{"id":162774,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/162774","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/b58c4cf52db2e91a849b7bfdee90f7ccb9483b76f331b600da6ae3643212cc5f9aab6c45daf424f65ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"蘇清泉","委員發言時間":"10:50:45 - 11:05:24","影片長度":"00:14:39","會議時間":"2025-06-23T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第3會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第18次全體委員會議（事由：一、審查\n（一）委員劉建國等17人擬具「老人福利法第四十八條條文修正草案」案。\n（二）台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「老人福利法第四十八條條文修正草案」案。\n二、審查\n  委員許宇甄等18人、委員邱鎮軍等19人、委員林月琴等17人、委員陳菁徽等18人、台灣民眾黨黨團、委員范雲等17人、委員邱若華等17人【提案第11006882號】、委員魯明哲等19人、委員傅崐萁等24人、委員洪孟楷等17人、委員邱若華等17人【提案第11010755號】分別擬具「身心障礙者權益保障法第五十三條條文修正草案」等11案。\n三、審查\n（一）委員范雲等17人、委員何欣純等17人、委員羅廷瑋等16人、委員廖偉翔等19人、委員陳菁徽等16人、委員羅美玲等16人、委員劉建國等17人分別擬具「身心障礙者權益保障法部分條文修正草案」等7案。\n（二）委員郭昱晴等19人擬具「身心障礙者權益保障法第十六條條文修正草案」案。\n（三）委員陳冠廷等16人擬具「身心障礙者權益保障法第三十八條條文修正草案」案。\n（四）委員陳冠廷等20人擬具「身心障礙者權益保障法第二條、第五十三條及第九十九條條文修正草案」案。\n（五）委員徐富癸等18人擬具「身心障礙者權益保障法第十條條文修正草案」案。\n（六）委員黃捷等17人擬具「身心障礙者權益保障法第七十一條條文修正草案」案。\n（七）委員王鴻薇等20人擬具「身心障礙者權益保障法增訂第四十條之一條文草案」案。\n（八）委員柯志恩等18人擬具「身心障礙者權益保障法增訂第四十條之一條文草案」案。\n（九）委員柯志恩等17人擬具「身心障礙者權益保障法第六十條之一條文修正草案」案。\n（十）委員馬文君等19人擬具「身心障礙者權益保障法第三十條之一、第五十條及第五十二條條文修正草案」案。\n（十一）委員廖偉翔等21人擬具「身心障礙者權益保障法增訂第五十條之一條文草案」案。\n（十二）委員林楚茵等20人擬具「身心障礙者權益保障法第十條條文修正草案」案。\n（十三）委員洪孟楷等18人擬具「身心障礙者權益保障法增訂第四十條之一條文草案」案。\n（十四）委員陳俊宇等18人擬具「身心障礙者權益保障法第七十一條條文修正草案」案。\n（十五）委員林楚茵等17人擬具「身心障礙者權益保障法第七十一條條文修正草案」案。\n（十六）委員劉建國等17人擬具「身心障礙者權益保障法第七十一條條文修正草案」案。\n（十七）委員邱若華等17人擬具「身心障礙者權益保障法第七十一條條文修正草案」案。\n【第一案至第三案採綜合詢答；本日僅處理第一案及第二案。】\n【6月23日、25日及26日三天一次會】）","type":"Clip","date":"2025-06-23","start_time":"2025-06-23T10:50:45+08:00","end_time":"2025-06-23T11:05:24+08:00","duration":879,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第3會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第18次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":3,"sessionTimes":18,"committees":[26],"id":"委員會-11-3-26-18"},"features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"transcript":{"id":"162774","pyannote":{"name":"ronny","tool":"pyannote","data":{"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/162774","tool":"pyannote","id":"162774-pyannote"},"job_id":"VGNd18cFBld84pRA","queued_at":"2025-06-23 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\"score\": 0.956}, {\"word\": \"意\", \"start\": 870.286, \"end\": 870.826, \"score\": 0.921}, {\"word\": \"見\"}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 870.826, \"end\": 871.767, \"score\": 0.911}, {\"word\": \"樣\"}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 871.767, \"end\": 872.827, \"score\": 0.953}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 872.827, \"end\": 873.127, \"score\": 0.871}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"大\", \"start\": 873.127, \"end\": 873.267, \"score\": 0.852}, {\"word\": \"家\", \"start\": 873.267, \"end\": 873.407, \"score\": 0.89}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 873.407, \"end\": 873.487, \"score\": 0.763}, {\"word\": \"起\", \"start\": 873.487, \"end\": 873.607, \"score\": 0.852}, {\"word\": \"努\", \"start\": 873.607, \"end\": 873.747, \"score\": 0.857}, {\"word\": \"力\", \"start\": 873.747, \"end\": 873.847, \"score\": 0.819}, {\"word\": \"啦\", \"start\": 873.847, \"end\": 873.867, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"感\", \"start\": 873.867, \"end\": 873.887, \"score\": 0.005}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 876.584, \"end\": 876.604, \"score\": 0.008}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:00,069 --> 00:00:07,478\n謝謝主席,我請部長跟次長\n\n2\n00:00:20,113 --> 00:00:42,179\n今天這簡單要用兩條第一條就是平健制度的老人福利法48條另外一個是實境障礙者保障法53條就是不愛做我很詳細的聽每一位委員部長本身也當過召委都知道我先問\n\n3\n00:00:43,857 --> 00:00:50,864\n你老了,你會想住安養院嗎?市長你有想要住嗎?我才一陣子沒去想到這個問題\n\n4\n00:00:57,236 --> 00:01:15,486\n我覺得醫療人員好像沒有什麼退休年齡我事實上我這幾年從第八屆、第九屆、第十屆、現在十一屆第八屆我們先搞那個長照服務法到現在我跑北歐跑哪裡都看了我總歸一個結論日本比較跟我們比較貼切所以日本這個制度比較貼切那北歐那是看送的而已\n\n5\n00:01:26,618 --> 00:01:51,098\n因為要吃大菜之類的我跟部長講我們看了日本名古屋到處看也跟他們詳細討論現在日本的安養院像我們去看八王子區看哪裡有其中一家就是差不多差不多,裡面蠻溫馨的硬體設備也不錯\n\n6\n00:01:52,722 --> 00:02:20,544\n他們的私人房他們借物保險在我看的時候就已經一年借物保險的費用就10兆日幣10兆日幣喔,這合台幣也多少那日本政府挨挨救啊從安倍的時代就想把借物保險跟醫療保險把它mix在一起結果搞到現在好像也沒有,還是分開那是怎樣?你覺得有什麼原因?\n\n7\n00:02:21,807 --> 00:02:33,877\n因為兩個姓氏不一樣他們的四人房,我看那間是他的床位有三百七十幾床然後有一個醫師,退休的醫師就來這邊當院民\n\n8\n00:02:39,057 --> 00:03:01,629\n請說要當住院的醫生那他住不用錢還可以拿一點薪水那裡面的護理師也是一樣退休之後就住在那邊當院民要順便當護理師我覺得這個很好這個老的照顧更老的我們現在就是在推這個嘛儲存時數等等那都很難\n\n9\n00:03:04,729 --> 00:03:25,021\n這裏的護理師老,就直接做,做到不做,我覺得這樣很好,我們大陸可能搞不好會這樣啦,我也要把我們屏東那裏的護理師,或是醫生、衛生所退休,我說你們倆要怎麼辦?公共醫師要遵守H65,所以退休,隔天就在我們法人上班了。\n\n10\n00:03:25,939 --> 00:03:53,129\n那護理師也是一樣的退休之後就在那邊有的當志工有的當那個在廠商在那邊做我覺得布朗的話你找不到人啦所以布朗這個是可以考量的那他們的私人房一年的一個月差不多合台幣差不多三萬六三萬七差不多啊沒差不多啊那兩人房差不多五萬二左右我都講台幣齁那單人房\n\n11\n00:03:54,726 --> 00:04:10,994\n7萬多塊政府付的差不多3萬多塊這樣如果去看歐洲不可能的事情我跟你講赫爾辛基在芬蘭我們去看還有去瑞典瑞典首都那個叫什麼斯德哥摩\n\n12\n00:04:14,127 --> 00:04:23,650\n你知道那個安養院安養院喔他一個月政府付給那個業者一個月一個人付差不多24萬台幣一個月喔然後如果是精神科的那些不處理是這樣一個月付35萬台幣給吼我說我們的安養機構如果一個月付25萬我大家都叫爸爸大家都這樣吼\n\n13\n00:04:41,704 --> 00:05:00,473\n不可能我們付不起嘛,因為所得稅60%所得稅所以我們要去學費,那個是亂搞啦,不要講那個那現在回到日本這邊他的住宿機構提供的房數也差不多三成而已那間三百多層的安養機構,外面白堆買一百,八百多\n\n14\n00:05:10,571 --> 00:05:32,078\n死一個補一個,死一個補一個所以人家老人家,我在民國有看,都在家比較多因為冬天他們又冷,那他們的日本人的習性跟我們台灣人又不太一樣台灣人的嘻嘻嘩嘩,老人家說我唱歌跳舞,我唱什麼比較不會失智啊,對不對?那不是啊,都一口吐一口大吐,看電視死在家裡面,五天,沒人知道\n\n15\n00:05:37,409 --> 00:05:46,392\n所以他們的社工雜貨都一直在卡電話而已,他們都外面不想出來,所以他們的時薪跟我們看不一樣所以長壽,然後又不喜歡出來,又天氣又冷所以我們台灣這個是蠻適合,我們老人會要叫他們出來啊,我覺得那個都非常好但是咧,我們的長照機構,大陸人第一次一個月補六千、八千、補一萬嘛,現在一萬嗎?\n\n16\n00:06:03,086 --> 00:06:27,493\n要一個要三萬多塊你補一萬所以你的費用是遠遠不足啦所以團團王一鳴在說你現在那個規模是太少了啦所以如果長照保險在第八屆我們我跟那個劉建國王一鳴我們都努力過但是那個時候有反對所以那個推不過那現在應該如果他的規模越來越長到3.0\n\n17\n00:06:29,774 --> 00:06:45,108\n規模越大事實上是要考量今天這個老人福利法這個評鑑制度因為很多來陳情我想每個人都談過了我也在開過協調會醫院評鑑以前也是優等特優、優等、合格、不合格\n\n18\n00:06:53,697 --> 00:06:58,420\n不然就改成合格不合格這樣比較簡單啦你常常在這裡熬午飯吃一餅丁又休等那個是以前\n\n19\n00:07:06,680 --> 00:07:33,565\n該換護理事項的評鑑也是用合格不合格還是兩套標準現在是怎樣市長感受一下來那個委員報告啦我也知道現在大家都覺得說這樣一國多製我的委員報告所以我們現在提出的就是說我們現在就是全部一致就把它區分成合格跟不合格我們就不區分成甲乙丙丁我們就是在這個部分我們來來朝這個方我們就是確定啦\n\n20\n00:07:34,125 --> 00:07:53,505\n也確定啦那就是用這個方向這樣比較簡單你像說他的簡單易行這樣讓大家好做事情來時間用來好好照顧我們的東北這樣比較重要對啦對啦這樣就感謝謝謝再來就是這個身心障礙者保護保障法這個不愛做這個現在要開始優先做董隊你還有意見\n\n21\n00:07:55,582 --> 00:08:08,889\n這以前我們在武衛村,我們是10%一個車廂裡面要10%現在不然又提高到20%15%喔?我每天都在坐高鐵,我每天通勤的那高鐵剛才沒人坐,沒有要坐的人沒人坐,大家拍攝就去坐所以有時候年輕人坐在裡面,老的來,他老的不要老的,要幫忙怎麼樣\n\n22\n00:08:22,321 --> 00:08:40,321\n常常看到糾紛,所以你現在該做什麼?PrioritySeat,優先洗優先洗,就是說反應的什麼都可以嘛就是說有需要的啦,按照有需要的,有的人表面上看好好,其實他是生病的啦,會有慢性病的\n\n23\n00:08:43,664 --> 00:09:08,099\n主席不要煩惱,今天這兩條,簡單啦其他的骨肉骨粟的不用我請罵啦有什麼請助理請什麼,那比較有課稅啦那要花錢啦,市長、部長,那要花很多錢我們會站在人民的需求上為最高點然後整個國家的一個財政...你現在住在那個機構安養的,現在有10萬床\n\n24\n00:09:11,241 --> 00:09:15,962\n那十萬床如果一個月補一萬塊,現在如果叫你補兩萬塊,你就倒了就幾十億了,所以我們要量力而為啦好,最後一個問題我要問你,失智現在這兩天有夠嚴重,我自己的表姐、三個都一直下去現在65歲,以上失智的有35萬人\n\n25\n00:09:37,404 --> 00:09:40,926\n65%是PRECIS,DEMENTIA,超過了多少?有65%是對的?15%我們早期15%,所以委員關心的是失智症的新藥液體\n\n26\n00:09:57,079 --> 00:10:08,968\n65歲以上比較Dementia65歲以下是Prescina我講的沒錯吧Prescina有多少人這裡35萬這裡呢跟65歲以上比起來大概15-20%以台灣的數據所以就是35萬就乘以15-20%所以早發性的差不多也有7-8萬人那是很多\n\n27\n00:10:24,949 --> 00:10:31,558\n那你現在這個藥用打的開始打了智慧這個藥是用每個禮拜打還是怎樣\n\n28\n00:10:32,561 --> 00:11:00,405\n跟委員報告這個藥在美國是去年7月才上市那目前是這個我都在做精準的評估那台灣大概是今天在亞東醫院會開打還是用自費來做那它是需要在失智症的非常早期這是第一個條件第二個條件是說它的那個AppleE4必須要陰性因為如果是AppleE陽性的話它比較容易腦水腫那第三個部分是財務評估我們時事處長已經對外講了所以這個部分要啟動這個HDA來做評估那是每個月打一次還是\n\n29\n00:11:00,945 --> 00:11:25,540\n目前有兩個藥提出申請因為我不能透露是哪個藥那其中一種藥是每個月打那後續還要追蹤MRI看他那個Amyloid的這個Plague他有沒有清楚就是那個類蛋白的這個堆積堆積有沒有清楚以上沒有清楚所以有的一個月打一次有的是打一支冬季的藥對有兩週的有一個月的但是因為我\n\n30\n00:11:31,168 --> 00:11:43,504\n因為我不能透露是哪一個有申請抱歉沒關係啦我們人苦事要人來做我覺得我在看我們這些親戚還有我們看到這個林院長林院長第八屆的時候站在那邊被質詢\n\n31\n00:11:45,084 --> 00:11:50,707\n我就看他比較內向,跟他很熟,你也很熟靈智營我更熟,我也是這個靈智營就比較厲害靈智營是點柱柱所以我看內向的人,精神科內向的人比較會中點柱柱的人\n\n32\n00:12:02,688 --> 00:12:29,836\n每天花謝罵人的人,我看待會兒目前的研究,人格特質跟失智症的發生比較沒有關係,跟基因跟環境後天生活習慣關係性比較大,以上補充所以是類蛋白的堆積,AMLOID的堆積在涅涅的地方,是不是?目前兩個學理論,一個是AMLOID的堆積就類蛋白,另外一個是Tauprotein的堆積,那目前兩個理論都有在用,兩個都有藥物研發,以上\n\n33\n00:12:30,336 --> 00:12:57,764\n所以你這個藥是要清除那個類蛋白在腦部的堆積現在是這樣嗎?是所以喔好那要做基因的類型什麼藥嗎?是要做基因的檢測主要是為了副作用擔心他這個藥物引起的腦水腫那目前美國的研究是有33%所以排除了那個相關的基因型他腦水腫的副作用會比較小主要是為了病人安全以上補充所以我覺得每一個人都要保持頭腦動一動\n\n34\n00:12:59,984 --> 00:13:21,091\n打麻將啦,找人吵架啦,這個也是有效,所以普通話,每天找你學妹,你就不會好歹啦這個很嚴重,我覺得非常非常嚴重,太多啦有的是輕輕的,有的是越來越嚴重,所以看了都很怕,所以這個要出來真的是福音啦\n\n35\n00:13:22,409 --> 00:13:48,162\n智慧健保不給物柏定首先我們要評估他本土的資料這個也很重要我想因為我們要驗證他的效果然後再評估一個財務的benefit跟burden這樣子就是利弊得失那我覺得照顧失智我們要多元化趙偉你說的\n\n36\n00:13:50,447 --> 00:14:04,915\n腦筋要多動多運動要瘦薄一點營養精衡可能這個都是可以預防的那政府在這個部分不管是在工廠中心據點那這個部分都有都已經有準備其實那一種\n\n37\n00:14:06,257 --> 00:14:33,887\n你做專研會意思說專研會是我們辦很多長照開始訓練人臉訓練所以那個時候的題目就叫做失智的一個計畫表示一日十當中我們就要去關心未來的照顧但是那是後面我個人覺得怎麼樣早期來診斷早期來預防可能也是一個重點跟趙偉的意見一樣好我們大家一起努力啦謝謝感謝謝謝\n\n38\n00:14:36,584 --> 00:14:36,604\n好謝謝\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n69\t7478\t謝謝主席,我請部長跟次長\n20113\t42179\t今天這簡單要用兩條第一條就是平健制度的老人福利法48條另外一個是實境障礙者保障法53條就是不愛做我很詳細的聽每一位委員部長本身也當過召委都知道我先問\n43857\t50864\t你老了,你會想住安養院嗎?市長你有想要住嗎?我才一陣子沒去想到這個問題\n57236\t75486\t我覺得醫療人員好像沒有什麼退休年齡我事實上我這幾年從第八屆、第九屆、第十屆、現在十一屆第八屆我們先搞那個長照服務法到現在我跑北歐跑哪裡都看了我總歸一個結論日本比較跟我們比較貼切所以日本這個制度比較貼切那北歐那是看送的而已\n86618\t111098\t因為要吃大菜之類的我跟部長講我們看了日本名古屋到處看也跟他們詳細討論現在日本的安養院像我們去看八王子區看哪裡有其中一家就是差不多差不多,裡面蠻溫馨的硬體設備也不錯\n112722\t140544\t他們的私人房他們借物保險在我看的時候就已經一年借物保險的費用就10兆日幣10兆日幣喔,這合台幣也多少那日本政府挨挨救啊從安倍的時代就想把借物保險跟醫療保險把它mix在一起結果搞到現在好像也沒有,還是分開那是怎樣?你覺得有什麼原因?\n141807\t153877\t因為兩個姓氏不一樣他們的四人房,我看那間是他的床位有三百七十幾床然後有一個醫師,退休的醫師就來這邊當院民\n159057\t181629\t請說要當住院的醫生那他住不用錢還可以拿一點薪水那裡面的護理師也是一樣退休之後就住在那邊當院民要順便當護理師我覺得這個很好這個老的 照顧更老的我們現在就是在推這個嘛儲存時數等等那都很難\n184729\t205021\t這裏的護理師老,就直接做,做到不做,我覺得這樣很好,我們大陸可能搞不好會這樣啦,我也要把我們屏東那裏的護理師,或是醫生、衛生所退休,我說你們倆要怎麼辦?公共醫師要遵守H65,所以退休,隔天就在我們法人上班了。\n205939\t233129\t那護理師也是一樣的退休之後就在那邊有的當志工有的當那個在廠商在那邊做我覺得布朗的話你找不到人啦所以布朗這個是可以考量的那他們的私人房一年的一個月差不多合台幣差不多三萬六三萬七差不多啊沒差不多啊那兩人房差不多五萬二左右我都講台幣齁那單人房\n234726\t250994\t7萬多塊政府付的差不多3萬多塊這樣如果去看歐洲不可能的事情我跟你講赫爾辛基在芬蘭我們去看還有去瑞典瑞典首都那個叫什麼斯德哥摩\n254127\t263650\t你知道那個安養院 安養院喔他一個月政府付給那個業者一個月一個人 付差不多24萬台幣一個月喔然後如果是精神科的那些不處理是這樣一個月付35萬台幣給吼 我說我們的安養機構如果一個月付25萬 我大家都叫爸爸大家都這樣吼\n281704\t300473\t不可能我們付不起嘛,因為所得稅60%所得稅所以我們要去學費,那個是亂搞啦,不要講那個那現在回到日本這邊他的住宿機構提供的房數也差不多三成而已那間三百多層的安養機構,外面白堆買一百,八百多\n310571\t332078\t死一個補一個,死一個補一個所以人家老人家,我在民國有看,都在家比較多因為冬天他們又冷,那他們的日本人的習性跟我們台灣人又不太一樣台灣人的嘻嘻嘩嘩,老人家說我唱歌跳舞,我唱什麼比較不會失智啊,對不對?那不是啊,都一口吐一口大吐,看電視死在家裡面,五天,沒人知道\n337409\t346392\t所以他們的社工雜貨都一直在卡電話而已,他們都外面不想出來,所以他們的時薪跟我們看不一樣所以長壽,然後又不喜歡出來,又天氣又冷所以我們台灣這個是蠻適合,我們老人會要叫他們出來啊,我覺得那個都非常好但是咧,我們的長照機構,大陸人第一次一個月補六千、八千、補一萬嘛,現在一萬嗎?\n363086\t387493\t要一個要三萬多塊你補一萬所以你的費用是遠遠不足啦所以團團王一鳴在說你現在那個規模是太少了啦所以如果長照保險在第八屆我們我跟那個劉建國王一鳴我們都努力過但是那個時候有反對所以那個推不過那現在應該如果他的規模越來越長到3.0\n389774\t405108\t規模越大事實上是要考量今天這個老人福利法這個評鑑制度因為很多來陳情我想每個人都談過了我也在開過協調會醫院評鑑以前也是優等特優、優等、合格、不合格\n413697\t418420\t不然就改成合格不合格這樣比較簡單啦你常常在這裡熬午飯吃一餅丁又休等那個是以前\n426680\t453565\t該換 護理事項的評鑑也是用合格不合格還是兩套標準現在是怎樣 市長感受一下來 那個委員報告啦 我也知道現在大家都覺得說這樣一國多製 我的委員報告所以我們現在提出的就是說我們現在就是全部一致就把它區分成合格跟不合格我們就不區分成甲乙丙丁我們就是在這個部分我們來來朝這個方 我們就是確定啦\n454125\t473505\t也確定啦那就是用這個方向 這樣比較簡單 你像說他的簡單易行 這樣讓大家好做事情來時間用來好好照顧我們的東北 這樣比較重要對啦 對啦 這樣就 感謝 謝謝再來就是這個身心障礙者保護保障法這個不愛做這個 現在要開始優先做 董隊你還有意見\n475582\t488889\t這以前我們在武衛村,我們是10%一個車廂裡面要10%現在不然又提高到20%15%喔?我每天都在坐高鐵,我每天通勤的那高鐵剛才沒人坐,沒有要坐的人沒人坐,大家拍攝就去坐所以有時候年輕人坐在裡面,老的來,他老的不要老的,要幫忙怎麼樣\n502321\t520321\t常常看到糾紛,所以你現在該做什麼?Priority Seat,優先洗優先洗,就是說反應的什麼都可以嘛就是說有需要的啦,按照有需要的,有的人表面上看好好,其實他是生病的啦,會有慢性病的\n523664\t548099\t主席不要煩惱,今天這兩條,簡單啦其他的骨肉骨粟的不用我請罵啦有什麼請助理請什麼,那比較有課稅啦那要花錢啦,市長、部長,那要花很多錢我們會站在人民的需求上為最高點然後整個國家的一個財政...你現在住在那個機構安養的,現在有10萬床\n551241\t555962\t那十萬床如果一個月補一萬塊,現在如果叫你補兩萬塊,你就倒了就幾十億了,所以我們要量力而為啦好,最後一個問題我要問你,失智現在這兩天有夠嚴重,我自己的表姐、三個都一直下去現在65歲,以上失智的有35萬人\n577404\t580926\t65%是PRECIS,DEMENTIA,超過了多少?有65%是對的?15%我們早期15%,所以委員關心的是失智症的新藥液體\n597079\t608968\t65歲以上比較Dementia65歲以下是Prescina我講的沒錯吧Prescina有多少人這裡35萬 這裡呢跟65歲以上比起來大概15-20%以台灣的數據所以就是35萬就乘以15-20%所以早發性的差不多也有7-8萬人那是很多\n624949\t631558\t那你現在這個藥用打的開始打了 智慧這個藥是用每個禮拜打還是怎樣\n632561\t660405\t跟委員報告這個藥在美國是去年7月才上市那目前是這個我都在做精準的評估那台灣大概是今天在亞東醫院會開打還是用自費來做那它是需要在失智症的非常早期這是第一個條件第二個條件是說它的那個Apple E4必須要陰性因為如果是Apple E陽性的話它比較容易腦水腫那第三個部分是財務評估我們時事處長已經對外講了所以這個部分要啟動這個HDA來做評估那是每個月打一次還是\n660945\t685540\t目前有兩個藥提出申請因為我不能透露是哪個藥那其中一種藥是每個月打那後續還要追蹤MRI看他那個Amyloid的這個Plague他有沒有清楚就是那個類蛋白的這個堆積堆積有沒有清楚以上沒有清楚所以有的一個月打一次有的是打一支冬季的藥對有兩週的有一個月的但是因為我\n691168\t703504\t因為我不能透露是哪一個有申請 抱歉沒關係啦 我們人苦事要人來做我覺得我在看我們這些親戚還有我們看到這個林院長林院長第八屆的時候站在那邊被質詢\n705084\t710707\t我就看他比較內向,跟他很熟,你也很熟靈智營我更熟,我也是這個靈智營就比較厲害靈智營是點柱柱所以我看內向的人,精神科內向的人比較會中點柱柱的人\n722688\t749836\t每天花謝罵人的人,我看待會兒目前的研究,人格特質跟失智症的發生比較沒有關係,跟基因跟環境後天生活習慣關係性比較大,以上補充所以是類蛋白的堆積,AMLOID的堆積在涅涅的地方,是不是?目前兩個學理論,一個是AMLOID的堆積就類蛋白,另外一個是Tau protein的堆積,那目前兩個理論都有在用,兩個都有藥物研發,以上\n750336\t777764\t所以你這個藥是要清除那個類蛋白在腦部的堆積現在是這樣嗎?是所以喔好那要做基因的類型什麼藥嗎?是要做基因的檢測主要是為了副作用擔心他這個藥物引起的腦水腫那目前美國的研究是有33%所以排除了那個相關的基因型他腦水腫的副作用會比較小主要是為了病人安全以上補充所以我覺得每一個人都要保持頭腦動一動\n779984\t801091\t打麻將啦,找人吵架啦,這個也是有效,所以普通話,每天找你學妹,你就不會好歹啦這個很嚴重,我覺得非常非常嚴重,太多啦有的是輕輕的,有的是越來越嚴重,所以看了都很怕,所以這個要出來真的是福音啦\n802409\t828162\t智慧 健保不給物 柏定首先我們要評估他本土的資料這個也很重要 我想因為我們要驗證他的效果然後再評估一個財務的benefit跟burden這樣子就是利弊得失那我覺得照顧失智我們要多元化 趙偉你說的\n830447\t844915\t腦筋要多動多運動要瘦薄一點營養精衡可能這個都是可以預防的那政府在這個部分不管是在工廠中心據點那這個部分都有都已經有準備其實那一種\n846257\t873887\t你做專研會 意思說專研會是我們辦很多長照開始訓練 人臉訓練所以那個時候的題目就叫做失智的一個計畫表示一日十當中我們就要去關心未來的照顧但是那是後面 我個人覺得怎麼樣早期來診斷 早期來預防可能也是一個重點 跟趙偉的意見一樣好 我們大家一起努力啦 謝謝感謝 謝謝\n876584\t876604\t好 謝謝\n","txt":"謝謝主席,我請部長跟次長\n今天這簡單要用兩條第一條就是平健制度的老人福利法48條另外一個是實境障礙者保障法53條就是不愛做我很詳細的聽每一位委員部長本身也當過召委都知道我先問\n你老了,你會想住安養院嗎?市長你有想要住嗎?我才一陣子沒去想到這個問題\n我覺得醫療人員好像沒有什麼退休年齡我事實上我這幾年從第八屆、第九屆、第十屆、現在十一屆第八屆我們先搞那個長照服務法到現在我跑北歐跑哪裡都看了我總歸一個結論日本比較跟我們比較貼切所以日本這個制度比較貼切那北歐那是看送的而已\n因為要吃大菜之類的我跟部長講我們看了日本名古屋到處看也跟他們詳細討論現在日本的安養院像我們去看八王子區看哪裡有其中一家就是差不多差不多,裡面蠻溫馨的硬體設備也不錯\n他們的私人房他們借物保險在我看的時候就已經一年借物保險的費用就10兆日幣10兆日幣喔,這合台幣也多少那日本政府挨挨救啊從安倍的時代就想把借物保險跟醫療保險把它mix在一起結果搞到現在好像也沒有,還是分開那是怎樣?你覺得有什麼原因?\n因為兩個姓氏不一樣他們的四人房,我看那間是他的床位有三百七十幾床然後有一個醫師,退休的醫師就來這邊當院民\n請說要當住院的醫生那他住不用錢還可以拿一點薪水那裡面的護理師也是一樣退休之後就住在那邊當院民要順便當護理師我覺得這個很好這個老的 照顧更老的我們現在就是在推這個嘛儲存時數等等那都很難\n這裏的護理師老,就直接做,做到不做,我覺得這樣很好,我們大陸可能搞不好會這樣啦,我也要把我們屏東那裏的護理師,或是醫生、衛生所退休,我說你們倆要怎麼辦?公共醫師要遵守H65,所以退休,隔天就在我們法人上班了。\n那護理師也是一樣的退休之後就在那邊有的當志工有的當那個在廠商在那邊做我覺得布朗的話你找不到人啦所以布朗這個是可以考量的那他們的私人房一年的一個月差不多合台幣差不多三萬六三萬七差不多啊沒差不多啊那兩人房差不多五萬二左右我都講台幣齁那單人房\n7萬多塊政府付的差不多3萬多塊這樣如果去看歐洲不可能的事情我跟你講赫爾辛基在芬蘭我們去看還有去瑞典瑞典首都那個叫什麼斯德哥摩\n你知道那個安養院 安養院喔他一個月政府付給那個業者一個月一個人 付差不多24萬台幣一個月喔然後如果是精神科的那些不處理是這樣一個月付35萬台幣給吼 我說我們的安養機構如果一個月付25萬 我大家都叫爸爸大家都這樣吼\n不可能我們付不起嘛,因為所得稅60%所得稅所以我們要去學費,那個是亂搞啦,不要講那個那現在回到日本這邊他的住宿機構提供的房數也差不多三成而已那間三百多層的安養機構,外面白堆買一百,八百多\n死一個補一個,死一個補一個所以人家老人家,我在民國有看,都在家比較多因為冬天他們又冷,那他們的日本人的習性跟我們台灣人又不太一樣台灣人的嘻嘻嘩嘩,老人家說我唱歌跳舞,我唱什麼比較不會失智啊,對不對?那不是啊,都一口吐一口大吐,看電視死在家裡面,五天,沒人知道\n所以他們的社工雜貨都一直在卡電話而已,他們都外面不想出來,所以他們的時薪跟我們看不一樣所以長壽,然後又不喜歡出來,又天氣又冷所以我們台灣這個是蠻適合,我們老人會要叫他們出來啊,我覺得那個都非常好但是咧,我們的長照機構,大陸人第一次一個月補六千、八千、補一萬嘛,現在一萬嗎?\n要一個要三萬多塊你補一萬所以你的費用是遠遠不足啦所以團團王一鳴在說你現在那個規模是太少了啦所以如果長照保險在第八屆我們我跟那個劉建國王一鳴我們都努力過但是那個時候有反對所以那個推不過那現在應該如果他的規模越來越長到3.0\n規模越大事實上是要考量今天這個老人福利法這個評鑑制度因為很多來陳情我想每個人都談過了我也在開過協調會醫院評鑑以前也是優等特優、優等、合格、不合格\n不然就改成合格不合格這樣比較簡單啦你常常在這裡熬午飯吃一餅丁又休等那個是以前\n該換 護理事項的評鑑也是用合格不合格還是兩套標準現在是怎樣 市長感受一下來 那個委員報告啦 我也知道現在大家都覺得說這樣一國多製 我的委員報告所以我們現在提出的就是說我們現在就是全部一致就把它區分成合格跟不合格我們就不區分成甲乙丙丁我們就是在這個部分我們來來朝這個方 我們就是確定啦\n也確定啦那就是用這個方向 這樣比較簡單 你像說他的簡單易行 這樣讓大家好做事情來時間用來好好照顧我們的東北 這樣比較重要對啦 對啦 這樣就 感謝 謝謝再來就是這個身心障礙者保護保障法這個不愛做這個 現在要開始優先做 董隊你還有意見\n這以前我們在武衛村,我們是10%一個車廂裡面要10%現在不然又提高到20%15%喔?我每天都在坐高鐵,我每天通勤的那高鐵剛才沒人坐,沒有要坐的人沒人坐,大家拍攝就去坐所以有時候年輕人坐在裡面,老的來,他老的不要老的,要幫忙怎麼樣\n常常看到糾紛,所以你現在該做什麼?Priority Seat,優先洗優先洗,就是說反應的什麼都可以嘛就是說有需要的啦,按照有需要的,有的人表面上看好好,其實他是生病的啦,會有慢性病的\n主席不要煩惱,今天這兩條,簡單啦其他的骨肉骨粟的不用我請罵啦有什麼請助理請什麼,那比較有課稅啦那要花錢啦,市長、部長,那要花很多錢我們會站在人民的需求上為最高點然後整個國家的一個財政...你現在住在那個機構安養的,現在有10萬床\n那十萬床如果一個月補一萬塊,現在如果叫你補兩萬塊,你就倒了就幾十億了,所以我們要量力而為啦好,最後一個問題我要問你,失智現在這兩天有夠嚴重,我自己的表姐、三個都一直下去現在65歲,以上失智的有35萬人\n65%是PRECIS,DEMENTIA,超過了多少?有65%是對的?15%我們早期15%,所以委員關心的是失智症的新藥液體\n65歲以上比較Dementia65歲以下是Prescina我講的沒錯吧Prescina有多少人這裡35萬 這裡呢跟65歲以上比起來大概15-20%以台灣的數據所以就是35萬就乘以15-20%所以早發性的差不多也有7-8萬人那是很多\n那你現在這個藥用打的開始打了 智慧這個藥是用每個禮拜打還是怎樣\n跟委員報告這個藥在美國是去年7月才上市那目前是這個我都在做精準的評估那台灣大概是今天在亞東醫院會開打還是用自費來做那它是需要在失智症的非常早期這是第一個條件第二個條件是說它的那個Apple E4必須要陰性因為如果是Apple E陽性的話它比較容易腦水腫那第三個部分是財務評估我們時事處長已經對外講了所以這個部分要啟動這個HDA來做評估那是每個月打一次還是\n目前有兩個藥提出申請因為我不能透露是哪個藥那其中一種藥是每個月打那後續還要追蹤MRI看他那個Amyloid的這個Plague他有沒有清楚就是那個類蛋白的這個堆積堆積有沒有清楚以上沒有清楚所以有的一個月打一次有的是打一支冬季的藥對有兩週的有一個月的但是因為我\n因為我不能透露是哪一個有申請 抱歉沒關係啦 我們人苦事要人來做我覺得我在看我們這些親戚還有我們看到這個林院長林院長第八屆的時候站在那邊被質詢\n我就看他比較內向,跟他很熟,你也很熟靈智營我更熟,我也是這個靈智營就比較厲害靈智營是點柱柱所以我看內向的人,精神科內向的人比較會中點柱柱的人\n每天花謝罵人的人,我看待會兒目前的研究,人格特質跟失智症的發生比較沒有關係,跟基因跟環境後天生活習慣關係性比較大,以上補充所以是類蛋白的堆積,AMLOID的堆積在涅涅的地方,是不是?目前兩個學理論,一個是AMLOID的堆積就類蛋白,另外一個是Tau protein的堆積,那目前兩個理論都有在用,兩個都有藥物研發,以上\n所以你這個藥是要清除那個類蛋白在腦部的堆積現在是這樣嗎?是所以喔好那要做基因的類型什麼藥嗎?是要做基因的檢測主要是為了副作用擔心他這個藥物引起的腦水腫那目前美國的研究是有33%所以排除了那個相關的基因型他腦水腫的副作用會比較小主要是為了病人安全以上補充所以我覺得每一個人都要保持頭腦動一動\n打麻將啦,找人吵架啦,這個也是有效,所以普通話,每天找你學妹,你就不會好歹啦這個很嚴重,我覺得非常非常嚴重,太多啦有的是輕輕的,有的是越來越嚴重,所以看了都很怕,所以這個要出來真的是福音啦\n智慧 健保不給物 柏定首先我們要評估他本土的資料這個也很重要 我想因為我們要驗證他的效果然後再評估一個財務的benefit跟burden這樣子就是利弊得失那我覺得照顧失智我們要多元化 趙偉你說的\n腦筋要多動多運動要瘦薄一點營養精衡可能這個都是可以預防的那政府在這個部分不管是在工廠中心據點那這個部分都有都已經有準備其實那一種\n你做專研會 意思說專研會是我們辦很多長照開始訓練 人臉訓練所以那個時候的題目就叫做失智的一個計畫表示一日十當中我們就要去關心未來的照顧但是那是後面 我個人覺得怎麼樣早期來診斷 早期來預防可能也是一個重點 跟趙偉的意見一樣好 我們大家一起努力啦 謝謝感謝 謝謝\n好 謝謝\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.069 --> 00:07.478\n謝謝主席,我請部長跟次長\n\n00:20.113 --> 00:42.179\n今天這簡單要用兩條第一條就是平健制度的老人福利法48條另外一個是實境障礙者保障法53條就是不愛做我很詳細的聽每一位委員部長本身也當過召委都知道我先問\n\n00:43.857 --> 00:50.864\n你老了,你會想住安養院嗎?市長你有想要住嗎?我才一陣子沒去想到這個問題\n\n00:57.236 --> 01:15.486\n我覺得醫療人員好像沒有什麼退休年齡我事實上我這幾年從第八屆、第九屆、第十屆、現在十一屆第八屆我們先搞那個長照服務法到現在我跑北歐跑哪裡都看了我總歸一個結論日本比較跟我們比較貼切所以日本這個制度比較貼切那北歐那是看送的而已\n\n01:26.618 --> 01:51.098\n因為要吃大菜之類的我跟部長講我們看了日本名古屋到處看也跟他們詳細討論現在日本的安養院像我們去看八王子區看哪裡有其中一家就是差不多差不多,裡面蠻溫馨的硬體設備也不錯\n\n01:52.722 --> 02:20.544\n他們的私人房他們借物保險在我看的時候就已經一年借物保險的費用就10兆日幣10兆日幣喔,這合台幣也多少那日本政府挨挨救啊從安倍的時代就想把借物保險跟醫療保險把它mix在一起結果搞到現在好像也沒有,還是分開那是怎樣?你覺得有什麼原因?\n\n02:21.807 --> 02:33.877\n因為兩個姓氏不一樣他們的四人房,我看那間是他的床位有三百七十幾床然後有一個醫師,退休的醫師就來這邊當院民\n\n02:39.057 --> 03:01.629\n請說要當住院的醫生那他住不用錢還可以拿一點薪水那裡面的護理師也是一樣退休之後就住在那邊當院民要順便當護理師我覺得這個很好這個老的照顧更老的我們現在就是在推這個嘛儲存時數等等那都很難\n\n03:04.729 --> 03:25.021\n這裏的護理師老,就直接做,做到不做,我覺得這樣很好,我們大陸可能搞不好會這樣啦,我也要把我們屏東那裏的護理師,或是醫生、衛生所退休,我說你們倆要怎麼辦?公共醫師要遵守H65,所以退休,隔天就在我們法人上班了。\n\n03:25.939 --> 03:53.129\n那護理師也是一樣的退休之後就在那邊有的當志工有的當那個在廠商在那邊做我覺得布朗的話你找不到人啦所以布朗這個是可以考量的那他們的私人房一年的一個月差不多合台幣差不多三萬六三萬七差不多啊沒差不多啊那兩人房差不多五萬二左右我都講台幣齁那單人房\n\n03:54.726 --> 04:10.994\n7萬多塊政府付的差不多3萬多塊這樣如果去看歐洲不可能的事情我跟你講赫爾辛基在芬蘭我們去看還有去瑞典瑞典首都那個叫什麼斯德哥摩\n\n04:14.127 --> 04:23.650\n你知道那個安養院安養院喔他一個月政府付給那個業者一個月一個人付差不多24萬台幣一個月喔然後如果是精神科的那些不處理是這樣一個月付35萬台幣給吼我說我們的安養機構如果一個月付25萬我大家都叫爸爸大家都這樣吼\n\n04:41.704 --> 05:00.473\n不可能我們付不起嘛,因為所得稅60%所得稅所以我們要去學費,那個是亂搞啦,不要講那個那現在回到日本這邊他的住宿機構提供的房數也差不多三成而已那間三百多層的安養機構,外面白堆買一百,八百多\n\n05:10.571 --> 05:32.078\n死一個補一個,死一個補一個所以人家老人家,我在民國有看,都在家比較多因為冬天他們又冷,那他們的日本人的習性跟我們台灣人又不太一樣台灣人的嘻嘻嘩嘩,老人家說我唱歌跳舞,我唱什麼比較不會失智啊,對不對?那不是啊,都一口吐一口大吐,看電視死在家裡面,五天,沒人知道\n\n05:37.409 --> 05:46.392\n所以他們的社工雜貨都一直在卡電話而已,他們都外面不想出來,所以他們的時薪跟我們看不一樣所以長壽,然後又不喜歡出來,又天氣又冷所以我們台灣這個是蠻適合,我們老人會要叫他們出來啊,我覺得那個都非常好但是咧,我們的長照機構,大陸人第一次一個月補六千、八千、補一萬嘛,現在一萬嗎?\n\n06:03.086 --> 06:27.493\n要一個要三萬多塊你補一萬所以你的費用是遠遠不足啦所以團團王一鳴在說你現在那個規模是太少了啦所以如果長照保險在第八屆我們我跟那個劉建國王一鳴我們都努力過但是那個時候有反對所以那個推不過那現在應該如果他的規模越來越長到3.0\n\n06:29.774 --> 06:45.108\n規模越大事實上是要考量今天這個老人福利法這個評鑑制度因為很多來陳情我想每個人都談過了我也在開過協調會醫院評鑑以前也是優等特優、優等、合格、不合格\n\n06:53.697 --> 06:58.420\n不然就改成合格不合格這樣比較簡單啦你常常在這裡熬午飯吃一餅丁又休等那個是以前\n\n07:06.680 --> 07:33.565\n該換護理事項的評鑑也是用合格不合格還是兩套標準現在是怎樣市長感受一下來那個委員報告啦我也知道現在大家都覺得說這樣一國多製我的委員報告所以我們現在提出的就是說我們現在就是全部一致就把它區分成合格跟不合格我們就不區分成甲乙丙丁我們就是在這個部分我們來來朝這個方我們就是確定啦\n\n07:34.125 --> 07:53.505\n也確定啦那就是用這個方向這樣比較簡單你像說他的簡單易行這樣讓大家好做事情來時間用來好好照顧我們的東北這樣比較重要對啦對啦這樣就感謝謝謝再來就是這個身心障礙者保護保障法這個不愛做這個現在要開始優先做董隊你還有意見\n\n07:55.582 --> 08:08.889\n這以前我們在武衛村,我們是10%一個車廂裡面要10%現在不然又提高到20%15%喔?我每天都在坐高鐵,我每天通勤的那高鐵剛才沒人坐,沒有要坐的人沒人坐,大家拍攝就去坐所以有時候年輕人坐在裡面,老的來,他老的不要老的,要幫忙怎麼樣\n\n08:22.321 --> 08:40.321\n常常看到糾紛,所以你現在該做什麼?PrioritySeat,優先洗優先洗,就是說反應的什麼都可以嘛就是說有需要的啦,按照有需要的,有的人表面上看好好,其實他是生病的啦,會有慢性病的\n\n08:43.664 --> 09:08.099\n主席不要煩惱,今天這兩條,簡單啦其他的骨肉骨粟的不用我請罵啦有什麼請助理請什麼,那比較有課稅啦那要花錢啦,市長、部長,那要花很多錢我們會站在人民的需求上為最高點然後整個國家的一個財政...你現在住在那個機構安養的,現在有10萬床\n\n09:11.241 --> 09:15.962\n那十萬床如果一個月補一萬塊,現在如果叫你補兩萬塊,你就倒了就幾十億了,所以我們要量力而為啦好,最後一個問題我要問你,失智現在這兩天有夠嚴重,我自己的表姐、三個都一直下去現在65歲,以上失智的有35萬人\n\n09:37.404 --> 09:40.926\n65%是PRECIS,DEMENTIA,超過了多少?有65%是對的?15%我們早期15%,所以委員關心的是失智症的新藥液體\n\n09:57.079 --> 10:08.968\n65歲以上比較Dementia65歲以下是Prescina我講的沒錯吧Prescina有多少人這裡35萬這裡呢跟65歲以上比起來大概15-20%以台灣的數據所以就是35萬就乘以15-20%所以早發性的差不多也有7-8萬人那是很多\n\n10:24.949 --> 10:31.558\n那你現在這個藥用打的開始打了智慧這個藥是用每個禮拜打還是怎樣\n\n10:32.561 --> 11:00.405\n跟委員報告這個藥在美國是去年7月才上市那目前是這個我都在做精準的評估那台灣大概是今天在亞東醫院會開打還是用自費來做那它是需要在失智症的非常早期這是第一個條件第二個條件是說它的那個AppleE4必須要陰性因為如果是AppleE陽性的話它比較容易腦水腫那第三個部分是財務評估我們時事處長已經對外講了所以這個部分要啟動這個HDA來做評估那是每個月打一次還是\n\n11:00.945 --> 11:25.540\n目前有兩個藥提出申請因為我不能透露是哪個藥那其中一種藥是每個月打那後續還要追蹤MRI看他那個Amyloid的這個Plague他有沒有清楚就是那個類蛋白的這個堆積堆積有沒有清楚以上沒有清楚所以有的一個月打一次有的是打一支冬季的藥對有兩週的有一個月的但是因為我\n\n11:31.168 --> 11:43.504\n因為我不能透露是哪一個有申請抱歉沒關係啦我們人苦事要人來做我覺得我在看我們這些親戚還有我們看到這個林院長林院長第八屆的時候站在那邊被質詢\n\n11:45.084 --> 11:50.707\n我就看他比較內向,跟他很熟,你也很熟靈智營我更熟,我也是這個靈智營就比較厲害靈智營是點柱柱所以我看內向的人,精神科內向的人比較會中點柱柱的人\n\n12:02.688 --> 12:29.836\n每天花謝罵人的人,我看待會兒目前的研究,人格特質跟失智症的發生比較沒有關係,跟基因跟環境後天生活習慣關係性比較大,以上補充所以是類蛋白的堆積,AMLOID的堆積在涅涅的地方,是不是?目前兩個學理論,一個是AMLOID的堆積就類蛋白,另外一個是Tauprotein的堆積,那目前兩個理論都有在用,兩個都有藥物研發,以上\n\n12:30.336 --> 12:57.764\n所以你這個藥是要清除那個類蛋白在腦部的堆積現在是這樣嗎?是所以喔好那要做基因的類型什麼藥嗎?是要做基因的檢測主要是為了副作用擔心他這個藥物引起的腦水腫那目前美國的研究是有33%所以排除了那個相關的基因型他腦水腫的副作用會比較小主要是為了病人安全以上補充所以我覺得每一個人都要保持頭腦動一動\n\n12:59.984 --> 13:21.091\n打麻將啦,找人吵架啦,這個也是有效,所以普通話,每天找你學妹,你就不會好歹啦這個很嚴重,我覺得非常非常嚴重,太多啦有的是輕輕的,有的是越來越嚴重,所以看了都很怕,所以這個要出來真的是福音啦\n\n13:22.409 --> 13:48.162\n智慧健保不給物柏定首先我們要評估他本土的資料這個也很重要我想因為我們要驗證他的效果然後再評估一個財務的benefit跟burden這樣子就是利弊得失那我覺得照顧失智我們要多元化趙偉你說的\n\n13:50.447 --> 14:04.915\n腦筋要多動多運動要瘦薄一點營養精衡可能這個都是可以預防的那政府在這個部分不管是在工廠中心據點那這個部分都有都已經有準備其實那一種\n\n14:06.257 --> 14:33.887\n你做專研會意思說專研會是我們辦很多長照開始訓練人臉訓練所以那個時候的題目就叫做失智的一個計畫表示一日十當中我們就要去關心未來的照顧但是那是後面我個人覺得怎麼樣早期來診斷早期來預防可能也是一個重點跟趙偉的意見一樣好我們大家一起努力啦謝謝感謝謝謝\n\n14:36.584 --> 14:36.604\n好謝謝\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.069,"end":7.478,"text":"謝謝主席,我請部長跟次長"},{"start":20.113,"end":42.179,"text":"今天這簡單要用兩條第一條就是平健制度的老人福利法48條另外一個是實境障礙者保障法53條就是不愛做我很詳細的聽每一位委員部長本身也當過召委都知道我先問"},{"start":43.857,"end":50.864,"text":"你老了,你會想住安養院嗎?市長你有想要住嗎?我才一陣子沒去想到這個問題"},{"start":57.236,"end":75.486,"text":"我覺得醫療人員好像沒有什麼退休年齡我事實上我這幾年從第八屆、第九屆、第十屆、現在十一屆第八屆我們先搞那個長照服務法到現在我跑北歐跑哪裡都看了我總歸一個結論日本比較跟我們比較貼切所以日本這個制度比較貼切那北歐那是看送的而已"},{"start":86.618,"end":111.098,"text":"因為要吃大菜之類的我跟部長講我們看了日本名古屋到處看也跟他們詳細討論現在日本的安養院像我們去看八王子區看哪裡有其中一家就是差不多差不多,裡面蠻溫馨的硬體設備也不錯"},{"start":112.722,"end":140.544,"text":"他們的私人房他們借物保險在我看的時候就已經一年借物保險的費用就10兆日幣10兆日幣喔,這合台幣也多少那日本政府挨挨救啊從安倍的時代就想把借物保險跟醫療保險把它mix在一起結果搞到現在好像也沒有,還是分開那是怎樣?你覺得有什麼原因?"},{"start":141.807,"end":153.877,"text":"因為兩個姓氏不一樣他們的四人房,我看那間是他的床位有三百七十幾床然後有一個醫師,退休的醫師就來這邊當院民"},{"start":159.057,"end":181.629,"text":"請說要當住院的醫生那他住不用錢還可以拿一點薪水那裡面的護理師也是一樣退休之後就住在那邊當院民要順便當護理師我覺得這個很好這個老的 照顧更老的我們現在就是在推這個嘛儲存時數等等那都很難"},{"start":184.729,"end":205.021,"text":"這裏的護理師老,就直接做,做到不做,我覺得這樣很好,我們大陸可能搞不好會這樣啦,我也要把我們屏東那裏的護理師,或是醫生、衛生所退休,我說你們倆要怎麼辦?公共醫師要遵守H65,所以退休,隔天就在我們法人上班了。"},{"start":205.939,"end":233.129,"text":"那護理師也是一樣的退休之後就在那邊有的當志工有的當那個在廠商在那邊做我覺得布朗的話你找不到人啦所以布朗這個是可以考量的那他們的私人房一年的一個月差不多合台幣差不多三萬六三萬七差不多啊沒差不多啊那兩人房差不多五萬二左右我都講台幣齁那單人房"},{"start":234.726,"end":250.994,"text":"7萬多塊政府付的差不多3萬多塊這樣如果去看歐洲不可能的事情我跟你講赫爾辛基在芬蘭我們去看還有去瑞典瑞典首都那個叫什麼斯德哥摩"},{"start":254.127,"end":263.65,"text":"你知道那個安養院 安養院喔他一個月政府付給那個業者一個月一個人 付差不多24萬台幣一個月喔然後如果是精神科的那些不處理是這樣一個月付35萬台幣給吼 我說我們的安養機構如果一個月付25萬 我大家都叫爸爸大家都這樣吼"},{"start":281.704,"end":300.473,"text":"不可能我們付不起嘛,因為所得稅60%所得稅所以我們要去學費,那個是亂搞啦,不要講那個那現在回到日本這邊他的住宿機構提供的房數也差不多三成而已那間三百多層的安養機構,外面白堆買一百,八百多"},{"start":310.571,"end":332.078,"text":"死一個補一個,死一個補一個所以人家老人家,我在民國有看,都在家比較多因為冬天他們又冷,那他們的日本人的習性跟我們台灣人又不太一樣台灣人的嘻嘻嘩嘩,老人家說我唱歌跳舞,我唱什麼比較不會失智啊,對不對?那不是啊,都一口吐一口大吐,看電視死在家裡面,五天,沒人知道"},{"start":337.409,"end":346.392,"text":"所以他們的社工雜貨都一直在卡電話而已,他們都外面不想出來,所以他們的時薪跟我們看不一樣所以長壽,然後又不喜歡出來,又天氣又冷所以我們台灣這個是蠻適合,我們老人會要叫他們出來啊,我覺得那個都非常好但是咧,我們的長照機構,大陸人第一次一個月補六千、八千、補一萬嘛,現在一萬嗎?"},{"start":363.086,"end":387.493,"text":"要一個要三萬多塊你補一萬所以你的費用是遠遠不足啦所以團團王一鳴在說你現在那個規模是太少了啦所以如果長照保險在第八屆我們我跟那個劉建國王一鳴我們都努力過但是那個時候有反對所以那個推不過那現在應該如果他的規模越來越長到3.0"},{"start":389.774,"end":405.108,"text":"規模越大事實上是要考量今天這個老人福利法這個評鑑制度因為很多來陳情我想每個人都談過了我也在開過協調會醫院評鑑以前也是優等特優、優等、合格、不合格"},{"start":413.697,"end":418.42,"text":"不然就改成合格不合格這樣比較簡單啦你常常在這裡熬午飯吃一餅丁又休等那個是以前"},{"start":426.68,"end":453.565,"text":"該換 護理事項的評鑑也是用合格不合格還是兩套標準現在是怎樣 市長感受一下來 那個委員報告啦 我也知道現在大家都覺得說這樣一國多製 我的委員報告所以我們現在提出的就是說我們現在就是全部一致就把它區分成合格跟不合格我們就不區分成甲乙丙丁我們就是在這個部分我們來來朝這個方 我們就是確定啦"},{"start":454.125,"end":473.505,"text":"也確定啦那就是用這個方向 這樣比較簡單 你像說他的簡單易行 這樣讓大家好做事情來時間用來好好照顧我們的東北 這樣比較重要對啦 對啦 這樣就 感謝 謝謝再來就是這個身心障礙者保護保障法這個不愛做這個 現在要開始優先做 董隊你還有意見"},{"start":475.582,"end":488.889,"text":"這以前我們在武衛村,我們是10%一個車廂裡面要10%現在不然又提高到20%15%喔?我每天都在坐高鐵,我每天通勤的那高鐵剛才沒人坐,沒有要坐的人沒人坐,大家拍攝就去坐所以有時候年輕人坐在裡面,老的來,他老的不要老的,要幫忙怎麼樣"},{"start":502.321,"end":520.321,"text":"常常看到糾紛,所以你現在該做什麼?Priority Seat,優先洗優先洗,就是說反應的什麼都可以嘛就是說有需要的啦,按照有需要的,有的人表面上看好好,其實他是生病的啦,會有慢性病的"},{"start":523.664,"end":548.099,"text":"主席不要煩惱,今天這兩條,簡單啦其他的骨肉骨粟的不用我請罵啦有什麼請助理請什麼,那比較有課稅啦那要花錢啦,市長、部長,那要花很多錢我們會站在人民的需求上為最高點然後整個國家的一個財政...你現在住在那個機構安養的,現在有10萬床"},{"start":551.241,"end":555.962,"text":"那十萬床如果一個月補一萬塊,現在如果叫你補兩萬塊,你就倒了就幾十億了,所以我們要量力而為啦好,最後一個問題我要問你,失智現在這兩天有夠嚴重,我自己的表姐、三個都一直下去現在65歲,以上失智的有35萬人"},{"start":577.404,"end":580.926,"text":"65%是PRECIS,DEMENTIA,超過了多少?有65%是對的?15%我們早期15%,所以委員關心的是失智症的新藥液體"},{"start":597.079,"end":608.968,"text":"65歲以上比較Dementia65歲以下是Prescina我講的沒錯吧Prescina有多少人這裡35萬 這裡呢跟65歲以上比起來大概15-20%以台灣的數據所以就是35萬就乘以15-20%所以早發性的差不多也有7-8萬人那是很多"},{"start":624.949,"end":631.558,"text":"那你現在這個藥用打的開始打了 智慧這個藥是用每個禮拜打還是怎樣"},{"start":632.561,"end":660.405,"text":"跟委員報告這個藥在美國是去年7月才上市那目前是這個我都在做精準的評估那台灣大概是今天在亞東醫院會開打還是用自費來做那它是需要在失智症的非常早期這是第一個條件第二個條件是說它的那個Apple E4必須要陰性因為如果是Apple E陽性的話它比較容易腦水腫那第三個部分是財務評估我們時事處長已經對外講了所以這個部分要啟動這個HDA來做評估那是每個月打一次還是"},{"start":660.945,"end":685.54,"text":"目前有兩個藥提出申請因為我不能透露是哪個藥那其中一種藥是每個月打那後續還要追蹤MRI看他那個Amyloid的這個Plague他有沒有清楚就是那個類蛋白的這個堆積堆積有沒有清楚以上沒有清楚所以有的一個月打一次有的是打一支冬季的藥對有兩週的有一個月的但是因為我"},{"start":691.168,"end":703.504,"text":"因為我不能透露是哪一個有申請 抱歉沒關係啦 我們人苦事要人來做我覺得我在看我們這些親戚還有我們看到這個林院長林院長第八屆的時候站在那邊被質詢"},{"start":705.084,"end":710.707,"text":"我就看他比較內向,跟他很熟,你也很熟靈智營我更熟,我也是這個靈智營就比較厲害靈智營是點柱柱所以我看內向的人,精神科內向的人比較會中點柱柱的人"},{"start":722.688,"end":749.836,"text":"每天花謝罵人的人,我看待會兒目前的研究,人格特質跟失智症的發生比較沒有關係,跟基因跟環境後天生活習慣關係性比較大,以上補充所以是類蛋白的堆積,AMLOID的堆積在涅涅的地方,是不是?目前兩個學理論,一個是AMLOID的堆積就類蛋白,另外一個是Tau protein的堆積,那目前兩個理論都有在用,兩個都有藥物研發,以上"},{"start":750.336,"end":777.764,"text":"所以你這個藥是要清除那個類蛋白在腦部的堆積現在是這樣嗎?是所以喔好那要做基因的類型什麼藥嗎?是要做基因的檢測主要是為了副作用擔心他這個藥物引起的腦水腫那目前美國的研究是有33%所以排除了那個相關的基因型他腦水腫的副作用會比較小主要是為了病人安全以上補充所以我覺得每一個人都要保持頭腦動一動"},{"start":779.984,"end":801.091,"text":"打麻將啦,找人吵架啦,這個也是有效,所以普通話,每天找你學妹,你就不會好歹啦這個很嚴重,我覺得非常非常嚴重,太多啦有的是輕輕的,有的是越來越嚴重,所以看了都很怕,所以這個要出來真的是福音啦"},{"start":802.409,"end":828.162,"text":"智慧 健保不給物 柏定首先我們要評估他本土的資料這個也很重要 我想因為我們要驗證他的效果然後再評估一個財務的benefit跟burden這樣子就是利弊得失那我覺得照顧失智我們要多元化 趙偉你說的"},{"start":830.447,"end":844.915,"text":"腦筋要多動多運動要瘦薄一點營養精衡可能這個都是可以預防的那政府在這個部分不管是在工廠中心據點那這個部分都有都已經有準備其實那一種"},{"start":846.257,"end":873.887,"text":"你做專研會 意思說專研會是我們辦很多長照開始訓練 人臉訓練所以那個時候的題目就叫做失智的一個計畫表示一日十當中我們就要去關心未來的照顧但是那是後面 我個人覺得怎麼樣早期來診斷 早期來預防可能也是一個重點 跟趙偉的意見一樣好 我們大家一起努力啦 謝謝感謝 謝謝"},{"start":876.584,"end":876.604,"text":"好 謝謝"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":733,"blocks":[["蘇委員清泉：（10時50分）謝謝主席，我請部長跟次長。"],["主席：請邱部長及呂次長。"],["邱部長泰源：召委好。"],["蘇委員清泉：講臺灣話應該沒有問題吧！部長，今天很簡單只有討論兩條條文而已，第一個是老人福利法第四十八條的評鑑制度，另外一個是身心障礙者權益保障法第五十三條有關博愛座的問題，早上我很詳細的聽每一位委員的發言，部長本身也當過召委員，應該也都知道。我先問你，你老了之後會想要住安養院嗎？次長你有想要住嗎？"],["邱部長泰源：我到現在還沒有想到這個問題，拚到沒日沒夜。"],["蘇委員清泉：最好是做到老啦！我覺得醫療人員好像沒有什麼退休年齡，事實上我從第8屆、第9屆、第10屆到現在第11屆，第8屆我們搞長照服務法到現在，我跑北歐、哪裡都看了，我總歸一個結論，日本的狀況跟我們比較接近，所以日本的制度看起來比較貼切，至於北歐那邊只是去看爽的而已，因為實在差太多了。我跟部長講，我們到日本名古屋等地到處去看，也跟他們詳細討論，現在日本的安養院，像我們去看八王子區，他們的狀況都差不多，裡面蠻溫馨的，硬體設備也不錯，他們的四人房……關於他們的介護，在我看的時候一年的介護保險費用就已經高達10兆日幣，折合臺幣不知道多少了！日本政府「哀哀叫」，從安倍時代就想把介護保險和醫療保險mix在一起，結果搞到現在好像也沒有，兩者還是分開，為什麼？你知道是什麼原因嗎？"],["邱部長泰源：兩者性質不一樣啊！"],["蘇委員清泉：不一樣嘛！我看的那間床位有三百七十幾床，然後有一個退休醫師就到那邊當院民，順便當駐院醫生，他住不用錢，還可以拿一點薪水，因為他已經退休了；裡面的護理師也是一樣，退休之後就住在那邊當院民，同時也順便當護理師。我覺得這樣很好，老的照顧更老的，我們現在就是在推這個，包括儲存時數等等全都combine。這些老護理師就一直做，做到不能做為止，我覺得這樣很好，臺灣到最後可能也是這樣，我也跟屏東的護理師說，或是有醫生從衛生所退休時，我說你來我這裡上班，公共醫師、診所醫師65歲退休，隔天就來我們法人這邊上班了，護理師也是一樣，退休之後有的當志工，有的在長照那邊做，如果不這樣的話，根本找不到人啊！所以部長，這是可以考量的。"],["邱部長泰源：是。"],["蘇委員清泉：他們的四人房一個月合臺幣差不多3萬6,000、3萬7,000，這和我們差不多，兩人房差不多臺幣5萬2,000左右，單人房臺幣七萬多塊，政府付的差不多三萬多塊，你如果去看歐洲，那是不可能的事情！我跟你講，我們去芬蘭赫爾辛基和瑞典首都斯德哥爾摩看他們的安養院，政府付給業者一個人一個月差不多24萬臺幣，如果是精神科的nursing home（護理之家），一個月就要付35萬臺幣。我說我們的安養機構如果一個月付給我25萬，我每個都叫他爸爸，但是不可能，我們付不起嘛！他們的所得稅可以繳到60%，所以我們要去學北歐那個是亂搞啦，不要講那個。","現在回到日本這邊，它的住宿機構提供床數也差不多三成而已，那間三百多床的安養機構，外面排隊要進來的有八百多人，但只能死一個補一個，所以就我在名古屋看到的，他們的老人在家裡的比較多。因為他們的冬天很冷，而日本人的習性跟臺灣人不太一樣，臺灣人喜歡熱鬧，老人會可以唱歌、跳舞或互罵，比較不會失智，但他們不是這樣，都是一個人傻傻的在家裡看電視，死在家裡五天都沒人知道，所以他們的社工吃飽都一直在打電話而已。他們都關在家裡面不喜歡出門，他們的習性跟我們比較不一樣，他們長壽但不喜歡出門，加上天氣又冷，所以我們臺灣是蠻適合，我們有老人會叫他們出來，我覺得那個都非常好，但是住在我們的長照機構裡面，現在你們一個月是補助6,000、8,000或1萬？現在是補助1萬嗎？"],["邱部長泰源：對，1萬。"],["蘇委員清泉：一個月要三萬多塊，結果你們才補助1萬，所以你們的費用是遠遠不足，就像剛剛王育敏所說的，現在的規模實在太少了，如果有長照保險……在第8屆我跟劉建國、王育敏都曾努力過，但是那個時候有人反對，所以推不過，現在如果要推動長照3.0，規模越來越大，事實上應該要考量。","針對今天所要討論的老人福利法評鑑制度，因為很多人來陳情，我想每一個委員都談過了，我也開過協調會。醫院評鑑以前也是分為特優、優等、合格、不合格，後來改成合格及不合格而已，這樣比較簡單。現在長照有甲、乙、丙、丁和優等，那個是以前啦，現在應該要換了。"],["邱部長泰源：是。"],["蘇委員清泉：護理之家的評鑑也是用合格和不合格嗎？還是兩套標準？現在的情況到底是怎麼樣？"],["呂次長建德：跟委員報告，我也知道現在大家都覺得怎麼會是一國多制，所以我們現在提出的是全部一致，就是把它區分成合格和不合格，而不區分甲、乙、丙、丁，這部分已經確定了，我們就是用這種方式，這樣比較簡單，而且也簡單易行，這樣讓大家比較好做事，把時間用來好好照顧長輩，這樣比較重要。"],["蘇委員清泉：對啦，這樣好。"],["呂次長建德：謝謝。"],["蘇委員清泉：再來是與身心障礙者權益保障法有關博愛座，現在要改成優先座，部長你有意見嗎？以前我們在推動的時候，本來一個車廂裡面要10%，後來好像又提高到20%……"],["呂次長建德：15%。"],["蘇委員清泉：15%是嗎？我每天通勤搭高鐵，高鐵前面的博愛座都沒有人坐，大家都不好意思進去坐，所以有時候年輕人坐在裡面，老人來了就倚老賣老要把他趕走，常常看到糾紛，所以你現在改成什麼？"],["邱部長泰源：priority seat（優先席）。"],["蘇委員清泉：包括懷孕或什麼的都可以嘛！"],["邱部長泰源：就是有需要的，有的人表面上看起來好好的，其實他是生病的、有慢性病的。"],["蘇委員清泉：主席不用煩惱，今天處理這兩條很簡單啦！其他「拉拉雜雜」的就不用審了，包括請助理或什麼的，那怎麼有可能？要到哪裡去籌錢？"],["邱部長泰源：我們會以人民的需求為最高點，然後整個國家的財政……"],["蘇委員清泉：現在住在機構安養的有10萬床，一個月補助1萬塊，現在如果叫你補助2萬塊，你就倒了，一年會多幾十億、上百億，所以我們要量力而為。","最後一個問題，我要問你的是失智，這兩天有夠嚴重，我自己的表姐、很多人都是這樣，現在65歲以上失智的有35萬人，65歲以下的Presenile Dementia差不多有多少人，你知道嗎？有的人五、六十歲就有了。"],["邱部長泰源：15%。"],["蘇委員清泉：亮妤，你來回答，你是精神科的。"],["邱部長泰源：亮妤是精神科醫師。"],["蘇委員清泉：對、對！"],["陳副署長亮妤：我們早期是15%，委員關心的是失智症的新藥議題，是嗎？"],["蘇委員清泉：對，65歲以上叫dementia嘛？"],["陳副署長亮妤：是、是。"],["蘇委員清泉：65歲以下叫presenile，我講這樣沒錯吧？"],["陳副署長亮妤：是、是，完全正確。"],["蘇委員清泉：presenile有多少人？那裡是35萬，那這裡呢？"],["陳副署長亮妤：以臺灣的數據來講，跟65歲以上比起來大概是15%到20%，就是35萬乘以15%到20%。"],["蘇委員清泉：所以早發性的差不多也有七、八萬人？"],["陳副署長亮妤：是。"],["蘇委員清泉：那很多欸！現在這個藥開始打了，自費，這個藥是每個禮拜打，還是怎樣？"],["陳副署長亮妤：跟委員報告，這個藥在美國是去年7月才上市，目前世界各國都在做精準評估，臺灣大概是今天在亞東醫院開打，還是用自費來做，它是需要在失智症的非常早期，這是第一個條件；第二個條件是他的APOE必須要陰性，如果是APOE陽性的話，他比較容易腦水腫；第三個部分是財務評估，我們石署長已經對外講了，這部分要啟動HDA來做評估。"],["蘇委員清泉：是每個月打一次，還是？"],["陳副署長亮妤：目前有兩個藥提出申請，因為我不能透露是哪個藥，其中一種藥是每個月打。後續還要追蹤MRI，看他amyloid的plaques有沒有清除，就是類蛋白的堆積有沒有清除，以上。"],["蘇委員清泉：所以有的是一個月打一次，有的是打一次撐一年喔？"],["邱部長泰源：沒有，兩個禮拜啦！"],["陳副署長亮妤：對、對！有兩週的、有一個月的，但是因為我……"],["蘇委員清泉：是打皮下，還是打IV？"],["陳副署長亮妤：是IV。因為我不能透露是哪一個有申請，抱歉！"],["蘇委員清泉：沒關係啦，我們如果有需要，也都要打啊，對吧？我在看我這些親戚，還有看到林院長，林院長第8屆的時候站在那邊備詢，我看他比較內向，我跟他很熟，你們也很熟。林靜芸我更熟，我們是馬偕的嘛！林靜芸話比較多，林芳郁就很安靜，所以我覺得內向、安靜的人比較會得到喔！每天在發洩、罵人的人，我看比較不會……"],["陳副署長亮妤：跟委員報告，根據目前的研究，人格特質跟失智症的發生比較沒有關係，跟基因、環境及後天生活習慣關係性比較大，以上補充。"],["蘇委員清泉：所以還是類蛋白堆積（amyloid的堆積）在顳葉（temporal）的地方，是不是？"],["陳副署長亮妤：目前兩個理論，一個是amyloid的堆積，就是類蛋白，另外一個是tau protein的堆積。目前兩個理論都有在用，兩個都有藥物研發，以上。"],["蘇委員清泉：所以這個藥是清除類蛋白在腦部的堆積，現在是這樣嘛？"],["陳副署長亮妤：是！"],["蘇委員清泉：好，要做基因類型的檢測嗎？"],["陳副署長亮妤：是，要做基因的檢測，主要是為了副作用，擔心這個藥物引起腦水腫。目前美國研究是有33%，排除相關的基因型，他腦水腫的副作用會比較小，主要是為了病人安全，以上補充。"],["蘇委員清泉：所以我覺得每一個人都要保持頭腦動一動，像打麻將、找人吵架，這個也是有效的。所以部長，我現在每天找你吵架，你就不會失智了。這個很嚴重，我覺得非常非常嚴重，太多了，有的人是輕微，有的人就越來越嚴重，看了都很怕，所以這個藥出來真的是福音啦！自費，健保不給付，部長？"],["邱部長泰源：首先，我們要評估它本土的資料啦！"],["蘇委員清泉：OK，好。"],["邱部長泰源：這個也很重要，因為我們要驗證它的效果，再評估財務benefit跟burden，就是利弊得失。我覺得照顧失智者要多元化，如召委說的，腦筋要多動、多運動、睡飽一點、營養均衡，這個可能都是可以預防的。政府不管是在共照中心、據點，這個部分都已經有準備，其實我們那時候在醫師公會全國聯合會就辦很多長照的人員訓練，那個時候的題目就叫作失智的計畫，表示一、二十年前，我們就有在關心未來照顧失智者的議題，但那是後面的問題，我個人覺得怎麼樣早期診斷、早期預防可能也是一個重點，跟召委的意見一樣。"],["蘇委員清泉：好，我們大家一起努力啦！謝謝。"],["邱部長泰源：感謝。"],["主席：謝謝。蘇召委講的話，可能會造成內向的人心裡恐慌，還好副署長有即時的……"],["邱部長泰源：我很內向。"],["主席：你不會啦！副署長剛剛有解釋了，跟個性無關啦！跟蘇召委報告一下，個助不是沒有經費，而且已經執行一段時間，剛剛特別講到是他在評估、核可還有執行面相關的問題，個助不是沒錢啦！現在休息10分鐘，謝謝。","休息（11時5分）","繼續開會（11時18分）"],["主席：我們繼續開會。","接下來請黃秀芳委員來做詢答。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":118,"meet_id":"委員會-11-3-26-18","speakers":["劉建國","陳昭姿","林月琴","陳菁徽","邱鎮軍","王育敏","廖偉翔","蘇清泉","黃秀芳","涂權吉","王正旭","陳培瑜","范雲","陳瑩","楊曜","謝龍介","楊瓊瓔","葉元之"],"page_start":1,"meetingDate":["2025-06-23"],"gazette_id":"1146302","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1146302_00002"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第18次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、審查(一)委員劉建國等17人擬具「老人福利法第四十八條條文修正草案」案、(二)台灣民眾\n黨黨團擬具「老人福利法第四十八條條文修正草案」案；二、審查( 一) 委員許宇甄等18 人擬具\n「身心障礙者權益保障法第五十三條條文修正草案」案、(二)委員邱鎮軍等19人擬具「身心障礙\n者權益保障法第五十三條條文修正草案」案、(三)委員林月琴等17人擬具「身心障礙者權益保障\n法第五十三條條文修正草案」案、(四)委員陳菁徽等18人擬具「身心障礙者權益保障法第五十三\n條條文修正草案」案、(五)台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「身心障礙者權益保障法第五十三條條文修正草\n案」案、(六)委員范雲等17人擬具「身心障礙者權益保障法第五十三條條文修正草案」案、(七)\n委員邱若華等17人擬具「身心障礙者權益保障法第五十三條條文修正草案」案【提案第11006882\n號】、(八)委員魯明哲等19人擬具「身心障礙者權益保障法第五十三條條文修正草案」案、(九)\n委員傅崐萁等24人擬具「身心障礙者權益保障法第五十三條條文修正草案」案、(十)委員洪孟楷\n等17人擬具「身心障礙者權益保障法第五十三條條文修正草案」案、(十一)委員邱若華等17人擬\n具「身心障礙者權益保障法第五十三條條文修正草案」案【提案第11010755號】；三、審查(一)\n委員范雲等17人擬具「身心障礙者權益保障法部分條文修正草案」案、(二)委員郭昱晴等19人擬\n具「身心障礙者權益保障法第十六條條文修正草案」案、(三)委員何欣純等17人擬具「身心障礙\n者權益保障法部分條文修正草案」案、(四)委員陳冠廷等16人擬具「身心障礙者權益保障法第三\n十八條條文修正草案」案、(五)委員陳冠廷等20人擬具「身心障礙者權益保障法第二條、第五十\n三條及第九十九條條文修正草案」案、(六)委員徐富癸等18人擬具「身心障礙者權益保障法第十\n條條文修正草案」案、(七)委員羅廷瑋等16人擬具「身心障礙者權益保障法部分條文修正草案」\n案、(八)委員黃捷等17人擬具「身心障礙者權益保障法第七十一條條文修正草案」案、(九)委員\n王鴻薇等20人擬具「身心障礙者權益保障法增訂第四十條之一條文草案」案、(十)委員柯志恩等\n18人擬具「身心障礙者權益保障法增訂第四十條之一條文草案」案、(十一)委員柯志恩等17人擬\n具「身心障礙者權益保障法第六十條之一條文修正草案」案、(十二)委員馬文君等19人擬具「身\n心障礙者權益保障法第三十條之一、第五十條及第五十二條條文修正草案」案、(十三)委員廖偉\n翔等21人擬具「身心障礙者權益保障法增訂第五十條之一條文草案」案、(十四)委員廖偉翔等19\n人擬具「身心障礙者權益保障法部分條文修正草案」案、(十五)委員林楚茵等20人擬具「身心障\n礙者權益保障法第十條條文修正草案」案、(十六)委員陳菁徽等16人擬具「身心障礙者權益保障\n法部分條文修正草案」案、(十七)委員洪孟楷等18人擬具「身心障礙者權益保障法增訂第四十條\n之一條文草案」案、(十八)委員羅美玲等16人擬具「身心障礙者權益保障法部分條文修正草案」\n案、(十九)委員陳俊宇等18人擬具「身心障礙者權益保障法第七十一條條文修正草案」案、(二\n十)委員林楚茵等17人擬具「身心障礙者權益保障法第七十一條條文修正草案」案、(二十一)委\n員劉建國等17人擬具「身心障礙者權益保障法第七十一條條文修正草案」案、(二十二)委員邱若\n華等17人擬具「身心障礙者權益保障法第七十一條條文修正草案」案、(二十三)委員劉建國等17\n人擬具「身心障礙者權益保障法部分條文修正草案」案【第一案至第三案採綜合詢答；本日僅處\n理第一案及第二案】","agenda_id":"1146302_00001"}}}