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\"檢察官起訴並不表示他就有罪因為他是無罪推定直到法官判決有罪這個時候他無罪推定才消失請問一下當年如果他被判決無罪那不是符合無罪推定嗎因為他本來就是推定無罪\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"檢\"}, {\"word\": \"察\", \"start\": 532.851, \"end\": 532.992, \"score\": 0.857}, {\"word\": \"官\", \"start\": 532.992, \"end\": 533.693, \"score\": 0.972}, {\"word\": \"起\", \"start\": 533.693, \"end\": 534.814, \"score\": 0.95}, {\"word\": \"訴\"}, {\"word\": \"並\"}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 534.814, \"end\": 534.974, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"表\", \"start\": 534.974, \"end\": 535.215, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"示\", \"start\": 535.215, \"end\": 535.895, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"他\", \"start\": 535.895, \"end\": 536.036, \"score\": 0.979}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 536.036, \"end\": 536.176, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 536.176, \"end\": 536.336, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"罪\", \"start\": 536.336, \"end\": 536.757, \"score\": 0.968}, {\"word\": \"因\", \"start\": 536.757, \"end\": 536.917, \"score\": 0.874}, {\"word\": \"為\"}, {\"word\": 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\"那當年請問你在沒有證據的狀況之下起訴這五位軍官的理由是什麼是因為收到上級的指示必須要指這個還是沒有任何的證據當然不是那時候我去力挺的時候我們已經從瑞士拿回來將近一萬頁的銀行資料的證據換句話說我們已經確定這個案子確實法方付了五億兩千萬的\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 550.535, \"end\": 550.915, \"score\": 0.877}, {\"word\": \"當\"}, {\"word\": \"年\", \"start\": 550.915, \"end\": 551.155, \"score\": 0.901}, {\"word\": \"請\"}, {\"word\": \"問\"}, {\"word\": \"你\", \"start\": 551.155, \"end\": 551.315, \"score\": 0.874}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 551.315, \"end\": 551.776, \"score\": 0.877}, {\"word\": \"沒\", \"start\": 551.776, \"end\": 551.896, \"score\": 0.687}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 551.896, \"end\": 552.656, \"score\": 0.874}, {\"word\": \"證\"}, {\"word\": \"據\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 552.656, \"end\": 553.096, \"score\": 0.908}, {\"word\": \"狀\"}, {\"word\": \"況\"}, {\"word\": \"之\", \"start\": 553.096, \"end\": 553.256, \"score\": 0.867}, {\"word\": \"下\", \"start\": 553.256, \"end\": 553.896, \"score\": 0.979}, {\"word\": \"起\", \"start\": 553.896, \"end\": 555.237, 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\"start\": 763.096, \"end\": 763.336, \"score\": 0.858}, {\"word\": \"移\", \"start\": 763.336, \"end\": 763.456, \"score\": 0.856}, {\"word\": \"送\", \"start\": 763.456, \"end\": 763.656, \"score\": 0.892}, {\"word\": \"法\", \"start\": 763.656, \"end\": 763.676, \"score\": 0.928}, {\"word\": \"辦\"}, {\"word\": \"檢\"}, {\"word\": \"方\", \"start\": 763.676, \"end\": 763.876, \"score\": 0.781}, {\"word\": \"後\", \"start\": 763.876, \"end\": 764.497, \"score\": 0.82}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 764.497, \"end\": 764.517, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"1\"}, {\"word\": \"5\"}, {\"word\": \"萬\"}, {\"word\": \"元\", \"start\": 764.517, \"end\": 764.637, \"score\": 0.833}, {\"word\": \"交\", \"start\": 764.637, \"end\": 764.777, \"score\": 0.849}, {\"word\": \"保\", \"start\": 764.777, \"end\": 764.797, \"score\": 0.0}]}, {\"start\": 767.498, \"end\": 792.629, \"text\": \"交保的理由是沒有串供的問題可是理性嫌犯主導王家去地下這個錢莊高利貸 借高利貸明明還有眾多嫌犯這樣會到案 怎麼會沒有串供他交保後還在網路發文幫自己叫屈這是五條人命耶 結果15萬交保而土城家暴的謝姓男子當街殺害妻子小姨子現在因為涉嫌違反這個家暴保護例如說他太太報警\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"交\", \"start\": 767.498, \"end\": 767.738, \"score\": 0.804}, {\"word\": \"保\", \"start\": 767.738, \"end\": 767.878, \"score\": 0.709}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 767.878, \"end\": 767.978, \"score\": 0.812}, {\"word\": \"理\", \"start\": 767.978, \"end\": 768.078, \"score\": 0.834}, {\"word\": \"由\", \"start\": 768.078, \"end\": 768.318, \"score\": 0.883}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 768.318, \"end\": 768.538, \"score\": 0.808}, {\"word\": \"沒\", \"start\": 768.538, \"end\": 768.639, \"score\": 0.753}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 768.639, \"end\": 768.779, \"score\": 0.682}, {\"word\": \"串\", \"start\": 768.779, \"end\": 768.999, \"score\": 0.833}, {\"word\": \"供\", \"start\": 768.999, \"end\": 769.159, \"score\": 0.836}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 769.159, \"end\": 769.979, \"score\": 0.843}, {\"word\": \"問\"}, {\"word\": \"題\"}, {\"word\": \"可\", \"start\": 769.979, \"end\": 770.099, \"score\": 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\"利\", \"start\": 773.901, \"end\": 774.381, \"score\": 0.771}, {\"word\": \"貸\"}, {\"word\": \"借\", \"start\": 774.381, \"end\": 774.541, \"score\": 0.884}, {\"word\": \"高\", \"start\": 774.541, \"end\": 774.701, \"score\": 0.839}, {\"word\": \"利\", \"start\": 774.701, \"end\": 775.241, \"score\": 0.688}, {\"word\": \"貸\"}, {\"word\": \"明\", \"start\": 775.241, \"end\": 775.381, \"score\": 0.871}, {\"word\": \"明\", \"start\": 775.381, \"end\": 775.661, \"score\": 0.641}, {\"word\": \"還\"}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 775.661, \"end\": 776.062, \"score\": 0.874}, {\"word\": \"眾\"}, {\"word\": \"多\", \"start\": 776.062, \"end\": 776.342, \"score\": 0.97}, {\"word\": \"嫌\", \"start\": 776.342, \"end\": 776.642, \"score\": 0.871}, {\"word\": \"犯\", \"start\": 776.642, \"end\": 777.182, \"score\": 0.788}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"樣\"}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"到\", \"start\": 777.182, \"end\": 777.322, \"score\": 0.797}, {\"word\": \"案\", \"start\": 777.322, \"end\": 777.562, \"score\": 0.964}, {\"word\": \"怎\", \"start\": 777.562, \"end\": 777.882, \"score\": 0.557}, {\"word\": \"麼\"}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"沒\", \"start\": 777.882, \"end\": 777.982, \"score\": 0.707}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 777.982, \"end\": 778.123, \"score\": 0.536}, {\"word\": \"串\", \"start\": 778.123, \"end\": 778.403, \"score\": 0.715}, {\"word\": \"供\", \"start\": 778.403, \"end\": 778.823, \"score\": 0.764}, {\"word\": \"他\", \"start\": 778.823, \"end\": 778.963, \"score\": 0.579}, {\"word\": \"交\", \"start\": 778.963, \"end\": 779.163, \"score\": 0.741}, {\"word\": \"保\", \"start\": 779.163, \"end\": 779.343, \"score\": 0.656}, {\"word\": \"後\", \"start\": 779.343, \"end\": 779.703, \"score\": 0.677}, {\"word\": \"還\"}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 779.703, \"end\": 780.123, \"score\": 0.751}, {\"word\": \"網\"}, {\"word\": \"路\", \"start\": 780.123, \"end\": 780.483, \"score\": 0.82}, {\"word\": \"發\"}, {\"word\": \"文\", \"start\": 780.483, \"end\": 780.864, \"score\": 0.851}, {\"word\": \"幫\"}, {\"word\": \"自\", \"start\": 780.864, \"end\": 780.964, \"score\": 0.886}, {\"word\": \"己\", \"start\": 780.964, \"end\": 781.064, \"score\": 0.876}, {\"word\": \"叫\", \"start\": 781.064, \"end\": 781.424, \"score\": 0.973}, {\"word\": \"屈\", \"start\": 781.424, \"end\": 782.004, \"score\": 0.854}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 782.004, \"end\": 782.184, \"score\": 0.871}, {\"word\": \"五\", \"start\": 782.184, \"end\": 782.764, \"score\": 0.77}, {\"word\": \"條\"}, {\"word\": \"人\", \"start\": 782.764, \"end\": 782.965, \"score\": 0.901}, {\"word\": \"命\", \"start\": 782.965, \"end\": 783.165, \"score\": 0.952}, {\"word\": \"耶\", \"start\": 783.165, \"end\": 783.725, \"score\": 0.81}, {\"word\": \"結\"}, {\"word\": \"果\", \"start\": 783.725, \"end\": 784.325, \"score\": 0.795}, {\"word\": \"1\"}, {\"word\": \"5\"}, {\"word\": \"萬\"}, {\"word\": \"交\", \"start\": 784.325, \"end\": 784.545, \"score\": 0.749}, {\"word\": \"保\", \"start\": 784.545, \"end\": 785.125, \"score\": 0.825}, {\"word\": \"而\", \"start\": 785.125, \"end\": 785.306, \"score\": 0.882}, {\"word\": \"土\", \"start\": 785.306, \"end\": 785.486, \"score\": 0.692}, {\"word\": \"城\", \"start\": 785.486, \"end\": 785.686, \"score\": 0.766}, {\"word\": \"家\", \"start\": 785.686, \"end\": 785.886, \"score\": 0.854}, {\"word\": \"暴\", \"start\": 785.886, \"end\": 786.046, \"score\": 0.684}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 786.046, \"end\": 786.446, \"score\": 0.892}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"姓\", \"start\": 786.446, \"end\": 786.606, \"score\": 0.858}, {\"word\": \"男\", \"start\": 786.606, \"end\": 786.866, \"score\": 0.808}, {\"word\": \"子\", \"start\": 786.866, \"end\": 787.326, \"score\": 0.902}, {\"word\": \"當\"}, {\"word\": \"街\", \"start\": 787.326, \"end\": 787.807, \"score\": 0.896}, {\"word\": \"殺\"}, {\"word\": \"害\", \"start\": 787.807, \"end\": 788.067, \"score\": 0.766}, {\"word\": \"妻\", \"start\": 788.067, \"end\": 788.287, \"score\": 0.859}, {\"word\": \"子\", \"start\": 788.287, \"end\": 788.827, \"score\": 0.937}, {\"word\": \"小\", \"start\": 788.827, \"end\": 789.067, \"score\": 0.8}, {\"word\": \"姨\", \"start\": 789.067, \"end\": 789.247, \"score\": 0.575}, {\"word\": \"子\", \"start\": 789.247, \"end\": 789.987, \"score\": 0.866}, {\"word\": \"現\"}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 789.987, \"end\": 790.148, \"score\": 0.676}, {\"word\": \"因\", \"start\": 790.148, \"end\": 790.348, \"score\": 0.699}, {\"word\": \"為\"}, {\"word\": \"涉\", \"start\": 790.348, \"end\": 790.548, \"score\": 0.804}, {\"word\": \"嫌\", \"start\": 790.548, \"end\": 790.988, \"score\": 0.827}, {\"word\": \"違\"}, {\"word\": \"反\", \"start\": 790.988, \"end\": 791.508, \"score\": 0.749}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"家\", \"start\": 791.508, \"end\": 791.708, \"score\": 0.732}, {\"word\": \"暴\", \"start\": 791.708, \"end\": 791.848, \"score\": 0.613}, {\"word\": \"保\", \"start\": 791.848, \"end\": 792.088, \"score\": 0.714}, {\"word\": \"護\"}, {\"word\": \"例\", \"start\": 792.088, \"end\": 792.208, \"score\": 0.723}, {\"word\": \"如\", \"start\": 792.208, \"end\": 792.328, \"score\": 0.752}, {\"word\": \"說\"}, {\"word\": \"他\", \"start\": 792.328, \"end\": 792.449, \"score\": 0.55}, {\"word\": \"太\", \"start\": 792.449, \"end\": 792.469, \"score\": 0.424}, {\"word\": \"太\", \"start\": 792.469, \"end\": 792.609, \"score\": 0.912}, {\"word\": \"報\"}, {\"word\": \"警\", \"start\": 792.609, \"end\": 792.629, \"score\": 0.0}]}, {\"start\": 793.729, \"end\": 816.16, \"text\": \"那前一天呢 他無保賜回之後隔天就殺死了他的妻子跟小姨子而且手法非常凶殘這兩個案子呢 我們可以看得出來鄭文燦的案件 交保林秉賢的交保之後 落跑通緝鍾文智交保之後 落跑通緝許多人在這個網路反映 重大的社會案件\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 793.729, \"end\": 793.909, \"score\": 0.963}, {\"word\": \"前\", \"start\": 793.909, \"end\": 794.069, \"score\": 0.982}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 794.069, \"end\": 794.249, \"score\": 0.901}, {\"word\": \"天\", \"start\": 794.249, \"end\": 794.449, \"score\": 0.984}, {\"word\": \"呢\", \"start\": 794.449, \"end\": 794.67, \"score\": 0.976}, {\"word\": \"他\", \"start\": 794.67, \"end\": 795.21, \"score\": 0.983}, {\"word\": \"無\", \"start\": 795.21, \"end\": 795.51, \"score\": 0.933}, {\"word\": \"保\", \"start\": 795.51, \"end\": 796.05, \"score\": 0.947}, {\"word\": \"賜\"}, {\"word\": \"回\", \"start\": 796.05, \"end\": 796.21, \"score\": 0.875}, {\"word\": \"之\", \"start\": 796.21, \"end\": 796.25, \"score\": 0.259}, {\"word\": \"後\", \"start\": 796.25, \"end\": 796.51, \"score\": 0.91}, {\"word\": \"隔\", \"start\": 796.51, \"end\": 796.75, \"score\": 0.889}, {\"word\": \"天\", \"start\": 796.75, \"end\": 796.971, \"score\": 0.991}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 796.971, \"end\": 797.411, \"score\": 0.953}, {\"word\": \"殺\"}, {\"word\": \"死\", \"start\": 797.411, \"end\": 797.531, \"score\": 0.972}, {\"word\": \"了\", \"start\": 797.531, \"end\": 797.671, \"score\": 0.873}, {\"word\": \"他\", \"start\": 797.671, \"end\": 797.811, \"score\": 0.903}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 797.811, \"end\": 798.131, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"妻\", \"start\": 798.131, \"end\": 798.451, \"score\": 0.956}, {\"word\": \"子\", \"start\": 798.451, \"end\": 798.591, \"score\": 0.828}, {\"word\": \"跟\", \"start\": 798.591, \"end\": 798.751, \"score\": 0.97}, {\"word\": \"小\", \"start\": 798.751, \"end\": 798.932, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"姨\", \"start\": 798.932, \"end\": 799.012, \"score\": 0.585}, {\"word\": \"子\", \"start\": 799.012, \"end\": 799.192, \"score\": 0.789}, {\"word\": \"而\", \"start\": 799.192, \"end\": 799.212, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"且\", \"start\": 799.212, \"end\": 799.412, \"score\": 0.9}, {\"word\": \"手\", \"start\": 799.412, \"end\": 799.612, \"score\": 0.975}, {\"word\": \"法\", \"start\": 799.612, \"end\": 799.772, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"非\", \"start\": 799.772, \"end\": 799.872, \"score\": 0.8}, {\"word\": \"常\", \"start\": 799.872, \"end\": 799.992, \"score\": 0.825}, {\"word\": \"凶\", 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808.736, \"end\": 809.757, \"score\": 0.958}, {\"word\": \"緝\"}, {\"word\": \"鍾\"}, {\"word\": \"文\", \"start\": 809.757, \"end\": 809.977, \"score\": 0.983}, {\"word\": \"智\", \"start\": 809.977, \"end\": 810.157, \"score\": 0.907}, {\"word\": \"交\", \"start\": 810.157, \"end\": 811.137, \"score\": 0.94}, {\"word\": \"保\", \"start\": 811.137, \"end\": 811.317, \"score\": 0.944}, {\"word\": \"之\", \"start\": 811.317, \"end\": 811.457, \"score\": 0.917}, {\"word\": \"後\", \"start\": 811.457, \"end\": 811.878, \"score\": 0.952}, {\"word\": \"落\", \"start\": 811.878, \"end\": 812.078, \"score\": 0.701}, {\"word\": \"跑\", \"start\": 812.078, \"end\": 812.298, \"score\": 0.995}, {\"word\": \"通\", \"start\": 812.298, \"end\": 813.218, \"score\": 0.973}, {\"word\": \"緝\"}, {\"word\": \"許\", \"start\": 813.218, \"end\": 813.398, \"score\": 0.887}, {\"word\": \"多\", \"start\": 813.398, \"end\": 813.578, \"score\": 0.996}, {\"word\": \"人\", \"start\": 813.578, \"end\": 813.779, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 813.779, \"end\": 814.339, \"score\": 0.841}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"網\"}, {\"word\": \"路\", \"start\": 814.339, \"end\": 814.519, \"score\": 0.975}, {\"word\": \"反\", \"start\": 814.519, \"end\": 814.659, \"score\": 0.995}, {\"word\": \"映\", \"start\": 814.659, \"end\": 815.019, \"score\": 0.891}, {\"word\": \"重\", \"start\": 815.019, \"end\": 815.219, \"score\": 0.984}, {\"word\": \"大\", \"start\": 815.219, \"end\": 815.359, \"score\": 0.996}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 815.359, \"end\": 815.479, \"score\": 0.992}, {\"word\": \"社\", \"start\": 815.479, \"end\": 815.86, \"score\": 0.936}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"案\", \"start\": 815.86, \"end\": 816.14, \"score\": 0.936}, {\"word\": \"件\", \"start\": 816.14, \"end\": 816.16, \"score\": 0.037}]}, {\"start\": 817.196, \"end\": 839.868, \"text\": \"跟親民進黨的人都可以交保那反觀來說做一個梗圖的人必須要羈押禁建疑似偽造文書的人必須要羈押禁建我們知道羈押涉及人權這個字人身自由就有高度的強制性與痛苦性所以非必要不得輕率為之可是我們現在可以看到部分的檢察官在偵判案件的時候都會以\", 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\"score\": 0.692}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 1073.319, \"end\": 1073.419, \"score\": 0.8}, {\"word\": \"申\", \"start\": 1073.419, \"end\": 1074.02, \"score\": 0.941}, {\"word\": \"請\"}, {\"word\": \"重\", \"start\": 1074.02, \"end\": 1074.28, \"score\": 0.961}, {\"word\": \"新\", \"start\": 1074.28, \"end\": 1074.3, \"score\": 0.231}, {\"word\": \"來\"}]}, {\"start\": 1075.26, \"end\": 1100.465, \"text\": \"所以在這邊如果沒有這種狀況我想您不支持廢除死刑跟80%的民意是一樣的那當然對於限判制第八號我們其實是非常的遺憾因為等同是實質廢死那未來呢我想尊重大多數的民意尊重八成的民意應該是您作為如果您將來作為司法院長應該要做的事情那另外還有就是針對賴清德總統的實獎賴總統第三獎談到的憲政\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"所\", \"start\": 1075.26, \"end\": 1075.42, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 1075.42, \"end\": 1075.86, \"score\": 0.991}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 1075.86, \"end\": 1076.48, \"score\": 0.885}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"邊\"}, {\"word\": \"如\", \"start\": 1076.48, \"end\": 1076.62, \"score\": 0.996}, {\"word\": \"果\", \"start\": 1076.62, \"end\": 1076.72, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"沒\", 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0.897}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 1225.528, \"end\": 1226.57, \"score\": 0.917}, {\"word\": \"詢\"}, {\"word\": \"問\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"蔡\", \"start\": 1226.57, \"end\": 1227.311, \"score\": 0.955}, {\"word\": \"備\"}, {\"word\": \"提\", \"start\": 1227.311, \"end\": 1227.451, \"score\": 0.983}, {\"word\": \"名\", \"start\": 1227.451, \"end\": 1227.612, \"score\": 0.99}, {\"word\": \"人\", \"start\": 1227.612, \"end\": 1227.692, \"score\": 0.758}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 1227.692, \"end\": 1228.032, \"score\": 0.941}, {\"word\": \"說\"}, {\"word\": \"明\", \"start\": 1228.032, \"end\": 1228.052, \"score\": 0.48}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:00,049 --> 00:00:00,470\n麻煩請蔡備提名人\n\n2\n00:00:09,932 --> 00:00:35,801\n薛仁豪貝提米人您好我想您時任檢察官將近三十年的時間不管在一審二審的檢察官擔任主任檢察官而且借調最高檢察署多年另外也曾專長您的專長刑事司法案件的實務也多次參與最高法院的一個大法庭的言辭辯論也協助法務部進行憲法的訴訟\n\n3\n00:00:36,781 --> 00:01:00,484\n所以您熟悉司法體系的運作也擅長國際的司法交流但是因為你這次被提名的是大法官而且還要擔任司法院長所以您在3月21號的介紹提名會指出您未來的兩項工作重點一個是在推動法官跟檢察官與一段時間能夠互相交換接觸增加不同的經驗\n\n4\n00:01:01,525 --> 00:01:27,415\n第二點是在於面對五權憲法的失衡狀態涉及憲法層次的事和憲法法庭協助處理跟解決因為針對這個部分外界會質疑這會出現審檢一體的亂象所以連民進黨團的總召也都說檢察官當司法院長當然不妥而您自己也提到總統提名你也覺得不可思議\n\n5\n00:01:28,155 --> 00:01:56,109\n所以這也是外界大家的疑慮所以想請教蔡貝提名人其實我們在這個大法官釋字第392號的解釋有明確的指出針對台灣審檢分立的這個制度事實上這就是台灣審檢分立的一個憲法基石而在國際上日本戰後所制定的檢察聽法也是為了保障審判的獨立而制度上必須與法院分立互不干預\n\n6\n00:01:57,170 --> 00:02:20,405\n而在德國也根據德國基本法與刑事訴訟法的相關規定呢也就於這個審判權的刑事審判權的法院保持組織跟職能上的分離那這也是德國也是審檢分立的一個制度喔那因為蔡被庭人您沒有擔任過法官但是呢您在這個總統府庭庭的記者會提到就是說\n\n7\n00:02:20,945 --> 00:02:35,499\n在台灣法官比較靜態檢察官比較動態所以希望兩個工作未來能有一段時間互相的交換接觸增加視野但是看起來這已經違背釋之第392號所揭示的憲法原則\n\n8\n00:02:36,800 --> 00:02:56,654\n而且台灣40年來都是審檢分立不僅是憲法的保障也是國際司法的標準那這樣的言行其實已經引發社會對您可能破壞司法獨立的一個高度的疑慮是不是可以請您說明一下是的我在被提名的記者會上確實有講過類似的話\n\n9\n00:02:59,847 --> 00:03:25,174\n但是我當時的想法是只針對未來因為我知道現在法官的工作狀態我剛講的算是比較靜態但是他的工作負荷很重所以如果有機會他去做不同的工作事實上就他的工作或者是他的生活形態來講他事實上一個調整那以在台灣來講\n\n10\n00:03:26,722 --> 00:03:44,759\n檢察官轉任法官或者是法官轉任檢察官這個是實施多年的事實就是說這個有輪調制度一直以來到目前為止都還有今年大概有11位檢察官會調到法官來\n\n11\n00:03:45,740 --> 00:04:02,052\n那由法官調去當檢察官的比較少那對於外界的疑慮將對於審檢分立可能違反這樣的原則那你要怎麼來去讓這個司法獨立能夠真正的落實我想我這個說法沒有違法的疑慮因為台灣的審\n\n12\n00:04:06,256 --> 00:04:22,852\n審檢分立已經40幾年40幾年來從來沒有發生過因為檢察官調來當法官以後他就案件他就會判有罪或者是說會有特別法官去當檢察官以後他就不起訴從來沒有發生過這種情況\n\n13\n00:04:24,434 --> 00:04:39,787\n我想這應該也沒有一個要擔任司法院院長的這個被提名人提出這樣的一個主張因為您不是只是這個交流而是要互相交換就剛剛您講的吧檢審互調這樣子一個狀況那當然外界就會質疑未來\n\n14\n00:04:41,348 --> 00:05:00,366\n這個檢審分立的制度是不是會嚴重的被破壞所以其實大家都有這樣的疑慮那剛剛我想貝提名人提到這樣的方式事實上我想並不足以說明也並不足以回應外界的一個質疑所以針對這個部分您是不是可以再重新考慮一下是不是還要推動這樣一個這個檢審護調讓司法獨立變成空談呢\n\n15\n00:05:04,315 --> 00:05:27,583\n我想檢診護調這個事情我剛剛講過是事實現在也在實施中不會破壞司法獨立也不會破壞省檢分立那我如果我之前簡短講過了一些話那有造成誤會我要在這裡跟社會大眾道歉這其實是一個誤解\n\n16\n00:05:29,324 --> 00:05:43,410\n那您剛已經道歉了我想針對這個事情大概也解除了大家的疑慮那另外就是我想請教您就是說您在拉法業界的軍購弊案當中的辦案經驗\n\n17\n00:05:45,392 --> 00:06:10,673\n所以是強調因為追回不罰所得所得得到的貢獻喔但是因為這個案子喔當然我想您追回不罰所得的貢獻大家是可以肯定的但在拉法業案中呢前檢察總長盧仁發因為聽命陳水扁總統的動搖國本也要辦到底的指示喔也對當時的北檢檢察長黃世明施壓要求起訴黃世明因為不從被調職您接手後\n\n18\n00:06:11,133 --> 00:06:32,560\n立刻的這個羈押起訴了雷學明等五人而且還在辯論法庭說判無罪不符合一般的期待判有罪往船府在國外的錢才能匯回來這樣的話這樣是一個檢察官該講的話嗎這是不是已經有這個背離無罪推定的一個原則呢這有三個問題我一一回答\n\n19\n00:06:33,320 --> 00:06:49,826\n第一個問題就是起訴雷學明等案子的這個案件事實上這個案子在起訴是90年7月5號在北檢起訴那時候其實我人在板橋地檢\n\n20\n00:06:51,209 --> 00:07:17,275\n也就是說我是九十年十一月在從板橋地檢的主任檢察官調任台北地檢檢察官所以這個案件起訴的時候我其實我人不在北檢事實上是一個誤會很大的誤會所以這個是第一個如果是一個誤會的話事實上這個媒體報導多年為什麼都沒有看到您在媒體或者在這個這個上面澄清說您並沒有這樣子的一個\n\n21\n00:07:18,315 --> 00:07:46,503\n說法或狀況這個部分的話我想這個部分因為可能是一個無心之過啦因為就是有法學前輩這樣指正嘛因為他跟這個案子有一些關係所以他有一些想法再看法我覺得無可厚非但是但是為什麼您不出來說明真相呢如果您說的當時並不是你所以這個案子是跟你無關嗎不是跟我無關這個案子因為我後來調到北檢以後我就有參與\n\n22\n00:07:48,188 --> 00:08:05,866\n公訴差異力挺就是我也參加公訴活動參加公訴活動最後在辯論的時候我到底有沒有講過剛剛委員所提過的這兩句話那我不不復記憶因為這是二十幾年前的事情了這是民國九十年嘛但是從一個論告的檢察官\n\n23\n00:08:08,008 --> 00:08:26,587\n來講這兩句話我覺得並沒有什麼過分的地方這是一個檢察官的主張嘛因為這是辯論但是這已經違反了無罪推論而且當時你是針對證據不足的狀況之下起訴了這五位的軍官而後來也因為沒有辦法得到任何的證據顯示\n\n24\n00:08:27,768 --> 00:08:51,627\n這五位軍官跟他的家人是不是真的有被收到相關的匯款或是不法的利益所以最後他們是不是無罪釋放無罪推定的問題我再跟委員解釋一下就是無罪推定確實是我國刑務訴訟法的規定就是你在被告在判決有罪確定之前都是推定為無罪\n\n25\n00:08:52,851 --> 00:09:10,115\n檢察官起訴並不表示他就有罪因為他是無罪推定直到法官判決有罪這個時候他無罪推定才消失請問一下當年如果他被判決無罪那不是符合無罪推定嗎因為他本來就是推定無罪\n\n26\n00:09:10,535 --> 00:09:38,687\n那當年請問你在沒有證據的狀況之下起訴這五位軍官的理由是什麼是因為收到上級的指示必須要指這個還是沒有任何的證據當然不是那時候我去力挺的時候我們已經從瑞士拿回來將近一萬頁的銀行資料的證據換句話說我們已經確定這個案子確實法方付了五億兩千萬的\n\n27\n00:09:40,543 --> 00:09:58,983\n美金的佣金到瑞士的汪傳普以及他家人跟公司的帳戶事實上這個有付佣金那跟雷學明這五位有什麼關係當時你們邊有真正的證據那請問有什麼樣的證據嗎否則當時的秀明法官這個洪英花他也不會在這個判決書這個職次檢察官\n\n28\n00:10:01,425 --> 00:10:26,768\n表態搶攻他講這樣的話其實很重喔表態搶攻有什麼意思要跟誰搶攻就是由上面搶攻嘛所以後來這個案件事實上就是無罪那尤其是賴清德總統他在94年擔任立委的時候也公開指責雷學明等人收賄2000萬美元但雷學明等人最終獲判無罪確定證明當年的指控\n\n29\n00:10:27,389 --> 00:10:54,766\n沒有事實根據而你當為主責檢察官奉命起訴後來被證明清白的人那現在賴總統又提名擔任司法院院長是不是形同對這些被害人事實上是再補一刀尤其是針對這樣子他們當年歷經多年的纏訴然後長期的羈押甚至有人還在案件中含冤而死針對這五位受害者\n\n30\n00:10:55,646 --> 00:11:21,786\n請問你們你有任何的道歉之意嗎我想這個案件案件的事情剛剛王委員講的就是事實上很難評斷因為有些案件法官判無罪檢察官會上訴上訴以後判無罪也有可能我現在只是針對這個案子針對這個案子對這個案子我想會有公平對這個案子我覺得我不方便在這邊表示我的個人的意見\n\n31\n00:11:22,526 --> 00:11:40,414\n因為這是一個案件他是已經判決確定那就是對於當年你們沒有任何證據的之下起訴然後最後獲判無罪您是不是覺得應該對這些被害人道歉呢我覺得這邊可能不方便這樣講因為一個案子其實非常非常的特別是這個案子是國際\n\n32\n00:11:42,577 --> 00:12:03,409\n這樣子貪瀆的案件細節其實非常非常的複雜我想這個司法院的組織法第五條規定大法官需要超出黨派可以獨立行使職權不受任何的干預所以如果你連回答這個問題的勇氣都沒有的話我們未來怎麼能夠相信你能夠超出黨派獨立行使職權呢\n\n33\n00:12:04,649 --> 00:12:21,805\n我就是在請教這個案子您針對這五位最後無罪被釋放的這五位被害者您有沒有這個道歉之意嗎我尊重法院的判決\n\n34\n00:12:22,486 --> 00:12:44,797\n我尊重法院的判決因為法院已經判決無罪那我尊重法院的判決另外再請教您就是最近有發生幾起重大的社會案件但司法機關處理的模式也引發爭論讓人質疑就是保政府不保人民台中市豐原五口的命案理性嫌犯以詐欺恐嚇洗錢等罪嫌移送法辦檢方後來是15萬元交保\n\n35\n00:12:47,498 --> 00:13:12,629\n交保的理由是沒有串供的問題可是理性嫌犯主導王家去地下這個錢莊高利貸借高利貸明明還有眾多嫌犯這樣會到案怎麼會沒有串供他交保後還在網路發文幫自己叫屈這是五條人命耶結果15萬交保而土城家暴的謝姓男子當街殺害妻子小姨子現在因為涉嫌違反這個家暴保護例如說他太太報警\n\n36\n00:13:13,729 --> 00:13:36,160\n那前一天呢他無保賜回之後隔天就殺死了他的妻子跟小姨子而且手法非常凶殘這兩個案子呢我們可以看得出來鄭文燦的案件交保林秉賢的交保之後落跑通緝鍾文智交保之後落跑通緝許多人在這個網路反映重大的社會案件\n\n37\n00:13:37,196 --> 00:13:59,868\n跟親民進黨的人都可以交保那反觀來說做一個梗圖的人必須要羈押禁建疑似偽造文書的人必須要羈押禁建我們知道羈押涉及人權這個字人身自由就有高度的強制性與痛苦性所以非必要不得輕率為之可是我們現在可以看到部分的檢察官在偵判案件的時候都會以\n\n38\n00:14:00,468 --> 00:14:18,263\n羈押作為取共的主要工具跟過去的這個虛打成招事實上完全沒有兩樣所以根據2023年我們3月民間團體公布的司法信心民意調查有高達84.7的民眾認為檢察官辦案受政治力的影響\n\n39\n00:14:19,344 --> 00:14:40,882\n而您過去也因為在這個有政治氛圍下對證據不足的案件人對人起訴無辜的這個記錄而司法院院長是守護司法正義的最後一道防線如果未來總統或行政院長對您提出政治性的要求時候您是不是能夠承諾拒絕配合堅守司法獨立\n\n40\n00:14:41,823 --> 00:14:59,364\n當然我應該遵守就是維持司法堅持司法獨立但是剛剛委員我再強調一遍剛剛委員提到這個案子不是我起訴的所以不是被判無罪我沒有任何這個抱歉的意思或是相類似的評論\n\n41\n00:15:00,345 --> 00:15:29,534\n那至於委員所提到的這幾個案子我也跟委員一樣就是從報紙上得知一些相關的訊息我對這幾個案子了解非常非常有限所以我真的你都報紙上看到這樣的媒體的時候如果你是我們身為一般人民好了你看到會不會非常憤怒五條人命十五萬交保非常遺憾非常非常遺憾所以這個表示我們的在目前的這個司法檢調系統出了很大的問題\n\n42\n00:15:30,354 --> 00:15:54,133\n所以這也是大家非常憤怒的問題那另外呢還有就是要請教您的就是有關廢死的問題因為我看您在您回覆國民黨的問卷當中表示您不支持廢除死刑是嗎是的那您不支持廢除死刑那針對憲判次第八號的判決您的看法咧\n\n43\n00:15:57,480 --> 00:16:21,000\n第八號他是認為現在的死刑制度不違憲這一點我支持但是以現在是第八號等同是實質廢死了是相當困難是沒錯相當困難好我想請教一下您擔任檢察官近三十年對於這個何義廷的法官必須一致決才能判死在您的實務經驗上有沒有過這樣子的案例何義廷的法官一致決\n\n44\n00:16:26,499 --> 00:16:42,289\n一致決我自己的經驗判死刑基本上都是一致決了並不是因為有這個判決因為目前的這個宪判第八號是就是三審的法官必須要一致決才能判決嗎\n\n45\n00:16:43,109 --> 00:16:58,923\n以您近30年的這個檢察官的一個經歷有沒有過這樣子的一個例子有沒有去統計說一審二審三審全部判死刑老師講的以我當檢察官我案子是判了案件我有曾經起訴案件判死刑過所以\n\n46\n00:16:59,483 --> 00:17:16,097\n有還是沒有三審都一致覺得三審我沒有去統計因為統計還是不敢回答不是不敢回答有還是沒有呢因為就我的了解要三審一致決幾乎是難如登天啊\n\n47\n00:17:16,958 --> 00:17:32,539\n我相信也沒有一個檢察官有遇過這樣的狀況所以這樣等同是實質廢死所以我很高興聽到您說您不支持廢除死刑可是對於憲判制第八號幾乎是等同是實質廢死的這個部分未來如果您擔任司法院長您要怎麼來解決\n\n48\n00:17:34,293 --> 00:17:54,300\n我想這個案子已經判決了那憲法法庭的判決他是對人民跟機關都有拘束力的那除非有憲法訴訟法第42條這些規定的要件他可以申請人民政府機關都可以申請重新來\n\n49\n00:17:55,260 --> 00:18:20,465\n所以在這邊如果沒有這種狀況我想您不支持廢除死刑跟80%的民意是一樣的那當然對於限判制第八號我們其實是非常的遺憾因為等同是實質廢死那未來呢我想尊重大多數的民意尊重八成的民意應該是您作為如果您將來作為司法院長應該要做的事情那另外還有就是針對賴清德總統的實獎賴總統第三獎談到的憲政\n\n50\n00:18:24,926 --> 00:18:49,723\n他說五五憲草或中華民國憲法台灣並沒有派員參加而實際上的狀況我相信你很清楚台灣有沒有派員參加沒有什麼我聽不清楚剛剛的問題我說賴清德總統在第三講的時候有提到憲法的相關問題其中他提到五五憲草或者是中華民國憲法台灣並沒有派員參加\n\n51\n00:18:52,438 --> 00:19:10,633\n您知道這個台灣到底有沒有派員參加這點老實講我不了解那對政治人物的好我告訴你台灣曾經派出18名這個及審議會各縣市議員農運會工會代表等這個參加制憲會議所以這個都是有你可以看一下\n\n52\n00:19:11,334 --> 00:19:30,437\n也有當時的一個名單所以賴清德總統就是公然說謊而且在誤導國人製造對立那被提名人您對賴清德總統的這種行為有何看法我現在證據告訴你了嗎有有18個人參加那您對於賴清德總統這種造謠製造對立的行為有什麼看法\n\n53\n00:19:31,911 --> 00:19:48,684\n我沒有辦法確認說賴總統是不是明明知道說台灣有派員參加而說沒有這一點我沒有辦法確認所以賴總統他自己根本都搞不清楚狀況就提出這樣的質疑是這樣的說法嗎\n\n54\n00:19:49,584 --> 00:20:13,940\n這個我沒有辦法評論要不然最後一個總統怎麼會在他要針對這個這個什麼團結時講的時候連這個都搞不清楚就公然的這樣子的造謠製造對立所以如果你連回答這樣的勇氣都沒有的話你要怎麼擔任司法院長不是回答勇氣的問題這是我不知道他的狀況賴總統錯就是錯的他就是造謠不是說他知不知道或是他有沒有在事前了解我覺得這個應該都要非常非常\n\n55\n00:20:22,683 --> 00:20:28,052\n好謝謝謝謝徐宇辰委員的詢問謝謝蔡備提名人的說明\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n49\t470\t麻煩請蔡備提名人\n9932\t35801\t薛仁豪貝提米人您好我想您時任檢察官將近三十年的時間不管在一審二審的檢察官擔任主任檢察官而且借調最高檢察署多年另外也曾專長您的專長刑事司法案件的實務也多次參與最高法院的一個大法庭的言辭辯論也協助法務部進行憲法的訴訟\n36781\t60484\t所以您熟悉司法體系的運作也擅長國際的司法交流但是因為你這次被提名的是大法官而且還要擔任司法院長所以您在3月21號的介紹提名會指出您未來的兩項工作重點一個是在推動法官跟檢察官與一段時間能夠互相交換接觸增加不同的經驗\n61525\t87415\t第二點是在於面對五權憲法的失衡狀態涉及憲法層次的事和憲法法庭協助處理跟解決因為針對這個部分外界會質疑這會出現審檢一體的亂象所以連民進黨團的總召也都說檢察官當司法院長當然不妥而您自己也提到總統提名你也覺得不可思議\n88155\t116109\t所以這也是外界大家的疑慮所以想請教蔡貝提名人其實我們在這個大法官釋字第392號的解釋有明確的指出針對台灣審檢分立的這個制度事實上這就是台灣審檢分立的一個憲法基石而在國際上日本戰後所制定的檢察聽法也是為了保障審判的獨立而制度上必須與法院分立 互不干預\n117170\t140405\t而在德國也根據德國基本法與刑事訴訟法的相關規定呢也就於這個審判權的刑事審判權的法院保持組織跟職能上的分離那這也是德國也是審檢分立的一個制度喔那因為蔡被庭人您沒有擔任過法官但是呢您在這個總統府庭庭的記者會提到就是說\n140945\t155499\t在台灣法官比較靜態檢察官比較動態所以希望兩個工作未來能有一段時間互相的交換接觸增加視野但是看起來這已經違背釋之第392號所揭示的憲法原則\n156800\t176654\t而且台灣40年來都是審檢分立不僅是憲法的保障也是國際司法的標準那這樣的言行其實已經引發社會對您可能破壞司法獨立的一個高度的疑慮是不是可以請您說明一下是的我在被提名的記者會上確實有講過類似的話\n179847\t205174\t但是我當時的想法是只針對未來因為我知道現在法官的工作狀態我剛講的算是比較靜態但是他的工作負荷很重所以如果有機會他去做不同的工作事實上就他的工作或者是他的生活形態來講他事實上一個調整那以在台灣來講\n206722\t224759\t檢察官轉任法官或者是法官轉任檢察官這個是實施多年的事實就是說這個有輪調制度一直以來到目前為止都還有今年大概有11位檢察官會調到法官來\n225740\t242052\t那由法官調去當檢察官的比較少那對於外界的疑慮將對於審檢分立可能違反這樣的原則那你要怎麼來去讓這個司法獨立能夠真正的落實我想我這個說法沒有違法的疑慮因為台灣的審\n246256\t262852\t審檢分立已經40幾年40幾年來從來沒有發生過因為檢察官調來當法官以後他就案件他就會判有罪或者是說會有特別法官去當檢察官以後他就不起訴從來沒有發生過這種情況\n264434\t279787\t我想這應該也沒有一個要擔任司法院院長的這個被提名人提出這樣的一個主張因為您不是只是這個交流而是要互相交換就剛剛您講的吧檢審互調這樣子一個狀況那當然外界就會質疑未來\n281348\t300366\t這個檢審分立的制度是不是會嚴重的被破壞所以其實大家都有這樣的疑慮那剛剛我想貝提名人提到這樣的方式事實上我想並不足以說明也並不足以回應外界的一個質疑所以針對這個部分您是不是可以再重新考慮一下是不是還要推動這樣一個這個檢審護調讓司法獨立變成空談呢\n304315\t327583\t我想檢診護調這個事情我剛剛講過是事實現在也在實施中不會破壞司法獨立也不會破壞省檢分立那我如果我之前簡短講過了一些話那有造成誤會我要在這裡跟社會大眾道歉這其實是一個誤解\n329324\t343410\t那您剛已經道歉了我想針對這個事情大概也解除了大家的疑慮那另外就是我想請教您就是說您在拉法業界的軍購弊案當中的辦案經驗\n345392\t370673\t所以是強調因為追回不罰所得所得得到的貢獻喔但是因為這個案子喔當然我想您追回不罰所得的貢獻大家是可以肯定的但在拉法業案中呢前檢察總長盧仁發因為聽命陳水扁總統的動搖國本也要辦到底的指示喔也對當時的北檢檢察長黃世明施壓要求起訴黃世明因為不從被調職您接手後\n371133\t392560\t立刻的這個羈押起訴了雷學明等五人而且還在辯論法庭說判無罪不符合一般的期待判有罪往船府在國外的錢才能匯回來這樣的話這樣是一個檢察官該講的話嗎這是不是已經有這個背離無罪推定的一個原則呢這有三個問題我一一回答\n393320\t409826\t第一個問題就是起訴雷學明等案子的這個案件事實上這個案子在起訴是90年7月5號在北檢起訴那時候其實我人在板橋地檢\n411209\t437275\t也就是說我是九十年十一月在從板橋地檢的主任檢察官調任台北地檢檢察官所以這個案件起訴的時候我其實我人不在北檢事實上是一個誤會很大的誤會所以這個是第一個如果是一個誤會的話事實上這個媒體報導多年為什麼都沒有看到您在媒體或者在這個這個上面澄清說您並沒有這樣子的一個\n438315\t466503\t說法或狀況這個部分的話我想這個部分因為可能是一個無心之過啦因為就是有法學前輩這樣指正嘛因為他跟這個案子有一些關係所以他有一些想法再看法我覺得無可厚非但是但是為什麼您不出來說明真相呢如果您說的當時並不是你所以這個案子是跟你無關嗎不是跟我無關這個案子因為我後來調到北檢以後我就有參與\n468188\t485866\t公訴 差異力挺就是我也參加公訴活動參加公訴活動最後在辯論的時候我到底有沒有講過剛剛委員所提過的這兩句話那我不不復記憶因為這是二十幾年前的事情了這是民國九十年嘛但是從一個論告的檢察官\n488008\t506587\t來講這兩句話我覺得並沒有什麼過分的地方這是一個檢察官的主張嘛因為這是辯論但是這已經違反了無罪推論而且當時你是針對證據不足的狀況之下起訴了這五位的軍官而後來也因為沒有辦法得到任何的證據顯示\n507768\t531627\t這五位軍官跟他的家人是不是真的有被收到相關的匯款或是不法的利益所以最後他們是不是無罪釋放無罪推定的問題我再跟委員解釋一下就是無罪推定確實是我國刑務訴訟法的規定就是你在被告在判決有罪確定之前都是推定為無罪\n532851\t550115\t檢察官起訴並不表示他就有罪因為他是無罪推定直到法官判決有罪這個時候他無罪推定才消失請問一下當年如果他被判決無罪那不是符合無罪推定嗎因為他本來就是推定無罪\n550535\t578687\t那當年請問你在沒有證據的狀況之下起訴這五位軍官的理由是什麼是因為收到上級的指示必須要指這個還是沒有任何的證據當然不是那時候我去力挺的時候我們已經從瑞士拿回來將近一萬頁的銀行資料的證據換句話說我們已經確定這個案子確實法方付了五億兩千萬的\n580543\t598983\t美金的佣金到瑞士的汪傳普以及他家人跟公司的帳戶事實上這個有付佣金那跟雷學明這五位有什麼關係當時你們邊有真正的證據那請問有什麼樣的證據嗎否則當時的秀明法官這個洪英花他也不會在這個判決書這個職次檢察官\n601425\t626768\t表態搶攻他講這樣的話其實很重喔表態搶攻有什麼意思要跟誰搶攻就是由上面搶攻嘛所以後來這個案件事實上就是無罪那尤其是賴清德總統他在94年擔任立委的時候也公開指責雷學明等人收賄2000萬美元但雷學明等人最終獲判無罪確定證明當年的指控\n627389\t654766\t沒有事實根據而你當為主責檢察官奉命起訴後來被證明清白的人那現在賴總統又提名擔任司法院院長是不是形同對這些被害人事實上是再補一刀尤其是針對這樣子他們當年歷經多年的纏訴然後長期的羈押甚至有人還在案件中含冤而死針對這五位受害者\n655646\t681786\t請問你們你有任何的道歉之意嗎我想這個案件案件的事情剛剛王委員講的就是事實上很難評斷因為有些案件法官判無罪檢察官會上訴上訴以後判無罪也有可能我現在只是針對這個案子針對這個案子對這個案子我想會有公平對這個案子我覺得我不方便在這邊表示我的個人的意見\n682526\t700414\t因為這是一個案件他是已經判決確定那就是對於當年你們沒有任何證據的之下起訴然後最後獲判無罪您是不是覺得應該對這些被害人道歉呢我覺得這邊可能不方便這樣講因為一個案子其實非常非常的特別是這個案子是國際\n702577\t723409\t這樣子貪瀆的案件細節其實非常非常的複雜我想這個司法院的組織法第五條規定大法官需要超出黨派可以獨立行使職權不受任何的干預所以如果你連回答這個問題的勇氣都沒有的話我們未來怎麼能夠相信你能夠超出黨派獨立行使職權呢\n724649\t741805\t我就是在請教這個案子您針對這五位最後無罪被釋放的這五位被害者您有沒有這個道歉之意嗎我尊重法院的判決\n742486\t764797\t我尊重法院的判決因為法院已經判決無罪那我尊重法院的判決另外再請教您就是最近有發生幾起重大的社會案件但司法機關處理的模式也引發爭論讓人質疑就是保政府不保人民台中市豐原五口的命案理性嫌犯以詐欺恐嚇洗錢等罪嫌移送法辦檢方後來是15萬元交保\n767498\t792629\t交保的理由是沒有串供的問題可是理性嫌犯主導王家去地下這個錢莊高利貸 借高利貸明明還有眾多嫌犯這樣會到案 怎麼會沒有串供他交保後還在網路發文幫自己叫屈這是五條人命耶 結果15萬交保而土城家暴的謝姓男子當街殺害妻子小姨子現在因為涉嫌違反這個家暴保護例如說他太太報警\n793729\t816160\t那前一天呢 他無保賜回之後隔天就殺死了他的妻子跟小姨子而且手法非常凶殘這兩個案子呢 我們可以看得出來鄭文燦的案件 交保林秉賢的交保之後 落跑通緝鍾文智交保之後 落跑通緝許多人在這個網路反映 重大的社會案件\n817196\t839868\t跟親民進黨的人都可以交保那反觀來說做一個梗圖的人必須要羈押禁建疑似偽造文書的人必須要羈押禁建我們知道羈押涉及人權這個字人身自由就有高度的強制性與痛苦性所以非必要不得輕率為之可是我們現在可以看到部分的檢察官在偵判案件的時候都會以\n840468\t858263\t羈押作為取共的主要工具跟過去的這個虛打成招事實上完全沒有兩樣所以根據2023年我們3月民間團體公布的司法信心民意調查有高達84.7的民眾認為檢察官辦案受政治力的影響\n859344\t880882\t而您過去也因為在這個有政治氛圍下對證據不足的案件人對人起訴無辜的這個記錄而司法院院長是守護司法正義的最後一道防線如果未來總統或行政院長對您提出政治性的要求時候您是不是能夠承諾拒絕配合堅守司法獨立\n881823\t899364\t當然我應該遵守就是維持司法堅持司法獨立但是剛剛委員我再強調一遍剛剛委員提到這個案子不是我起訴的所以不是被判無罪我沒有任何這個抱歉的意思或是相類似的評論\n900345\t929534\t那至於委員所提到的這幾個案子我也跟委員一樣就是從報紙上得知一些相關的訊息我對這幾個案子了解非常非常有限所以我真的你都報紙上看到這樣的媒體的時候如果你是我們身為一般人民好了你看到會不會非常憤怒五條人命十五萬交保非常遺憾非常非常遺憾所以這個表示我們的在目前的這個司法檢調系統出了很大的問題\n930354\t954133\t所以這也是大家非常憤怒的問題那另外呢還有就是要請教您的就是有關廢死的問題因為我看您在您回覆國民黨的問卷當中表示您不支持廢除死刑是嗎是的那您不支持廢除死刑那針對憲判次第八號的判決您的看法咧\n957480\t981000\t第八號他是認為現在的死刑制度不違憲這一點我支持但是以現在是第八號等同是實質廢死了是相當困難是沒錯相當困難好我想請教一下您擔任檢察官近三十年對於這個何義廷的法官必須一致決才能判死在您的實務經驗上有沒有過這樣子的案例何義廷的法官一致決\n986499\t1002289\t一致決我自己的經驗判死刑基本上都是一致決了並不是因為有這個判決因為目前的這個宪判第八號是就是三審的法官必須要一致決才能判決嗎\n1003109\t1018923\t以您近30年的這個檢察官的一個經歷有沒有過這樣子的一個例子有沒有去統計說一審二審三審全部判死刑老師講的以我當檢察官我案子是判了案件我有曾經起訴案件判死刑過所以\n1019483\t1036097\t有還是沒有三審都一致覺得三審我沒有去統計因為統計還是不敢回答不是不敢回答有還是沒有呢因為就我的了解要三審一致決幾乎是難如登天啊\n1036958\t1052539\t我相信也沒有一個檢察官有遇過這樣的狀況所以這樣等同是實質廢死所以我很高興聽到您說您不支持廢除死刑可是對於憲判制第八號幾乎是等同是實質廢死的這個部分未來如果您擔任司法院長 您要怎麼來解決\n1054293\t1074300\t我想這個案子已經判決了那憲法法庭的判決他是對人民跟機關都有拘束力的那除非有憲法訴訟法第42條這些規定的要件他可以申請人民政府機關都可以申請重新來\n1075260\t1100465\t所以在這邊如果沒有這種狀況我想您不支持廢除死刑跟80%的民意是一樣的那當然對於限判制第八號我們其實是非常的遺憾因為等同是實質廢死那未來呢我想尊重大多數的民意尊重八成的民意應該是您作為如果您將來作為司法院長應該要做的事情那另外還有就是針對賴清德總統的實獎賴總統第三獎談到的憲政\n1104926\t1129723\t他說五五憲草或中華民國憲法台灣並沒有派員參加而實際上的狀況我相信你很清楚台灣有沒有派員參加沒有什麼我聽不清楚剛剛的問題我說賴清德總統在第三講的時候有提到憲法的相關問題其中他提到五五憲草或者是中華民國憲法台灣並沒有派員參加\n1132438\t1150633\t您知道這個台灣到底有沒有派員參加這點老實講我不了解那對政治人物的好我告訴你台灣曾經派出18名這個及審議會各縣市議員農運會工會代表等這個參加制憲會議所以這個都是有你可以看一下\n1151334\t1170437\t也有當時的一個名單所以賴清德總統就是公然說謊而且在誤導國人製造對立那被提名人您對賴清德總統的這種行為有何看法我現在證據告訴你了嗎有 有18個人參加那您對於賴清德總統這種造謠製造對立的行為有什麼看法\n1171911\t1188684\t我沒有辦法確認說賴總統是不是明明知道說台灣有派員參加而說沒有這一點我沒有辦法確認所以賴總統他自己根本都搞不清楚狀況就提出這樣的質疑是這樣的說法嗎\n1189584\t1213940\t這個我沒有辦法評論要不然最後一個總統怎麼會在他要針對這個這個什麼團結時講的時候連這個都搞不清楚就公然的這樣子的造謠製造對立所以如果你連回答這樣的勇氣都沒有的話你要怎麼擔任司法院長不是回答勇氣的問題這是我不知道他的狀況賴總統錯就是錯的他就是造謠不是說他知不知道或是他有沒有在事前了解我覺得這個應該都要非常非常\n1222683\t1228052\t好 謝謝謝謝徐宇辰委員的詢問謝謝蔡備提名人的說明\n","txt":"麻煩請蔡備提名人\n薛仁豪貝提米人您好我想您時任檢察官將近三十年的時間不管在一審二審的檢察官擔任主任檢察官而且借調最高檢察署多年另外也曾專長您的專長刑事司法案件的實務也多次參與最高法院的一個大法庭的言辭辯論也協助法務部進行憲法的訴訟\n所以您熟悉司法體系的運作也擅長國際的司法交流但是因為你這次被提名的是大法官而且還要擔任司法院長所以您在3月21號的介紹提名會指出您未來的兩項工作重點一個是在推動法官跟檢察官與一段時間能夠互相交換接觸增加不同的經驗\n第二點是在於面對五權憲法的失衡狀態涉及憲法層次的事和憲法法庭協助處理跟解決因為針對這個部分外界會質疑這會出現審檢一體的亂象所以連民進黨團的總召也都說檢察官當司法院長當然不妥而您自己也提到總統提名你也覺得不可思議\n所以這也是外界大家的疑慮所以想請教蔡貝提名人其實我們在這個大法官釋字第392號的解釋有明確的指出針對台灣審檢分立的這個制度事實上這就是台灣審檢分立的一個憲法基石而在國際上日本戰後所制定的檢察聽法也是為了保障審判的獨立而制度上必須與法院分立 互不干預\n而在德國也根據德國基本法與刑事訴訟法的相關規定呢也就於這個審判權的刑事審判權的法院保持組織跟職能上的分離那這也是德國也是審檢分立的一個制度喔那因為蔡被庭人您沒有擔任過法官但是呢您在這個總統府庭庭的記者會提到就是說\n在台灣法官比較靜態檢察官比較動態所以希望兩個工作未來能有一段時間互相的交換接觸增加視野但是看起來這已經違背釋之第392號所揭示的憲法原則\n而且台灣40年來都是審檢分立不僅是憲法的保障也是國際司法的標準那這樣的言行其實已經引發社會對您可能破壞司法獨立的一個高度的疑慮是不是可以請您說明一下是的我在被提名的記者會上確實有講過類似的話\n但是我當時的想法是只針對未來因為我知道現在法官的工作狀態我剛講的算是比較靜態但是他的工作負荷很重所以如果有機會他去做不同的工作事實上就他的工作或者是他的生活形態來講他事實上一個調整那以在台灣來講\n檢察官轉任法官或者是法官轉任檢察官這個是實施多年的事實就是說這個有輪調制度一直以來到目前為止都還有今年大概有11位檢察官會調到法官來\n那由法官調去當檢察官的比較少那對於外界的疑慮將對於審檢分立可能違反這樣的原則那你要怎麼來去讓這個司法獨立能夠真正的落實我想我這個說法沒有違法的疑慮因為台灣的審\n審檢分立已經40幾年40幾年來從來沒有發生過因為檢察官調來當法官以後他就案件他就會判有罪或者是說會有特別法官去當檢察官以後他就不起訴從來沒有發生過這種情況\n我想這應該也沒有一個要擔任司法院院長的這個被提名人提出這樣的一個主張因為您不是只是這個交流而是要互相交換就剛剛您講的吧檢審互調這樣子一個狀況那當然外界就會質疑未來\n這個檢審分立的制度是不是會嚴重的被破壞所以其實大家都有這樣的疑慮那剛剛我想貝提名人提到這樣的方式事實上我想並不足以說明也並不足以回應外界的一個質疑所以針對這個部分您是不是可以再重新考慮一下是不是還要推動這樣一個這個檢審護調讓司法獨立變成空談呢\n我想檢診護調這個事情我剛剛講過是事實現在也在實施中不會破壞司法獨立也不會破壞省檢分立那我如果我之前簡短講過了一些話那有造成誤會我要在這裡跟社會大眾道歉這其實是一個誤解\n那您剛已經道歉了我想針對這個事情大概也解除了大家的疑慮那另外就是我想請教您就是說您在拉法業界的軍購弊案當中的辦案經驗\n所以是強調因為追回不罰所得所得得到的貢獻喔但是因為這個案子喔當然我想您追回不罰所得的貢獻大家是可以肯定的但在拉法業案中呢前檢察總長盧仁發因為聽命陳水扁總統的動搖國本也要辦到底的指示喔也對當時的北檢檢察長黃世明施壓要求起訴黃世明因為不從被調職您接手後\n立刻的這個羈押起訴了雷學明等五人而且還在辯論法庭說判無罪不符合一般的期待判有罪往船府在國外的錢才能匯回來這樣的話這樣是一個檢察官該講的話嗎這是不是已經有這個背離無罪推定的一個原則呢這有三個問題我一一回答\n第一個問題就是起訴雷學明等案子的這個案件事實上這個案子在起訴是90年7月5號在北檢起訴那時候其實我人在板橋地檢\n也就是說我是九十年十一月在從板橋地檢的主任檢察官調任台北地檢檢察官所以這個案件起訴的時候我其實我人不在北檢事實上是一個誤會很大的誤會所以這個是第一個如果是一個誤會的話事實上這個媒體報導多年為什麼都沒有看到您在媒體或者在這個這個上面澄清說您並沒有這樣子的一個\n說法或狀況這個部分的話我想這個部分因為可能是一個無心之過啦因為就是有法學前輩這樣指正嘛因為他跟這個案子有一些關係所以他有一些想法再看法我覺得無可厚非但是但是為什麼您不出來說明真相呢如果您說的當時並不是你所以這個案子是跟你無關嗎不是跟我無關這個案子因為我後來調到北檢以後我就有參與\n公訴 差異力挺就是我也參加公訴活動參加公訴活動最後在辯論的時候我到底有沒有講過剛剛委員所提過的這兩句話那我不不復記憶因為這是二十幾年前的事情了這是民國九十年嘛但是從一個論告的檢察官\n來講這兩句話我覺得並沒有什麼過分的地方這是一個檢察官的主張嘛因為這是辯論但是這已經違反了無罪推論而且當時你是針對證據不足的狀況之下起訴了這五位的軍官而後來也因為沒有辦法得到任何的證據顯示\n這五位軍官跟他的家人是不是真的有被收到相關的匯款或是不法的利益所以最後他們是不是無罪釋放無罪推定的問題我再跟委員解釋一下就是無罪推定確實是我國刑務訴訟法的規定就是你在被告在判決有罪確定之前都是推定為無罪\n檢察官起訴並不表示他就有罪因為他是無罪推定直到法官判決有罪這個時候他無罪推定才消失請問一下當年如果他被判決無罪那不是符合無罪推定嗎因為他本來就是推定無罪\n那當年請問你在沒有證據的狀況之下起訴這五位軍官的理由是什麼是因為收到上級的指示必須要指這個還是沒有任何的證據當然不是那時候我去力挺的時候我們已經從瑞士拿回來將近一萬頁的銀行資料的證據換句話說我們已經確定這個案子確實法方付了五億兩千萬的\n美金的佣金到瑞士的汪傳普以及他家人跟公司的帳戶事實上這個有付佣金那跟雷學明這五位有什麼關係當時你們邊有真正的證據那請問有什麼樣的證據嗎否則當時的秀明法官這個洪英花他也不會在這個判決書這個職次檢察官\n表態搶攻他講這樣的話其實很重喔表態搶攻有什麼意思要跟誰搶攻就是由上面搶攻嘛所以後來這個案件事實上就是無罪那尤其是賴清德總統他在94年擔任立委的時候也公開指責雷學明等人收賄2000萬美元但雷學明等人最終獲判無罪確定證明當年的指控\n沒有事實根據而你當為主責檢察官奉命起訴後來被證明清白的人那現在賴總統又提名擔任司法院院長是不是形同對這些被害人事實上是再補一刀尤其是針對這樣子他們當年歷經多年的纏訴然後長期的羈押甚至有人還在案件中含冤而死針對這五位受害者\n請問你們你有任何的道歉之意嗎我想這個案件案件的事情剛剛王委員講的就是事實上很難評斷因為有些案件法官判無罪檢察官會上訴上訴以後判無罪也有可能我現在只是針對這個案子針對這個案子對這個案子我想會有公平對這個案子我覺得我不方便在這邊表示我的個人的意見\n因為這是一個案件他是已經判決確定那就是對於當年你們沒有任何證據的之下起訴然後最後獲判無罪您是不是覺得應該對這些被害人道歉呢我覺得這邊可能不方便這樣講因為一個案子其實非常非常的特別是這個案子是國際\n這樣子貪瀆的案件細節其實非常非常的複雜我想這個司法院的組織法第五條規定大法官需要超出黨派可以獨立行使職權不受任何的干預所以如果你連回答這個問題的勇氣都沒有的話我們未來怎麼能夠相信你能夠超出黨派獨立行使職權呢\n我就是在請教這個案子您針對這五位最後無罪被釋放的這五位被害者您有沒有這個道歉之意嗎我尊重法院的判決\n我尊重法院的判決因為法院已經判決無罪那我尊重法院的判決另外再請教您就是最近有發生幾起重大的社會案件但司法機關處理的模式也引發爭論讓人質疑就是保政府不保人民台中市豐原五口的命案理性嫌犯以詐欺恐嚇洗錢等罪嫌移送法辦檢方後來是15萬元交保\n交保的理由是沒有串供的問題可是理性嫌犯主導王家去地下這個錢莊高利貸 借高利貸明明還有眾多嫌犯這樣會到案 怎麼會沒有串供他交保後還在網路發文幫自己叫屈這是五條人命耶 結果15萬交保而土城家暴的謝姓男子當街殺害妻子小姨子現在因為涉嫌違反這個家暴保護例如說他太太報警\n那前一天呢 他無保賜回之後隔天就殺死了他的妻子跟小姨子而且手法非常凶殘這兩個案子呢 我們可以看得出來鄭文燦的案件 交保林秉賢的交保之後 落跑通緝鍾文智交保之後 落跑通緝許多人在這個網路反映 重大的社會案件\n跟親民進黨的人都可以交保那反觀來說做一個梗圖的人必須要羈押禁建疑似偽造文書的人必須要羈押禁建我們知道羈押涉及人權這個字人身自由就有高度的強制性與痛苦性所以非必要不得輕率為之可是我們現在可以看到部分的檢察官在偵判案件的時候都會以\n羈押作為取共的主要工具跟過去的這個虛打成招事實上完全沒有兩樣所以根據2023年我們3月民間團體公布的司法信心民意調查有高達84.7的民眾認為檢察官辦案受政治力的影響\n而您過去也因為在這個有政治氛圍下對證據不足的案件人對人起訴無辜的這個記錄而司法院院長是守護司法正義的最後一道防線如果未來總統或行政院長對您提出政治性的要求時候您是不是能夠承諾拒絕配合堅守司法獨立\n當然我應該遵守就是維持司法堅持司法獨立但是剛剛委員我再強調一遍剛剛委員提到這個案子不是我起訴的所以不是被判無罪我沒有任何這個抱歉的意思或是相類似的評論\n那至於委員所提到的這幾個案子我也跟委員一樣就是從報紙上得知一些相關的訊息我對這幾個案子了解非常非常有限所以我真的你都報紙上看到這樣的媒體的時候如果你是我們身為一般人民好了你看到會不會非常憤怒五條人命十五萬交保非常遺憾非常非常遺憾所以這個表示我們的在目前的這個司法檢調系統出了很大的問題\n所以這也是大家非常憤怒的問題那另外呢還有就是要請教您的就是有關廢死的問題因為我看您在您回覆國民黨的問卷當中表示您不支持廢除死刑是嗎是的那您不支持廢除死刑那針對憲判次第八號的判決您的看法咧\n第八號他是認為現在的死刑制度不違憲這一點我支持但是以現在是第八號等同是實質廢死了是相當困難是沒錯相當困難好我想請教一下您擔任檢察官近三十年對於這個何義廷的法官必須一致決才能判死在您的實務經驗上有沒有過這樣子的案例何義廷的法官一致決\n一致決我自己的經驗判死刑基本上都是一致決了並不是因為有這個判決因為目前的這個宪判第八號是就是三審的法官必須要一致決才能判決嗎\n以您近30年的這個檢察官的一個經歷有沒有過這樣子的一個例子有沒有去統計說一審二審三審全部判死刑老師講的以我當檢察官我案子是判了案件我有曾經起訴案件判死刑過所以\n有還是沒有三審都一致覺得三審我沒有去統計因為統計還是不敢回答不是不敢回答有還是沒有呢因為就我的了解要三審一致決幾乎是難如登天啊\n我相信也沒有一個檢察官有遇過這樣的狀況所以這樣等同是實質廢死所以我很高興聽到您說您不支持廢除死刑可是對於憲判制第八號幾乎是等同是實質廢死的這個部分未來如果您擔任司法院長 您要怎麼來解決\n我想這個案子已經判決了那憲法法庭的判決他是對人民跟機關都有拘束力的那除非有憲法訴訟法第42條這些規定的要件他可以申請人民政府機關都可以申請重新來\n所以在這邊如果沒有這種狀況我想您不支持廢除死刑跟80%的民意是一樣的那當然對於限判制第八號我們其實是非常的遺憾因為等同是實質廢死那未來呢我想尊重大多數的民意尊重八成的民意應該是您作為如果您將來作為司法院長應該要做的事情那另外還有就是針對賴清德總統的實獎賴總統第三獎談到的憲政\n他說五五憲草或中華民國憲法台灣並沒有派員參加而實際上的狀況我相信你很清楚台灣有沒有派員參加沒有什麼我聽不清楚剛剛的問題我說賴清德總統在第三講的時候有提到憲法的相關問題其中他提到五五憲草或者是中華民國憲法台灣並沒有派員參加\n您知道這個台灣到底有沒有派員參加這點老實講我不了解那對政治人物的好我告訴你台灣曾經派出18名這個及審議會各縣市議員農運會工會代表等這個參加制憲會議所以這個都是有你可以看一下\n也有當時的一個名單所以賴清德總統就是公然說謊而且在誤導國人製造對立那被提名人您對賴清德總統的這種行為有何看法我現在證據告訴你了嗎有 有18個人參加那您對於賴清德總統這種造謠製造對立的行為有什麼看法\n我沒有辦法確認說賴總統是不是明明知道說台灣有派員參加而說沒有這一點我沒有辦法確認所以賴總統他自己根本都搞不清楚狀況就提出這樣的質疑是這樣的說法嗎\n這個我沒有辦法評論要不然最後一個總統怎麼會在他要針對這個這個什麼團結時講的時候連這個都搞不清楚就公然的這樣子的造謠製造對立所以如果你連回答這樣的勇氣都沒有的話你要怎麼擔任司法院長不是回答勇氣的問題這是我不知道他的狀況賴總統錯就是錯的他就是造謠不是說他知不知道或是他有沒有在事前了解我覺得這個應該都要非常非常\n好 謝謝謝謝徐宇辰委員的詢問謝謝蔡備提名人的說明\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.049 --> 00:00.470\n麻煩請蔡備提名人\n\n00:09.932 --> 00:35.801\n薛仁豪貝提米人您好我想您時任檢察官將近三十年的時間不管在一審二審的檢察官擔任主任檢察官而且借調最高檢察署多年另外也曾專長您的專長刑事司法案件的實務也多次參與最高法院的一個大法庭的言辭辯論也協助法務部進行憲法的訴訟\n\n00:36.781 --> 01:00.484\n所以您熟悉司法體系的運作也擅長國際的司法交流但是因為你這次被提名的是大法官而且還要擔任司法院長所以您在3月21號的介紹提名會指出您未來的兩項工作重點一個是在推動法官跟檢察官與一段時間能夠互相交換接觸增加不同的經驗\n\n01:01.525 --> 01:27.415\n第二點是在於面對五權憲法的失衡狀態涉及憲法層次的事和憲法法庭協助處理跟解決因為針對這個部分外界會質疑這會出現審檢一體的亂象所以連民進黨團的總召也都說檢察官當司法院長當然不妥而您自己也提到總統提名你也覺得不可思議\n\n01:28.155 --> 01:56.109\n所以這也是外界大家的疑慮所以想請教蔡貝提名人其實我們在這個大法官釋字第392號的解釋有明確的指出針對台灣審檢分立的這個制度事實上這就是台灣審檢分立的一個憲法基石而在國際上日本戰後所制定的檢察聽法也是為了保障審判的獨立而制度上必須與法院分立互不干預\n\n01:57.170 --> 02:20.405\n而在德國也根據德國基本法與刑事訴訟法的相關規定呢也就於這個審判權的刑事審判權的法院保持組織跟職能上的分離那這也是德國也是審檢分立的一個制度喔那因為蔡被庭人您沒有擔任過法官但是呢您在這個總統府庭庭的記者會提到就是說\n\n02:20.945 --> 02:35.499\n在台灣法官比較靜態檢察官比較動態所以希望兩個工作未來能有一段時間互相的交換接觸增加視野但是看起來這已經違背釋之第392號所揭示的憲法原則\n\n02:36.800 --> 02:56.654\n而且台灣40年來都是審檢分立不僅是憲法的保障也是國際司法的標準那這樣的言行其實已經引發社會對您可能破壞司法獨立的一個高度的疑慮是不是可以請您說明一下是的我在被提名的記者會上確實有講過類似的話\n\n02:59.847 --> 03:25.174\n但是我當時的想法是只針對未來因為我知道現在法官的工作狀態我剛講的算是比較靜態但是他的工作負荷很重所以如果有機會他去做不同的工作事實上就他的工作或者是他的生活形態來講他事實上一個調整那以在台灣來講\n\n03:26.722 --> 03:44.759\n檢察官轉任法官或者是法官轉任檢察官這個是實施多年的事實就是說這個有輪調制度一直以來到目前為止都還有今年大概有11位檢察官會調到法官來\n\n03:45.740 --> 04:02.052\n那由法官調去當檢察官的比較少那對於外界的疑慮將對於審檢分立可能違反這樣的原則那你要怎麼來去讓這個司法獨立能夠真正的落實我想我這個說法沒有違法的疑慮因為台灣的審\n\n04:06.256 --> 04:22.852\n審檢分立已經40幾年40幾年來從來沒有發生過因為檢察官調來當法官以後他就案件他就會判有罪或者是說會有特別法官去當檢察官以後他就不起訴從來沒有發生過這種情況\n\n04:24.434 --> 04:39.787\n我想這應該也沒有一個要擔任司法院院長的這個被提名人提出這樣的一個主張因為您不是只是這個交流而是要互相交換就剛剛您講的吧檢審互調這樣子一個狀況那當然外界就會質疑未來\n\n04:41.348 --> 05:00.366\n這個檢審分立的制度是不是會嚴重的被破壞所以其實大家都有這樣的疑慮那剛剛我想貝提名人提到這樣的方式事實上我想並不足以說明也並不足以回應外界的一個質疑所以針對這個部分您是不是可以再重新考慮一下是不是還要推動這樣一個這個檢審護調讓司法獨立變成空談呢\n\n05:04.315 --> 05:27.583\n我想檢診護調這個事情我剛剛講過是事實現在也在實施中不會破壞司法獨立也不會破壞省檢分立那我如果我之前簡短講過了一些話那有造成誤會我要在這裡跟社會大眾道歉這其實是一個誤解\n\n05:29.324 --> 05:43.410\n那您剛已經道歉了我想針對這個事情大概也解除了大家的疑慮那另外就是我想請教您就是說您在拉法業界的軍購弊案當中的辦案經驗\n\n05:45.392 --> 06:10.673\n所以是強調因為追回不罰所得所得得到的貢獻喔但是因為這個案子喔當然我想您追回不罰所得的貢獻大家是可以肯定的但在拉法業案中呢前檢察總長盧仁發因為聽命陳水扁總統的動搖國本也要辦到底的指示喔也對當時的北檢檢察長黃世明施壓要求起訴黃世明因為不從被調職您接手後\n\n06:11.133 --> 06:32.560\n立刻的這個羈押起訴了雷學明等五人而且還在辯論法庭說判無罪不符合一般的期待判有罪往船府在國外的錢才能匯回來這樣的話這樣是一個檢察官該講的話嗎這是不是已經有這個背離無罪推定的一個原則呢這有三個問題我一一回答\n\n06:33.320 --> 06:49.826\n第一個問題就是起訴雷學明等案子的這個案件事實上這個案子在起訴是90年7月5號在北檢起訴那時候其實我人在板橋地檢\n\n06:51.209 --> 07:17.275\n也就是說我是九十年十一月在從板橋地檢的主任檢察官調任台北地檢檢察官所以這個案件起訴的時候我其實我人不在北檢事實上是一個誤會很大的誤會所以這個是第一個如果是一個誤會的話事實上這個媒體報導多年為什麼都沒有看到您在媒體或者在這個這個上面澄清說您並沒有這樣子的一個\n\n07:18.315 --> 07:46.503\n說法或狀況這個部分的話我想這個部分因為可能是一個無心之過啦因為就是有法學前輩這樣指正嘛因為他跟這個案子有一些關係所以他有一些想法再看法我覺得無可厚非但是但是為什麼您不出來說明真相呢如果您說的當時並不是你所以這個案子是跟你無關嗎不是跟我無關這個案子因為我後來調到北檢以後我就有參與\n\n07:48.188 --> 08:05.866\n公訴差異力挺就是我也參加公訴活動參加公訴活動最後在辯論的時候我到底有沒有講過剛剛委員所提過的這兩句話那我不不復記憶因為這是二十幾年前的事情了這是民國九十年嘛但是從一個論告的檢察官\n\n08:08.008 --> 08:26.587\n來講這兩句話我覺得並沒有什麼過分的地方這是一個檢察官的主張嘛因為這是辯論但是這已經違反了無罪推論而且當時你是針對證據不足的狀況之下起訴了這五位的軍官而後來也因為沒有辦法得到任何的證據顯示\n\n08:27.768 --> 08:51.627\n這五位軍官跟他的家人是不是真的有被收到相關的匯款或是不法的利益所以最後他們是不是無罪釋放無罪推定的問題我再跟委員解釋一下就是無罪推定確實是我國刑務訴訟法的規定就是你在被告在判決有罪確定之前都是推定為無罪\n\n08:52.851 --> 09:10.115\n檢察官起訴並不表示他就有罪因為他是無罪推定直到法官判決有罪這個時候他無罪推定才消失請問一下當年如果他被判決無罪那不是符合無罪推定嗎因為他本來就是推定無罪\n\n09:10.535 --> 09:38.687\n那當年請問你在沒有證據的狀況之下起訴這五位軍官的理由是什麼是因為收到上級的指示必須要指這個還是沒有任何的證據當然不是那時候我去力挺的時候我們已經從瑞士拿回來將近一萬頁的銀行資料的證據換句話說我們已經確定這個案子確實法方付了五億兩千萬的\n\n09:40.543 --> 09:58.983\n美金的佣金到瑞士的汪傳普以及他家人跟公司的帳戶事實上這個有付佣金那跟雷學明這五位有什麼關係當時你們邊有真正的證據那請問有什麼樣的證據嗎否則當時的秀明法官這個洪英花他也不會在這個判決書這個職次檢察官\n\n10:01.425 --> 10:26.768\n表態搶攻他講這樣的話其實很重喔表態搶攻有什麼意思要跟誰搶攻就是由上面搶攻嘛所以後來這個案件事實上就是無罪那尤其是賴清德總統他在94年擔任立委的時候也公開指責雷學明等人收賄2000萬美元但雷學明等人最終獲判無罪確定證明當年的指控\n\n10:27.389 --> 10:54.766\n沒有事實根據而你當為主責檢察官奉命起訴後來被證明清白的人那現在賴總統又提名擔任司法院院長是不是形同對這些被害人事實上是再補一刀尤其是針對這樣子他們當年歷經多年的纏訴然後長期的羈押甚至有人還在案件中含冤而死針對這五位受害者\n\n10:55.646 --> 11:21.786\n請問你們你有任何的道歉之意嗎我想這個案件案件的事情剛剛王委員講的就是事實上很難評斷因為有些案件法官判無罪檢察官會上訴上訴以後判無罪也有可能我現在只是針對這個案子針對這個案子對這個案子我想會有公平對這個案子我覺得我不方便在這邊表示我的個人的意見\n\n11:22.526 --> 11:40.414\n因為這是一個案件他是已經判決確定那就是對於當年你們沒有任何證據的之下起訴然後最後獲判無罪您是不是覺得應該對這些被害人道歉呢我覺得這邊可能不方便這樣講因為一個案子其實非常非常的特別是這個案子是國際\n\n11:42.577 --> 12:03.409\n這樣子貪瀆的案件細節其實非常非常的複雜我想這個司法院的組織法第五條規定大法官需要超出黨派可以獨立行使職權不受任何的干預所以如果你連回答這個問題的勇氣都沒有的話我們未來怎麼能夠相信你能夠超出黨派獨立行使職權呢\n\n12:04.649 --> 12:21.805\n我就是在請教這個案子您針對這五位最後無罪被釋放的這五位被害者您有沒有這個道歉之意嗎我尊重法院的判決\n\n12:22.486 --> 12:44.797\n我尊重法院的判決因為法院已經判決無罪那我尊重法院的判決另外再請教您就是最近有發生幾起重大的社會案件但司法機關處理的模式也引發爭論讓人質疑就是保政府不保人民台中市豐原五口的命案理性嫌犯以詐欺恐嚇洗錢等罪嫌移送法辦檢方後來是15萬元交保\n\n12:47.498 --> 13:12.629\n交保的理由是沒有串供的問題可是理性嫌犯主導王家去地下這個錢莊高利貸借高利貸明明還有眾多嫌犯這樣會到案怎麼會沒有串供他交保後還在網路發文幫自己叫屈這是五條人命耶結果15萬交保而土城家暴的謝姓男子當街殺害妻子小姨子現在因為涉嫌違反這個家暴保護例如說他太太報警\n\n13:13.729 --> 13:36.160\n那前一天呢他無保賜回之後隔天就殺死了他的妻子跟小姨子而且手法非常凶殘這兩個案子呢我們可以看得出來鄭文燦的案件交保林秉賢的交保之後落跑通緝鍾文智交保之後落跑通緝許多人在這個網路反映重大的社會案件\n\n13:37.196 --> 13:59.868\n跟親民進黨的人都可以交保那反觀來說做一個梗圖的人必須要羈押禁建疑似偽造文書的人必須要羈押禁建我們知道羈押涉及人權這個字人身自由就有高度的強制性與痛苦性所以非必要不得輕率為之可是我們現在可以看到部分的檢察官在偵判案件的時候都會以\n\n14:00.468 --> 14:18.263\n羈押作為取共的主要工具跟過去的這個虛打成招事實上完全沒有兩樣所以根據2023年我們3月民間團體公布的司法信心民意調查有高達84.7的民眾認為檢察官辦案受政治力的影響\n\n14:19.344 --> 14:40.882\n而您過去也因為在這個有政治氛圍下對證據不足的案件人對人起訴無辜的這個記錄而司法院院長是守護司法正義的最後一道防線如果未來總統或行政院長對您提出政治性的要求時候您是不是能夠承諾拒絕配合堅守司法獨立\n\n14:41.823 --> 14:59.364\n當然我應該遵守就是維持司法堅持司法獨立但是剛剛委員我再強調一遍剛剛委員提到這個案子不是我起訴的所以不是被判無罪我沒有任何這個抱歉的意思或是相類似的評論\n\n15:00.345 --> 15:29.534\n那至於委員所提到的這幾個案子我也跟委員一樣就是從報紙上得知一些相關的訊息我對這幾個案子了解非常非常有限所以我真的你都報紙上看到這樣的媒體的時候如果你是我們身為一般人民好了你看到會不會非常憤怒五條人命十五萬交保非常遺憾非常非常遺憾所以這個表示我們的在目前的這個司法檢調系統出了很大的問題\n\n15:30.354 --> 15:54.133\n所以這也是大家非常憤怒的問題那另外呢還有就是要請教您的就是有關廢死的問題因為我看您在您回覆國民黨的問卷當中表示您不支持廢除死刑是嗎是的那您不支持廢除死刑那針對憲判次第八號的判決您的看法咧\n\n15:57.480 --> 16:21.000\n第八號他是認為現在的死刑制度不違憲這一點我支持但是以現在是第八號等同是實質廢死了是相當困難是沒錯相當困難好我想請教一下您擔任檢察官近三十年對於這個何義廷的法官必須一致決才能判死在您的實務經驗上有沒有過這樣子的案例何義廷的法官一致決\n\n16:26.499 --> 16:42.289\n一致決我自己的經驗判死刑基本上都是一致決了並不是因為有這個判決因為目前的這個宪判第八號是就是三審的法官必須要一致決才能判決嗎\n\n16:43.109 --> 16:58.923\n以您近30年的這個檢察官的一個經歷有沒有過這樣子的一個例子有沒有去統計說一審二審三審全部判死刑老師講的以我當檢察官我案子是判了案件我有曾經起訴案件判死刑過所以\n\n16:59.483 --> 17:16.097\n有還是沒有三審都一致覺得三審我沒有去統計因為統計還是不敢回答不是不敢回答有還是沒有呢因為就我的了解要三審一致決幾乎是難如登天啊\n\n17:16.958 --> 17:32.539\n我相信也沒有一個檢察官有遇過這樣的狀況所以這樣等同是實質廢死所以我很高興聽到您說您不支持廢除死刑可是對於憲判制第八號幾乎是等同是實質廢死的這個部分未來如果您擔任司法院長您要怎麼來解決\n\n17:34.293 --> 17:54.300\n我想這個案子已經判決了那憲法法庭的判決他是對人民跟機關都有拘束力的那除非有憲法訴訟法第42條這些規定的要件他可以申請人民政府機關都可以申請重新來\n\n17:55.260 --> 18:20.465\n所以在這邊如果沒有這種狀況我想您不支持廢除死刑跟80%的民意是一樣的那當然對於限判制第八號我們其實是非常的遺憾因為等同是實質廢死那未來呢我想尊重大多數的民意尊重八成的民意應該是您作為如果您將來作為司法院長應該要做的事情那另外還有就是針對賴清德總統的實獎賴總統第三獎談到的憲政\n\n18:24.926 --> 18:49.723\n他說五五憲草或中華民國憲法台灣並沒有派員參加而實際上的狀況我相信你很清楚台灣有沒有派員參加沒有什麼我聽不清楚剛剛的問題我說賴清德總統在第三講的時候有提到憲法的相關問題其中他提到五五憲草或者是中華民國憲法台灣並沒有派員參加\n\n18:52.438 --> 19:10.633\n您知道這個台灣到底有沒有派員參加這點老實講我不了解那對政治人物的好我告訴你台灣曾經派出18名這個及審議會各縣市議員農運會工會代表等這個參加制憲會議所以這個都是有你可以看一下\n\n19:11.334 --> 19:30.437\n也有當時的一個名單所以賴清德總統就是公然說謊而且在誤導國人製造對立那被提名人您對賴清德總統的這種行為有何看法我現在證據告訴你了嗎有有18個人參加那您對於賴清德總統這種造謠製造對立的行為有什麼看法\n\n19:31.911 --> 19:48.684\n我沒有辦法確認說賴總統是不是明明知道說台灣有派員參加而說沒有這一點我沒有辦法確認所以賴總統他自己根本都搞不清楚狀況就提出這樣的質疑是這樣的說法嗎\n\n19:49.584 --> 20:13.940\n這個我沒有辦法評論要不然最後一個總統怎麼會在他要針對這個這個什麼團結時講的時候連這個都搞不清楚就公然的這樣子的造謠製造對立所以如果你連回答這樣的勇氣都沒有的話你要怎麼擔任司法院長不是回答勇氣的問題這是我不知道他的狀況賴總統錯就是錯的他就是造謠不是說他知不知道或是他有沒有在事前了解我覺得這個應該都要非常非常\n\n20:22.683 --> 20:28.052\n好謝謝謝謝徐宇辰委員的詢問謝謝蔡備提名人的說明\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.049,"end":0.47,"text":"麻煩請蔡備提名人"},{"start":9.932,"end":35.801,"text":"薛仁豪貝提米人您好我想您時任檢察官將近三十年的時間不管在一審二審的檢察官擔任主任檢察官而且借調最高檢察署多年另外也曾專長您的專長刑事司法案件的實務也多次參與最高法院的一個大法庭的言辭辯論也協助法務部進行憲法的訴訟"},{"start":36.781,"end":60.484,"text":"所以您熟悉司法體系的運作也擅長國際的司法交流但是因為你這次被提名的是大法官而且還要擔任司法院長所以您在3月21號的介紹提名會指出您未來的兩項工作重點一個是在推動法官跟檢察官與一段時間能夠互相交換接觸增加不同的經驗"},{"start":61.525,"end":87.415,"text":"第二點是在於面對五權憲法的失衡狀態涉及憲法層次的事和憲法法庭協助處理跟解決因為針對這個部分外界會質疑這會出現審檢一體的亂象所以連民進黨團的總召也都說檢察官當司法院長當然不妥而您自己也提到總統提名你也覺得不可思議"},{"start":88.155,"end":116.109,"text":"所以這也是外界大家的疑慮所以想請教蔡貝提名人其實我們在這個大法官釋字第392號的解釋有明確的指出針對台灣審檢分立的這個制度事實上這就是台灣審檢分立的一個憲法基石而在國際上日本戰後所制定的檢察聽法也是為了保障審判的獨立而制度上必須與法院分立 互不干預"},{"start":117.17,"end":140.405,"text":"而在德國也根據德國基本法與刑事訴訟法的相關規定呢也就於這個審判權的刑事審判權的法院保持組織跟職能上的分離那這也是德國也是審檢分立的一個制度喔那因為蔡被庭人您沒有擔任過法官但是呢您在這個總統府庭庭的記者會提到就是說"},{"start":140.945,"end":155.499,"text":"在台灣法官比較靜態檢察官比較動態所以希望兩個工作未來能有一段時間互相的交換接觸增加視野但是看起來這已經違背釋之第392號所揭示的憲法原則"},{"start":156.8,"end":176.654,"text":"而且台灣40年來都是審檢分立不僅是憲法的保障也是國際司法的標準那這樣的言行其實已經引發社會對您可能破壞司法獨立的一個高度的疑慮是不是可以請您說明一下是的我在被提名的記者會上確實有講過類似的話"},{"start":179.847,"end":205.174,"text":"但是我當時的想法是只針對未來因為我知道現在法官的工作狀態我剛講的算是比較靜態但是他的工作負荷很重所以如果有機會他去做不同的工作事實上就他的工作或者是他的生活形態來講他事實上一個調整那以在台灣來講"},{"start":206.722,"end":224.759,"text":"檢察官轉任法官或者是法官轉任檢察官這個是實施多年的事實就是說這個有輪調制度一直以來到目前為止都還有今年大概有11位檢察官會調到法官來"},{"start":225.74,"end":242.052,"text":"那由法官調去當檢察官的比較少那對於外界的疑慮將對於審檢分立可能違反這樣的原則那你要怎麼來去讓這個司法獨立能夠真正的落實我想我這個說法沒有違法的疑慮因為台灣的審"},{"start":246.256,"end":262.852,"text":"審檢分立已經40幾年40幾年來從來沒有發生過因為檢察官調來當法官以後他就案件他就會判有罪或者是說會有特別法官去當檢察官以後他就不起訴從來沒有發生過這種情況"},{"start":264.434,"end":279.787,"text":"我想這應該也沒有一個要擔任司法院院長的這個被提名人提出這樣的一個主張因為您不是只是這個交流而是要互相交換就剛剛您講的吧檢審互調這樣子一個狀況那當然外界就會質疑未來"},{"start":281.348,"end":300.366,"text":"這個檢審分立的制度是不是會嚴重的被破壞所以其實大家都有這樣的疑慮那剛剛我想貝提名人提到這樣的方式事實上我想並不足以說明也並不足以回應外界的一個質疑所以針對這個部分您是不是可以再重新考慮一下是不是還要推動這樣一個這個檢審護調讓司法獨立變成空談呢"},{"start":304.315,"end":327.583,"text":"我想檢診護調這個事情我剛剛講過是事實現在也在實施中不會破壞司法獨立也不會破壞省檢分立那我如果我之前簡短講過了一些話那有造成誤會我要在這裡跟社會大眾道歉這其實是一個誤解"},{"start":329.324,"end":343.41,"text":"那您剛已經道歉了我想針對這個事情大概也解除了大家的疑慮那另外就是我想請教您就是說您在拉法業界的軍購弊案當中的辦案經驗"},{"start":345.392,"end":370.673,"text":"所以是強調因為追回不罰所得所得得到的貢獻喔但是因為這個案子喔當然我想您追回不罰所得的貢獻大家是可以肯定的但在拉法業案中呢前檢察總長盧仁發因為聽命陳水扁總統的動搖國本也要辦到底的指示喔也對當時的北檢檢察長黃世明施壓要求起訴黃世明因為不從被調職您接手後"},{"start":371.133,"end":392.56,"text":"立刻的這個羈押起訴了雷學明等五人而且還在辯論法庭說判無罪不符合一般的期待判有罪往船府在國外的錢才能匯回來這樣的話這樣是一個檢察官該講的話嗎這是不是已經有這個背離無罪推定的一個原則呢這有三個問題我一一回答"},{"start":393.32,"end":409.826,"text":"第一個問題就是起訴雷學明等案子的這個案件事實上這個案子在起訴是90年7月5號在北檢起訴那時候其實我人在板橋地檢"},{"start":411.209,"end":437.275,"text":"也就是說我是九十年十一月在從板橋地檢的主任檢察官調任台北地檢檢察官所以這個案件起訴的時候我其實我人不在北檢事實上是一個誤會很大的誤會所以這個是第一個如果是一個誤會的話事實上這個媒體報導多年為什麼都沒有看到您在媒體或者在這個這個上面澄清說您並沒有這樣子的一個"},{"start":438.315,"end":466.503,"text":"說法或狀況這個部分的話我想這個部分因為可能是一個無心之過啦因為就是有法學前輩這樣指正嘛因為他跟這個案子有一些關係所以他有一些想法再看法我覺得無可厚非但是但是為什麼您不出來說明真相呢如果您說的當時並不是你所以這個案子是跟你無關嗎不是跟我無關這個案子因為我後來調到北檢以後我就有參與"},{"start":468.188,"end":485.866,"text":"公訴 差異力挺就是我也參加公訴活動參加公訴活動最後在辯論的時候我到底有沒有講過剛剛委員所提過的這兩句話那我不不復記憶因為這是二十幾年前的事情了這是民國九十年嘛但是從一個論告的檢察官"},{"start":488.008,"end":506.587,"text":"來講這兩句話我覺得並沒有什麼過分的地方這是一個檢察官的主張嘛因為這是辯論但是這已經違反了無罪推論而且當時你是針對證據不足的狀況之下起訴了這五位的軍官而後來也因為沒有辦法得到任何的證據顯示"},{"start":507.768,"end":531.627,"text":"這五位軍官跟他的家人是不是真的有被收到相關的匯款或是不法的利益所以最後他們是不是無罪釋放無罪推定的問題我再跟委員解釋一下就是無罪推定確實是我國刑務訴訟法的規定就是你在被告在判決有罪確定之前都是推定為無罪"},{"start":532.851,"end":550.115,"text":"檢察官起訴並不表示他就有罪因為他是無罪推定直到法官判決有罪這個時候他無罪推定才消失請問一下當年如果他被判決無罪那不是符合無罪推定嗎因為他本來就是推定無罪"},{"start":550.535,"end":578.687,"text":"那當年請問你在沒有證據的狀況之下起訴這五位軍官的理由是什麼是因為收到上級的指示必須要指這個還是沒有任何的證據當然不是那時候我去力挺的時候我們已經從瑞士拿回來將近一萬頁的銀行資料的證據換句話說我們已經確定這個案子確實法方付了五億兩千萬的"},{"start":580.543,"end":598.983,"text":"美金的佣金到瑞士的汪傳普以及他家人跟公司的帳戶事實上這個有付佣金那跟雷學明這五位有什麼關係當時你們邊有真正的證據那請問有什麼樣的證據嗎否則當時的秀明法官這個洪英花他也不會在這個判決書這個職次檢察官"},{"start":601.425,"end":626.768,"text":"表態搶攻他講這樣的話其實很重喔表態搶攻有什麼意思要跟誰搶攻就是由上面搶攻嘛所以後來這個案件事實上就是無罪那尤其是賴清德總統他在94年擔任立委的時候也公開指責雷學明等人收賄2000萬美元但雷學明等人最終獲判無罪確定證明當年的指控"},{"start":627.389,"end":654.766,"text":"沒有事實根據而你當為主責檢察官奉命起訴後來被證明清白的人那現在賴總統又提名擔任司法院院長是不是形同對這些被害人事實上是再補一刀尤其是針對這樣子他們當年歷經多年的纏訴然後長期的羈押甚至有人還在案件中含冤而死針對這五位受害者"},{"start":655.646,"end":681.786,"text":"請問你們你有任何的道歉之意嗎我想這個案件案件的事情剛剛王委員講的就是事實上很難評斷因為有些案件法官判無罪檢察官會上訴上訴以後判無罪也有可能我現在只是針對這個案子針對這個案子對這個案子我想會有公平對這個案子我覺得我不方便在這邊表示我的個人的意見"},{"start":682.526,"end":700.414,"text":"因為這是一個案件他是已經判決確定那就是對於當年你們沒有任何證據的之下起訴然後最後獲判無罪您是不是覺得應該對這些被害人道歉呢我覺得這邊可能不方便這樣講因為一個案子其實非常非常的特別是這個案子是國際"},{"start":702.577,"end":723.409,"text":"這樣子貪瀆的案件細節其實非常非常的複雜我想這個司法院的組織法第五條規定大法官需要超出黨派可以獨立行使職權不受任何的干預所以如果你連回答這個問題的勇氣都沒有的話我們未來怎麼能夠相信你能夠超出黨派獨立行使職權呢"},{"start":724.649,"end":741.805,"text":"我就是在請教這個案子您針對這五位最後無罪被釋放的這五位被害者您有沒有這個道歉之意嗎我尊重法院的判決"},{"start":742.486,"end":764.797,"text":"我尊重法院的判決因為法院已經判決無罪那我尊重法院的判決另外再請教您就是最近有發生幾起重大的社會案件但司法機關處理的模式也引發爭論讓人質疑就是保政府不保人民台中市豐原五口的命案理性嫌犯以詐欺恐嚇洗錢等罪嫌移送法辦檢方後來是15萬元交保"},{"start":767.498,"end":792.629,"text":"交保的理由是沒有串供的問題可是理性嫌犯主導王家去地下這個錢莊高利貸 借高利貸明明還有眾多嫌犯這樣會到案 怎麼會沒有串供他交保後還在網路發文幫自己叫屈這是五條人命耶 結果15萬交保而土城家暴的謝姓男子當街殺害妻子小姨子現在因為涉嫌違反這個家暴保護例如說他太太報警"},{"start":793.729,"end":816.16,"text":"那前一天呢 他無保賜回之後隔天就殺死了他的妻子跟小姨子而且手法非常凶殘這兩個案子呢 我們可以看得出來鄭文燦的案件 交保林秉賢的交保之後 落跑通緝鍾文智交保之後 落跑通緝許多人在這個網路反映 重大的社會案件"},{"start":817.196,"end":839.868,"text":"跟親民進黨的人都可以交保那反觀來說做一個梗圖的人必須要羈押禁建疑似偽造文書的人必須要羈押禁建我們知道羈押涉及人權這個字人身自由就有高度的強制性與痛苦性所以非必要不得輕率為之可是我們現在可以看到部分的檢察官在偵判案件的時候都會以"},{"start":840.468,"end":858.263,"text":"羈押作為取共的主要工具跟過去的這個虛打成招事實上完全沒有兩樣所以根據2023年我們3月民間團體公布的司法信心民意調查有高達84.7的民眾認為檢察官辦案受政治力的影響"},{"start":859.344,"end":880.882,"text":"而您過去也因為在這個有政治氛圍下對證據不足的案件人對人起訴無辜的這個記錄而司法院院長是守護司法正義的最後一道防線如果未來總統或行政院長對您提出政治性的要求時候您是不是能夠承諾拒絕配合堅守司法獨立"},{"start":881.823,"end":899.364,"text":"當然我應該遵守就是維持司法堅持司法獨立但是剛剛委員我再強調一遍剛剛委員提到這個案子不是我起訴的所以不是被判無罪我沒有任何這個抱歉的意思或是相類似的評論"},{"start":900.345,"end":929.534,"text":"那至於委員所提到的這幾個案子我也跟委員一樣就是從報紙上得知一些相關的訊息我對這幾個案子了解非常非常有限所以我真的你都報紙上看到這樣的媒體的時候如果你是我們身為一般人民好了你看到會不會非常憤怒五條人命十五萬交保非常遺憾非常非常遺憾所以這個表示我們的在目前的這個司法檢調系統出了很大的問題"},{"start":930.354,"end":954.133,"text":"所以這也是大家非常憤怒的問題那另外呢還有就是要請教您的就是有關廢死的問題因為我看您在您回覆國民黨的問卷當中表示您不支持廢除死刑是嗎是的那您不支持廢除死刑那針對憲判次第八號的判決您的看法咧"},{"start":957.48,"end":981,"text":"第八號他是認為現在的死刑制度不違憲這一點我支持但是以現在是第八號等同是實質廢死了是相當困難是沒錯相當困難好我想請教一下您擔任檢察官近三十年對於這個何義廷的法官必須一致決才能判死在您的實務經驗上有沒有過這樣子的案例何義廷的法官一致決"},{"start":986.499,"end":1002.289,"text":"一致決我自己的經驗判死刑基本上都是一致決了並不是因為有這個判決因為目前的這個宪判第八號是就是三審的法官必須要一致決才能判決嗎"},{"start":1003.109,"end":1018.923,"text":"以您近30年的這個檢察官的一個經歷有沒有過這樣子的一個例子有沒有去統計說一審二審三審全部判死刑老師講的以我當檢察官我案子是判了案件我有曾經起訴案件判死刑過所以"},{"start":1019.483,"end":1036.097,"text":"有還是沒有三審都一致覺得三審我沒有去統計因為統計還是不敢回答不是不敢回答有還是沒有呢因為就我的了解要三審一致決幾乎是難如登天啊"},{"start":1036.958,"end":1052.539,"text":"我相信也沒有一個檢察官有遇過這樣的狀況所以這樣等同是實質廢死所以我很高興聽到您說您不支持廢除死刑可是對於憲判制第八號幾乎是等同是實質廢死的這個部分未來如果您擔任司法院長 您要怎麼來解決"},{"start":1054.293,"end":1074.3,"text":"我想這個案子已經判決了那憲法法庭的判決他是對人民跟機關都有拘束力的那除非有憲法訴訟法第42條這些規定的要件他可以申請人民政府機關都可以申請重新來"},{"start":1075.26,"end":1100.465,"text":"所以在這邊如果沒有這種狀況我想您不支持廢除死刑跟80%的民意是一樣的那當然對於限判制第八號我們其實是非常的遺憾因為等同是實質廢死那未來呢我想尊重大多數的民意尊重八成的民意應該是您作為如果您將來作為司法院長應該要做的事情那另外還有就是針對賴清德總統的實獎賴總統第三獎談到的憲政"},{"start":1104.926,"end":1129.723,"text":"他說五五憲草或中華民國憲法台灣並沒有派員參加而實際上的狀況我相信你很清楚台灣有沒有派員參加沒有什麼我聽不清楚剛剛的問題我說賴清德總統在第三講的時候有提到憲法的相關問題其中他提到五五憲草或者是中華民國憲法台灣並沒有派員參加"},{"start":1132.438,"end":1150.633,"text":"您知道這個台灣到底有沒有派員參加這點老實講我不了解那對政治人物的好我告訴你台灣曾經派出18名這個及審議會各縣市議員農運會工會代表等這個參加制憲會議所以這個都是有你可以看一下"},{"start":1151.334,"end":1170.437,"text":"也有當時的一個名單所以賴清德總統就是公然說謊而且在誤導國人製造對立那被提名人您對賴清德總統的這種行為有何看法我現在證據告訴你了嗎有 有18個人參加那您對於賴清德總統這種造謠製造對立的行為有什麼看法"},{"start":1171.911,"end":1188.684,"text":"我沒有辦法確認說賴總統是不是明明知道說台灣有派員參加而說沒有這一點我沒有辦法確認所以賴總統他自己根本都搞不清楚狀況就提出這樣的質疑是這樣的說法嗎"},{"start":1189.584,"end":1213.94,"text":"這個我沒有辦法評論要不然最後一個總統怎麼會在他要針對這個這個什麼團結時講的時候連這個都搞不清楚就公然的這樣子的造謠製造對立所以如果你連回答這樣的勇氣都沒有的話你要怎麼擔任司法院長不是回答勇氣的問題這是我不知道他的狀況賴總統錯就是錯的他就是造謠不是說他知不知道或是他有沒有在事前了解我覺得這個應該都要非常非常"},{"start":1222.683,"end":1228.052,"text":"好 謝謝謝謝徐宇辰委員的詢問謝謝蔡備提名人的說明"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":259,"blocks":[["許委員宇甄：（9時55分）謝謝院長，我們請蔡被提名人。"],["主席：麻煩請蔡被提名人說明。"],["蔡秋明被提名人：許委員好！"],["許委員宇甄：被提名人，你好！我想您實任檢察官將近30年的時間，也在一審、二審擔任主任檢察官，而且借調最高檢察署多年，另外，您的專長是刑事司法案件實務，也多次參與最高法院大法庭的言詞辯論，也協助法務部進行憲法訴訟，所以您熟悉司法體系運作，也擅長國際司法交流。","但是因為你這次是被提名為大法官，而且還要擔任司法院長，所以您在3月21日的被提名人介紹記者會指出您未來的兩項工作重點：一個是推動法官與檢察官於一段時間能夠互相交換、接觸，增加不同經驗；第二點是面對五權憲法機關的失衡狀態，涉及憲法層次，適合憲法法庭協助處理解決。針對這個部分，外界質疑會出現審檢一體的亂象，連民進黨黨團的總召都說，檢察官當司法院長當然不妥；您自己也提到，總統提名你，您也覺得不可思議！這也是外界大家的疑慮。","所以想請教蔡被提名人，其實大法官釋字第392號的解釋有明確指出，臺灣審檢分立的制度事實上就是臺灣審檢分立的一個憲法基石。在國際上，日本戰後所制定的檢察廳法也是為了保障審判的獨立，在制度上必須與法院分立，互不干預；在德國，根據德國基本法與刑事訴訟法的相關規定，也與行使審判權的法院保持組織及職能上的分離，德國也是審檢分立的制度。蔡被提名人沒有擔任過法官，但是您在總統府的被提名人記者會提到，在臺灣，法官比較靜態，檢察官比較動態，所以希望兩個工作未來於一段時間能夠互相交換、接觸，增加視野。看起來，這已經違背釋字第392號所揭示的憲法原則，而且臺灣40年來都是審檢分立，這不僅是憲法的保障，也是國際司法的標準，這樣的言行其實已經引發社會對您可能破壞司法獨立的高度疑慮。是不是可以請您說明一下？"],["蔡秋明被提名人：是的。我在被提名的記者會上確實有講過類似的話，但是我當時的想法是因為我知道現在法官的工作狀態，如同我剛剛講的，算是比較靜態，但是他的工作負荷很重，所以如果他有機會去做不同的工作，事實上，就他的工作或者是他的生活型態來講，是一個調整。以臺灣來講，檢察官轉任法官或者是法官轉任檢察官是實施多年的事實，就是這個有輪調制度，一直以來都有，到目前為止都還有，今年大概有11位檢察官會調到法官來，由法官調去當檢察官的比較少，往年也有……"],["許委員宇甄：對於外界的疑慮，相對於審檢分立，那可能違反這樣的原則，你要怎麼讓司法獨立能夠真正的落實？"],["蔡秋明被提名人：我想我這個說法沒有違法的疑慮，因為臺灣的審檢分立已經四十幾年，四十幾年來，從來沒有發生過檢察官調來當法官以後，就案件，他就會判有罪，或者是法官去當檢察官以後，他就特別不起訴，從來沒有發生過這種狀況，這是法律所允許的。"],["許委員宇甄：我想應該也沒有一個要擔任司法院院長的被提名人提出這樣的主張，因為不只是交流，而是要互相交換，就是剛剛您講的把檢審互調這樣的狀況，那當然外界就會質疑未來檢審分立制度是不是會嚴重的被破壞，其實大家都有這樣的疑慮。剛剛被提名人提到這樣的方式我想並不足以說明，也並不足以回應外界的質疑，所以針對這個部分您是不是可以再重新考慮一下，是不是還要推動檢審互調，讓司法獨立變成空談呢？"],["蔡秋明被提名人：我想檢審互調這個事情，我剛剛講過是事實，現在也在實施中，不會破壞司法獨立，也不會破壞審檢分立，如果我之前簡短講過了一些話，有造成誤會，我要在這裡跟社會大眾道歉，這其實是一個誤解。您剛剛所提到德國的制度來講……"],["許委員宇甄：被提名人剛剛已經道歉了，我想針對這個事情大概也解除了大家的疑慮。"],["蔡秋明被提名人：是。"],["許委員宇甄：另外，我想請教您有關您在拉法葉艦軍購弊案當中的辦案經驗，是強調「追回不法所得」的貢獻，我想這個案子對於您追回不法所得的貢獻，大家是可以肯定的，但在拉法葉案中，前檢察總長盧仁發因為聽命陳水扁總統的「動搖國本也要辦到底」的指示，也對當時的北檢檢察長黃世銘施壓要求起訴，而黃世銘因為不從被調職，您接手後立刻羈押、起訴了雷學明等5人，而且還在辯論法庭說：判無罪，不符合一般的期待，判有罪，汪傳浦在國外的錢才能匯回來。這樣的話是一個檢察官該講的話嗎？這是不是已經背離無罪推定的原則呢？"],["蔡秋明被提名人：這有三個問題，我一一回答，第一個問題就是起訴雷學明等的這個案件，事實上這個案子是90年7月5號在北檢起訴，那時候其實我人在板橋地檢，也就是說我是90年11月才從板橋地檢的主任檢察官調任臺北地檢檢察官，所以這個案件起訴的時候其實我人不在北檢，事實上是一個誤會，很大的誤會，這個是第一個，那時候我人在……"],["許委員宇甄：如果是一個誤會的話，媒體報導多年，為什麼都沒有看到您在媒體上澄清您並沒有這樣的說法或狀況？"],["蔡秋明被提名人：我想這個部分可能是一個無心之過，有法學前輩這樣指正，因為他跟這個案子有一些關係，所以他有一些想法和看法，我覺得無可厚非，但是事實上這個案子不是我起訴的……"],["許委員宇甄：但是為什麼您不出來說明真相呢？如果照您說的，當時並不是你，所以這個案子是跟你無關嗎？"],["蔡秋明被提名人：不是跟我無關，因為我後來調到北檢以後，這個案子我就有參與公訴、參與蒞庭，就是我也參加公訴活動，最後在辯論的時候我到底有沒有講過剛剛委員所提過的這兩句話，我不復記憶，因為這是二十幾年前的事情，這是民國90年。但是從一個論告的檢察官來講，講這兩句話我覺得並沒有什麼過分的地方，這是一個檢察官的主張，因為這是辯論，這是argument。"],["許委員宇甄：但是這已經違反了無罪推定……"],["蔡秋明被提名人：沒有，無罪推定的部分我來講一下……"],["許委員宇甄：而且當時你是在證據不足的狀況之下起訴了這5位軍官，而後來也因為沒有辦法得到任何的證據顯示這5位軍官跟他的家人是不是真的有收到相關的匯款或是不法的利益，所以最後他們是不是無罪？是吧？"],["蔡秋明被提名人：無罪推定的問題我再跟委員解釋一下，無罪推定確實是我國刑事訴訟法的規定，就是被告在判決有罪確定之前，都是推定為無罪。檢察官起訴並不表示他就有罪，因為是無罪推定嘛！"],["許委員宇甄：對。"],["蔡秋明被提名人：直到法官判決有罪，這個時候無罪推定才消失，如果他被判決無罪，那不是符合無罪推定嗎？因為本來就推定無罪。所以被檢察官起訴的案件，有的被判無罪，有的被判有罪……"],["許委員宇甄：請問當年你在沒有證據的狀況下起訴這5位軍官的理由是什麼？是因為收到上級的指示必須要做，還是你有任何的證據？"],["蔡秋明被提名人：當然不是！當然不是！我去蒞庭的時候，我們已經從瑞士拿回來將近1萬頁銀行資料的證據，換句話說，我們已經確定這個案子法方確實付了5億2,000萬美金的佣金到汪傳浦、其家人及公司的瑞士帳戶，事實上這個有付佣金已經有出來了……"],["許委員宇甄：那跟雷學明這5位有什麼關係？當時你們並沒有真正的證據……"],["蔡秋明被提名人：當然有關係啊！"],["許委員宇甄：請問，有什麼樣的證據嗎？"],["蔡秋明被提名人：以當時我們的判斷……"],["許委員宇甄：否則當時的受命法官洪英花也不會在判決書直斥檢察官「表態搶功」，他講這樣的話其實是很重喔！「表態搶功」是什麼意思？要跟誰搶功？就是由上面搶功嘛。"],["蔡秋明被提名人：這個我沒有評論，法官怎麼判斷、審判怎麼講，我沒有評論。"],["許委員宇甄：所以後來這個案件事實上就是無罪。尤其賴清德總統在94年擔任立委的時候，也公開指責雷學明等人收賄2,000萬美元，但雷學明等人最終獲判無罪確定，證明當年的指控沒有事實根據，而您作為主責檢察官奉命起訴，後來這些人被證明是清白的，現在賴總統又提名您擔任司法院院長，是不是形同對這些被害人再補一刀？尤其他們當年歷經多年纏訴、長期羈押，甚至有人還在案件中含冤而死，針對這5位受害者，請問您有任何的道歉之意嗎？"],["蔡秋明被提名人：我想這個案件的事情，剛剛王委員也講了一些，事實上很難評斷，因為有些案件法官判無罪，檢察官會上訴，上訴以後判有罪也有可能。"],["許委員宇甄：我現在只針對這個案子。"],["蔡秋明被提名人：對這個案子，我想會有公評。"],["許委員宇甄：針對這個案子，對這個無辜、纏訟多年的案子，您是不是要跟他們道歉？"],["蔡秋明被提名人：對這個案子，我覺得我不方便在這邊表示我個人的意見，因為這個案件已經判決確定，就是已經判決確定。"],["許委員宇甄：當年你們沒有任何證據之下起訴，最後他們獲判無罪，您覺得是不是應該對這些被害人道歉？"],["蔡秋明被提名人：我覺得這邊可能不方便這樣講，因為一個案子其實非常非常……特別是這個案子是國際貪瀆的案件、洗錢的案件，其實非常非常地複雜，不是我在這邊能夠講得清楚的。"],["許委員宇甄：被提名人，司法院組織法第五條有規定，大法官需要超出黨派，獨立行使職權，不受任何的干預，所以如果你連回答這個問題的勇氣都沒有的話，我們怎麼能夠相信您未來能夠超出黨派、獨立行使職權呢？"],["蔡秋明被提名人：這個不是勇氣的問題，這是一個對個案的理解及個案認知的問題。"],["許委員宇甄：我就是在請教這個案子。針對最後被無罪釋放的這5位被害者，您有沒有道歉之意？"],["蔡秋明被提名人：我尊重法院的判決，我尊重法院的判決。"],["許委員宇甄：好，但顯然您沒有這樣的意願嘛！"],["蔡秋明被提名人：因為法院已經判決無罪確定，我尊重法院的判決。"],["許委員宇甄：另外，再請教您，最近發生幾起重大的社會案件，但司法機關處理的模式引發爭論，讓人質疑是不是保政府、不保人民。臺中市豐原5口命案，李姓嫌犯以詐欺、恐嚇、洗錢等罪嫌移送法辦，檢方後來裁定以15萬元交保，交保的理由是沒有串供的問題；可是李姓嫌犯主導王家去地下錢莊借高利貸，明明還有眾多嫌犯尚未到案，怎麼會沒有串供之虞？他交保後還在網路發文幫自己叫屈。這是5條人命，結果15萬交保！而土城家暴的謝姓男子當街殺害妻子及小姨子一案，之前他因涉嫌違反家暴保護令，遭妻子報警，前一天他無保飭回之後，隔天就殺死了妻子及小姨子，而且手法非常兇殘。","從這兩個案子可以看得出來，鄭文燦的案件交保，林秉文交保之後落跑通緝，鍾文智交保之後落跑通緝，許多人在網路反映，重大的社會案件、親民進黨的人都可以交保；反觀來看，做哏圖的人卻必須被羈押禁見，疑似偽造文書的人必須被羈押禁見。我們知道，羈押涉及人權、人身自由，具有高度的強制性與痛苦性，所以非必要不得輕率為之，可是我們現在可以看到部分的檢察官在偵辦案件的時候，都會以羈押作為取供的主要工具，跟過去的屈打成招事實上完全沒有兩樣。","根據2023年3月民間團體公布的司法信心民意調查，有高達84.7%的民眾認為檢察官辦案受政治力影響。您過去也有在政治氛圍下針對證據不足的案件仍起訴無辜者的紀錄，而司法院院長是守護司法正義的最後一道防線，如果未來總統或行政院長對您提出政治性要求的時候，您是不是能夠承諾拒絕配合而堅守司法獨立？請回答。"],["蔡秋明被提名人：當然，我當然應該維持司法、堅持司法獨立，但是我要再強調一遍，剛剛委員提到的這個案子不是我起訴的，所以不是被判無罪我沒有任何道歉的意思或是相類似的評論。至於委員所提到的這幾個案子，我也跟委員一樣是從報紙上得知一些相關的訊息，我對這幾個案子的了解非常非常有限，所以我真的也是不適合評論。"],["許委員宇甄：你從報紙上看到這樣的報導時，我們身為一般的人民，你會不會非常憤怒？5條人命、15萬交保！"],["蔡秋明被提名人：是，非常遺憾，非常非常遺憾。"],["許委員宇甄：所以這個表示目前的司法檢調系統出了很大的問題，這也是令大家非常憤怒的問題。另外，我還要請教您的就是有關廢死的問題，因為我看您在回復國民黨的問卷當中表示，您不支持廢除死刑，是嗎？"],["蔡秋明被提名人：是的。"],["許委員宇甄：您不支持廢除死刑，那您針對憲判字第8號判決的看法是什麼？"],["蔡秋明被提名人：第8號憲判是認為現在的死刑制度不違憲，我支持這一點。"],["許委員宇甄：但是憲判字第8號等同是實質廢死了。"],["蔡秋明被提名人：沒錯，是相當困難，這一點我也有一點意見。"],["許委員宇甄：你說相當困難，我想請教一下，您擔任檢察官近30年，對於合議庭的法官必須一致決才能判死，在您的實務經驗上有沒有過這樣子的案例？"],["蔡秋明被提名人：以我自己的經驗，判死刑基本上都是一致決，並不是因為有這個判決，因為大概……"],["許委員宇甄：憲判字第8號是合議庭就是三審的法官必須要一致決才能判決，依您近30年的檢察官經歷，有沒有過這樣子的例子？"],["蔡秋明被提名人：我沒有去統計一審、二審、三審全部判死刑的案件，老實講，在我當檢察官時，曾經有我起訴的案件判死刑過。"],["許委員宇甄：所以有還是沒有？"],["蔡秋明被提名人：有這個……"],["許委員宇甄：有三審都一致決的案件？"],["蔡秋明被提名人：我沒有去統計，因為三審通常在……"],["許委員宇甄：是沒有統計還是不敢回答？"],["蔡秋明被提名人：不是不敢回答，確實以我當檢察官來講……"],["許委員宇甄：那是有還是沒有呢？"],["蔡秋明被提名人：案子在第一審判有罪以後，大概就不會再去follow了。"],["許委員宇甄：就我的了解，要三審一致決幾乎是難如登天啊！我相信也沒有一個檢察官有遇過這樣的狀況，所以這樣等同是實質廢死。我很高興聽到您說您不支持廢除死刑，可是對於憲判字第8號幾乎等同是實質廢死的這個部分，未來如果您擔任司法院院長，你要怎麼來解決？"],["蔡秋明被提名人：我想這個案子已經判決了，那憲法法庭的判決對人民跟機關都是有拘束力的，除非有憲法訴訟法第四十二條規定的這些要件，人民、政府機關都可以聲請重新來審視，如果沒有這種狀況，我想目前是沒有辦法的。"],["許委員宇甄：所以您不支持廢除死刑，這跟80%的民意是一樣的，當然我們對於憲判字第8號其實是非常的遺憾，因為等同是實質廢死，那我想未來如果您做為司法院院長，尊重大多數的民意、尊重八成的民意應該是您要做的事情。","另外，針對賴清德總統的十講，賴總統在第三講談到了憲政，他說五五憲草或中華民國憲法，臺灣並沒有派員參加，而實際上的狀況我相信您很清楚，臺灣有沒有派員參加？"],["蔡秋明被提名人：我聽不清楚委員剛剛問的問題，委員是問有沒有什麼？"],["許委員宇甄：我說賴清德總統在第三講的時候有提到憲法的相關問題，其中他提到五五憲草或者是中華民國憲法，臺灣並沒有派員參加，那您知道臺灣到底有沒有派員參加嗎？"],["蔡秋明被提名人：老實講，我不了解這一點，對於政治人物的……"],["許委員宇甄：好，我告訴你，臺灣曾經派出18名省議會、各縣市議員、農漁會、工會代表等參加制憲會議，都是有的，您可以看一下當時的名單，所以賴清德總統就是公然說謊，而且在誤導國人、製造對立。您對賴清德總統的這種行為有何看法？我現在證據告訴你了，有！有18個人參加，您對於賴清德總統這種造謠、製造對立的行為有什麼看法？"],["蔡秋明被提名人：我沒有辦法確認賴總統是不是明明知道臺灣有派員參加，而說沒有，這點我沒有辦法確認，有可能他不知道這件事情。"],["許委員宇甄：所以你的意思是賴總統自己根本都搞不清楚狀況，就提出這樣的質疑，是這樣的說法嗎？"],["蔡秋明被提名人：這個我沒有辦法回答你。"],["許委員宇甄：要不然作為一個總統，怎麼會在他要做團結十講的時候，連這個都搞不清楚，就公然造謠、製造對立？如果你連回答的勇氣都沒有的話，你要怎麼擔任司法院院長？"],["蔡秋明被提名人：這不是回答勇氣的問題，這是我不知道他的狀況，當時他對此知悉的狀況是怎麼樣……"],["許委員宇甄：當然是回答勇氣的問題啊！賴總統錯了就是錯了，他就是造謠，不是他知不知道，或是他有沒有在事前瞭解，我覺得應該都要非常非常審慎，所以我覺得蔡被提名人應該針對這個問題要好好地瞭解，甚至應該要告訴總統，他這樣錯了。"],["蔡秋明被提名人：謝謝委員。"],["主席：謝謝許宇甄委員的詢問，謝謝蔡被提名人的說明。","接下來登記第4位林岱樺委員詢問之後，我們將會休息10分鐘，之後再請王育敏委員詢問。現在請林岱樺委員詢問。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":364,"meet_id":"全院委員會-11-3-4","speakers":["韓國瑜","黃國昌","王義川","許宇甄","林岱樺","王育敏","林淑芬","賴士葆","陳亭妃","王鴻薇","張啓楷","吳思瑤","翁曉玲","林月琴","吳宗憲"],"page_start":291,"meetingDate":["2025-07-09"],"gazette_id":"1146501","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1146501_00004","1146501_00005"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期第4次全院委員會會議紀錄","content":"總統咨，為司法院大法官含院長、副院長，現有缺額7名，茲依據中華民國憲法增修條文第5條規\n定，提名蔡秋明、蘇素娥、蕭文生、鄭純惠、林麗瑩、陳慈陽、詹鎮榮7位為司法院大法官，並\n以蔡秋明為院長、蘇素娥為副院長，咨請同意案","agenda_id":"1146501_00003"}}}