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771.468, \"score\": 0.938}, {\"word\": \"說\"}, {\"word\": \"九\", \"start\": 771.468, \"end\": 771.648, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"月\", \"start\": 771.648, \"end\": 771.929, \"score\": 0.889}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"再\", \"start\": 771.929, \"end\": 772.089, \"score\": 0.873}, {\"word\": \"送\", \"start\": 772.089, \"end\": 772.329, \"score\": 0.959}, {\"word\": \"件\", \"start\": 772.329, \"end\": 773.169, \"score\": 0.975}, {\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 773.169, \"end\": 773.81, \"score\": 0.905}, {\"word\": \"針\"}, {\"word\": \"對\"}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 773.81, \"end\": 773.99, \"score\": 0.904}, {\"word\": \"分\", \"start\": 773.99, \"end\": 774.35, \"score\": 0.936}, {\"word\": \"鐵\"}, {\"word\": \"道\", \"start\": 774.35, \"end\": 774.51, \"score\": 0.966}, {\"word\": \"局\", \"start\": 774.51, \"end\": 774.59, \"score\": 0.996}, {\"word\": \"長\"}, {\"word\": \"還\"}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 774.59, \"end\": 774.71, \"score\": 0.833}, {\"word\": \"沒\", \"start\": 774.71, \"end\": 774.83, \"score\": 0.831}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 774.83, \"end\": 774.951, \"score\": 0.833}, {\"word\": \"什\", \"start\": 774.951, \"end\": 774.971, \"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"麼\"}, {\"word\": \"話\"}, {\"word\": \"說\"}]}, {\"start\": 776.37, \"end\": 799.423, \"text\": \"謝謝委員 委員去年特別是有質詢也只是希望我親自來召開這個會議那當時我也開了那現在所講的這些問題其實在當時都跟新北市政府有做過溝通那我們極度的希望新北市政府的修正報告能夠把這個土地開發效益因為所有全國的計畫土地開發效益都是納為自償性經費而不是納為未來營運期間的一種收入\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 776.37, \"end\": 776.45, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 776.45, \"end\": 777.151, \"score\": 0.848}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"去\", \"start\": 777.151, \"end\": 777.311, \"score\": 0.877}, {\"word\": \"年\", \"start\": 777.311, \"end\": 777.551, \"score\": 0.97}, {\"word\": \"特\", \"start\": 777.551, \"end\": 777.671, \"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"別\", \"start\": 777.671, \"end\": 777.931, \"score\": 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{\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"營\"}, {\"word\": \"運\"}, {\"word\": \"期\", \"start\": 798.903, \"end\": 799.043, \"score\": 0.849}, {\"word\": \"間\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 799.043, \"end\": 799.243, \"score\": 0.876}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 799.243, \"end\": 799.343, \"score\": 0.82}, {\"word\": \"種\"}, {\"word\": \"收\", \"start\": 799.343, \"end\": 799.403, \"score\": 0.659}, {\"word\": \"入\", \"start\": 799.403, \"end\": 799.423, \"score\": 0.0}]}, {\"start\": 801.664, \"end\": 821.273, \"text\": \"那因為這樣子的一個做法應該是新北市政府是首例那因為此例一開的話會影響到所有捷運計畫的一種所謂審議上面的公平性所以這一題我們是真的希望新北市政府能夠這個按照我們的這樣的一個期望去做修正那我們會盡速來協助這個案子往下一個程序來進行\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 801.664, \"end\": 801.804, \"score\": 0.803}, {\"word\": \"因\", \"start\": 801.804, \"end\": 802.244, \"score\": 0.809}, {\"word\": \"為\"}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"樣\"}, {\"word\": \"子\", \"start\": 802.244, \"end\": 802.344, \"score\": 0.902}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 802.344, \"end\": 802.424, \"score\": 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\"待\", \"start\": 865.983, \"end\": 866.123, \"score\": 0.857}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 866.123, \"end\": 866.283, \"score\": 0.875}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"再\", \"start\": 866.283, \"end\": 866.403, \"score\": 0.843}, {\"word\": \"跟\", \"start\": 866.403, \"end\": 866.563, \"score\": 0.905}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 866.563, \"end\": 866.923, \"score\": 0.867}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"報\"}, {\"word\": \"告\", \"start\": 866.923, \"end\": 867.264, \"score\": 0.981}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 867.264, \"end\": 867.584, \"score\": 0.942}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 867.584, \"end\": 867.604, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"員\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:01,226 --> 00:00:30,064\n主席謝謝麻煩請陳部長我們陳部長還有我們鐵道局楊局長好鐵道局楊局長兩位董事長還沒有鄭董事長鄭董事長委員好好部長好來鄭董事長跟鐵道局局長好來請來鄭董事長我先請教一下本來以為說要幫你點播一首陶金營的太委屈啊那當然你今天早上又說不委屈啊那\n\n2\n00:00:30,967 --> 00:00:49,629\n大家說好話啦新官上任做一做啦但是我想先請教十年的高鐵人可不可以講一下說你覺得現在的新任的石董事長你覺得有哪裡是比你更優質的地方讓你覺得是說可以勝任高鐵的這個董事長工作\n\n3\n00:00:51,383 --> 00:01:12,523\n我想這個對這部分我沒有評論沒有評論我想石董市長他那部長在找您就說要從高鐵轉換台鐵的時候你那時候有沒有問過說誰來接高鐵我並沒有這樣的也沒有問也不知道說誰來接高鐵反正部長找你是部長跟您談\n\n4\n00:01:13,649 --> 00:01:38,033\n是的部長跟你談就是說你雖然今年一月才從十年的總經理扶正變成董事長但是現在要你去接台鐵燙手山芋確實是部長有跟我講這樣的事情然後你也沒有問說那到底誰來接高鐵我沒有問沒有問那現在揭曉了你也不覺得有任何的奇怪\n\n5\n00:01:38,752 --> 00:02:06,455\n我想重點是這樣來過來也不會重點是說我被這個指派的這個任務呢我是不是有能力去做這個事情好董事長我非常肯定您過去的專業我也認為說您現在願意來台鐵這個是要把台鐵整頓好台鐵我們很期待所以你提到三個部分安全準點以及便捷這一點本期肯定但要怎麼做來先請教\n\n6\n00:02:07,536 --> 00:02:33,846\n現在台鐵也是有多事之秋啦不管是現在漲價的部分或者是說戰務員對旅客咆哮還是說其實更多是很多的乘客有一些乘客真的會有攻擊戰務員的狀況這也過去時有所聞嘛對不對那你要怎麼樣來做會讓台鐵人覺得你可以真真正正跟台鐵人站在一起並且保護台鐵人\n\n7\n00:02:34,687 --> 00:02:52,445\n我想最重要的陳國剛才也報告這個一定要告訴我們所有的員工我們是做的是運輸服務業運輸服務業最重要的是要以客的需求為導向以客最重要的就是安全最重要的就是準點那就方便便捷\n\n8\n00:02:53,286 --> 00:03:22,185\n那在這個部分的話呢我們一定要努力來做那但是呢這個所有事情要做成一定是要員工來做的我也認為要有一個滿意的顧客的話一定要先有一個快樂的員工所以在快樂的員工之下呢我要一定要很care我的員工呢他是不是能夠足夠的安心所以他的福利這些呢是我要努力的一個重點福利努力的部分我有看到你上禮拜有跟台鐵工會有先做過座談了是那\n\n9\n00:03:22,745 --> 00:03:47,354\n是企業工會嘛對不對企業工會是那產業工會有沒有考慮要做談我想我們來看因為目前來看我們先從企業工會來所以產業工會還沒有安排目前還沒有好那各地咧各地的員工因為看到你們秀出的資料也是幾位代表嘛那各地的員工有沒有現在要去做一個整個來去做了解\n\n10\n00:03:47,774 --> 00:04:15,331\n有的我們陸續的會計畫是什麼陸續的會到各區去像我上禮拜的話呢第三第三天的話上週第三我就到那個台東去那台東去那邊的話呢就是有來自於各地的我們這個壘球隊的代表那事實上也是代表著整個我們全國代表你現在是行動治理嘛來那請教那個工會這邊有提出來說希望能夠提高待遇的部分你怎麼看\n\n11\n00:04:16,260 --> 00:04:32,690\n我想他提出來的這部分的話有兩個我想我們馬上可以來處理的一個就是我們的這個夜間津貼的部分我覺得這個確實這個夜間津貼一個小時120塊其實太低了是那這部分還遠低於現在10星\n\n12\n00:04:33,470 --> 00:04:52,197\n是因為整個這個十幾年前訂的嘛那第二個呢就是我們的這個主管的加擠這一部分我覺得主管加擠這一部分現在也是跟市場的這個行情差太多所以我這兩部分的話呢那員工的話這個尤其在基層的這個夜間今天能夠安他們的心\n\n13\n00:04:52,657 --> 00:05:00,467\n另外在這個主管進貼的話最主要是我們尤其是中間幹部他們很需要這個進貼來鼓勵他們否則的話像我們現在一個問題就是說我們有90%的員工還是原來的所謂的有公務員資格的\n\n14\n00:05:09,178 --> 00:05:24,878\n但是只有新人的話轉正只有10%那這個10%跟這個裡面的話你一定要有一個激勵的作用那麼才能夠抓住他們的心我認為說一定要把我們的我這個內部各個就是我們的員工能夠把他們的整個環境\n\n15\n00:05:27,822 --> 00:05:50,401\n工資的是友善職場做好以後讓員工能夠得到說這個公司是很care我們的那他才能夠服務旅客是啊董事長但是你講了半天你還是沒有講清楚這個夜間加急跟這個津貼120元要怎麼調整我們現在提出來多久能夠調整我們現在再提出來來跟工會這邊再討論這個我們會盡快的來定案標準是什麼\n\n16\n00:05:56,389 --> 00:06:25,769\n標準就是我希望至少就是說我們的物價指數十年來這個物價指數應該是最合理的最低的門檻讓我們用這樣來做過去我知道我們要增加薪水的時候用人費用跟我們的營收的占比有一個上限在那邊這是我們的Handicap但是因為今年開始我們調整票價以後我們營收的話我們分母變大了所以我們這個上限就會有空間\n\n17\n00:06:26,169 --> 00:06:52,395\n好本席也正想問啦因為才剛調整完票價不會因為這個夜間的加急以及津貼再調整之後又要再調整票價不會啦不會不會啦這你保證啦好台鐵的管理我們給時間但是要看到成績便捷安全跟準點最基本的要求這一點不過分啦所以拜託鄭董事長這邊一定要說到做到我全力以赴\n\n18\n00:06:53,235 --> 00:07:16,198\n來抱歉部長時間比較有限但是還是兩個問題跟我們地方有相關我一定要跟您就教雙城巴士上國道這個部分是本席過去一起爭取很久從去年前年我想質詢的時候你也承諾那現在已經有曙光是說預計今年年底會上路有可能那但是雙城巴士的部分造價比較高一台可能將近兩千萬\n\n19\n00:07:17,219 --> 00:07:42,852\n那有些業者開始在講是說那現在是不是比照現行巴士也有補貼的部分來做一些相關補貼我們有沒有相關辦法報告委員我們公共運輸計畫裡面會放進來是所以這個部分的補貼我們會盡量來協助業者因為我現在也有聽到業者在反映對這個政策即便是上路了他們的成本是個問題那另外就是說但是未來可以再我們想說是\n\n20\n00:07:43,332 --> 00:08:10,046\n優勢是大於劣勢嘛第一載的量乘客人數多大家可以上車的多也減少車體的空間所以說對於國道的通暢度減能減碳碳排也會降低所以這個政策我們是支持而且我們在往前推進那委員在關心的這個對業者的補助的部分我們的公寓計畫裡面也都會來提供補助不要說到最後過了可以上路了可是一直一台都沒看到因為太貴了買不起\n\n21\n00:08:11,507 --> 00:08:32,027\n這個部分我會盡量來協助不過到底要不要買車還是由業者來決定是但我們的補助辦法會在今年年底上路之前一起出來這個會同步因為它是公共運輸嘛那公共運輸的部分我們該有的補助都會有好但至少是跟現行的巴士一般巴士的補助的比例是一致的這個部分我會來討論來部長另外再請教\n\n22\n00:08:35,430 --> 00:08:49,356\n本席的選區以及橫跨整個新北市的太阪輕軌最近第四次可行性評估被推薦第四次它橫跨的是泰山新莊板橋土城中和\n\n23\n00:08:50,151 --> 00:09:12,648\n其實這幾個地方都是光聽名稱地名就是人口密集的地方那第四次可行性評估退回去年本席在請教跟質詢的時候就已經有要求說是不是承諾一個月內匯集相關的審查單位我們跟新北市政府也講清楚到底現在評審委員關心care的點是哪一些一次讓新北市政府補齊啊\n\n24\n00:09:13,649 --> 00:09:28,442\n可是這一次的推薦理由上一次推薦理由是說跟六四線太近影響六四的維修補強主要理由這一次又說要請新北市在舊土地開發效應納入附屬的事業收入一律\n\n25\n00:09:29,707 --> 00:09:44,214\n那這理由就又不一致啦上一次是說維修困難這一次是說這個效益太低或是說收入可能不符合支出你不能把周邊土地開發給納入但是其他的軌道建設有沒有這樣的一個評估其實也都有啊\n\n26\n00:09:45,074 --> 00:10:13,352\n所有的軌道運輸這些評估都放在同步啦那也跟委員報告一下有一個資訊就是說我們針對土地開發效益還有他的附屬事業的收入的這個疑慮在最早的時候就已經有提出不是這一次才提出最早的時候就已經有提出那這幾次的修訂的過程當中應該是新北市政府那邊針對這一項他的說明跟他的這個修正做得還不足所以這一次我們又再提出了一次\n\n27\n00:10:13,952 --> 00:10:34,910\n是那但是我本席在講的是說這一些都是通盤的部分是是那本來一個軌道的建設整個市的開發大眾的使用運輸的狀況我們都需要大家來做一個討論嘛對沒錯那所以說本席才上一次才會講是說是不是請匯集各單位到底你最care的點是哪一點\n\n28\n00:10:35,791 --> 00:10:44,947\n那現在本席先確認因為你也講部長你也講說從第一次就有土地效益的部分那一直到這第四次所以現在土地效益是最大的問題\n\n29\n00:10:46,235 --> 00:11:10,093\n收入就是運量的收入跟土地消費不能劃等號就不要混為一談那如果說能夠克服這一點是不是其他部分就沒有問題目前你不能第三次的時候跟我們講是說是因為64線太近影響64線的維修補強我想每一次的修正的這個提出的問題不會不會只有一個應該是好幾個啦是部長這就是\n\n30\n00:11:11,214 --> 00:11:33,450\n那我們現在要一直歸納嘛我們現在期待的是說當地方政府送給中央政府來審議的時候我們希望是一直歸納問題而不是第三次的時候說這個六四的維修的問題就第四次退回的時候又說土地的問題那每一次都東跳一個西跳一個那永遠沒有辦法那無怪乎地方會認為是說明明有那麼多行經\n\n31\n00:11:34,691 --> 00:11:49,920\n新莊、土城、板橋、泰山、中和這一些大家都期待的軌道建設結果卻因為一而再再而三被鐵道局這邊退回報告委員重點是在於該修正的單位要修正到完整\n\n32\n00:11:50,740 --> 00:12:09,650\n不會是鐵道局的問題鐵道局負責提問題所以我們才會再講是說部長所以我們才會再講是說請讓我們一次的討論讓大家能夠來聚焦到底你的考題現在著重的點在哪邊嗎這個考題從第一次就已經提出來了他們到現在考題還沒答對部長來部長\n\n33\n00:12:11,874 --> 00:12:26,973\n如果趕快答對本席今天本席今天站在這邊是希望反映大家的心聲因為看到真的這不只是本席的選區是這席包括韓瓜很多其實您之前在台中市政府當議員的時候也為台中的軌道來做努力是啊\n\n34\n00:12:27,693 --> 00:12:54,971\n當時也希望是中央不分朝野不分藍綠大家共同的一起面對軌道建設所以我們才會希望在去年的時候我是不是在這裡有去年的時候要求說希望能夠鐵道局找相關部會能夠一次的做討論來把問題釐清讓新北市府能夠來做一個完整的一個說明對這個都有啦現在新北市府會最快的速度也說九月會再送件那針對這部分鐵道局長還有沒有什麼話說\n\n35\n00:12:56,370 --> 00:13:19,423\n謝謝委員委員去年特別是有質詢也只是希望我親自來召開這個會議那當時我也開了那現在所講的這些問題其實在當時都跟新北市政府有做過溝通那我們極度的希望新北市政府的修正報告能夠把這個土地開發效益因為所有全國的計畫土地開發效益都是納為自償性經費而不是納為未來營運期間的一種收入\n\n36\n00:13:21,664 --> 00:13:41,273\n那因為這樣子的一個做法應該是新北市政府是首例那因為此例一開的話會影響到所有捷運計畫的一種所謂審議上面的公平性所以這一題我們是真的希望新北市政府能夠這個按照我們的這樣的一個期望去做修正那我們會盡速來協助這個案子往下一個程序來進行\n\n37\n00:13:42,613 --> 00:14:10,571\n兩方部分都要一起努力但最重要的是地方的需求要被重視所以這也是為什麼如果說中央部會有很明確的講清楚那新北市府也要很明確的回答兩方來聚焦才不會讓地方一直有期待是說奇怪怎麼會一而再再而三被退件那我們在中間扮演的就是一個溝通協調的角色就是希望讓兩方可以持續的把問題點給釐清清楚了才能夠往下走嘛是的\n\n38\n00:14:11,031 --> 00:14:27,604\n是這個部分是不是請鐵道局長也再讓我們知道是說上一次開會的一個內容是好不好那我們這邊該要求新北市府再繼續送件我們一定會要求跟督促我們再跟委員報告這都是地方民眾大家共同的期待我們再跟委員報告好謝謝謝謝委員\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n1226\t30064\t主席謝謝麻煩請陳部長我們陳部長還有我們鐵道局楊局長好鐵道局楊局長兩位董事長還沒有鄭董事長鄭董事長委員好好部長好來鄭董事長跟鐵道局局長好來請來鄭董事長我先請教一下本來以為說要幫你點播一首陶金營的太委屈啊那當然你今天早上又說不委屈啊那\n30967\t49629\t大家說好話啦 新官上任 做一做啦但是我想先請教 十年的高鐵人可不可以講一下說你覺得現在的新任的石董事長你覺得有哪裡是比你更優質的地方讓你覺得是說可以勝任高鐵的這個董事長工作\n51383\t72523\t我想這個對這部分我沒有評論沒有評論我想石董市長他那部長在找您就說要從高鐵轉換台鐵的時候你那時候有沒有問過說誰來接高鐵我並沒有這樣的也沒有問也不知道說誰來接高鐵反正部長找你是部長跟您談\n73649\t98033\t是的部長跟你談就是說你雖然今年一月才從十年的總經理扶正變成董事長但是現在要你去接台鐵燙手山芋確實是部長有跟我講這樣的事情然後你也沒有問說那到底誰來接高鐵我沒有問沒有問那現在揭曉了你也不覺得有任何的奇怪\n98752\t126455\t我想重點是這樣來過來也不會重點是說我被這個指派的這個任務呢我是不是有能力去做這個事情好董事長我非常肯定您過去的專業我也認為說您現在願意來台鐵這個是要把台鐵整頓好台鐵我們很期待所以你提到三個部分安全準點以及便捷這一點本期肯定但要怎麼做來先請教\n127536\t153846\t現在台鐵也是有多事之秋啦不管是現在漲價的部分或者是說戰務員對旅客咆哮還是說其實更多是很多的乘客有一些乘客真的會有攻擊戰務員的狀況這也過去時有所聞嘛 對不對那你要怎麼樣來做會讓台鐵人覺得你可以真真正正跟台鐵人站在一起並且保護台鐵人\n154687\t172445\t我想最重要的陳國剛才也報告這個一定要告訴我們所有的員工我們是做的是運輸服務業運輸服務業最重要的是要以客的需求為導向以客最重要的就是安全最重要的就是準點那就方便便捷\n173286\t202185\t那在這個部分的話呢我們一定要努力來做那但是呢這個所有事情要做成一定是要員工來做的我也認為要有一個滿意的顧客的話一定要先有一個快樂的員工所以在快樂的員工之下呢我要一定要很care我的員工呢他是不是能夠足夠的安心所以他的福利這些呢是我要努力的一個重點福利努力的部分我有看到你上禮拜有跟台鐵工會有先做過座談了是那\n202745\t227354\t是企業工會嘛對不對企業工會是那產業工會有沒有考慮要做談我想我們來看因為目前來看我們先從企業工會來所以產業工會還沒有安排目前還沒有好 那各地咧各地的員工因為看到你們秀出的資料也是幾位代表嘛那各地的員工有沒有現在要去做一個整個來去做了解\n227774\t255331\t有的 我們陸續的會 計畫是什麼陸續的會到各區去像我上禮拜的話呢第三 第三天的話上週第三我就到那個台東去那台東去那邊的話呢就是有來自於各地的我們這個壘球隊的代表那事實上也是代表著整個我們全國代表你現在是行動治理嘛來 那請教那個工會這邊有提出來說希望能夠提高待遇的部分你怎麼看\n256260\t272690\t我想他提出來的這部分的話有兩個我想我們馬上可以來處理的一個就是我們的這個夜間津貼的部分我覺得這個確實這個夜間津貼一個小時120塊其實太低了是那這部分還遠低於現在10星\n273470\t292197\t是因為整個這個十幾年前訂的嘛那第二個呢就是我們的這個主管的加擠這一部分我覺得主管加擠這一部分現在也是跟市場的這個行情差太多所以我這兩部分的話呢那員工的話這個尤其在基層的這個夜間今天能夠安他們的心\n292657\t300467\t另外在這個主管進貼的話最主要是我們尤其是中間幹部他們很需要這個進貼來鼓勵他們否則的話像我們現在一個問題就是說我們有90%的員工還是原來的所謂的有公務員資格的\n309178\t324878\t但是只有新人的話轉正只有10%那這個10%跟這個裡面的話你一定要有一個激勵的作用那麼才能夠抓住他們的心我認為說一定要把我們的我這個內部各個就是我們的員工能夠把他們的整個環境\n327822\t350401\t工資的是友善職場做好以後讓員工能夠得到說這個公司是很care我們的那他才能夠服務旅客是啊 董事長但是你講了半天你還是沒有講清楚這個夜間加急跟這個津貼120元要怎麼調整我們現在提出來多久能夠調整我們現在再提出來來跟工會這邊再討論這個我們會盡快的來定案標準是什麼\n356389\t385769\t標準就是我希望至少就是說我們的物價指數十年來這個物價指數應該是最合理的最低的門檻讓我們用這樣來做過去我知道我們要增加薪水的時候用人費用跟我們的營收的占比有一個上限在那邊這是我們的Handicap但是因為今年開始我們調整票價以後我們營收的話我們分母變大了所以我們這個上限就會有空間\n386169\t412395\t好 本席也正想問啦因為才剛調整完票價不會因為這個夜間的加急以及津貼再調整之後又要再調整票價不會啦 不會不會啦 這你保證啦 好台鐵的管理我們給時間但是要看到成績便捷安全跟準點最基本的要求這一點不過分啦所以拜託鄭董事長這邊一定要說到做到我全力以赴\n413235\t436198\t來抱歉部長時間比較有限但是還是兩個問題跟我們地方有相關我一定要跟您就教雙城巴士上國道這個部分是本席過去一起爭取很久從去年前年我想質詢的時候你也承諾那現在已經有曙光是說預計今年年底會上路有可能那但是雙城巴士的部分造價比較高一台可能將近兩千萬\n437219\t462852\t那有些業者開始在講是說那現在是不是比照現行巴士也有補貼的部分來做一些相關補貼我們有沒有相關辦法報告委員我們公共運輸計畫裡面會放進來是所以這個部分的補貼我們會盡量來協助業者因為我現在也有聽到業者在反映對這個政策即便是上路了他們的成本是個問題那另外就是說但是未來可以再我們想說是\n463332\t490046\t優勢是大於劣勢嘛第一載的量乘客人數多大家可以上車的多也減少車體的空間所以說對於國道的通暢度減能減碳碳排也會降低所以這個政策我們是支持而且我們在往前推進那委員在關心的這個對業者的補助的部分我們的公寓計畫裡面也都會來提供補助不要說到最後過了可以上路了可是一直一台都沒看到因為太貴了買不起\n491507\t512027\t這個部分我會盡量來協助不過到底要不要買車還是由業者來決定是 但我們的補助辦法會在今年年底上路之前一起出來這個會同步 因為它是公共運輸嘛那公共運輸的部分我們該有的補助都會有好 但至少是跟現行的巴士一般巴士的補助的比例是一致的這個部分我會來討論來 部長 另外再請教\n515430\t529356\t本席的選區以及橫跨整個新北市的太阪輕軌最近第四次可行性評估被推薦第四次它橫跨的是泰山新莊板橋土城中和\n530151\t552648\t其實這幾個地方都是光聽名稱地名就是人口密集的地方那第四次可行性評估退回去年本席在請教跟質詢的時候就已經有要求說是不是承諾一個月內匯集相關的審查單位我們跟新北市政府也講清楚到底現在評審委員關心care的點是哪一些一次讓新北市政府補齊啊\n553649\t568442\t可是這一次的推薦理由上一次推薦理由是說跟六四線太近影響六四的維修補強主要理由這一次又說要請新北市在舊土地開發效應納入附屬的事業收入一律\n569707\t584214\t那這理由就又不一致啦上一次是說維修困難這一次是說這個效益太低或是說收入可能不符合支出你不能把周邊土地開發給納入但是其他的軌道建設有沒有這樣的一個評估其實也都有啊\n585074\t613352\t所有的軌道運輸這些評估都放在同步啦那也跟委員報告一下有一個資訊就是說我們針對土地開發效益還有他的附屬事業的收入的這個疑慮在最早的時候就已經有提出不是這一次才提出最早的時候就已經有提出那這幾次的修訂的過程當中應該是新北市政府那邊針對這一項他的說明跟他的這個修正做得還不足所以這一次我們又再提出了一次\n613952\t634910\t是那但是我本席在講的是說這一些都是通盤的部分是是那本來一個軌道的建設整個市的開發大眾的使用運輸的狀況我們都需要大家來做一個討論嘛對沒錯那所以說本席才上一次才會講是說是不是請匯集各單位到底你最care的點是哪一點\n635791\t644947\t那現在本席先確認因為你也講部長你也講說從第一次就有土地效益的部分那一直到這第四次所以現在土地效益是最大的問題\n646235\t670093\t收入就是運量的收入跟土地消費不能劃等號就不要混為一談那如果說能夠克服這一點是不是其他部分就沒有問題目前你不能第三次的時候跟我們講是說是因為64線太近影響64線的維修補強我想每一次的修正的這個提出的問題不會不會只有一個應該是好幾個啦是部長這就是\n671214\t693450\t那我們現在要一直歸納嘛我們現在期待的是說當地方政府送給中央政府來審議的時候我們希望是一直歸納問題而不是第三次的時候說這個六四的維修的問題就第四次退回的時候又說土地的問題那每一次都東跳一個西跳一個那永遠沒有辦法那無怪乎地方會認為是說明明有那麼多行經\n694691\t709920\t新莊、土城、板橋、泰山、中和這一些大家都期待的軌道建設結果卻因為一而再再而三被鐵道局這邊退回報告委員重點是在於該修正的單位要修正到完整\n710740\t729650\t不會是鐵道局的問題鐵道局負責提問題所以我們才會再講是說 部長所以我們才會再講是說請讓我們一次的討論讓大家能夠來聚焦到底你的考題現在著重的點在哪邊嗎這個考題從第一次就已經提出來了他們到現在考題還沒答對部長 來 部長\n731874\t746973\t如果趕快答對本席今天本席今天站在這邊是希望反映大家的心聲因為看到真的這不只是本席的選區是這席包括韓瓜很多其實您之前在台中市政府當議員的時候也為台中的軌道來做努力是啊\n747693\t774971\t當時也希望是中央不分朝野不分藍綠大家共同的一起面對軌道建設所以我們才會希望在去年的時候我是不是在這裡有去年的時候要求說希望能夠鐵道局找相關部會能夠一次的做討論來把問題釐清讓新北市府能夠來做一個完整的一個說明對 這個都有啦現在新北市府會最快的速度也說九月會再送件那針對這部分鐵道局長還有沒有什麼話說\n776370\t799423\t謝謝委員 委員去年特別是有質詢也只是希望我親自來召開這個會議那當時我也開了那現在所講的這些問題其實在當時都跟新北市政府有做過溝通那我們極度的希望新北市政府的修正報告能夠把這個土地開發效益因為所有全國的計畫土地開發效益都是納為自償性經費而不是納為未來營運期間的一種收入\n801664\t821273\t那因為這樣子的一個做法應該是新北市政府是首例那因為此例一開的話會影響到所有捷運計畫的一種所謂審議上面的公平性所以這一題我們是真的希望新北市政府能夠這個按照我們的這樣的一個期望去做修正那我們會盡速來協助這個案子往下一個程序來進行\n822613\t850571\t兩方部分都要一起努力但最重要的是地方的需求要被重視所以這也是為什麼如果說中央部會有很明確的講清楚那新北市府也要很明確的回答兩方來聚焦才不會讓地方一直有期待是說奇怪怎麼會一而再再而三被退件那我們在中間扮演的就是一個溝通協調的角色就是希望讓兩方可以持續的把問題點給釐清清楚了才能夠往下走嘛是的\n851031\t867604\t是這個部分是不是請鐵道局長也再讓我們知道是說上一次開會的一個內容是好不好那我們這邊該要求新北市府再繼續送件我們一定會要求跟督促我們再跟委員報告這都是地方民眾大家共同的期待我們再跟委員報告好 謝謝謝謝委員\n","txt":"主席謝謝麻煩請陳部長我們陳部長還有我們鐵道局楊局長好鐵道局楊局長兩位董事長還沒有鄭董事長鄭董事長委員好好部長好來鄭董事長跟鐵道局局長好來請來鄭董事長我先請教一下本來以為說要幫你點播一首陶金營的太委屈啊那當然你今天早上又說不委屈啊那\n大家說好話啦 新官上任 做一做啦但是我想先請教 十年的高鐵人可不可以講一下說你覺得現在的新任的石董事長你覺得有哪裡是比你更優質的地方讓你覺得是說可以勝任高鐵的這個董事長工作\n我想這個對這部分我沒有評論沒有評論我想石董市長他那部長在找您就說要從高鐵轉換台鐵的時候你那時候有沒有問過說誰來接高鐵我並沒有這樣的也沒有問也不知道說誰來接高鐵反正部長找你是部長跟您談\n是的部長跟你談就是說你雖然今年一月才從十年的總經理扶正變成董事長但是現在要你去接台鐵燙手山芋確實是部長有跟我講這樣的事情然後你也沒有問說那到底誰來接高鐵我沒有問沒有問那現在揭曉了你也不覺得有任何的奇怪\n我想重點是這樣來過來也不會重點是說我被這個指派的這個任務呢我是不是有能力去做這個事情好董事長我非常肯定您過去的專業我也認為說您現在願意來台鐵這個是要把台鐵整頓好台鐵我們很期待所以你提到三個部分安全準點以及便捷這一點本期肯定但要怎麼做來先請教\n現在台鐵也是有多事之秋啦不管是現在漲價的部分或者是說戰務員對旅客咆哮還是說其實更多是很多的乘客有一些乘客真的會有攻擊戰務員的狀況這也過去時有所聞嘛 對不對那你要怎麼樣來做會讓台鐵人覺得你可以真真正正跟台鐵人站在一起並且保護台鐵人\n我想最重要的陳國剛才也報告這個一定要告訴我們所有的員工我們是做的是運輸服務業運輸服務業最重要的是要以客的需求為導向以客最重要的就是安全最重要的就是準點那就方便便捷\n那在這個部分的話呢我們一定要努力來做那但是呢這個所有事情要做成一定是要員工來做的我也認為要有一個滿意的顧客的話一定要先有一個快樂的員工所以在快樂的員工之下呢我要一定要很care我的員工呢他是不是能夠足夠的安心所以他的福利這些呢是我要努力的一個重點福利努力的部分我有看到你上禮拜有跟台鐵工會有先做過座談了是那\n是企業工會嘛對不對企業工會是那產業工會有沒有考慮要做談我想我們來看因為目前來看我們先從企業工會來所以產業工會還沒有安排目前還沒有好 那各地咧各地的員工因為看到你們秀出的資料也是幾位代表嘛那各地的員工有沒有現在要去做一個整個來去做了解\n有的 我們陸續的會 計畫是什麼陸續的會到各區去像我上禮拜的話呢第三 第三天的話上週第三我就到那個台東去那台東去那邊的話呢就是有來自於各地的我們這個壘球隊的代表那事實上也是代表著整個我們全國代表你現在是行動治理嘛來 那請教那個工會這邊有提出來說希望能夠提高待遇的部分你怎麼看\n我想他提出來的這部分的話有兩個我想我們馬上可以來處理的一個就是我們的這個夜間津貼的部分我覺得這個確實這個夜間津貼一個小時120塊其實太低了是那這部分還遠低於現在10星\n是因為整個這個十幾年前訂的嘛那第二個呢就是我們的這個主管的加擠這一部分我覺得主管加擠這一部分現在也是跟市場的這個行情差太多所以我這兩部分的話呢那員工的話這個尤其在基層的這個夜間今天能夠安他們的心\n另外在這個主管進貼的話最主要是我們尤其是中間幹部他們很需要這個進貼來鼓勵他們否則的話像我們現在一個問題就是說我們有90%的員工還是原來的所謂的有公務員資格的\n但是只有新人的話轉正只有10%那這個10%跟這個裡面的話你一定要有一個激勵的作用那麼才能夠抓住他們的心我認為說一定要把我們的我這個內部各個就是我們的員工能夠把他們的整個環境\n工資的是友善職場做好以後讓員工能夠得到說這個公司是很care我們的那他才能夠服務旅客是啊 董事長但是你講了半天你還是沒有講清楚這個夜間加急跟這個津貼120元要怎麼調整我們現在提出來多久能夠調整我們現在再提出來來跟工會這邊再討論這個我們會盡快的來定案標準是什麼\n標準就是我希望至少就是說我們的物價指數十年來這個物價指數應該是最合理的最低的門檻讓我們用這樣來做過去我知道我們要增加薪水的時候用人費用跟我們的營收的占比有一個上限在那邊這是我們的Handicap但是因為今年開始我們調整票價以後我們營收的話我們分母變大了所以我們這個上限就會有空間\n好 本席也正想問啦因為才剛調整完票價不會因為這個夜間的加急以及津貼再調整之後又要再調整票價不會啦 不會不會啦 這你保證啦 好台鐵的管理我們給時間但是要看到成績便捷安全跟準點最基本的要求這一點不過分啦所以拜託鄭董事長這邊一定要說到做到我全力以赴\n來抱歉部長時間比較有限但是還是兩個問題跟我們地方有相關我一定要跟您就教雙城巴士上國道這個部分是本席過去一起爭取很久從去年前年我想質詢的時候你也承諾那現在已經有曙光是說預計今年年底會上路有可能那但是雙城巴士的部分造價比較高一台可能將近兩千萬\n那有些業者開始在講是說那現在是不是比照現行巴士也有補貼的部分來做一些相關補貼我們有沒有相關辦法報告委員我們公共運輸計畫裡面會放進來是所以這個部分的補貼我們會盡量來協助業者因為我現在也有聽到業者在反映對這個政策即便是上路了他們的成本是個問題那另外就是說但是未來可以再我們想說是\n優勢是大於劣勢嘛第一載的量乘客人數多大家可以上車的多也減少車體的空間所以說對於國道的通暢度減能減碳碳排也會降低所以這個政策我們是支持而且我們在往前推進那委員在關心的這個對業者的補助的部分我們的公寓計畫裡面也都會來提供補助不要說到最後過了可以上路了可是一直一台都沒看到因為太貴了買不起\n這個部分我會盡量來協助不過到底要不要買車還是由業者來決定是 但我們的補助辦法會在今年年底上路之前一起出來這個會同步 因為它是公共運輸嘛那公共運輸的部分我們該有的補助都會有好 但至少是跟現行的巴士一般巴士的補助的比例是一致的這個部分我會來討論來 部長 另外再請教\n本席的選區以及橫跨整個新北市的太阪輕軌最近第四次可行性評估被推薦第四次它橫跨的是泰山新莊板橋土城中和\n其實這幾個地方都是光聽名稱地名就是人口密集的地方那第四次可行性評估退回去年本席在請教跟質詢的時候就已經有要求說是不是承諾一個月內匯集相關的審查單位我們跟新北市政府也講清楚到底現在評審委員關心care的點是哪一些一次讓新北市政府補齊啊\n可是這一次的推薦理由上一次推薦理由是說跟六四線太近影響六四的維修補強主要理由這一次又說要請新北市在舊土地開發效應納入附屬的事業收入一律\n那這理由就又不一致啦上一次是說維修困難這一次是說這個效益太低或是說收入可能不符合支出你不能把周邊土地開發給納入但是其他的軌道建設有沒有這樣的一個評估其實也都有啊\n所有的軌道運輸這些評估都放在同步啦那也跟委員報告一下有一個資訊就是說我們針對土地開發效益還有他的附屬事業的收入的這個疑慮在最早的時候就已經有提出不是這一次才提出最早的時候就已經有提出那這幾次的修訂的過程當中應該是新北市政府那邊針對這一項他的說明跟他的這個修正做得還不足所以這一次我們又再提出了一次\n是那但是我本席在講的是說這一些都是通盤的部分是是那本來一個軌道的建設整個市的開發大眾的使用運輸的狀況我們都需要大家來做一個討論嘛對沒錯那所以說本席才上一次才會講是說是不是請匯集各單位到底你最care的點是哪一點\n那現在本席先確認因為你也講部長你也講說從第一次就有土地效益的部分那一直到這第四次所以現在土地效益是最大的問題\n收入就是運量的收入跟土地消費不能劃等號就不要混為一談那如果說能夠克服這一點是不是其他部分就沒有問題目前你不能第三次的時候跟我們講是說是因為64線太近影響64線的維修補強我想每一次的修正的這個提出的問題不會不會只有一個應該是好幾個啦是部長這就是\n那我們現在要一直歸納嘛我們現在期待的是說當地方政府送給中央政府來審議的時候我們希望是一直歸納問題而不是第三次的時候說這個六四的維修的問題就第四次退回的時候又說土地的問題那每一次都東跳一個西跳一個那永遠沒有辦法那無怪乎地方會認為是說明明有那麼多行經\n新莊、土城、板橋、泰山、中和這一些大家都期待的軌道建設結果卻因為一而再再而三被鐵道局這邊退回報告委員重點是在於該修正的單位要修正到完整\n不會是鐵道局的問題鐵道局負責提問題所以我們才會再講是說 部長所以我們才會再講是說請讓我們一次的討論讓大家能夠來聚焦到底你的考題現在著重的點在哪邊嗎這個考題從第一次就已經提出來了他們到現在考題還沒答對部長 來 部長\n如果趕快答對本席今天本席今天站在這邊是希望反映大家的心聲因為看到真的這不只是本席的選區是這席包括韓瓜很多其實您之前在台中市政府當議員的時候也為台中的軌道來做努力是啊\n當時也希望是中央不分朝野不分藍綠大家共同的一起面對軌道建設所以我們才會希望在去年的時候我是不是在這裡有去年的時候要求說希望能夠鐵道局找相關部會能夠一次的做討論來把問題釐清讓新北市府能夠來做一個完整的一個說明對 這個都有啦現在新北市府會最快的速度也說九月會再送件那針對這部分鐵道局長還有沒有什麼話說\n謝謝委員 委員去年特別是有質詢也只是希望我親自來召開這個會議那當時我也開了那現在所講的這些問題其實在當時都跟新北市政府有做過溝通那我們極度的希望新北市政府的修正報告能夠把這個土地開發效益因為所有全國的計畫土地開發效益都是納為自償性經費而不是納為未來營運期間的一種收入\n那因為這樣子的一個做法應該是新北市政府是首例那因為此例一開的話會影響到所有捷運計畫的一種所謂審議上面的公平性所以這一題我們是真的希望新北市政府能夠這個按照我們的這樣的一個期望去做修正那我們會盡速來協助這個案子往下一個程序來進行\n兩方部分都要一起努力但最重要的是地方的需求要被重視所以這也是為什麼如果說中央部會有很明確的講清楚那新北市府也要很明確的回答兩方來聚焦才不會讓地方一直有期待是說奇怪怎麼會一而再再而三被退件那我們在中間扮演的就是一個溝通協調的角色就是希望讓兩方可以持續的把問題點給釐清清楚了才能夠往下走嘛是的\n是這個部分是不是請鐵道局長也再讓我們知道是說上一次開會的一個內容是好不好那我們這邊該要求新北市府再繼續送件我們一定會要求跟督促我們再跟委員報告這都是地方民眾大家共同的期待我們再跟委員報告好 謝謝謝謝委員\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:01.226 --> 00:30.064\n主席謝謝麻煩請陳部長我們陳部長還有我們鐵道局楊局長好鐵道局楊局長兩位董事長還沒有鄭董事長鄭董事長委員好好部長好來鄭董事長跟鐵道局局長好來請來鄭董事長我先請教一下本來以為說要幫你點播一首陶金營的太委屈啊那當然你今天早上又說不委屈啊那\n\n00:30.967 --> 00:49.629\n大家說好話啦新官上任做一做啦但是我想先請教十年的高鐵人可不可以講一下說你覺得現在的新任的石董事長你覺得有哪裡是比你更優質的地方讓你覺得是說可以勝任高鐵的這個董事長工作\n\n00:51.383 --> 01:12.523\n我想這個對這部分我沒有評論沒有評論我想石董市長他那部長在找您就說要從高鐵轉換台鐵的時候你那時候有沒有問過說誰來接高鐵我並沒有這樣的也沒有問也不知道說誰來接高鐵反正部長找你是部長跟您談\n\n01:13.649 --> 01:38.033\n是的部長跟你談就是說你雖然今年一月才從十年的總經理扶正變成董事長但是現在要你去接台鐵燙手山芋確實是部長有跟我講這樣的事情然後你也沒有問說那到底誰來接高鐵我沒有問沒有問那現在揭曉了你也不覺得有任何的奇怪\n\n01:38.752 --> 02:06.455\n我想重點是這樣來過來也不會重點是說我被這個指派的這個任務呢我是不是有能力去做這個事情好董事長我非常肯定您過去的專業我也認為說您現在願意來台鐵這個是要把台鐵整頓好台鐵我們很期待所以你提到三個部分安全準點以及便捷這一點本期肯定但要怎麼做來先請教\n\n02:07.536 --> 02:33.846\n現在台鐵也是有多事之秋啦不管是現在漲價的部分或者是說戰務員對旅客咆哮還是說其實更多是很多的乘客有一些乘客真的會有攻擊戰務員的狀況這也過去時有所聞嘛對不對那你要怎麼樣來做會讓台鐵人覺得你可以真真正正跟台鐵人站在一起並且保護台鐵人\n\n02:34.687 --> 02:52.445\n我想最重要的陳國剛才也報告這個一定要告訴我們所有的員工我們是做的是運輸服務業運輸服務業最重要的是要以客的需求為導向以客最重要的就是安全最重要的就是準點那就方便便捷\n\n02:53.286 --> 03:22.185\n那在這個部分的話呢我們一定要努力來做那但是呢這個所有事情要做成一定是要員工來做的我也認為要有一個滿意的顧客的話一定要先有一個快樂的員工所以在快樂的員工之下呢我要一定要很care我的員工呢他是不是能夠足夠的安心所以他的福利這些呢是我要努力的一個重點福利努力的部分我有看到你上禮拜有跟台鐵工會有先做過座談了是那\n\n03:22.745 --> 03:47.354\n是企業工會嘛對不對企業工會是那產業工會有沒有考慮要做談我想我們來看因為目前來看我們先從企業工會來所以產業工會還沒有安排目前還沒有好那各地咧各地的員工因為看到你們秀出的資料也是幾位代表嘛那各地的員工有沒有現在要去做一個整個來去做了解\n\n03:47.774 --> 04:15.331\n有的我們陸續的會計畫是什麼陸續的會到各區去像我上禮拜的話呢第三第三天的話上週第三我就到那個台東去那台東去那邊的話呢就是有來自於各地的我們這個壘球隊的代表那事實上也是代表著整個我們全國代表你現在是行動治理嘛來那請教那個工會這邊有提出來說希望能夠提高待遇的部分你怎麼看\n\n04:16.260 --> 04:32.690\n我想他提出來的這部分的話有兩個我想我們馬上可以來處理的一個就是我們的這個夜間津貼的部分我覺得這個確實這個夜間津貼一個小時120塊其實太低了是那這部分還遠低於現在10星\n\n04:33.470 --> 04:52.197\n是因為整個這個十幾年前訂的嘛那第二個呢就是我們的這個主管的加擠這一部分我覺得主管加擠這一部分現在也是跟市場的這個行情差太多所以我這兩部分的話呢那員工的話這個尤其在基層的這個夜間今天能夠安他們的心\n\n04:52.657 --> 05:00.467\n另外在這個主管進貼的話最主要是我們尤其是中間幹部他們很需要這個進貼來鼓勵他們否則的話像我們現在一個問題就是說我們有90%的員工還是原來的所謂的有公務員資格的\n\n05:09.178 --> 05:24.878\n但是只有新人的話轉正只有10%那這個10%跟這個裡面的話你一定要有一個激勵的作用那麼才能夠抓住他們的心我認為說一定要把我們的我這個內部各個就是我們的員工能夠把他們的整個環境\n\n05:27.822 --> 05:50.401\n工資的是友善職場做好以後讓員工能夠得到說這個公司是很care我們的那他才能夠服務旅客是啊董事長但是你講了半天你還是沒有講清楚這個夜間加急跟這個津貼120元要怎麼調整我們現在提出來多久能夠調整我們現在再提出來來跟工會這邊再討論這個我們會盡快的來定案標準是什麼\n\n05:56.389 --> 06:25.769\n標準就是我希望至少就是說我們的物價指數十年來這個物價指數應該是最合理的最低的門檻讓我們用這樣來做過去我知道我們要增加薪水的時候用人費用跟我們的營收的占比有一個上限在那邊這是我們的Handicap但是因為今年開始我們調整票價以後我們營收的話我們分母變大了所以我們這個上限就會有空間\n\n06:26.169 --> 06:52.395\n好本席也正想問啦因為才剛調整完票價不會因為這個夜間的加急以及津貼再調整之後又要再調整票價不會啦不會不會啦這你保證啦好台鐵的管理我們給時間但是要看到成績便捷安全跟準點最基本的要求這一點不過分啦所以拜託鄭董事長這邊一定要說到做到我全力以赴\n\n06:53.235 --> 07:16.198\n來抱歉部長時間比較有限但是還是兩個問題跟我們地方有相關我一定要跟您就教雙城巴士上國道這個部分是本席過去一起爭取很久從去年前年我想質詢的時候你也承諾那現在已經有曙光是說預計今年年底會上路有可能那但是雙城巴士的部分造價比較高一台可能將近兩千萬\n\n07:17.219 --> 07:42.852\n那有些業者開始在講是說那現在是不是比照現行巴士也有補貼的部分來做一些相關補貼我們有沒有相關辦法報告委員我們公共運輸計畫裡面會放進來是所以這個部分的補貼我們會盡量來協助業者因為我現在也有聽到業者在反映對這個政策即便是上路了他們的成本是個問題那另外就是說但是未來可以再我們想說是\n\n07:43.332 --> 08:10.046\n優勢是大於劣勢嘛第一載的量乘客人數多大家可以上車的多也減少車體的空間所以說對於國道的通暢度減能減碳碳排也會降低所以這個政策我們是支持而且我們在往前推進那委員在關心的這個對業者的補助的部分我們的公寓計畫裡面也都會來提供補助不要說到最後過了可以上路了可是一直一台都沒看到因為太貴了買不起\n\n08:11.507 --> 08:32.027\n這個部分我會盡量來協助不過到底要不要買車還是由業者來決定是但我們的補助辦法會在今年年底上路之前一起出來這個會同步因為它是公共運輸嘛那公共運輸的部分我們該有的補助都會有好但至少是跟現行的巴士一般巴士的補助的比例是一致的這個部分我會來討論來部長另外再請教\n\n08:35.430 --> 08:49.356\n本席的選區以及橫跨整個新北市的太阪輕軌最近第四次可行性評估被推薦第四次它橫跨的是泰山新莊板橋土城中和\n\n08:50.151 --> 09:12.648\n其實這幾個地方都是光聽名稱地名就是人口密集的地方那第四次可行性評估退回去年本席在請教跟質詢的時候就已經有要求說是不是承諾一個月內匯集相關的審查單位我們跟新北市政府也講清楚到底現在評審委員關心care的點是哪一些一次讓新北市政府補齊啊\n\n09:13.649 --> 09:28.442\n可是這一次的推薦理由上一次推薦理由是說跟六四線太近影響六四的維修補強主要理由這一次又說要請新北市在舊土地開發效應納入附屬的事業收入一律\n\n09:29.707 --> 09:44.214\n那這理由就又不一致啦上一次是說維修困難這一次是說這個效益太低或是說收入可能不符合支出你不能把周邊土地開發給納入但是其他的軌道建設有沒有這樣的一個評估其實也都有啊\n\n09:45.074 --> 10:13.352\n所有的軌道運輸這些評估都放在同步啦那也跟委員報告一下有一個資訊就是說我們針對土地開發效益還有他的附屬事業的收入的這個疑慮在最早的時候就已經有提出不是這一次才提出最早的時候就已經有提出那這幾次的修訂的過程當中應該是新北市政府那邊針對這一項他的說明跟他的這個修正做得還不足所以這一次我們又再提出了一次\n\n10:13.952 --> 10:34.910\n是那但是我本席在講的是說這一些都是通盤的部分是是那本來一個軌道的建設整個市的開發大眾的使用運輸的狀況我們都需要大家來做一個討論嘛對沒錯那所以說本席才上一次才會講是說是不是請匯集各單位到底你最care的點是哪一點\n\n10:35.791 --> 10:44.947\n那現在本席先確認因為你也講部長你也講說從第一次就有土地效益的部分那一直到這第四次所以現在土地效益是最大的問題\n\n10:46.235 --> 11:10.093\n收入就是運量的收入跟土地消費不能劃等號就不要混為一談那如果說能夠克服這一點是不是其他部分就沒有問題目前你不能第三次的時候跟我們講是說是因為64線太近影響64線的維修補強我想每一次的修正的這個提出的問題不會不會只有一個應該是好幾個啦是部長這就是\n\n11:11.214 --> 11:33.450\n那我們現在要一直歸納嘛我們現在期待的是說當地方政府送給中央政府來審議的時候我們希望是一直歸納問題而不是第三次的時候說這個六四的維修的問題就第四次退回的時候又說土地的問題那每一次都東跳一個西跳一個那永遠沒有辦法那無怪乎地方會認為是說明明有那麼多行經\n\n11:34.691 --> 11:49.920\n新莊、土城、板橋、泰山、中和這一些大家都期待的軌道建設結果卻因為一而再再而三被鐵道局這邊退回報告委員重點是在於該修正的單位要修正到完整\n\n11:50.740 --> 12:09.650\n不會是鐵道局的問題鐵道局負責提問題所以我們才會再講是說部長所以我們才會再講是說請讓我們一次的討論讓大家能夠來聚焦到底你的考題現在著重的點在哪邊嗎這個考題從第一次就已經提出來了他們到現在考題還沒答對部長來部長\n\n12:11.874 --> 12:26.973\n如果趕快答對本席今天本席今天站在這邊是希望反映大家的心聲因為看到真的這不只是本席的選區是這席包括韓瓜很多其實您之前在台中市政府當議員的時候也為台中的軌道來做努力是啊\n\n12:27.693 --> 12:54.971\n當時也希望是中央不分朝野不分藍綠大家共同的一起面對軌道建設所以我們才會希望在去年的時候我是不是在這裡有去年的時候要求說希望能夠鐵道局找相關部會能夠一次的做討論來把問題釐清讓新北市府能夠來做一個完整的一個說明對這個都有啦現在新北市府會最快的速度也說九月會再送件那針對這部分鐵道局長還有沒有什麼話說\n\n12:56.370 --> 13:19.423\n謝謝委員委員去年特別是有質詢也只是希望我親自來召開這個會議那當時我也開了那現在所講的這些問題其實在當時都跟新北市政府有做過溝通那我們極度的希望新北市政府的修正報告能夠把這個土地開發效益因為所有全國的計畫土地開發效益都是納為自償性經費而不是納為未來營運期間的一種收入\n\n13:21.664 --> 13:41.273\n那因為這樣子的一個做法應該是新北市政府是首例那因為此例一開的話會影響到所有捷運計畫的一種所謂審議上面的公平性所以這一題我們是真的希望新北市政府能夠這個按照我們的這樣的一個期望去做修正那我們會盡速來協助這個案子往下一個程序來進行\n\n13:42.613 --> 14:10.571\n兩方部分都要一起努力但最重要的是地方的需求要被重視所以這也是為什麼如果說中央部會有很明確的講清楚那新北市府也要很明確的回答兩方來聚焦才不會讓地方一直有期待是說奇怪怎麼會一而再再而三被退件那我們在中間扮演的就是一個溝通協調的角色就是希望讓兩方可以持續的把問題點給釐清清楚了才能夠往下走嘛是的\n\n14:11.031 --> 14:27.604\n是這個部分是不是請鐵道局長也再讓我們知道是說上一次開會的一個內容是好不好那我們這邊該要求新北市府再繼續送件我們一定會要求跟督促我們再跟委員報告這都是地方民眾大家共同的期待我們再跟委員報告好謝謝謝謝委員\n\n","segments":[{"start":1.226,"end":30.064,"text":"主席謝謝麻煩請陳部長我們陳部長還有我們鐵道局楊局長好鐵道局楊局長兩位董事長還沒有鄭董事長鄭董事長委員好好部長好來鄭董事長跟鐵道局局長好來請來鄭董事長我先請教一下本來以為說要幫你點播一首陶金營的太委屈啊那當然你今天早上又說不委屈啊那"},{"start":30.967,"end":49.629,"text":"大家說好話啦 新官上任 做一做啦但是我想先請教 十年的高鐵人可不可以講一下說你覺得現在的新任的石董事長你覺得有哪裡是比你更優質的地方讓你覺得是說可以勝任高鐵的這個董事長工作"},{"start":51.383,"end":72.523,"text":"我想這個對這部分我沒有評論沒有評論我想石董市長他那部長在找您就說要從高鐵轉換台鐵的時候你那時候有沒有問過說誰來接高鐵我並沒有這樣的也沒有問也不知道說誰來接高鐵反正部長找你是部長跟您談"},{"start":73.649,"end":98.033,"text":"是的部長跟你談就是說你雖然今年一月才從十年的總經理扶正變成董事長但是現在要你去接台鐵燙手山芋確實是部長有跟我講這樣的事情然後你也沒有問說那到底誰來接高鐵我沒有問沒有問那現在揭曉了你也不覺得有任何的奇怪"},{"start":98.752,"end":126.455,"text":"我想重點是這樣來過來也不會重點是說我被這個指派的這個任務呢我是不是有能力去做這個事情好董事長我非常肯定您過去的專業我也認為說您現在願意來台鐵這個是要把台鐵整頓好台鐵我們很期待所以你提到三個部分安全準點以及便捷這一點本期肯定但要怎麼做來先請教"},{"start":127.536,"end":153.846,"text":"現在台鐵也是有多事之秋啦不管是現在漲價的部分或者是說戰務員對旅客咆哮還是說其實更多是很多的乘客有一些乘客真的會有攻擊戰務員的狀況這也過去時有所聞嘛 對不對那你要怎麼樣來做會讓台鐵人覺得你可以真真正正跟台鐵人站在一起並且保護台鐵人"},{"start":154.687,"end":172.445,"text":"我想最重要的陳國剛才也報告這個一定要告訴我們所有的員工我們是做的是運輸服務業運輸服務業最重要的是要以客的需求為導向以客最重要的就是安全最重要的就是準點那就方便便捷"},{"start":173.286,"end":202.185,"text":"那在這個部分的話呢我們一定要努力來做那但是呢這個所有事情要做成一定是要員工來做的我也認為要有一個滿意的顧客的話一定要先有一個快樂的員工所以在快樂的員工之下呢我要一定要很care我的員工呢他是不是能夠足夠的安心所以他的福利這些呢是我要努力的一個重點福利努力的部分我有看到你上禮拜有跟台鐵工會有先做過座談了是那"},{"start":202.745,"end":227.354,"text":"是企業工會嘛對不對企業工會是那產業工會有沒有考慮要做談我想我們來看因為目前來看我們先從企業工會來所以產業工會還沒有安排目前還沒有好 那各地咧各地的員工因為看到你們秀出的資料也是幾位代表嘛那各地的員工有沒有現在要去做一個整個來去做了解"},{"start":227.774,"end":255.331,"text":"有的 我們陸續的會 計畫是什麼陸續的會到各區去像我上禮拜的話呢第三 第三天的話上週第三我就到那個台東去那台東去那邊的話呢就是有來自於各地的我們這個壘球隊的代表那事實上也是代表著整個我們全國代表你現在是行動治理嘛來 那請教那個工會這邊有提出來說希望能夠提高待遇的部分你怎麼看"},{"start":256.26,"end":272.69,"text":"我想他提出來的這部分的話有兩個我想我們馬上可以來處理的一個就是我們的這個夜間津貼的部分我覺得這個確實這個夜間津貼一個小時120塊其實太低了是那這部分還遠低於現在10星"},{"start":273.47,"end":292.197,"text":"是因為整個這個十幾年前訂的嘛那第二個呢就是我們的這個主管的加擠這一部分我覺得主管加擠這一部分現在也是跟市場的這個行情差太多所以我這兩部分的話呢那員工的話這個尤其在基層的這個夜間今天能夠安他們的心"},{"start":292.657,"end":300.467,"text":"另外在這個主管進貼的話最主要是我們尤其是中間幹部他們很需要這個進貼來鼓勵他們否則的話像我們現在一個問題就是說我們有90%的員工還是原來的所謂的有公務員資格的"},{"start":309.178,"end":324.878,"text":"但是只有新人的話轉正只有10%那這個10%跟這個裡面的話你一定要有一個激勵的作用那麼才能夠抓住他們的心我認為說一定要把我們的我這個內部各個就是我們的員工能夠把他們的整個環境"},{"start":327.822,"end":350.401,"text":"工資的是友善職場做好以後讓員工能夠得到說這個公司是很care我們的那他才能夠服務旅客是啊 董事長但是你講了半天你還是沒有講清楚這個夜間加急跟這個津貼120元要怎麼調整我們現在提出來多久能夠調整我們現在再提出來來跟工會這邊再討論這個我們會盡快的來定案標準是什麼"},{"start":356.389,"end":385.769,"text":"標準就是我希望至少就是說我們的物價指數十年來這個物價指數應該是最合理的最低的門檻讓我們用這樣來做過去我知道我們要增加薪水的時候用人費用跟我們的營收的占比有一個上限在那邊這是我們的Handicap但是因為今年開始我們調整票價以後我們營收的話我們分母變大了所以我們這個上限就會有空間"},{"start":386.169,"end":412.395,"text":"好 本席也正想問啦因為才剛調整完票價不會因為這個夜間的加急以及津貼再調整之後又要再調整票價不會啦 不會不會啦 這你保證啦 好台鐵的管理我們給時間但是要看到成績便捷安全跟準點最基本的要求這一點不過分啦所以拜託鄭董事長這邊一定要說到做到我全力以赴"},{"start":413.235,"end":436.198,"text":"來抱歉部長時間比較有限但是還是兩個問題跟我們地方有相關我一定要跟您就教雙城巴士上國道這個部分是本席過去一起爭取很久從去年前年我想質詢的時候你也承諾那現在已經有曙光是說預計今年年底會上路有可能那但是雙城巴士的部分造價比較高一台可能將近兩千萬"},{"start":437.219,"end":462.852,"text":"那有些業者開始在講是說那現在是不是比照現行巴士也有補貼的部分來做一些相關補貼我們有沒有相關辦法報告委員我們公共運輸計畫裡面會放進來是所以這個部分的補貼我們會盡量來協助業者因為我現在也有聽到業者在反映對這個政策即便是上路了他們的成本是個問題那另外就是說但是未來可以再我們想說是"},{"start":463.332,"end":490.046,"text":"優勢是大於劣勢嘛第一載的量乘客人數多大家可以上車的多也減少車體的空間所以說對於國道的通暢度減能減碳碳排也會降低所以這個政策我們是支持而且我們在往前推進那委員在關心的這個對業者的補助的部分我們的公寓計畫裡面也都會來提供補助不要說到最後過了可以上路了可是一直一台都沒看到因為太貴了買不起"},{"start":491.507,"end":512.027,"text":"這個部分我會盡量來協助不過到底要不要買車還是由業者來決定是 但我們的補助辦法會在今年年底上路之前一起出來這個會同步 因為它是公共運輸嘛那公共運輸的部分我們該有的補助都會有好 但至少是跟現行的巴士一般巴士的補助的比例是一致的這個部分我會來討論來 部長 另外再請教"},{"start":515.43,"end":529.356,"text":"本席的選區以及橫跨整個新北市的太阪輕軌最近第四次可行性評估被推薦第四次它橫跨的是泰山新莊板橋土城中和"},{"start":530.151,"end":552.648,"text":"其實這幾個地方都是光聽名稱地名就是人口密集的地方那第四次可行性評估退回去年本席在請教跟質詢的時候就已經有要求說是不是承諾一個月內匯集相關的審查單位我們跟新北市政府也講清楚到底現在評審委員關心care的點是哪一些一次讓新北市政府補齊啊"},{"start":553.649,"end":568.442,"text":"可是這一次的推薦理由上一次推薦理由是說跟六四線太近影響六四的維修補強主要理由這一次又說要請新北市在舊土地開發效應納入附屬的事業收入一律"},{"start":569.707,"end":584.214,"text":"那這理由就又不一致啦上一次是說維修困難這一次是說這個效益太低或是說收入可能不符合支出你不能把周邊土地開發給納入但是其他的軌道建設有沒有這樣的一個評估其實也都有啊"},{"start":585.074,"end":613.352,"text":"所有的軌道運輸這些評估都放在同步啦那也跟委員報告一下有一個資訊就是說我們針對土地開發效益還有他的附屬事業的收入的這個疑慮在最早的時候就已經有提出不是這一次才提出最早的時候就已經有提出那這幾次的修訂的過程當中應該是新北市政府那邊針對這一項他的說明跟他的這個修正做得還不足所以這一次我們又再提出了一次"},{"start":613.952,"end":634.91,"text":"是那但是我本席在講的是說這一些都是通盤的部分是是那本來一個軌道的建設整個市的開發大眾的使用運輸的狀況我們都需要大家來做一個討論嘛對沒錯那所以說本席才上一次才會講是說是不是請匯集各單位到底你最care的點是哪一點"},{"start":635.791,"end":644.947,"text":"那現在本席先確認因為你也講部長你也講說從第一次就有土地效益的部分那一直到這第四次所以現在土地效益是最大的問題"},{"start":646.235,"end":670.093,"text":"收入就是運量的收入跟土地消費不能劃等號就不要混為一談那如果說能夠克服這一點是不是其他部分就沒有問題目前你不能第三次的時候跟我們講是說是因為64線太近影響64線的維修補強我想每一次的修正的這個提出的問題不會不會只有一個應該是好幾個啦是部長這就是"},{"start":671.214,"end":693.45,"text":"那我們現在要一直歸納嘛我們現在期待的是說當地方政府送給中央政府來審議的時候我們希望是一直歸納問題而不是第三次的時候說這個六四的維修的問題就第四次退回的時候又說土地的問題那每一次都東跳一個西跳一個那永遠沒有辦法那無怪乎地方會認為是說明明有那麼多行經"},{"start":694.691,"end":709.92,"text":"新莊、土城、板橋、泰山、中和這一些大家都期待的軌道建設結果卻因為一而再再而三被鐵道局這邊退回報告委員重點是在於該修正的單位要修正到完整"},{"start":710.74,"end":729.65,"text":"不會是鐵道局的問題鐵道局負責提問題所以我們才會再講是說 部長所以我們才會再講是說請讓我們一次的討論讓大家能夠來聚焦到底你的考題現在著重的點在哪邊嗎這個考題從第一次就已經提出來了他們到現在考題還沒答對部長 來 部長"},{"start":731.874,"end":746.973,"text":"如果趕快答對本席今天本席今天站在這邊是希望反映大家的心聲因為看到真的這不只是本席的選區是這席包括韓瓜很多其實您之前在台中市政府當議員的時候也為台中的軌道來做努力是啊"},{"start":747.693,"end":774.971,"text":"當時也希望是中央不分朝野不分藍綠大家共同的一起面對軌道建設所以我們才會希望在去年的時候我是不是在這裡有去年的時候要求說希望能夠鐵道局找相關部會能夠一次的做討論來把問題釐清讓新北市府能夠來做一個完整的一個說明對 這個都有啦現在新北市府會最快的速度也說九月會再送件那針對這部分鐵道局長還有沒有什麼話說"},{"start":776.37,"end":799.423,"text":"謝謝委員 委員去年特別是有質詢也只是希望我親自來召開這個會議那當時我也開了那現在所講的這些問題其實在當時都跟新北市政府有做過溝通那我們極度的希望新北市政府的修正報告能夠把這個土地開發效益因為所有全國的計畫土地開發效益都是納為自償性經費而不是納為未來營運期間的一種收入"},{"start":801.664,"end":821.273,"text":"那因為這樣子的一個做法應該是新北市政府是首例那因為此例一開的話會影響到所有捷運計畫的一種所謂審議上面的公平性所以這一題我們是真的希望新北市政府能夠這個按照我們的這樣的一個期望去做修正那我們會盡速來協助這個案子往下一個程序來進行"},{"start":822.613,"end":850.571,"text":"兩方部分都要一起努力但最重要的是地方的需求要被重視所以這也是為什麼如果說中央部會有很明確的講清楚那新北市府也要很明確的回答兩方來聚焦才不會讓地方一直有期待是說奇怪怎麼會一而再再而三被退件那我們在中間扮演的就是一個溝通協調的角色就是希望讓兩方可以持續的把問題點給釐清清楚了才能夠往下走嘛是的"},{"start":851.031,"end":867.604,"text":"是這個部分是不是請鐵道局長也再讓我們知道是說上一次開會的一個內容是好不好那我們這邊該要求新北市府再繼續送件我們一定會要求跟督促我們再跟委員報告這都是地方民眾大家共同的期待我們再跟委員報告好 謝謝謝謝委員"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":437,"blocks":[["洪委員孟楷：（11時1分）主席，謝謝。麻煩請陳部長、鄭董事長，還有鐵道局楊局長。"],["主席：陳部長、鐵道局楊局長，兩位董事長還沒？"],["洪委員孟楷：鄭董事長。"],["主席：鄭董事長。"],["陳部長世凱：委員好。"],["洪委員孟楷：部長好。請鄭董事長跟鐵道局局長。我先請教一下鄭董事長，本來以為要幫你點播一首陶晶瑩的「太委屈」，但你今天早上又說不委屈。大家說好話，新官上任做一做。但是我想先請教10年的高鐵人，可不可以講一下，現在新任的史董事長有哪裡比你更優質的地方，讓你覺得他可以勝任高鐵董事長的工作？"],["鄭董事長光遠：對這部分，我沒有評論，因為……"],["洪委員孟楷：沒有評論？"],["鄭董事長光遠：我想史董事長過去的……"],["洪委員孟楷：部長找您說要從高鐵轉換臺鐵，你那時候有沒有問過誰來接高鐵？"],["鄭董事長光遠：我並沒有這樣……"],["洪委員孟楷：沒有問，也不知道誰來接高鐵？反正部長找你，是部長跟您談？"],["鄭董事長光遠：是的。"],["洪委員孟楷：部長跟您談，就是你雖然今年1月才從10年的總經理扶正變成董事長，但是現在要你去接燙手山芋──臺鐵？"],["鄭董事長光遠：確實是部長有跟我講這樣的事情……"],["洪委員孟楷：然後你也沒有問到底誰來接高鐵？"],["鄭董事長光遠：我沒有問。"],["洪委員孟楷：現在揭曉了，你也不覺得有任何奇怪？空降過來也不會？"],["鄭董事長光遠：重點是我被指派這個任務，我是不是有能力去做。"],["洪委員孟楷：董事長，我非常肯定您過去的專業，我也認為您現在願意來臺鐵，要把臺鐵整頓好，我們很期待，所以你提到三個部分：安全、準點以及便捷，這一點本席肯定，但要怎麼做？先請教，現在臺鐵也是多事之秋，不管是漲價或者站務員對旅客咆哮，還是更多是有一些乘客真的會有攻擊站務員的狀況，過去也時有所聞，對不對？"],["鄭董事長光遠：是。"],["洪委員孟楷：你要怎麼樣來做，讓臺鐵人覺得你可以真真正正跟臺鐵人站在一起，並且保護臺鐵人？"],["鄭董事長光遠：最重要的誠如剛才報告的，一定要告訴所有的員工，我們做的是運輸服務業，運輸服務業最重要的是要以旅客的需求為導向，旅客最重要的就是安全，再來就是準點、方便、便捷，這個部分我們一定要努力來做。但是所有的事情要做成一定是要員工來做的，我也認為要有滿意的顧客，一定要先有快樂的員工，所以在要有快樂的員工之下，我一定要很care我的員工是不是能有足夠的安心，所以他的福利是我要努力的重點。"],["洪委員孟楷：努力福利的部分，我看到你上禮拜跟臺鐵工會有先做過座談了，那是企業工會，對不對？"],["鄭董事長光遠：企業工會……"],["洪委員孟楷：產業工會有沒有考慮要座談？"],["鄭董事長光遠：我們來看，因為目前我們先從企業工會來……"],["洪委員孟楷：所以產業工會還沒有安排？"],["鄭董事長光遠：目前還沒有。"],["洪委員孟楷：各地的員工呢？因為看到你們秀出的資料也是幾位代表，對於各地的員工，現在有沒有要整個來了解？"],["鄭董事長光遠：有的，我們陸續會……"],["洪委員孟楷：計畫是什麼？"],["鄭董事長光遠：陸續會到各區，像我上禮拜、上任第三天就到臺東，臺東有來自於各地的壘球隊代表，事實上也是代表全國各地的……"],["洪委員孟楷：代表你現在是行動治理嘛？"],["鄭董事長光遠：對。"],["洪委員孟楷：工會有提出希望能夠提高待遇，你怎麼看？"],["鄭董事長光遠：他們提出來的部分有兩個我們馬上可以處理，一個就是夜間津貼，我覺得夜間津貼一個小時120塊確實太低了，這部分的話……"],["洪委員孟楷：還遠低於現在的時薪。"],["鄭董事長光遠：是，因為是十幾年前訂的。第二個就是主管加給，我覺得主管加給也是跟現在市場行情差太多。"],["洪委員孟楷：不合理。"],["鄭董事長光遠：針對這兩部分，尤其在基層，夜間津貼能夠安員工的心；另外在主管津貼，最主要是中堅幹部很需要這個津貼來鼓勵他們，否則的話，像我們現在有一個問題，有90%的員工還是具有原來公務員的資格，但是新人跟轉任的只有10%，針對這10%一定要有一個激勵的作用，才能夠抓住他們的心。我認為一定要把我們內部員工的整個環境、工資等，即友善職場做好以後，讓員工知道公司是很care他們的，他才能夠服務旅客、才笑得出來。"],["洪委員孟楷：是。但你講了半天還是沒有講清楚，夜間加給跟津貼120元要怎麼調整，多久能夠調整？"],["鄭董事長光遠：我們現在提出來跟工會在討論，會儘快定案。"],["洪委員孟楷：標準是什麼？"],["鄭董事長光遠：標準就是我希望至少依10年來的物價指數調整，應該是最低的門檻，我們用這樣來做。我知道過去要增加薪水的時候，用人費用跟營收占比有一個上限，這是我們的handicap，但是我們今年開始調整票價以後，憑營收的話，分母變大了，所以這個上限就會有空間。"],["洪委員孟楷：本席也正想問，才剛調整完票價，不會因為夜間加給以及津貼調整之後，又要再調整票價吧？"],["鄭董事長光遠：不會。"],["洪委員孟楷：你保證？"],["鄭董事長光遠：是。"],["洪委員孟楷：臺鐵的管理，我們給時間，但是要看到成績。便捷、安全跟準點是最基本的要求，這一點也不過分，所以拜託鄭董事長一定要說到做到。"],["鄭董事長光遠：我全力以赴。"],["洪委員孟楷：抱歉！部長，雖然時間比較有限，但還是有兩個問題跟地方相關，我一定要跟您就教。有關雙層巴士上國道，這個部分是本席過去一直爭取很久的，從去年、前年我質詢的時候，你有承諾，到現在已經有曙光，預計今年年底有可能會上路，但是雙層巴士造價比較高，一臺可能將近2,000萬。"],["陳部長世凱：沒錯。"],["洪委員孟楷：有些業者也開始在講，是不是比照現行巴士補貼的部分來做一些補貼？有沒有相關辦法？"],["陳部長世凱：公共運輸計畫裡面會放進來，所以我們會儘量來協助業者這個部分的補貼。因為我現在也有聽到業者在反映，即便這個政策上路，他們的成本是一個問題。另外就是……"],["洪委員孟楷：但是未來優勢一定大於劣勢。"],["陳部長世凱：沒錯。"],["洪委員孟楷：第一、載的量、乘客人數多，大家可以上車的多，也減少車體的空間，對於國道的通暢度、節能減碳有益，碳排也會降低……"],["陳部長世凱：是，這個會有幫助，所以我們支持這個政策而且在往前推進。委員關心對業者補助的部分，公運計畫也都會提供補助。"],["洪委員孟楷：不要說到最後過了、可以上路了，可是一台都沒看到，因為太貴了，買不起，對不對？"],["陳部長世凱：這個部分，我們會儘量來協助，不過到底要不要買車還是由業者來決定，我們不能替他決定。"],["洪委員孟楷：是，但是我們的補助辦法會在今年年底上路之前一起出來，同步出來？"],["陳部長世凱：這個會同步，因為它是公共運輸的部分，我們該有的補助都會有。"],["洪委員孟楷：好，但至少是跟現行一般巴士補助的比例是一致的？"],["陳部長世凱：這個部分我們會來討論。"],["洪委員孟楷：好，部長，另外再請教，本席的選區以及橫跨整個新北市的泰板輕軌，最近第四次可行性評估被退件。"],["陳部長世凱：是。"],["洪委員孟楷：第四次，它橫跨泰山、新莊、板橋、土城、中和，其實這幾個光聽地名就是人口密集的地方，有關第四次可行性評估退回，去年本席在質詢的時候就已經有要求是不是承諾一個月內匯集相關的審查單位，我們也跟新北市政府講清楚到底現在評審委員關心、care的點是哪一些，一次讓新北市政府補齊，可是上一次退件的主要理由是說跟台64線太近，影響其維修、補強，這一次的退件理由又說要請新北市再就土地開發效應納入附屬事業收入疑慮，這理由又不一致了，上一次是說維修困難，這一次是說效益太低或收入可能不符合支出，不能把周邊土地開發給納入，但是其他的軌道建設有沒有這樣的評估？其實也都有。"],["陳部長世凱：報告委員，所有軌道運輸的這些評估都放在同步，也跟委員報告一下，有一個資訊就是我們針對土地開發效益，還有它的附屬事業收入的疑慮，在最早的時候就已經有提出，不是這一次才提出，是最早的時候就已經有提出，幾次修訂的過程當中，應該是新北市政府那邊針對這一項的說明跟修正做得還不足，所以這次我們又再提出一次。"],["洪委員孟楷：是，但是本席在講的是，這一些都是通盤的部分，本來一個軌道的建設、整個市的開發、大眾的使用、運輸的狀況，我們都需要大家來做討論。"],["陳部長世凱：對，沒錯。"],["洪委員孟楷：所以本席上一次才會講是不是請你們匯集各單位，到底你最care的點是哪一點，現在本席先確認，因為部長也說從第一次就有土地效益的部分，一直到第四次，所以現在土地效益是最大的問題，就是運量的收入跟土地效益不能劃等號，就不要混為一談？"],["陳部長世凱：運量的收入和土地效益，對。"],["洪委員孟楷：其實如果能夠克服這一點，是不是其他部分就沒有問題？"],["陳部長世凱：其實目前運量也有問題，目前……"],["洪委員孟楷：你不能第三次的時候跟我們講是因為離台64線太近，影響其維修、補強……"],["陳部長世凱：我想每一次修正提出的問題不會只有一個，應該是好幾個東西。"],["洪委員孟楷：是，部長，這就是我們現在要一直歸納嘛！"],["陳部長世凱：對、對、對。"],["洪委員孟楷：我們現在期待的是當地方政府送給中央政府審議的時候，我們希望是一直歸納問題，而不是第三次時說是台64線的維修問題，結果第四次退回時又說是土地的問題，每一次都東挑一個、西挑一個，那永遠沒有辦法……無怪乎地方會認為明明行經那麼多包括新莊、土城、板橋、泰山、中和這一些地點，是大家都期待的軌道建設，結果卻一而再、再而三被鐵道局退回。"],["陳部長世凱：報告委員，重點是在於該修正的單位要修正到完整，不會是鐵道局的問題，鐵道局負責提問題，他們答題的要答對啊！"],["洪委員孟楷：部長，所以我們才會講，請讓我們一次討論，讓大家能夠來聚焦，到底你的考題現在著重的點在哪邊？"],["陳部長世凱：報告委員，這個考題從第一次就已經提出來了，他們到現在還沒答對，如果趕快答對就趕快通過，沒有問題。"],["洪委員孟楷：部長，本席今天站在這邊是希望反映大家的心聲，因為看到真的……這不只是本席的選區，其實含括很多，您之前在臺中市政府當議員的時候，也為臺中的軌道來做努力。"],["陳部長世凱：是啊！"],["洪委員孟楷：當時也希望中央不分朝野、不分藍綠，大家共同一起面對軌道建設，所以我們才會在去年的時候，我是不是在這裡有要求，希望鐵道局能夠找相關部會一次做討論來把問題釐清？"],["陳部長世凱：報告委員，都有開會。"],["洪委員孟楷：讓新北市府能夠來做一個完整的說明。"],["陳部長世凱：對，這個都有。"],["洪委員孟楷：現在新北市府會用最快的速度，也說9月會再送件，針對這個部分鐵道局長還有沒有什麼話說？"],["楊局長正君：謝謝委員，委員去年特別有質詢，也指示希望我親自來召開這個會議。"],["洪委員孟楷：是。"],["楊局長正君：當時我也開了，現在所講的這些問題其實在當時都有跟新北市政府做過溝通，我們極度希望新北市政府的修正報告對於土地開發效益，因為所有全國計畫的土地開發效益都是納為自償性經費，而不是納為未來營運期間的總收入。"],["洪委員孟楷：營運的經費。"],["楊局長正君：因為這樣子的一個作法，新北市政府應該是首例，此例一開的話，會影響到所有捷運計畫審議上面的公平性，所以這一題我們是真的希望新北市政府能夠按照我們的期望去做修正，我們會儘速協助這個案子往下一個程序來進行。"],["洪委員孟楷：好，兩方都要一起努力，但最重要的是地方的需求要被重視，所以這也是為什麼中央部會如果很明確地講清楚，新北市政府也要很明確地回答，兩方聚焦才不會讓地方一直有期待，但卻覺得奇怪，怎麼會一而再、再而三被退件？我們在中間扮演的就是一個溝通、協調的角色，希望讓兩方可以持續把問題點釐清，清楚了才能夠往下走。"],["楊局長正君：會，我們會講清楚，是的。"],["洪委員孟楷：這個部分是不是請鐵道局長也讓我們知道上一次開會的內容，好不好？"],["楊局長正君：好的，是，沒問題。"],["洪委員孟楷：我們這邊該要求新北市府再繼續送件，我們一定會要求跟督促。"],["楊局長正君：是，我們再跟委員報告。"],["洪委員孟楷：這都是地方民眾大家共同的期待。"],["楊局長正君：好，我們再跟委員報告。"],["洪委員孟楷：好，謝謝。"],["陳部長世凱：謝謝委員。"],["主席：謝謝洪孟楷委員。現在休息10分鐘，媒體朋友可以自由運用。","休息（11時16分）","繼續開會（11時26分）"],["主席：各位請坐，因為我們今天登記的發言委員算蠻多的，所以拜託除了本會委員，如果是其他委員的話，儘量遵守時間。","現在我們繼續開會。請林俊憲委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":370,"meet_id":"委員會-11-3-23-17","speakers":["林國成","李昆澤","黃國昌","黃健豪","陳素月","何欣純","徐富癸","魯明哲","洪孟楷","林俊憲","蔡其昌","王義川","陳雪生","邱若華","林月琴","陳俊宇","黃建賓","張雅琳","張啓楷","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","王美惠","許智傑","葉元之","游顥","楊瓊瓔","邱鎮軍","廖先翔"],"page_start":301,"meetingDate":["2025-06-25"],"gazette_id":"1146201","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1146201_00013"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期交通委員會第17次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請交通部部長、交通部鐵道局局長、交通部觀光署署長、國營臺灣鐵路股份有限公司董事長及\n台灣高速鐵路股份有限公司董事長率所屬相關單位列席就「交通部觀光署、國營臺灣鐵路股份有\n限公司及台灣高速鐵路股份有限公司人事調整及新任首長之業務展望」進行專題報告，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1146201_00014"}}}