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66.782, \"score\": 0.804}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 66.782, \"end\": 66.842, \"score\": 0.685}, {\"word\": \"些\", \"start\": 66.842, \"end\": 66.902, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"裝\"}, {\"word\": \"備\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 66.902, \"end\": 66.962, \"score\": 0.667}, {\"word\": \"調\"}, {\"word\": \"整\", \"start\": 66.962, \"end\": 67.082, \"score\": 0.833}, {\"word\": \"跟\", \"start\": 67.082, \"end\": 67.102, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"調\"}, {\"word\": \"效\", \"start\": 67.102, \"end\": 67.122, \"score\": 0.0}]}, {\"start\": 69.403, \"end\": 95.144, \"text\": \"那包含了一些屋內的必要的工程那再接續後面的潛水潛水的水深比較淺的潛水的測試我們潛水大概要潛水測試大概預期大概是50公尺50公尺的測試那在完成潛水的四行之後還會再進入到深水那深水大概會到我們要求標準的規範大概200公尺左右的部分200公尺是的\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 69.403, \"end\": 69.543, \"score\": 0.863}, {\"word\": \"包\", \"start\": 69.543, \"end\": 69.663, \"score\": 0.841}, {\"word\": \"含\", \"start\": 69.663, \"end\": 69.743, \"score\": 0.767}, {\"word\": \"了\", \"start\": 69.743, \"end\": 69.843, 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\"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 90.58, \"end\": 91.201, \"score\": 0.966}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"要\", \"start\": 91.201, \"end\": 91.401, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"求\", \"start\": 91.401, \"end\": 91.721, \"score\": 0.938}, {\"word\": \"標\"}, {\"word\": \"準\", \"start\": 91.721, \"end\": 91.841, \"score\": 0.833}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 91.841, \"end\": 91.941, \"score\": 0.979}, {\"word\": \"規\"}, {\"word\": \"範\"}, {\"word\": \"大\", \"start\": 91.941, \"end\": 92.342, \"score\": 0.85}, {\"word\": \"概\", \"start\": 92.342, \"end\": 92.842, \"score\": 0.896}, {\"word\": \"2\"}, {\"word\": \"0\"}, {\"word\": \"0\"}, {\"word\": \"公\", \"start\": 92.842, \"end\": 93.082, \"score\": 0.958}, {\"word\": \"尺\", \"start\": 93.082, \"end\": 93.282, \"score\": 0.901}, {\"word\": \"左\", \"start\": 93.282, \"end\": 93.482, \"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"右\", \"start\": 93.482, \"end\": 93.623, \"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 93.623, \"end\": 93.723, \"score\": 0.971}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 93.723, \"end\": 94.163, \"score\": 0.908}, {\"word\": \"分\", \"start\": 94.163, \"end\": 94.343, \"score\": 0.889}, {\"word\": \"2\"}, {\"word\": \"0\"}, {\"word\": \"0\"}, {\"word\": \"公\", \"start\": 94.343, \"end\": 94.663, \"score\": 0.939}, {\"word\": \"尺\", \"start\": 94.663, \"end\": 94.944, \"score\": 0.928}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 94.944, \"end\": 95.124, \"score\": 0.888}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 95.124, \"end\": 95.144, \"score\": 0.003}]}, {\"start\": 95.904, \"end\": 104.487, \"text\": \"完成這三樣的測試中間還有加上一些比較必要的作戰的測試來完成全部的海上測試作戰的測試也包含說我們在整個潛艇上面的武器裝備的測試\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"完\", \"start\": 95.904, \"end\": 96.044, \"score\": 0.68}, {\"word\": \"成\", \"start\": 96.044, \"end\": 96.364, \"score\": 0.751}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"三\", \"start\": 96.364, \"end\": 96.825, \"score\": 0.867}, {\"word\": \"樣\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 96.825, \"end\": 97.605, \"score\": 0.807}, {\"word\": \"測\"}, {\"word\": \"試\"}, {\"word\": \"中\", \"start\": 97.605, \"end\": 98.305, \"score\": 0.867}, {\"word\": \"間\"}, {\"word\": \"還\"}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 98.305, \"end\": 98.405, \"score\": 0.71}, {\"word\": \"加\", \"start\": 98.405, \"end\": 98.585, \"score\": 0.901}, {\"word\": \"上\", \"start\": 98.585, \"end\": 98.765, \"score\": 0.87}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 98.765, \"end\": 98.885, \"score\": 0.934}, {\"word\": \"些\", \"start\": 98.885, \"end\": 99.465, \"score\": 0.981}, {\"word\": \"比\", \"start\": 99.465, \"end\": 99.485, \"score\": 0.003}, {\"word\": \"較\"}, {\"word\": \"必\", \"start\": 99.485, \"end\": 99.585, \"score\": 0.986}, {\"word\": \"要\", \"start\": 99.585, \"end\": 99.786, \"score\": 0.805}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 99.786, \"end\": 101.006, \"score\": 0.909}, {\"word\": \"作\", \"start\": 101.006, \"end\": 101.306, \"score\": 0.805}, {\"word\": \"戰\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 101.306, \"end\": 102.487, \"score\": 0.716}, {\"word\": \"測\"}, {\"word\": \"試\"}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"完\", \"start\": 102.487, \"end\": 102.667, \"score\": 0.736}, {\"word\": \"成\", \"start\": 102.667, \"end\": 102.847, \"score\": 0.787}, {\"word\": \"全\", \"start\": 102.847, \"end\": 103.027, \"score\": 0.873}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 103.027, \"end\": 103.107, \"score\": 0.799}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 103.107, \"end\": 103.127, \"score\": 0.001}, {\"word\": \"海\", \"start\": 103.127, \"end\": 103.247, \"score\": 0.833}, {\"word\": \"上\", \"start\": 103.247, \"end\": 103.267, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"測\"}, {\"word\": \"試\"}, {\"word\": \"作\", \"start\": 103.267, \"end\": 103.287, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"戰\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 103.287, \"end\": 103.307, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"測\"}, {\"word\": \"試\"}, {\"word\": \"也\", \"start\": 103.307, \"end\": 103.487, \"score\": 0.64}, {\"word\": \"包\", \"start\": 103.487, \"end\": 103.607, \"score\": 0.625}, {\"word\": \"含\", \"start\": 103.607, \"end\": 103.627, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"說\"}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 103.627, \"end\": 103.647, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 103.647, \"end\": 104.007, \"score\": 0.785}, {\"word\": \"整\", \"start\": 104.007, \"end\": 104.047, \"score\": 0.495}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"潛\"}, {\"word\": \"艇\"}, {\"word\": \"上\", \"start\": 104.047, \"end\": 104.127, \"score\": 0.795}, {\"word\": \"面\", \"start\": 104.127, \"end\": 104.187, \"score\": 0.381}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 104.187, \"end\": 104.207, \"score\": 0.001}, {\"word\": \"武\", \"start\": 104.207, \"end\": 104.347, \"score\": 0.727}, {\"word\": \"器\", \"start\": 104.347, \"end\": 104.467, \"score\": 0.66}, {\"word\": \"裝\"}, {\"word\": \"備\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 104.467, \"end\": 104.487, \"score\": 0.986}, {\"word\": \"測\"}, {\"word\": \"試\"}]}, {\"start\": 112.31, \"end\": 132.266, \"text\": \"那我們預期從因為這個最近6月17號開始我們在節點上面的安排從6月17號那要經過您剛講的幾個第一個就是我們是出港了嘛在這個出潛然後再來是出潛測試嘛深潛測試嘛然後這個戰術的測試武器測試大概這個幾個海上測試的階段那我們預期目前預期的這個節點大概在海上測試完畢我們是規劃在什麼樣的時候\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 112.31, \"end\": 112.49, \"score\": 0.802}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 112.49, \"end\": 112.891, \"score\": 0.808}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"預\"}, {\"word\": \"期\", \"start\": 112.891, \"end\": 113.711, \"score\": 0.848}, {\"word\": \"從\"}, {\"word\": \"因\", \"start\": 113.711, \"end\": 114.412, \"score\": 0.906}, {\"word\": \"為\"}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"最\", \"start\": 114.412, \"end\": 114.572, \"score\": 0.962}, {\"word\": \"近\", \"start\": 114.572, \"end\": 114.832, \"score\": 0.89}, {\"word\": \"6\"}, {\"word\": \"月\", \"start\": 114.832, \"end\": 115.833, \"score\": 0.857}, {\"word\": \"1\"}, {\"word\": \"7\"}, {\"word\": \"號\"}, {\"word\": \"開\"}, {\"word\": \"始\", \"start\": 115.833, \"end\": 116.313, \"score\": 0.952}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 116.313, 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0.813}, {\"word\": \"測\"}, {\"word\": \"試\"}, {\"word\": \"完\", \"start\": 131.866, \"end\": 131.886, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"畢\"}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 131.886, \"end\": 131.906, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 131.906, \"end\": 131.966, \"score\": 0.417}, {\"word\": \"規\"}, {\"word\": \"劃\"}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 131.966, \"end\": 132.126, \"score\": 0.675}, {\"word\": \"什\", \"start\": 132.126, \"end\": 132.226, \"score\": 0.796}, {\"word\": \"麼\"}, {\"word\": \"樣\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 132.226, \"end\": 132.246, \"score\": 0.612}, {\"word\": \"時\"}, {\"word\": \"候\", \"start\": 132.246, \"end\": 132.266, \"score\": 0.0}]}, {\"start\": 142.074, \"end\": 158.202, \"text\": \"各位委員報告 那我們原先的部分的整個期程規劃是在九月底 也就是九月三十會要做完成海上的測試那交件的時間是在十一月份 是依照合約上面 目前是這樣的規劃因為要問這個問題的原因在於我們在預算討論的時候 關於凍結的部分\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"各\", \"start\": 142.074, \"end\": 142.174, \"score\": 0.798}, {\"word\": \"位\", \"start\": 142.174, \"end\": 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等於是它的一個就是說它的建造款已經開始建造團隊的時候所以分成初期簽約的2億元以及後續的另外大概17點多大概18億的這個船廠的建造的費用兩個部分對吧那我們現在已經目前就是簽約了兩艘這個後續艦那這兩艘後續艦目前簽約了但是還沒有去做支付嘛是的那沒有去做支付的原因是因為\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"1\"}, {\"word\": \"7\"}, {\"word\": \"億\"}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 307.565, \"end\": 307.966, \"score\": 0.932}, {\"word\": \"台\", \"start\": 307.966, \"end\": 308.146, \"score\": 0.739}, {\"word\": \"船\", \"start\": 308.146, \"end\": 308.366, \"score\": 0.781}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 308.366, \"end\": 308.566, \"score\": 0.888}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 308.566, \"end\": 309.407, \"score\": 0.948}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"等\", \"start\": 309.407, \"end\": 309.567, \"score\": 0.86}, {\"word\": \"於\", \"start\": 309.567, \"end\": 309.587, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 309.587, \"end\": 309.707, \"score\": 0.727}, {\"word\": \"它\", \"start\": 309.707, \"end\": 309.847, \"score\": 0.728}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 309.847, \"end\": 309.967, \"score\": 0.954}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 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0.968}, {\"word\": \"無\", \"start\": 556.28, \"end\": 556.3, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"誤\"}]}, {\"start\": 557.575, \"end\": 576.145, \"text\": \"現在就是說有關那個簽約的部分我們還是希望就是說這個台船這個可以他跟主要的裝備的次合約商來進行簽約那這個部分還是需要有一些經費的動資對啊那所以說海上測試之後你們會送結凍案進來嗎\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"現\"}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 557.575, \"end\": 557.675, \"score\": 0.778}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 557.675, \"end\": 557.835, \"score\": 0.949}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 557.835, \"end\": 558.215, \"score\": 0.874}, {\"word\": \"說\"}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 558.215, \"end\": 558.596, \"score\": 0.924}, {\"word\": \"關\"}, {\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 558.596, \"end\": 559.296, \"score\": 0.86}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"簽\"}, {\"word\": \"約\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 559.296, \"end\": 559.436, \"score\": 0.992}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 559.436, \"end\": 559.576, \"score\": 0.859}, {\"word\": \"分\", \"start\": 559.576, \"end\": 559.636, \"score\": 0.664}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 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{\"word\": \"主\", \"start\": 566.56, \"end\": 566.68, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"要\", \"start\": 566.68, \"end\": 566.8, \"score\": 0.95}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 566.8, \"end\": 567.401, \"score\": 0.851}, {\"word\": \"裝\"}, {\"word\": \"備\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 567.401, \"end\": 567.561, \"score\": 0.829}, {\"word\": \"次\", \"start\": 567.561, \"end\": 567.721, \"score\": 0.76}, {\"word\": \"合\", \"start\": 567.721, \"end\": 568.061, \"score\": 0.897}, {\"word\": \"約\"}, {\"word\": \"商\", \"start\": 568.061, \"end\": 569.242, \"score\": 0.901}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"進\"}, {\"word\": \"行\", \"start\": 569.242, \"end\": 569.962, \"score\": 0.9}, {\"word\": \"簽\"}, {\"word\": \"約\"}, {\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 569.962, \"end\": 570.382, \"score\": 0.772}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 570.382, \"end\": 570.482, \"score\": 0.8}, {\"word\": \"分\", \"start\": 570.482, \"end\": 570.782, \"score\": 0.761}, {\"word\": 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\"start\": 660.72, \"end\": 660.74, \"score\": 0.0}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:01,011 --> 00:00:02,934\n謝謝主席我們有請顧部長有請部長學員好\n\n2\n00:00:12,648 --> 00:00:41,630\n大家都很關心這個關於我們的海昆號以及呢我們前件的後續件的這個安排那包含是因為在這個延宕了77天之後呢終於能夠開始進行這個海上測試那其實這是邁出了非常的一大步那我們也希望接下來的海上測試可以成功所以呢第一個部分呢是不是可以先幫我們釐清接下來海上測試會需要的幾個階段以及我們目前進入到的節點是在哪一個部分呢\n\n3\n00:00:42,190 --> 00:01:07,122\n我是不是請海軍先生可以委員長海軍參謀長報告後續目前是在做海上測試的開始那我們會先做的是海上的服航測試那服航測試基本上會做大概三次到四次之間那實際會以驗測的一個標準有沒有達到在海上的這個服航測試之後會進入到我們會做一些裝備的調整跟調效\n\n4\n00:01:09,403 --> 00:01:35,144\n那包含了一些屋內的必要的工程那再接續後面的潛水潛水的水深比較淺的潛水的測試我們潛水大概要潛水測試大概預期大概是50公尺50公尺的測試那在完成潛水的四行之後還會再進入到深水那深水大概會到我們要求標準的規範大概200公尺左右的部分200公尺是的\n\n5\n00:01:35,904 --> 00:01:44,487\n完成這三樣的測試中間還有加上一些比較必要的作戰的測試來完成全部的海上測試作戰的測試也包含說我們在整個潛艇上面的武器裝備的測試\n\n6\n00:01:52,310 --> 00:02:12,266\n那我們預期從因為這個最近6月17號開始我們在節點上面的安排從6月17號那要經過您剛講的幾個第一個就是我們是出港了嘛在這個出潛然後再來是出潛測試嘛深潛測試嘛然後這個戰術的測試武器測試大概這個幾個海上測試的階段那我們預期目前預期的這個節點大概在海上測試完畢我們是規劃在什麼樣的時候\n\n7\n00:02:22,074 --> 00:02:38,202\n各位委員報告那我們原先的部分的整個期程規劃是在九月底也就是九月三十會要做完成海上的測試那交件的時間是在十一月份是依照合約上面目前是這樣的規劃因為要問這個問題的原因在於我們在預算討論的時候關於凍結的部分\n\n8\n00:02:43,604 --> 00:03:06,550\n那越早當然在安全的情況之下越早完成海上測試那我們就越早能夠來動之解凍相關的預算這我想呢是大家都這個包含是部長之前都有提到的就是說在海上測試成功之後那針對後續件的部分來做動之那後續件的部分我想要請問一下我們針對後續件的安排那目前的簽約情況為何\n\n9\n00:03:10,128 --> 00:03:32,557\n目前後續件的部分感謝大院的支持同意讓這個案子能夠繼續的全民來做推動那我們簽約部分已經跟台船在今年這個上半年已經完成了一個簽約的一個部分所以無論是說我們在立法院裡面有一個主決議就是說民進黨這邊提到的主決議它上面寫說呢要求這個19億5000元\n\n10\n00:03:34,818 --> 00:03:58,851\n那要把關然後呢依照預測這個檢驗航程然後呢要通過海上動態測試之後才能動之以確保所獲裝備符合台海防衛作戰區需求這邊的提案人是王定宇、林楚瑩、沈伯陽羅美、嶺辰冠廷、王逸川委員這是主決議的部分以及我們在大院所通過的是在整體的19億5000在20億左右的金額裡面凍結50%\n\n11\n00:04:04,674 --> 00:04:19,040\n那一個是主決議那一個是呢在大院裡面通過的這個預算的凍結這兩者之間對於後續件我們原本預定的簽約影響那目前在你們的進度上面是沒有受到影響的是嗎\n\n12\n00:04:20,723 --> 00:04:42,142\n抱怨我們簽約部分那臺船就可以跟他的次合約的一個必要的工裝備的這個工作上實施的他的細部的簽約可以把這個後續的商員跟相關的一個這個機具的整備先做一個確認那我們整個付款的時間會在這個今年完成海策之後再動用之後\n\n13\n00:04:42,642 --> 00:05:05,984\n那原先你們預計在初期的這個跟台船簽約,也就是走到這個階段的簽約款項,大概是預計需要多少錢?整個我們這個部分分為兩個部分,一個是簽約跟其他必要的大概是兩億,那台船的這個船廠的簽約,船廠的費用大概是17億,所以加起來是這兩個,您再說一下17億是什麼樣的一個費用?\n\n14\n00:05:07,565 --> 00:05:36,505\n17億是台船的一個等於是它的一個就是說它的建造款已經開始建造團隊的時候所以分成初期簽約的2億元以及後續的另外大概17點多大概18億的這個船廠的建造的費用兩個部分對吧那我們現在已經目前就是簽約了兩艘這個後續艦那這兩艘後續艦目前簽約了但是還沒有去做支付嘛是的那沒有去做支付的原因是因為\n\n15\n00:05:38,566 --> 00:05:47,590\n錢沒有到位沒有辦法動之還是因為要完成先前所說的我們要在海上測試通過以後使得動之的決定\n\n16\n00:05:49,818 --> 00:06:10,465\n我想這個部分就是我在之前已經說過了我們等海撤通過以後再來統治所以因為我今天想要釐清一件事情就是說我們事實上最後的結果主決議的部分是像部長您所說的它上面寫到要海上動態測試完成之後才能夠去動之這個是主決議\n\n17\n00:06:11,505 --> 00:06:38,312\n那另外一個部分是在這個大院裡面的表決表決的部分呢是只有動之50%也就是你們是有10億的經費是可以去運用的那剛才呢我們也聽到了在這個10億的經費裡面在跆拳目前我們需要的簽約款裡面是2億左右所以呢50%也就是10億裡面拿出2億來去做簽約款這個是完全足夠完全能夠供於簽約去做使用的\n\n18\n00:06:38,792 --> 00:07:07,303\n那後續簽約完之後呢那後續的這個台船的這個建廠才有碰到這個解凍50%預算的問題那根據我們現在目前跟台船簽約兩艘的情況其實凍結50%另外的10億那是綽綽有餘的但是因為包含是部長包含是您對全民的承諾主決議以及大家的一個共識希望讓海空號它能夠有一個海上測試完成之後的這個進度那才針對後續建的部分去做\n\n19\n00:07:08,203 --> 00:07:32,980\n款項的動值那這個部分是不是如我剛剛所陳述的這樣子有沒有什麼要補充的我想我們就這樣是期待就是說這個海上測試通過之後這個能夠立即動用那最主要就是說當時在經過委員會在組決議的這個當下呢最重要的就是說要確保我們立法院是支持後續建的建造\n\n20\n00:07:33,700 --> 00:07:56,807\n是的所以不管是逐決議或者是在這個大院裡面的所謂用凍結的方式這都代表了是支持後續建的這個繼續進行否則的話那也不會有還有10億的金額讓大家能夠在後續建的部分去簽約兩條那目前沒有凍結的原因只是因為當時的承諾而非因為目前沒有錢可以凍結這樣是這樣子的吧\n\n21\n00:07:59,418 --> 00:08:14,473\n我們就是持續來請求這個大約能夠支持後這個原型艦繼續能夠順利來推動然後過去艦的這個部分當然也希望日後大約能夠繼續支持海空號的部分已經全部的預算在文匯都是通過的吧\n\n22\n00:08:17,093 --> 00:08:36,663\n海昆號的部分是對啊沒有刪除任何一毛錢全面通過吧所以我們當然是全面支持海昆號不管是進行海策或者是接下來的整個交建的過程當中委員會如果不支持的話那就會有刪除或是凍結但是在海昆號的部分是沒有刪除任何一毛錢部長沒有錯吧\n\n23\n00:08:38,534 --> 00:08:49,483\n呃海昆號的呃原型件的部分原型件啊應該是後續件沒有刪除對對對原型件也沒有刪除啊是原型件也沒有刪除對原型件也沒有刪除嘛部長對吧\n\n24\n00:08:51,623 --> 00:09:16,300\n原型件沒有刪除是原型件沒有刪除那後續件的部分大院的版本是凍結50%代表說有10億可以去運用而簽約的款項也就是目前跟台船的簽約是2億那2億的部分沒有簽約的理由是在於說先前包含是民黨這邊的主決議以及部長您之前對大家的承諾我想確認的是這個事實是否無誤\n\n25\n00:09:17,575 --> 00:09:36,145\n現在就是說有關那個簽約的部分我們還是希望就是說這個台船這個可以他跟主要的裝備的次合約商來進行簽約那這個部分還是需要有一些經費的動資對啊那所以說海上測試之後你們會送結凍案進來嗎\n\n26\n00:09:38,336 --> 00:10:03,668\n那當然我們希望這個部分就是持續大院能夠支持好那所以我剛剛所陳述的部分就是說簽約跟後續的然後分成兩億十七億然後以及說你海上測試過後按照您之前的承諾送進來解凍然後尋求大概包含是大院或者是說我們委員會委員的支持這個部分那它就是入期的正在進行當中按照你們所設定的節點我這樣講有錯嗎\n\n27\n00:10:06,389 --> 00:10:19,855\n對,但是我這邊只是講就是說跟船長簽約的這些款項,事實上照我的理解應該是跟台船這邊是兩億,但事實上跟主要的次合約上的這個簽約的預付,事實上還是有相當的金額,當然當然,但是它是兩個階段的事情\n\n28\n00:10:26,078 --> 00:10:54,945\n所以你可以分開處理你也可以一起處理但是現在的狀況就是說呢你們要等你們先前承諾要等海上測試通過之後那才要動之嘛這個主決議上面我看王定宇林、楚英、沈培陽羅美玲、陳冠廷跟王逸川都是這樣寫的他們也沒有分成說有先簽約的款項或者是說後續的那就是它上面寫到是說全部的都要做完海測以後才能去動之使用所以你們目前是按照這份主決議的內容在進行當中嗎\n\n29\n00:10:56,354 --> 00:11:00,740\n所以我想我已經一再的說明,我們就是等海策通過之後再進行\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n1011\t2934\t謝謝主席 我們有請顧部長有請部長學員好\n12648\t41630\t大家都很關心這個關於我們的海昆號以及呢我們前件的後續件的這個安排那包含是因為在這個延宕了77天之後呢終於能夠開始進行這個海上測試那其實這是邁出了非常的一大步那我們也希望接下來的海上測試可以成功所以呢第一個部分呢是不是可以先幫我們釐清接下來海上測試會需要的幾個階段以及我們目前進入到的節點是在哪一個部分呢\n42190\t67122\t我是不是請海軍先生可以委員長海軍參謀長報告後續目前是在做海上測試的開始那我們會先做的是海上的服航測試那服航測試基本上會做大概三次到四次之間那實際會以驗測的一個標準有沒有達到在海上的這個服航測試之後會進入到我們會做一些裝備的調整跟調效\n69403\t95144\t那包含了一些屋內的必要的工程那再接續後面的潛水潛水的水深比較淺的潛水的測試我們潛水大概要潛水測試大概預期大概是50公尺50公尺的測試那在完成潛水的四行之後還會再進入到深水那深水大概會到我們要求標準的規範大概200公尺左右的部分200公尺是的\n95904\t104487\t完成這三樣的測試中間還有加上一些比較必要的作戰的測試來完成全部的海上測試作戰的測試也包含說我們在整個潛艇上面的武器裝備的測試\n112310\t132266\t那我們預期從因為這個最近6月17號開始我們在節點上面的安排從6月17號那要經過您剛講的幾個第一個就是我們是出港了嘛在這個出潛然後再來是出潛測試嘛深潛測試嘛然後這個戰術的測試武器測試大概這個幾個海上測試的階段那我們預期目前預期的這個節點大概在海上測試完畢我們是規劃在什麼樣的時候\n142074\t158202\t各位委員報告 那我們原先的部分的整個期程規劃是在九月底 也就是九月三十會要做完成海上的測試那交件的時間是在十一月份 是依照合約上面 目前是這樣的規劃因為要問這個問題的原因在於我們在預算討論的時候 關於凍結的部分\n163604\t186550\t那越早當然在安全的情況之下越早完成海上測試那我們就越早能夠來動之解凍相關的預算這我想呢是大家都這個包含是部長之前都有提到的就是說在海上測試成功之後那針對後續件的部分來做動之那後續件的部分我想要請問一下我們針對後續件的安排那目前的簽約情況為何\n190128\t212557\t目前後續件的部分感謝大院的支持同意讓這個案子能夠繼續的全民來做推動那我們簽約部分已經跟台船在今年這個上半年已經完成了一個簽約的一個部分所以無論是說我們在立法院裡面有一個主決議就是說民進黨這邊提到的主決議它上面寫說呢要求這個19億5000元\n214818\t238851\t那要把關然後呢依照預測這個檢驗航程然後呢要通過海上動態測試之後才能動之以確保所獲裝備符合台海防衛作戰區需求這邊的提案人是王定宇、林楚瑩、沈伯陽羅美、嶺辰冠廷、王逸川委員這是主決議的部分以及我們在大院所通過的是在整體的19億5000在20億左右的金額裡面凍結50%\n244674\t259040\t那一個是主決議那一個是呢在大院裡面通過的這個預算的凍結這兩者之間對於後續件我們原本預定的簽約影響那目前在你們的進度上面是沒有受到影響的是嗎\n260723\t282142\t抱怨我們簽約部分那臺船就可以跟他的次合約的一個必要的工裝備的這個工作上實施的他的細部的簽約可以把這個後續的商員跟相關的一個這個機具的整備先做一個確認那我們整個付款的時間會在這個今年完成海策之後再動用之後\n282642\t305984\t那原先你們預計在初期的這個跟台船簽約,也就是走到這個階段的簽約款項,大概是預計需要多少錢?整個我們這個部分分為兩個部分,一個是簽約跟其他必要的大概是兩億,那台船的這個船廠的簽約,船廠的費用大概是17億,所以加起來是這兩個,您再說一下17億是什麼樣的一個費用?\n307565\t336505\t17億是台船的一個 等於是它的一個就是說它的建造款已經開始建造團隊的時候所以分成初期簽約的2億元以及後續的另外大概17點多大概18億的這個船廠的建造的費用兩個部分對吧那我們現在已經目前就是簽約了兩艘這個後續艦那這兩艘後續艦目前簽約了但是還沒有去做支付嘛是的那沒有去做支付的原因是因為\n338566\t347590\t錢沒有到位沒有辦法動之還是因為要完成先前所說的我們要在海上測試通過以後使得動之的決定\n349818\t370465\t我想這個部分就是我在之前已經說過了我們等海撤通過以後再來統治所以因為我今天想要釐清一件事情就是說我們事實上最後的結果主決議的部分是像部長您所說的它上面寫到要海上動態測試完成之後才能夠去動之這個是主決議\n371505\t398312\t那另外一個部分是在這個大院裡面的表決表決的部分呢是只有動之50%也就是你們是有10億的經費是可以去運用的那剛才呢我們也聽到了在這個10億的經費裡面在跆拳目前我們需要的簽約款裡面是2億左右所以呢50%也就是10億裡面拿出2億來去做簽約款這個是完全足夠完全能夠供於簽約去做使用的\n398792\t427303\t那後續簽約完之後呢那後續的這個台船的這個建廠才有碰到這個解凍50%預算的問題那根據我們現在目前跟台船簽約兩艘的情況其實凍結50%另外的10億那是綽綽有餘的但是因為包含是部長包含是您對全民的承諾主決議以及大家的一個共識希望讓海空號它能夠有一個海上測試完成之後的這個進度那才針對後續建的部分去做\n428203\t452980\t款項的動值那這個部分是不是如我剛剛所陳述的這樣子有沒有什麼要補充的我想我們就這樣是期待就是說這個海上測試通過之後這個能夠立即動用那最主要就是說當時在經過委員會在組決議的這個當下呢最重要的就是說要確保我們立法院是支持後續建的建造\n453700\t476807\t是的所以不管是逐決議或者是在這個大院裡面的所謂用凍結的方式這都代表了是支持後續建的這個繼續進行否則的話那也不會有還有10億的金額讓大家能夠在後續建的部分去簽約兩條那目前沒有凍結的原因只是因為當時的承諾而非因為目前沒有錢可以凍結這樣是這樣子的吧\n479418\t494473\t我們就是持續來請求這個大約能夠支持後這個原型艦繼續能夠順利來推動然後過去艦的這個部分當然也希望日後大約能夠繼續支持海空號的部分已經全部的預算在文匯都是通過的吧\n497093\t516663\t海昆號的部分是對啊沒有刪除任何一毛錢全面通過吧所以我們當然是全面支持海昆號不管是進行海策或者是接下來的整個交建的過程當中委員會如果不支持的話那就會有刪除或是凍結但是在海昆號的部分是沒有刪除任何一毛錢部長沒有錯吧\n518534\t529483\t呃 海昆號的呃 原型件的部分原型件啊應該是後續件沒有刪除對對對原型件也沒有刪除啊是 原型件也沒有刪除對 原型件也沒有刪除嘛 部長對吧\n531623\t556300\t原型件沒有刪除是原型件沒有刪除那後續件的部分大院的版本是凍結50%代表說有10億可以去運用而簽約的款項也就是目前跟台船的簽約是2億那2億的部分沒有簽約的理由是在於說先前包含是民黨這邊的主決議以及部長您之前對大家的承諾我想確認的是這個事實是否無誤\n557575\t576145\t現在就是說有關那個簽約的部分我們還是希望就是說這個台船這個可以他跟主要的裝備的次合約商來進行簽約那這個部分還是需要有一些經費的動資對啊那所以說海上測試之後你們會送結凍案進來嗎\n578336\t603668\t那當然我們希望這個部分就是持續大院能夠支持好那所以我剛剛所陳述的部分就是說簽約跟後續的然後分成兩億十七億然後以及說你海上測試過後按照您之前的承諾送進來解凍然後尋求大概包含是大院或者是說我們委員會委員的支持這個部分那它就是入期的正在進行當中按照你們所設定的節點我這樣講有錯嗎\n606389\t619855\t對,但是我這邊只是講就是說跟船長簽約的這些款項,事實上照我的理解應該是跟台船這邊是兩億,但事實上跟主要的次合約上的這個簽約的預付,事實上還是有相當的金額,當然當然,但是它是兩個階段的事情\n626078\t654945\t所以你可以分開處理你也可以一起處理但是現在的狀況就是說呢你們要等你們先前承諾要等海上測試通過之後那才要動之嘛這個主決議上面我看王定宇林、楚英、沈培陽羅美玲、陳冠廷跟王逸川都是這樣寫的他們也沒有分成說有先簽約的款項或者是說後續的那就是它上面寫到是說全部的都要做完海測以後才能去動之使用所以你們目前是按照這份主決議的內容在進行當中嗎\n656354\t660740\t所以我想我已經一再的說明,我們就是等海策通過之後再進行\n","txt":"謝謝主席 我們有請顧部長有請部長學員好\n大家都很關心這個關於我們的海昆號以及呢我們前件的後續件的這個安排那包含是因為在這個延宕了77天之後呢終於能夠開始進行這個海上測試那其實這是邁出了非常的一大步那我們也希望接下來的海上測試可以成功所以呢第一個部分呢是不是可以先幫我們釐清接下來海上測試會需要的幾個階段以及我們目前進入到的節點是在哪一個部分呢\n我是不是請海軍先生可以委員長海軍參謀長報告後續目前是在做海上測試的開始那我們會先做的是海上的服航測試那服航測試基本上會做大概三次到四次之間那實際會以驗測的一個標準有沒有達到在海上的這個服航測試之後會進入到我們會做一些裝備的調整跟調效\n那包含了一些屋內的必要的工程那再接續後面的潛水潛水的水深比較淺的潛水的測試我們潛水大概要潛水測試大概預期大概是50公尺50公尺的測試那在完成潛水的四行之後還會再進入到深水那深水大概會到我們要求標準的規範大概200公尺左右的部分200公尺是的\n完成這三樣的測試中間還有加上一些比較必要的作戰的測試來完成全部的海上測試作戰的測試也包含說我們在整個潛艇上面的武器裝備的測試\n那我們預期從因為這個最近6月17號開始我們在節點上面的安排從6月17號那要經過您剛講的幾個第一個就是我們是出港了嘛在這個出潛然後再來是出潛測試嘛深潛測試嘛然後這個戰術的測試武器測試大概這個幾個海上測試的階段那我們預期目前預期的這個節點大概在海上測試完畢我們是規劃在什麼樣的時候\n各位委員報告 那我們原先的部分的整個期程規劃是在九月底 也就是九月三十會要做完成海上的測試那交件的時間是在十一月份 是依照合約上面 目前是這樣的規劃因為要問這個問題的原因在於我們在預算討論的時候 關於凍結的部分\n那越早當然在安全的情況之下越早完成海上測試那我們就越早能夠來動之解凍相關的預算這我想呢是大家都這個包含是部長之前都有提到的就是說在海上測試成功之後那針對後續件的部分來做動之那後續件的部分我想要請問一下我們針對後續件的安排那目前的簽約情況為何\n目前後續件的部分感謝大院的支持同意讓這個案子能夠繼續的全民來做推動那我們簽約部分已經跟台船在今年這個上半年已經完成了一個簽約的一個部分所以無論是說我們在立法院裡面有一個主決議就是說民進黨這邊提到的主決議它上面寫說呢要求這個19億5000元\n那要把關然後呢依照預測這個檢驗航程然後呢要通過海上動態測試之後才能動之以確保所獲裝備符合台海防衛作戰區需求這邊的提案人是王定宇、林楚瑩、沈伯陽羅美、嶺辰冠廷、王逸川委員這是主決議的部分以及我們在大院所通過的是在整體的19億5000在20億左右的金額裡面凍結50%\n那一個是主決議那一個是呢在大院裡面通過的這個預算的凍結這兩者之間對於後續件我們原本預定的簽約影響那目前在你們的進度上面是沒有受到影響的是嗎\n抱怨我們簽約部分那臺船就可以跟他的次合約的一個必要的工裝備的這個工作上實施的他的細部的簽約可以把這個後續的商員跟相關的一個這個機具的整備先做一個確認那我們整個付款的時間會在這個今年完成海策之後再動用之後\n那原先你們預計在初期的這個跟台船簽約,也就是走到這個階段的簽約款項,大概是預計需要多少錢?整個我們這個部分分為兩個部分,一個是簽約跟其他必要的大概是兩億,那台船的這個船廠的簽約,船廠的費用大概是17億,所以加起來是這兩個,您再說一下17億是什麼樣的一個費用?\n17億是台船的一個 等於是它的一個就是說它的建造款已經開始建造團隊的時候所以分成初期簽約的2億元以及後續的另外大概17點多大概18億的這個船廠的建造的費用兩個部分對吧那我們現在已經目前就是簽約了兩艘這個後續艦那這兩艘後續艦目前簽約了但是還沒有去做支付嘛是的那沒有去做支付的原因是因為\n錢沒有到位沒有辦法動之還是因為要完成先前所說的我們要在海上測試通過以後使得動之的決定\n我想這個部分就是我在之前已經說過了我們等海撤通過以後再來統治所以因為我今天想要釐清一件事情就是說我們事實上最後的結果主決議的部分是像部長您所說的它上面寫到要海上動態測試完成之後才能夠去動之這個是主決議\n那另外一個部分是在這個大院裡面的表決表決的部分呢是只有動之50%也就是你們是有10億的經費是可以去運用的那剛才呢我們也聽到了在這個10億的經費裡面在跆拳目前我們需要的簽約款裡面是2億左右所以呢50%也就是10億裡面拿出2億來去做簽約款這個是完全足夠完全能夠供於簽約去做使用的\n那後續簽約完之後呢那後續的這個台船的這個建廠才有碰到這個解凍50%預算的問題那根據我們現在目前跟台船簽約兩艘的情況其實凍結50%另外的10億那是綽綽有餘的但是因為包含是部長包含是您對全民的承諾主決議以及大家的一個共識希望讓海空號它能夠有一個海上測試完成之後的這個進度那才針對後續建的部分去做\n款項的動值那這個部分是不是如我剛剛所陳述的這樣子有沒有什麼要補充的我想我們就這樣是期待就是說這個海上測試通過之後這個能夠立即動用那最主要就是說當時在經過委員會在組決議的這個當下呢最重要的就是說要確保我們立法院是支持後續建的建造\n是的所以不管是逐決議或者是在這個大院裡面的所謂用凍結的方式這都代表了是支持後續建的這個繼續進行否則的話那也不會有還有10億的金額讓大家能夠在後續建的部分去簽約兩條那目前沒有凍結的原因只是因為當時的承諾而非因為目前沒有錢可以凍結這樣是這樣子的吧\n我們就是持續來請求這個大約能夠支持後這個原型艦繼續能夠順利來推動然後過去艦的這個部分當然也希望日後大約能夠繼續支持海空號的部分已經全部的預算在文匯都是通過的吧\n海昆號的部分是對啊沒有刪除任何一毛錢全面通過吧所以我們當然是全面支持海昆號不管是進行海策或者是接下來的整個交建的過程當中委員會如果不支持的話那就會有刪除或是凍結但是在海昆號的部分是沒有刪除任何一毛錢部長沒有錯吧\n呃 海昆號的呃 原型件的部分原型件啊應該是後續件沒有刪除對對對原型件也沒有刪除啊是 原型件也沒有刪除對 原型件也沒有刪除嘛 部長對吧\n原型件沒有刪除是原型件沒有刪除那後續件的部分大院的版本是凍結50%代表說有10億可以去運用而簽約的款項也就是目前跟台船的簽約是2億那2億的部分沒有簽約的理由是在於說先前包含是民黨這邊的主決議以及部長您之前對大家的承諾我想確認的是這個事實是否無誤\n現在就是說有關那個簽約的部分我們還是希望就是說這個台船這個可以他跟主要的裝備的次合約商來進行簽約那這個部分還是需要有一些經費的動資對啊那所以說海上測試之後你們會送結凍案進來嗎\n那當然我們希望這個部分就是持續大院能夠支持好那所以我剛剛所陳述的部分就是說簽約跟後續的然後分成兩億十七億然後以及說你海上測試過後按照您之前的承諾送進來解凍然後尋求大概包含是大院或者是說我們委員會委員的支持這個部分那它就是入期的正在進行當中按照你們所設定的節點我這樣講有錯嗎\n對,但是我這邊只是講就是說跟船長簽約的這些款項,事實上照我的理解應該是跟台船這邊是兩億,但事實上跟主要的次合約上的這個簽約的預付,事實上還是有相當的金額,當然當然,但是它是兩個階段的事情\n所以你可以分開處理你也可以一起處理但是現在的狀況就是說呢你們要等你們先前承諾要等海上測試通過之後那才要動之嘛這個主決議上面我看王定宇林、楚英、沈培陽羅美玲、陳冠廷跟王逸川都是這樣寫的他們也沒有分成說有先簽約的款項或者是說後續的那就是它上面寫到是說全部的都要做完海測以後才能去動之使用所以你們目前是按照這份主決議的內容在進行當中嗎\n所以我想我已經一再的說明,我們就是等海策通過之後再進行\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:01.011 --> 00:02.934\n謝謝主席我們有請顧部長有請部長學員好\n\n00:12.648 --> 00:41.630\n大家都很關心這個關於我們的海昆號以及呢我們前件的後續件的這個安排那包含是因為在這個延宕了77天之後呢終於能夠開始進行這個海上測試那其實這是邁出了非常的一大步那我們也希望接下來的海上測試可以成功所以呢第一個部分呢是不是可以先幫我們釐清接下來海上測試會需要的幾個階段以及我們目前進入到的節點是在哪一個部分呢\n\n00:42.190 --> 01:07.122\n我是不是請海軍先生可以委員長海軍參謀長報告後續目前是在做海上測試的開始那我們會先做的是海上的服航測試那服航測試基本上會做大概三次到四次之間那實際會以驗測的一個標準有沒有達到在海上的這個服航測試之後會進入到我們會做一些裝備的調整跟調效\n\n01:09.403 --> 01:35.144\n那包含了一些屋內的必要的工程那再接續後面的潛水潛水的水深比較淺的潛水的測試我們潛水大概要潛水測試大概預期大概是50公尺50公尺的測試那在完成潛水的四行之後還會再進入到深水那深水大概會到我們要求標準的規範大概200公尺左右的部分200公尺是的\n\n01:35.904 --> 01:44.487\n完成這三樣的測試中間還有加上一些比較必要的作戰的測試來完成全部的海上測試作戰的測試也包含說我們在整個潛艇上面的武器裝備的測試\n\n01:52.310 --> 02:12.266\n那我們預期從因為這個最近6月17號開始我們在節點上面的安排從6月17號那要經過您剛講的幾個第一個就是我們是出港了嘛在這個出潛然後再來是出潛測試嘛深潛測試嘛然後這個戰術的測試武器測試大概這個幾個海上測試的階段那我們預期目前預期的這個節點大概在海上測試完畢我們是規劃在什麼樣的時候\n\n02:22.074 --> 02:38.202\n各位委員報告那我們原先的部分的整個期程規劃是在九月底也就是九月三十會要做完成海上的測試那交件的時間是在十一月份是依照合約上面目前是這樣的規劃因為要問這個問題的原因在於我們在預算討論的時候關於凍結的部分\n\n02:43.604 --> 03:06.550\n那越早當然在安全的情況之下越早完成海上測試那我們就越早能夠來動之解凍相關的預算這我想呢是大家都這個包含是部長之前都有提到的就是說在海上測試成功之後那針對後續件的部分來做動之那後續件的部分我想要請問一下我們針對後續件的安排那目前的簽約情況為何\n\n03:10.128 --> 03:32.557\n目前後續件的部分感謝大院的支持同意讓這個案子能夠繼續的全民來做推動那我們簽約部分已經跟台船在今年這個上半年已經完成了一個簽約的一個部分所以無論是說我們在立法院裡面有一個主決議就是說民進黨這邊提到的主決議它上面寫說呢要求這個19億5000元\n\n03:34.818 --> 03:58.851\n那要把關然後呢依照預測這個檢驗航程然後呢要通過海上動態測試之後才能動之以確保所獲裝備符合台海防衛作戰區需求這邊的提案人是王定宇、林楚瑩、沈伯陽羅美、嶺辰冠廷、王逸川委員這是主決議的部分以及我們在大院所通過的是在整體的19億5000在20億左右的金額裡面凍結50%\n\n04:04.674 --> 04:19.040\n那一個是主決議那一個是呢在大院裡面通過的這個預算的凍結這兩者之間對於後續件我們原本預定的簽約影響那目前在你們的進度上面是沒有受到影響的是嗎\n\n04:20.723 --> 04:42.142\n抱怨我們簽約部分那臺船就可以跟他的次合約的一個必要的工裝備的這個工作上實施的他的細部的簽約可以把這個後續的商員跟相關的一個這個機具的整備先做一個確認那我們整個付款的時間會在這個今年完成海策之後再動用之後\n\n04:42.642 --> 05:05.984\n那原先你們預計在初期的這個跟台船簽約,也就是走到這個階段的簽約款項,大概是預計需要多少錢?整個我們這個部分分為兩個部分,一個是簽約跟其他必要的大概是兩億,那台船的這個船廠的簽約,船廠的費用大概是17億,所以加起來是這兩個,您再說一下17億是什麼樣的一個費用?\n\n05:07.565 --> 05:36.505\n17億是台船的一個等於是它的一個就是說它的建造款已經開始建造團隊的時候所以分成初期簽約的2億元以及後續的另外大概17點多大概18億的這個船廠的建造的費用兩個部分對吧那我們現在已經目前就是簽約了兩艘這個後續艦那這兩艘後續艦目前簽約了但是還沒有去做支付嘛是的那沒有去做支付的原因是因為\n\n05:38.566 --> 05:47.590\n錢沒有到位沒有辦法動之還是因為要完成先前所說的我們要在海上測試通過以後使得動之的決定\n\n05:49.818 --> 06:10.465\n我想這個部分就是我在之前已經說過了我們等海撤通過以後再來統治所以因為我今天想要釐清一件事情就是說我們事實上最後的結果主決議的部分是像部長您所說的它上面寫到要海上動態測試完成之後才能夠去動之這個是主決議\n\n06:11.505 --> 06:38.312\n那另外一個部分是在這個大院裡面的表決表決的部分呢是只有動之50%也就是你們是有10億的經費是可以去運用的那剛才呢我們也聽到了在這個10億的經費裡面在跆拳目前我們需要的簽約款裡面是2億左右所以呢50%也就是10億裡面拿出2億來去做簽約款這個是完全足夠完全能夠供於簽約去做使用的\n\n06:38.792 --> 07:07.303\n那後續簽約完之後呢那後續的這個台船的這個建廠才有碰到這個解凍50%預算的問題那根據我們現在目前跟台船簽約兩艘的情況其實凍結50%另外的10億那是綽綽有餘的但是因為包含是部長包含是您對全民的承諾主決議以及大家的一個共識希望讓海空號它能夠有一個海上測試完成之後的這個進度那才針對後續建的部分去做\n\n07:08.203 --> 07:32.980\n款項的動值那這個部分是不是如我剛剛所陳述的這樣子有沒有什麼要補充的我想我們就這樣是期待就是說這個海上測試通過之後這個能夠立即動用那最主要就是說當時在經過委員會在組決議的這個當下呢最重要的就是說要確保我們立法院是支持後續建的建造\n\n07:33.700 --> 07:56.807\n是的所以不管是逐決議或者是在這個大院裡面的所謂用凍結的方式這都代表了是支持後續建的這個繼續進行否則的話那也不會有還有10億的金額讓大家能夠在後續建的部分去簽約兩條那目前沒有凍結的原因只是因為當時的承諾而非因為目前沒有錢可以凍結這樣是這樣子的吧\n\n07:59.418 --> 08:14.473\n我們就是持續來請求這個大約能夠支持後這個原型艦繼續能夠順利來推動然後過去艦的這個部分當然也希望日後大約能夠繼續支持海空號的部分已經全部的預算在文匯都是通過的吧\n\n08:17.093 --> 08:36.663\n海昆號的部分是對啊沒有刪除任何一毛錢全面通過吧所以我們當然是全面支持海昆號不管是進行海策或者是接下來的整個交建的過程當中委員會如果不支持的話那就會有刪除或是凍結但是在海昆號的部分是沒有刪除任何一毛錢部長沒有錯吧\n\n08:38.534 --> 08:49.483\n呃海昆號的呃原型件的部分原型件啊應該是後續件沒有刪除對對對原型件也沒有刪除啊是原型件也沒有刪除對原型件也沒有刪除嘛部長對吧\n\n08:51.623 --> 09:16.300\n原型件沒有刪除是原型件沒有刪除那後續件的部分大院的版本是凍結50%代表說有10億可以去運用而簽約的款項也就是目前跟台船的簽約是2億那2億的部分沒有簽約的理由是在於說先前包含是民黨這邊的主決議以及部長您之前對大家的承諾我想確認的是這個事實是否無誤\n\n09:17.575 --> 09:36.145\n現在就是說有關那個簽約的部分我們還是希望就是說這個台船這個可以他跟主要的裝備的次合約商來進行簽約那這個部分還是需要有一些經費的動資對啊那所以說海上測試之後你們會送結凍案進來嗎\n\n09:38.336 --> 10:03.668\n那當然我們希望這個部分就是持續大院能夠支持好那所以我剛剛所陳述的部分就是說簽約跟後續的然後分成兩億十七億然後以及說你海上測試過後按照您之前的承諾送進來解凍然後尋求大概包含是大院或者是說我們委員會委員的支持這個部分那它就是入期的正在進行當中按照你們所設定的節點我這樣講有錯嗎\n\n10:06.389 --> 10:19.855\n對,但是我這邊只是講就是說跟船長簽約的這些款項,事實上照我的理解應該是跟台船這邊是兩億,但事實上跟主要的次合約上的這個簽約的預付,事實上還是有相當的金額,當然當然,但是它是兩個階段的事情\n\n10:26.078 --> 10:54.945\n所以你可以分開處理你也可以一起處理但是現在的狀況就是說呢你們要等你們先前承諾要等海上測試通過之後那才要動之嘛這個主決議上面我看王定宇林、楚英、沈培陽羅美玲、陳冠廷跟王逸川都是這樣寫的他們也沒有分成說有先簽約的款項或者是說後續的那就是它上面寫到是說全部的都要做完海測以後才能去動之使用所以你們目前是按照這份主決議的內容在進行當中嗎\n\n10:56.354 --> 11:00.740\n所以我想我已經一再的說明,我們就是等海策通過之後再進行\n\n","segments":[{"start":1.011,"end":2.934,"text":"謝謝主席 我們有請顧部長有請部長學員好"},{"start":12.648,"end":41.63,"text":"大家都很關心這個關於我們的海昆號以及呢我們前件的後續件的這個安排那包含是因為在這個延宕了77天之後呢終於能夠開始進行這個海上測試那其實這是邁出了非常的一大步那我們也希望接下來的海上測試可以成功所以呢第一個部分呢是不是可以先幫我們釐清接下來海上測試會需要的幾個階段以及我們目前進入到的節點是在哪一個部分呢"},{"start":42.19,"end":67.122,"text":"我是不是請海軍先生可以委員長海軍參謀長報告後續目前是在做海上測試的開始那我們會先做的是海上的服航測試那服航測試基本上會做大概三次到四次之間那實際會以驗測的一個標準有沒有達到在海上的這個服航測試之後會進入到我們會做一些裝備的調整跟調效"},{"start":69.403,"end":95.144,"text":"那包含了一些屋內的必要的工程那再接續後面的潛水潛水的水深比較淺的潛水的測試我們潛水大概要潛水測試大概預期大概是50公尺50公尺的測試那在完成潛水的四行之後還會再進入到深水那深水大概會到我們要求標準的規範大概200公尺左右的部分200公尺是的"},{"start":95.904,"end":104.487,"text":"完成這三樣的測試中間還有加上一些比較必要的作戰的測試來完成全部的海上測試作戰的測試也包含說我們在整個潛艇上面的武器裝備的測試"},{"start":112.31,"end":132.266,"text":"那我們預期從因為這個最近6月17號開始我們在節點上面的安排從6月17號那要經過您剛講的幾個第一個就是我們是出港了嘛在這個出潛然後再來是出潛測試嘛深潛測試嘛然後這個戰術的測試武器測試大概這個幾個海上測試的階段那我們預期目前預期的這個節點大概在海上測試完畢我們是規劃在什麼樣的時候"},{"start":142.074,"end":158.202,"text":"各位委員報告 那我們原先的部分的整個期程規劃是在九月底 也就是九月三十會要做完成海上的測試那交件的時間是在十一月份 是依照合約上面 目前是這樣的規劃因為要問這個問題的原因在於我們在預算討論的時候 關於凍結的部分"},{"start":163.604,"end":186.55,"text":"那越早當然在安全的情況之下越早完成海上測試那我們就越早能夠來動之解凍相關的預算這我想呢是大家都這個包含是部長之前都有提到的就是說在海上測試成功之後那針對後續件的部分來做動之那後續件的部分我想要請問一下我們針對後續件的安排那目前的簽約情況為何"},{"start":190.128,"end":212.557,"text":"目前後續件的部分感謝大院的支持同意讓這個案子能夠繼續的全民來做推動那我們簽約部分已經跟台船在今年這個上半年已經完成了一個簽約的一個部分所以無論是說我們在立法院裡面有一個主決議就是說民進黨這邊提到的主決議它上面寫說呢要求這個19億5000元"},{"start":214.818,"end":238.851,"text":"那要把關然後呢依照預測這個檢驗航程然後呢要通過海上動態測試之後才能動之以確保所獲裝備符合台海防衛作戰區需求這邊的提案人是王定宇、林楚瑩、沈伯陽羅美、嶺辰冠廷、王逸川委員這是主決議的部分以及我們在大院所通過的是在整體的19億5000在20億左右的金額裡面凍結50%"},{"start":244.674,"end":259.04,"text":"那一個是主決議那一個是呢在大院裡面通過的這個預算的凍結這兩者之間對於後續件我們原本預定的簽約影響那目前在你們的進度上面是沒有受到影響的是嗎"},{"start":260.723,"end":282.142,"text":"抱怨我們簽約部分那臺船就可以跟他的次合約的一個必要的工裝備的這個工作上實施的他的細部的簽約可以把這個後續的商員跟相關的一個這個機具的整備先做一個確認那我們整個付款的時間會在這個今年完成海策之後再動用之後"},{"start":282.642,"end":305.984,"text":"那原先你們預計在初期的這個跟台船簽約,也就是走到這個階段的簽約款項,大概是預計需要多少錢?整個我們這個部分分為兩個部分,一個是簽約跟其他必要的大概是兩億,那台船的這個船廠的簽約,船廠的費用大概是17億,所以加起來是這兩個,您再說一下17億是什麼樣的一個費用?"},{"start":307.565,"end":336.505,"text":"17億是台船的一個 等於是它的一個就是說它的建造款已經開始建造團隊的時候所以分成初期簽約的2億元以及後續的另外大概17點多大概18億的這個船廠的建造的費用兩個部分對吧那我們現在已經目前就是簽約了兩艘這個後續艦那這兩艘後續艦目前簽約了但是還沒有去做支付嘛是的那沒有去做支付的原因是因為"},{"start":338.566,"end":347.59,"text":"錢沒有到位沒有辦法動之還是因為要完成先前所說的我們要在海上測試通過以後使得動之的決定"},{"start":349.818,"end":370.465,"text":"我想這個部分就是我在之前已經說過了我們等海撤通過以後再來統治所以因為我今天想要釐清一件事情就是說我們事實上最後的結果主決議的部分是像部長您所說的它上面寫到要海上動態測試完成之後才能夠去動之這個是主決議"},{"start":371.505,"end":398.312,"text":"那另外一個部分是在這個大院裡面的表決表決的部分呢是只有動之50%也就是你們是有10億的經費是可以去運用的那剛才呢我們也聽到了在這個10億的經費裡面在跆拳目前我們需要的簽約款裡面是2億左右所以呢50%也就是10億裡面拿出2億來去做簽約款這個是完全足夠完全能夠供於簽約去做使用的"},{"start":398.792,"end":427.303,"text":"那後續簽約完之後呢那後續的這個台船的這個建廠才有碰到這個解凍50%預算的問題那根據我們現在目前跟台船簽約兩艘的情況其實凍結50%另外的10億那是綽綽有餘的但是因為包含是部長包含是您對全民的承諾主決議以及大家的一個共識希望讓海空號它能夠有一個海上測試完成之後的這個進度那才針對後續建的部分去做"},{"start":428.203,"end":452.98,"text":"款項的動值那這個部分是不是如我剛剛所陳述的這樣子有沒有什麼要補充的我想我們就這樣是期待就是說這個海上測試通過之後這個能夠立即動用那最主要就是說當時在經過委員會在組決議的這個當下呢最重要的就是說要確保我們立法院是支持後續建的建造"},{"start":453.7,"end":476.807,"text":"是的所以不管是逐決議或者是在這個大院裡面的所謂用凍結的方式這都代表了是支持後續建的這個繼續進行否則的話那也不會有還有10億的金額讓大家能夠在後續建的部分去簽約兩條那目前沒有凍結的原因只是因為當時的承諾而非因為目前沒有錢可以凍結這樣是這樣子的吧"},{"start":479.418,"end":494.473,"text":"我們就是持續來請求這個大約能夠支持後這個原型艦繼續能夠順利來推動然後過去艦的這個部分當然也希望日後大約能夠繼續支持海空號的部分已經全部的預算在文匯都是通過的吧"},{"start":497.093,"end":516.663,"text":"海昆號的部分是對啊沒有刪除任何一毛錢全面通過吧所以我們當然是全面支持海昆號不管是進行海策或者是接下來的整個交建的過程當中委員會如果不支持的話那就會有刪除或是凍結但是在海昆號的部分是沒有刪除任何一毛錢部長沒有錯吧"},{"start":518.534,"end":529.483,"text":"呃 海昆號的呃 原型件的部分原型件啊應該是後續件沒有刪除對對對原型件也沒有刪除啊是 原型件也沒有刪除對 原型件也沒有刪除嘛 部長對吧"},{"start":531.623,"end":556.3,"text":"原型件沒有刪除是原型件沒有刪除那後續件的部分大院的版本是凍結50%代表說有10億可以去運用而簽約的款項也就是目前跟台船的簽約是2億那2億的部分沒有簽約的理由是在於說先前包含是民黨這邊的主決議以及部長您之前對大家的承諾我想確認的是這個事實是否無誤"},{"start":557.575,"end":576.145,"text":"現在就是說有關那個簽約的部分我們還是希望就是說這個台船這個可以他跟主要的裝備的次合約商來進行簽約那這個部分還是需要有一些經費的動資對啊那所以說海上測試之後你們會送結凍案進來嗎"},{"start":578.336,"end":603.668,"text":"那當然我們希望這個部分就是持續大院能夠支持好那所以我剛剛所陳述的部分就是說簽約跟後續的然後分成兩億十七億然後以及說你海上測試過後按照您之前的承諾送進來解凍然後尋求大概包含是大院或者是說我們委員會委員的支持這個部分那它就是入期的正在進行當中按照你們所設定的節點我這樣講有錯嗎"},{"start":606.389,"end":619.855,"text":"對,但是我這邊只是講就是說跟船長簽約的這些款項,事實上照我的理解應該是跟台船這邊是兩億,但事實上跟主要的次合約上的這個簽約的預付,事實上還是有相當的金額,當然當然,但是它是兩個階段的事情"},{"start":626.078,"end":654.945,"text":"所以你可以分開處理你也可以一起處理但是現在的狀況就是說呢你們要等你們先前承諾要等海上測試通過之後那才要動之嘛這個主決議上面我看王定宇林、楚英、沈培陽羅美玲、陳冠廷跟王逸川都是這樣寫的他們也沒有分成說有先簽約的款項或者是說後續的那就是它上面寫到是說全部的都要做完海測以後才能去動之使用所以你們目前是按照這份主決議的內容在進行當中嗎"},{"start":656.354,"end":660.74,"text":"所以我想我已經一再的說明,我們就是等海策通過之後再進行"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":310,"blocks":[["徐委員巧芯：（10時30分）謝謝主席，有請顧部長。"],["主席：有請部長。"],["顧部長立雄：徐委員好。"],["徐委員巧芯：早安。大家都很關心關於海鯤號以及潛艦後續艦的安排，因為在延宕了77天之後終於能夠開始進行海上測試，其實這是邁出了非常大的一步，我們也希望接下來的海上測試可以成功，所以第一個部分是不是可以先幫我們釐清接下來海上測試會需要幾個階段以及我們目前進入到的節點是在哪個部分？"],["顧部長立雄：我是不是請海軍報告？"],["徐委員巧芯：可以。"],["邱參謀長俊榮：委員早。海軍參謀長報告，目前是開始在做海上測試，我們會先做的是海上的浮航測試，浮航測試基本上會做大概3次到4次之間，實際會以有沒有達成驗測標準，在海上的浮航測試之後，我們會做一些裝備的調整跟調校，包含了一些塢內的必要工程，再接續後面會有水深比較淺的淺水測試。"],["徐委員巧芯：淺水測試大概預期希望……"],["邱參謀長俊榮：預期大概是50公尺左右。"],["徐委員巧芯：50公尺，OK。"],["邱參謀長俊榮：在完成淺水試航之後還會再進入到深水，深水會到我們要求的標準規範大概是200公尺左右，完成這三樣的測試中間還會加上一些必要的作戰測試，來完成全部的海上測試。"],["徐委員巧芯：OK。作戰的測試也包含在整個潛艇上面的武器裝備測試，對不對？"],["邱參謀長俊榮：是的。"],["徐委員巧芯：因為是從6月17號開始，所以在節點上的安排，從6月17號，要經過您剛剛講的幾個測試，第一個就是我們出港了，再來是初潛測試、深潛測試，然後戰術測試、武器測試，大概是這幾個海上測試階段，目前預期的節點，大概是規劃什麼時候會完成海上測試？"],["邱參謀長俊榮：跟委員報告，我們原先整個期程規劃是在9月底，也就是9月30號會完成海上測試，交艦的時間是在11月份，依照合約，目前是這樣的規劃。"],["徐委員巧芯：好，要問這個問題的原因在於我們在預算討論時關於凍結的部分，當然在安全的情況之下，越早完成海上測試，我們就越早能夠來動支解凍相關預算，我想這是大家包含部長之前都有提到的，就是在海上測試成功之後，針對後續艦的部分來做動支。而後續艦的部分，我想要請問一下，針對後續艦的安排，目前的簽約情況為何？"],["邱參謀長俊榮：目前後續艦的部分，感謝大院的支持，同意讓這個案子能夠繼續地來做推動，我們已經跟台船在今年上半年完成簽約的部分。"],["徐委員巧芯：立法院有一個主決議，民進黨這邊提到的主決議，上面寫說要求這19億5,000元要把關，檢驗航程，要通過海上動態測試之後才能動支，以確保所獲裝備符合臺海防衛作戰需求，提案人是王定宇、林楚茵、沈伯洋、羅美玲、陳冠廷、王義川委員，這是主決議的部分；以及我們在大院所通過的，是在整體19億5,000、大概20億左右的金額裡面凍結50%，一個是主決議，一個是大院通過的預算凍結，這兩者之間對於後續艦原本預定的簽約影響，目前在你們的進度上面是沒有受到影響的，是嗎？"],["邱參謀長俊榮：報告委員，簽約的部分，台船就可以跟次合約裝備商實施細部簽約，也能夠確認後續的商源及相關的機具整備，我們整個付款的時間，會在今年完成海測、動用之後再來實施。"],["徐委員巧芯：OK，原先你們預計初期跟台船簽約，也就是走到這個階段的簽約款項，大概是預計需要多少錢？"],["邱參謀長俊榮：這個部分分為兩個部分，一個是簽約跟其他必要的大概是2億，台船船廠的費用大概17億，所以加起來是……"],["徐委員巧芯：等一下，您再說一下17億是什麼樣的費用？"],["邱參謀長俊榮：17億是台船的建造款。"],["徐委員巧芯：已經開始建造團隊的時候，所以分成初期簽約的2億元，以及後續大概十七點多、18億的船廠建造費用，兩個部分對吧？"],["邱參謀長俊榮：是。"],["徐委員巧芯：我們目前已經簽約2艘後續艦，這2艘後續艦目前也簽約了，但是還沒有去做支付嘛？"],["邱參謀長俊榮：是的。"],["徐委員巧芯：沒有去做支付的原因，是因為錢沒有到位，沒有辦法動支？還是因為要完成先前所說的，我們要在海上測試通過以後，始得動支的決定？"],["顧部長立雄：我想這個部分，我在之前已經說過了，我們等海測通過以後，再來動支。"],["徐委員巧芯：因為我今天想要釐清一件事情，就是事實上最後的結果，主決議的部分是像部長您所說的，它上面寫到讓海上動態測試完成之後，才能夠去動支，這是主決議嘛。","另外一個是在大院裡面的表決，這部分只有凍結50%，也就是你們有10億經費可以去運用的，剛剛我們也聽到在這個10億的經費裡面，台船目前需要的簽約款是2億左右，所以50%，也就是10億裡面拿出2億去做簽約款，其實是完全足夠、完全能夠供予簽約去做使用的；後續簽約完之後，台船的建廠才會碰到解凍50%預算的問題。根據我們目前跟台船簽約2艘的情況，其實凍結50%，另外的10億是綽綽有餘的，但是因為包含部長您對全民的承諾、主決議以及大家的一個共識，希望讓海鯤號能夠有完成海上測試之後的進度，才會針對後續艦的部分去做款項的動支，這個部分是不是如我剛剛所陳述的？有沒有什麼要補充的？"],["顧部長立雄：我想我們當然是期待海上測試通過之後能夠立即動用，最主要是當時在經過委員會做主決議的當下，就是要確保立法院是支持後續艦的建造。"],["徐委員巧芯：是的，所以不管是主決議，或在大院裡面所謂用凍結的方式，都代表是支持後續艦的繼續進行，否則也不會還有10億的金額，讓大家能夠在後續艦部分再簽約2艘。所以目前沒有動支的原因，只是因為當時的承諾，而非因為目前沒有錢可以動支，部長，是這樣子的吧？"],["顧部長立雄：我們就是持續請求大院能夠支持原型艦，繼續順利來推動……"],["徐委員巧芯：當然，但是您所說的是……"],["顧部長立雄：後續艦的部分，當然也希望日後大院能夠繼續支持。"],["徐委員巧芯：海鯤號的預算部分，全部已經在委員會都是通過的吧？"],["顧部長立雄：海鯤號的部分，是的。"],["徐委員巧芯：對啊！沒有刪除任何一毛錢，全面通過吧！所以我們當然是全面支持海鯤號，不管是進行海測，或是接下來整個交艦的過程當中，委員會如果不支持的話，就會有刪除或凍結，但是在海鯤號的部分，是沒有刪除任何一毛錢，部長沒有錯吧？"],["顧部長立雄：海鯤號的原型艦部分……"],["邱參謀長俊榮：後續艦沒有刪除。"],["徐委員巧芯：對，原型艦也沒有刪除？"],["邱參謀長俊榮：是，原型艦也沒有刪除。"],["徐委員巧芯：對，原型艦沒有刪除，部長對吧？"],["顧部長立雄：原型艦沒有刪除，是。"],["徐委員巧芯：原型艦沒有刪除，那後續艦的部分，大院的版本是凍結50%，代表有10億可以去運用，而簽約的款項，也就是目前跟台船簽約是2億，那2億的部分，沒有簽約的理由是在於先前包含民進黨的主決議，以及部長之前對大家的承諾，我想確認這個事實是否無誤？"],["顧部長立雄：現在就是有關簽約的部分，我們還是希望台船可以跟主要裝備的次合約商來進行簽約，這個部分還是需要有一些經費的動支。"],["徐委員巧芯：對啊，所以海上測試之後，你們會送解凍案進來嘛！"],["顧部長立雄：當然我們希望這個部分大院能夠持續支持。"],["徐委員巧芯：所以我剛剛所陳述的部分，就是簽約跟後續的分成2億、17億，以及海上測試通過後，按照您之前的承諾送進來解凍，然後尋求包含大院或我們委員會委員的支持，這個部分就是如期正在進行當中，按照你們所設定的節點，我這樣講有錯嗎？"],["顧部長立雄：對，但是我這邊只是講，跟船廠簽約的這些款項，照我的理解應該是跟台船這邊需要2億，但事實上，跟主要的次合約商簽約預估還是有相當的金額，應該是十幾億吧，要16億左右。"],["徐委員巧芯：當然！但它是兩個階段的事情，所以你可以分開處理，你也可以一起處理，但是現在的狀況就是你們先前承諾要等海上測試通過之後，才要動支，我看主決議上面有王定宇、林楚茵、沈伯洋、羅美玲、陳冠廷跟王義川，就是這樣寫的，他們也沒有分成有先簽約的款項或者是後續的，上面寫到的就是全部都做完海測以後，才能動支使用，所以你們目前是按照這份主決議的內容在進行當中嗎？"],["顧部長立雄：是，我想我已經一再的說明，我們就是等海測通過之後再來進行。"],["徐委員巧芯：好，謝謝部長。"],["顧部長立雄：謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝徐委員，部長請回。","接下來請林憶君委員上臺質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":300,"meet_id":"委員會-11-3-35-21","speakers":["沈伯洋","陳永康","羅美玲","陳俊宇","王定宇","林楚茵","陳冠廷","林岱樺","徐巧芯","林憶君","黃仁"],"page_start":263,"meetingDate":["2025-06-25"],"gazette_id":"1146201","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1146201_00012"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期外交及國防委員會第21次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、繼續處理院會交付113年度中央政府總預算決議，國防部主管預算凍結案等6案；二、處理院\n會交付114年度中央政府總預算決議，國防部主管預算凍結案等34案；三、處理院會交付114年度\n中央政府總預算決議，外交部主管預算凍結案1案；四、處理院會交付114年度中央政府總預算決\n議，僑務委員會主管預算凍結案1案","agenda_id":"1146201_00013"}}}