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57.654, \"end\": 76.435, \"text\": \"會亂三預算今天我不會說在這邊還有昨天開會我就跟其他委員說其實國家的顏面我們一定要支持到底所以我覺得這個在扯那個預算亂三這個實在是很沒有意思啦我覺得這是個怪力亂神另外一個就是說有關剛剛有其他委員有提到\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"亂\"}, {\"word\": \"三\", \"start\": 57.654, \"end\": 57.954, \"score\": 0.896}, {\"word\": \"預\"}, {\"word\": \"算\", \"start\": 57.954, \"end\": 58.254, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"今\", \"start\": 58.254, \"end\": 58.394, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"天\", \"start\": 58.394, \"end\": 58.795, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 58.795, \"end\": 58.955, \"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 58.955, \"end\": 59.355, \"score\": 0.908}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"說\"}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 59.355, \"end\": 59.836, \"score\": 0.879}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"邊\"}, {\"word\": \"還\"}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 59.836, \"end\": 59.996, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"昨\", \"start\": 59.996, \"end\": 60.136, \"score\": 0.918}, {\"word\": \"天\", \"start\": 60.136, \"end\": 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\"得\", \"start\": 72.03, \"end\": 72.17, \"score\": 0.939}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 72.17, \"end\": 72.471, \"score\": 0.867}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"怪\", \"start\": 72.471, \"end\": 72.631, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"力\", \"start\": 72.631, \"end\": 73.031, \"score\": 0.9}, {\"word\": \"亂\"}, {\"word\": \"神\", \"start\": 73.031, \"end\": 73.372, \"score\": 0.907}, {\"word\": \"另\", \"start\": 73.372, \"end\": 73.492, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"外\", \"start\": 73.492, \"end\": 73.572, \"score\": 0.993}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 73.572, \"end\": 73.732, \"score\": 0.752}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 73.732, \"end\": 73.952, \"score\": 0.911}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 73.952, \"end\": 74.613, \"score\": 0.97}, {\"word\": \"說\"}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 74.613, \"end\": 75.514, \"score\": 0.91}, {\"word\": \"關\"}, {\"word\": \"剛\"}, {\"word\": \"剛\"}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 75.514, \"end\": 75.674, \"score\": 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\"start\": 624.584, \"end\": 624.664, \"score\": 0.75}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 624.664, \"end\": 624.704, \"score\": 0.5}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 624.704, \"end\": 624.784, \"score\": 0.75}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 624.784, \"end\": 624.804, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 635.291, \"end\": 635.394, \"score\": 0.892}, {\"word\": \",\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"主\", \"start\": 635.394, \"end\": 635.435, \"score\": 0.499}, {\"word\": \"持\", \"start\": 635.435, \"end\": 635.578, \"score\": 0.857}, {\"word\": \"人\", \"start\": 635.578, \"end\": 635.599, \"score\": 0.0}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:01,789 --> 00:00:30,507\n委員好副秘書長早我想說我先最前面的我先那個說明一下就是有關這筆750萬元的部分那我個人是支持那我昨天在跟國民黨其他委員開會的時候我也是說服他們說其實因為這個在我們自己國家內召開這種世界性的組織的研討會其實這個支持本來就是應該的所以我先說明一下\n\n2\n00:00:31,607 --> 00:00:52,212\n這個這是我的結論但是中間有一些問題我還是要跟你們理清楚那當然啦就是因為剛剛也有很多人有提到幾個問題但跟今天沒有絕對的關聯性我認為說他有一點怪力亂神所以我這邊先澄清一下就是說其實已經到今天了我們來討論750萬的這個預算其實不要說在趁這個機會又說什麼爛三預算什麼其實如果\n\n3\n00:00:57,654 --> 00:01:16,435\n會亂三預算今天我不會說在這邊還有昨天開會我就跟其他委員說其實國家的顏面我們一定要支持到底所以我覺得這個在扯那個預算亂三這個實在是很沒有意思啦我覺得這是個怪力亂神另外一個就是說有關剛剛有其他委員有提到\n\n4\n00:01:19,370 --> 00:01:44,845\n廢監察院這個事情其實國民黨的態度是比較開放我們覺得是一個改革所以我們其實公開說明是兩個方向就監察權的改革是兩個方向當然第一個就是這次民眾黨所提的那個案子就是說廢除監察院把權力移到立法院這是一個廢院移權第二個我們希望的就是讓監察委員回歸到早期五權憲法的規定變成民意機關變成民選\n\n5\n00:01:46,886 --> 00:02:01,247\n不管直接民選階級民選先不去論這個把它變回去民意機關嘛所以這兩條路都是國民黨覺得可以討論的並不存在剛剛講的那些很奇怪因為今天有人提案了這個之後\n\n6\n00:02:02,088 --> 00:02:23,101\n那民進黨不同意沒有關係或有意見也沒有關係啊大家可以拿出來討論但是回過頭去扯說2015年或2020年你沒有反對又怎麼樣我覺得那個沒有意思啊因為你去講歷史沒有用啊那你為什麼不講我們現在從善如流我就覺得民進黨當初說廢考今天我們舉雙手贊成\n\n7\n00:02:26,023 --> 00:02:46,146\n那你為什麼不說我們這個叫從善如流對啊那為什麼要回過頭去說你當初就不要你當初就反對啊為什麼你今天可以要所以因為你當年反對那所以我現在也說你說要廢考今天這個事我不同意這個邏輯上就邏輯性死亡了\n\n8\n00:02:47,012 --> 00:03:13,550\n對啊你當年你始終堅持廢除考試院監察院那當年國民黨以前的國民黨我不認識他們不同意但是今天新一代的國民黨認為說可以討論可以去精簡我們優化監察權的行使而有一些改變這根本沒有問題啊那現在反而是有人跳出來拿歷史故事出來說當年你反對廢考監為什麼你現在便可以我覺得那個邏輯都錯誤啦\n\n9\n00:03:15,371 --> 00:03:43,513\n為什麼我們對於政策的想法不能改變反而是現在民進黨改變了他就變成說早年說要廢考今天現在這麼好用的監察權捨不得放掉我覺得這個才是核心的問題所以請聽清楚我們認為從善如流就是要優化監察權的行使兩個面向一個廢院一權第二個當然我們監察院繼續留著監察委員繼續留著但是改回早年無權憲法的想法讓他變成民意機關\n\n10\n00:03:44,794 --> 00:04:02,366\n這是國民黨想法請大家不要再誤導國人了這是不應該的再回到今天的議題我想請教一下今天750萬我已經說了我支持因為我認為這國家的顏面我絕對舉雙手贊成一定要支持我們國家的尊嚴但是750萬你們的報告只有55個字耶這個不對吧而且細項都沒有你就一個\n\n11\n00:04:09,622 --> 00:04:25,179\n你就現在我們PowerPoint上面看到的就這幾個字而已啊那詳細的細節我們都沒有看到這是我第一個要跟你們抗議的事情不能說因為今天我們想要支持你你就不當一回事對不對那你細項你怎麼沒有給我們\n\n12\n00:04:26,817 --> 00:04:28,758\n跟委員說明那因為口頭報告真的可能比較簡略那有關於750萬的細項我在這邊先再補充說明有關於第一項是有關於國外的講者還有貴賓他們的機票費大概是208萬\n\n13\n00:04:43,064 --> 00:04:45,788\n然後相關講者貴賓的住宿是95萬然後另外講者的交通費是72,000然後另外因為要有場地要有國際會議這樣的場地包括廠租設備佈置\n\n14\n00:04:58,588 --> 00:05:11,105\n還有餐飲等等是一百八十六萬然後同步口譯還有一些文化參訪等等是五十八萬兩千然後另外是文宣的資料的編譯費包括手冊包括譯程還有包括翻譯\n\n15\n00:05:14,850 --> 00:05:43,118\n負面醫院是花時間所以這給我一份報告我們不能接受750萬你就55個字就沒了好不好我必須知道錢怎麼用那第二個我想請教一下為什麼我看那個IOI的官網我們的年度報告在2022年之後就沒有了這是怎麼回事如果我們這麼重視這個會議的話那為什麼2022年之後就沒有我們的報告我看香港也都還有請教怎麼回事\n\n16\n00:05:44,253 --> 00:06:12,880\n跟委員說明基本上我們都有送這AnnualReport我們都有送那可是可能官網還沒有放上去這個你沒有確定嗎我們監察院有送是他們官網沒放上我們有送我們絕對有送因為2022年2023年後面都沒看到耶但是我看到香港2022、2023都有耶對不對那這個部分你要給我們一個答案啊那還有一個問題喔就是\n\n17\n00:06:14,008 --> 00:06:35,676\n我覺得啦就是因為我看到你們的報告還有你剛剛其他委員的問題我們難得用中華民國這個名義去加入一個國際的組織對不對中華民國監察院好那可是我看了一下我上了他們的官網去看我找不到我只找到他們只有在這個那個奧紐區還有太平洋區裡面\n\n18\n00:06:36,936 --> 00:06:51,065\n只有一個監察院像譬如說香港他還會特別註明出來其他國家也會特別註明但是我們不見了你自己看這是他們官網上面的那你們有沒有去抗議過我覺得我現在是在替政府講話\n\n19\n00:06:53,367 --> 00:07:21,505\n謝謝委員這個如果這個再繼續往下點的話就會看到是中華民國監察院繼續點可是我們這個列表上面別的你自己看嘛我們去看一下這個列表上面其他國家或地區都有被特別標示出來唯獨我們中華民國的監察院他忘了標註那我沒有意見也許他們公網漏掉但是基於國家的尊嚴以及顏面是不是你們可以請\n\n20\n00:07:22,906 --> 00:07:49,665\n他們官網要把他簽上去不然你現在告訴我跟你們今天的報告我看完了以後貴院的報告上面寫我們難得用中華民國這個名義加入對不對那但是我看到他們的官網上面沒有嘛那沒有你跟我說點進去在某一個小地方有這就不對了因為列表才是重點啊是是是這一點我們會特別注意然後會去主張好謝謝委員麻煩這個是我們國家顏面是是是\n\n21\n00:07:51,927 --> 00:08:16,581\n所以我跟你們說貴院的人權委員會我們上個禮拜在審那個新住民的法案的時候我們請他來他不來也沒有請假就丟了一個公文過來說不可出席原因是什麼也不講我想那個人權委員會並不適用4461號他沒有理由說不來那能不能回去請\n\n22\n00:08:17,902 --> 00:08:31,616\n副秘書長轉告人權委員會不要這麼囂張今天立法院在審查法案這個跟一百萬的新住民有關你不要讓這一百萬的新住民覺得監察院就是看不起他們\n\n23\n00:08:32,901 --> 00:08:48,822\n如果今天依照憲政規定而不來我覺得我可以接受依照461不來我也可以接受但是你既然不屬於4.461的範圍內你就一句不客出席然後就不來了那你這麼看不起台灣有一百萬的新住民嗎\n\n24\n00:08:50,683 --> 00:09:15,837\n委員說明其實就我所知人權委員會是有正式的公文然後交給司法法治委員會副秘書長正式的公文你要經過召委的同意啊這可不可以麻煩你們了解一下今天沒有人同意他而且不管是各部會的首長來跟我們請假因為說明原因我們都是盡可能的都會同意\n\n25\n00:09:16,457 --> 00:09:43,673\n但是今天貴院的人權委員會他就一份公務過來我不想來不可出席然後這樣子這個完全不符合過往立法院的慣例所以可不可以請轉告不要這麼看不起別人新住民的人權也非常的重要所以不是人權委員會不用管啦好不好好這麻煩你那我也在這邊說明了拜託人權委員會的這位各位委員以及\n\n26\n00:09:44,551 --> 00:09:58,490\n主管不要看不起立法院立法院在審查的這些新住民他們不是外國人他們是中華民國的國民他們也有投票權他們也有參政權不要這樣子搞他們麻煩下一次請\n\n27\n00:09:59,571 --> 00:10:24,804\n人權委會來的時候要請他們過來沒辦法來請說明請假的理由讓召委判斷不管針對哪一黨都一樣不是一個公文來我不爽來就不來沒有那種事所以剛複密的這個答覆我沒有辦法接受不是他跟我講就算數好不好好謝謝複密好謝謝吳委員那接下來我們請翁小林委員那也麻煩這個代理秘書長剛剛那個750萬的這個項目喔信箱就發給每個這個出席委員好不好\n\n28\n00:10:35,291 --> 00:10:35,599\n好,謝謝主持人\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n1789\t30507\t委員好副秘書長早我想說我先最前面的我先那個說明一下就是有關這筆750萬元的部分那我個人是支持那我昨天在跟國民黨其他委員開會的時候我也是說服他們說其實因為這個在我們自己國家內召開這種世界性的組織的研討會其實這個支持本來就是應該的所以我先說明一下\n31607\t52212\t這個這是我的結論但是中間有一些問題我還是要跟你們理清楚那當然啦就是因為剛剛也有很多人有提到幾個問題但跟今天沒有絕對的關聯性我認為說他有一點怪力亂神所以我這邊先澄清一下就是說其實已經到今天了我們來討論750萬的這個預算其實不要說在趁這個機會又說什麼爛三預算什麼其實如果\n57654\t76435\t會亂三預算今天我不會說在這邊還有昨天開會我就跟其他委員說其實國家的顏面我們一定要支持到底所以我覺得這個在扯那個預算亂三這個實在是很沒有意思啦我覺得這是個怪力亂神另外一個就是說有關剛剛有其他委員有提到\n79370\t104845\t廢監察院這個事情其實國民黨的態度是比較開放我們覺得是一個改革所以我們其實公開說明是兩個方向就監察權的改革是兩個方向當然第一個就是這次民眾黨所提的那個案子就是說廢除監察院把權力移到立法院這是一個廢院移權第二個我們希望的就是讓監察委員回歸到早期五權憲法的規定變成民意機關變成民選\n106886\t121247\t不管直接民選 階級民選先不去論這個把它變回去民意機關嘛所以這兩條路都是國民黨覺得可以討論的並不存在剛剛講的那些很奇怪因為今天有人提案了這個之後\n122088\t143101\t那民進黨不同意沒有關係或有意見也沒有關係啊大家可以拿出來討論但是回過頭去扯說2015年或2020年你沒有反對又怎麼樣我覺得那個沒有意思啊因為你去講歷史沒有用啊那你為什麼不講我們現在從善如流我就覺得民進黨當初說廢考今天我們舉雙手贊成\n146023\t166146\t那你為什麼不說我們這個叫從善如流對啊 那為什麼要回過頭去說你當初就不要 你當初就反對啊 為什麼你今天可以要所以因為你當年反對 那所以我現在也說你說要廢考 今天這個事我不同意這個邏輯上就邏輯性死亡了\n167012\t193550\t對啊 你當年你始終堅持廢除考試院 監察院那當年國民黨 以前的國民黨我不認識他們不同意但是今天新一代的國民黨認為說可以討論 可以去精簡我們優化監察權的行使而有一些改變這根本沒有問題啊那現在反而是有人跳出來拿歷史故事出來說當年你反對廢考監為什麼你現在便可以我覺得那個邏輯都錯誤啦\n195371\t223513\t為什麼我們對於政策的想法不能改變反而是現在民進黨改變了他就變成說早年說要廢考今天現在這麼好用的監察權捨不得放掉我覺得這個才是核心的問題所以請聽清楚我們認為從善如流就是要優化監察權的行使兩個面向一個廢院一權第二個當然我們監察院繼續留著監察委員繼續留著但是改回早年無權憲法的想法讓他變成民意機關\n224794\t242366\t這是國民黨想法 請大家不要再誤導國人了這是不應該的再回到今天的議題 我想請教一下今天750萬我已經說了我支持因為我認為這國家的顏面我絕對舉雙手贊成一定要支持我們國家的尊嚴但是750萬你們的報告只有55個字耶這個不對吧 而且細項都沒有 你就一個\n249622\t265179\t你就現在我們PowerPoint上面看到的就這幾個字而已啊那詳細的細節我們都沒有看到這是我第一個要跟你們抗議的事情不能說因為今天我們想要支持你你就不當一回事對不對那你細項你怎麼沒有給我們\n266817\t268758\t跟委員說明那因為口頭報告真的可能比較簡略那有關於750萬的細項我在這邊先再補充說明有關於第一項是有關於國外的講者還有貴賓他們的機票費大概是208萬\n283064\t285788\t然後相關講者貴賓的住宿是95萬然後另外講者的交通費是72,000然後另外因為要有場地要有國際會議這樣的場地包括廠租設備佈置\n298588\t311105\t還有餐飲等等是一百八十六萬然後同步口譯還有一些文化參訪等等是五十八萬兩千然後另外是文宣的資料的編譯費包括手冊包括譯程還有包括翻譯\n314850\t343118\t負面醫院是花時間所以這給我一份報告我們不能接受750萬你就55個字就沒了好不好我必須知道錢怎麼用那第二個我想請教一下為什麼我看那個IOI的官網我們的年度報告在2022年之後就沒有了這是怎麼回事如果我們這麼重視這個會議的話那為什麼2022年之後就沒有我們的報告我看香港也都還有請教怎麼回事\n344253\t372880\t跟委員說明基本上我們都有送這Annual Report我們都有送那可是可能官網還沒有放上去這個你沒有確定嗎我們監察院有送是他們官網沒放上我們有送我們絕對有送因為2022年2023年後面都沒看到耶但是我看到香港2022、2023都有耶對不對那這個部分你要給我們一個答案啊那還有一個問題喔就是\n374008\t395676\t我覺得啦就是因為我看到你們的報告還有你剛剛其他委員的問題我們難得用中華民國這個名義去加入一個國際的組織對不對中華民國監察院好那可是我看了一下我上了他們的官網去看我找不到我只找到他們只有在這個那個奧紐區還有太平洋區裡面\n396936\t411065\t只有一個監察院像譬如說香港他還會特別註明出來其他國家也會特別註明但是我們不見了你自己看這是他們官網上面的那你們有沒有去抗議過我覺得我現在是在替政府講話\n413367\t441505\t謝謝委員這個如果這個再繼續往下點的話就會看到是中華民國監察院繼續點可是我們這個列表上面別的你自己看嘛我們去看一下這個列表上面其他國家或地區都有被特別標示出來唯獨我們中華民國的監察院他忘了標註那我沒有意見也許他們公網漏掉但是基於國家的尊嚴以及顏面是不是你們可以請\n442906\t469665\t他們官網要把他簽上去不然你現在告訴我跟你們今天的報告我看完了以後貴院的報告上面寫我們難得用中華民國這個名義加入對不對那但是我看到他們的官網上面沒有嘛那沒有你跟我說點進去在某一個小地方有這就不對了因為列表才是重點啊是是是這一點我們會特別注意然後會去主張好 謝謝委員麻煩這個是我們國家顏面是是是\n471927\t496581\t所以我跟你們說貴院的人權委員會我們上個禮拜在審那個新住民的法案的時候我們請他來他不來也沒有請假就丟了一個公文過來說不可出席原因是什麼也不講我想那個人權委員會並不適用4461號他沒有理由說不來那能不能回去請\n497902\t511616\t副秘書長 轉告人權委員會不要這麼囂張今天立法院在審查法案這個跟一百萬的新住民有關你不要讓這一百萬的新住民覺得監察院就是看不起他們\n512901\t528822\t如果今天依照憲政規定而不來我覺得我可以接受依照461不來我也可以接受但是你既然不屬於4.461的範圍內你就一句不客出席然後就不來了那你這麼看不起台灣有一百萬的新住民嗎\n530683\t555837\t委員說明其實就我所知人權委員會是有正式的公文然後交給司法法治委員會副秘書長正式的公文你要經過召委的同意啊這可不可以麻煩你們了解一下今天沒有人同意他而且不管是各部會的首長來跟我們請假因為說明原因我們都是盡可能的都會同意\n556457\t583673\t但是今天貴院的人權委員會他就一份公務過來我不想來不可出席然後這樣子這個完全不符合過往立法院的慣例所以可不可以請轉告不要這麼看不起別人新住民的人權也非常的重要所以不是人權委員會不用管啦好不好好這麻煩你那我也在這邊說明了拜託人權委員會的這位各位委員以及\n584551\t598490\t主管不要看不起立法院立法院在審查的這些新住民他們不是外國人他們是中華民國的國民他們也有投票權他們也有參政權不要這樣子搞他們麻煩下一次請\n599571\t624804\t人權委會來的時候要請他們過來沒辦法來請說明請假的理由讓召委判斷不管針對哪一黨都一樣不是一個公文來我不爽來就不來沒有那種事所以剛複密的這個答覆我沒有辦法接受不是他跟我講就算數好不好好 謝謝複密好 謝謝吳委員那接下來我們請翁小林委員那也麻煩這個代理秘書長剛剛那個750萬的這個項目喔信箱就發給每個這個出席委員好不好\n635291\t635599\t好,謝謝主持人\n","txt":"委員好副秘書長早我想說我先最前面的我先那個說明一下就是有關這筆750萬元的部分那我個人是支持那我昨天在跟國民黨其他委員開會的時候我也是說服他們說其實因為這個在我們自己國家內召開這種世界性的組織的研討會其實這個支持本來就是應該的所以我先說明一下\n這個這是我的結論但是中間有一些問題我還是要跟你們理清楚那當然啦就是因為剛剛也有很多人有提到幾個問題但跟今天沒有絕對的關聯性我認為說他有一點怪力亂神所以我這邊先澄清一下就是說其實已經到今天了我們來討論750萬的這個預算其實不要說在趁這個機會又說什麼爛三預算什麼其實如果\n會亂三預算今天我不會說在這邊還有昨天開會我就跟其他委員說其實國家的顏面我們一定要支持到底所以我覺得這個在扯那個預算亂三這個實在是很沒有意思啦我覺得這是個怪力亂神另外一個就是說有關剛剛有其他委員有提到\n廢監察院這個事情其實國民黨的態度是比較開放我們覺得是一個改革所以我們其實公開說明是兩個方向就監察權的改革是兩個方向當然第一個就是這次民眾黨所提的那個案子就是說廢除監察院把權力移到立法院這是一個廢院移權第二個我們希望的就是讓監察委員回歸到早期五權憲法的規定變成民意機關變成民選\n不管直接民選 階級民選先不去論這個把它變回去民意機關嘛所以這兩條路都是國民黨覺得可以討論的並不存在剛剛講的那些很奇怪因為今天有人提案了這個之後\n那民進黨不同意沒有關係或有意見也沒有關係啊大家可以拿出來討論但是回過頭去扯說2015年或2020年你沒有反對又怎麼樣我覺得那個沒有意思啊因為你去講歷史沒有用啊那你為什麼不講我們現在從善如流我就覺得民進黨當初說廢考今天我們舉雙手贊成\n那你為什麼不說我們這個叫從善如流對啊 那為什麼要回過頭去說你當初就不要 你當初就反對啊 為什麼你今天可以要所以因為你當年反對 那所以我現在也說你說要廢考 今天這個事我不同意這個邏輯上就邏輯性死亡了\n對啊 你當年你始終堅持廢除考試院 監察院那當年國民黨 以前的國民黨我不認識他們不同意但是今天新一代的國民黨認為說可以討論 可以去精簡我們優化監察權的行使而有一些改變這根本沒有問題啊那現在反而是有人跳出來拿歷史故事出來說當年你反對廢考監為什麼你現在便可以我覺得那個邏輯都錯誤啦\n為什麼我們對於政策的想法不能改變反而是現在民進黨改變了他就變成說早年說要廢考今天現在這麼好用的監察權捨不得放掉我覺得這個才是核心的問題所以請聽清楚我們認為從善如流就是要優化監察權的行使兩個面向一個廢院一權第二個當然我們監察院繼續留著監察委員繼續留著但是改回早年無權憲法的想法讓他變成民意機關\n這是國民黨想法 請大家不要再誤導國人了這是不應該的再回到今天的議題 我想請教一下今天750萬我已經說了我支持因為我認為這國家的顏面我絕對舉雙手贊成一定要支持我們國家的尊嚴但是750萬你們的報告只有55個字耶這個不對吧 而且細項都沒有 你就一個\n你就現在我們PowerPoint上面看到的就這幾個字而已啊那詳細的細節我們都沒有看到這是我第一個要跟你們抗議的事情不能說因為今天我們想要支持你你就不當一回事對不對那你細項你怎麼沒有給我們\n跟委員說明那因為口頭報告真的可能比較簡略那有關於750萬的細項我在這邊先再補充說明有關於第一項是有關於國外的講者還有貴賓他們的機票費大概是208萬\n然後相關講者貴賓的住宿是95萬然後另外講者的交通費是72,000然後另外因為要有場地要有國際會議這樣的場地包括廠租設備佈置\n還有餐飲等等是一百八十六萬然後同步口譯還有一些文化參訪等等是五十八萬兩千然後另外是文宣的資料的編譯費包括手冊包括譯程還有包括翻譯\n負面醫院是花時間所以這給我一份報告我們不能接受750萬你就55個字就沒了好不好我必須知道錢怎麼用那第二個我想請教一下為什麼我看那個IOI的官網我們的年度報告在2022年之後就沒有了這是怎麼回事如果我們這麼重視這個會議的話那為什麼2022年之後就沒有我們的報告我看香港也都還有請教怎麼回事\n跟委員說明基本上我們都有送這Annual Report我們都有送那可是可能官網還沒有放上去這個你沒有確定嗎我們監察院有送是他們官網沒放上我們有送我們絕對有送因為2022年2023年後面都沒看到耶但是我看到香港2022、2023都有耶對不對那這個部分你要給我們一個答案啊那還有一個問題喔就是\n我覺得啦就是因為我看到你們的報告還有你剛剛其他委員的問題我們難得用中華民國這個名義去加入一個國際的組織對不對中華民國監察院好那可是我看了一下我上了他們的官網去看我找不到我只找到他們只有在這個那個奧紐區還有太平洋區裡面\n只有一個監察院像譬如說香港他還會特別註明出來其他國家也會特別註明但是我們不見了你自己看這是他們官網上面的那你們有沒有去抗議過我覺得我現在是在替政府講話\n謝謝委員這個如果這個再繼續往下點的話就會看到是中華民國監察院繼續點可是我們這個列表上面別的你自己看嘛我們去看一下這個列表上面其他國家或地區都有被特別標示出來唯獨我們中華民國的監察院他忘了標註那我沒有意見也許他們公網漏掉但是基於國家的尊嚴以及顏面是不是你們可以請\n他們官網要把他簽上去不然你現在告訴我跟你們今天的報告我看完了以後貴院的報告上面寫我們難得用中華民國這個名義加入對不對那但是我看到他們的官網上面沒有嘛那沒有你跟我說點進去在某一個小地方有這就不對了因為列表才是重點啊是是是這一點我們會特別注意然後會去主張好 謝謝委員麻煩這個是我們國家顏面是是是\n所以我跟你們說貴院的人權委員會我們上個禮拜在審那個新住民的法案的時候我們請他來他不來也沒有請假就丟了一個公文過來說不可出席原因是什麼也不講我想那個人權委員會並不適用4461號他沒有理由說不來那能不能回去請\n副秘書長 轉告人權委員會不要這麼囂張今天立法院在審查法案這個跟一百萬的新住民有關你不要讓這一百萬的新住民覺得監察院就是看不起他們\n如果今天依照憲政規定而不來我覺得我可以接受依照461不來我也可以接受但是你既然不屬於4.461的範圍內你就一句不客出席然後就不來了那你這麼看不起台灣有一百萬的新住民嗎\n委員說明其實就我所知人權委員會是有正式的公文然後交給司法法治委員會副秘書長正式的公文你要經過召委的同意啊這可不可以麻煩你們了解一下今天沒有人同意他而且不管是各部會的首長來跟我們請假因為說明原因我們都是盡可能的都會同意\n但是今天貴院的人權委員會他就一份公務過來我不想來不可出席然後這樣子這個完全不符合過往立法院的慣例所以可不可以請轉告不要這麼看不起別人新住民的人權也非常的重要所以不是人權委員會不用管啦好不好好這麻煩你那我也在這邊說明了拜託人權委員會的這位各位委員以及\n主管不要看不起立法院立法院在審查的這些新住民他們不是外國人他們是中華民國的國民他們也有投票權他們也有參政權不要這樣子搞他們麻煩下一次請\n人權委會來的時候要請他們過來沒辦法來請說明請假的理由讓召委判斷不管針對哪一黨都一樣不是一個公文來我不爽來就不來沒有那種事所以剛複密的這個答覆我沒有辦法接受不是他跟我講就算數好不好好 謝謝複密好 謝謝吳委員那接下來我們請翁小林委員那也麻煩這個代理秘書長剛剛那個750萬的這個項目喔信箱就發給每個這個出席委員好不好\n好,謝謝主持人\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:01.789 --> 00:30.507\n委員好副秘書長早我想說我先最前面的我先那個說明一下就是有關這筆750萬元的部分那我個人是支持那我昨天在跟國民黨其他委員開會的時候我也是說服他們說其實因為這個在我們自己國家內召開這種世界性的組織的研討會其實這個支持本來就是應該的所以我先說明一下\n\n00:31.607 --> 00:52.212\n這個這是我的結論但是中間有一些問題我還是要跟你們理清楚那當然啦就是因為剛剛也有很多人有提到幾個問題但跟今天沒有絕對的關聯性我認為說他有一點怪力亂神所以我這邊先澄清一下就是說其實已經到今天了我們來討論750萬的這個預算其實不要說在趁這個機會又說什麼爛三預算什麼其實如果\n\n00:57.654 --> 01:16.435\n會亂三預算今天我不會說在這邊還有昨天開會我就跟其他委員說其實國家的顏面我們一定要支持到底所以我覺得這個在扯那個預算亂三這個實在是很沒有意思啦我覺得這是個怪力亂神另外一個就是說有關剛剛有其他委員有提到\n\n01:19.370 --> 01:44.845\n廢監察院這個事情其實國民黨的態度是比較開放我們覺得是一個改革所以我們其實公開說明是兩個方向就監察權的改革是兩個方向當然第一個就是這次民眾黨所提的那個案子就是說廢除監察院把權力移到立法院這是一個廢院移權第二個我們希望的就是讓監察委員回歸到早期五權憲法的規定變成民意機關變成民選\n\n01:46.886 --> 02:01.247\n不管直接民選階級民選先不去論這個把它變回去民意機關嘛所以這兩條路都是國民黨覺得可以討論的並不存在剛剛講的那些很奇怪因為今天有人提案了這個之後\n\n02:02.088 --> 02:23.101\n那民進黨不同意沒有關係或有意見也沒有關係啊大家可以拿出來討論但是回過頭去扯說2015年或2020年你沒有反對又怎麼樣我覺得那個沒有意思啊因為你去講歷史沒有用啊那你為什麼不講我們現在從善如流我就覺得民進黨當初說廢考今天我們舉雙手贊成\n\n02:26.023 --> 02:46.146\n那你為什麼不說我們這個叫從善如流對啊那為什麼要回過頭去說你當初就不要你當初就反對啊為什麼你今天可以要所以因為你當年反對那所以我現在也說你說要廢考今天這個事我不同意這個邏輯上就邏輯性死亡了\n\n02:47.012 --> 03:13.550\n對啊你當年你始終堅持廢除考試院監察院那當年國民黨以前的國民黨我不認識他們不同意但是今天新一代的國民黨認為說可以討論可以去精簡我們優化監察權的行使而有一些改變這根本沒有問題啊那現在反而是有人跳出來拿歷史故事出來說當年你反對廢考監為什麼你現在便可以我覺得那個邏輯都錯誤啦\n\n03:15.371 --> 03:43.513\n為什麼我們對於政策的想法不能改變反而是現在民進黨改變了他就變成說早年說要廢考今天現在這麼好用的監察權捨不得放掉我覺得這個才是核心的問題所以請聽清楚我們認為從善如流就是要優化監察權的行使兩個面向一個廢院一權第二個當然我們監察院繼續留著監察委員繼續留著但是改回早年無權憲法的想法讓他變成民意機關\n\n03:44.794 --> 04:02.366\n這是國民黨想法請大家不要再誤導國人了這是不應該的再回到今天的議題我想請教一下今天750萬我已經說了我支持因為我認為這國家的顏面我絕對舉雙手贊成一定要支持我們國家的尊嚴但是750萬你們的報告只有55個字耶這個不對吧而且細項都沒有你就一個\n\n04:09.622 --> 04:25.179\n你就現在我們PowerPoint上面看到的就這幾個字而已啊那詳細的細節我們都沒有看到這是我第一個要跟你們抗議的事情不能說因為今天我們想要支持你你就不當一回事對不對那你細項你怎麼沒有給我們\n\n04:26.817 --> 04:28.758\n跟委員說明那因為口頭報告真的可能比較簡略那有關於750萬的細項我在這邊先再補充說明有關於第一項是有關於國外的講者還有貴賓他們的機票費大概是208萬\n\n04:43.064 --> 04:45.788\n然後相關講者貴賓的住宿是95萬然後另外講者的交通費是72,000然後另外因為要有場地要有國際會議這樣的場地包括廠租設備佈置\n\n04:58.588 --> 05:11.105\n還有餐飲等等是一百八十六萬然後同步口譯還有一些文化參訪等等是五十八萬兩千然後另外是文宣的資料的編譯費包括手冊包括譯程還有包括翻譯\n\n05:14.850 --> 05:43.118\n負面醫院是花時間所以這給我一份報告我們不能接受750萬你就55個字就沒了好不好我必須知道錢怎麼用那第二個我想請教一下為什麼我看那個IOI的官網我們的年度報告在2022年之後就沒有了這是怎麼回事如果我們這麼重視這個會議的話那為什麼2022年之後就沒有我們的報告我看香港也都還有請教怎麼回事\n\n05:44.253 --> 06:12.880\n跟委員說明基本上我們都有送這AnnualReport我們都有送那可是可能官網還沒有放上去這個你沒有確定嗎我們監察院有送是他們官網沒放上我們有送我們絕對有送因為2022年2023年後面都沒看到耶但是我看到香港2022、2023都有耶對不對那這個部分你要給我們一個答案啊那還有一個問題喔就是\n\n06:14.008 --> 06:35.676\n我覺得啦就是因為我看到你們的報告還有你剛剛其他委員的問題我們難得用中華民國這個名義去加入一個國際的組織對不對中華民國監察院好那可是我看了一下我上了他們的官網去看我找不到我只找到他們只有在這個那個奧紐區還有太平洋區裡面\n\n06:36.936 --> 06:51.065\n只有一個監察院像譬如說香港他還會特別註明出來其他國家也會特別註明但是我們不見了你自己看這是他們官網上面的那你們有沒有去抗議過我覺得我現在是在替政府講話\n\n06:53.367 --> 07:21.505\n謝謝委員這個如果這個再繼續往下點的話就會看到是中華民國監察院繼續點可是我們這個列表上面別的你自己看嘛我們去看一下這個列表上面其他國家或地區都有被特別標示出來唯獨我們中華民國的監察院他忘了標註那我沒有意見也許他們公網漏掉但是基於國家的尊嚴以及顏面是不是你們可以請\n\n07:22.906 --> 07:49.665\n他們官網要把他簽上去不然你現在告訴我跟你們今天的報告我看完了以後貴院的報告上面寫我們難得用中華民國這個名義加入對不對那但是我看到他們的官網上面沒有嘛那沒有你跟我說點進去在某一個小地方有這就不對了因為列表才是重點啊是是是這一點我們會特別注意然後會去主張好謝謝委員麻煩這個是我們國家顏面是是是\n\n07:51.927 --> 08:16.581\n所以我跟你們說貴院的人權委員會我們上個禮拜在審那個新住民的法案的時候我們請他來他不來也沒有請假就丟了一個公文過來說不可出席原因是什麼也不講我想那個人權委員會並不適用4461號他沒有理由說不來那能不能回去請\n\n08:17.902 --> 08:31.616\n副秘書長轉告人權委員會不要這麼囂張今天立法院在審查法案這個跟一百萬的新住民有關你不要讓這一百萬的新住民覺得監察院就是看不起他們\n\n08:32.901 --> 08:48.822\n如果今天依照憲政規定而不來我覺得我可以接受依照461不來我也可以接受但是你既然不屬於4.461的範圍內你就一句不客出席然後就不來了那你這麼看不起台灣有一百萬的新住民嗎\n\n08:50.683 --> 09:15.837\n委員說明其實就我所知人權委員會是有正式的公文然後交給司法法治委員會副秘書長正式的公文你要經過召委的同意啊這可不可以麻煩你們了解一下今天沒有人同意他而且不管是各部會的首長來跟我們請假因為說明原因我們都是盡可能的都會同意\n\n09:16.457 --> 09:43.673\n但是今天貴院的人權委員會他就一份公務過來我不想來不可出席然後這樣子這個完全不符合過往立法院的慣例所以可不可以請轉告不要這麼看不起別人新住民的人權也非常的重要所以不是人權委員會不用管啦好不好好這麻煩你那我也在這邊說明了拜託人權委員會的這位各位委員以及\n\n09:44.551 --> 09:58.490\n主管不要看不起立法院立法院在審查的這些新住民他們不是外國人他們是中華民國的國民他們也有投票權他們也有參政權不要這樣子搞他們麻煩下一次請\n\n09:59.571 --> 10:24.804\n人權委會來的時候要請他們過來沒辦法來請說明請假的理由讓召委判斷不管針對哪一黨都一樣不是一個公文來我不爽來就不來沒有那種事所以剛複密的這個答覆我沒有辦法接受不是他跟我講就算數好不好好謝謝複密好謝謝吳委員那接下來我們請翁小林委員那也麻煩這個代理秘書長剛剛那個750萬的這個項目喔信箱就發給每個這個出席委員好不好\n\n10:35.291 --> 10:35.599\n好,謝謝主持人\n\n","segments":[{"start":1.789,"end":30.507,"text":"委員好副秘書長早我想說我先最前面的我先那個說明一下就是有關這筆750萬元的部分那我個人是支持那我昨天在跟國民黨其他委員開會的時候我也是說服他們說其實因為這個在我們自己國家內召開這種世界性的組織的研討會其實這個支持本來就是應該的所以我先說明一下"},{"start":31.607,"end":52.212,"text":"這個這是我的結論但是中間有一些問題我還是要跟你們理清楚那當然啦就是因為剛剛也有很多人有提到幾個問題但跟今天沒有絕對的關聯性我認為說他有一點怪力亂神所以我這邊先澄清一下就是說其實已經到今天了我們來討論750萬的這個預算其實不要說在趁這個機會又說什麼爛三預算什麼其實如果"},{"start":57.654,"end":76.435,"text":"會亂三預算今天我不會說在這邊還有昨天開會我就跟其他委員說其實國家的顏面我們一定要支持到底所以我覺得這個在扯那個預算亂三這個實在是很沒有意思啦我覺得這是個怪力亂神另外一個就是說有關剛剛有其他委員有提到"},{"start":79.37,"end":104.845,"text":"廢監察院這個事情其實國民黨的態度是比較開放我們覺得是一個改革所以我們其實公開說明是兩個方向就監察權的改革是兩個方向當然第一個就是這次民眾黨所提的那個案子就是說廢除監察院把權力移到立法院這是一個廢院移權第二個我們希望的就是讓監察委員回歸到早期五權憲法的規定變成民意機關變成民選"},{"start":106.886,"end":121.247,"text":"不管直接民選 階級民選先不去論這個把它變回去民意機關嘛所以這兩條路都是國民黨覺得可以討論的並不存在剛剛講的那些很奇怪因為今天有人提案了這個之後"},{"start":122.088,"end":143.101,"text":"那民進黨不同意沒有關係或有意見也沒有關係啊大家可以拿出來討論但是回過頭去扯說2015年或2020年你沒有反對又怎麼樣我覺得那個沒有意思啊因為你去講歷史沒有用啊那你為什麼不講我們現在從善如流我就覺得民進黨當初說廢考今天我們舉雙手贊成"},{"start":146.023,"end":166.146,"text":"那你為什麼不說我們這個叫從善如流對啊 那為什麼要回過頭去說你當初就不要 你當初就反對啊 為什麼你今天可以要所以因為你當年反對 那所以我現在也說你說要廢考 今天這個事我不同意這個邏輯上就邏輯性死亡了"},{"start":167.012,"end":193.55,"text":"對啊 你當年你始終堅持廢除考試院 監察院那當年國民黨 以前的國民黨我不認識他們不同意但是今天新一代的國民黨認為說可以討論 可以去精簡我們優化監察權的行使而有一些改變這根本沒有問題啊那現在反而是有人跳出來拿歷史故事出來說當年你反對廢考監為什麼你現在便可以我覺得那個邏輯都錯誤啦"},{"start":195.371,"end":223.513,"text":"為什麼我們對於政策的想法不能改變反而是現在民進黨改變了他就變成說早年說要廢考今天現在這麼好用的監察權捨不得放掉我覺得這個才是核心的問題所以請聽清楚我們認為從善如流就是要優化監察權的行使兩個面向一個廢院一權第二個當然我們監察院繼續留著監察委員繼續留著但是改回早年無權憲法的想法讓他變成民意機關"},{"start":224.794,"end":242.366,"text":"這是國民黨想法 請大家不要再誤導國人了這是不應該的再回到今天的議題 我想請教一下今天750萬我已經說了我支持因為我認為這國家的顏面我絕對舉雙手贊成一定要支持我們國家的尊嚴但是750萬你們的報告只有55個字耶這個不對吧 而且細項都沒有 你就一個"},{"start":249.622,"end":265.179,"text":"你就現在我們PowerPoint上面看到的就這幾個字而已啊那詳細的細節我們都沒有看到這是我第一個要跟你們抗議的事情不能說因為今天我們想要支持你你就不當一回事對不對那你細項你怎麼沒有給我們"},{"start":266.817,"end":268.758,"text":"跟委員說明那因為口頭報告真的可能比較簡略那有關於750萬的細項我在這邊先再補充說明有關於第一項是有關於國外的講者還有貴賓他們的機票費大概是208萬"},{"start":283.064,"end":285.788,"text":"然後相關講者貴賓的住宿是95萬然後另外講者的交通費是72,000然後另外因為要有場地要有國際會議這樣的場地包括廠租設備佈置"},{"start":298.588,"end":311.105,"text":"還有餐飲等等是一百八十六萬然後同步口譯還有一些文化參訪等等是五十八萬兩千然後另外是文宣的資料的編譯費包括手冊包括譯程還有包括翻譯"},{"start":314.85,"end":343.118,"text":"負面醫院是花時間所以這給我一份報告我們不能接受750萬你就55個字就沒了好不好我必須知道錢怎麼用那第二個我想請教一下為什麼我看那個IOI的官網我們的年度報告在2022年之後就沒有了這是怎麼回事如果我們這麼重視這個會議的話那為什麼2022年之後就沒有我們的報告我看香港也都還有請教怎麼回事"},{"start":344.253,"end":372.88,"text":"跟委員說明基本上我們都有送這Annual Report我們都有送那可是可能官網還沒有放上去這個你沒有確定嗎我們監察院有送是他們官網沒放上我們有送我們絕對有送因為2022年2023年後面都沒看到耶但是我看到香港2022、2023都有耶對不對那這個部分你要給我們一個答案啊那還有一個問題喔就是"},{"start":374.008,"end":395.676,"text":"我覺得啦就是因為我看到你們的報告還有你剛剛其他委員的問題我們難得用中華民國這個名義去加入一個國際的組織對不對中華民國監察院好那可是我看了一下我上了他們的官網去看我找不到我只找到他們只有在這個那個奧紐區還有太平洋區裡面"},{"start":396.936,"end":411.065,"text":"只有一個監察院像譬如說香港他還會特別註明出來其他國家也會特別註明但是我們不見了你自己看這是他們官網上面的那你們有沒有去抗議過我覺得我現在是在替政府講話"},{"start":413.367,"end":441.505,"text":"謝謝委員這個如果這個再繼續往下點的話就會看到是中華民國監察院繼續點可是我們這個列表上面別的你自己看嘛我們去看一下這個列表上面其他國家或地區都有被特別標示出來唯獨我們中華民國的監察院他忘了標註那我沒有意見也許他們公網漏掉但是基於國家的尊嚴以及顏面是不是你們可以請"},{"start":442.906,"end":469.665,"text":"他們官網要把他簽上去不然你現在告訴我跟你們今天的報告我看完了以後貴院的報告上面寫我們難得用中華民國這個名義加入對不對那但是我看到他們的官網上面沒有嘛那沒有你跟我說點進去在某一個小地方有這就不對了因為列表才是重點啊是是是這一點我們會特別注意然後會去主張好 謝謝委員麻煩這個是我們國家顏面是是是"},{"start":471.927,"end":496.581,"text":"所以我跟你們說貴院的人權委員會我們上個禮拜在審那個新住民的法案的時候我們請他來他不來也沒有請假就丟了一個公文過來說不可出席原因是什麼也不講我想那個人權委員會並不適用4461號他沒有理由說不來那能不能回去請"},{"start":497.902,"end":511.616,"text":"副秘書長 轉告人權委員會不要這麼囂張今天立法院在審查法案這個跟一百萬的新住民有關你不要讓這一百萬的新住民覺得監察院就是看不起他們"},{"start":512.901,"end":528.822,"text":"如果今天依照憲政規定而不來我覺得我可以接受依照461不來我也可以接受但是你既然不屬於4.461的範圍內你就一句不客出席然後就不來了那你這麼看不起台灣有一百萬的新住民嗎"},{"start":530.683,"end":555.837,"text":"委員說明其實就我所知人權委員會是有正式的公文然後交給司法法治委員會副秘書長正式的公文你要經過召委的同意啊這可不可以麻煩你們了解一下今天沒有人同意他而且不管是各部會的首長來跟我們請假因為說明原因我們都是盡可能的都會同意"},{"start":556.457,"end":583.673,"text":"但是今天貴院的人權委員會他就一份公務過來我不想來不可出席然後這樣子這個完全不符合過往立法院的慣例所以可不可以請轉告不要這麼看不起別人新住民的人權也非常的重要所以不是人權委員會不用管啦好不好好這麻煩你那我也在這邊說明了拜託人權委員會的這位各位委員以及"},{"start":584.551,"end":598.49,"text":"主管不要看不起立法院立法院在審查的這些新住民他們不是外國人他們是中華民國的國民他們也有投票權他們也有參政權不要這樣子搞他們麻煩下一次請"},{"start":599.571,"end":624.804,"text":"人權委會來的時候要請他們過來沒辦法來請說明請假的理由讓召委判斷不管針對哪一黨都一樣不是一個公文來我不爽來就不來沒有那種事所以剛複密的這個答覆我沒有辦法接受不是他跟我講就算數好不好好 謝謝複密好 謝謝吳委員那接下來我們請翁小林委員那也麻煩這個代理秘書長剛剛那個750萬的這個項目喔信箱就發給每個這個出席委員好不好"},{"start":635.291,"end":635.599,"text":"好,謝謝主持人"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":446,"blocks":[["吳委員宗憲：（10時33分）謝謝主席，麻煩副秘書長。"],["王代理秘書長增華：委員好。"],["吳委員宗憲：副秘書長早。最前面我先說明一下，就是有關這筆750萬元的部分，我個人是支持啦。"],["王代理秘書長增華：謝謝委員。"],["吳委員宗憲：我昨天在跟國民黨其他委員開會的時候，我也是說服他們說，因為在我們自己國家內召開這種世界性組織的研討會，其實本來就應該要支持啦，所以我先說明一下，這是我的結論，但是中間有一些問題我還是要跟你們釐清楚。"],["王代理秘書長增華：好。"],["吳委員宗憲：因為剛剛也有很多人有提到幾個問題，但跟今天的議程沒有絕對的關聯性，我認為那有一點怪力亂神，所以我這邊先澄清一下，就是說已經到今天了，我們來討論750萬這個預算，不要趁這個機會又說什麼濫刪預算什麼的，如果會濫刪預算，今天我不會說在這邊……還有昨天開會的時候我就跟其他委員說，其實國家的顏面我們一定要支持到底，所以我覺得扯預算濫刪實在是很沒有意思啦，我覺得這是一個怪力亂神！","另外，剛剛其他委員有提到廢監察院一事，其實國民黨的態度是比較開放，我們覺得這是一個改革，所以我們公開說明是兩個方向，就監察權的改革是兩個方向：第一個是這次民眾黨所提的那個案子，就是說廢除監察院，把權力移到立法院，這是一個廢院移權；第二個，我們希望的就是讓監察委員回歸到早期五權憲法的規定，變成民意機關、變成民選，不管是直接民選、間接民選，先不去論這個，把它變回民意機關嘛！所以這兩條路都是國民黨覺得可以討論的，並不存在剛剛講的那些很奇怪的問題。今天有人提了這個案之後，民進黨不同意沒有關係，或者有意見也沒有關係，大家可以拿出來討論，但是回過頭去扯2015年或2020年你們又反對、又怎麼樣，我覺得那個沒有意思啊！因為去講歷史沒有用啊！那為什麼不講我們現在從善如流，就覺得民進黨當初說廢考監，我們舉雙手贊成，對不對？為什麼不說我們這個叫從善如流？為什麼要回過頭去說當初你們就不要、當初就反對，為什麼今天就可以要？因為當年反對，所以現在就說廢考監這個事不同意！這個在邏輯上就邏輯性死亡了！當年始終堅持廢除考試院、監察院，以前的國民黨我不認識，他們不同意，但是今天新一代的國民黨認為可以討論、可以去精簡，我們優化監察權的行使而有一些改變，這根本沒有問題啊！現在反而是有人跳出來拿歷史故事出來說當年反對廢考監，為什麼現在變可以？我覺得那個邏輯都錯誤！為什麼我們對於政策的想法不能改變？反而是現在民進黨改變了，變成早年說要廢考監，但現在覺得這麼好用的監察權捨不得放掉，我覺得這個才是核心的問題。","所以請聽清楚，我們認為從善如流就是要優化監察權的行使，兩個面向：第一個，廢院移權。第二個，當然監察院繼續留著、監察委員繼續留著，但是改回早年五權憲法的想法，讓它變成民意機關，這是國民黨的想法，請大家不要再誤導國人了，這是不應該的。","再來回到今天的議題，我想請教一下，今天的750萬我已經說了我支持，因為我認為這是國家的顏面，我絕對舉雙手贊成，一定要支持我們國家的尊嚴。但是對於750萬你們的報告只有55個字欸！這個不對吧？而且連細項都沒有，就只有現在我們在PowerPoint上面看到的這幾個字而已，詳細的細節我們都沒有看到，這是我第一個要跟你們抗議的事情！不能說因為今天我們想要支持你，你就不當一回事，對不對？細項怎麼沒有給我們？"],["王代理秘書長增華：跟委員說明，因為口頭報告真的可能比較簡略，有關於750萬的細項，我在這邊再補充說明。第一項是有關於國外的講者還有貴賓他們的機票費，大概是208萬；相關講者貴賓的住宿是95萬；講者的交通費是7萬2,000；因為要有場地，要有國際會議這樣的場地，包括場租、設備、布置還有餐飲等等是186萬；另外還有同步口譯及一些文化參訪等等是58萬2,000；然後是文宣資料的編印費，包括手冊、包括議程，還包括翻譯費……"],["吳委員宗憲：副秘，因為這個很花時間，所以給我一份報告。"],["王代理秘書長增華：沒問題。"],["吳委員宗憲：我們不能接受750萬僅55個字就沒了，好不好？"],["王代理秘書長增華：是。"],["吳委員宗憲：我必須知道錢怎麼用。"],["王代理秘書長增華：好的。"],["吳委員宗憲：第二個我想請教一下，我看IOI官網，為什麼我們的年度報告在2022年之後就沒有了？這是怎麼回事？如果我們這麼重視這個會議的話，為什麼2022年之後官網就沒有我們的報告了？我看香港也都還有啊！請教是怎麼回事？"],["王代理秘書長增華：跟委員說明，基本上我們都有送，annual report我們都有送，可能是官網還沒有放上去……"],["吳委員宗憲：你有確定嗎？我們監察院有送，是他們官網沒放？"],["王代理秘書長增華：我們有送，我們絕對有送。"],["吳委員宗憲：因為2022年、2023年，後面都沒看到欸！"],["王代理秘書長增華：對，我們都有送。"],["吳委員宗憲：但是我看到香港2022、2023都有，對不對？關於這個部分你要給我們一個答案啊！"],["王代理秘書長增華：好的。"],["吳委員宗憲：還有一個問題，因為我看到你們的報告，還有剛剛其他委員的問題，就是我們難得用中華民國這個名義去加入一個國際組織，對不對？"],["王代理秘書長增華：中華民國監察院的名義。"],["吳委員宗憲：可是我上了他們的官網去看，我找不到，他們在澳紐區，還有太平洋區裡面只有一個監察院，譬如香港還會特別註明出來，其他國家也會特別註明，但是我們不見了，你自己看，這是他們官網上面的，那你們有沒有去抗議過？我覺得我現在是在替政府講話喔！"],["王代理秘書長增華：是，謝謝委員。這個如果再繼續往下點的話就會看到是中華民國監察院。"],["吳委員宗憲：繼續點？"],["王代理秘書長增華：就是……"],["吳委員宗憲：可是這個列表上面你自己看，我們去看一下這個列表上面其他國家或地區都有被特別標示出來，唯獨我們中華民國的監察院它忘了標註，我沒有意見，也許他們官網漏掉，但是基於國家的尊嚴以及顏面，是不是你們可以請他們官網要把它加上去，不然你現在告訴我，你們今天的報告我看完了以後，發現貴院報告上面寫我們難得用中華民國這個名義加入，對不對？但是我看他們的官網上沒有嘛！你跟我說點進去在某一個小地方有，這就不對了，因為列表才是重點啊！"],["王代理秘書長增華：是，這一點我們會特別注意，然後會去主張，謝謝委員。"],["吳委員宗憲：好，這個部分麻煩，這個是我們國家顏面問題。"],["王代理秘書長增華：是。"],["吳委員宗憲：我想不管任何政黨都認為我們國家顏面是最重要的。","最後我跟你們說，我們上個禮拜在審新住民法案的時候請貴院的人權委員會來，他們不來，也沒有請假，就丟了一個公文說不克出席，原因是什麼也不講。我想人權委員會並不適用釋字第461號，它沒有理由說不來。能不能請副秘書長回去轉告人權委員會不要這麼囂張，今天立法院在審查法案，這個跟100萬新住民有關，不要讓這100萬新住民覺得監察院就是看不起他們。如果今天依照憲政規定不來，我覺得我可以接受；依照釋字第461號不來，我也可以接受，但是既然不屬於釋字第461號的範圍內，就一句「不克出席」，然後就不來了！這麼看不起臺灣有100萬的新住民嗎？"],["王代理秘書長增華：跟委員說明，其實就我所知，人權委員會是有正式公文交給司法及法制委員會。"],["吳委員宗憲：副秘書長，正式的公文要經過召委的同意，這可不可以麻煩你們了解一下？今天沒有人同意它，而且不管是各部會首長來跟我們請假一定會說明原因，我們都是儘可能同意，但是今天貴院的人權委員會就一紙公文過來表示不想來、不克出席，這完全不符合過往立法院的慣例。所以，可不可以請轉告不要這麼看不起別人？新住民的人權也非常重要，所以不是人權委員會不用管，好不好？就麻煩你，我也在這邊說明了，拜託人權委員會的各位委員及主管不要看不起立法院，立法院在審查的這些新住民，他們不是外國人，他們是中華民國的國民，他們有投票權，他們也有參政權，不要這樣子搞他們。麻煩下一次請人權委員會來的時候要請他們過來；沒辦法來，也請說明請假的理由，讓召委判斷，不管針對哪一黨都一樣，不是一個公文來，不爽來就不來，沒有那種事。所以剛剛副秘的答復，我沒有辦法接受，並不是它有跟我講就算數，好不好？謝謝副秘。"],["主席（李委員坤城代）：謝謝吳委員。","接下來請翁曉玲委員。也麻煩代理秘書長，剛剛那個750萬的細項就發給每個出席委員，好不好？"]],"agenda":{"page_end":136,"meet_id":"聯席會議-11-3-20,36-1","speakers":["賴惠員","林德福","吳秉叡","賴士葆","郭國文","黃國昌","鍾佳濱","沈發惠","羅智強","莊瑞雄","顏寬恒","吳宗憲","翁曉玲","李坤城","陳玉珍","吳思瑤","李彥秀","陳培瑜","王世堅","黃珊珊","徐欣瑩","王鴻薇","林倩綺","林思銘","羅明才"],"page_start":75,"meetingDate":["2025-06-26"],"gazette_id":"1146401","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1146401_00003"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期財政、司法及法制委員會第1次聯席會議紀錄","content":"審查行政院函為監察院114年度辦理「2025年第37屆澳紐及太平洋地區監察使年會暨人權國際研\n討會」所需經費不敷，請同意動支114年度中央政府總預算第二預備金750萬元支應案","agenda_id":"1146401_00002"}}}