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\"立法院預算的審議所以規定他不能動之第二預備金但是他後段是就是說如果是原來刪減的立法院有同意的話那他就可以動之第二預備金吳審議長我請教你預算法第22條第二項內容是立法院審議刪除或刪減之預算項目及金額不得動之預備金但法定經費或立法院同意者\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"立\", \"start\": 65.057, \"end\": 65.277, \"score\": 0.975}, {\"word\": \"法\", \"start\": 65.277, \"end\": 65.437, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"院\", \"start\": 65.437, \"end\": 65.838, \"score\": 0.9}, {\"word\": \"預\"}, {\"word\": \"算\", \"start\": 65.838, \"end\": 66.038, \"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 66.038, \"end\": 66.218, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"審\"}, {\"word\": \"議\"}, {\"word\": \"所\", \"start\": 66.218, \"end\": 66.418, \"score\": 0.9}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 66.418, \"end\": 67.499, \"score\": 0.943}, {\"word\": \"規\"}, {\"word\": \"定\", \"start\": 67.499, \"end\": 67.739, \"score\": 0.98}, {\"word\": \"他\", \"start\": 67.739, \"end\": 68.019, \"score\": 0.984}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 68.019, \"end\": 68.24, \"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"能\", \"start\": 68.24, \"end\": 68.98, \"score\": 0.97}, {\"word\": \"動\"}, {\"word\": \"之\", \"start\": 68.98, \"end\": 69.32, \"score\": 0.954}, {\"word\": \"第\", \"start\": 69.32, \"end\": 69.461, \"score\": 0.978}, {\"word\": \"二\", \"start\": 69.461, \"end\": 70.081, \"score\": 0.933}, {\"word\": \"預\"}, {\"word\": \"備\"}, {\"word\": \"金\", \"start\": 70.081, \"end\": 70.561, \"score\": 0.96}, {\"word\": \"但\", \"start\": 70.561, \"end\": 70.701, \"score\": 0.87}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 70.701, \"end\": 70.882, \"score\": 0.967}, {\"word\": \"他\", \"start\": 70.882, \"end\": 71.142, \"score\": 0.979}, {\"word\": \"後\", \"start\": 71.142, \"end\": 71.442, \"score\": 0.931}, {\"word\": \"段\", \"start\": 71.442, \"end\": 71.742, \"score\": 0.947}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 71.742, \"end\": 72.243, \"score\": 0.991}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 72.243, \"end\": 72.403, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 72.403, \"end\": 72.643, \"score\": 0.92}, {\"word\": \"說\"}, {\"word\": \"如\", \"start\": 72.643, \"end\": 73.043, \"score\": 0.935}, {\"word\": \"果\", \"start\": 73.043, \"end\": 73.284, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 73.284, \"end\": 73.504, \"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"原\", \"start\": 73.504, \"end\": 74.444, \"score\": 0.934}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"刪\"}, {\"word\": \"減\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 74.444, \"end\": 74.585, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"立\", \"start\": 74.585, \"end\": 74.745, \"score\": 0.968}, {\"word\": \"法\", \"start\": 74.745, \"end\": 74.905, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"院\", \"start\": 74.905, \"end\": 75.285, \"score\": 0.988}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 75.285, \"end\": 75.545, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"同\", \"start\": 75.545, \"end\": 75.846, \"score\": 0.884}, {\"word\": \"意\", \"start\": 75.846, \"end\": 75.946, \"score\": 0.86}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 75.946, \"end\": 76.506, \"score\": 0.959}, {\"word\": \"話\"}, {\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 76.506, \"end\": 76.726, \"score\": 0.994}, {\"word\": \"他\", 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\"刪\"}, {\"word\": \"減\"}, {\"word\": \"之\", \"start\": 86.054, \"end\": 86.494, \"score\": 0.929}, {\"word\": \"預\"}, {\"word\": \"算\", \"start\": 86.494, \"end\": 87.335, \"score\": 0.966}, {\"word\": \"項\"}, {\"word\": \"目\", \"start\": 87.335, \"end\": 87.875, \"score\": 0.941}, {\"word\": \"及\", \"start\": 87.875, \"end\": 88.055, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"金\", \"start\": 88.055, \"end\": 88.455, \"score\": 0.918}, {\"word\": \"額\"}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 88.455, \"end\": 88.616, \"score\": 0.975}, {\"word\": \"得\", \"start\": 88.616, \"end\": 89.116, \"score\": 0.919}, {\"word\": \"動\"}, {\"word\": \"之\", \"start\": 89.116, \"end\": 89.856, \"score\": 0.892}, {\"word\": \"預\"}, {\"word\": \"備\"}, {\"word\": \"金\", \"start\": 89.856, \"end\": 90.597, \"score\": 0.968}, {\"word\": \"但\", \"start\": 90.597, \"end\": 90.917, \"score\": 0.936}, {\"word\": \"法\", \"start\": 90.917, \"end\": 91.157, \"score\": 0.928}, {\"word\": \"定\", \"start\": 91.157, \"end\": 91.978, \"score\": 0.931}, {\"word\": \"經\"}, {\"word\": \"費\"}, {\"word\": \"或\", \"start\": 91.978, \"end\": 92.519, \"score\": 0.996}, {\"word\": \"立\", \"start\": 92.519, \"end\": 92.699, \"score\": 0.901}, {\"word\": \"法\", \"start\": 92.699, \"end\": 92.879, \"score\": 0.893}, {\"word\": \"院\", \"start\": 92.879, \"end\": 93.299, \"score\": 0.993}, {\"word\": \"同\", \"start\": 93.299, \"end\": 93.519, \"score\": 0.959}, {\"word\": \"意\", \"start\": 93.519, \"end\": 93.679, \"score\": 0.953}, {\"word\": \"者\", \"start\": 93.679, \"end\": 93.699, \"score\": 0.982}]}, {\"start\": 94.42, \"end\": 105.992, \"text\": \"不在此限那我請問戶主記長今天這個審查案的經費到底是不是法定的經費是不是就是說他是\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 94.42, \"end\": 94.56, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 94.56, \"end\": 94.8, \"score\": 0.995}, {\"word\": \"此\", \"start\": 94.8, \"end\": 95.001, \"score\": 0.917}, {\"word\": \"限\", \"start\": 95.001, \"end\": 96.202, \"score\": 0.98}, {\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 96.202, \"end\": 96.342, \"score\": 0.994}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 96.342, \"end\": 97.163, \"score\": 0.904}, {\"word\": \"請\"}, {\"word\": \"問\"}, {\"word\": \"戶\"}, {\"word\": \"主\", \"start\": 97.163, \"end\": 97.684, \"score\": 0.924}, {\"word\": \"記\"}, {\"word\": \"長\"}, {\"word\": \"今\", \"start\": 97.684, \"end\": 97.944, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"天\", \"start\": 97.944, \"end\": 98.625, \"score\": 0.911}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"審\"}, {\"word\": \"查\", \"start\": 98.625, \"end\": 98.805, \"score\": 0.994}, {\"word\": \"案\", \"start\": 98.805, \"end\": 98.965, \"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 98.965, \"end\": 100.086, \"score\": 0.964}, {\"word\": \"經\"}, {\"word\": \"費\"}, {\"word\": \"到\", \"start\": 100.086, \"end\": 100.306, \"score\": 0.987}, {\"word\": \"底\", \"start\": 100.306, \"end\": 100.567, \"score\": 0.992}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 100.567, \"end\": 100.667, \"score\": 0.921}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 100.667, \"end\": 100.767, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 100.767, \"end\": 100.947, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"法\", \"start\": 100.947, \"end\": 101.187, \"score\": 0.917}, {\"word\": \"定\", \"start\": 101.187, \"end\": 101.407, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 101.407, \"end\": 102.368, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"經\"}, {\"word\": \"費\"}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 102.368, \"end\": 102.569, \"score\": 0.9}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 102.569, \"end\": 104.411, \"score\": 0.967}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 104.411, \"end\": 105.332, \"score\": 0.986}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 105.332, \"end\": 105.552, \"score\": 0.909}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 105.552, \"end\": 105.752, \"score\": 0.903}, {\"word\": \"說\"}, {\"word\": \"他\", \"start\": 105.752, \"end\": 105.972, \"score\": 0.988}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 105.972, \"end\": 105.992, \"score\": 0.011}]}, {\"start\": 107.014, \"end\": 128.761, \"text\": \"法定經費或經立法院同意的所以他是屬於或後面的立法院同意如果是法定經費換為基於維持法定機關正常運作以及執行法定職務之經費如果停止執行會造成影響整個機關的存續\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"法\", \"start\": 107.014, \"end\": 107.594, \"score\": 0.932}, {\"word\": \"定\", \"start\": 107.594, \"end\": 110.355, \"score\": 0.944}, {\"word\": \"經\"}, {\"word\": \"費\"}, {\"word\": \"或\", \"start\": 110.355, \"end\": 110.815, \"score\": 0.955}, {\"word\": \"經\"}, {\"word\": \"立\", \"start\": 110.815, \"end\": 110.955, \"score\": 0.876}, {\"word\": \"法\", \"start\": 110.955, \"end\": 111.115, \"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"院\", \"start\": 111.115, \"end\": 111.355, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"同\", \"start\": 111.355, \"end\": 111.636, \"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"意\", \"start\": 111.636, \"end\": 111.816, \"score\": 0.991}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 111.816, \"end\": 112.076, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"所\", \"start\": 112.076, \"end\": 112.176, \"score\": 0.803}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 112.176, \"end\": 112.236, \"score\": 0.666}, {\"word\": \"他\", \"start\": 112.236, \"end\": 112.376, \"score\": 0.988}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 112.376, \"end\": 112.616, \"score\": 0.915}, {\"word\": \"屬\"}, {\"word\": \"於\", \"start\": 112.616, \"end\": 112.976, \"score\": 0.914}, {\"word\": \"或\", \"start\": 112.976, \"end\": 113.576, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"後\", \"start\": 113.576, \"end\": 113.796, \"score\": 0.909}, {\"word\": \"面\", \"start\": 113.796, \"end\": 113.956, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 113.956, \"end\": 114.136, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"立\", \"start\": 114.136, \"end\": 114.316, \"score\": 0.991}, {\"word\": \"法\", \"start\": 114.316, \"end\": 114.477, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"院\", \"start\": 114.477, \"end\": 114.717, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"同\", \"start\": 114.717, \"end\": 114.997, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"意\", \"start\": 114.997, \"end\": 115.637, \"score\": 0.968}, {\"word\": \"如\", \"start\": 115.637, \"end\": 115.837, \"score\": 0.9}, {\"word\": \"果\", 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\"end\": 121.939, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 121.939, \"end\": 122.119, \"score\": 0.994}, {\"word\": \"及\", \"start\": 122.119, \"end\": 122.699, \"score\": 0.958}, {\"word\": \"執\"}, {\"word\": \"行\", \"start\": 122.699, \"end\": 123.299, \"score\": 0.995}, {\"word\": \"法\", \"start\": 123.299, \"end\": 123.56, \"score\": 0.924}, {\"word\": \"定\", \"start\": 123.56, \"end\": 124.18, \"score\": 0.935}, {\"word\": \"職\"}, {\"word\": \"務\"}, {\"word\": \"之\", \"start\": 124.18, \"end\": 125.12, \"score\": 0.946}, {\"word\": \"經\"}, {\"word\": \"費\"}, {\"word\": \"如\", \"start\": 125.12, \"end\": 125.34, \"score\": 0.934}, {\"word\": \"果\", \"start\": 125.34, \"end\": 125.56, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"停\", \"start\": 125.56, \"end\": 125.8, \"score\": 0.994}, {\"word\": \"止\", \"start\": 125.8, \"end\": 126.28, \"score\": 0.938}, {\"word\": \"執\"}, {\"word\": \"行\", \"start\": 126.28, \"end\": 127.241, \"score\": 0.976}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"造\", \"start\": 127.241, \"end\": 127.461, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"成\", \"start\": 127.461, \"end\": 127.741, \"score\": 0.987}, {\"word\": \"影\", \"start\": 127.741, \"end\": 128.041, \"score\": 0.932}, {\"word\": \"響\"}, {\"word\": \"整\", \"start\": 128.041, \"end\": 128.281, \"score\": 0.917}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"機\"}, {\"word\": \"關\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 128.281, \"end\": 128.741, \"score\": 0.956}, {\"word\": \"存\", \"start\": 128.741, \"end\": 128.761, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"續\"}]}, {\"start\": 131.226, \"end\": 137.631, \"text\": \"那麼應該可以動資預備金不需要審查反之啊如果不是法定經費的範圍那請問因為目前齁\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 131.226, \"end\": 132.007, \"score\": 0.923}, {\"word\": \"麼\"}, {\"word\": \"應\"}, {\"word\": \"該\"}, {\"word\": \"可\", \"start\": 132.007, \"end\": 132.147, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 132.147, \"end\": 132.987, \"score\": 0.905}, {\"word\": \"動\"}, {\"word\": \"資\"}, {\"word\": \"預\"}, {\"word\": \"備\"}, {\"word\": \"金\", \"start\": 132.987, \"end\": 133.448, \"score\": 0.957}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 133.448, \"end\": 133.588, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"需\", \"start\": 133.588, \"end\": 133.728, \"score\": 0.94}, {\"word\": \"要\", \"start\": 133.728, \"end\": 134.168, \"score\": 0.954}, {\"word\": \"審\"}, {\"word\": \"查\", \"start\": 134.168, \"end\": 134.729, \"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"反\", \"start\": 134.729, \"end\": 135.069, \"score\": 0.941}, {\"word\": \"之\", \"start\": 135.069, \"end\": 135.289, \"score\": 0.909}, {\"word\": \"啊\", \"start\": 135.289, \"end\": 135.95, \"score\": 0.977}, {\"word\": \"如\", \"start\": 135.95, \"end\": 136.21, \"score\": 0.978}, {\"word\": \"果\", \"start\": 136.21, \"end\": 136.39, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 136.39, \"end\": 136.53, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 136.53, \"end\": 136.71, \"score\": 0.994}, {\"word\": \"法\", \"start\": 136.71, \"end\": 136.93, \"score\": 0.909}, {\"word\": \"定\", \"start\": 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\"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"接\", \"start\": 413.806, \"end\": 413.927, \"score\": 0.982}, {\"word\": \"着\", \"start\": 413.927, \"end\": 414.107, \"score\": 0.882}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 414.107, \"end\": 414.267, \"score\": 0.994}, {\"word\": \"们\", \"start\": 414.267, \"end\": 414.408, \"score\": 0.974}, {\"word\": \"请\", \"start\": 414.408, \"end\": 414.789, \"score\": 0.994}, {\"word\": \"吴\", \"start\": 414.789, \"end\": 415.13, \"score\": 0.906}, {\"word\": \"秉\"}, {\"word\": \"瑞\", \"start\": 415.13, \"end\": 415.31, \"score\": 0.875}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 415.31, \"end\": 415.47, \"score\": 0.856}, {\"word\": \"员\", \"start\": 415.47, \"end\": 415.811, \"score\": 0.94}, {\"word\": \"质\", \"start\": 415.811, \"end\": 416.012, \"score\": 0.899}, {\"word\": \"询\", \"start\": 416.012, \"end\": 416.032, \"score\": 0.937}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:03,466 --> 00:00:09,745\n謝謝主席是不是請那個副主席長陳副主席長好陳副主席長\n\n2\n00:00:16,365 --> 00:00:40,325\n委員好副主席因為今天這個監察院辦理研討會的經費不敷審查的案子行政院含的說明內容為什麼是依據預算法第22條第二項規定來辦理為什麼不是依據預算法第70條的規定來辦理那我請副主席你做說明\n\n3\n00:00:40,985 --> 00:01:04,077\n是為了垂詢的事項我在這裡做個報告就是說因為監察院今天所提的它的源頭是因為在立法院預算審議的時候是被刪減的所以我們預算法的規定刪減以後就可以動用預備金是不是那就是說我們預算法的規定它有分前段跟後段前段就基於尊重\n\n4\n00:01:05,057 --> 00:01:33,699\n立法院預算的審議所以規定他不能動之第二預備金但是他後段是就是說如果是原來刪減的立法院有同意的話那他就可以動之第二預備金吳審議長我請教你預算法第22條第二項內容是立法院審議刪除或刪減之預算項目及金額不得動之預備金但法定經費或立法院同意者\n\n5\n00:01:34,420 --> 00:01:45,992\n不在此限那我請問戶主記長今天這個審查案的經費到底是不是法定的經費是不是就是說他是\n\n6\n00:01:47,014 --> 00:02:08,761\n法定經費或經立法院同意的所以他是屬於或後面的立法院同意如果是法定經費換為基於維持法定機關正常運作以及執行法定職務之經費如果停止執行會造成影響整個機關的存續\n\n7\n00:02:11,226 --> 00:02:17,631\n那麼應該可以動資預備金不需要審查反之啊如果不是法定經費的範圍那請問因為目前齁\n\n8\n00:02:21,994 --> 00:02:50,701\n整個這個憲法法庭啊已經受理監察院所提的114年中央政府總預算案總關於刪減監察院稅出預算進行違憲的審查那我請問副主席長你認為立法院適合對憲法法庭違憲審查中的案件進行實質的審查嗎現在在憲法法庭喔\n\n9\n00:02:52,697 --> 00:02:56,421\n本案在立法院進行審查經過三讀決議\n\n10\n00:03:12,600 --> 00:03:27,815\n如果又是維持原決議也就是不通過動資預備金那麼行政院監察院到底要怎麼做難道要再呼籲要提釋憲法法庭的審查嗎你告訴我\n\n11\n00:03:30,146 --> 00:03:51,816\n我們現在就是依預算法的這個規定來請求原來三檢的大院看能不能同意但是現在在憲法法庭啊還沒有到最後的決定啊對不對但是如果一切都要等於是法庭如果憲法法庭違憲審查結論和立法院動用預備金審查不同的結果的時候那應該要聽誰的對不對\n\n12\n00:03:55,257 --> 00:04:12,623\n這樣你了解吧憲法法庭到最後裁定的結果跟我們現在要是通過的背道而馳那到底要聽誰的跟委員報告因為現在我們已經在執行當中了如果一切都需要等到憲法法庭可能很多的對但是現在還在那裡啊那個護審計長\n\n13\n00:04:14,468 --> 00:04:32,120\n副主席長預算法第22條第二項和第三項增列行之有年但是條約裡面認識用法應該要有所依據而不是只照字面意義就認為有所本114年總預算在3月21號總統已經公布實行\n\n14\n00:04:36,663 --> 00:04:59,355\n在憲法法庭違憲審查結果還沒有出來前目前是屬於法定預算我請問副主席長今天的審查案要動之第二一倍金主計總數是依據哪種實質的條件認為符合第二項符合第二一倍金的必要動之你告訴我\n\n15\n00:05:00,115 --> 00:05:26,457\n我們就是因為當時認為三檢以後自然來行那因為二十二條就賦予說如果三檢的立法院同意可以動資第二預備金所以就依這個法所規範的程序來提出申請其次主計那個副主計長請問你動資第二預備金是不是需要符合華麗明確性的原則才能讓預備金動資釋出有名是不是\n\n16\n00:05:27,831 --> 00:05:51,833\n我覺得這個條文主要還是在於說立法院刪減了那如果因為情勢變跟立法院同意他動之所以他概念上就是原來刪減的這個大院他是如果同意他還是可以動之還是只要機關需要宋教立法院同意就可以是這樣嗎沒有要經立法院同意\n\n17\n00:05:52,677 --> 00:06:03,407\n那再其次預算法第70條對第二預備金動資就已經明文規定我請問副主席講行政院以預算法第22條第二項為依據難道預算法第70條形容據文嗎\n\n18\n00:06:08,432 --> 00:06:24,410\n70條喔可以護士不看嗎不是70條是行政院同意動之送立法院備查那22條大院監督的強度比較強要經立法院同意那個今天喔我是認為啦主計長不敢來喔\n\n19\n00:06:25,211 --> 00:06:47,683\n要你出來這個其實我們就打個問號啦你照理講陳淑芝主計長應該要來面對不是不是對不對不是不敢來是剛好有另外沒有那回事啦基本上我們就是依法來提出申請主計為主對不對我時間到了我不就不耽擱啦我認為你要審慎啦好請委員支持謝謝是謝謝德湖委員\n\n20\n00:06:53,806 --> 00:06:56,032\n接着我们请吴秉瑞委员质询\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n3466\t9745\t謝謝主席是不是請那個副主席長陳副主席長好 陳副主席長\n16365\t40325\t委員好副主席因為今天這個監察院辦理研討會的經費不敷審查的案子行政院含的說明內容為什麼是依據預算法第22條第二項規定來辦理為什麼不是依據預算法第70條的規定來辦理那我請副主席你做說明\n40985\t64077\t是 為了垂詢的事項我在這裡做個報告就是說因為監察院今天所提的它的源頭是因為在立法院預算審議的時候是被刪減的所以我們預算法的規定刪減以後就可以動用預備金是不是那就是說我們預算法的規定它有分前段跟後段前段就基於尊重\n65057\t93699\t立法院預算的審議所以規定他不能動之第二預備金但是他後段是就是說如果是原來刪減的立法院有同意的話那他就可以動之第二預備金吳審議長我請教你預算法第22條第二項內容是立法院審議刪除或刪減之預算項目及金額不得動之預備金但法定經費或立法院同意者\n94420\t105992\t不在此限那我請問戶主記長今天這個審查案的經費到底是不是法定的經費是不是就是說他是\n107014\t128761\t法定經費或經立法院同意的所以他是屬於或後面的立法院同意如果是法定經費換為基於維持法定機關正常運作以及執行法定職務之經費如果停止執行會造成影響整個機關的存續\n131226\t137631\t那麼應該可以動資預備金不需要審查反之啊如果不是法定經費的範圍那請問因為目前齁\n141994\t170701\t整個這個憲法法庭啊已經受理監察院所提的114年中央政府總預算案總關於刪減監察院稅出預算進行違憲的審查那我請問副主席長你認為立法院適合對憲法法庭違憲審查中的案件進行實質的審查嗎現在在憲法法庭喔\n172697\t176421\t本案在立法院進行審查 經過三讀決議\n192600\t207815\t如果又是維持原決議也就是不通過動資預備金那麼行政院監察院到底要怎麼做難道要再呼籲要提釋憲法法庭的審查嗎你告訴我\n210146\t231816\t我們現在就是依預算法的這個規定來請求原來三檢的大院看能不能同意但是現在在憲法法庭啊還沒有到最後的決定啊對不對但是如果一切都要等於是法庭如果憲法法庭違憲審查結論和立法院動用預備金審查不同的結果的時候那應該要聽誰的對不對\n235257\t252623\t這樣你了解吧憲法法庭到最後裁定的結果跟我們現在要是通過的背道而馳那到底要聽誰的跟委員報告因為現在我們已經在執行當中了如果一切都需要等到憲法法庭可能很多的對 但是現在還在那裡啊那個護審計長\n254468\t272120\t副主席長 預算法第22條第二項和第三項增列行之有年但是條約裡面認識用法應該要有所依據而不是只照字面意義就認為有所本114年總預算在3月21號總統已經公布實行\n276663\t299355\t在憲法法庭違憲審查結果還沒有出來前目前是屬於法定預算我請問副主席長今天的審查案要動之第二一倍金主計總數是依據哪種實質的條件認為符合第二項符合第二一倍金的必要動之你告訴我\n300115\t326457\t我們就是因為當時認為三檢以後自然來行那因為二十二條就賦予說如果三檢的立法院同意可以動資第二預備金所以就依這個法所規範的程序來提出申請其次主計那個副主計長請問你動資第二預備金是不是需要符合華麗明確性的原則才能讓預備金動資釋出有名是不是\n327831\t351833\t我覺得這個條文主要還是在於說立法院刪減了那如果因為情勢變跟立法院同意他動之所以他概念上就是原來刪減的這個大院他是如果同意他還是可以動之還是只要機關需要宋教立法院同意就可以是這樣嗎沒有要經立法院同意\n352677\t363407\t那再其次預算法第70條對第二預備金動資就已經明文規定我請問副主席講行政院以預算法第22條第二項為依據難道預算法第70條形容據文嗎\n368432\t384410\t70條喔 可以護士不看嗎不是 70條是行政院同意動之送立法院備查那22條大院監督的強度比較強要經立法院同意那個今天喔 我是認為啦 主計長不敢來喔\n385211\t407683\t要你出來這個其實我們就打個問號啦你照理講陳淑芝主計長應該要來面對不是不是對不對不是不敢來是剛好有另外沒有那回事啦基本上我們就是依法來提出申請主計為主對不對我時間到了我不就不耽擱啦我認為你要審慎啦好請委員支持謝謝是謝謝德湖委員\n413806\t416032\t接着我们请吴秉瑞委员质询\n","txt":"謝謝主席是不是請那個副主席長陳副主席長好 陳副主席長\n委員好副主席因為今天這個監察院辦理研討會的經費不敷審查的案子行政院含的說明內容為什麼是依據預算法第22條第二項規定來辦理為什麼不是依據預算法第70條的規定來辦理那我請副主席你做說明\n是 為了垂詢的事項我在這裡做個報告就是說因為監察院今天所提的它的源頭是因為在立法院預算審議的時候是被刪減的所以我們預算法的規定刪減以後就可以動用預備金是不是那就是說我們預算法的規定它有分前段跟後段前段就基於尊重\n立法院預算的審議所以規定他不能動之第二預備金但是他後段是就是說如果是原來刪減的立法院有同意的話那他就可以動之第二預備金吳審議長我請教你預算法第22條第二項內容是立法院審議刪除或刪減之預算項目及金額不得動之預備金但法定經費或立法院同意者\n不在此限那我請問戶主記長今天這個審查案的經費到底是不是法定的經費是不是就是說他是\n法定經費或經立法院同意的所以他是屬於或後面的立法院同意如果是法定經費換為基於維持法定機關正常運作以及執行法定職務之經費如果停止執行會造成影響整個機關的存續\n那麼應該可以動資預備金不需要審查反之啊如果不是法定經費的範圍那請問因為目前齁\n整個這個憲法法庭啊已經受理監察院所提的114年中央政府總預算案總關於刪減監察院稅出預算進行違憲的審查那我請問副主席長你認為立法院適合對憲法法庭違憲審查中的案件進行實質的審查嗎現在在憲法法庭喔\n本案在立法院進行審查 經過三讀決議\n如果又是維持原決議也就是不通過動資預備金那麼行政院監察院到底要怎麼做難道要再呼籲要提釋憲法法庭的審查嗎你告訴我\n我們現在就是依預算法的這個規定來請求原來三檢的大院看能不能同意但是現在在憲法法庭啊還沒有到最後的決定啊對不對但是如果一切都要等於是法庭如果憲法法庭違憲審查結論和立法院動用預備金審查不同的結果的時候那應該要聽誰的對不對\n這樣你了解吧憲法法庭到最後裁定的結果跟我們現在要是通過的背道而馳那到底要聽誰的跟委員報告因為現在我們已經在執行當中了如果一切都需要等到憲法法庭可能很多的對 但是現在還在那裡啊那個護審計長\n副主席長 預算法第22條第二項和第三項增列行之有年但是條約裡面認識用法應該要有所依據而不是只照字面意義就認為有所本114年總預算在3月21號總統已經公布實行\n在憲法法庭違憲審查結果還沒有出來前目前是屬於法定預算我請問副主席長今天的審查案要動之第二一倍金主計總數是依據哪種實質的條件認為符合第二項符合第二一倍金的必要動之你告訴我\n我們就是因為當時認為三檢以後自然來行那因為二十二條就賦予說如果三檢的立法院同意可以動資第二預備金所以就依這個法所規範的程序來提出申請其次主計那個副主計長請問你動資第二預備金是不是需要符合華麗明確性的原則才能讓預備金動資釋出有名是不是\n我覺得這個條文主要還是在於說立法院刪減了那如果因為情勢變跟立法院同意他動之所以他概念上就是原來刪減的這個大院他是如果同意他還是可以動之還是只要機關需要宋教立法院同意就可以是這樣嗎沒有要經立法院同意\n那再其次預算法第70條對第二預備金動資就已經明文規定我請問副主席講行政院以預算法第22條第二項為依據難道預算法第70條形容據文嗎\n70條喔 可以護士不看嗎不是 70條是行政院同意動之送立法院備查那22條大院監督的強度比較強要經立法院同意那個今天喔 我是認為啦 主計長不敢來喔\n要你出來這個其實我們就打個問號啦你照理講陳淑芝主計長應該要來面對不是不是對不對不是不敢來是剛好有另外沒有那回事啦基本上我們就是依法來提出申請主計為主對不對我時間到了我不就不耽擱啦我認為你要審慎啦好請委員支持謝謝是謝謝德湖委員\n接着我们请吴秉瑞委员质询\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:03.466 --> 00:09.745\n謝謝主席是不是請那個副主席長陳副主席長好陳副主席長\n\n00:16.365 --> 00:40.325\n委員好副主席因為今天這個監察院辦理研討會的經費不敷審查的案子行政院含的說明內容為什麼是依據預算法第22條第二項規定來辦理為什麼不是依據預算法第70條的規定來辦理那我請副主席你做說明\n\n00:40.985 --> 01:04.077\n是為了垂詢的事項我在這裡做個報告就是說因為監察院今天所提的它的源頭是因為在立法院預算審議的時候是被刪減的所以我們預算法的規定刪減以後就可以動用預備金是不是那就是說我們預算法的規定它有分前段跟後段前段就基於尊重\n\n01:05.057 --> 01:33.699\n立法院預算的審議所以規定他不能動之第二預備金但是他後段是就是說如果是原來刪減的立法院有同意的話那他就可以動之第二預備金吳審議長我請教你預算法第22條第二項內容是立法院審議刪除或刪減之預算項目及金額不得動之預備金但法定經費或立法院同意者\n\n01:34.420 --> 01:45.992\n不在此限那我請問戶主記長今天這個審查案的經費到底是不是法定的經費是不是就是說他是\n\n01:47.014 --> 02:08.761\n法定經費或經立法院同意的所以他是屬於或後面的立法院同意如果是法定經費換為基於維持法定機關正常運作以及執行法定職務之經費如果停止執行會造成影響整個機關的存續\n\n02:11.226 --> 02:17.631\n那麼應該可以動資預備金不需要審查反之啊如果不是法定經費的範圍那請問因為目前齁\n\n02:21.994 --> 02:50.701\n整個這個憲法法庭啊已經受理監察院所提的114年中央政府總預算案總關於刪減監察院稅出預算進行違憲的審查那我請問副主席長你認為立法院適合對憲法法庭違憲審查中的案件進行實質的審查嗎現在在憲法法庭喔\n\n02:52.697 --> 02:56.421\n本案在立法院進行審查經過三讀決議\n\n03:12.600 --> 03:27.815\n如果又是維持原決議也就是不通過動資預備金那麼行政院監察院到底要怎麼做難道要再呼籲要提釋憲法法庭的審查嗎你告訴我\n\n03:30.146 --> 03:51.816\n我們現在就是依預算法的這個規定來請求原來三檢的大院看能不能同意但是現在在憲法法庭啊還沒有到最後的決定啊對不對但是如果一切都要等於是法庭如果憲法法庭違憲審查結論和立法院動用預備金審查不同的結果的時候那應該要聽誰的對不對\n\n03:55.257 --> 04:12.623\n這樣你了解吧憲法法庭到最後裁定的結果跟我們現在要是通過的背道而馳那到底要聽誰的跟委員報告因為現在我們已經在執行當中了如果一切都需要等到憲法法庭可能很多的對但是現在還在那裡啊那個護審計長\n\n04:14.468 --> 04:32.120\n副主席長預算法第22條第二項和第三項增列行之有年但是條約裡面認識用法應該要有所依據而不是只照字面意義就認為有所本114年總預算在3月21號總統已經公布實行\n\n04:36.663 --> 04:59.355\n在憲法法庭違憲審查結果還沒有出來前目前是屬於法定預算我請問副主席長今天的審查案要動之第二一倍金主計總數是依據哪種實質的條件認為符合第二項符合第二一倍金的必要動之你告訴我\n\n05:00.115 --> 05:26.457\n我們就是因為當時認為三檢以後自然來行那因為二十二條就賦予說如果三檢的立法院同意可以動資第二預備金所以就依這個法所規範的程序來提出申請其次主計那個副主計長請問你動資第二預備金是不是需要符合華麗明確性的原則才能讓預備金動資釋出有名是不是\n\n05:27.831 --> 05:51.833\n我覺得這個條文主要還是在於說立法院刪減了那如果因為情勢變跟立法院同意他動之所以他概念上就是原來刪減的這個大院他是如果同意他還是可以動之還是只要機關需要宋教立法院同意就可以是這樣嗎沒有要經立法院同意\n\n05:52.677 --> 06:03.407\n那再其次預算法第70條對第二預備金動資就已經明文規定我請問副主席講行政院以預算法第22條第二項為依據難道預算法第70條形容據文嗎\n\n06:08.432 --> 06:24.410\n70條喔可以護士不看嗎不是70條是行政院同意動之送立法院備查那22條大院監督的強度比較強要經立法院同意那個今天喔我是認為啦主計長不敢來喔\n\n06:25.211 --> 06:47.683\n要你出來這個其實我們就打個問號啦你照理講陳淑芝主計長應該要來面對不是不是對不對不是不敢來是剛好有另外沒有那回事啦基本上我們就是依法來提出申請主計為主對不對我時間到了我不就不耽擱啦我認為你要審慎啦好請委員支持謝謝是謝謝德湖委員\n\n06:53.806 --> 06:56.032\n接着我们请吴秉瑞委员质询\n\n","segments":[{"start":3.466,"end":9.745,"text":"謝謝主席是不是請那個副主席長陳副主席長好 陳副主席長"},{"start":16.365,"end":40.325,"text":"委員好副主席因為今天這個監察院辦理研討會的經費不敷審查的案子行政院含的說明內容為什麼是依據預算法第22條第二項規定來辦理為什麼不是依據預算法第70條的規定來辦理那我請副主席你做說明"},{"start":40.985,"end":64.077,"text":"是 為了垂詢的事項我在這裡做個報告就是說因為監察院今天所提的它的源頭是因為在立法院預算審議的時候是被刪減的所以我們預算法的規定刪減以後就可以動用預備金是不是那就是說我們預算法的規定它有分前段跟後段前段就基於尊重"},{"start":65.057,"end":93.699,"text":"立法院預算的審議所以規定他不能動之第二預備金但是他後段是就是說如果是原來刪減的立法院有同意的話那他就可以動之第二預備金吳審議長我請教你預算法第22條第二項內容是立法院審議刪除或刪減之預算項目及金額不得動之預備金但法定經費或立法院同意者"},{"start":94.42,"end":105.992,"text":"不在此限那我請問戶主記長今天這個審查案的經費到底是不是法定的經費是不是就是說他是"},{"start":107.014,"end":128.761,"text":"法定經費或經立法院同意的所以他是屬於或後面的立法院同意如果是法定經費換為基於維持法定機關正常運作以及執行法定職務之經費如果停止執行會造成影響整個機關的存續"},{"start":131.226,"end":137.631,"text":"那麼應該可以動資預備金不需要審查反之啊如果不是法定經費的範圍那請問因為目前齁"},{"start":141.994,"end":170.701,"text":"整個這個憲法法庭啊已經受理監察院所提的114年中央政府總預算案總關於刪減監察院稅出預算進行違憲的審查那我請問副主席長你認為立法院適合對憲法法庭違憲審查中的案件進行實質的審查嗎現在在憲法法庭喔"},{"start":172.697,"end":176.421,"text":"本案在立法院進行審查 經過三讀決議"},{"start":192.6,"end":207.815,"text":"如果又是維持原決議也就是不通過動資預備金那麼行政院監察院到底要怎麼做難道要再呼籲要提釋憲法法庭的審查嗎你告訴我"},{"start":210.146,"end":231.816,"text":"我們現在就是依預算法的這個規定來請求原來三檢的大院看能不能同意但是現在在憲法法庭啊還沒有到最後的決定啊對不對但是如果一切都要等於是法庭如果憲法法庭違憲審查結論和立法院動用預備金審查不同的結果的時候那應該要聽誰的對不對"},{"start":235.257,"end":252.623,"text":"這樣你了解吧憲法法庭到最後裁定的結果跟我們現在要是通過的背道而馳那到底要聽誰的跟委員報告因為現在我們已經在執行當中了如果一切都需要等到憲法法庭可能很多的對 但是現在還在那裡啊那個護審計長"},{"start":254.468,"end":272.12,"text":"副主席長 預算法第22條第二項和第三項增列行之有年但是條約裡面認識用法應該要有所依據而不是只照字面意義就認為有所本114年總預算在3月21號總統已經公布實行"},{"start":276.663,"end":299.355,"text":"在憲法法庭違憲審查結果還沒有出來前目前是屬於法定預算我請問副主席長今天的審查案要動之第二一倍金主計總數是依據哪種實質的條件認為符合第二項符合第二一倍金的必要動之你告訴我"},{"start":300.115,"end":326.457,"text":"我們就是因為當時認為三檢以後自然來行那因為二十二條就賦予說如果三檢的立法院同意可以動資第二預備金所以就依這個法所規範的程序來提出申請其次主計那個副主計長請問你動資第二預備金是不是需要符合華麗明確性的原則才能讓預備金動資釋出有名是不是"},{"start":327.831,"end":351.833,"text":"我覺得這個條文主要還是在於說立法院刪減了那如果因為情勢變跟立法院同意他動之所以他概念上就是原來刪減的這個大院他是如果同意他還是可以動之還是只要機關需要宋教立法院同意就可以是這樣嗎沒有要經立法院同意"},{"start":352.677,"end":363.407,"text":"那再其次預算法第70條對第二預備金動資就已經明文規定我請問副主席講行政院以預算法第22條第二項為依據難道預算法第70條形容據文嗎"},{"start":368.432,"end":384.41,"text":"70條喔 可以護士不看嗎不是 70條是行政院同意動之送立法院備查那22條大院監督的強度比較強要經立法院同意那個今天喔 我是認為啦 主計長不敢來喔"},{"start":385.211,"end":407.683,"text":"要你出來這個其實我們就打個問號啦你照理講陳淑芝主計長應該要來面對不是不是對不對不是不敢來是剛好有另外沒有那回事啦基本上我們就是依法來提出申請主計為主對不對我時間到了我不就不耽擱啦我認為你要審慎啦好請委員支持謝謝是謝謝德湖委員"},{"start":413.806,"end":416.032,"text":"接着我们请吴秉瑞委员质询"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":51,"blocks":[["林委員德福：（9時13分）謝謝主席，請陳副主計長。"],["主席：請陳副主計長。"],["陳副主計長慧娟：委員好。"],["林委員德福：副主計長，今天要審查監察院辦理研討會所需經費不敷的案子，但行政院函的說明內容為什麼是依據預算法第二十二條第二項規定來辦理，而不是依據預算法第七十條規定來辦理？我請副主計長做說明。"],["陳副主計長慧娟：是，委員垂詢的事項我在這裡做個報告。因為監察院今天所提的，其源頭是因為在立法院預算審議的時候被刪減了，所以我們依據預算法的規定，它為了……"],["林委員德福：刪減以後就可以動用預備金，是不是？"],["陳副主計長慧娟：我們預算法的規定有分前段跟後段，前段就是基於尊重立法院預算的審議，所以規定它不能動支第二預備金，但後段如果是原來刪減的，立法院有同意的話，就可以動支第二預備金。"],["林委員德福：好，副主計長，我請教你，預算法第二十二條第二項內容是「立法院審議刪除或刪減之預算項目及金額，不得動支預備金。但法定經費或經立法院同意者，不在此限。」我要請問副主計長，今天這個審查案的經費到底是不是法定經費？"],["陳副主計長慧娟：它是法定經費或經立法院同意者，所以它是屬於後面「或經立法院同意」的部分。"],["林委員德福：如果是法定經費範圍，基於維持法定機關正常運作以及執行法定職務之經費，如果停止執行會影響整個機關的存續，那麼應該可以動支預備金，不需要審查。反之，如果不是法定經費的範圍，請問，因為目前整個憲法法庭已經受理監察院所提的114年中央政府總預算案中關於刪減監察院歲出預算進行違憲的審查，請問副主計長，你認為立法院適合對憲法法庭違憲審查中的案件進行實質審查嗎？現在案件在憲法法庭喔！"],["陳副主計長慧娟：跟委員報告，因為去釋憲那個是釋憲的那個……"],["林委員德福：如果釋憲出來的最後結果不一樣呢？"],["陳副主計長慧娟：但是現在我們已經到了預算執行的階段，眼看9月就要辦理了……"],["林委員德福：但是還沒有處理啊！本案在立法院進行審查，經過三讀決議，如果又是維持原決議，也就是不通過動支預備金，那麼行政院、監察院到底要怎麼做？難道要再覆議，要提釋憲、請憲法法庭審查嗎？你告訴我。"],["陳副主計長慧娟：跟委員報告，我們現在就是依預算法的規定來請求原來刪減的，大院看能不能同意來動支……"],["林委員德福：但是現在在憲法法庭，還沒有到最後的決定啊，對不對？"],["陳副主計長慧娟：但是如果一切都要等到憲法法庭……"],["林委員德福：其次，如果憲法法庭違憲審查結論和立法院動用預備金審查的結果不同的時候，那應該要聽誰的？這樣你了解吧？憲法法庭到最後裁定的結果要是跟我們現在要通過的背道而馳，到底要聽誰的？"],["陳副主計長慧娟：跟委員報告，因為現在我們已經在執行當中了，如果一切都需要等到憲法法庭，可能很多的……"],["林委員德福：對，但是現在還在那裡啊！副主計長，預算法第二十二條第二項和第三項增列已行之有年，但是條約裡面認事用法應該要有所依據，而不是只照字面意義就認為有所本。114年總預算已經在3月21日總統公布施行，在憲法法庭違憲審查結果還沒有出來前，目前是屬於法定預算，請問副主計長，今天的審查案要動支第二預備金，主計總處是依據哪種實質的條件認為符合第二預備金的必要動支？你告訴我。"],["陳副主計長慧娟：我們當時就認為刪減以後窒礙難行，因為第二十二條賦予，如果刪減的部分經立法院同意，可以動支第二預備金，所以就依這個法所規範的程序提出申請。"],["林委員德福：其次，請問副主計長，動支第二預備金是不是需要符合法律明確性的原則，才能讓預備金動支師出有名？"],["陳副主計長慧娟：這個條文主要還是在於立法院刪減了，如果因為情事變更，立法院同意動支，所以概念上就是原來刪減的這個部分，如果大院同意，他還是可以動支。"],["林委員德福：還是只要機關需要，送交立法院同意就可以？是這樣嗎？"],["陳副主計長慧娟：沒有，要經立法院同意。"],["林委員德福：再其次，預算法第七十條對第二預備金動支已經有明文規定，請問副主計長，行政院以預算法第二十二條第二項為依據，難道預算法第七十條形同具文嗎？第七十條可以忽視不看嗎？"],["陳副主計長慧娟：不是，第七十條是規定行政院同意動支，送立法院備查；第二十二條則是大院監督的強度比較強，要經立法院同意。"],["林委員德福：我認為今天主計長不敢來，要你出來，我們其實就打個問號了。照理講，陳淑姿主計長應該要來面對，對不對？"],["陳副主計長慧娟：不是！不是不敢來，是剛好有另外……就是說……"],["林委員德福：沒有那回事！要錢卻不來！"],["陳副主計長慧娟：基本上，我們就是依法提出申請。"],["林委員德福：而且今天又是主計為主，對不對？我的時間到了，我就不耽擱。我認為你要審慎，謝謝。"],["陳副主計長慧娟：請委員支持，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝德福委員。","接著請吳秉叡委員質詢。副主計長，主計長身體不舒服，你可以代為說明。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":136,"meet_id":"聯席會議-11-3-20,36-1","speakers":["賴惠員","林德福","吳秉叡","賴士葆","郭國文","黃國昌","鍾佳濱","沈發惠","羅智強","莊瑞雄","顏寬恒","吳宗憲","翁曉玲","李坤城","陳玉珍","吳思瑤","李彥秀","陳培瑜","王世堅","黃珊珊","徐欣瑩","王鴻薇","林倩綺","林思銘","羅明才"],"page_start":75,"meetingDate":["2025-06-26"],"gazette_id":"1146401","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1146401_00003"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期財政、司法及法制委員會第1次聯席會議紀錄","content":"審查行政院函為監察院114年度辦理「2025年第37屆澳紐及太平洋地區監察使年會暨人權國際研\n討會」所需經費不敷，請同意動支114年度中央政府總預算第二預備金750萬元支應案","agenda_id":"1146401_00002"}}}