{"id":162783,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/162783","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/b58c4cf52db2e91a7709568237e87a3bb9483b76f331b600da6ae3643212cc5fe8a977c2421e346e5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"涂權吉","委員發言時間":"11:31:30 - 11:44:14","影片長度":"00:12:44","會議時間":"2025-06-23T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第3會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第18次全體委員會議（事由：一、審查\n（一）委員劉建國等17人擬具「老人福利法第四十八條條文修正草案」案。\n（二）台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「老人福利法第四十八條條文修正草案」案。\n二、審查\n  委員許宇甄等18人、委員邱鎮軍等19人、委員林月琴等17人、委員陳菁徽等18人、台灣民眾黨黨團、委員范雲等17人、委員邱若華等17人【提案第11006882號】、委員魯明哲等19人、委員傅崐萁等24人、委員洪孟楷等17人、委員邱若華等17人【提案第11010755號】分別擬具「身心障礙者權益保障法第五十三條條文修正草案」等11案。\n三、審查\n（一）委員范雲等17人、委員何欣純等17人、委員羅廷瑋等16人、委員廖偉翔等19人、委員陳菁徽等16人、委員羅美玲等16人、委員劉建國等17人分別擬具「身心障礙者權益保障法部分條文修正草案」等7案。\n（二）委員郭昱晴等19人擬具「身心障礙者權益保障法第十六條條文修正草案」案。\n（三）委員陳冠廷等16人擬具「身心障礙者權益保障法第三十八條條文修正草案」案。\n（四）委員陳冠廷等20人擬具「身心障礙者權益保障法第二條、第五十三條及第九十九條條文修正草案」案。\n（五）委員徐富癸等18人擬具「身心障礙者權益保障法第十條條文修正草案」案。\n（六）委員黃捷等17人擬具「身心障礙者權益保障法第七十一條條文修正草案」案。\n（七）委員王鴻薇等20人擬具「身心障礙者權益保障法增訂第四十條之一條文草案」案。\n（八）委員柯志恩等18人擬具「身心障礙者權益保障法增訂第四十條之一條文草案」案。\n（九）委員柯志恩等17人擬具「身心障礙者權益保障法第六十條之一條文修正草案」案。\n（十）委員馬文君等19人擬具「身心障礙者權益保障法第三十條之一、第五十條及第五十二條條文修正草案」案。\n（十一）委員廖偉翔等21人擬具「身心障礙者權益保障法增訂第五十條之一條文草案」案。\n（十二）委員林楚茵等20人擬具「身心障礙者權益保障法第十條條文修正草案」案。\n（十三）委員洪孟楷等18人擬具「身心障礙者權益保障法增訂第四十條之一條文草案」案。\n（十四）委員陳俊宇等18人擬具「身心障礙者權益保障法第七十一條條文修正草案」案。\n（十五）委員林楚茵等17人擬具「身心障礙者權益保障法第七十一條條文修正草案」案。\n（十六）委員劉建國等17人擬具「身心障礙者權益保障法第七十一條條文修正草案」案。\n（十七）委員邱若華等17人擬具「身心障礙者權益保障法第七十一條條文修正草案」案。\n【第一案至第三案採綜合詢答；本日僅處理第一案及第二案。】\n【6月23日、25日及26日三天一次會】）","type":"Clip","date":"2025-06-23","start_time":"2025-06-23T11:31:30+08:00","end_time":"2025-06-23T11:44:14+08:00","duration":764,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第3會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第18次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":3,"sessionTimes":18,"committees":[26],"id":"委員會-11-3-26-18"},"features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"transcript":{"id":"162783","pyannote":{"name":"ronny","tool":"pyannote","data":{"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/162783","tool":"pyannote","id":"162783-pyannote"},"job_id":"h5Y3SiTwnm64z4h4","queued_at":"2025-06-23 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43.219, \"end\": 43.379, \"score\": 0.878}, {\"word\": \"下\", \"start\": 43.379, \"end\": 44.619, \"score\": 0.966}, {\"word\": \"當\"}, {\"word\": \"喜\", \"start\": 44.619, \"end\": 45.299, \"score\": 0.929}, {\"word\": \"憨\"}, {\"word\": \"兒\"}, {\"word\": \"老\", \"start\": 45.299, \"end\": 45.519, \"score\": 0.992}, {\"word\": \"了\", \"start\": 45.519, \"end\": 45.679, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 45.679, \"end\": 46.46, \"score\": 0.945}, {\"word\": \"後\", \"start\": 46.46, \"end\": 46.62, \"score\": 0.868}, {\"word\": \"誰\"}, {\"word\": \"要\", \"start\": 46.62, \"end\": 47.12, \"score\": 0.934}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"照\", \"start\": 47.12, \"end\": 47.62, \"score\": 0.944}, {\"word\": \"顧\"}, {\"word\": \"他\", \"start\": 47.62, \"end\": 48.62, \"score\": 0.949}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 48.62, \"end\": 48.78, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"分\", \"start\": 48.78, \"end\": 48.96, \"score\": 0.936}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 48.96, \"end\": 50.041, \"score\": 0.958}, {\"word\": \"問\"}, {\"word\": \"題\"}, {\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 50.041, \"end\": 50.281, \"score\": 0.969}, {\"word\": \"尤\", \"start\": 50.281, \"end\": 50.521, \"score\": 0.935}, {\"word\": \"其\", \"start\": 50.521, \"end\": 50.761, \"score\": 0.931}, {\"word\": \"喜\", \"start\": 50.761, \"end\": 51.441, \"score\": 0.945}, {\"word\": \"憨\"}, {\"word\": \"兒\"}, {\"word\": \"他\", \"start\": 51.441, \"end\": 51.601, \"score\": 0.974}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 51.601, \"end\": 52.302, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"生\", \"start\": 52.302, \"end\": 52.542, \"score\": 0.915}, {\"word\": \"理\", \"start\": 52.542, \"end\": 52.742, \"score\": 0.925}, {\"word\": \"跟\", \"start\": 52.742, \"end\": 53.542, \"score\": 0.974}, {\"word\": \"認\"}, {\"word\": \"知\", \"start\": 53.542, \"end\": 53.722, \"score\": 0.943}, {\"word\": \"功\", \"start\": 53.722, \"end\": 53.922, \"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"能\", \"start\": 53.922, \"end\": 54.222, \"score\": 0.987}, {\"word\": \"上\", \"start\": 54.222, \"end\": 55.043, \"score\": 0.956}, {\"word\": \"他\", \"start\": 55.043, \"end\": 55.183, \"score\": 0.982}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 55.183, \"end\": 55.363, \"score\": 0.995}, {\"word\": \"退\", \"start\": 55.363, \"end\": 55.563, \"score\": 0.996}, {\"word\": \"化\", \"start\": 55.563, \"end\": 55.803, \"score\": 0.926}, {\"word\": \"速\", \"start\": 55.803, \"end\": 56.003, \"score\": 0.979}, {\"word\": \"度\", \"start\": 56.003, \"end\": 56.563, \"score\": 0.986}, {\"word\": \"也\", \"start\": 56.563, \"end\": 56.743, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"比\", \"start\": 56.743, \"end\": 56.923, \"score\": 0.995}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 56.923, \"end\": 57.103, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"般\", \"start\": 57.103, \"end\": 57.303, \"score\": 0.989}, {\"word\": \"人\", \"start\": 57.303, \"end\": 57.784, \"score\": 0.954}, {\"word\": \"快\", \"start\": 57.784, \"end\": 58.644, \"score\": 0.925}, {\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 58.644, \"end\": 58.664, \"score\": 0.866}]}, {\"start\": 59.949, \"end\": 79.614, \"text\": \"智能障礙者大概40歲以後大概就進入老化那比我們法定的65歲大概還要早20年那我們的制度如果用65歲才來進入服務進入的門檻等於說這個族群的人就錯過了大概20年的黃金照顧期\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"智\", \"start\": 59.949, \"end\": 60.109, \"score\": 0.94}, {\"word\": \"能\", \"start\": 60.109, \"end\": 60.309, \"score\": 0.984}, {\"word\": \"障\", \"start\": 60.309, \"end\": 60.629, \"score\": 0.877}, {\"word\": \"礙\"}, {\"word\": \"者\", \"start\": 60.629, \"end\": 60.809, \"score\": 0.976}, {\"word\": \"大\", \"start\": 60.809, \"end\": 60.969, \"score\": 0.995}, {\"word\": \"概\", \"start\": 60.969, \"end\": 62.17, \"score\": 0.949}, {\"word\": \"4\"}, {\"word\": \"0\"}, {\"word\": \"歲\"}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 62.17, \"end\": 62.33, \"score\": 0.995}, {\"word\": \"後\", \"start\": 62.33, \"end\": 62.59, \"score\": 0.923}, {\"word\": \"大\", \"start\": 62.59, \"end\": 62.71, \"score\": 0.993}, {\"word\": \"概\", \"start\": 62.71, \"end\": 62.85, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 62.85, \"end\": 63.17, \"score\": 0.937}, {\"word\": \"進\"}, {\"word\": \"入\", \"start\": 63.17, \"end\": 63.35, \"score\": 0.975}, {\"word\": \"老\", \"start\": 63.35, \"end\": 63.65, \"score\": 0.978}, {\"word\": \"化\", \"start\": 63.65, \"end\": 64.45, \"score\": 0.96}, {\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 64.45, \"end\": 64.73, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"比\", \"start\": 64.73, \"end\": 64.81, \"score\": 0.88}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 64.81, \"end\": 65.19, \"score\": 0.894}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"法\", \"start\": 65.19, \"end\": 65.39, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"定\", \"start\": 65.39, \"end\": 65.57, \"score\": 0.898}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 65.57, \"end\": 67.131, \"score\": 0.947}, {\"word\": \"6\"}, {\"word\": \"5\"}, {\"word\": \"歲\"}, {\"word\": \"大\", \"start\": 67.131, \"end\": 67.271, \"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"概\", \"start\": 67.271, \"end\": 67.551, \"score\": 0.925}, {\"word\": \"還\"}, {\"word\": \"要\", \"start\": 67.551, \"end\": 67.751, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"早\", \"start\": 67.751, \"end\": 68.531, \"score\": 0.926}, {\"word\": \"2\"}, {\"word\": \"0\"}, {\"word\": \"年\", \"start\": 68.531, \"end\": 69.371, \"score\": 0.985}, {\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 69.371, \"end\": 69.551, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 69.551, \"end\": 69.951, \"score\": 0.906}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 69.951, \"end\": 70.191, \"score\": 0.975}, {\"word\": \"制\", \"start\": 70.191, \"end\": 70.432, \"score\": 0.93}, {\"word\": \"度\", \"start\": 70.432, \"end\": 70.752, \"score\": 0.94}, {\"word\": \"如\", \"start\": 70.752, \"end\": 70.952, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"果\", \"start\": 70.952, \"end\": 71.092, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"用\", \"start\": 71.092, \"end\": 72.292, \"score\": 0.949}, {\"word\": \"6\"}, {\"word\": \"5\"}, {\"word\": \"歲\"}, {\"word\": \"才\", \"start\": 72.292, \"end\": 72.832, \"score\": 0.924}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"進\"}, {\"word\": \"入\", \"start\": 72.832, \"end\": 73.412, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"服\", \"start\": 73.412, \"end\": 73.892, \"score\": 0.916}, {\"word\": \"務\"}, {\"word\": \"進\"}, {\"word\": \"入\", \"start\": 73.892, \"end\": 74.072, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 74.072, \"end\": 75.033, \"score\": 0.943}, {\"word\": \"門\"}, {\"word\": \"檻\"}, {\"word\": \"等\", \"start\": 75.033, \"end\": 75.213, \"score\": 0.896}, {\"word\": \"於\", \"start\": 75.213, \"end\": 75.873, \"score\": 0.879}, {\"word\": \"說\"}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"族\", \"start\": 75.873, \"end\": 76.113, \"score\": 0.951}, {\"word\": \"群\", \"start\": 76.113, \"end\": 76.273, \"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 76.273, \"end\": 76.413, \"score\": 0.996}, {\"word\": \"人\", \"start\": 76.413, \"end\": 77.153, \"score\": 0.972}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 77.153, \"end\": 77.813, \"score\": 0.911}, {\"word\": \"錯\"}, {\"word\": \"過\"}, {\"word\": \"了\", \"start\": 77.813, \"end\": 77.953, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"大\", \"start\": 77.953, \"end\": 78.093, \"score\": 0.863}, {\"word\": \"概\", \"start\": 78.093, \"end\": 78.613, \"score\": 0.92}, {\"word\": \"2\"}, {\"word\": \"0\"}, {\"word\": \"年\", \"start\": 78.613, \"end\": 78.754, \"score\": 0.858}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 78.754, \"end\": 79.174, \"score\": 0.952}, {\"word\": \"黃\"}, {\"word\": \"金\", \"start\": 79.174, \"end\": 79.374, \"score\": 0.98}, {\"word\": \"照\", \"start\": 79.374, \"end\": 79.594, \"score\": 0.948}, {\"word\": \"顧\"}, {\"word\": \"期\", \"start\": 79.594, \"end\": 79.614, \"score\": 0.0}]}, {\"start\": 80.934, \"end\": 101.027, \"text\": \"那我請問一下部長那針對我們有了解到像2022年教育部中度智能障礙者在臺灣大概有7萬人那2015到2025年我們看一下臺灣智能障礙者在機構照顧的比例部長大概知道這是多少嗎\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 80.934, \"end\": 81.094, \"score\": 0.917}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 81.094, \"end\": 81.394, \"score\": 0.921}, {\"word\": \"請\"}, {\"word\": \"問\"}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 81.394, \"end\": 81.534, \"score\": 0.831}, {\"word\": \"下\", \"start\": 81.534, \"end\": 81.735, \"score\": 0.995}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 81.735, \"end\": 82.675, \"score\": 0.929}, {\"word\": \"長\"}, {\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 82.675, \"end\": 83.976, \"score\": 0.957}, {\"word\": \"針\"}, {\"word\": \"對\"}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 83.976, \"end\": 84.236, \"score\": 0.919}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 84.236, \"end\": 84.376, \"score\": 0.995}, {\"word\": \"了\", \"start\": 84.376, \"end\": 84.616, \"score\": 0.911}, {\"word\": \"解\", \"start\": 84.616, \"end\": 84.796, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"到\", \"start\": 84.796, \"end\": 84.977, \"score\": 0.908}, {\"word\": \"像\", \"start\": 84.977, \"end\": 86.017, \"score\": 0.897}, {\"word\": \"2\"}, {\"word\": \"0\"}, {\"word\": \"2\"}, {\"word\": \"2\"}, {\"word\": \"年\", \"start\": 86.017, \"end\": 86.277, \"score\": 0.972}, {\"word\": \"教\", \"start\": 86.277, \"end\": 86.478, \"score\": 0.987}, {\"word\": \"育\", \"start\": 86.478, \"end\": 86.598, \"score\": 0.951}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 86.598, \"end\": 87.838, \"score\": 0.977}, {\"word\": \"中\", \"start\": 87.838, \"end\": 88.119, \"score\": 0.974}, {\"word\": \"度\", \"start\": 88.119, \"end\": 88.879, \"score\": 0.988}, {\"word\": \"智\", \"start\": 88.879, \"end\": 89.039, \"score\": 0.927}, {\"word\": \"能\", \"start\": 89.039, \"end\": 89.219, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"障\", \"start\": 89.219, \"end\": 89.559, \"score\": 0.88}, {\"word\": \"礙\"}, {\"word\": \"者\", \"start\": 89.559, \"end\": 89.74, \"score\": 0.886}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 89.74, \"end\": 90.5, \"score\": 0.918}, {\"word\": \"臺\"}, {\"word\": \"灣\"}, {\"word\": \"大\", \"start\": 90.5, \"end\": 90.6, \"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"概\", \"start\": 90.6, \"end\": 90.72, \"score\": 0.982}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 90.72, \"end\": 91.341, \"score\": 0.931}, {\"word\": \"7\"}, {\"word\": \"萬\"}, {\"word\": \"人\", \"start\": 91.341, 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{\"word\": \"者\", \"start\": 96.364, \"end\": 96.524, \"score\": 0.876}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 96.524, \"end\": 97.765, \"score\": 0.967}, {\"word\": \"機\"}, {\"word\": \"構\"}, {\"word\": \"照\", \"start\": 97.765, \"end\": 98.145, \"score\": 0.92}, {\"word\": \"顧\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 98.145, \"end\": 98.345, \"score\": 0.995}, {\"word\": \"比\", \"start\": 98.345, \"end\": 98.605, \"score\": 0.965}, {\"word\": \"例\", \"start\": 98.605, \"end\": 99.546, \"score\": 0.987}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 99.546, \"end\": 99.946, \"score\": 0.897}, {\"word\": \"長\"}, {\"word\": \"大\", \"start\": 99.946, \"end\": 100.066, \"score\": 0.977}, {\"word\": \"概\", \"start\": 100.066, \"end\": 100.246, \"score\": 0.988}, {\"word\": \"知\", \"start\": 100.246, \"end\": 100.326, \"score\": 0.781}, {\"word\": \"道\", \"start\": 100.326, \"end\": 100.666, \"score\": 0.933}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 100.666, \"end\": 100.826, \"score\": 0.858}, {\"word\": \"多\", \"start\": 100.826, \"end\": 101.007, \"score\": 0.993}, {\"word\": \"少\", \"start\": 101.007, \"end\": 101.027, \"score\": 0.991}, {\"word\": \"嗎\"}]}, {\"start\": 102.332, \"end\": 122.634, \"text\": \"我們機構照顧臺灣智能障礙者比例沒關係這上面有那我們據我們的資料顯示我們大概機構照顧的比例大概只有5%表示說他大部分照顧的主流還是要仰賴家庭來照顧那我們目前全臺身心障礙\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 102.332, \"end\": 103.033, \"score\": 0.889}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"機\"}, {\"word\": \"構\"}, {\"word\": \"照\", \"start\": 103.033, \"end\": 103.834, \"score\": 0.922}, {\"word\": \"顧\"}, {\"word\": \"臺\"}, {\"word\": \"灣\"}, {\"word\": \"智\", \"start\": 103.834, \"end\": 103.974, \"score\": 0.883}, {\"word\": \"能\", \"start\": 103.974, \"end\": 104.154, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"障\", \"start\": 104.154, \"end\": 104.434, \"score\": 0.857}, {\"word\": \"礙\"}, {\"word\": \"者\", \"start\": 104.434, \"end\": 104.614, \"score\": 0.994}, {\"word\": \"比\", \"start\": 104.614, \"end\": 104.775, \"score\": 0.993}, {\"word\": \"例\", \"start\": 104.775, \"end\": 105.676, \"score\": 0.972}, {\"word\": \"沒\", \"start\": 105.676, \"end\": 106.477, \"score\": 0.883}, {\"word\": \"關\"}, {\"word\": \"係\"}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"上\", \"start\": 106.477, \"end\": 106.637, \"score\": 0.875}, {\"word\": \"面\", \"start\": 106.637, \"end\": 106.817, \"score\": 0.947}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 106.817, \"end\": 107.498, \"score\": 0.981}, {\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 107.498, \"end\": 107.678, \"score\": 0.983}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 107.678, \"end\": 108.218, \"score\": 0.924}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"據\"}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 108.218, \"end\": 108.419, \"score\": 0.894}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 108.419, \"end\": 108.719, \"score\": 0.933}, {\"word\": \"資\"}, {\"word\": \"料\", \"start\": 108.719, \"end\": 109.199, \"score\": 0.957}, {\"word\": \"顯\"}, {\"word\": \"示\", \"start\": 109.199, \"end\": 110.06, \"score\": 0.977}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 110.06, \"end\": 110.361, 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\"劉\"}, {\"word\": \"建\", \"start\": 758.212, \"end\": 758.333, \"score\": 0.799}, {\"word\": \"國\"}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 758.333, \"end\": 758.353, \"score\": 0.009}, {\"word\": \"員\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:07,251 --> 00:00:35,116\n好謝謝主席那請我們邱部長還有我們長照師我們祝市長請邱部長跟祝市長委員好部長那今年農曆年因為我們有去桃園新屋小做手訪市順便找廠商去採購他們一些的小禮品那當然我們去現場遇到很多身心障礙的弱勢的族群\n\n2\n00:00:35,856 --> 00:00:58,664\n那也就是我們大家俗稱的喜憨兒也就是智能障礙者那今天我們就想說來討論一下當喜憨兒老了以後誰要來照顧他們這部分的問題那尤其喜憨兒他在生理跟認知功能上他的退化速度也比一般人快那\n\n3\n00:00:59,949 --> 00:01:19,614\n智能障礙者大概40歲以後大概就進入老化那比我們法定的65歲大概還要早20年那我們的制度如果用65歲才來進入服務進入的門檻等於說這個族群的人就錯過了大概20年的黃金照顧期\n\n4\n00:01:20,934 --> 00:01:41,027\n那我請問一下部長那針對我們有了解到像2022年教育部中度智能障礙者在臺灣大概有7萬人那2015到2025年我們看一下臺灣智能障礙者在機構照顧的比例部長大概知道這是多少嗎\n\n5\n00:01:42,332 --> 00:02:02,634\n我們機構照顧臺灣智能障礙者比例沒關係這上面有那我們據我們的資料顯示我們大概機構照顧的比例大概只有5%表示說他大部分照顧的主流還是要仰賴家庭來照顧那我們目前全臺身心障礙\n\n6\n00:02:03,635 --> 00:02:24,240\n福利機構我們查了一下大概有226家那從數據上顯示我們可以了解到其實我們機構明顯的不足那即便現在我們有推日間照顧及社區居住的替代服務這部分也在發展在推廣但是這個目前的規模我們看還是有限\n\n7\n00:02:25,140 --> 00:02:48,582\n那如果這些智能障礙者他到了40歲之後他還是要仰賴父母的照顧那我們想了解一下40歲以後他的父母親也老了那父母親也要人家照顧那這些智能障礙者自己也需要人照顧那我們這一部分我們衛福部有沒有什麼規劃來介入幫忙\n\n8\n00:02:49,485 --> 00:03:18,518\n好非常謝謝委員關心到這個非常重要而且我們可以慢慢形成一個很重要的必須要關注的問題我們最近到一些相關的機構去看的確也發現了這個相當重要的問題所以真的很感謝那我們在身心障礙者其實他是前領的前領的納入啦在長照2.0就已經把前領的納入所以基本上他\n\n9\n00:03:19,478 --> 00:03:47,151\n只要身心障礙者理論上都應該可以得到強照的沒有限制65歲的不是可是我們剛剛有講你機構照顧的其實只有5%他其他的可以說95%還是仰賴家庭照顧那家庭照顧他到40歲以後其實整體我們智能障礙者他老化的速度比一般人還快你看他到40歲之後他父母親也老了那這一部分我們\n\n10\n00:03:48,692 --> 00:04:07,711\n機構只有照顧5%那其他的部分我們衛福部有沒有注意到這個問題好薛委員是不是這個部分有請社交使來幫忙做代理市長跟委員報告那我們現在在114年到117年有一個身心障礙者社區照顧服務的資源部件計畫\n\n11\n00:04:08,752 --> 00:04:27,203\n那我們預期在114到117年我們會在社區去增加相關對於身障者的這些服務的據點那預計在到今年3月底至我們大概已經有1,127個據點已經服務到2萬人左右那預計在到100我們的計畫啟程到117年會再增加695處據點可以再增加大概1萬零500人左右\n\n12\n00:04:39,253 --> 00:04:41,543\n大概會到三萬接近三萬一千人\n\n13\n00:04:42,743 --> 00:05:09,841\n這是整個的我們大概整個的對剛剛我有講嘛因為我們現在日宣照顧跟社區居住替代服務我知道有逐漸在發展在推廣但是我們目前看起來這個進度規模還是有限所以我們希望今天提出來就是希望在這一部分我們還是要好好的替他們來規劃這些身障老者我們希望說基本上能夠有一個完整的規劃然後衛福部來重視這件事情好\n\n14\n00:05:11,007 --> 00:05:14,528\n好我們這個很重要我們一定來重視好那請衛福部來針對這部分來幫我們好好來規劃一下好那針對我們現在我們長照3.0是透過84量表來評估個案\n\n15\n00:05:26,926 --> 00:05:50,059\n那他評估的重點是評估他是否有生活治理能力那可是一樣對於喜憨兒這部分他們很多生活可以治理但是我們知道他在認知情緒社交各方面都有一些重重的障礙但是我們在造福評估\n\n16\n00:05:51,460 --> 00:06:14,510\n這一部分可能評估的結果是不符合失能那針對這一部分我們針對這一部分有沒有對他們因為你評估的結果可能他會沒有達到這巴斯量表的標準他生活上可能可以治理但是他在認知情緒社交方面可能沒有辦法達到那可是這一部分我們要如何去照顧他們\n\n17\n00:06:15,310 --> 00:06:37,430\n好的謝謝委員的指教那我想長照基本上是用CMS在評估量表來處理那巴士量表其實是在評估要聘外籍看護那這個部分委員所提到的是不是我們怎麼樣來作權性的來評估這個是不是市長回答一下\n\n18\n00:06:40,766 --> 00:07:00,694\n長照的這邊的評估不是用所謂的巴士量表長照3.0不是用巴士量表如果您關心的是巴士量表這邊是不是可以有一些做一些調整那基本上因為現在的這個聘外刊的那一塊現在有非常多多元免評的機制\n\n19\n00:07:01,914 --> 00:07:17,986\n那所以這個目前在勞動部這些相關的法規跟我們衛福部一起合作的部分已經有非常多的一些多元免評的對象不見得是要走到醫院去做這樣的巴士量表的評估所以因為我們\n\n20\n00:07:18,746 --> 00:07:36,045\n提出的意思說你針對他是不是能夠治理有沒有符合失能這部分單就八十兩秒部分可能對於這些身障老者可能就沒有辦法達到嘛所以我們也希望說對於失能評估工具的指標是不是可以納入\n\n21\n00:07:36,565 --> 00:08:00,101\n非身體性障礙的功能性退化指標這一部分是不是可以納入現況就已經有我們的CMS的評估量表就是多元評估量表裡面對於最有情緒困擾的還有一些心智障礙類的這個部分已經都有納進去所以這部分已經有幫他納入了嗎是好那也希望說這一部分好好幫我們加強一下\n\n22\n00:08:01,124 --> 00:08:24,190\n那還有我們喜安兒如果過了65歲他可能在身上體性裡面他日間照顧可能無法繼續使用因為有可能這些身障的老人他到長照老人日間照顧中心他可能會被拒收因為據我們了解因為他們\n\n23\n00:08:25,510 --> 00:08:36,678\n心智障礙可能會吵鬧甚至會有攻擊性的行為所以對於這些身上老者可能他去這些照顧中心可能會被拒收會不會有面臨這樣的問題沒有辦法解決\n\n24\n00:08:41,096 --> 00:09:01,021\n委員關心這件事情其實我們在長照2.0及支付上路的時候針對有情緒困擾或者是不好照顧的對象我們都有加成的給付就是所謂的A碼的政策性的加成補助來幫忙讓這項的一個這個服務提供單位有這個意願來照顧這些困難照顧的對象\n\n25\n00:09:03,922 --> 00:09:25,770\n我們後來又針對失智症有伴隨BPSD就是所謂的情緒行為這些困擾的這樣的對象我們又額外再有一個加成所以其實這個對於困難照顧的部分其實都有兩個層次的一個相關的加成因為據我們了解其實像很多機構他們要收\n\n26\n00:09:26,730 --> 00:09:55,518\n我們喜安的這些老者其實他們也困擾所以他們都是盡量其實我們會感覺說他盡量是不收啦因為他也怕造成他的困擾或者影響到其他人所以我們說是不是針對這部分應該針對身障長者我們要有一個單一的服務窗口可以統整我們日間照顧喘息跟安置這些福利的轉介是不是可以針對他們這部分成立一個單一的服務窗口\n\n27\n00:09:57,624 --> 00:10:19,400\n現階段其實包括今天是以障礙身份進到長照體系或者以老人身份進到長照體系本來就有一個橫向的聯繫的平台因為我們擔心他會變成長照體系中的孤兒其實雖然說在規劃在裡面但是其實機構來講他們是傾向不願意去收他們\n\n28\n00:10:20,856 --> 00:10:34,777\n我們這一塊我們來努力那因為基本上目前的這個日照中心的有全國有一千多家那對於這個如果要專收障礙者這種尤其是心智障礙的話\n\n29\n00:10:35,618 --> 00:10:54,277\n那它基本上它的加速它的可靜性就不高因為畢竟日照中心就是要方便這個交通接送可以抵達的到的所以目前我們的政策上也不是在長照體系不會說去特別有一些專一來針對什麼樣的類型的障礙者的一個日照\n\n30\n00:10:54,937 --> 00:11:18,977\n這樣子其實他真的就是沒有辦法達到進變性的一個議題所以我們希望是這一千多家都能夠服務各種不同採取共融的對因為據我們了解因為身上長者可能對這些機構可能他們其實真的就是傾向盡量不收因為所以我們擔心他會成為我們長照體系中的孤兒因為你看\n\n31\n00:11:19,577 --> 00:11:38,308\n我們這個機構裡面照顧他們的只有5%他95%基本上都是家庭照顧那家庭照顧他到40歲老了以後他的父母親更老父母親也需要人家照顧他如果去照顧這些身障的長者所以我們希望長照3.0居然說要照顧全人\n\n32\n00:11:41,230 --> 00:12:06,061\n全靈全責任我也希望衛福部能夠具體針對我們身上長者這一部分能夠做一個改善也希望能夠納入我們後續的討論針對這一部分能夠來著重我們會來關注這個議題因為這一部分其實我們在地方都知道因為他們本身一些情緒甚至攻擊的行為長照體系其實\n\n33\n00:12:08,662 --> 00:12:25,155\n幾乎都是能不收就盡量不收啦所以我們擔心他會變成長照體系的孤兒針對這部分是不是單一個窗口特別來服務他們我們一定來設立這樣的一個最好的機制最方便的機制讓他們真的不要被忽略掉\n\n34\n00:12:25,555 --> 00:12:38,353\n對啊因為我們說居然要推長照3.0居然全人全靈全責任好希望這一部分能夠突顯一定不能遺漏任何一個對對對這一部分希望我們衛福部來重視好的好的沒有問題好謝謝感謝部長好謝謝圖權級委員接下來請劉建國委員\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n7251\t35116\t好 謝謝主席那請我們邱部長還有我們長照師我們祝市長請邱部長跟祝市長委員好部長那今年農曆年因為我們有去桃園新屋小做手訪市順便找廠商去採購他們一些的小禮品那當然我們去現場遇到很多身心障礙的弱勢的族群\n35856\t58664\t那也就是我們大家俗稱的喜憨兒也就是智能障礙者那今天我們就想說來討論一下當喜憨兒老了以後誰要來照顧他們這部分的問題那尤其喜憨兒他在生理跟認知功能上他的退化速度也比一般人快那\n59949\t79614\t智能障礙者大概40歲以後大概就進入老化那比我們法定的65歲大概還要早20年那我們的制度如果用65歲才來進入服務進入的門檻等於說這個族群的人就錯過了大概20年的黃金照顧期\n80934\t101027\t那我請問一下部長那針對我們有了解到像2022年教育部中度智能障礙者在臺灣大概有7萬人那2015到2025年我們看一下臺灣智能障礙者在機構照顧的比例部長大概知道這是多少嗎\n102332\t122634\t我們機構照顧臺灣智能障礙者比例沒關係這上面有那我們據我們的資料顯示我們大概機構照顧的比例大概只有5%表示說他大部分照顧的主流還是要仰賴家庭來照顧那我們目前全臺身心障礙\n123635\t144240\t福利機構我們查了一下大概有226家那從數據上顯示我們可以了解到其實我們機構明顯的不足那即便現在我們有推日間照顧及社區居住的替代服務這部分也在發展在推廣但是這個目前的規模我們看還是有限\n145140\t168582\t那如果這些智能障礙者他到了40歲之後他還是要仰賴父母的照顧那我們想了解一下40歲以後他的父母親也老了那父母親也要人家照顧那這些智能障礙者自己也需要人照顧那我們這一部分我們衛福部有沒有什麼規劃來介入幫忙\n169485\t198518\t好非常謝謝委員關心到這個非常重要而且我們可以慢慢形成一個很重要的必須要關注的問題我們最近到一些相關的機構去看的確也發現了這個相當重要的問題所以真的很感謝那我們在身心障礙者其實他是前領的前領的納入啦在長照2.0就已經把前領的納入所以基本上他\n199478\t227151\t只要身心障礙者理論上都應該可以得到強照的沒有限制65歲的不是 可是我們剛剛有講你機構照顧的其實只有5%他其他的可以說95%還是仰賴家庭照顧那家庭照顧他到40歲以後其實整體我們智能障礙者他老化的速度比一般人還快你看他到40歲之後他父母親也老了那這一部分我們\n228692\t247711\t機構只有照顧5%那其他的部分我們衛福部有沒有注意到這個問題好 薛委員是不是這個部分有請社交使來幫忙做代理市長跟委員報告那我們現在在114年到117年有一個身心障礙者社區照顧服務的資源部件計畫\n248752\t267203\t那我們預期在114到117年我們會在社區去增加相關對於身障者的這些服務的據點那預計在到今年3月底至我們大概已經有1,127個據點已經服務到2萬人左右那預計在到100我們的計畫啟程到117年會再增加695處據點可以再增加大概1萬零500人左右\n279253\t281543\t大概會到三萬 接近三萬一千人\n282743\t309841\t這是整個的 我們大概整個的對 剛剛我有講嘛因為我們現在日宣照顧跟社區居住替代服務我知道有逐漸在發展在推廣但是我們目前看起來這個進度規模還是有限所以我們希望今天提出來就是希望在這一部分我們還是要好好的替他們來規劃這些身障老者我們希望說基本上能夠有一個完整的規劃然後衛福部來重視這件事情好\n311007\t314528\t好我們這個很重要我們一定來重視好那請衛福部來針對這部分來幫我們好好來規劃一下好那針對我們現在我們長照3.0是透過84量表來評估個案\n326926\t350059\t那他評估的重點是評估他是否有生活治理能力那可是一樣對於喜憨兒這部分他們很多生活可以治理但是我們知道他在認知情緒社交各方面都有一些重重的障礙但是我們在造福評估\n351460\t374510\t這一部分可能評估的結果是不符合失能那針對這一部分我們針對這一部分有沒有對他們因為你評估的結果可能他會沒有達到這巴斯量表的標準他生活上可能可以治理但是他在認知情緒社交方面可能沒有辦法達到那可是這一部分我們要如何去照顧他們\n375310\t397430\t好的謝謝委員的指教那我想長照基本上是用CMS在評估量表來處理那巴士量表其實是在評估要聘外籍看護那這個部分委員所提到的是不是我們怎麼樣來作權性的來評估這個是不是市長回答一下\n400766\t420694\t長照的這邊的評估不是用所謂的巴士量表長照3.0不是用巴士量表如果您關心的是巴士量表這邊是不是可以有一些做一些調整那基本上因為現在的這個聘外刊的那一塊現在有非常多多元免評的機制\n421914\t437986\t那所以這個目前在勞動部這些相關的法規跟我們衛福部一起合作的部分已經有非常多的一些多元免評的對象不見得是要走到醫院去做這樣的巴士量表的評估所以因為我們\n438746\t456045\t提出的意思說你針對他是不是能夠治理有沒有符合失能這部分單就八十兩秒部分可能對於這些身障老者可能就沒有辦法達到嘛所以我們也希望說對於失能評估工具的指標是不是可以納入\n456565\t480101\t非身體性障礙的功能性退化指標這一部分是不是可以納入現況就已經有我們的CMS的評估量表就是多元評估量表裡面對於最有情緒困擾的還有一些心智障礙類的這個部分已經都有納進去所以這部分已經有幫他納入了嗎是好 那也希望說這一部分好好幫我們加強一下\n481124\t504190\t那還有我們喜安兒如果過了65歲他可能在身上體性裡面他日間照顧可能無法繼續使用因為有可能這些身障的老人他到長照老人日間照顧中心他可能會被拒收因為據我們了解因為他們\n505510\t516678\t心智障礙可能會吵鬧甚至會有攻擊性的行為所以對於這些身上老者可能他去這些照顧中心可能會被拒收會不會有面臨這樣的問題沒有辦法解決\n521096\t541021\t委員關心這件事情其實我們在長照2.0及支付上路的時候針對有情緒困擾或者是不好照顧的對象我們都有加成的給付就是所謂的A碼的政策性的加成補助來幫忙讓這項的一個這個服務提供單位有這個意願來照顧這些困難照顧的對象\n543922\t565770\t我們後來又針對失智症有伴隨BPSD就是所謂的情緒行為這些困擾的這樣的對象我們又額外再有一個加成所以其實這個對於困難照顧的部分其實都有兩個層次的一個相關的加成因為據我們了解其實像很多機構他們要收\n566730\t595518\t我們喜安的這些老者其實他們也困擾所以他們都是盡量其實我們會感覺說他盡量是不收啦因為他也怕造成他的困擾或者影響到其他人所以我們說是不是針對這部分應該針對身障長者我們要有一個單一的服務窗口可以統整我們日間照顧喘息跟安置這些福利的轉介是不是可以針對他們這部分成立一個單一的服務窗口\n597624\t619400\t現階段其實包括今天是以障礙身份進到長照體系或者以老人身份進到長照體系本來就有一個橫向的聯繫的平台因為我們擔心他會變成長照體系中的孤兒其實雖然說在規劃在裡面但是其實機構來講他們是傾向不願意去收他們\n620856\t634777\t我們這一塊我們來努力那因為基本上目前的這個日照中心的有全國有一千多家那對於這個如果要專收障礙者這種尤其是心智障礙的話\n635618\t654277\t那它基本上它的加速它的可靜性就不高因為畢竟日照中心就是要方便這個交通接送可以抵達的到的所以目前我們的政策上也不是在長照體系不會說去特別有一些專一來針對什麼樣的類型的障礙者的一個日照\n654937\t678977\t這樣子其實他真的就是沒有辦法達到進變性的一個議題所以我們希望是這一千多家都能夠服務各種不同採取共融的對因為據我們了解因為身上長者可能對這些機構可能他們其實真的就是傾向盡量不收因為所以我們擔心他會成為我們長照體系中的孤兒因為你看\n679577\t698308\t我們這個機構裡面照顧他們的只有5%他95%基本上都是家庭照顧那家庭照顧他到40歲老了以後他的父母親更老父母親也需要人家照顧他如果去照顧這些身障的長者所以我們希望長照3.0居然說要照顧全人\n701230\t726061\t全靈全責任我也希望衛福部能夠具體針對我們身上長者這一部分能夠做一個改善也希望能夠納入我們後續的討論針對這一部分能夠來著重我們會來關注這個議題因為這一部分其實我們在地方都知道因為他們本身一些情緒甚至攻擊的行為長照體系其實\n728662\t745155\t幾乎都是能不收就盡量不收啦所以我們擔心他會變成長照體系的孤兒針對這部分是不是單一個窗口特別來服務他們我們一定來設立這樣的一個最好的機制最方便的機制讓他們真的不要被忽略掉\n745555\t758353\t對啊 因為我們說居然要推長照3.0居然全人全靈全責任好 希望這一部分能夠突顯一定不能遺漏任何一個對對對 這一部分希望我們衛福部來重視好的 好的 沒有問題好 謝謝 感謝部長好 謝謝圖權級委員接下來請劉建國委員\n","txt":"好 謝謝主席那請我們邱部長還有我們長照師我們祝市長請邱部長跟祝市長委員好部長那今年農曆年因為我們有去桃園新屋小做手訪市順便找廠商去採購他們一些的小禮品那當然我們去現場遇到很多身心障礙的弱勢的族群\n那也就是我們大家俗稱的喜憨兒也就是智能障礙者那今天我們就想說來討論一下當喜憨兒老了以後誰要來照顧他們這部分的問題那尤其喜憨兒他在生理跟認知功能上他的退化速度也比一般人快那\n智能障礙者大概40歲以後大概就進入老化那比我們法定的65歲大概還要早20年那我們的制度如果用65歲才來進入服務進入的門檻等於說這個族群的人就錯過了大概20年的黃金照顧期\n那我請問一下部長那針對我們有了解到像2022年教育部中度智能障礙者在臺灣大概有7萬人那2015到2025年我們看一下臺灣智能障礙者在機構照顧的比例部長大概知道這是多少嗎\n我們機構照顧臺灣智能障礙者比例沒關係這上面有那我們據我們的資料顯示我們大概機構照顧的比例大概只有5%表示說他大部分照顧的主流還是要仰賴家庭來照顧那我們目前全臺身心障礙\n福利機構我們查了一下大概有226家那從數據上顯示我們可以了解到其實我們機構明顯的不足那即便現在我們有推日間照顧及社區居住的替代服務這部分也在發展在推廣但是這個目前的規模我們看還是有限\n那如果這些智能障礙者他到了40歲之後他還是要仰賴父母的照顧那我們想了解一下40歲以後他的父母親也老了那父母親也要人家照顧那這些智能障礙者自己也需要人照顧那我們這一部分我們衛福部有沒有什麼規劃來介入幫忙\n好非常謝謝委員關心到這個非常重要而且我們可以慢慢形成一個很重要的必須要關注的問題我們最近到一些相關的機構去看的確也發現了這個相當重要的問題所以真的很感謝那我們在身心障礙者其實他是前領的前領的納入啦在長照2.0就已經把前領的納入所以基本上他\n只要身心障礙者理論上都應該可以得到強照的沒有限制65歲的不是 可是我們剛剛有講你機構照顧的其實只有5%他其他的可以說95%還是仰賴家庭照顧那家庭照顧他到40歲以後其實整體我們智能障礙者他老化的速度比一般人還快你看他到40歲之後他父母親也老了那這一部分我們\n機構只有照顧5%那其他的部分我們衛福部有沒有注意到這個問題好 薛委員是不是這個部分有請社交使來幫忙做代理市長跟委員報告那我們現在在114年到117年有一個身心障礙者社區照顧服務的資源部件計畫\n那我們預期在114到117年我們會在社區去增加相關對於身障者的這些服務的據點那預計在到今年3月底至我們大概已經有1,127個據點已經服務到2萬人左右那預計在到100我們的計畫啟程到117年會再增加695處據點可以再增加大概1萬零500人左右\n大概會到三萬 接近三萬一千人\n這是整個的 我們大概整個的對 剛剛我有講嘛因為我們現在日宣照顧跟社區居住替代服務我知道有逐漸在發展在推廣但是我們目前看起來這個進度規模還是有限所以我們希望今天提出來就是希望在這一部分我們還是要好好的替他們來規劃這些身障老者我們希望說基本上能夠有一個完整的規劃然後衛福部來重視這件事情好\n好我們這個很重要我們一定來重視好那請衛福部來針對這部分來幫我們好好來規劃一下好那針對我們現在我們長照3.0是透過84量表來評估個案\n那他評估的重點是評估他是否有生活治理能力那可是一樣對於喜憨兒這部分他們很多生活可以治理但是我們知道他在認知情緒社交各方面都有一些重重的障礙但是我們在造福評估\n這一部分可能評估的結果是不符合失能那針對這一部分我們針對這一部分有沒有對他們因為你評估的結果可能他會沒有達到這巴斯量表的標準他生活上可能可以治理但是他在認知情緒社交方面可能沒有辦法達到那可是這一部分我們要如何去照顧他們\n好的謝謝委員的指教那我想長照基本上是用CMS在評估量表來處理那巴士量表其實是在評估要聘外籍看護那這個部分委員所提到的是不是我們怎麼樣來作權性的來評估這個是不是市長回答一下\n長照的這邊的評估不是用所謂的巴士量表長照3.0不是用巴士量表如果您關心的是巴士量表這邊是不是可以有一些做一些調整那基本上因為現在的這個聘外刊的那一塊現在有非常多多元免評的機制\n那所以這個目前在勞動部這些相關的法規跟我們衛福部一起合作的部分已經有非常多的一些多元免評的對象不見得是要走到醫院去做這樣的巴士量表的評估所以因為我們\n提出的意思說你針對他是不是能夠治理有沒有符合失能這部分單就八十兩秒部分可能對於這些身障老者可能就沒有辦法達到嘛所以我們也希望說對於失能評估工具的指標是不是可以納入\n非身體性障礙的功能性退化指標這一部分是不是可以納入現況就已經有我們的CMS的評估量表就是多元評估量表裡面對於最有情緒困擾的還有一些心智障礙類的這個部分已經都有納進去所以這部分已經有幫他納入了嗎是好 那也希望說這一部分好好幫我們加強一下\n那還有我們喜安兒如果過了65歲他可能在身上體性裡面他日間照顧可能無法繼續使用因為有可能這些身障的老人他到長照老人日間照顧中心他可能會被拒收因為據我們了解因為他們\n心智障礙可能會吵鬧甚至會有攻擊性的行為所以對於這些身上老者可能他去這些照顧中心可能會被拒收會不會有面臨這樣的問題沒有辦法解決\n委員關心這件事情其實我們在長照2.0及支付上路的時候針對有情緒困擾或者是不好照顧的對象我們都有加成的給付就是所謂的A碼的政策性的加成補助來幫忙讓這項的一個這個服務提供單位有這個意願來照顧這些困難照顧的對象\n我們後來又針對失智症有伴隨BPSD就是所謂的情緒行為這些困擾的這樣的對象我們又額外再有一個加成所以其實這個對於困難照顧的部分其實都有兩個層次的一個相關的加成因為據我們了解其實像很多機構他們要收\n我們喜安的這些老者其實他們也困擾所以他們都是盡量其實我們會感覺說他盡量是不收啦因為他也怕造成他的困擾或者影響到其他人所以我們說是不是針對這部分應該針對身障長者我們要有一個單一的服務窗口可以統整我們日間照顧喘息跟安置這些福利的轉介是不是可以針對他們這部分成立一個單一的服務窗口\n現階段其實包括今天是以障礙身份進到長照體系或者以老人身份進到長照體系本來就有一個橫向的聯繫的平台因為我們擔心他會變成長照體系中的孤兒其實雖然說在規劃在裡面但是其實機構來講他們是傾向不願意去收他們\n我們這一塊我們來努力那因為基本上目前的這個日照中心的有全國有一千多家那對於這個如果要專收障礙者這種尤其是心智障礙的話\n那它基本上它的加速它的可靜性就不高因為畢竟日照中心就是要方便這個交通接送可以抵達的到的所以目前我們的政策上也不是在長照體系不會說去特別有一些專一來針對什麼樣的類型的障礙者的一個日照\n這樣子其實他真的就是沒有辦法達到進變性的一個議題所以我們希望是這一千多家都能夠服務各種不同採取共融的對因為據我們了解因為身上長者可能對這些機構可能他們其實真的就是傾向盡量不收因為所以我們擔心他會成為我們長照體系中的孤兒因為你看\n我們這個機構裡面照顧他們的只有5%他95%基本上都是家庭照顧那家庭照顧他到40歲老了以後他的父母親更老父母親也需要人家照顧他如果去照顧這些身障的長者所以我們希望長照3.0居然說要照顧全人\n全靈全責任我也希望衛福部能夠具體針對我們身上長者這一部分能夠做一個改善也希望能夠納入我們後續的討論針對這一部分能夠來著重我們會來關注這個議題因為這一部分其實我們在地方都知道因為他們本身一些情緒甚至攻擊的行為長照體系其實\n幾乎都是能不收就盡量不收啦所以我們擔心他會變成長照體系的孤兒針對這部分是不是單一個窗口特別來服務他們我們一定來設立這樣的一個最好的機制最方便的機制讓他們真的不要被忽略掉\n對啊 因為我們說居然要推長照3.0居然全人全靈全責任好 希望這一部分能夠突顯一定不能遺漏任何一個對對對 這一部分希望我們衛福部來重視好的 好的 沒有問題好 謝謝 感謝部長好 謝謝圖權級委員接下來請劉建國委員\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:07.251 --> 00:35.116\n好謝謝主席那請我們邱部長還有我們長照師我們祝市長請邱部長跟祝市長委員好部長那今年農曆年因為我們有去桃園新屋小做手訪市順便找廠商去採購他們一些的小禮品那當然我們去現場遇到很多身心障礙的弱勢的族群\n\n00:35.856 --> 00:58.664\n那也就是我們大家俗稱的喜憨兒也就是智能障礙者那今天我們就想說來討論一下當喜憨兒老了以後誰要來照顧他們這部分的問題那尤其喜憨兒他在生理跟認知功能上他的退化速度也比一般人快那\n\n00:59.949 --> 01:19.614\n智能障礙者大概40歲以後大概就進入老化那比我們法定的65歲大概還要早20年那我們的制度如果用65歲才來進入服務進入的門檻等於說這個族群的人就錯過了大概20年的黃金照顧期\n\n01:20.934 --> 01:41.027\n那我請問一下部長那針對我們有了解到像2022年教育部中度智能障礙者在臺灣大概有7萬人那2015到2025年我們看一下臺灣智能障礙者在機構照顧的比例部長大概知道這是多少嗎\n\n01:42.332 --> 02:02.634\n我們機構照顧臺灣智能障礙者比例沒關係這上面有那我們據我們的資料顯示我們大概機構照顧的比例大概只有5%表示說他大部分照顧的主流還是要仰賴家庭來照顧那我們目前全臺身心障礙\n\n02:03.635 --> 02:24.240\n福利機構我們查了一下大概有226家那從數據上顯示我們可以了解到其實我們機構明顯的不足那即便現在我們有推日間照顧及社區居住的替代服務這部分也在發展在推廣但是這個目前的規模我們看還是有限\n\n02:25.140 --> 02:48.582\n那如果這些智能障礙者他到了40歲之後他還是要仰賴父母的照顧那我們想了解一下40歲以後他的父母親也老了那父母親也要人家照顧那這些智能障礙者自己也需要人照顧那我們這一部分我們衛福部有沒有什麼規劃來介入幫忙\n\n02:49.485 --> 03:18.518\n好非常謝謝委員關心到這個非常重要而且我們可以慢慢形成一個很重要的必須要關注的問題我們最近到一些相關的機構去看的確也發現了這個相當重要的問題所以真的很感謝那我們在身心障礙者其實他是前領的前領的納入啦在長照2.0就已經把前領的納入所以基本上他\n\n03:19.478 --> 03:47.151\n只要身心障礙者理論上都應該可以得到強照的沒有限制65歲的不是可是我們剛剛有講你機構照顧的其實只有5%他其他的可以說95%還是仰賴家庭照顧那家庭照顧他到40歲以後其實整體我們智能障礙者他老化的速度比一般人還快你看他到40歲之後他父母親也老了那這一部分我們\n\n03:48.692 --> 04:07.711\n機構只有照顧5%那其他的部分我們衛福部有沒有注意到這個問題好薛委員是不是這個部分有請社交使來幫忙做代理市長跟委員報告那我們現在在114年到117年有一個身心障礙者社區照顧服務的資源部件計畫\n\n04:08.752 --> 04:27.203\n那我們預期在114到117年我們會在社區去增加相關對於身障者的這些服務的據點那預計在到今年3月底至我們大概已經有1,127個據點已經服務到2萬人左右那預計在到100我們的計畫啟程到117年會再增加695處據點可以再增加大概1萬零500人左右\n\n04:39.253 --> 04:41.543\n大概會到三萬接近三萬一千人\n\n04:42.743 --> 05:09.841\n這是整個的我們大概整個的對剛剛我有講嘛因為我們現在日宣照顧跟社區居住替代服務我知道有逐漸在發展在推廣但是我們目前看起來這個進度規模還是有限所以我們希望今天提出來就是希望在這一部分我們還是要好好的替他們來規劃這些身障老者我們希望說基本上能夠有一個完整的規劃然後衛福部來重視這件事情好\n\n05:11.007 --> 05:14.528\n好我們這個很重要我們一定來重視好那請衛福部來針對這部分來幫我們好好來規劃一下好那針對我們現在我們長照3.0是透過84量表來評估個案\n\n05:26.926 --> 05:50.059\n那他評估的重點是評估他是否有生活治理能力那可是一樣對於喜憨兒這部分他們很多生活可以治理但是我們知道他在認知情緒社交各方面都有一些重重的障礙但是我們在造福評估\n\n05:51.460 --> 06:14.510\n這一部分可能評估的結果是不符合失能那針對這一部分我們針對這一部分有沒有對他們因為你評估的結果可能他會沒有達到這巴斯量表的標準他生活上可能可以治理但是他在認知情緒社交方面可能沒有辦法達到那可是這一部分我們要如何去照顧他們\n\n06:15.310 --> 06:37.430\n好的謝謝委員的指教那我想長照基本上是用CMS在評估量表來處理那巴士量表其實是在評估要聘外籍看護那這個部分委員所提到的是不是我們怎麼樣來作權性的來評估這個是不是市長回答一下\n\n06:40.766 --> 07:00.694\n長照的這邊的評估不是用所謂的巴士量表長照3.0不是用巴士量表如果您關心的是巴士量表這邊是不是可以有一些做一些調整那基本上因為現在的這個聘外刊的那一塊現在有非常多多元免評的機制\n\n07:01.914 --> 07:17.986\n那所以這個目前在勞動部這些相關的法規跟我們衛福部一起合作的部分已經有非常多的一些多元免評的對象不見得是要走到醫院去做這樣的巴士量表的評估所以因為我們\n\n07:18.746 --> 07:36.045\n提出的意思說你針對他是不是能夠治理有沒有符合失能這部分單就八十兩秒部分可能對於這些身障老者可能就沒有辦法達到嘛所以我們也希望說對於失能評估工具的指標是不是可以納入\n\n07:36.565 --> 08:00.101\n非身體性障礙的功能性退化指標這一部分是不是可以納入現況就已經有我們的CMS的評估量表就是多元評估量表裡面對於最有情緒困擾的還有一些心智障礙類的這個部分已經都有納進去所以這部分已經有幫他納入了嗎是好那也希望說這一部分好好幫我們加強一下\n\n08:01.124 --> 08:24.190\n那還有我們喜安兒如果過了65歲他可能在身上體性裡面他日間照顧可能無法繼續使用因為有可能這些身障的老人他到長照老人日間照顧中心他可能會被拒收因為據我們了解因為他們\n\n08:25.510 --> 08:36.678\n心智障礙可能會吵鬧甚至會有攻擊性的行為所以對於這些身上老者可能他去這些照顧中心可能會被拒收會不會有面臨這樣的問題沒有辦法解決\n\n08:41.096 --> 09:01.021\n委員關心這件事情其實我們在長照2.0及支付上路的時候針對有情緒困擾或者是不好照顧的對象我們都有加成的給付就是所謂的A碼的政策性的加成補助來幫忙讓這項的一個這個服務提供單位有這個意願來照顧這些困難照顧的對象\n\n09:03.922 --> 09:25.770\n我們後來又針對失智症有伴隨BPSD就是所謂的情緒行為這些困擾的這樣的對象我們又額外再有一個加成所以其實這個對於困難照顧的部分其實都有兩個層次的一個相關的加成因為據我們了解其實像很多機構他們要收\n\n09:26.730 --> 09:55.518\n我們喜安的這些老者其實他們也困擾所以他們都是盡量其實我們會感覺說他盡量是不收啦因為他也怕造成他的困擾或者影響到其他人所以我們說是不是針對這部分應該針對身障長者我們要有一個單一的服務窗口可以統整我們日間照顧喘息跟安置這些福利的轉介是不是可以針對他們這部分成立一個單一的服務窗口\n\n09:57.624 --> 10:19.400\n現階段其實包括今天是以障礙身份進到長照體系或者以老人身份進到長照體系本來就有一個橫向的聯繫的平台因為我們擔心他會變成長照體系中的孤兒其實雖然說在規劃在裡面但是其實機構來講他們是傾向不願意去收他們\n\n10:20.856 --> 10:34.777\n我們這一塊我們來努力那因為基本上目前的這個日照中心的有全國有一千多家那對於這個如果要專收障礙者這種尤其是心智障礙的話\n\n10:35.618 --> 10:54.277\n那它基本上它的加速它的可靜性就不高因為畢竟日照中心就是要方便這個交通接送可以抵達的到的所以目前我們的政策上也不是在長照體系不會說去特別有一些專一來針對什麼樣的類型的障礙者的一個日照\n\n10:54.937 --> 11:18.977\n這樣子其實他真的就是沒有辦法達到進變性的一個議題所以我們希望是這一千多家都能夠服務各種不同採取共融的對因為據我們了解因為身上長者可能對這些機構可能他們其實真的就是傾向盡量不收因為所以我們擔心他會成為我們長照體系中的孤兒因為你看\n\n11:19.577 --> 11:38.308\n我們這個機構裡面照顧他們的只有5%他95%基本上都是家庭照顧那家庭照顧他到40歲老了以後他的父母親更老父母親也需要人家照顧他如果去照顧這些身障的長者所以我們希望長照3.0居然說要照顧全人\n\n11:41.230 --> 12:06.061\n全靈全責任我也希望衛福部能夠具體針對我們身上長者這一部分能夠做一個改善也希望能夠納入我們後續的討論針對這一部分能夠來著重我們會來關注這個議題因為這一部分其實我們在地方都知道因為他們本身一些情緒甚至攻擊的行為長照體系其實\n\n12:08.662 --> 12:25.155\n幾乎都是能不收就盡量不收啦所以我們擔心他會變成長照體系的孤兒針對這部分是不是單一個窗口特別來服務他們我們一定來設立這樣的一個最好的機制最方便的機制讓他們真的不要被忽略掉\n\n12:25.555 --> 12:38.353\n對啊因為我們說居然要推長照3.0居然全人全靈全責任好希望這一部分能夠突顯一定不能遺漏任何一個對對對這一部分希望我們衛福部來重視好的好的沒有問題好謝謝感謝部長好謝謝圖權級委員接下來請劉建國委員\n\n","segments":[{"start":7.251,"end":35.116,"text":"好 謝謝主席那請我們邱部長還有我們長照師我們祝市長請邱部長跟祝市長委員好部長那今年農曆年因為我們有去桃園新屋小做手訪市順便找廠商去採購他們一些的小禮品那當然我們去現場遇到很多身心障礙的弱勢的族群"},{"start":35.856,"end":58.664,"text":"那也就是我們大家俗稱的喜憨兒也就是智能障礙者那今天我們就想說來討論一下當喜憨兒老了以後誰要來照顧他們這部分的問題那尤其喜憨兒他在生理跟認知功能上他的退化速度也比一般人快那"},{"start":59.949,"end":79.614,"text":"智能障礙者大概40歲以後大概就進入老化那比我們法定的65歲大概還要早20年那我們的制度如果用65歲才來進入服務進入的門檻等於說這個族群的人就錯過了大概20年的黃金照顧期"},{"start":80.934,"end":101.027,"text":"那我請問一下部長那針對我們有了解到像2022年教育部中度智能障礙者在臺灣大概有7萬人那2015到2025年我們看一下臺灣智能障礙者在機構照顧的比例部長大概知道這是多少嗎"},{"start":102.332,"end":122.634,"text":"我們機構照顧臺灣智能障礙者比例沒關係這上面有那我們據我們的資料顯示我們大概機構照顧的比例大概只有5%表示說他大部分照顧的主流還是要仰賴家庭來照顧那我們目前全臺身心障礙"},{"start":123.635,"end":144.24,"text":"福利機構我們查了一下大概有226家那從數據上顯示我們可以了解到其實我們機構明顯的不足那即便現在我們有推日間照顧及社區居住的替代服務這部分也在發展在推廣但是這個目前的規模我們看還是有限"},{"start":145.14,"end":168.582,"text":"那如果這些智能障礙者他到了40歲之後他還是要仰賴父母的照顧那我們想了解一下40歲以後他的父母親也老了那父母親也要人家照顧那這些智能障礙者自己也需要人照顧那我們這一部分我們衛福部有沒有什麼規劃來介入幫忙"},{"start":169.485,"end":198.518,"text":"好非常謝謝委員關心到這個非常重要而且我們可以慢慢形成一個很重要的必須要關注的問題我們最近到一些相關的機構去看的確也發現了這個相當重要的問題所以真的很感謝那我們在身心障礙者其實他是前領的前領的納入啦在長照2.0就已經把前領的納入所以基本上他"},{"start":199.478,"end":227.151,"text":"只要身心障礙者理論上都應該可以得到強照的沒有限制65歲的不是 可是我們剛剛有講你機構照顧的其實只有5%他其他的可以說95%還是仰賴家庭照顧那家庭照顧他到40歲以後其實整體我們智能障礙者他老化的速度比一般人還快你看他到40歲之後他父母親也老了那這一部分我們"},{"start":228.692,"end":247.711,"text":"機構只有照顧5%那其他的部分我們衛福部有沒有注意到這個問題好 薛委員是不是這個部分有請社交使來幫忙做代理市長跟委員報告那我們現在在114年到117年有一個身心障礙者社區照顧服務的資源部件計畫"},{"start":248.752,"end":267.203,"text":"那我們預期在114到117年我們會在社區去增加相關對於身障者的這些服務的據點那預計在到今年3月底至我們大概已經有1,127個據點已經服務到2萬人左右那預計在到100我們的計畫啟程到117年會再增加695處據點可以再增加大概1萬零500人左右"},{"start":279.253,"end":281.543,"text":"大概會到三萬 接近三萬一千人"},{"start":282.743,"end":309.841,"text":"這是整個的 我們大概整個的對 剛剛我有講嘛因為我們現在日宣照顧跟社區居住替代服務我知道有逐漸在發展在推廣但是我們目前看起來這個進度規模還是有限所以我們希望今天提出來就是希望在這一部分我們還是要好好的替他們來規劃這些身障老者我們希望說基本上能夠有一個完整的規劃然後衛福部來重視這件事情好"},{"start":311.007,"end":314.528,"text":"好我們這個很重要我們一定來重視好那請衛福部來針對這部分來幫我們好好來規劃一下好那針對我們現在我們長照3.0是透過84量表來評估個案"},{"start":326.926,"end":350.059,"text":"那他評估的重點是評估他是否有生活治理能力那可是一樣對於喜憨兒這部分他們很多生活可以治理但是我們知道他在認知情緒社交各方面都有一些重重的障礙但是我們在造福評估"},{"start":351.46,"end":374.51,"text":"這一部分可能評估的結果是不符合失能那針對這一部分我們針對這一部分有沒有對他們因為你評估的結果可能他會沒有達到這巴斯量表的標準他生活上可能可以治理但是他在認知情緒社交方面可能沒有辦法達到那可是這一部分我們要如何去照顧他們"},{"start":375.31,"end":397.43,"text":"好的謝謝委員的指教那我想長照基本上是用CMS在評估量表來處理那巴士量表其實是在評估要聘外籍看護那這個部分委員所提到的是不是我們怎麼樣來作權性的來評估這個是不是市長回答一下"},{"start":400.766,"end":420.694,"text":"長照的這邊的評估不是用所謂的巴士量表長照3.0不是用巴士量表如果您關心的是巴士量表這邊是不是可以有一些做一些調整那基本上因為現在的這個聘外刊的那一塊現在有非常多多元免評的機制"},{"start":421.914,"end":437.986,"text":"那所以這個目前在勞動部這些相關的法規跟我們衛福部一起合作的部分已經有非常多的一些多元免評的對象不見得是要走到醫院去做這樣的巴士量表的評估所以因為我們"},{"start":438.746,"end":456.045,"text":"提出的意思說你針對他是不是能夠治理有沒有符合失能這部分單就八十兩秒部分可能對於這些身障老者可能就沒有辦法達到嘛所以我們也希望說對於失能評估工具的指標是不是可以納入"},{"start":456.565,"end":480.101,"text":"非身體性障礙的功能性退化指標這一部分是不是可以納入現況就已經有我們的CMS的評估量表就是多元評估量表裡面對於最有情緒困擾的還有一些心智障礙類的這個部分已經都有納進去所以這部分已經有幫他納入了嗎是好 那也希望說這一部分好好幫我們加強一下"},{"start":481.124,"end":504.19,"text":"那還有我們喜安兒如果過了65歲他可能在身上體性裡面他日間照顧可能無法繼續使用因為有可能這些身障的老人他到長照老人日間照顧中心他可能會被拒收因為據我們了解因為他們"},{"start":505.51,"end":516.678,"text":"心智障礙可能會吵鬧甚至會有攻擊性的行為所以對於這些身上老者可能他去這些照顧中心可能會被拒收會不會有面臨這樣的問題沒有辦法解決"},{"start":521.096,"end":541.021,"text":"委員關心這件事情其實我們在長照2.0及支付上路的時候針對有情緒困擾或者是不好照顧的對象我們都有加成的給付就是所謂的A碼的政策性的加成補助來幫忙讓這項的一個這個服務提供單位有這個意願來照顧這些困難照顧的對象"},{"start":543.922,"end":565.77,"text":"我們後來又針對失智症有伴隨BPSD就是所謂的情緒行為這些困擾的這樣的對象我們又額外再有一個加成所以其實這個對於困難照顧的部分其實都有兩個層次的一個相關的加成因為據我們了解其實像很多機構他們要收"},{"start":566.73,"end":595.518,"text":"我們喜安的這些老者其實他們也困擾所以他們都是盡量其實我們會感覺說他盡量是不收啦因為他也怕造成他的困擾或者影響到其他人所以我們說是不是針對這部分應該針對身障長者我們要有一個單一的服務窗口可以統整我們日間照顧喘息跟安置這些福利的轉介是不是可以針對他們這部分成立一個單一的服務窗口"},{"start":597.624,"end":619.4,"text":"現階段其實包括今天是以障礙身份進到長照體系或者以老人身份進到長照體系本來就有一個橫向的聯繫的平台因為我們擔心他會變成長照體系中的孤兒其實雖然說在規劃在裡面但是其實機構來講他們是傾向不願意去收他們"},{"start":620.856,"end":634.777,"text":"我們這一塊我們來努力那因為基本上目前的這個日照中心的有全國有一千多家那對於這個如果要專收障礙者這種尤其是心智障礙的話"},{"start":635.618,"end":654.277,"text":"那它基本上它的加速它的可靜性就不高因為畢竟日照中心就是要方便這個交通接送可以抵達的到的所以目前我們的政策上也不是在長照體系不會說去特別有一些專一來針對什麼樣的類型的障礙者的一個日照"},{"start":654.937,"end":678.977,"text":"這樣子其實他真的就是沒有辦法達到進變性的一個議題所以我們希望是這一千多家都能夠服務各種不同採取共融的對因為據我們了解因為身上長者可能對這些機構可能他們其實真的就是傾向盡量不收因為所以我們擔心他會成為我們長照體系中的孤兒因為你看"},{"start":679.577,"end":698.308,"text":"我們這個機構裡面照顧他們的只有5%他95%基本上都是家庭照顧那家庭照顧他到40歲老了以後他的父母親更老父母親也需要人家照顧他如果去照顧這些身障的長者所以我們希望長照3.0居然說要照顧全人"},{"start":701.23,"end":726.061,"text":"全靈全責任我也希望衛福部能夠具體針對我們身上長者這一部分能夠做一個改善也希望能夠納入我們後續的討論針對這一部分能夠來著重我們會來關注這個議題因為這一部分其實我們在地方都知道因為他們本身一些情緒甚至攻擊的行為長照體系其實"},{"start":728.662,"end":745.155,"text":"幾乎都是能不收就盡量不收啦所以我們擔心他會變成長照體系的孤兒針對這部分是不是單一個窗口特別來服務他們我們一定來設立這樣的一個最好的機制最方便的機制讓他們真的不要被忽略掉"},{"start":745.555,"end":758.353,"text":"對啊 因為我們說居然要推長照3.0居然全人全靈全責任好 希望這一部分能夠突顯一定不能遺漏任何一個對對對 這一部分希望我們衛福部來重視好的 好的 沒有問題好 謝謝 感謝部長好 謝謝圖權級委員接下來請劉建國委員"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":841,"blocks":[["涂委員權吉：（11時31分）謝謝主席，請邱部長還有長照司祝司長。"],["主席（黃委員秀芳代）：請邱部長跟祝司長。"],["邱部長泰源：委員好。"],["涂委員權吉：部長，今年農曆年我們有去桃園新屋小作所訪視，順便找廠商去採購他們的一些小禮品，當然，我們在現場遇到很多身心障礙的弱勢族群，就是大家俗稱的喜憨兒，也就是智能障礙者。今天我們就想來討論一下，當喜憨兒老了以後，誰要來照顧他們的問題。尤其喜憨兒在生理跟認知功能上的退化速度也比一般人快，智能障礙者在40歲以後大概就進入老化，比法定的65歲還要早20年，我們的制度如果用65歲才進入服務的門檻，等於這個族群的人就錯過了大概20年的黃金照顧期。","我請問一下部長，根據2022年教育部的特教通報資料，我們了解到中度智能障礙者在臺灣大概有7萬人，而2015到2025年臺灣智能障礙者在機構照顧的比例，部長大概知道是多少嗎？機構照顧臺灣智能障礙者的比例。沒關係，這簡報上面有，據我們的資料顯示，機構照顧的比例大概只有5%，表示照顧的主流還是要仰賴家庭來照顧。目前全臺的身心障礙福利機構，我們查了一下，大概有226家，從數據上顯示，我們可以了解到我們機構明顯不足，即便現在有推日間照顧及社區居住的替代服務，這部分也在發展、推廣，但是目前規模還是有限。如果這些智能障礙者到了40歲之後，還是要仰賴父母的照顧，我們想了解一下，40歲以後，他的父母親也老了，父母親也要人照顧，而這些智能障礙者自己也需要人照顧，這一部分衛福部有沒有什麼規劃來介入幫忙？"],["邱部長泰源：非常謝謝委員關心到這個非常重要，而且可以慢慢形成一個必須關注的問題。我們最近到一些相關的機構去看，的確也發現到這個相當重要的問題，所以真的很感謝。我們在身心障礙者的部分，其實是全齡的納入，在長照2.0就已經把全齡納入，基本上只要是身心障礙者，理論上都應該可以得到長照，沒有限制65歲。"],["涂委員權吉：可是我們剛才有講，機構照顧的其實只有5%，可以說95%還是仰賴家庭照顧，他們到40歲以後，其實整體智能障礙者的老化速度比一般人還快，他們到40歲之後，其父母親也老了，而機構只有照顧5%，那麼其他的部分怎麼辦？衛福部有沒有注意到這個問題？"],["邱部長泰源：謝謝委員，是不是這個部分我請社家署周代理署長來幫忙回答？"],["周代理署長道君：跟委員報告，我們從114年到117年有一個身心障礙者社區照顧服務資源布建計畫，預期在114年到117年會在社區增加相關對於身障者的服務據點，到今年3月底止，大概已經有1,127個據點，已經服務到兩萬人左右，我們的計畫期程到117年預計會再增加695個據點，可以再增加1萬500人左右，大概會到接近3萬1,000人，這是我們整個對於……"],["涂委員權吉：剛剛我有講，現在日間照顧跟社區居住替代服務我知道有逐漸在發展、推廣，但是目前看起來，這個進度規模還是有限，我們今天提出來就是希望這一部分我們還是要好好替他們規劃，對於這些身障老者，我們希望基本上能夠有一個完整的規劃，然後衛福部能重視這件事情。"],["邱部長泰源：好，這個很重要，我們一定重視，把它做好。"],["涂委員權吉：請衛福部針對這部分幫我們好好規劃一下。"],["邱部長泰源：好的。"],["涂委員權吉：針對長照3.0，是透過巴氏量表來評估個案，評估重點為他是否有生活自理能力，可是一樣的，對於喜憨兒這一部分，他們很多生活可以自理，但是我們知道，他們在認知、情緒、社交各方面都有重重的障礙，可是我們在照服評估的部分，可能評估的結果是不符合失能，針對這一部分，因為評估的結果可能會沒有達到巴氏量表的標準，他們生活上可能可以自理，但是在認知、情緒、社交方面可能沒有辦法達到，這一部分我們要如何去照顧他們？"],["邱部長泰源：謝謝委員的指教，長照基本上是用CMS評估量表來處理，巴氏量表其實是在評估聘用外籍看護。至於委員所提到的這個部分，我們怎麼樣周全性的評估，這個請司長回答一下。"],["祝司長健芳：委員，長照的評估不是用所謂的巴氏量表，所以他其實是……"],["涂委員權吉：長照3.0不是用巴氏量表？"],["祝司長健芳：不是，如果您關心巴氏量表是不是可以做一些調整，基本上因為現在聘外看的那一塊有多元免評的機制，所以目前勞動部主管的相關法規跟衛福部一起合作的部分已經有非常多多元免評的對象，不見得要到醫院去做巴氏量表的評估，先做以上的說明。"],["涂委員權吉：我們提出的意思是說，針對他們是不是能夠自理、有沒有符合失能，這部分單就巴氏量表，可能這些身障老者就沒有辦法達到，所以我們也希望對於失能評估工具的指標，是不是可以納入非身體性障礙的功能性退化指標？這一部分是不是可以納入？"],["祝司長健芳：現況就已經有，我們的CMS評估量表就是多元評估量表，裡面對於有情緒困擾的，還有一些心智障礙類的部分已經都有納進去。"],["涂委員權吉：所以這部分已經有納入了嘛？"],["祝司長健芳：是。"],["涂委員權吉：好，希望這一部分好好加強一下。"],["祝司長健芳：是。"],["涂委員權吉：喜憨兒如果過了65歲，他們在身障體系裡面，日間照顧可能無法繼續使用，這些身障老人到長照老人日間照顧中心可能會被拒收。據我們了解，因為他們心智障礙，可能會吵鬧，甚至會有攻擊性的行為，所以對於這些身障老者，他們去照顧中心可能會被拒收，會不會面臨這樣的問題沒有辦法解決？"],["祝司長健芳：委員關心的這件事情，其實我們在長照2.0及支付制度上路的時候，針對有情緒困擾或者是不好照顧的對象，我們都有加成的給付，就是所謂A碼的政策性加成補助，幫忙讓這項服務提供單位有意願來照顧這些困難照顧的對象。後來又針對失智症有伴隨BPSD，就是所謂的情緒行為困擾對象，我們又額外再有一個加成，所以對於困難照顧的部分，其實都有兩個層次的相關加成。"],["涂委員權吉：據我們了解，很多機構要收喜憨兒這些老者其實也很困擾，我們會感覺他們是儘量不收，因為他也怕造成他的困擾，或者影響到其他人。所以我們說，針對身障長者，我們應該要有一個單一的服務窗口，可以統整日間照顧、喘息安置等福利的轉介，是不是可以針對他們這部分成立一個單一的服務窗口？"],["祝司長健芳：現階段其實包括是以障礙身分進到長照體系，或者以老人身分進到長照體系，本來就有一個橫向的聯繫平臺。"],["涂委員權吉：因為我們擔心他們會變成長照體系中的孤兒，雖然是規劃在裡面，但是機構是傾向不願意去收他們。"],["祝司長健芳：這一塊我們來努力，因為基本上目前日照中心全國有一千多家，如果要專收障礙者，尤其是心智障礙的話，基本上它的家數、它的可近性就不高，畢竟日照中心就是要方便交通接送，可以抵達得到的，所以目前我們的政策也不是在長照體系特別針對單一類型障礙者的日照，這樣其實它真的沒有辦法達到近便性，所以我們希望這一千多家都能夠服務各種不同類型的障礙者，採取共融的方式來使用這個資源。"],["涂委員權吉：對，據我們了解，對於身障長者，這些機構其實真的就是傾向儘量不收，所以我們擔心他們會成為我們長照體系中的孤兒，因為你看，這個機構裡面照顧他們的只有5%，95%基本上都是家庭照顧，家庭照顧他到40歲，當他老了以後，他的父母親更老，父母親也需要人家照顧，他如何去照顧這些身障的長者？長照3.0既然強調要照顧全人、全齡、全責任，我希望衛福部能夠具體針對身障長者這部分做改善，也希望能夠納入我們後續的討論，針對這部分能夠著重……"],["邱部長泰源：好的，我們會來關注這個議題……"],["涂委員權吉：對，這部分其實我們在地方統統都知道，因為他們本身的一些情緒，甚至攻擊的行為，長照體系其實幾乎都是能不收就儘量不收，所以我們擔心他們會變成長照體系的孤兒，針對這部分，是不是能成立單一窗口特別來服務他們？"],["邱部長泰源：好，我們一定來設立這樣的一個機制，最好的機制、最方便的機制，讓他們真的不要被忽略掉，謝謝委員。"],["涂委員權吉：對啊，因為你們說要推長照3.0，全人、全齡、全責任，希望這部分能夠凸顯……"],["邱部長泰源：一定不能遺漏任何一個。"],["涂委員權吉：對，這部分希望衛福部重視。"],["邱部長泰源：好的，沒問題，謝謝委員。"],["涂委員權吉：好，感謝部長。"],["主席：謝謝涂權吉委員。","接下來請劉建國委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":118,"meet_id":"委員會-11-3-26-18","speakers":["劉建國","陳昭姿","林月琴","陳菁徽","邱鎮軍","王育敏","廖偉翔","蘇清泉","黃秀芳","涂權吉","王正旭","陳培瑜","范雲","陳瑩","楊曜","謝龍介","楊瓊瓔","葉元之"],"page_start":1,"meetingDate":["2025-06-23"],"gazette_id":"1146302","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1146302_00002"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第18次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、審查(一)委員劉建國等17人擬具「老人福利法第四十八條條文修正草案」案、(二)台灣民眾\n黨黨團擬具「老人福利法第四十八條條文修正草案」案；二、審查( 一) 委員許宇甄等18 人擬具\n「身心障礙者權益保障法第五十三條條文修正草案」案、(二)委員邱鎮軍等19人擬具「身心障礙\n者權益保障法第五十三條條文修正草案」案、(三)委員林月琴等17人擬具「身心障礙者權益保障\n法第五十三條條文修正草案」案、(四)委員陳菁徽等18人擬具「身心障礙者權益保障法第五十三\n條條文修正草案」案、(五)台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「身心障礙者權益保障法第五十三條條文修正草\n案」案、(六)委員范雲等17人擬具「身心障礙者權益保障法第五十三條條文修正草案」案、(七)\n委員邱若華等17人擬具「身心障礙者權益保障法第五十三條條文修正草案」案【提案第11006882\n號】、(八)委員魯明哲等19人擬具「身心障礙者權益保障法第五十三條條文修正草案」案、(九)\n委員傅崐萁等24人擬具「身心障礙者權益保障法第五十三條條文修正草案」案、(十)委員洪孟楷\n等17人擬具「身心障礙者權益保障法第五十三條條文修正草案」案、(十一)委員邱若華等17人擬\n具「身心障礙者權益保障法第五十三條條文修正草案」案【提案第11010755號】；三、審查(一)\n委員范雲等17人擬具「身心障礙者權益保障法部分條文修正草案」案、(二)委員郭昱晴等19人擬\n具「身心障礙者權益保障法第十六條條文修正草案」案、(三)委員何欣純等17人擬具「身心障礙\n者權益保障法部分條文修正草案」案、(四)委員陳冠廷等16人擬具「身心障礙者權益保障法第三\n十八條條文修正草案」案、(五)委員陳冠廷等20人擬具「身心障礙者權益保障法第二條、第五十\n三條及第九十九條條文修正草案」案、(六)委員徐富癸等18人擬具「身心障礙者權益保障法第十\n條條文修正草案」案、(七)委員羅廷瑋等16人擬具「身心障礙者權益保障法部分條文修正草案」\n案、(八)委員黃捷等17人擬具「身心障礙者權益保障法第七十一條條文修正草案」案、(九)委員\n王鴻薇等20人擬具「身心障礙者權益保障法增訂第四十條之一條文草案」案、(十)委員柯志恩等\n18人擬具「身心障礙者權益保障法增訂第四十條之一條文草案」案、(十一)委員柯志恩等17人擬\n具「身心障礙者權益保障法第六十條之一條文修正草案」案、(十二)委員馬文君等19人擬具「身\n心障礙者權益保障法第三十條之一、第五十條及第五十二條條文修正草案」案、(十三)委員廖偉\n翔等21人擬具「身心障礙者權益保障法增訂第五十條之一條文草案」案、(十四)委員廖偉翔等19\n人擬具「身心障礙者權益保障法部分條文修正草案」案、(十五)委員林楚茵等20人擬具「身心障\n礙者權益保障法第十條條文修正草案」案、(十六)委員陳菁徽等16人擬具「身心障礙者權益保障\n法部分條文修正草案」案、(十七)委員洪孟楷等18人擬具「身心障礙者權益保障法增訂第四十條\n之一條文草案」案、(十八)委員羅美玲等16人擬具「身心障礙者權益保障法部分條文修正草案」\n案、(十九)委員陳俊宇等18人擬具「身心障礙者權益保障法第七十一條條文修正草案」案、(二\n十)委員林楚茵等17人擬具「身心障礙者權益保障法第七十一條條文修正草案」案、(二十一)委\n員劉建國等17人擬具「身心障礙者權益保障法第七十一條條文修正草案」案、(二十二)委員邱若\n華等17人擬具「身心障礙者權益保障法第七十一條條文修正草案」案、(二十三)委員劉建國等17\n人擬具「身心障礙者權益保障法部分條文修正草案」案【第一案至第三案採綜合詢答；本日僅處\n理第一案及第二案】","agenda_id":"1146302_00001"}}}