行評估請他們現在就來報告他們辦理的\n的狀況那是不是能夠擴大到能夠推廣到其他的全國的其他的地方我們是可以請他盡快來署裡面報告這個評估之後我希望你們三個月裡面提出報告不過三個月後署長已經退休了不過你們署裡面三個月提這個報告給我可以嗎因為我們要先確認他事辦的成效怎麼樣結果到什麼階段\n第一個就是三個月的時間你們先了解他們現在示範的狀況是不是讓我們會後來了解實際的情況再跟委員回覆我就是要求三個月啦那你們你們去這三個月裡面你們去了解他現在示範的成效那去了解去評估他是不是有推廣的可能好不好那接下來我就是再講的就是剛剛所提到的這個有關毒品這個治療性處於裡面的這些毒品戒營的部分這個部分其實\n其實這個我看到現在目前的統計我們的這個受刑人幾乎有將近四成都是這個毒品危害防治法也就是說我們如果不解這現在這個其實是很負擔很大這個到四成的受刑人都是因為這個毒品危害防治條例所以這個台灣毒品戒營的這種儲育體系他確實是有具是一個很大的挑戰他也是我們改革這個儲育機制的一個很重要的關鍵\n但是我們目前全台的我們這些職能治療師還有相關的這些人力其實都不夠\n我們在目前我們是希望說我們跟衛福部能夠有一個合作的機制跟平台那這個部分現在我們目前有沒有這樣的狀況有沒有跟衛福部就在我們自己人力這些職能治療人力不足的情況之下我們有沒有跟衛福部來合作有相關的機制嗎有相關的平台嗎\n我們相關的毒品的處理 包括之前所謂的減害計畫美沙東替代療法 我們都有跟以前叫做衛生署 現在衛福部來做合作我們目前也都有跟衛福部的相關司處來做相關的精進\n這個部分其實他也會牽涉他除了這個人力不足以外他更也會牽涉到他處於的資源的分配不均你在都市跟在其他的縣市這個這些資源也會分配不均我希望說這些機制能夠建立起來台南你不解決這個問題你要所有處於機制的改革都會卡到因為有4成的受刑人士\n是這些毒品防治法的這些受刑人所以這部分會是很關鍵最後我提一個這個上個禮拜但是大家社會上並沒有很注目但對我們來講是一個很重要的事情就是上個禮拜這個我們通過這個跟司法院會前之後通過少年事件處理法的這個修正\n的修正啦齁那這個是行政院應該是行政院院會通過啦齁那這個基本上這整個少年事件處理法它這個修法的重點齁就是讓這個少年事件的這些處遇齁能夠它的保護處分齁它能夠轉換它之間有多元化它可以轉換機制啦齁這是第一個重點另外一個重點就是有關於檢討這個修正前案塗銷的一些相關規定啦齁\n因為這個修法會涉及到包括法院的部分包括檢查體系包括社政包括教育包括警政有很多不同的主管機關其實它這個配合這個修法它都必須要同步的修訂一些相關規定所以我希望說你們這個應該要同步的修正這個少年保護官的手冊跟處遇的評估工具\n那也需要盤點相關的配套啦市長這部分因為我們準備要進行這樣的修正行政院會已經通過了我需要相關的配套跟委員報告齁因為這個少年事件處理法還有剛剛委員提到的少年保護官齁都是司法院的權責\n那所以我們會配合提出我們這邊你們這邊包括有一些相關的盤點要盤點你們相關的這些配套你們還是要進行這些配套的修正我們會提出來\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:09.731 --> 00:30.778\n主席我們請黃次長還有周署長周署長我也好次長好剛才在前面莊委員的質詢最後的時候有提到真的很巧就提到我接下來要談的問題剛才有提到說我們的有關行刑累進處遇條例\n\n00:38.769 --> 01:00.303\n你有提到說我們將來是要廢止的是對那這個基本上齁這個行刑累進今天我們討論的主題就是行刑累進處遇條例的相關的這些規定現在這些這些累進處遇的這個機制那其實這個行刑累進處遇條例除了制度上問題其實已經\n\n01:02.659 --> 01:29.262\n已經其實丟在放在那裡已經很久沒有都沒有進行修正了我們最後一次修正好像是2006年19年前做了修正以後就丟在那裡丟到然後放在那裡在制度繼續再用但是其實照理講就算在廢止之前也還有很多其實是應該要在廢止之前也要修正不過剛剛市長的意思是不是就是說我們現在就是\n\n01:30.441 --> 01:48.515\n不管他有什麼問題他就放在那裡但是我們未來就是要等他廢止我們行政上可以處理的有一些部分其實不用動到修法用行政上面就可以處理但是還是有一些我們念法律的看了就有點刺眼的地方在第一條本法依照監獄刑刑法第20條\n\n01:54.981 --> 02:17.448\n這個受累金處理者適用本條是規定齁那其實他應該是第18條第二項的這個授權啦齁那他就確實說這個立法他就說第20條如果我們這個法還要繼續用的話這一條我就覺得因為接應刑刑法在109年有大修過對啦有大修過但是這個沒有相對的修嘛當時沒有一併處理其實照理講我們現在就應該我如果要拼這個拼這個這個\n\n02:21.030 --> 02:40.897\n這個國會評鑑我就應該要趕快再提一個按修法來這個但是我知道說我們法務部的態度基本上就是想要就是這個就不再修了就是把它等到它廢除廢止之前其他要改要改革的事項能夠用行政手段處理的都用行政規定去處理對不對那這個\n\n02:42.324 --> 02:49.239\n所以我現在就回到說我們這個我們這個儲育機制的這個改革的方向我仔細看你們法務部的這個報告這個\n\n02:52.816 --> 03:19.464\n其實這個有關於這個儲育機制的改革在2017年的司改會其實就有提到2017年司改會在這個這個第五分組裡面有關育成制度的改革其中第二次會議的決議裡面就在第四項就有提到說慎重考慮廢除累進儲育的制度這是司改會的這個但是我們看這個司改會這樣子的決議其實\n\n03:21.598 --> 03:44.177\n他也不敢說應該要廢除啦他還是說應該慎重考慮那所以這個就是一個為什麼這樣寫齁其實這個累進廚藥的制度齁雖然說在第二次世界大戰之後很多大部分的國家都已經就是盡量的把這個累進廚藥的方式齁改成這個所謂膳食制啦齁這按照個別風險評估下去做齁\n\n03:45.489 --> 04:02.616\n但是我們看到現在有實施這些風險評估機制的國家包括像是美國的德州、加州、加拿大、英國、日本這些國家他們其實都沒有像我們台灣現在這種就是這種超額收容的情況嚴重\n\n04:04.395 --> 04:20.852\n還有有關於這個教化人員跟受刑人比例的懸殊了這部分是我們目前要廢除這個我們想要改革目前儲育機制最大的問題就在於我們目前我們的這個收容超額收容的情況很嚴重\n\n04:22.250 --> 04:41.663\n那我們的這個教化人員跟受刑人比例也非常懸殊甚至缺額我們上個禮拜就討論這個目前缺額的狀況教化人員不足那這個相關的這些社工、心理背景的專業人員我們也幾乎都人數都付諸缺乳了所以\n\n04:42.743 --> 05:08.494\n現在所以這也是為什麼私改會那時候說要慎重評估他也不敢做結論說我們應該就要廢止北京處理條例這是目前我們這些狀況但是我們也不能說因為這個狀況我們就繼續下去我們也就不改革了那我看這個2017年私改會之後我們這個在我們的報告裡面提到就是說我們也在\n\n05:10.191 --> 05:32.253\n2018年2019年我們也分別就委託了中央警察大學委託了中正大學我們有做研究針對這個累進處理條約做研究研究一直到這個2022年我們提出了一個正式的回應再有看是我們2022年就是民國111年提出了一個深化受刑人個別處遇的實施計畫\n\n05:33.649 --> 05:47.425\n就是說把過去的這個累進儲育我們未來我們在完全廢除累進儲育之前我們要我們先深化個別的儲育是不是這個方向是我們現在有在做對有啦齁那這個\n\n05:48.986 --> 06:14.200\n這個部分就是我接下來要比較關注我們的這個個別儲育的計畫裡面我們把這個儲育方式我們把它有一個叫做個別儲育的三軸計畫這部分是不是請鄒組長來可能比較清楚就是說我們把這個受刑人在監獄儲育的期間應該受的繳制教育我們把它分成三種\n\n06:15.340 --> 06:43.671\n一種是一般性的,一種是保護性的,一種是治療性的這個就是我按照你們的矯正期刊裡面還有你們的這個個別儲育這個深化的這個計畫的內容裡面找出來的就你們有把它分成三軸的儲育了那這個個別儲育的這個三軸計畫其實我整個看起來它最大的問題還是同樣跟剛才同樣的問題就是我們人力的配置\n\n06:45.176 --> 07:08.602\n還有資源的落差還有風險的這個份額處遇能力的這些限制這是我們目前整個不用改革最大的問題這個像資源的落差我們現在這些我想知道說我們現在進行的這些包括社工、心理師、教化人力現在是不是足以支撐這套制度現有的\n\n07:09.946 --> 07:37.955\n我們的新設人力我們近幾年有跟人總來爭取啦那人總也給我們核定從勞務承攬變成A用人員那明年我們會提出我們事辦之後的一個成效來再報行政會明年才會提出是不是這個本來就是我要問的就是你們實施你們的這個成效評估到底在哪裡明年明年初提出這些這個這個\n\n07:40.537 --> 07:56.717\n這個評估包括你這些個別處遇之後的這些人他們的這個回歸社會之後我們要長期追蹤他的災犯率包括針對他復歸社會的適應情形我覺得這個都是應該是我們整個這個個別處遇實施之後的評估成效評估的重要的\n\n07:57.658 --> 08:25.919\n是我們會綜合評估但是我們是以爭取新設人力為主因為我們的新設人力他不只是做這個所謂的個別處役他也有可能是會做毒品犯的處役性侵家暴處役都會協助這個部分就是我接下來大概會跟你比較深入的討論有關於治療性處役的部分尤其是毒品的部分\n\n08:26.900 --> 08:39.335\n但是我在看到你們有實施一個示範一個我個人認為非常好那我也想知道它的成效跟你們推廣計畫就是我目前齁在這個台南第二監獄有示範這個受刑人個別處遇的自主管理卡\n\n08:41.543 --> 08:56.628\n這個自主管理卡的這個計畫讓這個受刑人他在這個本於這個受刑人在他面對需要這些行政這個他能夠這個自主管理他的這個個別處遇的情況\n\n08:57.848 --> 09:16.887\n讓受刑人能夠擔任自己專案的管理師讓這個教誨師轉化成一個督導的角色我個人認為說這個制度實施是非常好但是我知道現在好像只是在台南第二監獄裡面的業讀專班在實施是不是\n\n09:22.234 --> 09:38.031\n有沒有要擴大到先不要說擴大到全國啦你再除了戒毒專辦是不是整個這個台南至少在台南第二監獄有沒有擴大報告委員這個部分是由南二監他自己去擬定計畫去試辦的\n\n09:39.932 --> 09:52.177\n將來我們可以看到事辦完之後的結果請藍二間來我們署本部報告它的成效如何如果可以的話我們再來討論相關的擴大我要講的就是說不要說將來現在他們其實辦理這段時間已經有相當我個人認為有相當的成果是不是現在我們就來進行評估請他們現在就來報告他們辦理的\n\n10:03.462 --> 10:22.898\n的狀況那是不是能夠擴大到能夠推廣到其他的全國的其他的地方我們是可以請他盡快來署裡面報告這個評估之後我希望你們三個月裡面提出報告不過三個月後署長已經退休了不過你們署裡面三個月提這個報告給我可以嗎因為我們要先確認他事辦的成效怎麼樣結果到什麼階段\n\n10:29.864 --> 10:58.572\n第一個就是三個月的時間你們先了解他們現在示範的狀況是不是讓我們會後來了解實際的情況再跟委員回覆我就是要求三個月啦那你們你們去這三個月裡面你們去了解他現在示範的成效那去了解去評估他是不是有推廣的可能好不好那接下來我就是再講的就是剛剛所提到的這個有關毒品這個治療性處於裡面的這些毒品戒營的部分這個部分其實\n\n10:59.983 --> 11:28.176\n其實這個我看到現在目前的統計我們的這個受刑人幾乎有將近四成都是這個毒品危害防治法也就是說我們如果不解這現在這個其實是很負擔很大這個到四成的受刑人都是因為這個毒品危害防治條例所以這個台灣毒品戒營的這種儲育體系他確實是有具是一個很大的挑戰他也是我們改革這個儲育機制的一個很重要的關鍵\n\n11:29.617 --> 11:34.599\n但是我們目前全台的我們這些職能治療師還有相關的這些人力其實都不夠\n\n11:41.223 --> 11:59.551\n我們在目前我們是希望說我們跟衛福部能夠有一個合作的機制跟平台那這個部分現在我們目前有沒有這樣的狀況有沒有跟衛福部就在我們自己人力這些職能治療人力不足的情況之下我們有沒有跟衛福部來合作有相關的機制嗎有相關的平台嗎\n\n12:02.359 --> 12:23.917\n我們相關的毒品的處理包括之前所謂的減害計畫美沙東替代療法我們都有跟以前叫做衛生署現在衛福部來做合作我們目前也都有跟衛福部的相關司處來做相關的精進\n\n12:25.443 --> 12:47.281\n這個部分其實他也會牽涉他除了這個人力不足以外他更也會牽涉到他處於的資源的分配不均你在都市跟在其他的縣市這個這些資源也會分配不均我希望說這些機制能夠建立起來台南你不解決這個問題你要所有處於機制的改革都會卡到因為有4成的受刑人士\n\n12:48.622 --> 13:08.837\n是這些毒品防治法的這些受刑人所以這部分會是很關鍵最後我提一個這個上個禮拜但是大家社會上並沒有很注目但對我們來講是一個很重要的事情就是上個禮拜這個我們通過這個跟司法院會前之後通過少年事件處理法的這個修正\n\n13:09.818 --> 13:36.266\n的修正啦齁那這個是行政院應該是行政院院會通過啦齁那這個基本上這整個少年事件處理法它這個修法的重點齁就是讓這個少年事件的這些處遇齁能夠它的保護處分齁它能夠轉換它之間有多元化它可以轉換機制啦齁這是第一個重點另外一個重點就是有關於檢討這個修正前案塗銷的一些相關規定啦齁\n\n13:37.326 --> 13:53.634\n因為這個修法會涉及到包括法院的部分包括檢查體系包括社政包括教育包括警政有很多不同的主管機關其實它這個配合這個修法它都必須要同步的修訂一些相關規定所以我希望說你們這個應該要同步的修正這個少年保護官的手冊跟處遇的評估工具\n\n14:01.818 --> 14:17.167\n那也需要盤點相關的配套啦市長這部分因為我們準備要進行這樣的修正行政院會已經通過了我需要相關的配套跟委員報告齁因為這個少年事件處理法還有剛剛委員提到的少年保護官齁都是司法院的權責\n\n14:18.347 --> 14:24.470\n那所以我們會配合提出我們這邊你們這邊包括有一些相關的盤點要盤點你們相關的這些配套你們還是要進行這些配套的修正我們會提出來\n\n","segments":[{"start":9.731,"end":30.778,"text":"主席我們請黃次長還有周署長周署長我也好次長好剛才在前面莊委員的質詢最後的時候有提到真的很巧就提到我接下來要談的問題剛才有提到說我們的有關行刑累進處遇條例"},{"start":38.769,"end":60.303,"text":"你有提到說我們將來是要廢止的是對那這個基本上齁這個行刑累進今天我們討論的主題就是行刑累進處遇條例的相關的這些規定現在這些這些累進處遇的這個機制那其實這個行刑累進處遇條例除了制度上問題其實已經"},{"start":62.659,"end":89.262,"text":"已經其實丟在放在那裡已經很久沒有都沒有進行修正了我們最後一次修正好像是2006年19年前做了修正以後就丟在那裡丟到然後放在那裡在制度繼續再用但是其實照理講就算在廢止之前也還有很多其實是應該要在廢止之前也要修正不過剛剛市長的意思是不是就是說我們現在就是"},{"start":90.441,"end":108.515,"text":"不管他有什麼問題他就放在那裡但是我們未來就是要等他廢止我們行政上可以處理的有一些部分其實不用動到修法用行政上面就可以處理但是還是有一些我們念法律的看了就有點刺眼的地方在第一條本法依照監獄刑刑法第20條"},{"start":114.981,"end":137.448,"text":"這個受累金處理者適用本條是規定齁那其實他應該是第18條第二項的這個授權啦齁那他就確實說這個立法他就說第20條如果我們這個法還要繼續用的話這一條我就覺得因為接應刑刑法在109年有大修過對啦有大修過但是這個沒有相對的修嘛當時沒有一併處理其實照理講我們現在就應該我如果要拼這個拼這個這個"},{"start":141.03,"end":160.897,"text":"這個國會評鑑我就應該要趕快再提一個按修法來這個但是我知道說我們法務部的態度基本上就是想要就是這個就不再修了就是把它等到它廢除廢止之前其他要改要改革的事項能夠用行政手段處理的都用行政規定去處理對不對那這個"},{"start":162.324,"end":169.239,"text":"所以我現在就回到說我們這個我們這個儲育機制的這個改革的方向我仔細看你們法務部的這個報告這個"},{"start":172.816,"end":199.464,"text":"其實這個有關於這個儲育機制的改革在2017年的司改會其實就有提到2017年司改會在這個這個第五分組裡面有關育成制度的改革其中第二次會議的決議裡面就在第四項就有提到說慎重考慮廢除累進儲育的制度這是司改會的這個但是我們看這個司改會這樣子的決議其實"},{"start":201.598,"end":224.177,"text":"他也不敢說應該要廢除啦他還是說應該慎重考慮那所以這個就是一個為什麼這樣寫齁其實這個累進廚藥的制度齁雖然說在第二次世界大戰之後很多大部分的國家都已經就是盡量的把這個累進廚藥的方式齁改成這個所謂膳食制啦齁這按照個別風險評估下去做齁"},{"start":225.489,"end":242.616,"text":"但是我們看到現在有實施這些風險評估機制的國家包括像是美國的德州、加州、加拿大、英國、日本這些國家他們其實都沒有像我們台灣現在這種就是這種超額收容的情況嚴重"},{"start":244.395,"end":260.852,"text":"還有有關於這個教化人員跟受刑人比例的懸殊了這部分是我們目前要廢除這個我們想要改革目前儲育機制最大的問題就在於我們目前我們的這個收容超額收容的情況很嚴重"},{"start":262.25,"end":281.663,"text":"那我們的這個教化人員跟受刑人比例也非常懸殊甚至缺額我們上個禮拜就討論這個目前缺額的狀況教化人員不足那這個相關的這些社工、心理背景的專業人員我們也幾乎都人數都付諸缺乳了所以"},{"start":282.743,"end":308.494,"text":"現在所以這也是為什麼私改會那時候說要慎重評估他也不敢做結論說我們應該就要廢止北京處理條例這是目前我們這些狀況但是我們也不能說因為這個狀況我們就繼續下去我們也就不改革了那我看這個2017年私改會之後我們這個在我們的報告裡面提到就是說我們也在"},{"start":310.191,"end":332.253,"text":"2018年2019年我們也分別就委託了中央警察大學委託了中正大學我們有做研究針對這個累進處理條約做研究研究一直到這個2022年我們提出了一個正式的回應再有看是我們2022年就是民國111年提出了一個深化受刑人個別處遇的實施計畫"},{"start":333.649,"end":347.425,"text":"就是說把過去的這個累進儲育我們未來我們在完全廢除累進儲育之前我們要我們先深化個別的儲育是不是這個方向是我們現在有在做對有啦齁那這個"},{"start":348.986,"end":374.2,"text":"這個部分就是我接下來要比較關注我們的這個個別儲育的計畫裡面我們把這個儲育方式我們把它有一個叫做個別儲育的三軸計畫這部分是不是請鄒組長來可能比較清楚就是說我們把這個受刑人在監獄儲育的期間應該受的繳制教育我們把它分成三種"},{"start":375.34,"end":403.671,"text":"一種是一般性的,一種是保護性的,一種是治療性的這個就是我按照你們的矯正期刊裡面還有你們的這個個別儲育這個深化的這個計畫的內容裡面找出來的就你們有把它分成三軸的儲育了那這個個別儲育的這個三軸計畫其實我整個看起來它最大的問題還是同樣跟剛才同樣的問題就是我們人力的配置"},{"start":405.176,"end":428.602,"text":"還有資源的落差還有風險的這個份額處遇能力的這些限制這是我們目前整個不用改革最大的問題這個像資源的落差我們現在這些我想知道說我們現在進行的這些包括社工、心理師、教化人力現在是不是足以支撐這套制度現有的"},{"start":429.946,"end":457.955,"text":"我們的新設人力我們近幾年有跟人總來爭取啦那人總也給我們核定從勞務承攬變成A用人員那明年我們會提出我們事辦之後的一個成效來再報行政會明年才會提出是不是這個本來就是我要問的就是你們實施你們的這個成效評估到底在哪裡明年明年初提出這些這個這個"},{"start":460.537,"end":476.717,"text":"這個評估包括你這些個別處遇之後的這些人他們的這個回歸社會之後我們要長期追蹤他的災犯率包括針對他復歸社會的適應情形我覺得這個都是應該是我們整個這個個別處遇實施之後的評估成效評估的重要的"},{"start":477.658,"end":505.919,"text":"是 我們會綜合評估但是我們是以爭取新設人力為主因為我們的新設人力他不只是做這個所謂的個別處役他也有可能是會做毒品犯的處役性侵家暴處役都會協助這個部分就是我接下來大概會跟你比較深入的討論有關於治療性處役的部分尤其是毒品的部分"},{"start":506.9,"end":519.335,"text":"但是我在看到你們有實施一個示範一個我個人認為非常好那我也想知道它的成效跟你們推廣計畫就是我目前齁在這個台南第二監獄有示範這個受刑人個別處遇的自主管理卡"},{"start":521.543,"end":536.628,"text":"這個自主管理卡的這個計畫讓這個受刑人他在這個本於這個受刑人在他面對需要這些行政這個他能夠這個自主管理他的這個個別處遇的情況"},{"start":537.848,"end":556.887,"text":"讓受刑人能夠擔任自己專案的管理師讓這個教誨師轉化成一個督導的角色我個人認為說這個制度實施是非常好但是我知道現在好像只是在台南第二監獄裡面的業讀專班在實施是不是"},{"start":562.234,"end":578.031,"text":"有沒有要擴大到先不要說擴大到全國啦你再除了戒毒專辦是不是整個這個台南至少在台南第二監獄有沒有擴大報告委員這個部分是由南二監他自己去擬定計畫去試辦的"},{"start":579.932,"end":592.177,"text":"將來我們可以看到事辦完之後的結果請藍二間來我們署本部報告它的成效如何如果可以的話我們再來討論相關的擴大我要講的就是說不要說將來現在他們其實辦理這段時間已經有相當我個人認為有相當的成果是不是現在我們就來進行評估請他們現在就來報告他們辦理的"},{"start":603.462,"end":622.898,"text":"的狀況那是不是能夠擴大到能夠推廣到其他的全國的其他的地方我們是可以請他盡快來署裡面報告這個評估之後我希望你們三個月裡面提出報告不過三個月後署長已經退休了不過你們署裡面三個月提這個報告給我可以嗎因為我們要先確認他事辦的成效怎麼樣結果到什麼階段"},{"start":629.864,"end":658.572,"text":"第一個就是三個月的時間你們先了解他們現在示範的狀況是不是讓我們會後來了解實際的情況再跟委員回覆我就是要求三個月啦那你們你們去這三個月裡面你們去了解他現在示範的成效那去了解去評估他是不是有推廣的可能好不好那接下來我就是再講的就是剛剛所提到的這個有關毒品這個治療性處於裡面的這些毒品戒營的部分這個部分其實"},{"start":659.983,"end":688.176,"text":"其實這個我看到現在目前的統計我們的這個受刑人幾乎有將近四成都是這個毒品危害防治法也就是說我們如果不解這現在這個其實是很負擔很大這個到四成的受刑人都是因為這個毒品危害防治條例所以這個台灣毒品戒營的這種儲育體系他確實是有具是一個很大的挑戰他也是我們改革這個儲育機制的一個很重要的關鍵"},{"start":689.617,"end":694.599,"text":"但是我們目前全台的我們這些職能治療師還有相關的這些人力其實都不夠"},{"start":701.223,"end":719.551,"text":"我們在目前我們是希望說我們跟衛福部能夠有一個合作的機制跟平台那這個部分現在我們目前有沒有這樣的狀況有沒有跟衛福部就在我們自己人力這些職能治療人力不足的情況之下我們有沒有跟衛福部來合作有相關的機制嗎有相關的平台嗎"},{"start":722.359,"end":743.917,"text":"我們相關的毒品的處理 包括之前所謂的減害計畫美沙東替代療法 我們都有跟以前叫做衛生署 現在衛福部來做合作我們目前也都有跟衛福部的相關司處來做相關的精進"},{"start":745.443,"end":767.281,"text":"這個部分其實他也會牽涉他除了這個人力不足以外他更也會牽涉到他處於的資源的分配不均你在都市跟在其他的縣市這個這些資源也會分配不均我希望說這些機制能夠建立起來台南你不解決這個問題你要所有處於機制的改革都會卡到因為有4成的受刑人士"},{"start":768.622,"end":788.837,"text":"是這些毒品防治法的這些受刑人所以這部分會是很關鍵最後我提一個這個上個禮拜但是大家社會上並沒有很注目但對我們來講是一個很重要的事情就是上個禮拜這個我們通過這個跟司法院會前之後通過少年事件處理法的這個修正"},{"start":789.818,"end":816.266,"text":"的修正啦齁那這個是行政院應該是行政院院會通過啦齁那這個基本上這整個少年事件處理法它這個修法的重點齁就是讓這個少年事件的這些處遇齁能夠它的保護處分齁它能夠轉換它之間有多元化它可以轉換機制啦齁這是第一個重點另外一個重點就是有關於檢討這個修正前案塗銷的一些相關規定啦齁"},{"start":817.326,"end":833.634,"text":"因為這個修法會涉及到包括法院的部分包括檢查體系包括社政包括教育包括警政有很多不同的主管機關其實它這個配合這個修法它都必須要同步的修訂一些相關規定所以我希望說你們這個應該要同步的修正這個少年保護官的手冊跟處遇的評估工具"},{"start":841.818,"end":857.167,"text":"那也需要盤點相關的配套啦市長這部分因為我們準備要進行這樣的修正行政院會已經通過了我需要相關的配套跟委員報告齁因為這個少年事件處理法還有剛剛委員提到的少年保護官齁都是司法院的權責"},{"start":858.347,"end":864.47,"text":"那所以我們會配合提出我們這邊你們這邊包括有一些相關的盤點要盤點你們相關的這些配套你們還是要進行這些配套的修正我們會提出來"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":663,"blocks":[["沈委員發惠：（10時46分）主席，請黃次長、周署長。"],["主席：請黃次長、周署長。"],["黃次長世杰：委員好。"],["沈委員發惠：次長好。前面莊委員質詢最後提到的部分，真的很巧，就是我接下來要談的問題。剛才提到有關行刑累進處遇條例，你說這個將來要廢止？"],["黃次長世杰：是。"],["沈委員發惠：基本上我們今天討論的主題就是行刑累進處遇條例的相關規定，也就是現行累進處遇的機制，事實上，行刑累進處遇條例除了制度上的問題，也已經放在那邊很久而沒有進行修正，最後一次修正好像是2006年，19年前修正以後，就丟在那裡、放在那裡，制度繼續在用，其實照理講，就算廢止之前也還有很多要修正的地方，不過剛剛次長的意思好像現在就是不管它有什麼問題，就放在那裡，但未來我們就是要廢止？"],["黃次長世杰：行政上可以處理的，已經有部分……"],["沈委員發惠：對，有一些部分其實不用動到修法，行政上就可以處理，但是還是有一些讓我們念法律的人看了有點刺眼的地方，譬如第一條，第一條「依監獄行刑法第二十條受累進處遇者，適用本條例之規定。」其實它應該是第十八條第二項的授權，但這個立法卻說是第二十條，如果這個法還要繼續用的話，這一條我覺得……"],["黃次長世杰：因為監獄行刑法在109年有大修過，可能是因為這樣……"],["沈委員發惠：對啦！有大修過，但這個沒有相對修正……"],["黃次長世杰：是，當時沒有一併處理。"],["沈委員發惠：照理講，如果我要拼國會評鑑，應該趕快再提一個案來修法，但我知道法務部的態度，基本上這就不再修了，就是等到它被廢除、廢止，其他要改革的事項，能夠用行政手段處理的，都用行政規定處理了，對不對？"],["黃次長世杰：是。"],["沈委員發惠：好，現在我們就回到處遇機制改革的方向，我仔細看了法務部的報告，有關處遇機制的改革，2017年的司改會就有提到；2017年司改會第五分組有關獄政制度改革小組，在第二次會議的決議第四項提到：慎重考慮廢除累進處遇制度。這是司改會的決議，我們看司改會這樣的決議，其實它也不敢寫說應該要廢除，也只是說應該慎重考慮，為什麼？其實第二次世界大戰之後，雖然大部分國家都已經儘量把累進處遇方式改成所謂善時制，就是按照個別風險去評估，但是我們看到這些有實施風險評估機制的國家，包括美國德州、加州，加拿大、英國、日本等，他們其實並沒有像我們臺灣現在這種嚴重超額收容的情形，還有教化人員和受刑人比例懸殊的問題。我們目前想要改革處遇機制最大的問題，就在於我們超額收容的情況很嚴重，而且教化人員和受刑人比例也非常懸殊，甚至還有缺額，上個禮拜我們就有討論到目前缺額的狀況，包括教化人員不足，以及相關社工、心理背景專業人員，我們也幾乎都付諸闕如，這也是為什麼司改會那時候說要慎重評估，而不敢就此做下結論建議應該廢止累進處遇條例，這是我們目前的狀況。","不過，我們也不能因為有這樣的狀況就繼續下去，就不改革了，我看到在2017年司改會之後，你們的報告裡也提到在2018年、2019年分別委託了中央警察大學、中正大學針對累進處遇條例進行研議，一直到2022年才提出一個正式回應，也就是在民國111年提出「深化受刑人個別處遇實施計畫」，就是針對過去的累進處遇，在未來完全廢除累進處遇之前，先深化個別處遇，是不是這個方向？"],["黃次長世杰：是，我們現在有在做。"],["沈委員發惠：有啦！這就是接下來我比較關心的部分，我們的個別處遇計畫，針對受刑人，有一個叫做個別處遇的三軸計畫，這部分是不是請周署長回應比較清楚？就是我們把受刑人在監獄處遇的期間，應該受的矯治教育分成三種：一種是一般性、一種是保護性、一種是治療性……"],["周署長輝煌：嗯、嗯。"],["沈委員發惠：這是我從你們的矯正期刊和個別處遇深化計畫的內容找出來的，就是你們把它分成三軸處遇，針對這個個別處遇三軸計畫，我整個看起來，最大的問題還是跟剛才提到的問題一樣，就是人力配置、資源落差，還有風險分類與處遇能力的限制，這就是我們目前整個改革最大的問題。以資源落差為例，我想知道的是，現在進行的方式，包括現有社工、心理師、教化人力，是不是足以支撐這套制度？"],["周署長輝煌：我們的新設人力，近幾年有跟人總爭取，人總也核定我們從勞務承攬變成約用人員，明年我們會提出試辦之後的成效再報行政院。"],["沈委員發惠：明年才會提出，是不是？"],["周署長輝煌：明年、明年要提出。"],["沈委員發惠：這也是本來我要問的，就是你們實施成效的評估到底在哪裡？"],["周署長輝煌：明年初會提出。"],["沈委員發惠：這個評估包括個別處遇之後，這些人回歸社會後，我們要長期追蹤他的再犯率，還有他復歸社會的適應情形，我覺得這些都是整個個別處遇實施之後成效評估的重要內容。"],["周署長輝煌：是，我們會綜合評估，但是我們是以爭取新設人力為主，因為我們新設的人力，不只做所謂的個別處遇，它也有可能做毒品犯的處遇，性侵、家暴處遇都會協助。"],["沈委員發惠：接下來我要跟你討論比較深入的部分，有關治療性處遇部分，尤其是毒品部分，你們有實施一個試辦計畫，我個人認為非常好，所以我也想知道它的成效跟你們的推廣計畫，就是目前在臺南第二監獄有試辦受刑人個別處遇的自主管理卡，自主管理卡的這個計畫是讓教誨師在處理受刑人業務所需面對行政措施力有未逮時，受刑人能夠自主管理自身個別處遇的情況，讓受刑人能夠擔任自身管理師，等於自己擔任自己專案的管理師，讓教誨師轉化成一個督導的角色，我個人認為這個制度的實施是非常好，但是我知道現在好像只是在臺南第二監獄裡面的戒毒專班在實施，是不是？"],["周署長輝煌：是。"],["沈委員發惠：有沒有要擴大？先不要說擴大到全國，除了戒毒專班以外，至少在臺南第二監獄，有沒有擴大的計畫？"],["周署長輝煌：報告委員，這個部分是由南二監自己去擬訂計畫試辦的，將來我們可以看它試辦完之後的結果，請南二監來我們署本部報告它的成效如何……"],["沈委員發惠：不要將來了，現在就進行，好不好？"],["周署長輝煌：如果可以，我們再來討論相關的擴大。"],["沈委員發惠：署長，我要講的是，不要說將來了，其實他們辦理這段時間，我個人認為已經有相當的成果，是不是現在就來進行評估，請他們現在就來報告辦理的狀況，是不是能夠推廣到全國其他的地方？"],["周署長輝煌：是，我們是可以請他們儘快來署裡面報告。"],["沈委員發惠：評估之後，我希望你們三個月內提出報告，不過三個月後署長已經退休了，請矯正署三個月提這個報告給我，可以嗎？請次長督導一下。"],["周署長輝煌：因為我們要先確認它試辦的成效怎麼樣、結果到什麼階段了……"],["沈委員發惠：對，所以有給你三個月的時間，第一個就是三個月時間，你們先了解他們現在試辦的狀況……"],["周署長輝煌：是不是容我們會後來了解實際的情況，再跟委員回復。"],["沈委員發惠：好，我就是要求三個月，你們在這三個月裡面去了解它現在試辦的成效，去了解、去評估它是不是有推廣的可能。"],["周署長輝煌：是，好的。"],["沈委員發惠：接下來，我要再講的就是剛剛所提到的，有關治療性處遇裡面的這些毒品戒癮的部分，這個部分其實我看到目前的統計，我們的受刑人幾乎有將近四成都是涉及到毒品危害防制條例，這個其實負擔很大，四成的受刑人都是因為毒品危害防制條例，所以臺灣毒品戒癮處遇體系確實是一個很大的挑戰，也是我們改革處遇機制一個很重要的關鍵，但是我們目前全臺的這些職能治療師，還有相關的這些人力其實都不夠，我們是希望跟衛福部能夠有一個合作的機制跟平臺，這個部分現在我們有沒有這樣的狀況？我們自己在這些職能治療人力不足的情況之下，我們有沒有跟衛福部合作？有相關的機制嗎？有相關的平臺嗎？"],["周署長輝煌：報告委員，我們相關的毒品處遇，包括之前所謂的減害計畫、美沙東替代療法，我們都有跟以前的衛生署、現在的衛福部來做合作，我們目前也都有跟衛福部相關司處來做相關的精進。"],["沈委員發惠：這個部分，其實除了人力不足以外，也會牽涉到處遇資源的分配不均，在都市跟在其他的縣市，這些資源也會分配不均，我希望這些機制能夠建立起來，如果不解決這個問題，所有處遇機制的改革都會卡到，因為有四成的受刑人是毒品危害防制條例的這些受刑人嘛！這個部分會是很關鍵的。","最後我提一件事，社會上並沒有很矚目，但是對我們來講，是一個很重要的事情，上個禮拜我們跟司法院會銜之後，通過少年事件處理法的修正，這個應該是行政院院會通過的，基本上這整個少年事件處理法的修法重點，就是讓少年事件的這些處遇，它的保護處分能夠轉換，之間有多元化，可以視少年需求有轉換機制，這是第一個重點。另外一個重點就是有關於檢討修正前案塗銷的一些相關規定，因為這個修法會涉及到包括法院的部分、包括檢察體系、包括社政、包括教育、包括警政，有很多不同的主管機關，其實為了配合這個修法都必須要同步修訂有關少年的一些相關規定，所以我希望你們要同步修正少年保護官的手冊跟處遇的評估工具，也需要盤點相關的配套。次長，這個部分因為我們準備要進行這樣的修正，行政院院會已經通過了，我希望能夠盤點相關的配套。"],["黃次長世杰：跟委員報告，少年事件處理法還有剛剛委員提到的少年保護官都是司法院的權責……"],["沈委員發惠：我知道。"],["黃次長世杰：所以我們會配合提出我們這邊觀察到的需求……"],["沈委員發惠：你們法務部有一些部分要盤點你們相關的這些配套，你們還是要進行這些配套的修正，好不好？"],["黃次長世杰：好，我們會提出來，謝謝。"],["沈委員發惠：好，以上。"],["主席：謝謝沈發惠委員。","接下來請吳思瑤委員詢答。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":230,"meet_id":"委員會-11-3-36-21","speakers":["莊瑞雄","王義川","黃國昌","林倩綺","陳培瑜","羅智強","沈發惠","吳思瑤","翁曉玲","王鴻薇","吳宗憲","楊瓊瓔","蘇清泉"],"page_start":173,"meetingDate":["2025-06-23"],"gazette_id":"1146201","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1146201_00010"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期司法及法制委員會第21次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請法務部部長、法務部矯正署署長、司法院及衛生福利部就「現行獄政與受刑人處遇機制之制\n度檢討」進行專題報告，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1146201_00011"}}}