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{\"word\": \"安\", \"start\": 86.2, \"end\": 86.44, \"score\": 0.736}, {\"word\": \"心\", \"start\": 86.44, \"end\": 86.62, \"score\": 0.895}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 86.62, \"end\": 86.74, \"score\": 0.579}, {\"word\": \"下\", \"start\": 86.74, \"end\": 86.94, \"score\": 0.87}, {\"word\": \"呢\", \"start\": 86.94, \"end\": 87.561, \"score\": 0.781}, {\"word\": \"報\"}, {\"word\": \"告\", \"start\": 87.561, \"end\": 87.681, \"score\": 0.923}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 87.681, \"end\": 87.941, \"score\": 0.767}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 87.941, \"end\": 88.141, \"score\": 0.645}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"大\", \"start\": 88.141, \"end\": 88.161, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"概\", \"start\": 88.161, \"end\": 88.221, \"score\": 0.666}, {\"word\": \"盤\"}, {\"word\": \"過\"}, {\"word\": \"大\", \"start\": 88.221, \"end\": 88.261, \"score\": 0.408}, {\"word\": \"概\", \"start\": 88.261, \"end\": 88.421, \"score\": 0.54}, {\"word\": \"對\"}, {\"word\": \"台\", 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743.152, \"score\": 0.94}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"現\"}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 743.152, \"end\": 743.173, \"score\": 0.001}, {\"word\": \"請\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:05,866 --> 00:00:07,388\n謝謝主席我想請郭部長\n\n2\n00:00:19,430 --> 00:00:37,042\n委員長部長長安那我想現在大家都非常關心的除了這個能源之外呢關稅緩增90天的大限即將到期在7月8號就要到期了不曉得目前談判的進展有沒有結果呢\n\n3\n00:00:38,619 --> 00:00:49,753\n報告委員現在還在這個談判進行中可是只有剩下兩個禮拜就要到期了我們目前有沒有一個基本的方向讓這些產業界可以預先開始準備呢\n\n4\n00:00:53,197 --> 00:01:01,704\n我們在這個開始的時候就有一些就是它被這個豁免90天啦在這90天裡面我們不斷的在研擬整個談判的這個過程是但是不到兩週就要到期了是\n\n5\n00:01:09,970 --> 00:01:29,722\n我們都開始緊張起來了我相信不只立法院緊張甚至所有的產業界所有我們台灣的這些民眾大家都開始這是一個倒數計時所以很想部長可不可以講一些方向讓我們安心一下呢報告委員我們大概盤過大概對台灣比較大的這個衝擊的影響大概就是那個傳產的六個行業\n\n6\n00:01:37,186 --> 00:01:45,770\n那針對這一些可能衝擊比較大的行業我們事實上經濟部透過四個措施都在努力所以目前部長還沒有辦法告訴我們有任何具體談判的結果當然沒辦法所以這兩週還會後續有談判嗎\n\n7\n00:01:54,893 --> 00:02:09,803\n是這樣子大概方向上面大概也可以跟大家報告一下具體當然可能要等院裡面他確定了以後才會跟大家來報告所以已經有具體談判結果但是先抱怨目前沒辦法告訴我們細節現在看起來就是在未來這個紅色供應鏈\n\n8\n00:02:15,908 --> 00:02:30,821\n可能是美國要求對紅色供應鏈開始採取這個懲罰或者是壓制的這樣的一個方向所以這個對台灣來講其實是在某一些產業是有優勢的譬如說我們的半導體這個產業資安這個產業還有AI這個產業對我們台灣來講因為紅色供應鏈的影響而這些訂單勢必\n\n9\n00:02:42,831 --> 00:03:06,770\n要轉向我們所以您覺得這個是我們台灣的機會危機就是轉機嗎另外一個就是比較大的問題可能會產生影響就是因為中國會被賦予高關稅我們在爭取對我們有利的關稅所以在這個情況之下中國他勢必消亡美國的東西沒有辦法去會有一些外地的現象\n\n10\n00:03:07,170 --> 00:03:35,820\n会有一些外溢现象我们在防止这样的一个发生所以为什么我们这一次针对关税我们本来编了这个880亿后来调和930亿对这个关键是在后来为什么变成4100亿主要就是防止中国把他的产品因为关税的因素而外溢到台湾来这外溢有两个第一个可能来台湾洗产地第二个可能走私进到我们台湾的市场\n\n11\n00:03:36,500 --> 00:03:45,202\n我們必須要防止這個走勢喔因為這個走勢對我們整個台灣的生活會產生非常大的影響而造成我們西班牙現在的波動這個劇烈波動喔我還是希望部長這邊要做好準備要做產業最堅實的後盾不要讓任何一個產業孤軍奮鬥那目前喔我接下來要問部長就是說中東這個戰火升級雖然最新的消息說已經局部\n\n12\n00:04:06,688 --> 00:04:30,344\n但是能不能掉以輕心最近外電報導目前伊朗的議會已經通過封鎖荷姆茲海峽的相關提案目前正等他們的最高國家安全委員會要最終拍板荷姆茲海峽大家可以看到它是全球最關鍵的石油航道之一2025年每一季每天單日原油通過量\n\n13\n00:04:35,928 --> 00:04:55,548\n高達兩千萬桶佔全球海運石油的四分之一那封鎖一旦成真這將會是繼1973年1979年1991年之後的第四次石油危機部長這些狀況你掌握目前掌握的如何\n\n14\n00:04:56,252 --> 00:05:09,618\n是報告委員我們經濟部是有成立緊急應對小組的我們已經運作了這個三天了是所以這個緊急應變小組運作這三天有任何的方向嗎有我們現在發現說跟我們所預測的\n\n15\n00:05:13,442 --> 00:05:25,655\n每一天都在變化所以我們會有一些預測What'sthecase到底是怎麼樣的那看起來現在朝著比較樂觀的方向在進行比較樂觀嗎您覺得應該是不會被封鎖布蘭特的油價的報價到今天為止\n\n16\n00:05:31,241 --> 00:05:42,587\n已經降了10個百分比我不能理解你的這個樂觀是哪裡來的因為我們是千萬不能跳以輕心台灣能源依存我們對外的依存是95.77%你跟我說樂觀我們高度依賴中東\n\n17\n00:05:54,674 --> 00:05:58,218\n的這個能源包括萬一在這個石油的路線中斷我們的備援機制是什麼你們有相關沙盤推演過嗎怎麼推演我們的天然氣在我們全國電力占比的四成我們的天然氣主要來的國家是卡達\n\n18\n00:06:15,436 --> 00:06:17,521\n他也是要經過這個海峽他也要經過這個荷姆茲海峽如果我們油也沒辦法進來天然氣也沒辦法進來的話\n\n19\n00:06:25,900 --> 00:06:41,758\n這還可以樂觀嗎報告委員我可以說嗎好謝謝我們天然氣進口的國家大概有14個國家其中卡達來的是25%但是我們從澳洲來的有38%所以您覺得從澳洲的38%是在我們台灣四成電力的38%\n\n20\n00:06:46,062 --> 00:06:54,690\n四成電力的38%而已喔然後還有油價要高漲喔如果假設它高漲的話假設啦而且我們天然氣的儲配量根據能源署的資料只可以支應7至14天事實上我們現在整體台灣的能源方案就是非常的不確定啊所以我們現在是不是\n\n21\n00:07:12,544 --> 00:07:37,332\n我們所有現在用的能源都是非常受國際影響的為什麼呢當初第一次石油危機之後我們台灣就決定蓋核一你要想喔烏克蘭目前打仗到現在它所有的發電廠都被攻擊只有核能廠沒有被攻擊那為什麼在這關鍵的時刻我們沒有思考重啟核能呢是這個謝謝委員\n\n22\n00:07:40,473 --> 00:07:52,177\n因為這一個我們大部分的這個石化的這個能源都是進口所以我們才會再生能源才是我們最重要的但是你現在綠能在我們總發電量的幾%呢\n\n23\n00:07:56,138 --> 00:08:00,940\n我們現在在告訴你說緊急應變的情況之下你綠能第一不能支應你如果被封鎖了你油你天然氣沒有辦法支應的時候你難道不用為這些產業不用為百姓來想一個備案嗎我們當然是有備案如果油輪被迫改道或延誤錯化\n\n24\n00:08:20,868 --> 00:08:38,941\n化工電子原料的供應鏈全部都要受創甚至其他產業整個出口的命脈都會受影響所以我們務必要做最壞的打算最充分的準備但是在這個書面報告當中這書面報告當中完全沒有盤點完全沒有盤點說產業鏈的環節哪裡最脆弱要怎麼樣子的來協助他們\n\n25\n00:08:49,264 --> 00:08:52,385\n從頭到尾這個專案報告裡面都沒有告訴我們這是本席所擔心的如果產生石油危機哪些產業會首當其衝呢塑化產業化工產業包括我們農業都會受創為什麼因為農藥都沒辦法做了我們的農藥我們的肥料包括物流業\n\n26\n00:09:12,512 --> 00:09:40,149\n等等幾乎我們穿的衣服用的牙刷文具所有食衣住行都跟石化產業相關這樣子牽連甚廣的這個產業衝擊請部長務必要有所準備來回應當危機來臨時呢我們的企業怎麼辦我們的民生怎麼辦我們的產線怎麼辦因為依照現在台灣的這個局勢是非常有必要的部長我不曉得您有沒有看這個美國\n\n27\n00:09:42,290 --> 00:09:47,774\nDiplomat就是外交家這個雜誌喔他在五月出了一篇專文他的標題就寫台灣為自己製造的致命弱點淘汰核能他就說在最容易發生衝突的情勢下台灣選擇放棄最穩定最難被戰爭摧毀的核能轉而依賴最容易被封鎖的天然氣跟這個\n\n28\n00:10:11,269 --> 00:10:16,074\n天然氣那這樣子的能源結構等於在國安防線上就挖了一個坑欸可以很容易的癱瘓我們的經濟命脈部長怎麼看我們會參考委員提供的這個資訊\n\n29\n00:10:25,342 --> 00:10:30,608\n那所以呢所以本席在這裡繼續在呼應啦就是說不管是部長包括國發會國發會主委可以不要動沒關係就是說應該在國安能源的思維下要審慎面對這個核能議題了一定不是說我們不是說叫你馬上重啟\n\n30\n00:10:44,963 --> 00:11:04,474\n但是立法院已經把法修好了那你們有沒有開始準備了在全球這個風險升高的此刻已經給了政府一條新的路你不能把唯一的一條最穩定的能源路徑直接封死是不是可以部長開始趕快研議呢\n\n31\n00:11:05,334 --> 00:11:22,687\n我們對這個核能來講我們還是有一個三個原則嘛兩個必須嘛所以我們現在都在進行這兩個必須第一個就是核安會他必須要這個趕快的提出這個定定這個執法嘛\n\n32\n00:11:23,507 --> 00:11:30,910\n然後這個台電要依法來進行安全評估嘛這個其實呢但是這三個原則已經講了幾個月了已經講了幾個月了效率在哪裡我們現在是每天都有非常有可能會有危機出現你已經講了幾個月這三個原則了那有任何的進展嗎好像也沒有看到進展所以我們希望說經濟部把效率拿出來然後把這件事情\n\n33\n00:11:51,418 --> 00:12:19,707\n當然我們希望它都不要發生我們希望這些危機都不要發生但是我們不能漠視說它就保持說應該是不會發生我們要審慎以待我們希望說我們所有的政府官員一定要走出這個舒適區給國家留一些更多的選項而不是說一再的告訴我們說我們還有什麼什麼要想真的危機來的時候想這些都來不及了好不好部長\n\n34\n00:12:20,640 --> 00:12:23,173\n是安全是我們最重視的好謝謝我們現在請\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n5866\t7388\t謝謝主席 我想請郭部長\n19430\t37042\t委員長部長長安那我想現在大家都非常關心的除了這個能源之外呢關稅緩增90天的大限即將到期在7月8號就要到期了不曉得目前談判的進展有沒有結果呢\n38619\t49753\t報告委員現在還在這個談判進行中可是只有剩下兩個禮拜就要到期了我們目前有沒有一個基本的方向讓這些產業界可以預先開始準備呢\n53197\t61704\t我們在這個開始的時候就有一些就是它被這個豁免90天啦在這90天裡面我們不斷的在研擬整個談判的這個過程是但是不到兩週就要到期了是\n69970\t89722\t我們都開始緊張起來了我相信不只立法院緊張甚至所有的產業界所有我們台灣的這些民眾大家都開始這是一個倒數計時所以很想部長可不可以講一些方向讓我們安心一下呢報告委員我們大概盤過大概對台灣比較大的這個衝擊的影響大概就是那個傳產的六個行業\n97186\t105770\t那針對這一些可能衝擊比較大的行業我們事實上經濟部透過四個措施都在努力所以目前部長還沒有辦法告訴我們有任何具體談判的結果當然沒辦法所以這兩週還會後續有談判嗎\n114893\t129803\t是這樣子大概方向上面大概也可以跟大家報告一下具體當然可能要等院裡面他確定了以後才會跟大家來報告所以已經有具體談判結果但是先抱怨目前沒辦法告訴我們細節現在看起來就是在未來這個紅色供應鏈\n135908\t150821\t可能是美國要求對紅色供應鏈開始採取這個懲罰或者是壓制的這樣的一個方向所以這個對台灣來講其實是在某一些產業是有優勢的譬如說我們的半導體這個產業資安這個產業還有AI這個產業對我們台灣來講因為紅色供應鏈的影響而這些訂單勢必\n162831\t186770\t要轉向我們所以您覺得這個是我們台灣的機會危機就是轉機嗎另外一個就是比較大的問題可能會產生影響就是因為中國會被賦予高關稅我們在爭取對我們有利的關稅所以在這個情況之下中國他勢必消亡美國的東西沒有辦法去會有一些外地的現象\n187170\t215820\t会有一些外溢现象我们在防止这样的一个发生所以为什么我们这一次针对关税我们本来编了这个880亿后来调和930亿对这个关键是在后来为什么变成4100亿主要就是防止中国把他的产品因为关税的因素而外溢到台湾来这外溢有两个第一个可能来台湾洗产地第二个可能走私进到我们台湾的市场\n216500\t225202\t我們必須要防止這個走勢喔因為這個走勢對我們整個台灣的生活會產生非常大的影響而造成我們西班牙現在的波動這個劇烈波動喔我還是希望部長這邊要做好準備要做產業最堅實的後盾不要讓任何一個產業孤軍奮鬥那目前喔我接下來要問部長就是說中東這個戰火升級雖然最新的消息說已經局部\n246688\t270344\t但是能不能掉以輕心最近外電報導目前伊朗的議會已經通過封鎖荷姆茲海峽的相關提案目前正等他們的最高國家安全委員會要最終拍板荷姆茲海峽大家可以看到它是全球最關鍵的石油航道之一2025年每一季每天單日原油通過量\n275928\t295548\t高達兩千萬桶佔全球海運石油的四分之一那封鎖一旦成真這將會是繼1973年1979年1991年之後的第四次石油危機部長這些狀況你掌握目前掌握的如何\n296252\t309618\t是 報告委員我們經濟部是有成立緊急應對小組的我們已經運作了這個三天了是 所以這個緊急應變小組運作這三天有任何的方向嗎有 我們現在發現說跟我們所預測的\n313442\t325655\t每一天都在變化所以我們會有一些預測What's the case 到底是怎麼樣的那看起來現在朝著比較樂觀的方向在進行比較樂觀嗎您覺得應該是不會被封鎖布蘭特的油價的報價到今天為止\n331241\t342587\t已經降了10個百分比我不能理解你的這個樂觀是哪裡來的因為我們是千萬不能跳以輕心台灣能源依存我們對外的依存是95.77%你跟我說樂觀我們高度依賴中東\n354674\t358218\t的這個能源包括萬一在這個石油的路線中斷我們的備援機制是什麼你們有相關沙盤推演過嗎怎麼推演我們的天然氣在我們全國電力占比的四成我們的天然氣主要來的國家是卡達\n375436\t377521\t他也是要經過這個海峽他也要經過這個荷姆茲海峽如果我們油也沒辦法進來天然氣也沒辦法進來的話\n385900\t401758\t這還可以樂觀嗎報告委員 我可以說嗎好 謝謝我們天然氣進口的國家大概有14個國家其中卡達來的是25%但是我們從澳洲來的有38%所以您覺得從澳洲的38%是在我們台灣四成電力的38%\n406062\t414690\t四成電力的38%而已喔然後還有油價要高漲喔如果假設它高漲的話假設啦而且我們天然氣的儲配量根據能源署的資料只可以支應7至14天事實上我們現在整體台灣的能源方案就是非常的不確定啊所以我們現在是不是\n432544\t457332\t我們所有現在用的能源都是非常受國際影響的為什麼呢當初第一次石油危機之後我們台灣就決定蓋核一你要想喔 烏克蘭目前打仗到現在它所有的發電廠都被攻擊只有核能廠沒有被攻擊那為什麼在這關鍵的時刻我們沒有思考重啟核能呢是 這個謝謝委員\n460473\t472177\t因為這一個我們大部分的這個石化的這個能源都是進口所以我們才會再生能源才是我們最重要的但是你現在綠能在我們總發電量的幾%呢\n476138\t480940\t我們現在在告訴你說緊急應變的情況之下你綠能第一不能支應你如果被封鎖了你油你天然氣沒有辦法支應的時候你難道不用為這些產業不用為百姓來想一個備案嗎我們當然是有備案如果油輪被迫改道或延誤錯化\n500868\t518941\t化工電子原料的供應鏈全部都要受創甚至其他產業整個出口的命脈都會受影響所以我們務必要做最壞的打算最充分的準備但是在這個書面報告當中這書面報告當中完全沒有盤點完全沒有盤點說產業鏈的環節哪裡最脆弱要怎麼樣子的來協助他們\n529264\t532385\t從頭到尾 這個專案報告裡面都沒有告訴我們 這是本席所擔心的如果產生石油危機 哪些產業會首當其衝呢塑化產業 化工產業 包括我們農業都會受創為什麼 因為農藥都沒辦法做了我們的農藥 我們的肥料 包括物流業\n552512\t580149\t等等幾乎我們穿的衣服用的牙刷文具所有食衣住行都跟石化產業相關這樣子牽連甚廣的這個產業衝擊請部長務必要有所準備來回應當危機來臨時呢我們的企業怎麼辦我們的民生怎麼辦我們的產線怎麼辦因為依照現在台灣的這個局勢是非常有必要的部長我不曉得您有沒有看這個美國\n582290\t587774\tDiplomat就是外交家這個雜誌喔他在五月出了一篇專文他的標題就寫台灣為自己製造的致命弱點淘汰核能他就說在最容易發生衝突的情勢下台灣選擇放棄最穩定最難被戰爭摧毀的核能轉而依賴最容易被封鎖的天然氣跟這個\n611269\t616074\t天然氣那這樣子的能源結構等於在國安防線上就挖了一個坑欸可以很容易的癱瘓我們的經濟命脈部長怎麼看我們會參考委員提供的這個資訊\n625342\t630608\t那所以呢 所以本席在這裡繼續在呼應啦就是說不管是部長包括國發會 國發會主委可以不要動沒關係 就是說應該在國安能源的思維下要審慎面對這個核能議題了一定不是說我們不是說叫你馬上重啟\n644963\t664474\t但是立法院已經把法修好了那你們有沒有開始準備了在全球這個風險升高的此刻已經給了政府一條新的路你不能把唯一的一條最穩定的能源路徑直接封死是不是可以部長開始趕快研議呢\n665334\t682687\t我們對這個核能來講我們還是有一個三個原則嘛兩個必須嘛所以我們現在都在進行這兩個必須第一個就是核安會他必須要這個趕快的提出這個定定這個執法嘛\n683507\t690910\t然後這個台電要依法來進行安全評估嘛這個其實呢但是這三個原則已經講了幾個月了已經講了幾個月了效率在哪裡我們現在是每天都有非常有可能會有危機出現你已經講了幾個月這三個原則了那有任何的進展嗎好像也沒有看到進展所以我們希望說經濟部把效率拿出來然後把這件事情\n711418\t739707\t當然我們希望它都不要發生我們希望這些危機都不要發生但是我們不能漠視說它就保持說應該是不會發生我們要審慎以待我們希望說我們所有的政府官員一定要走出這個舒適區給國家留一些更多的選項而不是說一再的告訴我們說我們還有什麼什麼要想真的危機來的時候想這些都來不及了好不好 部長\n740640\t743173\t是 安全是我們最重視的好 謝謝我們現在請\n","txt":"謝謝主席 我想請郭部長\n委員長部長長安那我想現在大家都非常關心的除了這個能源之外呢關稅緩增90天的大限即將到期在7月8號就要到期了不曉得目前談判的進展有沒有結果呢\n報告委員現在還在這個談判進行中可是只有剩下兩個禮拜就要到期了我們目前有沒有一個基本的方向讓這些產業界可以預先開始準備呢\n我們在這個開始的時候就有一些就是它被這個豁免90天啦在這90天裡面我們不斷的在研擬整個談判的這個過程是但是不到兩週就要到期了是\n我們都開始緊張起來了我相信不只立法院緊張甚至所有的產業界所有我們台灣的這些民眾大家都開始這是一個倒數計時所以很想部長可不可以講一些方向讓我們安心一下呢報告委員我們大概盤過大概對台灣比較大的這個衝擊的影響大概就是那個傳產的六個行業\n那針對這一些可能衝擊比較大的行業我們事實上經濟部透過四個措施都在努力所以目前部長還沒有辦法告訴我們有任何具體談判的結果當然沒辦法所以這兩週還會後續有談判嗎\n是這樣子大概方向上面大概也可以跟大家報告一下具體當然可能要等院裡面他確定了以後才會跟大家來報告所以已經有具體談判結果但是先抱怨目前沒辦法告訴我們細節現在看起來就是在未來這個紅色供應鏈\n可能是美國要求對紅色供應鏈開始採取這個懲罰或者是壓制的這樣的一個方向所以這個對台灣來講其實是在某一些產業是有優勢的譬如說我們的半導體這個產業資安這個產業還有AI這個產業對我們台灣來講因為紅色供應鏈的影響而這些訂單勢必\n要轉向我們所以您覺得這個是我們台灣的機會危機就是轉機嗎另外一個就是比較大的問題可能會產生影響就是因為中國會被賦予高關稅我們在爭取對我們有利的關稅所以在這個情況之下中國他勢必消亡美國的東西沒有辦法去會有一些外地的現象\n会有一些外溢现象我们在防止这样的一个发生所以为什么我们这一次针对关税我们本来编了这个880亿后来调和930亿对这个关键是在后来为什么变成4100亿主要就是防止中国把他的产品因为关税的因素而外溢到台湾来这外溢有两个第一个可能来台湾洗产地第二个可能走私进到我们台湾的市场\n我們必須要防止這個走勢喔因為這個走勢對我們整個台灣的生活會產生非常大的影響而造成我們西班牙現在的波動這個劇烈波動喔我還是希望部長這邊要做好準備要做產業最堅實的後盾不要讓任何一個產業孤軍奮鬥那目前喔我接下來要問部長就是說中東這個戰火升級雖然最新的消息說已經局部\n但是能不能掉以輕心最近外電報導目前伊朗的議會已經通過封鎖荷姆茲海峽的相關提案目前正等他們的最高國家安全委員會要最終拍板荷姆茲海峽大家可以看到它是全球最關鍵的石油航道之一2025年每一季每天單日原油通過量\n高達兩千萬桶佔全球海運石油的四分之一那封鎖一旦成真這將會是繼1973年1979年1991年之後的第四次石油危機部長這些狀況你掌握目前掌握的如何\n是 報告委員我們經濟部是有成立緊急應對小組的我們已經運作了這個三天了是 所以這個緊急應變小組運作這三天有任何的方向嗎有 我們現在發現說跟我們所預測的\n每一天都在變化所以我們會有一些預測What's the case 到底是怎麼樣的那看起來現在朝著比較樂觀的方向在進行比較樂觀嗎您覺得應該是不會被封鎖布蘭特的油價的報價到今天為止\n已經降了10個百分比我不能理解你的這個樂觀是哪裡來的因為我們是千萬不能跳以輕心台灣能源依存我們對外的依存是95.77%你跟我說樂觀我們高度依賴中東\n的這個能源包括萬一在這個石油的路線中斷我們的備援機制是什麼你們有相關沙盤推演過嗎怎麼推演我們的天然氣在我們全國電力占比的四成我們的天然氣主要來的國家是卡達\n他也是要經過這個海峽他也要經過這個荷姆茲海峽如果我們油也沒辦法進來天然氣也沒辦法進來的話\n這還可以樂觀嗎報告委員 我可以說嗎好 謝謝我們天然氣進口的國家大概有14個國家其中卡達來的是25%但是我們從澳洲來的有38%所以您覺得從澳洲的38%是在我們台灣四成電力的38%\n四成電力的38%而已喔然後還有油價要高漲喔如果假設它高漲的話假設啦而且我們天然氣的儲配量根據能源署的資料只可以支應7至14天事實上我們現在整體台灣的能源方案就是非常的不確定啊所以我們現在是不是\n我們所有現在用的能源都是非常受國際影響的為什麼呢當初第一次石油危機之後我們台灣就決定蓋核一你要想喔 烏克蘭目前打仗到現在它所有的發電廠都被攻擊只有核能廠沒有被攻擊那為什麼在這關鍵的時刻我們沒有思考重啟核能呢是 這個謝謝委員\n因為這一個我們大部分的這個石化的這個能源都是進口所以我們才會再生能源才是我們最重要的但是你現在綠能在我們總發電量的幾%呢\n我們現在在告訴你說緊急應變的情況之下你綠能第一不能支應你如果被封鎖了你油你天然氣沒有辦法支應的時候你難道不用為這些產業不用為百姓來想一個備案嗎我們當然是有備案如果油輪被迫改道或延誤錯化\n化工電子原料的供應鏈全部都要受創甚至其他產業整個出口的命脈都會受影響所以我們務必要做最壞的打算最充分的準備但是在這個書面報告當中這書面報告當中完全沒有盤點完全沒有盤點說產業鏈的環節哪裡最脆弱要怎麼樣子的來協助他們\n從頭到尾 這個專案報告裡面都沒有告訴我們 這是本席所擔心的如果產生石油危機 哪些產業會首當其衝呢塑化產業 化工產業 包括我們農業都會受創為什麼 因為農藥都沒辦法做了我們的農藥 我們的肥料 包括物流業\n等等幾乎我們穿的衣服用的牙刷文具所有食衣住行都跟石化產業相關這樣子牽連甚廣的這個產業衝擊請部長務必要有所準備來回應當危機來臨時呢我們的企業怎麼辦我們的民生怎麼辦我們的產線怎麼辦因為依照現在台灣的這個局勢是非常有必要的部長我不曉得您有沒有看這個美國\nDiplomat就是外交家這個雜誌喔他在五月出了一篇專文他的標題就寫台灣為自己製造的致命弱點淘汰核能他就說在最容易發生衝突的情勢下台灣選擇放棄最穩定最難被戰爭摧毀的核能轉而依賴最容易被封鎖的天然氣跟這個\n天然氣那這樣子的能源結構等於在國安防線上就挖了一個坑欸可以很容易的癱瘓我們的經濟命脈部長怎麼看我們會參考委員提供的這個資訊\n那所以呢 所以本席在這裡繼續在呼應啦就是說不管是部長包括國發會 國發會主委可以不要動沒關係 就是說應該在國安能源的思維下要審慎面對這個核能議題了一定不是說我們不是說叫你馬上重啟\n但是立法院已經把法修好了那你們有沒有開始準備了在全球這個風險升高的此刻已經給了政府一條新的路你不能把唯一的一條最穩定的能源路徑直接封死是不是可以部長開始趕快研議呢\n我們對這個核能來講我們還是有一個三個原則嘛兩個必須嘛所以我們現在都在進行這兩個必須第一個就是核安會他必須要這個趕快的提出這個定定這個執法嘛\n然後這個台電要依法來進行安全評估嘛這個其實呢但是這三個原則已經講了幾個月了已經講了幾個月了效率在哪裡我們現在是每天都有非常有可能會有危機出現你已經講了幾個月這三個原則了那有任何的進展嗎好像也沒有看到進展所以我們希望說經濟部把效率拿出來然後把這件事情\n當然我們希望它都不要發生我們希望這些危機都不要發生但是我們不能漠視說它就保持說應該是不會發生我們要審慎以待我們希望說我們所有的政府官員一定要走出這個舒適區給國家留一些更多的選項而不是說一再的告訴我們說我們還有什麼什麼要想真的危機來的時候想這些都來不及了好不好 部長\n是 安全是我們最重視的好 謝謝我們現在請\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:05.866 --> 00:07.388\n謝謝主席我想請郭部長\n\n00:19.430 --> 00:37.042\n委員長部長長安那我想現在大家都非常關心的除了這個能源之外呢關稅緩增90天的大限即將到期在7月8號就要到期了不曉得目前談判的進展有沒有結果呢\n\n00:38.619 --> 00:49.753\n報告委員現在還在這個談判進行中可是只有剩下兩個禮拜就要到期了我們目前有沒有一個基本的方向讓這些產業界可以預先開始準備呢\n\n00:53.197 --> 01:01.704\n我們在這個開始的時候就有一些就是它被這個豁免90天啦在這90天裡面我們不斷的在研擬整個談判的這個過程是但是不到兩週就要到期了是\n\n01:09.970 --> 01:29.722\n我們都開始緊張起來了我相信不只立法院緊張甚至所有的產業界所有我們台灣的這些民眾大家都開始這是一個倒數計時所以很想部長可不可以講一些方向讓我們安心一下呢報告委員我們大概盤過大概對台灣比較大的這個衝擊的影響大概就是那個傳產的六個行業\n\n01:37.186 --> 01:45.770\n那針對這一些可能衝擊比較大的行業我們事實上經濟部透過四個措施都在努力所以目前部長還沒有辦法告訴我們有任何具體談判的結果當然沒辦法所以這兩週還會後續有談判嗎\n\n01:54.893 --> 02:09.803\n是這樣子大概方向上面大概也可以跟大家報告一下具體當然可能要等院裡面他確定了以後才會跟大家來報告所以已經有具體談判結果但是先抱怨目前沒辦法告訴我們細節現在看起來就是在未來這個紅色供應鏈\n\n02:15.908 --> 02:30.821\n可能是美國要求對紅色供應鏈開始採取這個懲罰或者是壓制的這樣的一個方向所以這個對台灣來講其實是在某一些產業是有優勢的譬如說我們的半導體這個產業資安這個產業還有AI這個產業對我們台灣來講因為紅色供應鏈的影響而這些訂單勢必\n\n02:42.831 --> 03:06.770\n要轉向我們所以您覺得這個是我們台灣的機會危機就是轉機嗎另外一個就是比較大的問題可能會產生影響就是因為中國會被賦予高關稅我們在爭取對我們有利的關稅所以在這個情況之下中國他勢必消亡美國的東西沒有辦法去會有一些外地的現象\n\n03:07.170 --> 03:35.820\n会有一些外溢现象我们在防止这样的一个发生所以为什么我们这一次针对关税我们本来编了这个880亿后来调和930亿对这个关键是在后来为什么变成4100亿主要就是防止中国把他的产品因为关税的因素而外溢到台湾来这外溢有两个第一个可能来台湾洗产地第二个可能走私进到我们台湾的市场\n\n03:36.500 --> 03:45.202\n我們必須要防止這個走勢喔因為這個走勢對我們整個台灣的生活會產生非常大的影響而造成我們西班牙現在的波動這個劇烈波動喔我還是希望部長這邊要做好準備要做產業最堅實的後盾不要讓任何一個產業孤軍奮鬥那目前喔我接下來要問部長就是說中東這個戰火升級雖然最新的消息說已經局部\n\n04:06.688 --> 04:30.344\n但是能不能掉以輕心最近外電報導目前伊朗的議會已經通過封鎖荷姆茲海峽的相關提案目前正等他們的最高國家安全委員會要最終拍板荷姆茲海峽大家可以看到它是全球最關鍵的石油航道之一2025年每一季每天單日原油通過量\n\n04:35.928 --> 04:55.548\n高達兩千萬桶佔全球海運石油的四分之一那封鎖一旦成真這將會是繼1973年1979年1991年之後的第四次石油危機部長這些狀況你掌握目前掌握的如何\n\n04:56.252 --> 05:09.618\n是報告委員我們經濟部是有成立緊急應對小組的我們已經運作了這個三天了是所以這個緊急應變小組運作這三天有任何的方向嗎有我們現在發現說跟我們所預測的\n\n05:13.442 --> 05:25.655\n每一天都在變化所以我們會有一些預測What'sthecase到底是怎麼樣的那看起來現在朝著比較樂觀的方向在進行比較樂觀嗎您覺得應該是不會被封鎖布蘭特的油價的報價到今天為止\n\n05:31.241 --> 05:42.587\n已經降了10個百分比我不能理解你的這個樂觀是哪裡來的因為我們是千萬不能跳以輕心台灣能源依存我們對外的依存是95.77%你跟我說樂觀我們高度依賴中東\n\n05:54.674 --> 05:58.218\n的這個能源包括萬一在這個石油的路線中斷我們的備援機制是什麼你們有相關沙盤推演過嗎怎麼推演我們的天然氣在我們全國電力占比的四成我們的天然氣主要來的國家是卡達\n\n06:15.436 --> 06:17.521\n他也是要經過這個海峽他也要經過這個荷姆茲海峽如果我們油也沒辦法進來天然氣也沒辦法進來的話\n\n06:25.900 --> 06:41.758\n這還可以樂觀嗎報告委員我可以說嗎好謝謝我們天然氣進口的國家大概有14個國家其中卡達來的是25%但是我們從澳洲來的有38%所以您覺得從澳洲的38%是在我們台灣四成電力的38%\n\n06:46.062 --> 06:54.690\n四成電力的38%而已喔然後還有油價要高漲喔如果假設它高漲的話假設啦而且我們天然氣的儲配量根據能源署的資料只可以支應7至14天事實上我們現在整體台灣的能源方案就是非常的不確定啊所以我們現在是不是\n\n07:12.544 --> 07:37.332\n我們所有現在用的能源都是非常受國際影響的為什麼呢當初第一次石油危機之後我們台灣就決定蓋核一你要想喔烏克蘭目前打仗到現在它所有的發電廠都被攻擊只有核能廠沒有被攻擊那為什麼在這關鍵的時刻我們沒有思考重啟核能呢是這個謝謝委員\n\n07:40.473 --> 07:52.177\n因為這一個我們大部分的這個石化的這個能源都是進口所以我們才會再生能源才是我們最重要的但是你現在綠能在我們總發電量的幾%呢\n\n07:56.138 --> 08:00.940\n我們現在在告訴你說緊急應變的情況之下你綠能第一不能支應你如果被封鎖了你油你天然氣沒有辦法支應的時候你難道不用為這些產業不用為百姓來想一個備案嗎我們當然是有備案如果油輪被迫改道或延誤錯化\n\n08:20.868 --> 08:38.941\n化工電子原料的供應鏈全部都要受創甚至其他產業整個出口的命脈都會受影響所以我們務必要做最壞的打算最充分的準備但是在這個書面報告當中這書面報告當中完全沒有盤點完全沒有盤點說產業鏈的環節哪裡最脆弱要怎麼樣子的來協助他們\n\n08:49.264 --> 08:52.385\n從頭到尾這個專案報告裡面都沒有告訴我們這是本席所擔心的如果產生石油危機哪些產業會首當其衝呢塑化產業化工產業包括我們農業都會受創為什麼因為農藥都沒辦法做了我們的農藥我們的肥料包括物流業\n\n09:12.512 --> 09:40.149\n等等幾乎我們穿的衣服用的牙刷文具所有食衣住行都跟石化產業相關這樣子牽連甚廣的這個產業衝擊請部長務必要有所準備來回應當危機來臨時呢我們的企業怎麼辦我們的民生怎麼辦我們的產線怎麼辦因為依照現在台灣的這個局勢是非常有必要的部長我不曉得您有沒有看這個美國\n\n09:42.290 --> 09:47.774\nDiplomat就是外交家這個雜誌喔他在五月出了一篇專文他的標題就寫台灣為自己製造的致命弱點淘汰核能他就說在最容易發生衝突的情勢下台灣選擇放棄最穩定最難被戰爭摧毀的核能轉而依賴最容易被封鎖的天然氣跟這個\n\n10:11.269 --> 10:16.074\n天然氣那這樣子的能源結構等於在國安防線上就挖了一個坑欸可以很容易的癱瘓我們的經濟命脈部長怎麼看我們會參考委員提供的這個資訊\n\n10:25.342 --> 10:30.608\n那所以呢所以本席在這裡繼續在呼應啦就是說不管是部長包括國發會國發會主委可以不要動沒關係就是說應該在國安能源的思維下要審慎面對這個核能議題了一定不是說我們不是說叫你馬上重啟\n\n10:44.963 --> 11:04.474\n但是立法院已經把法修好了那你們有沒有開始準備了在全球這個風險升高的此刻已經給了政府一條新的路你不能把唯一的一條最穩定的能源路徑直接封死是不是可以部長開始趕快研議呢\n\n11:05.334 --> 11:22.687\n我們對這個核能來講我們還是有一個三個原則嘛兩個必須嘛所以我們現在都在進行這兩個必須第一個就是核安會他必須要這個趕快的提出這個定定這個執法嘛\n\n11:23.507 --> 11:30.910\n然後這個台電要依法來進行安全評估嘛這個其實呢但是這三個原則已經講了幾個月了已經講了幾個月了效率在哪裡我們現在是每天都有非常有可能會有危機出現你已經講了幾個月這三個原則了那有任何的進展嗎好像也沒有看到進展所以我們希望說經濟部把效率拿出來然後把這件事情\n\n11:51.418 --> 12:19.707\n當然我們希望它都不要發生我們希望這些危機都不要發生但是我們不能漠視說它就保持說應該是不會發生我們要審慎以待我們希望說我們所有的政府官員一定要走出這個舒適區給國家留一些更多的選項而不是說一再的告訴我們說我們還有什麼什麼要想真的危機來的時候想這些都來不及了好不好部長\n\n12:20.640 --> 12:23.173\n是安全是我們最重視的好謝謝我們現在請\n\n","segments":[{"start":5.866,"end":7.388,"text":"謝謝主席 我想請郭部長"},{"start":19.43,"end":37.042,"text":"委員長部長長安那我想現在大家都非常關心的除了這個能源之外呢關稅緩增90天的大限即將到期在7月8號就要到期了不曉得目前談判的進展有沒有結果呢"},{"start":38.619,"end":49.753,"text":"報告委員現在還在這個談判進行中可是只有剩下兩個禮拜就要到期了我們目前有沒有一個基本的方向讓這些產業界可以預先開始準備呢"},{"start":53.197,"end":61.704,"text":"我們在這個開始的時候就有一些就是它被這個豁免90天啦在這90天裡面我們不斷的在研擬整個談判的這個過程是但是不到兩週就要到期了是"},{"start":69.97,"end":89.722,"text":"我們都開始緊張起來了我相信不只立法院緊張甚至所有的產業界所有我們台灣的這些民眾大家都開始這是一個倒數計時所以很想部長可不可以講一些方向讓我們安心一下呢報告委員我們大概盤過大概對台灣比較大的這個衝擊的影響大概就是那個傳產的六個行業"},{"start":97.186,"end":105.77,"text":"那針對這一些可能衝擊比較大的行業我們事實上經濟部透過四個措施都在努力所以目前部長還沒有辦法告訴我們有任何具體談判的結果當然沒辦法所以這兩週還會後續有談判嗎"},{"start":114.893,"end":129.803,"text":"是這樣子大概方向上面大概也可以跟大家報告一下具體當然可能要等院裡面他確定了以後才會跟大家來報告所以已經有具體談判結果但是先抱怨目前沒辦法告訴我們細節現在看起來就是在未來這個紅色供應鏈"},{"start":135.908,"end":150.821,"text":"可能是美國要求對紅色供應鏈開始採取這個懲罰或者是壓制的這樣的一個方向所以這個對台灣來講其實是在某一些產業是有優勢的譬如說我們的半導體這個產業資安這個產業還有AI這個產業對我們台灣來講因為紅色供應鏈的影響而這些訂單勢必"},{"start":162.831,"end":186.77,"text":"要轉向我們所以您覺得這個是我們台灣的機會危機就是轉機嗎另外一個就是比較大的問題可能會產生影響就是因為中國會被賦予高關稅我們在爭取對我們有利的關稅所以在這個情況之下中國他勢必消亡美國的東西沒有辦法去會有一些外地的現象"},{"start":187.17,"end":215.82,"text":"会有一些外溢现象我们在防止这样的一个发生所以为什么我们这一次针对关税我们本来编了这个880亿后来调和930亿对这个关键是在后来为什么变成4100亿主要就是防止中国把他的产品因为关税的因素而外溢到台湾来这外溢有两个第一个可能来台湾洗产地第二个可能走私进到我们台湾的市场"},{"start":216.5,"end":225.202,"text":"我們必須要防止這個走勢喔因為這個走勢對我們整個台灣的生活會產生非常大的影響而造成我們西班牙現在的波動這個劇烈波動喔我還是希望部長這邊要做好準備要做產業最堅實的後盾不要讓任何一個產業孤軍奮鬥那目前喔我接下來要問部長就是說中東這個戰火升級雖然最新的消息說已經局部"},{"start":246.688,"end":270.344,"text":"但是能不能掉以輕心最近外電報導目前伊朗的議會已經通過封鎖荷姆茲海峽的相關提案目前正等他們的最高國家安全委員會要最終拍板荷姆茲海峽大家可以看到它是全球最關鍵的石油航道之一2025年每一季每天單日原油通過量"},{"start":275.928,"end":295.548,"text":"高達兩千萬桶佔全球海運石油的四分之一那封鎖一旦成真這將會是繼1973年1979年1991年之後的第四次石油危機部長這些狀況你掌握目前掌握的如何"},{"start":296.252,"end":309.618,"text":"是 報告委員我們經濟部是有成立緊急應對小組的我們已經運作了這個三天了是 所以這個緊急應變小組運作這三天有任何的方向嗎有 我們現在發現說跟我們所預測的"},{"start":313.442,"end":325.655,"text":"每一天都在變化所以我們會有一些預測What's the case 到底是怎麼樣的那看起來現在朝著比較樂觀的方向在進行比較樂觀嗎您覺得應該是不會被封鎖布蘭特的油價的報價到今天為止"},{"start":331.241,"end":342.587,"text":"已經降了10個百分比我不能理解你的這個樂觀是哪裡來的因為我們是千萬不能跳以輕心台灣能源依存我們對外的依存是95.77%你跟我說樂觀我們高度依賴中東"},{"start":354.674,"end":358.218,"text":"的這個能源包括萬一在這個石油的路線中斷我們的備援機制是什麼你們有相關沙盤推演過嗎怎麼推演我們的天然氣在我們全國電力占比的四成我們的天然氣主要來的國家是卡達"},{"start":375.436,"end":377.521,"text":"他也是要經過這個海峽他也要經過這個荷姆茲海峽如果我們油也沒辦法進來天然氣也沒辦法進來的話"},{"start":385.9,"end":401.758,"text":"這還可以樂觀嗎報告委員 我可以說嗎好 謝謝我們天然氣進口的國家大概有14個國家其中卡達來的是25%但是我們從澳洲來的有38%所以您覺得從澳洲的38%是在我們台灣四成電力的38%"},{"start":406.062,"end":414.69,"text":"四成電力的38%而已喔然後還有油價要高漲喔如果假設它高漲的話假設啦而且我們天然氣的儲配量根據能源署的資料只可以支應7至14天事實上我們現在整體台灣的能源方案就是非常的不確定啊所以我們現在是不是"},{"start":432.544,"end":457.332,"text":"我們所有現在用的能源都是非常受國際影響的為什麼呢當初第一次石油危機之後我們台灣就決定蓋核一你要想喔 烏克蘭目前打仗到現在它所有的發電廠都被攻擊只有核能廠沒有被攻擊那為什麼在這關鍵的時刻我們沒有思考重啟核能呢是 這個謝謝委員"},{"start":460.473,"end":472.177,"text":"因為這一個我們大部分的這個石化的這個能源都是進口所以我們才會再生能源才是我們最重要的但是你現在綠能在我們總發電量的幾%呢"},{"start":476.138,"end":480.94,"text":"我們現在在告訴你說緊急應變的情況之下你綠能第一不能支應你如果被封鎖了你油你天然氣沒有辦法支應的時候你難道不用為這些產業不用為百姓來想一個備案嗎我們當然是有備案如果油輪被迫改道或延誤錯化"},{"start":500.868,"end":518.941,"text":"化工電子原料的供應鏈全部都要受創甚至其他產業整個出口的命脈都會受影響所以我們務必要做最壞的打算最充分的準備但是在這個書面報告當中這書面報告當中完全沒有盤點完全沒有盤點說產業鏈的環節哪裡最脆弱要怎麼樣子的來協助他們"},{"start":529.264,"end":532.385,"text":"從頭到尾 這個專案報告裡面都沒有告訴我們 這是本席所擔心的如果產生石油危機 哪些產業會首當其衝呢塑化產業 化工產業 包括我們農業都會受創為什麼 因為農藥都沒辦法做了我們的農藥 我們的肥料 包括物流業"},{"start":552.512,"end":580.149,"text":"等等幾乎我們穿的衣服用的牙刷文具所有食衣住行都跟石化產業相關這樣子牽連甚廣的這個產業衝擊請部長務必要有所準備來回應當危機來臨時呢我們的企業怎麼辦我們的民生怎麼辦我們的產線怎麼辦因為依照現在台灣的這個局勢是非常有必要的部長我不曉得您有沒有看這個美國"},{"start":582.29,"end":587.774,"text":"Diplomat就是外交家這個雜誌喔他在五月出了一篇專文他的標題就寫台灣為自己製造的致命弱點淘汰核能他就說在最容易發生衝突的情勢下台灣選擇放棄最穩定最難被戰爭摧毀的核能轉而依賴最容易被封鎖的天然氣跟這個"},{"start":611.269,"end":616.074,"text":"天然氣那這樣子的能源結構等於在國安防線上就挖了一個坑欸可以很容易的癱瘓我們的經濟命脈部長怎麼看我們會參考委員提供的這個資訊"},{"start":625.342,"end":630.608,"text":"那所以呢 所以本席在這裡繼續在呼應啦就是說不管是部長包括國發會 國發會主委可以不要動沒關係 就是說應該在國安能源的思維下要審慎面對這個核能議題了一定不是說我們不是說叫你馬上重啟"},{"start":644.963,"end":664.474,"text":"但是立法院已經把法修好了那你們有沒有開始準備了在全球這個風險升高的此刻已經給了政府一條新的路你不能把唯一的一條最穩定的能源路徑直接封死是不是可以部長開始趕快研議呢"},{"start":665.334,"end":682.687,"text":"我們對這個核能來講我們還是有一個三個原則嘛兩個必須嘛所以我們現在都在進行這兩個必須第一個就是核安會他必須要這個趕快的提出這個定定這個執法嘛"},{"start":683.507,"end":690.91,"text":"然後這個台電要依法來進行安全評估嘛這個其實呢但是這三個原則已經講了幾個月了已經講了幾個月了效率在哪裡我們現在是每天都有非常有可能會有危機出現你已經講了幾個月這三個原則了那有任何的進展嗎好像也沒有看到進展所以我們希望說經濟部把效率拿出來然後把這件事情"},{"start":711.418,"end":739.707,"text":"當然我們希望它都不要發生我們希望這些危機都不要發生但是我們不能漠視說它就保持說應該是不會發生我們要審慎以待我們希望說我們所有的政府官員一定要走出這個舒適區給國家留一些更多的選項而不是說一再的告訴我們說我們還有什麼什麼要想真的危機來的時候想這些都來不及了好不好 部長"},{"start":740.64,"end":743.173,"text":"是 安全是我們最重視的好 謝謝我們現在請"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":245,"blocks":[["張委員嘉郡：（9時58分）謝謝主席，我想請郭部長。"],["主席：請郭部長。"],["郭部長智輝：委員早。"],["張委員嘉郡：部長早安。現在大家都非常關心的，除了能源之外，關稅緩徵90天的大限即將在7月8號就要到期了，不曉得目前談判有沒有結果呢？"],["郭部長智輝：報告委員，現在還在談判進行中。"],["張委員嘉郡：是，可是只剩下兩個禮拜就要到期了，我們目前有沒有一個基本的方向，讓這些產業界可以預先開始準備呢？"],["郭部長智輝：我們在這個開始的時候，就是在被豁免的90天當中，不斷的在研擬整個談判的過程，我們後來發現……"],["張委員嘉郡：但是不到兩週就要到期了，我們都開始緊張起來了，我相信不只立法院緊張，產業界、所有臺灣的民眾，大家都開始緊張，真的是倒數計時，所以部長可不可以講一些方向，讓我們安心一下呢？"],["郭部長智輝：報告委員，我們大概盤過，對臺灣比較大的衝擊影響，大概就是傳產的6個行業。"],["張委員嘉郡：是。"],["郭部長智輝：針對這一些可能衝擊比較大的行業，事實上經濟部透過四個措施都在努力。"],["張委員嘉郡：所以目前，部長還沒有辦法告訴我們有任何具體談判的結果？"],["郭部長智輝：當然，現在……"],["張委員嘉郡：沒辦法，所以這兩週後續還會有談判嗎？"],["郭部長智輝：是這樣子，方向上面大概可以跟大家報告一下，具體的當然可能要等院裡面確定了以後，才會跟大家來報告。"],["張委員嘉郡：所以已經有具體談判結果，但是先報院，目前沒辦法告訴我們細節？"],["郭部長智輝：我們現在看起來就是在未來紅色供應鏈，可能是美國要求對於紅色供應鏈開始採取懲罰或者壓制的這樣一個方向，所以這個對臺灣來講其實在某一些產業是有優勢，譬如我們的半導體這個產業、資安這個產業還有AI這個產業，對臺灣來講，因為紅色供應鏈的影響，而這些訂單勢必轉來……"],["張委員嘉郡：要轉向我們。"],["郭部長智輝：會到臺灣來。"],["張委員嘉郡：所以您覺得這個是我們臺灣的機會，危機就是轉機嗎？"],["郭部長智輝：另外一個，比較大的問題，可能會產生影響的就是，因為中國會被賦予高關稅，我們在爭取對我們有利的關稅，所以在這個情況之下，中國勢必銷往美國的東西沒有辦法去……"],["張委員嘉郡：所以部長目前是覺得樂觀的？"],["郭部長智輝：會有一些外溢的現象，我們在防止這樣的發生。所以為什麼我們這一次針對關稅本來編了880億，後來調為了930億，關鍵是在這樣子，後來為什麼變成4,100億？主要就是防止中國把他的產品因為關稅的因素而外溢到臺灣來，外溢有兩個：第一個，可能來臺灣洗產地；第二個，可能走私進到臺灣的市場，我們必須要防止這個走私，因為這個走私對整個臺灣的生活會產生非常大的影響，而造成我們……"],["張委員嘉郡：部長，我現在要講，面對國際經貿情勢的這個劇烈波動，我還是希望部長這邊要做好準備。"],["郭部長智輝：是。"],["張委員嘉郡：要做產業最堅實的後盾，不要讓任何一個產業孤軍奮鬥。我接下來要問部長，中東戰火升級，雖然最新的消息說已經局部停火，但是不能掉以輕心，最近外電報導，目前伊朗議會已經通過封鎖荷姆茲海峽的相關提案，目前正等他們的最高國家安全委員會最終拍板。荷姆茲海峽，大家可以看到它是全球最關鍵的石油航道之一，2025年每一季每天單日原油通過量高達2,000萬桶，占全球海運石油的四分之一。封鎖一旦成真，這將會是繼1973年、1979年、1991年之後的第4次石油危機。部長，這些狀況你目前掌握得如何？"],["郭部長智輝：是，報告委員，經濟部是有成立緊急應變小組，我們已經運作了3天，根據……"],["張委員嘉郡：是，所以緊急應變小組運作的這3天有任何的方向嗎？"],["郭部長智輝：有，我們現在發現，每一天都在變化，所以我們會有一些預測，worst case到底是怎麼樣子，那看起來現在朝著比較樂觀的方向在進行，所以我……"],["張委員嘉郡：比較樂觀嗎？"],["郭部長智輝：我們看到的油價……"],["張委員嘉郡：您覺得應該是不會被封鎖？"],["郭部長智輝：看到布蘭特油價的報價，到今天為止已經降了將近10%。"],["張委員嘉郡：我不能理解你的這個樂觀是哪裡來的，因為我們是千萬不能掉以輕心！"],["郭部長智輝：我們是說……"],["張委員嘉郡：臺灣能源依存……"],["郭部長智輝：報告委員，我們當然有兩個不同情境的分析……"],["張委員嘉郡：我們對外的依存是95.77%……"],["郭部長智輝：是，沒有錯，但是我們從那個地方來的油大概只有20%……"],["張委員嘉郡：95.77%，你跟我說樂觀！我們高度依賴中東的這個能源……"],["郭部長智輝：沒有，我們的油20%……"],["張委員嘉郡：包括萬一這個石油的路線中斷，我們的備援機制是什麼，你們有相關沙盤推演過嗎？"],["郭部長智輝：有。"],["張委員嘉郡：怎麼推演？"],["郭部長智輝：我們對……"],["張委員嘉郡：天然氣占我們全國電力占比的四成，我們的天然氣主要來源國家是卡達，它也是要經過這個海峽！它也要經過荷姆茲海峽。如果我們的油也沒辦法進來，天然氣也沒辦法進來的話，這還可以樂觀嗎？"],["郭部長智輝：報告委員，我可以說嗎？好，謝謝。我們天然氣進口的國家大概有14個國家，其中卡達來的是25%，但是我們從澳洲來的有38%……"],["張委員嘉郡：所以您覺得從澳洲的38%……"],["郭部長智輝：那我們大概經過海峽進來的……"],["張委員嘉郡：是占我們臺灣四成電力的38%而已，然後還有油價要高漲，假設它高漲的話，假設啦！"],["郭部長智輝：我們的假設都是有評估。我們都有評估。"],["張委員嘉郡：而且我們天然氣的儲備量，根據能源署的資料只可以支應7至14天。事實上，現在臺灣整體的能源方案就是非常不確定，所以我們所有現在用的能源都是非常受國際影響的，為什麼呢？當初第一次石油危機之後，臺灣就決定蓋核一，你要想，烏克蘭打仗到現在，它所有的發電廠都被攻擊，只有核能廠沒有被攻擊，那為什麼在這關鍵的時刻，我們沒有思考重啟核能呢？"],["郭部長智輝：謝謝委員，因為我們大部分的石化能源都是進口，所以再生能源才是我們最重要的……"],["張委員嘉郡：是，但是……"],["郭部長智輝：所以請你支持再生能源……"],["張委員嘉郡：現在綠能占我們總發電量的幾percent？"],["郭部長智輝：我們現在缺的是綠能，我們在發展……"],["張委員嘉郡：幾percent？我們現在在告訴你說緊急應變的情況之下，綠能，第一是不能支應，如果被封鎖了，油、天然氣沒有辦法支應的時候，你難道不用為這些產業、不用為百姓來想一個備案嗎？"],["郭部長智輝：我們有，我們當然是有備案，我們的備案是各種推論都有。"],["張委員嘉郡：如果油輪被迫改道或延誤，塑化、化工、電子原料的供應鏈全部都要受創，甚至其他產業、整個出口的命脈都會受影響，所以我們務必要做最壞的打算、最充分的準備。但是在這個書面報告當中完全沒有盤點，完全沒有盤點說產業鏈的環節哪裡最脆弱，要怎麼樣來協助他們，從頭到尾這個專案報告裡面都沒有告訴我們，這是本席所擔心的。如果產生石油危機，哪些產業會首當其衝呢？塑化產業、化工產業，包括我們農業都會受創，為什麼？因為農藥都沒辦法做了。我們的農藥、肥料，包括物流業等等，幾乎我們穿的衣服，用的牙刷、文具，所有食衣住行都跟石化產業相關，這樣子牽連甚廣的產業衝擊，請部長務必要有所準備來回應，當危機來臨時，我們的企業怎麼辦、我們的民生怎麼辦、我們的產線怎麼辦？因為依照現在臺灣的這個局勢，是非常有必要的。","部長，我不曉得您有沒有看美國「THE DIPLOMAT」，就是外交家雜誌，它在5月出了一篇專文，標題就寫「臺灣為自己製造的致命弱點：淘汰核電」，它就說在最容易發生衝突的情勢下，臺灣選擇放棄最穩定、最難被戰爭摧毀的核能，轉而依賴最容易被封鎖的天然氣，這樣子的能源結構，等於在國安防線上挖了一個坑，可以很容易癱瘓我們的經濟命脈。部長怎麼看？"],["郭部長智輝：我們會參考委員提供的這個資訊。"],["張委員嘉郡：所以本席在這裡繼續呼籲，不管是部長，包括國發會，應該在國安能源的思維下要審慎面對核能議題，我們不是說叫你馬上重啟，但是立法院已經把法修好了，那你們有沒有開始準備？在全球風險升高的此刻，已經給了政府一條新的路，你不能把唯一的一條最穩定的能源路徑直接封死！是不是部長可以開始趕快研議呢？"],["郭部長智輝：對核能來講，我們還是有三個原則，兩個必須……"],["張委員嘉郡：對，這三個原則大家都很清楚。"],["郭部長智輝：所以我們現在都在進行這兩個必須，第一個就是核安會，他必須要趕快訂定子法，然後台電要依法進行安全評估，這是兩個必須……"],["張委員嘉郡：這個其實……"],["郭部長智輝：那三個原則就是核安要確保、核廢料可以處理、社會有共識。"],["張委員嘉郡：但是這三個原則已經講幾個月了，效率在哪裡？我們現在是每天都非常有可能會有危機出現，你已經講了幾個月這三個原則，有任何的進展嗎？好像也沒有看到進展，所以我們希望經濟部把效率拿出來，當然我們希望它都不要發生，我們希望這些危機都不要發生，但是我們不能漠視說它就保持著應該是不會發生，我們要審慎以待，我們希望所有的政府官員一定要走出舒適區，給國家留下更多的選項，而不是一再地告訴我們說你們還有什麼什麼要想，真的危機來的時候，想這些都來不及了，好不好，部長？"],["郭部長智輝：是，安全是我們最重視的。"],["張委員嘉郡：好，謝謝。"],["郭部長智輝：謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝。","現在請張啓楷委員做詢答。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":464,"meet_id":"委員會-11-3-19-17","speakers":["謝衣鳯","鄭正鈐","林岱樺","張嘉郡","張啓楷","陳亭妃","賴瑞隆","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","邱志偉","陳超明","黃國昌","楊瓊瓔","劉書彬","涂權吉","徐欣瑩","葉元之","蔡易餘","呂玉玲","邱議瑩","牛煦庭"],"page_start":397,"meetingDate":["2025-06-25"],"gazette_id":"1146401","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1146401_00009"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期經濟委員會第17次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請國家發展委員會主任委員、經濟部部長、農業部部長及中央銀行首長就「因應國際經貿情勢\n變化，如何協助我國產業面對台幣匯率及國際能源價格遽變」進行報告，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1146401_00008"}}}