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Tahovecahe等18人擬具「社會救助法第五條之二、第十一條及第二十一條條文修正草案」案。\n十三、委員楊瓊瓔等21人擬具「社會救助法第十一條條文修正草案」案。\n十四、委員萬美玲等20人擬具「社會救助法第四條及第十一條條文修正草案」案。\n十五、委員林月琴等19人擬具「社會救助法部分條文修正草案」案。\n十六、委員楊曜等24人擬具「社會救助法第十六條條文修正草案」案。\n十七、委員馬文君等20人擬具「社會救助法第十一條條文修正草案」案。\n十八、委員葉元之等21人擬具「社會救助法第十一條條文修正草案」案。\n十九、委員羅智強等18人擬具「社會救助法第十一條及第十六條條文修正草案」案。\n二十、委員何欣純等17人擬具「社會救助法部分條文修正草案」案。\n二十一、委員劉建國等18人擬具「社會救助法部分條文修正草案」案。\n二十二、委員林楚茵等18人擬具「社會救助法第十六條條文修正草案」案。\n二十三、委員羅廷瑋等16人擬具「社會救助法部分條文修正草案」案。\n二十四、委員邱若華等17人擬具「社會救助法第十一條條文修正草案」案。\n二十五、委員陳亭妃等16人擬具「社會救助法第二十四條條文修正草案」案。\n二十六、委員吳沛憶等16人擬具「社會救助法部分條文修正草案」案。\n二十七、委員邱鎮軍等24人擬具「社會救助法第五條之二條文修正草案」案。\n二十八、委員游顥等17人擬具「社會救助法第五條之一及第五條之二條文修正草案」案。\n二十九、委員翁曉玲等16人擬具「社會救助法第五條之二條文修正草案」案。\n三十、委員馬文君等16人擬具「社會救助法第五條之二條文修正草案」案。\n【僅詢答】）","type":"Clip","date":"2025-07-07","start_time":"2025-07-07T12:27:05+08:00","end_time":"2025-07-07T12:37:34+08:00","duration":629,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第3會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第19次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":3,"sessionTimes":19,"committees":[26],"id":"委員會-11-3-26-19"},"features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"transcript":{"id":"163017","pyannote":{"name":"ronny","tool":"pyannote","data":{"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/163017","tool":"pyannote","id":"163017-pyannote"},"job_id":"OwLyNBfMZDbJxlBc","queued_at":"2025-07-07 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\"end\": 619.767, \"score\": 0.828}, {\"word\": \"做\", \"start\": 619.767, \"end\": 619.968, \"score\": 0.908}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 619.968, \"end\": 619.988, \"score\": 0.04}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 620.928, \"end\": 621.069, \"score\": 0.862}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 621.069, \"end\": 621.089, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"員\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:04,152 --> 00:00:04,514\n謝謝主席,我們請部長\n\n2\n00:00:11,354 --> 00:00:36,054\n委員好部長好部長早上我聽了很多委員就是針對這個社會救助法有提出一些意見那我今天也是一樣就是說我們這個社會救助法已經很多年都沒有修那我們在民意代表在第一線其實都會碰到很多民眾他確實生活很困苦那可是他就是在我們的地方政府\n\n3\n00:00:36,714 --> 00:00:56,060\n社工去訪視之後那申請這個資料也送了然後申請之後發現他是不符合資格的都想請教就是說根據這個衛福部的這個統計我們到2023年第二季的截止就是說我們享有這個低收入低收入資格的就只有在1.2%\n\n4\n00:00:59,001 --> 00:01:20,134\n中低收入戶的話也只有占2.4那整個加起來就是差不多是這個56萬人那其實我剛剛有看到幾個委員有特別提到就是說在幾個國家內其實我們譬如說日本、韓國、英國、美國我們針對這個中低收入的這個部分其實我們是\n\n5\n00:01:20,774 --> 00:01:37,736\n算是我們中低收入戶的這個部分算是少的那我今天想要問的就是說到底是我們整個經濟狀況好呢還是因為我們這個計算的方式跟其他的國家是不一樣造成就是說我們有很多民眾\n\n6\n00:01:38,337 --> 00:01:55,022\n他真的即使是生活很困苦可是他就是沒有達到可以請領的這個資格那我想請教就是說部長你針對這部分就是我們這個貧窮的這個統計是不是有點失真我想我們都會有根據\n\n7\n00:01:57,062 --> 00:02:25,656\n可不可以容許請理事報告那這個部分其實是我們雖然中低收入是2.26但是我們另外針對中低老人津貼身障生活補助也照顧了大概196萬經濟弱勢者所以其實我們照顧是8.38%那這個部分我想我們會針對這個貧窮線那在修法的方向我們是當然是經濟安全、和平之利跟社會\n\n8\n00:02:26,596 --> 00:02:46,247\n投資為核心有關於這個定義方面以及適合如何調整我請理事回答一下部長我今天想要講的就是說其實在社會當中即使他我們訂了一些資格他不符合資格可是確實他是有困難的那怎麼樣把這些人接住\n\n9\n00:02:46,807 --> 00:03:09,765\n我是請呂次非常感謝黃委員的這個詢詢我有兩個重點第一個包委員這張圖所引用的我必須要說這是錯誤的我知道很多委員都引用社救門但是這是錯誤的第一個我們要弄清楚什麼叫相對貧窮率第二個是社會救助的涵蓋率這兩個是不一樣概念如果說是相對貧窮的話是可支配所得\n\n10\n00:03:10,225 --> 00:03:32,764\nOECD國家可是被所得中位數的50%以這個定義的話沒錯韓國是15.3日本是15.7我跟報告委員台灣是7.43這等於說一定要更正我也跟他們說我在學校就是教社會福利概論跟社會救助這個一定這是錯誤的一定要澄清啦第二點貧窮率那個社會救助的涵蓋率2.5\n\n11\n00:03:34,158 --> 00:03:42,884\n韓國是多少4.5但是日本是多少1.62我一定要先講清楚不然會愧對我的學生我一定要先講清楚這第一點第二點但即使是這樣我們台灣做了夠不夠不夠不夠所以我們確實要有一些放寬這個放寬包括我們現在目前所謂動產不動產還有一個所謂赦赦所得這個我們都虛心檢討以上兩點來跟我們報告剛剛部長次長有特別提到就是說這個有關這個申請資格啦動產跟不動產\n\n12\n00:04:03,817 --> 00:04:28,984\n就以彰化縣來講我們這個中低的這個動產是每人每年是差不多14萬2000那不動產的部分是560萬那低收的話是每人每年9萬不動產的部分是373萬那其實對這個一般中低收入戶的這個民眾來講其實他如果說他擁有\n\n13\n00:04:31,826 --> 00:04:43,478\n有的是那種三合院共同持有那如果像這樣子的話其實他們要申請中低或低收其實確實都還有一個困難所以我認為就是說未來這個動產跟不動產的這個這個金額我覺得應該是還要在\n\n14\n00:04:50,104 --> 00:05:10,491\n提高因為現在的房價我相信部長你也知道如果說就是唯一一間可以住的房子那當然你們說也可以排除嘛可是排除之後他還是有時候根本也請不到確實他經濟非常的困難那像這樣子的話通常我們在第一線我們會請這個地方的慈善會來協助\n\n15\n00:05:12,091 --> 00:05:35,138\n可是地方的慈善卫协助的话他有的就只有一次性的协助他没办法就是说每个月给这个家庭有一些帮忙所以我也希望就是说既然这个社会救助法已经这么多年没有去做一个调整我觉得针对这个请领的资格动产不动产的这个部分我觉得应该也要去做一个调整\n\n16\n00:05:35,976 --> 00:05:51,830\n是的,謝委員我想不只中南部啦,應該是全國各地都有大家一塊塊放一百個人親親,一台放一百個人在持有你把他算進去他就沒有資格,其實他生活是很\n\n17\n00:05:53,096 --> 00:05:59,483\n很辛苦的啦那這個部分我相信那個未來我們會來討論這個理事要不要陳獨剛部長剛剛說這個確實我們共同時分這個也很常見我自己也有在檢察院說的但是有一點\n\n18\n00:06:13,177 --> 00:06:26,523\n這個裡面但是我要跟你們報告我們這裡面雖然是共同持份我們是算他的比例啦啊當然這個部分是不是要來列入我就這個這個是不是要來來剔除因為說有些有的就看得到吃不到那工座這麼大啊你要對線的可能也有困難啊所以\n\n19\n00:06:30,225 --> 00:06:57,200\n我想可以來檢討來朝檢討這個方向好那另外我想請教部長就是我們看到這個台北市他現行的中低收入戶的標準每人每月是這個兩萬九千多是那你看我們現在台灣的基本工資調整月薪新台幣是兩萬八千多所以我們如果今天是領一個最低薪資的話在台北這邊算是中低收入戶\n\n20\n00:06:59,902 --> 00:07:19,098\n所以我是覺得說這個部分不論是在台北也好或是在台灣的其他鄉鎮各個縣市我覺得這部分應該也要去做一個檢討譬如說彰化的話它是每人每月超過兩萬三那台北是兩萬九\n\n21\n00:07:21,120 --> 00:07:37,071\n那這樣子我覺得這一部分我覺得應該也要去做一個檢討我不知道說部長你這邊的看法是這樣我想我們會檢討如果今天我在這個彰化這邊領了一個最低薪資或其他啦\n\n22\n00:07:38,032 --> 00:08:02,292\n可能在彰化這邊沒有達到他的這個標準可是在台北他就是一個中低收入中低收入戶當然就是說北部的這個所有的生活費可能比其他縣市還高這個當然應該是這樣子可是你看到如果他今天是領一個最低薪資我們講的最低薪資兩萬八的話在台北就是一個中低收入戶\n\n23\n00:08:06,882 --> 00:08:12,767\n這個要看人口數還是要除以人口數,平均人口數\n\n24\n00:08:26,978 --> 00:08:46,989\n好,謝謝所以我今天要跟保廷和處長說就是我們所有的在全台灣各地的民眾如果他真的生活經濟困難的話即使他的整個資格,他可能要申請租給不符合所以我們碰到很多都是這樣,他可能就是邊緣戶\n\n25\n00:08:48,550 --> 00:09:05,283\n他變員戶那他申請的話他就是不符合資格那很多可能政府沒辦法做的就是所有的慈善單位他會召集一些人來協助所以我認為就是說這個社會救助法的這個部分我覺得應該已經是\n\n26\n00:09:07,925 --> 00:09:34,496\n幾十年沒去做調整啦我覺得應該是要好好討論該調整的要調整那也要讓這個需要被照顧的人真的能夠得到政府的照顧我覺得這個是最重要的我們新的修法的方向有四大主則其中最第一個主則就是這個擴大照顧輔助弱勢所以在檢討我們會檢討認定的標準\n\n27\n00:09:37,658 --> 00:09:49,331\n尤其是增訂長期失業者等就業不利者,多元折算的機制,這個都會在,剛剛委員所推詢的都是在我們一個重要第一個組織裡面來討論\n\n28\n00:09:51,954 --> 00:10:19,988\n我希望就是說真的建務委角色應該要充分的扮演而不是說有時候就交給地方的慈善單位我覺得這個也不應該就是說應該我們在第一線那政府應該可以協助了如果確實沒辦法或者是再找慈善單位大家來協助我覺得說最重要就是建務立一定是要持續關心才不會有一些憾事發生我們自己有這個責任把這件事情做好\n\n29\n00:10:20,928 --> 00:10:21,089\n好謝謝委員\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n4152\t4514\t謝謝主席,我們請部長\n11354\t36054\t委員好部長好部長早上我聽了很多委員就是針對這個社會救助法有提出一些意見那我今天也是一樣就是說我們這個社會救助法已經很多年都沒有修那我們在民意代表在第一線其實都會碰到很多民眾他確實生活很困苦那可是他就是在我們的地方政府\n36714\t56060\t社工去訪視之後那申請這個資料也送了然後申請之後發現他是不符合資格的都想請教就是說根據這個衛福部的這個統計我們到2023年第二季的截止就是說我們享有這個低收入低收入資格的就只有在1.2%\n59001\t80134\t中低收入戶的話也只有占2.4那整個加起來就是差不多是這個56萬人那其實我剛剛有看到幾個委員有特別提到就是說在幾個國家內其實我們譬如說日本、韓國、英國、美國我們針對這個中低收入的這個部分其實我們是\n80774\t97736\t算是我們中低收入戶的這個部分算是少的那我今天想要問的就是說到底是我們整個經濟狀況好呢還是因為我們這個計算的方式跟其他的國家是不一樣造成就是說我們有很多民眾\n98337\t115022\t他真的即使是生活很困苦可是他就是沒有達到可以請領的這個資格那我想請教就是說部長你針對這部分就是我們這個貧窮的這個統計是不是有點失真我想我們都會有根據\n117062\t145656\t可不可以容許請理事報告那這個部分其實是我們雖然中低收入是2.26但是我們另外針對中低老人津貼身障生活補助也照顧了大概196萬經濟弱勢者所以其實我們照顧是8.38%那這個部分我想我們會針對這個貧窮線那在修法的方向我們是當然是經濟安全、和平之利跟社會\n146596\t166247\t投資為核心有關於這個定義方面以及適合如何調整我請理事回答一下部長我今天想要講的就是說其實在社會當中即使他我們訂了一些資格他不符合資格可是確實他是有困難的那怎麼樣把這些人接住\n166807\t189765\t我是請呂次非常感謝黃委員的這個詢詢我有兩個重點第一個包委員這張圖所引用的我必須要說這是錯誤的我知道很多委員都引用社救門但是這是錯誤的第一個我們要弄清楚什麼叫相對貧窮率第二個是社會救助的涵蓋率這兩個是不一樣概念如果說是相對貧窮的話是可支配所得\n190225\t212764\tOECD國家 可是被所得中位數的50%以這個定義的話 沒錯韓國是15.3 日本是15.7 我跟報告委員台灣是7.43 這等於說一定要更正我也跟他們說我在學校就是教社會福利概論跟社會救助這個一定 這是錯誤的 一定要澄清啦第二點 貧窮率 那個社會救助的涵蓋率2.5\n214158\t222884\t韓國是多少 4.5 但是日本是多少 1.62我一定要先講清楚 不然會愧對我的學生我一定要先講清楚 這第一點第二點 但即使是這樣我們台灣做了夠不夠 不夠不夠所以我們確實要有一些放寬這個放寬包括我們現在目前所謂動產不動產還有一個所謂赦赦所得 這個我們都虛心檢討以上兩點 來跟我們報告剛剛部長 次長有特別提到就是說這個有關這個申請資格啦 動產跟不動產\n243817\t268984\t就以彰化縣來講我們這個中低的這個動產是每人每年是差不多14萬2000那不動產的部分是560萬那低收的話是每人每年9萬不動產的部分是373萬那其實對這個一般中低收入戶的這個民眾來講其實他如果說他擁有\n271826\t283478\t有的是那種三合院共同持有那如果像這樣子的話其實他們要申請中低或低收其實確實都還有一個困難所以我認為就是說未來這個動產跟不動產的這個這個金額我覺得應該是還要在\n290104\t310491\t提高因為現在的房價我相信部長你也知道如果說就是唯一一間可以住的房子那當然你們說也可以排除嘛可是排除之後他還是有時候根本也請不到確實他經濟非常的困難那像這樣子的話通常我們在第一線我們會請這個地方的慈善會來協助\n312091\t335138\t可是地方的慈善卫协助的话他有的就只有一次性的协助他没办法就是说每个月给这个家庭有一些帮忙所以我也希望就是说既然这个社会救助法已经这么多年没有去做一个调整我觉得针对这个请领的资格动产不动产的这个部分我觉得应该也要去做一个调整\n335976\t351830\t是的,謝委員我想不只中南部啦,應該是全國各地都有大家一塊塊放一百個人親親,一台放一百個人在持有你把他算進去他就沒有資格,其實他生活是很\n353096\t359483\t很辛苦的啦那這個部分我相信那個未來我們會來討論這個理事要不要陳獨剛部長剛剛說這個確實我們共同時分這個也很常見我自己也有在檢察院說的但是有一點\n373177\t386523\t這個裡面但是我要跟你們報告我們這裡面雖然是共同持份我們是算他的比例啦啊當然這個部分是不是要來列入我就這個這個是不是要來來剔除因為說有些有的就看得到吃不到那工座這麼大啊你要對線的可能也有困難啊所以\n390225\t417200\t我想可以來檢討來朝檢討這個方向好那另外我想請教部長就是我們看到這個台北市他現行的中低收入戶的標準每人每月是這個兩萬九千多是那你看我們現在台灣的基本工資調整月薪新台幣是兩萬八千多所以我們如果今天是領一個最低薪資的話在台北這邊算是中低收入戶\n419902\t439098\t所以我是覺得說這個部分不論是在台北也好或是在台灣的其他鄉鎮各個縣市我覺得這部分應該也要去做一個檢討譬如說彰化的話它是每人每月超過兩萬三那台北是兩萬九\n441120\t457071\t那這樣子我覺得這一部分我覺得應該也要去做一個檢討我不知道說部長你這邊的看法是這樣我想我們會檢討如果今天我在這個彰化這邊領了一個最低薪資或其他啦\n458032\t482292\t可能在彰化這邊沒有達到他的這個標準可是在台北他就是一個中低收入中低收入戶當然就是說北部的這個所有的生活費可能比其他縣市還高這個當然應該是這樣子可是你看到如果他今天是領一個最低薪資我們講的最低薪資兩萬八的話在台北就是一個中低收入戶\n486882\t492767\t這個要看人口數還是要除以人口數,平均人口數\n506978\t526989\t好,謝謝所以我今天要跟保廷和處長說就是我們所有的在全台灣各地的民眾如果他真的生活經濟困難的話即使他的整個資格,他可能要申請租給不符合所以我們碰到很多都是這樣,他可能就是邊緣戶\n528550\t545283\t他變員戶那他申請的話他就是不符合資格那很多可能政府沒辦法做的就是所有的慈善單位他會召集一些人來協助所以我認為就是說這個社會救助法的這個部分我覺得應該已經是\n547925\t574496\t幾十年沒去做調整啦 我覺得應該是要好好討論該調整的要調整那也要讓這個需要被照顧的人真的能夠得到政府的照顧我覺得這個是最重要的我們新的修法的方向有四大主則 其中最第一個主則就是這個擴大照顧輔助弱勢所以在檢討 我們會檢討認定的標準\n577658\t589331\t尤其是增訂長期失業者等就業不利者,多元折算的機制,這個都會在,剛剛委員所推詢的都是在我們一個重要第一個組織裡面來討論\n591954\t619988\t我希望就是說真的建務委角色應該要充分的扮演而不是說有時候就交給地方的慈善單位我覺得這個也不應該就是說應該我們在第一線那政府應該可以協助了如果確實沒辦法或者是再找慈善單位大家來協助我覺得說最重要就是建務立一定是要持續關心才不會有一些憾事發生我們自己有這個責任把這件事情做好\n620928\t621089\t好 謝謝委員\n","txt":"謝謝主席,我們請部長\n委員好部長好部長早上我聽了很多委員就是針對這個社會救助法有提出一些意見那我今天也是一樣就是說我們這個社會救助法已經很多年都沒有修那我們在民意代表在第一線其實都會碰到很多民眾他確實生活很困苦那可是他就是在我們的地方政府\n社工去訪視之後那申請這個資料也送了然後申請之後發現他是不符合資格的都想請教就是說根據這個衛福部的這個統計我們到2023年第二季的截止就是說我們享有這個低收入低收入資格的就只有在1.2%\n中低收入戶的話也只有占2.4那整個加起來就是差不多是這個56萬人那其實我剛剛有看到幾個委員有特別提到就是說在幾個國家內其實我們譬如說日本、韓國、英國、美國我們針對這個中低收入的這個部分其實我們是\n算是我們中低收入戶的這個部分算是少的那我今天想要問的就是說到底是我們整個經濟狀況好呢還是因為我們這個計算的方式跟其他的國家是不一樣造成就是說我們有很多民眾\n他真的即使是生活很困苦可是他就是沒有達到可以請領的這個資格那我想請教就是說部長你針對這部分就是我們這個貧窮的這個統計是不是有點失真我想我們都會有根據\n可不可以容許請理事報告那這個部分其實是我們雖然中低收入是2.26但是我們另外針對中低老人津貼身障生活補助也照顧了大概196萬經濟弱勢者所以其實我們照顧是8.38%那這個部分我想我們會針對這個貧窮線那在修法的方向我們是當然是經濟安全、和平之利跟社會\n投資為核心有關於這個定義方面以及適合如何調整我請理事回答一下部長我今天想要講的就是說其實在社會當中即使他我們訂了一些資格他不符合資格可是確實他是有困難的那怎麼樣把這些人接住\n我是請呂次非常感謝黃委員的這個詢詢我有兩個重點第一個包委員這張圖所引用的我必須要說這是錯誤的我知道很多委員都引用社救門但是這是錯誤的第一個我們要弄清楚什麼叫相對貧窮率第二個是社會救助的涵蓋率這兩個是不一樣概念如果說是相對貧窮的話是可支配所得\nOECD國家 可是被所得中位數的50%以這個定義的話 沒錯韓國是15.3 日本是15.7 我跟報告委員台灣是7.43 這等於說一定要更正我也跟他們說我在學校就是教社會福利概論跟社會救助這個一定 這是錯誤的 一定要澄清啦第二點 貧窮率 那個社會救助的涵蓋率2.5\n韓國是多少 4.5 但是日本是多少 1.62我一定要先講清楚 不然會愧對我的學生我一定要先講清楚 這第一點第二點 但即使是這樣我們台灣做了夠不夠 不夠不夠所以我們確實要有一些放寬這個放寬包括我們現在目前所謂動產不動產還有一個所謂赦赦所得 這個我們都虛心檢討以上兩點 來跟我們報告剛剛部長 次長有特別提到就是說這個有關這個申請資格啦 動產跟不動產\n就以彰化縣來講我們這個中低的這個動產是每人每年是差不多14萬2000那不動產的部分是560萬那低收的話是每人每年9萬不動產的部分是373萬那其實對這個一般中低收入戶的這個民眾來講其實他如果說他擁有\n有的是那種三合院共同持有那如果像這樣子的話其實他們要申請中低或低收其實確實都還有一個困難所以我認為就是說未來這個動產跟不動產的這個這個金額我覺得應該是還要在\n提高因為現在的房價我相信部長你也知道如果說就是唯一一間可以住的房子那當然你們說也可以排除嘛可是排除之後他還是有時候根本也請不到確實他經濟非常的困難那像這樣子的話通常我們在第一線我們會請這個地方的慈善會來協助\n可是地方的慈善卫协助的话他有的就只有一次性的协助他没办法就是说每个月给这个家庭有一些帮忙所以我也希望就是说既然这个社会救助法已经这么多年没有去做一个调整我觉得针对这个请领的资格动产不动产的这个部分我觉得应该也要去做一个调整\n是的,謝委員我想不只中南部啦,應該是全國各地都有大家一塊塊放一百個人親親,一台放一百個人在持有你把他算進去他就沒有資格,其實他生活是很\n很辛苦的啦那這個部分我相信那個未來我們會來討論這個理事要不要陳獨剛部長剛剛說這個確實我們共同時分這個也很常見我自己也有在檢察院說的但是有一點\n這個裡面但是我要跟你們報告我們這裡面雖然是共同持份我們是算他的比例啦啊當然這個部分是不是要來列入我就這個這個是不是要來來剔除因為說有些有的就看得到吃不到那工座這麼大啊你要對線的可能也有困難啊所以\n我想可以來檢討來朝檢討這個方向好那另外我想請教部長就是我們看到這個台北市他現行的中低收入戶的標準每人每月是這個兩萬九千多是那你看我們現在台灣的基本工資調整月薪新台幣是兩萬八千多所以我們如果今天是領一個最低薪資的話在台北這邊算是中低收入戶\n所以我是覺得說這個部分不論是在台北也好或是在台灣的其他鄉鎮各個縣市我覺得這部分應該也要去做一個檢討譬如說彰化的話它是每人每月超過兩萬三那台北是兩萬九\n那這樣子我覺得這一部分我覺得應該也要去做一個檢討我不知道說部長你這邊的看法是這樣我想我們會檢討如果今天我在這個彰化這邊領了一個最低薪資或其他啦\n可能在彰化這邊沒有達到他的這個標準可是在台北他就是一個中低收入中低收入戶當然就是說北部的這個所有的生活費可能比其他縣市還高這個當然應該是這樣子可是你看到如果他今天是領一個最低薪資我們講的最低薪資兩萬八的話在台北就是一個中低收入戶\n這個要看人口數還是要除以人口數,平均人口數\n好,謝謝所以我今天要跟保廷和處長說就是我們所有的在全台灣各地的民眾如果他真的生活經濟困難的話即使他的整個資格,他可能要申請租給不符合所以我們碰到很多都是這樣,他可能就是邊緣戶\n他變員戶那他申請的話他就是不符合資格那很多可能政府沒辦法做的就是所有的慈善單位他會召集一些人來協助所以我認為就是說這個社會救助法的這個部分我覺得應該已經是\n幾十年沒去做調整啦 我覺得應該是要好好討論該調整的要調整那也要讓這個需要被照顧的人真的能夠得到政府的照顧我覺得這個是最重要的我們新的修法的方向有四大主則 其中最第一個主則就是這個擴大照顧輔助弱勢所以在檢討 我們會檢討認定的標準\n尤其是增訂長期失業者等就業不利者,多元折算的機制,這個都會在,剛剛委員所推詢的都是在我們一個重要第一個組織裡面來討論\n我希望就是說真的建務委角色應該要充分的扮演而不是說有時候就交給地方的慈善單位我覺得這個也不應該就是說應該我們在第一線那政府應該可以協助了如果確實沒辦法或者是再找慈善單位大家來協助我覺得說最重要就是建務立一定是要持續關心才不會有一些憾事發生我們自己有這個責任把這件事情做好\n好 謝謝委員\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:04.152 --> 00:04.514\n謝謝主席,我們請部長\n\n00:11.354 --> 00:36.054\n委員好部長好部長早上我聽了很多委員就是針對這個社會救助法有提出一些意見那我今天也是一樣就是說我們這個社會救助法已經很多年都沒有修那我們在民意代表在第一線其實都會碰到很多民眾他確實生活很困苦那可是他就是在我們的地方政府\n\n00:36.714 --> 00:56.060\n社工去訪視之後那申請這個資料也送了然後申請之後發現他是不符合資格的都想請教就是說根據這個衛福部的這個統計我們到2023年第二季的截止就是說我們享有這個低收入低收入資格的就只有在1.2%\n\n00:59.001 --> 01:20.134\n中低收入戶的話也只有占2.4那整個加起來就是差不多是這個56萬人那其實我剛剛有看到幾個委員有特別提到就是說在幾個國家內其實我們譬如說日本、韓國、英國、美國我們針對這個中低收入的這個部分其實我們是\n\n01:20.774 --> 01:37.736\n算是我們中低收入戶的這個部分算是少的那我今天想要問的就是說到底是我們整個經濟狀況好呢還是因為我們這個計算的方式跟其他的國家是不一樣造成就是說我們有很多民眾\n\n01:38.337 --> 01:55.022\n他真的即使是生活很困苦可是他就是沒有達到可以請領的這個資格那我想請教就是說部長你針對這部分就是我們這個貧窮的這個統計是不是有點失真我想我們都會有根據\n\n01:57.062 --> 02:25.656\n可不可以容許請理事報告那這個部分其實是我們雖然中低收入是2.26但是我們另外針對中低老人津貼身障生活補助也照顧了大概196萬經濟弱勢者所以其實我們照顧是8.38%那這個部分我想我們會針對這個貧窮線那在修法的方向我們是當然是經濟安全、和平之利跟社會\n\n02:26.596 --> 02:46.247\n投資為核心有關於這個定義方面以及適合如何調整我請理事回答一下部長我今天想要講的就是說其實在社會當中即使他我們訂了一些資格他不符合資格可是確實他是有困難的那怎麼樣把這些人接住\n\n02:46.807 --> 03:09.765\n我是請呂次非常感謝黃委員的這個詢詢我有兩個重點第一個包委員這張圖所引用的我必須要說這是錯誤的我知道很多委員都引用社救門但是這是錯誤的第一個我們要弄清楚什麼叫相對貧窮率第二個是社會救助的涵蓋率這兩個是不一樣概念如果說是相對貧窮的話是可支配所得\n\n03:10.225 --> 03:32.764\nOECD國家可是被所得中位數的50%以這個定義的話沒錯韓國是15.3日本是15.7我跟報告委員台灣是7.43這等於說一定要更正我也跟他們說我在學校就是教社會福利概論跟社會救助這個一定這是錯誤的一定要澄清啦第二點貧窮率那個社會救助的涵蓋率2.5\n\n03:34.158 --> 03:42.884\n韓國是多少4.5但是日本是多少1.62我一定要先講清楚不然會愧對我的學生我一定要先講清楚這第一點第二點但即使是這樣我們台灣做了夠不夠不夠不夠所以我們確實要有一些放寬這個放寬包括我們現在目前所謂動產不動產還有一個所謂赦赦所得這個我們都虛心檢討以上兩點來跟我們報告剛剛部長次長有特別提到就是說這個有關這個申請資格啦動產跟不動產\n\n04:03.817 --> 04:28.984\n就以彰化縣來講我們這個中低的這個動產是每人每年是差不多14萬2000那不動產的部分是560萬那低收的話是每人每年9萬不動產的部分是373萬那其實對這個一般中低收入戶的這個民眾來講其實他如果說他擁有\n\n04:31.826 --> 04:43.478\n有的是那種三合院共同持有那如果像這樣子的話其實他們要申請中低或低收其實確實都還有一個困難所以我認為就是說未來這個動產跟不動產的這個這個金額我覺得應該是還要在\n\n04:50.104 --> 05:10.491\n提高因為現在的房價我相信部長你也知道如果說就是唯一一間可以住的房子那當然你們說也可以排除嘛可是排除之後他還是有時候根本也請不到確實他經濟非常的困難那像這樣子的話通常我們在第一線我們會請這個地方的慈善會來協助\n\n05:12.091 --> 05:35.138\n可是地方的慈善卫协助的话他有的就只有一次性的协助他没办法就是说每个月给这个家庭有一些帮忙所以我也希望就是说既然这个社会救助法已经这么多年没有去做一个调整我觉得针对这个请领的资格动产不动产的这个部分我觉得应该也要去做一个调整\n\n05:35.976 --> 05:51.830\n是的,謝委員我想不只中南部啦,應該是全國各地都有大家一塊塊放一百個人親親,一台放一百個人在持有你把他算進去他就沒有資格,其實他生活是很\n\n05:53.096 --> 05:59.483\n很辛苦的啦那這個部分我相信那個未來我們會來討論這個理事要不要陳獨剛部長剛剛說這個確實我們共同時分這個也很常見我自己也有在檢察院說的但是有一點\n\n06:13.177 --> 06:26.523\n這個裡面但是我要跟你們報告我們這裡面雖然是共同持份我們是算他的比例啦啊當然這個部分是不是要來列入我就這個這個是不是要來來剔除因為說有些有的就看得到吃不到那工座這麼大啊你要對線的可能也有困難啊所以\n\n06:30.225 --> 06:57.200\n我想可以來檢討來朝檢討這個方向好那另外我想請教部長就是我們看到這個台北市他現行的中低收入戶的標準每人每月是這個兩萬九千多是那你看我們現在台灣的基本工資調整月薪新台幣是兩萬八千多所以我們如果今天是領一個最低薪資的話在台北這邊算是中低收入戶\n\n06:59.902 --> 07:19.098\n所以我是覺得說這個部分不論是在台北也好或是在台灣的其他鄉鎮各個縣市我覺得這部分應該也要去做一個檢討譬如說彰化的話它是每人每月超過兩萬三那台北是兩萬九\n\n07:21.120 --> 07:37.071\n那這樣子我覺得這一部分我覺得應該也要去做一個檢討我不知道說部長你這邊的看法是這樣我想我們會檢討如果今天我在這個彰化這邊領了一個最低薪資或其他啦\n\n07:38.032 --> 08:02.292\n可能在彰化這邊沒有達到他的這個標準可是在台北他就是一個中低收入中低收入戶當然就是說北部的這個所有的生活費可能比其他縣市還高這個當然應該是這樣子可是你看到如果他今天是領一個最低薪資我們講的最低薪資兩萬八的話在台北就是一個中低收入戶\n\n08:06.882 --> 08:12.767\n這個要看人口數還是要除以人口數,平均人口數\n\n08:26.978 --> 08:46.989\n好,謝謝所以我今天要跟保廷和處長說就是我們所有的在全台灣各地的民眾如果他真的生活經濟困難的話即使他的整個資格,他可能要申請租給不符合所以我們碰到很多都是這樣,他可能就是邊緣戶\n\n08:48.550 --> 09:05.283\n他變員戶那他申請的話他就是不符合資格那很多可能政府沒辦法做的就是所有的慈善單位他會召集一些人來協助所以我認為就是說這個社會救助法的這個部分我覺得應該已經是\n\n09:07.925 --> 09:34.496\n幾十年沒去做調整啦我覺得應該是要好好討論該調整的要調整那也要讓這個需要被照顧的人真的能夠得到政府的照顧我覺得這個是最重要的我們新的修法的方向有四大主則其中最第一個主則就是這個擴大照顧輔助弱勢所以在檢討我們會檢討認定的標準\n\n09:37.658 --> 09:49.331\n尤其是增訂長期失業者等就業不利者,多元折算的機制,這個都會在,剛剛委員所推詢的都是在我們一個重要第一個組織裡面來討論\n\n09:51.954 --> 10:19.988\n我希望就是說真的建務委角色應該要充分的扮演而不是說有時候就交給地方的慈善單位我覺得這個也不應該就是說應該我們在第一線那政府應該可以協助了如果確實沒辦法或者是再找慈善單位大家來協助我覺得說最重要就是建務立一定是要持續關心才不會有一些憾事發生我們自己有這個責任把這件事情做好\n\n10:20.928 --> 10:21.089\n好謝謝委員\n\n","segments":[{"start":4.152,"end":4.514,"text":"謝謝主席,我們請部長"},{"start":11.354,"end":36.054,"text":"委員好部長好部長早上我聽了很多委員就是針對這個社會救助法有提出一些意見那我今天也是一樣就是說我們這個社會救助法已經很多年都沒有修那我們在民意代表在第一線其實都會碰到很多民眾他確實生活很困苦那可是他就是在我們的地方政府"},{"start":36.714,"end":56.06,"text":"社工去訪視之後那申請這個資料也送了然後申請之後發現他是不符合資格的都想請教就是說根據這個衛福部的這個統計我們到2023年第二季的截止就是說我們享有這個低收入低收入資格的就只有在1.2%"},{"start":59.001,"end":80.134,"text":"中低收入戶的話也只有占2.4那整個加起來就是差不多是這個56萬人那其實我剛剛有看到幾個委員有特別提到就是說在幾個國家內其實我們譬如說日本、韓國、英國、美國我們針對這個中低收入的這個部分其實我們是"},{"start":80.774,"end":97.736,"text":"算是我們中低收入戶的這個部分算是少的那我今天想要問的就是說到底是我們整個經濟狀況好呢還是因為我們這個計算的方式跟其他的國家是不一樣造成就是說我們有很多民眾"},{"start":98.337,"end":115.022,"text":"他真的即使是生活很困苦可是他就是沒有達到可以請領的這個資格那我想請教就是說部長你針對這部分就是我們這個貧窮的這個統計是不是有點失真我想我們都會有根據"},{"start":117.062,"end":145.656,"text":"可不可以容許請理事報告那這個部分其實是我們雖然中低收入是2.26但是我們另外針對中低老人津貼身障生活補助也照顧了大概196萬經濟弱勢者所以其實我們照顧是8.38%那這個部分我想我們會針對這個貧窮線那在修法的方向我們是當然是經濟安全、和平之利跟社會"},{"start":146.596,"end":166.247,"text":"投資為核心有關於這個定義方面以及適合如何調整我請理事回答一下部長我今天想要講的就是說其實在社會當中即使他我們訂了一些資格他不符合資格可是確實他是有困難的那怎麼樣把這些人接住"},{"start":166.807,"end":189.765,"text":"我是請呂次非常感謝黃委員的這個詢詢我有兩個重點第一個包委員這張圖所引用的我必須要說這是錯誤的我知道很多委員都引用社救門但是這是錯誤的第一個我們要弄清楚什麼叫相對貧窮率第二個是社會救助的涵蓋率這兩個是不一樣概念如果說是相對貧窮的話是可支配所得"},{"start":190.225,"end":212.764,"text":"OECD國家 可是被所得中位數的50%以這個定義的話 沒錯韓國是15.3 日本是15.7 我跟報告委員台灣是7.43 這等於說一定要更正我也跟他們說我在學校就是教社會福利概論跟社會救助這個一定 這是錯誤的 一定要澄清啦第二點 貧窮率 那個社會救助的涵蓋率2.5"},{"start":214.158,"end":222.884,"text":"韓國是多少 4.5 但是日本是多少 1.62我一定要先講清楚 不然會愧對我的學生我一定要先講清楚 這第一點第二點 但即使是這樣我們台灣做了夠不夠 不夠不夠所以我們確實要有一些放寬這個放寬包括我們現在目前所謂動產不動產還有一個所謂赦赦所得 這個我們都虛心檢討以上兩點 來跟我們報告剛剛部長 次長有特別提到就是說這個有關這個申請資格啦 動產跟不動產"},{"start":243.817,"end":268.984,"text":"就以彰化縣來講我們這個中低的這個動產是每人每年是差不多14萬2000那不動產的部分是560萬那低收的話是每人每年9萬不動產的部分是373萬那其實對這個一般中低收入戶的這個民眾來講其實他如果說他擁有"},{"start":271.826,"end":283.478,"text":"有的是那種三合院共同持有那如果像這樣子的話其實他們要申請中低或低收其實確實都還有一個困難所以我認為就是說未來這個動產跟不動產的這個這個金額我覺得應該是還要在"},{"start":290.104,"end":310.491,"text":"提高因為現在的房價我相信部長你也知道如果說就是唯一一間可以住的房子那當然你們說也可以排除嘛可是排除之後他還是有時候根本也請不到確實他經濟非常的困難那像這樣子的話通常我們在第一線我們會請這個地方的慈善會來協助"},{"start":312.091,"end":335.138,"text":"可是地方的慈善卫协助的话他有的就只有一次性的协助他没办法就是说每个月给这个家庭有一些帮忙所以我也希望就是说既然这个社会救助法已经这么多年没有去做一个调整我觉得针对这个请领的资格动产不动产的这个部分我觉得应该也要去做一个调整"},{"start":335.976,"end":351.83,"text":"是的,謝委員我想不只中南部啦,應該是全國各地都有大家一塊塊放一百個人親親,一台放一百個人在持有你把他算進去他就沒有資格,其實他生活是很"},{"start":353.096,"end":359.483,"text":"很辛苦的啦那這個部分我相信那個未來我們會來討論這個理事要不要陳獨剛部長剛剛說這個確實我們共同時分這個也很常見我自己也有在檢察院說的但是有一點"},{"start":373.177,"end":386.523,"text":"這個裡面但是我要跟你們報告我們這裡面雖然是共同持份我們是算他的比例啦啊當然這個部分是不是要來列入我就這個這個是不是要來來剔除因為說有些有的就看得到吃不到那工座這麼大啊你要對線的可能也有困難啊所以"},{"start":390.225,"end":417.2,"text":"我想可以來檢討來朝檢討這個方向好那另外我想請教部長就是我們看到這個台北市他現行的中低收入戶的標準每人每月是這個兩萬九千多是那你看我們現在台灣的基本工資調整月薪新台幣是兩萬八千多所以我們如果今天是領一個最低薪資的話在台北這邊算是中低收入戶"},{"start":419.902,"end":439.098,"text":"所以我是覺得說這個部分不論是在台北也好或是在台灣的其他鄉鎮各個縣市我覺得這部分應該也要去做一個檢討譬如說彰化的話它是每人每月超過兩萬三那台北是兩萬九"},{"start":441.12,"end":457.071,"text":"那這樣子我覺得這一部分我覺得應該也要去做一個檢討我不知道說部長你這邊的看法是這樣我想我們會檢討如果今天我在這個彰化這邊領了一個最低薪資或其他啦"},{"start":458.032,"end":482.292,"text":"可能在彰化這邊沒有達到他的這個標準可是在台北他就是一個中低收入中低收入戶當然就是說北部的這個所有的生活費可能比其他縣市還高這個當然應該是這樣子可是你看到如果他今天是領一個最低薪資我們講的最低薪資兩萬八的話在台北就是一個中低收入戶"},{"start":486.882,"end":492.767,"text":"這個要看人口數還是要除以人口數,平均人口數"},{"start":506.978,"end":526.989,"text":"好,謝謝所以我今天要跟保廷和處長說就是我們所有的在全台灣各地的民眾如果他真的生活經濟困難的話即使他的整個資格,他可能要申請租給不符合所以我們碰到很多都是這樣,他可能就是邊緣戶"},{"start":528.55,"end":545.283,"text":"他變員戶那他申請的話他就是不符合資格那很多可能政府沒辦法做的就是所有的慈善單位他會召集一些人來協助所以我認為就是說這個社會救助法的這個部分我覺得應該已經是"},{"start":547.925,"end":574.496,"text":"幾十年沒去做調整啦 我覺得應該是要好好討論該調整的要調整那也要讓這個需要被照顧的人真的能夠得到政府的照顧我覺得這個是最重要的我們新的修法的方向有四大主則 其中最第一個主則就是這個擴大照顧輔助弱勢所以在檢討 我們會檢討認定的標準"},{"start":577.658,"end":589.331,"text":"尤其是增訂長期失業者等就業不利者,多元折算的機制,這個都會在,剛剛委員所推詢的都是在我們一個重要第一個組織裡面來討論"},{"start":591.954,"end":619.988,"text":"我希望就是說真的建務委角色應該要充分的扮演而不是說有時候就交給地方的慈善單位我覺得這個也不應該就是說應該我們在第一線那政府應該可以協助了如果確實沒辦法或者是再找慈善單位大家來協助我覺得說最重要就是建務立一定是要持續關心才不會有一些憾事發生我們自己有這個責任把這件事情做好"},{"start":620.928,"end":621.089,"text":"好 謝謝委員"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":1320,"blocks":[["黃委員秀芳：（12時27分）謝謝主席，我們請部長。"],["主席：請邱部長。"],["邱部長泰源：委員好。"],["黃委員秀芳：部長好。早上聽到很多委員對社會救助法提出一些意見，我今天也是一樣，就是社會救助法已經很多年都沒有修，民意代表在第一線其實都會碰到很多民眾確實生活很困苦，可是地方政府派社工去訪視，資料也送了，可是申請之後卻發現他是不符合資格的。","我想請教的就是，根據衛福部的統計，截至2023年第2季，具有低收入戶資格的只占1.2%，中低收入戶也只占2.4%，整個加起來差不多是56萬人。我剛剛看到幾位委員特別提到，在幾個國家之內，譬如和日本、韓國、英國、美國相比，我們的中低收入戶算是少的。我今天想要問的就是，到底是我們整個經濟狀況好，還是因為我們的計算方式跟其他國家不一樣，導致我們有很多民眾即使生活很困苦，卻沒有辦法達到請領的資格？請問部長，我們針對貧窮的統計是不是有點失真？"],["邱部長泰源：這些我們都有根據，等一下容我請呂次長報告。雖然我們的中低收入戶是2.26%，但是我們另外針對中低老人津貼、身障生活補助也照顧了大約196萬名經濟弱勢者，所以其實我們照顧了8.38%的人。我們針對貧窮線的相關修法方向當然是以經濟安全、脫貧自立和社會投資為核心，至於定義方面以及如何調整，我請呂次長回答一下。"],["黃委員秀芳：好。我今天想要講的就是，其實在社會當中，雖然當事人不符合我們所訂的資格，但他確實是有困難的，這時我們要怎麼樣把這些人接住？請呂次長說明。"],["呂次長建德：非常感謝黃委員的垂詢，我有兩個重點：第一點，我必須要說，這張圖所引用的是錯誤的，我知道很多委員都引用社救門，但這是錯誤的，首先，我們要弄清楚什麼叫相對貧窮率；第二個是社會救助涵蓋率，這兩個是不一樣的概念，如果是相對貧窮的話，在OECD國家，是可支配所得中位數的50%，以這個定義來看，沒錯，韓國是15.3%，日本是15.7%，但我跟委員報告，臺灣是7.43%，這是第一個我一定要更正的地方，我在學校就是教社會福利概論跟社會救助，這是錯誤的，一定要澄清。另外，社會救助涵蓋率是2.5%，韓國4.5%；但日本多少？1.62%，這個我一定要先講清楚，不然會愧對我的學生。第二點，即使是這樣，我們臺灣做的夠不夠？不夠！所以我們確實要有一些放寬，這個放寬包括目前的動產、不動產，還有所謂的設算所得，這個我們都虛心檢討。以上兩點跟委員報告。"],["黃委員秀芳：剛剛次長特別提到申請資格，在有關動產、不動產部分，以彰化縣來講，我們的中低收入戶，其動產是每人每年14萬2,000，不動產部分是560萬；低收動產部分是每人每年9萬，不動產部分是373萬，其實對一般中低收入戶的民眾來講，如果他擁有的一間房是那種三合院或祖厝，而且是共同持有，那麼他要申請中低或低收，確實都還有一點困難，所以我認為未來動產跟不動產的金額應該還要再提高，因為以現在的房價，我相信部長也知道，如果就只有唯一一間可以住的房子，當然你們說可以排除，可是排除之後，有時候還是申請不到，但他確實經濟非常困難，像這樣的情形，通常在第一線會先請地方慈善會來協助，可是地方的慈善會通常就只有一次性的協助，沒有辦法每個月給這個家庭有一些幫忙，所以我認為，既然社會救助法已經這麼多年沒有調整，針對請領的資格、動產及不動產部分，都應該要去做一些調整。"],["邱部長泰源：是的，謝謝委員，我想不只中南部，應該全國各地都有這樣的情形，就是一塊地可能下一代的親戚上百人持有，你把這個也算進去，那他就沒有資格，但其實他生活是很辛苦的，這個部分未來我們會來討論是不是……"],["呂次長建德：誠如剛剛部長說的，共同持分的部分確實是很常見，像我自己在監察院申報的財產也有這個部分，但是我要跟委員報告，這裡面雖然是共同持分，但我們是算他的比率，當然這個部分是不是要來剔除，我們再來檢討，因為有的時候就真的是看得到吃不到，持有人那麼多，要兌現可能也……"],["黃委員秀芳：有困難。"],["呂次長建德：所以這點我想可以檢討，我們來檢討這個方向，謝謝。"],["黃委員秀芳：是，另外我再請教部長，我們看到臺北市現行中低收入戶標準，每人每月是二萬九千多，而臺灣的基本工資調整月薪是新臺幣二萬八千多，如果今天是領最低薪資的話，在臺北這邊算是中低收入戶……"],["邱部長泰源：是。"],["黃委員秀芳：對啊！我是覺得不論是在臺北或是在臺灣其他鄉鎮、各個縣市，這個部分應該也要做個檢討，譬如以彰化為例，中低收入戶大概是每人每月二萬三，臺北市是二萬九，這部分我覺得應該也要做個檢討，不知道部長你的看法如何？"],["邱部長泰源：我們會檢討。"],["黃委員秀芳：如果今天我領的是最低薪資，可能在彰化這邊就沒有達到中低標準，可是在臺北，他就是一個中低收入戶，當然北部的生活費可能比其他縣市高，應該是這樣子，可是你看他已經是領最低薪資了，我們講的最低薪資是二萬八，在臺北就是一個中低收入戶欸！"],["邱部長泰源：這個要看人口數。"],["呂次長建德：跟委員簡單報告一下，這個裡面還要除以所謂的人口數，即平均人口數。"],["黃委員秀芳：在這邊我要跟部長和次長說的是，所有在全臺灣各地的民眾，如果他真的生活經濟困難，又不符合申請中低收入戶資格，其實我們碰到很多這樣的案例，他可能就是邊緣戶，因為他不符合申請資格，可能政府這邊就沒辦法協助，那麼就會有慈善單位召集一些人來協助，我是覺得社會救助法已經幾十年沒有調整過，應該要好好討論，該調整的就要調整，也讓需要被照顧的人真的能夠得到政府的照顧，這是最重要的。"],["邱部長泰源：我們新的修法方向有四大主軸，其中第一個主軸就是擴大照顧、扶助弱勢，所以我們會再檢討認定的標準，尤其是增訂長期失業者等就業不利者多元折算機制，包括剛剛委員所垂詢的，都會在我們這個重要的第一個主軸裡來討論。"],["黃委員秀芳：好，我希望政府的角色應該要充分扮演，而不是有時候就交給地方慈善單位，我覺得這也不應該，在第一線上，政府就應該予以協助，如果確實沒辦法，再找慈善單位大家來協助，我覺得最重要的是政府一定要持續關心，才不會有一些憾事發生，好不好？"],["邱部長泰源：好，我們政府有責任把這件事情做好。"],["黃委員秀芳：好，謝謝。"],["邱部長泰源：謝謝委員，謝謝。"],["主席：好，謝謝黃委員，謝謝部長、次長。","接下來請范雲委員來做詢答。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":262,"meet_id":"委員會-11-3-26-19","speakers":["劉建國","范雲","林月琴","楊瓊瓔","陳昭姿","王育敏","陳菁徽","林淑芬","涂權吉","王正旭","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","黃國昌","張雅琳","盧縣一","黃秀芳","楊曜","林楚茵","廖偉翔","蘇清泉","陳瑩"],"page_start":171,"meetingDate":["2025-07-07"],"gazette_id":"1146604","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1146604_00007"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第19次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"審查一、委員楊曜等17人擬具「社會救助法第十六條條文修正草案」案；二、委員范雲等17人擬\n具「社會救助法部分條文修正草案」案；三、委員謝衣鳯等16人擬具「社會救助法部分條文修正\n草案」案；四、委員黃秀芳等20人擬具「社會救助法第二條、第四條及第十四條條文修正草案」\n案；五、委員翁曉玲等18人擬具「社會救助法第十一條條文修正草案」案；六、委員黃捷等16人\n擬具「社會救助法第十六條條文修正草案」案；七、委員蔡其昌等 17 人擬具「社會救助法第四\n條、第四條之一及第五條條文修正草案」案；八、委員徐富癸等17人擬具「社會救助法第十一條\n條文修正草案」案；九、委員王鴻薇等26人擬具「社會救助法第十五條及第十五條之一條文修正\n草案」案；十、委員邱若華等20人擬具「社會救助法部分條文修正草案」案；十一、台灣民眾黨\n黨團擬具「社會救助法第十一條條文修正草案」案；十二、委員伍麗華 Saidhai Tahovecahe 等\n18人擬具「社會救助法第五條之二、第十一條及第二十一條條文修正草案」案；十三、委員楊瓊\n瓔等21人擬具「社會救助法第十一條條文修正草案」案；十四、委員萬美玲等20人擬具「社會救\n助法第四條及第十一條條文修正草案」案；十五、委員林月琴等19人擬具「社會救助法部分條文\n修正草案」案；十六、委員楊曜等24人擬具「社會救助法第十六條條文修正草案」案；十七、委\n員馬文君等20 人擬具「社會救助法第十一條條文修正草案」案；十八、委員葉元之等 21 人擬具\n「社會救助法第十一條條文修正草案」案；十九、委員羅智強等18人擬具「社會救助法第十一條\n及第十六條條文修正草案」案；二十、委員何欣純等17人擬具「社會救助法部分條文修正草案」\n案；二十一、委員劉建國等18人擬具「社會救助法部分條文修正草案」案；二十二、委員林楚茵\n等18人擬具「社會救助法第十六條條文修正草案」案；二十三、委員羅廷瑋等16人擬具「社會救\n助法部分條文修正草案」案；二十四、委員邱若華等17人擬具「社會救助法第十一條條文修正草\n案」案；二十五、委員陳亭妃等16人擬具「社會救助法第二十四條條文修正草案」案；二十六、\n委員吳沛憶等16 人擬具「社會救助法部分條文修正草案」案；二十七、委員邱鎮軍等 24 人擬具\n「社會救助法第五條之二條文修正草案」案；二十八、委員游顥等17人擬具「社會救助法第五條\n之一及第五條之二條文修正草案」案；二十九、委員翁曉玲等16人擬具「社會救助法第五條之二\n條文修正草案」案；三十、委員馬文君等16 人擬具「社會救助法第五條之二條文修正草案」案\n【僅詢答】","agenda_id":"1146604_00020"}}}