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\"那再請教一下那個部長內政部長就是我們現在詐騙透過AI的語音還有身為的影片還有假客服模組的進行詐騙手法越來越專業所以我們在內政部這邊警政組這邊有沒有升級這個增防的能量比如說警政署跟165的中心有沒有導入AI比對還有即時的網路拔書還有IP鏈接的增援技術還有防詐的這個封鎖的機制我是不是請周局長跟您回應一下\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 423.373, \"end\": 423.633, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"再\", \"start\": 423.633, \"end\": 423.953, \"score\": 0.877}, {\"word\": \"請\"}, {\"word\": \"教\", \"start\": 423.953, \"end\": 424.073, \"score\": 0.958}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 424.073, \"end\": 424.113, \"score\": 0.497}, {\"word\": \"下\", \"start\": 424.113, \"end\": 424.373, \"score\": 0.929}, {\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 424.373, \"end\": 424.913, \"score\": 0.956}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 424.913, \"end\": 425.353, \"score\": 0.86}, {\"word\": \"長\"}, {\"word\": \"內\"}, {\"word\": \"政\", \"start\": 425.353, \"end\": 425.494, \"score\": 0.86}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 425.494, \"end\": 425.914, \"score\": 0.913}, {\"word\": \"長\"}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 425.914, \"end\": 426.034, 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\"局\", \"start\": 451.02, \"end\": 451.38, \"score\": 0.94}, {\"word\": \"長\"}, {\"word\": \"跟\", \"start\": 451.38, \"end\": 451.5, \"score\": 0.988}, {\"word\": \"您\", \"start\": 451.5, \"end\": 451.68, \"score\": 0.888}, {\"word\": \"回\", \"start\": 451.68, \"end\": 451.8, \"score\": 0.923}, {\"word\": \"應\"}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 451.8, \"end\": 451.92, \"score\": 0.833}, {\"word\": \"下\", \"start\": 451.92, \"end\": 451.94, \"score\": 0.001}]}, {\"start\": 454.455, \"end\": 478.61, \"text\": \"那這部分我們其實在我們科技犯罪防治中心在對這部分做個應酬同時我們跟中央部會的其他科技研究院有哪些具體的方式剛剛我講的這些都有嗎因為他現在目前的AI的話事實上運用只是這些影像那事實在這個就是其他的部分並沒有特別的發現說有對AI運用到這上面來\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 454.455, \"end\": 454.916, \"score\": 0.952}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 454.916, \"end\": 455.036, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"分\", \"start\": 455.036, \"end\": 455.176, \"score\": 0.994}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 455.176, \"end\": 455.436, \"score\": 0.921}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"其\", 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\"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"報\"}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 564.507, \"end\": 564.647, \"score\": 0.853}, {\"word\": \"關\"}, {\"word\": \"於\", \"start\": 564.647, \"end\": 564.827, \"score\": 0.833}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"整\", \"start\": 564.827, \"end\": 564.847, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"體\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 564.847, \"end\": 564.947, \"score\": 0.8}, {\"word\": \"詐\"}, {\"word\": \"騙\"}, {\"word\": \"上\", \"start\": 564.947, \"end\": 564.967, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"面\", \"start\": 564.967, \"end\": 564.987, \"score\": 0.989}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 564.987, \"end\": 565.087, \"score\": 0.8}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"需\", \"start\": 565.087, \"end\": 565.107, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"要\", \"start\": 565.107, \"end\": 565.127, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 565.127, \"end\": 565.147, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 565.147, \"end\": 565.247, \"score\": 0.87}, {\"word\": \"防\", 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0.944}, {\"word\": \"啊\", \"start\": 574.191, \"end\": 574.371, \"score\": 0.889}, {\"word\": \"否\", \"start\": 574.371, \"end\": 574.491, \"score\": 0.853}, {\"word\": \"則\"}, {\"word\": \"現\"}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 574.491, \"end\": 574.971, \"score\": 0.925}, {\"word\": \"大\", \"start\": 574.971, \"end\": 575.091, \"score\": 0.84}, {\"word\": \"家\", \"start\": 575.091, \"end\": 575.332, \"score\": 0.862}, {\"word\": \"普\", \"start\": 575.332, \"end\": 575.432, \"score\": 0.975}, {\"word\": \"遍\", \"start\": 575.432, \"end\": 575.532, \"score\": 0.897}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 575.532, \"end\": 575.632, \"score\": 0.931}, {\"word\": \"感\", \"start\": 575.632, \"end\": 575.892, \"score\": 0.843}, {\"word\": \"覺\"}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 575.892, \"end\": 575.992, \"score\": 0.799}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 575.992, \"end\": 576.092, \"score\": 0.966}, {\"word\": \"越\", \"start\": 576.092, \"end\": 576.292, \"score\": 0.9}, {\"word\": \"打\", \"start\": 576.292, 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{\"word\": \"心\", \"start\": 579.275, \"end\": 579.455, \"score\": 0.886}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 579.455, \"end\": 579.655, \"score\": 0.878}, {\"word\": \"看\", \"start\": 579.655, \"end\": 579.796, \"score\": 0.855}, {\"word\": \"到\", \"start\": 579.796, \"end\": 580.016, \"score\": 0.928}, {\"word\": \"犯\", \"start\": 580.016, \"end\": 580.196, \"score\": 0.777}, {\"word\": \"罪\", \"start\": 580.196, \"end\": 580.376, \"score\": 0.887}, {\"word\": \"被\", \"start\": 580.376, \"end\": 580.516, \"score\": 0.856}, {\"word\": \"害\", \"start\": 580.516, \"end\": 581.077, \"score\": 0.927}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"人\", \"start\": 581.077, \"end\": 581.277, \"score\": 0.927}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 581.277, \"end\": 581.537, \"score\": 0.861}, {\"word\": \"心\", \"start\": 581.537, \"end\": 581.757, \"score\": 0.808}, {\"word\": \"情\", \"start\": 581.757, \"end\": 581.777, \"score\": 0.003}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:00,469 --> 00:00:15,283\n我們請內政部劉部長法務部徐次長還有警政署張署長部長好次長好還有署長好請部長看一下這個表格\n\n2\n00:00:17,233 --> 00:00:33,146\n我們現在看到的是打詐儀表板從1月份到5月份詐騙受理的案件大概是72500件那金額是390億元平均每一天大概是2.6億元\n\n3\n00:00:34,887 --> 00:00:56,318\n那我們現在看到的呢這個是警政署的打詐儀表板的一個數據那我們看到的其實不是高通報率高破案率而是詐騙金額仍然高居不下因為這些391億都是我們民眾的血汗錢喔那我看現在剛剛看到一些資料說打詐\n\n4\n00:00:58,400 --> 00:00:59,882\n報告委員,我想我們從來不這樣講,我們有提到說對於被詐騙的人,我們都是用同理心來對待\n\n5\n00:01:15,663 --> 00:01:40,156\n好那當然了我們也知道說也謝謝立法院通過這個打詐釋法之後讓我們有一個法律的這個工具啊來處理有關詐騙集團的部分那現在那個很多部會都通力合作在處理但是我們也發現到樣態也一直在改變現在還是以這個假投資為主的詐騙會比較多所以我們現在在假投資方面包括跟金管會或者是其他的訴發部呢也是一起在慢慢的把這個\n\n6\n00:01:41,517 --> 00:02:01,551\n類似的這個查找的被害人的風險呢慢慢往這方面來移轉那所以跟去年比起來其實我們詐騙的金額是有下降可是我們從不以此為之不斷你說跟去年比起來嘛詐騙的金額有下降請問一下你們一月份到五月份喔查扣不罰所得有多少查扣的部分我是不是請署理我告訴你是31億5068萬\n\n7\n00:02:04,844 --> 00:02:21,676\n你看喔被詐騙391億可是查扣的不法所得才31億5068萬也就是不到一成所以所謂的高破案率高通報率其實呈現出來的並不是那麼一回事所以我覺得我們今天是要來務實的去面對這個問題我們絕對不是說警政署他沒有用心去防詐\n\n8\n00:02:27,340 --> 00:02:55,439\n而是說我們真正要去面對這樣一個問題而且也絕對不是內政部一個部會的事情有經管會有書發部有NCC有法務部大家都要共同來面對才對否則警政署的人力有限他們也沒有辦法做那麼多事情所以我覺得針對這個部分我們今天主要就是要來務實的去面對這個問題因為事實上剛剛向部長講的現在的這個詐騙集團的這個樣態越來越多那尤其不管是主嫌啊車手啊機房啊他們的分工也越來越細緻\n\n9\n00:02:57,781 --> 00:03:18,494\n甚至還制定KPI那這個部分當然我們就必須要與時近鏡也就是我想今天會有這樣一個修法的原因那所以這個部分的話是不是可以請這個部長來說明一下針對這樣的一個目前的一個樣態你們準備要做怎麼樣的一個升級打炸的一個方案\n\n10\n00:03:19,396 --> 00:03:39,805\n呃報告報告委員我想好啊第一個就是說我們在啊過去啊尤其是今年我們提出預算的時候呢啊現在在啊警政署裡面的得到的預算大約是七十億上下好那裡面我們會有一個啊這個科技的這個網路流量的部分現在正在進行當中了好那也就是說我們以往呢在處理的時候呢沒有辦法與時機\n\n11\n00:03:41,266 --> 00:03:57,657\n聚進跟著這個詐騙集團他們非常高的這個科技來處理是因為我們在背後確實是有這種預算要執行上的困擾第一個但是我們在加速進行當中請問一下我們有三警政署的這個打造的預算嗎\n\n12\n00:03:59,599 --> 00:04:18,180\n剛剛李博弈委員講說張志倫委員刪的,我不曉得他刪什麼,我們有刪這個打造的預算嗎?對,有一些部分是有,譬如講像那個,譬如講就是那個對於這個我們對於市造的這個部分,大概刪了大概將近四千萬左右。你們總經費有沒有減少?\n\n13\n00:04:21,355 --> 00:04:35,293\n總經費有減少減少多少減少了這個部分我想應該要再去算就是說因為比較大金額就是減少多少你還不知道表示就不會很多嗎那如果真的不夠我們已經一再講的你可以追加預算嘛是不是\n\n14\n00:04:35,834 --> 00:04:55,223\n所以這個部分我覺得不可以在這邊隨便講這種話說什麼因為事實上我們非常非常的重視這樣打仗的成效所以在整個過程中我們都非常的支持所以只要警政署這邊有需要我相信我們其實藍白委員都是很支持而且很正面那剛剛您講的你現在還不曉得金額多少沒關係你回去算如果真的不夠的話我們就追加預算只要對打仗有利的誰會反對所以這個部分我可能請這個\n\n15\n00:05:03,787 --> 00:05:08,572\n署長回去要好好的來去了解一下不可以在這邊這樣隨便的妄言說什麼因為誰刪了預算所以沒有辦法執行這部分請部長署長一定要來把這個部分釐清\n\n16\n00:05:19,421 --> 00:05:46,064\n那另外就是速發部在去年8月30跟googlelive跟meta三大平台這個合作而且積極的推動速發速發三件而且在記者會上也宣布在廣告的氾濫下是否有考慮修法明文授權平台必須提前審核炸頭的廣告否則還是重罰那還是要靠通報後才下架呢這樣會不會太慢請問一下部長\n\n17\n00:05:48,157 --> 00:05:52,427\n報告委員因為書發部他們有代表過來可不可以請他們回因為他們是來書發部\n\n18\n00:05:58,201 --> 00:06:22,571\n謝謝委員有關於這部分來講的話其實我們有積極在找Google那一Meta那這個過程中其實他們也會希望他們督促因為現在AI氾濫很嚴重嘛所以他們會積極應用一些AI的科技來去防止那另外我們也是開發那個網路通報查詢網我們自己也有研發一個透過AI來預防偵測這些非法的這個廣告來有什麼具體的成效嗎\n\n19\n00:06:24,171 --> 00:06:40,683\n我們過去那個網路通報查詢網來講的話目前已經有下架大概12萬則的這個詐騙預防性的那個詐騙廣告也通通在24小時內完成移除那針對這個部分你們還有什麼精進的方案嗎你覺得這樣的成效很好嗎\n\n20\n00:06:41,747 --> 00:07:02,201\n我們還要持續努力因為其實剛剛有講過詐騙其實越來越多元那我們也需要很多的資訊其實剛剛有提到說不是偽冒名的現在慢慢很多會贈送一些商品免費來去弄那這個東西我們會特別再加入一些關鍵字訓練一些AI的模型然後能夠及早因應發現然後及早能夠讓它下架\n\n21\n00:07:03,373 --> 00:07:31,940\n那再請教一下那個部長內政部長就是我們現在詐騙透過AI的語音還有身為的影片還有假客服模組的進行詐騙手法越來越專業所以我們在內政部這邊警政組這邊有沒有升級這個增防的能量比如說警政署跟165的中心有沒有導入AI比對還有即時的網路拔書還有IP鏈接的增援技術還有防詐的這個封鎖的機制我是不是請周局長跟您回應一下\n\n22\n00:07:34,455 --> 00:07:58,610\n那這部分我們其實在我們科技犯罪防治中心在對這部分做個應酬同時我們跟中央部會的其他科技研究院有哪些具體的方式剛剛我講的這些都有嗎因為他現在目前的AI的話事實上運用只是這些影像那事實在這個就是其他的部分並沒有特別的發現說有對AI運用到這上面來\n\n23\n00:07:59,190 --> 00:08:04,554\n而且他們大數據的分析可能有所以AI的語音還有身為的影片還有這種假客服的模組進行的詐騙這個你們都有方式可以去去這個偵查到嗎\n\n24\n00:08:10,723 --> 00:08:35,866\n這個部分當然確實我們還是有在防守啦因為現在目前看起來就是在假檢警的部分會用到那其他的部分還是用很傳統的那這樣傳統能夠跟得上現在這個詐騙集團的他們那種其實詐騙集團的重點他們事實上我們都有破解只是說他人躲在柬埔寨跟其他國家但事實上我們從菲律賓也有抓到這些類似集團\n\n25\n00:08:36,947 --> 00:09:02,874\n當然我們都知道他們現在機房很多可能都在國外所以為什麼要結合不管是速發部結合這個金管會還要結合其他的這個部會就是因為要來去針對這個部分要提出比如說怎麼樣反正我們現在講說因為機房都在海外所以我們沒有辦法查出來所以我們的詐騙越大越大就是說他用機房的再衍生出來所有的其他的機場我們都有查獲是不是對我想因為時間的關係我想說\n\n26\n00:09:04,855 --> 00:09:25,307\n是不是可以請這個部長可以請我們的行政院長針對召開我們各部會剛講這幾個部會這個能夠跨部會趕快成立一個小組提出因應的方案不能讓這樣的詐騙越打越詐部長可以嗎報告委員那個行政院本來卓院長就有治安匯報那我們在治安匯報裡面的話會提報有關於這個整體的詐騙上面我們需要有的防處跟應變作為\n\n27\n00:09:31,368 --> 00:09:41,777\n是那可能要部長你們多費心啊否則現在大家普遍的感覺就是越打越炸我們已經非常努力我們也同理心的看到犯罪被害這個人的心情謝謝\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n469\t15283\t我們請內政部劉部長 法務部徐次長 還有警政署張署長部長好 次長好 還有署長好請部長看一下這個表格\n17233\t33146\t我們現在看到的是打詐儀表板從1月份到5月份詐騙受理的案件大概是72500件那金額是390億元平均每一天大概是2.6億元\n34887\t56318\t那我們現在看到的呢 這個是警政署的打詐儀表板的一個數據那我們看到的其實不是高通報率 高破案率而是詐騙金額仍然高居不下因為這些391億都是我們民眾的血汗錢喔那我看現在 剛剛看到一些資料說打詐\n58400\t59882\t報告委員,我想我們從來不這樣講,我們有提到說對於被詐騙的人,我們都是用同理心來對待\n75663\t100156\t好那當然了我們也知道說也謝謝立法院通過這個打詐釋法之後讓我們有一個法律的這個工具啊來處理有關詐騙集團的部分那現在那個很多部會都通力合作在處理但是我們也發現到樣態也一直在改變現在還是以這個假投資為主的詐騙會比較多所以我們現在在假投資方面包括跟金管會或者是其他的訴發部呢也是一起在慢慢的把這個\n101517\t121551\t類似的這個查找的被害人的風險呢慢慢往這方面來移轉那所以跟去年比起來其實我們詐騙的金額是有下降可是我們從不以此為之不斷你說跟去年比起來嘛詐騙的金額有下降請問一下你們一月份到五月份喔查扣不罰所得有多少查扣的部分我是不是請署理我告訴你是31億5068萬\n124844\t141676\t你看喔被詐騙391億可是查扣的不法所得才31億5068萬也就是不到一成所以所謂的高破案率高通報率其實呈現出來的並不是那麼一回事所以我覺得我們今天是要來務實的去面對這個問題我們絕對不是說警政署他沒有用心去防詐\n147340\t175439\t而是說我們真正要去面對這樣一個問題而且也絕對不是內政部一個部會的事情有經管會有書發部有NCC有法務部大家都要共同來面對才對否則警政署的人力有限他們也沒有辦法做那麼多事情所以我覺得針對這個部分我們今天主要就是要來務實的去面對這個問題因為事實上剛剛向部長講的現在的這個詐騙集團的這個樣態越來越多那尤其不管是主嫌啊車手啊機房啊他們的分工也越來越細緻\n177781\t198494\t甚至還制定KPI那這個部分當然我們就必須要與時近鏡也就是我想今天會有這樣一個修法的原因那所以這個部分的話是不是可以請這個部長來說明一下針對這樣的一個目前的一個樣態你們準備要做怎麼樣的一個升級打炸的一個方案\n199396\t219805\t呃報告報告委員我想好啊第一個就是說我們在啊過去啊尤其是今年我們提出預算的時候呢啊現在在啊警政署裡面的得到的預算大約是七十億上下好那裡面我們會有一個啊這個科技的這個網路流量的部分現在正在進行當中了好那也就是說我們以往呢在處理的時候呢沒有辦法與時機\n221266\t237657\t聚進跟著這個詐騙集團他們非常高的這個科技來處理是因為我們在背後確實是有這種預算要執行上的困擾第一個但是我們在加速進行當中請問一下我們有三警政署的這個打造的預算嗎\n239599\t258180\t剛剛李博弈委員講說張志倫委員刪的,我不曉得他刪什麼,我們有刪這個打造的預算嗎?對,有一些部分是有,譬如講像那個,譬如講就是那個對於這個我們對於市造的這個部分,大概刪了大概將近四千萬左右。你們總經費有沒有減少?\n261355\t275293\t總經費有減少減少多少減少了這個部分我想應該要再去算就是說因為比較大金額就是減少多少你還不知道表示就不會很多嗎那如果真的不夠我們已經一再講的你可以追加預算嘛是不是\n275834\t295223\t所以這個部分我覺得不可以在這邊隨便講這種話說什麼因為事實上我們非常非常的重視這樣打仗的成效所以在整個過程中我們都非常的支持所以只要警政署這邊有需要我相信我們其實藍白委員都是很支持而且很正面那剛剛您講的你現在還不曉得金額多少沒關係你回去算如果真的不夠的話我們就追加預算只要對打仗有利的誰會反對所以這個部分我可能請這個\n303787\t308572\t署長回去要好好的來去了解一下不可以在這邊這樣隨便的妄言說什麼因為誰刪了預算所以沒有辦法執行這部分請部長署長一定要來把這個部分釐清\n319421\t346064\t那另外就是速發部在去年8月30跟google live跟meta三大平台這個合作而且積極的推動速發速發三件而且在記者會上也宣布在廣告的氾濫下是否有考慮修法明文授權平台必須提前審核炸頭的廣告否則還是重罰那還是要靠通報後才下架呢這樣會不會太慢請問一下部長\n348157\t352427\t報告委員因為書發部他們有代表過來可不可以請他們回因為他們是來書發部\n358201\t382571\t謝謝委員 有關於這部分來講的話其實我們有積極在找Google那一Meta那這個過程中其實他們也會希望他們督促因為現在AI氾濫很嚴重嘛所以他們會積極應用一些AI的科技來去防止那另外我們也是開發那個網路通報查詢網我們自己也有研發一個透過AI來預防偵測這些非法的這個廣告來有什麼具體的成效嗎\n384171\t400683\t我們過去那個網路通報查詢網來講的話目前已經有下架大概12萬則的這個詐騙預防性的那個詐騙廣告也通通在24小時內完成移除那針對這個部分你們還有什麼精進的方案嗎你覺得這樣的成效很好嗎\n401747\t422201\t我們還要持續努力因為其實剛剛有講過詐騙其實越來越多元那我們也需要很多的資訊其實剛剛有提到說不是偽冒名的現在慢慢很多會贈送一些商品免費來去弄那這個東西我們會特別再加入一些關鍵字訓練一些AI的模型然後能夠及早因應發現然後及早能夠讓它下架\n423373\t451940\t那再請教一下那個部長內政部長就是我們現在詐騙透過AI的語音還有身為的影片還有假客服模組的進行詐騙手法越來越專業所以我們在內政部這邊警政組這邊有沒有升級這個增防的能量比如說警政署跟165的中心有沒有導入AI比對還有即時的網路拔書還有IP鏈接的增援技術還有防詐的這個封鎖的機制我是不是請周局長跟您回應一下\n454455\t478610\t那這部分我們其實在我們科技犯罪防治中心在對這部分做個應酬同時我們跟中央部會的其他科技研究院有哪些具體的方式剛剛我講的這些都有嗎因為他現在目前的AI的話事實上運用只是這些影像那事實在這個就是其他的部分並沒有特別的發現說有對AI運用到這上面來\n479190\t484554\t而且他們大數據的分析可能有所以AI的語音還有身為的影片還有這種假客服的模組進行的詐騙這個你們都有方式可以去去這個偵查到嗎\n490723\t515866\t這個部分當然確實我們還是有在防守啦因為現在目前看起來就是在假檢警的部分會用到那其他的部分還是用很傳統的那這樣傳統能夠跟得上現在這個詐騙集團的他們那種其實詐騙集團的重點他們事實上我們都有破解只是說他人躲在柬埔寨跟其他國家但事實上我們從菲律賓也有抓到這些類似集團\n516947\t542874\t當然我們都知道他們現在機房很多可能都在國外所以為什麼要結合不管是速發部結合這個金管會還要結合其他的這個部會就是因為要來去針對這個部分要提出比如說怎麼樣反正我們現在講說因為機房都在海外所以我們沒有辦法查出來所以我們的詐騙越大越大就是說他用機房的再衍生出來所有的其他的機場我們都有查獲是不是對我想因為時間的關係我想說\n544855\t565307\t是不是可以請這個部長可以請我們的行政院長針對召開我們各部會剛講這幾個部會這個能夠跨部會趕快成立一個小組提出因應的方案不能讓這樣的詐騙越打越詐部長可以嗎報告委員那個行政院本來卓院長就有治安匯報那我們在治安匯報裡面的話會提報有關於這個整體的詐騙上面我們需要有的防處跟應變作為\n571368\t581777\t是 那可能要部長你們多費心啊否則現在大家普遍的感覺就是越打越炸我們已經非常努力我們也同理心的看到犯罪被害這個人的心情謝謝\n","txt":"我們請內政部劉部長 法務部徐次長 還有警政署張署長部長好 次長好 還有署長好請部長看一下這個表格\n我們現在看到的是打詐儀表板從1月份到5月份詐騙受理的案件大概是72500件那金額是390億元平均每一天大概是2.6億元\n那我們現在看到的呢 這個是警政署的打詐儀表板的一個數據那我們看到的其實不是高通報率 高破案率而是詐騙金額仍然高居不下因為這些391億都是我們民眾的血汗錢喔那我看現在 剛剛看到一些資料說打詐\n報告委員,我想我們從來不這樣講,我們有提到說對於被詐騙的人,我們都是用同理心來對待\n好那當然了我們也知道說也謝謝立法院通過這個打詐釋法之後讓我們有一個法律的這個工具啊來處理有關詐騙集團的部分那現在那個很多部會都通力合作在處理但是我們也發現到樣態也一直在改變現在還是以這個假投資為主的詐騙會比較多所以我們現在在假投資方面包括跟金管會或者是其他的訴發部呢也是一起在慢慢的把這個\n類似的這個查找的被害人的風險呢慢慢往這方面來移轉那所以跟去年比起來其實我們詐騙的金額是有下降可是我們從不以此為之不斷你說跟去年比起來嘛詐騙的金額有下降請問一下你們一月份到五月份喔查扣不罰所得有多少查扣的部分我是不是請署理我告訴你是31億5068萬\n你看喔被詐騙391億可是查扣的不法所得才31億5068萬也就是不到一成所以所謂的高破案率高通報率其實呈現出來的並不是那麼一回事所以我覺得我們今天是要來務實的去面對這個問題我們絕對不是說警政署他沒有用心去防詐\n而是說我們真正要去面對這樣一個問題而且也絕對不是內政部一個部會的事情有經管會有書發部有NCC有法務部大家都要共同來面對才對否則警政署的人力有限他們也沒有辦法做那麼多事情所以我覺得針對這個部分我們今天主要就是要來務實的去面對這個問題因為事實上剛剛向部長講的現在的這個詐騙集團的這個樣態越來越多那尤其不管是主嫌啊車手啊機房啊他們的分工也越來越細緻\n甚至還制定KPI那這個部分當然我們就必須要與時近鏡也就是我想今天會有這樣一個修法的原因那所以這個部分的話是不是可以請這個部長來說明一下針對這樣的一個目前的一個樣態你們準備要做怎麼樣的一個升級打炸的一個方案\n呃報告報告委員我想好啊第一個就是說我們在啊過去啊尤其是今年我們提出預算的時候呢啊現在在啊警政署裡面的得到的預算大約是七十億上下好那裡面我們會有一個啊這個科技的這個網路流量的部分現在正在進行當中了好那也就是說我們以往呢在處理的時候呢沒有辦法與時機\n聚進跟著這個詐騙集團他們非常高的這個科技來處理是因為我們在背後確實是有這種預算要執行上的困擾第一個但是我們在加速進行當中請問一下我們有三警政署的這個打造的預算嗎\n剛剛李博弈委員講說張志倫委員刪的,我不曉得他刪什麼,我們有刪這個打造的預算嗎?對,有一些部分是有,譬如講像那個,譬如講就是那個對於這個我們對於市造的這個部分,大概刪了大概將近四千萬左右。你們總經費有沒有減少?\n總經費有減少減少多少減少了這個部分我想應該要再去算就是說因為比較大金額就是減少多少你還不知道表示就不會很多嗎那如果真的不夠我們已經一再講的你可以追加預算嘛是不是\n所以這個部分我覺得不可以在這邊隨便講這種話說什麼因為事實上我們非常非常的重視這樣打仗的成效所以在整個過程中我們都非常的支持所以只要警政署這邊有需要我相信我們其實藍白委員都是很支持而且很正面那剛剛您講的你現在還不曉得金額多少沒關係你回去算如果真的不夠的話我們就追加預算只要對打仗有利的誰會反對所以這個部分我可能請這個\n署長回去要好好的來去了解一下不可以在這邊這樣隨便的妄言說什麼因為誰刪了預算所以沒有辦法執行這部分請部長署長一定要來把這個部分釐清\n那另外就是速發部在去年8月30跟google live跟meta三大平台這個合作而且積極的推動速發速發三件而且在記者會上也宣布在廣告的氾濫下是否有考慮修法明文授權平台必須提前審核炸頭的廣告否則還是重罰那還是要靠通報後才下架呢這樣會不會太慢請問一下部長\n報告委員因為書發部他們有代表過來可不可以請他們回因為他們是來書發部\n謝謝委員 有關於這部分來講的話其實我們有積極在找Google那一Meta那這個過程中其實他們也會希望他們督促因為現在AI氾濫很嚴重嘛所以他們會積極應用一些AI的科技來去防止那另外我們也是開發那個網路通報查詢網我們自己也有研發一個透過AI來預防偵測這些非法的這個廣告來有什麼具體的成效嗎\n我們過去那個網路通報查詢網來講的話目前已經有下架大概12萬則的這個詐騙預防性的那個詐騙廣告也通通在24小時內完成移除那針對這個部分你們還有什麼精進的方案嗎你覺得這樣的成效很好嗎\n我們還要持續努力因為其實剛剛有講過詐騙其實越來越多元那我們也需要很多的資訊其實剛剛有提到說不是偽冒名的現在慢慢很多會贈送一些商品免費來去弄那這個東西我們會特別再加入一些關鍵字訓練一些AI的模型然後能夠及早因應發現然後及早能夠讓它下架\n那再請教一下那個部長內政部長就是我們現在詐騙透過AI的語音還有身為的影片還有假客服模組的進行詐騙手法越來越專業所以我們在內政部這邊警政組這邊有沒有升級這個增防的能量比如說警政署跟165的中心有沒有導入AI比對還有即時的網路拔書還有IP鏈接的增援技術還有防詐的這個封鎖的機制我是不是請周局長跟您回應一下\n那這部分我們其實在我們科技犯罪防治中心在對這部分做個應酬同時我們跟中央部會的其他科技研究院有哪些具體的方式剛剛我講的這些都有嗎因為他現在目前的AI的話事實上運用只是這些影像那事實在這個就是其他的部分並沒有特別的發現說有對AI運用到這上面來\n而且他們大數據的分析可能有所以AI的語音還有身為的影片還有這種假客服的模組進行的詐騙這個你們都有方式可以去去這個偵查到嗎\n這個部分當然確實我們還是有在防守啦因為現在目前看起來就是在假檢警的部分會用到那其他的部分還是用很傳統的那這樣傳統能夠跟得上現在這個詐騙集團的他們那種其實詐騙集團的重點他們事實上我們都有破解只是說他人躲在柬埔寨跟其他國家但事實上我們從菲律賓也有抓到這些類似集團\n當然我們都知道他們現在機房很多可能都在國外所以為什麼要結合不管是速發部結合這個金管會還要結合其他的這個部會就是因為要來去針對這個部分要提出比如說怎麼樣反正我們現在講說因為機房都在海外所以我們沒有辦法查出來所以我們的詐騙越大越大就是說他用機房的再衍生出來所有的其他的機場我們都有查獲是不是對我想因為時間的關係我想說\n是不是可以請這個部長可以請我們的行政院長針對召開我們各部會剛講這幾個部會這個能夠跨部會趕快成立一個小組提出因應的方案不能讓這樣的詐騙越打越詐部長可以嗎報告委員那個行政院本來卓院長就有治安匯報那我們在治安匯報裡面的話會提報有關於這個整體的詐騙上面我們需要有的防處跟應變作為\n是 那可能要部長你們多費心啊否則現在大家普遍的感覺就是越打越炸我們已經非常努力我們也同理心的看到犯罪被害這個人的心情謝謝\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.469 --> 00:15.283\n我們請內政部劉部長法務部徐次長還有警政署張署長部長好次長好還有署長好請部長看一下這個表格\n\n00:17.233 --> 00:33.146\n我們現在看到的是打詐儀表板從1月份到5月份詐騙受理的案件大概是72500件那金額是390億元平均每一天大概是2.6億元\n\n00:34.887 --> 00:56.318\n那我們現在看到的呢這個是警政署的打詐儀表板的一個數據那我們看到的其實不是高通報率高破案率而是詐騙金額仍然高居不下因為這些391億都是我們民眾的血汗錢喔那我看現在剛剛看到一些資料說打詐\n\n00:58.400 --> 00:59.882\n報告委員,我想我們從來不這樣講,我們有提到說對於被詐騙的人,我們都是用同理心來對待\n\n01:15.663 --> 01:40.156\n好那當然了我們也知道說也謝謝立法院通過這個打詐釋法之後讓我們有一個法律的這個工具啊來處理有關詐騙集團的部分那現在那個很多部會都通力合作在處理但是我們也發現到樣態也一直在改變現在還是以這個假投資為主的詐騙會比較多所以我們現在在假投資方面包括跟金管會或者是其他的訴發部呢也是一起在慢慢的把這個\n\n01:41.517 --> 02:01.551\n類似的這個查找的被害人的風險呢慢慢往這方面來移轉那所以跟去年比起來其實我們詐騙的金額是有下降可是我們從不以此為之不斷你說跟去年比起來嘛詐騙的金額有下降請問一下你們一月份到五月份喔查扣不罰所得有多少查扣的部分我是不是請署理我告訴你是31億5068萬\n\n02:04.844 --> 02:21.676\n你看喔被詐騙391億可是查扣的不法所得才31億5068萬也就是不到一成所以所謂的高破案率高通報率其實呈現出來的並不是那麼一回事所以我覺得我們今天是要來務實的去面對這個問題我們絕對不是說警政署他沒有用心去防詐\n\n02:27.340 --> 02:55.439\n而是說我們真正要去面對這樣一個問題而且也絕對不是內政部一個部會的事情有經管會有書發部有NCC有法務部大家都要共同來面對才對否則警政署的人力有限他們也沒有辦法做那麼多事情所以我覺得針對這個部分我們今天主要就是要來務實的去面對這個問題因為事實上剛剛向部長講的現在的這個詐騙集團的這個樣態越來越多那尤其不管是主嫌啊車手啊機房啊他們的分工也越來越細緻\n\n02:57.781 --> 03:18.494\n甚至還制定KPI那這個部分當然我們就必須要與時近鏡也就是我想今天會有這樣一個修法的原因那所以這個部分的話是不是可以請這個部長來說明一下針對這樣的一個目前的一個樣態你們準備要做怎麼樣的一個升級打炸的一個方案\n\n03:19.396 --> 03:39.805\n呃報告報告委員我想好啊第一個就是說我們在啊過去啊尤其是今年我們提出預算的時候呢啊現在在啊警政署裡面的得到的預算大約是七十億上下好那裡面我們會有一個啊這個科技的這個網路流量的部分現在正在進行當中了好那也就是說我們以往呢在處理的時候呢沒有辦法與時機\n\n03:41.266 --> 03:57.657\n聚進跟著這個詐騙集團他們非常高的這個科技來處理是因為我們在背後確實是有這種預算要執行上的困擾第一個但是我們在加速進行當中請問一下我們有三警政署的這個打造的預算嗎\n\n03:59.599 --> 04:18.180\n剛剛李博弈委員講說張志倫委員刪的,我不曉得他刪什麼,我們有刪這個打造的預算嗎?對,有一些部分是有,譬如講像那個,譬如講就是那個對於這個我們對於市造的這個部分,大概刪了大概將近四千萬左右。你們總經費有沒有減少?\n\n04:21.355 --> 04:35.293\n總經費有減少減少多少減少了這個部分我想應該要再去算就是說因為比較大金額就是減少多少你還不知道表示就不會很多嗎那如果真的不夠我們已經一再講的你可以追加預算嘛是不是\n\n04:35.834 --> 04:55.223\n所以這個部分我覺得不可以在這邊隨便講這種話說什麼因為事實上我們非常非常的重視這樣打仗的成效所以在整個過程中我們都非常的支持所以只要警政署這邊有需要我相信我們其實藍白委員都是很支持而且很正面那剛剛您講的你現在還不曉得金額多少沒關係你回去算如果真的不夠的話我們就追加預算只要對打仗有利的誰會反對所以這個部分我可能請這個\n\n05:03.787 --> 05:08.572\n署長回去要好好的來去了解一下不可以在這邊這樣隨便的妄言說什麼因為誰刪了預算所以沒有辦法執行這部分請部長署長一定要來把這個部分釐清\n\n05:19.421 --> 05:46.064\n那另外就是速發部在去年8月30跟googlelive跟meta三大平台這個合作而且積極的推動速發速發三件而且在記者會上也宣布在廣告的氾濫下是否有考慮修法明文授權平台必須提前審核炸頭的廣告否則還是重罰那還是要靠通報後才下架呢這樣會不會太慢請問一下部長\n\n05:48.157 --> 05:52.427\n報告委員因為書發部他們有代表過來可不可以請他們回因為他們是來書發部\n\n05:58.201 --> 06:22.571\n謝謝委員有關於這部分來講的話其實我們有積極在找Google那一Meta那這個過程中其實他們也會希望他們督促因為現在AI氾濫很嚴重嘛所以他們會積極應用一些AI的科技來去防止那另外我們也是開發那個網路通報查詢網我們自己也有研發一個透過AI來預防偵測這些非法的這個廣告來有什麼具體的成效嗎\n\n06:24.171 --> 06:40.683\n我們過去那個網路通報查詢網來講的話目前已經有下架大概12萬則的這個詐騙預防性的那個詐騙廣告也通通在24小時內完成移除那針對這個部分你們還有什麼精進的方案嗎你覺得這樣的成效很好嗎\n\n06:41.747 --> 07:02.201\n我們還要持續努力因為其實剛剛有講過詐騙其實越來越多元那我們也需要很多的資訊其實剛剛有提到說不是偽冒名的現在慢慢很多會贈送一些商品免費來去弄那這個東西我們會特別再加入一些關鍵字訓練一些AI的模型然後能夠及早因應發現然後及早能夠讓它下架\n\n07:03.373 --> 07:31.940\n那再請教一下那個部長內政部長就是我們現在詐騙透過AI的語音還有身為的影片還有假客服模組的進行詐騙手法越來越專業所以我們在內政部這邊警政組這邊有沒有升級這個增防的能量比如說警政署跟165的中心有沒有導入AI比對還有即時的網路拔書還有IP鏈接的增援技術還有防詐的這個封鎖的機制我是不是請周局長跟您回應一下\n\n07:34.455 --> 07:58.610\n那這部分我們其實在我們科技犯罪防治中心在對這部分做個應酬同時我們跟中央部會的其他科技研究院有哪些具體的方式剛剛我講的這些都有嗎因為他現在目前的AI的話事實上運用只是這些影像那事實在這個就是其他的部分並沒有特別的發現說有對AI運用到這上面來\n\n07:59.190 --> 08:04.554\n而且他們大數據的分析可能有所以AI的語音還有身為的影片還有這種假客服的模組進行的詐騙這個你們都有方式可以去去這個偵查到嗎\n\n08:10.723 --> 08:35.866\n這個部分當然確實我們還是有在防守啦因為現在目前看起來就是在假檢警的部分會用到那其他的部分還是用很傳統的那這樣傳統能夠跟得上現在這個詐騙集團的他們那種其實詐騙集團的重點他們事實上我們都有破解只是說他人躲在柬埔寨跟其他國家但事實上我們從菲律賓也有抓到這些類似集團\n\n08:36.947 --> 09:02.874\n當然我們都知道他們現在機房很多可能都在國外所以為什麼要結合不管是速發部結合這個金管會還要結合其他的這個部會就是因為要來去針對這個部分要提出比如說怎麼樣反正我們現在講說因為機房都在海外所以我們沒有辦法查出來所以我們的詐騙越大越大就是說他用機房的再衍生出來所有的其他的機場我們都有查獲是不是對我想因為時間的關係我想說\n\n09:04.855 --> 09:25.307\n是不是可以請這個部長可以請我們的行政院長針對召開我們各部會剛講這幾個部會這個能夠跨部會趕快成立一個小組提出因應的方案不能讓這樣的詐騙越打越詐部長可以嗎報告委員那個行政院本來卓院長就有治安匯報那我們在治安匯報裡面的話會提報有關於這個整體的詐騙上面我們需要有的防處跟應變作為\n\n09:31.368 --> 09:41.777\n是那可能要部長你們多費心啊否則現在大家普遍的感覺就是越打越炸我們已經非常努力我們也同理心的看到犯罪被害這個人的心情謝謝\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.469,"end":15.283,"text":"我們請內政部劉部長 法務部徐次長 還有警政署張署長部長好 次長好 還有署長好請部長看一下這個表格"},{"start":17.233,"end":33.146,"text":"我們現在看到的是打詐儀表板從1月份到5月份詐騙受理的案件大概是72500件那金額是390億元平均每一天大概是2.6億元"},{"start":34.887,"end":56.318,"text":"那我們現在看到的呢 這個是警政署的打詐儀表板的一個數據那我們看到的其實不是高通報率 高破案率而是詐騙金額仍然高居不下因為這些391億都是我們民眾的血汗錢喔那我看現在 剛剛看到一些資料說打詐"},{"start":58.4,"end":59.882,"text":"報告委員,我想我們從來不這樣講,我們有提到說對於被詐騙的人,我們都是用同理心來對待"},{"start":75.663,"end":100.156,"text":"好那當然了我們也知道說也謝謝立法院通過這個打詐釋法之後讓我們有一個法律的這個工具啊來處理有關詐騙集團的部分那現在那個很多部會都通力合作在處理但是我們也發現到樣態也一直在改變現在還是以這個假投資為主的詐騙會比較多所以我們現在在假投資方面包括跟金管會或者是其他的訴發部呢也是一起在慢慢的把這個"},{"start":101.517,"end":121.551,"text":"類似的這個查找的被害人的風險呢慢慢往這方面來移轉那所以跟去年比起來其實我們詐騙的金額是有下降可是我們從不以此為之不斷你說跟去年比起來嘛詐騙的金額有下降請問一下你們一月份到五月份喔查扣不罰所得有多少查扣的部分我是不是請署理我告訴你是31億5068萬"},{"start":124.844,"end":141.676,"text":"你看喔被詐騙391億可是查扣的不法所得才31億5068萬也就是不到一成所以所謂的高破案率高通報率其實呈現出來的並不是那麼一回事所以我覺得我們今天是要來務實的去面對這個問題我們絕對不是說警政署他沒有用心去防詐"},{"start":147.34,"end":175.439,"text":"而是說我們真正要去面對這樣一個問題而且也絕對不是內政部一個部會的事情有經管會有書發部有NCC有法務部大家都要共同來面對才對否則警政署的人力有限他們也沒有辦法做那麼多事情所以我覺得針對這個部分我們今天主要就是要來務實的去面對這個問題因為事實上剛剛向部長講的現在的這個詐騙集團的這個樣態越來越多那尤其不管是主嫌啊車手啊機房啊他們的分工也越來越細緻"},{"start":177.781,"end":198.494,"text":"甚至還制定KPI那這個部分當然我們就必須要與時近鏡也就是我想今天會有這樣一個修法的原因那所以這個部分的話是不是可以請這個部長來說明一下針對這樣的一個目前的一個樣態你們準備要做怎麼樣的一個升級打炸的一個方案"},{"start":199.396,"end":219.805,"text":"呃報告報告委員我想好啊第一個就是說我們在啊過去啊尤其是今年我們提出預算的時候呢啊現在在啊警政署裡面的得到的預算大約是七十億上下好那裡面我們會有一個啊這個科技的這個網路流量的部分現在正在進行當中了好那也就是說我們以往呢在處理的時候呢沒有辦法與時機"},{"start":221.266,"end":237.657,"text":"聚進跟著這個詐騙集團他們非常高的這個科技來處理是因為我們在背後確實是有這種預算要執行上的困擾第一個但是我們在加速進行當中請問一下我們有三警政署的這個打造的預算嗎"},{"start":239.599,"end":258.18,"text":"剛剛李博弈委員講說張志倫委員刪的,我不曉得他刪什麼,我們有刪這個打造的預算嗎?對,有一些部分是有,譬如講像那個,譬如講就是那個對於這個我們對於市造的這個部分,大概刪了大概將近四千萬左右。你們總經費有沒有減少?"},{"start":261.355,"end":275.293,"text":"總經費有減少減少多少減少了這個部分我想應該要再去算就是說因為比較大金額就是減少多少你還不知道表示就不會很多嗎那如果真的不夠我們已經一再講的你可以追加預算嘛是不是"},{"start":275.834,"end":295.223,"text":"所以這個部分我覺得不可以在這邊隨便講這種話說什麼因為事實上我們非常非常的重視這樣打仗的成效所以在整個過程中我們都非常的支持所以只要警政署這邊有需要我相信我們其實藍白委員都是很支持而且很正面那剛剛您講的你現在還不曉得金額多少沒關係你回去算如果真的不夠的話我們就追加預算只要對打仗有利的誰會反對所以這個部分我可能請這個"},{"start":303.787,"end":308.572,"text":"署長回去要好好的來去了解一下不可以在這邊這樣隨便的妄言說什麼因為誰刪了預算所以沒有辦法執行這部分請部長署長一定要來把這個部分釐清"},{"start":319.421,"end":346.064,"text":"那另外就是速發部在去年8月30跟google live跟meta三大平台這個合作而且積極的推動速發速發三件而且在記者會上也宣布在廣告的氾濫下是否有考慮修法明文授權平台必須提前審核炸頭的廣告否則還是重罰那還是要靠通報後才下架呢這樣會不會太慢請問一下部長"},{"start":348.157,"end":352.427,"text":"報告委員因為書發部他們有代表過來可不可以請他們回因為他們是來書發部"},{"start":358.201,"end":382.571,"text":"謝謝委員 有關於這部分來講的話其實我們有積極在找Google那一Meta那這個過程中其實他們也會希望他們督促因為現在AI氾濫很嚴重嘛所以他們會積極應用一些AI的科技來去防止那另外我們也是開發那個網路通報查詢網我們自己也有研發一個透過AI來預防偵測這些非法的這個廣告來有什麼具體的成效嗎"},{"start":384.171,"end":400.683,"text":"我們過去那個網路通報查詢網來講的話目前已經有下架大概12萬則的這個詐騙預防性的那個詐騙廣告也通通在24小時內完成移除那針對這個部分你們還有什麼精進的方案嗎你覺得這樣的成效很好嗎"},{"start":401.747,"end":422.201,"text":"我們還要持續努力因為其實剛剛有講過詐騙其實越來越多元那我們也需要很多的資訊其實剛剛有提到說不是偽冒名的現在慢慢很多會贈送一些商品免費來去弄那這個東西我們會特別再加入一些關鍵字訓練一些AI的模型然後能夠及早因應發現然後及早能夠讓它下架"},{"start":423.373,"end":451.94,"text":"那再請教一下那個部長內政部長就是我們現在詐騙透過AI的語音還有身為的影片還有假客服模組的進行詐騙手法越來越專業所以我們在內政部這邊警政組這邊有沒有升級這個增防的能量比如說警政署跟165的中心有沒有導入AI比對還有即時的網路拔書還有IP鏈接的增援技術還有防詐的這個封鎖的機制我是不是請周局長跟您回應一下"},{"start":454.455,"end":478.61,"text":"那這部分我們其實在我們科技犯罪防治中心在對這部分做個應酬同時我們跟中央部會的其他科技研究院有哪些具體的方式剛剛我講的這些都有嗎因為他現在目前的AI的話事實上運用只是這些影像那事實在這個就是其他的部分並沒有特別的發現說有對AI運用到這上面來"},{"start":479.19,"end":484.554,"text":"而且他們大數據的分析可能有所以AI的語音還有身為的影片還有這種假客服的模組進行的詐騙這個你們都有方式可以去去這個偵查到嗎"},{"start":490.723,"end":515.866,"text":"這個部分當然確實我們還是有在防守啦因為現在目前看起來就是在假檢警的部分會用到那其他的部分還是用很傳統的那這樣傳統能夠跟得上現在這個詐騙集團的他們那種其實詐騙集團的重點他們事實上我們都有破解只是說他人躲在柬埔寨跟其他國家但事實上我們從菲律賓也有抓到這些類似集團"},{"start":516.947,"end":542.874,"text":"當然我們都知道他們現在機房很多可能都在國外所以為什麼要結合不管是速發部結合這個金管會還要結合其他的這個部會就是因為要來去針對這個部分要提出比如說怎麼樣反正我們現在講說因為機房都在海外所以我們沒有辦法查出來所以我們的詐騙越大越大就是說他用機房的再衍生出來所有的其他的機場我們都有查獲是不是對我想因為時間的關係我想說"},{"start":544.855,"end":565.307,"text":"是不是可以請這個部長可以請我們的行政院長針對召開我們各部會剛講這幾個部會這個能夠跨部會趕快成立一個小組提出因應的方案不能讓這樣的詐騙越打越詐部長可以嗎報告委員那個行政院本來卓院長就有治安匯報那我們在治安匯報裡面的話會提報有關於這個整體的詐騙上面我們需要有的防處跟應變作為"},{"start":571.368,"end":581.777,"text":"是 那可能要部長你們多費心啊否則現在大家普遍的感覺就是越打越炸我們已經非常努力我們也同理心的看到犯罪被害這個人的心情謝謝"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":429,"blocks":[["許委員宇甄：（10時41分）謝謝主席。我們請內政部劉部長、法務部徐次長和警政署張署長。"],["劉部長世芳：委員好。"],["許委員宇甄：部長好、次長好、署長好。請部長看一下這個表格，我們現在看到的是打詐儀錶板，從1月份到5月份，詐騙受理的案件大概是7萬2,500件，金額是391億元，平均每一天大概是2.6億元。我們現在看到的這個是警政署的打詐儀錶板的數據，我們看到的其實不是高通報率、高破案率，而是詐騙金額仍然高居不下，這391億都是我們民眾的血汗錢。剛剛看到一些資料提及，你們成立打詐國家隊之後開了很多會議，也覺得目前是打詐有成，以這樣來看，部長，這就是你們口中的打詐有成嗎？"],["劉部長世芳：報告委員，我想我們從來不這樣講，我們有提到對於被詐騙的人，我們都是用同理心來對待，當然我們也知道，也謝謝立法院通過打詐四法之後，讓我們有一個法律的工具來處理有關詐騙集團的部分，現在很多部會都通力合作在處理，但是我們也發現到樣態一直在改變，現在還是以假投資為主的詐騙會比較多，所以我們現在在假投資方面，包括跟金管會或者是其他的數發部，也是一起把類似查找被害人的風險慢慢的往這方面移轉，所以跟去年比起來，其實我們詐騙的金額是有下降，可是我們從不以此為自滿。"],["許委員宇甄：部長，您說跟去年比起來，詐騙的金額有下降，請問一下，你們1月份到5月份查扣不法所得有多少？"],["劉部長世芳：查扣的部分，我是不是可以請署裡頭來回應一下？"],["許委員宇甄：我告訴你，是31億5,068萬，你看，被詐騙了391億，可是查扣的不法所得才31億5,068萬，也就是不到一成，所以所謂的高破案率、高通報率，其實呈現出來的並不是那麼一回事，所以我覺得我們今天要務實地去面對這個問題，我們絕對不是說警政署沒有用心去防詐，而是說我們要真正去面對這個問題，而且這絕對不是內政部一個部會的事情，包括金管會、數發部、NCC、法務部，大家都要共同來面對才對，否則警政署的人力有限，他們也沒有辦法做那麼多事情。所以我覺得針對這個部分，我們今天主要就是要務實地去面對這個問題，因為事實上像剛剛部長講的，現在詐騙集團的樣態越來越多，不管是主嫌、車手、機房，他們的分工也越來越細緻，甚至還制定KPI，這個部分我們當然就必須與時俱進，我想也就是今天會有這樣一個修法的原因。這個部分是不是可以請部長來說明一下，針對目前的樣態，你們準備要做怎麼樣的升級的打詐方案？"],["劉部長世芳：報告委員，第一個，我們在過去尤其是今年我們提出預算的時候，現在在警政署裡面得到的預算大約是70億上下，這裡面會有一個科技網路流量的部分，現在正在進行當中，也就是說，我們以往在處理的時候沒有辦法與時俱進，跟著詐騙集團非常高的科技來處理，是因為我們在背後確實是有預算要執行上的困擾，這是第一個，但是我們在加速進行當中。"],["許委員宇甄：部長剛剛提到了預算，請問一下，我們有刪警政署打詐的預算嗎？剛剛李柏毅委員講說張智倫委員刪的，我不曉得他刪什麼，我們有刪打詐的預算嗎？"],["張署長榮興：對，有一些、有部分是有，比如說我們對於識詐這個部分，大概刪了將近4,000萬。"],["許委員宇甄：你們總經費有沒有減少？"],["張署長榮興：總經費有減少。"],["許委員宇甄：減少多少？"],["張署長榮興：減少的部分我想應該要再去算，因為比較大金額就是……"],["許委員宇甄：減少多少你還不知道就表示不會很多嘛，如果真的不夠，我們已經一再講了，你可以追加預算，是不是？所以這個部分我覺得不可以在這邊隨便講這種話，因為事實上我們非常非常重視打詐的成效，所以在整個過程中，我們都非常的支持，只要警政署這邊有需要，我相信其實藍、白委員都是很支持而且是很正面。剛剛你說現在還不曉得金額有多少，沒關係，你回去算，如果真的不夠的話就追加預算，只要對打詐有利的誰會反對？所以這個部分可能要請署長回去好好了解一下，不可以在這邊這樣隨便妄言說什麼因為誰刪了預算，所以沒有辦法執行，請部長、署長一定要把這個部分釐清！","另外，數發部在去年8月30日跟Google、LINE、Meta三大平臺合作，積極地推動數發三箭，而且在記者會上也宣布，在廣告氾濫下，是否有考慮修法明文授權平臺必須提前審核詐投的廣告，否則還是重罰？還是要靠通報後才下架呢？這樣會不會太慢？請問一下部長。"],["劉部長世芳：報告委員，因為數發部他們有代表過來，可不可以請他們回應？"],["許委員宇甄：好，OK，謝謝。"],["主席：請數發部。"],["林組長青嶔：謝謝委員。有關於這部分來講，其實我們有積極在找Google、LINE、Meta洽談，在這個過程中其實也會希望督促他們，因為現在AI氾濫很嚴重，所以他們會積極運用一些AI的科技來去防止。另外，我們也開發了網路通報查詢網，我們自己有研發一個透過AI來預防、偵測這些非法的廣告來……"],["許委員宇甄：有什麼具體成效嗎？"],["林組長青嶔：我們以網路通報查詢網來講的話，目前已經預防性下架大概12萬則詐騙廣告，統統在24小時內完成移除。"],["許委員宇甄：針對這個部分，你們還有什麼精進的方案嗎？你覺得這樣的成效很好嗎？"],["林組長青嶔：我們還要持續努力，因為剛剛有講過，詐騙其實越來越多元，我們也需要很多的資訊，剛剛有提到不是偽冒名人，現在慢慢很多會贈送一些商品，以免費的方式來做，這個部分我們會特別加入一些關鍵字，訓練一些AI的模型，然後能夠及早因應、發現，及早能夠讓它下架。"],["許委員宇甄：好。再請教一下內政部長，我們現在詐騙透過AI的語音、深偽的影片，還有假客服模組等進行詐騙，手法越來越專業，所以內政部、警政署這邊有沒有升級偵防的能量？比如說，警政署跟165的中心有沒有導入AI比對、即時的網路爬梳、IP鏈結的增源技術，還有防詐的封鎖機制？"],["劉部長世芳：我是不是請周局長跟您回應一下？"],["許委員宇甄：好。"],["周局長幼偉：委員好。關於這個部分，我們有科技犯罪防制中心在對這部分做一個應處，同時我們跟中央部會的其他科技……"],["許委員宇甄：有哪些具體的方式？剛剛我講的這些都有嗎？"],["周局長幼偉：因為目前的AI，事實上運用的只是影像，在其他部分並沒有特別發現有AI運用到這上面來，他們大數據的分析可能有，但其他部分……"],["許委員宇甄：所以AI的語音，還有深偽的影片，還有這種假客服的模組進行的詐騙，這個你們都有方式可以偵查到嗎？"],["周局長幼偉：這個部分當然我們還是有在防阻，目前看起來就是假檢警的部分會用到，其他部分還是用很傳統的。"],["許委員宇甄：那這樣傳統能夠跟得上現在詐騙集團他們那種日新月異的科技嗎？"],["周局長幼偉：詐騙集團的重點事實上我們都有破解，只是說他人躲在柬埔寨跟其他國家，但我們從菲律賓也有抓到類似集團。"],["許委員宇甄：我們都知道他們很多機房可能都在國外。"],["周局長幼偉：因為那個……"],["許委員宇甄：所以為什麼要結合不管是數發部、結合金管會，還有結合其他各部會，就是因為要去針對這個部分提出怎麼樣……否則我們現在說因為機房都在海外，所以沒有辦法查出來。"],["周局長幼偉：不是這麼說。"],["許委員宇甄：所以我們的詐騙越打越詐。"],["周局長幼偉：就是再衍生出來的所有其他集團，我們都有查獲，不是因為機房在柬埔寨的關係。"],["許委員宇甄：因為時間的關係，我想是不是請部長可以請行政院長召開剛剛講的這幾個部會，能夠跨部會趕快成立一個小組提出因應方案，不能讓這樣的詐騙越打越詐，部長，可以嗎？"],["劉部長世芳：報告委員，行政院本來卓院長就有治安會報，我們在治安會報裡面會提報有關於整體詐騙上面我們需要有的防處跟應變作為。"],["許委員宇甄：是，可能要部長你們多費心，否則現在大家普遍的感覺就是越打越詐。"],["劉部長世芳：我們已經非常努力，我們也同理心看到犯罪被害人的心情。"],["許委員宇甄：好，大家一起加油好嗎？謝謝。"],["主席：感謝許宇甄委員質詢。","請牛煦庭召委質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":74,"meet_id":"委員會-11-3-15-27","speakers":["張宏陸","王定宇","王義川","王美惠","蘇巧慧","張智倫","麥玉珍","黃建賓","黃捷","李柏毅","許宇甄","牛煦庭","徐欣瑩","洪孟楷","張啓楷","黃珊珊","吳琪銘","高金素梅","丁學忠","林楚茵","楊瓊瓔","徐富癸"],"page_start":1,"meetingDate":["2025-06-25"],"gazette_id":"1146401","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1146401_00002"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期內政委員會第27次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、審查委員王定宇等18人擬具「詐欺犯罪危害防制條例第五十四條條文修正草案」案；二、審\n查委員廖先翔等18人擬具「詐欺犯罪危害防制條例第四十三條條文修正草案」案；三、審查委員\n張宏陸等30人擬具「詐欺犯罪危害防制條例第四十七條條文修正草案」案；四、審查委員林宜瑾\n等27人擬具「詐欺犯罪危害防制條例第四十七條條文修正草案」案；五、審查委員王義川等16人\n擬具「詐欺犯罪危害防制條例第四十七條條文修正草案」案；六、審查委員陳素月等 18 人擬具\n「詐欺犯罪危害防制條例第四十七條條文修正草案」案","agenda_id":"1146401_00001"}}}