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{\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 565.419, \"end\": 565.439, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:00,912 --> 00:00:03,126\n謝謝主席主席有請顧部長有請部長\n\n2\n00:00:09,815 --> 00:00:14,358\n是林委員好部長早安我要問的是一個就是最近開始因為全民開始關注就是我們在生活周遭不論是校園又或者是像這些軍事要地是不是出現了所謂有中國境外敵對勢力的人員到台灣的內部來做一些拍攝跟攝影那麼我想特別舉兩個例子這是最近的新聞\n\n3\n00:00:34,352 --> 00:00:39,214\n就是到底我們是拍攝軍事要塞還是真的只是軍事迷在這個所謂我們的機場或者是軍事營區周遭做一些所謂像飛機迷他們都會在機場旁邊來做拍攝一個是兩個案例一個是淡水的男子在淡水捷運站拍後面的軍營哀告但是因為被檢方認定不是所謂的管制區所以不起訴\n\n4\n00:01:01,204 --> 00:01:18,702\n那麼因為當時檢察官在起訴之後認為詢問了陸軍然後說這個不是所謂的軍事要塞地帶所以不起訴了另外一個當然後來被認為是所謂的烏龍那就是在我們的新竹基地\n\n5\n00:01:19,895 --> 00:01:35,844\n那認為說是有中共的原因來進行情搜來拍軍機但是當然後來是軍事迷所以其實像現在真的是在我們的周遭比如說像我們海昆號剛剛前面講的你在海策的過程當中那在所以\n\n6\n00:01:37,044 --> 00:01:59,954\n測試的過程當中一定會有軍事迷想要到現場去來做拍攝那麼現在到底我們在這樣的狀況底下國軍的營區設備基地跟軍事工程我們到底要如何來做一個保密而民眾到底哪裡是營區哪裡不是而哪裡又應該做劃界線這個部分到底我們依據的法要塞\n\n7\n00:02:01,554 --> 00:02:24,822\n寶磊所謂地帶法我先因為時間有限我一起把它質詢完之後再讓部長一起回應好了因為我們的要塞寶磊地帶法其實是很久以前就已經制定完成的而在我要求看到的國軍公告的這個幾個要塞地區管制區其實有陸軍有限制部有海軍但是事實上空軍完全沒有\n\n8\n00:02:25,262 --> 00:02:28,064\n言下之意就是我們的軍機場事實上我們有22個軍機場這22個軍機場其實都不是所謂要塞堡壘嗎那麼也就是說其實現在很多熱心民眾如果看到在這些軍機場的周邊他發現有人在那邊做攝影的時候那麼他會PO上比如說網路啊或者是提醒我們立法委員或提醒相關單位但事實上這會不會\n\n9\n00:02:49,983 --> 00:03:02,111\n其實根本一般民眾在法律的認知上跟我們現在認知上是有落差的因為沒有任何一個屬於要塞堡壘的軍機場其實如果就剛剛我所提出來這個新聞來看的話其實他們根本沒有違反相關的法規所以我就要問了這個要塞堡壘地帶跟我們現在有修的一個所謂軍事營區重要軍事設施\n\n10\n00:03:20,424 --> 00:03:37,965\n另外就是如果軍用的飛機場戰備跑道飛機基地跟軍艦是被列為軍事營區安全維護條例當中的軍事設施那麼軍艦是重要軍事設施但是軍港沒有\n\n11\n00:03:38,365 --> 00:04:07,569\n所以本席的意思就是這會變成是我們現在很多在注意國防安全的民眾看到了有人在軍機場周邊攝影或者是在軍港周邊攝影他會做一些提醒跟提示但是是不是就會變成是前面有這樣這樣的一個所謂的烏龍新聞那麼在我們有關於軍事的重要的設施或者是所謂的要塞堡壘這個界定跟界限到底是什麼\n\n12\n00:04:09,178 --> 00:04:30,996\n我想我先說明再請法律師做個詳細的說明就是要塞堡壘地帶法它公告的這個處只有22處所以顯然是不足以應驗的那本來是有打算要求要塞堡壘地帶法不過現在因為我們有一個軍事營區安全維護條例已經經過立法院三度通過所以我們現在就會主要以軍事營區安全維護條例來\n\n13\n00:04:33,478 --> 00:04:55,376\n來作為這個我們相關營區的這個機敏性的維護然後用這條法律然後來施行然後我想詳細的部分是不是請法律師好那我想要請問的比較簡單的就是像現在的這個22處當中完全沒有任何一個空軍基地在其中那麼到底這樣的一個狀況跟\n\n14\n00:04:58,078 --> 00:05:15,685\n整體來說因為我在質詢的時候我並沒有說要求一定要放進來或不要放進來但是我覺得透過我們的詢答也可以讓民眾更了解因為熱心民眾會說哇我這有人在拍攝啊那這個到底是軍事迷在拍攝而軍事迷來講他們對於在拍攝的過程當中有沒有違法他們也擔心他們的興趣被人認為有危害到國家安全那在這個部分會做修正嗎\n\n15\n00:05:29,040 --> 00:05:56,436\n是,我跟委員報告,委員剛剛講的沒有錯,因為要塞堡壘地帶要塞堡壘地帶法裡面所規定的要塞22處它都有公告,那現行確實是沒有包含軍機場那如果公布了要塞堡壘地帶的話,那會有很多的限制,也會對百姓的生活也會造成一些限制所以這是一般很謹慎,那所以說我們才在早些年有推動軍事營區安全維護條例,也非常感謝大院的委員\n\n16\n00:05:57,376 --> 00:06:24,843\n這個條例已經都已經通過了那相關的一些法規該預告的該做一些準備的現在也都在積極的這個辦理當中那未來相關的機場機場有單純的軍機場有軍民合用的機場哪一些地區會管制哪一些地區是不用管制這個都會有相關的一些公告然後還有在當地會有一些相關的排斥的一些設置那如果說已經公告的是\n\n17\n00:06:25,563 --> 00:06:53,617\n不准進行拍攝或是描繪技術等等的這一些相關的一些行為禁止的話那未來呢在軍事營區安全條例的第22條裡面也有定有相關的罰則舉個例子如果在營區的外面對著營區的裡面他如果有測量錄影攝影描繪等等的這些偵查的行為然後足身影響軍事營區安全的話那他會有一些相關的一些罰則\n\n18\n00:06:54,537 --> 00:07:06,206\n所以就是在營區外面朝營區裡面拍他還是會有罰則的但是會有一個認定的過程對不對主要就是說舉個例子就是說他拍這個整個軍機起飛他只是\n\n19\n00:07:08,447 --> 00:07:26,074\n因為軍事迷嘛,對著這個飛機起飛,他來進行拍攝,這並不會構成。但是他如果特意的去拍攝營區內機敏的這個處所的話,那從事有一個偵查的行為,足以影響到這個軍事營區的安全的話,那就會構成這樣子。\n\n20\n00:07:27,515 --> 00:07:32,681\n那我也知道剛剛從部長再到我們的這個市長都有提到就是有關於我們軍事營區安全維護法那因為這個法案我在我跟王定宇委員我其實有一起掛共題所以我非常的關注其實這個法規行政我們在一年半以前就已經三讀通過\n\n21\n00:07:46,736 --> 00:08:08,385\n那麼當然在過程當中我知道他必須要溝通然後要去詳細所研擬的配套執法是比較多的但是時間還是有點長一年半以前就在112年10月的時候是行政院新有一讀的版本然後立法院是在112年12月18號我們三讀通過然後當時是蔡英文總統在113年的1月3號公告那麼\n\n22\n00:08:16,388 --> 00:08:19,689\n如果真的就如同剛剛我們講到的軍事要塞堡壘法相關已經不符合時宜我們要用這個新法的話那我現在就要問經過了一年半那麼到底我們執法也預告期都已經滿了經過十個月了什麼時候要實行\n\n23\n00:08:32,955 --> 00:08:49,798\n因為現在面對這樣的有關於重要的軍事設施不論是被攝影或者是純粹只是軍事迷又或者是真的有人要來刺探國家重要的國安情資的時候或是軍事要塞的時候這個法規相對的重要\n\n24\n00:08:50,979 --> 00:09:05,590\n我想請問部長目前包括像行政院這裡或是國防部這裡什麼時候會實施這樣的一個法規我們跟局面溝通因為現在他們是行政院表示還有三個執法還要再公告所以我們預計八月以後\n\n25\n00:09:06,158 --> 00:09:25,439\n預計8月1號是嗎?是好那我們也希望當然經過了這麼長超過一年半以上的時間來討論的這個法規不論是法律的施行又或者是執法的配套都能夠務必符合上現在日新月異的徵搜相關的這種科技能夠真的實施就能夠用得上好謝謝委員謝謝\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n912\t3126\t謝謝主席 主席有請顧部長有請部長\n9815\t14358\t是林委員好部長早安我要問的是一個就是最近開始因為全民開始關注就是我們在生活周遭不論是校園又或者是像這些軍事要地是不是出現了所謂有中國境外敵對勢力的人員到台灣的內部來做一些拍攝跟攝影那麼我想特別舉兩個例子這是最近的新聞\n34352\t39214\t就是到底我們是拍攝軍事要塞還是真的只是軍事迷在這個所謂我們的機場或者是軍事營區周遭做一些所謂像飛機迷他們都會在機場旁邊來做拍攝一個是兩個案例一個是淡水的男子在淡水捷運站拍後面的軍營哀告但是因為被檢方認定不是所謂的管制區所以不起訴\n61204\t78702\t那麼因為當時檢察官在起訴之後認為詢問了陸軍然後說這個不是所謂的軍事要塞地帶所以不起訴了另外一個當然後來被認為是所謂的烏龍那就是在我們的新竹基地\n79895\t95844\t那認為說是有中共的原因來進行情搜來拍軍機但是當然後來是軍事迷所以其實像現在真的是在我們的周遭比如說像我們海昆號剛剛前面講的你在海策的過程當中那在所以\n97044\t119954\t測試的過程當中一定會有軍事迷想要到現場去來做拍攝那麼現在到底我們在這樣的狀況底下國軍的營區設備基地跟軍事工程我們到底要如何來做一個保密而民眾到底哪裡是營區哪裡不是而哪裡又應該做劃界線這個部分到底我們依據的法要塞\n121554\t144822\t寶磊所謂地帶法我先因為時間有限我一起把它質詢完之後再讓部長一起回應好了因為我們的要塞寶磊地帶法其實是很久以前就已經制定完成的而在我要求看到的國軍公告的這個幾個要塞地區管制區其實有陸軍有限制部有海軍但是事實上空軍完全沒有\n145262\t148064\t言下之意就是我們的軍機場事實上我們有22個軍機場這22個軍機場其實都不是所謂要塞堡壘嗎那麼也就是說其實現在很多熱心民眾如果看到在這些軍機場的周邊他發現有人在那邊做攝影的時候那麼他會PO上比如說網路啊或者是提醒我們立法委員或提醒相關單位但事實上這會不會\n169983\t182111\t其實根本一般民眾在法律的認知上跟我們現在認知上是有落差的因為沒有任何一個屬於要塞堡壘的軍機場其實如果就剛剛我所提出來這個新聞來看的話其實他們根本沒有違反相關的法規所以我就要問了這個要塞堡壘地帶跟我們現在有修的一個所謂軍事營區重要軍事設施\n200424\t217965\t另外就是如果軍用的飛機場戰備跑道飛機基地跟軍艦是被列為軍事營區安全維護條例當中的軍事設施那麼軍艦是重要軍事設施但是軍港沒有\n218365\t247569\t所以本席的意思就是這會變成是我們現在很多在注意國防安全的民眾看到了有人在軍機場周邊攝影或者是在軍港周邊攝影他會做一些提醒跟提示但是是不是就會變成是前面有這樣這樣的一個所謂的烏龍新聞那麼在我們有關於軍事的重要的設施或者是所謂的要塞堡壘這個界定跟界限到底是什麼\n249178\t270996\t我想我先說明再請法律師做個詳細的說明就是要塞堡壘地帶法它公告的這個處只有22處所以顯然是不足以應驗的那本來是有打算要求要塞堡壘地帶法不過現在因為我們有一個軍事營區安全維護條例已經經過立法院三度通過所以我們現在就會主要以軍事營區安全維護條例來\n273478\t295376\t來作為這個我們相關營區的這個機敏性的維護然後用這條法律然後來施行然後我想詳細的部分是不是請法律師好那我想要請問的比較簡單的就是像現在的這個22處當中完全沒有任何一個空軍基地在其中那麼到底這樣的一個狀況跟\n298078\t315685\t整體來說因為我在質詢的時候我並沒有說要求一定要放進來或不要放進來但是我覺得透過我們的詢答也可以讓民眾更了解因為熱心民眾會說哇 我這有人在拍攝啊那這個到底是軍事迷在拍攝而軍事迷來講他們對於在拍攝的過程當中有沒有違法他們也擔心他們的興趣被人認為有危害到國家安全那在這個部分會做修正嗎\n329040\t356436\t是,我跟委員報告,委員剛剛講的沒有錯,因為要塞堡壘地帶要塞堡壘地帶法裡面所規定的要塞22處它都有公告,那現行確實是沒有包含軍機場那如果公布了要塞堡壘地帶的話,那會有很多的限制,也會對百姓的生活也會造成一些限制所以這是一般很謹慎,那所以說我們才在早些年有推動軍事營區安全維護條例,也非常感謝大院的委員\n357376\t384843\t這個條例已經都已經通過了那相關的一些法規該預告的該做一些準備的現在也都在積極的這個辦理當中那未來相關的機場機場有單純的軍機場有軍民合用的機場哪一些地區會管制哪一些地區是不用管制這個都會有相關的一些公告然後還有在當地會有一些相關的排斥的一些設置那如果說已經公告的是\n385563\t413617\t不准進行拍攝或是描繪技術等等的這一些相關的一些行為禁止的話那未來呢在軍事營區安全條例的第22條裡面也有定有相關的罰則舉個例子如果在營區的外面對著營區的裡面他如果有測量錄影攝影描繪等等的這些偵查的行為然後足身影響軍事營區安全的話那他會有一些相關的一些罰則\n414537\t426206\t所以就是在營區外面朝營區裡面拍他還是會有罰則的但是會有一個認定的過程對不對主要就是說舉個例子就是說他拍這個整個軍機起飛他只是\n428447\t446074\t因為軍事迷嘛,對著這個飛機起飛,他來進行拍攝,這並不會構成。但是他如果特意的去拍攝營區內機敏的這個處所的話,那從事有一個偵查的行為,足以影響到這個軍事營區的安全的話,那就會構成這樣子。\n447515\t452681\t那我也知道剛剛從部長再到我們的這個市長都有提到就是有關於我們軍事營區安全維護法那因為這個法案我在我跟王定宇委員我其實有一起掛共題所以我非常的關注其實這個法規行政我們在一年半以前就已經三讀通過\n466736\t488385\t那麼當然在過程當中我知道他必須要溝通然後要去詳細所研擬的配套執法是比較多的但是時間還是有點長一年半以前就在112年10月的時候是行政院新有一讀的版本然後立法院是在112年12月18號我們三讀通過然後當時是蔡英文總統在113年的1月3號公告那麼\n496388\t499689\t如果真的就如同剛剛我們講到的軍事要塞堡壘法相關已經不符合時宜我們要用這個新法的話那我現在就要問經過了一年半那麼到底我們執法也預告期都已經滿了經過十個月了什麼時候要實行\n512955\t529798\t因為現在面對這樣的有關於重要的軍事設施不論是被攝影或者是純粹只是軍事迷又或者是真的有人要來刺探國家重要的國安情資的時候或是軍事要塞的時候這個法規相對的重要\n530979\t545590\t我想請問部長目前包括像行政院這裡或是國防部這裡什麼時候會實施這樣的一個法規我們跟局面溝通因為現在他們是行政院表示還有三個執法還要再公告所以我們預計八月以後\n546158\t565439\t預計8月1號是嗎?是好 那我們也希望當然經過了這麼長超過一年半以上的時間來討論的這個法規不論是法律的施行又或者是執法的配套都能夠務必符合上現在日新月異的徵搜相關的這種科技能夠真的實施就能夠用得上好 謝謝委員謝謝\n","txt":"謝謝主席 主席有請顧部長有請部長\n是林委員好部長早安我要問的是一個就是最近開始因為全民開始關注就是我們在生活周遭不論是校園又或者是像這些軍事要地是不是出現了所謂有中國境外敵對勢力的人員到台灣的內部來做一些拍攝跟攝影那麼我想特別舉兩個例子這是最近的新聞\n就是到底我們是拍攝軍事要塞還是真的只是軍事迷在這個所謂我們的機場或者是軍事營區周遭做一些所謂像飛機迷他們都會在機場旁邊來做拍攝一個是兩個案例一個是淡水的男子在淡水捷運站拍後面的軍營哀告但是因為被檢方認定不是所謂的管制區所以不起訴\n那麼因為當時檢察官在起訴之後認為詢問了陸軍然後說這個不是所謂的軍事要塞地帶所以不起訴了另外一個當然後來被認為是所謂的烏龍那就是在我們的新竹基地\n那認為說是有中共的原因來進行情搜來拍軍機但是當然後來是軍事迷所以其實像現在真的是在我們的周遭比如說像我們海昆號剛剛前面講的你在海策的過程當中那在所以\n測試的過程當中一定會有軍事迷想要到現場去來做拍攝那麼現在到底我們在這樣的狀況底下國軍的營區設備基地跟軍事工程我們到底要如何來做一個保密而民眾到底哪裡是營區哪裡不是而哪裡又應該做劃界線這個部分到底我們依據的法要塞\n寶磊所謂地帶法我先因為時間有限我一起把它質詢完之後再讓部長一起回應好了因為我們的要塞寶磊地帶法其實是很久以前就已經制定完成的而在我要求看到的國軍公告的這個幾個要塞地區管制區其實有陸軍有限制部有海軍但是事實上空軍完全沒有\n言下之意就是我們的軍機場事實上我們有22個軍機場這22個軍機場其實都不是所謂要塞堡壘嗎那麼也就是說其實現在很多熱心民眾如果看到在這些軍機場的周邊他發現有人在那邊做攝影的時候那麼他會PO上比如說網路啊或者是提醒我們立法委員或提醒相關單位但事實上這會不會\n其實根本一般民眾在法律的認知上跟我們現在認知上是有落差的因為沒有任何一個屬於要塞堡壘的軍機場其實如果就剛剛我所提出來這個新聞來看的話其實他們根本沒有違反相關的法規所以我就要問了這個要塞堡壘地帶跟我們現在有修的一個所謂軍事營區重要軍事設施\n另外就是如果軍用的飛機場戰備跑道飛機基地跟軍艦是被列為軍事營區安全維護條例當中的軍事設施那麼軍艦是重要軍事設施但是軍港沒有\n所以本席的意思就是這會變成是我們現在很多在注意國防安全的民眾看到了有人在軍機場周邊攝影或者是在軍港周邊攝影他會做一些提醒跟提示但是是不是就會變成是前面有這樣這樣的一個所謂的烏龍新聞那麼在我們有關於軍事的重要的設施或者是所謂的要塞堡壘這個界定跟界限到底是什麼\n我想我先說明再請法律師做個詳細的說明就是要塞堡壘地帶法它公告的這個處只有22處所以顯然是不足以應驗的那本來是有打算要求要塞堡壘地帶法不過現在因為我們有一個軍事營區安全維護條例已經經過立法院三度通過所以我們現在就會主要以軍事營區安全維護條例來\n來作為這個我們相關營區的這個機敏性的維護然後用這條法律然後來施行然後我想詳細的部分是不是請法律師好那我想要請問的比較簡單的就是像現在的這個22處當中完全沒有任何一個空軍基地在其中那麼到底這樣的一個狀況跟\n整體來說因為我在質詢的時候我並沒有說要求一定要放進來或不要放進來但是我覺得透過我們的詢答也可以讓民眾更了解因為熱心民眾會說哇 我這有人在拍攝啊那這個到底是軍事迷在拍攝而軍事迷來講他們對於在拍攝的過程當中有沒有違法他們也擔心他們的興趣被人認為有危害到國家安全那在這個部分會做修正嗎\n是,我跟委員報告,委員剛剛講的沒有錯,因為要塞堡壘地帶要塞堡壘地帶法裡面所規定的要塞22處它都有公告,那現行確實是沒有包含軍機場那如果公布了要塞堡壘地帶的話,那會有很多的限制,也會對百姓的生活也會造成一些限制所以這是一般很謹慎,那所以說我們才在早些年有推動軍事營區安全維護條例,也非常感謝大院的委員\n這個條例已經都已經通過了那相關的一些法規該預告的該做一些準備的現在也都在積極的這個辦理當中那未來相關的機場機場有單純的軍機場有軍民合用的機場哪一些地區會管制哪一些地區是不用管制這個都會有相關的一些公告然後還有在當地會有一些相關的排斥的一些設置那如果說已經公告的是\n不准進行拍攝或是描繪技術等等的這一些相關的一些行為禁止的話那未來呢在軍事營區安全條例的第22條裡面也有定有相關的罰則舉個例子如果在營區的外面對著營區的裡面他如果有測量錄影攝影描繪等等的這些偵查的行為然後足身影響軍事營區安全的話那他會有一些相關的一些罰則\n所以就是在營區外面朝營區裡面拍他還是會有罰則的但是會有一個認定的過程對不對主要就是說舉個例子就是說他拍這個整個軍機起飛他只是\n因為軍事迷嘛,對著這個飛機起飛,他來進行拍攝,這並不會構成。但是他如果特意的去拍攝營區內機敏的這個處所的話,那從事有一個偵查的行為,足以影響到這個軍事營區的安全的話,那就會構成這樣子。\n那我也知道剛剛從部長再到我們的這個市長都有提到就是有關於我們軍事營區安全維護法那因為這個法案我在我跟王定宇委員我其實有一起掛共題所以我非常的關注其實這個法規行政我們在一年半以前就已經三讀通過\n那麼當然在過程當中我知道他必須要溝通然後要去詳細所研擬的配套執法是比較多的但是時間還是有點長一年半以前就在112年10月的時候是行政院新有一讀的版本然後立法院是在112年12月18號我們三讀通過然後當時是蔡英文總統在113年的1月3號公告那麼\n如果真的就如同剛剛我們講到的軍事要塞堡壘法相關已經不符合時宜我們要用這個新法的話那我現在就要問經過了一年半那麼到底我們執法也預告期都已經滿了經過十個月了什麼時候要實行\n因為現在面對這樣的有關於重要的軍事設施不論是被攝影或者是純粹只是軍事迷又或者是真的有人要來刺探國家重要的國安情資的時候或是軍事要塞的時候這個法規相對的重要\n我想請問部長目前包括像行政院這裡或是國防部這裡什麼時候會實施這樣的一個法規我們跟局面溝通因為現在他們是行政院表示還有三個執法還要再公告所以我們預計八月以後\n預計8月1號是嗎?是好 那我們也希望當然經過了這麼長超過一年半以上的時間來討論的這個法規不論是法律的施行又或者是執法的配套都能夠務必符合上現在日新月異的徵搜相關的這種科技能夠真的實施就能夠用得上好 謝謝委員謝謝\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.912 --> 00:03.126\n謝謝主席主席有請顧部長有請部長\n\n00:09.815 --> 00:14.358\n是林委員好部長早安我要問的是一個就是最近開始因為全民開始關注就是我們在生活周遭不論是校園又或者是像這些軍事要地是不是出現了所謂有中國境外敵對勢力的人員到台灣的內部來做一些拍攝跟攝影那麼我想特別舉兩個例子這是最近的新聞\n\n00:34.352 --> 00:39.214\n就是到底我們是拍攝軍事要塞還是真的只是軍事迷在這個所謂我們的機場或者是軍事營區周遭做一些所謂像飛機迷他們都會在機場旁邊來做拍攝一個是兩個案例一個是淡水的男子在淡水捷運站拍後面的軍營哀告但是因為被檢方認定不是所謂的管制區所以不起訴\n\n01:01.204 --> 01:18.702\n那麼因為當時檢察官在起訴之後認為詢問了陸軍然後說這個不是所謂的軍事要塞地帶所以不起訴了另外一個當然後來被認為是所謂的烏龍那就是在我們的新竹基地\n\n01:19.895 --> 01:35.844\n那認為說是有中共的原因來進行情搜來拍軍機但是當然後來是軍事迷所以其實像現在真的是在我們的周遭比如說像我們海昆號剛剛前面講的你在海策的過程當中那在所以\n\n01:37.044 --> 01:59.954\n測試的過程當中一定會有軍事迷想要到現場去來做拍攝那麼現在到底我們在這樣的狀況底下國軍的營區設備基地跟軍事工程我們到底要如何來做一個保密而民眾到底哪裡是營區哪裡不是而哪裡又應該做劃界線這個部分到底我們依據的法要塞\n\n02:01.554 --> 02:24.822\n寶磊所謂地帶法我先因為時間有限我一起把它質詢完之後再讓部長一起回應好了因為我們的要塞寶磊地帶法其實是很久以前就已經制定完成的而在我要求看到的國軍公告的這個幾個要塞地區管制區其實有陸軍有限制部有海軍但是事實上空軍完全沒有\n\n02:25.262 --> 02:28.064\n言下之意就是我們的軍機場事實上我們有22個軍機場這22個軍機場其實都不是所謂要塞堡壘嗎那麼也就是說其實現在很多熱心民眾如果看到在這些軍機場的周邊他發現有人在那邊做攝影的時候那麼他會PO上比如說網路啊或者是提醒我們立法委員或提醒相關單位但事實上這會不會\n\n02:49.983 --> 03:02.111\n其實根本一般民眾在法律的認知上跟我們現在認知上是有落差的因為沒有任何一個屬於要塞堡壘的軍機場其實如果就剛剛我所提出來這個新聞來看的話其實他們根本沒有違反相關的法規所以我就要問了這個要塞堡壘地帶跟我們現在有修的一個所謂軍事營區重要軍事設施\n\n03:20.424 --> 03:37.965\n另外就是如果軍用的飛機場戰備跑道飛機基地跟軍艦是被列為軍事營區安全維護條例當中的軍事設施那麼軍艦是重要軍事設施但是軍港沒有\n\n03:38.365 --> 04:07.569\n所以本席的意思就是這會變成是我們現在很多在注意國防安全的民眾看到了有人在軍機場周邊攝影或者是在軍港周邊攝影他會做一些提醒跟提示但是是不是就會變成是前面有這樣這樣的一個所謂的烏龍新聞那麼在我們有關於軍事的重要的設施或者是所謂的要塞堡壘這個界定跟界限到底是什麼\n\n04:09.178 --> 04:30.996\n我想我先說明再請法律師做個詳細的說明就是要塞堡壘地帶法它公告的這個處只有22處所以顯然是不足以應驗的那本來是有打算要求要塞堡壘地帶法不過現在因為我們有一個軍事營區安全維護條例已經經過立法院三度通過所以我們現在就會主要以軍事營區安全維護條例來\n\n04:33.478 --> 04:55.376\n來作為這個我們相關營區的這個機敏性的維護然後用這條法律然後來施行然後我想詳細的部分是不是請法律師好那我想要請問的比較簡單的就是像現在的這個22處當中完全沒有任何一個空軍基地在其中那麼到底這樣的一個狀況跟\n\n04:58.078 --> 05:15.685\n整體來說因為我在質詢的時候我並沒有說要求一定要放進來或不要放進來但是我覺得透過我們的詢答也可以讓民眾更了解因為熱心民眾會說哇我這有人在拍攝啊那這個到底是軍事迷在拍攝而軍事迷來講他們對於在拍攝的過程當中有沒有違法他們也擔心他們的興趣被人認為有危害到國家安全那在這個部分會做修正嗎\n\n05:29.040 --> 05:56.436\n是,我跟委員報告,委員剛剛講的沒有錯,因為要塞堡壘地帶要塞堡壘地帶法裡面所規定的要塞22處它都有公告,那現行確實是沒有包含軍機場那如果公布了要塞堡壘地帶的話,那會有很多的限制,也會對百姓的生活也會造成一些限制所以這是一般很謹慎,那所以說我們才在早些年有推動軍事營區安全維護條例,也非常感謝大院的委員\n\n05:57.376 --> 06:24.843\n這個條例已經都已經通過了那相關的一些法規該預告的該做一些準備的現在也都在積極的這個辦理當中那未來相關的機場機場有單純的軍機場有軍民合用的機場哪一些地區會管制哪一些地區是不用管制這個都會有相關的一些公告然後還有在當地會有一些相關的排斥的一些設置那如果說已經公告的是\n\n06:25.563 --> 06:53.617\n不准進行拍攝或是描繪技術等等的這一些相關的一些行為禁止的話那未來呢在軍事營區安全條例的第22條裡面也有定有相關的罰則舉個例子如果在營區的外面對著營區的裡面他如果有測量錄影攝影描繪等等的這些偵查的行為然後足身影響軍事營區安全的話那他會有一些相關的一些罰則\n\n06:54.537 --> 07:06.206\n所以就是在營區外面朝營區裡面拍他還是會有罰則的但是會有一個認定的過程對不對主要就是說舉個例子就是說他拍這個整個軍機起飛他只是\n\n07:08.447 --> 07:26.074\n因為軍事迷嘛,對著這個飛機起飛,他來進行拍攝,這並不會構成。但是他如果特意的去拍攝營區內機敏的這個處所的話,那從事有一個偵查的行為,足以影響到這個軍事營區的安全的話,那就會構成這樣子。\n\n07:27.515 --> 07:32.681\n那我也知道剛剛從部長再到我們的這個市長都有提到就是有關於我們軍事營區安全維護法那因為這個法案我在我跟王定宇委員我其實有一起掛共題所以我非常的關注其實這個法規行政我們在一年半以前就已經三讀通過\n\n07:46.736 --> 08:08.385\n那麼當然在過程當中我知道他必須要溝通然後要去詳細所研擬的配套執法是比較多的但是時間還是有點長一年半以前就在112年10月的時候是行政院新有一讀的版本然後立法院是在112年12月18號我們三讀通過然後當時是蔡英文總統在113年的1月3號公告那麼\n\n08:16.388 --> 08:19.689\n如果真的就如同剛剛我們講到的軍事要塞堡壘法相關已經不符合時宜我們要用這個新法的話那我現在就要問經過了一年半那麼到底我們執法也預告期都已經滿了經過十個月了什麼時候要實行\n\n08:32.955 --> 08:49.798\n因為現在面對這樣的有關於重要的軍事設施不論是被攝影或者是純粹只是軍事迷又或者是真的有人要來刺探國家重要的國安情資的時候或是軍事要塞的時候這個法規相對的重要\n\n08:50.979 --> 09:05.590\n我想請問部長目前包括像行政院這裡或是國防部這裡什麼時候會實施這樣的一個法規我們跟局面溝通因為現在他們是行政院表示還有三個執法還要再公告所以我們預計八月以後\n\n09:06.158 --> 09:25.439\n預計8月1號是嗎?是好那我們也希望當然經過了這麼長超過一年半以上的時間來討論的這個法規不論是法律的施行又或者是執法的配套都能夠務必符合上現在日新月異的徵搜相關的這種科技能夠真的實施就能夠用得上好謝謝委員謝謝\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.912,"end":3.126,"text":"謝謝主席 主席有請顧部長有請部長"},{"start":9.815,"end":14.358,"text":"是林委員好部長早安我要問的是一個就是最近開始因為全民開始關注就是我們在生活周遭不論是校園又或者是像這些軍事要地是不是出現了所謂有中國境外敵對勢力的人員到台灣的內部來做一些拍攝跟攝影那麼我想特別舉兩個例子這是最近的新聞"},{"start":34.352,"end":39.214,"text":"就是到底我們是拍攝軍事要塞還是真的只是軍事迷在這個所謂我們的機場或者是軍事營區周遭做一些所謂像飛機迷他們都會在機場旁邊來做拍攝一個是兩個案例一個是淡水的男子在淡水捷運站拍後面的軍營哀告但是因為被檢方認定不是所謂的管制區所以不起訴"},{"start":61.204,"end":78.702,"text":"那麼因為當時檢察官在起訴之後認為詢問了陸軍然後說這個不是所謂的軍事要塞地帶所以不起訴了另外一個當然後來被認為是所謂的烏龍那就是在我們的新竹基地"},{"start":79.895,"end":95.844,"text":"那認為說是有中共的原因來進行情搜來拍軍機但是當然後來是軍事迷所以其實像現在真的是在我們的周遭比如說像我們海昆號剛剛前面講的你在海策的過程當中那在所以"},{"start":97.044,"end":119.954,"text":"測試的過程當中一定會有軍事迷想要到現場去來做拍攝那麼現在到底我們在這樣的狀況底下國軍的營區設備基地跟軍事工程我們到底要如何來做一個保密而民眾到底哪裡是營區哪裡不是而哪裡又應該做劃界線這個部分到底我們依據的法要塞"},{"start":121.554,"end":144.822,"text":"寶磊所謂地帶法我先因為時間有限我一起把它質詢完之後再讓部長一起回應好了因為我們的要塞寶磊地帶法其實是很久以前就已經制定完成的而在我要求看到的國軍公告的這個幾個要塞地區管制區其實有陸軍有限制部有海軍但是事實上空軍完全沒有"},{"start":145.262,"end":148.064,"text":"言下之意就是我們的軍機場事實上我們有22個軍機場這22個軍機場其實都不是所謂要塞堡壘嗎那麼也就是說其實現在很多熱心民眾如果看到在這些軍機場的周邊他發現有人在那邊做攝影的時候那麼他會PO上比如說網路啊或者是提醒我們立法委員或提醒相關單位但事實上這會不會"},{"start":169.983,"end":182.111,"text":"其實根本一般民眾在法律的認知上跟我們現在認知上是有落差的因為沒有任何一個屬於要塞堡壘的軍機場其實如果就剛剛我所提出來這個新聞來看的話其實他們根本沒有違反相關的法規所以我就要問了這個要塞堡壘地帶跟我們現在有修的一個所謂軍事營區重要軍事設施"},{"start":200.424,"end":217.965,"text":"另外就是如果軍用的飛機場戰備跑道飛機基地跟軍艦是被列為軍事營區安全維護條例當中的軍事設施那麼軍艦是重要軍事設施但是軍港沒有"},{"start":218.365,"end":247.569,"text":"所以本席的意思就是這會變成是我們現在很多在注意國防安全的民眾看到了有人在軍機場周邊攝影或者是在軍港周邊攝影他會做一些提醒跟提示但是是不是就會變成是前面有這樣這樣的一個所謂的烏龍新聞那麼在我們有關於軍事的重要的設施或者是所謂的要塞堡壘這個界定跟界限到底是什麼"},{"start":249.178,"end":270.996,"text":"我想我先說明再請法律師做個詳細的說明就是要塞堡壘地帶法它公告的這個處只有22處所以顯然是不足以應驗的那本來是有打算要求要塞堡壘地帶法不過現在因為我們有一個軍事營區安全維護條例已經經過立法院三度通過所以我們現在就會主要以軍事營區安全維護條例來"},{"start":273.478,"end":295.376,"text":"來作為這個我們相關營區的這個機敏性的維護然後用這條法律然後來施行然後我想詳細的部分是不是請法律師好那我想要請問的比較簡單的就是像現在的這個22處當中完全沒有任何一個空軍基地在其中那麼到底這樣的一個狀況跟"},{"start":298.078,"end":315.685,"text":"整體來說因為我在質詢的時候我並沒有說要求一定要放進來或不要放進來但是我覺得透過我們的詢答也可以讓民眾更了解因為熱心民眾會說哇 我這有人在拍攝啊那這個到底是軍事迷在拍攝而軍事迷來講他們對於在拍攝的過程當中有沒有違法他們也擔心他們的興趣被人認為有危害到國家安全那在這個部分會做修正嗎"},{"start":329.04,"end":356.436,"text":"是,我跟委員報告,委員剛剛講的沒有錯,因為要塞堡壘地帶要塞堡壘地帶法裡面所規定的要塞22處它都有公告,那現行確實是沒有包含軍機場那如果公布了要塞堡壘地帶的話,那會有很多的限制,也會對百姓的生活也會造成一些限制所以這是一般很謹慎,那所以說我們才在早些年有推動軍事營區安全維護條例,也非常感謝大院的委員"},{"start":357.376,"end":384.843,"text":"這個條例已經都已經通過了那相關的一些法規該預告的該做一些準備的現在也都在積極的這個辦理當中那未來相關的機場機場有單純的軍機場有軍民合用的機場哪一些地區會管制哪一些地區是不用管制這個都會有相關的一些公告然後還有在當地會有一些相關的排斥的一些設置那如果說已經公告的是"},{"start":385.563,"end":413.617,"text":"不准進行拍攝或是描繪技術等等的這一些相關的一些行為禁止的話那未來呢在軍事營區安全條例的第22條裡面也有定有相關的罰則舉個例子如果在營區的外面對著營區的裡面他如果有測量錄影攝影描繪等等的這些偵查的行為然後足身影響軍事營區安全的話那他會有一些相關的一些罰則"},{"start":414.537,"end":426.206,"text":"所以就是在營區外面朝營區裡面拍他還是會有罰則的但是會有一個認定的過程對不對主要就是說舉個例子就是說他拍這個整個軍機起飛他只是"},{"start":428.447,"end":446.074,"text":"因為軍事迷嘛,對著這個飛機起飛,他來進行拍攝,這並不會構成。但是他如果特意的去拍攝營區內機敏的這個處所的話,那從事有一個偵查的行為,足以影響到這個軍事營區的安全的話,那就會構成這樣子。"},{"start":447.515,"end":452.681,"text":"那我也知道剛剛從部長再到我們的這個市長都有提到就是有關於我們軍事營區安全維護法那因為這個法案我在我跟王定宇委員我其實有一起掛共題所以我非常的關注其實這個法規行政我們在一年半以前就已經三讀通過"},{"start":466.736,"end":488.385,"text":"那麼當然在過程當中我知道他必須要溝通然後要去詳細所研擬的配套執法是比較多的但是時間還是有點長一年半以前就在112年10月的時候是行政院新有一讀的版本然後立法院是在112年12月18號我們三讀通過然後當時是蔡英文總統在113年的1月3號公告那麼"},{"start":496.388,"end":499.689,"text":"如果真的就如同剛剛我們講到的軍事要塞堡壘法相關已經不符合時宜我們要用這個新法的話那我現在就要問經過了一年半那麼到底我們執法也預告期都已經滿了經過十個月了什麼時候要實行"},{"start":512.955,"end":529.798,"text":"因為現在面對這樣的有關於重要的軍事設施不論是被攝影或者是純粹只是軍事迷又或者是真的有人要來刺探國家重要的國安情資的時候或是軍事要塞的時候這個法規相對的重要"},{"start":530.979,"end":545.59,"text":"我想請問部長目前包括像行政院這裡或是國防部這裡什麼時候會實施這樣的一個法規我們跟局面溝通因為現在他們是行政院表示還有三個執法還要再公告所以我們預計八月以後"},{"start":546.158,"end":565.439,"text":"預計8月1號是嗎?是好 那我們也希望當然經過了這麼長超過一年半以上的時間來討論的這個法規不論是法律的施行又或者是執法的配套都能夠務必符合上現在日新月異的徵搜相關的這種科技能夠真的實施就能夠用得上好 謝謝委員謝謝"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":238,"blocks":[["林委員楚茵：（10時4分）謝謝主席，有請顧部長。"],["主席：有請部長。"],["顧部長立雄：林委員好。"],["林委員楚茵：部長早安。我要問的是，最近因為全民開始關注在我們生活周遭，不論是校園，又或者是像這些軍事要地，是不是有出現所謂中國、境外敵對勢力的人員，到臺灣內部來拍攝跟攝影？我特別舉二個例子，這是最近的新聞，就是到底是拍攝軍事要塞，還是只是軍事迷在機場或者是軍事營區周遭，做一些像是飛機迷會在機場旁邊拍攝的行為？","舉二個案例，一個是男子在淡水捷運站拍後面的軍營挨告，但是被檢方認定不是所謂的管制區，所以不起訴，因為當時檢察官詢問了陸軍，說這個不是軍事要塞地帶，所以不起訴了；另外一個，當然後來被認為是烏龍，那就是在新竹基地說有中共的人員來進行情蒐拍軍機，但其實是軍事迷。所以像現在，真的是在我們周遭……譬如說，像海鯤號剛剛前面講到在海測的過程當中，一定會有軍事迷想要到現場拍攝，在這樣的狀況下，國軍的營區、設備基地跟軍事工程，到底要如何來保密？對民眾而言，到底哪裡是營區而哪裡不是，而哪裡又應該畫界線？","因為我時間有限，我先一起質詢完之後，再讓部長一起回應。因為要塞堡壘地帶法其實是很久以前就已經制定完成，而在我要求看到的國軍公告的幾個要塞地區、管制區，其實有陸軍、憲指部、海軍，但是事實上空軍完全沒有，言下之意，就是我們有22個軍機場，而這22個軍機場都不是所謂要塞堡壘，也就是說，現在很多熱心民眾如果發現有人在這些軍機場周邊攝影的時候，他會po上網路或者是提醒我們立法委員或相關單位，但是會不會根本上一般民眾的法律認知，跟我們現在認知上是有落差的？因為沒有任何一個屬於要塞堡壘的軍機場，如果就剛剛我所提出來的新聞來看，他們根本沒有違反相關法規。所以我就要問了，要塞堡壘地帶跟現在有修的軍事營區重要軍事設施，這兩者之間到底怎麼樣來進行執法？","另外，如果軍用的飛機場、戰備跑道、飛機基地跟軍艦是被列為軍事營區安全維護條例當中的軍事設施，那麼軍艦是重要軍事設施，但是軍港沒有，本席的意思就是，這會變成現在很多注意國防安全的民眾，看到有人在軍機場周邊攝影或者是在軍港周邊攝影，他會做一些提醒跟提示，但是不是就會變成前面說的烏龍新聞？在有關於軍事的重要設施，或者是所謂的要塞堡壘，這個界定跟界限到底是什麼？"],["顧部長立雄：我想我先說明，再請法律司做個詳細的說明。就是說要塞堡壘地帶法公告的只有22處，所以顯然是不足以因應，本來是有打算要修要塞堡壘地帶法，不過現在因為我們已經有軍事營區安全維護條例經過立法院三讀通過，所以現在就會主要以軍事營區安全維護條例作為相關營區的機敏性維護，用這條法律來施行。詳細的部分是不是請法律司做說明？"],["林委員楚茵：那我想要問比較簡單的，就是現在的22處當中，完全沒有任何一個空軍基地在其中，整體來說，因為我在質詢的時候，並沒有要求一定要放進來或不要放進來，但是我覺得透過我們的詢答，也可以讓民眾更了解，因為熱心民眾會說：哇！有人在拍攝！那這個可能是軍事迷在拍攝；對軍事迷來講，他們擔心拍攝的過程有沒有違法、也擔心興趣被人認為危害到國家安全，在這個部分會做修正嗎？"],["沈司長世偉：我跟委員報告，委員剛剛講的沒有錯，因為要塞堡壘地帶法裡面所規定的要塞22處，它都有公告，現行確實是沒有包含軍機場。"],["林委員楚茵：是。"],["沈司長世偉：如果公布是要塞堡壘地帶，那會有很多的限制，也會對百姓的生活造成一些限制，所以這個一般是很謹慎，所以我們才在早些年推動軍事營區安全維護條例，也非常感謝大院的委員，這個條例都已經通過了，相關的一些法規該預告的、該做一些準備的，現在也都在積極的辦理當中。","未來相關的機場，機場有單純的軍機場、有軍民合用的機場，哪一些地區會管制，哪一些地區是不用管制，這個都會有相關的公告，然後還會在當地有一些相關的牌示設置，如果已經公告不准進行拍攝或是描繪、記述等等相關行為的話，未來在軍事營區安全維護條例第二十二條也訂有相關罰則，舉個例，如果在營區外面對著營區裡面，有測量、錄影、攝影、描繪等等的這些偵察行為，足生影響軍事營區安全的話，那它會有相關的一些罰則。"],["林委員楚茵：所以就是在營區外面朝營區裡面拍，還是會有罰則，但是會有一個認定的過程，對不對？"],["沈司長世偉：是。"],["顧部長立雄：主要就是說，舉個例子，就是他拍整個軍機起飛，因為是軍事迷，對著軍事飛機起飛進行拍攝，這並不會構成。"],["林委員楚茵：並不會構成。"],["顧部長立雄：但是他如果特意去拍攝營區內機敏處所，從事偵察的行為，足以影響到軍事營區的安全，那就會構成。"],["林委員楚茵：剛剛從部長到司長都有提到，就是有關於軍事營區安全維護條例，因為這個法案是我跟王定宇委員一起掛共提，所以我非常地關注，其實這個法規在1年半以前就已經三讀通過，當然在過程當中，我知道必須要溝通，然後要詳細研擬的配套子法也比較多，但是時間還是有點長，1年半以前，就在112年10月，行政院先有一讀的版本，然後立法院是在112年12月18日三讀通過，當時是蔡英文總統在113年1月3日公告，如果真的如同剛剛我們講到的，軍事要塞堡壘法相關部分已經不符合時宜，要用這個新法的話，那我現在就要問，經過了1年半，子法預告期也都已經滿了，經過10個月了，到底什麼時候要施行？","因為現在面對重要的軍事設施，不論是被攝影或者只是純粹軍事迷，又或者是真的有人要來刺探國家重要的國安情資或是軍事要塞的時候，這個法規相對的重要，我想請問部長，目前包括行政院或國防部，什麼時候會實施這樣的一個法規？"],["顧部長立雄：我們跟行政院溝通，因為行政院表示還有3個子法要公告，所以我們預計8月1日。"],["林委員楚茵：預計8月1日是嗎？好，我們也希望經過了這麼長、超過1年半以上的時間來討論的這個法規，不論是法律的施行，又或者是子法的配套，都務必能符合上現在日新月異的偵蒐相關科技，能夠真的實施，就能夠用得上。"],["顧部長立雄：好，謝謝委員。"],["林委員楚茵：謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝楚茵委員，部長請回。","接下來有請楊瓊瓔委員上台質詢。楊瓊瓔委員、楊瓊瓔委員，楊瓊瓔委員不在。","接下來請陳冠廷委員上台質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":300,"meet_id":"委員會-11-3-35-21","speakers":["沈伯洋","陳永康","羅美玲","陳俊宇","王定宇","林楚茵","陳冠廷","林岱樺","徐巧芯","林憶君","黃仁"],"page_start":263,"meetingDate":["2025-06-25"],"gazette_id":"1146201","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1146201_00012"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期外交及國防委員會第21次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、繼續處理院會交付113年度中央政府總預算決議，國防部主管預算凍結案等6案；二、處理院\n會交付114年度中央政府總預算決議，國防部主管預算凍結案等34案；三、處理院會交付114年度\n中央政府總預算決議，外交部主管預算凍結案1案；四、處理院會交付114年度中央政府總預算決\n議，僑務委員會主管預算凍結案1案","agenda_id":"1146201_00013"}}}