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\"text\": \"就是說大家並沒有聚焦在這個地方所以可能大家都沒有呈現這個焦點以至於判決出來了之後大家就會覺得這個部分是沒有受到就是比較充分的辯論跟討論那所以如果您當年當年您就在憲法法庭你會支持這種結果嗎\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 386.658, \"end\": 386.778, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 386.778, \"end\": 386.958, \"score\": 0.889}, {\"word\": \"說\"}, {\"word\": \"大\", \"start\": 386.958, \"end\": 387.118, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"家\", \"start\": 387.118, \"end\": 387.398, \"score\": 0.928}, {\"word\": \"並\"}, {\"word\": \"沒\", \"start\": 387.398, \"end\": 387.498, \"score\": 0.8}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 387.498, \"end\": 387.679, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"聚\", \"start\": 387.679, \"end\": 387.879, \"score\": 0.923}, {\"word\": \"焦\", \"start\": 387.879, \"end\": 388.099, \"score\": 0.91}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 388.099, \"end\": 388.639, \"score\": 0.878}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"地\", \"start\": 388.639, \"end\": 388.859, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"方\", \"start\": 388.859, \"end\": 389.179, 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\"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"會\"}]}, {\"start\": 1019.827, \"end\": 1045.997, \"text\": \"有很多的民代媒體甚至國安單位或者是匿名帳號對於人民或政黨進行無證據的指控甚至指控為什麼共諜紅色滲透共產黨中共同路人這種指控讓台灣陷入一種麥卡錫主義的意念您不知道嗎\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 1019.827, \"end\": 1019.987, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"很\", \"start\": 1019.987, \"end\": 1020.147, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"多\", \"start\": 1020.147, \"end\": 1020.307, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 1020.307, \"end\": 1020.487, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"民\", \"start\": 1020.487, \"end\": 1020.767, \"score\": 0.945}, {\"word\": \"代\", \"start\": 1020.767, \"end\": 1021.788, \"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"媒\", \"start\": 1021.788, \"end\": 1022.828, \"score\": 0.98}, {\"word\": \"體\"}, {\"word\": \"甚\", \"start\": 1022.828, \"end\": 1023.028, \"score\": 0.987}, {\"word\": \"至\", \"start\": 1023.028, \"end\": 1023.328, \"score\": 0.888}, {\"word\": \"國\"}, {\"word\": \"安\", \"start\": 1023.328, \"end\": 1023.808, \"score\": 0.922}, 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\"一\", \"start\": 1044.176, \"end\": 1044.836, \"score\": 0.939}, {\"word\": \"種\"}, {\"word\": \"麥\"}, {\"word\": \"卡\", \"start\": 1044.836, \"end\": 1045.216, \"score\": 0.947}, {\"word\": \"錫\"}, {\"word\": \"主\", \"start\": 1045.216, \"end\": 1045.476, \"score\": 0.921}, {\"word\": \"義\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 1045.476, \"end\": 1045.576, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"意\", \"start\": 1045.576, \"end\": 1045.677, \"score\": 0.8}, {\"word\": \"念\", \"start\": 1045.677, \"end\": 1045.777, \"score\": 0.8}, {\"word\": \"您\", \"start\": 1045.777, \"end\": 1045.877, \"score\": 0.8}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 1045.877, \"end\": 1045.957, \"score\": 0.75}, {\"word\": \"知\", \"start\": 1045.957, \"end\": 1045.977, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"道\", \"start\": 1045.977, \"end\": 1045.997, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"嗎\"}]}, {\"start\": 1051.363, \"end\": 1069.196, \"text\": \"所以我原想要問的是什麼那對於這樣的麥卡錫主義現象您的看法是不是確實存在這樣的一個現象它是一個事實問題啊所以我沒有辦法去做回答\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"所\", 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\"譬如說我們的憲法我們是保障我們的民眾思想包括言論各方面的自由那甚至剛剛本席說的沒有任何的證據隨便看到出席某些場合他就直接指控而且就貼標籤而且大肆的撻伐這個應該就危害了整個的基本權也是違憲的行為吧\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"譬\", \"start\": 1170.609, \"end\": 1170.769, \"score\": 0.875}, {\"word\": \"如\", \"start\": 1170.769, \"end\": 1172.43, \"score\": 0.984}, {\"word\": \"說\"}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 1172.43, \"end\": 1172.67, \"score\": 0.859}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 1172.67, \"end\": 1173.09, \"score\": 0.951}, {\"word\": \"憲\"}, {\"word\": \"法\", \"start\": 1173.09, \"end\": 1173.31, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 1173.31, \"end\": 1173.531, \"score\": 0.902}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 1173.531, \"end\": 1173.771, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"保\", \"start\": 1173.771, \"end\": 1174.011, \"score\": 0.989}, {\"word\": \"障\", \"start\": 1174.011, \"end\": 1174.431, \"score\": 0.993}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 1174.431, \"end\": 1174.651, \"score\": 0.825}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 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0.963}]}, {\"start\": 1203.638, \"end\": 1208.888, \"text\": \"我還有時間委員是要回答嗎\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 1203.638, \"end\": 1203.838, \"score\": 0.896}, {\"word\": \"還\"}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 1203.838, \"end\": 1207.205, \"score\": 0.942}, {\"word\": \"時\"}, {\"word\": \"間\"}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 1207.205, \"end\": 1207.566, \"score\": 0.912}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 1207.566, \"end\": 1207.746, \"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"要\", \"start\": 1207.746, \"end\": 1208.688, \"score\": 0.974}, {\"word\": \"回\", \"start\": 1208.688, \"end\": 1208.868, \"score\": 0.951}, {\"word\": \"答\", \"start\": 1208.868, \"end\": 1208.888, \"score\": 0.727}, {\"word\": \"嗎\"}]}, {\"start\": 1211.172, \"end\": 1232.726, \"text\": \"因為抽象的問題如果照那個構成要件符合當然是但是具體的情況是怎麼樣我沒有辦法回答這樣子也就是說如果他真的是無故的去做這樣假設去個中國大陸回來就被貼為舔共或者是共諜或是紅色滲透這樣的指控是不是就是違憲好\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"因\", \"start\": 1211.172, \"end\": 1211.392, \"score\": 0.916}, {\"word\": \"為\"}, 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{\"word\": \"兩\"}, {\"word\": \"位\", \"start\": 1239.567, \"end\": 1239.868, \"score\": 0.95}, {\"word\": \"相\", \"start\": 1239.868, \"end\": 1240.109, \"score\": 0.982}, {\"word\": \"看\", \"start\": 1240.109, \"end\": 1240.511, \"score\": 0.941}, {\"word\": \"兩\"}, {\"word\": \"無\", \"start\": 1240.511, \"end\": 1240.692, \"score\": 0.889}, {\"word\": \"言\", \"start\": 1240.692, \"end\": 1240.712, \"score\": 0.849}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:00,343 --> 00:00:21,253\n請登記第七位徐欣怡委員請詢問謝謝主席本席請證法官麻煩再請被提名的證法官請說明\n\n2\n00:00:32,540 --> 00:00:57,010\n政法官您好委員好您被總統提名為中華民國的大法官本席相信這個是身為法律人的榮耀本席也看過您的自傳還有相關的學經歷本席也對於您過去的專業學經歷深表敬佩今天我們會站在這裡\n\n3\n00:00:57,981 --> 00:01:17,768\n主要就是為了我們要替人民尋找值得信賴的民主憲政忠誠的守護者我想您也了解大法官他不只是法條的解釋者他更是民主憲政的守護者防火牆所以\n\n4\n00:01:18,905 --> 00:01:37,191\n我想今天希望您能夠放開心胸把握機會在這裡非常坦誠而且明確的來回答以下本席有三大重點的議題要請您向大眾來表達今天您要\n\n5\n00:01:39,568 --> 00:02:05,840\n在這裡向大家證明您是值得託付的也是會守護我們民主憲政的大法官首先本席想跟您請教現在台灣社會對於重大暴力犯罪仍然有很強烈的判死的情緒民調也顯示有八成以上的民眾支持死刑\n\n6\n00:02:06,943 --> 00:02:19,331\n那本席就想請教您對於死刑制度的基本立場是廢死還是保留就這個問題首先我想要講的是\n\n7\n00:02:20,802 --> 00:02:41,328\n法官個人對於死刑純廢的主觀想法並不重要因為憲法的解釋是要依據客觀存在的價值體系法官不會因為他個人價值的偏好去取代憲法的價值所以死刑要不要廢除的這件事情\n\n8\n00:02:42,526 --> 00:02:59,730\n他其實是問題是說大法官可不可能經由憲法的解釋去廢除死刑應該是這樣的一個問題那就這個問題也就是說從憲法的目前憲法建構的價值體系裡面死刑是不是合憲還是違憲那就這個問題來講\n\n9\n00:03:03,407 --> 00:03:19,521\n我的結論應該就是不管是從就是說113憲判8號他從生命權的保障去著眼或者是其他大法官他從國家刑法權手段的這個憲法保留事項去\n\n10\n00:03:20,714 --> 00:03:49,713\n探討目前來講就是死刑作為國家刑罰權的手段的這一點是沒有違憲的那在沒有違憲的前提之下要不要廢除死刑那我覺得這個是民主程序要去解決的因為您剛剛提到了我們一一三年憲判制第八號的判決所以我們特別把它設定的七項程序保障列出來我想您很熟悉\n\n11\n00:03:50,413 --> 00:04:19,352\n那所以本席在這邊要接著追問因為剛剛您也有提到我們這七項裡面前六項實務上多已逐步落實那部分已透過這個法服制度或內部改革在進行所以您是否認為這六項就前面六項的程序保障已經足以對被告實質具有公平的訴訟權利保障請您檢答這個部分是不是這前面六項就夠了\n\n12\n00:04:22,394 --> 00:04:42,524\n我要講的就是說目前實務上確實已經在做這六項所以這六項就足夠了那這第七項您覺得它是可能辦得到的嗎要一致決各級法院合議庭一致決那您支持或反對這個一致決的設計\n\n13\n00:04:45,089 --> 00:04:55,881\n這個我覺得是一個程序上的問題就是說從我這第一個第一個我想就問您是非題這個一致決您支持或反對\n\n14\n00:04:57,619 --> 00:05:23,880\n就是這第七項的要各級法院合議庭須一致決妳認同嗎妳認同要一致決嗎他的前提我覺得就有商榷的餘地啦也就是說從程序上的觀點做不到嘛對不對一致決是不可能的是不是可能這個都不是我們說了算你要他每一審所有法官都判死\n\n15\n00:05:24,600 --> 00:05:35,775\n那这个是几乎是不可能好没关系虽然您说这个是不是可能的你无法来这个回答那所以您支持这个一致绝的设计吗\n\n16\n00:05:36,735 --> 00:06:01,936\n我的我的問題是說他有一個前提問題我覺得他是關於那個刑法是不是就有死刑這件實體法規定是不是合憲的一個申請其實適不適合納入那個程序法的合憲性要件這個我覺得是值得商榷的那尤其是不是刑法他本來就規定有死刑\n\n17\n00:06:02,596 --> 00:06:26,178\n不是我的意思是說是不是需要一字決他才合憲這樣的論述是有一點點需要討論的而且一字決這件事情是現在我們的法院組織法跟刑事訴訟法都沒有的那大法官提出這樣的一個可能大家會覺得很突兀主要是因為在整個辯論的過程當中他也沒有\n\n18\n00:06:26,658 --> 00:06:49,149\n就是說大家並沒有聚焦在這個地方所以可能大家都沒有呈現這個焦點以至於判決出來了之後大家就會覺得這個部分是沒有受到就是比較充分的辯論跟討論那所以如果您當年當年您就在憲法法庭你會支持這種結果嗎\n\n19\n00:06:52,011 --> 00:07:11,337\n這個我沒有辦法回答假設性的問題妳還是可以坦誠一點回答因為大家也在看妳的態度還有立場我剛剛的那個回答其實已經有就是說就是審判的範圍跟程序的保障這個部分是需要去討論的\n\n20\n00:07:12,737 --> 00:07:32,554\n我們的這個憲法不能不該偷偷改變我們社會對死刑的共識所以本席在這裡呢本席也表達我們本席的立場很清楚就是台灣現在應該保留死刑那這不僅是法律問題這更是社會正義跟民意的交匯點\n\n21\n00:07:33,835 --> 00:07:57,706\n我們社會上有超過八成以上的民眾不贊成實質廢死八成以上因為很多人擔心如果一旦我們國家的最高刑法死刑廢除了治安將惡化而惡犯無所畏懼所以我們不能讓法律它成為冰冷的文字忽略了民眾的恐懼與憤怒\n\n22\n00:07:59,126 --> 00:08:17,574\n那也有人說這個廢除死刑是文明進步的象徵但是本席更相信真正的文明進步是既能懲治邪惡讓惡徒畏懼也能夠保護好人防止無辜的蒙冤您認同嗎\n\n23\n00:08:19,434 --> 00:08:32,752\n我目前也認為就目前我們的整體社會秩序跟民意還沒有達到廢除死刑的共識而且我也認為就是說它的前提應該是\n\n24\n00:08:34,674 --> 00:08:36,956\n好謝謝您接著本席要進入第二題第二題是\n\n25\n00:09:00,288 --> 00:09:18,353\n有關司法遷移在實施憲政體制而且賦予法院司法審查權的國家像美國還有很多先進的民主國家司法遷移已經成為許多法官奉行的司法理念\n\n26\n00:09:19,642 --> 00:09:40,970\n您應該知道司法遷移吧我想您的法學素養也是非常好的所以本席第一個想問的就是說司法遷移對您而言是什麼這個大概就是司法自治吧也就是我們就是依法審判然後再具體司法遷移只是一個自治嗎\n\n27\n00:09:42,537 --> 00:10:07,668\n就是他在面對除了是依法審判之外在面對一些其他權力衝突的時候在什麼時候介入他必須要持有的態度那所以像在當代民主社會中立法者他是代表人民的意志我們是民主憲政的國家\n\n28\n00:10:09,915 --> 00:10:36,964\n經過政黨政治在國會的討論協商整個民主程序形成的法律這樣多元的整合是整個代議政治的基石所以請問當法律的核限性受到挑戰時大法官是否應該謹慎的介入那立法裁量您認為違憲審查的最低介入門檻界限是什麼\n\n29\n00:10:39,970 --> 00:10:52,061\n這個問題很抽象可以請委員再具體一點嗎其實很簡單就是立法院是我們中華民國最高的立法機關立法院通過的法案\n\n30\n00:10:53,792 --> 00:11:13,824\n司法院他應該不是立法院的這個上級機關所以對於立法通過的這樣的一個法案那大法官介入您覺得這個最低介入門檻是什麼可以任意介入嗎還是應該多謹慎的介入\n\n31\n00:11:14,680 --> 00:11:30,951\n這個部分我想我們向來的那個司法院的釋字的解釋先例他有去闡釋這個界線他有什麼他有去闡釋那個的界線也就是說原則上他的那個程序的審查\n\n32\n00:11:32,233 --> 00:11:50,629\n就是它的程序審查它通常它就有一個比較寬鬆就是有一個標準在那實體的內容的話當然就要看有沒有抵觸到憲法的基本原則我本席就在跟您討論這個我們也觀察到很多您剛剛講的解釋文像四字204號228號477號\n\n33\n00:11:54,392 --> 00:12:21,768\n有太多過去大法官解釋他都再三的強調一件事立法裁量是憲法賦予立法機關的自由領域可是我們觀察到現在近來市縣機關的憲法法庭有越來越嚴格的審查密度以及越來越侵入立法裁量權範圍的趨勢所以這一個部分\n\n34\n00:12:22,881 --> 00:12:46,963\n本席想表達的就是說我們的法官大法官們其實都是學有專精這個法學素養非常好但是也是屬於學歷優可是背景純粹單一都是法學出身同質性高但是立法院是來自全國民眾的名義\n\n35\n00:12:48,644 --> 00:13:09,055\n113席的立委是帶著不同區域的民眾的名義來到立法院包含不同的領域教育經濟不同的族群這樣的一個名義來到立法院有等於說從我們整個我們國家的我們從社會的\n\n36\n00:13:11,255 --> 00:13:29,980\n我們從山邊到海邊從本島到離島我們這113席的立委他是代表全國的民意在這裡制定出來的法令法條這個我們大法官可以任意的這樣子介入嗎\n\n37\n00:13:31,360 --> 00:13:48,904\n您的看法委員如果講任意當然就不行那是不是這個司法遷移是不是應該謹慎世界各國還有過去很多的大法官都是這樣的一個態度所以本席要請你表達您針對司法遷移您的態度我的態度\n\n38\n00:13:53,553 --> 00:14:18,412\n所以就是剛才講的那對於這個過去對於這個立法院通過的法條但是呢這個大法官就這樣子有很多呢介入否決您的看法你都沒有了解有這樣的所謂的介入或者是那個當然\n\n39\n00:14:20,151 --> 00:14:47,162\n對於那個有沒有違反了憲法的基本原則大法官還是要去做審查這個是無可避免的審查是OK但是要不要介入所謂的審查跟介入這個怎麼樣去定義最後判決出來包含你看刑法他有死刑剛剛我們講刑法有死刑可是大法官他怎麼可以他這個\n\n40\n00:14:49,335 --> 00:15:17,975\n解釋出來以後他要一致決這個就違反啊您剛剛也講啊沒有我的意思是說我要講的就是說其實如果是法治國原則的話各個領域都必須要受到拘束本席覺得您對司法遷移似乎沒有很重視但是因為時間關係本席要進入我們今天第三個本席要跟您請教也要聽您的意見\n\n41\n00:15:19,383 --> 00:15:39,126\n就是您應該了解什麼是麥卡錫主義麥卡錫主義有聽過有聽過不熟悉嗎請說就是像幾百年前的中世紀就是所謂的獵巫現象您了解嗎\n\n42\n00:15:41,520 --> 00:16:08,522\n請問委員要問的是就是好比如說幾百年前的中世紀人們呢因為這個無知或是恐懼點燃了這個獵巫的火把那也就是說對於很多的事情沒有任何的證據然後就隨便的栽贓或隨便的入罪所以我們今年啊\n\n43\n00:16:09,443 --> 00:16:19,394\n所以台灣今年我們114年台灣社會現在正陷入一種麥卡錫主義的陰影您的看法呢你還是不知道我不是不知道我是要請問一下委員指的是什麼嗎\n\n44\n00:16:30,156 --> 00:16:57,779\n說陷入這樣的陰影指的是什麼樣的事件或者是針對什麼樣的事情麥卡錫主義我花一點時間是在50年代我不是說這個主義我是說我原想要問說目前社會上所以你知道麥卡錫主義了了解現在社會上對於很多這個立場不同的人比如說現在我們的社會\n\n45\n00:16:59,827 --> 00:17:25,997\n有很多的民代媒體甚至國安單位或者是匿名帳號對於人民或政黨進行無證據的指控甚至指控為什麼共諜紅色滲透共產黨中共同路人這種指控讓台灣陷入一種麥卡錫主義的意念您不知道嗎\n\n46\n00:17:31,363 --> 00:17:49,196\n所以我原想要問的是什麼那對於這樣的麥卡錫主義現象您的看法是不是確實存在這樣的一個現象它是一個事實問題啊所以我沒有辦法去做回答\n\n47\n00:17:51,672 --> 00:18:12,491\n現在很多啊社會上好那本席具體的來問好了如果有公權力或是輿論的勢力對異議者進行無證據的政治標籤和懲罰是否構成了對基本權的侵害我這樣問抽象的問題當然會構成那具體的案例是不是好譬如說我再具體一點\n\n48\n00:18:15,111 --> 00:18:32,159\n沒有任何證據可能這個有些人他只是出席某些場合見了某些人然後就被貼標籤或指責說是舔共是中共同路人是共產黨你覺得這樣是不是侵犯了所謂基本權對當事人\n\n49\n00:18:35,851 --> 00:18:58,808\n委員問的這些問題其實都是一個假設性的問題沒有假設性現在都發生您很少看一些媒體或輿論嗎不是我的意思是說它到底是確實的情節是什麼那這個人其實要看到具體的案例這樣子無證據的指控這樣的行為是否違憲是否有侵害基本權\n\n50\n00:19:00,814 --> 00:19:28,808\n如果照委員講的所謂無證據的指控那他當然是有可能侵害了他的權利是就是這樣但是到底現在都這樣怎麼樣的情況這個我們當然就是要個案來認定這個是作為法官沒有辦法去回答這樣算不算那樣算不算我要有具體的案例看到相關的事證但現在您沒辦法判定但剛剛您已經回答了以這種情況\n\n51\n00:19:30,609 --> 00:19:57,143\n譬如說我們的憲法我們是保障我們的民眾思想包括言論各方面的自由那甚至剛剛本席說的沒有任何的證據隨便看到出席某些場合他就直接指控而且就貼標籤而且大肆的撻伐這個應該就危害了整個的基本權也是違憲的行為吧\n\n52\n00:20:03,638 --> 00:20:08,888\n我還有時間委員是要回答嗎\n\n53\n00:20:11,172 --> 00:20:32,726\n因為抽象的問題如果照那個構成要件符合當然是但是具體的情況是怎麼樣我沒有辦法回答這樣子也就是說如果他真的是無故的去做這樣假設去個中國大陸回來就被貼為舔共或者是共諜或是紅色滲透這樣的指控是不是就是違憲好\n\n54\n00:20:37,137 --> 00:20:40,712\n謝謝許新委員也謝謝被提名的兩位相看兩無言\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n343\t21253\t請登記第七位徐欣怡委員請詢問謝謝主席 本席請證法官麻煩再請 被提名的證法官請說明\n32540\t57010\t政法官您好委員好您被總統提名為中華民國的大法官本席相信這個是身為法律人的榮耀本席也看過您的自傳還有相關的學經歷本席也對於您過去的專業學經歷深表敬佩今天我們會站在這裡\n57981\t77768\t主要就是為了我們要替人民尋找值得信賴的民主憲政忠誠的守護者我想您也了解大法官他不只是法條的解釋者他更是民主憲政的守護者防火牆所以\n78905\t97191\t我想今天希望您能夠放開心胸把握機會在這裡非常坦誠而且明確的來回答以下本席有三大重點的議題要請您向大眾來表達今天您要\n99568\t125840\t在這裡向大家證明您是值得託付的也是會守護我們民主憲政的大法官首先本席想跟您請教現在台灣社會對於重大暴力犯罪仍然有很強烈的判死的情緒民調也顯示有八成以上的民眾支持死刑\n126943\t139331\t那本席就想請教您對於死刑制度的基本立場是廢死還是保留就這個問題首先我想要講的是\n140802\t161328\t法官個人對於死刑純廢的主觀想法並不重要因為憲法的解釋是要依據客觀存在的價值體系法官不會因為他個人價值的偏好去取代憲法的價值所以死刑要不要廢除的這件事情\n162526\t179730\t他其實是問題是說大法官可不可能經由憲法的解釋去廢除死刑應該是這樣的一個問題那就這個問題也就是說從憲法的目前憲法建構的價值體系裡面死刑是不是合憲還是違憲那就這個問題來講\n183407\t199521\t我的結論應該就是不管是從就是說113憲判8號他從生命權的保障去著眼或者是其他大法官他從國家刑法權手段的這個憲法保留事項去\n200714\t229713\t探討目前來講就是死刑作為國家刑罰權的手段的這一點是沒有違憲的那在沒有違憲的前提之下要不要廢除死刑那我覺得這個是民主程序要去解決的因為您剛剛提到了我們一一三年憲判制第八號的判決所以我們特別把它設定的七項程序保障列出來我想您很熟悉\n230413\t259352\t那所以本席在這邊要接著追問因為剛剛您也有提到我們這七項裡面前六項實務上多已逐步落實那部分已透過這個法服制度或內部改革在進行所以您是否認為這六項就前面六項的程序保障已經足以對被告實質具有公平的訴訟權利保障請您檢答這個部分是不是這前面六項就夠了\n262394\t282524\t我要講的就是說目前實務上確實已經在做這六項所以這六項就足夠了那這第七項您覺得它是可能辦得到的嗎要一致決各級法院合議庭一致決那您支持或反對這個一致決的設計\n285089\t295881\t這個我覺得是一個程序上的問題就是說從我這第一個第一個我想就問您是非題這個一致決您支持或反對\n297619\t323880\t就是這第七項的 要各級法院合議庭須一致決妳認同嗎 妳認同要一致決嗎他的前提 我覺得就有商榷的餘地啦也就是說從程序上的觀點做不到嘛 對不對 一致決是不可能的是不是可能 這個都不是我們說了算你要他每一審所有法官都判死\n324600\t335775\t那这个是几乎是不可能好 没关系虽然您说这个是不是可能的你无法来这个回答那所以您支持这个一致绝的设计吗\n336735\t361936\t我的我的問題是說他有一個前提問題我覺得他是關於那個刑法是不是就有死刑這件實體法規定是不是合憲的一個申請其實適不適合納入那個程序法的合憲性要件這個我覺得是值得商榷的那尤其是不是刑法他本來就規定有死刑\n362596\t386178\t不是我的意思是說是不是需要一字決他才合憲這樣的論述是有一點點需要討論的而且一字決這件事情是現在我們的法院組織法跟刑事訴訟法都沒有的那大法官提出這樣的一個可能大家會覺得很突兀主要是因為在整個辯論的過程當中他也沒有\n386658\t409149\t就是說大家並沒有聚焦在這個地方所以可能大家都沒有呈現這個焦點以至於判決出來了之後大家就會覺得這個部分是沒有受到就是比較充分的辯論跟討論那所以如果您當年當年您就在憲法法庭你會支持這種結果嗎\n412011\t431337\t這個我沒有辦法回答假設性的問題妳還是可以坦誠一點回答因為大家也在看妳的態度還有立場我剛剛的那個回答其實已經有就是說就是審判的範圍跟程序的保障這個部分是需要去討論的\n432737\t452554\t我們的這個憲法不能不該偷偷改變我們社會對死刑的共識所以本席在這裡呢本席也表達我們本席的立場很清楚就是台灣現在應該保留死刑那這不僅是法律問題這更是社會正義跟民意的交匯點\n453835\t477706\t我們社會上有超過八成以上的民眾不贊成實質廢死 八成以上因為很多人擔心如果一旦我們國家的最高刑法死刑廢除了治安將惡化 而惡犯無所畏懼所以我們不能讓法律它成為冰冷的文字忽略了民眾的恐懼與憤怒\n479126\t497574\t那也有人說這個廢除死刑是文明進步的象徵但是本席更相信真正的文明進步是既能懲治邪惡讓惡徒畏懼也能夠保護好人防止無辜的蒙冤您認同嗎\n499434\t512752\t我目前也認為就目前我們的整體社會秩序跟民意還沒有達到廢除死刑的共識而且我也認為就是說它的前提應該是\n514674\t516956\t好 謝謝您接著本席要進入第二題第二題是\n540288\t558353\t有關司法遷移在實施憲政體制而且賦予法院司法審查權的國家像美國還有很多先進的民主國家司法遷移已經成為許多法官奉行的司法理念\n559642\t580970\t您應該知道司法遷移吧我想您的法學素養也是非常好的所以本席第一個想問的就是說司法遷移對您而言是什麼這個大概就是司法自治吧也就是我們就是依法審判然後再具體司法遷移只是一個自治嗎\n582537\t607668\t就是他在面對 除了是依法審判之外在面對一些其他權力衝突的時候在什麼時候介入他必須要持有的態度那所以像在當代民主社會中立法者他是代表人民的意志我們是民主憲政的國家\n609915\t636964\t經過政黨政治在國會的討論協商整個民主程序形成的法律這樣多元的整合是整個代議政治的基石所以請問當法律的核限性受到挑戰時大法官是否應該謹慎的介入那立法裁量您認為違憲審查的最低介入門檻界限是什麼\n639970\t652061\t這個問題很抽象可以請委員再具體一點嗎其實很簡單就是立法院是我們中華民國最高的立法機關立法院通過的法案\n653792\t673824\t司法院他應該不是立法院的這個上級機關所以對於立法通過的這樣的一個法案那大法官介入您覺得這個最低介入門檻是什麼可以任意介入嗎還是應該多謹慎的介入\n674680\t690951\t這個部分我想我們向來的那個司法院的釋字的解釋先例他有去闡釋這個界線他有什麼他有去闡釋那個的界線也就是說原則上他的那個程序的審查\n692233\t710629\t就是它的程序審查它通常它就有一個比較寬鬆就是有一個標準在那實體的內容的話當然就要看有沒有抵觸到憲法的基本原則我本席就在跟您討論這個我們也觀察到很多您剛剛講的解釋文像四字204號228號477號\n714392\t741768\t有太多過去大法官解釋他都再三的強調一件事立法裁量是憲法賦予立法機關的自由領域可是我們觀察到現在近來市縣機關的憲法法庭有越來越嚴格的審查密度以及越來越侵入立法裁量權範圍的趨勢所以這一個部分\n742881\t766963\t本席想表達的就是說我們的法官 大法官們其實都是學有專精 這個法學素養非常好但是也是屬於學歷優 可是背景純粹單一都是法學出身 同質性高但是立法院是來自全國民眾的名義\n768644\t789055\t113席的立委是帶著不同區域的民眾的名義來到立法院包含不同的領域教育經濟不同的族群這樣的一個名義來到立法院有等於說從我們整個我們國家的我們從社會的\n791255\t809980\t我們從山邊到海邊從本島到離島我們這113席的立委他是代表全國的民意在這裡制定出來的法令法條這個我們大法官可以任意的這樣子介入嗎\n811360\t828904\t您的看法委員如果講任意當然就不行那是不是這個司法遷移是不是應該謹慎世界各國還有過去很多的大法官都是這樣的一個態度所以本席要請你表達您針對司法遷移您的態度我的態度\n833553\t858412\t所以就是剛才講的那對於這個過去對於這個立法院通過的法條但是呢這個大法官就這樣子有很多呢介入否決您的看法你都沒有了解有這樣的所謂的介入或者是那個當然\n860151\t887162\t對於那個有沒有違反了憲法的基本原則大法官還是要去做審查這個是無可避免的審查是OK但是要不要介入所謂的審查跟介入這個怎麼樣去定義最後判決出來包含你看刑法他有死刑剛剛我們講刑法有死刑可是大法官他怎麼可以他這個\n889335\t917975\t解釋出來以後他要一致決這個就違反啊您剛剛也講啊沒有 我的意思是說我要講的就是說其實如果是法治國原則的話各個領域都必須要受到拘束本席覺得您對司法遷移似乎沒有很重視但是因為時間關係本席要進入我們今天第三個本席要跟您請教也要聽您的意見\n919383\t939126\t就是您應該了解什麼是麥卡錫主義麥卡錫主義有聽過有聽過不熟悉嗎請說就是像幾百年前的中世紀就是所謂的獵巫現象您了解嗎\n941520\t968522\t請問委員要問的是就是好比如說幾百年前的中世紀人們呢因為這個無知或是恐懼點燃了這個獵巫的火把那也就是說對於很多的事情沒有任何的證據然後就隨便的栽贓或隨便的入罪所以我們今年啊\n969443\t979394\t所以台灣今年我們114年台灣社會現在正陷入一種麥卡錫主義的陰影您的看法呢你還是不知道我不是不知道我是要請問一下委員指的是什麼嗎\n990156\t1017779\t說陷入這樣的陰影指的是什麼樣的事件或者是針對什麼樣的事情麥卡錫主義我花一點時間是在50年代我不是說這個主義我是說我原想要問說目前社會上所以你知道麥卡錫主義了了解現在社會上對於很多這個立場不同的人比如說現在我們的社會\n1019827\t1045997\t有很多的民代媒體甚至國安單位或者是匿名帳號對於人民或政黨進行無證據的指控甚至指控為什麼共諜紅色滲透共產黨中共同路人這種指控讓台灣陷入一種麥卡錫主義的意念您不知道嗎\n1051363\t1069196\t所以我原想要問的是什麼那對於這樣的麥卡錫主義現象您的看法是不是確實存在這樣的一個現象它是一個事實問題啊所以我沒有辦法去做回答\n1071672\t1092491\t現在很多啊 社會上好 那本席具體的來問好了如果有公權力或是輿論的勢力對異議者進行無證據的政治標籤和懲罰是否構成了對基本權的侵害我這樣問抽象的問題當然會構成那具體的案例是不是好 譬如說 我再具體一點\n1095111\t1112159\t沒有任何證據可能這個有些人他只是出席某些場合見了某些人然後就被貼標籤或指責說是舔共是中共同路人是共產黨你覺得這樣是不是侵犯了所謂基本權對當事人\n1115851\t1138808\t委員問的這些問題其實都是一個假設性的問題沒有假設性 現在都發生 您很少看一些媒體或輿論嗎不是 我的意思是說 它到底是確實的情節是什麼那這個人其實要看到具體的案例這樣子無證據的指控 這樣的行為是否違憲是否有侵害基本權\n1140814\t1168808\t如果照委員講的所謂無證據的指控那他當然是有可能侵害了他的權利是就是這樣但是到底現在都這樣怎麼樣的情況這個我們當然就是要個案來認定這個是作為法官沒有辦法去回答這樣算不算那樣算不算我要有具體的案例看到相關的事證但現在您沒辦法判定但剛剛您已經回答了以這種情況\n1170609\t1197143\t譬如說我們的憲法我們是保障我們的民眾思想包括言論各方面的自由那甚至剛剛本席說的沒有任何的證據隨便看到出席某些場合他就直接指控而且就貼標籤而且大肆的撻伐這個應該就危害了整個的基本權也是違憲的行為吧\n1203638\t1208888\t我還有時間委員是要回答嗎\n1211172\t1232726\t因為抽象的問題如果照那個構成要件符合當然是但是具體的情況是怎麼樣我沒有辦法回答這樣子也就是說如果他真的是無故的去做這樣假設去個中國大陸回來就被貼為舔共或者是共諜或是紅色滲透這樣的指控是不是就是違憲好\n1237137\t1240712\t謝謝許新委員也謝謝被提名的兩位相看兩無言\n","txt":"請登記第七位徐欣怡委員請詢問謝謝主席 本席請證法官麻煩再請 被提名的證法官請說明\n政法官您好委員好您被總統提名為中華民國的大法官本席相信這個是身為法律人的榮耀本席也看過您的自傳還有相關的學經歷本席也對於您過去的專業學經歷深表敬佩今天我們會站在這裡\n主要就是為了我們要替人民尋找值得信賴的民主憲政忠誠的守護者我想您也了解大法官他不只是法條的解釋者他更是民主憲政的守護者防火牆所以\n我想今天希望您能夠放開心胸把握機會在這裡非常坦誠而且明確的來回答以下本席有三大重點的議題要請您向大眾來表達今天您要\n在這裡向大家證明您是值得託付的也是會守護我們民主憲政的大法官首先本席想跟您請教現在台灣社會對於重大暴力犯罪仍然有很強烈的判死的情緒民調也顯示有八成以上的民眾支持死刑\n那本席就想請教您對於死刑制度的基本立場是廢死還是保留就這個問題首先我想要講的是\n法官個人對於死刑純廢的主觀想法並不重要因為憲法的解釋是要依據客觀存在的價值體系法官不會因為他個人價值的偏好去取代憲法的價值所以死刑要不要廢除的這件事情\n他其實是問題是說大法官可不可能經由憲法的解釋去廢除死刑應該是這樣的一個問題那就這個問題也就是說從憲法的目前憲法建構的價值體系裡面死刑是不是合憲還是違憲那就這個問題來講\n我的結論應該就是不管是從就是說113憲判8號他從生命權的保障去著眼或者是其他大法官他從國家刑法權手段的這個憲法保留事項去\n探討目前來講就是死刑作為國家刑罰權的手段的這一點是沒有違憲的那在沒有違憲的前提之下要不要廢除死刑那我覺得這個是民主程序要去解決的因為您剛剛提到了我們一一三年憲判制第八號的判決所以我們特別把它設定的七項程序保障列出來我想您很熟悉\n那所以本席在這邊要接著追問因為剛剛您也有提到我們這七項裡面前六項實務上多已逐步落實那部分已透過這個法服制度或內部改革在進行所以您是否認為這六項就前面六項的程序保障已經足以對被告實質具有公平的訴訟權利保障請您檢答這個部分是不是這前面六項就夠了\n我要講的就是說目前實務上確實已經在做這六項所以這六項就足夠了那這第七項您覺得它是可能辦得到的嗎要一致決各級法院合議庭一致決那您支持或反對這個一致決的設計\n這個我覺得是一個程序上的問題就是說從我這第一個第一個我想就問您是非題這個一致決您支持或反對\n就是這第七項的 要各級法院合議庭須一致決妳認同嗎 妳認同要一致決嗎他的前提 我覺得就有商榷的餘地啦也就是說從程序上的觀點做不到嘛 對不對 一致決是不可能的是不是可能 這個都不是我們說了算你要他每一審所有法官都判死\n那这个是几乎是不可能好 没关系虽然您说这个是不是可能的你无法来这个回答那所以您支持这个一致绝的设计吗\n我的我的問題是說他有一個前提問題我覺得他是關於那個刑法是不是就有死刑這件實體法規定是不是合憲的一個申請其實適不適合納入那個程序法的合憲性要件這個我覺得是值得商榷的那尤其是不是刑法他本來就規定有死刑\n不是我的意思是說是不是需要一字決他才合憲這樣的論述是有一點點需要討論的而且一字決這件事情是現在我們的法院組織法跟刑事訴訟法都沒有的那大法官提出這樣的一個可能大家會覺得很突兀主要是因為在整個辯論的過程當中他也沒有\n就是說大家並沒有聚焦在這個地方所以可能大家都沒有呈現這個焦點以至於判決出來了之後大家就會覺得這個部分是沒有受到就是比較充分的辯論跟討論那所以如果您當年當年您就在憲法法庭你會支持這種結果嗎\n這個我沒有辦法回答假設性的問題妳還是可以坦誠一點回答因為大家也在看妳的態度還有立場我剛剛的那個回答其實已經有就是說就是審判的範圍跟程序的保障這個部分是需要去討論的\n我們的這個憲法不能不該偷偷改變我們社會對死刑的共識所以本席在這裡呢本席也表達我們本席的立場很清楚就是台灣現在應該保留死刑那這不僅是法律問題這更是社會正義跟民意的交匯點\n我們社會上有超過八成以上的民眾不贊成實質廢死 八成以上因為很多人擔心如果一旦我們國家的最高刑法死刑廢除了治安將惡化 而惡犯無所畏懼所以我們不能讓法律它成為冰冷的文字忽略了民眾的恐懼與憤怒\n那也有人說這個廢除死刑是文明進步的象徵但是本席更相信真正的文明進步是既能懲治邪惡讓惡徒畏懼也能夠保護好人防止無辜的蒙冤您認同嗎\n我目前也認為就目前我們的整體社會秩序跟民意還沒有達到廢除死刑的共識而且我也認為就是說它的前提應該是\n好 謝謝您接著本席要進入第二題第二題是\n有關司法遷移在實施憲政體制而且賦予法院司法審查權的國家像美國還有很多先進的民主國家司法遷移已經成為許多法官奉行的司法理念\n您應該知道司法遷移吧我想您的法學素養也是非常好的所以本席第一個想問的就是說司法遷移對您而言是什麼這個大概就是司法自治吧也就是我們就是依法審判然後再具體司法遷移只是一個自治嗎\n就是他在面對 除了是依法審判之外在面對一些其他權力衝突的時候在什麼時候介入他必須要持有的態度那所以像在當代民主社會中立法者他是代表人民的意志我們是民主憲政的國家\n經過政黨政治在國會的討論協商整個民主程序形成的法律這樣多元的整合是整個代議政治的基石所以請問當法律的核限性受到挑戰時大法官是否應該謹慎的介入那立法裁量您認為違憲審查的最低介入門檻界限是什麼\n這個問題很抽象可以請委員再具體一點嗎其實很簡單就是立法院是我們中華民國最高的立法機關立法院通過的法案\n司法院他應該不是立法院的這個上級機關所以對於立法通過的這樣的一個法案那大法官介入您覺得這個最低介入門檻是什麼可以任意介入嗎還是應該多謹慎的介入\n這個部分我想我們向來的那個司法院的釋字的解釋先例他有去闡釋這個界線他有什麼他有去闡釋那個的界線也就是說原則上他的那個程序的審查\n就是它的程序審查它通常它就有一個比較寬鬆就是有一個標準在那實體的內容的話當然就要看有沒有抵觸到憲法的基本原則我本席就在跟您討論這個我們也觀察到很多您剛剛講的解釋文像四字204號228號477號\n有太多過去大法官解釋他都再三的強調一件事立法裁量是憲法賦予立法機關的自由領域可是我們觀察到現在近來市縣機關的憲法法庭有越來越嚴格的審查密度以及越來越侵入立法裁量權範圍的趨勢所以這一個部分\n本席想表達的就是說我們的法官 大法官們其實都是學有專精 這個法學素養非常好但是也是屬於學歷優 可是背景純粹單一都是法學出身 同質性高但是立法院是來自全國民眾的名義\n113席的立委是帶著不同區域的民眾的名義來到立法院包含不同的領域教育經濟不同的族群這樣的一個名義來到立法院有等於說從我們整個我們國家的我們從社會的\n我們從山邊到海邊從本島到離島我們這113席的立委他是代表全國的民意在這裡制定出來的法令法條這個我們大法官可以任意的這樣子介入嗎\n您的看法委員如果講任意當然就不行那是不是這個司法遷移是不是應該謹慎世界各國還有過去很多的大法官都是這樣的一個態度所以本席要請你表達您針對司法遷移您的態度我的態度\n所以就是剛才講的那對於這個過去對於這個立法院通過的法條但是呢這個大法官就這樣子有很多呢介入否決您的看法你都沒有了解有這樣的所謂的介入或者是那個當然\n對於那個有沒有違反了憲法的基本原則大法官還是要去做審查這個是無可避免的審查是OK但是要不要介入所謂的審查跟介入這個怎麼樣去定義最後判決出來包含你看刑法他有死刑剛剛我們講刑法有死刑可是大法官他怎麼可以他這個\n解釋出來以後他要一致決這個就違反啊您剛剛也講啊沒有 我的意思是說我要講的就是說其實如果是法治國原則的話各個領域都必須要受到拘束本席覺得您對司法遷移似乎沒有很重視但是因為時間關係本席要進入我們今天第三個本席要跟您請教也要聽您的意見\n就是您應該了解什麼是麥卡錫主義麥卡錫主義有聽過有聽過不熟悉嗎請說就是像幾百年前的中世紀就是所謂的獵巫現象您了解嗎\n請問委員要問的是就是好比如說幾百年前的中世紀人們呢因為這個無知或是恐懼點燃了這個獵巫的火把那也就是說對於很多的事情沒有任何的證據然後就隨便的栽贓或隨便的入罪所以我們今年啊\n所以台灣今年我們114年台灣社會現在正陷入一種麥卡錫主義的陰影您的看法呢你還是不知道我不是不知道我是要請問一下委員指的是什麼嗎\n說陷入這樣的陰影指的是什麼樣的事件或者是針對什麼樣的事情麥卡錫主義我花一點時間是在50年代我不是說這個主義我是說我原想要問說目前社會上所以你知道麥卡錫主義了了解現在社會上對於很多這個立場不同的人比如說現在我們的社會\n有很多的民代媒體甚至國安單位或者是匿名帳號對於人民或政黨進行無證據的指控甚至指控為什麼共諜紅色滲透共產黨中共同路人這種指控讓台灣陷入一種麥卡錫主義的意念您不知道嗎\n所以我原想要問的是什麼那對於這樣的麥卡錫主義現象您的看法是不是確實存在這樣的一個現象它是一個事實問題啊所以我沒有辦法去做回答\n現在很多啊 社會上好 那本席具體的來問好了如果有公權力或是輿論的勢力對異議者進行無證據的政治標籤和懲罰是否構成了對基本權的侵害我這樣問抽象的問題當然會構成那具體的案例是不是好 譬如說 我再具體一點\n沒有任何證據可能這個有些人他只是出席某些場合見了某些人然後就被貼標籤或指責說是舔共是中共同路人是共產黨你覺得這樣是不是侵犯了所謂基本權對當事人\n委員問的這些問題其實都是一個假設性的問題沒有假設性 現在都發生 您很少看一些媒體或輿論嗎不是 我的意思是說 它到底是確實的情節是什麼那這個人其實要看到具體的案例這樣子無證據的指控 這樣的行為是否違憲是否有侵害基本權\n如果照委員講的所謂無證據的指控那他當然是有可能侵害了他的權利是就是這樣但是到底現在都這樣怎麼樣的情況這個我們當然就是要個案來認定這個是作為法官沒有辦法去回答這樣算不算那樣算不算我要有具體的案例看到相關的事證但現在您沒辦法判定但剛剛您已經回答了以這種情況\n譬如說我們的憲法我們是保障我們的民眾思想包括言論各方面的自由那甚至剛剛本席說的沒有任何的證據隨便看到出席某些場合他就直接指控而且就貼標籤而且大肆的撻伐這個應該就危害了整個的基本權也是違憲的行為吧\n我還有時間委員是要回答嗎\n因為抽象的問題如果照那個構成要件符合當然是但是具體的情況是怎麼樣我沒有辦法回答這樣子也就是說如果他真的是無故的去做這樣假設去個中國大陸回來就被貼為舔共或者是共諜或是紅色滲透這樣的指控是不是就是違憲好\n謝謝許新委員也謝謝被提名的兩位相看兩無言\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.343 --> 00:21.253\n請登記第七位徐欣怡委員請詢問謝謝主席本席請證法官麻煩再請被提名的證法官請說明\n\n00:32.540 --> 00:57.010\n政法官您好委員好您被總統提名為中華民國的大法官本席相信這個是身為法律人的榮耀本席也看過您的自傳還有相關的學經歷本席也對於您過去的專業學經歷深表敬佩今天我們會站在這裡\n\n00:57.981 --> 01:17.768\n主要就是為了我們要替人民尋找值得信賴的民主憲政忠誠的守護者我想您也了解大法官他不只是法條的解釋者他更是民主憲政的守護者防火牆所以\n\n01:18.905 --> 01:37.191\n我想今天希望您能夠放開心胸把握機會在這裡非常坦誠而且明確的來回答以下本席有三大重點的議題要請您向大眾來表達今天您要\n\n01:39.568 --> 02:05.840\n在這裡向大家證明您是值得託付的也是會守護我們民主憲政的大法官首先本席想跟您請教現在台灣社會對於重大暴力犯罪仍然有很強烈的判死的情緒民調也顯示有八成以上的民眾支持死刑\n\n02:06.943 --> 02:19.331\n那本席就想請教您對於死刑制度的基本立場是廢死還是保留就這個問題首先我想要講的是\n\n02:20.802 --> 02:41.328\n法官個人對於死刑純廢的主觀想法並不重要因為憲法的解釋是要依據客觀存在的價值體系法官不會因為他個人價值的偏好去取代憲法的價值所以死刑要不要廢除的這件事情\n\n02:42.526 --> 02:59.730\n他其實是問題是說大法官可不可能經由憲法的解釋去廢除死刑應該是這樣的一個問題那就這個問題也就是說從憲法的目前憲法建構的價值體系裡面死刑是不是合憲還是違憲那就這個問題來講\n\n03:03.407 --> 03:19.521\n我的結論應該就是不管是從就是說113憲判8號他從生命權的保障去著眼或者是其他大法官他從國家刑法權手段的這個憲法保留事項去\n\n03:20.714 --> 03:49.713\n探討目前來講就是死刑作為國家刑罰權的手段的這一點是沒有違憲的那在沒有違憲的前提之下要不要廢除死刑那我覺得這個是民主程序要去解決的因為您剛剛提到了我們一一三年憲判制第八號的判決所以我們特別把它設定的七項程序保障列出來我想您很熟悉\n\n03:50.413 --> 04:19.352\n那所以本席在這邊要接著追問因為剛剛您也有提到我們這七項裡面前六項實務上多已逐步落實那部分已透過這個法服制度或內部改革在進行所以您是否認為這六項就前面六項的程序保障已經足以對被告實質具有公平的訴訟權利保障請您檢答這個部分是不是這前面六項就夠了\n\n04:22.394 --> 04:42.524\n我要講的就是說目前實務上確實已經在做這六項所以這六項就足夠了那這第七項您覺得它是可能辦得到的嗎要一致決各級法院合議庭一致決那您支持或反對這個一致決的設計\n\n04:45.089 --> 04:55.881\n這個我覺得是一個程序上的問題就是說從我這第一個第一個我想就問您是非題這個一致決您支持或反對\n\n04:57.619 --> 05:23.880\n就是這第七項的要各級法院合議庭須一致決妳認同嗎妳認同要一致決嗎他的前提我覺得就有商榷的餘地啦也就是說從程序上的觀點做不到嘛對不對一致決是不可能的是不是可能這個都不是我們說了算你要他每一審所有法官都判死\n\n05:24.600 --> 05:35.775\n那这个是几乎是不可能好没关系虽然您说这个是不是可能的你无法来这个回答那所以您支持这个一致绝的设计吗\n\n05:36.735 --> 06:01.936\n我的我的問題是說他有一個前提問題我覺得他是關於那個刑法是不是就有死刑這件實體法規定是不是合憲的一個申請其實適不適合納入那個程序法的合憲性要件這個我覺得是值得商榷的那尤其是不是刑法他本來就規定有死刑\n\n06:02.596 --> 06:26.178\n不是我的意思是說是不是需要一字決他才合憲這樣的論述是有一點點需要討論的而且一字決這件事情是現在我們的法院組織法跟刑事訴訟法都沒有的那大法官提出這樣的一個可能大家會覺得很突兀主要是因為在整個辯論的過程當中他也沒有\n\n06:26.658 --> 06:49.149\n就是說大家並沒有聚焦在這個地方所以可能大家都沒有呈現這個焦點以至於判決出來了之後大家就會覺得這個部分是沒有受到就是比較充分的辯論跟討論那所以如果您當年當年您就在憲法法庭你會支持這種結果嗎\n\n06:52.011 --> 07:11.337\n這個我沒有辦法回答假設性的問題妳還是可以坦誠一點回答因為大家也在看妳的態度還有立場我剛剛的那個回答其實已經有就是說就是審判的範圍跟程序的保障這個部分是需要去討論的\n\n07:12.737 --> 07:32.554\n我們的這個憲法不能不該偷偷改變我們社會對死刑的共識所以本席在這裡呢本席也表達我們本席的立場很清楚就是台灣現在應該保留死刑那這不僅是法律問題這更是社會正義跟民意的交匯點\n\n07:33.835 --> 07:57.706\n我們社會上有超過八成以上的民眾不贊成實質廢死八成以上因為很多人擔心如果一旦我們國家的最高刑法死刑廢除了治安將惡化而惡犯無所畏懼所以我們不能讓法律它成為冰冷的文字忽略了民眾的恐懼與憤怒\n\n07:59.126 --> 08:17.574\n那也有人說這個廢除死刑是文明進步的象徵但是本席更相信真正的文明進步是既能懲治邪惡讓惡徒畏懼也能夠保護好人防止無辜的蒙冤您認同嗎\n\n08:19.434 --> 08:32.752\n我目前也認為就目前我們的整體社會秩序跟民意還沒有達到廢除死刑的共識而且我也認為就是說它的前提應該是\n\n08:34.674 --> 08:36.956\n好謝謝您接著本席要進入第二題第二題是\n\n09:00.288 --> 09:18.353\n有關司法遷移在實施憲政體制而且賦予法院司法審查權的國家像美國還有很多先進的民主國家司法遷移已經成為許多法官奉行的司法理念\n\n09:19.642 --> 09:40.970\n您應該知道司法遷移吧我想您的法學素養也是非常好的所以本席第一個想問的就是說司法遷移對您而言是什麼這個大概就是司法自治吧也就是我們就是依法審判然後再具體司法遷移只是一個自治嗎\n\n09:42.537 --> 10:07.668\n就是他在面對除了是依法審判之外在面對一些其他權力衝突的時候在什麼時候介入他必須要持有的態度那所以像在當代民主社會中立法者他是代表人民的意志我們是民主憲政的國家\n\n10:09.915 --> 10:36.964\n經過政黨政治在國會的討論協商整個民主程序形成的法律這樣多元的整合是整個代議政治的基石所以請問當法律的核限性受到挑戰時大法官是否應該謹慎的介入那立法裁量您認為違憲審查的最低介入門檻界限是什麼\n\n10:39.970 --> 10:52.061\n這個問題很抽象可以請委員再具體一點嗎其實很簡單就是立法院是我們中華民國最高的立法機關立法院通過的法案\n\n10:53.792 --> 11:13.824\n司法院他應該不是立法院的這個上級機關所以對於立法通過的這樣的一個法案那大法官介入您覺得這個最低介入門檻是什麼可以任意介入嗎還是應該多謹慎的介入\n\n11:14.680 --> 11:30.951\n這個部分我想我們向來的那個司法院的釋字的解釋先例他有去闡釋這個界線他有什麼他有去闡釋那個的界線也就是說原則上他的那個程序的審查\n\n11:32.233 --> 11:50.629\n就是它的程序審查它通常它就有一個比較寬鬆就是有一個標準在那實體的內容的話當然就要看有沒有抵觸到憲法的基本原則我本席就在跟您討論這個我們也觀察到很多您剛剛講的解釋文像四字204號228號477號\n\n11:54.392 --> 12:21.768\n有太多過去大法官解釋他都再三的強調一件事立法裁量是憲法賦予立法機關的自由領域可是我們觀察到現在近來市縣機關的憲法法庭有越來越嚴格的審查密度以及越來越侵入立法裁量權範圍的趨勢所以這一個部分\n\n12:22.881 --> 12:46.963\n本席想表達的就是說我們的法官大法官們其實都是學有專精這個法學素養非常好但是也是屬於學歷優可是背景純粹單一都是法學出身同質性高但是立法院是來自全國民眾的名義\n\n12:48.644 --> 13:09.055\n113席的立委是帶著不同區域的民眾的名義來到立法院包含不同的領域教育經濟不同的族群這樣的一個名義來到立法院有等於說從我們整個我們國家的我們從社會的\n\n13:11.255 --> 13:29.980\n我們從山邊到海邊從本島到離島我們這113席的立委他是代表全國的民意在這裡制定出來的法令法條這個我們大法官可以任意的這樣子介入嗎\n\n13:31.360 --> 13:48.904\n您的看法委員如果講任意當然就不行那是不是這個司法遷移是不是應該謹慎世界各國還有過去很多的大法官都是這樣的一個態度所以本席要請你表達您針對司法遷移您的態度我的態度\n\n13:53.553 --> 14:18.412\n所以就是剛才講的那對於這個過去對於這個立法院通過的法條但是呢這個大法官就這樣子有很多呢介入否決您的看法你都沒有了解有這樣的所謂的介入或者是那個當然\n\n14:20.151 --> 14:47.162\n對於那個有沒有違反了憲法的基本原則大法官還是要去做審查這個是無可避免的審查是OK但是要不要介入所謂的審查跟介入這個怎麼樣去定義最後判決出來包含你看刑法他有死刑剛剛我們講刑法有死刑可是大法官他怎麼可以他這個\n\n14:49.335 --> 15:17.975\n解釋出來以後他要一致決這個就違反啊您剛剛也講啊沒有我的意思是說我要講的就是說其實如果是法治國原則的話各個領域都必須要受到拘束本席覺得您對司法遷移似乎沒有很重視但是因為時間關係本席要進入我們今天第三個本席要跟您請教也要聽您的意見\n\n15:19.383 --> 15:39.126\n就是您應該了解什麼是麥卡錫主義麥卡錫主義有聽過有聽過不熟悉嗎請說就是像幾百年前的中世紀就是所謂的獵巫現象您了解嗎\n\n15:41.520 --> 16:08.522\n請問委員要問的是就是好比如說幾百年前的中世紀人們呢因為這個無知或是恐懼點燃了這個獵巫的火把那也就是說對於很多的事情沒有任何的證據然後就隨便的栽贓或隨便的入罪所以我們今年啊\n\n16:09.443 --> 16:19.394\n所以台灣今年我們114年台灣社會現在正陷入一種麥卡錫主義的陰影您的看法呢你還是不知道我不是不知道我是要請問一下委員指的是什麼嗎\n\n16:30.156 --> 16:57.779\n說陷入這樣的陰影指的是什麼樣的事件或者是針對什麼樣的事情麥卡錫主義我花一點時間是在50年代我不是說這個主義我是說我原想要問說目前社會上所以你知道麥卡錫主義了了解現在社會上對於很多這個立場不同的人比如說現在我們的社會\n\n16:59.827 --> 17:25.997\n有很多的民代媒體甚至國安單位或者是匿名帳號對於人民或政黨進行無證據的指控甚至指控為什麼共諜紅色滲透共產黨中共同路人這種指控讓台灣陷入一種麥卡錫主義的意念您不知道嗎\n\n17:31.363 --> 17:49.196\n所以我原想要問的是什麼那對於這樣的麥卡錫主義現象您的看法是不是確實存在這樣的一個現象它是一個事實問題啊所以我沒有辦法去做回答\n\n17:51.672 --> 18:12.491\n現在很多啊社會上好那本席具體的來問好了如果有公權力或是輿論的勢力對異議者進行無證據的政治標籤和懲罰是否構成了對基本權的侵害我這樣問抽象的問題當然會構成那具體的案例是不是好譬如說我再具體一點\n\n18:15.111 --> 18:32.159\n沒有任何證據可能這個有些人他只是出席某些場合見了某些人然後就被貼標籤或指責說是舔共是中共同路人是共產黨你覺得這樣是不是侵犯了所謂基本權對當事人\n\n18:35.851 --> 18:58.808\n委員問的這些問題其實都是一個假設性的問題沒有假設性現在都發生您很少看一些媒體或輿論嗎不是我的意思是說它到底是確實的情節是什麼那這個人其實要看到具體的案例這樣子無證據的指控這樣的行為是否違憲是否有侵害基本權\n\n19:00.814 --> 19:28.808\n如果照委員講的所謂無證據的指控那他當然是有可能侵害了他的權利是就是這樣但是到底現在都這樣怎麼樣的情況這個我們當然就是要個案來認定這個是作為法官沒有辦法去回答這樣算不算那樣算不算我要有具體的案例看到相關的事證但現在您沒辦法判定但剛剛您已經回答了以這種情況\n\n19:30.609 --> 19:57.143\n譬如說我們的憲法我們是保障我們的民眾思想包括言論各方面的自由那甚至剛剛本席說的沒有任何的證據隨便看到出席某些場合他就直接指控而且就貼標籤而且大肆的撻伐這個應該就危害了整個的基本權也是違憲的行為吧\n\n20:03.638 --> 20:08.888\n我還有時間委員是要回答嗎\n\n20:11.172 --> 20:32.726\n因為抽象的問題如果照那個構成要件符合當然是但是具體的情況是怎麼樣我沒有辦法回答這樣子也就是說如果他真的是無故的去做這樣假設去個中國大陸回來就被貼為舔共或者是共諜或是紅色滲透這樣的指控是不是就是違憲好\n\n20:37.137 --> 20:40.712\n謝謝許新委員也謝謝被提名的兩位相看兩無言\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.343,"end":21.253,"text":"請登記第七位徐欣怡委員請詢問謝謝主席 本席請證法官麻煩再請 被提名的證法官請說明"},{"start":32.54,"end":57.01,"text":"政法官您好委員好您被總統提名為中華民國的大法官本席相信這個是身為法律人的榮耀本席也看過您的自傳還有相關的學經歷本席也對於您過去的專業學經歷深表敬佩今天我們會站在這裡"},{"start":57.981,"end":77.768,"text":"主要就是為了我們要替人民尋找值得信賴的民主憲政忠誠的守護者我想您也了解大法官他不只是法條的解釋者他更是民主憲政的守護者防火牆所以"},{"start":78.905,"end":97.191,"text":"我想今天希望您能夠放開心胸把握機會在這裡非常坦誠而且明確的來回答以下本席有三大重點的議題要請您向大眾來表達今天您要"},{"start":99.568,"end":125.84,"text":"在這裡向大家證明您是值得託付的也是會守護我們民主憲政的大法官首先本席想跟您請教現在台灣社會對於重大暴力犯罪仍然有很強烈的判死的情緒民調也顯示有八成以上的民眾支持死刑"},{"start":126.943,"end":139.331,"text":"那本席就想請教您對於死刑制度的基本立場是廢死還是保留就這個問題首先我想要講的是"},{"start":140.802,"end":161.328,"text":"法官個人對於死刑純廢的主觀想法並不重要因為憲法的解釋是要依據客觀存在的價值體系法官不會因為他個人價值的偏好去取代憲法的價值所以死刑要不要廢除的這件事情"},{"start":162.526,"end":179.73,"text":"他其實是問題是說大法官可不可能經由憲法的解釋去廢除死刑應該是這樣的一個問題那就這個問題也就是說從憲法的目前憲法建構的價值體系裡面死刑是不是合憲還是違憲那就這個問題來講"},{"start":183.407,"end":199.521,"text":"我的結論應該就是不管是從就是說113憲判8號他從生命權的保障去著眼或者是其他大法官他從國家刑法權手段的這個憲法保留事項去"},{"start":200.714,"end":229.713,"text":"探討目前來講就是死刑作為國家刑罰權的手段的這一點是沒有違憲的那在沒有違憲的前提之下要不要廢除死刑那我覺得這個是民主程序要去解決的因為您剛剛提到了我們一一三年憲判制第八號的判決所以我們特別把它設定的七項程序保障列出來我想您很熟悉"},{"start":230.413,"end":259.352,"text":"那所以本席在這邊要接著追問因為剛剛您也有提到我們這七項裡面前六項實務上多已逐步落實那部分已透過這個法服制度或內部改革在進行所以您是否認為這六項就前面六項的程序保障已經足以對被告實質具有公平的訴訟權利保障請您檢答這個部分是不是這前面六項就夠了"},{"start":262.394,"end":282.524,"text":"我要講的就是說目前實務上確實已經在做這六項所以這六項就足夠了那這第七項您覺得它是可能辦得到的嗎要一致決各級法院合議庭一致決那您支持或反對這個一致決的設計"},{"start":285.089,"end":295.881,"text":"這個我覺得是一個程序上的問題就是說從我這第一個第一個我想就問您是非題這個一致決您支持或反對"},{"start":297.619,"end":323.88,"text":"就是這第七項的 要各級法院合議庭須一致決妳認同嗎 妳認同要一致決嗎他的前提 我覺得就有商榷的餘地啦也就是說從程序上的觀點做不到嘛 對不對 一致決是不可能的是不是可能 這個都不是我們說了算你要他每一審所有法官都判死"},{"start":324.6,"end":335.775,"text":"那这个是几乎是不可能好 没关系虽然您说这个是不是可能的你无法来这个回答那所以您支持这个一致绝的设计吗"},{"start":336.735,"end":361.936,"text":"我的我的問題是說他有一個前提問題我覺得他是關於那個刑法是不是就有死刑這件實體法規定是不是合憲的一個申請其實適不適合納入那個程序法的合憲性要件這個我覺得是值得商榷的那尤其是不是刑法他本來就規定有死刑"},{"start":362.596,"end":386.178,"text":"不是我的意思是說是不是需要一字決他才合憲這樣的論述是有一點點需要討論的而且一字決這件事情是現在我們的法院組織法跟刑事訴訟法都沒有的那大法官提出這樣的一個可能大家會覺得很突兀主要是因為在整個辯論的過程當中他也沒有"},{"start":386.658,"end":409.149,"text":"就是說大家並沒有聚焦在這個地方所以可能大家都沒有呈現這個焦點以至於判決出來了之後大家就會覺得這個部分是沒有受到就是比較充分的辯論跟討論那所以如果您當年當年您就在憲法法庭你會支持這種結果嗎"},{"start":412.011,"end":431.337,"text":"這個我沒有辦法回答假設性的問題妳還是可以坦誠一點回答因為大家也在看妳的態度還有立場我剛剛的那個回答其實已經有就是說就是審判的範圍跟程序的保障這個部分是需要去討論的"},{"start":432.737,"end":452.554,"text":"我們的這個憲法不能不該偷偷改變我們社會對死刑的共識所以本席在這裡呢本席也表達我們本席的立場很清楚就是台灣現在應該保留死刑那這不僅是法律問題這更是社會正義跟民意的交匯點"},{"start":453.835,"end":477.706,"text":"我們社會上有超過八成以上的民眾不贊成實質廢死 八成以上因為很多人擔心如果一旦我們國家的最高刑法死刑廢除了治安將惡化 而惡犯無所畏懼所以我們不能讓法律它成為冰冷的文字忽略了民眾的恐懼與憤怒"},{"start":479.126,"end":497.574,"text":"那也有人說這個廢除死刑是文明進步的象徵但是本席更相信真正的文明進步是既能懲治邪惡讓惡徒畏懼也能夠保護好人防止無辜的蒙冤您認同嗎"},{"start":499.434,"end":512.752,"text":"我目前也認為就目前我們的整體社會秩序跟民意還沒有達到廢除死刑的共識而且我也認為就是說它的前提應該是"},{"start":514.674,"end":516.956,"text":"好 謝謝您接著本席要進入第二題第二題是"},{"start":540.288,"end":558.353,"text":"有關司法遷移在實施憲政體制而且賦予法院司法審查權的國家像美國還有很多先進的民主國家司法遷移已經成為許多法官奉行的司法理念"},{"start":559.642,"end":580.97,"text":"您應該知道司法遷移吧我想您的法學素養也是非常好的所以本席第一個想問的就是說司法遷移對您而言是什麼這個大概就是司法自治吧也就是我們就是依法審判然後再具體司法遷移只是一個自治嗎"},{"start":582.537,"end":607.668,"text":"就是他在面對 除了是依法審判之外在面對一些其他權力衝突的時候在什麼時候介入他必須要持有的態度那所以像在當代民主社會中立法者他是代表人民的意志我們是民主憲政的國家"},{"start":609.915,"end":636.964,"text":"經過政黨政治在國會的討論協商整個民主程序形成的法律這樣多元的整合是整個代議政治的基石所以請問當法律的核限性受到挑戰時大法官是否應該謹慎的介入那立法裁量您認為違憲審查的最低介入門檻界限是什麼"},{"start":639.97,"end":652.061,"text":"這個問題很抽象可以請委員再具體一點嗎其實很簡單就是立法院是我們中華民國最高的立法機關立法院通過的法案"},{"start":653.792,"end":673.824,"text":"司法院他應該不是立法院的這個上級機關所以對於立法通過的這樣的一個法案那大法官介入您覺得這個最低介入門檻是什麼可以任意介入嗎還是應該多謹慎的介入"},{"start":674.68,"end":690.951,"text":"這個部分我想我們向來的那個司法院的釋字的解釋先例他有去闡釋這個界線他有什麼他有去闡釋那個的界線也就是說原則上他的那個程序的審查"},{"start":692.233,"end":710.629,"text":"就是它的程序審查它通常它就有一個比較寬鬆就是有一個標準在那實體的內容的話當然就要看有沒有抵觸到憲法的基本原則我本席就在跟您討論這個我們也觀察到很多您剛剛講的解釋文像四字204號228號477號"},{"start":714.392,"end":741.768,"text":"有太多過去大法官解釋他都再三的強調一件事立法裁量是憲法賦予立法機關的自由領域可是我們觀察到現在近來市縣機關的憲法法庭有越來越嚴格的審查密度以及越來越侵入立法裁量權範圍的趨勢所以這一個部分"},{"start":742.881,"end":766.963,"text":"本席想表達的就是說我們的法官 大法官們其實都是學有專精 這個法學素養非常好但是也是屬於學歷優 可是背景純粹單一都是法學出身 同質性高但是立法院是來自全國民眾的名義"},{"start":768.644,"end":789.055,"text":"113席的立委是帶著不同區域的民眾的名義來到立法院包含不同的領域教育經濟不同的族群這樣的一個名義來到立法院有等於說從我們整個我們國家的我們從社會的"},{"start":791.255,"end":809.98,"text":"我們從山邊到海邊從本島到離島我們這113席的立委他是代表全國的民意在這裡制定出來的法令法條這個我們大法官可以任意的這樣子介入嗎"},{"start":811.36,"end":828.904,"text":"您的看法委員如果講任意當然就不行那是不是這個司法遷移是不是應該謹慎世界各國還有過去很多的大法官都是這樣的一個態度所以本席要請你表達您針對司法遷移您的態度我的態度"},{"start":833.553,"end":858.412,"text":"所以就是剛才講的那對於這個過去對於這個立法院通過的法條但是呢這個大法官就這樣子有很多呢介入否決您的看法你都沒有了解有這樣的所謂的介入或者是那個當然"},{"start":860.151,"end":887.162,"text":"對於那個有沒有違反了憲法的基本原則大法官還是要去做審查這個是無可避免的審查是OK但是要不要介入所謂的審查跟介入這個怎麼樣去定義最後判決出來包含你看刑法他有死刑剛剛我們講刑法有死刑可是大法官他怎麼可以他這個"},{"start":889.335,"end":917.975,"text":"解釋出來以後他要一致決這個就違反啊您剛剛也講啊沒有 我的意思是說我要講的就是說其實如果是法治國原則的話各個領域都必須要受到拘束本席覺得您對司法遷移似乎沒有很重視但是因為時間關係本席要進入我們今天第三個本席要跟您請教也要聽您的意見"},{"start":919.383,"end":939.126,"text":"就是您應該了解什麼是麥卡錫主義麥卡錫主義有聽過有聽過不熟悉嗎請說就是像幾百年前的中世紀就是所謂的獵巫現象您了解嗎"},{"start":941.52,"end":968.522,"text":"請問委員要問的是就是好比如說幾百年前的中世紀人們呢因為這個無知或是恐懼點燃了這個獵巫的火把那也就是說對於很多的事情沒有任何的證據然後就隨便的栽贓或隨便的入罪所以我們今年啊"},{"start":969.443,"end":979.394,"text":"所以台灣今年我們114年台灣社會現在正陷入一種麥卡錫主義的陰影您的看法呢你還是不知道我不是不知道我是要請問一下委員指的是什麼嗎"},{"start":990.156,"end":1017.779,"text":"說陷入這樣的陰影指的是什麼樣的事件或者是針對什麼樣的事情麥卡錫主義我花一點時間是在50年代我不是說這個主義我是說我原想要問說目前社會上所以你知道麥卡錫主義了了解現在社會上對於很多這個立場不同的人比如說現在我們的社會"},{"start":1019.827,"end":1045.997,"text":"有很多的民代媒體甚至國安單位或者是匿名帳號對於人民或政黨進行無證據的指控甚至指控為什麼共諜紅色滲透共產黨中共同路人這種指控讓台灣陷入一種麥卡錫主義的意念您不知道嗎"},{"start":1051.363,"end":1069.196,"text":"所以我原想要問的是什麼那對於這樣的麥卡錫主義現象您的看法是不是確實存在這樣的一個現象它是一個事實問題啊所以我沒有辦法去做回答"},{"start":1071.672,"end":1092.491,"text":"現在很多啊 社會上好 那本席具體的來問好了如果有公權力或是輿論的勢力對異議者進行無證據的政治標籤和懲罰是否構成了對基本權的侵害我這樣問抽象的問題當然會構成那具體的案例是不是好 譬如說 我再具體一點"},{"start":1095.111,"end":1112.159,"text":"沒有任何證據可能這個有些人他只是出席某些場合見了某些人然後就被貼標籤或指責說是舔共是中共同路人是共產黨你覺得這樣是不是侵犯了所謂基本權對當事人"},{"start":1115.851,"end":1138.808,"text":"委員問的這些問題其實都是一個假設性的問題沒有假設性 現在都發生 您很少看一些媒體或輿論嗎不是 我的意思是說 它到底是確實的情節是什麼那這個人其實要看到具體的案例這樣子無證據的指控 這樣的行為是否違憲是否有侵害基本權"},{"start":1140.814,"end":1168.808,"text":"如果照委員講的所謂無證據的指控那他當然是有可能侵害了他的權利是就是這樣但是到底現在都這樣怎麼樣的情況這個我們當然就是要個案來認定這個是作為法官沒有辦法去回答這樣算不算那樣算不算我要有具體的案例看到相關的事證但現在您沒辦法判定但剛剛您已經回答了以這種情況"},{"start":1170.609,"end":1197.143,"text":"譬如說我們的憲法我們是保障我們的民眾思想包括言論各方面的自由那甚至剛剛本席說的沒有任何的證據隨便看到出席某些場合他就直接指控而且就貼標籤而且大肆的撻伐這個應該就危害了整個的基本權也是違憲的行為吧"},{"start":1203.638,"end":1208.888,"text":"我還有時間委員是要回答嗎"},{"start":1211.172,"end":1232.726,"text":"因為抽象的問題如果照那個構成要件符合當然是但是具體的情況是怎麼樣我沒有辦法回答這樣子也就是說如果他真的是無故的去做這樣假設去個中國大陸回來就被貼為舔共或者是共諜或是紅色滲透這樣的指控是不是就是違憲好"},{"start":1237.137,"end":1240.712,"text":"謝謝許新委員也謝謝被提名的兩位相看兩無言"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":305,"blocks":[["徐委員欣瑩：（16時16分）謝謝主席，本席請鄭法官。"],["主席：麻煩再請被提名人鄭法官，請說明。"],["徐委員欣瑩：鄭法官您好。"],["鄭純惠被提名人：委員好。"],["徐委員欣瑩：您被總統提名為中華民國的大法官，本席相信這是身為法律人的榮耀，本席也看過您的自傳還有相關的學經歷，本席也對於您過去的專業、學經歷深表敬佩。今天我們會站在這裡，主要就是為了要替人民尋找值得信賴的、民主憲政忠誠的守護者，我想您也了解大法官不只是法條的解釋者，他更是民主憲政的守護者、防火牆！今天希望您能夠放開心胸、把握機會、在這裡非常坦誠而且明確的回答，以下本席有三大重點議題要請您向大眾來表達，今天您要在這裡向大家證明您是值得託付的、也是會守護民主憲政的大法官！","首先本席想跟您請教，現在臺灣社會對於重大暴力犯罪仍然有很強烈的判死情緒，民調也顯示有八成以上民眾支持死刑，因此本席就想請教您，對於死刑制度的基本立場是廢死還是保留？"],["鄭純惠被提名人：就這個問題，首先我想要講的是，法官個人對於死刑存廢的主觀想法並不重要，因為憲法解釋是要依據客觀存在的價值體系，法官不會因為個人價值的偏好去取代憲法的價值，所以死刑要不要廢除這件事情的問題其實是，大法官可不可能經由憲法的解釋去廢除死刑？應該是這樣的一個問題。","就這個問題來說，在目前憲法建構的價值體系裡面，死刑是不是合憲還是違憲？就這個問題來講，我的結論應該就是，不管是113年憲判字第8號判決從生命權的保障去著眼，或者是其他大法官從國家刑罰權手段的憲法保留事項去探討，目前來講，死刑作為國家刑罰權的手段，這一點是沒有違憲的，在沒有違憲的前提之下，要不要廢除死刑，我覺得這個是民主程序要去解決的。"],["徐委員欣瑩：好，因為您剛剛提到113年憲判字第8號的判決，所以我們特別把它設定的七項程序保障列出來，我想您很熟悉，本席在這邊要接著追問，因為剛剛您也有提到，在這七項裡面，前六項實務上都已逐步落實，部分已透過法扶制度或內部改革在進行，所以您是否認為前面六項的程序保障已經足以讓被告實質具有公平的訴訟權利保障？請您簡答這個部分，是不是前面六項就夠了？不要看第七項。"],["鄭純惠被提名人：我要講的是，目前實務上確實已經在做這六項。"],["徐委員欣瑩：對，所以這六項就足夠了，您覺得第七項是可能辦得到的嗎？要一致決，各級法院合議庭一致決，那您是支持或反對這個一致決的設計？"],["鄭純惠被提名人：我覺得這是一個程序上的問題，就是從我……"],["徐委員欣瑩：第一個，我想就問您是非題，這個一致決，您是支持或反對？就是這第七項，各級法院合議庭須一致決。"],["鄭純惠被提名人：我的意思是說……"],["徐委員欣瑩：你認同嗎？你認同要一致決嗎？"],["鄭純惠被提名人：它的前提，我覺得就有商榷的餘地，也就是說，從程序上的觀點，這件案子是實體法的……"],["徐委員欣瑩：做不到嘛，對不對？一致決是不可能的！"],["鄭純惠被提名人：是不是可能，這個都不是我們說了算。"],["徐委員欣瑩：你要他每一審所有法官都判死，這個幾乎是不可能，好，沒關係，雖然您說這個是否可能你無法來回答，所以您支持這個一致決的設計嗎？"],["鄭純惠被提名人：我的問題是說……"],["徐委員欣瑩：支持嗎？"],["鄭純惠被提名人：它有一個前提問題，我覺得它是關於刑法是不是……就是有死刑這件實體法規定是不是合憲的聲請，適不適合納入程序法的合憲性要件，這個我覺得是值得商榷的，尤其是……"],["徐委員欣瑩：不是，刑法本來就規定有死刑了。"],["鄭純惠被提名人：不是，我的意思是說，是不是需要一致決它才合憲，這樣的論述是有一點點需要討論的。"],["徐委員欣瑩：好。"],["鄭純惠被提名人：而且一致決這件事情，是現在我們的法院組織法跟刑事訴訟法都沒有的，大法官提出這樣的一個，可能大家會覺得很突兀，主要是因為在整個辯論的過程當中，它也沒有……就是大家並沒有聚焦在這個地方，所以可能大家都沒有呈現這個焦點，以致於判決出來了之後，大家就會覺得這個部分是沒有受到比較充分的辯論跟討論。"],["徐委員欣瑩：對，如果您當年就在憲法法庭，您會支持這種結果嗎？"],["鄭純惠被提名人：關於這個，我沒有辦法回答假設性的問題。"],["徐委員欣瑩：您還是可以坦誠一點回答，因為大家也在看您的態度還有立場。"],["鄭純惠被提名人：我剛剛的那個回答，其實已經……"],["徐委員欣瑩：有、有、有。"],["鄭純惠被提名人：就是審判的範圍跟程序的保障這個部分是需要去討論的。"],["徐委員欣瑩：我們的憲法不該偷偷改變我們社會對死刑的共識，所以本席在這裡也表達，本席的立場很清楚，就是臺灣現在應該保留死刑，這不僅是法律問題，這更是社會正義跟民意的交會點，我們社會上有超過八成以上的民眾不贊成實質廢死，有八成以上，很多人擔心一旦我們國家的最高刑罰死刑廢除了，治安將惡化，而惡犯無所畏懼，所以我們不能讓法律成為冰冷的文字，忽略了民眾的恐懼與憤怒，也有人說廢除死刑是文明進步的象徵，但是本席更相信真正的文明進步是既能懲治邪惡，讓惡徒畏懼，也能夠保護好人，防止無辜的蒙冤。您認同嗎？"],["鄭純惠被提名人：我認為目前我們的整體社會秩序跟民意還沒有達到廢除死刑的共識，而且我也認為其前提應該是被告跟被害人的權益都要受到尊重跟兼顧，尤其是被害人的家屬。也就是說，被害人家屬不管是不是願意原諒被告或者是拒絕原諒被告都是他的自主選擇權，我們都應該要尊重。"],["徐委員欣瑩：好，謝謝您。接著本席要進入第二題，是有關司法謙抑，在實施憲政體制且賦予法院司法審查權的國家，像美國及很多先進的民主國家，司法謙抑已經成為許多法官奉行的司法理念，您應該知道司法謙抑吧？我想您的法學素養也是非常好的，所以本席第一個想問的是，司法謙抑對您而言是什麼？"],["鄭純惠被提名人：這個大概就是司法自治，也就是我們是依法審判，然後在具體……"],["徐委員欣瑩：司法謙抑只是一個自治嗎？"],["鄭純惠被提名人：除了是依法審判之外，在面對一些其他權利衝突的時候，在什麼時候介入所必須要持有的態度。"],["徐委員欣瑩：對，像在當代民主社會中，立法者是代表人民的意志，我們是民主憲政的國家，經過政黨政治在國會的討論、協商，整個民主程序所形成的法律，這樣多元的整合是整個代議政治的基石。請問當法律的合憲性受到挑戰時，大法官是否應該謹慎介入？關於立法裁量，您認為違憲審查的最低介入門檻、界線是什麼？"],["鄭純惠被提名人：這個問題很抽象，可以請委員再具體一點嗎？"],["徐委員欣瑩：其實很簡單，立法院是中華民國最高的立法機關，立法院通過的法案，司法院應該不是立法院的上級機關，對於立法通過的法案，若大法官介入，您覺得最低介入門檻是什麼？可以任意介入嗎？還是應該多謹慎的介入？"],["鄭純惠被提名人：關於這個部分，我想向來司法院釋字的解釋先例有去闡釋這個界線，也就是說……"],["徐委員欣瑩：他有什麼？"],["鄭純惠被提名人：他有去闡釋那個的界線，也就是說，原則上他的程序審查通常有一個標準在，而實體內容的話，當然就要看有沒有牴觸到憲法的基本原則。"],["徐委員欣瑩：本席就在跟您討論這個，OK，我們也觀察到很多您剛剛講的解釋文，像釋字第204號、第228號、第477號，過去有太多大法官解釋都再三強調一件事：立法裁量是憲法賦予立法機關的自由領域，可是我們觀察到，近來釋憲機關的憲法法庭有越來越嚴格的審查密度，以及越來越侵入立法裁量權範圍的趨勢。關於這一個部分，本席想表達的是，我們的法官、大法官們其實都是學有專精，法學素養非常好，但是也是屬於學歷優，可是背景純粹單一，都是法學出身，同質性高。但是立法院是來自全國民眾的民意，113席的立委是帶著不同區域民眾的民意來到立法院，包含不同的領域，如教育、經濟，也包含不同族群的民意來到立法院，等於從整個國家、從社會的底層到頂層、從山邊到海邊、從本島到離島，我們這113席的立委是代表全國的民意在這裡，所制定出來的法令、法條，大法官可以任意的介入嗎？您的看法？"],["鄭純惠被提名人：委員如果講任意，當然就不行。"],["徐委員欣瑩：好，那這個司法謙抑是不是應該謹慎？世界各國還有過去很多的大法官，都是這樣的一個態度，所以本席要請您表達針對司法謙抑，您的態度？"],["鄭純惠被提名人：我的態度，應該就是……"],["徐委員欣瑩：就是剛才講的？"],["鄭純惠被提名人：對。"],["徐委員欣瑩：對於過去立法院通過的法條，但是大法官有很多介入、否決，您的看法？你都沒有了解有這樣的情形？"],["鄭純惠被提名人：當然，對於有沒有違反憲法的基本原則，大法官還是要去做審查，這個是無可避免的。"],["徐委員欣瑩：審查是OK，但是要不要介入？"],["鄭純惠被提名人：所謂的審查跟介入，這個怎麼樣去定義它呢？"],["徐委員欣瑩：最後判決出來，包含……你看，剛剛我們講刑法也有死刑，可是大法官怎麼可以解釋出來以後，就說它要一致決！這個就違反啊！您剛剛也講了。"],["鄭純惠被提名人：沒有，我的意思是，其實如果是法治國原則的話，各個領域都必須要受到拘束。"],["徐委員欣瑩：這樣看來本席覺得您對司法謙抑似乎沒有很重視，但是因為時間的關係，本席要進入今天第三個要跟您請教，也要聽您的意見的部分，就是您應該了解什麼是麥卡錫主義吧？"],["鄭純惠被提名人：麥卡錫主義有聽過。"],["徐委員欣瑩：有聽過，不熟悉嗎？"],["鄭純惠被提名人：請說。"],["徐委員欣瑩：像幾百年前的中世紀，就是所謂的獵巫現象，您了解嗎？"],["鄭純惠被提名人：請問委員要問的是？"],["徐委員欣瑩：譬如幾百年前的中世紀，人們因為無知或是恐懼，點燃了獵巫的火把，也就是說，對於很多的事情沒有任何的證據，然後就隨便栽贓或隨便入罪，所以今（114）年臺灣社會正陷入一種麥卡錫主義的陰影，您的看法呢？你還是不知道？"],["鄭純惠被提名人：我不是不知道，我是要請問一下……"],["徐委員欣瑩：指的是什麼嗎？"],["鄭純惠被提名人：委員說陷入這樣的陰影，指的是什麼樣的事件，或者是針對什麼樣的事情？"],["徐委員欣瑩：這樣子好了，麥卡錫主義我花一點時間說明，在50年代……"],["鄭純惠被提名人：我不是說這個主義。"],["徐委員欣瑩：好，沒關係。"],["鄭純惠被提名人：我是說委員想要問說，目前社會上……"],["徐委員欣瑩：所以你知道麥卡錫主義了，了解？"],["鄭純惠被提名人：是。"],["徐委員欣瑩：現在社會上對於很多立場不同的人，譬如說現在我們的社會有很多的民代、媒體，甚至國安單位，或者是匿名帳號，對於人民或政黨進行無證據的指控，甚至指控其為共諜、紅色滲透、共產黨、中共同路人，這種指控讓臺灣陷入一種麥卡錫主義的陰影，您不知道嗎？"],["鄭純惠被提名人：所以委員想要問的是什麼？"],["徐委員欣瑩：對於這樣的麥卡錫主義現象，您的看法？"],["鄭純惠被提名人：是不是確實存在這樣的一個現象，它是一個事實問題，所以我沒有辦法回答。"],["徐委員欣瑩：現在社會上很多啊！本席具體的來問好了，如果有公權力或是輿論的勢力，對異議者進行無證據的政治標籤和懲罰，是否構成了對基本權的侵害？我這樣問好了。"],["鄭純惠被提名人：抽象的問題當然會構成，具體的案例是不是，就要看……"],["徐委員欣瑩：好，我再具體一點，譬如沒有任何證據，可能有些人只是出席某些場合，見了某些人，然後就被貼標籤或被指責說是舔共、是中共同路人、是共產黨，你覺得這樣是不是侵犯了所謂的基本權？對當事人。"],["鄭純惠被提名人：委員問的這些問題其實都是假設性的問題。"],["徐委員欣瑩：沒有假設性，現在都發生了……您很少看一些媒體或輿論嗎？"],["鄭純惠被提名人：不是，我的意思是說，到底他確實的情節是什麼？我們其實要看到具體的案例。"],["徐委員欣瑩：這樣子無證據的指控……"],["鄭純惠被提名人：如果真的是……"],["徐委員欣瑩：這樣的行為是否違憲？是否有侵害基本權？"],["鄭純惠被提名人：如果照委員講的，所謂無證據的指控，當然是有可能侵害了他的權利，但是到底是怎麼樣的情況……"],["徐委員欣瑩：現在都這樣。"],["鄭純惠被提名人：我們當然就是要個案來認定，這個我作為法官沒有辦法去回答這樣算不算、那樣算不算，要有具體的案例，看到相關的事證才能做判斷。"],["徐委員欣瑩：對，當然現在你沒辦法判定，但是剛剛你已經回答了，以這種情況，譬如說我們的憲法是保障民眾，對不對？包括思想、言論各方面的自由，甚至剛剛本席說的，沒有任何的證據，隨便看到他出席某些場合，就直接指控，而且就貼標籤、大肆的撻伐，這應該就危害了整個基本權，也是違憲的行為吧？"],["鄭純惠被提名人：委員是要我回答嗎？"],["徐委員欣瑩：對啊！"],["鄭純惠被提名人：因為抽象的問題如果照那個構成要件符合當然是，但是具體的情況是怎麼樣，我沒有辦法回答。也就是說，如果他真的是無故的去做，當然會……"],["徐委員欣瑩：很簡單，假設去個中國大陸回來就被貼為舔共，或者是共諜或是紅色滲透，這樣的指控是不是就是違憲？"],["主席：謝謝徐欣瑩委員，也謝謝被提名人，兩位相看兩無言，非常感謝。謝謝徐欣瑩委員的詢問，謝謝被提名人鄭法官的說明，謝謝，很精彩。","報告全院委員會，我們對大法官被提名人鄭純惠法官的詢答部分到此為止，謝謝被提名人列席的答詢。","現在休息10分鐘，休息之後進行對大法官被提名人林麗瑩檢察官審查事宜，現在休息。","休息（16時37分）","繼續開會（16時47分）"],["主席：報告全院委員會，現在繼續開會。","進行審查大法官被提名人林麗瑩檢察官之資格及是否適任相關事項。現在請被提名人林麗瑩檢察官說明，時間為10分鐘。"],["林麗瑩被提名人：主席、各位委員、各位女士、各位先生，大家好，我是林麗瑩。目前為臺灣高等檢察署主任檢察官，自民國111年1月起調最高檢察署辦事迄今。今天很榮幸以大法官被提名人身分前來大院接受審查。我的家庭、學歷及經歷，請詳見簡介及我的自傳。今天謹簡單重點說明並略加補充。","一、從法學院進到檢察實務職場","個人自小在公教環境成長，父親為公務員，母親是小學老師，教育向為父母所重，也因為自己個性偏愛思考、閱讀，因此求學過程較為順利。民國76年於臺大法律系畢業後，繼續在臺大法研所攻讀碩士學位。由於大學階段正面臨臺灣解嚴，不僅政治開放，法律學子也對關涉公民權利的憲法、行政法等公法領域有更寬闊視野及研究興趣，在此大環境背景下，研究所我選擇進入公法組。雖然之後職業生涯從事刑事法領域為主的檢察官工作，不過研究所階段的學習，也累積了憲法、行政法等公法的基礎。","民國79年碩士畢業當年，以交換學生至奥地利維也納大學交流，返國後短暫在剛成立沒多久的行政院大陸委員會法政處服務數月後，就進入司法官訓練所（後來改制為司法官學院）受訓。從此職涯迄今將近30年主要都是擔任各級檢察署檢察官及檢察行政的工作。","二、參與基層檢察改革，為司法改革播種","擔任一審檢察官期間，法政改革列車進入司法改革新里程。當時有感於檢察官定位屬性不明，外部又有將檢察官行政官化的趨勢，擔心檢察權行政化後易受政治干預，便和陳瑞仁等一群對檢察制度有理想的基層檢察官，共同發起設立檢察官改革協會，呼籲捍衛檢察官司法屬性，健全檢察人事制度改革、推動內部民主化、檢察一體陽光化等改革，使檢察官辦案不受來自上級或政治的干預，獲得基層檢察官及民間司改團體廣大迴響與支持。","此一檢改運動持續多年，許多改革訴求也陸續獲得法務部正面回應，在檢察一體及檢察人事法制面及政策面均做了許多修正及改革。今日的法務部檢察官人事審議委員會、票選主任檢察官、法官法關於檢察官的身分定位、檢察一體陽光化及指令權界限等規定，均為多年來檢改的具體成果。","三、赴德國在職進修時期的憲法意識啟發","歷經檢察官改革運動、88年全國司法改革會議，不僅刑事訴訟法在法治人權要求下，空前大變動，檢察制度也一直面臨挑戰，又再度喚起我研究的初衷。由於個人深感於德國法制下定位檢察官為法治國守護人的理念，強調檢察官中立、客觀義務，追訴犯罪同時必須兼顧人權保障，才是檢察制度的核心價值，為探究學理根本，個人毅然決然申請留職停薪，從88年底至92年間前往德國科隆大學進修，主要研究刑事訴訟法，特別是有關檢察官職權的內容與定位。此次赴德進修重點不在學位，而是實地深入了解德國刑事司法的全貌與實務，因此積極進行實務參訪、見習，到地方法院觀摩刑事審判審前準備工作、參審合議庭審理程序的過程，對德國刑事審判實務有更直接的體認。","當時我國尚無裁判憲法審查制度，德國的「憲法訴願」則早已深入其公民社會，而我國憲法訴訟法中的裁判憲法審查制即引介自德國的憲法訴願。幾乎每個月德國聯邦憲法法院就會有重要的裁判出現，媒體多會加以報導評論，縱然也常有憲法法院是第四審的批評，但同時也顯示該院判決不僅對司法實務，也對公民社會有深廣的影響力。特別是刑事法領域不乏關涉到個人權利的憲法訴願決定，堅強的邏輯論證背後顯露著具有生命力的人權思想及價值，也讓我深深體認民主法治的規格與深度，是國家現代化不可或缺的基石。相信我國自111年實施的憲法法庭新制也將會讓憲法意識廣泛進入臺灣公民社會。","而由於德國是歐盟、歐洲理事會的重要成員國，因此歐盟法、歐洲人權公約也成為司法實務及學術研究不可或缺的一環。縱然留德時間有限，不過四年的專心研究與實務見習，對德國刑事司法、歐盟刑事法制及歐洲人權法院有更深入的理解，也影響日後我參與國內法制作業、司法改革業務的工作。","四、留德返國後的學以致用時期","自德國留學返國後，由於對比較法制（德國刑事訴訟法、歐盟刑事法發展）有所鑽研，有助法案研擬，因此於92年返國後即奉調法務部檢察司任辦事檢察官，承辦刑事訴訟法相關業務，當時司長蔡碧玉女士給我除了檢察官工作外司法行政業務的啟蒙，個人收穫良多。在檢察司期間，適逢司法院釋字第585號的釋憲案，因此負責承辦法務部參與釋憲辯論的籌備工作，之後也曾受大法官會議之邀，參與釋字第654號（在押被告與辯護人自由溝通權）、第665號（重罪羈押條款要件）意見徵詢會議，而開始接觸釋憲程序的相關業務。","此外，由於對德國刑事法制較為熟悉，在離開法務部歸建檢察機關後，於擔任臺北地檢署主任檢察官期間，即101、102年間仍有參與法務部與德國洽簽受刑人移交協定工作，這是法務部第一件與歐洲國家簽訂的刑事司法互助協定，我國刑事判決並因此獲得德國承認，並陸續移交多位德國受刑人返回德國。","五、司法行政主管的歷練","105年1至8月間，個人從臺灣高等檢察署檢察官奉調到司法院擔任政風處長一職，時間雖短，但對司法風紀的維護與監督業務有更具體的了解與接觸；105年9月間再調任法務部綜合規劃司司長一職，主要任務為統籌全國司法改革國是會議法務部的幕僚作業，並列席司改國是會議。因此縱貫自法務部檢察司服務以來，對於近二十年刑事訴訟法相關法案以及相關修法經過多有參與並了解大部分司改政策軌跡。","個人也曾經多次參與外部學術研討會擔任報告人或與談人，除了本職檢察官工作外，仍從事刑事法的研究工作，同時也在司法官學院擔任檢察實務講座，傳承檢察實務經驗。","六、現職與挑戰一代結語","目前個人在最高檢察署辦事，除了一般非常上訴案件外，主要負責最高法院刑事大法庭言詞辯論業務，執筆大法庭言詞辯論意旨書及出庭辯論。此外，並協助法務部因應憲法法庭審理有關刑事法的憲法訴訟，除協助撰擬意見書外，並擔任訴訟代理人參與言詞陳述，我的業務，總長邢泰釗總給予充分尊重，讓我有很大的發揮空間。所以目前工作重心均為終審法律意見的研擬、辯論，以及涉關刑事法憲法爭議的研究與意見撰擬。","刑事訴訟法向來被稱為憲法的測震儀，不論是訴訟程序法規或個案裁判動輒牽動憲法基本權爭議。個人認為國家追訴犯罪的任務，與保障基本人權同為憲法誡命，如何平衡兩者，除了立法者的立法形成外，憲法法庭的大法官扮演了個人基本權的守門人。憲法訴訟法自111年初正式施行以來，憲法法庭做了多件有關刑事法案件的判決，去（113）年憲法法庭共做出11件判決，其中就有7件的系爭法律全部或部分為刑事實體法或程序法，可預見的未來將有更多涉及刑事法領域的憲法爭訟。","個人有公法研究的基礎，加上刑事法包括實體法與訴訟法的實務經驗及學術研究能力，自認對於憲法爭議更具敏感度，也有熱忱參與憲法訴訟的審判；尤其長期擔任檢察官的經驗，更能掌握國家追訴犯罪的公益與相關訴訟人權包括被告與被害人人權保障間的平衡，很期待有機會承擔起憲法及人權守護者工作的挑戰。","個人認為，大法官被賦予獨占的憲法解釋權，具有續造憲法的任務，但即便如此，大法官亦不應「高於」憲法。因大法官作為釋憲者也承擔了維持法治國秩序與功能的責任，應謹慎避免超越解釋憲法的界限，並尊重其他憲法機關的權責。如果獲得大院同意我擔任大法官職務，我將秉持以上的信念，中立客觀，並恪遵憲法，獨立審判。","謝謝各位，並請不吝指教。"],["主席：謝謝被提名人林檢察官的說明。","現在進行委員詢問。","首先請張雅琳委員詢問，蘇清泉委員請準備。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":466,"meet_id":"全院委員會-11-3-4","speakers":["韓國瑜","吳宗憲","麥玉珍","賴瑞隆","翁曉玲","賴惠員","陳菁徽","何欣純","黃珊珊","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","陳素月","林倩綺","鍾佳濱","徐欣瑩","張雅琳","蘇清泉","林憶君","林楚茵","陳永康","王美惠"],"page_start":365,"meetingDate":["2025-07-10"],"gazette_id":"1146501","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1146501_00006","1146501_00007","1146501_00008"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期第4次全院委員會會議紀錄","content":"總統咨，為司法院大法官含院長、副院長，現有缺額7名，茲依據中華民國憲法增修條文第5條規\n定，提名蔡秋明、蘇素娥、蕭文生、鄭純惠、林麗瑩、陳慈陽、詹鎮榮7位為司法院大法官，並\n以蔡秋明為院長、蘇素娥為副院長，咨請同意案","agenda_id":"1146501_00004"}}}