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\"那在去年的二月的時候我們高雄也結合了這個美國太空總署NASA他們剛好有一個計畫要做亞洲地區的垂直的監測那國內總共有15所大學40個教授投入這個計畫所以在高雄部分我們也有PM0.1的監測站歐盟才從去年底要求兩年後要設所以這個部分也跟委員做一個說明\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 129.474, \"end\": 129.614, \"score\": 0.985}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 129.614, \"end\": 129.834, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"去\", \"start\": 129.834, \"end\": 130.054, \"score\": 0.912}, {\"word\": \"年\", \"start\": 130.054, \"end\": 130.514, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 130.514, \"end\": 130.674, \"score\": 0.993}, {\"word\": \"二\", \"start\": 130.674, \"end\": 130.874, \"score\": 0.902}, {\"word\": \"月\", \"start\": 130.874, \"end\": 131.014, \"score\": 0.877}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 131.014, \"end\": 131.294, \"score\": 0.924}, {\"word\": \"時\"}, {\"word\": \"候\", \"start\": 131.294, \"end\": 131.395, \"score\": 0.794}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 131.395, \"end\": 131.975, \"score\": 0.959}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"高\", \"start\": 131.975, \"end\": 132.155, \"score\": 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\"蔓\", \"start\": 869.749, \"end\": 869.829, \"score\": 0.75}, {\"word\": \"緯\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"施\", \"start\": 869.829, \"end\": 869.869, \"score\": 0.403}, {\"word\": \"政\", \"start\": 869.869, \"end\": 869.889, \"score\": 0.0}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:11,772 --> 00:00:17,395\n就是要有請那個環境部的次長好請次長好\n\n2\n00:00:25,035 --> 00:00:38,965\n市長好大家都知道說PM2.5是空氣污染的重要指標但其實更細更危害的就是我們的PM0.1這種連口罩都擋不住的超細的選服為例現在台灣幾乎沒人在監測也沒人在管制\n\n3\n00:00:54,295 --> 00:01:05,981\n我們要請教一下我們的環境部現在有針對像台中火力發電廠這種的大型燃煤測試還有去監測我們PM0.1的排放嗎不是PM2.5喔是PM0.1有沒有專案的監測還有說如果\n\n4\n00:01:21,630 --> 00:01:50,476\n我們火力全開對周邊的PM0.1的濃度影響我們有數據嗎跟委員報告一下那個剛剛委員講說歐盟的部分那歐盟是在2024年的11月的時候才要求就是歐盟的會員國在兩年之內他必須要去開始設監測站要去監測PM0.1也就是說去年\n\n5\n00:01:51,596 --> 00:02:07,532\n年底的時候才開始要求那我們台灣是在112年的時候我們在台大的部分我們請台大一個教授團隊他們開始監測設在這一個基隆路三段長津街口那有一個PM0.1的監測站\n\n6\n00:02:09,474 --> 00:02:36,321\n那在去年的二月的時候我們高雄也結合了這個美國太空總署NASA他們剛好有一個計畫要做亞洲地區的垂直的監測那國內總共有15所大學40個教授投入這個計畫所以在高雄部分我們也有PM0.1的監測站歐盟才從去年底要求兩年後要設所以這個部分也跟委員做一個說明\n\n7\n00:02:38,086 --> 00:02:48,512\n你停留在上一個委員的時空我問的是台中我們台中我們問了台中是說我們有沒有這個數據不是要去講八郎八郎要怎麼做我們現在我們全國的PM0.1的來源比例有掌握嗎有數據嗎就是說燃煤電廠車流工業製作業等哪一個\n\n8\n00:03:09,349 --> 00:03:15,174\n那個占比最高還有是哪一個我們想挖你的直接說就是在這個所以根本沒有就是PM0.1的排放的清單不是\n\n9\n00:03:25,704 --> 00:03:30,167\n學校在做要是白人在做要是高雄在做台中的人民很可憐欸台中說到高雄你是要拍高雄的拍馬屁嗎所以重點就是我們要說有沒有這個數據有沒有這樣子的PM0.1的排放清單你有在做嗎\n\n10\n00:03:47,579 --> 00:04:08,074\n問是你要做嗎?說國語聽不懂,說台語可以嗎?台語也可以啦台語就是台中市現在在台中台灣大道,還有中港路也設了一個站三十多年也設了一個站,有兩個站在台中所以台北市有一個,台中市有兩個,國中市有三個我們是PM0.1啊,不是說PM2.5進程就是大家都不要注意PM0.1這個問題啦\n\n11\n00:04:14,679 --> 00:04:17,642\n現在歐盟開始鼓勵要求他們的會員局努力以後來設PMD的監測委員補就說我們台灣已經開始了已經推薦了所以我們已經開始我們開始但是我們就是有參考歐盟的標準對不對\n\n12\n00:04:34,961 --> 00:04:37,322\n所以現在就是說我們的法規還有就是說我們的管制方法有沒有具體的時程表還有我們說一樣不要在演繹中因為大家都聽到演繹中討論中\n\n13\n00:04:55,168 --> 00:04:58,131\n還有就是在檢討中所以我們希望的就是要說清楚我們進入哪一個階段還有沒有這個時程因為我們現在都在說我們PM0.1的法規還有管制的方法有沒有具體的這樣子的一個法規出來\n\n14\n00:05:16,329 --> 00:05:17,530\n所以我們針對這樣子的排放的技術還有像說我們的燃煤電廠的設備有沒有評估過能不能處理PM0.1台中電廠這些空污防滯的設備\n\n15\n00:05:33,243 --> 00:05:41,946\n他們能不能處理你說有多少有多少不是只有有就是說你講有但是很多人沒有看到也沒有沒有具體的所以我們希望說還是說怎麼樣如果處理我們的環境部是不是該要求台電淘汰設備或者是改為燃氣的發電這個部分我們要有具體的啦數據啦\n\n16\n00:06:02,553 --> 00:06:28,850\n謝謝委員的質詢那這個很重要就是委員有點出一個重點PM0.1根據目前來看因為過去就是沒有去做監測嘛所以缺少這個先測的數據所以到目前為止還沒有世界衛生組織或是歐盟都還沒有管制標準現在沒有啦現在就是說在質疑裡面提醒大家要注意所以我們現在醫界聯盟我們很多公衛的專家也開始在提醒我們要注意PM0.1\n\n17\n00:06:30,071 --> 00:06:58,434\n那我要講說PM0.1目前所看到的研究裡面大概指出最主要的來源是在道路環忙的交通的排放就是其一另外工業的排放還有剛剛您關心的就是電力業的部分也是來源之一所以這個部分我們一併把它納入這個數據的收集之後我們找出排放的來源才能夠擬出管制的對策那我們這個部分一定會跟歐盟接軌\n\n18\n00:06:59,335 --> 00:07:15,443\n所以我很關心這個部分那至於台中電廠我們如果針對台中火力發電廠過去其實也是沒有人在測PM0.1嘛過去都只有做PM2.5那現在因為PM0.1是我們的重點了所以我們也會要求現在的監測\n\n19\n00:07:16,784 --> 00:07:29,103\n因為他剛剛有講到電力業是主要來源之一所以當然我們會請台電這邊自己也要做這樣的一個自主的一個監測啦那我們這邊也會啟動相關的跟台東市政府一起來努力\n\n20\n00:07:29,858 --> 00:07:38,125\n好我們希望是你說得對做得對啦不能說什麼歐盟在做我們就等歐盟我們是台灣啦我們就是要以我們台灣來去就是要怎麼樣去設或怎麼樣去做才能達到這個效果最後我想要請教一下就是針對因為我們現在已經在夏天了所以剛才也就說是不是改成就是燃氣的發電我們夏天燃\n\n21\n00:07:57,922 --> 00:08:05,146\n燃煤的機組火力全開的狀況就像剛才你說的這個環境這邊的話就會變成是更空氣更汙染所以我們環境部有沒有和經濟部台電去協調過還是說優先用我們的燃氣機組就就嫌少這樣子的一個空汙\n\n22\n00:08:21,175 --> 00:08:27,060\n這個部分有沒有記錄有沒有協調的記錄或者是會議的記錄是不是說代表我們的能源那個條度根本有沒有納入我們的空污的考量這個部分我們都要想要知道\n\n23\n00:08:37,271 --> 00:08:40,114\n不能說就算別人怎樣我們就是要你怎樣我們才會知道結果所以我們希望就是說這個有沒有考慮到的空乎的考量還有我們看到的這些就是的\n\n24\n00:08:53,527 --> 00:08:58,690\n黑煙他也看不到這是入門的廢炮甚至是入門的血液因為他這是很微小的所以我們不能再就是說研議再討論或者是別人在做我們要的是你在做所以我們希望說你要把這個排放清單要有沒有見不要讓我們台中的民眾就是\n\n25\n00:09:20,560 --> 00:09:23,201\n所以請你明確交代就是說我們的環境部在PM0.1的作為能不能在這些東西就是在空氣裡面不能讓這些污染自由放任\n\n26\n00:09:40,786 --> 00:10:04,141\n你做得到嗎你做的你要做要如何就是要規劃不要說別人我需要的是你你有沒有明確的是我們PM0.1就是先監測找來源定策略我們會這樣來管制謝謝好所以教育生的排放清單還有數據這個部分可以給我們嗎\n\n27\n00:10:05,826 --> 00:10:14,328\n一個禮拜現在都還沒有監測怎麼會有清單呢你可以這樣說你的排測的清單就表示說你有這樣子的PM0.1你剛才不是有說嗎我們高雄哪裡哪裡我們台中也有啊你不是說有嗎有的話你就是要去用嘛台灣還沒有建置PM0.1的監測站\n\n28\n00:10:29,332 --> 00:10:40,628\n剛才有說有喔我們有幾個站他說有幾個站喔我們召委你沒吃你沒吃的他說有不是我說的他說的我們有台大在那個\n\n29\n00:10:44,301 --> 00:11:09,261\n巨龍路三段跟長興街口台大辦公所裡面有設一個站那是一個委託研究計畫進行的那個是委託研究計畫對所以我們有一些研究的數據好這樣就提供給外委你如果要那些東西可以提供給你好來我再問一題因為介紹我要問的是我已經多給你五分鐘了好不好但是那個零熟分半個小時都可以我再多五分鐘而已誰半個小時都可以\n\n30\n00:11:09,841 --> 00:11:25,111\n林淑芬,每期質詢在她的後面,我都等很久了不,這樣大家都要報點錢,你也擺不定,你現在也沒時間說話,我時間夠了,好不好你趕高鐵,當我們在後面也是趕高鐵啊,我們也是在後面在演啊私底下可以問啦,好不好我就正式還沒有問好,再問嘛不是,我已經等了五分鐘了,好不好,謝謝不用再給我一分鐘不好意思,因為阿表人家在等,人家也要說話,發給人家時間的問題嘛,好不好,嘿\n\n31\n00:11:39,501 --> 00:11:46,886\n趙薇不可以大聲一點你每次來我都會給你多一點時間你不要多大聲一點我來的時候我都會多一點時間你不要這樣跟我說好不好我給你五分鐘你說我多大聲一點不要這樣同事間不需要這樣時間到我就該換別人時間到我就說再給我再提你給我一分鐘我就多給你多一分鐘沒有分鐘是前面的後面再多一分鐘我為什麼要在後面多給你一分鐘後面有委員的行程嘛\n\n32\n00:12:08,840 --> 00:12:27,739\n每一個人都有形成,但是我每次跟您說我都等很久所以說我們還沒有問完,這個是不是在演戲我已經給你五分鐘了,其實再講下去已經六分鐘了你時間到47分21秒,現在是41.5分40分我怎麼沒有話跟你講對啊你就一直在講啊沒關係啊,不然你繼續講啊\n\n33\n00:12:31,957 --> 00:12:57,226\n我尊重你,也希望你尊重我,好不好我當主席沒有再跟委員有任何的衝突啦,好不好時間到就請下去,我已經多給你現在多了七分鐘了你一直講怎麼是多給一分鐘啊你都沒講啊你都沒講啊好啦,時間趕,好不好,嘿,來給我一分鐘,可以嗎主席\n\n34\n00:13:02,430 --> 00:13:19,131\n好,我想要問的是說我們環境部沒辦法做到,我們的衛福部衛福部有沒有辦法做到因為現在我們的PM0.1特別就是應付\n\n35\n00:13:19,656 --> 00:13:45,072\n我們的胎兒還有長輩我們都要有特式的口罩嗎來戴嗎還是在家裡像我們台中都戴著口罩在家裡嗎所以我們是害怕這些會危害我們讓我們怕了就是因為這個PM0.1會導致中風四肢腦癌還有瘡\n\n36\n00:13:46,833 --> 00:13:57,362\n在穿透我们的胎盘影响我们的健康所以我们希望我们团进部卫福部共同来去把这件事情\n\n37\n00:14:00,799 --> 00:14:29,889\n好謝委員那個今天召委安排這個專報也就是因為PM0.1太為細了戴口罩是沒有辦法過濾掉的它會進到我們人體影響健康所以召委才安排這個專案報告所以我想這個我們會跟衛福部不只衛福部跟今天在座所有相關部會我們都會一起來努力交通部教育部等等大家一起來我們要的就是你答應這樣跟我們人民答應而已所以謝謝召委好謝謝蔓緯謝謝施政\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n11772\t17395\t就是要有請那個環境部的次長好 請次長好\n25035\t38965\t市長好大家都知道說PM2.5是空氣污染的重要指標但其實更細更危害的就是我們的PM0.1這種連口罩都擋不住的超細的選服為例現在台灣幾乎沒人在監測也沒人在管制\n54295\t65981\t我們要請教一下我們的環境部現在有針對像台中火力發電廠這種的大型燃煤測試還有去監測我們PM0.1的排放嗎不是PM2.5喔是PM0.1有沒有專案的監測還有說如果\n81630\t110476\t我們火力全開對周邊的PM0.1的濃度影響我們有數據嗎跟委員報告一下那個剛剛委員講說歐盟的部分那歐盟是在2024年的11月的時候才要求就是歐盟的會員國在兩年之內他必須要去開始設監測站要去監測PM0.1也就是說去年\n111596\t127532\t年底的時候才開始要求那我們台灣是在112年的時候我們在台大的部分我們請台大一個教授團隊他們開始監測設在這一個基隆路三段長津街口那有一個PM0.1的監測站\n129474\t156321\t那在去年的二月的時候我們高雄也結合了這個美國太空總署NASA他們剛好有一個計畫要做亞洲地區的垂直的監測那國內總共有15所大學40個教授投入這個計畫所以在高雄部分我們也有PM0.1的監測站歐盟才從去年底要求兩年後要設所以這個部分也跟委員做一個說明\n158086\t168512\t你停留在上一個委員的時空 我問的是台中我們台中我們問了台中是說我們有沒有這個數據不是要去講八郎 八郎要怎麼做我們現在我們全國的PM0.1的來源比例有掌握嗎有數據嗎 就是說燃煤 電廠 車流工業 製作業等哪一個\n189349\t195174\t那個占比最高還有是哪一個我們想挖你的直接說就是在這個所以根本沒有就是PM0.1的排放的清單不是\n205704\t210167\t學校在做 要是白人在做 要是高雄在做台中的人民很可憐欸台中說到高雄 你是要拍高雄的拍馬屁嗎所以重點就是我們要說有沒有這個數據有沒有這樣子的PM0.1的排放清單你有在做嗎\n227579\t248074\t問是你要做嗎?說國語聽不懂,說台語可以嗎?台語也可以啦台語就是台中市現在在台中台灣大道,還有中港路也設了一個站三十多年也設了一個站,有兩個站在台中所以台北市有一個,台中市有兩個,國中市有三個我們是PM0.1啊,不是說PM2.5進程就是大家都不要注意PM0.1這個問題啦\n254679\t257642\t現在歐盟開始鼓勵要求他們的會員局 努力以後來設PMD的監測委員補就說我們台灣已經開始了 已經推薦了所以我們已經開始 我們開始但是我們就是有參考歐盟的標準 對不對\n274961\t277322\t所以現在就是說我們的法規還有就是說我們的管制方法有沒有具體的時程表還有我們說一樣不要在演繹中因為大家都聽到演繹中 討論中\n295168\t298131\t還有就是在檢討中所以我們希望的就是要說清楚我們進入哪一個階段還有沒有這個時程因為我們現在都在說我們PM0.1的法規還有管制的方法有沒有具體的這樣子的一個法規出來\n316329\t317530\t所以我們針對這樣子的排放的技術還有像說我們的燃煤電廠的設備有沒有評估過能不能處理PM0.1台中電廠這些空污防滯的設備\n333243\t341946\t他們能不能處理你說有多少有多少不是只有有 就是說你講有但是很多人沒有看到也沒有沒有具體的所以我們希望說還是說怎麼樣如果處理我們的環境部是不是該要求台電淘汰設備或者是改為燃氣的發電這個部分我們要有具體的啦數據啦\n362553\t388850\t謝謝委員的質詢那這個很重要就是委員有點出一個重點PM0.1根據目前來看因為過去就是沒有去做監測嘛所以缺少這個先測的數據所以到目前為止還沒有世界衛生組織或是歐盟都還沒有管制標準現在沒有啦現在就是說在質疑裡面提醒大家要注意所以我們現在醫界聯盟我們很多公衛的專家也開始在提醒我們要注意PM0.1\n390071\t418434\t那我要講說PM0.1目前所看到的研究裡面大概指出最主要的來源是在道路環忙的交通的排放就是其一另外工業的排放還有剛剛您關心的就是電力業的部分也是來源之一所以這個部分我們一併把它納入這個數據的收集之後我們找出排放的來源才能夠擬出管制的對策那我們這個部分一定會跟歐盟接軌\n419335\t435443\t所以我很關心這個部分那至於台中電廠我們如果針對台中火力發電廠過去其實也是沒有人在測PM0.1嘛過去都只有做PM2.5那現在因為PM0.1是我們的重點了所以我們也會要求現在的監測\n436784\t449103\t因為他剛剛有講到電力業是主要來源之一所以當然我們會請台電這邊自己也要做這樣的一個自主的一個監測啦那我們這邊也會啟動相關的跟台東市政府一起來努力\n449858\t458125\t好 我們希望是你說得對 做得對啦 不能說什麼歐盟在做 我們就等歐盟 我們是台灣啦 我們就是要以我們台灣來去就是要怎麼樣去設 或怎麼樣去做 才能達到這個效果最後我想要請教一下 就是針對因為我們現在已經在夏天了 所以剛才也就說 是不是改成就是燃氣的發電 我們夏天燃\n477922\t485146\t燃煤的機組火力全開的狀況就像剛才你說的這個環境這邊的話就會變成是更空氣更汙染所以我們環境部有沒有和經濟部台電去協調過還是說優先用我們的燃氣機組就就嫌少這樣子的一個空汙\n501175\t507060\t這個部分有沒有記錄有沒有協調的記錄或者是會議的記錄是不是說代表我們的能源那個條度根本有沒有納入我們的空污的考量這個部分我們都要想要知道\n517271\t520114\t不能說就算別人怎樣我們就是要你怎樣我們才會知道結果所以我們希望就是說這個有沒有考慮到的空乎的考量還有我們看到的這些就是的\n533527\t538690\t黑煙 他也看不到這是入門的廢炮甚至是入門的血液因為他這是很微小的所以我們不能再就是說研議再討論或者是別人在做我們要的是你在做所以我們希望說你要把這個排放清單要有沒有見不要讓我們台中的民眾就是\n560560\t563201\t所以請你明確交代就是說我們的環境部在PM0.1的作為能不能在這些東西就是在空氣裡面不能讓這些污染自由放任\n580786\t604141\t你做得到嗎 你做的 你要做要如何 就是要規劃不要說別人 我需要的是你 你有沒有明確的是 我們PM0.1就是先監測 找來源 定策略我們會這樣來管制 謝謝好 所以教育生的排放清單 還有數據 這個部分可以給我們嗎\n605826\t614328\t一個禮拜 現在都還沒有監測 怎麼會有清單呢你可以這樣說 你的排測的清單就表示說 你有這樣子的PM0.1你剛才不是有說嗎 我們高雄哪裡哪裡 我們台中也有啊你不是說有嗎 有的話你就是要去用嘛台灣還沒有建置PM0.1的監測站\n629332\t640628\t剛才有說有喔我們有幾個站他說有幾個站喔我們召委你沒吃你沒吃的他說有不是我說的他說的我們有台大在那個\n644301\t669261\t巨龍路三段跟長興街口台大辦公所裡面有設一個站那是一個委託研究計畫進行的那個是委託研究計畫對所以我們有一些研究的數據好 這樣就提供給外委你如果要那些東西可以提供給你好 來我再問一題因為介紹我要問的是我已經多給你五分鐘了好不好但是那個零熟分半個小時都可以我再多五分鐘而已誰半個小時都可以\n669841\t685111\t林淑芬,每期質詢在她的後面,我都等很久了不,這樣大家都要報點錢,你也擺不定,你現在也沒時間說話,我時間夠了,好不好你趕高鐵,當我們在後面也是趕高鐵啊,我們也是在後面在演啊私底下可以問啦,好不好我就正式還沒有問好,再問嘛不是,我已經等了五分鐘了,好不好,謝謝不用再給我一分鐘不好意思,因為阿表人家在等,人家也要說話,發給人家時間的問題嘛,好不好,嘿\n699501\t706886\t趙薇 不可以大聲一點你每次來我都會給你多一點時間你不要多大聲一點我來的時候我都會多一點時間你不要這樣跟我說好不好我給你五分鐘 你說我多大聲一點不要這樣同事間不需要這樣時間到我就該換別人時間到我就說再給我再提你給我一分鐘我就多給你多一分鐘沒有 分鐘是前面的後面再多一分鐘我為什麼要在後面多給你一分鐘後面有委員的行程嘛\n728840\t747739\t每一個人都有形成,但是我每次跟您說我都等很久所以說我們還沒有問完,這個是不是在演戲我已經給你五分鐘了,其實再講下去已經六分鐘了你時間到47分21秒,現在是41.5分40分我怎麼沒有話跟你講對啊你就一直在講啊沒關係啊,不然你繼續講啊\n751957\t777226\t我尊重你,也希望你尊重我,好不好我當主席沒有再跟委員有任何的衝突啦,好不好時間到就請下去,我已經多給你現在多了七分鐘了你一直講怎麼是多給一分鐘啊你都沒講啊你都沒講啊好啦,時間趕,好不好,嘿,來給我一分鐘,可以嗎主席\n782430\t799131\t好,我想要問的是說我們環境部沒辦法做到,我們的衛福部衛福部有沒有辦法做到因為現在我們的PM0.1特別就是應付\n799656\t825072\t我們的胎兒還有長輩我們都要有特式的口罩嗎來戴嗎還是在家裡像我們台中都戴著口罩在家裡嗎所以我們是害怕這些會危害我們讓我們怕了就是因為這個PM0.1會導致中風四肢腦癌還有瘡\n826833\t837362\t在穿透我们的胎盘影响我们的健康所以我们希望我们团进部卫福部共同来去把这件事情\n840799\t869889\t好 謝委員 那個今天召委安排這個專報也就是因為PM0.1太為細了戴口罩是沒有辦法過濾掉的 它會進到我們人體 影響健康所以召委才安排這個專案報告所以我想這個我們會跟衛福部 不只衛福部 跟今天在座所有相關部會 我們都會一起來努力交通部 教育部等等 大家一起來我們要的就是你答應 這樣跟我們人民答應而已所以謝謝召委好 謝謝蔓緯 謝謝施政\n","txt":"就是要有請那個環境部的次長好 請次長好\n市長好大家都知道說PM2.5是空氣污染的重要指標但其實更細更危害的就是我們的PM0.1這種連口罩都擋不住的超細的選服為例現在台灣幾乎沒人在監測也沒人在管制\n我們要請教一下我們的環境部現在有針對像台中火力發電廠這種的大型燃煤測試還有去監測我們PM0.1的排放嗎不是PM2.5喔是PM0.1有沒有專案的監測還有說如果\n我們火力全開對周邊的PM0.1的濃度影響我們有數據嗎跟委員報告一下那個剛剛委員講說歐盟的部分那歐盟是在2024年的11月的時候才要求就是歐盟的會員國在兩年之內他必須要去開始設監測站要去監測PM0.1也就是說去年\n年底的時候才開始要求那我們台灣是在112年的時候我們在台大的部分我們請台大一個教授團隊他們開始監測設在這一個基隆路三段長津街口那有一個PM0.1的監測站\n那在去年的二月的時候我們高雄也結合了這個美國太空總署NASA他們剛好有一個計畫要做亞洲地區的垂直的監測那國內總共有15所大學40個教授投入這個計畫所以在高雄部分我們也有PM0.1的監測站歐盟才從去年底要求兩年後要設所以這個部分也跟委員做一個說明\n你停留在上一個委員的時空 我問的是台中我們台中我們問了台中是說我們有沒有這個數據不是要去講八郎 八郎要怎麼做我們現在我們全國的PM0.1的來源比例有掌握嗎有數據嗎 就是說燃煤 電廠 車流工業 製作業等哪一個\n那個占比最高還有是哪一個我們想挖你的直接說就是在這個所以根本沒有就是PM0.1的排放的清單不是\n學校在做 要是白人在做 要是高雄在做台中的人民很可憐欸台中說到高雄 你是要拍高雄的拍馬屁嗎所以重點就是我們要說有沒有這個數據有沒有這樣子的PM0.1的排放清單你有在做嗎\n問是你要做嗎?說國語聽不懂,說台語可以嗎?台語也可以啦台語就是台中市現在在台中台灣大道,還有中港路也設了一個站三十多年也設了一個站,有兩個站在台中所以台北市有一個,台中市有兩個,國中市有三個我們是PM0.1啊,不是說PM2.5進程就是大家都不要注意PM0.1這個問題啦\n現在歐盟開始鼓勵要求他們的會員局 努力以後來設PMD的監測委員補就說我們台灣已經開始了 已經推薦了所以我們已經開始 我們開始但是我們就是有參考歐盟的標準 對不對\n所以現在就是說我們的法規還有就是說我們的管制方法有沒有具體的時程表還有我們說一樣不要在演繹中因為大家都聽到演繹中 討論中\n還有就是在檢討中所以我們希望的就是要說清楚我們進入哪一個階段還有沒有這個時程因為我們現在都在說我們PM0.1的法規還有管制的方法有沒有具體的這樣子的一個法規出來\n所以我們針對這樣子的排放的技術還有像說我們的燃煤電廠的設備有沒有評估過能不能處理PM0.1台中電廠這些空污防滯的設備\n他們能不能處理你說有多少有多少不是只有有 就是說你講有但是很多人沒有看到也沒有沒有具體的所以我們希望說還是說怎麼樣如果處理我們的環境部是不是該要求台電淘汰設備或者是改為燃氣的發電這個部分我們要有具體的啦數據啦\n謝謝委員的質詢那這個很重要就是委員有點出一個重點PM0.1根據目前來看因為過去就是沒有去做監測嘛所以缺少這個先測的數據所以到目前為止還沒有世界衛生組織或是歐盟都還沒有管制標準現在沒有啦現在就是說在質疑裡面提醒大家要注意所以我們現在醫界聯盟我們很多公衛的專家也開始在提醒我們要注意PM0.1\n那我要講說PM0.1目前所看到的研究裡面大概指出最主要的來源是在道路環忙的交通的排放就是其一另外工業的排放還有剛剛您關心的就是電力業的部分也是來源之一所以這個部分我們一併把它納入這個數據的收集之後我們找出排放的來源才能夠擬出管制的對策那我們這個部分一定會跟歐盟接軌\n所以我很關心這個部分那至於台中電廠我們如果針對台中火力發電廠過去其實也是沒有人在測PM0.1嘛過去都只有做PM2.5那現在因為PM0.1是我們的重點了所以我們也會要求現在的監測\n因為他剛剛有講到電力業是主要來源之一所以當然我們會請台電這邊自己也要做這樣的一個自主的一個監測啦那我們這邊也會啟動相關的跟台東市政府一起來努力\n好 我們希望是你說得對 做得對啦 不能說什麼歐盟在做 我們就等歐盟 我們是台灣啦 我們就是要以我們台灣來去就是要怎麼樣去設 或怎麼樣去做 才能達到這個效果最後我想要請教一下 就是針對因為我們現在已經在夏天了 所以剛才也就說 是不是改成就是燃氣的發電 我們夏天燃\n燃煤的機組火力全開的狀況就像剛才你說的這個環境這邊的話就會變成是更空氣更汙染所以我們環境部有沒有和經濟部台電去協調過還是說優先用我們的燃氣機組就就嫌少這樣子的一個空汙\n這個部分有沒有記錄有沒有協調的記錄或者是會議的記錄是不是說代表我們的能源那個條度根本有沒有納入我們的空污的考量這個部分我們都要想要知道\n不能說就算別人怎樣我們就是要你怎樣我們才會知道結果所以我們希望就是說這個有沒有考慮到的空乎的考量還有我們看到的這些就是的\n黑煙 他也看不到這是入門的廢炮甚至是入門的血液因為他這是很微小的所以我們不能再就是說研議再討論或者是別人在做我們要的是你在做所以我們希望說你要把這個排放清單要有沒有見不要讓我們台中的民眾就是\n所以請你明確交代就是說我們的環境部在PM0.1的作為能不能在這些東西就是在空氣裡面不能讓這些污染自由放任\n你做得到嗎 你做的 你要做要如何 就是要規劃不要說別人 我需要的是你 你有沒有明確的是 我們PM0.1就是先監測 找來源 定策略我們會這樣來管制 謝謝好 所以教育生的排放清單 還有數據 這個部分可以給我們嗎\n一個禮拜 現在都還沒有監測 怎麼會有清單呢你可以這樣說 你的排測的清單就表示說 你有這樣子的PM0.1你剛才不是有說嗎 我們高雄哪裡哪裡 我們台中也有啊你不是說有嗎 有的話你就是要去用嘛台灣還沒有建置PM0.1的監測站\n剛才有說有喔我們有幾個站他說有幾個站喔我們召委你沒吃你沒吃的他說有不是我說的他說的我們有台大在那個\n巨龍路三段跟長興街口台大辦公所裡面有設一個站那是一個委託研究計畫進行的那個是委託研究計畫對所以我們有一些研究的數據好 這樣就提供給外委你如果要那些東西可以提供給你好 來我再問一題因為介紹我要問的是我已經多給你五分鐘了好不好但是那個零熟分半個小時都可以我再多五分鐘而已誰半個小時都可以\n林淑芬,每期質詢在她的後面,我都等很久了不,這樣大家都要報點錢,你也擺不定,你現在也沒時間說話,我時間夠了,好不好你趕高鐵,當我們在後面也是趕高鐵啊,我們也是在後面在演啊私底下可以問啦,好不好我就正式還沒有問好,再問嘛不是,我已經等了五分鐘了,好不好,謝謝不用再給我一分鐘不好意思,因為阿表人家在等,人家也要說話,發給人家時間的問題嘛,好不好,嘿\n趙薇 不可以大聲一點你每次來我都會給你多一點時間你不要多大聲一點我來的時候我都會多一點時間你不要這樣跟我說好不好我給你五分鐘 你說我多大聲一點不要這樣同事間不需要這樣時間到我就該換別人時間到我就說再給我再提你給我一分鐘我就多給你多一分鐘沒有 分鐘是前面的後面再多一分鐘我為什麼要在後面多給你一分鐘後面有委員的行程嘛\n每一個人都有形成,但是我每次跟您說我都等很久所以說我們還沒有問完,這個是不是在演戲我已經給你五分鐘了,其實再講下去已經六分鐘了你時間到47分21秒,現在是41.5分40分我怎麼沒有話跟你講對啊你就一直在講啊沒關係啊,不然你繼續講啊\n我尊重你,也希望你尊重我,好不好我當主席沒有再跟委員有任何的衝突啦,好不好時間到就請下去,我已經多給你現在多了七分鐘了你一直講怎麼是多給一分鐘啊你都沒講啊你都沒講啊好啦,時間趕,好不好,嘿,來給我一分鐘,可以嗎主席\n好,我想要問的是說我們環境部沒辦法做到,我們的衛福部衛福部有沒有辦法做到因為現在我們的PM0.1特別就是應付\n我們的胎兒還有長輩我們都要有特式的口罩嗎來戴嗎還是在家裡像我們台中都戴著口罩在家裡嗎所以我們是害怕這些會危害我們讓我們怕了就是因為這個PM0.1會導致中風四肢腦癌還有瘡\n在穿透我们的胎盘影响我们的健康所以我们希望我们团进部卫福部共同来去把这件事情\n好 謝委員 那個今天召委安排這個專報也就是因為PM0.1太為細了戴口罩是沒有辦法過濾掉的 它會進到我們人體 影響健康所以召委才安排這個專案報告所以我想這個我們會跟衛福部 不只衛福部 跟今天在座所有相關部會 我們都會一起來努力交通部 教育部等等 大家一起來我們要的就是你答應 這樣跟我們人民答應而已所以謝謝召委好 謝謝蔓緯 謝謝施政\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:11.772 --> 00:17.395\n就是要有請那個環境部的次長好請次長好\n\n00:25.035 --> 00:38.965\n市長好大家都知道說PM2.5是空氣污染的重要指標但其實更細更危害的就是我們的PM0.1這種連口罩都擋不住的超細的選服為例現在台灣幾乎沒人在監測也沒人在管制\n\n00:54.295 --> 01:05.981\n我們要請教一下我們的環境部現在有針對像台中火力發電廠這種的大型燃煤測試還有去監測我們PM0.1的排放嗎不是PM2.5喔是PM0.1有沒有專案的監測還有說如果\n\n01:21.630 --> 01:50.476\n我們火力全開對周邊的PM0.1的濃度影響我們有數據嗎跟委員報告一下那個剛剛委員講說歐盟的部分那歐盟是在2024年的11月的時候才要求就是歐盟的會員國在兩年之內他必須要去開始設監測站要去監測PM0.1也就是說去年\n\n01:51.596 --> 02:07.532\n年底的時候才開始要求那我們台灣是在112年的時候我們在台大的部分我們請台大一個教授團隊他們開始監測設在這一個基隆路三段長津街口那有一個PM0.1的監測站\n\n02:09.474 --> 02:36.321\n那在去年的二月的時候我們高雄也結合了這個美國太空總署NASA他們剛好有一個計畫要做亞洲地區的垂直的監測那國內總共有15所大學40個教授投入這個計畫所以在高雄部分我們也有PM0.1的監測站歐盟才從去年底要求兩年後要設所以這個部分也跟委員做一個說明\n\n02:38.086 --> 02:48.512\n你停留在上一個委員的時空我問的是台中我們台中我們問了台中是說我們有沒有這個數據不是要去講八郎八郎要怎麼做我們現在我們全國的PM0.1的來源比例有掌握嗎有數據嗎就是說燃煤電廠車流工業製作業等哪一個\n\n03:09.349 --> 03:15.174\n那個占比最高還有是哪一個我們想挖你的直接說就是在這個所以根本沒有就是PM0.1的排放的清單不是\n\n03:25.704 --> 03:30.167\n學校在做要是白人在做要是高雄在做台中的人民很可憐欸台中說到高雄你是要拍高雄的拍馬屁嗎所以重點就是我們要說有沒有這個數據有沒有這樣子的PM0.1的排放清單你有在做嗎\n\n03:47.579 --> 04:08.074\n問是你要做嗎?說國語聽不懂,說台語可以嗎?台語也可以啦台語就是台中市現在在台中台灣大道,還有中港路也設了一個站三十多年也設了一個站,有兩個站在台中所以台北市有一個,台中市有兩個,國中市有三個我們是PM0.1啊,不是說PM2.5進程就是大家都不要注意PM0.1這個問題啦\n\n04:14.679 --> 04:17.642\n現在歐盟開始鼓勵要求他們的會員局努力以後來設PMD的監測委員補就說我們台灣已經開始了已經推薦了所以我們已經開始我們開始但是我們就是有參考歐盟的標準對不對\n\n04:34.961 --> 04:37.322\n所以現在就是說我們的法規還有就是說我們的管制方法有沒有具體的時程表還有我們說一樣不要在演繹中因為大家都聽到演繹中討論中\n\n04:55.168 --> 04:58.131\n還有就是在檢討中所以我們希望的就是要說清楚我們進入哪一個階段還有沒有這個時程因為我們現在都在說我們PM0.1的法規還有管制的方法有沒有具體的這樣子的一個法規出來\n\n05:16.329 --> 05:17.530\n所以我們針對這樣子的排放的技術還有像說我們的燃煤電廠的設備有沒有評估過能不能處理PM0.1台中電廠這些空污防滯的設備\n\n05:33.243 --> 05:41.946\n他們能不能處理你說有多少有多少不是只有有就是說你講有但是很多人沒有看到也沒有沒有具體的所以我們希望說還是說怎麼樣如果處理我們的環境部是不是該要求台電淘汰設備或者是改為燃氣的發電這個部分我們要有具體的啦數據啦\n\n06:02.553 --> 06:28.850\n謝謝委員的質詢那這個很重要就是委員有點出一個重點PM0.1根據目前來看因為過去就是沒有去做監測嘛所以缺少這個先測的數據所以到目前為止還沒有世界衛生組織或是歐盟都還沒有管制標準現在沒有啦現在就是說在質疑裡面提醒大家要注意所以我們現在醫界聯盟我們很多公衛的專家也開始在提醒我們要注意PM0.1\n\n06:30.071 --> 06:58.434\n那我要講說PM0.1目前所看到的研究裡面大概指出最主要的來源是在道路環忙的交通的排放就是其一另外工業的排放還有剛剛您關心的就是電力業的部分也是來源之一所以這個部分我們一併把它納入這個數據的收集之後我們找出排放的來源才能夠擬出管制的對策那我們這個部分一定會跟歐盟接軌\n\n06:59.335 --> 07:15.443\n所以我很關心這個部分那至於台中電廠我們如果針對台中火力發電廠過去其實也是沒有人在測PM0.1嘛過去都只有做PM2.5那現在因為PM0.1是我們的重點了所以我們也會要求現在的監測\n\n07:16.784 --> 07:29.103\n因為他剛剛有講到電力業是主要來源之一所以當然我們會請台電這邊自己也要做這樣的一個自主的一個監測啦那我們這邊也會啟動相關的跟台東市政府一起來努力\n\n07:29.858 --> 07:38.125\n好我們希望是你說得對做得對啦不能說什麼歐盟在做我們就等歐盟我們是台灣啦我們就是要以我們台灣來去就是要怎麼樣去設或怎麼樣去做才能達到這個效果最後我想要請教一下就是針對因為我們現在已經在夏天了所以剛才也就說是不是改成就是燃氣的發電我們夏天燃\n\n07:57.922 --> 08:05.146\n燃煤的機組火力全開的狀況就像剛才你說的這個環境這邊的話就會變成是更空氣更汙染所以我們環境部有沒有和經濟部台電去協調過還是說優先用我們的燃氣機組就就嫌少這樣子的一個空汙\n\n08:21.175 --> 08:27.060\n這個部分有沒有記錄有沒有協調的記錄或者是會議的記錄是不是說代表我們的能源那個條度根本有沒有納入我們的空污的考量這個部分我們都要想要知道\n\n08:37.271 --> 08:40.114\n不能說就算別人怎樣我們就是要你怎樣我們才會知道結果所以我們希望就是說這個有沒有考慮到的空乎的考量還有我們看到的這些就是的\n\n08:53.527 --> 08:58.690\n黑煙他也看不到這是入門的廢炮甚至是入門的血液因為他這是很微小的所以我們不能再就是說研議再討論或者是別人在做我們要的是你在做所以我們希望說你要把這個排放清單要有沒有見不要讓我們台中的民眾就是\n\n09:20.560 --> 09:23.201\n所以請你明確交代就是說我們的環境部在PM0.1的作為能不能在這些東西就是在空氣裡面不能讓這些污染自由放任\n\n09:40.786 --> 10:04.141\n你做得到嗎你做的你要做要如何就是要規劃不要說別人我需要的是你你有沒有明確的是我們PM0.1就是先監測找來源定策略我們會這樣來管制謝謝好所以教育生的排放清單還有數據這個部分可以給我們嗎\n\n10:05.826 --> 10:14.328\n一個禮拜現在都還沒有監測怎麼會有清單呢你可以這樣說你的排測的清單就表示說你有這樣子的PM0.1你剛才不是有說嗎我們高雄哪裡哪裡我們台中也有啊你不是說有嗎有的話你就是要去用嘛台灣還沒有建置PM0.1的監測站\n\n10:29.332 --> 10:40.628\n剛才有說有喔我們有幾個站他說有幾個站喔我們召委你沒吃你沒吃的他說有不是我說的他說的我們有台大在那個\n\n10:44.301 --> 11:09.261\n巨龍路三段跟長興街口台大辦公所裡面有設一個站那是一個委託研究計畫進行的那個是委託研究計畫對所以我們有一些研究的數據好這樣就提供給外委你如果要那些東西可以提供給你好來我再問一題因為介紹我要問的是我已經多給你五分鐘了好不好但是那個零熟分半個小時都可以我再多五分鐘而已誰半個小時都可以\n\n11:09.841 --> 11:25.111\n林淑芬,每期質詢在她的後面,我都等很久了不,這樣大家都要報點錢,你也擺不定,你現在也沒時間說話,我時間夠了,好不好你趕高鐵,當我們在後面也是趕高鐵啊,我們也是在後面在演啊私底下可以問啦,好不好我就正式還沒有問好,再問嘛不是,我已經等了五分鐘了,好不好,謝謝不用再給我一分鐘不好意思,因為阿表人家在等,人家也要說話,發給人家時間的問題嘛,好不好,嘿\n\n11:39.501 --> 11:46.886\n趙薇不可以大聲一點你每次來我都會給你多一點時間你不要多大聲一點我來的時候我都會多一點時間你不要這樣跟我說好不好我給你五分鐘你說我多大聲一點不要這樣同事間不需要這樣時間到我就該換別人時間到我就說再給我再提你給我一分鐘我就多給你多一分鐘沒有分鐘是前面的後面再多一分鐘我為什麼要在後面多給你一分鐘後面有委員的行程嘛\n\n12:08.840 --> 12:27.739\n每一個人都有形成,但是我每次跟您說我都等很久所以說我們還沒有問完,這個是不是在演戲我已經給你五分鐘了,其實再講下去已經六分鐘了你時間到47分21秒,現在是41.5分40分我怎麼沒有話跟你講對啊你就一直在講啊沒關係啊,不然你繼續講啊\n\n12:31.957 --> 12:57.226\n我尊重你,也希望你尊重我,好不好我當主席沒有再跟委員有任何的衝突啦,好不好時間到就請下去,我已經多給你現在多了七分鐘了你一直講怎麼是多給一分鐘啊你都沒講啊你都沒講啊好啦,時間趕,好不好,嘿,來給我一分鐘,可以嗎主席\n\n13:02.430 --> 13:19.131\n好,我想要問的是說我們環境部沒辦法做到,我們的衛福部衛福部有沒有辦法做到因為現在我們的PM0.1特別就是應付\n\n13:19.656 --> 13:45.072\n我們的胎兒還有長輩我們都要有特式的口罩嗎來戴嗎還是在家裡像我們台中都戴著口罩在家裡嗎所以我們是害怕這些會危害我們讓我們怕了就是因為這個PM0.1會導致中風四肢腦癌還有瘡\n\n13:46.833 --> 13:57.362\n在穿透我们的胎盘影响我们的健康所以我们希望我们团进部卫福部共同来去把这件事情\n\n14:00.799 --> 14:29.889\n好謝委員那個今天召委安排這個專報也就是因為PM0.1太為細了戴口罩是沒有辦法過濾掉的它會進到我們人體影響健康所以召委才安排這個專案報告所以我想這個我們會跟衛福部不只衛福部跟今天在座所有相關部會我們都會一起來努力交通部教育部等等大家一起來我們要的就是你答應這樣跟我們人民答應而已所以謝謝召委好謝謝蔓緯謝謝施政\n\n","segments":[{"start":11.772,"end":17.395,"text":"就是要有請那個環境部的次長好 請次長好"},{"start":25.035,"end":38.965,"text":"市長好大家都知道說PM2.5是空氣污染的重要指標但其實更細更危害的就是我們的PM0.1這種連口罩都擋不住的超細的選服為例現在台灣幾乎沒人在監測也沒人在管制"},{"start":54.295,"end":65.981,"text":"我們要請教一下我們的環境部現在有針對像台中火力發電廠這種的大型燃煤測試還有去監測我們PM0.1的排放嗎不是PM2.5喔是PM0.1有沒有專案的監測還有說如果"},{"start":81.63,"end":110.476,"text":"我們火力全開對周邊的PM0.1的濃度影響我們有數據嗎跟委員報告一下那個剛剛委員講說歐盟的部分那歐盟是在2024年的11月的時候才要求就是歐盟的會員國在兩年之內他必須要去開始設監測站要去監測PM0.1也就是說去年"},{"start":111.596,"end":127.532,"text":"年底的時候才開始要求那我們台灣是在112年的時候我們在台大的部分我們請台大一個教授團隊他們開始監測設在這一個基隆路三段長津街口那有一個PM0.1的監測站"},{"start":129.474,"end":156.321,"text":"那在去年的二月的時候我們高雄也結合了這個美國太空總署NASA他們剛好有一個計畫要做亞洲地區的垂直的監測那國內總共有15所大學40個教授投入這個計畫所以在高雄部分我們也有PM0.1的監測站歐盟才從去年底要求兩年後要設所以這個部分也跟委員做一個說明"},{"start":158.086,"end":168.512,"text":"你停留在上一個委員的時空 我問的是台中我們台中我們問了台中是說我們有沒有這個數據不是要去講八郎 八郎要怎麼做我們現在我們全國的PM0.1的來源比例有掌握嗎有數據嗎 就是說燃煤 電廠 車流工業 製作業等哪一個"},{"start":189.349,"end":195.174,"text":"那個占比最高還有是哪一個我們想挖你的直接說就是在這個所以根本沒有就是PM0.1的排放的清單不是"},{"start":205.704,"end":210.167,"text":"學校在做 要是白人在做 要是高雄在做台中的人民很可憐欸台中說到高雄 你是要拍高雄的拍馬屁嗎所以重點就是我們要說有沒有這個數據有沒有這樣子的PM0.1的排放清單你有在做嗎"},{"start":227.579,"end":248.074,"text":"問是你要做嗎?說國語聽不懂,說台語可以嗎?台語也可以啦台語就是台中市現在在台中台灣大道,還有中港路也設了一個站三十多年也設了一個站,有兩個站在台中所以台北市有一個,台中市有兩個,國中市有三個我們是PM0.1啊,不是說PM2.5進程就是大家都不要注意PM0.1這個問題啦"},{"start":254.679,"end":257.642,"text":"現在歐盟開始鼓勵要求他們的會員局 努力以後來設PMD的監測委員補就說我們台灣已經開始了 已經推薦了所以我們已經開始 我們開始但是我們就是有參考歐盟的標準 對不對"},{"start":274.961,"end":277.322,"text":"所以現在就是說我們的法規還有就是說我們的管制方法有沒有具體的時程表還有我們說一樣不要在演繹中因為大家都聽到演繹中 討論中"},{"start":295.168,"end":298.131,"text":"還有就是在檢討中所以我們希望的就是要說清楚我們進入哪一個階段還有沒有這個時程因為我們現在都在說我們PM0.1的法規還有管制的方法有沒有具體的這樣子的一個法規出來"},{"start":316.329,"end":317.53,"text":"所以我們針對這樣子的排放的技術還有像說我們的燃煤電廠的設備有沒有評估過能不能處理PM0.1台中電廠這些空污防滯的設備"},{"start":333.243,"end":341.946,"text":"他們能不能處理你說有多少有多少不是只有有 就是說你講有但是很多人沒有看到也沒有沒有具體的所以我們希望說還是說怎麼樣如果處理我們的環境部是不是該要求台電淘汰設備或者是改為燃氣的發電這個部分我們要有具體的啦數據啦"},{"start":362.553,"end":388.85,"text":"謝謝委員的質詢那這個很重要就是委員有點出一個重點PM0.1根據目前來看因為過去就是沒有去做監測嘛所以缺少這個先測的數據所以到目前為止還沒有世界衛生組織或是歐盟都還沒有管制標準現在沒有啦現在就是說在質疑裡面提醒大家要注意所以我們現在醫界聯盟我們很多公衛的專家也開始在提醒我們要注意PM0.1"},{"start":390.071,"end":418.434,"text":"那我要講說PM0.1目前所看到的研究裡面大概指出最主要的來源是在道路環忙的交通的排放就是其一另外工業的排放還有剛剛您關心的就是電力業的部分也是來源之一所以這個部分我們一併把它納入這個數據的收集之後我們找出排放的來源才能夠擬出管制的對策那我們這個部分一定會跟歐盟接軌"},{"start":419.335,"end":435.443,"text":"所以我很關心這個部分那至於台中電廠我們如果針對台中火力發電廠過去其實也是沒有人在測PM0.1嘛過去都只有做PM2.5那現在因為PM0.1是我們的重點了所以我們也會要求現在的監測"},{"start":436.784,"end":449.103,"text":"因為他剛剛有講到電力業是主要來源之一所以當然我們會請台電這邊自己也要做這樣的一個自主的一個監測啦那我們這邊也會啟動相關的跟台東市政府一起來努力"},{"start":449.858,"end":458.125,"text":"好 我們希望是你說得對 做得對啦 不能說什麼歐盟在做 我們就等歐盟 我們是台灣啦 我們就是要以我們台灣來去就是要怎麼樣去設 或怎麼樣去做 才能達到這個效果最後我想要請教一下 就是針對因為我們現在已經在夏天了 所以剛才也就說 是不是改成就是燃氣的發電 我們夏天燃"},{"start":477.922,"end":485.146,"text":"燃煤的機組火力全開的狀況就像剛才你說的這個環境這邊的話就會變成是更空氣更汙染所以我們環境部有沒有和經濟部台電去協調過還是說優先用我們的燃氣機組就就嫌少這樣子的一個空汙"},{"start":501.175,"end":507.06,"text":"這個部分有沒有記錄有沒有協調的記錄或者是會議的記錄是不是說代表我們的能源那個條度根本有沒有納入我們的空污的考量這個部分我們都要想要知道"},{"start":517.271,"end":520.114,"text":"不能說就算別人怎樣我們就是要你怎樣我們才會知道結果所以我們希望就是說這個有沒有考慮到的空乎的考量還有我們看到的這些就是的"},{"start":533.527,"end":538.69,"text":"黑煙 他也看不到這是入門的廢炮甚至是入門的血液因為他這是很微小的所以我們不能再就是說研議再討論或者是別人在做我們要的是你在做所以我們希望說你要把這個排放清單要有沒有見不要讓我們台中的民眾就是"},{"start":560.56,"end":563.201,"text":"所以請你明確交代就是說我們的環境部在PM0.1的作為能不能在這些東西就是在空氣裡面不能讓這些污染自由放任"},{"start":580.786,"end":604.141,"text":"你做得到嗎 你做的 你要做要如何 就是要規劃不要說別人 我需要的是你 你有沒有明確的是 我們PM0.1就是先監測 找來源 定策略我們會這樣來管制 謝謝好 所以教育生的排放清單 還有數據 這個部分可以給我們嗎"},{"start":605.826,"end":614.328,"text":"一個禮拜 現在都還沒有監測 怎麼會有清單呢你可以這樣說 你的排測的清單就表示說 你有這樣子的PM0.1你剛才不是有說嗎 我們高雄哪裡哪裡 我們台中也有啊你不是說有嗎 有的話你就是要去用嘛台灣還沒有建置PM0.1的監測站"},{"start":629.332,"end":640.628,"text":"剛才有說有喔我們有幾個站他說有幾個站喔我們召委你沒吃你沒吃的他說有不是我說的他說的我們有台大在那個"},{"start":644.301,"end":669.261,"text":"巨龍路三段跟長興街口台大辦公所裡面有設一個站那是一個委託研究計畫進行的那個是委託研究計畫對所以我們有一些研究的數據好 這樣就提供給外委你如果要那些東西可以提供給你好 來我再問一題因為介紹我要問的是我已經多給你五分鐘了好不好但是那個零熟分半個小時都可以我再多五分鐘而已誰半個小時都可以"},{"start":669.841,"end":685.111,"text":"林淑芬,每期質詢在她的後面,我都等很久了不,這樣大家都要報點錢,你也擺不定,你現在也沒時間說話,我時間夠了,好不好你趕高鐵,當我們在後面也是趕高鐵啊,我們也是在後面在演啊私底下可以問啦,好不好我就正式還沒有問好,再問嘛不是,我已經等了五分鐘了,好不好,謝謝不用再給我一分鐘不好意思,因為阿表人家在等,人家也要說話,發給人家時間的問題嘛,好不好,嘿"},{"start":699.501,"end":706.886,"text":"趙薇 不可以大聲一點你每次來我都會給你多一點時間你不要多大聲一點我來的時候我都會多一點時間你不要這樣跟我說好不好我給你五分鐘 你說我多大聲一點不要這樣同事間不需要這樣時間到我就該換別人時間到我就說再給我再提你給我一分鐘我就多給你多一分鐘沒有 分鐘是前面的後面再多一分鐘我為什麼要在後面多給你一分鐘後面有委員的行程嘛"},{"start":728.84,"end":747.739,"text":"每一個人都有形成,但是我每次跟您說我都等很久所以說我們還沒有問完,這個是不是在演戲我已經給你五分鐘了,其實再講下去已經六分鐘了你時間到47分21秒,現在是41.5分40分我怎麼沒有話跟你講對啊你就一直在講啊沒關係啊,不然你繼續講啊"},{"start":751.957,"end":777.226,"text":"我尊重你,也希望你尊重我,好不好我當主席沒有再跟委員有任何的衝突啦,好不好時間到就請下去,我已經多給你現在多了七分鐘了你一直講怎麼是多給一分鐘啊你都沒講啊你都沒講啊好啦,時間趕,好不好,嘿,來給我一分鐘,可以嗎主席"},{"start":782.43,"end":799.131,"text":"好,我想要問的是說我們環境部沒辦法做到,我們的衛福部衛福部有沒有辦法做到因為現在我們的PM0.1特別就是應付"},{"start":799.656,"end":825.072,"text":"我們的胎兒還有長輩我們都要有特式的口罩嗎來戴嗎還是在家裡像我們台中都戴著口罩在家裡嗎所以我們是害怕這些會危害我們讓我們怕了就是因為這個PM0.1會導致中風四肢腦癌還有瘡"},{"start":826.833,"end":837.362,"text":"在穿透我们的胎盘影响我们的健康所以我们希望我们团进部卫福部共同来去把这件事情"},{"start":840.799,"end":869.889,"text":"好 謝委員 那個今天召委安排這個專報也就是因為PM0.1太為細了戴口罩是沒有辦法過濾掉的 它會進到我們人體 影響健康所以召委才安排這個專案報告所以我想這個我們會跟衛福部 不只衛福部 跟今天在座所有相關部會 我們都會一起來努力交通部 教育部等等 大家一起來我們要的就是你答應 這樣跟我們人民答應而已所以謝謝召委好 謝謝蔓緯 謝謝施政"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":709,"blocks":[["麥委員玉珍：（11時42分）主席好，有請環境部次長。"],["主席：請次長。"],["沈次長志修：委員好。"],["麥委員玉珍：次長好。大家都知道PM2.5是空氣污染的重要指標，但其實更細、更危害的就是PM0.1，這種連口罩都擋不住的超細懸浮微粒，現在臺灣幾乎沒有人在監測，也沒有人在管制，我們要請教一下環境部，現在有針對像臺中火力發電廠這種大型燃煤設施去監測PM0.1的排放嗎？不是PM2.5喔，是PM0.1，有沒有專案監測？如果我們火力全開，對周邊PM0.1的濃度影響，你們有數據嗎？"],["沈次長志修：跟委員報告一下，剛剛委員講到歐盟的部分，歐盟是在2024年11月的時候才要求歐盟會員國在兩年之內必須要開始設監測站去監測PM0.1，也就是說，去年年底的時候才開始要求。我們臺灣是在112年的時候，我們委請臺大一位教授的團隊開始監測，在基隆路三段、長興街口設有一個PM0.1的監測站；在去年2月的時候，高雄也結合了美國太空總署（NASA），他們剛好有一個計畫要做亞洲地區的垂直監測，國內總共有15所大學、40位教授投入這個計畫，所以在高雄我們也有PM0.1的監測站。而歐盟是去年底才要求會員國兩年後要設監測站，這個部分也跟委員做一個說明。"],["麥委員玉珍：你停留在上一個委員的時空，我要問的是臺中啦，我問的是臺中的部分，你們有沒有這個數據？"],["沈次長志修：過去……"],["麥委員玉珍：不是要去講別人怎麼做怎麼做，你們現在對於全國的PM0.1的來源及比例有掌握嗎？有數據嗎？就是燃煤電廠、車流、工業、製造業等，哪一個的占比最高？我們希望你能直接說明，而不是去講別人怎麼講怎麼做，是不是根本沒有PM0.1的排放清單？不是學校在做還是別人在做，或是高雄在做，臺中的人民很可憐耶，我現在問的是臺中，你說到高雄去，你是要拍高雄的馬屁嗎？所以重點就是你們有沒有這個數據？有沒有PM0.1的排放清單？你們有沒有在做啦？我問的是你們有沒有要做，如果說國語你聽不懂，說臺語也可以吧？"],["沈次長志修：用臺語也可以，以臺中市來說，現在臺中的臺灣大道，也就是以前的中港路，也設了一個站，西屯那邊也設一個站，臺中設有兩個站。所以現在是臺北市有一個、臺中市有兩個、高雄市有三個，北中南共計有六個。"],["麥委員玉珍：我問的是PM0.1，不是PM2.5喔！"],["沈次長志修：是PM0.1，之前大家都沒有在注意PM0.1這個問題，歐盟去年開始要求他們的會員國在兩年內要設置PM0.1的監測站。而我跟委員報告的就是，我們臺灣已經開始做了，已經起步了，我們沒有比人家慢啦！"],["麥委員玉珍：所以我們已經開始了嘛？"],["沈次長志修：是。"],["麥委員玉珍：好，我們已經開始了，但是我們有參考歐盟的標準，對不對？不是歐盟叫我們怎麼做，我們是參考。次長，現在我們的法規及管制方法有沒有具體的時程表？我希望你不要回答「在研議中」喔，因為每次都聽你們說「在研議中」、「在討論中」，還有「在檢討中」，我們希望你們能夠說清楚現在進入哪一個階段？有沒有相關的時程表？因為我們現在都在說PM0.1的法規及管制方法，有沒有具體的法規出來？針對這樣的排放技術，有沒有評估過燃煤電廠的設備能不能處理PM0.1？臺中電廠的這些空污防制設備能不能處理？你說有，有哪一支？又有多少？不是只有「有」、不是你講「有」就好，但是很多人沒有看到，也沒有具體的數據，所以我們希望的是，如果要處理，我們的環境部是不是應該要求台電淘汰設備或者是改為燃氣發電，這個部分要有具體的數據啦！"],["沈次長志修：好，謝謝委員的質詢，這個很重要，委員也點出了一個重點，有關PM0.1，因為過去沒有做監測，所以缺少監測的數據，到目前為止，世界衛生組織或是歐盟都還沒有管制標準，現在還沒有，現在是在指引裡面提醒大家要注意，所以現在我們的醫界聯盟及很多公衛專家也開始在提醒大家要注意PM0.1。","我要講的就是說，以PM0.1目前所看到的研究，大概指出最主要的來源是在道路繁忙的交通排放，這是其一。另外，工業排放及剛剛您關心的電力業的部分也是來源之一，所以這個部分我們一併把它納入數據的蒐集之後，我們找出排放的來源，才能夠擬出管制的對策，這個部分我們一定會跟歐盟接軌，委員關心的這個部分。至於臺中電廠，以台中火力發電廠來說，過去其實也沒有人在測PM0.1嘛，過去都只有做PM2.5，現在因為PM0.1是我們的重點了，所以我們也會要求去做監測，因為剛剛有講到電力業也是主要來源之一，所以當然我們會請台電自己也要做這樣一個自主的監測，我們這邊也會啟動相關的，跟臺中市政府一起來努力。"],["麥委員玉珍：好，我們希望你要說到做到啦，不能說歐盟在做了我們就等歐盟的結果，我們是臺灣，我們就是要以我們臺灣的情況為依據，看看要怎麼樣去設或怎麼樣去做才能達到這個效果。","最後，我想要請教一下，因為現在已經是夏天了，所以剛才也說到是不是改成燃氣發電，夏天燃煤機組火力全開的狀況，就像剛才你說的，會導致環境這邊的空氣更污染，所以環境部有沒有和經濟部、台電去協調過，是否可以優先使用燃氣機組來減少空污，這個部分有沒有協調的紀錄或者是會議紀錄？我們的能源調度有沒有納入空污的考量？這些部分我們都想要知道，不能都說別人怎樣怎樣，我們希望知道的是你們怎麼做啦，這樣我們才會知道結果。所以我們希望知道這個部分有沒有納入空污的考量？還有我們看到的這些黑煙，可能就跟著呼吸進入我們的肺泡，甚至進入我們的血液，因為它這是很微小的，所以我們不能再說「研議」、「討論」，或者是別人在做，我們要的是你在做，所以我們希望你必須把這個排放清單提出來，不要讓我們臺中民眾的聲音沒人聽，講出來的沒人理，所以請你明確交代，環境部在PM0.1的作為裡面能不能針對這些東西，就是不能放任這些污染在空氣裡面自由排放，你做得到嗎？是你們要去做的喔，你們要怎麼樣做或是相關規劃，不要說別人怎麼做，我要的是你有沒有明確的相關規劃。"],["沈次長志修：是，針對PM0.1我們就是先監測、找來源、訂策略，我們會這樣來管制。謝謝。"],["麥委員玉珍：好，所以相關的排放清單及數據，這個部分可以給我們嗎？一個禮拜？"],["沈次長志修：現在都還沒有監測，怎麼會有清單呢？給我們……"],["麥委員玉珍：你剛才有說到你的排測清單，就表示你有這樣的PM0.1……"],["沈次長志修：PM0.1沒有清單。"],["麥委員玉珍：你剛才不是說高雄哪裡哪裡有設站，臺中也有啊，你不是說有了嗎？"],["主席（劉委員建國）：麥委員，不好意思……"],["麥委員玉珍：有的話你就是要去用嘛！"],["主席：麥委員，臺灣還沒有建置PM0.1的監測站。"],["麥委員玉珍：他剛才說有啊！"],["沈次長志修：我們有幾個站。"],["麥委員玉珍：他說有幾個站啊！召委，剛才你不在，他說有喔！不是我說的，是他說的。"],["主席：你們已經有監測站？"],["沈次長志修：在基隆路三段跟長興街口的臺大環工所裡面有設一個站，那是委託研究計畫在進行的。"],["主席：那個是委託研究計畫？"],["沈次長志修：對，我們有一些研究的數據。"],["主席：好，那你就提供給麥委員。"],["沈次長志修：如果委員要那個東西，我們可以提供給委員。"],["主席：好，謝謝。"],["麥委員玉珍：好，我再問一題，因為接下來我要問的是……"],["主席：麥委員，我已經多給你5分鐘了，好不好？後面還有委員……"],["麥委員玉珍：但是林淑芬講半個小時都可以，我才多5分鐘而已。"],["主席：誰半個小時都可以？"],["麥委員玉珍：林淑芬，每次質詢排在他的後面我都要等很久。"],["主席：沒有啦，如果大家都要講半小時，那你也排不上啊！現在也不還輪不到你發言啊！時間到了，好不好？你剩下的問題可以私底下……"],["麥委員玉珍：你趕高鐵，但我們在後面也是趕高鐵啊……"],["主席：你私底下可以……"],["麥委員玉珍：我們也是在後面再延啊！"],["主席：你私底下可以問啦，好不好？"],["麥委員玉珍：我就是還沒有問好，所以要再問嘛！"],["主席：不是，我已經多給你5分鐘了，好不好？謝謝！麥委員，謝謝啦！"],["麥委員玉珍：再給我1分鐘。"],["主席：不好意思啦！因為後面有委員在等，還有其他委員要發言，有時間的問題嘛，好不好？"],["麥委員玉珍：我們召委不能大小眼！"],["主席：你每次來，我都有給你多一點時間，你不要說我大小眼！"],["麥委員玉珍：我來的時候……"],["主席：我的眼睛確實是比較小，這是天生的，但你不要這樣說我，好不好？我已經多給你5分鐘了，你說我大小眼，不要這樣！同事間不需要這樣！時間到了該換別人就換別人。"],["麥委員玉珍：不是，我時間到，我就說請你再給我1分鐘。"],["主席：我就已經多給你5分鐘了嘛！我就已經多給你5分鐘了！"],["麥委員玉珍：多5分鐘是前面的，後面再多1分鐘都不行嗎？"],["主席：我為什麼在後面要再多給你1分鐘？後面有委員的行程嘛！"],["麥委員玉珍：每一個人都有行程，但是我每次在林淑芬後面都等很久……"],["主席：來，請下去了，好不好？請下去。"],["麥委員玉珍：跟你說我們還沒有問完，這是不是在演戲？"],["主席：我已經給你五分多鐘了，其實再講下去已經六分多鐘了，你的時間到是47分21秒，現在是11點54分……"],["麥委員玉珍：你有讓我講嗎？"],["主席：我怎麼沒有讓你講？"],["麥委員玉珍：對啊！你就一直在講啊！"],["主席：沒關係啊！不然你繼續講啊！"],["麥委員玉珍：對啊！"],["主席：我尊重你，也希望你尊重我，好不好？"],["麥委員玉珍：我也尊重，我說……"],["主席：我當主席沒有在跟委員有任何的衝突啦，好不好？"],["麥委員玉珍：我就跟你說再給我1分鐘，所以我就說……"],["主席：時間到就請你下去，我已經多給你時間了，到現在已經多了7分鐘了！"],["麥委員玉珍：你一直講，怎麼是多給1分鐘！"],["主席：你都沒講嗎？"],["麥委員玉珍：沒辦法讓我講啊！對不對？"],["主席：你都沒講嗎？"],["麥委員玉珍：你不讓我講，我就沒辦法講嘛！"],["主席：好啦，時間到了，好不好？"],["麥委員玉珍：再給我1分鐘，可以嗎？主席？"],["主席：好，再給你1分鐘。"],["麥委員玉珍：我想要問的就是我們的環境部沒有辦法做到，那衛福部有沒有辦法做到？因為現在PM0.1特別會對孕婦、胎兒、長輩造成傷害，難道我們都要戴特殊的口罩嗎？還是在家裡也要戴？像我們臺中在家裡也都戴著口罩，所以我們是害怕這些會危害我們，因為這個PM0.1會導致中風、失智、腦癌，會穿透孕婦的胎盤，影響我們的健康，所以我們希望環境部、衛福部共同去把這件事情做好，我們只是希望這樣而已。"],["沈次長志修：好，謝謝委員。今天召委安排這個專報，也就是因為PM0.1太微細了，戴口罩是沒有辦法過濾掉的，它會進到我們人體影響健康，所以召委才會安排這個專案報告。我想我們會跟衛福部，不只衛福部，跟今天在座的所有相關部會，我們都會一起來努力，交通部、教育部等等大家一起來。"],["麥委員玉珍：好，我們要的就是你答應這樣做，謝謝召委。"],["主席：謝謝麥委員，謝謝次長。","接下來請何欣純委員，何欣純委員，何欣純委員不在。","請陳瑩委員做詢答。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":178,"meet_id":"委員會-11-3-26-18","speakers":["劉建國","陳昭姿","林月琴","陳菁徽","邱鎮軍","王育敏","涂權吉","王正旭","黃秀芳","林淑芬","麥玉珍","陳瑩","楊曜","廖偉翔","蘇清泉"],"page_start":119,"meetingDate":["2025-06-25"],"gazette_id":"1146302","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1146302_00003"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第18次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請環境部部長、交通部、教育部、衛生福利部、經濟部就「因應歐盟管制超細懸浮微粒\n（PM0.1），我國空污管制政策如何精進、提升，保障國人健康安全」進行專題報告，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1146302_00002"}}}