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\"end\": 1029.42, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"立\", \"start\": 1029.42, \"end\": 1029.6, \"score\": 0.879}, {\"word\": \"法\", \"start\": 1029.6, \"end\": 1029.76, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"原\", \"start\": 1029.76, \"end\": 1030.02, \"score\": 0.968}, {\"word\": \"則\"}, {\"word\": \"啊\", \"start\": 1030.02, \"end\": 1030.541, \"score\": 0.925}, {\"word\": \"重\", \"start\": 1030.541, \"end\": 1030.701, \"score\": 0.985}, {\"word\": \"大\", \"start\": 1030.701, \"end\": 1030.921, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"政\", \"start\": 1030.921, \"end\": 1031.241, \"score\": 0.963}, {\"word\": \"策\", \"start\": 1031.241, \"end\": 1031.261, \"score\": 0.966}]}, {\"start\": 1031.801, \"end\": 1052.22, \"text\": \"所以針對事情的不在即投票相對爭議性會比較少但是針對人的投票爭議性相對就會比較高那因此就是除此之外為什麼全面不在即投票會引起這麼大的爭議大概也在這個地方那全面的不在即投票大概就是怎麼樣去考慮到\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"所\", \"start\": 1031.801, \"end\": 1031.981, \"score\": 0.889}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 1031.981, \"end\": 1032.422, \"score\": 0.909}, {\"word\": \"針\"}, 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\"在\", \"start\": 1046.555, \"end\": 1047.015, \"score\": 0.911}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"地\", \"start\": 1047.015, \"end\": 1047.276, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"方\", \"start\": 1047.276, \"end\": 1047.956, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 1047.956, \"end\": 1048.477, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"全\", \"start\": 1048.477, \"end\": 1048.677, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"面\", \"start\": 1048.677, \"end\": 1048.857, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 1048.857, \"end\": 1048.957, \"score\": 0.994}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 1048.957, \"end\": 1049.057, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 1049.057, \"end\": 1049.298, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"即\", \"start\": 1049.298, \"end\": 1049.438, \"score\": 0.857}, {\"word\": \"投\", \"start\": 1049.438, \"end\": 1049.658, \"score\": 0.984}, {\"word\": \"票\", \"start\": 1049.658, \"end\": 1049.938, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"大\", \"start\": 1049.938, \"end\": 1050.078, 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0.928}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:00,769 --> 00:00:22,241\n請陳樹越委員詢問謝謝院長請院長邀請大法官被提名人鄭純惠女士麻煩再請被提名人鄭法官請說明\n\n2\n00:00:40,787 --> 00:00:45,796\n政法官您知道現在社會最深惡痛絕的犯罪行為是什麼\n\n3\n00:00:47,299 --> 00:01:10,913\n應該就是這個詐騙事件吧詐騙對確實因為這個詐騙現在層出不窮然後受害的民眾非常的多那造成這個財產的損失甚至就是說這個生活上的一個壓力所以社會鄉親真的是深惡痛絕那也期待我們的政府可以拿出有效實際的作為來打詐\n\n4\n00:01:12,174 --> 00:01:28,795\n那可是我們最近就是說有看到這個有關大法庭針對就是詐騙的詐欺犯罪危害防治條例當中的有關被害自白並且繳交犯罪所得就可以獲得減刑\n\n5\n00:01:29,716 --> 00:01:59,103\n其中的犯罪所得到底是指個人獲得的報酬還是被害人全部的損失就是有關這個規定就是在今年的五月最高法院刑事大法庭有做出了裁定那這個裁定呢就是針對認為說這邊的犯罪所得指的是個人的報酬所以詐欺犯罪的被告只要自白並且繳回實際報酬就可以減刑那這個裁定做成之後啊\n\n6\n00:01:59,603 --> 00:02:28,775\n引起这个民众的议论认为说这样的裁定等于是就是将诈欺合法化了那为诈欺犯大开方便之门那甚至就我所知法务部也认为大法庭采取这样的见解已经背离立法的意旨那也就是会因此造成不当的减刑的结果本席想在这边请教政法官针对这样子大法庭的一个裁定您认为适当吗恰当吗\n\n7\n00:02:31,487 --> 00:02:46,923\n首先因為我是辦理民事審判所以對於刑事大法庭做出這樣裁定他實質考慮的因素跟最後的結果這個我是沒有辦法提出評論但是我認為大法庭最後做出來的這種\n\n8\n00:02:48,885 --> 00:03:01,926\n法律見解是可以受公平的那透過公平就是社會上去或者是學者他們去提出相關的意見那就有進一步討論的空間也可以再有修正機會\n\n9\n00:03:03,568 --> 00:03:23,515\n因為社會的公平社會的一個意見真的是認為這樣子的一個裁定是沒有辦法被接受的認為這樣子對於詐欺犯人是太輕了這部分法務部也要提出修法的一個提案\n\n10\n00:03:24,435 --> 00:03:38,568\n那當然這個就是我本席就針對這部分我有提案就是希望就是說針對這個部分我們還是要認定為是這個被害人的一個損失這樣子的話才有辦法達到\n\n11\n00:03:40,269 --> 00:04:03,617\n遏止的壓力當然再回過頭來我再請教就是說因為對於打詐真的是社會的期待也因為大家都認為說在法令上或者是說最後的審判的結果都是太輕了就是說對於詐欺犯的判決都太輕了所以沒有辦法有效的遏止\n\n12\n00:04:04,497 --> 00:04:07,178\n所以在日前豐原一家五口因為疑似詐騙案然後走上絕路這個案件發生之後可以說是引起社會各界非常大的震驚\n\n13\n00:04:19,845 --> 00:04:35,162\n所以本席在地方啊就接獲到很多鄉親真的是非常的就是非常的關心而且希望我們針對這個部分提出比較嚴厲的一個修法那甚至有鄉親主張說針對詐欺的主謀啊要\n\n14\n00:04:38,725 --> 00:05:02,208\n要求處以死刑然後針對共犯也要處以重刑針對這個部分請教政法官就是說您認為要怎樣才能夠有效來遏止詐騙這個部分怎麼樣有效遏止我想這個也是多面向就是立法行政這些各方面至於立法要提高\n\n15\n00:05:03,354 --> 00:05:27,261\n刑度這些問題我想這是屬於立法裁量的問題但是可能也是要比較各個法條之間的相關性然後就是聽聽各界的意見這樣做一個比較就是我覺得這個是屬於立法裁量的問題這個我目前也沒有深入研究我也不敢做太就是太明確的說明這樣子是好\n\n16\n00:05:30,014 --> 00:05:58,744\n回到剛剛的問題啊就是說這個大法庭是司法院就是為了要解決這個裁判的歧義統一法律的一個見解所推動建立來取代以往這個判例的一個新制度那就我剛剛舉的這個例子因為針對這個就是剛剛說的這個詐欺犯罪危害防治條例當中的這個被告自白並且繳交犯罪所得這個定義的一個裁定引起社會的一個嘩然\n\n17\n00:06:00,074 --> 00:06:19,080\n所以到底就是說最高法院的大法庭所做出的統一法律見解的裁定到底能不能做到真正的一個解決問題彌平這個爭議或者是造成更麻煩的一個實務的一個困擾所以對於這個大法庭的一個成效我們是否要進行這個通盤的一個檢討\n\n18\n00:06:21,861 --> 00:06:37,947\n關於大法庭我就從民事大法庭的運作來講也就是說大法庭制度它其實是希望統一法律解釋這件事情就是回歸到司法權的本質透過法庭裁判的方式去處理它\n\n19\n00:06:40,028 --> 00:06:57,104\n實施之後其實我們講從程序面它確實有讓當事人參與也有請專家學者來參與讓整個程序變得更公開透明那至於說程序進行之後最後做出來的多數的實體見解\n\n20\n00:06:58,485 --> 00:07:23,102\n是不是大家都沒有意見那這個就很難說那因為本來實體的見解就是可受公平那出來如果說社會或學界都有意見那就有一個討論的空間可以促使法學的再進步那至於那個剛剛委員提到說是不是應該要做定期的成效評估像國民法官那樣子\n\n21\n00:07:23,479 --> 00:07:45,155\n那這個因為是屬於司法行政的問題但是我覺得如果要做他要去做一些問卷調查的方法或對象可能跟國民法官是有一點點本質上的不同因為他畢竟是一個專業的法律間接所以這個部分大概應該要再做進一步的去考量\n\n22\n00:07:47,805 --> 00:08:06,951\n法律希望救社會秩序的手段,如果說救詐欺的行為沒有達到遏止的效果的話,我個人是覺得這部分是不是應該也要進行檢討?\n\n23\n00:08:08,712 --> 00:08:31,143\n我想委員對於這個部分應該是有很深的期望因為這是社會基層的期望因為基層的老百姓他們都真的覺得說沒有辦法看到政府很有效的打仗所以他們會覺得就是沒有信心所以我們還是希望就是說法律到底就是要維持社會秩序的\n\n24\n00:08:32,044 --> 00:09:00,965\n一個防線一個手段所以我們還是希望說就相關的法律也好或者是這個大法庭也好應該都要有實際的一個成效才好啦好那接下來本席在針對有關就是這個羈押權的部分來請教我們政務法官就是我們看到就是最近就是發生了有這個民眾在網路上散播就是檢察官法官的一個\n\n25\n00:09:02,576 --> 00:09:31,031\n個資就是這個照片然後經過偵辦之後也把這個犯嫌找到了那也經過檢察官法官開庭審理後然後遭羈押禁建可是我們看到說這個遭羈禁建之後民眾黨的黃國昌宣稱說這樣子的一個行為是濫權羈押迫害人權所以修法刻不容緩那我想請教鄭法官您針對這一個案件您的看法如何\n\n26\n00:09:34,863 --> 00:09:39,552\n你覺得羈押就是說怎樣的羈押是合理性的\n\n27\n00:09:40,869 --> 00:10:07,135\n這樣的羈押是合理性的我覺得這個部分因為是要個案判斷這個也涉及到檢察官的核心的裁量權所以我沒有辦法去做評斷但是我覺得就是說就司法是最後的防險所以要維持司法的依法審判獨立對於司法人員的安全確實有保障的必要\n\n28\n00:10:08,723 --> 00:10:33,636\n是那因為本席就是跟您就叫一下政法官因為本席就他的一個記者會的標題我就覺得非常的矛盾因為他說濫權羈押迫害人權修法刻不容緩修法他是重點在修法那我們檢察官羈押的話他應該就是依法依法來進行羈押那如果說他要修法就是表示說這個法律\n\n29\n00:10:34,196 --> 00:11:03,323\n是有不適宜不不恰當的地方嗎如果沒有的話那應該就就不是合理的一個羈押嗎是不是如果是依法羈押當然就是合法的那至於那他現在要來修法那要把他修法等於就是要把他放寬呢還是說要來因為我們都知道這司法法律就是最後一道防線嘛那他等一下把這個防線打開所以這樣子的話我覺得就等於是在干預司法了\n\n30\n00:11:04,397 --> 00:11:30,480\n因為具體的修正草案並沒有看到所以也沒有辦法知道修正的內容當然就沒有辦法做進一步的評析我們真的就是不樂見說政治人物就是說利用職權來干預司法我覺得這樣子是非常不可取的也不是民主的社會一個正常的現象\n\n31\n00:11:32,441 --> 00:11:53,639\n那再来就是针对在就在最近嘛三个月六月二十七号那在野党夹着人数的优势三读通过法院组织法的修正案就是新增法庭的直播的一个规定那明定就是法律审裁原则公开例外不公开\n\n32\n00:11:54,159 --> 00:12:22,530\n事實審裁原則不公開例外公開那審理如果涉及重大公共利益或者社會矚目案件就得依當事人申請或依職權裁定來以適當方式實施公開播送那就這個部分不曉得政法官您的看法如何我想這個不管是就是法界團體提出這些無非都是要保護參與程序關係人他的基本人權就是這樣\n\n33\n00:12:23,846 --> 00:12:45,945\n法條已經通過了那法條通過的那個部分他就是說目前看起來就是他有做一些原則的限制那他為了就是要因應實際上那個每個個案不同的情節他也運用了很多不確定的法律概念比如說什麼適當方式播放啊或者是\n\n34\n00:12:47,166 --> 00:13:12,025\n違反國家安全供需兩署這些等等這些不確定的法律概念讓法官去做裁量那這個部分因為實施辦法是由司法院定的那我想那個司法行政單位應該會針對這些做一些比較妥適具體的那個規定以及保障就是說我們需要\n\n35\n00:13:13,328 --> 00:13:42,179\n裁判就是說如果立法目的是公開透明那除了這個之外我們更應該要兼顧所有參與程序的人他的權利的保障因為尤其是比如說像證人他其實他是為了遵守法律給他作證的義務來到法院那其實我們也應該要去保護他相關的權益那這些怎麼樣去兼顧我想司法行政單位他應該會去想辦法落實\n\n36\n00:13:43,923 --> 00:14:03,623\n事實上就是說有關這個法庭公開直播的議題也是討論很多年了是各界都沒有取得這個共識那這一次就是在野黨強推法庭的直播當然他們也夾著這個多數已經通過了不過在討論的過程當中法律界就是包括法官檢察官律師\n\n37\n00:14:04,604 --> 00:14:19,237\n學者也都齊聲的反對然後甚至有多達二三十個學界民間團體都發這個聲明來反對所以對於這樣子的一個倉促的一個推行法庭公開直播我覺得說對於未來可能\n\n38\n00:14:19,797 --> 00:14:32,851\n在這個法庭就是說在個案的一個就是在法庭有關案件的一個審理上就是對人權的保障或者是民意權人性的尊嚴等等我想這個都會造成很大的一個衝擊所以就\n\n39\n00:14:36,134 --> 00:14:53,726\n那個正被提名人因為你未來會是憲法法庭的這個法官那就是有關就是憲法法庭保障這個人權就是基本的一個保障所以就這個部分你覺得要怎樣來做的話會比較恰當\n\n40\n00:14:55,824 --> 00:15:16,444\n就是如同我剛講的也就是說法官在裁因為他有的並不是絕對那所以如果在裁量什麼叫做適當方式或者是在篩選那個案件怎麼去解釋這些事情的時候其實可能法官本身他就會去考量平衡\n\n41\n00:15:18,461 --> 00:15:33,895\n訴訟關係人他的基本人權的保障然後用什麼樣的方式去讓他不會受到侵害那我想另外一個問題是當公開播送了之後這些資料怎麼樣\n\n42\n00:15:35,919 --> 00:16:00,094\n會不會被使用怎麼樣去限制它的使用我想這是另外一個更需要去注意的問題因為畢竟現在資訊時代所以這個公開播放之後如果這些資訊流出去的話我們應該要怎麼樣去就是保管它然後讓它的使用是有正當目的我想這個也是另外一個很重要的課題\n\n43\n00:16:02,145 --> 00:16:23,297\n謝謝那接下來本席想再針對有關的這個不在籍投票的這個問題來請教政法官因為這個議題當然也是討論很久了那目前我們也是沒有一個共識那因為在目前以台灣的一個狀況因為我們也面臨著就是這個\n\n44\n00:16:24,458 --> 00:16:38,127\n對岸一個敵對的一個勢力對我們可以說是虎視眈眈而且是無所不用其極的一個滲透那想請教政法官就是說在這個階段您認為來開放不在籍投票您覺得適當嗎關於不在籍投票這件事情\n\n45\n00:16:43,968 --> 00:17:11,261\n如果照目前法律規定公民投票法它是有明文規定可以不在即投票但是要另外以法律定制所以這部分公民投票的不在即投票是需要立法去把它明定的那至於除了公民投票之外那因為公民投票它本身會比較沒有爭議是因為它是針對事情也就是說就是立法原則啊重大政策\n\n46\n00:17:11,801 --> 00:17:32,220\n所以針對事情的不在即投票相對爭議性會比較少但是針對人的投票爭議性相對就會比較高那因此就是除此之外為什麼全面不在即投票會引起這麼大的爭議大概也在這個地方那全面的不在即投票大概就是怎麼樣去考慮到\n\n47\n00:17:34,022 --> 00:18:02,597\n投票的秘密性公平性還有整個社會的信賴性我想這個是很重要那其實也是蠻困難的所以可能還要進一步的去形成共識是那就是說如果說沒有辦法進行全面的開放不在己投票如果是針對只針對開放特定族群比如說對原住民身心障礙者開放不在己投票通訊投票的話那您的看法又是如何\n\n48\n00:18:03,257 --> 00:18:18,190\n就是說如果是針對特定族群的話如果這些特定的族群他確實有這樣的一個不在籍投票的需求的時候那為了去保障憲法上保障的那個選舉權\n\n49\n00:18:19,651 --> 00:18:35,539\n那這個部分我想立法上確實有需要去優先考慮就是在全面投開放不在籍投票之前也許應該可以先去考量就針對特定族群他確實有沒有辦法到\n\n50\n00:18:37,340 --> 00:19:05,880\n實際的投票所去投票這樣的一個狀況而為了要保障他的投票權這個部分我想是可以就各個族群他的那個需求的特性去做一些考量那這個部分我覺得是可以優先考量的是好謝謝那最後剩一點時間那本席想再請教一下被提名人就是我們知道大法官這個憲法法庭非常的重要那大法官也扮演著維護自由民主\n\n51\n00:19:06,560 --> 00:19:35,855\n憲政秩序的關鍵的一個角色那未來若就任大法官之後在人權法制方面還有憲政體制的運作方面以及基本權利的保障方面您最關注關心的議題會是什麼請您簡單說一下所謂最關心議題因為如果是憲法法庭它基本上就是個司法司法就是要受理具體的案件了之後才會去處理它才會去處理它那所以\n\n52\n00:19:36,977 --> 00:20:04,331\n對於大法官來講現在的社會因為尤其是像我們現在已經邁入高齡化的社會社會衍生的一些變遷會影響到很多的層面那當它發生了一些需不需要進一步去做一些價值判斷的時候那這個等到有具體個案的時候我想這些都應該要去做考慮了\n\n53\n00:20:05,645 --> 00:20:07,715\n好那謝謝法官謝謝\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n769\t22241\t請陳樹越委員詢問謝謝院長請院長邀請大法官被提名人鄭純惠女士麻煩再請被提名人鄭法官請說明\n40787\t45796\t政法官您知道現在社會最深惡痛絕的犯罪行為是什麼\n47299\t70913\t應該就是這個詐騙事件吧詐騙 對 確實因為這個詐騙現在層出不窮然後受害的民眾非常的多那造成這個財產的損失甚至就是說這個生活上的一個壓力所以社會鄉親真的是深惡痛絕那也期待我們的政府可以拿出有效實際的作為來打詐\n72174\t88795\t那可是我們最近就是說有看到這個有關大法庭針對就是詐騙的詐欺犯罪危害防治條例當中的有關被害自白並且繳交犯罪所得就可以獲得減刑\n89716\t119103\t其中的犯罪所得到底是指個人獲得的報酬還是被害人全部的損失就是有關這個規定就是在今年的五月最高法院刑事大法庭有做出了裁定那這個裁定呢就是針對認為說這邊的犯罪所得指的是個人的報酬所以詐欺犯罪的被告只要自白並且繳回實際報酬就可以減刑那這個裁定做成之後啊\n119603\t148775\t引起这个民众的议论认为说这样的裁定等于是就是将诈欺合法化了那为诈欺犯大开方便之门那甚至就我所知法务部也认为大法庭采取这样的见解已经背离立法的意旨那也就是会因此造成不当的减刑的结果本席想在这边请教政法官针对这样子大法庭的一个裁定您认为适当吗恰当吗\n151487\t166923\t首先因為我是辦理民事審判所以對於刑事大法庭做出這樣裁定他實質考慮的因素跟最後的結果這個我是沒有辦法提出評論但是我認為大法庭最後做出來的這種\n168885\t181926\t法律見解是可以受公平的那透過公平就是社會上去或者是學者他們去提出相關的意見那就有進一步討論的空間也可以再有修正機會\n183568\t203515\t因為社會的公平 社會的一個意見真的是認為這樣子的一個裁定是沒有辦法被接受的認為這樣子對於詐欺犯人是太輕了這部分法務部也要提出修法的一個提案\n204435\t218568\t那當然這個就是我本席就針對這部分我有提案就是希望就是說針對這個部分我們還是要認定為是這個被害人的一個損失這樣子的話才有辦法達到\n220269\t243617\t遏止的壓力當然再回過頭來我再請教就是說因為對於打詐真的是社會的期待也因為大家都認為說在法令上或者是說最後的審判的結果都是太輕了就是說對於詐欺犯的判決都太輕了所以沒有辦法有效的遏止\n244497\t247178\t所以在日前豐原一家五口因為疑似詐騙案然後走上絕路這個案件發生之後可以說是引起社會各界非常大的震驚\n259845\t275162\t所以本席在地方啊就接獲到很多鄉親真的是非常的就是非常的關心而且希望我們針對這個部分提出比較嚴厲的一個修法那甚至有鄉親主張說針對詐欺的主謀啊要\n278725\t302208\t要求處以死刑然後針對共犯也要處以重刑針對這個部分請教政法官就是說您認為要怎樣才能夠有效來遏止詐騙這個部分怎麼樣有效遏止我想這個也是多面向就是立法行政這些各方面至於立法要提高\n303354\t327261\t刑度這些問題我想這是屬於立法裁量的問題但是可能也是要比較各個法條之間的相關性然後就是聽聽各界的意見這樣做一個比較就是我覺得這個是屬於立法裁量的問題這個我目前也沒有深入研究我也不敢做太就是太明確的說明這樣子是好\n330014\t358744\t回到剛剛的問題啊就是說這個大法庭是司法院就是為了要解決這個裁判的歧義統一法律的一個見解所推動建立來取代以往這個判例的一個新制度那就我剛剛舉的這個例子因為針對這個就是剛剛說的這個詐欺犯罪危害防治條例當中的這個被告自白並且繳交犯罪所得這個定義的一個裁定引起社會的一個嘩然\n360074\t379080\t所以到底就是說最高法院的大法庭所做出的統一法律見解的裁定到底能不能做到真正的一個解決問題彌平這個爭議或者是造成更麻煩的一個實務的一個困擾所以對於這個大法庭的一個成效我們是否要進行這個通盤的一個檢討\n381861\t397947\t關於大法庭 我就從民事大法庭的運作來講也就是說大法庭制度它其實是希望統一法律解釋這件事情就是回歸到司法權的本質透過法庭裁判的方式去處理它\n400028\t417104\t實施之後其實我們講從程序面它確實有讓當事人參與也有請專家學者來參與讓整個程序變得更公開透明那至於說程序進行之後最後做出來的多數的實體見解\n418485\t443102\t是不是大家都沒有意見那這個就很難說那因為本來實體的見解就是可受公平那出來如果說社會或學界都有意見那就有一個討論的空間可以促使法學的再進步那至於那個剛剛委員提到說是不是應該要做定期的成效評估像國民法官那樣子\n443479\t465155\t那這個因為是屬於司法行政的問題但是我覺得如果要做他要去做一些問卷調查的方法或對象可能跟國民法官是有一點點本質上的不同因為他畢竟是一個專業的法律間接所以這個部分大概應該要再做進一步的去考量\n467805\t486951\t法律希望救社會秩序的手段,如果說救詐欺的行為沒有達到遏止的效果的話,我個人是覺得這部分是不是應該也要進行檢討?\n488712\t511143\t我想委員對於這個部分應該是有很深的期望因為這是社會基層的期望因為基層的老百姓他們都真的覺得說沒有辦法看到政府很有效的打仗所以他們會覺得就是沒有信心所以我們還是希望就是說法律到底就是要維持社會秩序的\n512044\t540965\t一個防線一個手段所以我們還是希望說就相關的法律也好或者是這個大法庭也好應該都要有實際的一個成效才好啦好那接下來本席在針對有關就是這個羈押權的部分來請教我們政務法官就是我們看到就是最近就是發生了有這個民眾在網路上散播就是檢察官法官的一個\n542576\t571031\t個資就是這個照片然後經過偵辦之後也把這個犯嫌找到了那也經過檢察官法官開庭審理後然後遭羈押禁建可是我們看到說這個遭羈禁建之後民眾黨的黃國昌宣稱說這樣子的一個行為是濫權羈押迫害人權所以修法刻不容緩那我想請教鄭法官您針對這一個案件您的看法如何\n574863\t579552\t你覺得羈押就是說怎樣的羈押是合理性的\n580869\t607135\t這樣的羈押是合理性的我覺得這個部分因為是要個案判斷這個也涉及到檢察官的核心的裁量權所以我沒有辦法去做評斷但是我覺得就是說就司法是最後的防險所以要維持司法的依法審判獨立對於司法人員的安全確實有保障的必要\n608723\t633636\t是那因為本席就是跟您就叫一下政法官因為本席就他的一個記者會的標題我就覺得非常的矛盾因為他說濫權羈押迫害人權修法刻不容緩修法他是重點在修法那我們檢察官羈押的話他應該就是依法依法來進行羈押那如果說他要修法就是表示說這個法律\n634196\t663323\t是有不適宜不不恰當的地方嗎如果沒有的話那應該就就不是合理的一個羈押嗎是不是如果是依法羈押當然就是合法的那至於那他現在要來修法那要把他修法等於就是要把他放寬呢還是說要來因為我們都知道這司法法律就是最後一道防線嘛那他等一下把這個防線打開所以這樣子的話我覺得就等於是在干預司法了\n664397\t690480\t因為具體的修正草案並沒有看到所以也沒有辦法知道修正的內容當然就沒有辦法做進一步的評析我們真的就是不樂見說政治人物就是說利用職權來干預司法我覺得這樣子是非常不可取的也不是民主的社會一個正常的現象\n692441\t713639\t那再来就是针对在就在最近嘛三个月六月二十七号那在野党夹着人数的优势三读通过法院组织法的修正案就是新增法庭的直播的一个规定那明定就是法律审裁原则公开例外不公开\n714159\t742530\t事實審裁原則不公開例外公開那審理如果涉及重大公共利益或者社會矚目案件就得依當事人申請或依職權裁定來以適當方式實施公開播送那就這個部分不曉得政法官您的看法如何我想這個不管是就是法界團體提出這些無非都是要保護參與程序關係人他的基本人權就是這樣\n743846\t765945\t法條已經通過了那法條通過的那個部分他就是說目前看起來就是他有做一些原則的限制那他為了就是要因應實際上那個每個個案不同的情節他也運用了很多不確定的法律概念比如說什麼適當方式播放啊或者是\n767166\t792025\t違反國家安全 供需兩署這些等等這些不確定的法律概念讓法官去做裁量那這個部分因為實施辦法是由司法院定的那我想那個司法行政單位應該會針對這些做一些比較妥適具體的那個規定以及保障就是說我們需要\n793328\t822179\t裁判就是說如果立法目的是公開透明那除了這個之外我們更應該要兼顧所有參與程序的人他的權利的保障因為尤其是比如說像證人他其實他是為了遵守法律給他作證的義務來到法院那其實我們也應該要去保護他相關的權益那這些怎麼樣去兼顧我想司法行政單位他應該會去想辦法落實\n823923\t843623\t事實上就是說有關這個法庭公開直播的議題也是討論很多年了是各界都沒有取得這個共識那這一次就是在野黨強推法庭的直播當然他們也夾著這個多數已經通過了不過在討論的過程當中法律界就是包括法官檢察官律師\n844604\t859237\t學者也都齊聲的反對然後甚至有多達二三十個學界民間團體都發這個聲明來反對所以對於這樣子的一個倉促的一個推行法庭公開直播我覺得說對於未來可能\n859797\t872851\t在這個法庭就是說在個案的一個就是在法庭有關案件的一個審理上就是對人權的保障或者是民意權人性的尊嚴等等我想這個都會造成很大的一個衝擊所以就\n876134\t893726\t那個正被提名人因為你未來會是憲法法庭的這個法官那就是有關就是憲法法庭保障這個人權就是基本的一個保障所以就這個部分你覺得要怎樣來做的話會比較恰當\n895824\t916444\t就是如同我剛講的也就是說法官在裁因為他有的並不是絕對那所以如果在裁量什麼叫做適當方式或者是在篩選那個案件怎麼去解釋這些事情的時候其實可能法官本身他就會去考量平衡\n918461\t933895\t訴訟關係人他的基本人權的保障然後用什麼樣的方式去讓他不會受到侵害那我想另外一個問題是當公開播送了之後這些資料怎麼樣\n935919\t960094\t會不會被使用怎麼樣去限制它的使用我想這是另外一個更需要去注意的問題因為畢竟現在資訊時代所以這個公開播放之後如果這些資訊流出去的話我們應該要怎麼樣去就是保管它然後讓它的使用是有正當目的我想這個也是另外一個很重要的課題\n962145\t983297\t謝謝那接下來本席想再針對有關的這個不在籍投票的這個問題來請教政法官因為這個議題當然也是討論很久了那目前我們也是沒有一個共識那因為在目前以台灣的一個狀況因為我們也面臨著就是這個\n984458\t998127\t對岸一個敵對的一個勢力對我們可以說是虎視眈眈而且是無所不用其極的一個滲透那想請教政法官就是說在這個階段您認為來開放不在籍投票您覺得適當嗎關於不在籍投票這件事情\n1003968\t1031261\t如果照目前法律規定公民投票法它是有明文規定可以不在即投票但是要另外以法律定制所以這部分公民投票的不在即投票是需要立法去把它明定的那至於除了公民投票之外那因為公民投票它本身會比較沒有爭議是因為它是針對事情也就是說就是立法原則啊重大政策\n1031801\t1052220\t所以針對事情的不在即投票相對爭議性會比較少但是針對人的投票爭議性相對就會比較高那因此就是除此之外為什麼全面不在即投票會引起這麼大的爭議大概也在這個地方那全面的不在即投票大概就是怎麼樣去考慮到\n1054022\t1082597\t投票的秘密性公平性還有整個社會的信賴性我想這個是很重要那其實也是蠻困難的所以可能還要進一步的去形成共識是那就是說如果說沒有辦法進行全面的開放不在己投票如果是針對只針對開放特定族群比如說對原住民身心障礙者開放不在己投票通訊投票的話那您的看法又是如何\n1083257\t1098190\t就是說如果是針對特定族群的話如果這些特定的族群他確實有這樣的一個不在籍投票的需求的時候那為了去保障憲法上保障的那個選舉權\n1099651\t1115539\t那這個部分我想立法上確實有需要去優先考慮就是在全面投開放不在籍投票之前也許應該可以先去考量就針對特定族群他確實有沒有辦法到\n1117340\t1145880\t實際的投票所去投票這樣的一個狀況而為了要保障他的投票權這個部分我想是可以就各個族群他的那個需求的特性去做一些考量那這個部分我覺得是可以優先考量的是好謝謝那最後剩一點時間那本席想再請教一下被提名人就是我們知道大法官這個憲法法庭非常的重要那大法官也扮演著維護自由民主\n1146560\t1175855\t憲政秩序的關鍵的一個角色那未來若就任大法官之後在人權法制方面還有憲政體制的運作方面以及基本權利的保障方面您最關注關心的議題會是什麼請您簡單說一下所謂最關心議題因為如果是憲法法庭它基本上就是個司法司法就是要受理具體的案件了之後才會去處理它才會去處理它那所以\n1176977\t1204331\t對於大法官來講現在的社會因為尤其是像我們現在已經邁入高齡化的社會社會衍生的一些變遷會影響到很多的層面那當它發生了一些需不需要進一步去做一些價值判斷的時候那這個等到有具體個案的時候我想這些都應該要去做考慮了\n1205645\t1207715\t好 那謝謝法官 謝謝\n","txt":"請陳樹越委員詢問謝謝院長請院長邀請大法官被提名人鄭純惠女士麻煩再請被提名人鄭法官請說明\n政法官您知道現在社會最深惡痛絕的犯罪行為是什麼\n應該就是這個詐騙事件吧詐騙 對 確實因為這個詐騙現在層出不窮然後受害的民眾非常的多那造成這個財產的損失甚至就是說這個生活上的一個壓力所以社會鄉親真的是深惡痛絕那也期待我們的政府可以拿出有效實際的作為來打詐\n那可是我們最近就是說有看到這個有關大法庭針對就是詐騙的詐欺犯罪危害防治條例當中的有關被害自白並且繳交犯罪所得就可以獲得減刑\n其中的犯罪所得到底是指個人獲得的報酬還是被害人全部的損失就是有關這個規定就是在今年的五月最高法院刑事大法庭有做出了裁定那這個裁定呢就是針對認為說這邊的犯罪所得指的是個人的報酬所以詐欺犯罪的被告只要自白並且繳回實際報酬就可以減刑那這個裁定做成之後啊\n引起这个民众的议论认为说这样的裁定等于是就是将诈欺合法化了那为诈欺犯大开方便之门那甚至就我所知法务部也认为大法庭采取这样的见解已经背离立法的意旨那也就是会因此造成不当的减刑的结果本席想在这边请教政法官针对这样子大法庭的一个裁定您认为适当吗恰当吗\n首先因為我是辦理民事審判所以對於刑事大法庭做出這樣裁定他實質考慮的因素跟最後的結果這個我是沒有辦法提出評論但是我認為大法庭最後做出來的這種\n法律見解是可以受公平的那透過公平就是社會上去或者是學者他們去提出相關的意見那就有進一步討論的空間也可以再有修正機會\n因為社會的公平 社會的一個意見真的是認為這樣子的一個裁定是沒有辦法被接受的認為這樣子對於詐欺犯人是太輕了這部分法務部也要提出修法的一個提案\n那當然這個就是我本席就針對這部分我有提案就是希望就是說針對這個部分我們還是要認定為是這個被害人的一個損失這樣子的話才有辦法達到\n遏止的壓力當然再回過頭來我再請教就是說因為對於打詐真的是社會的期待也因為大家都認為說在法令上或者是說最後的審判的結果都是太輕了就是說對於詐欺犯的判決都太輕了所以沒有辦法有效的遏止\n所以在日前豐原一家五口因為疑似詐騙案然後走上絕路這個案件發生之後可以說是引起社會各界非常大的震驚\n所以本席在地方啊就接獲到很多鄉親真的是非常的就是非常的關心而且希望我們針對這個部分提出比較嚴厲的一個修法那甚至有鄉親主張說針對詐欺的主謀啊要\n要求處以死刑然後針對共犯也要處以重刑針對這個部分請教政法官就是說您認為要怎樣才能夠有效來遏止詐騙這個部分怎麼樣有效遏止我想這個也是多面向就是立法行政這些各方面至於立法要提高\n刑度這些問題我想這是屬於立法裁量的問題但是可能也是要比較各個法條之間的相關性然後就是聽聽各界的意見這樣做一個比較就是我覺得這個是屬於立法裁量的問題這個我目前也沒有深入研究我也不敢做太就是太明確的說明這樣子是好\n回到剛剛的問題啊就是說這個大法庭是司法院就是為了要解決這個裁判的歧義統一法律的一個見解所推動建立來取代以往這個判例的一個新制度那就我剛剛舉的這個例子因為針對這個就是剛剛說的這個詐欺犯罪危害防治條例當中的這個被告自白並且繳交犯罪所得這個定義的一個裁定引起社會的一個嘩然\n所以到底就是說最高法院的大法庭所做出的統一法律見解的裁定到底能不能做到真正的一個解決問題彌平這個爭議或者是造成更麻煩的一個實務的一個困擾所以對於這個大法庭的一個成效我們是否要進行這個通盤的一個檢討\n關於大法庭 我就從民事大法庭的運作來講也就是說大法庭制度它其實是希望統一法律解釋這件事情就是回歸到司法權的本質透過法庭裁判的方式去處理它\n實施之後其實我們講從程序面它確實有讓當事人參與也有請專家學者來參與讓整個程序變得更公開透明那至於說程序進行之後最後做出來的多數的實體見解\n是不是大家都沒有意見那這個就很難說那因為本來實體的見解就是可受公平那出來如果說社會或學界都有意見那就有一個討論的空間可以促使法學的再進步那至於那個剛剛委員提到說是不是應該要做定期的成效評估像國民法官那樣子\n那這個因為是屬於司法行政的問題但是我覺得如果要做他要去做一些問卷調查的方法或對象可能跟國民法官是有一點點本質上的不同因為他畢竟是一個專業的法律間接所以這個部分大概應該要再做進一步的去考量\n法律希望救社會秩序的手段,如果說救詐欺的行為沒有達到遏止的效果的話,我個人是覺得這部分是不是應該也要進行檢討?\n我想委員對於這個部分應該是有很深的期望因為這是社會基層的期望因為基層的老百姓他們都真的覺得說沒有辦法看到政府很有效的打仗所以他們會覺得就是沒有信心所以我們還是希望就是說法律到底就是要維持社會秩序的\n一個防線一個手段所以我們還是希望說就相關的法律也好或者是這個大法庭也好應該都要有實際的一個成效才好啦好那接下來本席在針對有關就是這個羈押權的部分來請教我們政務法官就是我們看到就是最近就是發生了有這個民眾在網路上散播就是檢察官法官的一個\n個資就是這個照片然後經過偵辦之後也把這個犯嫌找到了那也經過檢察官法官開庭審理後然後遭羈押禁建可是我們看到說這個遭羈禁建之後民眾黨的黃國昌宣稱說這樣子的一個行為是濫權羈押迫害人權所以修法刻不容緩那我想請教鄭法官您針對這一個案件您的看法如何\n你覺得羈押就是說怎樣的羈押是合理性的\n這樣的羈押是合理性的我覺得這個部分因為是要個案判斷這個也涉及到檢察官的核心的裁量權所以我沒有辦法去做評斷但是我覺得就是說就司法是最後的防險所以要維持司法的依法審判獨立對於司法人員的安全確實有保障的必要\n是那因為本席就是跟您就叫一下政法官因為本席就他的一個記者會的標題我就覺得非常的矛盾因為他說濫權羈押迫害人權修法刻不容緩修法他是重點在修法那我們檢察官羈押的話他應該就是依法依法來進行羈押那如果說他要修法就是表示說這個法律\n是有不適宜不不恰當的地方嗎如果沒有的話那應該就就不是合理的一個羈押嗎是不是如果是依法羈押當然就是合法的那至於那他現在要來修法那要把他修法等於就是要把他放寬呢還是說要來因為我們都知道這司法法律就是最後一道防線嘛那他等一下把這個防線打開所以這樣子的話我覺得就等於是在干預司法了\n因為具體的修正草案並沒有看到所以也沒有辦法知道修正的內容當然就沒有辦法做進一步的評析我們真的就是不樂見說政治人物就是說利用職權來干預司法我覺得這樣子是非常不可取的也不是民主的社會一個正常的現象\n那再来就是针对在就在最近嘛三个月六月二十七号那在野党夹着人数的优势三读通过法院组织法的修正案就是新增法庭的直播的一个规定那明定就是法律审裁原则公开例外不公开\n事實審裁原則不公開例外公開那審理如果涉及重大公共利益或者社會矚目案件就得依當事人申請或依職權裁定來以適當方式實施公開播送那就這個部分不曉得政法官您的看法如何我想這個不管是就是法界團體提出這些無非都是要保護參與程序關係人他的基本人權就是這樣\n法條已經通過了那法條通過的那個部分他就是說目前看起來就是他有做一些原則的限制那他為了就是要因應實際上那個每個個案不同的情節他也運用了很多不確定的法律概念比如說什麼適當方式播放啊或者是\n違反國家安全 供需兩署這些等等這些不確定的法律概念讓法官去做裁量那這個部分因為實施辦法是由司法院定的那我想那個司法行政單位應該會針對這些做一些比較妥適具體的那個規定以及保障就是說我們需要\n裁判就是說如果立法目的是公開透明那除了這個之外我們更應該要兼顧所有參與程序的人他的權利的保障因為尤其是比如說像證人他其實他是為了遵守法律給他作證的義務來到法院那其實我們也應該要去保護他相關的權益那這些怎麼樣去兼顧我想司法行政單位他應該會去想辦法落實\n事實上就是說有關這個法庭公開直播的議題也是討論很多年了是各界都沒有取得這個共識那這一次就是在野黨強推法庭的直播當然他們也夾著這個多數已經通過了不過在討論的過程當中法律界就是包括法官檢察官律師\n學者也都齊聲的反對然後甚至有多達二三十個學界民間團體都發這個聲明來反對所以對於這樣子的一個倉促的一個推行法庭公開直播我覺得說對於未來可能\n在這個法庭就是說在個案的一個就是在法庭有關案件的一個審理上就是對人權的保障或者是民意權人性的尊嚴等等我想這個都會造成很大的一個衝擊所以就\n那個正被提名人因為你未來會是憲法法庭的這個法官那就是有關就是憲法法庭保障這個人權就是基本的一個保障所以就這個部分你覺得要怎樣來做的話會比較恰當\n就是如同我剛講的也就是說法官在裁因為他有的並不是絕對那所以如果在裁量什麼叫做適當方式或者是在篩選那個案件怎麼去解釋這些事情的時候其實可能法官本身他就會去考量平衡\n訴訟關係人他的基本人權的保障然後用什麼樣的方式去讓他不會受到侵害那我想另外一個問題是當公開播送了之後這些資料怎麼樣\n會不會被使用怎麼樣去限制它的使用我想這是另外一個更需要去注意的問題因為畢竟現在資訊時代所以這個公開播放之後如果這些資訊流出去的話我們應該要怎麼樣去就是保管它然後讓它的使用是有正當目的我想這個也是另外一個很重要的課題\n謝謝那接下來本席想再針對有關的這個不在籍投票的這個問題來請教政法官因為這個議題當然也是討論很久了那目前我們也是沒有一個共識那因為在目前以台灣的一個狀況因為我們也面臨著就是這個\n對岸一個敵對的一個勢力對我們可以說是虎視眈眈而且是無所不用其極的一個滲透那想請教政法官就是說在這個階段您認為來開放不在籍投票您覺得適當嗎關於不在籍投票這件事情\n如果照目前法律規定公民投票法它是有明文規定可以不在即投票但是要另外以法律定制所以這部分公民投票的不在即投票是需要立法去把它明定的那至於除了公民投票之外那因為公民投票它本身會比較沒有爭議是因為它是針對事情也就是說就是立法原則啊重大政策\n所以針對事情的不在即投票相對爭議性會比較少但是針對人的投票爭議性相對就會比較高那因此就是除此之外為什麼全面不在即投票會引起這麼大的爭議大概也在這個地方那全面的不在即投票大概就是怎麼樣去考慮到\n投票的秘密性公平性還有整個社會的信賴性我想這個是很重要那其實也是蠻困難的所以可能還要進一步的去形成共識是那就是說如果說沒有辦法進行全面的開放不在己投票如果是針對只針對開放特定族群比如說對原住民身心障礙者開放不在己投票通訊投票的話那您的看法又是如何\n就是說如果是針對特定族群的話如果這些特定的族群他確實有這樣的一個不在籍投票的需求的時候那為了去保障憲法上保障的那個選舉權\n那這個部分我想立法上確實有需要去優先考慮就是在全面投開放不在籍投票之前也許應該可以先去考量就針對特定族群他確實有沒有辦法到\n實際的投票所去投票這樣的一個狀況而為了要保障他的投票權這個部分我想是可以就各個族群他的那個需求的特性去做一些考量那這個部分我覺得是可以優先考量的是好謝謝那最後剩一點時間那本席想再請教一下被提名人就是我們知道大法官這個憲法法庭非常的重要那大法官也扮演著維護自由民主\n憲政秩序的關鍵的一個角色那未來若就任大法官之後在人權法制方面還有憲政體制的運作方面以及基本權利的保障方面您最關注關心的議題會是什麼請您簡單說一下所謂最關心議題因為如果是憲法法庭它基本上就是個司法司法就是要受理具體的案件了之後才會去處理它才會去處理它那所以\n對於大法官來講現在的社會因為尤其是像我們現在已經邁入高齡化的社會社會衍生的一些變遷會影響到很多的層面那當它發生了一些需不需要進一步去做一些價值判斷的時候那這個等到有具體個案的時候我想這些都應該要去做考慮了\n好 那謝謝法官 謝謝\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.769 --> 00:22.241\n請陳樹越委員詢問謝謝院長請院長邀請大法官被提名人鄭純惠女士麻煩再請被提名人鄭法官請說明\n\n00:40.787 --> 00:45.796\n政法官您知道現在社會最深惡痛絕的犯罪行為是什麼\n\n00:47.299 --> 01:10.913\n應該就是這個詐騙事件吧詐騙對確實因為這個詐騙現在層出不窮然後受害的民眾非常的多那造成這個財產的損失甚至就是說這個生活上的一個壓力所以社會鄉親真的是深惡痛絕那也期待我們的政府可以拿出有效實際的作為來打詐\n\n01:12.174 --> 01:28.795\n那可是我們最近就是說有看到這個有關大法庭針對就是詐騙的詐欺犯罪危害防治條例當中的有關被害自白並且繳交犯罪所得就可以獲得減刑\n\n01:29.716 --> 01:59.103\n其中的犯罪所得到底是指個人獲得的報酬還是被害人全部的損失就是有關這個規定就是在今年的五月最高法院刑事大法庭有做出了裁定那這個裁定呢就是針對認為說這邊的犯罪所得指的是個人的報酬所以詐欺犯罪的被告只要自白並且繳回實際報酬就可以減刑那這個裁定做成之後啊\n\n01:59.603 --> 02:28.775\n引起这个民众的议论认为说这样的裁定等于是就是将诈欺合法化了那为诈欺犯大开方便之门那甚至就我所知法务部也认为大法庭采取这样的见解已经背离立法的意旨那也就是会因此造成不当的减刑的结果本席想在这边请教政法官针对这样子大法庭的一个裁定您认为适当吗恰当吗\n\n02:31.487 --> 02:46.923\n首先因為我是辦理民事審判所以對於刑事大法庭做出這樣裁定他實質考慮的因素跟最後的結果這個我是沒有辦法提出評論但是我認為大法庭最後做出來的這種\n\n02:48.885 --> 03:01.926\n法律見解是可以受公平的那透過公平就是社會上去或者是學者他們去提出相關的意見那就有進一步討論的空間也可以再有修正機會\n\n03:03.568 --> 03:23.515\n因為社會的公平社會的一個意見真的是認為這樣子的一個裁定是沒有辦法被接受的認為這樣子對於詐欺犯人是太輕了這部分法務部也要提出修法的一個提案\n\n03:24.435 --> 03:38.568\n那當然這個就是我本席就針對這部分我有提案就是希望就是說針對這個部分我們還是要認定為是這個被害人的一個損失這樣子的話才有辦法達到\n\n03:40.269 --> 04:03.617\n遏止的壓力當然再回過頭來我再請教就是說因為對於打詐真的是社會的期待也因為大家都認為說在法令上或者是說最後的審判的結果都是太輕了就是說對於詐欺犯的判決都太輕了所以沒有辦法有效的遏止\n\n04:04.497 --> 04:07.178\n所以在日前豐原一家五口因為疑似詐騙案然後走上絕路這個案件發生之後可以說是引起社會各界非常大的震驚\n\n04:19.845 --> 04:35.162\n所以本席在地方啊就接獲到很多鄉親真的是非常的就是非常的關心而且希望我們針對這個部分提出比較嚴厲的一個修法那甚至有鄉親主張說針對詐欺的主謀啊要\n\n04:38.725 --> 05:02.208\n要求處以死刑然後針對共犯也要處以重刑針對這個部分請教政法官就是說您認為要怎樣才能夠有效來遏止詐騙這個部分怎麼樣有效遏止我想這個也是多面向就是立法行政這些各方面至於立法要提高\n\n05:03.354 --> 05:27.261\n刑度這些問題我想這是屬於立法裁量的問題但是可能也是要比較各個法條之間的相關性然後就是聽聽各界的意見這樣做一個比較就是我覺得這個是屬於立法裁量的問題這個我目前也沒有深入研究我也不敢做太就是太明確的說明這樣子是好\n\n05:30.014 --> 05:58.744\n回到剛剛的問題啊就是說這個大法庭是司法院就是為了要解決這個裁判的歧義統一法律的一個見解所推動建立來取代以往這個判例的一個新制度那就我剛剛舉的這個例子因為針對這個就是剛剛說的這個詐欺犯罪危害防治條例當中的這個被告自白並且繳交犯罪所得這個定義的一個裁定引起社會的一個嘩然\n\n06:00.074 --> 06:19.080\n所以到底就是說最高法院的大法庭所做出的統一法律見解的裁定到底能不能做到真正的一個解決問題彌平這個爭議或者是造成更麻煩的一個實務的一個困擾所以對於這個大法庭的一個成效我們是否要進行這個通盤的一個檢討\n\n06:21.861 --> 06:37.947\n關於大法庭我就從民事大法庭的運作來講也就是說大法庭制度它其實是希望統一法律解釋這件事情就是回歸到司法權的本質透過法庭裁判的方式去處理它\n\n06:40.028 --> 06:57.104\n實施之後其實我們講從程序面它確實有讓當事人參與也有請專家學者來參與讓整個程序變得更公開透明那至於說程序進行之後最後做出來的多數的實體見解\n\n06:58.485 --> 07:23.102\n是不是大家都沒有意見那這個就很難說那因為本來實體的見解就是可受公平那出來如果說社會或學界都有意見那就有一個討論的空間可以促使法學的再進步那至於那個剛剛委員提到說是不是應該要做定期的成效評估像國民法官那樣子\n\n07:23.479 --> 07:45.155\n那這個因為是屬於司法行政的問題但是我覺得如果要做他要去做一些問卷調查的方法或對象可能跟國民法官是有一點點本質上的不同因為他畢竟是一個專業的法律間接所以這個部分大概應該要再做進一步的去考量\n\n07:47.805 --> 08:06.951\n法律希望救社會秩序的手段,如果說救詐欺的行為沒有達到遏止的效果的話,我個人是覺得這部分是不是應該也要進行檢討?\n\n08:08.712 --> 08:31.143\n我想委員對於這個部分應該是有很深的期望因為這是社會基層的期望因為基層的老百姓他們都真的覺得說沒有辦法看到政府很有效的打仗所以他們會覺得就是沒有信心所以我們還是希望就是說法律到底就是要維持社會秩序的\n\n08:32.044 --> 09:00.965\n一個防線一個手段所以我們還是希望說就相關的法律也好或者是這個大法庭也好應該都要有實際的一個成效才好啦好那接下來本席在針對有關就是這個羈押權的部分來請教我們政務法官就是我們看到就是最近就是發生了有這個民眾在網路上散播就是檢察官法官的一個\n\n09:02.576 --> 09:31.031\n個資就是這個照片然後經過偵辦之後也把這個犯嫌找到了那也經過檢察官法官開庭審理後然後遭羈押禁建可是我們看到說這個遭羈禁建之後民眾黨的黃國昌宣稱說這樣子的一個行為是濫權羈押迫害人權所以修法刻不容緩那我想請教鄭法官您針對這一個案件您的看法如何\n\n09:34.863 --> 09:39.552\n你覺得羈押就是說怎樣的羈押是合理性的\n\n09:40.869 --> 10:07.135\n這樣的羈押是合理性的我覺得這個部分因為是要個案判斷這個也涉及到檢察官的核心的裁量權所以我沒有辦法去做評斷但是我覺得就是說就司法是最後的防險所以要維持司法的依法審判獨立對於司法人員的安全確實有保障的必要\n\n10:08.723 --> 10:33.636\n是那因為本席就是跟您就叫一下政法官因為本席就他的一個記者會的標題我就覺得非常的矛盾因為他說濫權羈押迫害人權修法刻不容緩修法他是重點在修法那我們檢察官羈押的話他應該就是依法依法來進行羈押那如果說他要修法就是表示說這個法律\n\n10:34.196 --> 11:03.323\n是有不適宜不不恰當的地方嗎如果沒有的話那應該就就不是合理的一個羈押嗎是不是如果是依法羈押當然就是合法的那至於那他現在要來修法那要把他修法等於就是要把他放寬呢還是說要來因為我們都知道這司法法律就是最後一道防線嘛那他等一下把這個防線打開所以這樣子的話我覺得就等於是在干預司法了\n\n11:04.397 --> 11:30.480\n因為具體的修正草案並沒有看到所以也沒有辦法知道修正的內容當然就沒有辦法做進一步的評析我們真的就是不樂見說政治人物就是說利用職權來干預司法我覺得這樣子是非常不可取的也不是民主的社會一個正常的現象\n\n11:32.441 --> 11:53.639\n那再来就是针对在就在最近嘛三个月六月二十七号那在野党夹着人数的优势三读通过法院组织法的修正案就是新增法庭的直播的一个规定那明定就是法律审裁原则公开例外不公开\n\n11:54.159 --> 12:22.530\n事實審裁原則不公開例外公開那審理如果涉及重大公共利益或者社會矚目案件就得依當事人申請或依職權裁定來以適當方式實施公開播送那就這個部分不曉得政法官您的看法如何我想這個不管是就是法界團體提出這些無非都是要保護參與程序關係人他的基本人權就是這樣\n\n12:23.846 --> 12:45.945\n法條已經通過了那法條通過的那個部分他就是說目前看起來就是他有做一些原則的限制那他為了就是要因應實際上那個每個個案不同的情節他也運用了很多不確定的法律概念比如說什麼適當方式播放啊或者是\n\n12:47.166 --> 13:12.025\n違反國家安全供需兩署這些等等這些不確定的法律概念讓法官去做裁量那這個部分因為實施辦法是由司法院定的那我想那個司法行政單位應該會針對這些做一些比較妥適具體的那個規定以及保障就是說我們需要\n\n13:13.328 --> 13:42.179\n裁判就是說如果立法目的是公開透明那除了這個之外我們更應該要兼顧所有參與程序的人他的權利的保障因為尤其是比如說像證人他其實他是為了遵守法律給他作證的義務來到法院那其實我們也應該要去保護他相關的權益那這些怎麼樣去兼顧我想司法行政單位他應該會去想辦法落實\n\n13:43.923 --> 14:03.623\n事實上就是說有關這個法庭公開直播的議題也是討論很多年了是各界都沒有取得這個共識那這一次就是在野黨強推法庭的直播當然他們也夾著這個多數已經通過了不過在討論的過程當中法律界就是包括法官檢察官律師\n\n14:04.604 --> 14:19.237\n學者也都齊聲的反對然後甚至有多達二三十個學界民間團體都發這個聲明來反對所以對於這樣子的一個倉促的一個推行法庭公開直播我覺得說對於未來可能\n\n14:19.797 --> 14:32.851\n在這個法庭就是說在個案的一個就是在法庭有關案件的一個審理上就是對人權的保障或者是民意權人性的尊嚴等等我想這個都會造成很大的一個衝擊所以就\n\n14:36.134 --> 14:53.726\n那個正被提名人因為你未來會是憲法法庭的這個法官那就是有關就是憲法法庭保障這個人權就是基本的一個保障所以就這個部分你覺得要怎樣來做的話會比較恰當\n\n14:55.824 --> 15:16.444\n就是如同我剛講的也就是說法官在裁因為他有的並不是絕對那所以如果在裁量什麼叫做適當方式或者是在篩選那個案件怎麼去解釋這些事情的時候其實可能法官本身他就會去考量平衡\n\n15:18.461 --> 15:33.895\n訴訟關係人他的基本人權的保障然後用什麼樣的方式去讓他不會受到侵害那我想另外一個問題是當公開播送了之後這些資料怎麼樣\n\n15:35.919 --> 16:00.094\n會不會被使用怎麼樣去限制它的使用我想這是另外一個更需要去注意的問題因為畢竟現在資訊時代所以這個公開播放之後如果這些資訊流出去的話我們應該要怎麼樣去就是保管它然後讓它的使用是有正當目的我想這個也是另外一個很重要的課題\n\n16:02.145 --> 16:23.297\n謝謝那接下來本席想再針對有關的這個不在籍投票的這個問題來請教政法官因為這個議題當然也是討論很久了那目前我們也是沒有一個共識那因為在目前以台灣的一個狀況因為我們也面臨著就是這個\n\n16:24.458 --> 16:38.127\n對岸一個敵對的一個勢力對我們可以說是虎視眈眈而且是無所不用其極的一個滲透那想請教政法官就是說在這個階段您認為來開放不在籍投票您覺得適當嗎關於不在籍投票這件事情\n\n16:43.968 --> 17:11.261\n如果照目前法律規定公民投票法它是有明文規定可以不在即投票但是要另外以法律定制所以這部分公民投票的不在即投票是需要立法去把它明定的那至於除了公民投票之外那因為公民投票它本身會比較沒有爭議是因為它是針對事情也就是說就是立法原則啊重大政策\n\n17:11.801 --> 17:32.220\n所以針對事情的不在即投票相對爭議性會比較少但是針對人的投票爭議性相對就會比較高那因此就是除此之外為什麼全面不在即投票會引起這麼大的爭議大概也在這個地方那全面的不在即投票大概就是怎麼樣去考慮到\n\n17:34.022 --> 18:02.597\n投票的秘密性公平性還有整個社會的信賴性我想這個是很重要那其實也是蠻困難的所以可能還要進一步的去形成共識是那就是說如果說沒有辦法進行全面的開放不在己投票如果是針對只針對開放特定族群比如說對原住民身心障礙者開放不在己投票通訊投票的話那您的看法又是如何\n\n18:03.257 --> 18:18.190\n就是說如果是針對特定族群的話如果這些特定的族群他確實有這樣的一個不在籍投票的需求的時候那為了去保障憲法上保障的那個選舉權\n\n18:19.651 --> 18:35.539\n那這個部分我想立法上確實有需要去優先考慮就是在全面投開放不在籍投票之前也許應該可以先去考量就針對特定族群他確實有沒有辦法到\n\n18:37.340 --> 19:05.880\n實際的投票所去投票這樣的一個狀況而為了要保障他的投票權這個部分我想是可以就各個族群他的那個需求的特性去做一些考量那這個部分我覺得是可以優先考量的是好謝謝那最後剩一點時間那本席想再請教一下被提名人就是我們知道大法官這個憲法法庭非常的重要那大法官也扮演著維護自由民主\n\n19:06.560 --> 19:35.855\n憲政秩序的關鍵的一個角色那未來若就任大法官之後在人權法制方面還有憲政體制的運作方面以及基本權利的保障方面您最關注關心的議題會是什麼請您簡單說一下所謂最關心議題因為如果是憲法法庭它基本上就是個司法司法就是要受理具體的案件了之後才會去處理它才會去處理它那所以\n\n19:36.977 --> 20:04.331\n對於大法官來講現在的社會因為尤其是像我們現在已經邁入高齡化的社會社會衍生的一些變遷會影響到很多的層面那當它發生了一些需不需要進一步去做一些價值判斷的時候那這個等到有具體個案的時候我想這些都應該要去做考慮了\n\n20:05.645 --> 20:07.715\n好那謝謝法官謝謝\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.769,"end":22.241,"text":"請陳樹越委員詢問謝謝院長請院長邀請大法官被提名人鄭純惠女士麻煩再請被提名人鄭法官請說明"},{"start":40.787,"end":45.796,"text":"政法官您知道現在社會最深惡痛絕的犯罪行為是什麼"},{"start":47.299,"end":70.913,"text":"應該就是這個詐騙事件吧詐騙 對 確實因為這個詐騙現在層出不窮然後受害的民眾非常的多那造成這個財產的損失甚至就是說這個生活上的一個壓力所以社會鄉親真的是深惡痛絕那也期待我們的政府可以拿出有效實際的作為來打詐"},{"start":72.174,"end":88.795,"text":"那可是我們最近就是說有看到這個有關大法庭針對就是詐騙的詐欺犯罪危害防治條例當中的有關被害自白並且繳交犯罪所得就可以獲得減刑"},{"start":89.716,"end":119.103,"text":"其中的犯罪所得到底是指個人獲得的報酬還是被害人全部的損失就是有關這個規定就是在今年的五月最高法院刑事大法庭有做出了裁定那這個裁定呢就是針對認為說這邊的犯罪所得指的是個人的報酬所以詐欺犯罪的被告只要自白並且繳回實際報酬就可以減刑那這個裁定做成之後啊"},{"start":119.603,"end":148.775,"text":"引起这个民众的议论认为说这样的裁定等于是就是将诈欺合法化了那为诈欺犯大开方便之门那甚至就我所知法务部也认为大法庭采取这样的见解已经背离立法的意旨那也就是会因此造成不当的减刑的结果本席想在这边请教政法官针对这样子大法庭的一个裁定您认为适当吗恰当吗"},{"start":151.487,"end":166.923,"text":"首先因為我是辦理民事審判所以對於刑事大法庭做出這樣裁定他實質考慮的因素跟最後的結果這個我是沒有辦法提出評論但是我認為大法庭最後做出來的這種"},{"start":168.885,"end":181.926,"text":"法律見解是可以受公平的那透過公平就是社會上去或者是學者他們去提出相關的意見那就有進一步討論的空間也可以再有修正機會"},{"start":183.568,"end":203.515,"text":"因為社會的公平 社會的一個意見真的是認為這樣子的一個裁定是沒有辦法被接受的認為這樣子對於詐欺犯人是太輕了這部分法務部也要提出修法的一個提案"},{"start":204.435,"end":218.568,"text":"那當然這個就是我本席就針對這部分我有提案就是希望就是說針對這個部分我們還是要認定為是這個被害人的一個損失這樣子的話才有辦法達到"},{"start":220.269,"end":243.617,"text":"遏止的壓力當然再回過頭來我再請教就是說因為對於打詐真的是社會的期待也因為大家都認為說在法令上或者是說最後的審判的結果都是太輕了就是說對於詐欺犯的判決都太輕了所以沒有辦法有效的遏止"},{"start":244.497,"end":247.178,"text":"所以在日前豐原一家五口因為疑似詐騙案然後走上絕路這個案件發生之後可以說是引起社會各界非常大的震驚"},{"start":259.845,"end":275.162,"text":"所以本席在地方啊就接獲到很多鄉親真的是非常的就是非常的關心而且希望我們針對這個部分提出比較嚴厲的一個修法那甚至有鄉親主張說針對詐欺的主謀啊要"},{"start":278.725,"end":302.208,"text":"要求處以死刑然後針對共犯也要處以重刑針對這個部分請教政法官就是說您認為要怎樣才能夠有效來遏止詐騙這個部分怎麼樣有效遏止我想這個也是多面向就是立法行政這些各方面至於立法要提高"},{"start":303.354,"end":327.261,"text":"刑度這些問題我想這是屬於立法裁量的問題但是可能也是要比較各個法條之間的相關性然後就是聽聽各界的意見這樣做一個比較就是我覺得這個是屬於立法裁量的問題這個我目前也沒有深入研究我也不敢做太就是太明確的說明這樣子是好"},{"start":330.014,"end":358.744,"text":"回到剛剛的問題啊就是說這個大法庭是司法院就是為了要解決這個裁判的歧義統一法律的一個見解所推動建立來取代以往這個判例的一個新制度那就我剛剛舉的這個例子因為針對這個就是剛剛說的這個詐欺犯罪危害防治條例當中的這個被告自白並且繳交犯罪所得這個定義的一個裁定引起社會的一個嘩然"},{"start":360.074,"end":379.08,"text":"所以到底就是說最高法院的大法庭所做出的統一法律見解的裁定到底能不能做到真正的一個解決問題彌平這個爭議或者是造成更麻煩的一個實務的一個困擾所以對於這個大法庭的一個成效我們是否要進行這個通盤的一個檢討"},{"start":381.861,"end":397.947,"text":"關於大法庭 我就從民事大法庭的運作來講也就是說大法庭制度它其實是希望統一法律解釋這件事情就是回歸到司法權的本質透過法庭裁判的方式去處理它"},{"start":400.028,"end":417.104,"text":"實施之後其實我們講從程序面它確實有讓當事人參與也有請專家學者來參與讓整個程序變得更公開透明那至於說程序進行之後最後做出來的多數的實體見解"},{"start":418.485,"end":443.102,"text":"是不是大家都沒有意見那這個就很難說那因為本來實體的見解就是可受公平那出來如果說社會或學界都有意見那就有一個討論的空間可以促使法學的再進步那至於那個剛剛委員提到說是不是應該要做定期的成效評估像國民法官那樣子"},{"start":443.479,"end":465.155,"text":"那這個因為是屬於司法行政的問題但是我覺得如果要做他要去做一些問卷調查的方法或對象可能跟國民法官是有一點點本質上的不同因為他畢竟是一個專業的法律間接所以這個部分大概應該要再做進一步的去考量"},{"start":467.805,"end":486.951,"text":"法律希望救社會秩序的手段,如果說救詐欺的行為沒有達到遏止的效果的話,我個人是覺得這部分是不是應該也要進行檢討?"},{"start":488.712,"end":511.143,"text":"我想委員對於這個部分應該是有很深的期望因為這是社會基層的期望因為基層的老百姓他們都真的覺得說沒有辦法看到政府很有效的打仗所以他們會覺得就是沒有信心所以我們還是希望就是說法律到底就是要維持社會秩序的"},{"start":512.044,"end":540.965,"text":"一個防線一個手段所以我們還是希望說就相關的法律也好或者是這個大法庭也好應該都要有實際的一個成效才好啦好那接下來本席在針對有關就是這個羈押權的部分來請教我們政務法官就是我們看到就是最近就是發生了有這個民眾在網路上散播就是檢察官法官的一個"},{"start":542.576,"end":571.031,"text":"個資就是這個照片然後經過偵辦之後也把這個犯嫌找到了那也經過檢察官法官開庭審理後然後遭羈押禁建可是我們看到說這個遭羈禁建之後民眾黨的黃國昌宣稱說這樣子的一個行為是濫權羈押迫害人權所以修法刻不容緩那我想請教鄭法官您針對這一個案件您的看法如何"},{"start":574.863,"end":579.552,"text":"你覺得羈押就是說怎樣的羈押是合理性的"},{"start":580.869,"end":607.135,"text":"這樣的羈押是合理性的我覺得這個部分因為是要個案判斷這個也涉及到檢察官的核心的裁量權所以我沒有辦法去做評斷但是我覺得就是說就司法是最後的防險所以要維持司法的依法審判獨立對於司法人員的安全確實有保障的必要"},{"start":608.723,"end":633.636,"text":"是那因為本席就是跟您就叫一下政法官因為本席就他的一個記者會的標題我就覺得非常的矛盾因為他說濫權羈押迫害人權修法刻不容緩修法他是重點在修法那我們檢察官羈押的話他應該就是依法依法來進行羈押那如果說他要修法就是表示說這個法律"},{"start":634.196,"end":663.323,"text":"是有不適宜不不恰當的地方嗎如果沒有的話那應該就就不是合理的一個羈押嗎是不是如果是依法羈押當然就是合法的那至於那他現在要來修法那要把他修法等於就是要把他放寬呢還是說要來因為我們都知道這司法法律就是最後一道防線嘛那他等一下把這個防線打開所以這樣子的話我覺得就等於是在干預司法了"},{"start":664.397,"end":690.48,"text":"因為具體的修正草案並沒有看到所以也沒有辦法知道修正的內容當然就沒有辦法做進一步的評析我們真的就是不樂見說政治人物就是說利用職權來干預司法我覺得這樣子是非常不可取的也不是民主的社會一個正常的現象"},{"start":692.441,"end":713.639,"text":"那再来就是针对在就在最近嘛三个月六月二十七号那在野党夹着人数的优势三读通过法院组织法的修正案就是新增法庭的直播的一个规定那明定就是法律审裁原则公开例外不公开"},{"start":714.159,"end":742.53,"text":"事實審裁原則不公開例外公開那審理如果涉及重大公共利益或者社會矚目案件就得依當事人申請或依職權裁定來以適當方式實施公開播送那就這個部分不曉得政法官您的看法如何我想這個不管是就是法界團體提出這些無非都是要保護參與程序關係人他的基本人權就是這樣"},{"start":743.846,"end":765.945,"text":"法條已經通過了那法條通過的那個部分他就是說目前看起來就是他有做一些原則的限制那他為了就是要因應實際上那個每個個案不同的情節他也運用了很多不確定的法律概念比如說什麼適當方式播放啊或者是"},{"start":767.166,"end":792.025,"text":"違反國家安全 供需兩署這些等等這些不確定的法律概念讓法官去做裁量那這個部分因為實施辦法是由司法院定的那我想那個司法行政單位應該會針對這些做一些比較妥適具體的那個規定以及保障就是說我們需要"},{"start":793.328,"end":822.179,"text":"裁判就是說如果立法目的是公開透明那除了這個之外我們更應該要兼顧所有參與程序的人他的權利的保障因為尤其是比如說像證人他其實他是為了遵守法律給他作證的義務來到法院那其實我們也應該要去保護他相關的權益那這些怎麼樣去兼顧我想司法行政單位他應該會去想辦法落實"},{"start":823.923,"end":843.623,"text":"事實上就是說有關這個法庭公開直播的議題也是討論很多年了是各界都沒有取得這個共識那這一次就是在野黨強推法庭的直播當然他們也夾著這個多數已經通過了不過在討論的過程當中法律界就是包括法官檢察官律師"},{"start":844.604,"end":859.237,"text":"學者也都齊聲的反對然後甚至有多達二三十個學界民間團體都發這個聲明來反對所以對於這樣子的一個倉促的一個推行法庭公開直播我覺得說對於未來可能"},{"start":859.797,"end":872.851,"text":"在這個法庭就是說在個案的一個就是在法庭有關案件的一個審理上就是對人權的保障或者是民意權人性的尊嚴等等我想這個都會造成很大的一個衝擊所以就"},{"start":876.134,"end":893.726,"text":"那個正被提名人因為你未來會是憲法法庭的這個法官那就是有關就是憲法法庭保障這個人權就是基本的一個保障所以就這個部分你覺得要怎樣來做的話會比較恰當"},{"start":895.824,"end":916.444,"text":"就是如同我剛講的也就是說法官在裁因為他有的並不是絕對那所以如果在裁量什麼叫做適當方式或者是在篩選那個案件怎麼去解釋這些事情的時候其實可能法官本身他就會去考量平衡"},{"start":918.461,"end":933.895,"text":"訴訟關係人他的基本人權的保障然後用什麼樣的方式去讓他不會受到侵害那我想另外一個問題是當公開播送了之後這些資料怎麼樣"},{"start":935.919,"end":960.094,"text":"會不會被使用怎麼樣去限制它的使用我想這是另外一個更需要去注意的問題因為畢竟現在資訊時代所以這個公開播放之後如果這些資訊流出去的話我們應該要怎麼樣去就是保管它然後讓它的使用是有正當目的我想這個也是另外一個很重要的課題"},{"start":962.145,"end":983.297,"text":"謝謝那接下來本席想再針對有關的這個不在籍投票的這個問題來請教政法官因為這個議題當然也是討論很久了那目前我們也是沒有一個共識那因為在目前以台灣的一個狀況因為我們也面臨著就是這個"},{"start":984.458,"end":998.127,"text":"對岸一個敵對的一個勢力對我們可以說是虎視眈眈而且是無所不用其極的一個滲透那想請教政法官就是說在這個階段您認為來開放不在籍投票您覺得適當嗎關於不在籍投票這件事情"},{"start":1003.968,"end":1031.261,"text":"如果照目前法律規定公民投票法它是有明文規定可以不在即投票但是要另外以法律定制所以這部分公民投票的不在即投票是需要立法去把它明定的那至於除了公民投票之外那因為公民投票它本身會比較沒有爭議是因為它是針對事情也就是說就是立法原則啊重大政策"},{"start":1031.801,"end":1052.22,"text":"所以針對事情的不在即投票相對爭議性會比較少但是針對人的投票爭議性相對就會比較高那因此就是除此之外為什麼全面不在即投票會引起這麼大的爭議大概也在這個地方那全面的不在即投票大概就是怎麼樣去考慮到"},{"start":1054.022,"end":1082.597,"text":"投票的秘密性公平性還有整個社會的信賴性我想這個是很重要那其實也是蠻困難的所以可能還要進一步的去形成共識是那就是說如果說沒有辦法進行全面的開放不在己投票如果是針對只針對開放特定族群比如說對原住民身心障礙者開放不在己投票通訊投票的話那您的看法又是如何"},{"start":1083.257,"end":1098.19,"text":"就是說如果是針對特定族群的話如果這些特定的族群他確實有這樣的一個不在籍投票的需求的時候那為了去保障憲法上保障的那個選舉權"},{"start":1099.651,"end":1115.539,"text":"那這個部分我想立法上確實有需要去優先考慮就是在全面投開放不在籍投票之前也許應該可以先去考量就針對特定族群他確實有沒有辦法到"},{"start":1117.34,"end":1145.88,"text":"實際的投票所去投票這樣的一個狀況而為了要保障他的投票權這個部分我想是可以就各個族群他的那個需求的特性去做一些考量那這個部分我覺得是可以優先考量的是好謝謝那最後剩一點時間那本席想再請教一下被提名人就是我們知道大法官這個憲法法庭非常的重要那大法官也扮演著維護自由民主"},{"start":1146.56,"end":1175.855,"text":"憲政秩序的關鍵的一個角色那未來若就任大法官之後在人權法制方面還有憲政體制的運作方面以及基本權利的保障方面您最關注關心的議題會是什麼請您簡單說一下所謂最關心議題因為如果是憲法法庭它基本上就是個司法司法就是要受理具體的案件了之後才會去處理它才會去處理它那所以"},{"start":1176.977,"end":1204.331,"text":"對於大法官來講現在的社會因為尤其是像我們現在已經邁入高齡化的社會社會衍生的一些變遷會影響到很多的層面那當它發生了一些需不需要進一步去做一些價值判斷的時候那這個等到有具體個案的時候我想這些都應該要去做考慮了"},{"start":1205.645,"end":1207.715,"text":"好 那謝謝法官 謝謝"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":127,"blocks":[["陳委員素月：（15時13分）謝謝院長，請院長邀請大法官被提名人鄭純惠女士。"],["主席：麻煩再請被提名人鄭法官，請說明。"],["陳委員素月：鄭被提名人。"],["鄭純惠被提名人：委員好。"],["陳委員素月：本席想請教鄭法官，您知道現在社會最深惡痛絕的犯罪行為是什麼？"],["鄭純惠被提名人：應該就是詐騙事件吧？"],["陳委員素月：詐騙？對，確實！因為詐騙現在層出不窮，受害的民眾非常多，造成財產的損失，甚至是生活上的壓力，所以社會鄉親真的是深惡痛絕，也期待我們的政府可以拿出有效實際的作為來打詐，可是我們最近有看到有關大法庭針對詐欺犯罪危害防制條例當中，有關被害自白並且繳交犯罪所得就可以獲得減刑，其中的犯罪所得到底是指個人獲得的報酬，還是被害人全部的損失，有關這個規定，在今年5月最高法院刑事大法庭有做出了裁定，這個裁定認為這邊的犯罪所得指的是個人的報酬，所以詐欺犯罪的被告只要自白，並且繳回實際報酬就可以減刑，這個裁定做成之後，引起民眾的議論，認為這樣的裁定等於是將詐欺合法化了，為詐欺犯大開方便之門，甚至就我所知，法務部也認為大法庭採取這樣的見解，已經悖離立法的意旨，因此會造成不當減刑的結果。本席在這邊請教鄭法官，針對大法庭這樣子的裁定，您認為適當嗎？恰當嗎？"],["鄭純惠被提名人：首先因為我是辦理民事審判，所以對於刑事大法庭做出這樣裁定，它實質考慮的因素跟最後的結果，我是沒有辦法提出評論，但是我認為大法庭最後做出來的這種法律見解是可以受公評的，透過公評就是社會或者是學者他們去提出相關的意見，那就有進一步討論的空間，也可以再有修正的機會。"],["陳委員素月：是，因為社會的公評、社會的意見，真的是認為這樣子的裁定是沒有辦法被接受的，認為這樣子對於詐欺犯真的是太輕了，這部分法務部也要提出修法的提案，當然針對這部分，本席也有提案，希望針對這個部分，我們還是要認定為是被害人的損失，這樣子的話才有辦法達到遏止的壓力。再回過頭來，我再請教，因為對於打詐，真的是社會的一個期待，也因為大家都認為在法令上，或者是最後審判的結果都是太輕了，對於詐欺犯的判決都太輕了，所以沒有辦法有效地遏止。","日前豐原那一家五口因為疑似詐騙案而走上絕路，這個案件發生之後，可以說是引起社會各界非常大的震驚，所以本席在地方就接獲到很多鄉親真的是非常地關心，而且希望我們針對這個部分提出比較嚴厲的修法，甚至有鄉親主張針對詐欺的主謀要要求處以死刑，針對共犯也要處以重刑。關於這個部分，請教鄭法官，您認為要怎樣才能夠有效遏止詐騙？"],["鄭純惠被提名人：這個部分怎麼樣有效遏止，我想這也是多面向吧！就是立法、行政這些各方面，至於立法要提高刑度這些問題，我想這是屬於立法裁量的問題，但是可能也是要比較各個法條之間的相關性，然後聽聽各界的意見，做一個比較……我覺得這是屬於立法裁量的問題，我目前也沒有深入研究，我也不敢做太明確的說明。"],["陳委員素月：好，回到剛剛的問題，大法庭是司法院為了要解決裁判的歧異、統一法律的見解所推動、建立來取代以往判例的一個新制度，那就我剛剛舉的這個例子，因為針對詐欺犯罪危害防制條例當中的被告自白，並且繳交犯罪所得這個定義的裁定，引起社會的譁然，所以最高法院的大法庭所做出的統一法律見解的裁定，到底能不能做到真正解決問題，彌平這個爭議，或者是造成實務更麻煩的困擾？所以對於大法庭的成效，我們是否要進行通盤的檢討？"],["鄭純惠被提名人：關於大法庭，我就從民事大法庭的運作來講它，也就是大法庭制度其實是希望統一法律解釋這件事情，就是回歸到司法權的本質，透過法庭裁判的方式去處理它，而實施之後，其實我們講從程序面，它確實有讓當事人參與，也有請專家學者來參與，讓整個程序變得更公開透明，至於程序進行之後，最後做出來的多數實體見解，是不是大家都沒有意見，這個就很難說，因為本來實體見解就是可受公評，見解出來之後，如果社會或學界都有意見，那就有一個討論的空間，也可以促使法學的再進步。至於剛剛委員提及是不是應該要像國民法官一樣，進行定期成效評估？因為這是屬於司法行政的問題，我是覺得如果要做，那麼相關問卷調查的方法或對象，可能跟國民法官是有一點點本質上的不同，畢竟它是一個專業的法律見解，所以這個部分應該要再做進一步的考量。"],["陳委員素月：是，當然我們希望法律是維持社會秩序的一個手段，針對詐欺行為，如果沒有真的達到遏止效果，我個人覺得這部分是不是也應該進行檢討？"],["鄭純惠被提名人：我想委員對於這個部分應該是有很深的期望。"],["陳委員素月：因為這是社會基層的期望，基層老百姓沒有辦法看到政府有效的打詐，他們就會覺得沒有信心，到底我們還是希望法律是維持社會秩序的一個防線、一個手段，所以針對相關法律也好，或者大法庭也好，希望應該都要有實際成效才好。","接下來，本席再針對羈押權的部分請教鄭法官。最近我們看到有民眾在網路上散播檢察官、法官的個資、照片，經過偵辦之後，找到了犯嫌，也經過檢察官、法官開庭審理，遭羈押禁見，可是我們看到犯嫌遭禁見之後，民眾黨的黃國昌宣稱這樣的行為是濫權羈押、迫害人權，所以主張修法刻不容緩。我想請教鄭法官，針對這個案件，您的看法如何？"],["鄭純惠被提名人：嗯，這個……"],["陳委員素月：您覺得怎樣的羈押是合理性的？"],["鄭純惠被提名人：怎樣的羈押是合理性，我覺得這個部分因為要個案判斷，也涉及到檢察官的核心裁量權，所以我沒有辦法在此做評斷，但是我覺得司法是最後的防線，為維持司法依法審判的獨立，對於司法人員的安全確實有保障的必要。"],["陳委員素月：本席就這問題就教鄭法官，因為看到黃委員記者會的標題，我覺得非常矛盾，因為他說：濫權羈押，迫害人權，修法刻不容緩。他的重點是在修法，檢察官羈押一般應該就是依法進行羈押，他說要修法，是表示這個法律有不適宜、不恰當的地方嗎？如果沒有，那應該就是合理羈押，是不是？邏輯上是不是這樣？"],["鄭純惠被提名人：如果是依法羈押，當然就是合法的，至於那個……"],["陳委員素月：他現在要修法，等於是要把它放寬，還是說要來……我們都知道司法、法律就是最後一道防線，他等於是要把這個防線打開，這樣子的話，我覺得等於就是在干預司法。"],["鄭純惠被提名人：因為具體的修正草案並沒有看到，所以也沒有辦法知道修正的內容，當然就沒有辦法做進一步的評析。"],["陳委員素月：是，我們真的不樂見政治人物利用職權來干預司法，我覺得這是非常不可取的，也不是民主社會一個正常的現象。","再來就是最近，也就是上個月6月27號，在野黨挾著人數優勢，三讀通過法院組織法修正案，就是新增法庭直播的規定，明定法律審採原則公開，例外不公開；事實審採原則不公開，例外公開。審理如果涉及重大公共利益或者社會矚目案件，就得依當事人申請或依職權裁定，以適當方式實施公開播送。就這個部分，不曉得鄭法官您的看法如何？"],["鄭純惠被提名人：我想法界團體提出這些，無非都是要保護參與程序關係人他的基本人權，就是這樣。法條已經通過了，那法條通過的那個部分，目前看起來它有做一些原則的限制，就是為了要因應實際上每個個案不同的情節，它也運用了很多不確定的法律概念，比如說什麼適當方式播放，或者是違反國家安全、公序良俗等等這些不確定的法律概念，讓法官去做裁量，那這個部分因為實施辦法是由司法院訂，我想司法行政單位應該會針對這些做一些比較妥適具體的規定，以去保障……就是說我們需要裁判，如果立法目的是公開透明，那除了這個之外，我們更應該要兼顧所有參與程序的人他的權利保障，因為尤其是比如說像證人，其實他是為了遵守法律給他作證的義務來到法院，其實我們也應該要去保護他相關的權益，那這些怎麼樣去兼顧，我想司法行政單位應該會去想辦法落實。"],["陳委員素月：是，事實上有關法庭公開直播的議題也是討論很多年了，各界都沒有取得共識，那這一次在野黨強推法庭的直播，當然他們也挾著多數已經通過了，不過在討論的過程當中，法律界包括法官、檢察官、律師、學者也都齊聲地反對，然後甚至有多達二、三十個學界、民間團體都發聲明來反對，所以對這樣子一個倉促推行的法庭公開直播，我覺得對於未來可能在法庭有關案件的審理上，就是對人權的保障或者是名譽權、人性的尊嚴等等，我想這個都會造成很大的衝擊。鄭被提名人，因為你未來會是憲法法庭的法官，而憲法法庭保障人權是基本的保障，所以就這個部分，你覺得要怎樣來做的話會比較恰當？"],["鄭純惠被提名人：就是如同我剛剛講的，也就是說法官在裁……因為有的並不是絕對，所以如果在裁量什麼叫做適當方式，或者是在篩選那個案件怎麼去解釋這些事情的時候，其實可能法官本身他就會去考量、平衡訴訟關係人他的基本人權的保障，然後用什麼樣的方式去讓他不會受到侵害。","我想另外一個問題是當公開播送了之後，這些資料會不會被使用？怎麼樣去限制它的使用？我想這是另外一個更需要去注意的問題，因為畢竟現在是資訊時代，所以公開播放之後，如果這些資訊流出去的話，我們應該要怎麼樣去保管它，然後讓它的使用是有正當目的，我想這個也是另外一個很重要的課題。"],["陳委員素月：謝謝。接下來本席想再針對有關不在籍投票的問題來請教鄭法官，因為這個議題當然也是討論很久了，目前我們也是沒有共識。目前以臺灣的狀況，因為我們也面臨著對岸的敵對勢力，對我們可以說是虎視眈眈，而且是無所不用其極的滲透。想請教鄭法官，在這個階段，您認為開放不在籍投票，您覺得適當嗎？"],["鄭純惠被提名人：關於不在籍投票這件事情，如果照目前法律規定，公民投票法是有明文規定可以不在籍投票，但是要另以法律定之，所以公民投票的不在籍投票是須要立法明定的。除了公民投票之外，公民投票本身比較沒有爭議是因為它是針對事情，也就是關於立法原則、重大政策，所以針對事情的不在籍投票相對爭議性會比較少，但是針對人的投票爭議性就會相對比較高，因此為什麼全面不在籍投票會引起這麼大爭議的原因大概也就在這個地方。全面的不在籍投票大概就是怎麼去考慮到投票的秘密性、公平性還有整個社會的信賴性，我想這個是很重要的，其實也是滿困難的，所以可能還要進一步的形成共識。"],["陳委員素月：如果沒辦法全面開放不在籍投票，而只針對開放特定族群，譬如對原住民、身心障礙者開放不在籍投票進行通訊投票的話，您的看法又是如何？"],["鄭純惠被提名人：如果是針對特定族群的話，而這些特定族群也確實有不在籍投票的需求時，為了保障他們為憲法所保障的選舉權，這個部分在立法上確實有須要優先考慮，就是在全面開放不在籍投票之前，也許應該可以先針對特定族群去考量他確實有沒有辦法到實際的投票所去投票的狀況。為了要保障他的投票權，這個部分我想是可以就各個族群的需求特性去做一些考量，對此我覺得是可以優先考量的。"],["陳委員素月：好，謝謝。最後剩一點時間，本席想再請教被提名人，我們知道大法官在憲法法庭非常重要，大法官也扮演著維護自由民主憲政秩序的關鍵角色，未來如果就任大法官之後，在人權法治方面、憲政體制的運作方面，以及基本權利的保障方面，您最關注、關心的議題會是什麼？請你簡單說一下。"],["鄭純惠被提名人：對於所謂最關心的議題，如果是憲法法庭，它基本上就是司法，司法就是要受理到具體的案件之後才會去處理它，所以對於大法官來講，現在的社會，尤其是我們現在已經邁入高齡化的社會，社會衍生的一些變遷會影響到很多層面，當它發生了一些須不須要進一步去做一些價值判斷的時候，這要等到有具體個案的時候，這些都應該去做考慮。"],["陳委員素月：謝謝鄭法官。"],["鄭純惠被提名人：謝謝委員。"],["主席：謝謝陳素月委員的詢問，也謝謝被提名人鄭法官的說明。","接下來我們請林倩綺委員詢問。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":466,"meet_id":"全院委員會-11-3-4","speakers":["韓國瑜","吳宗憲","麥玉珍","賴瑞隆","翁曉玲","賴惠員","陳菁徽","何欣純","黃珊珊","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","陳素月","林倩綺","鍾佳濱","徐欣瑩","張雅琳","蘇清泉","林憶君","林楚茵","陳永康","王美惠"],"page_start":365,"meetingDate":["2025-07-10"],"gazette_id":"1146501","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1146501_00006","1146501_00007","1146501_00008"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期第4次全院委員會會議紀錄","content":"總統咨，為司法院大法官含院長、副院長，現有缺額7名，茲依據中華民國憲法增修條文第5條規\n定，提名蔡秋明、蘇素娥、蕭文生、鄭純惠、林麗瑩、陳慈陽、詹鎮榮7位為司法院大法官，並\n以蔡秋明為院長、蘇素娥為副院長，咨請同意案","agenda_id":"1146501_00004"}}}