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932.013, \"score\": 0.994}, {\"word\": \"下\", \"start\": 932.013, \"end\": 932.033, \"score\": 1.0}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:18,349 --> 00:00:43,456\n請郭部長郭部長博定你都說你很注重安全我們繼續來搶救人命就是高雄大樹區的51公頃的山坡地山被鏟平了樹被砍掉了\n\n2\n00:00:44,619 --> 00:01:09,938\n我看你們昨天發了一個重要的新聞說這個案子啊你們已經依法廢止了光電許可事實上我去查你們廢止的應該是一小部分施工的許可吧你們廢止的是哪一部分如果照現在你們這樣的一個處分方式\n\n3\n00:01:11,361 --> 00:01:25,641\n絕大部分的光電板是不是還是會留在那邊山還是沒辦法恢復原狀還是存在它的危險性呢你們昨天發了新聞說你們廢止了光電許可是哪一部分\n\n4\n00:01:27,284 --> 00:01:56,062\n我請我們副署長跟你報告各位報告我們廢紙的部分是他部分的施工許可對嘛那紙廢紙的一小部分這個現在最嚴重的是什麼山已經被鏟平了然後這個光電板我去查這個光電板一共有一期跟二期20萬片的光電板潑在被鏟平的這個山上要20萬片喔\n\n5\n00:01:57,264 --> 00:02:24,555\n第二個它的發電量第一期發電量30兆瓦第二期15兆瓦一共加起來45兆瓦現在民眾要的真相是什麼危險性存在啊結果你們做了一個動作事實上的真相是高雄市政府只做了第二期的水土計畫許可的廢止只做了這個動作而已\n\n6\n00:02:26,394 --> 00:02:54,392\n那你們啊只做了一小部分的施工許可那就會造成剛剛講的你大部分的光電板還是留在那裡嘛第二個你的發電還是大部分還是存在嘛更嚴重的山還是被鏟平了沒有恢復原狀對不對危機還是在啊我們不是在搶救人命嗎白天你說要注意安全嗎現在是附近的居住的民眾都已經來陳前開了記者會了說不要重演小林村媚村\n\n7\n00:02:55,743 --> 00:03:03,607\n這樣一個悲劇你們怎麼會只有做這個啊你們是在打假球嗎這樣怎麼對得起人民啊那危機來了怎麼辦發生了悲劇怎麼辦\n\n8\n00:03:07,596 --> 00:03:28,087\n根委員報告其他的部分因為我們本來就在裁罰我們現在密切的在跟市政府監督他基本上我們會用最嚴格的標準來看這個事情他現在也陸陸續續在改善當中依其水保部分市政府也正在處理當中李政補充\n\n9\n00:03:29,454 --> 00:03:38,520\n真相就是山已經被產平了然後剛講的20萬片的光電板大部分還是存在嘛然後繼續要發電嘛是不是\n\n10\n00:03:43,527 --> 00:04:09,561\n那危機還是在博定你是要解決不是報告委員你們大動作發的這個新聞我們這個經濟部啊這個是依法來做事情那如果對方在這個寄存的這個這個案場裡面啊它是依法設置的那麼再不違反這個所謂的山坡山坡地的這個保育水土保持的這一些規範的話\n\n11\n00:04:11,650 --> 00:04:37,071\n我相信我們也沒有法條法規來撤銷或者是要他還原來的這個部分因為水土保守法會證明他對這個所謂的人身安全是沒有這個危害危機就產生了前陣子一場暴雨滾滾的泥流就衝下來所以民眾才非常緊急的\n\n12\n00:04:38,639 --> 00:05:01,292\n陳情開了記者會還有立委已經到現場去探勘嘛危機是現在進行式而且現在紅台帝又極端企劃我一直在提醒你它是現在進行式你們說要趕快處理結果現在發現你們是打假球啊你要徹底去解決問題委員我們沒有打假球你講這樣的這個說法是不是有一點過分來部長我們來看我們用實際的狀況來看你看左邊這個是開發前\n\n13\n00:05:06,274 --> 00:05:20,700\n一片利益釀然的這個土地是一個山坡上面是樹利益釀然的右邊現在被鏟平了水土保持又沒做好多觸目驚心的這個畫面你都說合法啊來大家知道嗎\n\n14\n00:05:24,841 --> 00:05:40,791\n依照建築技術規則建築的這個規定在第262條山坡地有下列各種情形之一者不得開發就是它的坡度是陡峭的超過30%這個坡度超過30%就不能開發喔我去查你看\n\n15\n00:05:45,578 --> 00:06:06,112\n我們坡度啊在三級以下的就是30%三級以下的大概只有47.16有四級坡以上的還有四級坡的這個有危險的超過一半耶這多危險的事情啊這不是一個違法的一個操作嗎然後現在危機已經在產生中啊\n\n16\n00:06:06,909 --> 00:06:26,599\n你發現危險就趕快解決問題啊所以我們已經停止他再開發了嘛然後我們再來衡量哪一些東西會違反這個水保法哪一些會危害到這些安全我們會要求他恢復嘛這個事情委員不能這樣說就是說我們都沒在處理事情\n\n17\n00:06:29,703 --> 00:06:50,332\n處理不到十分之一啦你的籌設許可也沒有匯值對不對現在更嚴重的喔我跟他講真相是什麼真相是什麼來我們看看那個圖第一期已經施工完成了他現在已經是在試營運的狀況欸你台電之前都已經允許他可以發電了欸\n\n18\n00:06:54,687 --> 00:06:58,010\n那你今天做了這個許可你認為說這個發電是不應該的就對了違法怎麼可以發電呢而且存在危險性啊\n\n19\n00:07:05,838 --> 00:07:19,784\n如果他沒有違反三波保育法你不可以用這樣來扣這個問題為什麼沒有違法呢現在是高雄市政府都已經去扒了不少你們自己都去開罰了保定有沒有違法你們都下去開罰高雄市政府都已經扒了我們也有開罰他我們必須要依法依規來處理事情嘛\n\n20\n00:07:33,829 --> 00:07:49,535\n阿你現在叫我們怎麼樣叫我們說這個馬上斷掉他嗎是不是我們現在也斷了他的這個繼續的做法第一個他越線去開發嘛超過那個界線去開發嘛所以我們有處罰他嘛我們不是沒有處罰他我們也處罰他了也下了令了\n\n21\n00:07:56,457 --> 00:08:23,500\n那你在講說我們這個都沒有在處理這樣子對我們的公務同仁非常打假球我剛剛跟你講你處理這個問題講這個打假球這個是非常嚴重的指控啦那威脅就是一直存在你不要解決人民的這個擔心我們當然要解決安全的問題啊但是解決事情也有一個解決方案你的解決方案就是第一期的光電板全部都在那裡還是存在的\n\n22\n00:08:24,827 --> 00:08:45,007\n第二次你只做了一小部分的施工許可的費值你做不到十分之一耶民眾現在清楚看到你的危機存在你的一小部分啦你的一小部分可能是整個事情的一大部分我們已經禁止他三分之一不准再繼續做下去了\n\n23\n00:08:46,158 --> 00:09:09,634\n有三分之一嗎這個有餘地那三分之二三分之二之前就是就是下雨暴雨危機基本是存在嘛那你的三分之二你要留著是吧你承認三分之二要留著你現在跟前面講我沒有講說三分之二要留著那個是你在套這件事情喔報告委員請你在這個地方質詢的時候不要用話術\n\n24\n00:09:10,535 --> 00:09:36,169\n不是畫素你說還有畫素你剛才不是清楚有20萬片的光電板太陽能光電板保證說三分之二留著嗎他現在設置的只有七成而已哪來的三分之二啊對啊你剛才不是說三分之一七成跟三分之二那是你講的喔七成跟三分之二差多少就是你講的七成他是第一階段你講的三十這個兆瓦的七成喔\n\n25\n00:09:37,779 --> 00:10:06,757\n整個的我們允許他的大概只有一半而已人命關天危機是現在起第一個我們現在清楚跟民眾講依照經濟部跟高雄市政府打假球目前清清楚楚這是第一期幾乎是沒有處理的第一期違法事實非常的明確第一個越縣區開發違反水土保持法他們都開罰了可是他們現在經過這樣之後還把它光電板還留在那邊山也沒有要恢復\n\n26\n00:10:08,055 --> 00:10:27,192\n所以就保持也沒辦法做了危機還是存在的這個就是現在的真相這是最嚴重的問題所以我今天為什麼要問這個問題你要繼續趕快怎麼確保讓民眾我們在努力喔我們在努力你一天裡面要求我全部把它恢復你認為可能嗎所有的事情總是循序漸進的嘛\n\n27\n00:10:28,453 --> 00:10:49,996\n是不是你怎麼可以講說可能要100天的這個已經它造成今天的現象兩年了你叫我一天之內把它恢復我沒有辦法變這個魔法你講的這個魔法這個做法我們是做不到的啦我們要講一個更重要的內幕我們已經禁止它繼續再做下去了我們也要馬上的\n\n28\n00:10:51,092 --> 00:11:15,248\n在安全有問題的部分趕快來這個緊急的來做一些這個調適不是這樣你今天在這邊講說我們什麼打假球打假球這個字是非常嚴重的我聽你不要講話術啦就是危機確實存在嘛對不對你要幫人民解決問題我們是在幫人民解決問題這是第一個好我就要講今天一個重要的內幕來\n\n29\n00:11:17,345 --> 00:11:45,431\n陳其邁都急著要切割了部長還不曉得要切割你還一直在背書這個危機這個開發的業者叫做聰明的家老闆跟林瑞峰這個大家到監察院上面公報上面查都查得到這個把山鏟平把樹砍掉的這個業者聰明的家老闆林瑞峰在110年的11月\n\n30\n00:11:46,894 --> 00:12:11,660\n捐了政治獻金給陳其邁十萬塊捐給蔡奇商兩萬何欣淳八萬塊我下面要放大給大家看陳其邁111年高雄市長選舉的時候林瑞豐聰明的家把三產坪的業者捐了十萬塊隔了一個月他就拿到了開發許可\n\n31\n00:12:14,913 --> 00:12:35,588\n這個如果到柯文哲或其他案子這就是收賄啊貪污收賄罪啊陳其邁很聰明的他馬上就急著趕快要切割了所以他趕快想了一部分的這個處分還有一些許可他要停可是部長你現在還不想要切割\n\n32\n00:12:37,233 --> 00:12:58,190\n危機垂死存在可能有土石流來居民講的是什麼小林村的妹村可能重演欸人命關掉而且現代進行是你不去處理人家都知道自己要切割了你到現在今天做了一個小部分的廢止危機是存在嘛我來我具體做兩個要求啦\n\n33\n00:13:00,933 --> 00:13:18,869\n你現在不是只有廢止那小部分你現在應該廢止的是什麼整個開發案第一期跟第二期的綽設席可而且要求廠商把這個山坡地要恢復到原狀這個危機才會化除啊民眾是不是要等這個民眾來陳情就是要求這個嘛\n\n34\n00:13:23,663 --> 00:13:47,534\n因為它有危機嘛一百應該這樣做嘛結果你一小部分的施工許可你要的是第一期跟第二期的籌算許可整個拿掉包括你說的會存在那些光電板在第一期的當然要拆掉啊恢復原狀啊山還要山坡要恢復啊這是第一個危機才能夠化解要不然的話這個危機就存在第二個\n\n35\n00:13:48,666 --> 00:14:15,538\n要針對山坡地你若去做光電或者再生能源開發案你現在要規範這個廠商你若被你撤銷以後他要怎麼去恢復原狀保障人民安全這才是你現在要做的吧經濟保定我們會依法行事第一個我們經濟部是政府的一環我們所有的工作都必須要在依法的這個範圍裡面去做事情\n\n36\n00:14:16,938 --> 00:14:40,356\n剛才委員所指正的這個部分有一部分已經超過這個時效了所以我們要來考慮怎麼樣子才能夠找到一個合法的這個框架之間來進行超過時效危機存在嘛對不對大家都有共識嘛民眾來陳情嘛這已經媒體跟網路上已經炸開了\n\n37\n00:14:41,584 --> 00:14:48,147\n我們要幫人民解決問題不要讓悲劇產生幫人民解決問題是我們的責任幫人民解決問題是我們的責任這一點你放心我們不會我們存在的價值就是幫人民解決問題事實上不只是我的要求\n\n38\n00:15:00,200 --> 00:15:24,369\n這應該是絕大部分的民眾的要求這個也是附近的居民明確的這個要求避免小林村、媚村的事件重演請盡快完成撤銷這個案子的第一期、第二期的綽設許可第二個這個三光電板不只要撤掉要趕快恢復原狀樹該種的要種上去水土保持要做好這樣才能夠避免悲劇產生\n\n39\n00:15:25,540 --> 00:15:32,033\n好王定加油啦加油啦這個要跟時間賽跑這個不能偷啦好不好謝謝好謝謝主席坐一下\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n18349\t43456\t請郭部長郭部長博定你都說你很注重安全我們繼續來搶救人命就是高雄大樹區的51公頃的山坡地山被鏟平了樹被砍掉了\n44619\t69938\t我看你們昨天發了一個重要的新聞說這個案子啊你們已經依法廢止了光電許可事實上我去查你們廢止的應該是一小部分施工的許可吧你們廢止的是哪一部分如果照現在你們這樣的一個處分方式\n71361\t85641\t絕大部分的光電板是不是還是會留在那邊山還是沒辦法恢復原狀還是存在它的危險性呢你們昨天發了新聞說你們廢止了光電許可是哪一部分\n87284\t116062\t我請我們副署長跟你報告各位報告我們廢紙的部分是他部分的施工許可對嘛那紙廢紙的一小部分這個現在最嚴重的是什麼山已經被鏟平了然後這個光電板我去查這個光電板一共有一期跟二期20萬片的光電板潑在被鏟平的這個山上要20萬片喔\n117264\t144555\t第二個它的發電量第一期發電量30兆瓦第二期15兆瓦一共加起來45兆瓦現在民眾要的真相是什麼危險性存在啊結果你們做了一個動作事實上的真相是高雄市政府只做了第二期的水土計畫許可的廢止只做了這個動作而已\n146394\t174392\t那你們啊 只做了一小部分的施工許可那就會造成剛剛講的你大部分的光電板還是留在那裡嘛第二個 你的發電還是大部分還是存在嘛更嚴重的 山還是被鏟平了 沒有恢復原狀 對不對危機還是在啊我們不是在搶救人命嗎 白天你說要注意安全嗎現在是附近的居住的民眾都已經來陳前開了記者會了說不要重演小林村 媚村\n175743\t183607\t這樣一個悲劇你們怎麼會只有做這個啊你們是在打假球嗎這樣怎麼對得起人民啊那危機來了怎麼辦發生了悲劇怎麼辦\n187596\t208087\t根委員報告 其他的部分因為我們本來就在裁罰我們現在密切的在跟市政府監督他基本上我們會用最嚴格的標準來看這個事情他現在也陸陸續續在改善當中依其水保部分市政府也正在處理當中 李政補充\n209454\t218520\t真相就是山已經被產平了然後剛講的20萬片的光電板大部分還是存在嘛然後繼續要發電嘛 是不是\n223527\t249561\t那危機還是在 博定你是要解決不是 報告委員你們大動作發的這個新聞我們這個經濟部啊這個是依法來做事情那如果對方在這個寄存的這個這個案場裡面啊它是依法設置的那麼再不違反這個所謂的山坡山坡地的這個保育水土保持的這一些規範的話\n251650\t277071\t我相信我們也沒有法條法規來撤銷或者是要他還原來的這個部分因為水土保守法會證明他對這個所謂的人身安全是沒有這個危害危機就產生了前陣子一場暴雨滾滾的泥流就衝下來所以民眾才非常緊急的\n278639\t301292\t陳情開了記者會還有立委已經到現場去探勘嘛危機是現在進行式而且現在紅台帝又極端企劃我一直在提醒你它是現在進行式你們說要趕快處理結果現在發現你們是打假球啊你要徹底去解決問題委員我們沒有打假球你講這樣的這個說法是不是有一點過分來部長我們來看我們用實際的狀況來看你看左邊這個是開發前\n306274\t320700\t一片利益釀然的這個土地是一個山坡 上面是樹利益釀然的 右邊現在被鏟平了水土保持又沒做好多觸目驚心的這個畫面你都說合法啊 來大家知道嗎\n324841\t340791\t依照建築技術規則建築的這個規定在第262條山坡地有下列各種情形之一者不得開發就是它的坡度是陡峭的超過30%這個坡度超過30%就不能開發喔我去查你看\n345578\t366112\t我們坡度啊在三級以下的就是30%三級以下的大概只有47.16有四級坡以上的還有四級坡的這個有危險的超過一半耶這多危險的事情啊這不是一個違法的一個操作嗎然後現在危機已經在產生中啊\n366909\t386599\t你發現危險就趕快解決問題啊所以我們已經停止他再開發了嘛然後我們再來衡量哪一些東西會違反這個水保法哪一些會危害到這些安全我們會要求他恢復嘛這個事情委員不能這樣說就是說我們都沒在處理事情\n389703\t410332\t處理不到十分之一啦你的籌設許可也沒有匯值 對不對現在更嚴重的喔 我跟他講真相是什麼真相是什麼來我們看看那個圖第一期已經施工完成了他現在已經是在試營運的狀況欸你台電之前都已經允許他可以發電了欸\n414687\t418010\t那你今天做了這個許可你認為說這個發電是不應該的就對了違法怎麼可以發電呢而且存在危險性啊\n425838\t439784\t如果他沒有違反三波保育法你不可以用這樣來扣這個問題為什麼沒有違法呢 現在是高雄市政府都已經去扒了不少 你們自己都去開罰了 保定有沒有違法你們都下去開罰 高雄市政府都已經扒了我們也有開罰他我們必須要依法依規來處理事情嘛\n453829\t469535\t阿你現在叫我們怎麼樣 叫我們說這個馬上斷掉他嗎是不是 我們現在也斷了他的這個繼續的做法第一個 他越線去開發嘛 超過那個界線去開發嘛所以我們有處罰他嘛 我們不是沒有處罰他我們也處罰他了 也下了令了\n476457\t503500\t那你在講說我們這個都沒有在處理這樣子對我們的公務同仁非常打假球我剛剛跟你講你處理這個問題講這個打假球這個是非常嚴重的指控啦那威脅就是一直存在你不要解決人民的這個擔心我們當然要解決安全的問題啊但是解決事情也有一個解決方案你的解決方案就是第一期的光電板全部都在那裡還是存在的\n504827\t525007\t第二次你只做了一小部分的施工許可的費值你做不到十分之一耶民眾現在清楚看到你的危機存在你的一小部分啦你的一小部分可能是整個事情的一大部分我們已經禁止他三分之一不准再繼續做下去了\n526158\t549634\t有三分之一嗎 這個有餘地那三分之二 三分之二之前就是就是下雨 暴雨 危機基本是存在嘛那你的三分之二你要留著是吧你承認三分之二要留著你現在跟前面講我沒有講說三分之二要留著那個是你在套這件事情喔報告委員 請你在這個地方質詢的時候不要用話術\n550535\t576169\t不是畫素 你說還有畫素 你剛才不是清楚有20萬片的光電板 太陽能光電板保證說三分之二留著嗎他現在設置的只有七成而已哪來的三分之二啊對啊 你剛才不是說三分之一七成跟三分之二那是你講的喔七成跟三分之二差多少就是你講的七成他是第一階段 你講的三十這個兆瓦的七成喔\n577779\t606757\t整個的 我們允許他的大概只有一半而已人命關天 危機是現在起第一個 我們現在清楚跟民眾講依照經濟部跟高雄市政府打假球目前清清楚楚這是第一期幾乎是沒有處理的第一期違法事實非常的明確第一個 越縣區開發違反水土保持法 他們都開罰了可是他們現在經過這樣之後還把它 光電板還留在那邊山也沒有要恢復\n608055\t627192\t所以就保持也沒辦法做了危機還是存在的這個就是現在的真相這是最嚴重的問題所以我今天為什麼要問這個問題你要繼續趕快怎麼確保讓民眾我們在努力喔我們在努力你一天裡面要求我全部把它恢復你認為可能嗎所有的事情總是循序漸進的嘛\n628453\t649996\t是不是 你怎麼可以講說可能要100天的這個已經它造成今天的現象兩年了你叫我一天之內把它恢復我沒有辦法變這個魔法你講的這個魔法這個做法我們是做不到的啦我們要講一個更重要的內幕我們已經禁止它繼續再做下去了我們也要馬上的\n651092\t675248\t在安全有問題的部分趕快來這個緊急的來做一些這個調適不是這樣你今天在這邊講說我們什麼打假球打假球這個字是非常嚴重的我聽你不要講話術啦就是危機確實存在嘛對不對你要幫人民解決問題我們是在幫人民解決問題這是第一個好我就要講今天一個重要的內幕來\n677345\t705431\t陳其邁都急著要切割了部長還不曉得要切割你還一直在背書這個危機這個開發的業者叫做聰明的家老闆跟林瑞峰這個大家到監察院上面公報上面查都查得到這個把山鏟平把樹砍掉的這個業者聰明的家老闆林瑞峰在110年的11月\n706894\t731660\t捐了政治獻金給陳其邁 十萬塊捐給蔡奇商兩萬 何欣淳 八萬塊我下面要放大給大家看 陳其邁111年高雄市長選舉的時候林瑞豐 聰明的家 把三產坪的業者捐了十萬塊隔了一個月 他就拿到了開發許可\n734913\t755588\t這個如果到柯文哲或其他案子這就是收賄啊 貪污收賄罪啊陳其邁很聰明的他馬上就急著趕快要切割了所以他趕快想了一部分的這個處分還有一些許可他要停可是部長你現在還不想要切割\n757233\t778190\t危機垂死存在可能有土石流來居民講的是什麼小林村的妹村可能重演欸人命關掉而且現代進行是你不去處理人家都知道自己要切割了你到現在今天做了一個小部分的廢止危機是存在嘛我來我具體做兩個要求啦\n780933\t798869\t你現在不是只有廢止那小部分你現在應該廢止的是什麼整個開發案第一期跟第二期的綽設席可而且要求廠商把這個山坡地要恢復到原狀這個危機才會化除啊民眾是不是要等這個民眾來陳情就是要求這個嘛\n803663\t827534\t因為它有危機嘛一百應該這樣做嘛結果你一小部分的施工許可你要的是第一期跟第二期的籌算許可整個拿掉包括你說的會存在那些光電板在第一期的當然要拆掉啊恢復原狀啊山還要山坡要恢復啊這是第一個危機才能夠化解要不然的話這個危機就存在第二個\n828666\t855538\t要針對山坡地你若去做光電或者再生能源開發案你現在要規範這個廠商你若被你撤銷以後他要怎麼去恢復原狀保障人民安全這才是你現在要做的吧經濟保定我們會依法行事第一個我們經濟部是政府的一環我們所有的工作都必須要在依法的這個範圍裡面去做事情\n856938\t880356\t剛才委員所指正的這個部分有一部分已經超過這個時效了所以我們要來考慮怎麼樣子才能夠找到一個合法的這個框架之間來進行超過時效 危機存在嘛 對不對大家都有共識嘛 民眾來陳情嘛這已經媒體跟網路上已經炸開了\n881584\t888147\t我們要幫人民解決問題不要讓悲劇產生幫人民解決問題是我們的責任幫人民解決問題是我們的責任這一點你放心我們不會我們存在的價值就是幫人民解決問題事實上不只是我的要求\n900200\t924369\t這應該是絕大部分的民眾的要求這個也是附近的居民明確的這個要求避免小林村、媚村的事件重演請盡快完成撤銷這個案子的第一期、第二期的綽設許可第二個 這個三光電板不只要撤掉要趕快恢復原狀樹該種的要種上去 水土保持要做好這樣才能夠避免悲劇產生\n925540\t932033\t好 王定加油啦 加油啦這個要跟時間賽跑 這個不能偷啦好不好 謝謝好 謝謝主席坐一下\n","txt":"請郭部長郭部長博定你都說你很注重安全我們繼續來搶救人命就是高雄大樹區的51公頃的山坡地山被鏟平了樹被砍掉了\n我看你們昨天發了一個重要的新聞說這個案子啊你們已經依法廢止了光電許可事實上我去查你們廢止的應該是一小部分施工的許可吧你們廢止的是哪一部分如果照現在你們這樣的一個處分方式\n絕大部分的光電板是不是還是會留在那邊山還是沒辦法恢復原狀還是存在它的危險性呢你們昨天發了新聞說你們廢止了光電許可是哪一部分\n我請我們副署長跟你報告各位報告我們廢紙的部分是他部分的施工許可對嘛那紙廢紙的一小部分這個現在最嚴重的是什麼山已經被鏟平了然後這個光電板我去查這個光電板一共有一期跟二期20萬片的光電板潑在被鏟平的這個山上要20萬片喔\n第二個它的發電量第一期發電量30兆瓦第二期15兆瓦一共加起來45兆瓦現在民眾要的真相是什麼危險性存在啊結果你們做了一個動作事實上的真相是高雄市政府只做了第二期的水土計畫許可的廢止只做了這個動作而已\n那你們啊 只做了一小部分的施工許可那就會造成剛剛講的你大部分的光電板還是留在那裡嘛第二個 你的發電還是大部分還是存在嘛更嚴重的 山還是被鏟平了 沒有恢復原狀 對不對危機還是在啊我們不是在搶救人命嗎 白天你說要注意安全嗎現在是附近的居住的民眾都已經來陳前開了記者會了說不要重演小林村 媚村\n這樣一個悲劇你們怎麼會只有做這個啊你們是在打假球嗎這樣怎麼對得起人民啊那危機來了怎麼辦發生了悲劇怎麼辦\n根委員報告 其他的部分因為我們本來就在裁罰我們現在密切的在跟市政府監督他基本上我們會用最嚴格的標準來看這個事情他現在也陸陸續續在改善當中依其水保部分市政府也正在處理當中 李政補充\n真相就是山已經被產平了然後剛講的20萬片的光電板大部分還是存在嘛然後繼續要發電嘛 是不是\n那危機還是在 博定你是要解決不是 報告委員你們大動作發的這個新聞我們這個經濟部啊這個是依法來做事情那如果對方在這個寄存的這個這個案場裡面啊它是依法設置的那麼再不違反這個所謂的山坡山坡地的這個保育水土保持的這一些規範的話\n我相信我們也沒有法條法規來撤銷或者是要他還原來的這個部分因為水土保守法會證明他對這個所謂的人身安全是沒有這個危害危機就產生了前陣子一場暴雨滾滾的泥流就衝下來所以民眾才非常緊急的\n陳情開了記者會還有立委已經到現場去探勘嘛危機是現在進行式而且現在紅台帝又極端企劃我一直在提醒你它是現在進行式你們說要趕快處理結果現在發現你們是打假球啊你要徹底去解決問題委員我們沒有打假球你講這樣的這個說法是不是有一點過分來部長我們來看我們用實際的狀況來看你看左邊這個是開發前\n一片利益釀然的這個土地是一個山坡 上面是樹利益釀然的 右邊現在被鏟平了水土保持又沒做好多觸目驚心的這個畫面你都說合法啊 來大家知道嗎\n依照建築技術規則建築的這個規定在第262條山坡地有下列各種情形之一者不得開發就是它的坡度是陡峭的超過30%這個坡度超過30%就不能開發喔我去查你看\n我們坡度啊在三級以下的就是30%三級以下的大概只有47.16有四級坡以上的還有四級坡的這個有危險的超過一半耶這多危險的事情啊這不是一個違法的一個操作嗎然後現在危機已經在產生中啊\n你發現危險就趕快解決問題啊所以我們已經停止他再開發了嘛然後我們再來衡量哪一些東西會違反這個水保法哪一些會危害到這些安全我們會要求他恢復嘛這個事情委員不能這樣說就是說我們都沒在處理事情\n處理不到十分之一啦你的籌設許可也沒有匯值 對不對現在更嚴重的喔 我跟他講真相是什麼真相是什麼來我們看看那個圖第一期已經施工完成了他現在已經是在試營運的狀況欸你台電之前都已經允許他可以發電了欸\n那你今天做了這個許可你認為說這個發電是不應該的就對了違法怎麼可以發電呢而且存在危險性啊\n如果他沒有違反三波保育法你不可以用這樣來扣這個問題為什麼沒有違法呢 現在是高雄市政府都已經去扒了不少 你們自己都去開罰了 保定有沒有違法你們都下去開罰 高雄市政府都已經扒了我們也有開罰他我們必須要依法依規來處理事情嘛\n阿你現在叫我們怎麼樣 叫我們說這個馬上斷掉他嗎是不是 我們現在也斷了他的這個繼續的做法第一個 他越線去開發嘛 超過那個界線去開發嘛所以我們有處罰他嘛 我們不是沒有處罰他我們也處罰他了 也下了令了\n那你在講說我們這個都沒有在處理這樣子對我們的公務同仁非常打假球我剛剛跟你講你處理這個問題講這個打假球這個是非常嚴重的指控啦那威脅就是一直存在你不要解決人民的這個擔心我們當然要解決安全的問題啊但是解決事情也有一個解決方案你的解決方案就是第一期的光電板全部都在那裡還是存在的\n第二次你只做了一小部分的施工許可的費值你做不到十分之一耶民眾現在清楚看到你的危機存在你的一小部分啦你的一小部分可能是整個事情的一大部分我們已經禁止他三分之一不准再繼續做下去了\n有三分之一嗎 這個有餘地那三分之二 三分之二之前就是就是下雨 暴雨 危機基本是存在嘛那你的三分之二你要留著是吧你承認三分之二要留著你現在跟前面講我沒有講說三分之二要留著那個是你在套這件事情喔報告委員 請你在這個地方質詢的時候不要用話術\n不是畫素 你說還有畫素 你剛才不是清楚有20萬片的光電板 太陽能光電板保證說三分之二留著嗎他現在設置的只有七成而已哪來的三分之二啊對啊 你剛才不是說三分之一七成跟三分之二那是你講的喔七成跟三分之二差多少就是你講的七成他是第一階段 你講的三十這個兆瓦的七成喔\n整個的 我們允許他的大概只有一半而已人命關天 危機是現在起第一個 我們現在清楚跟民眾講依照經濟部跟高雄市政府打假球目前清清楚楚這是第一期幾乎是沒有處理的第一期違法事實非常的明確第一個 越縣區開發違反水土保持法 他們都開罰了可是他們現在經過這樣之後還把它 光電板還留在那邊山也沒有要恢復\n所以就保持也沒辦法做了危機還是存在的這個就是現在的真相這是最嚴重的問題所以我今天為什麼要問這個問題你要繼續趕快怎麼確保讓民眾我們在努力喔我們在努力你一天裡面要求我全部把它恢復你認為可能嗎所有的事情總是循序漸進的嘛\n是不是 你怎麼可以講說可能要100天的這個已經它造成今天的現象兩年了你叫我一天之內把它恢復我沒有辦法變這個魔法你講的這個魔法這個做法我們是做不到的啦我們要講一個更重要的內幕我們已經禁止它繼續再做下去了我們也要馬上的\n在安全有問題的部分趕快來這個緊急的來做一些這個調適不是這樣你今天在這邊講說我們什麼打假球打假球這個字是非常嚴重的我聽你不要講話術啦就是危機確實存在嘛對不對你要幫人民解決問題我們是在幫人民解決問題這是第一個好我就要講今天一個重要的內幕來\n陳其邁都急著要切割了部長還不曉得要切割你還一直在背書這個危機這個開發的業者叫做聰明的家老闆跟林瑞峰這個大家到監察院上面公報上面查都查得到這個把山鏟平把樹砍掉的這個業者聰明的家老闆林瑞峰在110年的11月\n捐了政治獻金給陳其邁 十萬塊捐給蔡奇商兩萬 何欣淳 八萬塊我下面要放大給大家看 陳其邁111年高雄市長選舉的時候林瑞豐 聰明的家 把三產坪的業者捐了十萬塊隔了一個月 他就拿到了開發許可\n這個如果到柯文哲或其他案子這就是收賄啊 貪污收賄罪啊陳其邁很聰明的他馬上就急著趕快要切割了所以他趕快想了一部分的這個處分還有一些許可他要停可是部長你現在還不想要切割\n危機垂死存在可能有土石流來居民講的是什麼小林村的妹村可能重演欸人命關掉而且現代進行是你不去處理人家都知道自己要切割了你到現在今天做了一個小部分的廢止危機是存在嘛我來我具體做兩個要求啦\n你現在不是只有廢止那小部分你現在應該廢止的是什麼整個開發案第一期跟第二期的綽設席可而且要求廠商把這個山坡地要恢復到原狀這個危機才會化除啊民眾是不是要等這個民眾來陳情就是要求這個嘛\n因為它有危機嘛一百應該這樣做嘛結果你一小部分的施工許可你要的是第一期跟第二期的籌算許可整個拿掉包括你說的會存在那些光電板在第一期的當然要拆掉啊恢復原狀啊山還要山坡要恢復啊這是第一個危機才能夠化解要不然的話這個危機就存在第二個\n要針對山坡地你若去做光電或者再生能源開發案你現在要規範這個廠商你若被你撤銷以後他要怎麼去恢復原狀保障人民安全這才是你現在要做的吧經濟保定我們會依法行事第一個我們經濟部是政府的一環我們所有的工作都必須要在依法的這個範圍裡面去做事情\n剛才委員所指正的這個部分有一部分已經超過這個時效了所以我們要來考慮怎麼樣子才能夠找到一個合法的這個框架之間來進行超過時效 危機存在嘛 對不對大家都有共識嘛 民眾來陳情嘛這已經媒體跟網路上已經炸開了\n我們要幫人民解決問題不要讓悲劇產生幫人民解決問題是我們的責任幫人民解決問題是我們的責任這一點你放心我們不會我們存在的價值就是幫人民解決問題事實上不只是我的要求\n這應該是絕大部分的民眾的要求這個也是附近的居民明確的這個要求避免小林村、媚村的事件重演請盡快完成撤銷這個案子的第一期、第二期的綽設許可第二個 這個三光電板不只要撤掉要趕快恢復原狀樹該種的要種上去 水土保持要做好這樣才能夠避免悲劇產生\n好 王定加油啦 加油啦這個要跟時間賽跑 這個不能偷啦好不好 謝謝好 謝謝主席坐一下\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:18.349 --> 00:43.456\n請郭部長郭部長博定你都說你很注重安全我們繼續來搶救人命就是高雄大樹區的51公頃的山坡地山被鏟平了樹被砍掉了\n\n00:44.619 --> 01:09.938\n我看你們昨天發了一個重要的新聞說這個案子啊你們已經依法廢止了光電許可事實上我去查你們廢止的應該是一小部分施工的許可吧你們廢止的是哪一部分如果照現在你們這樣的一個處分方式\n\n01:11.361 --> 01:25.641\n絕大部分的光電板是不是還是會留在那邊山還是沒辦法恢復原狀還是存在它的危險性呢你們昨天發了新聞說你們廢止了光電許可是哪一部分\n\n01:27.284 --> 01:56.062\n我請我們副署長跟你報告各位報告我們廢紙的部分是他部分的施工許可對嘛那紙廢紙的一小部分這個現在最嚴重的是什麼山已經被鏟平了然後這個光電板我去查這個光電板一共有一期跟二期20萬片的光電板潑在被鏟平的這個山上要20萬片喔\n\n01:57.264 --> 02:24.555\n第二個它的發電量第一期發電量30兆瓦第二期15兆瓦一共加起來45兆瓦現在民眾要的真相是什麼危險性存在啊結果你們做了一個動作事實上的真相是高雄市政府只做了第二期的水土計畫許可的廢止只做了這個動作而已\n\n02:26.394 --> 02:54.392\n那你們啊只做了一小部分的施工許可那就會造成剛剛講的你大部分的光電板還是留在那裡嘛第二個你的發電還是大部分還是存在嘛更嚴重的山還是被鏟平了沒有恢復原狀對不對危機還是在啊我們不是在搶救人命嗎白天你說要注意安全嗎現在是附近的居住的民眾都已經來陳前開了記者會了說不要重演小林村媚村\n\n02:55.743 --> 03:03.607\n這樣一個悲劇你們怎麼會只有做這個啊你們是在打假球嗎這樣怎麼對得起人民啊那危機來了怎麼辦發生了悲劇怎麼辦\n\n03:07.596 --> 03:28.087\n根委員報告其他的部分因為我們本來就在裁罰我們現在密切的在跟市政府監督他基本上我們會用最嚴格的標準來看這個事情他現在也陸陸續續在改善當中依其水保部分市政府也正在處理當中李政補充\n\n03:29.454 --> 03:38.520\n真相就是山已經被產平了然後剛講的20萬片的光電板大部分還是存在嘛然後繼續要發電嘛是不是\n\n03:43.527 --> 04:09.561\n那危機還是在博定你是要解決不是報告委員你們大動作發的這個新聞我們這個經濟部啊這個是依法來做事情那如果對方在這個寄存的這個這個案場裡面啊它是依法設置的那麼再不違反這個所謂的山坡山坡地的這個保育水土保持的這一些規範的話\n\n04:11.650 --> 04:37.071\n我相信我們也沒有法條法規來撤銷或者是要他還原來的這個部分因為水土保守法會證明他對這個所謂的人身安全是沒有這個危害危機就產生了前陣子一場暴雨滾滾的泥流就衝下來所以民眾才非常緊急的\n\n04:38.639 --> 05:01.292\n陳情開了記者會還有立委已經到現場去探勘嘛危機是現在進行式而且現在紅台帝又極端企劃我一直在提醒你它是現在進行式你們說要趕快處理結果現在發現你們是打假球啊你要徹底去解決問題委員我們沒有打假球你講這樣的這個說法是不是有一點過分來部長我們來看我們用實際的狀況來看你看左邊這個是開發前\n\n05:06.274 --> 05:20.700\n一片利益釀然的這個土地是一個山坡上面是樹利益釀然的右邊現在被鏟平了水土保持又沒做好多觸目驚心的這個畫面你都說合法啊來大家知道嗎\n\n05:24.841 --> 05:40.791\n依照建築技術規則建築的這個規定在第262條山坡地有下列各種情形之一者不得開發就是它的坡度是陡峭的超過30%這個坡度超過30%就不能開發喔我去查你看\n\n05:45.578 --> 06:06.112\n我們坡度啊在三級以下的就是30%三級以下的大概只有47.16有四級坡以上的還有四級坡的這個有危險的超過一半耶這多危險的事情啊這不是一個違法的一個操作嗎然後現在危機已經在產生中啊\n\n06:06.909 --> 06:26.599\n你發現危險就趕快解決問題啊所以我們已經停止他再開發了嘛然後我們再來衡量哪一些東西會違反這個水保法哪一些會危害到這些安全我們會要求他恢復嘛這個事情委員不能這樣說就是說我們都沒在處理事情\n\n06:29.703 --> 06:50.332\n處理不到十分之一啦你的籌設許可也沒有匯值對不對現在更嚴重的喔我跟他講真相是什麼真相是什麼來我們看看那個圖第一期已經施工完成了他現在已經是在試營運的狀況欸你台電之前都已經允許他可以發電了欸\n\n06:54.687 --> 06:58.010\n那你今天做了這個許可你認為說這個發電是不應該的就對了違法怎麼可以發電呢而且存在危險性啊\n\n07:05.838 --> 07:19.784\n如果他沒有違反三波保育法你不可以用這樣來扣這個問題為什麼沒有違法呢現在是高雄市政府都已經去扒了不少你們自己都去開罰了保定有沒有違法你們都下去開罰高雄市政府都已經扒了我們也有開罰他我們必須要依法依規來處理事情嘛\n\n07:33.829 --> 07:49.535\n阿你現在叫我們怎麼樣叫我們說這個馬上斷掉他嗎是不是我們現在也斷了他的這個繼續的做法第一個他越線去開發嘛超過那個界線去開發嘛所以我們有處罰他嘛我們不是沒有處罰他我們也處罰他了也下了令了\n\n07:56.457 --> 08:23.500\n那你在講說我們這個都沒有在處理這樣子對我們的公務同仁非常打假球我剛剛跟你講你處理這個問題講這個打假球這個是非常嚴重的指控啦那威脅就是一直存在你不要解決人民的這個擔心我們當然要解決安全的問題啊但是解決事情也有一個解決方案你的解決方案就是第一期的光電板全部都在那裡還是存在的\n\n08:24.827 --> 08:45.007\n第二次你只做了一小部分的施工許可的費值你做不到十分之一耶民眾現在清楚看到你的危機存在你的一小部分啦你的一小部分可能是整個事情的一大部分我們已經禁止他三分之一不准再繼續做下去了\n\n08:46.158 --> 09:09.634\n有三分之一嗎這個有餘地那三分之二三分之二之前就是就是下雨暴雨危機基本是存在嘛那你的三分之二你要留著是吧你承認三分之二要留著你現在跟前面講我沒有講說三分之二要留著那個是你在套這件事情喔報告委員請你在這個地方質詢的時候不要用話術\n\n09:10.535 --> 09:36.169\n不是畫素你說還有畫素你剛才不是清楚有20萬片的光電板太陽能光電板保證說三分之二留著嗎他現在設置的只有七成而已哪來的三分之二啊對啊你剛才不是說三分之一七成跟三分之二那是你講的喔七成跟三分之二差多少就是你講的七成他是第一階段你講的三十這個兆瓦的七成喔\n\n09:37.779 --> 10:06.757\n整個的我們允許他的大概只有一半而已人命關天危機是現在起第一個我們現在清楚跟民眾講依照經濟部跟高雄市政府打假球目前清清楚楚這是第一期幾乎是沒有處理的第一期違法事實非常的明確第一個越縣區開發違反水土保持法他們都開罰了可是他們現在經過這樣之後還把它光電板還留在那邊山也沒有要恢復\n\n10:08.055 --> 10:27.192\n所以就保持也沒辦法做了危機還是存在的這個就是現在的真相這是最嚴重的問題所以我今天為什麼要問這個問題你要繼續趕快怎麼確保讓民眾我們在努力喔我們在努力你一天裡面要求我全部把它恢復你認為可能嗎所有的事情總是循序漸進的嘛\n\n10:28.453 --> 10:49.996\n是不是你怎麼可以講說可能要100天的這個已經它造成今天的現象兩年了你叫我一天之內把它恢復我沒有辦法變這個魔法你講的這個魔法這個做法我們是做不到的啦我們要講一個更重要的內幕我們已經禁止它繼續再做下去了我們也要馬上的\n\n10:51.092 --> 11:15.248\n在安全有問題的部分趕快來這個緊急的來做一些這個調適不是這樣你今天在這邊講說我們什麼打假球打假球這個字是非常嚴重的我聽你不要講話術啦就是危機確實存在嘛對不對你要幫人民解決問題我們是在幫人民解決問題這是第一個好我就要講今天一個重要的內幕來\n\n11:17.345 --> 11:45.431\n陳其邁都急著要切割了部長還不曉得要切割你還一直在背書這個危機這個開發的業者叫做聰明的家老闆跟林瑞峰這個大家到監察院上面公報上面查都查得到這個把山鏟平把樹砍掉的這個業者聰明的家老闆林瑞峰在110年的11月\n\n11:46.894 --> 12:11.660\n捐了政治獻金給陳其邁十萬塊捐給蔡奇商兩萬何欣淳八萬塊我下面要放大給大家看陳其邁111年高雄市長選舉的時候林瑞豐聰明的家把三產坪的業者捐了十萬塊隔了一個月他就拿到了開發許可\n\n12:14.913 --> 12:35.588\n這個如果到柯文哲或其他案子這就是收賄啊貪污收賄罪啊陳其邁很聰明的他馬上就急著趕快要切割了所以他趕快想了一部分的這個處分還有一些許可他要停可是部長你現在還不想要切割\n\n12:37.233 --> 12:58.190\n危機垂死存在可能有土石流來居民講的是什麼小林村的妹村可能重演欸人命關掉而且現代進行是你不去處理人家都知道自己要切割了你到現在今天做了一個小部分的廢止危機是存在嘛我來我具體做兩個要求啦\n\n13:00.933 --> 13:18.869\n你現在不是只有廢止那小部分你現在應該廢止的是什麼整個開發案第一期跟第二期的綽設席可而且要求廠商把這個山坡地要恢復到原狀這個危機才會化除啊民眾是不是要等這個民眾來陳情就是要求這個嘛\n\n13:23.663 --> 13:47.534\n因為它有危機嘛一百應該這樣做嘛結果你一小部分的施工許可你要的是第一期跟第二期的籌算許可整個拿掉包括你說的會存在那些光電板在第一期的當然要拆掉啊恢復原狀啊山還要山坡要恢復啊這是第一個危機才能夠化解要不然的話這個危機就存在第二個\n\n13:48.666 --> 14:15.538\n要針對山坡地你若去做光電或者再生能源開發案你現在要規範這個廠商你若被你撤銷以後他要怎麼去恢復原狀保障人民安全這才是你現在要做的吧經濟保定我們會依法行事第一個我們經濟部是政府的一環我們所有的工作都必須要在依法的這個範圍裡面去做事情\n\n14:16.938 --> 14:40.356\n剛才委員所指正的這個部分有一部分已經超過這個時效了所以我們要來考慮怎麼樣子才能夠找到一個合法的這個框架之間來進行超過時效危機存在嘛對不對大家都有共識嘛民眾來陳情嘛這已經媒體跟網路上已經炸開了\n\n14:41.584 --> 14:48.147\n我們要幫人民解決問題不要讓悲劇產生幫人民解決問題是我們的責任幫人民解決問題是我們的責任這一點你放心我們不會我們存在的價值就是幫人民解決問題事實上不只是我的要求\n\n15:00.200 --> 15:24.369\n這應該是絕大部分的民眾的要求這個也是附近的居民明確的這個要求避免小林村、媚村的事件重演請盡快完成撤銷這個案子的第一期、第二期的綽設許可第二個這個三光電板不只要撤掉要趕快恢復原狀樹該種的要種上去水土保持要做好這樣才能夠避免悲劇產生\n\n15:25.540 --> 15:32.033\n好王定加油啦加油啦這個要跟時間賽跑這個不能偷啦好不好謝謝好謝謝主席坐一下\n\n","segments":[{"start":18.349,"end":43.456,"text":"請郭部長郭部長博定你都說你很注重安全我們繼續來搶救人命就是高雄大樹區的51公頃的山坡地山被鏟平了樹被砍掉了"},{"start":44.619,"end":69.938,"text":"我看你們昨天發了一個重要的新聞說這個案子啊你們已經依法廢止了光電許可事實上我去查你們廢止的應該是一小部分施工的許可吧你們廢止的是哪一部分如果照現在你們這樣的一個處分方式"},{"start":71.361,"end":85.641,"text":"絕大部分的光電板是不是還是會留在那邊山還是沒辦法恢復原狀還是存在它的危險性呢你們昨天發了新聞說你們廢止了光電許可是哪一部分"},{"start":87.284,"end":116.062,"text":"我請我們副署長跟你報告各位報告我們廢紙的部分是他部分的施工許可對嘛那紙廢紙的一小部分這個現在最嚴重的是什麼山已經被鏟平了然後這個光電板我去查這個光電板一共有一期跟二期20萬片的光電板潑在被鏟平的這個山上要20萬片喔"},{"start":117.264,"end":144.555,"text":"第二個它的發電量第一期發電量30兆瓦第二期15兆瓦一共加起來45兆瓦現在民眾要的真相是什麼危險性存在啊結果你們做了一個動作事實上的真相是高雄市政府只做了第二期的水土計畫許可的廢止只做了這個動作而已"},{"start":146.394,"end":174.392,"text":"那你們啊 只做了一小部分的施工許可那就會造成剛剛講的你大部分的光電板還是留在那裡嘛第二個 你的發電還是大部分還是存在嘛更嚴重的 山還是被鏟平了 沒有恢復原狀 對不對危機還是在啊我們不是在搶救人命嗎 白天你說要注意安全嗎現在是附近的居住的民眾都已經來陳前開了記者會了說不要重演小林村 媚村"},{"start":175.743,"end":183.607,"text":"這樣一個悲劇你們怎麼會只有做這個啊你們是在打假球嗎這樣怎麼對得起人民啊那危機來了怎麼辦發生了悲劇怎麼辦"},{"start":187.596,"end":208.087,"text":"根委員報告 其他的部分因為我們本來就在裁罰我們現在密切的在跟市政府監督他基本上我們會用最嚴格的標準來看這個事情他現在也陸陸續續在改善當中依其水保部分市政府也正在處理當中 李政補充"},{"start":209.454,"end":218.52,"text":"真相就是山已經被產平了然後剛講的20萬片的光電板大部分還是存在嘛然後繼續要發電嘛 是不是"},{"start":223.527,"end":249.561,"text":"那危機還是在 博定你是要解決不是 報告委員你們大動作發的這個新聞我們這個經濟部啊這個是依法來做事情那如果對方在這個寄存的這個這個案場裡面啊它是依法設置的那麼再不違反這個所謂的山坡山坡地的這個保育水土保持的這一些規範的話"},{"start":251.65,"end":277.071,"text":"我相信我們也沒有法條法規來撤銷或者是要他還原來的這個部分因為水土保守法會證明他對這個所謂的人身安全是沒有這個危害危機就產生了前陣子一場暴雨滾滾的泥流就衝下來所以民眾才非常緊急的"},{"start":278.639,"end":301.292,"text":"陳情開了記者會還有立委已經到現場去探勘嘛危機是現在進行式而且現在紅台帝又極端企劃我一直在提醒你它是現在進行式你們說要趕快處理結果現在發現你們是打假球啊你要徹底去解決問題委員我們沒有打假球你講這樣的這個說法是不是有一點過分來部長我們來看我們用實際的狀況來看你看左邊這個是開發前"},{"start":306.274,"end":320.7,"text":"一片利益釀然的這個土地是一個山坡 上面是樹利益釀然的 右邊現在被鏟平了水土保持又沒做好多觸目驚心的這個畫面你都說合法啊 來大家知道嗎"},{"start":324.841,"end":340.791,"text":"依照建築技術規則建築的這個規定在第262條山坡地有下列各種情形之一者不得開發就是它的坡度是陡峭的超過30%這個坡度超過30%就不能開發喔我去查你看"},{"start":345.578,"end":366.112,"text":"我們坡度啊在三級以下的就是30%三級以下的大概只有47.16有四級坡以上的還有四級坡的這個有危險的超過一半耶這多危險的事情啊這不是一個違法的一個操作嗎然後現在危機已經在產生中啊"},{"start":366.909,"end":386.599,"text":"你發現危險就趕快解決問題啊所以我們已經停止他再開發了嘛然後我們再來衡量哪一些東西會違反這個水保法哪一些會危害到這些安全我們會要求他恢復嘛這個事情委員不能這樣說就是說我們都沒在處理事情"},{"start":389.703,"end":410.332,"text":"處理不到十分之一啦你的籌設許可也沒有匯值 對不對現在更嚴重的喔 我跟他講真相是什麼真相是什麼來我們看看那個圖第一期已經施工完成了他現在已經是在試營運的狀況欸你台電之前都已經允許他可以發電了欸"},{"start":414.687,"end":418.01,"text":"那你今天做了這個許可你認為說這個發電是不應該的就對了違法怎麼可以發電呢而且存在危險性啊"},{"start":425.838,"end":439.784,"text":"如果他沒有違反三波保育法你不可以用這樣來扣這個問題為什麼沒有違法呢 現在是高雄市政府都已經去扒了不少 你們自己都去開罰了 保定有沒有違法你們都下去開罰 高雄市政府都已經扒了我們也有開罰他我們必須要依法依規來處理事情嘛"},{"start":453.829,"end":469.535,"text":"阿你現在叫我們怎麼樣 叫我們說這個馬上斷掉他嗎是不是 我們現在也斷了他的這個繼續的做法第一個 他越線去開發嘛 超過那個界線去開發嘛所以我們有處罰他嘛 我們不是沒有處罰他我們也處罰他了 也下了令了"},{"start":476.457,"end":503.5,"text":"那你在講說我們這個都沒有在處理這樣子對我們的公務同仁非常打假球我剛剛跟你講你處理這個問題講這個打假球這個是非常嚴重的指控啦那威脅就是一直存在你不要解決人民的這個擔心我們當然要解決安全的問題啊但是解決事情也有一個解決方案你的解決方案就是第一期的光電板全部都在那裡還是存在的"},{"start":504.827,"end":525.007,"text":"第二次你只做了一小部分的施工許可的費值你做不到十分之一耶民眾現在清楚看到你的危機存在你的一小部分啦你的一小部分可能是整個事情的一大部分我們已經禁止他三分之一不准再繼續做下去了"},{"start":526.158,"end":549.634,"text":"有三分之一嗎 這個有餘地那三分之二 三分之二之前就是就是下雨 暴雨 危機基本是存在嘛那你的三分之二你要留著是吧你承認三分之二要留著你現在跟前面講我沒有講說三分之二要留著那個是你在套這件事情喔報告委員 請你在這個地方質詢的時候不要用話術"},{"start":550.535,"end":576.169,"text":"不是畫素 你說還有畫素 你剛才不是清楚有20萬片的光電板 太陽能光電板保證說三分之二留著嗎他現在設置的只有七成而已哪來的三分之二啊對啊 你剛才不是說三分之一七成跟三分之二那是你講的喔七成跟三分之二差多少就是你講的七成他是第一階段 你講的三十這個兆瓦的七成喔"},{"start":577.779,"end":606.757,"text":"整個的 我們允許他的大概只有一半而已人命關天 危機是現在起第一個 我們現在清楚跟民眾講依照經濟部跟高雄市政府打假球目前清清楚楚這是第一期幾乎是沒有處理的第一期違法事實非常的明確第一個 越縣區開發違反水土保持法 他們都開罰了可是他們現在經過這樣之後還把它 光電板還留在那邊山也沒有要恢復"},{"start":608.055,"end":627.192,"text":"所以就保持也沒辦法做了危機還是存在的這個就是現在的真相這是最嚴重的問題所以我今天為什麼要問這個問題你要繼續趕快怎麼確保讓民眾我們在努力喔我們在努力你一天裡面要求我全部把它恢復你認為可能嗎所有的事情總是循序漸進的嘛"},{"start":628.453,"end":649.996,"text":"是不是 你怎麼可以講說可能要100天的這個已經它造成今天的現象兩年了你叫我一天之內把它恢復我沒有辦法變這個魔法你講的這個魔法這個做法我們是做不到的啦我們要講一個更重要的內幕我們已經禁止它繼續再做下去了我們也要馬上的"},{"start":651.092,"end":675.248,"text":"在安全有問題的部分趕快來這個緊急的來做一些這個調適不是這樣你今天在這邊講說我們什麼打假球打假球這個字是非常嚴重的我聽你不要講話術啦就是危機確實存在嘛對不對你要幫人民解決問題我們是在幫人民解決問題這是第一個好我就要講今天一個重要的內幕來"},{"start":677.345,"end":705.431,"text":"陳其邁都急著要切割了部長還不曉得要切割你還一直在背書這個危機這個開發的業者叫做聰明的家老闆跟林瑞峰這個大家到監察院上面公報上面查都查得到這個把山鏟平把樹砍掉的這個業者聰明的家老闆林瑞峰在110年的11月"},{"start":706.894,"end":731.66,"text":"捐了政治獻金給陳其邁 十萬塊捐給蔡奇商兩萬 何欣淳 八萬塊我下面要放大給大家看 陳其邁111年高雄市長選舉的時候林瑞豐 聰明的家 把三產坪的業者捐了十萬塊隔了一個月 他就拿到了開發許可"},{"start":734.913,"end":755.588,"text":"這個如果到柯文哲或其他案子這就是收賄啊 貪污收賄罪啊陳其邁很聰明的他馬上就急著趕快要切割了所以他趕快想了一部分的這個處分還有一些許可他要停可是部長你現在還不想要切割"},{"start":757.233,"end":778.19,"text":"危機垂死存在可能有土石流來居民講的是什麼小林村的妹村可能重演欸人命關掉而且現代進行是你不去處理人家都知道自己要切割了你到現在今天做了一個小部分的廢止危機是存在嘛我來我具體做兩個要求啦"},{"start":780.933,"end":798.869,"text":"你現在不是只有廢止那小部分你現在應該廢止的是什麼整個開發案第一期跟第二期的綽設席可而且要求廠商把這個山坡地要恢復到原狀這個危機才會化除啊民眾是不是要等這個民眾來陳情就是要求這個嘛"},{"start":803.663,"end":827.534,"text":"因為它有危機嘛一百應該這樣做嘛結果你一小部分的施工許可你要的是第一期跟第二期的籌算許可整個拿掉包括你說的會存在那些光電板在第一期的當然要拆掉啊恢復原狀啊山還要山坡要恢復啊這是第一個危機才能夠化解要不然的話這個危機就存在第二個"},{"start":828.666,"end":855.538,"text":"要針對山坡地你若去做光電或者再生能源開發案你現在要規範這個廠商你若被你撤銷以後他要怎麼去恢復原狀保障人民安全這才是你現在要做的吧經濟保定我們會依法行事第一個我們經濟部是政府的一環我們所有的工作都必須要在依法的這個範圍裡面去做事情"},{"start":856.938,"end":880.356,"text":"剛才委員所指正的這個部分有一部分已經超過這個時效了所以我們要來考慮怎麼樣子才能夠找到一個合法的這個框架之間來進行超過時效 危機存在嘛 對不對大家都有共識嘛 民眾來陳情嘛這已經媒體跟網路上已經炸開了"},{"start":881.584,"end":888.147,"text":"我們要幫人民解決問題不要讓悲劇產生幫人民解決問題是我們的責任幫人民解決問題是我們的責任這一點你放心我們不會我們存在的價值就是幫人民解決問題事實上不只是我的要求"},{"start":900.2,"end":924.369,"text":"這應該是絕大部分的民眾的要求這個也是附近的居民明確的這個要求避免小林村、媚村的事件重演請盡快完成撤銷這個案子的第一期、第二期的綽設許可第二個 這個三光電板不只要撤掉要趕快恢復原狀樹該種的要種上去 水土保持要做好這樣才能夠避免悲劇產生"},{"start":925.54,"end":932.033,"text":"好 王定加油啦 加油啦這個要跟時間賽跑 這個不能偷啦好不好 謝謝好 謝謝主席坐一下"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":319,"blocks":[["張委員啓楷：（10時11分）請郭部長。"],["主席：請郭部長。"],["郭部長智輝：委員早。"],["張委員啓楷：部長，你剛剛說你很注重安全，我們繼續來搶救人命，就是高雄大樹區51公頃的山坡地，山被剷平了、樹被砍掉了，我看你們昨天發了一個重要的新聞稿說這個案子你們已經依法廢止了光電許可，事實上我去查，你們廢止的應該只是一小部分施工的許可吧！你們廢止的是哪一部分？如果照現在你們這樣的一個處分方式，絕大部分的光電板是不是還是會留在那邊？山還是沒辦法恢復原狀，還是存在它的危險性呢？你們昨天發了新聞稿說你們廢止了光電許可，是哪一部分？"],["郭部長智輝：我請副署長跟你報告。"],["吳副署長志偉：跟委員報告，我們廢止的是它部分的施工許可。"],["張委員啓楷：對嘛！你們只廢止了一小部分，現在最嚴重的是什麼？山已經被剷平了。部長，我去查，這個光電板一共有一期跟二期，20萬片的光電板鋪在被剷平的山上，要20萬片喔！第二個，它的發電量，第一期是30兆瓦，第二期是15兆瓦，一共加起來是45兆瓦，現在民眾要的真相是什麼？危險性存在啊！結果你們做了一個動作，事實上的真相是，高雄市政府只做了第二期水土計畫許可的廢止，只做了這個動作而已，然後你們只做了一小部分的施工許可廢止，那就會造成剛剛講的，大部分的光電板還是留在那裡；其次，發電還是大部分存在嘛！更嚴重的是，山還是被剷平了，沒有恢復原狀，對不對？危機還是在啊！不是在搶救人命嗎？部長，你說要注意安全，現在是附近的居住民眾都已經來陳情、開記者會了，說不要重演小林村被滅村這樣的一個悲劇，現在又是颱風季，你們怎麼會只有做這個呢？你們在打假球嗎？這樣怎麼對得起人民啊？危機來了怎麼辦？發生了悲劇怎麼辦？"],["吳副署長志偉：跟委員報告，其他的部分因為我們本來就在裁罰，我們目前密切在跟市政府去監督它，基本上我們會用最嚴格的標準來看這個事情，它現在也陸陸續續在改善當中。至於一期水保的部分，市政府也正在處理當中，做以上補充。"],["張委員啓楷：真相就是山已經被剷平了，然後我剛剛講的，20萬片的光電板大部分還是存在嘛！它繼續要發電嘛，是不是？危機還是在，部長，你是要解決……"],["郭部長智輝：報告委員……"],["張委員啓楷：你們大動作發了這個新聞稿，你們要解決，對不對？"],["郭部長智輝：經濟部是依法來做事情，如果對方在既存的案場裡面，它是依法設置的，那麼在不違反所謂的山坡地保育、水土保持這一些規範的話，我相信我們也沒有法條、法規來撤銷，或者是要它返還原來的這個部分，因為水土保持法會證明它對所謂的人身安全是沒有危害，而你現在講的……"],["張委員啓楷：部長，危機就產生了嘛！前陣子的一場暴雨，滾滾的泥流就已經沖下來，所以民眾才非常緊急地陳情、開了記者會，還有立委已經到現場去探勘，危機是現在進行式，而且現在是颱風季，又有極端氣候。我一直在提醒你，它是現在進行式，你們說要趕快處理，結果現在發現你們是打假球啊！你們要就澈底去解決問題……"],["郭部長智輝：委員，我們沒有打假球，你講這樣的說法是不是有一點過分？"],["張委員啓楷：部長，我們用實際的狀況來看，你看左邊這個是開發前，一片綠意盎然的土地，是一個山坡，上面是樹，綠意盎然的；而右邊，現在被剷平了，水土保持又沒做好，多怵目驚心的畫面，這樣你們說是合法？大家知道嗎？依照建築技術規則建築設計施工編第二百六十二條的規定，山坡地有下列各款情形之一者，不得開發建築，如坡度陡峭者，坡度超過30%就不能開發，我去查，坡度在三級（30%）以下的大概只有47.16%，而四級坡以上及四級坡有危險的超過一半耶！這是多麼危險的事情啊！這不是一個違法的操作嗎？現在危機已經在產生中啊！你發現危險要趕快去解決問題啊！"],["郭部長智輝：所以我們已經停止它再開發了嘛！"],["張委員啓楷：對嘛！所以……"],["郭部長智輝：然後我們再來衡量哪一些東西會違反水保法、哪一些會危害到安全，我們會要求它恢復，委員不能這樣說我們都沒有在處理事情。"],["張委員啓楷：你們處理不到十分之一啦！它的籌設許可也沒有廢止，對不對？現在更嚴重的是，我跟你講真相是什麼，我們看一下那個圖，第一期已經施工完成了，它現在已經是在試營運的狀況，台電之前都允許它可以發電了耶！你們做了這個許可，現在在開發……"],["郭部長智輝：你認為這個發電是不應該的就對了？"],["張委員啓楷：它違法，怎麼可以發電呢？而且存在危險性啊！部長，你還笑？"],["郭部長智輝：如果它沒有違反山坡保育法……"],["張委員啓楷：人命關天的事情，你還笑？不去解決問題！"],["郭部長智輝：如果它沒有違反山坡保育法，你不能用這樣來處理這個問題，我們要就事論事。"],["張委員啓楷：部長，為什麼沒有違法呢？現在高雄市政府都已經去裁罰了……"],["郭部長智輝：違法的事情我們已經禁止它繼續再做了嘛！"],["張委員啓楷：你們自己都去開罰了，部長，有沒有違法？你們都下去開罰，高雄市政府都已經罰了，怎麼沒有違法呢？"],["郭部長智輝：我們也有開罰它，我們必須要依法、依規來處理事情嘛！你現在叫我們怎麼樣？叫我們馬上斷掉它嗎，是不是？我們現在也斷了它繼續再做嘛！"],["張委員啓楷：它違法在什麼地方？第一個，它越線去開發，超過那個界線去開發……"],["郭部長智輝：所以我們有處罰它嘛！"],["張委員啓楷：第二個，違反了水土保持法，所以高雄市政府七度開罰。"],["郭部長智輝：我們不是沒有處罰它啊！我們也處罰它了，也下令了，你講我們都沒有在處理，這樣子對我們的公務同仁是非常不……"],["張委員啓楷：部長，你們就是打假球，我剛剛跟你講了，你處理這個問題不到十分之一！"],["郭部長智輝：你講打假球是非常嚴重的指控！"],["張委員啓楷：危險就是一直存在，你沒有解決人民對安全的擔心。"],["郭部長智輝：我們當然要解決安全的問題，但是解決事情也有個順序嘛！"],["張委員啓楷：你的解決方案就是，第一期的光電板全部都在那裡，還是存在的；而第二期，你們只做了一小部分的施工許可廢止，做不到十分之一耶！"],["郭部長智輝：什麼叫做……"],["張委員啓楷：民眾現在清楚地看到，第一個，危機存在，山還是剷平的，沒有恢復！"],["郭部長智輝：你的一小部分可能是整個事情的一大部分啦！"],["張委員啓楷：部長，我問你……"],["郭部長智輝：我們已經禁止它三分之一不准再繼續做下去了。"],["張委員啓楷：有三分之一嗎？這個有疑慮。第二個……"],["郭部長智輝：而且它現在預計的30%，它也……"],["張委員啓楷：那三分之二之前就是下雨、暴雨，危機就是存在嘛！三分之二你們要留著，是不是？你的意思就是你承認三分之二要留著，你現在跟全民講，第一期三分之二的光電板還要存在嗎？"],["郭部長智輝：我沒有說三分之二要留著，那個是你在套這件事情。"],["張委員啓楷：部長，剛才是你說的……"],["郭部長智輝：報告委員，請你在這個地方質詢的時候，不要用話術。"],["張委員啓楷：不是話術，你說的才是話術，剛才不是說有20萬片的太陽能光電板？部長說三分之二留著嘛。"],["郭部長智輝：它現在設置的只有七成而已，哪來的三分之二？"],["張委員啓楷：對啊，你剛才不是說三分之二？七成跟三分之二差多少？"],["郭部長智輝：那是你講的。"],["張委員啓楷：七成跟三分之二差多少？"],["郭部長智輝：什麼？"],["張委員啓楷：就是你說的七成……"],["郭部長智輝：第一階段，你講的30兆瓦的七成，我們允許它的大概只有一半而已。"],["張委員啓楷：部長，現在人命關天，危機是現在進行式。"],["郭部長智輝：人命關天，我們都同意。"],["張委員啓楷：第一個，我們現在清楚跟民眾講，經濟部跟高雄市政府打假球，目前清清楚楚，就是第一期幾乎是沒有處理的，第一期違法事實非常的明確。第一個，越線去開發。"],["郭部長智輝：所有的事情……"],["張委員啓楷：第二個，違反水土保持法，他們都開罰了，可是他們現在經過這樣之後，還把光電板留在那邊，山也沒有要恢復，水土保持也沒有做好，危機還是存在的，這個就是現在的真相，這是最嚴重的問題，所以我今天為什麼要問這個問題？你要繼續趕快看怎麼確保，讓民眾安全。"],["郭部長智輝：我們在努力，你要求我在1天裡面全部把它恢復，你認為可能嗎？所有的事情總是循序漸進的，是不是？它造成今天的現象已經2年了，你怎麼可以講說可能要100天才能恢復的，你叫我1天之內把它恢復，我沒有辦法變這個魔法。"],["張委員啓楷：要處理危機，危機隨時會來！"],["郭部長智輝：你講的這個魔法的作法，我們是做不到的。"],["張委員啓楷：我再講一個更重要的內幕。"],["郭部長智輝：我們已經禁止他繼續再做下去了，我們也要馬上在安全有問題的部分，趕快緊急來做一些調適，不是你現在在這邊跟我講說什麼我們打假球，打假球這個字是非常嚴重的指正。"],["張委員啓楷：部長，不要講話術，危機確實存在，對不對？你要幫人民解決問題，化解危機，這是第一個。"],["郭部長智輝：我們是在幫人民解決問題。"],["張委員啓楷：好，我現在要講一個重要的內幕，陳其邁都急著要切割了，部長還不曉得要切割，你還一直在背書這個危機。這個開發的業者叫做聰明的家，老闆叫做林瑞豐，這個大家到監察院公報上面查都查得到，這個把山剷平，把樹砍掉的業者，聰明的家老闆林瑞豐在110年11月捐了政治獻金，給陳其邁10萬塊，捐給蔡其昌2萬，何欣純8萬塊。我現在放大給大家看，陳其邁在111年高雄市長選舉的時候，林瑞豐的聰明的家，把山剷平的這個業者捐了10萬塊，隔了1個月，他就拿到了開發許可，這如果照柯文哲或照其他案子，這就是收賄，貪污收賄罪啊！陳其邁很聰明的，他馬上就急著要趕快切割了，所以他趕快講了，一部分的處分還有一些許可他要停，可是部長你現在還不曉得要切割。危機隨時存在，如果有土石流來，居民講的是什麼？小林村的滅村可能重演欸！人命關天，而且是現在進行式，你不去處理！人家都知道急著要切割了，你到現在，今天只做了一小部分的廢止，危機還是存在嘛！","部長，我具體做兩個要求，你現在不是只有廢止那一小部分，你現在應該廢止的是什麼？整個開發案第一期跟第二期的籌設許可，而且要求廠商要把山坡地恢復原狀，這樣危機才能化除啊！民眾是不是在等這個？民眾來陳情，就是要求這個嘛，因為它有危機，依法應該這樣做，結果你只做一小部分的施工許可廢止，你要做的是把第一期跟第二期的籌設許可整個拿掉，包括你說會存在的那些光電板，在第一期的，當然要拆掉，恢復原狀啊！山坡地要恢復啊！這是第一個，危機才能夠化解，要不然的話，這個危機一直存在。","第二個，針對山坡地，如果去做光電或者再生能源開發案，你現在要規範這個廠商如果被你撤銷以後，他要怎麼去恢復原狀，保障人民安全，這才是你現在要做的吧！部長，是不是？"],["郭部長智輝：我們會依法行事，第一個，我們經濟部是政府的一環，我們所有的工作都必須要在法的範圍以內去做事情。剛才委員所指正的這個部分，有一部分已經超過時效，所以我們要考慮，怎麼樣才能夠找到，在一個合法的框架之內來進行。"],["張委員啓楷：超過時效，危機存在嘛，對不對？大家都有共識，民眾來陳情，這已經在媒體跟網路上炸開了，我們要幫人民解決問題，不要讓悲劇產生，我一直在說……"],["郭部長智輝：幫人民解決問題是我們的責任。"],["張委員啓楷：這不是只有行政責任，還有刑事責任。"],["郭部長智輝：報告委員，幫人民解決問題是我們的責任，這一點你放心啦！我們存在的價值就是幫人民解決問題。"],["張委員啓楷：部長，事實上這不只是我的要求，這應該是絕大部分民眾的要求，這也是附近居民明確的要求，避免小林村滅村的事件重演，請儘快完成撤銷這個案子第一期、第二期的籌設許可。第二個，這座山的光電板不只要撤掉，還要趕快恢復原狀，樹該種的要種上去，水土保持要做好，這樣才能夠避免悲劇產生。部長，加油啦！這個要跟時間賽跑，不能拖啦！好不好？"],["郭部長智輝：謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝。","主席作以下宣告：因為劉主委身體不適，所以國發會由高仙桂副主委代表列席。","現在請陳亭妃委員做詢答。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":464,"meet_id":"委員會-11-3-19-17","speakers":["謝衣鳯","鄭正鈐","林岱樺","張嘉郡","張啓楷","陳亭妃","賴瑞隆","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","邱志偉","陳超明","黃國昌","楊瓊瓔","劉書彬","涂權吉","徐欣瑩","葉元之","蔡易餘","呂玉玲","邱議瑩","牛煦庭"],"page_start":397,"meetingDate":["2025-06-25"],"gazette_id":"1146401","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1146401_00009"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期經濟委員會第17次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請國家發展委員會主任委員、經濟部部長、農業部部長及中央銀行首長就「因應國際經貿情勢\n變化，如何協助我國產業面對台幣匯率及國際能源價格遽變」進行報告，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1146401_00008"}}}