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Tahovecahe等18人擬具「社會救助法第五條之二、第十一條及第二十一條條文修正草案」案。\n十三、委員楊瓊瓔等21人擬具「社會救助法第十一條條文修正草案」案。\n十四、委員萬美玲等20人擬具「社會救助法第四條及第十一條條文修正草案」案。\n十五、委員林月琴等19人擬具「社會救助法部分條文修正草案」案。\n十六、委員楊曜等24人擬具「社會救助法第十六條條文修正草案」案。\n十七、委員馬文君等20人擬具「社會救助法第十一條條文修正草案」案。\n十八、委員葉元之等21人擬具「社會救助法第十一條條文修正草案」案。\n十九、委員羅智強等18人擬具「社會救助法第十一條及第十六條條文修正草案」案。\n二十、委員何欣純等17人擬具「社會救助法部分條文修正草案」案。\n二十一、委員劉建國等18人擬具「社會救助法部分條文修正草案」案。\n二十二、委員林楚茵等18人擬具「社會救助法第十六條條文修正草案」案。\n二十三、委員羅廷瑋等16人擬具「社會救助法部分條文修正草案」案。\n二十四、委員邱若華等17人擬具「社會救助法第十一條條文修正草案」案。\n二十五、委員陳亭妃等16人擬具「社會救助法第二十四條條文修正草案」案。\n二十六、委員吳沛憶等16人擬具「社會救助法部分條文修正草案」案。\n二十七、委員邱鎮軍等24人擬具「社會救助法第五條之二條文修正草案」案。\n二十八、委員游顥等17人擬具「社會救助法第五條之一及第五條之二條文修正草案」案。\n二十九、委員翁曉玲等16人擬具「社會救助法第五條之二條文修正草案」案。\n三十、委員馬文君等16人擬具「社會救助法第五條之二條文修正草案」案。\n【僅詢答】）","type":"Clip","date":"2025-07-07","start_time":"2025-07-07T12:18:35+08:00","end_time":"2025-07-07T12:26:59+08:00","duration":504,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第3會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第19次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":3,"sessionTimes":19,"committees":[26],"id":"委員會-11-3-26-19"},"features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"transcript":{"id":"163016","pyannote":{"name":"ronny","tool":"pyannote","data":{"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/163016","tool":"pyannote","id":"163016-pyannote"},"job_id":"tTXGVOKNwbJRYsiJ","queued_at":"2025-07-07 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503.444, \"score\": 0.9}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"盧\"}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 503.444, \"end\": 503.485, \"score\": 0.5}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 503.485, \"end\": 503.545, \"score\": 0.667}, {\"word\": \"長\"}, {\"word\": \"社\", \"start\": 503.545, \"end\": 503.565, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"長\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:04,437 --> 00:00:07,603\n主席有請部長跟園民會的副處長\n\n2\n00:00:14,735 --> 00:00:35,783\n好部長在講以前我先針對剛才主席所裁示的說加江蘭姨的資訊平台的檢討報告給林淑芬委員嘛那希望也給所有今天有質詢相關議題的委員還有我們衛福委員會的委員謝謝那是給委員會啊不是報告是他要執行的那個實際作為謝謝\n\n3\n00:00:38,024 --> 00:00:45,906\n那我在講主題之前,我先問一個問題部長,通常在颱風來的時候,誰在待命?24小時的誰在待命?我們有一個防颱中心除了防災人員,還有我們的國軍,其實最堅強的待命的單位其實就是我們的基層的醫療院所,尤其是衛生所\n\n4\n00:01:04,592 --> 00:01:19,205\n是的24小時平衡地區那昨天我們牡丹鄉一個晚上就下了海密網上就下了400將近500毫米也就是說他們道路中斷然後等於是孤立無援所以我要講的就是說\n\n5\n00:01:20,006 --> 00:01:31,912\n很多人都在跟我講我們都沒有看到衛福部的針對護理人員的一個待遇的一個時間表怎麼做調整我剛看了2014年的增衛數的薪資是37274塊總體薪資是60984塊可是我們醫療人員的一二年的尤其是護理人員如果是醫療的\n\n6\n00:01:42,378 --> 00:02:00,238\n醫療類別的護理人員是49,880塊然後做其他廠戶或者是說其他類別的護士是46,711塊所以就整體的薪資來說還是遠低於我們的平均所以我希望能夠看到衛福部對這整個薪資結構的一個改變\n\n7\n00:02:02,600 --> 00:02:19,660\n有没有个时间表或者说你内心里面有没有已经盘点好说大概是什么时候可以至少让以后要投入护理人员的这些护理系的学生或者是说已经放弃这个护理行列的这些专业的护理师回到我们的职场来\n\n8\n00:02:20,526 --> 00:02:37,717\n好謝謝盧委員的一個關心護理人力尤其在第一線的人力特別在偏鄉的護理人力怎麼樣來加強或留任這個是政府非常重要的方向當然我想委員很清楚我們也有12個措施\n\n9\n00:02:38,437 --> 00:02:53,783\n那基本上這個都希望能夠改善工作環境還有就是在他們專業還沒有非常成熟的時候有沒有可能在這一兩年這個薪資可以達到至少一個總體的薪資那個平均60984塊因為現在是49880塊大概還差了將近一萬多塊這平均來說\n\n10\n00:03:02,784 --> 00:03:29,068\n您的意思有的是這樣子有的是在醫院醫院裡面也有不同的像集中症的病房或者是門診的護理人員還有就是其實還蠻多元化的啦你要做一個整理的過程至少要拉高這個水平讓這些不想從事護理人員的這些已經離職的護理師呢可以再投入回來工作\n\n11\n00:03:29,608 --> 00:03:46,411\n這是我們非常希望的而且在經濟方面我想政府真的日日夜夜都在一直努力想要提升不只護理人員醫事人員我希望這件事情把你放在很重要的位置尤其是因為我們護理人員確實是非常的辛苦\n\n12\n00:03:47,032 --> 00:04:05,618\n早上會收到一個相驗的一個所謂被拒絕然後又要到等司法相驗的在一個議題所以在偏遠地區尤其是比較沒有就醫療缺乏的地區要等相驗的時候常常尤其是假日死亡的常常就要教授就要等待法醫的解剖或是或者是法醫的相驗所以\n\n13\n00:04:06,218 --> 00:04:29,910\n我一直覺得說這些已經退休的醫師或者是之前退休的公職醫師是不是你可以納入一個類似像香煙的一個團隊你這樣子做起事來會比較簡單因為不然家屬永遠都在等尤其是我們高評所以我想說也讓你參考這個是很好的建議因為我也當過衛生所主任香煙蠻多的如果我們沒有趕過來或者\n\n14\n00:04:30,590 --> 00:04:50,110\n晚上甚至假日都要去相驗不然的話他們後續也很難處理我想這個部分我深切的了解到這個的需要性網路更多的人力來我相信是可以減緩目前的一些尤其衛生所醫療人員的一個壓力\n\n15\n00:04:51,162 --> 00:05:13,102\n謝謝部長那進入今天的主題今天的主題本來它這個法律是原本叫做社會救濟法在1943年的時候過了這麼多年在民國69年1980年變成社會救助法現在已經45年那這已經有10年沒有修了那這個46條裡面我剛看了書面報告就是\n\n16\n00:05:13,662 --> 00:05:31,719\n這些三十案的書面報告大概列舉我看到的一些問題就是共同生活事實的一個所謂的共同生活事實清水的一個事實認定還有自數收入能不能列入第三個就是我們原住民的那個土地的問題\n\n17\n00:05:32,640 --> 00:05:58,300\n那後來因為這個問題我有在五月份的時候召集我們相關的部會來到辦公室來討論因為常常我們原住民的土地他們就說你就是沒有辦法變成中低收入戶因為你有土地然後其實這個土地就比如說本來去年以前是三萬塊的一個補償現在是六萬塊到現在大家還沒有領到然後有些領地是懸崖或什麼的其實那個根本就去\n\n18\n00:05:59,421 --> 00:06:28,401\n擔保或者是去貸款根本就不可能然後我就邀請了相關部會比如財政部金管會人民會中央銀行臺灣銀行到我辦公室來結果他們的會議結論是什麼呢他說建法補償不能當作是一個收入它不能作為一個擔保品所以又把我們所有的希望又破滅掉比如說我今天有個死角可能我可以保障說我每年可以有60萬的收入當作我的一個收入來源然後我可以去貸款結果\n\n19\n00:06:30,101 --> 00:06:45,048\n這個去問了以後他說不能因為他說因為不是不是這個林地他可能因為天災然後掉了幾分然後土石流掉了多少然後他沒有辦法百分之百確定你這每年的收入是這樣子\n\n20\n00:06:46,028 --> 00:07:01,528\n而且會因為國家的政策而改變去年是三萬塊今年是六萬塊說不定明年修法又變成多少也不知道所以它類似一個不確定性的所以當作在我們這個修法的第五條之二當作一個土地\n\n21\n00:07:03,830 --> 00:07:23,392\n就是說你身後有一個土地的時候你沒有辦法列入中低收入戶的時候這個就覺得很辛苦因為你就直接被判定是你有收入來源可是按照這些經濟部這些銀行這些看法它並不是你的收入所以這個部分在檢討的時候尤其是在修正的時候應該要把它不能列入\n\n22\n00:07:24,313 --> 00:07:50,572\n我們的所謂的你的基本的裁員因為那不確定就像剛剛我說的我們在5月28號中央單位是這樣子回覆我們的這個問題我們有注意到非常感謝那個盧委員對於這個問題的關心這個確實我們現在目前我們原住民保留地然後有這一個進法補償的部分所以委員現在最主要就是說這個能不能是列入收入還是列入動產\n\n23\n00:07:51,192 --> 00:08:19,231\n就是不能就是不能列入收入也不能列入動產當然是列入動產可是他的其實他的價值很低啦我瞭解我瞭解因為他也不能貸款然後其實那個所謂的那個不確定性很多所以你很多人是他有土地可是他要去申請周低收入戶我瞭解列入他的生活需求是完全沒有辦法包委員那這個部分是不是可以容容我們帶回去我們來研議看看能不能來這個來就不以劣跡這樣子好不好好謝謝委員那說謝謝我們就期待好謝謝\n\n24\n00:08:23,243 --> 00:08:23,565\n好謝謝盧委員謝謝部長社長\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n4437\t7603\t主席有請部長跟園民會的副處長\n14735\t35783\t好 部長在講以前我先針對剛才主席所裁示的說加江蘭姨的資訊平台的檢討報告給林淑芬委員嘛那希望也給所有今天有質詢相關議題的委員還有我們衛福委員會的委員謝謝那是給委員會啊不是報告是他要執行的那個實際作為謝謝\n38024\t45906\t那我在講主題之前,我先問一個問題部長,通常在颱風來的時候,誰在待命?24小時的誰在待命?我們有一個防颱中心除了防災人員,還有我們的國軍,其實最堅強的待命的單位其實就是我們的基層的醫療院所,尤其是衛生所\n64592\t79205\t是的24小時平衡地區那昨天我們牡丹鄉一個晚上就下了海密網上就下了400將近500毫米也就是說他們道路中斷然後等於是孤立無援所以我要講的就是說\n80006\t91912\t很多人都在跟我講我們都沒有看到衛福部的針對護理人員的一個待遇的一個時間表怎麼做調整我剛看了2014年的增衛數的薪資是37274塊總體薪資是60984塊可是我們醫療人員的一二年的尤其是護理人員如果是醫療的\n102378\t120238\t醫療類別的護理人員是49,880塊然後做其他廠戶或者是說其他類別的護士是46,711塊所以就整體的薪資來說還是遠低於我們的平均所以我希望能夠看到衛福部對這整個薪資結構的一個改變\n122600\t139660\t有没有个时间表或者说你内心里面有没有已经盘点好说大概是什么时候可以至少让以后要投入护理人员的这些护理系的学生或者是说已经放弃这个护理行列的这些专业的护理师回到我们的职场来\n140526\t157717\t好 謝謝盧委員的一個關心護理人力尤其在第一線的人力特別在偏鄉的護理人力怎麼樣來加強或留任這個是政府非常重要的方向當然我想委員很清楚我們也有12個措施\n158437\t173783\t那基本上這個都希望能夠改善工作環境還有就是在他們專業還沒有非常成熟的時候有沒有可能在這一兩年這個薪資可以達到至少一個總體的薪資那個平均60984塊因為現在是49880塊大概還差了將近一萬多塊這平均來說\n182784\t209068\t您的意思有的是這樣子有的是在醫院醫院裡面也有不同的像集中症的病房或者是門診的護理人員還有就是其實還蠻多元化的啦你要做一個整理的過程至少要拉高這個水平讓這些不想從事護理人員的這些已經離職的護理師呢可以再投入回來工作\n209608\t226411\t這是我們非常希望的而且在經濟方面我想政府真的日日夜夜都在一直努力想要提升不只護理人員醫事人員我希望這件事情把你放在很重要的位置尤其是因為我們護理人員確實是非常的辛苦\n227032\t245618\t早上會收到一個相驗的一個所謂被拒絕然後又要到等司法相驗的在一個議題所以在偏遠地區尤其是比較沒有就醫療缺乏的地區要等相驗的時候常常尤其是假日死亡的常常就要教授就要等待法醫的解剖或是或者是法醫的相驗所以\n246218\t269910\t我一直覺得說這些已經退休的醫師或者是之前退休的公職醫師是不是你可以納入一個類似像香煙的一個團隊你這樣子做起事來會比較簡單因為不然家屬永遠都在等尤其是我們高評所以我想說也讓你參考這個是很好的建議因為我也當過衛生所主任香煙蠻多的如果我們沒有趕過來或者\n270590\t290110\t晚上甚至假日都要去相驗不然的話他們後續也很難處理我想這個部分我深切的了解到這個的需要性網路更多的人力來我相信是可以減緩目前的一些尤其衛生所醫療人員的一個壓力\n291162\t313102\t謝謝部長那進入今天的主題今天的主題本來它這個法律是原本叫做社會救濟法在1943年的時候過了這麼多年在民國69年1980年變成社會救助法現在已經45年那這已經有10年沒有修了那這個46條裡面我剛看了書面報告就是\n313662\t331719\t這些三十案的書面報告大概列舉我看到的一些問題就是共同生活事實的一個所謂的共同生活事實清水的一個事實認定還有自數收入能不能列入第三個就是我們原住民的那個土地的問題\n332640\t358300\t那後來因為這個問題我有在五月份的時候召集我們相關的部會來到辦公室來討論因為常常我們原住民的土地他們就說你就是沒有辦法變成中低收入戶因為你有土地然後其實這個土地就比如說本來去年以前是三萬塊的一個補償現在是六萬塊到現在大家還沒有領到然後有些領地是懸崖或什麼的其實那個根本就去\n359421\t388401\t擔保 或者是去貸款根本就不可能然後我就邀請了相關部會 比如財政部 金管會 人民會中央銀行 臺灣銀行到我辦公室來結果他們的會議結論是什麼呢他說建法補償不能當作是一個收入它不能作為一個擔保品所以又把我們所有的希望又破滅掉比如說我今天有個死角 可能我可以保障說我每年可以有60萬的收入 當作我的一個收入來源然後我可以去貸款 結果\n390101\t405048\t這個去問了以後他說不能因為他說因為不是不是這個林地他可能因為天災然後掉了幾分然後土石流掉了多少然後他沒有辦法百分之百確定你這每年的收入是這樣子\n406028\t421528\t而且會因為國家的政策而改變去年是三萬塊 今年是六萬塊說不定明年修法又變成多少也不知道所以它類似一個不確定性的所以當作在我們這個修法的第五條之二當作一個土地\n423830\t443392\t就是說你身後有一個土地的時候你沒有辦法列入中低收入戶的時候這個就覺得很辛苦因為你就直接被判定是你有收入來源可是按照這些經濟部這些銀行這些看法它並不是你的收入所以這個部分在檢討的時候尤其是在修正的時候應該要把它不能列入\n444313\t470572\t我們的所謂的你的基本的裁員因為那不確定就像剛剛我說的我們在5月28號中央單位是這樣子回覆我們的這個問題我們有注意到非常感謝那個盧委員對於這個問題的關心這個確實我們現在目前我們原住民保留地然後有這一個進法補償的部分所以委員現在最主要就是說這個能不能是列入收入還是列入動產\n471192\t499231\t就是不能就是不能列入收入也不能列入動產當然是列入動產可是他的其實他的價值很低啦我瞭解我瞭解因為他也不能貸款然後其實那個所謂的那個不確定性很多所以你很多人是他有土地可是他要去申請周低收入戶我瞭解列入他的生活需求是完全沒有辦法包委員那這個部分是不是可以容容我們帶回去我們來研議看看能不能來這個來就不以劣跡這樣子好不好好謝謝委員那說謝謝我們就期待好謝謝\n503243\t503565\t好 謝謝盧委員 謝謝部長 社長\n","txt":"主席有請部長跟園民會的副處長\n好 部長在講以前我先針對剛才主席所裁示的說加江蘭姨的資訊平台的檢討報告給林淑芬委員嘛那希望也給所有今天有質詢相關議題的委員還有我們衛福委員會的委員謝謝那是給委員會啊不是報告是他要執行的那個實際作為謝謝\n那我在講主題之前,我先問一個問題部長,通常在颱風來的時候,誰在待命?24小時的誰在待命?我們有一個防颱中心除了防災人員,還有我們的國軍,其實最堅強的待命的單位其實就是我們的基層的醫療院所,尤其是衛生所\n是的24小時平衡地區那昨天我們牡丹鄉一個晚上就下了海密網上就下了400將近500毫米也就是說他們道路中斷然後等於是孤立無援所以我要講的就是說\n很多人都在跟我講我們都沒有看到衛福部的針對護理人員的一個待遇的一個時間表怎麼做調整我剛看了2014年的增衛數的薪資是37274塊總體薪資是60984塊可是我們醫療人員的一二年的尤其是護理人員如果是醫療的\n醫療類別的護理人員是49,880塊然後做其他廠戶或者是說其他類別的護士是46,711塊所以就整體的薪資來說還是遠低於我們的平均所以我希望能夠看到衛福部對這整個薪資結構的一個改變\n有没有个时间表或者说你内心里面有没有已经盘点好说大概是什么时候可以至少让以后要投入护理人员的这些护理系的学生或者是说已经放弃这个护理行列的这些专业的护理师回到我们的职场来\n好 謝謝盧委員的一個關心護理人力尤其在第一線的人力特別在偏鄉的護理人力怎麼樣來加強或留任這個是政府非常重要的方向當然我想委員很清楚我們也有12個措施\n那基本上這個都希望能夠改善工作環境還有就是在他們專業還沒有非常成熟的時候有沒有可能在這一兩年這個薪資可以達到至少一個總體的薪資那個平均60984塊因為現在是49880塊大概還差了將近一萬多塊這平均來說\n您的意思有的是這樣子有的是在醫院醫院裡面也有不同的像集中症的病房或者是門診的護理人員還有就是其實還蠻多元化的啦你要做一個整理的過程至少要拉高這個水平讓這些不想從事護理人員的這些已經離職的護理師呢可以再投入回來工作\n這是我們非常希望的而且在經濟方面我想政府真的日日夜夜都在一直努力想要提升不只護理人員醫事人員我希望這件事情把你放在很重要的位置尤其是因為我們護理人員確實是非常的辛苦\n早上會收到一個相驗的一個所謂被拒絕然後又要到等司法相驗的在一個議題所以在偏遠地區尤其是比較沒有就醫療缺乏的地區要等相驗的時候常常尤其是假日死亡的常常就要教授就要等待法醫的解剖或是或者是法醫的相驗所以\n我一直覺得說這些已經退休的醫師或者是之前退休的公職醫師是不是你可以納入一個類似像香煙的一個團隊你這樣子做起事來會比較簡單因為不然家屬永遠都在等尤其是我們高評所以我想說也讓你參考這個是很好的建議因為我也當過衛生所主任香煙蠻多的如果我們沒有趕過來或者\n晚上甚至假日都要去相驗不然的話他們後續也很難處理我想這個部分我深切的了解到這個的需要性網路更多的人力來我相信是可以減緩目前的一些尤其衛生所醫療人員的一個壓力\n謝謝部長那進入今天的主題今天的主題本來它這個法律是原本叫做社會救濟法在1943年的時候過了這麼多年在民國69年1980年變成社會救助法現在已經45年那這已經有10年沒有修了那這個46條裡面我剛看了書面報告就是\n這些三十案的書面報告大概列舉我看到的一些問題就是共同生活事實的一個所謂的共同生活事實清水的一個事實認定還有自數收入能不能列入第三個就是我們原住民的那個土地的問題\n那後來因為這個問題我有在五月份的時候召集我們相關的部會來到辦公室來討論因為常常我們原住民的土地他們就說你就是沒有辦法變成中低收入戶因為你有土地然後其實這個土地就比如說本來去年以前是三萬塊的一個補償現在是六萬塊到現在大家還沒有領到然後有些領地是懸崖或什麼的其實那個根本就去\n擔保 或者是去貸款根本就不可能然後我就邀請了相關部會 比如財政部 金管會 人民會中央銀行 臺灣銀行到我辦公室來結果他們的會議結論是什麼呢他說建法補償不能當作是一個收入它不能作為一個擔保品所以又把我們所有的希望又破滅掉比如說我今天有個死角 可能我可以保障說我每年可以有60萬的收入 當作我的一個收入來源然後我可以去貸款 結果\n這個去問了以後他說不能因為他說因為不是不是這個林地他可能因為天災然後掉了幾分然後土石流掉了多少然後他沒有辦法百分之百確定你這每年的收入是這樣子\n而且會因為國家的政策而改變去年是三萬塊 今年是六萬塊說不定明年修法又變成多少也不知道所以它類似一個不確定性的所以當作在我們這個修法的第五條之二當作一個土地\n就是說你身後有一個土地的時候你沒有辦法列入中低收入戶的時候這個就覺得很辛苦因為你就直接被判定是你有收入來源可是按照這些經濟部這些銀行這些看法它並不是你的收入所以這個部分在檢討的時候尤其是在修正的時候應該要把它不能列入\n我們的所謂的你的基本的裁員因為那不確定就像剛剛我說的我們在5月28號中央單位是這樣子回覆我們的這個問題我們有注意到非常感謝那個盧委員對於這個問題的關心這個確實我們現在目前我們原住民保留地然後有這一個進法補償的部分所以委員現在最主要就是說這個能不能是列入收入還是列入動產\n就是不能就是不能列入收入也不能列入動產當然是列入動產可是他的其實他的價值很低啦我瞭解我瞭解因為他也不能貸款然後其實那個所謂的那個不確定性很多所以你很多人是他有土地可是他要去申請周低收入戶我瞭解列入他的生活需求是完全沒有辦法包委員那這個部分是不是可以容容我們帶回去我們來研議看看能不能來這個來就不以劣跡這樣子好不好好謝謝委員那說謝謝我們就期待好謝謝\n好 謝謝盧委員 謝謝部長 社長\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:04.437 --> 00:07.603\n主席有請部長跟園民會的副處長\n\n00:14.735 --> 00:35.783\n好部長在講以前我先針對剛才主席所裁示的說加江蘭姨的資訊平台的檢討報告給林淑芬委員嘛那希望也給所有今天有質詢相關議題的委員還有我們衛福委員會的委員謝謝那是給委員會啊不是報告是他要執行的那個實際作為謝謝\n\n00:38.024 --> 00:45.906\n那我在講主題之前,我先問一個問題部長,通常在颱風來的時候,誰在待命?24小時的誰在待命?我們有一個防颱中心除了防災人員,還有我們的國軍,其實最堅強的待命的單位其實就是我們的基層的醫療院所,尤其是衛生所\n\n01:04.592 --> 01:19.205\n是的24小時平衡地區那昨天我們牡丹鄉一個晚上就下了海密網上就下了400將近500毫米也就是說他們道路中斷然後等於是孤立無援所以我要講的就是說\n\n01:20.006 --> 01:31.912\n很多人都在跟我講我們都沒有看到衛福部的針對護理人員的一個待遇的一個時間表怎麼做調整我剛看了2014年的增衛數的薪資是37274塊總體薪資是60984塊可是我們醫療人員的一二年的尤其是護理人員如果是醫療的\n\n01:42.378 --> 02:00.238\n醫療類別的護理人員是49,880塊然後做其他廠戶或者是說其他類別的護士是46,711塊所以就整體的薪資來說還是遠低於我們的平均所以我希望能夠看到衛福部對這整個薪資結構的一個改變\n\n02:02.600 --> 02:19.660\n有没有个时间表或者说你内心里面有没有已经盘点好说大概是什么时候可以至少让以后要投入护理人员的这些护理系的学生或者是说已经放弃这个护理行列的这些专业的护理师回到我们的职场来\n\n02:20.526 --> 02:37.717\n好謝謝盧委員的一個關心護理人力尤其在第一線的人力特別在偏鄉的護理人力怎麼樣來加強或留任這個是政府非常重要的方向當然我想委員很清楚我們也有12個措施\n\n02:38.437 --> 02:53.783\n那基本上這個都希望能夠改善工作環境還有就是在他們專業還沒有非常成熟的時候有沒有可能在這一兩年這個薪資可以達到至少一個總體的薪資那個平均60984塊因為現在是49880塊大概還差了將近一萬多塊這平均來說\n\n03:02.784 --> 03:29.068\n您的意思有的是這樣子有的是在醫院醫院裡面也有不同的像集中症的病房或者是門診的護理人員還有就是其實還蠻多元化的啦你要做一個整理的過程至少要拉高這個水平讓這些不想從事護理人員的這些已經離職的護理師呢可以再投入回來工作\n\n03:29.608 --> 03:46.411\n這是我們非常希望的而且在經濟方面我想政府真的日日夜夜都在一直努力想要提升不只護理人員醫事人員我希望這件事情把你放在很重要的位置尤其是因為我們護理人員確實是非常的辛苦\n\n03:47.032 --> 04:05.618\n早上會收到一個相驗的一個所謂被拒絕然後又要到等司法相驗的在一個議題所以在偏遠地區尤其是比較沒有就醫療缺乏的地區要等相驗的時候常常尤其是假日死亡的常常就要教授就要等待法醫的解剖或是或者是法醫的相驗所以\n\n04:06.218 --> 04:29.910\n我一直覺得說這些已經退休的醫師或者是之前退休的公職醫師是不是你可以納入一個類似像香煙的一個團隊你這樣子做起事來會比較簡單因為不然家屬永遠都在等尤其是我們高評所以我想說也讓你參考這個是很好的建議因為我也當過衛生所主任香煙蠻多的如果我們沒有趕過來或者\n\n04:30.590 --> 04:50.110\n晚上甚至假日都要去相驗不然的話他們後續也很難處理我想這個部分我深切的了解到這個的需要性網路更多的人力來我相信是可以減緩目前的一些尤其衛生所醫療人員的一個壓力\n\n04:51.162 --> 05:13.102\n謝謝部長那進入今天的主題今天的主題本來它這個法律是原本叫做社會救濟法在1943年的時候過了這麼多年在民國69年1980年變成社會救助法現在已經45年那這已經有10年沒有修了那這個46條裡面我剛看了書面報告就是\n\n05:13.662 --> 05:31.719\n這些三十案的書面報告大概列舉我看到的一些問題就是共同生活事實的一個所謂的共同生活事實清水的一個事實認定還有自數收入能不能列入第三個就是我們原住民的那個土地的問題\n\n05:32.640 --> 05:58.300\n那後來因為這個問題我有在五月份的時候召集我們相關的部會來到辦公室來討論因為常常我們原住民的土地他們就說你就是沒有辦法變成中低收入戶因為你有土地然後其實這個土地就比如說本來去年以前是三萬塊的一個補償現在是六萬塊到現在大家還沒有領到然後有些領地是懸崖或什麼的其實那個根本就去\n\n05:59.421 --> 06:28.401\n擔保或者是去貸款根本就不可能然後我就邀請了相關部會比如財政部金管會人民會中央銀行臺灣銀行到我辦公室來結果他們的會議結論是什麼呢他說建法補償不能當作是一個收入它不能作為一個擔保品所以又把我們所有的希望又破滅掉比如說我今天有個死角可能我可以保障說我每年可以有60萬的收入當作我的一個收入來源然後我可以去貸款結果\n\n06:30.101 --> 06:45.048\n這個去問了以後他說不能因為他說因為不是不是這個林地他可能因為天災然後掉了幾分然後土石流掉了多少然後他沒有辦法百分之百確定你這每年的收入是這樣子\n\n06:46.028 --> 07:01.528\n而且會因為國家的政策而改變去年是三萬塊今年是六萬塊說不定明年修法又變成多少也不知道所以它類似一個不確定性的所以當作在我們這個修法的第五條之二當作一個土地\n\n07:03.830 --> 07:23.392\n就是說你身後有一個土地的時候你沒有辦法列入中低收入戶的時候這個就覺得很辛苦因為你就直接被判定是你有收入來源可是按照這些經濟部這些銀行這些看法它並不是你的收入所以這個部分在檢討的時候尤其是在修正的時候應該要把它不能列入\n\n07:24.313 --> 07:50.572\n我們的所謂的你的基本的裁員因為那不確定就像剛剛我說的我們在5月28號中央單位是這樣子回覆我們的這個問題我們有注意到非常感謝那個盧委員對於這個問題的關心這個確實我們現在目前我們原住民保留地然後有這一個進法補償的部分所以委員現在最主要就是說這個能不能是列入收入還是列入動產\n\n07:51.192 --> 08:19.231\n就是不能就是不能列入收入也不能列入動產當然是列入動產可是他的其實他的價值很低啦我瞭解我瞭解因為他也不能貸款然後其實那個所謂的那個不確定性很多所以你很多人是他有土地可是他要去申請周低收入戶我瞭解列入他的生活需求是完全沒有辦法包委員那這個部分是不是可以容容我們帶回去我們來研議看看能不能來這個來就不以劣跡這樣子好不好好謝謝委員那說謝謝我們就期待好謝謝\n\n08:23.243 --> 08:23.565\n好謝謝盧委員謝謝部長社長\n\n","segments":[{"start":4.437,"end":7.603,"text":"主席有請部長跟園民會的副處長"},{"start":14.735,"end":35.783,"text":"好 部長在講以前我先針對剛才主席所裁示的說加江蘭姨的資訊平台的檢討報告給林淑芬委員嘛那希望也給所有今天有質詢相關議題的委員還有我們衛福委員會的委員謝謝那是給委員會啊不是報告是他要執行的那個實際作為謝謝"},{"start":38.024,"end":45.906,"text":"那我在講主題之前,我先問一個問題部長,通常在颱風來的時候,誰在待命?24小時的誰在待命?我們有一個防颱中心除了防災人員,還有我們的國軍,其實最堅強的待命的單位其實就是我們的基層的醫療院所,尤其是衛生所"},{"start":64.592,"end":79.205,"text":"是的24小時平衡地區那昨天我們牡丹鄉一個晚上就下了海密網上就下了400將近500毫米也就是說他們道路中斷然後等於是孤立無援所以我要講的就是說"},{"start":80.006,"end":91.912,"text":"很多人都在跟我講我們都沒有看到衛福部的針對護理人員的一個待遇的一個時間表怎麼做調整我剛看了2014年的增衛數的薪資是37274塊總體薪資是60984塊可是我們醫療人員的一二年的尤其是護理人員如果是醫療的"},{"start":102.378,"end":120.238,"text":"醫療類別的護理人員是49,880塊然後做其他廠戶或者是說其他類別的護士是46,711塊所以就整體的薪資來說還是遠低於我們的平均所以我希望能夠看到衛福部對這整個薪資結構的一個改變"},{"start":122.6,"end":139.66,"text":"有没有个时间表或者说你内心里面有没有已经盘点好说大概是什么时候可以至少让以后要投入护理人员的这些护理系的学生或者是说已经放弃这个护理行列的这些专业的护理师回到我们的职场来"},{"start":140.526,"end":157.717,"text":"好 謝謝盧委員的一個關心護理人力尤其在第一線的人力特別在偏鄉的護理人力怎麼樣來加強或留任這個是政府非常重要的方向當然我想委員很清楚我們也有12個措施"},{"start":158.437,"end":173.783,"text":"那基本上這個都希望能夠改善工作環境還有就是在他們專業還沒有非常成熟的時候有沒有可能在這一兩年這個薪資可以達到至少一個總體的薪資那個平均60984塊因為現在是49880塊大概還差了將近一萬多塊這平均來說"},{"start":182.784,"end":209.068,"text":"您的意思有的是這樣子有的是在醫院醫院裡面也有不同的像集中症的病房或者是門診的護理人員還有就是其實還蠻多元化的啦你要做一個整理的過程至少要拉高這個水平讓這些不想從事護理人員的這些已經離職的護理師呢可以再投入回來工作"},{"start":209.608,"end":226.411,"text":"這是我們非常希望的而且在經濟方面我想政府真的日日夜夜都在一直努力想要提升不只護理人員醫事人員我希望這件事情把你放在很重要的位置尤其是因為我們護理人員確實是非常的辛苦"},{"start":227.032,"end":245.618,"text":"早上會收到一個相驗的一個所謂被拒絕然後又要到等司法相驗的在一個議題所以在偏遠地區尤其是比較沒有就醫療缺乏的地區要等相驗的時候常常尤其是假日死亡的常常就要教授就要等待法醫的解剖或是或者是法醫的相驗所以"},{"start":246.218,"end":269.91,"text":"我一直覺得說這些已經退休的醫師或者是之前退休的公職醫師是不是你可以納入一個類似像香煙的一個團隊你這樣子做起事來會比較簡單因為不然家屬永遠都在等尤其是我們高評所以我想說也讓你參考這個是很好的建議因為我也當過衛生所主任香煙蠻多的如果我們沒有趕過來或者"},{"start":270.59,"end":290.11,"text":"晚上甚至假日都要去相驗不然的話他們後續也很難處理我想這個部分我深切的了解到這個的需要性網路更多的人力來我相信是可以減緩目前的一些尤其衛生所醫療人員的一個壓力"},{"start":291.162,"end":313.102,"text":"謝謝部長那進入今天的主題今天的主題本來它這個法律是原本叫做社會救濟法在1943年的時候過了這麼多年在民國69年1980年變成社會救助法現在已經45年那這已經有10年沒有修了那這個46條裡面我剛看了書面報告就是"},{"start":313.662,"end":331.719,"text":"這些三十案的書面報告大概列舉我看到的一些問題就是共同生活事實的一個所謂的共同生活事實清水的一個事實認定還有自數收入能不能列入第三個就是我們原住民的那個土地的問題"},{"start":332.64,"end":358.3,"text":"那後來因為這個問題我有在五月份的時候召集我們相關的部會來到辦公室來討論因為常常我們原住民的土地他們就說你就是沒有辦法變成中低收入戶因為你有土地然後其實這個土地就比如說本來去年以前是三萬塊的一個補償現在是六萬塊到現在大家還沒有領到然後有些領地是懸崖或什麼的其實那個根本就去"},{"start":359.421,"end":388.401,"text":"擔保 或者是去貸款根本就不可能然後我就邀請了相關部會 比如財政部 金管會 人民會中央銀行 臺灣銀行到我辦公室來結果他們的會議結論是什麼呢他說建法補償不能當作是一個收入它不能作為一個擔保品所以又把我們所有的希望又破滅掉比如說我今天有個死角 可能我可以保障說我每年可以有60萬的收入 當作我的一個收入來源然後我可以去貸款 結果"},{"start":390.101,"end":405.048,"text":"這個去問了以後他說不能因為他說因為不是不是這個林地他可能因為天災然後掉了幾分然後土石流掉了多少然後他沒有辦法百分之百確定你這每年的收入是這樣子"},{"start":406.028,"end":421.528,"text":"而且會因為國家的政策而改變去年是三萬塊 今年是六萬塊說不定明年修法又變成多少也不知道所以它類似一個不確定性的所以當作在我們這個修法的第五條之二當作一個土地"},{"start":423.83,"end":443.392,"text":"就是說你身後有一個土地的時候你沒有辦法列入中低收入戶的時候這個就覺得很辛苦因為你就直接被判定是你有收入來源可是按照這些經濟部這些銀行這些看法它並不是你的收入所以這個部分在檢討的時候尤其是在修正的時候應該要把它不能列入"},{"start":444.313,"end":470.572,"text":"我們的所謂的你的基本的裁員因為那不確定就像剛剛我說的我們在5月28號中央單位是這樣子回覆我們的這個問題我們有注意到非常感謝那個盧委員對於這個問題的關心這個確實我們現在目前我們原住民保留地然後有這一個進法補償的部分所以委員現在最主要就是說這個能不能是列入收入還是列入動產"},{"start":471.192,"end":499.231,"text":"就是不能就是不能列入收入也不能列入動產當然是列入動產可是他的其實他的價值很低啦我瞭解我瞭解因為他也不能貸款然後其實那個所謂的那個不確定性很多所以你很多人是他有土地可是他要去申請周低收入戶我瞭解列入他的生活需求是完全沒有辦法包委員那這個部分是不是可以容容我們帶回去我們來研議看看能不能來這個來就不以劣跡這樣子好不好好謝謝委員那說謝謝我們就期待好謝謝"},{"start":503.243,"end":503.565,"text":"好 謝謝盧委員 謝謝部長 社長"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":1283,"blocks":[["盧委員縣一：（12時18分）謝謝，有請部長跟原民會的副處長。"],["主席：部長跟原民會。"],["邱部長泰源：委員好。"],["盧委員縣一：部長，我先針對剛才主席所裁示的，將狼醫資訊平台的檢討報告給林淑芬委員，希望也給所有今天有質詢相關議題的委員，我們衛環委員會的委員，謝謝。"],["邱部長泰源：當然可以。"],["主席：那是給委員會，不是報告，是他要執行的實際作為，謝謝。"],["盧委員縣一：好，謝謝。","在進行主題之前，我先問一個問題，部長，通常在颱風來的時候，比如丹娜絲颱風來的時候，誰在待命？24小時的誰在待命？"],["邱部長泰源：我們有一個防颱中心。"],["盧委員縣一：我的意思是除了防災人員還有我們的國軍，其實最堅強的待命單位就是我們的基層醫療院所，尤其是衛生所。"],["邱部長泰源：是的。"],["盧委員縣一：24小時偏遠地區喔。"],["邱部長泰源：偏遠地區付出更……"],["盧委員縣一：昨天我們牡丹鄉還不到晚上就下了將近500毫米，他們道路中斷，等於是孤立無援。我要講的就是，很多人都在跟我講，我們都沒有看到衛福部調整護理人員待遇的時間表。我剛剛看到2024年的薪資中位數是3萬7,274元，總薪資平均數是6萬984元，可是醫療類別的護理人員是4萬9,880元，其他類別的護理人員（譬如廠護）是4萬6,711元，就整體薪資來說還是遠低於平均，所以我希望能夠看到衛福部對整個薪資結構的改變。請問這方面有沒有一個時間表，或是在你心裡面是不是已經盤點好大概什麼時候可以調整？這樣至少可以讓以後要投入護理工作的護理系學生安心，或者是讓已經放棄護理行列的專業護理師回到職場來。"],["邱部長泰源：謝謝盧委員關心護理人力，尤其在第一線的人力，特別是在偏鄉的護理人力怎麼樣加強或留任，這是政府非常重要的方向。我想委員也清楚我們有12項措施，基本上都是希望能改善工作環境，還有就是在他們專業……"],["盧委員縣一：有沒有可能在一、兩年內達到總薪資平均數的6萬984元？因為現在是4萬9,880元，差了一萬多元，這是就平均來說。"],["邱部長泰源：這是這樣的，有的是在醫院，醫院裡面也有不同，像急重症病房或者是門診的護理人員，還有就是……其實還滿多元化的。"],["盧委員縣一：我的意思是說你要做一個整體的規劃，至少要拉高水平，讓這些不想繼續從事護理工作、已經離職的護理師可以重新投入、再回來工作。"],["邱部長泰源：這是我們非常期望的，這方面政府真的日日夜夜都一直在努力想要提升……"],["盧委員縣一：保障……"],["邱部長泰源：其實不只護理人員，醫事人員……"],["盧委員縣一：我希望你把這些事情放在很重要的位置，尤其是醫事人員、護理人員確實非常辛苦。","本席早上又收到一個相驗被拒，必須等待司法相驗的議題。在偏遠地區，尤其是醫療資源比較缺乏的地區，假日有人死亡時，家屬常常需要等待法醫解剖或者是法醫相驗，所以我一直覺得，是不是可以把已經退休的醫師或者是之前退休的公職醫師納入一個類似相驗的團隊？這樣做起事情來會比較簡單，不然家屬永遠都在等，尤其是我們高屏地區。這個建議提供給你參考。"],["邱部長泰源：這是很好的建議，我也當過衛生所主任，有滿多相驗的經驗，晚上甚至假日都要去相驗，不然他們後續很難處理，這個部分我有深切瞭解它的需要性。如果能網羅更多的人力，相信可以減緩目前尤其是衛生所醫療人員的壓力。"],["盧委員縣一：謝謝部長。接下來本席要進入今天的主題，今天討論的社會救助法在1943年的時候原本叫做社會救濟法，民國69年（1980年）才改為社會救助法。本法45年來雖經多次修正，但迄今已經10年沒有修了。衛福部今天針對委員所提的30個提案提出一份書面報告，我在這裡面看到一些問題：第一是共同生活事實之親屬的認定，第二是自述收入能不能列入，第三是原住民土地的問題。","針對原住民土地的問題，我有在5月份邀集相關部會來辦公室討論，原住民常常因為擁有土地而無法被認定為中低收入戶，其實這個土地以前有3萬元的禁伐補償，現在是6萬元，不過到現在大家都還沒有領到，而且有些林地是懸崖或什麼的，根本不可能貸款或擔保，所以我就邀集相關部會，包括財政部、金管會、原民會、中央銀行、臺灣銀行的人員到我辦公室來，結果會議結論是什麼呢？他們說禁伐補償不能視為收入，不能做為擔保品，所以我們所有的希望又破滅了。","比如說我今年有10甲地，可能可以保障自己每年有60萬元的禁伐補償做為收入來源，據以申請貸款，結果去問了以後說不能。因為土地面積可能會在天災之後掉了幾分，然後又因為土石流掉了多少，他沒有辦法百分之百確定每年的收入是這樣子，而且禁伐補償的數額會因國家政策而改變，去年是3萬元，今年是6萬元，說不定明年修法又變成多少也不知道，所以是有不確定性的。","根據本法第五條之二，因為名下擁有土地而沒有辦法被列為中低收入戶的時候，當事人就會很辛苦，因為你就直接被判定有收入來源，可是按照財政部和銀行的看法，它並不是你的收入。所以這個部分在檢討的時候，尤其是在修正的時候，一定不能把它列入基本的財源，因為它不確定，就像我剛剛說的，我們在5月28日開會的時候，各部會是這樣回復的。"],["邱部長泰源：這個問題我們有注意到。請呂次長來說明。"],["呂次長建德：非常感謝盧委員對這個問題的關心，就是有關原住民保留地禁伐補償的部分，委員現在最主要是說這能不能列入收入，最後還是列入動產……"],["盧委員縣一：就是不能列入收入。當然是列入動產，可是它的價值其實很低……"],["呂次長建德：我瞭解、我瞭解。"],["盧委員縣一：因為它也不能貸款，而且它的不確定性很高，可是很多人就因此而完全沒有辦法申請成為中低收入戶。"],["呂次長建德：我瞭解，這個部分是不是容我們帶回去研議，看看能不能不予列計？謝謝委員。"],["盧委員縣一：謝謝，我們就期待。"],["邱部長泰源：謝謝委員。"],["主席：謝謝盧委員，謝謝部長、次長。","接下來請黃秀芳委員來做詢答。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":262,"meet_id":"委員會-11-3-26-19","speakers":["劉建國","范雲","林月琴","楊瓊瓔","陳昭姿","王育敏","陳菁徽","林淑芬","涂權吉","王正旭","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","黃國昌","張雅琳","盧縣一","黃秀芳","楊曜","林楚茵","廖偉翔","蘇清泉","陳瑩"],"page_start":171,"meetingDate":["2025-07-07"],"gazette_id":"1146604","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1146604_00007"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第19次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"審查一、委員楊曜等17人擬具「社會救助法第十六條條文修正草案」案；二、委員范雲等17人擬\n具「社會救助法部分條文修正草案」案；三、委員謝衣鳯等16人擬具「社會救助法部分條文修正\n草案」案；四、委員黃秀芳等20人擬具「社會救助法第二條、第四條及第十四條條文修正草案」\n案；五、委員翁曉玲等18人擬具「社會救助法第十一條條文修正草案」案；六、委員黃捷等16人\n擬具「社會救助法第十六條條文修正草案」案；七、委員蔡其昌等 17 人擬具「社會救助法第四\n條、第四條之一及第五條條文修正草案」案；八、委員徐富癸等17人擬具「社會救助法第十一條\n條文修正草案」案；九、委員王鴻薇等26人擬具「社會救助法第十五條及第十五條之一條文修正\n草案」案；十、委員邱若華等20人擬具「社會救助法部分條文修正草案」案；十一、台灣民眾黨\n黨團擬具「社會救助法第十一條條文修正草案」案；十二、委員伍麗華 Saidhai Tahovecahe 等\n18人擬具「社會救助法第五條之二、第十一條及第二十一條條文修正草案」案；十三、委員楊瓊\n瓔等21人擬具「社會救助法第十一條條文修正草案」案；十四、委員萬美玲等20人擬具「社會救\n助法第四條及第十一條條文修正草案」案；十五、委員林月琴等19人擬具「社會救助法部分條文\n修正草案」案；十六、委員楊曜等24人擬具「社會救助法第十六條條文修正草案」案；十七、委\n員馬文君等20 人擬具「社會救助法第十一條條文修正草案」案；十八、委員葉元之等 21 人擬具\n「社會救助法第十一條條文修正草案」案；十九、委員羅智強等18人擬具「社會救助法第十一條\n及第十六條條文修正草案」案；二十、委員何欣純等17人擬具「社會救助法部分條文修正草案」\n案；二十一、委員劉建國等18人擬具「社會救助法部分條文修正草案」案；二十二、委員林楚茵\n等18人擬具「社會救助法第十六條條文修正草案」案；二十三、委員羅廷瑋等16人擬具「社會救\n助法部分條文修正草案」案；二十四、委員邱若華等17人擬具「社會救助法第十一條條文修正草\n案」案；二十五、委員陳亭妃等16人擬具「社會救助法第二十四條條文修正草案」案；二十六、\n委員吳沛憶等16 人擬具「社會救助法部分條文修正草案」案；二十七、委員邱鎮軍等 24 人擬具\n「社會救助法第五條之二條文修正草案」案；二十八、委員游顥等17人擬具「社會救助法第五條\n之一及第五條之二條文修正草案」案；二十九、委員翁曉玲等16人擬具「社會救助法第五條之二\n條文修正草案」案；三十、委員馬文君等16 人擬具「社會救助法第五條之二條文修正草案」案\n【僅詢答】","agenda_id":"1146604_00020"}}}