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Tahovecahe等18人擬具「社會救助法第五條之二、第十一條及第二十一條條文修正草案」案。\n十三、委員楊瓊瓔等21人擬具「社會救助法第十一條條文修正草案」案。\n十四、委員萬美玲等20人擬具「社會救助法第四條及第十一條條文修正草案」案。\n十五、委員林月琴等19人擬具「社會救助法部分條文修正草案」案。\n十六、委員楊曜等24人擬具「社會救助法第十六條條文修正草案」案。\n十七、委員馬文君等20人擬具「社會救助法第十一條條文修正草案」案。\n十八、委員葉元之等21人擬具「社會救助法第十一條條文修正草案」案。\n十九、委員羅智強等18人擬具「社會救助法第十一條及第十六條條文修正草案」案。\n二十、委員何欣純等17人擬具「社會救助法部分條文修正草案」案。\n二十一、委員劉建國等18人擬具「社會救助法部分條文修正草案」案。\n二十二、委員林楚茵等18人擬具「社會救助法第十六條條文修正草案」案。\n二十三、委員羅廷瑋等16人擬具「社會救助法部分條文修正草案」案。\n二十四、委員邱若華等17人擬具「社會救助法第十一條條文修正草案」案。\n二十五、委員陳亭妃等16人擬具「社會救助法第二十四條條文修正草案」案。\n二十六、委員吳沛憶等16人擬具「社會救助法部分條文修正草案」案。\n二十七、委員邱鎮軍等24人擬具「社會救助法第五條之二條文修正草案」案。\n二十八、委員游顥等17人擬具「社會救助法第五條之一及第五條之二條文修正草案」案。\n二十九、委員翁曉玲等16人擬具「社會救助法第五條之二條文修正草案」案。\n三十、委員馬文君等16人擬具「社會救助法第五條之二條文修正草案」案。\n【僅詢答】）","type":"Clip","date":"2025-07-07","start_time":"2025-07-07T11:55:30+08:00","end_time":"2025-07-07T12:07:17+08:00","duration":707,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第3會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第19次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":3,"sessionTimes":19,"committees":[26],"id":"委員會-11-3-26-19"},"features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"transcript":{"id":"163014","pyannote":{"name":"ronny","tool":"pyannote","data":{"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/163014","tool":"pyannote","id":"163014-pyannote"},"job_id":"VWkBHIOc2Nx5Wt73","queued_at":"2025-07-07 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\"end\": 699.566, \"score\": 0.824}, {\"word\": \"內\"}, {\"word\": \"要\", \"start\": 699.566, \"end\": 700.466, \"score\": 0.94}, {\"word\": \"兌\"}, {\"word\": \"現\"}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 700.466, \"end\": 700.486, \"score\": 0.948}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:07,236 --> 00:00:09,840\n今天討論有關於社會救助法的修正\n\n2\n00:00:19,963 --> 00:00:43,782\n那其實支持問題的核心也就是我國目前社會救助法有關於對於低收入戶世界上面一般所講的貧窮線的定義的檢討跟反省部長知不知道我國目前在貧窮線以下的人口佔全部人口的百分之多少2.56來我們來看一下\n\n3\n00:00:51,471 --> 00:01:16,152\n全世界最大的笑話台灣的貧窮率世界最低不同的組織有不同的公布但公布出來的結果台灣貧窮率世界最低不僅僅是超越美國、英國連韓國、日本跟我們都看不到台灣的車尾燈\n\n4\n00:01:17,930 --> 00:01:39,609\n部長,你覺得這個有反映現實的狀況嗎?非常感謝黃國昌委員的一個指教我跟委員報告,委員你現在所引用的從美國到日本基本上都是相對貧窮率台灣的部分是社會救助法的領取這兩個是不一樣的概念\n\n5\n00:01:40,650 --> 00:02:06,366\n如果說以日本為例日本的話15.7但是日本的社會救助領取是1.58而台灣的部分報告委員這個部分可能有點問題1.3是屬於低收如果再加計中低的話那台灣是2.58以上報告謝謝對啊那從1.5到2.5我的問題一樣嘛所以我剛剛跟你講嘛不同的人不同的單位那他們採集的標準可能不太一樣嘛\n\n6\n00:02:06,886 --> 00:02:31,838\n但我最關心的事情是什麼我最關心的事情是從不同採集的標準從各個不同相關的調查呈現出來的台灣的貧窮線以下人口的比例是不是有反映現實這件事情不是只有我說非常多的學者非常多的NGO都拿出來檢討了我們就從具體的案子來看來\n\n7\n00:02:37,482 --> 00:03:02,424\n這個是台灣曾經發生過的悲劇包括了一個女失業,10年20在家中,皮膏骨剩下30公斤包括張化商兄弟,受到皮膏骨老大小五昏迷離世這個都是一個又一個我不願意把它稱之為社會新聞這個是發生在台灣各個角落的悲劇\n\n8\n00:03:03,975 --> 00:03:25,621\n這個悲劇的發生從政府的角度上面來講第一個該反省的我們的政府說社會安全網現在已經到2.0了嘛不管是社會安全網幾點幾你要問的第一個問題是說他們明明是應該被接住的人為什麼沒有接住部長你知道他們符合提收入戶的條件嗎你知不知道\n\n9\n00:03:30,629 --> 00:03:55,534\n你知道嗎?他們有沒有符合低收入戶的條件?因為這個比較是在2022跟2017的事情所以我不是很了解他們當時是符合我問你社會救助法有關於低收入戶我們對於所謂最低生活上面的需要給他援助的法律上面的基準最後一次修正是什麼時候?\n\n10\n00:03:59,233 --> 00:04:27,864\n最後一次修正是什麼時候十年前為什麼我要拿過去這幾年的例子拿出來看2015年界定的基準後來一而再再而三發生這個悲劇告訴我們政府就是什麼這些是該接住沒有被接住的人等到悲劇發生了以後媒體大肆報導大家看了都很難過捐款\n\n11\n00:04:29,347 --> 00:04:56,278\n湧入但人都已經走了這些例子難道不應該成為我們痛定思痛要不要檢討貧窮線基準的參考依據嗎從2015年到現在喔我再進一步給你看當初賴清德總統下一頁這是他2023年公益社會五大方案\n\n12\n00:04:58,285 --> 00:04:58,346\n與時減跑劇就\n\n13\n00:05:02,030 --> 00:05:23,539\n與時俱進檢討貧窮線這不是我講的這賴清德說的證件開了然後呢有然後嗎部長有報告委員因為這個謝謝您的垂詢那這個的確是在我們的社會救助法的演繹當中是一個重要的議題還要研議多久需要研議多久請理事報告一下報告委員我現在兩點說明第一個\n\n14\n00:05:32,284 --> 00:06:01,244\n委員現在所說的台灣的舊貧窮線我必須要在這邊很負責任的說就OECD國家來說我們是高於他們為什麼因為我們是可支配所得的60%而OECD國家是50%這第一點更正你講的啦是形式上面嘴巴講的基準嘛相關的所謂可支配所得到底是怎麼定義的這是按照我們那個再回去仔細看清楚啦德國是這樣定義的嗎跟台灣定義一樣嗎包委員德國就是這樣\n\n15\n00:06:02,385 --> 00:06:29,311\n進收入欸對沒錯對啊我可以在這邊很負責任的說就是所謂的可支配所得這是第一個說明台灣現在目前最大問題並不是貧窮限路問題而是我們現在目前的三個一個是動產不動產還有設算所得這點我承認那所以我們現在目前也會根據這個部分現在還需要多久包圍我們現在目前我們現在之前我們也預告了我們現在目前來收集各方還需要多久\n\n16\n00:06:30,672 --> 00:06:39,644\n我們就會趕快來提出啊現在目前就是各方有很多很多我再說一次啦要檢討貧窮線不是我說的是賴清德說的報告委員這個裡面對啊我們就與時機我有說錯嗎\n\n17\n00:06:47,369 --> 00:07:13,128\n那你當初賴清德提政見的時候你就講啊報告賴總統總統參選人問題不是貧窮縣的問題你提的解方講錯了為什麼該接住的人沒有接住不是貧窮縣的問題賴清德當初就不是這樣講的啊啊你們說要檢討沒有關係啊所以我現在問你進度到哪裡什麼時候會提出來啊今天如果是2024年5月20號\n\n18\n00:07:15,441 --> 00:07:38,189\n我問這個問題可能給你們準備的時間太短了上任一年多咧上任一年多我問你什麼時候要提出來然後你跟我講說你們要繼續研議那我能不能具體請教你要研議到什麼時候可以嗎還是要研議到2028年需要研議到什麼時候才會提出來因為這裡面我剛剛也說了嘛涉及到的問題很多嘛\n\n19\n00:07:39,321 --> 00:07:54,830\n所以還要延續多久盡量盡快盡速全部都是形容詞來部長下一個問題不要說你們不敢承諾的啦即使是你們承諾的下一頁有做到嗎有做到嗎非常多婦女的朋友大家關心的有關於狼醫的資訊平台在下一頁\n\n20\n00:08:09,005 --> 00:08:33,448\n你們一再飄飄這個是醫改會講的人家講的沒有錯我們一個月讓大家看下一頁去年年底你說要延續公布啊信心的名單就是12月30號你做的承諾嘛對吧還記得吧下一頁今年1月衛福部允諾三個月內完成有完成嗎\n\n21\n00:08:35,274 --> 00:09:02,611\n我們都一直在內部跟不斷的在研議嘛來看一下當初決議的內容是怎麼講的衛福部要啟動並完成揭露平台建置作業這是社福二環委員會在今年1月2號通過的臨時提案你們答應三個月內要完成有完成嗎\n\n22\n00:09:05,120 --> 00:09:16,707\n所以我剛才說嘛不要說沒有押日期的啦沒有押日期的就不敢講了嘛持續研議看你要研議到什麼時候嘛阿有押日期的都跳票了部長是這樣對嗎\n\n23\n00:09:21,735 --> 00:09:50,177\n有沒有需要檢討需要我們會加緊腳步還需要多久一個月之內就把那個如果一個月之內這次又跳票了不會跳票確定不會跳票確定用你部長的位置擔保確定不會跳票這是應該要做的應該要做的對啊今年1月2號就知道應該要做了因為的確有在研究委員報告真的一直在研究因為他牽涉到比較\n\n24\n00:09:51,438 --> 00:10:18,604\n我們要考慮到他的法律的根據我就請教部長這件事情是今天才知道嗎當然我們一直在做今年1月初不知道嗎你去年做承諾的時候不知道嗎法規的狀態是什麼法律有沒有充分的授權在目前法規的狀態之下可以做到什麼程度如果不夠的話要推動什麼樣子的修法這個是早就知道的事情這不是今天才知道的事情\n\n25\n00:10:20,182 --> 00:10:32,953\n如果今天才知道這個事情我今天逼你要你給個答案是我不對從去年就承諾的事情1月又做了決議搞到現在7月了還持續在研議這樣對嗎\n\n26\n00:10:37,253 --> 00:11:06,169\n我們一直都在努力在研議都有進度啦那因為現在就是也跟司法院這邊來討論怎麼樣來先把在法律上可以的我們先做非常多我這樣說啦我對於醫界的前輩我在這邊質詢過很多次我對於所有的醫護同仁他們的辛勞我都是感念在心而且對他們權益的保障\n\n27\n00:11:07,233 --> 00:11:27,589\n對於他們權益相關勞動權益的增進台灣民眾黨立法院黨團是從來沒有停下腳步我們都全力支持但是如果是這種事情的話台灣社會沒有人可以容忍台灣也沒有一個婦女可以容忍我不希望因為衛福部的怠惰\n\n28\n00:11:28,703 --> 00:11:40,486\n又增加了更多的被害人我這樣講部長應該聽得懂我希望今天部長所做的承諾一個月之內要兌現好謝謝\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n7236\t9840\t今天討論有關於社會救助法的修正\n19963\t43782\t那其實支持問題的核心也就是我國目前社會救助法有關於對於低收入戶世界上面一般所講的貧窮線的定義的檢討跟反省部長知不知道我國目前在貧窮線以下的人口佔全部人口的百分之多少2.56來我們來看一下\n51471\t76152\t全世界最大的笑話台灣的貧窮率世界最低不同的組織有不同的公布但公布出來的結果台灣貧窮率世界最低不僅僅是超越美國、英國連韓國、日本跟我們都看不到台灣的車尾燈\n77930\t99609\t部長,你覺得這個有反映現實的狀況嗎?非常感謝黃國昌委員的一個指教我跟委員報告,委員你現在所引用的從美國到日本基本上都是相對貧窮率台灣的部分是社會救助法的領取這兩個是不一樣的概念\n100650\t126366\t如果說以日本為例 日本的話15.7但是日本的社會救助領取是1.58而台灣的部分 報告委員 這個部分可能有點問題1.3是屬於低收如果再加計中低的話 那台灣是2.58以上報告 謝謝對啊 那從1.5到2.5 我的問題一樣嘛所以我剛剛跟你講嘛 不同的人不同的單位那他們採集的標準可能不太一樣嘛\n126886\t151838\t但我最關心的事情是什麼我最關心的事情是從不同採集的標準從各個不同相關的調查呈現出來的台灣的貧窮線以下人口的比例是不是有反映現實這件事情不是只有我說非常多的學者非常多的NGO都拿出來檢討了我們就從具體的案子來看來\n157482\t182424\t這個是台灣曾經發生過的悲劇包括了一個女失業,10年20在家中,皮膏骨剩下30公斤包括張化商兄弟,受到皮膏骨老大小五昏迷離世這個都是一個又一個我不願意把它稱之為社會新聞這個是發生在台灣各個角落的悲劇\n183975\t205621\t這個悲劇的發生從政府的角度上面來講第一個該反省的我們的政府說社會安全網現在已經到2.0了嘛不管是社會安全網幾點幾你要問的第一個問題是說他們明明是應該被接住的人為什麼沒有接住部長你知道他們符合提收入戶的條件嗎你知不知道\n210629\t235534\t你知道嗎?他們有沒有符合低收入戶的條件?因為這個比較是在2022跟2017的事情所以我不是很了解他們當時是符合我問你社會救助法有關於低收入戶我們對於所謂最低生活上面的需要給他援助的法律上面的基準最後一次修正是什麼時候?\n239233\t267864\t最後一次修正是什麼時候十年前為什麼我要拿過去這幾年的例子拿出來看2015年界定的基準後來一而再再而三發生這個悲劇告訴我們政府就是什麼這些是該接住沒有被接住的人等到悲劇發生了以後媒體大肆報導大家看了都很難過捐款\n269347\t296278\t湧入但人都已經走了這些例子難道不應該成為我們痛定思痛要不要檢討貧窮線基準的參考依據嗎從2015年到現在喔我再進一步給你看當初賴清德總統下一頁這是他2023年公益社會五大方案\n298285\t298346\t與時減跑劇就\n302030\t323539\t與時俱進檢討貧窮線這不是我講的這賴清德說的證件開了然後呢有然後嗎 部長有 報告委員因為這個謝謝您的垂詢那這個的確是在我們的社會救助法的演繹當中是一個重要的議題還要研議多久需要研議多久請理事報告一下報告委員我現在兩點說明第一個\n332284\t361244\t委員現在所說的台灣的舊貧窮線我必須要在這邊很負責任的說就OECD國家來說我們是高於他們為什麼因為我們是可支配所得的60%而OECD國家是50%這第一點更正你講的啦是形式上面嘴巴講的基準嘛相關的所謂可支配所得到底是怎麼定義的這是按照我們那個再回去仔細看清楚啦德國是這樣定義的嗎跟台灣定義一樣嗎包委員德國就是這樣\n362385\t389311\t進收入欸對沒錯對啊我可以在這邊很負責任的說就是所謂的可支配所得這是第一個說明台灣現在目前最大問題並不是貧窮限路問題而是我們現在目前的三個一個是動產不動產還有設算所得這點我承認那所以我們現在目前也會根據這個部分現在還需要多久包圍我們現在目前我們現在之前我們也預告了我們現在目前來收集各方還需要多久\n390672\t399644\t我們就會趕快來提出啊現在目前就是各方有很多很多我再說一次啦要檢討貧窮線不是我說的是賴清德說的報告委員這個裡面對啊我們就與時機我有說錯嗎\n407369\t433128\t那你當初賴清德提政見的時候你就講啊報告賴總統總統參選人問題不是貧窮縣的問題你提的解方講錯了為什麼該接住的人沒有接住不是貧窮縣的問題賴清德當初就不是這樣講的啊啊你們說要檢討沒有關係啊所以我現在問你進度到哪裡什麼時候會提出來啊今天如果是2024年5月20號\n435441\t458189\t我問這個問題可能給你們準備的時間太短了上任一年多咧上任一年多我問你什麼時候要提出來然後你跟我講說你們要繼續研議那我能不能具體請教你要研議到什麼時候可以嗎還是要研議到2028年需要研議到什麼時候才會提出來因為這裡面我剛剛也說了嘛涉及到的問題很多嘛\n459321\t474830\t所以還要延續多久盡量 盡快 盡速全部都是形容詞來 部長 下一個問題不要說你們不敢承諾的啦即使是你們承諾的 下一頁有做到嗎有做到嗎非常多婦女的朋友大家關心的有關於狼醫的資訊平台 在下一頁\n489005\t513448\t你們一再飄飄這個是醫改會講的人家講的沒有錯我們一個月讓大家看下一頁去年年底你說要延續公布啊信心的名單就是12月30號你做的承諾嘛對吧還記得吧下一頁今年1月衛福部允諾三個月內完成有完成嗎\n515274\t542611\t我們都一直在內部跟不斷的在研議嘛來看一下當初決議的內容是怎麼講的衛福部要啟動並完成揭露平台建置作業這是社福二環委員會在今年1月2號通過的臨時提案你們答應三個月內要完成 有完成嗎\n545120\t556707\t所以我剛才說嘛不要說沒有押日期的啦沒有押日期的就不敢講了嘛持續研議看你要研議到什麼時候嘛阿有押日期的都跳票了部長 是這樣對嗎\n561735\t590177\t有沒有需要檢討需要我們會加緊腳步還需要多久一個月之內就把那個如果一個月之內這次又跳票了不會跳票確定不會跳票確定用你部長的位置擔保確定不會跳票這是應該要做的應該要做的對啊今年1月2號就知道應該要做了因為的確有在研究委員報告真的一直在研究因為他牽涉到比較\n591438\t618604\t我們要考慮到他的法律的根據我就請教部長這件事情是今天才知道嗎當然我們一直在做今年1月初不知道嗎你去年做承諾的時候不知道嗎法規的狀態是什麼法律有沒有充分的授權在目前法規的狀態之下可以做到什麼程度如果不夠的話要推動什麼樣子的修法這個是早就知道的事情這不是今天才知道的事情\n620182\t632953\t如果今天才知道這個事情我今天逼你要你給個答案是我不對從去年就承諾的事情1月又做了決議搞到現在7月了還持續在研議這樣對嗎\n637253\t666169\t我們一直都在努力在研議都有進度啦那因為現在就是也跟司法院這邊來討論怎麼樣來先把在法律上可以的我們先做非常多我這樣說啦我對於醫界的前輩我在這邊質詢過很多次我對於所有的醫護同仁他們的辛勞我都是感念在心而且對他們權益的保障\n667233\t687589\t對於他們權益相關勞動權益的增進台灣民眾黨立法院黨團是從來沒有停下腳步我們都全力支持但是如果是這種事情的話台灣社會沒有人可以容忍台灣也沒有一個婦女可以容忍我不希望因為衛福部的怠惰\n688703\t700486\t又增加了更多的被害人我這樣講部長應該聽得懂我希望今天部長所做的承諾一個月之內要兌現好謝謝\n","txt":"今天討論有關於社會救助法的修正\n那其實支持問題的核心也就是我國目前社會救助法有關於對於低收入戶世界上面一般所講的貧窮線的定義的檢討跟反省部長知不知道我國目前在貧窮線以下的人口佔全部人口的百分之多少2.56來我們來看一下\n全世界最大的笑話台灣的貧窮率世界最低不同的組織有不同的公布但公布出來的結果台灣貧窮率世界最低不僅僅是超越美國、英國連韓國、日本跟我們都看不到台灣的車尾燈\n部長,你覺得這個有反映現實的狀況嗎?非常感謝黃國昌委員的一個指教我跟委員報告,委員你現在所引用的從美國到日本基本上都是相對貧窮率台灣的部分是社會救助法的領取這兩個是不一樣的概念\n如果說以日本為例 日本的話15.7但是日本的社會救助領取是1.58而台灣的部分 報告委員 這個部分可能有點問題1.3是屬於低收如果再加計中低的話 那台灣是2.58以上報告 謝謝對啊 那從1.5到2.5 我的問題一樣嘛所以我剛剛跟你講嘛 不同的人不同的單位那他們採集的標準可能不太一樣嘛\n但我最關心的事情是什麼我最關心的事情是從不同採集的標準從各個不同相關的調查呈現出來的台灣的貧窮線以下人口的比例是不是有反映現實這件事情不是只有我說非常多的學者非常多的NGO都拿出來檢討了我們就從具體的案子來看來\n這個是台灣曾經發生過的悲劇包括了一個女失業,10年20在家中,皮膏骨剩下30公斤包括張化商兄弟,受到皮膏骨老大小五昏迷離世這個都是一個又一個我不願意把它稱之為社會新聞這個是發生在台灣各個角落的悲劇\n這個悲劇的發生從政府的角度上面來講第一個該反省的我們的政府說社會安全網現在已經到2.0了嘛不管是社會安全網幾點幾你要問的第一個問題是說他們明明是應該被接住的人為什麼沒有接住部長你知道他們符合提收入戶的條件嗎你知不知道\n你知道嗎?他們有沒有符合低收入戶的條件?因為這個比較是在2022跟2017的事情所以我不是很了解他們當時是符合我問你社會救助法有關於低收入戶我們對於所謂最低生活上面的需要給他援助的法律上面的基準最後一次修正是什麼時候?\n最後一次修正是什麼時候十年前為什麼我要拿過去這幾年的例子拿出來看2015年界定的基準後來一而再再而三發生這個悲劇告訴我們政府就是什麼這些是該接住沒有被接住的人等到悲劇發生了以後媒體大肆報導大家看了都很難過捐款\n湧入但人都已經走了這些例子難道不應該成為我們痛定思痛要不要檢討貧窮線基準的參考依據嗎從2015年到現在喔我再進一步給你看當初賴清德總統下一頁這是他2023年公益社會五大方案\n與時減跑劇就\n與時俱進檢討貧窮線這不是我講的這賴清德說的證件開了然後呢有然後嗎 部長有 報告委員因為這個謝謝您的垂詢那這個的確是在我們的社會救助法的演繹當中是一個重要的議題還要研議多久需要研議多久請理事報告一下報告委員我現在兩點說明第一個\n委員現在所說的台灣的舊貧窮線我必須要在這邊很負責任的說就OECD國家來說我們是高於他們為什麼因為我們是可支配所得的60%而OECD國家是50%這第一點更正你講的啦是形式上面嘴巴講的基準嘛相關的所謂可支配所得到底是怎麼定義的這是按照我們那個再回去仔細看清楚啦德國是這樣定義的嗎跟台灣定義一樣嗎包委員德國就是這樣\n進收入欸對沒錯對啊我可以在這邊很負責任的說就是所謂的可支配所得這是第一個說明台灣現在目前最大問題並不是貧窮限路問題而是我們現在目前的三個一個是動產不動產還有設算所得這點我承認那所以我們現在目前也會根據這個部分現在還需要多久包圍我們現在目前我們現在之前我們也預告了我們現在目前來收集各方還需要多久\n我們就會趕快來提出啊現在目前就是各方有很多很多我再說一次啦要檢討貧窮線不是我說的是賴清德說的報告委員這個裡面對啊我們就與時機我有說錯嗎\n那你當初賴清德提政見的時候你就講啊報告賴總統總統參選人問題不是貧窮縣的問題你提的解方講錯了為什麼該接住的人沒有接住不是貧窮縣的問題賴清德當初就不是這樣講的啊啊你們說要檢討沒有關係啊所以我現在問你進度到哪裡什麼時候會提出來啊今天如果是2024年5月20號\n我問這個問題可能給你們準備的時間太短了上任一年多咧上任一年多我問你什麼時候要提出來然後你跟我講說你們要繼續研議那我能不能具體請教你要研議到什麼時候可以嗎還是要研議到2028年需要研議到什麼時候才會提出來因為這裡面我剛剛也說了嘛涉及到的問題很多嘛\n所以還要延續多久盡量 盡快 盡速全部都是形容詞來 部長 下一個問題不要說你們不敢承諾的啦即使是你們承諾的 下一頁有做到嗎有做到嗎非常多婦女的朋友大家關心的有關於狼醫的資訊平台 在下一頁\n你們一再飄飄這個是醫改會講的人家講的沒有錯我們一個月讓大家看下一頁去年年底你說要延續公布啊信心的名單就是12月30號你做的承諾嘛對吧還記得吧下一頁今年1月衛福部允諾三個月內完成有完成嗎\n我們都一直在內部跟不斷的在研議嘛來看一下當初決議的內容是怎麼講的衛福部要啟動並完成揭露平台建置作業這是社福二環委員會在今年1月2號通過的臨時提案你們答應三個月內要完成 有完成嗎\n所以我剛才說嘛不要說沒有押日期的啦沒有押日期的就不敢講了嘛持續研議看你要研議到什麼時候嘛阿有押日期的都跳票了部長 是這樣對嗎\n有沒有需要檢討需要我們會加緊腳步還需要多久一個月之內就把那個如果一個月之內這次又跳票了不會跳票確定不會跳票確定用你部長的位置擔保確定不會跳票這是應該要做的應該要做的對啊今年1月2號就知道應該要做了因為的確有在研究委員報告真的一直在研究因為他牽涉到比較\n我們要考慮到他的法律的根據我就請教部長這件事情是今天才知道嗎當然我們一直在做今年1月初不知道嗎你去年做承諾的時候不知道嗎法規的狀態是什麼法律有沒有充分的授權在目前法規的狀態之下可以做到什麼程度如果不夠的話要推動什麼樣子的修法這個是早就知道的事情這不是今天才知道的事情\n如果今天才知道這個事情我今天逼你要你給個答案是我不對從去年就承諾的事情1月又做了決議搞到現在7月了還持續在研議這樣對嗎\n我們一直都在努力在研議都有進度啦那因為現在就是也跟司法院這邊來討論怎麼樣來先把在法律上可以的我們先做非常多我這樣說啦我對於醫界的前輩我在這邊質詢過很多次我對於所有的醫護同仁他們的辛勞我都是感念在心而且對他們權益的保障\n對於他們權益相關勞動權益的增進台灣民眾黨立法院黨團是從來沒有停下腳步我們都全力支持但是如果是這種事情的話台灣社會沒有人可以容忍台灣也沒有一個婦女可以容忍我不希望因為衛福部的怠惰\n又增加了更多的被害人我這樣講部長應該聽得懂我希望今天部長所做的承諾一個月之內要兌現好謝謝\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:07.236 --> 00:09.840\n今天討論有關於社會救助法的修正\n\n00:19.963 --> 00:43.782\n那其實支持問題的核心也就是我國目前社會救助法有關於對於低收入戶世界上面一般所講的貧窮線的定義的檢討跟反省部長知不知道我國目前在貧窮線以下的人口佔全部人口的百分之多少2.56來我們來看一下\n\n00:51.471 --> 01:16.152\n全世界最大的笑話台灣的貧窮率世界最低不同的組織有不同的公布但公布出來的結果台灣貧窮率世界最低不僅僅是超越美國、英國連韓國、日本跟我們都看不到台灣的車尾燈\n\n01:17.930 --> 01:39.609\n部長,你覺得這個有反映現實的狀況嗎?非常感謝黃國昌委員的一個指教我跟委員報告,委員你現在所引用的從美國到日本基本上都是相對貧窮率台灣的部分是社會救助法的領取這兩個是不一樣的概念\n\n01:40.650 --> 02:06.366\n如果說以日本為例日本的話15.7但是日本的社會救助領取是1.58而台灣的部分報告委員這個部分可能有點問題1.3是屬於低收如果再加計中低的話那台灣是2.58以上報告謝謝對啊那從1.5到2.5我的問題一樣嘛所以我剛剛跟你講嘛不同的人不同的單位那他們採集的標準可能不太一樣嘛\n\n02:06.886 --> 02:31.838\n但我最關心的事情是什麼我最關心的事情是從不同採集的標準從各個不同相關的調查呈現出來的台灣的貧窮線以下人口的比例是不是有反映現實這件事情不是只有我說非常多的學者非常多的NGO都拿出來檢討了我們就從具體的案子來看來\n\n02:37.482 --> 03:02.424\n這個是台灣曾經發生過的悲劇包括了一個女失業,10年20在家中,皮膏骨剩下30公斤包括張化商兄弟,受到皮膏骨老大小五昏迷離世這個都是一個又一個我不願意把它稱之為社會新聞這個是發生在台灣各個角落的悲劇\n\n03:03.975 --> 03:25.621\n這個悲劇的發生從政府的角度上面來講第一個該反省的我們的政府說社會安全網現在已經到2.0了嘛不管是社會安全網幾點幾你要問的第一個問題是說他們明明是應該被接住的人為什麼沒有接住部長你知道他們符合提收入戶的條件嗎你知不知道\n\n03:30.629 --> 03:55.534\n你知道嗎?他們有沒有符合低收入戶的條件?因為這個比較是在2022跟2017的事情所以我不是很了解他們當時是符合我問你社會救助法有關於低收入戶我們對於所謂最低生活上面的需要給他援助的法律上面的基準最後一次修正是什麼時候?\n\n03:59.233 --> 04:27.864\n最後一次修正是什麼時候十年前為什麼我要拿過去這幾年的例子拿出來看2015年界定的基準後來一而再再而三發生這個悲劇告訴我們政府就是什麼這些是該接住沒有被接住的人等到悲劇發生了以後媒體大肆報導大家看了都很難過捐款\n\n04:29.347 --> 04:56.278\n湧入但人都已經走了這些例子難道不應該成為我們痛定思痛要不要檢討貧窮線基準的參考依據嗎從2015年到現在喔我再進一步給你看當初賴清德總統下一頁這是他2023年公益社會五大方案\n\n04:58.285 --> 04:58.346\n與時減跑劇就\n\n05:02.030 --> 05:23.539\n與時俱進檢討貧窮線這不是我講的這賴清德說的證件開了然後呢有然後嗎部長有報告委員因為這個謝謝您的垂詢那這個的確是在我們的社會救助法的演繹當中是一個重要的議題還要研議多久需要研議多久請理事報告一下報告委員我現在兩點說明第一個\n\n05:32.284 --> 06:01.244\n委員現在所說的台灣的舊貧窮線我必須要在這邊很負責任的說就OECD國家來說我們是高於他們為什麼因為我們是可支配所得的60%而OECD國家是50%這第一點更正你講的啦是形式上面嘴巴講的基準嘛相關的所謂可支配所得到底是怎麼定義的這是按照我們那個再回去仔細看清楚啦德國是這樣定義的嗎跟台灣定義一樣嗎包委員德國就是這樣\n\n06:02.385 --> 06:29.311\n進收入欸對沒錯對啊我可以在這邊很負責任的說就是所謂的可支配所得這是第一個說明台灣現在目前最大問題並不是貧窮限路問題而是我們現在目前的三個一個是動產不動產還有設算所得這點我承認那所以我們現在目前也會根據這個部分現在還需要多久包圍我們現在目前我們現在之前我們也預告了我們現在目前來收集各方還需要多久\n\n06:30.672 --> 06:39.644\n我們就會趕快來提出啊現在目前就是各方有很多很多我再說一次啦要檢討貧窮線不是我說的是賴清德說的報告委員這個裡面對啊我們就與時機我有說錯嗎\n\n06:47.369 --> 07:13.128\n那你當初賴清德提政見的時候你就講啊報告賴總統總統參選人問題不是貧窮縣的問題你提的解方講錯了為什麼該接住的人沒有接住不是貧窮縣的問題賴清德當初就不是這樣講的啊啊你們說要檢討沒有關係啊所以我現在問你進度到哪裡什麼時候會提出來啊今天如果是2024年5月20號\n\n07:15.441 --> 07:38.189\n我問這個問題可能給你們準備的時間太短了上任一年多咧上任一年多我問你什麼時候要提出來然後你跟我講說你們要繼續研議那我能不能具體請教你要研議到什麼時候可以嗎還是要研議到2028年需要研議到什麼時候才會提出來因為這裡面我剛剛也說了嘛涉及到的問題很多嘛\n\n07:39.321 --> 07:54.830\n所以還要延續多久盡量盡快盡速全部都是形容詞來部長下一個問題不要說你們不敢承諾的啦即使是你們承諾的下一頁有做到嗎有做到嗎非常多婦女的朋友大家關心的有關於狼醫的資訊平台在下一頁\n\n08:09.005 --> 08:33.448\n你們一再飄飄這個是醫改會講的人家講的沒有錯我們一個月讓大家看下一頁去年年底你說要延續公布啊信心的名單就是12月30號你做的承諾嘛對吧還記得吧下一頁今年1月衛福部允諾三個月內完成有完成嗎\n\n08:35.274 --> 09:02.611\n我們都一直在內部跟不斷的在研議嘛來看一下當初決議的內容是怎麼講的衛福部要啟動並完成揭露平台建置作業這是社福二環委員會在今年1月2號通過的臨時提案你們答應三個月內要完成有完成嗎\n\n09:05.120 --> 09:16.707\n所以我剛才說嘛不要說沒有押日期的啦沒有押日期的就不敢講了嘛持續研議看你要研議到什麼時候嘛阿有押日期的都跳票了部長是這樣對嗎\n\n09:21.735 --> 09:50.177\n有沒有需要檢討需要我們會加緊腳步還需要多久一個月之內就把那個如果一個月之內這次又跳票了不會跳票確定不會跳票確定用你部長的位置擔保確定不會跳票這是應該要做的應該要做的對啊今年1月2號就知道應該要做了因為的確有在研究委員報告真的一直在研究因為他牽涉到比較\n\n09:51.438 --> 10:18.604\n我們要考慮到他的法律的根據我就請教部長這件事情是今天才知道嗎當然我們一直在做今年1月初不知道嗎你去年做承諾的時候不知道嗎法規的狀態是什麼法律有沒有充分的授權在目前法規的狀態之下可以做到什麼程度如果不夠的話要推動什麼樣子的修法這個是早就知道的事情這不是今天才知道的事情\n\n10:20.182 --> 10:32.953\n如果今天才知道這個事情我今天逼你要你給個答案是我不對從去年就承諾的事情1月又做了決議搞到現在7月了還持續在研議這樣對嗎\n\n10:37.253 --> 11:06.169\n我們一直都在努力在研議都有進度啦那因為現在就是也跟司法院這邊來討論怎麼樣來先把在法律上可以的我們先做非常多我這樣說啦我對於醫界的前輩我在這邊質詢過很多次我對於所有的醫護同仁他們的辛勞我都是感念在心而且對他們權益的保障\n\n11:07.233 --> 11:27.589\n對於他們權益相關勞動權益的增進台灣民眾黨立法院黨團是從來沒有停下腳步我們都全力支持但是如果是這種事情的話台灣社會沒有人可以容忍台灣也沒有一個婦女可以容忍我不希望因為衛福部的怠惰\n\n11:28.703 --> 11:40.486\n又增加了更多的被害人我這樣講部長應該聽得懂我希望今天部長所做的承諾一個月之內要兌現好謝謝\n\n","segments":[{"start":7.236,"end":9.84,"text":"今天討論有關於社會救助法的修正"},{"start":19.963,"end":43.782,"text":"那其實支持問題的核心也就是我國目前社會救助法有關於對於低收入戶世界上面一般所講的貧窮線的定義的檢討跟反省部長知不知道我國目前在貧窮線以下的人口佔全部人口的百分之多少2.56來我們來看一下"},{"start":51.471,"end":76.152,"text":"全世界最大的笑話台灣的貧窮率世界最低不同的組織有不同的公布但公布出來的結果台灣貧窮率世界最低不僅僅是超越美國、英國連韓國、日本跟我們都看不到台灣的車尾燈"},{"start":77.93,"end":99.609,"text":"部長,你覺得這個有反映現實的狀況嗎?非常感謝黃國昌委員的一個指教我跟委員報告,委員你現在所引用的從美國到日本基本上都是相對貧窮率台灣的部分是社會救助法的領取這兩個是不一樣的概念"},{"start":100.65,"end":126.366,"text":"如果說以日本為例 日本的話15.7但是日本的社會救助領取是1.58而台灣的部分 報告委員 這個部分可能有點問題1.3是屬於低收如果再加計中低的話 那台灣是2.58以上報告 謝謝對啊 那從1.5到2.5 我的問題一樣嘛所以我剛剛跟你講嘛 不同的人不同的單位那他們採集的標準可能不太一樣嘛"},{"start":126.886,"end":151.838,"text":"但我最關心的事情是什麼我最關心的事情是從不同採集的標準從各個不同相關的調查呈現出來的台灣的貧窮線以下人口的比例是不是有反映現實這件事情不是只有我說非常多的學者非常多的NGO都拿出來檢討了我們就從具體的案子來看來"},{"start":157.482,"end":182.424,"text":"這個是台灣曾經發生過的悲劇包括了一個女失業,10年20在家中,皮膏骨剩下30公斤包括張化商兄弟,受到皮膏骨老大小五昏迷離世這個都是一個又一個我不願意把它稱之為社會新聞這個是發生在台灣各個角落的悲劇"},{"start":183.975,"end":205.621,"text":"這個悲劇的發生從政府的角度上面來講第一個該反省的我們的政府說社會安全網現在已經到2.0了嘛不管是社會安全網幾點幾你要問的第一個問題是說他們明明是應該被接住的人為什麼沒有接住部長你知道他們符合提收入戶的條件嗎你知不知道"},{"start":210.629,"end":235.534,"text":"你知道嗎?他們有沒有符合低收入戶的條件?因為這個比較是在2022跟2017的事情所以我不是很了解他們當時是符合我問你社會救助法有關於低收入戶我們對於所謂最低生活上面的需要給他援助的法律上面的基準最後一次修正是什麼時候?"},{"start":239.233,"end":267.864,"text":"最後一次修正是什麼時候十年前為什麼我要拿過去這幾年的例子拿出來看2015年界定的基準後來一而再再而三發生這個悲劇告訴我們政府就是什麼這些是該接住沒有被接住的人等到悲劇發生了以後媒體大肆報導大家看了都很難過捐款"},{"start":269.347,"end":296.278,"text":"湧入但人都已經走了這些例子難道不應該成為我們痛定思痛要不要檢討貧窮線基準的參考依據嗎從2015年到現在喔我再進一步給你看當初賴清德總統下一頁這是他2023年公益社會五大方案"},{"start":298.285,"end":298.346,"text":"與時減跑劇就"},{"start":302.03,"end":323.539,"text":"與時俱進檢討貧窮線這不是我講的這賴清德說的證件開了然後呢有然後嗎 部長有 報告委員因為這個謝謝您的垂詢那這個的確是在我們的社會救助法的演繹當中是一個重要的議題還要研議多久需要研議多久請理事報告一下報告委員我現在兩點說明第一個"},{"start":332.284,"end":361.244,"text":"委員現在所說的台灣的舊貧窮線我必須要在這邊很負責任的說就OECD國家來說我們是高於他們為什麼因為我們是可支配所得的60%而OECD國家是50%這第一點更正你講的啦是形式上面嘴巴講的基準嘛相關的所謂可支配所得到底是怎麼定義的這是按照我們那個再回去仔細看清楚啦德國是這樣定義的嗎跟台灣定義一樣嗎包委員德國就是這樣"},{"start":362.385,"end":389.311,"text":"進收入欸對沒錯對啊我可以在這邊很負責任的說就是所謂的可支配所得這是第一個說明台灣現在目前最大問題並不是貧窮限路問題而是我們現在目前的三個一個是動產不動產還有設算所得這點我承認那所以我們現在目前也會根據這個部分現在還需要多久包圍我們現在目前我們現在之前我們也預告了我們現在目前來收集各方還需要多久"},{"start":390.672,"end":399.644,"text":"我們就會趕快來提出啊現在目前就是各方有很多很多我再說一次啦要檢討貧窮線不是我說的是賴清德說的報告委員這個裡面對啊我們就與時機我有說錯嗎"},{"start":407.369,"end":433.128,"text":"那你當初賴清德提政見的時候你就講啊報告賴總統總統參選人問題不是貧窮縣的問題你提的解方講錯了為什麼該接住的人沒有接住不是貧窮縣的問題賴清德當初就不是這樣講的啊啊你們說要檢討沒有關係啊所以我現在問你進度到哪裡什麼時候會提出來啊今天如果是2024年5月20號"},{"start":435.441,"end":458.189,"text":"我問這個問題可能給你們準備的時間太短了上任一年多咧上任一年多我問你什麼時候要提出來然後你跟我講說你們要繼續研議那我能不能具體請教你要研議到什麼時候可以嗎還是要研議到2028年需要研議到什麼時候才會提出來因為這裡面我剛剛也說了嘛涉及到的問題很多嘛"},{"start":459.321,"end":474.83,"text":"所以還要延續多久盡量 盡快 盡速全部都是形容詞來 部長 下一個問題不要說你們不敢承諾的啦即使是你們承諾的 下一頁有做到嗎有做到嗎非常多婦女的朋友大家關心的有關於狼醫的資訊平台 在下一頁"},{"start":489.005,"end":513.448,"text":"你們一再飄飄這個是醫改會講的人家講的沒有錯我們一個月讓大家看下一頁去年年底你說要延續公布啊信心的名單就是12月30號你做的承諾嘛對吧還記得吧下一頁今年1月衛福部允諾三個月內完成有完成嗎"},{"start":515.274,"end":542.611,"text":"我們都一直在內部跟不斷的在研議嘛來看一下當初決議的內容是怎麼講的衛福部要啟動並完成揭露平台建置作業這是社福二環委員會在今年1月2號通過的臨時提案你們答應三個月內要完成 有完成嗎"},{"start":545.12,"end":556.707,"text":"所以我剛才說嘛不要說沒有押日期的啦沒有押日期的就不敢講了嘛持續研議看你要研議到什麼時候嘛阿有押日期的都跳票了部長 是這樣對嗎"},{"start":561.735,"end":590.177,"text":"有沒有需要檢討需要我們會加緊腳步還需要多久一個月之內就把那個如果一個月之內這次又跳票了不會跳票確定不會跳票確定用你部長的位置擔保確定不會跳票這是應該要做的應該要做的對啊今年1月2號就知道應該要做了因為的確有在研究委員報告真的一直在研究因為他牽涉到比較"},{"start":591.438,"end":618.604,"text":"我們要考慮到他的法律的根據我就請教部長這件事情是今天才知道嗎當然我們一直在做今年1月初不知道嗎你去年做承諾的時候不知道嗎法規的狀態是什麼法律有沒有充分的授權在目前法規的狀態之下可以做到什麼程度如果不夠的話要推動什麼樣子的修法這個是早就知道的事情這不是今天才知道的事情"},{"start":620.182,"end":632.953,"text":"如果今天才知道這個事情我今天逼你要你給個答案是我不對從去年就承諾的事情1月又做了決議搞到現在7月了還持續在研議這樣對嗎"},{"start":637.253,"end":666.169,"text":"我們一直都在努力在研議都有進度啦那因為現在就是也跟司法院這邊來討論怎麼樣來先把在法律上可以的我們先做非常多我這樣說啦我對於醫界的前輩我在這邊質詢過很多次我對於所有的醫護同仁他們的辛勞我都是感念在心而且對他們權益的保障"},{"start":667.233,"end":687.589,"text":"對於他們權益相關勞動權益的增進台灣民眾黨立法院黨團是從來沒有停下腳步我們都全力支持但是如果是這種事情的話台灣社會沒有人可以容忍台灣也沒有一個婦女可以容忍我不希望因為衛福部的怠惰"},{"start":688.703,"end":700.486,"text":"又增加了更多的被害人我這樣講部長應該聽得懂我希望今天部長所做的承諾一個月之內要兌現好謝謝"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":1154,"blocks":[["黃委員國昌：（11時55分）謝謝主席，麻煩請部長。"],["主席：請邱部長。"],["邱部長泰源：委員好。"],["黃委員國昌：部長好。今天討論有關於社會救助法的修正，其實直指問題的核心，也就是我國目前社會救助法有關低收入戶，在世界上一般所講的貧窮線定義的檢討跟反省。部長知不知道我國目前在貧窮線以下的人口，占全部人口的百分之多少？"],["邱部長泰源：2.56。"],["黃委員國昌：2.56。我們來看一下，全世界最大的笑話，臺灣的貧窮率是世界最低，不同的組織有不同的公布，但公布出來的結果，臺灣貧窮率世界最低，不僅超越美國、英國，連韓國、日本都看不到臺灣的車尾燈。部長，你覺得這個有反映現實的狀況嗎？"],["邱部長泰源：委員，可不可以容許呂次長跟你報告？"],["黃委員國昌：可以。"],["呂次長建德：非常感謝黃國昌委員的指教。我跟委員報告，委員現在所引用的從美國到日本，基本上都是相對貧窮率。臺灣的部分是社會救助法的領取，這兩個是不一樣的概念。如果以日本為例，日本是15.7，但是日本的社會救助領取是1.58，而臺灣的部分，報告委員，這個部分可能有點問題，1.3是屬於低收，如果再加計中低的話，臺灣是2.58，以上報告。謝謝。"],["黃委員國昌：對啊！從1.5到2.5，我的問題一樣嘛！所以我剛剛跟你講，不同的人、不同的單位，採計的標準可能不太一樣。但是我最關心的事情是什麼？我最關心的事情是，從不同採計的標準、從各個不同相關的調查，呈現出來的臺灣貧窮線以下人口的比例，是不是有反映現實？這件事情不是只有我說，是非常多的學者、非常多的NGO都拿出來檢討了。","我們從具體的案子來看，這些是臺灣曾經發生過的悲劇，包括一個女性失業10年餓死在家中，皮包骨剩下30公斤；包括彰化三兄弟瘦到皮包骨，老大下午昏迷離世。都是一個又一個，我不願意把它稱之為社會新聞，這個是發生在臺灣各個角落的悲劇啊！這個悲劇的發生，從政府的角度上面來講，第一個該反省的是，政府說社會安全網現在已經到2.0了，不管社會安全網是幾點幾，我要問的第一個問題是，他們明明應該是被接住的人，為什麼沒有接住？部長，你知道他們符合低收入戶的條件嗎？你知不知道？你知道嗎？他們有沒有符合低收入戶的條件？"],["邱部長泰源：因為這個是在2022跟2017的事情，所以我不是很瞭解他們當時是不是符合。"],["黃委員國昌：社會救助法有關於低收入戶對於所謂最低生活上面的需要，給他援助的法律上面的基準，最後一次修正是什麼時候？"],["邱部長泰源：10年前。"],["黃委員國昌：10年前嘛！為什麼我要拿過去這幾年的例子出來看？2015年界定的基準，後來一而再，再而三發生這個悲劇，是告訴政府什麼事？這些是該接住而沒有被接住的人，等到悲劇發生了以後，媒體大肆報導，大家看了都很難過，捐款湧入，但人都已經走了，這些例子難道不應該成為我們痛定思痛檢討貧窮線基準的參考依據嗎？"],["邱部長泰源：當然要。"],["黃委員國昌：從2015年到現在，我再進一步給你看，當初賴清德總統2023年提出公義社會5大方案、與時俱進檢討貧窮線，這不是我講的，這是賴清德說的，政見開了，然後呢？有然後嗎？部長。"],["邱部長泰源：有，報告委員，謝謝您的垂詢。這個的確是在我們社會救助法的研議當中，是一個……"],["黃委員國昌：還要研議多久？"],["邱部長泰源：是一個很重要的議題。"],["黃委員國昌：還要研議多久？需要研議多久？"],["邱部長泰源：請呂次長報告一下。"],["呂次長建德：報告委員，我現在兩點說明，第一，委員所說的臺灣貧窮線，我必須要在這邊很負責任地說，就OECD國家來說，我們是高於它們，為什麼？因為我們是可支配所得的60%，而OECD國家是50%，這是第一點更正；第二點……"],["黃委員國昌：你講的啦……"],["呂次長建德：報告委員……"],["黃委員國昌：是形式上面嘴巴講的基準，相關所謂的可支配所得到底是怎麼定義的？"],["呂次長建德：這是按照我們……"],["黃委員國昌：再回去仔細看清楚，德國是這樣定義的嗎？跟臺灣定義一樣嗎？"],["呂次長建德：報告委員，德國就是這樣。"],["黃委員國昌：淨收入耶！"],["呂次長建德：對，沒錯，我可以在這邊很負責任地說就是所謂的可支配所得，這是第一個說明。臺灣目前最重要的問題並不是貧窮線問題，而是三個：動產、不動產，還有設算所得。這點我承認，所以我們也會根據這個部分，現在……"],["黃委員國昌：還需要多久？"],["呂次長建德：報告委員，我們之前也預告了，我們目前蒐集各方意見，包括……"],["黃委員國昌：還需要多久？"],["呂次長建德：我們盡……我們就會趕快來提出，現在就是各方也有很多很多……"],["黃委員國昌：我再說一次，要檢討貧窮線不是我說的，是賴清德說的。"],["呂次長建德：報告委員，這裡面……對啊，我們就與時俱進。"],["黃委員國昌：我有說錯嗎？那當初賴清德提政見的時候，你就講啊，報告賴總統總統參選人，不是貧窮線的問題，你提的解方講錯了，為什麼該接住的人沒有接住，不是貧窮線的問題，賴清德當初就不是這樣講的啊！","你們說要檢討，沒有關係，所以我現在問你進度到哪裡，什麼時候會提出來？今天如果是2024年5月20日，我問這個問題可能給你們準備的時間太短了，上任一年多了耶！上任一年多，我問你什麼時候要提出來，然後你跟我講說你們要繼續研議，那我能不能具體請教你要研議到什麼時候，可以嗎？還是要研議到2028年？需要研議到什麼時候才會提出來？"],["呂次長建德：報告委員，因為這裡面我剛剛也說了……"],["黃委員國昌：涉及到的問題很多嘛，所以還要研議多久？"],["呂次長建德：報告委員，我們會趕快……"],["黃委員國昌：儘量？"],["呂次長建德：儘快。"],["黃委員國昌：儘快？"],["呂次長建德：對。"],["黃委員國昌：儘速？全部都是形容詞。來，部長下一個問題。"],["呂次長建德：謝謝委員。"],["黃委員國昌：不要說你們不敢承諾的，即使是你們承諾的，有做到嗎？非常多啊，婦女朋友大家關心的有關於狼醫資訊平臺，你們一再跳票，這個是醫改會講的，人家講的沒有錯。我們一個一個來看，去年年底你說要研議公布性侵的名單，就是12月30日你做了承諾，對吧，還記得吧？"],["邱部長泰源：是。"],["黃委員國昌：今年1月衛福部允諾3個月內完成，有完成嗎？"],["邱部長泰源：報告委員，我們都一直在研……內部跟……"],["黃委員國昌：不斷地在研議。"],["邱部長泰源：那個……"],["黃委員國昌：來看一下當初決議的內容是怎麼講的，衛福部要啟動並完成揭露平臺建置作業，有沒有？這是社會福利及衛生環境委員會在今年1月2日通過的臨時提案，你們答應3個月內要完成，有完成嗎？所以我剛剛才說，不要說沒有押日期的，沒有押日期的我就不敢講了，持續研議看要研議到什麼時候，有押日期的都跳票了，部長，這樣對嗎？有沒有需要檢討？"],["邱部長泰源：需要，我們會加緊腳步。"],["黃委員國昌：還需要多久？"],["邱部長泰源：1個月之內，就把那個……"],["黃委員國昌：如果1個月之內，這次又跳票咧？"],["邱部長泰源：不會，不會跳票。"],["黃委員國昌：確定不會跳票？"],["邱部長泰源：確定。"],["黃委員國昌：用你部長的位置擔保，確定不會跳票？"],["邱部長泰源：這是應該要做的。"],["黃委員國昌：對啊！今年1月2日就知道應該要做！"],["邱部長泰源：因為的確有在研議。"],["黃委員國昌：現在幾號了？"],["邱部長泰源：跟委員報告，真的一直在研議，因為牽涉到比較……我們要考慮到法律的根據。"],["黃委員國昌：我請教部長，這件事情是今天才知道嗎？"],["邱部長泰源：當然我們一直在做。"],["黃委員國昌：今年1月初不知道嗎？你去年做承諾的時候不知道嗎？法規的狀態是什麼，法律有沒有充分的授權，在目前法規的狀態之下可以做到什麼程度，如果不夠的話，要推動什麼樣子的修法？這些是早就知道的事情，不是今天才知道，如果今天才知道這個事情，我今天逼你，要你給個答案，是我不對，但這是從去年就承諾的事情，1月又做了決議，搞到現在7月了還在持續研議，這樣對嗎？"],["邱部長泰源：報告委員，我們一直都在……"],["黃委員國昌：在努力、在研議嘛！"],["邱部長泰源：都有進度啦，因為現在也跟司法院這邊討論，，怎麼樣來先把可以……"],["黃委員國昌：我這樣講好了……"],["邱部長泰源：在法律上可以的我們先做。"],["黃委員國昌：非常多，對於醫界的前輩，我在這邊質詢過很多次，我對於所有醫護同仁的辛勞都是感念在心，而且對於他們權益的保障、相關勞動權益的增進，台灣民眾黨立法院黨團從來沒有停下腳步，我們都全力支持。但如果是這種事情的話，臺灣社會沒有人可以容忍，臺灣也沒有一個婦女可以容忍，我不希望因為衛福部的怠惰，又增加了更多的被害人，我這樣講部長應該聽得懂，我希望……"],["邱部長泰源：我們絕對不容許，真的絕對不容許。"],["黃委員國昌：我希望今天部長所做的承諾，1個月之內要兌現。"],["邱部長泰源：好的。"],["黃委員國昌：好，謝謝。"],["邱部長泰源：謝謝委員。"],["主席：謝謝黃國昌委員的發言，也謝謝部長的答詢。","下一位鄭正鈐委員，鄭正鈐委員、鄭正鈐委員，鄭正鈐委員不在。","下一位張雅琳委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":262,"meet_id":"委員會-11-3-26-19","speakers":["劉建國","范雲","林月琴","楊瓊瓔","陳昭姿","王育敏","陳菁徽","林淑芬","涂權吉","王正旭","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","黃國昌","張雅琳","盧縣一","黃秀芳","楊曜","林楚茵","廖偉翔","蘇清泉","陳瑩"],"page_start":171,"meetingDate":["2025-07-07"],"gazette_id":"1146604","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1146604_00007"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第19次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"審查一、委員楊曜等17人擬具「社會救助法第十六條條文修正草案」案；二、委員范雲等17人擬\n具「社會救助法部分條文修正草案」案；三、委員謝衣鳯等16人擬具「社會救助法部分條文修正\n草案」案；四、委員黃秀芳等20人擬具「社會救助法第二條、第四條及第十四條條文修正草案」\n案；五、委員翁曉玲等18人擬具「社會救助法第十一條條文修正草案」案；六、委員黃捷等16人\n擬具「社會救助法第十六條條文修正草案」案；七、委員蔡其昌等 17 人擬具「社會救助法第四\n條、第四條之一及第五條條文修正草案」案；八、委員徐富癸等17人擬具「社會救助法第十一條\n條文修正草案」案；九、委員王鴻薇等26人擬具「社會救助法第十五條及第十五條之一條文修正\n草案」案；十、委員邱若華等20人擬具「社會救助法部分條文修正草案」案；十一、台灣民眾黨\n黨團擬具「社會救助法第十一條條文修正草案」案；十二、委員伍麗華 Saidhai Tahovecahe 等\n18人擬具「社會救助法第五條之二、第十一條及第二十一條條文修正草案」案；十三、委員楊瓊\n瓔等21人擬具「社會救助法第十一條條文修正草案」案；十四、委員萬美玲等20人擬具「社會救\n助法第四條及第十一條條文修正草案」案；十五、委員林月琴等19人擬具「社會救助法部分條文\n修正草案」案；十六、委員楊曜等24人擬具「社會救助法第十六條條文修正草案」案；十七、委\n員馬文君等20 人擬具「社會救助法第十一條條文修正草案」案；十八、委員葉元之等 21 人擬具\n「社會救助法第十一條條文修正草案」案；十九、委員羅智強等18人擬具「社會救助法第十一條\n及第十六條條文修正草案」案；二十、委員何欣純等17人擬具「社會救助法部分條文修正草案」\n案；二十一、委員劉建國等18人擬具「社會救助法部分條文修正草案」案；二十二、委員林楚茵\n等18人擬具「社會救助法第十六條條文修正草案」案；二十三、委員羅廷瑋等16人擬具「社會救\n助法部分條文修正草案」案；二十四、委員邱若華等17人擬具「社會救助法第十一條條文修正草\n案」案；二十五、委員陳亭妃等16人擬具「社會救助法第二十四條條文修正草案」案；二十六、\n委員吳沛憶等16 人擬具「社會救助法部分條文修正草案」案；二十七、委員邱鎮軍等 24 人擬具\n「社會救助法第五條之二條文修正草案」案；二十八、委員游顥等17人擬具「社會救助法第五條\n之一及第五條之二條文修正草案」案；二十九、委員翁曉玲等16人擬具「社會救助法第五條之二\n條文修正草案」案；三十、委員馬文君等16 人擬具「社會救助法第五條之二條文修正草案」案\n【僅詢答】","agenda_id":"1146604_00020"}}}