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\"以及後續立法院沒有積極處理這個平埔族群原住民的修法所以現行的台灣的這個法定原住民族與尚未被認定為法定原住民族的其他台灣南島語系民族這個兩者他覺得是\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 109.251, \"end\": 109.351, \"score\": 0.926}, {\"word\": \"及\", \"start\": 109.351, \"end\": 109.751, \"score\": 0.928}, {\"word\": \"後\", \"start\": 109.751, \"end\": 109.911, \"score\": 0.808}, {\"word\": \"續\"}, {\"word\": \"立\", \"start\": 109.911, \"end\": 110.092, \"score\": 0.966}, {\"word\": \"法\", \"start\": 110.092, \"end\": 110.252, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"院\", \"start\": 110.252, \"end\": 110.792, \"score\": 0.959}, {\"word\": \"沒\", \"start\": 110.792, \"end\": 110.912, \"score\": 0.812}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 110.912, \"end\": 111.732, \"score\": 0.918}, {\"word\": \"積\"}, {\"word\": \"極\"}, {\"word\": \"處\"}, {\"word\": \"理\", \"start\": 111.732, \"end\": 112.213, \"score\": 0.94}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"平\", \"start\": 112.213, \"end\": 112.453, \"score\": 0.904}, {\"word\": \"埔\", \"start\": 112.453, \"end\": 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0.845}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"主\", \"start\": 415.595, \"end\": 415.775, \"score\": 0.824}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 415.775, \"end\": 416.357, \"score\": 0.92}, {\"word\": \"主\", \"start\": 416.357, \"end\": 416.477, \"score\": 0.831}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 416.477, \"end\": 416.617, \"score\": 0.833}, {\"word\": \"加\", \"start\": 416.617, \"end\": 416.858, \"score\": 0.839}, {\"word\": \"油\", \"start\": 416.858, \"end\": 417.178, \"score\": 0.929}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"主\", \"start\": 417.178, \"end\": 417.238, \"score\": 0.667}, {\"word\": \"席\", \"start\": 417.238, \"end\": 417.258, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 417.258, \"end\": 417.279, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"林\", \"start\": 417.279, \"end\": 417.539, \"score\": 0.88}, {\"word\": \"益\", \"start\": 417.539, \"end\": 417.559, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"菁\", \"start\": 417.559, \"end\": 417.639, \"score\": 0.668}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 417.639, \"end\": 417.659, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"下\", \"start\": 417.659, \"end\": 417.78, \"score\": 0.833}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 417.78, \"end\": 417.8, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"位\", \"start\": 417.8, \"end\": 417.86, \"score\": 0.642}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 417.86, \"end\": 417.88, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"請\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:05,407 --> 00:00:08,311\n介主席有請園民會曾主委曾主委有請\n\n2\n00:00:15,647 --> 00:00:42,648\n主委早首先先謝謝主委履行承諾在6月6號特別有來台南與我們台南的立委跟在地的西拉伊亞族親們來舉行座談會那本席要強調歷史一再的錯誤不代表就能忽略部分群體的權利那行政的怠惰跟立法進度的延宕也不能以此當作藉口讓族親們在身份的認定上孤立無援\n\n3\n00:00:45,302 --> 00:01:09,473\n那本席有看到就國民黨的立委他的法律提案說明中有兩大謬誤第一他說自清朝日治時代以來就有生番熟番的區別所以世代與民客這個生活領域相同的平埔原住民族還有這個自認與生活這個跟生番\n\n4\n00:01:10,214 --> 00:01:20,729\n就是說跟他們身分地內的山地原住民跟平地原住民有別喔這是一大錯誤齁那這個大的錯誤齁在台灣的那個南島語系\n\n5\n00:01:26,328 --> 00:01:48,571\n民族他並不因為這個殖民者的殖民程度有別這個就在於失去被認定同為這個台灣南岛語系的一員嘛這個主委你認定嗎是是好那第二個這個委員他有指出說因為國大的修憲喔他有明確排除這個平埔原住民族群\n\n6\n00:01:49,251 --> 00:02:07,120\n以及後續立法院沒有積極處理這個平埔族群原住民的修法所以現行的台灣的這個法定原住民族與尚未被認定為法定原住民族的其他台灣南島語系民族這個兩者他覺得是\n\n7\n00:02:07,740 --> 00:02:32,601\n分別的獨立的族群而且互不隸屬我覺得這又是另外一大錯誤那錯在什麼地方錯在立法的消極不應該來決定所謂的族群別所以本席反覆強調血緣是與生俱來的那歷史上的立法錯誤即便是這樣歷史上的立法錯誤可是它\n\n8\n00:02:33,422 --> 00:02:52,147\n一度他排除了這個平埔族成為所謂的法定原住民的身份可是憲法法庭給立法者補考的機會所以我們這個時候就不該再以過去立法的消極來再次錯誤推斷這個族群分別獨立且不隸屬\n\n9\n00:02:54,019 --> 00:03:09,452\n那好那我現在要呼籲朝野的立委就是說我們必須要真的要理性來審理法案然後盡速讓族親們得到應有的這個身份認定那而不是說借法案的審查來分化挑撥這個族群\n\n10\n00:03:13,254 --> 00:03:27,061\n針對以上本席所說的有委員認定這個平埔族群原住民不是原住民而且還要吝嗇所謂的平埔族群委員會這個部分不曉得主委你怎麼看謝謝委員我想是這樣在憲法的判決也很明確的講\n\n11\n00:03:36,894 --> 00:04:04,287\n只要是他有一定的這個不管是語言習俗傳統等等歷史記錄他有一定的這個可以證明他是台灣我們南島語系的這個族群的話就必須是我們的就是也是台灣的原住民只不過是因為他歷史上的關係他比較沒有辦法那麼快登記當然我們還是要站在現在現在站在政府的立場尤其是延民會當然\n\n12\n00:04:05,647 --> 00:04:28,772\n要承認而且要給予他應有的這個尊嚴跟地位我們本來就是要做的只是做的比較慢一點所以未來平埔族應該也隸屬於所謂原住民委員會來管對不對是是我們服務的對象那接著本席想要借一個假設的例子來跟您探討限期登記這個規範的瑕疵\n\n13\n00:04:31,172 --> 00:04:40,458\n有一位新來的青年那他在姓友的草案你們院版的這個版本通過之後沒有在期限內完成足別身份登記後來他結婚生子那小孩長大之後有登記原住民這個身份別的意願\n\n14\n00:04:47,543 --> 00:05:08,883\n然後想要再藉著他在日治時代這個祖先的戶籍登記去申請祖別的登記請問這樣他錯過現期登記的這個希拉雅的孩童有著族群的自我認同意識這樣子他還能繼續進行登記嗎那如果不能登記是不是現期登記這個就是一個很大的瑕疵主委\n\n15\n00:05:12,932 --> 00:05:39,340\n跟委員報告這個五年是我們現在的草案的五年那當然我們在討論的過程這個五年是不是要延長到十年或者是十五年二十年我們還可以再討論我們是因為現在還沒定案但是一個法律總要先定一個要有一個時間性怕他的前例會延宕我們就定五年但是如果委員們覺得五年太短那當然我們都可以討論可是為什麼一定要有一個期限\n\n16\n00:05:40,200 --> 00:05:55,959\n因為我們希望在這個短暫的這個說五年也不短至少說讓我們可以明確的掌握到到底登記的我們的這個平埔族群有多少人我們好做內部的資源的調整比如說這個資源一定會調整因為\n\n17\n00:05:57,020 --> 00:06:18,655\n如果平埔族群多當然這個用的資源政府一定要盤點這個資源所以是因為這個原因才會希望他在五年內我們很快能夠知道多少但是我們知道如果五年委員覺得說還有很多的人他還是沒有辦法那麼快的就能夠知道自己是平埔族然後趕快來登記我們可以討論這個期限可以延長嗎\n\n18\n00:06:22,358 --> 00:06:51,668\n好其次的問題我們心火暗的時候再來講嘛好我最後要講一句話有一本書叫沒有名字的人這本書有一句話說族群的邊界與框架是權利者認定的那主委我們雖然握有立法跟這個行政的權利可是我們絕不能重蹈這過去立法者所犯下的錯誤所以本席要最後強調已經形塑出文化的族群就應該被認可所以主委讓我們一起陪沒有名字的人\n\n19\n00:06:52,449 --> 00:06:57,880\n來走好身份認定這條路好嗎好好謝謝主委主委加油謝謝主席好謝謝林益菁委員下一位我們請\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n5407\t8311\t介主席 有請園民會曾主委曾主委有請\n15647\t42648\t主委早 首先先謝謝主委履行承諾在6月6號特別有來台南與我們台南的立委跟在地的西拉伊亞族親們來舉行座談會那本席要強調歷史一再的錯誤不代表就能忽略部分群體的權利那行政的怠惰跟立法進度的延宕也不能以此當作藉口讓族親們在身份的認定上孤立無援\n45302\t69473\t那本席有看到就國民黨的立委他的法律提案說明中有兩大謬誤第一他說自清朝日治時代以來就有生番熟番的區別所以世代與民客這個生活領域相同的平埔原住民族還有這個自認與生活這個跟生番\n70214\t80729\t就是說跟他們身分地內的山地原住民跟平地原住民有別喔這是一大錯誤齁那這個大的錯誤齁在台灣的那個南島語系\n86328\t108571\t民族他並不因為這個殖民者的殖民程度有別這個就在於失去被認定同為這個台灣南岛語系的一員嘛這個主委你認定嗎是是好那第二個這個委員他有指出說因為國大的修憲喔他有明確排除這個平埔原住民族群\n109251\t127120\t以及後續立法院沒有積極處理這個平埔族群原住民的修法所以現行的台灣的這個法定原住民族與尚未被認定為法定原住民族的其他台灣南島語系民族這個兩者他覺得是\n127740\t152601\t分別的獨立的族群而且互不隸屬我覺得這又是另外一大錯誤那錯在什麼地方 錯在立法的消極不應該來決定所謂的族群別所以本席反覆強調血緣是與生俱來的那歷史上的立法錯誤即便是這樣歷史上的立法錯誤可是它\n153422\t172147\t一度他排除了這個平埔族成為所謂的法定原住民的身份可是憲法法庭給立法者補考的機會所以我們這個時候就不該再以過去立法的消極來再次錯誤推斷這個族群分別獨立且不隸屬\n174019\t189452\t那好 那我現在要呼籲朝野的立委就是說我們必須要真的要理性來審理法案然後盡速讓族親們得到應有的這個身份認定那而不是說借法案的審查來分化挑撥這個族群\n193254\t207061\t針對以上本席所說的有委員認定這個平埔族群原住民不是原住民而且還要吝嗇所謂的平埔族群委員會這個部分不曉得主委你怎麼看謝謝委員我想是這樣在憲法的判決也很明確的講\n216894\t244287\t只要是他有一定的這個不管是語言習俗傳統等等歷史記錄他有一定的這個可以證明他是台灣我們南島語系的這個族群的話就必須是我們的就是也是台灣的原住民只不過是因為他歷史上的關係他比較沒有辦法那麼快登記當然我們還是要站在現在現在站在政府的立場尤其是延民會當然\n245647\t268772\t要承認而且要給予他應有的這個尊嚴跟地位我們本來就是要做的只是做的比較慢一點所以未來平埔族應該也隸屬於所謂原住民委員會來管對不對是 是我們服務的對象那接著本席想要借一個假設的例子來跟您探討限期登記這個規範的瑕疵\n271172\t280458\t有一位新來的青年那他在姓友的草案你們院版的這個版本通過之後沒有在期限內完成足別身份登記後來他結婚生子那小孩長大之後有登記原住民這個身份別的意願\n287543\t308883\t然後想要再藉著他在日治時代這個祖先的戶籍登記去申請祖別的登記請問這樣他錯過現期登記的這個希拉雅的孩童有著族群的自我認同意識這樣子他還能繼續進行登記嗎那如果不能登記是不是現期登記這個就是一個很大的瑕疵 主委\n312932\t339340\t跟委員報告這個五年是我們現在的草案的五年那當然我們在討論的過程這個五年是不是要延長到十年或者是十五年二十年我們還可以再討論我們是因為現在還沒定案但是一個法律總要先定一個要有一個時間性怕他的前例會延宕我們就定五年但是如果委員們覺得五年太短那當然我們都可以討論可是為什麼一定要有一個期限\n340200\t355959\t因為我們希望在這個短暫的這個說五年也不短至少說讓我們可以明確的掌握到到底登記的我們的這個平埔族群有多少人我們好做內部的資源的調整比如說這個資源一定會調整因為\n357020\t378655\t如果平埔族群多當然這個用的資源政府一定要盤點這個資源所以是因為這個原因才會希望他在五年內我們很快能夠知道多少但是我們知道如果五年委員覺得說還有很多的人他還是沒有辦法那麼快的就能夠知道自己是平埔族然後趕快來登記我們可以討論這個期限可以延長嗎\n382358\t411668\t好 其次的問題我們心火暗的時候再來講嘛好 我最後要講一句話 有一本書叫沒有名字的人這本書有一句話說族群的邊界與框架是權利者認定的那主委我們雖然握有立法跟這個行政的權利可是我們絕不能重蹈這過去立法者所犯下的錯誤所以本席要最後強調已經形塑出文化的族群就應該被認可所以主委讓我們一起陪沒有名字的人\n412449\t417880\t來走好身份認定這條路好嗎好好謝謝主委主委加油謝謝主席好謝謝林益菁委員下一位我們請\n","txt":"介主席 有請園民會曾主委曾主委有請\n主委早 首先先謝謝主委履行承諾在6月6號特別有來台南與我們台南的立委跟在地的西拉伊亞族親們來舉行座談會那本席要強調歷史一再的錯誤不代表就能忽略部分群體的權利那行政的怠惰跟立法進度的延宕也不能以此當作藉口讓族親們在身份的認定上孤立無援\n那本席有看到就國民黨的立委他的法律提案說明中有兩大謬誤第一他說自清朝日治時代以來就有生番熟番的區別所以世代與民客這個生活領域相同的平埔原住民族還有這個自認與生活這個跟生番\n就是說跟他們身分地內的山地原住民跟平地原住民有別喔這是一大錯誤齁那這個大的錯誤齁在台灣的那個南島語系\n民族他並不因為這個殖民者的殖民程度有別這個就在於失去被認定同為這個台灣南岛語系的一員嘛這個主委你認定嗎是是好那第二個這個委員他有指出說因為國大的修憲喔他有明確排除這個平埔原住民族群\n以及後續立法院沒有積極處理這個平埔族群原住民的修法所以現行的台灣的這個法定原住民族與尚未被認定為法定原住民族的其他台灣南島語系民族這個兩者他覺得是\n分別的獨立的族群而且互不隸屬我覺得這又是另外一大錯誤那錯在什麼地方 錯在立法的消極不應該來決定所謂的族群別所以本席反覆強調血緣是與生俱來的那歷史上的立法錯誤即便是這樣歷史上的立法錯誤可是它\n一度他排除了這個平埔族成為所謂的法定原住民的身份可是憲法法庭給立法者補考的機會所以我們這個時候就不該再以過去立法的消極來再次錯誤推斷這個族群分別獨立且不隸屬\n那好 那我現在要呼籲朝野的立委就是說我們必須要真的要理性來審理法案然後盡速讓族親們得到應有的這個身份認定那而不是說借法案的審查來分化挑撥這個族群\n針對以上本席所說的有委員認定這個平埔族群原住民不是原住民而且還要吝嗇所謂的平埔族群委員會這個部分不曉得主委你怎麼看謝謝委員我想是這樣在憲法的判決也很明確的講\n只要是他有一定的這個不管是語言習俗傳統等等歷史記錄他有一定的這個可以證明他是台灣我們南島語系的這個族群的話就必須是我們的就是也是台灣的原住民只不過是因為他歷史上的關係他比較沒有辦法那麼快登記當然我們還是要站在現在現在站在政府的立場尤其是延民會當然\n要承認而且要給予他應有的這個尊嚴跟地位我們本來就是要做的只是做的比較慢一點所以未來平埔族應該也隸屬於所謂原住民委員會來管對不對是 是我們服務的對象那接著本席想要借一個假設的例子來跟您探討限期登記這個規範的瑕疵\n有一位新來的青年那他在姓友的草案你們院版的這個版本通過之後沒有在期限內完成足別身份登記後來他結婚生子那小孩長大之後有登記原住民這個身份別的意願\n然後想要再藉著他在日治時代這個祖先的戶籍登記去申請祖別的登記請問這樣他錯過現期登記的這個希拉雅的孩童有著族群的自我認同意識這樣子他還能繼續進行登記嗎那如果不能登記是不是現期登記這個就是一個很大的瑕疵 主委\n跟委員報告這個五年是我們現在的草案的五年那當然我們在討論的過程這個五年是不是要延長到十年或者是十五年二十年我們還可以再討論我們是因為現在還沒定案但是一個法律總要先定一個要有一個時間性怕他的前例會延宕我們就定五年但是如果委員們覺得五年太短那當然我們都可以討論可是為什麼一定要有一個期限\n因為我們希望在這個短暫的這個說五年也不短至少說讓我們可以明確的掌握到到底登記的我們的這個平埔族群有多少人我們好做內部的資源的調整比如說這個資源一定會調整因為\n如果平埔族群多當然這個用的資源政府一定要盤點這個資源所以是因為這個原因才會希望他在五年內我們很快能夠知道多少但是我們知道如果五年委員覺得說還有很多的人他還是沒有辦法那麼快的就能夠知道自己是平埔族然後趕快來登記我們可以討論這個期限可以延長嗎\n好 其次的問題我們心火暗的時候再來講嘛好 我最後要講一句話 有一本書叫沒有名字的人這本書有一句話說族群的邊界與框架是權利者認定的那主委我們雖然握有立法跟這個行政的權利可是我們絕不能重蹈這過去立法者所犯下的錯誤所以本席要最後強調已經形塑出文化的族群就應該被認可所以主委讓我們一起陪沒有名字的人\n來走好身份認定這條路好嗎好好謝謝主委主委加油謝謝主席好謝謝林益菁委員下一位我們請\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:05.407 --> 00:08.311\n介主席有請園民會曾主委曾主委有請\n\n00:15.647 --> 00:42.648\n主委早首先先謝謝主委履行承諾在6月6號特別有來台南與我們台南的立委跟在地的西拉伊亞族親們來舉行座談會那本席要強調歷史一再的錯誤不代表就能忽略部分群體的權利那行政的怠惰跟立法進度的延宕也不能以此當作藉口讓族親們在身份的認定上孤立無援\n\n00:45.302 --> 01:09.473\n那本席有看到就國民黨的立委他的法律提案說明中有兩大謬誤第一他說自清朝日治時代以來就有生番熟番的區別所以世代與民客這個生活領域相同的平埔原住民族還有這個自認與生活這個跟生番\n\n01:10.214 --> 01:20.729\n就是說跟他們身分地內的山地原住民跟平地原住民有別喔這是一大錯誤齁那這個大的錯誤齁在台灣的那個南島語系\n\n01:26.328 --> 01:48.571\n民族他並不因為這個殖民者的殖民程度有別這個就在於失去被認定同為這個台灣南岛語系的一員嘛這個主委你認定嗎是是好那第二個這個委員他有指出說因為國大的修憲喔他有明確排除這個平埔原住民族群\n\n01:49.251 --> 02:07.120\n以及後續立法院沒有積極處理這個平埔族群原住民的修法所以現行的台灣的這個法定原住民族與尚未被認定為法定原住民族的其他台灣南島語系民族這個兩者他覺得是\n\n02:07.740 --> 02:32.601\n分別的獨立的族群而且互不隸屬我覺得這又是另外一大錯誤那錯在什麼地方錯在立法的消極不應該來決定所謂的族群別所以本席反覆強調血緣是與生俱來的那歷史上的立法錯誤即便是這樣歷史上的立法錯誤可是它\n\n02:33.422 --> 02:52.147\n一度他排除了這個平埔族成為所謂的法定原住民的身份可是憲法法庭給立法者補考的機會所以我們這個時候就不該再以過去立法的消極來再次錯誤推斷這個族群分別獨立且不隸屬\n\n02:54.019 --> 03:09.452\n那好那我現在要呼籲朝野的立委就是說我們必須要真的要理性來審理法案然後盡速讓族親們得到應有的這個身份認定那而不是說借法案的審查來分化挑撥這個族群\n\n03:13.254 --> 03:27.061\n針對以上本席所說的有委員認定這個平埔族群原住民不是原住民而且還要吝嗇所謂的平埔族群委員會這個部分不曉得主委你怎麼看謝謝委員我想是這樣在憲法的判決也很明確的講\n\n03:36.894 --> 04:04.287\n只要是他有一定的這個不管是語言習俗傳統等等歷史記錄他有一定的這個可以證明他是台灣我們南島語系的這個族群的話就必須是我們的就是也是台灣的原住民只不過是因為他歷史上的關係他比較沒有辦法那麼快登記當然我們還是要站在現在現在站在政府的立場尤其是延民會當然\n\n04:05.647 --> 04:28.772\n要承認而且要給予他應有的這個尊嚴跟地位我們本來就是要做的只是做的比較慢一點所以未來平埔族應該也隸屬於所謂原住民委員會來管對不對是是我們服務的對象那接著本席想要借一個假設的例子來跟您探討限期登記這個規範的瑕疵\n\n04:31.172 --> 04:40.458\n有一位新來的青年那他在姓友的草案你們院版的這個版本通過之後沒有在期限內完成足別身份登記後來他結婚生子那小孩長大之後有登記原住民這個身份別的意願\n\n04:47.543 --> 05:08.883\n然後想要再藉著他在日治時代這個祖先的戶籍登記去申請祖別的登記請問這樣他錯過現期登記的這個希拉雅的孩童有著族群的自我認同意識這樣子他還能繼續進行登記嗎那如果不能登記是不是現期登記這個就是一個很大的瑕疵主委\n\n05:12.932 --> 05:39.340\n跟委員報告這個五年是我們現在的草案的五年那當然我們在討論的過程這個五年是不是要延長到十年或者是十五年二十年我們還可以再討論我們是因為現在還沒定案但是一個法律總要先定一個要有一個時間性怕他的前例會延宕我們就定五年但是如果委員們覺得五年太短那當然我們都可以討論可是為什麼一定要有一個期限\n\n05:40.200 --> 05:55.959\n因為我們希望在這個短暫的這個說五年也不短至少說讓我們可以明確的掌握到到底登記的我們的這個平埔族群有多少人我們好做內部的資源的調整比如說這個資源一定會調整因為\n\n05:57.020 --> 06:18.655\n如果平埔族群多當然這個用的資源政府一定要盤點這個資源所以是因為這個原因才會希望他在五年內我們很快能夠知道多少但是我們知道如果五年委員覺得說還有很多的人他還是沒有辦法那麼快的就能夠知道自己是平埔族然後趕快來登記我們可以討論這個期限可以延長嗎\n\n06:22.358 --> 06:51.668\n好其次的問題我們心火暗的時候再來講嘛好我最後要講一句話有一本書叫沒有名字的人這本書有一句話說族群的邊界與框架是權利者認定的那主委我們雖然握有立法跟這個行政的權利可是我們絕不能重蹈這過去立法者所犯下的錯誤所以本席要最後強調已經形塑出文化的族群就應該被認可所以主委讓我們一起陪沒有名字的人\n\n06:52.449 --> 06:57.880\n來走好身份認定這條路好嗎好好謝謝主委主委加油謝謝主席好謝謝林益菁委員下一位我們請\n\n","segments":[{"start":5.407,"end":8.311,"text":"介主席 有請園民會曾主委曾主委有請"},{"start":15.647,"end":42.648,"text":"主委早 首先先謝謝主委履行承諾在6月6號特別有來台南與我們台南的立委跟在地的西拉伊亞族親們來舉行座談會那本席要強調歷史一再的錯誤不代表就能忽略部分群體的權利那行政的怠惰跟立法進度的延宕也不能以此當作藉口讓族親們在身份的認定上孤立無援"},{"start":45.302,"end":69.473,"text":"那本席有看到就國民黨的立委他的法律提案說明中有兩大謬誤第一他說自清朝日治時代以來就有生番熟番的區別所以世代與民客這個生活領域相同的平埔原住民族還有這個自認與生活這個跟生番"},{"start":70.214,"end":80.729,"text":"就是說跟他們身分地內的山地原住民跟平地原住民有別喔這是一大錯誤齁那這個大的錯誤齁在台灣的那個南島語系"},{"start":86.328,"end":108.571,"text":"民族他並不因為這個殖民者的殖民程度有別這個就在於失去被認定同為這個台灣南岛語系的一員嘛這個主委你認定嗎是是好那第二個這個委員他有指出說因為國大的修憲喔他有明確排除這個平埔原住民族群"},{"start":109.251,"end":127.12,"text":"以及後續立法院沒有積極處理這個平埔族群原住民的修法所以現行的台灣的這個法定原住民族與尚未被認定為法定原住民族的其他台灣南島語系民族這個兩者他覺得是"},{"start":127.74,"end":152.601,"text":"分別的獨立的族群而且互不隸屬我覺得這又是另外一大錯誤那錯在什麼地方 錯在立法的消極不應該來決定所謂的族群別所以本席反覆強調血緣是與生俱來的那歷史上的立法錯誤即便是這樣歷史上的立法錯誤可是它"},{"start":153.422,"end":172.147,"text":"一度他排除了這個平埔族成為所謂的法定原住民的身份可是憲法法庭給立法者補考的機會所以我們這個時候就不該再以過去立法的消極來再次錯誤推斷這個族群分別獨立且不隸屬"},{"start":174.019,"end":189.452,"text":"那好 那我現在要呼籲朝野的立委就是說我們必須要真的要理性來審理法案然後盡速讓族親們得到應有的這個身份認定那而不是說借法案的審查來分化挑撥這個族群"},{"start":193.254,"end":207.061,"text":"針對以上本席所說的有委員認定這個平埔族群原住民不是原住民而且還要吝嗇所謂的平埔族群委員會這個部分不曉得主委你怎麼看謝謝委員我想是這樣在憲法的判決也很明確的講"},{"start":216.894,"end":244.287,"text":"只要是他有一定的這個不管是語言習俗傳統等等歷史記錄他有一定的這個可以證明他是台灣我們南島語系的這個族群的話就必須是我們的就是也是台灣的原住民只不過是因為他歷史上的關係他比較沒有辦法那麼快登記當然我們還是要站在現在現在站在政府的立場尤其是延民會當然"},{"start":245.647,"end":268.772,"text":"要承認而且要給予他應有的這個尊嚴跟地位我們本來就是要做的只是做的比較慢一點所以未來平埔族應該也隸屬於所謂原住民委員會來管對不對是 是我們服務的對象那接著本席想要借一個假設的例子來跟您探討限期登記這個規範的瑕疵"},{"start":271.172,"end":280.458,"text":"有一位新來的青年那他在姓友的草案你們院版的這個版本通過之後沒有在期限內完成足別身份登記後來他結婚生子那小孩長大之後有登記原住民這個身份別的意願"},{"start":287.543,"end":308.883,"text":"然後想要再藉著他在日治時代這個祖先的戶籍登記去申請祖別的登記請問這樣他錯過現期登記的這個希拉雅的孩童有著族群的自我認同意識這樣子他還能繼續進行登記嗎那如果不能登記是不是現期登記這個就是一個很大的瑕疵 主委"},{"start":312.932,"end":339.34,"text":"跟委員報告這個五年是我們現在的草案的五年那當然我們在討論的過程這個五年是不是要延長到十年或者是十五年二十年我們還可以再討論我們是因為現在還沒定案但是一個法律總要先定一個要有一個時間性怕他的前例會延宕我們就定五年但是如果委員們覺得五年太短那當然我們都可以討論可是為什麼一定要有一個期限"},{"start":340.2,"end":355.959,"text":"因為我們希望在這個短暫的這個說五年也不短至少說讓我們可以明確的掌握到到底登記的我們的這個平埔族群有多少人我們好做內部的資源的調整比如說這個資源一定會調整因為"},{"start":357.02,"end":378.655,"text":"如果平埔族群多當然這個用的資源政府一定要盤點這個資源所以是因為這個原因才會希望他在五年內我們很快能夠知道多少但是我們知道如果五年委員覺得說還有很多的人他還是沒有辦法那麼快的就能夠知道自己是平埔族然後趕快來登記我們可以討論這個期限可以延長嗎"},{"start":382.358,"end":411.668,"text":"好 其次的問題我們心火暗的時候再來講嘛好 我最後要講一句話 有一本書叫沒有名字的人這本書有一句話說族群的邊界與框架是權利者認定的那主委我們雖然握有立法跟這個行政的權利可是我們絕不能重蹈這過去立法者所犯下的錯誤所以本席要最後強調已經形塑出文化的族群就應該被認可所以主委讓我們一起陪沒有名字的人"},{"start":412.449,"end":417.88,"text":"來走好身份認定這條路好嗎好好謝謝主委主委加油謝謝主席好謝謝林益菁委員下一位我們請"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":142,"blocks":[["林委員宜瑾：（9時17分）謝謝主席。有請原民會曾主委。"],["主席：有請曾主委。"],["曾主任委員智勇：委員好。"],["林委員宜瑾：主委早。"],["曾主任委員智勇：早。"],["林委員宜瑾：首先先謝謝主委履行承諾，在6月6號特別來臺南與臺南的立委，跟在地的西拉雅族群們舉行座談會。本席要強調，歷史一再錯誤不代表就能忽略部分群體的權利，也不能以行政怠惰跟立法進度延宕當作藉口，讓族群們在身分的認定上孤立無援。本席有看到國民黨立委的法律提案說明有兩大謬誤：第一、他說自清朝、日治時代以來，就有生番、熟番的區別，所以世代與閩、客生活領域相同的平埔原住民族，自與生活於生番地內之山地原住民跟平地原住民有別，這也算是一大錯誤。臺灣的南島語系民族並不因殖民者的殖民程度有別，就失去被認定同為南島語系的一員，主委認同嗎？"],["曾主任委員智勇：是。"],["林委員宜瑾：第二、這個委員指出，因為國大修憲明確排除平埔原住民族群，以及後續立法院沒有積極處理平埔原住民族群的修法，所以他覺得現行臺灣法定原住民族與尚未被認定為法定原住民族的其他南島語系民族，這兩者是分別獨立的族群而且互不隸屬。這又是另外一大錯誤，錯在什麼地方？錯在不應該以立法的消極來決定所謂的族群別，所以本席反覆強調，血緣是與生俱來的，即便歷史上的立法錯誤一度排除平埔族擁有所謂法定原住民的身分，所幸憲法法庭給立法者補考的機會，所以我們這個時候就不該再以過去立法的消極，再次錯誤推斷族群分別獨立且不隸屬。","我現在要呼籲朝野立委，我們真的必須要理性審理法案，儘速讓族群們得到應有的身分認定，而不是藉法案的審查來分化、挑撥族群。針對以上本席所說的，有委員認定平埔族群原住民不是原住民，而且還要另設所謂的平埔族群委員會，這個部分主委怎麼看？"],["曾主任委員智勇：謝謝委員。我想是這樣，憲法判決也很明確的講，不管是語言、習俗、傳統或歷史紀錄等等，只要有一定的、可以證明是臺灣南島語系族群的話，也是臺灣的原住民，只不過是因為歷史上的關係，比較沒有辦法那麼快登記。我們站在政府的立場，尤其是原民會，當然要承認而且給予他應有的尊嚴跟地位，這是我們本來就要做的，只是做得比較慢一點。"],["林委員宜瑾：所以未來平埔族應該也隸屬於原住民族委員會來管，對不對？"],["曾主任委員智勇：是，是我們服務的對象。"],["林委員宜瑾：好，接著本席想要藉一個假設的例子，跟您探討限期登記這個規範的瑕疵。假設有一位西拉雅青年，在現有的草案，即院版的版本通過之後，沒有在期限內完成族別身分登記，後來他結婚生子，小孩長大之後有登記原住民身分別的意願，想要藉著他的祖先在日治時代的戶籍登記去申請族別登記，請問錯過限期登記的西拉雅孩童，有著族群的自我認同意識，這樣他還能繼續進行登記嗎？如果不能登記，是不是限期登記就是一個很大的瑕疵？"],["曾主任委員智勇：這個5年是現在的草案5年，當然我們在討論的過程中，這個5年是不是要延長到10年或者15年、20年，還可以再討論，因為現在還沒定案。但是一個法律總要先訂一個時間，怕他的權利會延宕，我們就訂5年，如果委員們覺得5年太短，當然都可以討論，好不好？"],["林委員宜瑾：可是為什麼一定要有一個期限？"],["曾主任委員智勇：因為我們希望在這個短暫的……5年也不短，至少讓我們可以明確掌握到到底登記的平埔族群有多少人，我們好做內部資源調整。資源一定會調整，如果平埔族群多，當然政府一定要盤點資源，所以是因為這個原因，才會希望他在5年內登記，好讓我們很快能夠知道有多少。如果委員覺得有很多人還是沒有辦法那麼快地就能夠知道自己是平埔族，然後趕快來登記，我們可以討論，這個期限可以再延。"],["林委員宜瑾：好，有關期限的問題，我們審法案的時候再來討論。"],["曾主任委員智勇：好。"],["林委員宜瑾：我最後要講一句話，有一本書叫<沒有名字的人>，這本書有一句話說：「族群的邊界與框架是權力者認定的」，我們雖然握有立法跟行政的權力，可是絕不能重蹈過去立法者所犯下的錯誤，所以本席最後要強調，已經形塑出文化的族群就應該被認可，讓我們一起陪沒有名字的人來走好身分認定這條路，好嗎？"],["曾主任委員智勇：好，謝謝。"],["林委員宜瑾：謝謝主委。主委，加油！"],["曾主任委員智勇：謝謝。"],["林委員宜瑾：謝謝主席。"],["主席：謝謝林宜瑾委員。","下一位請王美惠委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":202,"meet_id":"委員會-11-3-15-28","speakers":["牛煦庭","林宜瑾","王美惠","黃捷","李柏毅","張宏陸","許宇甄","高金素梅","吳琪銘","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","麥玉珍","徐欣瑩","張智倫","蘇巧慧","丁學忠"],"page_start":137,"meetingDate":["2025-06-30"],"gazette_id":"1146401","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1146401_00004"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期內政委員會第28次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、審查行政院函請審議「平埔原住民族群身分法草案」；二、審查委員林宜瑾等22人擬具「平\n埔原住民族群身分法草案」案；三、審查委員賴惠員等21人擬具「平埔原住民族群身分法草案」\n案","agenda_id":"1146401_00003"}}}