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00:01:02,061\n那言辭辯論這方面的公開呢其實他在引述這些證人或者鑒定人的一個說法的時候其實就有可能是斟酌在什麼法律上的針點什麼證據法則等等之類的當民眾在看這一些可能經過其他人剪輯過的或者單純這一方面的直播卻沒有看到前面的陳述的時候他會認為法院怎麼會做出這個判斷這跟我想的不太一樣啊\n\n4\n00:01:03,222 --> 00:01:22,099\n當這個感覺出現的時候它未必是增加司法的公信力所以到底開放的範圍應該是怎麼做這其實有很研討的必要那當然民眾黨一直在講說在這個司法國事會議的時候有講到法庭直播那可能是在文字上或理解上有點錯誤明明司法國事會議講的是說要研議\n\n5\n00:01:23,480 --> 00:01:36,164\n研議之後有沒有研議有啊研議了一年之後發現認為憲法法庭是目前最適合直播的所以做了憲法法庭的直播這就是現在的結論那為什麼這一個結論不被接受那應該就對這個結論來討論嘛\n\n6\n00:01:38,405 --> 00:02:04,812\n今天為什麼在法庭直播會有民粹的風險為什麼會有檢擊的風險會有證人跟鑑定人不能夠或不敢出來作證的這個風險為什麼會有兒少還有這些婦女團體所提出的風險理由很簡單因為它是一個專業判斷法官今天面對的其實是兩個人三個人之間的一個正義之爭當專業的判斷淪為直播淪為每一個公審的對象的時候這並不是一個妥當的現象\n\n7\n00:02:05,572 --> 00:02:20,290\n不然我來講假設我今天我很重視我的生命安全我要動手術請問我要不要要求我的手術來做全國的直播如果我今天在坐飛機我很重視飛航的安全我要不要要求以後呢開飛機的都要全程直播\n\n8\n00:02:21,051 --> 00:02:43,100\n聽起來好像還有道理啊公開透明啊但問題是這就是一種侵犯專業的態度那以後大家會不會開始變成我不要犯錯我只要按照SOP稍微有點風險的行為我不做為什麼因為全程在直播那這樣的話呢就是把這個專業棄於不顧反而是用一種人民直接用眼睛觀看的這種威嚇上的力量然後去影響這整體的進行\n\n9\n00:02:44,941 --> 00:03:13,140\n這跟立法院不一樣立法院的是政治責任立法院要讓人民看到到底有沒有去代表選區的這個人民說話立法院要有多元的討論立法院必須要有政治的責任所以立法院有這一個直播但法庭要處理的是個案的正義它處理的是當事人之間的關係用這樣的一個方式冒然的直播其實就是對當事人的不尊重也是一種非常嚴重的正義的侵害謝謝謝謝沈伯陽\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n77\t1378\t好 謝謝主席那因為這個是一個非常複雜的議題所以我就直接順著剛剛莊瑞雄委員的繼續往下講因為這個畢竟是一個複雜的議題那竟然就是用這樣的一個擼過去的方式協商過水的方式來討論我覺得是岐岐不可啦\n24790\t38721\t那剛剛有提到就是說我剛剛其實都有聽整個協商那協商的時候有說這是一個可以增加司法公信力的一個方式其實我認為正正相反因為現在民眾黨所提出的這個案子它的最主要是限制在這個言辭辯論這方面的公開\n40282\t62061\t那言辭辯論這方面的公開呢其實他在引述這些證人或者鑒定人的一個說法的時候其實就有可能是斟酌在什麼法律上的針點什麼證據法則等等之類的當民眾在看這一些可能經過其他人剪輯過的或者單純這一方面的直播卻沒有看到前面的陳述的時候他會認為法院怎麼會做出這個判斷這跟我想的不太一樣啊\n63222\t82099\t當這個感覺出現的時候它未必是增加司法的公信力所以到底開放的範圍應該是怎麼做這其實有很研討的必要那當然民眾黨一直在講說在這個司法國事會議的時候有講到法庭直播那可能是在文字上或理解上有點錯誤明明司法國事會議講的是說要研議\n83480\t96164\t研議之後有沒有研議 有啊研議了一年之後發現認為憲法法庭是目前最適合直播的所以做了憲法法庭的直播這就是現在的結論那為什麼這一個結論不被接受那應該就對這個結論來討論嘛\n98405\t124812\t今天為什麼在法庭直播會有民粹的風險為什麼會有檢擊的風險會有證人跟鑑定人不能夠或不敢出來作證的這個風險為什麼會有兒少還有這些婦女團體所提出的風險理由很簡單因為它是一個專業判斷法官今天面對的其實是兩個人三個人之間的一個正義之爭當專業的判斷淪為直播淪為每一個公審的對象的時候這並不是一個妥當的現象\n125572\t140290\t不然我來講假設我今天我很重視我的生命安全我要動手術請問我要不要要求我的手術來做全國的直播如果我今天在坐飛機我很重視飛航的安全我要不要要求以後呢開飛機的都要全程直播\n141051\t163100\t聽起來好像還有道理啊 公開透明啊但問題是 這就是一種侵犯專業的態度那以後大家會不會開始變成我不要犯錯 我只要按照SOP稍微有點風險的行為我不做 為什麼因為全程在直播那這樣的話呢 就是把這個專業棄於不顧反而是用一種人民直接用眼睛觀看的這種威嚇上的力量然後去影響這整體的進行\n164941\t193140\t這跟立法院不一樣立法院的是政治責任立法院要讓人民看到到底有沒有去代表選區的這個人民說話立法院要有多元的討論立法院必須要有政治的責任所以立法院有這一個直播但法庭要處理的是個案的正義它處理的是當事人之間的關係用這樣的一個方式冒然的直播其實就是對當事人的不尊重也是一種非常嚴重的正義的侵害謝謝謝謝沈伯陽\n","txt":"好 謝謝主席那因為這個是一個非常複雜的議題所以我就直接順著剛剛莊瑞雄委員的繼續往下講因為這個畢竟是一個複雜的議題那竟然就是用這樣的一個擼過去的方式協商過水的方式來討論我覺得是岐岐不可啦\n那剛剛有提到就是說我剛剛其實都有聽整個協商那協商的時候有說這是一個可以增加司法公信力的一個方式其實我認為正正相反因為現在民眾黨所提出的這個案子它的最主要是限制在這個言辭辯論這方面的公開\n那言辭辯論這方面的公開呢其實他在引述這些證人或者鑒定人的一個說法的時候其實就有可能是斟酌在什麼法律上的針點什麼證據法則等等之類的當民眾在看這一些可能經過其他人剪輯過的或者單純這一方面的直播卻沒有看到前面的陳述的時候他會認為法院怎麼會做出這個判斷這跟我想的不太一樣啊\n當這個感覺出現的時候它未必是增加司法的公信力所以到底開放的範圍應該是怎麼做這其實有很研討的必要那當然民眾黨一直在講說在這個司法國事會議的時候有講到法庭直播那可能是在文字上或理解上有點錯誤明明司法國事會議講的是說要研議\n研議之後有沒有研議 有啊研議了一年之後發現認為憲法法庭是目前最適合直播的所以做了憲法法庭的直播這就是現在的結論那為什麼這一個結論不被接受那應該就對這個結論來討論嘛\n今天為什麼在法庭直播會有民粹的風險為什麼會有檢擊的風險會有證人跟鑑定人不能夠或不敢出來作證的這個風險為什麼會有兒少還有這些婦女團體所提出的風險理由很簡單因為它是一個專業判斷法官今天面對的其實是兩個人三個人之間的一個正義之爭當專業的判斷淪為直播淪為每一個公審的對象的時候這並不是一個妥當的現象\n不然我來講假設我今天我很重視我的生命安全我要動手術請問我要不要要求我的手術來做全國的直播如果我今天在坐飛機我很重視飛航的安全我要不要要求以後呢開飛機的都要全程直播\n聽起來好像還有道理啊 公開透明啊但問題是 這就是一種侵犯專業的態度那以後大家會不會開始變成我不要犯錯 我只要按照SOP稍微有點風險的行為我不做 為什麼因為全程在直播那這樣的話呢 就是把這個專業棄於不顧反而是用一種人民直接用眼睛觀看的這種威嚇上的力量然後去影響這整體的進行\n這跟立法院不一樣立法院的是政治責任立法院要讓人民看到到底有沒有去代表選區的這個人民說話立法院要有多元的討論立法院必須要有政治的責任所以立法院有這一個直播但法庭要處理的是個案的正義它處理的是當事人之間的關係用這樣的一個方式冒然的直播其實就是對當事人的不尊重也是一種非常嚴重的正義的侵害謝謝謝謝沈伯陽\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.077 --> 00:01.378\n好謝謝主席那因為這個是一個非常複雜的議題所以我就直接順著剛剛莊瑞雄委員的繼續往下講因為這個畢竟是一個複雜的議題那竟然就是用這樣的一個擼過去的方式協商過水的方式來討論我覺得是岐岐不可啦\n\n00:24.790 --> 00:38.721\n那剛剛有提到就是說我剛剛其實都有聽整個協商那協商的時候有說這是一個可以增加司法公信力的一個方式其實我認為正正相反因為現在民眾黨所提出的這個案子它的最主要是限制在這個言辭辯論這方面的公開\n\n00:40.282 --> 01:02.061\n那言辭辯論這方面的公開呢其實他在引述這些證人或者鑒定人的一個說法的時候其實就有可能是斟酌在什麼法律上的針點什麼證據法則等等之類的當民眾在看這一些可能經過其他人剪輯過的或者單純這一方面的直播卻沒有看到前面的陳述的時候他會認為法院怎麼會做出這個判斷這跟我想的不太一樣啊\n\n01:03.222 --> 01:22.099\n當這個感覺出現的時候它未必是增加司法的公信力所以到底開放的範圍應該是怎麼做這其實有很研討的必要那當然民眾黨一直在講說在這個司法國事會議的時候有講到法庭直播那可能是在文字上或理解上有點錯誤明明司法國事會議講的是說要研議\n\n01:23.480 --> 01:36.164\n研議之後有沒有研議有啊研議了一年之後發現認為憲法法庭是目前最適合直播的所以做了憲法法庭的直播這就是現在的結論那為什麼這一個結論不被接受那應該就對這個結論來討論嘛\n\n01:38.405 --> 02:04.812\n今天為什麼在法庭直播會有民粹的風險為什麼會有檢擊的風險會有證人跟鑑定人不能夠或不敢出來作證的這個風險為什麼會有兒少還有這些婦女團體所提出的風險理由很簡單因為它是一個專業判斷法官今天面對的其實是兩個人三個人之間的一個正義之爭當專業的判斷淪為直播淪為每一個公審的對象的時候這並不是一個妥當的現象\n\n02:05.572 --> 02:20.290\n不然我來講假設我今天我很重視我的生命安全我要動手術請問我要不要要求我的手術來做全國的直播如果我今天在坐飛機我很重視飛航的安全我要不要要求以後呢開飛機的都要全程直播\n\n02:21.051 --> 02:43.100\n聽起來好像還有道理啊公開透明啊但問題是這就是一種侵犯專業的態度那以後大家會不會開始變成我不要犯錯我只要按照SOP稍微有點風險的行為我不做為什麼因為全程在直播那這樣的話呢就是把這個專業棄於不顧反而是用一種人民直接用眼睛觀看的這種威嚇上的力量然後去影響這整體的進行\n\n02:44.941 --> 03:13.140\n這跟立法院不一樣立法院的是政治責任立法院要讓人民看到到底有沒有去代表選區的這個人民說話立法院要有多元的討論立法院必須要有政治的責任所以立法院有這一個直播但法庭要處理的是個案的正義它處理的是當事人之間的關係用這樣的一個方式冒然的直播其實就是對當事人的不尊重也是一種非常嚴重的正義的侵害謝謝謝謝沈伯陽\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.077,"end":1.378,"text":"好 謝謝主席那因為這個是一個非常複雜的議題所以我就直接順著剛剛莊瑞雄委員的繼續往下講因為這個畢竟是一個複雜的議題那竟然就是用這樣的一個擼過去的方式協商過水的方式來討論我覺得是岐岐不可啦"},{"start":24.79,"end":38.721,"text":"那剛剛有提到就是說我剛剛其實都有聽整個協商那協商的時候有說這是一個可以增加司法公信力的一個方式其實我認為正正相反因為現在民眾黨所提出的這個案子它的最主要是限制在這個言辭辯論這方面的公開"},{"start":40.282,"end":62.061,"text":"那言辭辯論這方面的公開呢其實他在引述這些證人或者鑒定人的一個說法的時候其實就有可能是斟酌在什麼法律上的針點什麼證據法則等等之類的當民眾在看這一些可能經過其他人剪輯過的或者單純這一方面的直播卻沒有看到前面的陳述的時候他會認為法院怎麼會做出這個判斷這跟我想的不太一樣啊"},{"start":63.222,"end":82.099,"text":"當這個感覺出現的時候它未必是增加司法的公信力所以到底開放的範圍應該是怎麼做這其實有很研討的必要那當然民眾黨一直在講說在這個司法國事會議的時候有講到法庭直播那可能是在文字上或理解上有點錯誤明明司法國事會議講的是說要研議"},{"start":83.48,"end":96.164,"text":"研議之後有沒有研議 有啊研議了一年之後發現認為憲法法庭是目前最適合直播的所以做了憲法法庭的直播這就是現在的結論那為什麼這一個結論不被接受那應該就對這個結論來討論嘛"},{"start":98.405,"end":124.812,"text":"今天為什麼在法庭直播會有民粹的風險為什麼會有檢擊的風險會有證人跟鑑定人不能夠或不敢出來作證的這個風險為什麼會有兒少還有這些婦女團體所提出的風險理由很簡單因為它是一個專業判斷法官今天面對的其實是兩個人三個人之間的一個正義之爭當專業的判斷淪為直播淪為每一個公審的對象的時候這並不是一個妥當的現象"},{"start":125.572,"end":140.29,"text":"不然我來講假設我今天我很重視我的生命安全我要動手術請問我要不要要求我的手術來做全國的直播如果我今天在坐飛機我很重視飛航的安全我要不要要求以後呢開飛機的都要全程直播"},{"start":141.051,"end":163.1,"text":"聽起來好像還有道理啊 公開透明啊但問題是 這就是一種侵犯專業的態度那以後大家會不會開始變成我不要犯錯 我只要按照SOP稍微有點風險的行為我不做 為什麼因為全程在直播那這樣的話呢 就是把這個專業棄於不顧反而是用一種人民直接用眼睛觀看的這種威嚇上的力量然後去影響這整體的進行"},{"start":164.941,"end":193.14,"text":"這跟立法院不一樣立法院的是政治責任立法院要讓人民看到到底有沒有去代表選區的這個人民說話立法院要有多元的討論立法院必須要有政治的責任所以立法院有這一個直播但法庭要處理的是個案的正義它處理的是當事人之間的關係用這樣的一個方式冒然的直播其實就是對當事人的不尊重也是一種非常嚴重的正義的侵害謝謝謝謝沈伯陽"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":18,"blocks":[["沈委員伯洋：（15時50分）謝謝主席，因為這是一個非常複雜的議題，所以我就直接順著剛剛莊瑞雄委員講的繼續往下講。這個畢竟是一個複雜的議題，竟然是用這樣一個「嚕」過去的方式、協商過水的方式來討論，我覺得是期期不可。","我剛剛都有聽整個協商，協商的時候有說這是一個可以增加司法公信力的方式，其實我認為正正相反。因為現在民眾黨所提出的這個案子，最主要是限制在言詞辯論這方面的公開，言詞辯論這方面的公開在引述這些證人或者鑑定人說法的時候，其實就有可能是斟酌在法律上的爭點、證據法則等等之類的。當民眾在看這一些可能經過其他人剪輯過的或者單純這一方面的直播，卻沒有看到前面陳述的時候，他會認為法院怎麼會做出這個判斷？這跟我想的不太一樣！當這個感覺出現的時候未必是增加司法的公信力，所以到底開放的範圍應該是怎麼做，其實很有研討的必要。","當然民眾黨一直在講司改國是會議的時候有講到法庭直播，可能是在文字理解上有點錯誤，明明司改國是會議講的是要研議，研議之後有沒有研議？有啊！研議了一年之後發現認為憲法法庭是目前最適合直播的，所以做了憲法法庭的直播，這就是現在的結論啊！為什麼這一個結論不被接受？應該針對這個結論來討論，今天為什麼在法庭直播會有民粹的風險？為什麼會有剪輯的風險？會有證人跟鑑定人不能夠或不敢出來做證的風險？為什麼會有兒少還有這些婦女團體所提出的風險？理由很簡單，因為它是一個專業判斷，法官今天面對的其實是兩個人、三個人之間的一個正義之爭，當專業的判斷淪為直播、淪為每一個公審對象的時候，這並不是一個妥當的現象。","不然我來講，假設今天我很重視我的生命安全，我要動手術，請問我要不要要求我的手術做全國的直播？如果我今天坐飛機，我很重視飛航的安全，我要不要要求以後開飛機都要全程直播？聽起來好像很有道理，公開透明啊！但問題是，這就是一種侵犯專業的態度，以後大家會不會開始變成我不要犯錯，我只要按照SOP，稍微有點風險的行為我不做，為什麼？因為全程在直播。這樣的話就是把專業棄於不顧，反而是用一種人民直接用眼睛觀看的這種威嚇上的力量去影響整體的進行。","這跟立法院不一樣，立法院是政治責任，立法院要讓人民看到到底有沒有去代表選區的人民說話，立法院要有多元的討論，立法院必須要有政治的責任，所以立法院有直播。但法庭要處理的是個案的正義、處理的是當事人之間的關係，用這樣的一個方式貿然地直播，其實就是對當事人的不尊重，也是一種非常嚴重對正義的侵害。謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝沈伯洋委員的發言。","接下來請吳思瑤委員發言，林國成委員請準備。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":62,"meet_id":"院會-11-3-18","speakers":["韓國瑜","莊瑞雄","沈伯洋","吳思瑤","林國成","陳昭姿","劉書彬","張啓楷","吳秉叡","蔡易餘","鍾佳濱","沈發惠","陳亭妃","黃捷","黃珊珊","王義川","林楚茵","范雲","李柏毅","李坤城","賴瑞隆","林淑芬","陳培瑜","麥玉珍","黃國昌","黃國昌"],"page_start":25,"meetingDate":["2025-06-27"],"gazette_id":"1146201","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1146201_00003"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期第18次會議紀錄","content":"討論事項\n法院組織法修正第八十六條、第九十條、第九十一條、第九十三條及第一百十五條條文─ 完成三\n讀─","agenda_id":"1146201_00003"}}}