{"id":162790,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/162790","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/b58c4cf52db2e91ae4b2d9c90d452e1db9483b76f331b600afb45025fabe46231b9d0562b452a15f5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"王正旭","委員發言時間":"12:07:15 - 12:20:58","影片長度":"00:13:43","會議時間":"2025-06-23T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第3會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第18次全體委員會議（事由：一、審查\n（一）委員劉建國等17人擬具「老人福利法第四十八條條文修正草案」案。\n（二）台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「老人福利法第四十八條條文修正草案」案。\n二、審查\n  委員許宇甄等18人、委員邱鎮軍等19人、委員林月琴等17人、委員陳菁徽等18人、台灣民眾黨黨團、委員范雲等17人、委員邱若華等17人【提案第11006882號】、委員魯明哲等19人、委員傅崐萁等24人、委員洪孟楷等17人、委員邱若華等17人【提案第11010755號】分別擬具「身心障礙者權益保障法第五十三條條文修正草案」等11案。\n三、審查\n（一）委員范雲等17人、委員何欣純等17人、委員羅廷瑋等16人、委員廖偉翔等19人、委員陳菁徽等16人、委員羅美玲等16人、委員劉建國等17人分別擬具「身心障礙者權益保障法部分條文修正草案」等7案。\n（二）委員郭昱晴等19人擬具「身心障礙者權益保障法第十六條條文修正草案」案。\n（三）委員陳冠廷等16人擬具「身心障礙者權益保障法第三十八條條文修正草案」案。\n（四）委員陳冠廷等20人擬具「身心障礙者權益保障法第二條、第五十三條及第九十九條條文修正草案」案。\n（五）委員徐富癸等18人擬具「身心障礙者權益保障法第十條條文修正草案」案。\n（六）委員黃捷等17人擬具「身心障礙者權益保障法第七十一條條文修正草案」案。\n（七）委員王鴻薇等20人擬具「身心障礙者權益保障法增訂第四十條之一條文草案」案。\n（八）委員柯志恩等18人擬具「身心障礙者權益保障法增訂第四十條之一條文草案」案。\n（九）委員柯志恩等17人擬具「身心障礙者權益保障法第六十條之一條文修正草案」案。\n（十）委員馬文君等19人擬具「身心障礙者權益保障法第三十條之一、第五十條及第五十二條條文修正草案」案。\n（十一）委員廖偉翔等21人擬具「身心障礙者權益保障法增訂第五十條之一條文草案」案。\n（十二）委員林楚茵等20人擬具「身心障礙者權益保障法第十條條文修正草案」案。\n（十三）委員洪孟楷等18人擬具「身心障礙者權益保障法增訂第四十條之一條文草案」案。\n（十四）委員陳俊宇等18人擬具「身心障礙者權益保障法第七十一條條文修正草案」案。\n（十五）委員林楚茵等17人擬具「身心障礙者權益保障法第七十一條條文修正草案」案。\n（十六）委員劉建國等17人擬具「身心障礙者權益保障法第七十一條條文修正草案」案。\n（十七）委員邱若華等17人擬具「身心障礙者權益保障法第七十一條條文修正草案」案。\n【第一案至第三案採綜合詢答；本日僅處理第一案及第二案。】\n【6月23日、25日及26日三天一次會】）","type":"Clip","date":"2025-06-23","start_time":"2025-06-23T12:07:15+08:00","end_time":"2025-06-23T12:20:58+08:00","duration":823,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第3會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第18次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":3,"sessionTimes":18,"committees":[26],"id":"委員會-11-3-26-18"},"features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"transcript":{"id":"162790","pyannote":{"name":"ronny","tool":"pyannote","data":{"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/162790","tool":"pyannote","id":"162790-pyannote"},"job_id":"SOkA5e7QbFNlnmhY","queued_at":"2025-06-23 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75.745, \"end\": 89.385, \"text\": \"那這部分部長你也敬表支持那也希望能夠針對於這個條文裡面相關的一些內文在做修正動議以後把它能夠弄得更周全\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 75.745, \"end\": 77.969, \"score\": 0.981}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 77.969, \"end\": 78.109, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"分\", \"start\": 78.109, \"end\": 78.59, \"score\": 0.995}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 78.59, \"end\": 78.73, \"score\": 0.857}, {\"word\": \"長\"}, {\"word\": \"你\", \"start\": 78.73, \"end\": 78.91, \"score\": 0.889}, {\"word\": \"也\", \"start\": 78.91, \"end\": 79.17, \"score\": 0.912}, {\"word\": \"敬\", \"start\": 79.17, \"end\": 79.331, \"score\": 0.876}, {\"word\": \"表\", \"start\": 79.331, \"end\": 79.571, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"支\", \"start\": 79.571, \"end\": 79.851, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"持\", \"start\": 79.851, \"end\": 80.152, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 80.152, \"end\": 80.332, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"也\", \"start\": 80.332, \"end\": 80.492, \"score\": 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{\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 815.882, \"end\": 815.982, \"score\": 0.95}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"市\", \"start\": 815.982, \"end\": 816.002, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 816.002, \"end\": 816.022, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 816.022, \"end\": 816.083, \"score\": 0.667}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"文\", \"start\": 816.083, \"end\": 816.183, \"score\": 0.8}, {\"word\": \"偉\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 816.183, \"end\": 816.203, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"長\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:00,309 --> 00:00:11,849\n好謝謝主席我們還是請邱部長請部長\n\n2\n00:00:20,089 --> 00:00:44,591\n委員好部長好所以今天雖然修法的內容看起來簡單可是如何能夠再落實如何讓它更精進真的是需要大家共同來努力那針對今天我們這個老土法第48條的修正條文裡面我們也提供一些想法來大家互相參考一下\n\n3\n00:00:46,652 --> 00:01:14,344\n今天大家都看到我們部裡面所提出來的這個書面報告裡面有關於勞扶法為什麼要針對這個福利機構的評鑑做一些調整我想已經講得非常清楚包括召委也希望能夠把勞扶法跟我們目前的這個長照法評鑑機構要去一致就是以前會分等地希望就直接把它設為兩者是一致的是合格或不合格\n\n4\n00:01:15,745 --> 00:01:29,385\n那這部分部長你也敬表支持那也希望能夠針對於這個條文裡面相關的一些內文在做修正動議以後把它能夠弄得更周全\n\n5\n00:01:31,101 --> 00:01:55,407\n我想大家都會朝這個方向去努力那在這個宣發過程裡面這個民眾黨他的黨團裡面其實也講到了立法說明說發現目前的評鑑會造成一些行政壓力那機構在處理希望得到高分的同時會投入大量的人力來準備書面的資料跟報表反而會壓縮了這個照顧的時間\n\n6\n00:01:58,229 --> 00:02:16,142\n這基本上是貝里的長照服務品質提升了本質所以才希望能夠做這一個相關的這些配套措施包括跟兩個法案的一致性那我們也了解這個一致性是非常重要那也期待能夠得到一些改善\n\n7\n00:02:16,903 --> 00:02:33,304\n不過請教一下就是說我們如果要簡化評鑑標準減輕機構的壓力還要同時兼顧這個評鑑品質得到好的權平衡的話那我們在具體說法上有沒有辦法透過修法來達到這樣的目標\n\n8\n00:02:35,526 --> 00:02:45,800\n副長或者是次長有沒有相關的意見可以提供給我們做參考我想評鑑是一種不得不的必須要做就像醫院評鑑大家愛愛救但是為了維護品質\n\n9\n00:02:51,047 --> 00:03:16,442\n以及督導整個醫療院所能夠注意到各種品質的安全各方面這個部分不得不的一個平衡的一個做法謝謝我們大院能夠來關心到這個問題我們也覺得把它變成一致性會更好處理也不用大家在拚\n\n10\n00:03:17,463 --> 00:03:37,121\n病人這種假意病定的衝到大家壓力大啦那最重要是好好把病人照顧好那這個部分我相信如果有這樣的一個一致性以後我們繼續來修正以及聽聽機構的聲音我相信我們會把平線的制度做得更\n\n11\n00:03:38,302 --> 00:04:04,608\n更好有必要的話我們都可以來成立小組來演繹這樣子是因為我們知道目前為什麼要把它從這個等D加以丙丁然後變成那個合格跟破合格我們往下看就可以知道目前的老夫法的評鑑標準裡面就有包括現有的如果是沒有修法之前的話就是分了U加以丙丁那丙跟丁基本上是會受到\n\n12\n00:04:05,848 --> 00:04:32,948\n影響會被公佈他的這個機構的名稱同時會有一些懲處那這個評鑑項目裡面其實還包括五大面向包括經營專業照護安全環境等等那有不同的占比那我們修法以後如果兩個法案的評鑑標準要趨於一致的話那未來在執行的部分包括老夫法跟長照法裡面的這個評鑑標準\n\n13\n00:04:34,989 --> 00:05:03,436\n有沒有已經同步在做處置這部分不知道目前部裡面有沒有相關的一些處理模式有關這個部分周代理市長跟委員報告搭配整個條文的修改目前我們也已經邀集了相關的專業團體我們已經有一個研究計畫在做下一輪評鑑的評鑑指標的一個修改\n\n14\n00:05:04,236 --> 00:05:21,141\n其中包含一個目標就是怎麼樣把評鑑的項目在能夠比較精準的去認定它的品質的情況之下把指標的具體項目一併來做簡化這個是在整個計畫裡面的一個重要的方向\n\n15\n00:05:21,941 --> 00:05:47,186\n是因為就好像剛剛昭緯一直在追問的交通部如何能夠針對於我們在提供給社會更公平更能夠服務到不同的族群之下可以有一致性的做法相對的如果我們未來也希望很多的服務的內容都能夠去一致或是對各個單位的要求去一致的話其實在不同的法律之間也應該\n\n16\n00:05:48,766 --> 00:06:09,794\n基於相同的要求之下應該朝這個方向來進進這很期待如果說衛福部裡面有相關的這些服務的內容分散在不同的這些條法律裡面的話也希望能夠從這個方向去檢討不要讓各個單位在執行的時候造成一些困擾我們會邀請長照師一起來參與就是大家一起來討論讓兩邊的做法能夠趨近\n\n17\n00:06:16,616 --> 00:06:40,552\n因為我們比較擔心的就是如果透過等一下我們也許會討論到修正動議來看的話會把原來是屬於平等丁等的這部分就直接改成合格或不合格當然那個是要從這個執法裡面再去做確定我們比較擔心的就是本來在一開始的時候針對第48條的前面第一項的前面幾款就會直接如果有\n\n18\n00:06:41,172 --> 00:07:00,580\n符合規定的話呢就要公佈他的名稱負責人的姓名而且是直接開罰那如果經過修正動議裡面的內文把它往後調調到第八項的話呢會變成說如果是不合格要限期令期改善如果不改善的話呢才要開始做處分\n\n19\n00:07:01,500 --> 00:07:23,615\n所以相對來講那反而是一個相對的放寬所以我們等一下在做這個修正動力的條文內容的部分我相信大家要提供更多的意見或者是有更好的方式來把這個該有的要讓我們的機構必須要遵守法尊的部分能夠有更周連的處置模式這個是等一下我們會再處理的地方\n\n20\n00:07:25,216 --> 00:07:52,093\n好的好那針對是有關於這個博愛座的相關定義跟規範的部分我想是讓我第五三條大家也非常期待有更好的方式來解決目前廠長碰到的困境我本身是已經在現有的博愛座的條件之下我每次搭捷運就很大方的就坐在我該坐的位置那我現在不知道如果調整優先席以後我上到這個捷運或者是到哪裡我應該\n\n21\n00:07:53,214 --> 00:08:13,423\n怎麼樣去面對這樣的這個環境的就是這個條款改變以後造成的對我的一些影響我相信應該有很多人會開始要不知道怎麼樣去面對這種從博愛做變成優先席這樣的這個概念上的處置所以對於使用需求跟精神上的處置我相信\n\n22\n00:08:15,004 --> 00:08:26,589\n衛福部應該是責無旁貸要把這些要求或者是精神能夠貫注到日常的生活裡面做適當的處置那不知道這邊衛福部有沒有做哪一些的準備\n\n23\n00:08:27,557 --> 00:08:51,549\n好我想委員提的這個很重要圖法不只於自省所以怎麼樣在桌前性的不然的話那你本來應該要坐在那裡才坐到如坐尊山的確會有這種擔心所以我們可能要把所有的配套與宣導的內容可能都要做桌前性的一個\n\n24\n00:08:53,168 --> 00:09:15,733\n一個一個設計,讓該做的做到哪一邊,該比更需要的可能就這個時候就可能給更需要的人這樣子我們希望整個設計到這樣的一個,形成這樣的一個文化,那文化是需要來宣導的這個部分我想我們會做這些委員的提醒,我們會把它做折扣性的一個來處理\n\n25\n00:09:16,853 --> 00:09:37,094\n因為文化的養成需要比較長久的時間那這個當然也希望有好的社會共識也知道未來在執行的時候可以怎麼樣讓它更優化那最後一個部分就是要比較不是很緊急可是希望能夠盡速來處理的就是有關於公衛疫苗的能源運送的問題\n\n26\n00:09:38,175 --> 00:09:54,545\n因為我們知道現在天氣已經進入到夏季變得非常炎熱那對疫情的改善或者是目前針對疫情如何能夠有效管控那打疫苗應該是非常重要的一個需要提供給民眾的服務那目前\n\n27\n00:09:55,806 --> 00:10:18,332\n我們很多的疫苗包括流感疫苗、COVID疫苗、小兒疫苗等等這個都需要透過冷藏的配送來讓這個品質可以得到好的保護可是很多的基層診所在領疫苗的時候需要由醫事人員到當地的衛生局去取回疫苗這個過程相對來講不准耗時而且\n\n28\n00:10:19,332 --> 00:10:43,934\n如何能夠有好的這個保存的模式其實是會讓人家擔心所以如何能夠討論出一個好的方式來讓這個疫苗的冷鏈配送服務可以更為周全那其實在COVID流行期那段時間很多的縣市是有提供配套措施的它可以透過好的這個冷鏈的配送\n\n29\n00:10:45,015 --> 00:10:59,922\n能夠讓這個疫苗很安全的而且是很有效率的抵達到不管是在衛生所或者是到急診所來讓這個疫苗的施打可以更為安全更為符合期待那目前並沒有\n\n30\n00:11:01,162 --> 00:11:15,577\n還是還沒有一個很完整的標準當然這個需要經費也需要一些好的措施跟方法那針對這部分不知道有沒有辦法請這個部裡面盡速的來研商\n\n31\n00:11:16,418 --> 00:11:42,164\n是針對於這個都會區先做呢還是要從偏鄉或離島先把它處理到一個程度讓全國未來再處理這個能量配送疫苗的這個安全度啊或者是各方面可以達到好的一個保護措施部長這邊有沒有可以提供給我們的想法我想委員提的這個是非常重要的在基層醫療長久以來發生的問題尤其在像COVID剛開始\n\n32\n00:11:46,092 --> 00:12:07,242\n當時我也擔任台北市醫師公會理事長王偉炎也擔任基隆市醫師公會理事長其實在防疫當中我們都花了很多的心力一個剛開始要打COVID疫苗的時候政府是認了基層診所是沒辦法打當然他們認了很多原因包括冷淚\n\n33\n00:12:08,743 --> 00:12:24,586\n配送是一個很大的問題但是我們後來經過專家的一個研議認為說他大概怎麼樣的一個運送會沒有問題然後果然這些螞蟻雄兵創造了七成的疫苗施打率\n\n34\n00:12:25,972 --> 00:12:48,987\n這個部分所以變成裡面解決這個能量的配重是一個很重要的問題那這個因為它跟衛生局有相當大的關係我們部裡面會出面來關心這些有沒有需要幫忙的因為它是相當的複雜診所像台北就有幾千家那不可能\n\n35\n00:12:50,733 --> 00:13:19,899\n有在真的打疫苗的公會疫苗的可能至少有幾百家以上衛生局都沒有這個人可以配送所以只好去領這樣子那這個部分有沒有更好的方式我們來思考來研議是所以就要麻煩這個部裡面或者是CDC開始做一些統籌那要跟地方政府包括衛生局如果能夠商討出一個好的方式很期待這個部長可以趕快把這個事情\n\n36\n00:13:20,759 --> 00:13:36,203\n好的做一個重要的處理模式那最後其實就是把今天三個部分跟部長來這邊做一些討論的攜帶能夠具體的落實好那我們就繼續努力好謝謝謝謝市委好謝謝文偉謝謝部長\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n309\t11849\t好 謝謝主席我們還是請邱部長請部長\n20089\t44591\t委員好部長好所以今天雖然修法的內容看起來簡單可是如何能夠再落實如何讓它更精進真的是需要大家共同來努力那針對今天我們這個老土法第48條的修正條文裡面我們也提供一些想法來大家互相參考一下\n46652\t74344\t今天大家都看到我們部裡面所提出來的這個書面報告裡面有關於勞扶法為什麼要針對這個福利機構的評鑑做一些調整我想已經講得非常清楚包括召委也希望能夠把勞扶法跟我們目前的這個長照法評鑑機構要去一致就是以前會分等地希望就直接把它設為兩者是一致的是合格或不合格\n75745\t89385\t那這部分部長你也敬表支持那也希望能夠針對於這個條文裡面相關的一些內文在做修正動議以後把它能夠弄得更周全\n91101\t115407\t我想大家都會朝這個方向去努力那在這個宣發過程裡面這個民眾黨他的黨團裡面其實也講到了立法說明說發現目前的評鑑會造成一些行政壓力那機構在處理希望得到高分的同時會投入大量的人力來準備書面的資料跟報表反而會壓縮了這個照顧的時間\n118229\t136142\t這基本上是貝里的長照服務品質提升了本質所以才希望能夠做這一個相關的這些配套措施包括跟兩個法案的一致性那我們也了解這個一致性是非常重要那也期待能夠得到一些改善\n136903\t153304\t不過請教一下就是說我們如果要簡化評鑑標準減輕機構的壓力還要同時兼顧這個評鑑品質得到好的權平衡的話那我們在具體說法上有沒有辦法透過修法來達到這樣的目標\n155526\t165800\t副長或者是次長有沒有相關的意見可以提供給我們做參考我想評鑑是一種不得不的必須要做就像醫院評鑑大家愛愛救但是為了維護品質\n171047\t196442\t以及督導整個醫療院所能夠注意到各種品質的安全各方面這個部分不得不的一個平衡的一個做法謝謝我們大院能夠來關心到這個問題我們也覺得把它變成一致性會更好處理也不用大家在拚\n197463\t217121\t病人這種假意病定的衝到大家壓力大啦那最重要是好好把病人照顧好那這個部分我相信如果有這樣的一個一致性以後我們繼續來修正以及聽聽機構的聲音我相信我們會把平線的制度做得更\n218302\t244608\t更好有必要的話我們都可以來成立小組來演繹這樣子是因為我們知道目前為什麼要把它從這個等D加以丙丁然後變成那個合格跟破合格我們往下看就可以知道目前的老夫法的評鑑標準裡面就有包括現有的如果是沒有修法之前的話就是分了U加以丙丁那丙跟丁基本上是會受到\n245848\t272948\t影響會被公佈他的這個機構的名稱同時會有一些懲處那這個評鑑項目裡面其實還包括五大面向包括經營專業照護安全環境等等那有不同的占比那我們修法以後如果兩個法案的評鑑標準要趨於一致的話那未來在執行的部分包括老夫法跟長照法裡面的這個評鑑標準\n274989\t303436\t有沒有已經同步在做處置這部分不知道目前部裡面有沒有相關的一些處理模式有關這個部分 周代理市長跟委員報告搭配整個條文的修改目前我們也已經邀集了相關的專業團體我們已經有一個研究計畫在做下一輪評鑑的評鑑指標的一個修改\n304236\t321141\t其中包含一個目標就是怎麼樣把評鑑的項目在能夠比較精準的去認定它的品質的情況之下把指標的具體項目一併來做簡化這個是在整個計畫裡面的一個重要的方向\n321941\t347186\t是 因為就好像剛剛昭緯一直在追問的交通部如何能夠針對於我們在提供給社會更公平更能夠服務到不同的族群之下可以有一致性的做法相對的如果我們未來也希望很多的服務的內容都能夠去一致或是對各個單位的要求去一致的話其實在不同的法律之間也應該\n348766\t369794\t基於相同的要求之下應該朝這個方向來進進這很期待如果說衛福部裡面有相關的這些服務的內容分散在不同的這些條法律裡面的話也希望能夠從這個方向去檢討不要讓各個單位在執行的時候造成一些困擾我們會邀請長照師一起來參與就是大家一起來討論讓兩邊的做法能夠趨近\n376616\t400552\t因為我們比較擔心的就是如果透過等一下我們也許會討論到修正動議來看的話會把原來是屬於平等丁等的這部分就直接改成合格或不合格當然那個是要從這個執法裡面再去做確定我們比較擔心的就是本來在一開始的時候針對第48條的前面第一項的前面幾款就會直接如果有\n401172\t420580\t符合規定的話呢就要公佈他的名稱負責人的姓名而且是直接開罰那如果經過修正動議裡面的內文把它往後調調到第八項的話呢會變成說如果是不合格要限期令期改善如果不改善的話呢才要開始做處分\n421500\t443615\t所以相對來講那反而是一個相對的放寬所以我們等一下在做這個修正動力的條文內容的部分我相信大家要提供更多的意見或者是有更好的方式來把這個該有的要讓我們的機構必須要遵守法尊的部分能夠有更周連的處置模式這個是等一下我們會再處理的地方\n445216\t472093\t好的好 那針對是有關於這個博愛座的相關定義跟規範的部分我想是讓我第五三條大家也非常期待有更好的方式來解決目前廠長碰到的困境我本身是已經在現有的博愛座的條件之下我每次搭捷運就很大方的就坐在我該坐的位置那我現在不知道如果調整優先席以後我上到這個捷運或者是到哪裡我應該\n473214\t493423\t怎麼樣去面對這樣的這個環境的就是這個條款改變以後造成的對我的一些影響我相信應該有很多人會開始要不知道怎麼樣去面對這種從博愛做變成優先席這樣的這個概念上的處置所以對於使用需求跟精神上的處置我相信\n495004\t506589\t衛福部應該是責無旁貸要把這些要求或者是精神能夠貫注到日常的生活裡面做適當的處置那不知道這邊衛福部有沒有做哪一些的準備\n507557\t531549\t好 我想委員提的這個很重要圖法不只於自省所以怎麼樣在桌前性的 不然的話那你本來應該要坐在那裡 才坐到如坐尊山的確會有這種擔心所以我們可能要把所有的配套與宣導的內容可能都要做桌前性的一個\n533168\t555733\t一個一個設計,讓該做的做到哪一邊,該比更需要的可能就這個時候就可能給更需要的人這樣子我們希望整個設計到這樣的一個,形成這樣的一個文化,那文化是需要來宣導的這個部分我想我們會做這些委員的提醒,我們會把它做折扣性的一個來處理\n556853\t577094\t因為文化的養成需要比較長久的時間那這個當然也希望有好的社會共識也知道未來在執行的時候可以怎麼樣讓它更優化那最後一個部分就是要比較不是很緊急可是希望能夠盡速來處理的就是有關於公衛疫苗的能源運送的問題\n578175\t594545\t因為我們知道現在天氣已經進入到夏季變得非常炎熱那對疫情的改善或者是目前針對疫情如何能夠有效管控那打疫苗應該是非常重要的一個需要提供給民眾的服務那目前\n595806\t618332\t我們很多的疫苗包括流感疫苗、COVID疫苗、小兒疫苗等等這個都需要透過冷藏的配送來讓這個品質可以得到好的保護可是很多的基層診所在領疫苗的時候需要由醫事人員到當地的衛生局去取回疫苗這個過程相對來講不准耗時而且\n619332\t643934\t如何能夠有好的這個保存的模式其實是會讓人家擔心所以如何能夠討論出一個好的方式來讓這個疫苗的冷鏈配送服務可以更為周全那其實在COVID流行期那段時間很多的縣市是有提供配套措施的它可以透過好的這個冷鏈的配送\n645015\t659922\t能夠讓這個疫苗很安全的而且是很有效率的抵達到不管是在衛生所或者是到急診所來讓這個疫苗的施打可以更為安全更為符合期待那目前並沒有\n661162\t675577\t還是還沒有一個很完整的標準當然這個需要經費也需要一些好的措施跟方法那針對這部分不知道有沒有辦法請這個部裡面盡速的來研商\n676418\t702164\t是針對於這個都會區先做呢還是要從偏鄉或離島先把它處理到一個程度讓全國未來再處理這個能量配送疫苗的這個安全度啊或者是各方面可以達到好的一個保護措施部長這邊有沒有可以提供給我們的想法我想委員提的這個是非常重要的在基層醫療長久以來發生的問題尤其在像COVID剛開始\n706092\t727242\t當時我也擔任台北市醫師公會理事長王偉炎也擔任基隆市醫師公會理事長其實在防疫當中我們都花了很多的心力一個剛開始要打COVID疫苗的時候政府是認了基層診所是沒辦法打當然他們認了很多原因包括冷淚\n728743\t744586\t配送是一個很大的問題但是我們後來經過專家的一個研議認為說他大概怎麼樣的一個運送會沒有問題然後果然這些螞蟻雄兵創造了七成的疫苗施打率\n745972\t768987\t這個部分所以變成裡面解決這個能量的配重是一個很重要的問題那這個因為它跟衛生局有相當大的關係我們部裡面會出面來關心這些有沒有需要幫忙的因為它是相當的複雜診所像台北就有幾千家那不可能\n770733\t799899\t有在真的打疫苗的公會疫苗的可能至少有幾百家以上衛生局都沒有這個人可以配送所以只好去領這樣子那這個部分有沒有更好的方式我們來思考來研議是 所以就要麻煩這個部裡面或者是CDC開始做一些統籌那要跟地方政府包括衛生局如果能夠商討出一個好的方式很期待這個部長可以趕快把這個事情\n800759\t816203\t好的 做一個重要的處理模式那最後其實就是把今天三個部分跟部長來這邊做一些討論的攜帶能夠具體的落實好 那我們就繼續努力好 謝謝 謝謝市委好 謝謝文偉 謝謝部長\n","txt":"好 謝謝主席我們還是請邱部長請部長\n委員好部長好所以今天雖然修法的內容看起來簡單可是如何能夠再落實如何讓它更精進真的是需要大家共同來努力那針對今天我們這個老土法第48條的修正條文裡面我們也提供一些想法來大家互相參考一下\n今天大家都看到我們部裡面所提出來的這個書面報告裡面有關於勞扶法為什麼要針對這個福利機構的評鑑做一些調整我想已經講得非常清楚包括召委也希望能夠把勞扶法跟我們目前的這個長照法評鑑機構要去一致就是以前會分等地希望就直接把它設為兩者是一致的是合格或不合格\n那這部分部長你也敬表支持那也希望能夠針對於這個條文裡面相關的一些內文在做修正動議以後把它能夠弄得更周全\n我想大家都會朝這個方向去努力那在這個宣發過程裡面這個民眾黨他的黨團裡面其實也講到了立法說明說發現目前的評鑑會造成一些行政壓力那機構在處理希望得到高分的同時會投入大量的人力來準備書面的資料跟報表反而會壓縮了這個照顧的時間\n這基本上是貝里的長照服務品質提升了本質所以才希望能夠做這一個相關的這些配套措施包括跟兩個法案的一致性那我們也了解這個一致性是非常重要那也期待能夠得到一些改善\n不過請教一下就是說我們如果要簡化評鑑標準減輕機構的壓力還要同時兼顧這個評鑑品質得到好的權平衡的話那我們在具體說法上有沒有辦法透過修法來達到這樣的目標\n副長或者是次長有沒有相關的意見可以提供給我們做參考我想評鑑是一種不得不的必須要做就像醫院評鑑大家愛愛救但是為了維護品質\n以及督導整個醫療院所能夠注意到各種品質的安全各方面這個部分不得不的一個平衡的一個做法謝謝我們大院能夠來關心到這個問題我們也覺得把它變成一致性會更好處理也不用大家在拚\n病人這種假意病定的衝到大家壓力大啦那最重要是好好把病人照顧好那這個部分我相信如果有這樣的一個一致性以後我們繼續來修正以及聽聽機構的聲音我相信我們會把平線的制度做得更\n更好有必要的話我們都可以來成立小組來演繹這樣子是因為我們知道目前為什麼要把它從這個等D加以丙丁然後變成那個合格跟破合格我們往下看就可以知道目前的老夫法的評鑑標準裡面就有包括現有的如果是沒有修法之前的話就是分了U加以丙丁那丙跟丁基本上是會受到\n影響會被公佈他的這個機構的名稱同時會有一些懲處那這個評鑑項目裡面其實還包括五大面向包括經營專業照護安全環境等等那有不同的占比那我們修法以後如果兩個法案的評鑑標準要趨於一致的話那未來在執行的部分包括老夫法跟長照法裡面的這個評鑑標準\n有沒有已經同步在做處置這部分不知道目前部裡面有沒有相關的一些處理模式有關這個部分 周代理市長跟委員報告搭配整個條文的修改目前我們也已經邀集了相關的專業團體我們已經有一個研究計畫在做下一輪評鑑的評鑑指標的一個修改\n其中包含一個目標就是怎麼樣把評鑑的項目在能夠比較精準的去認定它的品質的情況之下把指標的具體項目一併來做簡化這個是在整個計畫裡面的一個重要的方向\n是 因為就好像剛剛昭緯一直在追問的交通部如何能夠針對於我們在提供給社會更公平更能夠服務到不同的族群之下可以有一致性的做法相對的如果我們未來也希望很多的服務的內容都能夠去一致或是對各個單位的要求去一致的話其實在不同的法律之間也應該\n基於相同的要求之下應該朝這個方向來進進這很期待如果說衛福部裡面有相關的這些服務的內容分散在不同的這些條法律裡面的話也希望能夠從這個方向去檢討不要讓各個單位在執行的時候造成一些困擾我們會邀請長照師一起來參與就是大家一起來討論讓兩邊的做法能夠趨近\n因為我們比較擔心的就是如果透過等一下我們也許會討論到修正動議來看的話會把原來是屬於平等丁等的這部分就直接改成合格或不合格當然那個是要從這個執法裡面再去做確定我們比較擔心的就是本來在一開始的時候針對第48條的前面第一項的前面幾款就會直接如果有\n符合規定的話呢就要公佈他的名稱負責人的姓名而且是直接開罰那如果經過修正動議裡面的內文把它往後調調到第八項的話呢會變成說如果是不合格要限期令期改善如果不改善的話呢才要開始做處分\n所以相對來講那反而是一個相對的放寬所以我們等一下在做這個修正動力的條文內容的部分我相信大家要提供更多的意見或者是有更好的方式來把這個該有的要讓我們的機構必須要遵守法尊的部分能夠有更周連的處置模式這個是等一下我們會再處理的地方\n好的好 那針對是有關於這個博愛座的相關定義跟規範的部分我想是讓我第五三條大家也非常期待有更好的方式來解決目前廠長碰到的困境我本身是已經在現有的博愛座的條件之下我每次搭捷運就很大方的就坐在我該坐的位置那我現在不知道如果調整優先席以後我上到這個捷運或者是到哪裡我應該\n怎麼樣去面對這樣的這個環境的就是這個條款改變以後造成的對我的一些影響我相信應該有很多人會開始要不知道怎麼樣去面對這種從博愛做變成優先席這樣的這個概念上的處置所以對於使用需求跟精神上的處置我相信\n衛福部應該是責無旁貸要把這些要求或者是精神能夠貫注到日常的生活裡面做適當的處置那不知道這邊衛福部有沒有做哪一些的準備\n好 我想委員提的這個很重要圖法不只於自省所以怎麼樣在桌前性的 不然的話那你本來應該要坐在那裡 才坐到如坐尊山的確會有這種擔心所以我們可能要把所有的配套與宣導的內容可能都要做桌前性的一個\n一個一個設計,讓該做的做到哪一邊,該比更需要的可能就這個時候就可能給更需要的人這樣子我們希望整個設計到這樣的一個,形成這樣的一個文化,那文化是需要來宣導的這個部分我想我們會做這些委員的提醒,我們會把它做折扣性的一個來處理\n因為文化的養成需要比較長久的時間那這個當然也希望有好的社會共識也知道未來在執行的時候可以怎麼樣讓它更優化那最後一個部分就是要比較不是很緊急可是希望能夠盡速來處理的就是有關於公衛疫苗的能源運送的問題\n因為我們知道現在天氣已經進入到夏季變得非常炎熱那對疫情的改善或者是目前針對疫情如何能夠有效管控那打疫苗應該是非常重要的一個需要提供給民眾的服務那目前\n我們很多的疫苗包括流感疫苗、COVID疫苗、小兒疫苗等等這個都需要透過冷藏的配送來讓這個品質可以得到好的保護可是很多的基層診所在領疫苗的時候需要由醫事人員到當地的衛生局去取回疫苗這個過程相對來講不准耗時而且\n如何能夠有好的這個保存的模式其實是會讓人家擔心所以如何能夠討論出一個好的方式來讓這個疫苗的冷鏈配送服務可以更為周全那其實在COVID流行期那段時間很多的縣市是有提供配套措施的它可以透過好的這個冷鏈的配送\n能夠讓這個疫苗很安全的而且是很有效率的抵達到不管是在衛生所或者是到急診所來讓這個疫苗的施打可以更為安全更為符合期待那目前並沒有\n還是還沒有一個很完整的標準當然這個需要經費也需要一些好的措施跟方法那針對這部分不知道有沒有辦法請這個部裡面盡速的來研商\n是針對於這個都會區先做呢還是要從偏鄉或離島先把它處理到一個程度讓全國未來再處理這個能量配送疫苗的這個安全度啊或者是各方面可以達到好的一個保護措施部長這邊有沒有可以提供給我們的想法我想委員提的這個是非常重要的在基層醫療長久以來發生的問題尤其在像COVID剛開始\n當時我也擔任台北市醫師公會理事長王偉炎也擔任基隆市醫師公會理事長其實在防疫當中我們都花了很多的心力一個剛開始要打COVID疫苗的時候政府是認了基層診所是沒辦法打當然他們認了很多原因包括冷淚\n配送是一個很大的問題但是我們後來經過專家的一個研議認為說他大概怎麼樣的一個運送會沒有問題然後果然這些螞蟻雄兵創造了七成的疫苗施打率\n這個部分所以變成裡面解決這個能量的配重是一個很重要的問題那這個因為它跟衛生局有相當大的關係我們部裡面會出面來關心這些有沒有需要幫忙的因為它是相當的複雜診所像台北就有幾千家那不可能\n有在真的打疫苗的公會疫苗的可能至少有幾百家以上衛生局都沒有這個人可以配送所以只好去領這樣子那這個部分有沒有更好的方式我們來思考來研議是 所以就要麻煩這個部裡面或者是CDC開始做一些統籌那要跟地方政府包括衛生局如果能夠商討出一個好的方式很期待這個部長可以趕快把這個事情\n好的 做一個重要的處理模式那最後其實就是把今天三個部分跟部長來這邊做一些討論的攜帶能夠具體的落實好 那我們就繼續努力好 謝謝 謝謝市委好 謝謝文偉 謝謝部長\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.309 --> 00:11.849\n好謝謝主席我們還是請邱部長請部長\n\n00:20.089 --> 00:44.591\n委員好部長好所以今天雖然修法的內容看起來簡單可是如何能夠再落實如何讓它更精進真的是需要大家共同來努力那針對今天我們這個老土法第48條的修正條文裡面我們也提供一些想法來大家互相參考一下\n\n00:46.652 --> 01:14.344\n今天大家都看到我們部裡面所提出來的這個書面報告裡面有關於勞扶法為什麼要針對這個福利機構的評鑑做一些調整我想已經講得非常清楚包括召委也希望能夠把勞扶法跟我們目前的這個長照法評鑑機構要去一致就是以前會分等地希望就直接把它設為兩者是一致的是合格或不合格\n\n01:15.745 --> 01:29.385\n那這部分部長你也敬表支持那也希望能夠針對於這個條文裡面相關的一些內文在做修正動議以後把它能夠弄得更周全\n\n01:31.101 --> 01:55.407\n我想大家都會朝這個方向去努力那在這個宣發過程裡面這個民眾黨他的黨團裡面其實也講到了立法說明說發現目前的評鑑會造成一些行政壓力那機構在處理希望得到高分的同時會投入大量的人力來準備書面的資料跟報表反而會壓縮了這個照顧的時間\n\n01:58.229 --> 02:16.142\n這基本上是貝里的長照服務品質提升了本質所以才希望能夠做這一個相關的這些配套措施包括跟兩個法案的一致性那我們也了解這個一致性是非常重要那也期待能夠得到一些改善\n\n02:16.903 --> 02:33.304\n不過請教一下就是說我們如果要簡化評鑑標準減輕機構的壓力還要同時兼顧這個評鑑品質得到好的權平衡的話那我們在具體說法上有沒有辦法透過修法來達到這樣的目標\n\n02:35.526 --> 02:45.800\n副長或者是次長有沒有相關的意見可以提供給我們做參考我想評鑑是一種不得不的必須要做就像醫院評鑑大家愛愛救但是為了維護品質\n\n02:51.047 --> 03:16.442\n以及督導整個醫療院所能夠注意到各種品質的安全各方面這個部分不得不的一個平衡的一個做法謝謝我們大院能夠來關心到這個問題我們也覺得把它變成一致性會更好處理也不用大家在拚\n\n03:17.463 --> 03:37.121\n病人這種假意病定的衝到大家壓力大啦那最重要是好好把病人照顧好那這個部分我相信如果有這樣的一個一致性以後我們繼續來修正以及聽聽機構的聲音我相信我們會把平線的制度做得更\n\n03:38.302 --> 04:04.608\n更好有必要的話我們都可以來成立小組來演繹這樣子是因為我們知道目前為什麼要把它從這個等D加以丙丁然後變成那個合格跟破合格我們往下看就可以知道目前的老夫法的評鑑標準裡面就有包括現有的如果是沒有修法之前的話就是分了U加以丙丁那丙跟丁基本上是會受到\n\n04:05.848 --> 04:32.948\n影響會被公佈他的這個機構的名稱同時會有一些懲處那這個評鑑項目裡面其實還包括五大面向包括經營專業照護安全環境等等那有不同的占比那我們修法以後如果兩個法案的評鑑標準要趨於一致的話那未來在執行的部分包括老夫法跟長照法裡面的這個評鑑標準\n\n04:34.989 --> 05:03.436\n有沒有已經同步在做處置這部分不知道目前部裡面有沒有相關的一些處理模式有關這個部分周代理市長跟委員報告搭配整個條文的修改目前我們也已經邀集了相關的專業團體我們已經有一個研究計畫在做下一輪評鑑的評鑑指標的一個修改\n\n05:04.236 --> 05:21.141\n其中包含一個目標就是怎麼樣把評鑑的項目在能夠比較精準的去認定它的品質的情況之下把指標的具體項目一併來做簡化這個是在整個計畫裡面的一個重要的方向\n\n05:21.941 --> 05:47.186\n是因為就好像剛剛昭緯一直在追問的交通部如何能夠針對於我們在提供給社會更公平更能夠服務到不同的族群之下可以有一致性的做法相對的如果我們未來也希望很多的服務的內容都能夠去一致或是對各個單位的要求去一致的話其實在不同的法律之間也應該\n\n05:48.766 --> 06:09.794\n基於相同的要求之下應該朝這個方向來進進這很期待如果說衛福部裡面有相關的這些服務的內容分散在不同的這些條法律裡面的話也希望能夠從這個方向去檢討不要讓各個單位在執行的時候造成一些困擾我們會邀請長照師一起來參與就是大家一起來討論讓兩邊的做法能夠趨近\n\n06:16.616 --> 06:40.552\n因為我們比較擔心的就是如果透過等一下我們也許會討論到修正動議來看的話會把原來是屬於平等丁等的這部分就直接改成合格或不合格當然那個是要從這個執法裡面再去做確定我們比較擔心的就是本來在一開始的時候針對第48條的前面第一項的前面幾款就會直接如果有\n\n06:41.172 --> 07:00.580\n符合規定的話呢就要公佈他的名稱負責人的姓名而且是直接開罰那如果經過修正動議裡面的內文把它往後調調到第八項的話呢會變成說如果是不合格要限期令期改善如果不改善的話呢才要開始做處分\n\n07:01.500 --> 07:23.615\n所以相對來講那反而是一個相對的放寬所以我們等一下在做這個修正動力的條文內容的部分我相信大家要提供更多的意見或者是有更好的方式來把這個該有的要讓我們的機構必須要遵守法尊的部分能夠有更周連的處置模式這個是等一下我們會再處理的地方\n\n07:25.216 --> 07:52.093\n好的好那針對是有關於這個博愛座的相關定義跟規範的部分我想是讓我第五三條大家也非常期待有更好的方式來解決目前廠長碰到的困境我本身是已經在現有的博愛座的條件之下我每次搭捷運就很大方的就坐在我該坐的位置那我現在不知道如果調整優先席以後我上到這個捷運或者是到哪裡我應該\n\n07:53.214 --> 08:13.423\n怎麼樣去面對這樣的這個環境的就是這個條款改變以後造成的對我的一些影響我相信應該有很多人會開始要不知道怎麼樣去面對這種從博愛做變成優先席這樣的這個概念上的處置所以對於使用需求跟精神上的處置我相信\n\n08:15.004 --> 08:26.589\n衛福部應該是責無旁貸要把這些要求或者是精神能夠貫注到日常的生活裡面做適當的處置那不知道這邊衛福部有沒有做哪一些的準備\n\n08:27.557 --> 08:51.549\n好我想委員提的這個很重要圖法不只於自省所以怎麼樣在桌前性的不然的話那你本來應該要坐在那裡才坐到如坐尊山的確會有這種擔心所以我們可能要把所有的配套與宣導的內容可能都要做桌前性的一個\n\n08:53.168 --> 09:15.733\n一個一個設計,讓該做的做到哪一邊,該比更需要的可能就這個時候就可能給更需要的人這樣子我們希望整個設計到這樣的一個,形成這樣的一個文化,那文化是需要來宣導的這個部分我想我們會做這些委員的提醒,我們會把它做折扣性的一個來處理\n\n09:16.853 --> 09:37.094\n因為文化的養成需要比較長久的時間那這個當然也希望有好的社會共識也知道未來在執行的時候可以怎麼樣讓它更優化那最後一個部分就是要比較不是很緊急可是希望能夠盡速來處理的就是有關於公衛疫苗的能源運送的問題\n\n09:38.175 --> 09:54.545\n因為我們知道現在天氣已經進入到夏季變得非常炎熱那對疫情的改善或者是目前針對疫情如何能夠有效管控那打疫苗應該是非常重要的一個需要提供給民眾的服務那目前\n\n09:55.806 --> 10:18.332\n我們很多的疫苗包括流感疫苗、COVID疫苗、小兒疫苗等等這個都需要透過冷藏的配送來讓這個品質可以得到好的保護可是很多的基層診所在領疫苗的時候需要由醫事人員到當地的衛生局去取回疫苗這個過程相對來講不准耗時而且\n\n10:19.332 --> 10:43.934\n如何能夠有好的這個保存的模式其實是會讓人家擔心所以如何能夠討論出一個好的方式來讓這個疫苗的冷鏈配送服務可以更為周全那其實在COVID流行期那段時間很多的縣市是有提供配套措施的它可以透過好的這個冷鏈的配送\n\n10:45.015 --> 10:59.922\n能夠讓這個疫苗很安全的而且是很有效率的抵達到不管是在衛生所或者是到急診所來讓這個疫苗的施打可以更為安全更為符合期待那目前並沒有\n\n11:01.162 --> 11:15.577\n還是還沒有一個很完整的標準當然這個需要經費也需要一些好的措施跟方法那針對這部分不知道有沒有辦法請這個部裡面盡速的來研商\n\n11:16.418 --> 11:42.164\n是針對於這個都會區先做呢還是要從偏鄉或離島先把它處理到一個程度讓全國未來再處理這個能量配送疫苗的這個安全度啊或者是各方面可以達到好的一個保護措施部長這邊有沒有可以提供給我們的想法我想委員提的這個是非常重要的在基層醫療長久以來發生的問題尤其在像COVID剛開始\n\n11:46.092 --> 12:07.242\n當時我也擔任台北市醫師公會理事長王偉炎也擔任基隆市醫師公會理事長其實在防疫當中我們都花了很多的心力一個剛開始要打COVID疫苗的時候政府是認了基層診所是沒辦法打當然他們認了很多原因包括冷淚\n\n12:08.743 --> 12:24.586\n配送是一個很大的問題但是我們後來經過專家的一個研議認為說他大概怎麼樣的一個運送會沒有問題然後果然這些螞蟻雄兵創造了七成的疫苗施打率\n\n12:25.972 --> 12:48.987\n這個部分所以變成裡面解決這個能量的配重是一個很重要的問題那這個因為它跟衛生局有相當大的關係我們部裡面會出面來關心這些有沒有需要幫忙的因為它是相當的複雜診所像台北就有幾千家那不可能\n\n12:50.733 --> 13:19.899\n有在真的打疫苗的公會疫苗的可能至少有幾百家以上衛生局都沒有這個人可以配送所以只好去領這樣子那這個部分有沒有更好的方式我們來思考來研議是所以就要麻煩這個部裡面或者是CDC開始做一些統籌那要跟地方政府包括衛生局如果能夠商討出一個好的方式很期待這個部長可以趕快把這個事情\n\n13:20.759 --> 13:36.203\n好的做一個重要的處理模式那最後其實就是把今天三個部分跟部長來這邊做一些討論的攜帶能夠具體的落實好那我們就繼續努力好謝謝謝謝市委好謝謝文偉謝謝部長\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.309,"end":11.849,"text":"好 謝謝主席我們還是請邱部長請部長"},{"start":20.089,"end":44.591,"text":"委員好部長好所以今天雖然修法的內容看起來簡單可是如何能夠再落實如何讓它更精進真的是需要大家共同來努力那針對今天我們這個老土法第48條的修正條文裡面我們也提供一些想法來大家互相參考一下"},{"start":46.652,"end":74.344,"text":"今天大家都看到我們部裡面所提出來的這個書面報告裡面有關於勞扶法為什麼要針對這個福利機構的評鑑做一些調整我想已經講得非常清楚包括召委也希望能夠把勞扶法跟我們目前的這個長照法評鑑機構要去一致就是以前會分等地希望就直接把它設為兩者是一致的是合格或不合格"},{"start":75.745,"end":89.385,"text":"那這部分部長你也敬表支持那也希望能夠針對於這個條文裡面相關的一些內文在做修正動議以後把它能夠弄得更周全"},{"start":91.101,"end":115.407,"text":"我想大家都會朝這個方向去努力那在這個宣發過程裡面這個民眾黨他的黨團裡面其實也講到了立法說明說發現目前的評鑑會造成一些行政壓力那機構在處理希望得到高分的同時會投入大量的人力來準備書面的資料跟報表反而會壓縮了這個照顧的時間"},{"start":118.229,"end":136.142,"text":"這基本上是貝里的長照服務品質提升了本質所以才希望能夠做這一個相關的這些配套措施包括跟兩個法案的一致性那我們也了解這個一致性是非常重要那也期待能夠得到一些改善"},{"start":136.903,"end":153.304,"text":"不過請教一下就是說我們如果要簡化評鑑標準減輕機構的壓力還要同時兼顧這個評鑑品質得到好的權平衡的話那我們在具體說法上有沒有辦法透過修法來達到這樣的目標"},{"start":155.526,"end":165.8,"text":"副長或者是次長有沒有相關的意見可以提供給我們做參考我想評鑑是一種不得不的必須要做就像醫院評鑑大家愛愛救但是為了維護品質"},{"start":171.047,"end":196.442,"text":"以及督導整個醫療院所能夠注意到各種品質的安全各方面這個部分不得不的一個平衡的一個做法謝謝我們大院能夠來關心到這個問題我們也覺得把它變成一致性會更好處理也不用大家在拚"},{"start":197.463,"end":217.121,"text":"病人這種假意病定的衝到大家壓力大啦那最重要是好好把病人照顧好那這個部分我相信如果有這樣的一個一致性以後我們繼續來修正以及聽聽機構的聲音我相信我們會把平線的制度做得更"},{"start":218.302,"end":244.608,"text":"更好有必要的話我們都可以來成立小組來演繹這樣子是因為我們知道目前為什麼要把它從這個等D加以丙丁然後變成那個合格跟破合格我們往下看就可以知道目前的老夫法的評鑑標準裡面就有包括現有的如果是沒有修法之前的話就是分了U加以丙丁那丙跟丁基本上是會受到"},{"start":245.848,"end":272.948,"text":"影響會被公佈他的這個機構的名稱同時會有一些懲處那這個評鑑項目裡面其實還包括五大面向包括經營專業照護安全環境等等那有不同的占比那我們修法以後如果兩個法案的評鑑標準要趨於一致的話那未來在執行的部分包括老夫法跟長照法裡面的這個評鑑標準"},{"start":274.989,"end":303.436,"text":"有沒有已經同步在做處置這部分不知道目前部裡面有沒有相關的一些處理模式有關這個部分 周代理市長跟委員報告搭配整個條文的修改目前我們也已經邀集了相關的專業團體我們已經有一個研究計畫在做下一輪評鑑的評鑑指標的一個修改"},{"start":304.236,"end":321.141,"text":"其中包含一個目標就是怎麼樣把評鑑的項目在能夠比較精準的去認定它的品質的情況之下把指標的具體項目一併來做簡化這個是在整個計畫裡面的一個重要的方向"},{"start":321.941,"end":347.186,"text":"是 因為就好像剛剛昭緯一直在追問的交通部如何能夠針對於我們在提供給社會更公平更能夠服務到不同的族群之下可以有一致性的做法相對的如果我們未來也希望很多的服務的內容都能夠去一致或是對各個單位的要求去一致的話其實在不同的法律之間也應該"},{"start":348.766,"end":369.794,"text":"基於相同的要求之下應該朝這個方向來進進這很期待如果說衛福部裡面有相關的這些服務的內容分散在不同的這些條法律裡面的話也希望能夠從這個方向去檢討不要讓各個單位在執行的時候造成一些困擾我們會邀請長照師一起來參與就是大家一起來討論讓兩邊的做法能夠趨近"},{"start":376.616,"end":400.552,"text":"因為我們比較擔心的就是如果透過等一下我們也許會討論到修正動議來看的話會把原來是屬於平等丁等的這部分就直接改成合格或不合格當然那個是要從這個執法裡面再去做確定我們比較擔心的就是本來在一開始的時候針對第48條的前面第一項的前面幾款就會直接如果有"},{"start":401.172,"end":420.58,"text":"符合規定的話呢就要公佈他的名稱負責人的姓名而且是直接開罰那如果經過修正動議裡面的內文把它往後調調到第八項的話呢會變成說如果是不合格要限期令期改善如果不改善的話呢才要開始做處分"},{"start":421.5,"end":443.615,"text":"所以相對來講那反而是一個相對的放寬所以我們等一下在做這個修正動力的條文內容的部分我相信大家要提供更多的意見或者是有更好的方式來把這個該有的要讓我們的機構必須要遵守法尊的部分能夠有更周連的處置模式這個是等一下我們會再處理的地方"},{"start":445.216,"end":472.093,"text":"好的好 那針對是有關於這個博愛座的相關定義跟規範的部分我想是讓我第五三條大家也非常期待有更好的方式來解決目前廠長碰到的困境我本身是已經在現有的博愛座的條件之下我每次搭捷運就很大方的就坐在我該坐的位置那我現在不知道如果調整優先席以後我上到這個捷運或者是到哪裡我應該"},{"start":473.214,"end":493.423,"text":"怎麼樣去面對這樣的這個環境的就是這個條款改變以後造成的對我的一些影響我相信應該有很多人會開始要不知道怎麼樣去面對這種從博愛做變成優先席這樣的這個概念上的處置所以對於使用需求跟精神上的處置我相信"},{"start":495.004,"end":506.589,"text":"衛福部應該是責無旁貸要把這些要求或者是精神能夠貫注到日常的生活裡面做適當的處置那不知道這邊衛福部有沒有做哪一些的準備"},{"start":507.557,"end":531.549,"text":"好 我想委員提的這個很重要圖法不只於自省所以怎麼樣在桌前性的 不然的話那你本來應該要坐在那裡 才坐到如坐尊山的確會有這種擔心所以我們可能要把所有的配套與宣導的內容可能都要做桌前性的一個"},{"start":533.168,"end":555.733,"text":"一個一個設計,讓該做的做到哪一邊,該比更需要的可能就這個時候就可能給更需要的人這樣子我們希望整個設計到這樣的一個,形成這樣的一個文化,那文化是需要來宣導的這個部分我想我們會做這些委員的提醒,我們會把它做折扣性的一個來處理"},{"start":556.853,"end":577.094,"text":"因為文化的養成需要比較長久的時間那這個當然也希望有好的社會共識也知道未來在執行的時候可以怎麼樣讓它更優化那最後一個部分就是要比較不是很緊急可是希望能夠盡速來處理的就是有關於公衛疫苗的能源運送的問題"},{"start":578.175,"end":594.545,"text":"因為我們知道現在天氣已經進入到夏季變得非常炎熱那對疫情的改善或者是目前針對疫情如何能夠有效管控那打疫苗應該是非常重要的一個需要提供給民眾的服務那目前"},{"start":595.806,"end":618.332,"text":"我們很多的疫苗包括流感疫苗、COVID疫苗、小兒疫苗等等這個都需要透過冷藏的配送來讓這個品質可以得到好的保護可是很多的基層診所在領疫苗的時候需要由醫事人員到當地的衛生局去取回疫苗這個過程相對來講不准耗時而且"},{"start":619.332,"end":643.934,"text":"如何能夠有好的這個保存的模式其實是會讓人家擔心所以如何能夠討論出一個好的方式來讓這個疫苗的冷鏈配送服務可以更為周全那其實在COVID流行期那段時間很多的縣市是有提供配套措施的它可以透過好的這個冷鏈的配送"},{"start":645.015,"end":659.922,"text":"能夠讓這個疫苗很安全的而且是很有效率的抵達到不管是在衛生所或者是到急診所來讓這個疫苗的施打可以更為安全更為符合期待那目前並沒有"},{"start":661.162,"end":675.577,"text":"還是還沒有一個很完整的標準當然這個需要經費也需要一些好的措施跟方法那針對這部分不知道有沒有辦法請這個部裡面盡速的來研商"},{"start":676.418,"end":702.164,"text":"是針對於這個都會區先做呢還是要從偏鄉或離島先把它處理到一個程度讓全國未來再處理這個能量配送疫苗的這個安全度啊或者是各方面可以達到好的一個保護措施部長這邊有沒有可以提供給我們的想法我想委員提的這個是非常重要的在基層醫療長久以來發生的問題尤其在像COVID剛開始"},{"start":706.092,"end":727.242,"text":"當時我也擔任台北市醫師公會理事長王偉炎也擔任基隆市醫師公會理事長其實在防疫當中我們都花了很多的心力一個剛開始要打COVID疫苗的時候政府是認了基層診所是沒辦法打當然他們認了很多原因包括冷淚"},{"start":728.743,"end":744.586,"text":"配送是一個很大的問題但是我們後來經過專家的一個研議認為說他大概怎麼樣的一個運送會沒有問題然後果然這些螞蟻雄兵創造了七成的疫苗施打率"},{"start":745.972,"end":768.987,"text":"這個部分所以變成裡面解決這個能量的配重是一個很重要的問題那這個因為它跟衛生局有相當大的關係我們部裡面會出面來關心這些有沒有需要幫忙的因為它是相當的複雜診所像台北就有幾千家那不可能"},{"start":770.733,"end":799.899,"text":"有在真的打疫苗的公會疫苗的可能至少有幾百家以上衛生局都沒有這個人可以配送所以只好去領這樣子那這個部分有沒有更好的方式我們來思考來研議是 所以就要麻煩這個部裡面或者是CDC開始做一些統籌那要跟地方政府包括衛生局如果能夠商討出一個好的方式很期待這個部長可以趕快把這個事情"},{"start":800.759,"end":816.203,"text":"好的 做一個重要的處理模式那最後其實就是把今天三個部分跟部長來這邊做一些討論的攜帶能夠具體的落實好 那我們就繼續努力好 謝謝 謝謝市委好 謝謝文偉 謝謝部長"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":1006,"blocks":[["王委員正旭：（12時7分）謝謝主席，我們還是請邱部長。"],["主席：請部長。"],["邱部長泰源：委員好。"],["王委員正旭：部長好。雖然今天修法的內容看起來簡單，可是如何能夠落實，如何讓它更精進，真的是需要大家共同努力，針對今天的老福法第四十八條修正條文，我們也提供一些想法，大家互相參考一下。今天大家都看到部裡面所提出來的書面報告，有關老福法為什麼要針對福利機構的評鑑做一些調整，我想已經講得非常清楚。包括召委也希望能夠把老福法跟目前長照法的機構評鑑一致化，就是以前會分等第，希望直接將兩者修為一致，就是合格或不合格。這部分部長表示支持，也希望能夠針對條文內容再做修正，把它弄得更周全，我想大家都會朝這個方向去努力。","在修法的過程中，民眾黨黨團的立法說明裡面也提到，目前的評鑑會造成一些行政壓力，機構在處理評鑑，希望得到高分的同時，會投入大量人力準備書面的資料跟報表，反而會壓縮照顧的時間，這個基本上是背離了長照服務品質提升的本質，所以才希望能夠做一些相關的配套措施，包括兩個法案的一致性。我們也了解，一致性是非常重要的，也期待能夠得到一些改善。不過請教一下，我們如果要簡化評鑑標準，減輕機構的壓力，還要同時兼顧評鑑品質，得到好的平衡的話，我們在具體的作法上，有沒有辦法透過修法來達到這樣的目標？請問部長或是次長，有沒有相關的意見可以提供給我們做參考？"],["邱部長泰源：我想評鑑是一種不得不的必須要做，就像醫院評鑑，大家「哀哀叫」，但是為了維護品質以及督導整個醫療院所，能夠注意到品質、安全等各方面，這是不得不的一個平衡的作法。謝謝大院能夠關心到這個問題，我們也覺得把它變成一致性會更好處理，大家也不用再「拚」那個甲、乙、丙、丁的，弄得大家壓力很大，最重要的是好好地把病人照顧好。這部分我相信如果能做到一致性以後，我們繼續來修正以及聽聽機構的聲音，相信會把評鑑的制度做得更好，有必要的話我們都可以成立小組來研議。"],["王委員正旭：是。我們知道目前為什麼要把它從甲乙丙丁的等第變成合格跟不合格，我們往下看就可以知道，目前老福法的評鑑標準裡面，現有的沒有修法之前就是分為優、甲、乙、丙，丁共5個等第，評鑑結果若是丙跟丁會受到影響，會被公布機構的名稱，同時會有一些懲處。評鑑項目裡面有五大面向，包括經營、專業照護、安全環境等等，有不同的占比。我們修法以後，如果兩個法案的評鑑標準要趨於一致的話，未來在執行的部分，包括老福法跟長照法裡面的評鑑標準，是否已經同步在做處置？這部分不知道目前部裡面有沒有相關的一些處理模式？"],["邱部長泰源：有關這個部分，請周代理署長來說明。"],["周代理署長道君：跟委員報告，搭配整個條文的修改，目前我們已經邀集了相關的專業團體，我們也有一個研究計畫在做下一輪評鑑的評鑑指標的修改，其中包含一個目標，就是怎麼樣把評鑑的項目，在能夠比較精準地去認定它的品質的情況之下，把指標的具體項目的部分一併做簡化，這個是在整個計畫裡面的一個重要方向。"],["王委員正旭：就好像剛剛召委一直在追問的，交通部如何能夠針對我們在提供給社會更公平、更能夠服務到不同的族群之下，可以有一致性的作法；相對的，如果我們未來也希望很多的服務內容都能夠趨於一致，或者是對各個單位的要求趨於一致的話，其實在不同的法律之間，也應該基於相同的要求朝這個方向來精進。所以我們很期待，如果衛福部有相關的服務內容分散在不同的法律裡面，也希望能夠從這個方向去檢討，不要讓各個單位在執行的時候造成一些困擾。"],["周代理署長道君：是，跟委員報告，研修的過程我們會邀請長照司一起來參與，就是大家一起來討論，讓兩邊的作法能夠趨近。"],["王委員正旭：好。因為我們比較擔心的是，等一下我們也許會討論到修正動議，會把原來是屬於丙等、丁等的這部分直接改成合格或不合格，當然那是要從子法裡面再去做確定。我們比較擔心的是，本來在一開始的時候，針對第四十八條第一項前面幾款，如果有不符合規定的話，就要公布它的名稱、負責人的姓名，而且是直接開罰，如果經過修正動議裡面的內文把它往後調，調到第八項的話，會變成說如果是不合格，要限期令其改善，如果不改善才要開始做處分。所以相對來講，這反而是相對的放寬。所以我們等一下在看修正動議的條文內容，我相信大家要提供更多的意見，或者是有更好的方式來把該有的，要讓我們的機構必須要遵守法令的部分，能夠有更周延的處置模式，這是等一下我們會再處理的地方。"],["邱部長泰源：好的。"],["王委員正旭：針對博愛座的相關定義跟規範的部分，我想關於身障法第五十三條，大家也非常期待有更好的方式來解決目前常常碰到的困境。我本身是在現有的博愛座的條件之下，每次搭捷運就很大方的坐在我該坐的位置，我現在不知道如果調整為優先席以後，我搭上捷運或者是到哪裡，應該怎麼樣去面對這樣的環境。就是這個法改變以後對我造成的一些影響，我相信應該有很多人會開始不知道怎麼樣去面對從博愛座變成優先席這樣概念上的處置，所以對使用需求跟精神上的處置，我相信衛福部應該是責無旁貸，要把這些要求或者是精神能夠灌注到日常生活裡面做適當的處置，不知道衛福部有沒有做哪些準備？"],["邱部長泰源：我想委員提的這個很重要，徒法不足以自行，所以看怎麼樣能夠做到周全性，不然的話，你本來應該坐在那邊，結果卻如坐針氈，的確會有這種擔心，所以我們可能要把所有的配套與宣導的內容做周全性的設計，讓該坐的人坐在那邊，若有更需要的人，這個時候可能就給更需要的人。我們希望整個設計到形成這樣的一個文化，文化是需要宣導的，這個部分我想我們會做，謝謝委員的提醒，我們會把它做周全性的處理。"],["王委員正旭：因為文化的養成需要比較長久的時間，這個部分當然也希望能夠有好的社會共識，也知道未來在執行的時候可以怎麼樣讓它更為優化。","最後一個部分不是很緊急，可是希望能夠儘速來處理的就是有關於公費疫苗的冷鏈運送問題。我們知道現在已經進入到夏季，天氣變得非常炎熱，對於疫情的改善，或者是目前針對疫情如何能夠有效管控，打疫苗應該是非常重要的一個需要提供給民眾的服務。目前我們很多的疫苗，包括流感疫苗、COVID疫苗、小兒疫苗等等，都需要透過冷藏配送讓品質可以得到好的保護，可是很多基層診所在領疫苗的時候，需要由醫事人員到當地的衛生局去取回疫苗，這個過程相對來講不僅耗時，而且如何能夠有好的保存模式，其實會讓人家擔心，所以如何能夠討論出一個好的方式，讓疫苗的冷鏈配送服務可以更為周全？其實在COVID流行期那段時間，很多縣市是有提供配套措施的，他可以透過好的冷鏈的配送，能夠讓這個疫苗很安全的、很有效率的抵達衛生所或者是到基層診所，讓這個疫苗的施打可以更為安全、更符合期待。目前還沒有一個很完整的標準，當然這需要經費，也需要一些好的措施跟方法，針對這部分，不知道有沒有辦法請部裡面儘速地來研商？是針對都會區先做呢？還是要從偏鄉或離島先把它處理到一個程度，讓全國未來在處理冷鏈配送疫苗的安全度，或者是各方面可以達到好的保護措施？部長這邊有沒有可以提供給我們的想法？"],["邱部長泰源：我想委員提的這個部分是非常重要的，在基層醫療長久以來發生的問題，尤其像COVID剛開始，當時我也擔任臺北市醫師公會理事長，王委員也擔任基隆市醫師公會理事長，其實在防疫當中，我們都花了很多心力。剛開始要打COVID疫苗的時候，政府是認為基層診所沒辦法打，當然他們認為有很多原因，包括冷鏈配送是一個很大的問題，但是後來經過專家的研議，認為大概怎麼樣的運送會沒有問題，然後果然這些螞蟻雄兵創造了7成的疫苗施打率，所以解決冷鏈的配送是很重要的。這跟衛生局有相當大的關係，我們部裡面會出面來關心有沒有需要幫忙的地方，因為這是相當的複雜，像臺北就有幾千家診所，真的有在打公費疫苗的，可能至少有幾百家以上，衛生局大概沒有這個人力可以配送，所以只好他們去領，而這個部分有沒有更好的方式？我們會來思考、研議。"],["王委員正旭：所以就要麻煩部裡面或者是CDC開始做一些統籌，要跟地方政府包括衛生局商討出一個好的方式，很期待部長可以趕快把這個事情做一個重要的處理模式。"],["邱部長泰源：好的。"],["王委員正旭：最後其實就是把今天三個部分跟部長來做一些討論，也期待能夠具體的落實，我們就繼續努力，謝謝。"],["邱部長泰源：是的，謝謝委員。"],["主席：謝謝王委員、謝謝部長。接下來請楊瓊瓔委員。楊瓊瓔委員，楊瓊瓔委員不在。","請陳培瑜委員來做詢答。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":118,"meet_id":"委員會-11-3-26-18","speakers":["劉建國","陳昭姿","林月琴","陳菁徽","邱鎮軍","王育敏","廖偉翔","蘇清泉","黃秀芳","涂權吉","王正旭","陳培瑜","范雲","陳瑩","楊曜","謝龍介","楊瓊瓔","葉元之"],"page_start":1,"meetingDate":["2025-06-23"],"gazette_id":"1146302","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1146302_00002"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第18次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、審查(一)委員劉建國等17人擬具「老人福利法第四十八條條文修正草案」案、(二)台灣民眾\n黨黨團擬具「老人福利法第四十八條條文修正草案」案；二、審查( 一) 委員許宇甄等18 人擬具\n「身心障礙者權益保障法第五十三條條文修正草案」案、(二)委員邱鎮軍等19人擬具「身心障礙\n者權益保障法第五十三條條文修正草案」案、(三)委員林月琴等17人擬具「身心障礙者權益保障\n法第五十三條條文修正草案」案、(四)委員陳菁徽等18人擬具「身心障礙者權益保障法第五十三\n條條文修正草案」案、(五)台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「身心障礙者權益保障法第五十三條條文修正草\n案」案、(六)委員范雲等17人擬具「身心障礙者權益保障法第五十三條條文修正草案」案、(七)\n委員邱若華等17人擬具「身心障礙者權益保障法第五十三條條文修正草案」案【提案第11006882\n號】、(八)委員魯明哲等19人擬具「身心障礙者權益保障法第五十三條條文修正草案」案、(九)\n委員傅崐萁等24人擬具「身心障礙者權益保障法第五十三條條文修正草案」案、(十)委員洪孟楷\n等17人擬具「身心障礙者權益保障法第五十三條條文修正草案」案、(十一)委員邱若華等17人擬\n具「身心障礙者權益保障法第五十三條條文修正草案」案【提案第11010755號】；三、審查(一)\n委員范雲等17人擬具「身心障礙者權益保障法部分條文修正草案」案、(二)委員郭昱晴等19人擬\n具「身心障礙者權益保障法第十六條條文修正草案」案、(三)委員何欣純等17人擬具「身心障礙\n者權益保障法部分條文修正草案」案、(四)委員陳冠廷等16人擬具「身心障礙者權益保障法第三\n十八條條文修正草案」案、(五)委員陳冠廷等20人擬具「身心障礙者權益保障法第二條、第五十\n三條及第九十九條條文修正草案」案、(六)委員徐富癸等18人擬具「身心障礙者權益保障法第十\n條條文修正草案」案、(七)委員羅廷瑋等16人擬具「身心障礙者權益保障法部分條文修正草案」\n案、(八)委員黃捷等17人擬具「身心障礙者權益保障法第七十一條條文修正草案」案、(九)委員\n王鴻薇等20人擬具「身心障礙者權益保障法增訂第四十條之一條文草案」案、(十)委員柯志恩等\n18人擬具「身心障礙者權益保障法增訂第四十條之一條文草案」案、(十一)委員柯志恩等17人擬\n具「身心障礙者權益保障法第六十條之一條文修正草案」案、(十二)委員馬文君等19人擬具「身\n心障礙者權益保障法第三十條之一、第五十條及第五十二條條文修正草案」案、(十三)委員廖偉\n翔等21人擬具「身心障礙者權益保障法增訂第五十條之一條文草案」案、(十四)委員廖偉翔等19\n人擬具「身心障礙者權益保障法部分條文修正草案」案、(十五)委員林楚茵等20人擬具「身心障\n礙者權益保障法第十條條文修正草案」案、(十六)委員陳菁徽等16人擬具「身心障礙者權益保障\n法部分條文修正草案」案、(十七)委員洪孟楷等18人擬具「身心障礙者權益保障法增訂第四十條\n之一條文草案」案、(十八)委員羅美玲等16人擬具「身心障礙者權益保障法部分條文修正草案」\n案、(十九)委員陳俊宇等18人擬具「身心障礙者權益保障法第七十一條條文修正草案」案、(二\n十)委員林楚茵等17人擬具「身心障礙者權益保障法第七十一條條文修正草案」案、(二十一)委\n員劉建國等17人擬具「身心障礙者權益保障法第七十一條條文修正草案」案、(二十二)委員邱若\n華等17人擬具「身心障礙者權益保障法第七十一條條文修正草案」案、(二十三)委員劉建國等17\n人擬具「身心障礙者權益保障法部分條文修正草案」案【第一案至第三案採綜合詢答；本日僅處\n理第一案及第二案】","agenda_id":"1146302_00001"}}}