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Tahovecahe等18人擬具「社會救助法第五條之二、第十一條及第二十一條條文修正草案」案。\n十三、委員楊瓊瓔等21人擬具「社會救助法第十一條條文修正草案」案。\n十四、委員萬美玲等20人擬具「社會救助法第四條及第十一條條文修正草案」案。\n十五、委員林月琴等19人擬具「社會救助法部分條文修正草案」案。\n十六、委員楊曜等24人擬具「社會救助法第十六條條文修正草案」案。\n十七、委員馬文君等20人擬具「社會救助法第十一條條文修正草案」案。\n十八、委員葉元之等21人擬具「社會救助法第十一條條文修正草案」案。\n十九、委員羅智強等18人擬具「社會救助法第十一條及第十六條條文修正草案」案。\n二十、委員何欣純等17人擬具「社會救助法部分條文修正草案」案。\n二十一、委員劉建國等18人擬具「社會救助法部分條文修正草案」案。\n二十二、委員林楚茵等18人擬具「社會救助法第十六條條文修正草案」案。\n二十三、委員羅廷瑋等16人擬具「社會救助法部分條文修正草案」案。\n二十四、委員邱若華等17人擬具「社會救助法第十一條條文修正草案」案。\n二十五、委員陳亭妃等16人擬具「社會救助法第二十四條條文修正草案」案。\n二十六、委員吳沛憶等16人擬具「社會救助法部分條文修正草案」案。\n二十七、委員邱鎮軍等24人擬具「社會救助法第五條之二條文修正草案」案。\n二十八、委員游顥等17人擬具「社會救助法第五條之一及第五條之二條文修正草案」案。\n二十九、委員翁曉玲等16人擬具「社會救助法第五條之二條文修正草案」案。\n三十、委員馬文君等16人擬具「社會救助法第五條之二條文修正草案」案。\n【僅詢答】）","type":"Clip","date":"2025-07-07","start_time":"2025-07-07T10:21:34+08:00","end_time":"2025-07-07T10:34:17+08:00","duration":763,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第3會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第19次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":3,"sessionTimes":19,"committees":[26],"id":"委員會-11-3-26-19"},"features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"transcript":{"id":"163009","pyannote":{"name":"ronny","tool":"pyannote","data":{"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/163009","tool":"pyannote","id":"163009-pyannote"},"job_id":"IyQM2lc4eBXNT23M","queued_at":"2025-07-07 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{\"word\": \"槌\"}, {\"word\": \"醒\", \"start\": 762.287, \"end\": 762.487, \"score\": 0.9}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 762.487, \"end\": 762.507, \"score\": 0.866}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:08,973 --> 00:00:14,315\n謝謝謝謝主席也謝謝各位委員還有官員首先我也想先請這個衛福部部長來請部長\n\n2\n00:00:21,412 --> 00:00:43,458\n我剛聽到很多我們其他女性委員在關注同樣的事情所以我當然也想要來請教部長這個新聞上禮拜鬧得非常的大台大婦產科名醫鄭文芳棄保潛逃結果台大醫院院長只有簡單的說一句說真的是台大之恥\n\n3\n00:00:44,578 --> 00:01:12,712\n醫界之恥可是我盤點了一下我們這過去幾個月所面對的案件實在是太多了多到我還要一一去細數這個包括前婦產科醫學會理事長的性騷事件這個氣泡潛逃的性侵狼醫以及我們台大的住院醫師黃姓住院醫師被一審判決確定還有一位台大的骨科教授性騷女研究助理藥廠的\n\n4\n00:01:14,153 --> 00:01:32,513\n那最近也才被輕輕放下緩刑三年你知道這所有的事情共通點是什麼嗎就是整個過程中衛福部跟台大是毫無作為毫無作為他們被迫這些不管是病患或者是他們的下屬的醫師還繼續的跟他們相處\n\n5\n00:01:35,356 --> 00:01:53,865\n可是我們現在在衛黃委員會我相信各位對於幼保人員對於老師連計程車司機我們都是嚴格的要求而且很積極的為可能會接觸到他們的人搭起一道防護牆我現在就來跟你講這件事有多誇張我們來看\n\n6\n00:01:58,750 --> 00:02:02,392\n鄭文芳他這個強制性交未遂是在20202021年案發齁2023年3月有立委出來喔還是執政黨立委帶著好幾個受害人開記者會譴責這件事情2023年3月\n\n7\n00:02:16,657 --> 00:02:31,405\n結果他到2023年9月都還在看門診你不會覺得很誇張當時台大醫院回覆說近代司法調查近代司法審理眼睜睜的我們現在看著新聞搞到氣飽潛逃\n\n8\n00:02:33,346 --> 00:02:50,431\n那上次這個性騷案李市長性騷案去年2024年5月院方就主動開始調查了他一路上班到今年1月一路上班到今年1月跟這些受害者一起上班到今年1月\n\n9\n00:02:51,391 --> 00:03:08,870\n一月調查確定性騷成立宣布不續聘然後還拖到5月27我知道聽說次長有去跟婦產科醫學會溝通都不願意下台到今年5月27你從WHO回來他才請辭婦產科醫學會理事長一職\n\n10\n00:03:11,372 --> 00:03:18,155\n這段期間這麼多受害人病患這些心理創傷二度創傷誰來負責最後講黃姓的住院醫師更扯他從事發不但完成了專科醫師訓練還拿到婦產科職業執照\n\n11\n00:03:30,140 --> 00:03:56,390\n最後還跑到桃園去當婦產科醫師從事發他總共工作了四年現在他要一起被跟這個信騷理事長才送懲戒所以我很想在這邊問一下部長請問未來任何醫生我先姑且不論是哪一科可是有特定的科別一定會接觸到脆弱的族群\n\n12\n00:03:57,370 --> 00:04:14,101\n其中不乏是兒童婦幼未來任何醫生只要涉及性騷性侵等案件是不是可以一律先停止等到司法審判結束後無罪再來復職你需要多久可以做到多久可以評估我想我們是要依法辦理\n\n13\n00:04:19,712 --> 00:04:27,198\n我剛已經舉例了,台大當時2023年3月也是說依法辦理,結果現在人在國外了?這是他不應該的行為,台大醫院也嚴正譴責,應該要面對司法的調查跟審判,這個行為是不足期的\n\n14\n00:04:46,291 --> 00:04:48,193\n對但是我剛剛的重點我不是告訴你嗎他從開始調查一直到他正式被判決他中間全部都還在做他婦產科的業務\n\n15\n00:05:03,507 --> 00:05:28,285\n我想社會也很關心這個問題但是我們一切一定會依法來辦理所以有關於所以我剛剛已經有報告過了我們也一直在演繹包括519號我們也邀請相關的私人來看看涉及聖培事件疑似人類相關資訊揭露的可行性這跟揭不揭露無關你是不是可以先讓他停職\n\n16\n00:05:30,424 --> 00:05:42,430\n因為很多狼屍我們是需要先讓他停止他一旦涉入了這些性平的調查或是性平的事件這些人都工作非常久耶\n\n17\n00:05:43,120 --> 00:06:10,422\n因為有不同的樣態啦那譬如說那個剛剛講比較討論的擔任協會協會比較高階的這位醫師那上次也爭議過後來台大停了以後他就不准再進度到所有的他當科的所有的研究室有一次被發現說在忘年會過去一下但是他還在看病啊你知道吧\n\n18\n00:06:11,681 --> 00:06:28,771\n他開始調查以後我想台大醫院一定是依法辦理啦台大醫院不可能去容許是一個這麼有傳統有制度的那個而且那麼多的沒關係部長我不相信台大醫院可以在違法的情況之下給他去做看門診或怎麼樣他們有一定有他們處理的一套我剛剛不是已經跟你講了嗎這幾個醫生從開始調查都在看診\n\n19\n00:06:42,213 --> 00:06:44,214\n而且有的是看診了4年我今天主要就是想要問你說未來任何的醫生只要涉及性騷或性侵等案件或是調查是不是你們衛福部可以嚴你先停職等到調查結果出爐司法審判確立無罪再來復職\n\n20\n00:07:07,165 --> 00:07:29,941\n因為我剛舉的這些例子不管是骨科或是婦產科他們都做了長達一年的臨床工作甚至教學工作包委我想我簡單回答一下三個重點第一個確實這個行為任何人都沒有接受這個一定要處理這是第一點第二點可是這裡面有關於停職的規定因為過去我在保訓會待過有關停職的規定老師說會牽涉到有關於不管是\n\n21\n00:07:33,864 --> 00:07:55,749\n這個被行為人或行為人他們自己本身的一些相關的權益那這裡面確實要透過修法那這裡面我跟委員報告我們現在目前也確實本部也在嚴寧就是到底要修醫師法還是還是性招的防治法這個我們可以朝這個方向啊這個在還沒有修法之前我們現在目前本部透過的方式現在透過行政行政處理啊什麼行政處理呢就是說地方這邊如果說如果發生這個情勢的話第一時間社會局就要趕快通報地方衛生局\n\n22\n00:08:01,516 --> 00:08:15,086\n就要趕快通報這個是我們現在透過還沒有修法之前我們現在目前我們透過行政端的部分可以來先來做相關的什麼時候大概多久以內可以看到你們正式的這個報告報告研理報告我們報告的部分我們會盡快好不好多久嗎\n\n23\n00:08:25,638 --> 00:08:48,529\n我們一個月好不好一個月我也跟委員報告其實事實上這個事情發生之後靜怡次長她也找過我我們兩位次長其實共同也要研擬相關的機制這個我們也開過兩次會了因為剛剛部長也有跟其他委員講到說病人的安全病人的健康都是你最在意的對這個當然也是病人安全的範圍之一嘛\n\n24\n00:08:49,750 --> 00:08:59,875\n這個男安全除了個人以外也要環境的跟制度譬如說我們看診一定要有護理師在旁邊我想所有的醫療院所都要堅持\n\n25\n00:09:01,879 --> 00:09:17,444\n我相信都有堅持這樣的原則我想陳可妍也是醫界的人我們不可能再做一個procedure我們現在並不是說只要護理人員都陪在旁邊一個已經被接受調查的人就可以持續看診不要導致像陳敏看病就不安全\n\n26\n00:09:24,446 --> 00:09:25,388\n簽名干病每一個醫院包括診所都非常小心當然不是我現在是說這些人已經開始被調查\n\n27\n00:09:34,676 --> 00:09:58,129\n已經開始被調查之後你是不是應該要保護他們看的病人的安全這個可以我們來研議因為他在調查有不同的型態喔有些比較最最最不應該就是說利用看診的方便去對病人有什麼不當的行為那個人後來做診療當然那個就是已經公開離開了離開所有的職場\n\n28\n00:10:01,299 --> 00:10:10,805\n我們要分類啦才不會變成說好像醫療體系都不安全了這樣也不好我現在就是為了要分類所以我想問你可不可以先把這些人停職我們以一種也可以顧及他生育的方式讓他先停職靜待調查結果出爐或是懲戒結果出爐或是判決結果出爐我們再讓他復職嘛我們會N數的來\n\n29\n00:10:27,596 --> 00:10:36,203\n來研議沒有問題委員所提醒的指導我想我們就很嚴肅的來研議我們會跟法務單位來研議好那這個是你剛講到的8月你可以做到這邊也給你看會議紀錄今年1月我跟蘇青青委員跟陳昭之委員就已經希望你們可以啟動\n\n30\n00:10:49,003 --> 00:11:05,158\n醫師性傷有行為揭露平台的建制程序至今是今天已經7月了現在已經7月了然後5月21蘇昭偉又排了這個事件那天是林淑芬委員問的他又幫我們三個人重新問一次現在也喚起你一點回憶\n\n31\n00:11:07,383 --> 00:11:24,273\n我們知道不影響醫師的清白但也需要在病人安全和隱私維護之間做權衡所以要這細節就是你要納入奪棄為你要邀請相關的利害團體大家一起來討論所以我們要一個知情權才能夠保障醫病雙方的權利給我們一個安心就醫的環境多久可以把這個平台揶揄好剛才委員要求我們在一個月內去把相關公開資訊的部分做過\n\n32\n00:11:24,793 --> 00:11:38,347\n現在討論得很清楚現在講得很清楚懲戒的移送懲戒的相關的法院判決的還有剛剛講的不是判刑確定你們過去五年光是違反一世綿密的沒有一件送懲戒這個標準你要公文下去告訴從中央到地方告訴這個國家所有的執法人員\n\n33\n00:11:40,253 --> 00:12:02,456\n所以剛剛講的啊他說我們對性侵性傷害零容忍你們這個平台雖然是在野黨提的那其實您也有接受記者採訪您也有說您有在考慮這件事情但也是未還委員會通過的那你剛剛說8月要建制您有法源的依據那假使不需要法源依據的您認為你可以先行嗎\n\n34\n00:12:03,888 --> 00:12:22,082\n我們現在就是要先行在合法的情況之下公開到哪些公開資訊這部分剛剛議事司也回答說大概一個月一個月就可以來處理這一塊所以你會告訴我們不需要法源依據的哪一些你們可以先做是嗎應該是這樣對好謝謝結束了嗎好對不起那謝謝昭偉謝謝部長\n\n35\n00:12:33,414 --> 00:12:42,507\n好,謝謝,我們要休息十分鐘不過我還是提醒部長剛剛,剛剛,顏委員的槌醒是是你那個平台齁,那陳委員的槌醒是\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n8973\t14315\t謝謝謝謝主席也謝謝各位委員還有官員首先我也想先請這個衛福部部長來 請部長\n21412\t43458\t我剛聽到很多我們其他女性委員在關注同樣的事情所以我當然也想要來請教部長這個新聞上禮拜鬧得非常的大台大婦產科名醫鄭文芳棄保潛逃結果台大醫院院長只有簡單的說一句說真的是台大之恥\n44578\t72712\t醫界之恥可是我盤點了一下我們這過去幾個月所面對的案件實在是太多了多到我還要一一去細數這個包括前婦產科醫學會理事長的性騷事件這個氣泡潛逃的性侵狼醫以及我們台大的住院醫師黃姓住院醫師被一審判決確定還有一位台大的骨科教授性騷女研究助理藥廠的\n74153\t92513\t那最近也才被輕輕放下緩刑三年你知道這所有的事情共通點是什麼嗎就是整個過程中衛福部跟台大是毫無作為毫無作為他們被迫這些不管是病患或者是他們的下屬的醫師還繼續的跟他們相處\n95356\t113865\t可是我們現在在衛黃委員會我相信各位對於幼保人員對於老師連計程車司機我們都是嚴格的要求而且很積極的為可能會接觸到他們的人搭起一道防護牆我現在就來跟你講這件事有多誇張我們來看\n118750\t122392\t鄭文芳他這個強制性交未遂是在2020 2021年案發齁2023年3月有立委出來喔還是執政黨立委帶著好幾個受害人開記者會譴責這件事情2023年3月\n136657\t151405\t結果他到2023年9月都還在看門診你不會覺得很誇張當時台大醫院回覆說近代司法調查近代司法審理眼睜睜的我們現在看著新聞搞到氣飽潛逃\n153346\t170431\t那上次這個性騷案 李市長性騷案去年2024年5月 院方就主動開始調查了他一路上班到今年1月一路上班到今年1月 跟這些受害者一起上班到今年1月\n171391\t188870\t一月調查確定性騷成立宣布不續聘然後還拖到5月27我知道聽說次長有去跟婦產科醫學會溝通都不願意下台到今年5月27你從WHO回來他才請辭婦產科醫學會理事長一職\n191372\t198155\t這段期間這麼多受害人病患這些心理創傷二度創傷誰來負責最後講黃姓的住院醫師更扯他從事發不但完成了專科醫師訓練還拿到婦產科職業執照\n210140\t236390\t最後還跑到桃園去當婦產科醫師從事發他總共工作了四年現在他要一起被跟這個信騷理事長才送懲戒所以我很想在這邊問一下部長請問未來任何醫生我先姑且不論是哪一科可是有特定的科別一定會接觸到脆弱的族群\n237370\t254101\t其中不乏是兒童婦幼未來任何醫生只要涉及性騷性侵等案件是不是可以一律先停止等到司法審判結束後無罪再來復職你需要多久可以做到 多久可以評估我想我們是要依法辦理\n259712\t267198\t我剛已經舉例了,台大當時2023年3月也是說依法辦理,結果現在人在國外了?這是他不應該的行為,台大醫院也嚴正譴責,應該要面對司法的調查跟審判,這個行為是不足期的\n286291\t288193\t對但是我剛剛的重點我不是告訴你嗎他從開始調查一直到他正式被判決他中間全部都還在做他婦產科的業務\n303507\t328285\t我想社會也很關心這個問題但是我們一切一定會依法來辦理所以有關於所以我剛剛已經有報告過了我們也一直在演繹包括519號我們也邀請相關的私人來看看涉及聖培事件疑似人類相關資訊揭露的可行性這跟揭不揭露無關你是不是可以先讓他停職\n330424\t342430\t因為很多狼屍我們是需要先讓他停止他一旦涉入了這些性平的調查或是性平的事件這些人都工作非常久耶\n343120\t370422\t因為有不同的樣態啦那譬如說那個剛剛講比較討論的擔任協會協會比較高階的這位醫師那上次也爭議過後來台大停了以後他就不准再進度到所有的他當科的所有的研究室有一次被發現說在忘年會過去一下但是他還在看病啊你知道吧\n371681\t388771\t他開始調查以後我想台大醫院一定是依法辦理啦台大醫院不可能去容許是一個這麼有傳統有制度的那個而且那麼多的沒關係部長我不相信台大醫院可以在違法的情況之下給他去做看門診或怎麼樣他們有一定有他們處理的一套我剛剛不是已經跟你講了嗎這幾個醫生從開始調查都在看診\n402213\t404214\t而且有的是看診了4年我今天主要就是想要問你說未來任何的醫生只要涉及性騷或性侵等案件或是調查是不是你們衛福部可以嚴你先停職等到調查結果出爐司法審判確立無罪再來復職\n427165\t449941\t因為我剛舉的這些例子不管是骨科或是婦產科他們都做了長達一年的臨床工作甚至教學工作包委我想我簡單回答一下三個重點第一個確實這個行為任何人都沒有接受這個一定要處理這是第一點第二點可是這裡面有關於停職的規定因為過去我在保訓會待過有關停職的規定老師說會牽涉到有關於不管是\n453864\t475749\t這個被行為人或行為人他們自己本身的一些相關的權益那這裡面確實要透過修法那這裡面我跟委員報告我們現在目前也確實本部也在嚴寧就是到底要修醫師法還是還是性招的防治法這個我們可以朝這個方向啊這個在還沒有修法之前我們現在目前本部透過的方式現在透過行政行政處理啊什麼行政處理呢就是說地方這邊如果說如果發生這個情勢的話第一時間社會局就要趕快通報地方衛生局\n481516\t495086\t就要趕快通報這個是我們現在透過還沒有修法之前我們現在目前我們透過行政端的部分可以來先來做相關的什麼時候大概多久以內可以看到你們正式的這個報告報告 研理報告我們報告的部分我們會盡快好不好多久嗎\n505638\t528529\t我們一個月好不好一個月 我也跟委員報告其實事實上這個事情發生之後靜怡次長她也找過我我們兩位次長其實共同也要研擬相關的機制這個我們也開過兩次會了因為剛剛部長也有跟其他委員講到說病人的安全 病人的健康都是你最在意的對 這個當然也是病人安全的範圍之一嘛\n529750\t539875\t這個男安全除了個人以外也要環境的跟制度譬如說我們看診一定要有護理師在旁邊我想所有的醫療院所都要堅持\n541879\t557444\t我相信都有堅持這樣的原則我想陳可妍也是醫界的人我們不可能再做一個procedure我們現在並不是說只要護理人員都陪在旁邊一個已經被接受調查的人就可以持續看診不要導致像陳敏看病就不安全\n564446\t565388\t簽名干病每一個醫院包括診所都非常小心當然不是我現在是說這些人已經開始被調查\n574676\t598129\t已經開始被調查之後你是不是應該要保護他們看的病人的安全這個可以我們來研議因為他在調查有不同的型態喔有些比較最最最不應該就是說利用看診的方便去對病人有什麼不當的行為那個人後來做診療當然那個就是已經公開離開了離開所有的職場\n601299\t610805\t我們要分類啦 才不會變成說好像醫療體系都不安全了 這樣也不好我現在就是為了要分類 所以我想問你可不可以先把這些人停職 我們以一種也可以顧及他生育的方式讓他先停職 靜待調查結果出爐或是懲戒結果出爐 或是判決結果出爐我們再讓他復職嘛我們會N數的來\n627596\t636203\t來研議沒有問題委員所提醒的指導我想我們就很嚴肅的來研議我們會跟法務單位來研議好那這個是你剛講到的8月你可以做到這邊也給你看會議紀錄今年1月我跟蘇青青委員跟陳昭之委員就已經希望你們可以啟動\n649003\t665158\t醫師性傷有行為揭露平台的建制程序至今是今天已經7月了現在已經7月了然後5月21蘇昭偉又排了這個事件那天是林淑芬委員問的他又幫我們三個人重新問一次現在也喚起你一點回憶\n667383\t684273\t我們知道不影響醫師的清白但也需要在病人安全和隱私維護之間做權衡所以要這細節就是你要納入奪棄為你要邀請相關的利害團體大家一起來討論所以我們要一個知情權才能夠保障醫病雙方的權利給我們一個安心就醫的環境多久可以把這個平台揶揄好剛才委員要求我們在一個月內去把相關公開資訊的部分做過\n684793\t698347\t現在討論得很清楚現在講得很清楚懲戒的移送懲戒的相關的法院判決的還有剛剛講的不是判刑確定你們過去五年光是違反一世綿密的沒有一件送懲戒這個標準你要公文下去告訴從中央到地方告訴這個國家所有的執法人員\n700253\t722456\t所以剛剛講的啊 他說我們對性侵性傷害零容忍你們這個平台雖然是在野黨提的那其實您也有接受記者採訪 您也有說 您有在考慮這件事情但也是未還委員會通過的那你剛剛說8月要建制 您有法源的依據那假使不需要法源依據的 您認為你可以先行嗎\n723888\t742082\t我們現在就是要先行在合法的情況之下公開到哪些公開資訊這部分剛剛議事司也回答說大概一個月一個月就可以來處理這一塊所以你會告訴我們不需要法源依據的哪一些你們可以先做是嗎應該是這樣對好謝謝結束了嗎好對不起那謝謝昭偉謝謝部長\n753414\t762507\t好,謝謝,我們要休息十分鐘不過我還是提醒部長剛剛,剛剛,顏委員的槌醒是是你那個平台齁,那陳委員的槌醒是\n","txt":"謝謝謝謝主席也謝謝各位委員還有官員首先我也想先請這個衛福部部長來 請部長\n我剛聽到很多我們其他女性委員在關注同樣的事情所以我當然也想要來請教部長這個新聞上禮拜鬧得非常的大台大婦產科名醫鄭文芳棄保潛逃結果台大醫院院長只有簡單的說一句說真的是台大之恥\n醫界之恥可是我盤點了一下我們這過去幾個月所面對的案件實在是太多了多到我還要一一去細數這個包括前婦產科醫學會理事長的性騷事件這個氣泡潛逃的性侵狼醫以及我們台大的住院醫師黃姓住院醫師被一審判決確定還有一位台大的骨科教授性騷女研究助理藥廠的\n那最近也才被輕輕放下緩刑三年你知道這所有的事情共通點是什麼嗎就是整個過程中衛福部跟台大是毫無作為毫無作為他們被迫這些不管是病患或者是他們的下屬的醫師還繼續的跟他們相處\n可是我們現在在衛黃委員會我相信各位對於幼保人員對於老師連計程車司機我們都是嚴格的要求而且很積極的為可能會接觸到他們的人搭起一道防護牆我現在就來跟你講這件事有多誇張我們來看\n鄭文芳他這個強制性交未遂是在2020 2021年案發齁2023年3月有立委出來喔還是執政黨立委帶著好幾個受害人開記者會譴責這件事情2023年3月\n結果他到2023年9月都還在看門診你不會覺得很誇張當時台大醫院回覆說近代司法調查近代司法審理眼睜睜的我們現在看著新聞搞到氣飽潛逃\n那上次這個性騷案 李市長性騷案去年2024年5月 院方就主動開始調查了他一路上班到今年1月一路上班到今年1月 跟這些受害者一起上班到今年1月\n一月調查確定性騷成立宣布不續聘然後還拖到5月27我知道聽說次長有去跟婦產科醫學會溝通都不願意下台到今年5月27你從WHO回來他才請辭婦產科醫學會理事長一職\n這段期間這麼多受害人病患這些心理創傷二度創傷誰來負責最後講黃姓的住院醫師更扯他從事發不但完成了專科醫師訓練還拿到婦產科職業執照\n最後還跑到桃園去當婦產科醫師從事發他總共工作了四年現在他要一起被跟這個信騷理事長才送懲戒所以我很想在這邊問一下部長請問未來任何醫生我先姑且不論是哪一科可是有特定的科別一定會接觸到脆弱的族群\n其中不乏是兒童婦幼未來任何醫生只要涉及性騷性侵等案件是不是可以一律先停止等到司法審判結束後無罪再來復職你需要多久可以做到 多久可以評估我想我們是要依法辦理\n我剛已經舉例了,台大當時2023年3月也是說依法辦理,結果現在人在國外了?這是他不應該的行為,台大醫院也嚴正譴責,應該要面對司法的調查跟審判,這個行為是不足期的\n對但是我剛剛的重點我不是告訴你嗎他從開始調查一直到他正式被判決他中間全部都還在做他婦產科的業務\n我想社會也很關心這個問題但是我們一切一定會依法來辦理所以有關於所以我剛剛已經有報告過了我們也一直在演繹包括519號我們也邀請相關的私人來看看涉及聖培事件疑似人類相關資訊揭露的可行性這跟揭不揭露無關你是不是可以先讓他停職\n因為很多狼屍我們是需要先讓他停止他一旦涉入了這些性平的調查或是性平的事件這些人都工作非常久耶\n因為有不同的樣態啦那譬如說那個剛剛講比較討論的擔任協會協會比較高階的這位醫師那上次也爭議過後來台大停了以後他就不准再進度到所有的他當科的所有的研究室有一次被發現說在忘年會過去一下但是他還在看病啊你知道吧\n他開始調查以後我想台大醫院一定是依法辦理啦台大醫院不可能去容許是一個這麼有傳統有制度的那個而且那麼多的沒關係部長我不相信台大醫院可以在違法的情況之下給他去做看門診或怎麼樣他們有一定有他們處理的一套我剛剛不是已經跟你講了嗎這幾個醫生從開始調查都在看診\n而且有的是看診了4年我今天主要就是想要問你說未來任何的醫生只要涉及性騷或性侵等案件或是調查是不是你們衛福部可以嚴你先停職等到調查結果出爐司法審判確立無罪再來復職\n因為我剛舉的這些例子不管是骨科或是婦產科他們都做了長達一年的臨床工作甚至教學工作包委我想我簡單回答一下三個重點第一個確實這個行為任何人都沒有接受這個一定要處理這是第一點第二點可是這裡面有關於停職的規定因為過去我在保訓會待過有關停職的規定老師說會牽涉到有關於不管是\n這個被行為人或行為人他們自己本身的一些相關的權益那這裡面確實要透過修法那這裡面我跟委員報告我們現在目前也確實本部也在嚴寧就是到底要修醫師法還是還是性招的防治法這個我們可以朝這個方向啊這個在還沒有修法之前我們現在目前本部透過的方式現在透過行政行政處理啊什麼行政處理呢就是說地方這邊如果說如果發生這個情勢的話第一時間社會局就要趕快通報地方衛生局\n就要趕快通報這個是我們現在透過還沒有修法之前我們現在目前我們透過行政端的部分可以來先來做相關的什麼時候大概多久以內可以看到你們正式的這個報告報告 研理報告我們報告的部分我們會盡快好不好多久嗎\n我們一個月好不好一個月 我也跟委員報告其實事實上這個事情發生之後靜怡次長她也找過我我們兩位次長其實共同也要研擬相關的機制這個我們也開過兩次會了因為剛剛部長也有跟其他委員講到說病人的安全 病人的健康都是你最在意的對 這個當然也是病人安全的範圍之一嘛\n這個男安全除了個人以外也要環境的跟制度譬如說我們看診一定要有護理師在旁邊我想所有的醫療院所都要堅持\n我相信都有堅持這樣的原則我想陳可妍也是醫界的人我們不可能再做一個procedure我們現在並不是說只要護理人員都陪在旁邊一個已經被接受調查的人就可以持續看診不要導致像陳敏看病就不安全\n簽名干病每一個醫院包括診所都非常小心當然不是我現在是說這些人已經開始被調查\n已經開始被調查之後你是不是應該要保護他們看的病人的安全這個可以我們來研議因為他在調查有不同的型態喔有些比較最最最不應該就是說利用看診的方便去對病人有什麼不當的行為那個人後來做診療當然那個就是已經公開離開了離開所有的職場\n我們要分類啦 才不會變成說好像醫療體系都不安全了 這樣也不好我現在就是為了要分類 所以我想問你可不可以先把這些人停職 我們以一種也可以顧及他生育的方式讓他先停職 靜待調查結果出爐或是懲戒結果出爐 或是判決結果出爐我們再讓他復職嘛我們會N數的來\n來研議沒有問題委員所提醒的指導我想我們就很嚴肅的來研議我們會跟法務單位來研議好那這個是你剛講到的8月你可以做到這邊也給你看會議紀錄今年1月我跟蘇青青委員跟陳昭之委員就已經希望你們可以啟動\n醫師性傷有行為揭露平台的建制程序至今是今天已經7月了現在已經7月了然後5月21蘇昭偉又排了這個事件那天是林淑芬委員問的他又幫我們三個人重新問一次現在也喚起你一點回憶\n我們知道不影響醫師的清白但也需要在病人安全和隱私維護之間做權衡所以要這細節就是你要納入奪棄為你要邀請相關的利害團體大家一起來討論所以我們要一個知情權才能夠保障醫病雙方的權利給我們一個安心就醫的環境多久可以把這個平台揶揄好剛才委員要求我們在一個月內去把相關公開資訊的部分做過\n現在討論得很清楚現在講得很清楚懲戒的移送懲戒的相關的法院判決的還有剛剛講的不是判刑確定你們過去五年光是違反一世綿密的沒有一件送懲戒這個標準你要公文下去告訴從中央到地方告訴這個國家所有的執法人員\n所以剛剛講的啊 他說我們對性侵性傷害零容忍你們這個平台雖然是在野黨提的那其實您也有接受記者採訪 您也有說 您有在考慮這件事情但也是未還委員會通過的那你剛剛說8月要建制 您有法源的依據那假使不需要法源依據的 您認為你可以先行嗎\n我們現在就是要先行在合法的情況之下公開到哪些公開資訊這部分剛剛議事司也回答說大概一個月一個月就可以來處理這一塊所以你會告訴我們不需要法源依據的哪一些你們可以先做是嗎應該是這樣對好謝謝結束了嗎好對不起那謝謝昭偉謝謝部長\n好,謝謝,我們要休息十分鐘不過我還是提醒部長剛剛,剛剛,顏委員的槌醒是是你那個平台齁,那陳委員的槌醒是\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:08.973 --> 00:14.315\n謝謝謝謝主席也謝謝各位委員還有官員首先我也想先請這個衛福部部長來請部長\n\n00:21.412 --> 00:43.458\n我剛聽到很多我們其他女性委員在關注同樣的事情所以我當然也想要來請教部長這個新聞上禮拜鬧得非常的大台大婦產科名醫鄭文芳棄保潛逃結果台大醫院院長只有簡單的說一句說真的是台大之恥\n\n00:44.578 --> 01:12.712\n醫界之恥可是我盤點了一下我們這過去幾個月所面對的案件實在是太多了多到我還要一一去細數這個包括前婦產科醫學會理事長的性騷事件這個氣泡潛逃的性侵狼醫以及我們台大的住院醫師黃姓住院醫師被一審判決確定還有一位台大的骨科教授性騷女研究助理藥廠的\n\n01:14.153 --> 01:32.513\n那最近也才被輕輕放下緩刑三年你知道這所有的事情共通點是什麼嗎就是整個過程中衛福部跟台大是毫無作為毫無作為他們被迫這些不管是病患或者是他們的下屬的醫師還繼續的跟他們相處\n\n01:35.356 --> 01:53.865\n可是我們現在在衛黃委員會我相信各位對於幼保人員對於老師連計程車司機我們都是嚴格的要求而且很積極的為可能會接觸到他們的人搭起一道防護牆我現在就來跟你講這件事有多誇張我們來看\n\n01:58.750 --> 02:02.392\n鄭文芳他這個強制性交未遂是在20202021年案發齁2023年3月有立委出來喔還是執政黨立委帶著好幾個受害人開記者會譴責這件事情2023年3月\n\n02:16.657 --> 02:31.405\n結果他到2023年9月都還在看門診你不會覺得很誇張當時台大醫院回覆說近代司法調查近代司法審理眼睜睜的我們現在看著新聞搞到氣飽潛逃\n\n02:33.346 --> 02:50.431\n那上次這個性騷案李市長性騷案去年2024年5月院方就主動開始調查了他一路上班到今年1月一路上班到今年1月跟這些受害者一起上班到今年1月\n\n02:51.391 --> 03:08.870\n一月調查確定性騷成立宣布不續聘然後還拖到5月27我知道聽說次長有去跟婦產科醫學會溝通都不願意下台到今年5月27你從WHO回來他才請辭婦產科醫學會理事長一職\n\n03:11.372 --> 03:18.155\n這段期間這麼多受害人病患這些心理創傷二度創傷誰來負責最後講黃姓的住院醫師更扯他從事發不但完成了專科醫師訓練還拿到婦產科職業執照\n\n03:30.140 --> 03:56.390\n最後還跑到桃園去當婦產科醫師從事發他總共工作了四年現在他要一起被跟這個信騷理事長才送懲戒所以我很想在這邊問一下部長請問未來任何醫生我先姑且不論是哪一科可是有特定的科別一定會接觸到脆弱的族群\n\n03:57.370 --> 04:14.101\n其中不乏是兒童婦幼未來任何醫生只要涉及性騷性侵等案件是不是可以一律先停止等到司法審判結束後無罪再來復職你需要多久可以做到多久可以評估我想我們是要依法辦理\n\n04:19.712 --> 04:27.198\n我剛已經舉例了,台大當時2023年3月也是說依法辦理,結果現在人在國外了?這是他不應該的行為,台大醫院也嚴正譴責,應該要面對司法的調查跟審判,這個行為是不足期的\n\n04:46.291 --> 04:48.193\n對但是我剛剛的重點我不是告訴你嗎他從開始調查一直到他正式被判決他中間全部都還在做他婦產科的業務\n\n05:03.507 --> 05:28.285\n我想社會也很關心這個問題但是我們一切一定會依法來辦理所以有關於所以我剛剛已經有報告過了我們也一直在演繹包括519號我們也邀請相關的私人來看看涉及聖培事件疑似人類相關資訊揭露的可行性這跟揭不揭露無關你是不是可以先讓他停職\n\n05:30.424 --> 05:42.430\n因為很多狼屍我們是需要先讓他停止他一旦涉入了這些性平的調查或是性平的事件這些人都工作非常久耶\n\n05:43.120 --> 06:10.422\n因為有不同的樣態啦那譬如說那個剛剛講比較討論的擔任協會協會比較高階的這位醫師那上次也爭議過後來台大停了以後他就不准再進度到所有的他當科的所有的研究室有一次被發現說在忘年會過去一下但是他還在看病啊你知道吧\n\n06:11.681 --> 06:28.771\n他開始調查以後我想台大醫院一定是依法辦理啦台大醫院不可能去容許是一個這麼有傳統有制度的那個而且那麼多的沒關係部長我不相信台大醫院可以在違法的情況之下給他去做看門診或怎麼樣他們有一定有他們處理的一套我剛剛不是已經跟你講了嗎這幾個醫生從開始調查都在看診\n\n06:42.213 --> 06:44.214\n而且有的是看診了4年我今天主要就是想要問你說未來任何的醫生只要涉及性騷或性侵等案件或是調查是不是你們衛福部可以嚴你先停職等到調查結果出爐司法審判確立無罪再來復職\n\n07:07.165 --> 07:29.941\n因為我剛舉的這些例子不管是骨科或是婦產科他們都做了長達一年的臨床工作甚至教學工作包委我想我簡單回答一下三個重點第一個確實這個行為任何人都沒有接受這個一定要處理這是第一點第二點可是這裡面有關於停職的規定因為過去我在保訓會待過有關停職的規定老師說會牽涉到有關於不管是\n\n07:33.864 --> 07:55.749\n這個被行為人或行為人他們自己本身的一些相關的權益那這裡面確實要透過修法那這裡面我跟委員報告我們現在目前也確實本部也在嚴寧就是到底要修醫師法還是還是性招的防治法這個我們可以朝這個方向啊這個在還沒有修法之前我們現在目前本部透過的方式現在透過行政行政處理啊什麼行政處理呢就是說地方這邊如果說如果發生這個情勢的話第一時間社會局就要趕快通報地方衛生局\n\n08:01.516 --> 08:15.086\n就要趕快通報這個是我們現在透過還沒有修法之前我們現在目前我們透過行政端的部分可以來先來做相關的什麼時候大概多久以內可以看到你們正式的這個報告報告研理報告我們報告的部分我們會盡快好不好多久嗎\n\n08:25.638 --> 08:48.529\n我們一個月好不好一個月我也跟委員報告其實事實上這個事情發生之後靜怡次長她也找過我我們兩位次長其實共同也要研擬相關的機制這個我們也開過兩次會了因為剛剛部長也有跟其他委員講到說病人的安全病人的健康都是你最在意的對這個當然也是病人安全的範圍之一嘛\n\n08:49.750 --> 08:59.875\n這個男安全除了個人以外也要環境的跟制度譬如說我們看診一定要有護理師在旁邊我想所有的醫療院所都要堅持\n\n09:01.879 --> 09:17.444\n我相信都有堅持這樣的原則我想陳可妍也是醫界的人我們不可能再做一個procedure我們現在並不是說只要護理人員都陪在旁邊一個已經被接受調查的人就可以持續看診不要導致像陳敏看病就不安全\n\n09:24.446 --> 09:25.388\n簽名干病每一個醫院包括診所都非常小心當然不是我現在是說這些人已經開始被調查\n\n09:34.676 --> 09:58.129\n已經開始被調查之後你是不是應該要保護他們看的病人的安全這個可以我們來研議因為他在調查有不同的型態喔有些比較最最最不應該就是說利用看診的方便去對病人有什麼不當的行為那個人後來做診療當然那個就是已經公開離開了離開所有的職場\n\n10:01.299 --> 10:10.805\n我們要分類啦才不會變成說好像醫療體系都不安全了這樣也不好我現在就是為了要分類所以我想問你可不可以先把這些人停職我們以一種也可以顧及他生育的方式讓他先停職靜待調查結果出爐或是懲戒結果出爐或是判決結果出爐我們再讓他復職嘛我們會N數的來\n\n10:27.596 --> 10:36.203\n來研議沒有問題委員所提醒的指導我想我們就很嚴肅的來研議我們會跟法務單位來研議好那這個是你剛講到的8月你可以做到這邊也給你看會議紀錄今年1月我跟蘇青青委員跟陳昭之委員就已經希望你們可以啟動\n\n10:49.003 --> 11:05.158\n醫師性傷有行為揭露平台的建制程序至今是今天已經7月了現在已經7月了然後5月21蘇昭偉又排了這個事件那天是林淑芬委員問的他又幫我們三個人重新問一次現在也喚起你一點回憶\n\n11:07.383 --> 11:24.273\n我們知道不影響醫師的清白但也需要在病人安全和隱私維護之間做權衡所以要這細節就是你要納入奪棄為你要邀請相關的利害團體大家一起來討論所以我們要一個知情權才能夠保障醫病雙方的權利給我們一個安心就醫的環境多久可以把這個平台揶揄好剛才委員要求我們在一個月內去把相關公開資訊的部分做過\n\n11:24.793 --> 11:38.347\n現在討論得很清楚現在講得很清楚懲戒的移送懲戒的相關的法院判決的還有剛剛講的不是判刑確定你們過去五年光是違反一世綿密的沒有一件送懲戒這個標準你要公文下去告訴從中央到地方告訴這個國家所有的執法人員\n\n11:40.253 --> 12:02.456\n所以剛剛講的啊他說我們對性侵性傷害零容忍你們這個平台雖然是在野黨提的那其實您也有接受記者採訪您也有說您有在考慮這件事情但也是未還委員會通過的那你剛剛說8月要建制您有法源的依據那假使不需要法源依據的您認為你可以先行嗎\n\n12:03.888 --> 12:22.082\n我們現在就是要先行在合法的情況之下公開到哪些公開資訊這部分剛剛議事司也回答說大概一個月一個月就可以來處理這一塊所以你會告訴我們不需要法源依據的哪一些你們可以先做是嗎應該是這樣對好謝謝結束了嗎好對不起那謝謝昭偉謝謝部長\n\n12:33.414 --> 12:42.507\n好,謝謝,我們要休息十分鐘不過我還是提醒部長剛剛,剛剛,顏委員的槌醒是是你那個平台齁,那陳委員的槌醒是\n\n","segments":[{"start":8.973,"end":14.315,"text":"謝謝謝謝主席也謝謝各位委員還有官員首先我也想先請這個衛福部部長來 請部長"},{"start":21.412,"end":43.458,"text":"我剛聽到很多我們其他女性委員在關注同樣的事情所以我當然也想要來請教部長這個新聞上禮拜鬧得非常的大台大婦產科名醫鄭文芳棄保潛逃結果台大醫院院長只有簡單的說一句說真的是台大之恥"},{"start":44.578,"end":72.712,"text":"醫界之恥可是我盤點了一下我們這過去幾個月所面對的案件實在是太多了多到我還要一一去細數這個包括前婦產科醫學會理事長的性騷事件這個氣泡潛逃的性侵狼醫以及我們台大的住院醫師黃姓住院醫師被一審判決確定還有一位台大的骨科教授性騷女研究助理藥廠的"},{"start":74.153,"end":92.513,"text":"那最近也才被輕輕放下緩刑三年你知道這所有的事情共通點是什麼嗎就是整個過程中衛福部跟台大是毫無作為毫無作為他們被迫這些不管是病患或者是他們的下屬的醫師還繼續的跟他們相處"},{"start":95.356,"end":113.865,"text":"可是我們現在在衛黃委員會我相信各位對於幼保人員對於老師連計程車司機我們都是嚴格的要求而且很積極的為可能會接觸到他們的人搭起一道防護牆我現在就來跟你講這件事有多誇張我們來看"},{"start":118.75,"end":122.392,"text":"鄭文芳他這個強制性交未遂是在2020 2021年案發齁2023年3月有立委出來喔還是執政黨立委帶著好幾個受害人開記者會譴責這件事情2023年3月"},{"start":136.657,"end":151.405,"text":"結果他到2023年9月都還在看門診你不會覺得很誇張當時台大醫院回覆說近代司法調查近代司法審理眼睜睜的我們現在看著新聞搞到氣飽潛逃"},{"start":153.346,"end":170.431,"text":"那上次這個性騷案 李市長性騷案去年2024年5月 院方就主動開始調查了他一路上班到今年1月一路上班到今年1月 跟這些受害者一起上班到今年1月"},{"start":171.391,"end":188.87,"text":"一月調查確定性騷成立宣布不續聘然後還拖到5月27我知道聽說次長有去跟婦產科醫學會溝通都不願意下台到今年5月27你從WHO回來他才請辭婦產科醫學會理事長一職"},{"start":191.372,"end":198.155,"text":"這段期間這麼多受害人病患這些心理創傷二度創傷誰來負責最後講黃姓的住院醫師更扯他從事發不但完成了專科醫師訓練還拿到婦產科職業執照"},{"start":210.14,"end":236.39,"text":"最後還跑到桃園去當婦產科醫師從事發他總共工作了四年現在他要一起被跟這個信騷理事長才送懲戒所以我很想在這邊問一下部長請問未來任何醫生我先姑且不論是哪一科可是有特定的科別一定會接觸到脆弱的族群"},{"start":237.37,"end":254.101,"text":"其中不乏是兒童婦幼未來任何醫生只要涉及性騷性侵等案件是不是可以一律先停止等到司法審判結束後無罪再來復職你需要多久可以做到 多久可以評估我想我們是要依法辦理"},{"start":259.712,"end":267.198,"text":"我剛已經舉例了,台大當時2023年3月也是說依法辦理,結果現在人在國外了?這是他不應該的行為,台大醫院也嚴正譴責,應該要面對司法的調查跟審判,這個行為是不足期的"},{"start":286.291,"end":288.193,"text":"對但是我剛剛的重點我不是告訴你嗎他從開始調查一直到他正式被判決他中間全部都還在做他婦產科的業務"},{"start":303.507,"end":328.285,"text":"我想社會也很關心這個問題但是我們一切一定會依法來辦理所以有關於所以我剛剛已經有報告過了我們也一直在演繹包括519號我們也邀請相關的私人來看看涉及聖培事件疑似人類相關資訊揭露的可行性這跟揭不揭露無關你是不是可以先讓他停職"},{"start":330.424,"end":342.43,"text":"因為很多狼屍我們是需要先讓他停止他一旦涉入了這些性平的調查或是性平的事件這些人都工作非常久耶"},{"start":343.12,"end":370.422,"text":"因為有不同的樣態啦那譬如說那個剛剛講比較討論的擔任協會協會比較高階的這位醫師那上次也爭議過後來台大停了以後他就不准再進度到所有的他當科的所有的研究室有一次被發現說在忘年會過去一下但是他還在看病啊你知道吧"},{"start":371.681,"end":388.771,"text":"他開始調查以後我想台大醫院一定是依法辦理啦台大醫院不可能去容許是一個這麼有傳統有制度的那個而且那麼多的沒關係部長我不相信台大醫院可以在違法的情況之下給他去做看門診或怎麼樣他們有一定有他們處理的一套我剛剛不是已經跟你講了嗎這幾個醫生從開始調查都在看診"},{"start":402.213,"end":404.214,"text":"而且有的是看診了4年我今天主要就是想要問你說未來任何的醫生只要涉及性騷或性侵等案件或是調查是不是你們衛福部可以嚴你先停職等到調查結果出爐司法審判確立無罪再來復職"},{"start":427.165,"end":449.941,"text":"因為我剛舉的這些例子不管是骨科或是婦產科他們都做了長達一年的臨床工作甚至教學工作包委我想我簡單回答一下三個重點第一個確實這個行為任何人都沒有接受這個一定要處理這是第一點第二點可是這裡面有關於停職的規定因為過去我在保訓會待過有關停職的規定老師說會牽涉到有關於不管是"},{"start":453.864,"end":475.749,"text":"這個被行為人或行為人他們自己本身的一些相關的權益那這裡面確實要透過修法那這裡面我跟委員報告我們現在目前也確實本部也在嚴寧就是到底要修醫師法還是還是性招的防治法這個我們可以朝這個方向啊這個在還沒有修法之前我們現在目前本部透過的方式現在透過行政行政處理啊什麼行政處理呢就是說地方這邊如果說如果發生這個情勢的話第一時間社會局就要趕快通報地方衛生局"},{"start":481.516,"end":495.086,"text":"就要趕快通報這個是我們現在透過還沒有修法之前我們現在目前我們透過行政端的部分可以來先來做相關的什麼時候大概多久以內可以看到你們正式的這個報告報告 研理報告我們報告的部分我們會盡快好不好多久嗎"},{"start":505.638,"end":528.529,"text":"我們一個月好不好一個月 我也跟委員報告其實事實上這個事情發生之後靜怡次長她也找過我我們兩位次長其實共同也要研擬相關的機制這個我們也開過兩次會了因為剛剛部長也有跟其他委員講到說病人的安全 病人的健康都是你最在意的對 這個當然也是病人安全的範圍之一嘛"},{"start":529.75,"end":539.875,"text":"這個男安全除了個人以外也要環境的跟制度譬如說我們看診一定要有護理師在旁邊我想所有的醫療院所都要堅持"},{"start":541.879,"end":557.444,"text":"我相信都有堅持這樣的原則我想陳可妍也是醫界的人我們不可能再做一個procedure我們現在並不是說只要護理人員都陪在旁邊一個已經被接受調查的人就可以持續看診不要導致像陳敏看病就不安全"},{"start":564.446,"end":565.388,"text":"簽名干病每一個醫院包括診所都非常小心當然不是我現在是說這些人已經開始被調查"},{"start":574.676,"end":598.129,"text":"已經開始被調查之後你是不是應該要保護他們看的病人的安全這個可以我們來研議因為他在調查有不同的型態喔有些比較最最最不應該就是說利用看診的方便去對病人有什麼不當的行為那個人後來做診療當然那個就是已經公開離開了離開所有的職場"},{"start":601.299,"end":610.805,"text":"我們要分類啦 才不會變成說好像醫療體系都不安全了 這樣也不好我現在就是為了要分類 所以我想問你可不可以先把這些人停職 我們以一種也可以顧及他生育的方式讓他先停職 靜待調查結果出爐或是懲戒結果出爐 或是判決結果出爐我們再讓他復職嘛我們會N數的來"},{"start":627.596,"end":636.203,"text":"來研議沒有問題委員所提醒的指導我想我們就很嚴肅的來研議我們會跟法務單位來研議好那這個是你剛講到的8月你可以做到這邊也給你看會議紀錄今年1月我跟蘇青青委員跟陳昭之委員就已經希望你們可以啟動"},{"start":649.003,"end":665.158,"text":"醫師性傷有行為揭露平台的建制程序至今是今天已經7月了現在已經7月了然後5月21蘇昭偉又排了這個事件那天是林淑芬委員問的他又幫我們三個人重新問一次現在也喚起你一點回憶"},{"start":667.383,"end":684.273,"text":"我們知道不影響醫師的清白但也需要在病人安全和隱私維護之間做權衡所以要這細節就是你要納入奪棄為你要邀請相關的利害團體大家一起來討論所以我們要一個知情權才能夠保障醫病雙方的權利給我們一個安心就醫的環境多久可以把這個平台揶揄好剛才委員要求我們在一個月內去把相關公開資訊的部分做過"},{"start":684.793,"end":698.347,"text":"現在討論得很清楚現在講得很清楚懲戒的移送懲戒的相關的法院判決的還有剛剛講的不是判刑確定你們過去五年光是違反一世綿密的沒有一件送懲戒這個標準你要公文下去告訴從中央到地方告訴這個國家所有的執法人員"},{"start":700.253,"end":722.456,"text":"所以剛剛講的啊 他說我們對性侵性傷害零容忍你們這個平台雖然是在野黨提的那其實您也有接受記者採訪 您也有說 您有在考慮這件事情但也是未還委員會通過的那你剛剛說8月要建制 您有法源的依據那假使不需要法源依據的 您認為你可以先行嗎"},{"start":723.888,"end":742.082,"text":"我們現在就是要先行在合法的情況之下公開到哪些公開資訊這部分剛剛議事司也回答說大概一個月一個月就可以來處理這一塊所以你會告訴我們不需要法源依據的哪一些你們可以先做是嗎應該是這樣對好謝謝結束了嗎好對不起那謝謝昭偉謝謝部長"},{"start":753.414,"end":762.507,"text":"好,謝謝,我們要休息十分鐘不過我還是提醒部長剛剛,剛剛,顏委員的槌醒是是你那個平台齁,那陳委員的槌醒是"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":729,"blocks":[["陳委員菁徽：（10時21分）謝謝主席，也謝謝各位委員及官員。首先我想先請衛福部部長。"],["主席：請部長。"],["邱部長泰源：委員好。"],["陳委員菁徽：我剛剛聽到很多其他女性委員在關注同樣的事情，所以我當然也想要來請教部長。"],["邱部長泰源：是的。"],["陳委員菁徽：這個新聞在上禮拜鬧得非常的大，臺大婦產科名醫鄭文芳棄保潛逃，結果臺大醫院院長只有簡單的說一句：真的是臺大之恥、醫界之恥。我盤點了一下，我們過去幾個月所面對的案件實在是太多了，多到我還要一一去細數，包括前婦產科醫學會理事長的性騷事件、這一位棄保潛逃的性侵狼醫，以及臺大的黃姓住院醫師被一審判決確定，還有一位臺大的骨科教授性騷藥廠派駐醫院的女研究助理，最近也才被輕輕放下，判緩刑3年。你知道這所有事情的共通點是什麼嗎？就是整個過程中，衛福部跟臺大是毫無作為喔！毫無作為下導致這些不管是病患或者是下屬醫師還被迫要繼續跟他們相處。我們現在在社環委員會，我相信各位對於幼保人員、對於老師，連計程車司機，我們都是嚴格的要求，而且很積極的為可能會接觸到他們的人搭起一道防護牆。","我現在就來跟你講這些事有多誇張，我們先來看鄭文芳，他的強制性交未遂是在2020年、2021年案發，2023年3月有立委出來，還是執政黨的立委，帶著好幾個受害人開記者會譴責這件事情，結果他到2023年9月都還在看門診，你不會覺得很誇張？當時臺大醫院的回覆是靜待司法調查、靜待司法審理，眼睜睜的，我們現在看到的新聞是搞到棄保潛逃。","至於理事長的性騷案，去年（2024年）5月院方就主動開始調查了，但他一路上班到今年1月，跟這些受害者一起上班到今年1月，1月調查確定性騷成立，宣布不續聘，然後還拖到5月27日，我聽說次長有去跟婦產科醫學會溝通，但他都不願意下臺，到今年5月27日你從WHO回來，他才請辭婦產科醫學會理事長一職，這段期間這麼多受害人、病患，這些心理創傷、二度創傷誰來負責？最後，講到黃姓住院醫師，更扯！他事發後不但完成了專科醫師訓練，還拿到婦產科執業執照，最後還跑到桃園去當婦產科醫師，事發後他總共工作了4年，現在他跟這位性騷的理事長才要一起送懲戒耶！","所以我很想在這邊問一下部長，請問，未來任何一位醫生，我先姑且不論是哪一科，可是有特定科別一定會接觸到脆弱的族群，其中不乏是兒童、婦幼，未來任何醫生只要涉及性騷、性侵等案件，是不是可以一律先停職，等到司法審判結束後，無罪再來復職？你需要多久可以做到？多久可以評估？"],["邱部長泰源：我想我們一切要依法辦理啦，那個……"],["陳委員菁徽：我剛剛已經舉例了，臺大當時在2023年3月也是說依法辦理，結果現在人在國外了！"],["邱部長泰源：這是他不應該的行為，臺大醫院也嚴正譴責嘛！應該要面對司法的調查跟審判，這個行為是不足取的。"],["陳委員菁徽：對，但我剛剛的重點不就告訴你了，他從開始調查一直到正式被判決，中間全部都還在做婦產科的業務耶！"],["邱部長泰源：我想社會也很關心這個問題，我們一切都一定會依法來辦理，我剛剛已經有報告過了，我們也一直在研議，包括5月29號也邀集相關的司、署來看看涉及性平事件，醫事人員相關資訊揭露的可行性啦……"],["陳委員菁徽：這跟揭不揭露無關，你是不是可以先讓他停職？因為很多狼醫，我們是需要先讓他停職，他一旦涉入了這些性平的調查或是性平的事件，這些人都工作非常久耶！"],["邱部長泰源：因為有不同的樣態，譬如剛剛講的、比較有在討論的、在學會擔任比較高階職位的這位醫師，上次也爭議過，後來臺大停職了以後，他就不准再進入到當科的所有研究室啊！有一次被發現在忘年會後，他有過去一下……"],["陳委員菁徽：但是他還在看病啊！你知道吧？從他被開始調查以後……"],["邱部長泰源：我想臺大醫院一定是依法辦理，臺大醫院不可能去容許的，一個這麼有傳統、有制度的醫院，而且有那麼多的……"],["陳委員菁徽：沒關係，部長，我們就簡單……"],["邱部長泰源：我不相信臺大醫院可以在違法的情況之下給他看門診或怎麼樣，他們一定有他們處理的一套標準。"],["陳委員菁徽：我剛剛不是已經跟你講了，這幾個醫生從開始被調查都還在看診，而且有的是看診了4年耶！我今天主要就是想要問你，未來任何的醫生，只要涉及性騷或性侵等案件或是被調查，是不是你們衛福部可以研擬先停職，等到調查結果出爐、司法審判確立無罪之後再來復職？因為我剛剛舉的這些例子，不管是骨科或是婦產科，他們都做了長達一年的臨床工作，甚至教學工作耶！"],["呂次長建德：報告委員，我簡單回答一下，這有三個重點：第一個，確實這個行為是任何人都沒有辦法接受的，這個一定要處理，這是第一個；第二個，因為過去我在保訓會待過，有關停職的規定，老實說，這會牽涉到不管是被行為人或行為人他們自己本身的相關權利，這個確實要透過修法。我跟委員報告，現在確實本部也在研擬到底要修醫師法還是性騷擾防治法，我們可以朝這個方向，但是在還沒有修法之前，目前本部的方式是透過行政處理，怎麼行政處理呢？就是地方這邊如果發生這個情事的話，第一時間社會局就要趕快通報地方衛生局，就要趕快通報，這個是現在還沒有修法之前，我們目前透過行政端的部分可以先來做相關的處置方式。"],["陳委員菁徽：好，所以什麼時候、大概多久以內可以看到你們正式的報告？評估報告、研擬報告。"],["呂次長建德：報告委員，有關報告的部分，我們會儘快，好不好？我們……"],["陳委員菁徽：多久嘛？"],["呂次長建德：一個月，好不好？"],["陳委員菁徽：好，一個月，我們記錄起來。"],["呂次長建德：我也跟委員報告，事實上，這個事情發生之後，靜儀次長找過我，我們兩位次長共同有要研擬相關的機制，我們也開過兩次會了，跟委員回報一下。"],["陳委員菁徽：好，因為剛剛部長也有跟其他委員講到病人的安全、病人的健康都是你最在意的，這個當然也是病人安全的範圍之一嘛！"],["邱部長泰源：病人的安全除了個人以外，也要包含環境跟制度，比如我們看診一定要有護理師在旁邊，我想所有的醫療院所都要堅持這樣的原則，我也相信他們都有堅持這樣的原則，陳委員也是醫界的人嘛！我們不可能在做一個procedure，如果他是女生……"],["陳委員菁徽：我們現在並不是只要有護理人員陪在旁邊，一個已經在接受調查的人就可以持續看診。"],["邱部長泰源：我是說qualified這種狀況啦！就是不要導致好像變成全民看病就不安全，全民看病在每一個醫院，包括診所，都非常小心啦！"],["陳委員菁徽：當然不是！我現在是說這些人已經開始被調查之後，你是不是應該要保護他們看的病人的安全。"],["邱部長泰源：這個我們可以來研議，因為調查有不同的型態，有些比較……最最最不應該的就是利用看診的方便去對病人有什麼不當的行為。"],["陳委員菁徽：對啊，那個人後來還做4年耶！"],["邱部長泰源：當然，那個就是已經公開也離開了，離開所有的職場，我們要分類啦！才不會變成好像醫療體系都不安全，這樣也不好，有些……"],["陳委員菁徽：我現在就是為了要分類，所以我想問你，可不可以先把這些人停職？我們以一種也可以顧及他聲譽的方式，讓他先停職，靜待調查結果出爐或是懲戒結果出爐或是判決結果出爐，我們再讓他復職嘛！"],["邱部長泰源：我們會嚴肅的來研議，沒有問題，委員的提醒及指導，我想我們會很嚴肅的來研議。"],["陳委員菁徽：好。"],["邱部長泰源：我們會跟法務單位來研議。"],["陳委員菁徽：好，這個是你剛剛講到的，8月你可以做到，這邊也給你看會議紀錄，今年1月，我跟蘇清泉委員、陳昭姿委員就已經希望你們可以啟動醫師性騷擾行為揭露平臺的建置程序，現在已經7月了，然後5月21日蘇召委又排了這個事件的相關議程，那一天是林淑芬委員問的，他又幫我們三個人重新問一次，現在來喚起你一點回憶。","（播放影片）"],["陳委員菁徽：部長應該也聽到他講的話了，他說我們對性侵、性騷案零容忍，你們這個平臺雖然是在野黨提的，其實你也有接受記者採訪，你也說有在考慮這件事情，但也是社環委員會通過的，你剛剛說8月要建置，你要有法源的依據，假使不需要法源依據的，您認為可以先行嗎？"],["邱部長泰源：我們現在就是要先行，看看在合法的情況之下能公開哪些資訊，這部分剛剛醫事司也回答說大概一個月就可以來處理這一塊。"],["陳委員菁徽：所以你會告訴我們，不需要法源依據的哪一些你們可以先做，是嗎？"],["邱部長泰源：應該是這樣。"],["陳委員菁徽：好，謝謝。謝謝召委，謝謝部長。"],["邱部長泰源：謝謝委員。"],["主席：謝謝。我們要休息10分鐘，不過我還是提醒部長，剛剛楊委員的垂詢是那個平臺，陳委員的垂詢是平臺間怎麼去停止這個醫師的執業，這是兩個層次的問題，你們剛剛答復的，我覺得等一下林淑芬委員也會問，你們絕對跑不了，你們答得「離離落落」就對了。醫事司，我覺得你們真的是要負起最大的責任。"],["林委員淑芬：你這樣說，我不問都不行了！"],["主席：對啊！你不要跑，我讓他們休息10分鐘，讓他們喘息一下，他們需要喘息服務啦！","休息（10時34分）","繼續開會（10時45分）"],["主席：好，我們繼續開會。","接下來請林淑芬委員來做詢答。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":262,"meet_id":"委員會-11-3-26-19","speakers":["劉建國","范雲","林月琴","楊瓊瓔","陳昭姿","王育敏","陳菁徽","林淑芬","涂權吉","王正旭","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","黃國昌","張雅琳","盧縣一","黃秀芳","楊曜","林楚茵","廖偉翔","蘇清泉","陳瑩"],"page_start":171,"meetingDate":["2025-07-07"],"gazette_id":"1146604","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1146604_00007"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第19次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"審查一、委員楊曜等17人擬具「社會救助法第十六條條文修正草案」案；二、委員范雲等17人擬\n具「社會救助法部分條文修正草案」案；三、委員謝衣鳯等16人擬具「社會救助法部分條文修正\n草案」案；四、委員黃秀芳等20人擬具「社會救助法第二條、第四條及第十四條條文修正草案」\n案；五、委員翁曉玲等18人擬具「社會救助法第十一條條文修正草案」案；六、委員黃捷等16人\n擬具「社會救助法第十六條條文修正草案」案；七、委員蔡其昌等 17 人擬具「社會救助法第四\n條、第四條之一及第五條條文修正草案」案；八、委員徐富癸等17人擬具「社會救助法第十一條\n條文修正草案」案；九、委員王鴻薇等26人擬具「社會救助法第十五條及第十五條之一條文修正\n草案」案；十、委員邱若華等20人擬具「社會救助法部分條文修正草案」案；十一、台灣民眾黨\n黨團擬具「社會救助法第十一條條文修正草案」案；十二、委員伍麗華 Saidhai Tahovecahe 等\n18人擬具「社會救助法第五條之二、第十一條及第二十一條條文修正草案」案；十三、委員楊瓊\n瓔等21人擬具「社會救助法第十一條條文修正草案」案；十四、委員萬美玲等20人擬具「社會救\n助法第四條及第十一條條文修正草案」案；十五、委員林月琴等19人擬具「社會救助法部分條文\n修正草案」案；十六、委員楊曜等24人擬具「社會救助法第十六條條文修正草案」案；十七、委\n員馬文君等20 人擬具「社會救助法第十一條條文修正草案」案；十八、委員葉元之等 21 人擬具\n「社會救助法第十一條條文修正草案」案；十九、委員羅智強等18人擬具「社會救助法第十一條\n及第十六條條文修正草案」案；二十、委員何欣純等17人擬具「社會救助法部分條文修正草案」\n案；二十一、委員劉建國等18人擬具「社會救助法部分條文修正草案」案；二十二、委員林楚茵\n等18人擬具「社會救助法第十六條條文修正草案」案；二十三、委員羅廷瑋等16人擬具「社會救\n助法部分條文修正草案」案；二十四、委員邱若華等17人擬具「社會救助法第十一條條文修正草\n案」案；二十五、委員陳亭妃等16人擬具「社會救助法第二十四條條文修正草案」案；二十六、\n委員吳沛憶等16 人擬具「社會救助法部分條文修正草案」案；二十七、委員邱鎮軍等 24 人擬具\n「社會救助法第五條之二條文修正草案」案；二十八、委員游顥等17人擬具「社會救助法第五條\n之一及第五條之二條文修正草案」案；二十九、委員翁曉玲等16人擬具「社會救助法第五條之二\n條文修正草案」案；三十、委員馬文君等16 人擬具「社會救助法第五條之二條文修正草案」案\n【僅詢答】","agenda_id":"1146604_00020"}}}