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\"老師呢隔天家事法庭法官也沒有進一步的裁定加害人去接受輔導處遇的計畫我認為不論是檢察官或者是法官其實都沒有實質的具體的作為認為加害人是情緒不穩定恐怕會釀成大禍的一個可能性所以呢我想請教被提名人就是在您豐富的一個檢察官的生涯裡面一定有\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"老\", \"start\": 110.725, \"end\": 111.006, \"score\": 0.858}, {\"word\": \"師\"}, {\"word\": \"呢\", \"start\": 111.006, \"end\": 111.266, \"score\": 0.978}, {\"word\": \"隔\", \"start\": 111.266, \"end\": 111.426, \"score\": 0.915}, {\"word\": \"天\", \"start\": 111.426, \"end\": 111.666, \"score\": 0.966}, {\"word\": \"家\", \"start\": 111.666, \"end\": 111.846, \"score\": 0.895}, {\"word\": \"事\", \"start\": 111.846, \"end\": 112.006, \"score\": 0.875}, {\"word\": \"法\", \"start\": 112.006, \"end\": 112.166, \"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"庭\", \"start\": 112.166, \"end\": 112.987, \"score\": 0.993}, {\"word\": \"法\", \"start\": 112.987, \"end\": 113.367, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"官\", \"start\": 113.367, \"end\": 113.608, \"score\": 0.932}, {\"word\": \"也\", \"start\": 113.608, \"end\": 113.888, \"score\": 0.949}, {\"word\": \"沒\", 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120.573, \"score\": 0.888}, {\"word\": \"其\", \"start\": 120.573, \"end\": 120.813, \"score\": 0.915}, {\"word\": \"實\"}, {\"word\": \"都\", \"start\": 120.813, \"end\": 120.973, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"沒\", \"start\": 120.973, \"end\": 121.073, \"score\": 0.8}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 121.073, \"end\": 121.714, \"score\": 0.91}, {\"word\": \"實\"}, {\"word\": \"質\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 121.714, \"end\": 121.954, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"具\", \"start\": 121.954, \"end\": 122.395, \"score\": 0.945}, {\"word\": \"體\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 122.395, \"end\": 122.595, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"作\", \"start\": 122.595, \"end\": 124.076, \"score\": 0.955}, {\"word\": \"為\"}, {\"word\": \"認\"}, {\"word\": \"為\"}, {\"word\": \"加\", \"start\": 124.076, \"end\": 124.296, \"score\": 0.974}, {\"word\": \"害\", \"start\": 124.296, \"end\": 124.556, \"score\": 0.984}, {\"word\": \"人\", \"start\": 124.556, \"end\": 124.856, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"是\", 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\"start\": 128.179, \"end\": 129.06, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"所\", \"start\": 129.06, \"end\": 129.22, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 129.22, \"end\": 129.32, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"呢\", \"start\": 129.32, \"end\": 130.801, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 130.801, \"end\": 130.861, \"score\": 0.666}, {\"word\": \"想\", \"start\": 130.861, \"end\": 131.181, \"score\": 0.876}, {\"word\": \"請\"}, {\"word\": \"教\", \"start\": 131.181, \"end\": 131.862, \"score\": 0.984}, {\"word\": \"被\", \"start\": 131.862, \"end\": 131.962, \"score\": 0.84}, {\"word\": \"提\", \"start\": 131.962, \"end\": 132.062, \"score\": 0.895}, {\"word\": \"名\", \"start\": 132.062, \"end\": 132.282, \"score\": 0.958}, {\"word\": \"人\", \"start\": 132.282, \"end\": 132.643, \"score\": 0.95}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 132.643, \"end\": 132.743, \"score\": 0.994}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 132.743, \"end\": 132.883, \"score\": 0.995}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 132.883, \"end\": 133.043, \"score\": 0.914}, {\"word\": \"您\", \"start\": 133.043, \"end\": 133.463, \"score\": 0.905}, {\"word\": \"豐\"}, {\"word\": \"富\", \"start\": 133.463, \"end\": 133.563, \"score\": 0.918}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 133.563, \"end\": 133.643, \"score\": 0.989}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 133.643, \"end\": 133.904, \"score\": 0.846}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"檢\"}, {\"word\": \"察\", \"start\": 133.904, \"end\": 134.064, \"score\": 0.992}, {\"word\": \"官\", \"start\": 134.064, \"end\": 134.184, \"score\": 0.863}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 134.184, \"end\": 134.264, \"score\": 0.757}, {\"word\": \"生\", \"start\": 134.264, \"end\": 134.424, \"score\": 0.884}, {\"word\": \"涯\", \"start\": 134.424, \"end\": 134.644, \"score\": 0.819}, {\"word\": \"裡\"}, {\"word\": \"面\", \"start\": 134.644, \"end\": 134.744, \"score\": 0.817}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 134.744, \"end\": 134.824, \"score\": 0.891}, {\"word\": \"定\", \"start\": 134.824, \"end\": 134.964, \"score\": 0.854}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 134.964, \"end\": 134.984, \"score\": 0.912}]}, {\"start\": 135.956, \"end\": 164.195, \"text\": \"偵辦過許多案件面對這樣子一個不幸的案件我們可以怎麼樣去確保被害人的生命安全專家和學者其實也有一些提醒就是保護令的核發前後會是關係人情緒最激動的時候都希望大家可以多注意但是我們不可能只叫民眾自己多注意對不對我們應該還是要有一些實質的做法所以我想要跟被提名來討論我們有沒有可能來參考一些英國的案例例如說像這個2021年\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"偵\"}, {\"word\": \"辦\"}, {\"word\": \"過\"}, {\"word\": \"許\", \"start\": 135.956, \"end\": 136.817, \"score\": 0.88}, {\"word\": \"多\", \"start\": 136.817, \"end\": 136.997, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"案\", \"start\": 136.997, \"end\": 137.297, \"score\": 0.928}, {\"word\": \"件\", \"start\": 137.297, \"end\": 137.737, \"score\": 0.909}, {\"word\": \"面\", \"start\": 137.737, \"end\": 138.218, \"score\": 0.878}, {\"word\": \"對\"}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"樣\"}, {\"word\": \"子\", \"start\": 138.218, \"end\": 138.318, \"score\": 0.928}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 138.318, \"end\": 138.478, \"score\": 0.75}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 138.478, \"end\": 138.618, \"score\": 0.995}, {\"word\": \"幸\", \"start\": 138.618, \"end\": 138.778, \"score\": 0.921}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 138.778, \"end\": 138.898, \"score\": 0.984}, {\"word\": \"案\", \"start\": 138.898, \"end\": 139.158, \"score\": 0.919}, {\"word\": \"件\", \"start\": 139.158, \"end\": 139.458, \"score\": 0.882}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 139.458, \"end\": 139.659, \"score\": 0.899}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"可\", \"start\": 139.659, \"end\": 139.759, \"score\": 0.851}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 139.759, \"end\": 139.859, \"score\": 0.922}, {\"word\": \"怎\", \"start\": 139.859, \"end\": 140.339, \"score\": 0.901}, {\"word\": \"麼\"}, {\"word\": \"樣\"}, {\"word\": \"去\", \"start\": 140.339, \"end\": 140.579, \"score\": 0.916}, {\"word\": \"確\"}, {\"word\": \"保\", \"start\": 140.579, \"end\": 140.999, \"score\": 0.956}, {\"word\": \"被\", \"start\": 140.999, \"end\": 141.119, \"score\": 0.892}, {\"word\": \"害\", \"start\": 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{\"word\": \"可\", \"start\": 151.026, \"end\": 151.126, \"score\": 0.989}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 151.126, \"end\": 151.246, \"score\": 0.858}, {\"word\": \"多\", \"start\": 151.246, \"end\": 151.446, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"注\", \"start\": 151.446, \"end\": 151.626, \"score\": 0.947}, {\"word\": \"意\", \"start\": 151.626, \"end\": 152.067, \"score\": 0.968}, {\"word\": \"但\", \"start\": 152.067, \"end\": 152.187, \"score\": 0.926}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 152.187, \"end\": 152.327, \"score\": 0.93}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 152.327, \"end\": 152.507, \"score\": 0.884}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 152.507, \"end\": 152.647, \"score\": 0.915}, {\"word\": \"可\", \"start\": 152.647, \"end\": 152.787, \"score\": 0.971}, {\"word\": \"能\", \"start\": 152.787, \"end\": 152.947, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"只\", \"start\": 152.947, \"end\": 153.107, \"score\": 0.874}, {\"word\": \"叫\", \"start\": 153.107, \"end\": 153.728, \"score\": 0.983}, 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439.371, \"score\": 0.946}, {\"word\": \"檢\"}, {\"word\": \"討\"}, {\"word\": \"跟\", \"start\": 439.371, \"end\": 439.591, \"score\": 0.92}, {\"word\": \"精\", \"start\": 439.591, \"end\": 439.971, \"score\": 0.906}, {\"word\": \"進\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 439.971, \"end\": 440.131, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"空\", \"start\": 440.131, \"end\": 440.151, \"score\": 0.973}, {\"word\": \"間\"}]}, {\"start\": 442.412, \"end\": 459.263, \"text\": \"所以當時黃子嬌他會被還起訴我記得那時候我有看那個書他裡面是寫說因為他認為黃子嬌態度良好且持有的少年性向只有供他自己看並沒有散佈或販售因此只給他還起訴兩年\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"所\", \"start\": 442.412, \"end\": 442.553, \"score\": 0.993}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 442.553, \"end\": 444.574, \"score\": 0.96}, {\"word\": \"當\"}, {\"word\": \"時\"}, {\"word\": \"黃\"}, {\"word\": \"子\", \"start\": 444.574, \"end\": 445.094, \"score\": 0.922}, {\"word\": \"嬌\"}, {\"word\": \"他\", \"start\": 445.094, \"end\": 445.354, \"score\": 0.89}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"被\", \"start\": 445.354, \"end\": 445.754, 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469.023, \"end\": 469.183, \"score\": 0.885}, {\"word\": \"益\", \"start\": 469.183, \"end\": 470.644, \"score\": 0.946}, {\"word\": \"斟\"}, {\"word\": \"酌\"}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 470.644, \"end\": 470.824, \"score\": 0.958}, {\"word\": \"否\", \"start\": 470.824, \"end\": 471.265, \"score\": 0.915}, {\"word\": \"對\"}, {\"word\": \"被\", \"start\": 471.265, \"end\": 471.505, \"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"告\", \"start\": 471.505, \"end\": 472.866, \"score\": 0.969}, {\"word\": \"為\"}, {\"word\": \"緩\"}, {\"word\": \"起\", \"start\": 472.866, \"end\": 473.546, \"score\": 0.904}, {\"word\": \"訴\"}, {\"word\": \"處\"}, {\"word\": \"分\", \"start\": 473.546, \"end\": 474.027, \"score\": 0.994}, {\"word\": \"但\", \"start\": 474.027, \"end\": 474.207, \"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 474.207, \"end\": 474.347, \"score\": 0.956}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 474.347, \"end\": 475.007, \"score\": 0.907}, {\"word\": \"認\"}, {\"word\": \"為\"}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": 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{\"word\": \"涉\", \"start\": 478.51, \"end\": 478.67, \"score\": 0.878}, {\"word\": \"到\", \"start\": 478.67, \"end\": 479.01, \"score\": 0.883}, {\"word\": \"兒\"}, {\"word\": \"少\", \"start\": 479.01, \"end\": 479.211, \"score\": 0.939}, {\"word\": \"保\", \"start\": 479.211, \"end\": 479.551, \"score\": 0.94}, {\"word\": \"護\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 479.551, \"end\": 479.651, \"score\": 0.928}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 479.651, \"end\": 479.831, \"score\": 0.889}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"核\", \"start\": 479.831, \"end\": 480.011, \"score\": 0.984}, {\"word\": \"心\", \"start\": 480.011, \"end\": 480.492, \"score\": 0.934}, {\"word\": \"價\"}, {\"word\": \"值\", \"start\": 480.492, \"end\": 481.112, \"score\": 0.959}, {\"word\": \"因\", \"start\": 481.112, \"end\": 481.332, \"score\": 0.908}, {\"word\": \"為\"}, {\"word\": \"他\", \"start\": 481.332, \"end\": 481.472, \"score\": 0.986}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 481.472, \"end\": 481.612, \"score\": 0.996}, {\"word\": \"影\", \"start\": 481.612, \"end\": 481.793, \"score\": 0.985}, {\"word\": \"像\", \"start\": 481.793, \"end\": 482.073, \"score\": 0.949}, {\"word\": \"可\", \"start\": 482.073, \"end\": 482.353, \"score\": 0.935}, {\"word\": \"能\", \"start\": 482.353, \"end\": 483.234, \"score\": 0.954}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"擴\"}, {\"word\": \"散\", \"start\": 483.234, \"end\": 483.494, \"score\": 0.988}, {\"word\": \"到\", \"start\": 483.494, \"end\": 483.714, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"其\", \"start\": 483.714, \"end\": 483.874, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"他\", \"start\": 483.874, \"end\": 484.074, \"score\": 0.993}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 484.074, \"end\": 484.635, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"外\", \"start\": 484.635, \"end\": 484.835, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"流\", \"start\": 484.835, \"end\": 485.576, \"score\": 0.903}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"帶\"}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"很\", \"start\": 485.576, \"end\": 485.776, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"大\", 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0.97}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 489.883, \"end\": 489.963, \"score\": 0.977}, {\"word\": \"衡\", \"start\": 489.963, \"end\": 490.103, \"score\": 0.955}, {\"word\": \"量\", \"start\": 490.103, \"end\": 490.264, \"score\": 0.905}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 490.264, \"end\": 490.925, \"score\": 0.936}, {\"word\": \"範\"}, {\"word\": \"疇\"}, {\"word\": \"也\", \"start\": 490.925, \"end\": 491.106, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"抵\", \"start\": 491.106, \"end\": 491.467, \"score\": 0.913}, {\"word\": \"觸\"}, {\"word\": \"了\", \"start\": 491.467, \"end\": 491.587, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"整\", \"start\": 491.587, \"end\": 491.807, \"score\": 0.894}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"社\", \"start\": 491.807, \"end\": 492.289, \"score\": 0.915}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"對\"}, {\"word\": \"於\", \"start\": 492.289, \"end\": 492.469, \"score\": 0.889}, {\"word\": \"兒\"}, {\"word\": \"少\", \"start\": 492.469, \"end\": 492.75, \"score\": 0.977}, {\"word\": \"保\", \"start\": 492.75, \"end\": 493.071, \"score\": 0.936}, {\"word\": \"護\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 493.071, \"end\": 493.211, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 493.211, \"end\": 493.772, \"score\": 0.964}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"要\", \"start\": 493.772, \"end\": 494.033, \"score\": 0.996}, {\"word\": \"求\", \"start\": 494.033, \"end\": 494.193, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"跟\", \"start\": 494.193, \"end\": 494.354, \"score\": 0.963}, {\"word\": \"公\", \"start\": 494.354, \"end\": 494.494, \"score\": 0.858}, {\"word\": \"共\", \"start\": 494.494, \"end\": 494.634, \"score\": 0.858}, {\"word\": \"利\", \"start\": 494.634, \"end\": 494.715, \"score\": 0.763}, {\"word\": \"益\", \"start\": 494.715, \"end\": 494.835, \"score\": 0.839}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 494.835, \"end\": 494.975, \"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"基\", \"start\": 494.975, \"end\": 495.116, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"本\", \"start\": 495.116, \"end\": 495.276, \"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"底\", \"start\": 495.276, \"end\": 495.296, \"score\": 0.922}, {\"word\": \"線\"}]}, {\"start\": 496.513, \"end\": 521.542, \"text\": \"所以呢如果使用緩起訴就會顯示出我們對於兒少保護觀念並沒有這個觀念呢其實並沒有在檢察官所認定的公共利益但也會削弱司法對於兒少性剝削犯罪的防治意志也可能造成社會的一個錯誤的示範效應所以這件事情呢其實蠻值得檢討我們現行的緩起訴制度對特定的犯罪類型是否應設限\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"所\", \"start\": 496.513, \"end\": 496.633, \"score\": 0.993}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 496.633, \"end\": 496.753, \"score\": 0.838}, {\"word\": \"呢\", \"start\": 496.753, \"end\": 497.213, \"score\": 0.974}, {\"word\": \"如\", \"start\": 497.213, \"end\": 497.293, \"score\": 0.75}, {\"word\": \"果\", \"start\": 497.293, \"end\": 497.373, \"score\": 0.75}, {\"word\": \"使\", \"start\": 497.373, \"end\": 497.493, \"score\": 0.956}, {\"word\": \"用\", \"start\": 497.493, \"end\": 497.773, \"score\": 0.928}, {\"word\": \"緩\"}, {\"word\": \"起\", \"start\": 497.773, \"end\": 498.134, \"score\": 0.904}, {\"word\": \"訴\"}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 498.134, \"end\": 498.654, \"score\": 0.922}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": 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\"score\": 0.995}, {\"word\": \"保\", \"start\": 569.998, \"end\": 570.018, \"score\": 0.985}, {\"word\": \"護\"}]}, {\"start\": 572.91, \"end\": 596.377, \"text\": \"關於兒少保護我因為之前擔任主任檢察官的期間大概有三年也在婦幼組如果我回想我們當時會運用到譬如說起訴那大概就是性侵害案件或者說是比較嚴重的一些妨礙性自主的案件甚至是集團性的犯罪\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"關\"}, {\"word\": \"於\", \"start\": 572.91, \"end\": 573.37, \"score\": 0.912}, {\"word\": \"兒\"}, {\"word\": \"少\", \"start\": 573.37, \"end\": 573.61, \"score\": 0.985}, {\"word\": \"保\", \"start\": 573.61, \"end\": 574.791, \"score\": 0.965}, {\"word\": \"護\"}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 574.791, \"end\": 574.931, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"因\", \"start\": 574.931, \"end\": 575.991, \"score\": 0.956}, {\"word\": \"為\"}, {\"word\": \"之\", \"start\": 575.991, \"end\": 576.151, \"score\": 0.996}, {\"word\": \"前\", \"start\": 576.151, \"end\": 577.491, \"score\": 0.94}, {\"word\": \"擔\"}, {\"word\": \"任\", \"start\": 577.491, \"end\": 577.872, \"score\": 0.951}, {\"word\": \"主\", \"start\": 577.872, 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\"text\": \"當時也許雙方是有感情的只是父母反對那這時候我們會透過一些這個庭外的機制雙方如果都可以和解父母也可以接受的話就會進行緩起訴那至於不起訴那當然如果是證據不足的即使他是重罪我們證據不足也只能不起訴處分\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"當\"}, {\"word\": \"時\"}, {\"word\": \"也\", \"start\": 615.108, \"end\": 615.488, \"score\": 0.948}, {\"word\": \"許\", \"start\": 615.488, \"end\": 615.708, \"score\": 0.909}, {\"word\": \"雙\"}, {\"word\": \"方\", \"start\": 615.708, \"end\": 615.968, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 615.968, \"end\": 617.389, \"score\": 0.971}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 617.389, \"end\": 617.609, \"score\": 0.995}, {\"word\": \"感\", \"start\": 617.609, \"end\": 617.809, \"score\": 0.975}, {\"word\": \"情\", \"start\": 617.809, \"end\": 618.009, \"score\": 0.995}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 618.009, \"end\": 618.209, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"只\", \"start\": 618.209, \"end\": 618.309, \"score\": 0.838}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 618.309, \"end\": 618.489, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"父\", \"start\": 618.489, \"end\": 618.629, \"score\": 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\"那就像刚才委员您提到的其实第一审检察官所做的起诉所做的还起诉不进入法院的还起诉或这个不起诉其实还是有监督机制的他还是可以去救济像刚才委员您提到的那个案件其实我们高检署就是有撤销发挥要他再行侦查那这个也是一个我们司法机关自己内部的一个过滤审查机制\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 637.214, \"end\": 637.374, \"score\": 0.986}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 637.374, \"end\": 637.754, \"score\": 0.933}, {\"word\": \"像\", \"start\": 637.754, \"end\": 637.974, \"score\": 0.915}, {\"word\": \"刚\", \"start\": 637.974, \"end\": 638.134, \"score\": 0.949}, {\"word\": \"才\", \"start\": 638.134, \"end\": 638.274, \"score\": 0.933}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 638.274, \"end\": 638.414, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"员\", \"start\": 638.414, \"end\": 638.574, \"score\": 0.989}, {\"word\": \"您\", \"start\": 638.574, \"end\": 638.794, \"score\": 0.911}, {\"word\": \"提\", \"start\": 638.794, \"end\": 638.994, \"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"到\", \"start\": 638.994, \"end\": 639.214, \"score\": 0.991}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 639.214, \"end\": 639.635, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"其\", \"start\": 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0.992}, {\"word\": \"力\", \"start\": 1233.14, \"end\": 1233.16, \"score\": 0.995}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:12,958 --> 00:00:16,441\n謝謝主席,有請林立穎大法官麻煩備提名人\n\n2\n00:00:29,059 --> 00:00:44,748\n委員好您好就是司法院大法官這幾年來呢攸關國家憲政制度的推動也協助國家奠定許多重要法案的一些論點因此對於時事和民生我想要跟被提名人來做一些請教首先呢就是有關於這次的\n\n3\n00:00:45,709 --> 00:00:59,855\n土城發生了兩名姐妹遭受46歲的性性男子亂刀砍傷導致不幸身亡這件震驚社會的不幸事件我想有許多的思考我簡單整理了一下一些相關的事件的時間點\n\n4\n00:01:01,363 --> 00:01:19,024\n首先是在整個案發前我自己整理的這個從案發前到7月7日案發殺害總共有五個機會我覺得好像我們可以來檢討一下首先就是針對於說我想在這個一開始案發前其實它是已經在取得保護令的一個狀態\n\n5\n00:01:20,365 --> 00:01:49,264\n那前一天呢其實這個加害人呢已經違反保護令去這個住處大吵大鬧而且毀損了一些物品那我認為再來接下來就是關鍵的措施點跟第二點跟措施點第三點這樣子在這兩個公權力介入的時間點上面檢察官認為這是情節輕微但是證明其實就像剛剛說的他其實已經跑到受害人家都大吵大鬧了而且是已經有在保護令的狀態之下這其實已經是第一個警訊了\n\n6\n00:01:50,725 --> 00:02:14,984\n老師呢隔天家事法庭法官也沒有進一步的裁定加害人去接受輔導處遇的計畫我認為不論是檢察官或者是法官其實都沒有實質的具體的作為認為加害人是情緒不穩定恐怕會釀成大禍的一個可能性所以呢我想請教被提名人就是在您豐富的一個檢察官的生涯裡面一定有\n\n7\n00:02:15,956 --> 00:02:44,195\n偵辦過許多案件面對這樣子一個不幸的案件我們可以怎麼樣去確保被害人的生命安全專家和學者其實也有一些提醒就是保護令的核發前後會是關係人情緒最激動的時候都希望大家可以多注意但是我們不可能只叫民眾自己多注意對不對我們應該還是要有一些實質的做法所以我想要跟被提名來討論我們有沒有可能來參考一些英國的案例例如說像這個2021年\n\n8\n00:02:46,656 --> 00:03:07,930\n2021年英國的家庭暴力法案他大幅的加強了對家暴受害者的法律保護首先呢就是對於施暴者的一個限制措施他是可以量身定做的一些限制的機制就例如說他可以要求施暴者接受行為矯正課程或是酒飲藥物治療等等等等的而且更\n\n9\n00:03:08,590 --> 00:03:30,769\n不一樣的地方是他們的法院可以並備賦予明確的權利命令電子監控甚至可以施令我們這個施暴者要佩戴電子標記可能是腳療之類的來監測他是否有遵守同時施暴者也有通報的義務要向警方提供現在的住址等資訊的更新\n\n10\n00:03:32,171 --> 00:03:53,032\n讓政府可以去追蹤如果需要的話他還可以規範禁止施暴者在特定距離出現禁止透過電話或網路聯繫受害人那這個做法在2023年事辦之後呢中部地區針對500名高風險的家暴嫌苛者在出獄後強制佩戴GPS電子腳鐐\n\n11\n00:03:55,014 --> 00:04:19,546\n這個成效其實蠻不錯的大概有2700個受害人免於遭受服刑中的施暴者騷擾所以我想請教就是說像英國這麼重視人權的國家對於加害人的保障其實也都開始使用像這樣子的電子標示的方式來確保我們這些人不會被受害那我也想請教您認為經過這個事件我們是否也應該要來思考\n\n12\n00:04:20,887 --> 00:04:34,349\n納入這樣子的一個電子標誌的可行性不能夠讓我們的家保保護令只是一張行政命令而是可以實際保護我們被害人的保護傘可不可以請您發表您的一些想法\n\n13\n00:04:36,148 --> 00:04:55,984\n謝謝委員的提問對這個案件也表達遺憾不過我就不對個案評論但是委員有提供很多國外的案例來供我們參考尤其他們的這個制度像電子監控這樣的制度那其實目前電子監控設備在我國也其實有引進的\n\n14\n00:04:56,584 --> 00:05:23,630\n那目前最初剛開始是在做性侵害犯的這個假釋期間的這個保護管束的這個附帶的一個措施那這幾年也慢慢就引進作為交保被告的防逃機制之一那看起來成效不能說完美但是事實上可以提升有效的提升這些比如說防止他去做繼續做危害行為的這個目的可以監測他到底在哪裡對對\n\n15\n00:05:25,571 --> 00:05:39,470\n這個效果是不錯的所以目前如果可以試辦到對比如說在保護令可以附加這種電子監控那其實應該效果會更好因為就我所知保護令常常是要求\n\n16\n00:05:40,091 --> 00:06:01,814\n而不得去離被害人幾公尺住家幾公尺之內不能靠近辦公室幾公尺之內不能靠近其實如果是只有這樣子的命令一張紙其實很難執行重視我們現在其實有一些警力或者說是社工在輔助但是人力畢竟是有限的而且時間那麼長\n\n17\n00:06:03,075 --> 00:06:27,968\n那我想電子監控確實是一個非常不錯的也謝謝委員這種提示那當然如果大院可以通過相關的立法的話那我想可能就可以立刻讓這個制度可以實現讓受害家暴的被害人可以更多保障我想這可以如果就聽起來就是您的立場是其實蠻支持的往這個方向來給我們被害人或是這些家暴的受害者\n\n18\n00:06:28,448 --> 00:06:56,637\n可以有更多的一些保障嘛對不對那接下來我也想要請教一樣是在兒少保護的這個領域也是一樣是一個爭議的案件就是之前黃子佼在創意私訪的一個案件當時呢他去年被查出持有兒少性剝削影像但是初期檢察官只有對他作出緩起訴結果導致社會強烈的反彈民間高度的關注跟不滿那最後呢是發回續行偵查最終在五月的時候將他正式起訴\n\n19\n00:06:58,454 --> 00:07:20,151\n這個事件其實是反映了我們目前的制度上面面對兒少性影響性剝削這些案件的時候我們對於持有行為的嚴重性跟社會期待之間其實存在著落差也凸顯出檢查體系第一時間對此類的兒少保護意識和法律適用還是有檢討跟精進的空間\n\n20\n00:07:22,412 --> 00:07:39,263\n所以當時黃子嬌他會被還起訴我記得那時候我有看那個書他裡面是寫說因為他認為黃子嬌態度良好且持有的少年性向只有供他自己看並沒有散佈或販售因此只給他還起訴兩年\n\n21\n00:07:41,417 --> 00:08:06,236\n那雖然說根據刑事訴訟法第253條之一的規定檢察官得參酌刑法第57條所列情況及公共利益斟酌是否對被告為緩起訴處分但是我認為這件事情其實是這個持有的行為呢其實是牽涉到兒少保護的一個核心價值因為他的影像可能會擴散到其他的外流會帶來很大的一個實質影響\n\n22\n00:08:07,637 --> 00:08:15,296\n那這已經不是單純個案可以衡量的範疇也抵觸了整個社會對於兒少保護的一個要求跟公共利益的基本底線\n\n23\n00:08:16,513 --> 00:08:41,542\n所以呢如果使用緩起訴就會顯示出我們對於兒少保護觀念並沒有這個觀念呢其實並沒有在檢察官所認定的公共利益但也會削弱司法對於兒少性剝削犯罪的防治意志也可能造成社會的一個錯誤的示範效應所以這件事情呢其實蠻值得檢討我們現行的緩起訴制度對特定的犯罪類型是否應設限\n\n24\n00:08:43,143 --> 00:09:10,861\n或增設明確的排除條款來符合公共利益與兒少最佳利益的要求那目前呢其實司法官呢其實是有一些相關的一個課程讓檢察官學習兒少訓問的一個技巧來減少對被害兒少的二次傷害但是在整體的兒少保護制度我們其實是很少去針對於兒少保護和起訴之間來進行討論這也就會造成了所謂的認知的落差也難以落實真正的兒少最佳利益\n\n25\n00:09:14,744 --> 00:09:30,018\n所以我想請教就是說您長期擔任檢察官您認為檢察官在面對涉及兒少的刑事案件時我們應該如何妥適的運用起訴還起訴或不起訴等處分權限才能夠真正的落實兒少保護\n\n26\n00:09:32,910 --> 00:09:56,377\n關於兒少保護我因為之前擔任主任檢察官的期間大概有三年也在婦幼組如果我回想我們當時會運用到譬如說起訴那大概就是性侵害案件或者說是比較嚴重的一些妨礙性自主的案件甚至是集團性的犯罪\n\n27\n00:09:58,418 --> 00:10:13,808\n會還起訴的其實不多通常是所謂的兩小無猜的案件那因為兩小無猜現在只要這個一方未滿一定的歲數就會有構成這個一定的刑責所以\n\n28\n00:10:15,108 --> 00:10:36,094\n當時也許雙方是有感情的只是父母反對那這時候我們會透過一些這個庭外的機制雙方如果都可以和解父母也可以接受的話就會進行緩起訴那至於不起訴那當然如果是證據不足的即使他是重罪我們證據不足也只能不起訴處分\n\n29\n00:10:37,214 --> 00:11:04,940\n那就像刚才委员您提到的其实第一审检察官所做的起诉所做的还起诉不进入法院的还起诉或这个不起诉其实还是有监督机制的他还是可以去救济像刚才委员您提到的那个案件其实我们高检署就是有撤销发挥要他再行侦查那这个也是一个我们司法机关自己内部的一个过滤审查机制\n\n30\n00:11:07,261 --> 00:11:25,414\n這件事情最主要是想要表達就是說我們可能對於兒少因為一開始檢察官在做這個緩起訴的時候他其實是沒有理解到這件事情對兒少的影響那我想這也是我們希望整個整個體系啦司法體系裡面都可以更理解這個兒少的這個概念這樣子\n\n31\n00:11:28,356 --> 00:11:50,576\n一樣繼續是兒少相關的議題就是說我們現在因為大法官其實是人事未定所以我們憲法法庭的審理程序陷入停擺其實有很多的重要案件遲遲無法受理其實有一件事情非常非常受到許多社會的關注就是兒少性侵案件的追溯失效的問題\n\n32\n00:11:51,752 --> 00:12:17,674\n好那這個問題我就合併了待會我也會去講轉型正義好這個也是追溯時效的一個問題就是在根據法務部的統計自民國93年到113年底已經有1040件性侵案件因為時效屆滿遭檢察官不起訴這代表有1040個勇敢提出指控的受害被害人連法院大門都無法跨進一步\n\n33\n00:12:18,434 --> 00:12:40,420\n這不只是法律制度的缺失也對他們其實是第二次的傷害所以說時效制度原意其實是要保障證據穩定與訴訟效率但是在兒少性侵案件中卻往往與被害人創傷沉默長期壓抑的實際狀況產生衝突其實我們不能夠忽視這樣子的一個制度性的排除跟壓迫所以\n\n34\n00:12:41,400 --> 00:13:02,431\n也許將來極有可能需要透過憲法層次的審查檢視我們現行的追溯實相是否違反憲法所保障的訴訟權與人性尊嚴是我認為是當前憲法法庭不容忽視的一個重要課題那其實呢這幾年不管是很多的民間團體像人本利新啊其實他們都揭發了相關的案件\n\n35\n00:13:03,411 --> 00:13:21,674\n像是有一個去年4月報導者有報導一個2023年有一位匿名叫S的他在事發中超過20年才向他的母校國小提出投訴可是最後還是因為超過了追溯期而無法起訴\n\n36\n00:13:24,119 --> 00:13:48,729\n根據我們刑法第80條針對性侵的這些相關案件最長其實是可以達到30年了但是這項延長是至2006年7月1日修正施行之後才開始適用將原先的20年拉成30年但是如果是發生在這之前的即便他提告都會被一御追溯時效追溯時效為由而駁回\n\n37\n00:13:50,407 --> 00:14:02,421\n所以呢我想就是其實澳洲的許多的澳洲的皇家委會的調查性侵的被害人其實平均要超過23.6年才有辦法訴說自己的創傷經歷男性有更長\n\n38\n00:14:03,933 --> 00:14:31,352\n所以刑法追溯時效制度的設計是否在特定情況下其實已經構成了對憲法保障的訴訟權跟人性尊嚴的侵害我認為這個是一個非常關鍵的地方我也認為我們必須要重新檢討目前的追溯時效的一個設計所以我想請問您認為延長對於這樣兒少性侵案您認為是否可以延長或者是取消才能夠讓我們的被害人真正有足夠的時間去告罰得到\n\n39\n00:14:32,115 --> 00:14:33,728\n讓加害者得到應有的懲罰呢?\n\n40\n00:14:35,491 --> 00:15:01,246\n謝謝委員的提問關於這個問題也是我們很重視的問題我個人也非常重視我留學德國一陣子那也知道德國對於性侵害相關的追溯權時效他對於受害人的追溯權時效他的起算點如果他是在幼年被性侵的話他的時效起算是從他成年之後才開始起算\n\n41\n00:15:02,126 --> 00:15:31,446\n除了德國之外各國都有不同的針對性侵害犯的追溯權時效他有做特別的設計讓他可以拉長延長或取消甚至是取消沒錯有一些國際公約也認為應該要做取消時效追溯的任務那麼我覺得第一個階段我們可以做的我覺得還是在大院的手裡只要大院願意支持這樣的法案通過的話應該速度會更快\n\n42\n00:15:32,006 --> 00:15:49,283\n我想這個其實但是因為大法官還是蠻重要又要來解釋這件事情所以我還是會有這樣子的期待不過聽起來您應該是支持往這個方向去努力的對不對好那接下來也是一樣其實我有特別關注到您在朱慶恩冤案的一個堅持跟努力\n\n43\n00:15:49,924 --> 00:16:05,211\n就是即便當事人其實已經過世了可是你沒有放棄追求司法的正義持續推動這個非常上述與再審讓這個當事人在去世22年之後獲判無罪我認為這是為無辜者洗刷冤屈\n\n44\n00:16:05,971 --> 00:16:29,233\n而且也創下我國檢察官成功為已故被告人平反的司法先例我也非常的感謝您對於法治與人權保障的一個努力那接下來就想要請教可是我們還有許多的受害者到現在還是沒有得到真正的平反那最主要就是說在很多的政治檔案條例通過之後呢很多人才知道他的家人死亡的真相是什麼\n\n45\n00:16:30,558 --> 00:16:44,477\n那這些都是在2019年之後才發生的在這之前其實是沒有辦法得到這些資訊那可是現在一樣殺人罪的追溯時效為30年可是解嚴現在都已經超過38年了\n\n46\n00:16:46,440 --> 00:17:05,758\n依據法律不溯及既往這線其實是在現在的法律架構之下它無法獲得補償可是就如同您剛剛有提到就是說德國其實都有很多更能夠去看到這些困境這個制度上面去做一些調整好那不管是德國也好它其實在1979年就已經完全刪除了謀殺罪追訴權的實相\n\n47\n00:17:09,822 --> 00:17:39,462\n亞洲的韓國也在1995年制定了518民主化運動特別法以及迫害憲政秩序犯罪之公訴時效特別法那都有明文的去講說要排除公訴時效也就是破壞憲政秩序罪與集體殺人罪可無限期追溯所以我想請教您針對於這樣子的一個歷史性結構性的國家性暴力您認為是否該直接打破刑法的追溯期的限制將期限繼續往後延或是可以無限期的追溯呢\n\n48\n00:17:41,263 --> 00:18:02,877\n謝謝委員首先我要先澄清朱慶恩一案不是我一個人的這個我只是做最後其中的一個小螺絲釘其實這是我們司法體系我們內部自省很多人共同努力來促成平反的那包括檢察界跟法院我們都共同為這件事情做一個平反是很多人的努力再次\n\n49\n00:18:03,257 --> 00:18:30,967\n特別要提出說明也感謝很多一起合作的夥伴讓這件事情終於可以完成讓被害人的清白至於這件案子真的也是拖了很久所以今天委員您提到就是說關於這種結構性的歷史性的這種迫害我也覺得應該要有一個制度去做一個類似像它應該也是轉型正義的一環\n\n50\n00:18:31,888 --> 00:18:46,929\n應該去做這些努力那我覺得這還是可以是可以多方去討論就是說該如何突破他的這個追溯權的限制然後去追溯我比較擔心的是其實如果是\n\n51\n00:18:47,930 --> 00:19:05,311\n平反像現在已經有很多歷史的重新的詮釋新的故事在讓我們了解但是如果是訴訟法上面的確實我們可能要從多方面去努力\n\n52\n00:19:06,536 --> 00:19:25,607\n我想這個部分因為它也是回到跟剛剛那個題目其實有點接近的就是性侵害的追溯時間好那我其實是蠻期待就是說未來如果您擔任這個大法官的時候其實是可以來做更多的就是針對這個題目來做一些說明因為其實我想最後一個因為時間有限我簡單來問我最後一個問題就是說\n\n53\n00:19:32,332 --> 00:20:01,692\n如果您擔任大法官我們遇到這樣子的釋憲申請你認為我們應該如何平序平衡正當的法律程序與實質正義呢因為正當的程序跟法律實質之間其實追求的是一種動態的平衡正當的法律程序我們保障的是國家權利行使的正當性可是如果我們一昧俱力行事我們就會忽略個案中明顯的不正義就會造成法治變成是一個壓迫的工具所以我想這個是需要大家一起來努力的所以我想問一下您會如何平衡呢\n\n54\n00:20:02,852 --> 00:20:27,689\n其實剛才委員您提到的這些都是可能當然我不能去做假設性的問題然後我現在的身份也不適合去具體深入評論但是我想提出來各方面需要權衡的包括個人的基本權利第三人的權益還有社會的公共利益都是在憲法上做憲法審查的時候都必須要做衡量的\n\n55\n00:20:29,508 --> 00:20:33,160\n好我想這個因為轉型正義的路還很長未來我們就一起來努力謝謝\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n12958\t16441\t謝謝主席,有請林立穎大法官麻煩備提名人\n29059\t44748\t委員好您好就是司法院大法官這幾年來呢攸關國家憲政制度的推動也協助國家奠定許多重要法案的一些論點因此對於時事和民生我想要跟被提名人來做一些請教首先呢就是有關於這次的\n45709\t59855\t土城發生了兩名姐妹遭受46歲的性性男子亂刀砍傷導致不幸身亡這件震驚社會的不幸事件我想有許多的思考我簡單整理了一下一些相關的事件的時間點\n61363\t79024\t首先是在整個案發前我自己整理的這個從案發前到7月7日案發殺害總共有五個機會我覺得好像我們可以來檢討一下首先就是針對於說我想在這個一開始案發前其實它是已經在取得保護令的一個狀態\n80365\t109264\t那前一天呢其實這個加害人呢已經違反保護令去這個住處大吵大鬧而且毀損了一些物品那我認為再來接下來就是關鍵的措施點跟第二點跟措施點第三點這樣子在這兩個公權力介入的時間點上面檢察官認為這是情節輕微但是證明其實就像剛剛說的他其實已經跑到受害人家都大吵大鬧了而且是已經有在保護令的狀態之下這其實已經是第一個警訊了\n110725\t134984\t老師呢隔天家事法庭法官也沒有進一步的裁定加害人去接受輔導處遇的計畫我認為不論是檢察官或者是法官其實都沒有實質的具體的作為認為加害人是情緒不穩定恐怕會釀成大禍的一個可能性所以呢我想請教被提名人就是在您豐富的一個檢察官的生涯裡面一定有\n135956\t164195\t偵辦過許多案件面對這樣子一個不幸的案件我們可以怎麼樣去確保被害人的生命安全專家和學者其實也有一些提醒就是保護令的核發前後會是關係人情緒最激動的時候都希望大家可以多注意但是我們不可能只叫民眾自己多注意對不對我們應該還是要有一些實質的做法所以我想要跟被提名來討論我們有沒有可能來參考一些英國的案例例如說像這個2021年\n166656\t187930\t2021年英國的家庭暴力法案他大幅的加強了對家暴受害者的法律保護首先呢就是對於施暴者的一個限制措施他是可以量身定做的一些限制的機制就例如說他可以要求施暴者接受行為矯正課程或是酒飲藥物治療等等等等的而且更\n188590\t210769\t不一樣的地方是他們的法院可以並備賦予明確的權利命令電子監控甚至可以施令我們這個施暴者要佩戴電子標記可能是腳療之類的來監測他是否有遵守同時施暴者也有通報的義務要向警方提供現在的住址等資訊的更新\n212171\t233032\t讓政府可以去追蹤如果需要的話他還可以規範禁止施暴者在特定距離出現禁止透過電話或網路聯繫受害人那這個做法在2023年事辦之後呢中部地區針對500名高風險的家暴嫌苛者在出獄後強制佩戴GPS電子腳鐐\n235014\t259546\t這個成效其實蠻不錯的大概有2700個受害人免於遭受服刑中的施暴者騷擾所以我想請教就是說像英國這麼重視人權的國家對於加害人的保障其實也都開始使用像這樣子的電子標示的方式來確保我們這些人不會被受害那我也想請教您認為經過這個事件我們是否也應該要來思考\n260887\t274349\t納入這樣子的一個電子標誌的可行性不能夠讓我們的家保保護令只是一張行政命令而是可以實際保護我們被害人的保護傘可不可以請您發表您的一些想法\n276148\t295984\t謝謝委員的提問對這個案件也表達遺憾不過我就不對個案評論但是委員有提供很多國外的案例來供我們參考尤其他們的這個制度像電子監控這樣的制度那其實目前電子監控設備在我國也其實有引進的\n296584\t323630\t那目前最初剛開始是在做性侵害犯的這個假釋期間的這個保護管束的這個附帶的一個措施那這幾年也慢慢就引進作為交保被告的防逃機制之一那看起來成效不能說完美但是事實上可以提升有效的提升這些比如說防止他去做繼續做危害行為的這個目的可以監測他到底在哪裡對對\n325571\t339470\t這個效果是不錯的所以目前如果可以試辦到對比如說在保護令可以附加這種電子監控那其實應該效果會更好因為就我所知保護令常常是要求\n340091\t361814\t而不得去離被害人幾公尺住家幾公尺之內不能靠近辦公室幾公尺之內不能靠近其實如果是只有這樣子的命令一張紙其實很難執行重視我們現在其實有一些警力或者說是社工在輔助但是人力畢竟是有限的而且時間那麼長\n363075\t387968\t那我想電子監控確實是一個非常不錯的也謝謝委員這種提示那當然如果大院可以通過相關的立法的話那我想可能就可以立刻讓這個制度可以實現讓受害家暴的被害人可以更多保障我想這可以如果就聽起來就是您的立場是其實蠻支持的往這個方向來給我們被害人或是這些家暴的受害者\n388448\t416637\t可以有更多的一些保障嘛對不對那接下來我也想要請教一樣是在兒少保護的這個領域也是一樣是一個爭議的案件就是之前黃子佼在創意私訪的一個案件當時呢他去年被查出持有兒少性剝削影像但是初期檢察官只有對他作出緩起訴結果導致社會強烈的反彈民間高度的關注跟不滿那最後呢是發回續行偵查最終在五月的時候將他正式起訴\n418454\t440151\t這個事件其實是反映了我們目前的制度上面面對兒少性影響性剝削這些案件的時候我們對於持有行為的嚴重性跟社會期待之間其實存在著落差也凸顯出檢查體系第一時間對此類的兒少保護意識和法律適用還是有檢討跟精進的空間\n442412\t459263\t所以當時黃子嬌他會被還起訴我記得那時候我有看那個書他裡面是寫說因為他認為黃子嬌態度良好且持有的少年性向只有供他自己看並沒有散佈或販售因此只給他還起訴兩年\n461417\t486236\t那雖然說根據刑事訴訟法第253條之一的規定檢察官得參酌刑法第57條所列情況及公共利益斟酌是否對被告為緩起訴處分但是我認為這件事情其實是這個持有的行為呢其實是牽涉到兒少保護的一個核心價值因為他的影像可能會擴散到其他的外流會帶來很大的一個實質影響\n487637\t495296\t那這已經不是單純個案可以衡量的範疇也抵觸了整個社會對於兒少保護的一個要求跟公共利益的基本底線\n496513\t521542\t所以呢如果使用緩起訴就會顯示出我們對於兒少保護觀念並沒有這個觀念呢其實並沒有在檢察官所認定的公共利益但也會削弱司法對於兒少性剝削犯罪的防治意志也可能造成社會的一個錯誤的示範效應所以這件事情呢其實蠻值得檢討我們現行的緩起訴制度對特定的犯罪類型是否應設限\n523143\t550861\t或增設明確的排除條款來符合公共利益與兒少最佳利益的要求那目前呢其實司法官呢其實是有一些相關的一個課程讓檢察官學習兒少訓問的一個技巧來減少對被害兒少的二次傷害但是在整體的兒少保護制度我們其實是很少去針對於兒少保護和起訴之間來進行討論這也就會造成了所謂的認知的落差也難以落實真正的兒少最佳利益\n554744\t570018\t所以我想請教就是說您長期擔任檢察官您認為檢察官在面對涉及兒少的刑事案件時我們應該如何妥適的運用起訴還起訴或不起訴等處分權限才能夠真正的落實兒少保護\n572910\t596377\t關於兒少保護我因為之前擔任主任檢察官的期間大概有三年也在婦幼組如果我回想我們當時會運用到譬如說起訴那大概就是性侵害案件或者說是比較嚴重的一些妨礙性自主的案件甚至是集團性的犯罪\n598418\t613808\t會還起訴的其實不多通常是所謂的兩小無猜的案件那因為兩小無猜現在只要這個一方未滿一定的歲數就會有構成這個一定的刑責所以\n615108\t636094\t當時也許雙方是有感情的只是父母反對那這時候我們會透過一些這個庭外的機制雙方如果都可以和解父母也可以接受的話就會進行緩起訴那至於不起訴那當然如果是證據不足的即使他是重罪我們證據不足也只能不起訴處分\n637214\t664940\t那就像刚才委员您提到的其实第一审检察官所做的起诉所做的还起诉不进入法院的还起诉或这个不起诉其实还是有监督机制的他还是可以去救济像刚才委员您提到的那个案件其实我们高检署就是有撤销发挥要他再行侦查那这个也是一个我们司法机关自己内部的一个过滤审查机制\n667261\t685414\t這件事情最主要是想要表達就是說我們可能對於兒少因為一開始檢察官在做這個緩起訴的時候他其實是沒有理解到這件事情對兒少的影響那我想這也是我們希望整個整個體系啦司法體系裡面都可以更理解這個兒少的這個概念這樣子\n688356\t710576\t一樣繼續是兒少相關的議題就是說我們現在因為大法官其實是人事未定所以我們憲法法庭的審理程序陷入停擺其實有很多的重要案件遲遲無法受理其實有一件事情非常非常受到許多社會的關注就是兒少性侵案件的追溯失效的問題\n711752\t737674\t好 那這個問題我就合併了 待會我也會去講轉型正義好 這個也是追溯時效的一個問題就是在根據法務部的統計自民國93年到113年底已經有1040件性侵案件因為時效屆滿 遭檢察官不起訴這代表有1040個勇敢提出指控的受害 被害人連法院大門都無法跨進一步\n738434\t760420\t這不只是法律制度的缺失也對他們其實是第二次的傷害所以說時效制度原意其實是要保障證據穩定與訴訟效率但是在兒少性侵案件中卻往往與被害人創傷沉默長期壓抑的實際狀況產生衝突其實我們不能夠忽視這樣子的一個制度性的排除跟壓迫所以\n761400\t782431\t也許將來極有可能需要透過憲法層次的審查檢視我們現行的追溯實相是否違反憲法所保障的訴訟權與人性尊嚴是我認為是當前憲法法庭不容忽視的一個重要課題那其實呢這幾年不管是很多的民間團體像人本利新啊其實他們都揭發了相關的案件\n783411\t801674\t像是有一個去年4月報導者有報導一個2023年有一位匿名叫S的他在事發中超過20年才向他的母校國小提出投訴可是最後還是因為超過了追溯期而無法起訴\n804119\t828729\t根據我們刑法第80條 針對性侵的這些相關案件最長其實是可以達到30年了但是這項延長是至2006年7月1日修正施行之後才開始適用將原先的20年拉成30年但是如果是發生在這之前的即便他提告都會被一御追溯時效追溯時效為由而駁回\n830407\t842421\t所以呢我想就是其實澳洲的許多的澳洲的皇家委會的調查性侵的被害人其實平均要超過23.6年才有辦法訴說自己的創傷經歷男性有更長\n843933\t871352\t所以刑法追溯時效制度的設計是否在特定情況下其實已經構成了對憲法保障的訴訟權跟人性尊嚴的侵害我認為這個是一個非常關鍵的地方我也認為我們必須要重新檢討目前的追溯時效的一個設計所以我想請問您認為延長對於這樣兒少性侵案您認為是否可以延長或者是取消才能夠讓我們的被害人真正有足夠的時間去告罰得到\n872115\t873728\t讓加害者得到應有的懲罰呢?\n875491\t901246\t謝謝委員的提問關於這個問題也是我們很重視的問題我個人也非常重視我留學德國一陣子那也知道德國對於性侵害相關的追溯權時效他對於受害人的追溯權時效他的起算點如果他是在幼年被性侵的話他的時效起算是從他成年之後才開始起算\n902126\t931446\t除了德國之外各國都有不同的針對性侵害犯的追溯權時效他有做特別的設計讓他可以拉長延長或取消甚至是取消沒錯有一些國際公約也認為應該要做取消時效追溯的任務那麼我覺得第一個階段我們可以做的我覺得還是在大院的手裡只要大院願意支持這樣的法案通過的話應該速度會更快\n932006\t949283\t我想這個其實但是因為大法官還是蠻重要又要來解釋這件事情所以我還是會有這樣子的期待不過聽起來您應該是支持往這個方向去努力的對不對好那接下來也是一樣其實我有特別關注到您在朱慶恩冤案的一個堅持跟努力\n949924\t965211\t就是即便當事人其實已經過世了可是你沒有放棄追求司法的正義持續推動這個非常上述與再審讓這個當事人在去世22年之後獲判無罪我認為這是為無辜者洗刷冤屈\n965971\t989233\t而且也創下我國檢察官成功為已故被告人平反的司法先例我也非常的感謝您對於法治與人權保障的一個努力那接下來就想要請教可是我們還有許多的受害者到現在還是沒有得到真正的平反那最主要就是說在很多的政治檔案條例通過之後呢很多人才知道他的家人死亡的真相是什麼\n990558\t1004477\t那這些都是在2019年之後才發生的在這之前其實是沒有辦法得到這些資訊那可是現在一樣殺人罪的追溯時效為30年可是解嚴現在都已經超過38年了\n1006440\t1025758\t依據法律不溯及既往這線其實是在現在的法律架構之下它無法獲得補償可是就如同您剛剛有提到就是說德國其實都有很多更能夠去看到這些困境這個制度上面去做一些調整好 那不管是德國也好它其實在1979年就已經完全刪除了謀殺罪追訴權的實相\n1029822\t1059462\t亞洲的韓國也在1995年制定了518民主化運動特別法以及迫害憲政秩序犯罪之公訴時效特別法那都有明文的去講說要排除公訴時效也就是破壞憲政秩序罪與集體殺人罪可無限期追溯所以我想請教您針對於這樣子的一個歷史性結構性的國家性暴力您認為是否該直接打破刑法的追溯期的限制將期限繼續往後延或是可以無限期的追溯呢\n1061263\t1082877\t謝謝委員首先我要先澄清朱慶恩一案不是我一個人的這個我只是做最後其中的一個小螺絲釘其實這是我們司法體系我們內部自省很多人共同努力來促成平反的那包括檢察界跟法院我們都共同為這件事情做一個平反是很多人的努力再次\n1083257\t1110967\t特別要提出說明也感謝很多一起合作的夥伴讓這件事情終於可以完成讓被害人的清白至於這件案子真的也是拖了很久所以今天委員您提到就是說關於這種結構性的歷史性的這種迫害我也覺得應該要有一個制度去做一個類似像它應該也是轉型正義的一環\n1111888\t1126929\t應該去做這些努力那我覺得這還是可以是可以多方去討論就是說該如何突破他的這個追溯權的限制然後去追溯我比較擔心的是其實如果是\n1127930\t1145311\t平反像現在已經有很多歷史的重新的詮釋新的故事在讓我們了解但是如果是訴訟法上面的確實我們可能要從多方面去努力\n1146536\t1165607\t我想這個部分因為它也是回到跟剛剛那個題目其實有點接近的就是性侵害的追溯時間好那我其實是蠻期待就是說未來如果您擔任這個大法官的時候其實是可以來做更多的就是針對這個題目來做一些說明因為其實我想最後一個因為時間有限我簡單來問我最後一個問題就是說\n1172332\t1201692\t如果您擔任大法官我們遇到這樣子的釋憲申請你認為我們應該如何平序平衡正當的法律程序與實質正義呢因為正當的程序跟法律實質之間其實追求的是一種動態的平衡正當的法律程序我們保障的是國家權利行使的正當性可是如果我們一昧俱力行事我們就會忽略個案中明顯的不正義就會造成法治變成是一個壓迫的工具所以我想這個是需要大家一起來努力的所以我想問一下您會如何平衡呢\n1202852\t1227689\t其實剛才委員您提到的這些都是可能當然我不能去做假設性的問題然後我現在的身份也不適合去具體深入評論但是我想提出來各方面需要權衡的包括個人的基本權利第三人的權益還有社會的公共利益都是在憲法上做憲法審查的時候都必須要做衡量的\n1229508\t1233160\t好我想這個因為轉型正義的路還很長未來我們就一起來努力謝謝\n","txt":"謝謝主席,有請林立穎大法官麻煩備提名人\n委員好您好就是司法院大法官這幾年來呢攸關國家憲政制度的推動也協助國家奠定許多重要法案的一些論點因此對於時事和民生我想要跟被提名人來做一些請教首先呢就是有關於這次的\n土城發生了兩名姐妹遭受46歲的性性男子亂刀砍傷導致不幸身亡這件震驚社會的不幸事件我想有許多的思考我簡單整理了一下一些相關的事件的時間點\n首先是在整個案發前我自己整理的這個從案發前到7月7日案發殺害總共有五個機會我覺得好像我們可以來檢討一下首先就是針對於說我想在這個一開始案發前其實它是已經在取得保護令的一個狀態\n那前一天呢其實這個加害人呢已經違反保護令去這個住處大吵大鬧而且毀損了一些物品那我認為再來接下來就是關鍵的措施點跟第二點跟措施點第三點這樣子在這兩個公權力介入的時間點上面檢察官認為這是情節輕微但是證明其實就像剛剛說的他其實已經跑到受害人家都大吵大鬧了而且是已經有在保護令的狀態之下這其實已經是第一個警訊了\n老師呢隔天家事法庭法官也沒有進一步的裁定加害人去接受輔導處遇的計畫我認為不論是檢察官或者是法官其實都沒有實質的具體的作為認為加害人是情緒不穩定恐怕會釀成大禍的一個可能性所以呢我想請教被提名人就是在您豐富的一個檢察官的生涯裡面一定有\n偵辦過許多案件面對這樣子一個不幸的案件我們可以怎麼樣去確保被害人的生命安全專家和學者其實也有一些提醒就是保護令的核發前後會是關係人情緒最激動的時候都希望大家可以多注意但是我們不可能只叫民眾自己多注意對不對我們應該還是要有一些實質的做法所以我想要跟被提名來討論我們有沒有可能來參考一些英國的案例例如說像這個2021年\n2021年英國的家庭暴力法案他大幅的加強了對家暴受害者的法律保護首先呢就是對於施暴者的一個限制措施他是可以量身定做的一些限制的機制就例如說他可以要求施暴者接受行為矯正課程或是酒飲藥物治療等等等等的而且更\n不一樣的地方是他們的法院可以並備賦予明確的權利命令電子監控甚至可以施令我們這個施暴者要佩戴電子標記可能是腳療之類的來監測他是否有遵守同時施暴者也有通報的義務要向警方提供現在的住址等資訊的更新\n讓政府可以去追蹤如果需要的話他還可以規範禁止施暴者在特定距離出現禁止透過電話或網路聯繫受害人那這個做法在2023年事辦之後呢中部地區針對500名高風險的家暴嫌苛者在出獄後強制佩戴GPS電子腳鐐\n這個成效其實蠻不錯的大概有2700個受害人免於遭受服刑中的施暴者騷擾所以我想請教就是說像英國這麼重視人權的國家對於加害人的保障其實也都開始使用像這樣子的電子標示的方式來確保我們這些人不會被受害那我也想請教您認為經過這個事件我們是否也應該要來思考\n納入這樣子的一個電子標誌的可行性不能夠讓我們的家保保護令只是一張行政命令而是可以實際保護我們被害人的保護傘可不可以請您發表您的一些想法\n謝謝委員的提問對這個案件也表達遺憾不過我就不對個案評論但是委員有提供很多國外的案例來供我們參考尤其他們的這個制度像電子監控這樣的制度那其實目前電子監控設備在我國也其實有引進的\n那目前最初剛開始是在做性侵害犯的這個假釋期間的這個保護管束的這個附帶的一個措施那這幾年也慢慢就引進作為交保被告的防逃機制之一那看起來成效不能說完美但是事實上可以提升有效的提升這些比如說防止他去做繼續做危害行為的這個目的可以監測他到底在哪裡對對\n這個效果是不錯的所以目前如果可以試辦到對比如說在保護令可以附加這種電子監控那其實應該效果會更好因為就我所知保護令常常是要求\n而不得去離被害人幾公尺住家幾公尺之內不能靠近辦公室幾公尺之內不能靠近其實如果是只有這樣子的命令一張紙其實很難執行重視我們現在其實有一些警力或者說是社工在輔助但是人力畢竟是有限的而且時間那麼長\n那我想電子監控確實是一個非常不錯的也謝謝委員這種提示那當然如果大院可以通過相關的立法的話那我想可能就可以立刻讓這個制度可以實現讓受害家暴的被害人可以更多保障我想這可以如果就聽起來就是您的立場是其實蠻支持的往這個方向來給我們被害人或是這些家暴的受害者\n可以有更多的一些保障嘛對不對那接下來我也想要請教一樣是在兒少保護的這個領域也是一樣是一個爭議的案件就是之前黃子佼在創意私訪的一個案件當時呢他去年被查出持有兒少性剝削影像但是初期檢察官只有對他作出緩起訴結果導致社會強烈的反彈民間高度的關注跟不滿那最後呢是發回續行偵查最終在五月的時候將他正式起訴\n這個事件其實是反映了我們目前的制度上面面對兒少性影響性剝削這些案件的時候我們對於持有行為的嚴重性跟社會期待之間其實存在著落差也凸顯出檢查體系第一時間對此類的兒少保護意識和法律適用還是有檢討跟精進的空間\n所以當時黃子嬌他會被還起訴我記得那時候我有看那個書他裡面是寫說因為他認為黃子嬌態度良好且持有的少年性向只有供他自己看並沒有散佈或販售因此只給他還起訴兩年\n那雖然說根據刑事訴訟法第253條之一的規定檢察官得參酌刑法第57條所列情況及公共利益斟酌是否對被告為緩起訴處分但是我認為這件事情其實是這個持有的行為呢其實是牽涉到兒少保護的一個核心價值因為他的影像可能會擴散到其他的外流會帶來很大的一個實質影響\n那這已經不是單純個案可以衡量的範疇也抵觸了整個社會對於兒少保護的一個要求跟公共利益的基本底線\n所以呢如果使用緩起訴就會顯示出我們對於兒少保護觀念並沒有這個觀念呢其實並沒有在檢察官所認定的公共利益但也會削弱司法對於兒少性剝削犯罪的防治意志也可能造成社會的一個錯誤的示範效應所以這件事情呢其實蠻值得檢討我們現行的緩起訴制度對特定的犯罪類型是否應設限\n或增設明確的排除條款來符合公共利益與兒少最佳利益的要求那目前呢其實司法官呢其實是有一些相關的一個課程讓檢察官學習兒少訓問的一個技巧來減少對被害兒少的二次傷害但是在整體的兒少保護制度我們其實是很少去針對於兒少保護和起訴之間來進行討論這也就會造成了所謂的認知的落差也難以落實真正的兒少最佳利益\n所以我想請教就是說您長期擔任檢察官您認為檢察官在面對涉及兒少的刑事案件時我們應該如何妥適的運用起訴還起訴或不起訴等處分權限才能夠真正的落實兒少保護\n關於兒少保護我因為之前擔任主任檢察官的期間大概有三年也在婦幼組如果我回想我們當時會運用到譬如說起訴那大概就是性侵害案件或者說是比較嚴重的一些妨礙性自主的案件甚至是集團性的犯罪\n會還起訴的其實不多通常是所謂的兩小無猜的案件那因為兩小無猜現在只要這個一方未滿一定的歲數就會有構成這個一定的刑責所以\n當時也許雙方是有感情的只是父母反對那這時候我們會透過一些這個庭外的機制雙方如果都可以和解父母也可以接受的話就會進行緩起訴那至於不起訴那當然如果是證據不足的即使他是重罪我們證據不足也只能不起訴處分\n那就像刚才委员您提到的其实第一审检察官所做的起诉所做的还起诉不进入法院的还起诉或这个不起诉其实还是有监督机制的他还是可以去救济像刚才委员您提到的那个案件其实我们高检署就是有撤销发挥要他再行侦查那这个也是一个我们司法机关自己内部的一个过滤审查机制\n這件事情最主要是想要表達就是說我們可能對於兒少因為一開始檢察官在做這個緩起訴的時候他其實是沒有理解到這件事情對兒少的影響那我想這也是我們希望整個整個體系啦司法體系裡面都可以更理解這個兒少的這個概念這樣子\n一樣繼續是兒少相關的議題就是說我們現在因為大法官其實是人事未定所以我們憲法法庭的審理程序陷入停擺其實有很多的重要案件遲遲無法受理其實有一件事情非常非常受到許多社會的關注就是兒少性侵案件的追溯失效的問題\n好 那這個問題我就合併了 待會我也會去講轉型正義好 這個也是追溯時效的一個問題就是在根據法務部的統計自民國93年到113年底已經有1040件性侵案件因為時效屆滿 遭檢察官不起訴這代表有1040個勇敢提出指控的受害 被害人連法院大門都無法跨進一步\n這不只是法律制度的缺失也對他們其實是第二次的傷害所以說時效制度原意其實是要保障證據穩定與訴訟效率但是在兒少性侵案件中卻往往與被害人創傷沉默長期壓抑的實際狀況產生衝突其實我們不能夠忽視這樣子的一個制度性的排除跟壓迫所以\n也許將來極有可能需要透過憲法層次的審查檢視我們現行的追溯實相是否違反憲法所保障的訴訟權與人性尊嚴是我認為是當前憲法法庭不容忽視的一個重要課題那其實呢這幾年不管是很多的民間團體像人本利新啊其實他們都揭發了相關的案件\n像是有一個去年4月報導者有報導一個2023年有一位匿名叫S的他在事發中超過20年才向他的母校國小提出投訴可是最後還是因為超過了追溯期而無法起訴\n根據我們刑法第80條 針對性侵的這些相關案件最長其實是可以達到30年了但是這項延長是至2006年7月1日修正施行之後才開始適用將原先的20年拉成30年但是如果是發生在這之前的即便他提告都會被一御追溯時效追溯時效為由而駁回\n所以呢我想就是其實澳洲的許多的澳洲的皇家委會的調查性侵的被害人其實平均要超過23.6年才有辦法訴說自己的創傷經歷男性有更長\n所以刑法追溯時效制度的設計是否在特定情況下其實已經構成了對憲法保障的訴訟權跟人性尊嚴的侵害我認為這個是一個非常關鍵的地方我也認為我們必須要重新檢討目前的追溯時效的一個設計所以我想請問您認為延長對於這樣兒少性侵案您認為是否可以延長或者是取消才能夠讓我們的被害人真正有足夠的時間去告罰得到\n讓加害者得到應有的懲罰呢?\n謝謝委員的提問關於這個問題也是我們很重視的問題我個人也非常重視我留學德國一陣子那也知道德國對於性侵害相關的追溯權時效他對於受害人的追溯權時效他的起算點如果他是在幼年被性侵的話他的時效起算是從他成年之後才開始起算\n除了德國之外各國都有不同的針對性侵害犯的追溯權時效他有做特別的設計讓他可以拉長延長或取消甚至是取消沒錯有一些國際公約也認為應該要做取消時效追溯的任務那麼我覺得第一個階段我們可以做的我覺得還是在大院的手裡只要大院願意支持這樣的法案通過的話應該速度會更快\n我想這個其實但是因為大法官還是蠻重要又要來解釋這件事情所以我還是會有這樣子的期待不過聽起來您應該是支持往這個方向去努力的對不對好那接下來也是一樣其實我有特別關注到您在朱慶恩冤案的一個堅持跟努力\n就是即便當事人其實已經過世了可是你沒有放棄追求司法的正義持續推動這個非常上述與再審讓這個當事人在去世22年之後獲判無罪我認為這是為無辜者洗刷冤屈\n而且也創下我國檢察官成功為已故被告人平反的司法先例我也非常的感謝您對於法治與人權保障的一個努力那接下來就想要請教可是我們還有許多的受害者到現在還是沒有得到真正的平反那最主要就是說在很多的政治檔案條例通過之後呢很多人才知道他的家人死亡的真相是什麼\n那這些都是在2019年之後才發生的在這之前其實是沒有辦法得到這些資訊那可是現在一樣殺人罪的追溯時效為30年可是解嚴現在都已經超過38年了\n依據法律不溯及既往這線其實是在現在的法律架構之下它無法獲得補償可是就如同您剛剛有提到就是說德國其實都有很多更能夠去看到這些困境這個制度上面去做一些調整好 那不管是德國也好它其實在1979年就已經完全刪除了謀殺罪追訴權的實相\n亞洲的韓國也在1995年制定了518民主化運動特別法以及迫害憲政秩序犯罪之公訴時效特別法那都有明文的去講說要排除公訴時效也就是破壞憲政秩序罪與集體殺人罪可無限期追溯所以我想請教您針對於這樣子的一個歷史性結構性的國家性暴力您認為是否該直接打破刑法的追溯期的限制將期限繼續往後延或是可以無限期的追溯呢\n謝謝委員首先我要先澄清朱慶恩一案不是我一個人的這個我只是做最後其中的一個小螺絲釘其實這是我們司法體系我們內部自省很多人共同努力來促成平反的那包括檢察界跟法院我們都共同為這件事情做一個平反是很多人的努力再次\n特別要提出說明也感謝很多一起合作的夥伴讓這件事情終於可以完成讓被害人的清白至於這件案子真的也是拖了很久所以今天委員您提到就是說關於這種結構性的歷史性的這種迫害我也覺得應該要有一個制度去做一個類似像它應該也是轉型正義的一環\n應該去做這些努力那我覺得這還是可以是可以多方去討論就是說該如何突破他的這個追溯權的限制然後去追溯我比較擔心的是其實如果是\n平反像現在已經有很多歷史的重新的詮釋新的故事在讓我們了解但是如果是訴訟法上面的確實我們可能要從多方面去努力\n我想這個部分因為它也是回到跟剛剛那個題目其實有點接近的就是性侵害的追溯時間好那我其實是蠻期待就是說未來如果您擔任這個大法官的時候其實是可以來做更多的就是針對這個題目來做一些說明因為其實我想最後一個因為時間有限我簡單來問我最後一個問題就是說\n如果您擔任大法官我們遇到這樣子的釋憲申請你認為我們應該如何平序平衡正當的法律程序與實質正義呢因為正當的程序跟法律實質之間其實追求的是一種動態的平衡正當的法律程序我們保障的是國家權利行使的正當性可是如果我們一昧俱力行事我們就會忽略個案中明顯的不正義就會造成法治變成是一個壓迫的工具所以我想這個是需要大家一起來努力的所以我想問一下您會如何平衡呢\n其實剛才委員您提到的這些都是可能當然我不能去做假設性的問題然後我現在的身份也不適合去具體深入評論但是我想提出來各方面需要權衡的包括個人的基本權利第三人的權益還有社會的公共利益都是在憲法上做憲法審查的時候都必須要做衡量的\n好我想這個因為轉型正義的路還很長未來我們就一起來努力謝謝\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:12.958 --> 00:16.441\n謝謝主席,有請林立穎大法官麻煩備提名人\n\n00:29.059 --> 00:44.748\n委員好您好就是司法院大法官這幾年來呢攸關國家憲政制度的推動也協助國家奠定許多重要法案的一些論點因此對於時事和民生我想要跟被提名人來做一些請教首先呢就是有關於這次的\n\n00:45.709 --> 00:59.855\n土城發生了兩名姐妹遭受46歲的性性男子亂刀砍傷導致不幸身亡這件震驚社會的不幸事件我想有許多的思考我簡單整理了一下一些相關的事件的時間點\n\n01:01.363 --> 01:19.024\n首先是在整個案發前我自己整理的這個從案發前到7月7日案發殺害總共有五個機會我覺得好像我們可以來檢討一下首先就是針對於說我想在這個一開始案發前其實它是已經在取得保護令的一個狀態\n\n01:20.365 --> 01:49.264\n那前一天呢其實這個加害人呢已經違反保護令去這個住處大吵大鬧而且毀損了一些物品那我認為再來接下來就是關鍵的措施點跟第二點跟措施點第三點這樣子在這兩個公權力介入的時間點上面檢察官認為這是情節輕微但是證明其實就像剛剛說的他其實已經跑到受害人家都大吵大鬧了而且是已經有在保護令的狀態之下這其實已經是第一個警訊了\n\n01:50.725 --> 02:14.984\n老師呢隔天家事法庭法官也沒有進一步的裁定加害人去接受輔導處遇的計畫我認為不論是檢察官或者是法官其實都沒有實質的具體的作為認為加害人是情緒不穩定恐怕會釀成大禍的一個可能性所以呢我想請教被提名人就是在您豐富的一個檢察官的生涯裡面一定有\n\n02:15.956 --> 02:44.195\n偵辦過許多案件面對這樣子一個不幸的案件我們可以怎麼樣去確保被害人的生命安全專家和學者其實也有一些提醒就是保護令的核發前後會是關係人情緒最激動的時候都希望大家可以多注意但是我們不可能只叫民眾自己多注意對不對我們應該還是要有一些實質的做法所以我想要跟被提名來討論我們有沒有可能來參考一些英國的案例例如說像這個2021年\n\n02:46.656 --> 03:07.930\n2021年英國的家庭暴力法案他大幅的加強了對家暴受害者的法律保護首先呢就是對於施暴者的一個限制措施他是可以量身定做的一些限制的機制就例如說他可以要求施暴者接受行為矯正課程或是酒飲藥物治療等等等等的而且更\n\n03:08.590 --> 03:30.769\n不一樣的地方是他們的法院可以並備賦予明確的權利命令電子監控甚至可以施令我們這個施暴者要佩戴電子標記可能是腳療之類的來監測他是否有遵守同時施暴者也有通報的義務要向警方提供現在的住址等資訊的更新\n\n03:32.171 --> 03:53.032\n讓政府可以去追蹤如果需要的話他還可以規範禁止施暴者在特定距離出現禁止透過電話或網路聯繫受害人那這個做法在2023年事辦之後呢中部地區針對500名高風險的家暴嫌苛者在出獄後強制佩戴GPS電子腳鐐\n\n03:55.014 --> 04:19.546\n這個成效其實蠻不錯的大概有2700個受害人免於遭受服刑中的施暴者騷擾所以我想請教就是說像英國這麼重視人權的國家對於加害人的保障其實也都開始使用像這樣子的電子標示的方式來確保我們這些人不會被受害那我也想請教您認為經過這個事件我們是否也應該要來思考\n\n04:20.887 --> 04:34.349\n納入這樣子的一個電子標誌的可行性不能夠讓我們的家保保護令只是一張行政命令而是可以實際保護我們被害人的保護傘可不可以請您發表您的一些想法\n\n04:36.148 --> 04:55.984\n謝謝委員的提問對這個案件也表達遺憾不過我就不對個案評論但是委員有提供很多國外的案例來供我們參考尤其他們的這個制度像電子監控這樣的制度那其實目前電子監控設備在我國也其實有引進的\n\n04:56.584 --> 05:23.630\n那目前最初剛開始是在做性侵害犯的這個假釋期間的這個保護管束的這個附帶的一個措施那這幾年也慢慢就引進作為交保被告的防逃機制之一那看起來成效不能說完美但是事實上可以提升有效的提升這些比如說防止他去做繼續做危害行為的這個目的可以監測他到底在哪裡對對\n\n05:25.571 --> 05:39.470\n這個效果是不錯的所以目前如果可以試辦到對比如說在保護令可以附加這種電子監控那其實應該效果會更好因為就我所知保護令常常是要求\n\n05:40.091 --> 06:01.814\n而不得去離被害人幾公尺住家幾公尺之內不能靠近辦公室幾公尺之內不能靠近其實如果是只有這樣子的命令一張紙其實很難執行重視我們現在其實有一些警力或者說是社工在輔助但是人力畢竟是有限的而且時間那麼長\n\n06:03.075 --> 06:27.968\n那我想電子監控確實是一個非常不錯的也謝謝委員這種提示那當然如果大院可以通過相關的立法的話那我想可能就可以立刻讓這個制度可以實現讓受害家暴的被害人可以更多保障我想這可以如果就聽起來就是您的立場是其實蠻支持的往這個方向來給我們被害人或是這些家暴的受害者\n\n06:28.448 --> 06:56.637\n可以有更多的一些保障嘛對不對那接下來我也想要請教一樣是在兒少保護的這個領域也是一樣是一個爭議的案件就是之前黃子佼在創意私訪的一個案件當時呢他去年被查出持有兒少性剝削影像但是初期檢察官只有對他作出緩起訴結果導致社會強烈的反彈民間高度的關注跟不滿那最後呢是發回續行偵查最終在五月的時候將他正式起訴\n\n06:58.454 --> 07:20.151\n這個事件其實是反映了我們目前的制度上面面對兒少性影響性剝削這些案件的時候我們對於持有行為的嚴重性跟社會期待之間其實存在著落差也凸顯出檢查體系第一時間對此類的兒少保護意識和法律適用還是有檢討跟精進的空間\n\n07:22.412 --> 07:39.263\n所以當時黃子嬌他會被還起訴我記得那時候我有看那個書他裡面是寫說因為他認為黃子嬌態度良好且持有的少年性向只有供他自己看並沒有散佈或販售因此只給他還起訴兩年\n\n07:41.417 --> 08:06.236\n那雖然說根據刑事訴訟法第253條之一的規定檢察官得參酌刑法第57條所列情況及公共利益斟酌是否對被告為緩起訴處分但是我認為這件事情其實是這個持有的行為呢其實是牽涉到兒少保護的一個核心價值因為他的影像可能會擴散到其他的外流會帶來很大的一個實質影響\n\n08:07.637 --> 08:15.296\n那這已經不是單純個案可以衡量的範疇也抵觸了整個社會對於兒少保護的一個要求跟公共利益的基本底線\n\n08:16.513 --> 08:41.542\n所以呢如果使用緩起訴就會顯示出我們對於兒少保護觀念並沒有這個觀念呢其實並沒有在檢察官所認定的公共利益但也會削弱司法對於兒少性剝削犯罪的防治意志也可能造成社會的一個錯誤的示範效應所以這件事情呢其實蠻值得檢討我們現行的緩起訴制度對特定的犯罪類型是否應設限\n\n08:43.143 --> 09:10.861\n或增設明確的排除條款來符合公共利益與兒少最佳利益的要求那目前呢其實司法官呢其實是有一些相關的一個課程讓檢察官學習兒少訓問的一個技巧來減少對被害兒少的二次傷害但是在整體的兒少保護制度我們其實是很少去針對於兒少保護和起訴之間來進行討論這也就會造成了所謂的認知的落差也難以落實真正的兒少最佳利益\n\n09:14.744 --> 09:30.018\n所以我想請教就是說您長期擔任檢察官您認為檢察官在面對涉及兒少的刑事案件時我們應該如何妥適的運用起訴還起訴或不起訴等處分權限才能夠真正的落實兒少保護\n\n09:32.910 --> 09:56.377\n關於兒少保護我因為之前擔任主任檢察官的期間大概有三年也在婦幼組如果我回想我們當時會運用到譬如說起訴那大概就是性侵害案件或者說是比較嚴重的一些妨礙性自主的案件甚至是集團性的犯罪\n\n09:58.418 --> 10:13.808\n會還起訴的其實不多通常是所謂的兩小無猜的案件那因為兩小無猜現在只要這個一方未滿一定的歲數就會有構成這個一定的刑責所以\n\n10:15.108 --> 10:36.094\n當時也許雙方是有感情的只是父母反對那這時候我們會透過一些這個庭外的機制雙方如果都可以和解父母也可以接受的話就會進行緩起訴那至於不起訴那當然如果是證據不足的即使他是重罪我們證據不足也只能不起訴處分\n\n10:37.214 --> 11:04.940\n那就像刚才委员您提到的其实第一审检察官所做的起诉所做的还起诉不进入法院的还起诉或这个不起诉其实还是有监督机制的他还是可以去救济像刚才委员您提到的那个案件其实我们高检署就是有撤销发挥要他再行侦查那这个也是一个我们司法机关自己内部的一个过滤审查机制\n\n11:07.261 --> 11:25.414\n這件事情最主要是想要表達就是說我們可能對於兒少因為一開始檢察官在做這個緩起訴的時候他其實是沒有理解到這件事情對兒少的影響那我想這也是我們希望整個整個體系啦司法體系裡面都可以更理解這個兒少的這個概念這樣子\n\n11:28.356 --> 11:50.576\n一樣繼續是兒少相關的議題就是說我們現在因為大法官其實是人事未定所以我們憲法法庭的審理程序陷入停擺其實有很多的重要案件遲遲無法受理其實有一件事情非常非常受到許多社會的關注就是兒少性侵案件的追溯失效的問題\n\n11:51.752 --> 12:17.674\n好那這個問題我就合併了待會我也會去講轉型正義好這個也是追溯時效的一個問題就是在根據法務部的統計自民國93年到113年底已經有1040件性侵案件因為時效屆滿遭檢察官不起訴這代表有1040個勇敢提出指控的受害被害人連法院大門都無法跨進一步\n\n12:18.434 --> 12:40.420\n這不只是法律制度的缺失也對他們其實是第二次的傷害所以說時效制度原意其實是要保障證據穩定與訴訟效率但是在兒少性侵案件中卻往往與被害人創傷沉默長期壓抑的實際狀況產生衝突其實我們不能夠忽視這樣子的一個制度性的排除跟壓迫所以\n\n12:41.400 --> 13:02.431\n也許將來極有可能需要透過憲法層次的審查檢視我們現行的追溯實相是否違反憲法所保障的訴訟權與人性尊嚴是我認為是當前憲法法庭不容忽視的一個重要課題那其實呢這幾年不管是很多的民間團體像人本利新啊其實他們都揭發了相關的案件\n\n13:03.411 --> 13:21.674\n像是有一個去年4月報導者有報導一個2023年有一位匿名叫S的他在事發中超過20年才向他的母校國小提出投訴可是最後還是因為超過了追溯期而無法起訴\n\n13:24.119 --> 13:48.729\n根據我們刑法第80條針對性侵的這些相關案件最長其實是可以達到30年了但是這項延長是至2006年7月1日修正施行之後才開始適用將原先的20年拉成30年但是如果是發生在這之前的即便他提告都會被一御追溯時效追溯時效為由而駁回\n\n13:50.407 --> 14:02.421\n所以呢我想就是其實澳洲的許多的澳洲的皇家委會的調查性侵的被害人其實平均要超過23.6年才有辦法訴說自己的創傷經歷男性有更長\n\n14:03.933 --> 14:31.352\n所以刑法追溯時效制度的設計是否在特定情況下其實已經構成了對憲法保障的訴訟權跟人性尊嚴的侵害我認為這個是一個非常關鍵的地方我也認為我們必須要重新檢討目前的追溯時效的一個設計所以我想請問您認為延長對於這樣兒少性侵案您認為是否可以延長或者是取消才能夠讓我們的被害人真正有足夠的時間去告罰得到\n\n14:32.115 --> 14:33.728\n讓加害者得到應有的懲罰呢?\n\n14:35.491 --> 15:01.246\n謝謝委員的提問關於這個問題也是我們很重視的問題我個人也非常重視我留學德國一陣子那也知道德國對於性侵害相關的追溯權時效他對於受害人的追溯權時效他的起算點如果他是在幼年被性侵的話他的時效起算是從他成年之後才開始起算\n\n15:02.126 --> 15:31.446\n除了德國之外各國都有不同的針對性侵害犯的追溯權時效他有做特別的設計讓他可以拉長延長或取消甚至是取消沒錯有一些國際公約也認為應該要做取消時效追溯的任務那麼我覺得第一個階段我們可以做的我覺得還是在大院的手裡只要大院願意支持這樣的法案通過的話應該速度會更快\n\n15:32.006 --> 15:49.283\n我想這個其實但是因為大法官還是蠻重要又要來解釋這件事情所以我還是會有這樣子的期待不過聽起來您應該是支持往這個方向去努力的對不對好那接下來也是一樣其實我有特別關注到您在朱慶恩冤案的一個堅持跟努力\n\n15:49.924 --> 16:05.211\n就是即便當事人其實已經過世了可是你沒有放棄追求司法的正義持續推動這個非常上述與再審讓這個當事人在去世22年之後獲判無罪我認為這是為無辜者洗刷冤屈\n\n16:05.971 --> 16:29.233\n而且也創下我國檢察官成功為已故被告人平反的司法先例我也非常的感謝您對於法治與人權保障的一個努力那接下來就想要請教可是我們還有許多的受害者到現在還是沒有得到真正的平反那最主要就是說在很多的政治檔案條例通過之後呢很多人才知道他的家人死亡的真相是什麼\n\n16:30.558 --> 16:44.477\n那這些都是在2019年之後才發生的在這之前其實是沒有辦法得到這些資訊那可是現在一樣殺人罪的追溯時效為30年可是解嚴現在都已經超過38年了\n\n16:46.440 --> 17:05.758\n依據法律不溯及既往這線其實是在現在的法律架構之下它無法獲得補償可是就如同您剛剛有提到就是說德國其實都有很多更能夠去看到這些困境這個制度上面去做一些調整好那不管是德國也好它其實在1979年就已經完全刪除了謀殺罪追訴權的實相\n\n17:09.822 --> 17:39.462\n亞洲的韓國也在1995年制定了518民主化運動特別法以及迫害憲政秩序犯罪之公訴時效特別法那都有明文的去講說要排除公訴時效也就是破壞憲政秩序罪與集體殺人罪可無限期追溯所以我想請教您針對於這樣子的一個歷史性結構性的國家性暴力您認為是否該直接打破刑法的追溯期的限制將期限繼續往後延或是可以無限期的追溯呢\n\n17:41.263 --> 18:02.877\n謝謝委員首先我要先澄清朱慶恩一案不是我一個人的這個我只是做最後其中的一個小螺絲釘其實這是我們司法體系我們內部自省很多人共同努力來促成平反的那包括檢察界跟法院我們都共同為這件事情做一個平反是很多人的努力再次\n\n18:03.257 --> 18:30.967\n特別要提出說明也感謝很多一起合作的夥伴讓這件事情終於可以完成讓被害人的清白至於這件案子真的也是拖了很久所以今天委員您提到就是說關於這種結構性的歷史性的這種迫害我也覺得應該要有一個制度去做一個類似像它應該也是轉型正義的一環\n\n18:31.888 --> 18:46.929\n應該去做這些努力那我覺得這還是可以是可以多方去討論就是說該如何突破他的這個追溯權的限制然後去追溯我比較擔心的是其實如果是\n\n18:47.930 --> 19:05.311\n平反像現在已經有很多歷史的重新的詮釋新的故事在讓我們了解但是如果是訴訟法上面的確實我們可能要從多方面去努力\n\n19:06.536 --> 19:25.607\n我想這個部分因為它也是回到跟剛剛那個題目其實有點接近的就是性侵害的追溯時間好那我其實是蠻期待就是說未來如果您擔任這個大法官的時候其實是可以來做更多的就是針對這個題目來做一些說明因為其實我想最後一個因為時間有限我簡單來問我最後一個問題就是說\n\n19:32.332 --> 20:01.692\n如果您擔任大法官我們遇到這樣子的釋憲申請你認為我們應該如何平序平衡正當的法律程序與實質正義呢因為正當的程序跟法律實質之間其實追求的是一種動態的平衡正當的法律程序我們保障的是國家權利行使的正當性可是如果我們一昧俱力行事我們就會忽略個案中明顯的不正義就會造成法治變成是一個壓迫的工具所以我想這個是需要大家一起來努力的所以我想問一下您會如何平衡呢\n\n20:02.852 --> 20:27.689\n其實剛才委員您提到的這些都是可能當然我不能去做假設性的問題然後我現在的身份也不適合去具體深入評論但是我想提出來各方面需要權衡的包括個人的基本權利第三人的權益還有社會的公共利益都是在憲法上做憲法審查的時候都必須要做衡量的\n\n20:29.508 --> 20:33.160\n好我想這個因為轉型正義的路還很長未來我們就一起來努力謝謝\n\n","segments":[{"start":12.958,"end":16.441,"text":"謝謝主席,有請林立穎大法官麻煩備提名人"},{"start":29.059,"end":44.748,"text":"委員好您好就是司法院大法官這幾年來呢攸關國家憲政制度的推動也協助國家奠定許多重要法案的一些論點因此對於時事和民生我想要跟被提名人來做一些請教首先呢就是有關於這次的"},{"start":45.709,"end":59.855,"text":"土城發生了兩名姐妹遭受46歲的性性男子亂刀砍傷導致不幸身亡這件震驚社會的不幸事件我想有許多的思考我簡單整理了一下一些相關的事件的時間點"},{"start":61.363,"end":79.024,"text":"首先是在整個案發前我自己整理的這個從案發前到7月7日案發殺害總共有五個機會我覺得好像我們可以來檢討一下首先就是針對於說我想在這個一開始案發前其實它是已經在取得保護令的一個狀態"},{"start":80.365,"end":109.264,"text":"那前一天呢其實這個加害人呢已經違反保護令去這個住處大吵大鬧而且毀損了一些物品那我認為再來接下來就是關鍵的措施點跟第二點跟措施點第三點這樣子在這兩個公權力介入的時間點上面檢察官認為這是情節輕微但是證明其實就像剛剛說的他其實已經跑到受害人家都大吵大鬧了而且是已經有在保護令的狀態之下這其實已經是第一個警訊了"},{"start":110.725,"end":134.984,"text":"老師呢隔天家事法庭法官也沒有進一步的裁定加害人去接受輔導處遇的計畫我認為不論是檢察官或者是法官其實都沒有實質的具體的作為認為加害人是情緒不穩定恐怕會釀成大禍的一個可能性所以呢我想請教被提名人就是在您豐富的一個檢察官的生涯裡面一定有"},{"start":135.956,"end":164.195,"text":"偵辦過許多案件面對這樣子一個不幸的案件我們可以怎麼樣去確保被害人的生命安全專家和學者其實也有一些提醒就是保護令的核發前後會是關係人情緒最激動的時候都希望大家可以多注意但是我們不可能只叫民眾自己多注意對不對我們應該還是要有一些實質的做法所以我想要跟被提名來討論我們有沒有可能來參考一些英國的案例例如說像這個2021年"},{"start":166.656,"end":187.93,"text":"2021年英國的家庭暴力法案他大幅的加強了對家暴受害者的法律保護首先呢就是對於施暴者的一個限制措施他是可以量身定做的一些限制的機制就例如說他可以要求施暴者接受行為矯正課程或是酒飲藥物治療等等等等的而且更"},{"start":188.59,"end":210.769,"text":"不一樣的地方是他們的法院可以並備賦予明確的權利命令電子監控甚至可以施令我們這個施暴者要佩戴電子標記可能是腳療之類的來監測他是否有遵守同時施暴者也有通報的義務要向警方提供現在的住址等資訊的更新"},{"start":212.171,"end":233.032,"text":"讓政府可以去追蹤如果需要的話他還可以規範禁止施暴者在特定距離出現禁止透過電話或網路聯繫受害人那這個做法在2023年事辦之後呢中部地區針對500名高風險的家暴嫌苛者在出獄後強制佩戴GPS電子腳鐐"},{"start":235.014,"end":259.546,"text":"這個成效其實蠻不錯的大概有2700個受害人免於遭受服刑中的施暴者騷擾所以我想請教就是說像英國這麼重視人權的國家對於加害人的保障其實也都開始使用像這樣子的電子標示的方式來確保我們這些人不會被受害那我也想請教您認為經過這個事件我們是否也應該要來思考"},{"start":260.887,"end":274.349,"text":"納入這樣子的一個電子標誌的可行性不能夠讓我們的家保保護令只是一張行政命令而是可以實際保護我們被害人的保護傘可不可以請您發表您的一些想法"},{"start":276.148,"end":295.984,"text":"謝謝委員的提問對這個案件也表達遺憾不過我就不對個案評論但是委員有提供很多國外的案例來供我們參考尤其他們的這個制度像電子監控這樣的制度那其實目前電子監控設備在我國也其實有引進的"},{"start":296.584,"end":323.63,"text":"那目前最初剛開始是在做性侵害犯的這個假釋期間的這個保護管束的這個附帶的一個措施那這幾年也慢慢就引進作為交保被告的防逃機制之一那看起來成效不能說完美但是事實上可以提升有效的提升這些比如說防止他去做繼續做危害行為的這個目的可以監測他到底在哪裡對對"},{"start":325.571,"end":339.47,"text":"這個效果是不錯的所以目前如果可以試辦到對比如說在保護令可以附加這種電子監控那其實應該效果會更好因為就我所知保護令常常是要求"},{"start":340.091,"end":361.814,"text":"而不得去離被害人幾公尺住家幾公尺之內不能靠近辦公室幾公尺之內不能靠近其實如果是只有這樣子的命令一張紙其實很難執行重視我們現在其實有一些警力或者說是社工在輔助但是人力畢竟是有限的而且時間那麼長"},{"start":363.075,"end":387.968,"text":"那我想電子監控確實是一個非常不錯的也謝謝委員這種提示那當然如果大院可以通過相關的立法的話那我想可能就可以立刻讓這個制度可以實現讓受害家暴的被害人可以更多保障我想這可以如果就聽起來就是您的立場是其實蠻支持的往這個方向來給我們被害人或是這些家暴的受害者"},{"start":388.448,"end":416.637,"text":"可以有更多的一些保障嘛對不對那接下來我也想要請教一樣是在兒少保護的這個領域也是一樣是一個爭議的案件就是之前黃子佼在創意私訪的一個案件當時呢他去年被查出持有兒少性剝削影像但是初期檢察官只有對他作出緩起訴結果導致社會強烈的反彈民間高度的關注跟不滿那最後呢是發回續行偵查最終在五月的時候將他正式起訴"},{"start":418.454,"end":440.151,"text":"這個事件其實是反映了我們目前的制度上面面對兒少性影響性剝削這些案件的時候我們對於持有行為的嚴重性跟社會期待之間其實存在著落差也凸顯出檢查體系第一時間對此類的兒少保護意識和法律適用還是有檢討跟精進的空間"},{"start":442.412,"end":459.263,"text":"所以當時黃子嬌他會被還起訴我記得那時候我有看那個書他裡面是寫說因為他認為黃子嬌態度良好且持有的少年性向只有供他自己看並沒有散佈或販售因此只給他還起訴兩年"},{"start":461.417,"end":486.236,"text":"那雖然說根據刑事訴訟法第253條之一的規定檢察官得參酌刑法第57條所列情況及公共利益斟酌是否對被告為緩起訴處分但是我認為這件事情其實是這個持有的行為呢其實是牽涉到兒少保護的一個核心價值因為他的影像可能會擴散到其他的外流會帶來很大的一個實質影響"},{"start":487.637,"end":495.296,"text":"那這已經不是單純個案可以衡量的範疇也抵觸了整個社會對於兒少保護的一個要求跟公共利益的基本底線"},{"start":496.513,"end":521.542,"text":"所以呢如果使用緩起訴就會顯示出我們對於兒少保護觀念並沒有這個觀念呢其實並沒有在檢察官所認定的公共利益但也會削弱司法對於兒少性剝削犯罪的防治意志也可能造成社會的一個錯誤的示範效應所以這件事情呢其實蠻值得檢討我們現行的緩起訴制度對特定的犯罪類型是否應設限"},{"start":523.143,"end":550.861,"text":"或增設明確的排除條款來符合公共利益與兒少最佳利益的要求那目前呢其實司法官呢其實是有一些相關的一個課程讓檢察官學習兒少訓問的一個技巧來減少對被害兒少的二次傷害但是在整體的兒少保護制度我們其實是很少去針對於兒少保護和起訴之間來進行討論這也就會造成了所謂的認知的落差也難以落實真正的兒少最佳利益"},{"start":554.744,"end":570.018,"text":"所以我想請教就是說您長期擔任檢察官您認為檢察官在面對涉及兒少的刑事案件時我們應該如何妥適的運用起訴還起訴或不起訴等處分權限才能夠真正的落實兒少保護"},{"start":572.91,"end":596.377,"text":"關於兒少保護我因為之前擔任主任檢察官的期間大概有三年也在婦幼組如果我回想我們當時會運用到譬如說起訴那大概就是性侵害案件或者說是比較嚴重的一些妨礙性自主的案件甚至是集團性的犯罪"},{"start":598.418,"end":613.808,"text":"會還起訴的其實不多通常是所謂的兩小無猜的案件那因為兩小無猜現在只要這個一方未滿一定的歲數就會有構成這個一定的刑責所以"},{"start":615.108,"end":636.094,"text":"當時也許雙方是有感情的只是父母反對那這時候我們會透過一些這個庭外的機制雙方如果都可以和解父母也可以接受的話就會進行緩起訴那至於不起訴那當然如果是證據不足的即使他是重罪我們證據不足也只能不起訴處分"},{"start":637.214,"end":664.94,"text":"那就像刚才委员您提到的其实第一审检察官所做的起诉所做的还起诉不进入法院的还起诉或这个不起诉其实还是有监督机制的他还是可以去救济像刚才委员您提到的那个案件其实我们高检署就是有撤销发挥要他再行侦查那这个也是一个我们司法机关自己内部的一个过滤审查机制"},{"start":667.261,"end":685.414,"text":"這件事情最主要是想要表達就是說我們可能對於兒少因為一開始檢察官在做這個緩起訴的時候他其實是沒有理解到這件事情對兒少的影響那我想這也是我們希望整個整個體系啦司法體系裡面都可以更理解這個兒少的這個概念這樣子"},{"start":688.356,"end":710.576,"text":"一樣繼續是兒少相關的議題就是說我們現在因為大法官其實是人事未定所以我們憲法法庭的審理程序陷入停擺其實有很多的重要案件遲遲無法受理其實有一件事情非常非常受到許多社會的關注就是兒少性侵案件的追溯失效的問題"},{"start":711.752,"end":737.674,"text":"好 那這個問題我就合併了 待會我也會去講轉型正義好 這個也是追溯時效的一個問題就是在根據法務部的統計自民國93年到113年底已經有1040件性侵案件因為時效屆滿 遭檢察官不起訴這代表有1040個勇敢提出指控的受害 被害人連法院大門都無法跨進一步"},{"start":738.434,"end":760.42,"text":"這不只是法律制度的缺失也對他們其實是第二次的傷害所以說時效制度原意其實是要保障證據穩定與訴訟效率但是在兒少性侵案件中卻往往與被害人創傷沉默長期壓抑的實際狀況產生衝突其實我們不能夠忽視這樣子的一個制度性的排除跟壓迫所以"},{"start":761.4,"end":782.431,"text":"也許將來極有可能需要透過憲法層次的審查檢視我們現行的追溯實相是否違反憲法所保障的訴訟權與人性尊嚴是我認為是當前憲法法庭不容忽視的一個重要課題那其實呢這幾年不管是很多的民間團體像人本利新啊其實他們都揭發了相關的案件"},{"start":783.411,"end":801.674,"text":"像是有一個去年4月報導者有報導一個2023年有一位匿名叫S的他在事發中超過20年才向他的母校國小提出投訴可是最後還是因為超過了追溯期而無法起訴"},{"start":804.119,"end":828.729,"text":"根據我們刑法第80條 針對性侵的這些相關案件最長其實是可以達到30年了但是這項延長是至2006年7月1日修正施行之後才開始適用將原先的20年拉成30年但是如果是發生在這之前的即便他提告都會被一御追溯時效追溯時效為由而駁回"},{"start":830.407,"end":842.421,"text":"所以呢我想就是其實澳洲的許多的澳洲的皇家委會的調查性侵的被害人其實平均要超過23.6年才有辦法訴說自己的創傷經歷男性有更長"},{"start":843.933,"end":871.352,"text":"所以刑法追溯時效制度的設計是否在特定情況下其實已經構成了對憲法保障的訴訟權跟人性尊嚴的侵害我認為這個是一個非常關鍵的地方我也認為我們必須要重新檢討目前的追溯時效的一個設計所以我想請問您認為延長對於這樣兒少性侵案您認為是否可以延長或者是取消才能夠讓我們的被害人真正有足夠的時間去告罰得到"},{"start":872.115,"end":873.728,"text":"讓加害者得到應有的懲罰呢?"},{"start":875.491,"end":901.246,"text":"謝謝委員的提問關於這個問題也是我們很重視的問題我個人也非常重視我留學德國一陣子那也知道德國對於性侵害相關的追溯權時效他對於受害人的追溯權時效他的起算點如果他是在幼年被性侵的話他的時效起算是從他成年之後才開始起算"},{"start":902.126,"end":931.446,"text":"除了德國之外各國都有不同的針對性侵害犯的追溯權時效他有做特別的設計讓他可以拉長延長或取消甚至是取消沒錯有一些國際公約也認為應該要做取消時效追溯的任務那麼我覺得第一個階段我們可以做的我覺得還是在大院的手裡只要大院願意支持這樣的法案通過的話應該速度會更快"},{"start":932.006,"end":949.283,"text":"我想這個其實但是因為大法官還是蠻重要又要來解釋這件事情所以我還是會有這樣子的期待不過聽起來您應該是支持往這個方向去努力的對不對好那接下來也是一樣其實我有特別關注到您在朱慶恩冤案的一個堅持跟努力"},{"start":949.924,"end":965.211,"text":"就是即便當事人其實已經過世了可是你沒有放棄追求司法的正義持續推動這個非常上述與再審讓這個當事人在去世22年之後獲判無罪我認為這是為無辜者洗刷冤屈"},{"start":965.971,"end":989.233,"text":"而且也創下我國檢察官成功為已故被告人平反的司法先例我也非常的感謝您對於法治與人權保障的一個努力那接下來就想要請教可是我們還有許多的受害者到現在還是沒有得到真正的平反那最主要就是說在很多的政治檔案條例通過之後呢很多人才知道他的家人死亡的真相是什麼"},{"start":990.558,"end":1004.477,"text":"那這些都是在2019年之後才發生的在這之前其實是沒有辦法得到這些資訊那可是現在一樣殺人罪的追溯時效為30年可是解嚴現在都已經超過38年了"},{"start":1006.44,"end":1025.758,"text":"依據法律不溯及既往這線其實是在現在的法律架構之下它無法獲得補償可是就如同您剛剛有提到就是說德國其實都有很多更能夠去看到這些困境這個制度上面去做一些調整好 那不管是德國也好它其實在1979年就已經完全刪除了謀殺罪追訴權的實相"},{"start":1029.822,"end":1059.462,"text":"亞洲的韓國也在1995年制定了518民主化運動特別法以及迫害憲政秩序犯罪之公訴時效特別法那都有明文的去講說要排除公訴時效也就是破壞憲政秩序罪與集體殺人罪可無限期追溯所以我想請教您針對於這樣子的一個歷史性結構性的國家性暴力您認為是否該直接打破刑法的追溯期的限制將期限繼續往後延或是可以無限期的追溯呢"},{"start":1061.263,"end":1082.877,"text":"謝謝委員首先我要先澄清朱慶恩一案不是我一個人的這個我只是做最後其中的一個小螺絲釘其實這是我們司法體系我們內部自省很多人共同努力來促成平反的那包括檢察界跟法院我們都共同為這件事情做一個平反是很多人的努力再次"},{"start":1083.257,"end":1110.967,"text":"特別要提出說明也感謝很多一起合作的夥伴讓這件事情終於可以完成讓被害人的清白至於這件案子真的也是拖了很久所以今天委員您提到就是說關於這種結構性的歷史性的這種迫害我也覺得應該要有一個制度去做一個類似像它應該也是轉型正義的一環"},{"start":1111.888,"end":1126.929,"text":"應該去做這些努力那我覺得這還是可以是可以多方去討論就是說該如何突破他的這個追溯權的限制然後去追溯我比較擔心的是其實如果是"},{"start":1127.93,"end":1145.311,"text":"平反像現在已經有很多歷史的重新的詮釋新的故事在讓我們了解但是如果是訴訟法上面的確實我們可能要從多方面去努力"},{"start":1146.536,"end":1165.607,"text":"我想這個部分因為它也是回到跟剛剛那個題目其實有點接近的就是性侵害的追溯時間好那我其實是蠻期待就是說未來如果您擔任這個大法官的時候其實是可以來做更多的就是針對這個題目來做一些說明因為其實我想最後一個因為時間有限我簡單來問我最後一個問題就是說"},{"start":1172.332,"end":1201.692,"text":"如果您擔任大法官我們遇到這樣子的釋憲申請你認為我們應該如何平序平衡正當的法律程序與實質正義呢因為正當的程序跟法律實質之間其實追求的是一種動態的平衡正當的法律程序我們保障的是國家權利行使的正當性可是如果我們一昧俱力行事我們就會忽略個案中明顯的不正義就會造成法治變成是一個壓迫的工具所以我想這個是需要大家一起來努力的所以我想問一下您會如何平衡呢"},{"start":1202.852,"end":1227.689,"text":"其實剛才委員您提到的這些都是可能當然我不能去做假設性的問題然後我現在的身份也不適合去具體深入評論但是我想提出來各方面需要權衡的包括個人的基本權利第三人的權益還有社會的公共利益都是在憲法上做憲法審查的時候都必須要做衡量的"},{"start":1229.508,"end":1233.16,"text":"好我想這個因為轉型正義的路還很長未來我們就一起來努力謝謝"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":431,"blocks":[["張委員雅琳：（16時58分）謝謝主席，有請林麗瑩大法官被提名人。"],["主席：麻煩請被提名人。"],["林麗瑩被提名人：委員好。"],["張委員雅琳：您好。司法院大法官這幾年來攸關國家憲政制度的推動，也協助國家奠定許多重要法案的一些論點，因此對於時事和民生，我想要跟被提名人來做一些請教。首先就是有關於這一次土城發生兩名姐妹遭46歲謝姓男子亂刀砍傷導致不幸身亡，對於這件震驚社會的不幸事件，我想有許多的思考，我簡單整理了一下相關事件的時間點。","請看我自己整理的這張表，從案發前到7月7日案發殺害，總共有5個機會，我覺得好像我們可以來檢討一下。首先，在案發前，其實被害人是已經取得保護令的一個狀態，案發前一天，這個加害人已經違反保護令去住處大吵大鬧，而且毀損了一些物品，再接下來就是關鍵的錯失點第二點跟錯失點第三點，在這兩個公權力介入的時間點上面，檢察官認為這是情節輕微，但是證明……其實就像剛剛說的，他已經跑到受害人家中大吵大鬧了，而且是在已經有保護令的狀態之下，這其實已經是第一個警訊了，可是隔天，家事法庭法官也沒有進一步裁定加害人去接受輔導處遇計畫。我認為不論是檢察官或者是法官，都沒有採取實質的、具體的作為，也未能認知到加害人情緒不穩定，恐怕會釀成大禍的可能性。","我想請教被提名人，在您豐富的檢察官生涯裡面，一定偵辦過許多案件，面對這樣一個不幸的案件，我們可以怎樣去確保被害人的生命安全？專家和學者其實也有一些提醒，就是保護令核發的前、後會是關係人情緒最激動的時候，希望大家可以多注意，但是我們不可能只叫民眾自己多注意嘛，對不對？我們應該還是要有一些實質的作法。所以我想要跟被提名人討論，我們有沒有可能參考一些英國的案例，例如像2021年英國的家庭暴力法案，大幅加強了對家暴受害者的法律保護。","首先就是對於施暴者的限制措施，法院可以量身訂做一些限制機制，例如可以要求施暴者接受行為矯正課程，或是酒癮、藥物治療等等的。而且更不一樣的地方是，他們的法院被賦予明確的權力可以命令電子監控，甚至可以施令施暴者佩戴電子標記，可能是腳鐐之類的，來監測他是否有遵守保護令；同時，施暴者也有通報的義務，要向警方提供現在的住址等資訊的更新，讓政府可以去追蹤。如果需要的話，法院還可以規範禁止施暴者在特定距離裡出現，禁止透過電話或網路聯繫受害人。這個作法在2023年試辦之後，中部地區針對500名高風險的家暴前科者，在出獄後強制佩戴GPS電子腳鐐，成效其實蠻不錯的，大概有2,700個受害人免於遭受服刑中的施暴者騷擾。所以我想請教，像英國這麼重視人權的國家，對於加害人的保障，其實也都開始啟用像這樣的電子標誌的方式，來確保我們的被害人不會再受害。我也想請教，您認為經過這個事件，我們是否也應該要思考納入這種電子標誌的可行性呢？不能夠讓我們的家暴保護令只是一張行政命令，而是可以實際保護我們被害人的保護傘，可不可以請您發表您的一些想法？"],["林麗瑩被提名人：謝謝委員的提問，對於這個案件也表達遺憾，不過我就不對個案評論。但是委員有提供很多國外的案例供我們參考，尤其他們的制度，像電子監控這樣的制度。其實目前電子監控設備在我國也有引進，最初剛開始是作為性侵害犯假釋期間保護管束的附帶措施，這幾年也慢慢引進作為交保被告的防逃機制之一，看起來成效不能說完美，但是事實上可以有效的提升，比如說防止他去繼續做危害行為的這個目的……"],["張委員雅琳：這個也可以監測他到底在哪裡。"],["林麗瑩被提名人：對、對，這個效果是不錯的，所以目前如果可以試辦到，比如說在保護令可以附加這種電子監控，其實應該效果會更好。因為就我所知，保護令常常是要求不得離……比如被害人住家幾公尺之內不能靠近，辦公室幾公尺之內不能靠近，如果只有一張紙，其實這樣的命令很難執行，縱使我們現在有一些警力或是社工在扶助，但是人力畢竟是有限的……"],["張委員雅琳：還是很難避免。對。"],["林麗瑩被提名人：而且時間那麼長。我想電子監控確實是一個非常不錯的方式，也謝謝委員的提示，當然如果大院可以通過相關立法的話，我想可能就可以立刻讓這個制度實現，讓家暴的被害人可以有更多保障。"],["張委員雅琳：聽起來您的立場是蠻支持往這個方向來給我們被害人或是家暴的受害者可以有更多的保障，對不對？"],["林麗瑩被提名人：是。"],["張委員雅琳：接下來我也想要請教，一樣是在兒少保護這個領域，也一樣是一個爭議的案件，就是之前黃子佼涉及創意私房的案件。他去年被查出持有兒少性剝削影像，但是初期檢察官只有對他做出緩起訴處分，結果導致社會強烈的反彈，民間高度的關注跟不滿，最後是發回續行偵查，最終在5月的時候將他正式起訴。這個事件其實是反映了我們目前的制度上面在面對兒少性影像、性剝削這些案件的時候，對於這個持有行為的嚴重性跟社會期待之間其實存在著落差，也凸顯出檢察體系第一時間對此類的兒少保護意識和法律適用還是有檢討跟精進的空間。","當時黃子佼會被緩起訴，記得那時候我有看到處分書裡面是寫說，因為他認為黃子佼態度良好，且持有的少年性影像只有供他自己看，並沒有散布或販售，因此只給他緩起訴2年。雖然根據刑事訴訟法第二百五十三條之一的規定，檢察官得參酌刑法第五十七條所列情狀及公共利益，斟酌是否對被告為緩起訴處分，但是我認為這件事情、這個持有的行為其實是牽涉到兒少保護的核心價值，因為他的影像可能會擴散、外流，會帶來很大的實質影響，這已經不是單純個案可以衡量的範疇，也牴觸了整個社會對於兒少保護的要求跟公共利益的基本底線。所以若使用緩起訴就會顯示出我們對於兒少保護觀念並沒有……這個觀念其實並沒有在檢察官所認定的公共利益，也會削弱司法對於兒少性剝削犯罪的防制意識，也可能造成對於社會的錯誤示範效應，所以這件事情其實滿值得檢討我們現行的緩起訴制度，對特定的犯罪類型是否應設限或增設明確的排除條款，來符合公共利益與兒少最佳利益的要求。","目前司法官其實是有一些相關的課程讓檢察官學習兒少訊問的技巧，來減少對被害兒少的二次傷害，但是在整體的兒少保護制度，我們其實是很少去針對兒少保護和起訴之間來進行討論，這也就會造成所謂的認知落差，也難以落實真正的兒少最佳利益。所以我想請教的是，您長期擔任檢察官，您認為檢察官在面對涉及兒少的刑事案件時，我們應該如何妥適的運用起訴、緩起訴或不起訴等處分權限，才能夠真正的落實兒少保護？"],["林麗瑩被提名人：關於兒少保護，之前我擔任主任檢察官的期間，大概有3年是在婦幼組，如果我回想我們當時會運用到譬如說起訴，那大概就是性侵害案件，或者是比較嚴重的一些妨害性自主的案件，甚至是集團性的犯罪；會緩起訴的其實不多，通常是所謂的兩小無猜的案件，因為兩小無猜，現在只要一方未滿一定的歲數就會構成一定的刑責，所以當時也許雙方是有感情的，只是父母反對，這時候我們會透過一些庭外的機制，雙方如果都可以和解，父母也可以接受的話，就會進行緩起訴。","至於不起訴，當然如果是證據不足的，即使他是重罪，我們證據不足，也只能不起訴處分，像剛才委員您提到的，其實第一審檢察官所作的緩起訴，不進入法院的，緩起訴或不起訴其實還是有監督機制的，他還是可以去救濟，像剛才委員您提到的那個案件，其實我們高檢署就是有撤銷發回，要他再行偵查，這也是我們司法機關自己內部的一個過濾審查機制。"],["張委員雅琳：我想這件事情最主要想要表達的就是，我們可能對於兒少……因為一開始檢察官在作緩起訴的時候，他其實是沒有理解到這件事情對兒少的影響，我想這也是我們希望整個體系、司法體系裡面，都可以更理解兒少的這個概念。","再來，其實還是一樣，繼續是兒少相關的議題，我們現在因為大法官的人事未定，所以我們憲法法庭的審理程序陷入停擺，有很多的重要案件遲遲無法受理，其實有一件事情非常非常受到社會許多關注，那就是兒少性侵案件追訴時效的問題，這個問題我就合併待會我也會去講轉型正義追訴時效的問題。根據法務部的統計，自民國93年到113年底，已經有1,040件性侵案件因為時效屆滿，遭檢察官不起訴，這代表有1,040個勇敢提出指控的被害人連法院大門都無法跨進一步，這不只是法律制度的缺失，對他們其實也是第二次的傷害。追訴時效制度原意其實是要保障證據穩定與訴訟效率，但是在兒少性侵案件中，卻往往與被害人創傷、沉默、長期壓抑的實際狀況產生衝突，其實我們不能夠忽視這樣子制度性的排除跟壓迫，所以也許將來極有可能需要透過憲法層次的審查，檢視我們現行的追訴時效是否違反憲法所保障的訴訟權與人性尊嚴，我認為是當前憲法法庭不容忽視的一個重要課題。","這幾年很多民間團體像人本、勵馨，其實他們都揭發了相關的案件，像是去年4月報導者有報導2023年有一位匿名叫S的，他在事發超過20年才向他的母校國小提出投訴，可是最後還是因為超過了追訴期而無法起訴。根據刑法第八十條，針對性侵相關案件，最長其實是可以達到30年，但是這項延長是自2006年7月1日修正施行之後才開始適用，將原先的20年拉成30年，但是如果是發生在這之前的，即便他提告，都會被已逾追訴時效為由而駁回。澳洲的皇家委員會調查，性侵被害人其實平均要超過23.6年才有辦法訴說自己的創傷經歷，男性又更長。所以刑法追訴時效制度的設計，是否在特定情況下已經構成對憲法保障的訴訟權跟人性尊嚴的侵害，我認為這是一個非常關鍵的地方，我也認為我們必須要重新檢討目前追訴時效的設計。","所以我想請問，對於兒少性侵案，您認為是否可以延長或者是取消追訴權時效，才能夠讓我們的被害人真正有足夠時間去告發，讓加害者得到應有的懲罰呢？"],["林麗瑩被提名人：謝謝委員的提問。關於這個問題，也是我們很重視的問題，我個人也非常重視，我留學德國一陣子，也知道德國對於性侵害相關的追訴權時效，它對於受害人追訴權時效的起算點，如果他是是幼年被性侵的話，時效起算是從他成年之後才開始起算；除了德國之外，各國針對性侵害犯的追訴權時效都有做特別設計，讓它可以拉長……"],["張委員雅琳：延長或取消。"],["林麗瑩被提名人：對，甚至是取消，沒錯，有一些國際公約也認為應該要作取消追訴時效的任務。我覺得第一個階段我們可以做的還是在大院的手裡，只要大院願意支持這樣的法案通過的話，應該速度會更快。"],["張委員雅琳：但是大法官還是滿重要的，因為要來解釋這件事情，所以我還是會有這樣子的期待。不過聽起來，你應該是支持往這個方向去努力的，對不對？","接下來也是一樣，其實我有特別關注到您在諸慶恩冤案的堅持跟努力，即便當事人已經過世了，可是你沒有放棄追求司法的正義，持續推動非常上訴與再審，讓這個當事人在去世22年之後獲判無罪。我認為這是為無辜者洗刷冤屈，而且也創下我國檢察官成功為已故被告人平反的司法先例，我也非常感謝您對於法治與人權保障的努力。接下來就想要請教，可是我們還有許多的受害者到現在還是沒有得到真正的平反，最主要就是在政治檔案條例通過之後，很多人才知道他的家人死亡的真相是什麼，這些都是在2019年之後才發生的，在這之前其實是沒有辦法得到這些資訊的。","可是現在一樣，殺人罪的追訴時效為30年，可是解嚴到現在都已經超過38年了，依據法律不溯及既往，這些人其實在現在的法律架構之下，他無法獲得補償，可是就如同您剛剛有提到，德國其實更能夠去看到這些困境，在這個制度上面去做一些調整，不管是德國也好，其實德國在1979年就已經完全刪除謀殺罪追訴權時效；亞洲的韓國也在1995年制定518民主化運動特別法以及迫害憲政秩序犯罪之公訴時效特別法，都有明文講說要排除公訴時效，也就是破壞憲政秩序罪與集體殺人罪可以無限期追訴。所以我想請教您，針對於這樣一個歷史性、結構性的國家性暴力，您認為是否該直接打破刑法的追訴期限制，將期限繼續往後延或可以無限期的追訴呢？"],["林麗瑩被提名人：謝謝委員。首先我要先澄清，諸慶恩一案不是我一個人的……只是其中一個小螺絲釘，其實這是我們司法體系內部自省，很多人共同努力來促成平反的，包括檢察界跟法院，我們都共同為這件事情做一個平反，是很多人的努力，特別要提出說明，也感謝很多一起合作的夥伴，讓這件事情終於可以完成，還被害人的清白。這件案子真的也是拖了很久，所以今天委員提到關於這種結構性、歷史性的迫害，我也覺得應該要有一個制度，它是類似轉型正義的一環，應該去做這些努力，我覺得這還是可以多方去討論，就是該如何突破追訴權的限制，然後去追訴。我比較擔心的是……如果是平反，像現在已經有很多歷史在重新的詮釋，新的故事讓我們了解，但是如果是訴訟法上面，確實我們可能要從多方面去努力。"],["張委員雅琳：我想這個部分，因為它也是跟剛剛那個題目是有點接近的，就是性侵害的追訴時間，我其實是滿期待未來如果您擔任大法官的時候，其實是可以針對這個題目做一些說明。","因為時間有限，我簡單問最後一個問題，如果您擔任大法官，我們遇到這樣子的釋憲聲請，您認為我們應該如何平衡正當法律程序與實質正義呢？因為正當法律程序跟實質正義之間，其實追求的是一種動態的平衡，正當法律程序保障的是國家權力行使的正當性，可是如果一昧拘泥形式，就會忽略個案中明顯的不正義，就會造成法制變成是一個壓迫的工具，我想這是需要大家一起來努力的，所以我想問一下，您會如何平衡呢？"],["林麗瑩被提名人：其實剛剛委員提到的這些都是可能……當然我不能去做假設性的問題，以我現在的身分也不適合去具體深入評論，但是我想提出來，各方面需要權衡的，包括個人的基本權利、第三人的權益，還有社會的公共利益，都是在憲法審查的時候必須要做衡量的。"],["張委員雅琳：了解，我想因為轉型正義的路還很長，未來我們就一起來努力，謝謝。"],["林麗瑩被提名人：謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝張雅琳委員的詢問，也謝謝被提名人林檢察官的說明。請喝口水，謝謝。","接下來我們請蘇清泉委員詢問。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":466,"meet_id":"全院委員會-11-3-4","speakers":["韓國瑜","吳宗憲","麥玉珍","賴瑞隆","翁曉玲","賴惠員","陳菁徽","何欣純","黃珊珊","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","陳素月","林倩綺","鍾佳濱","徐欣瑩","張雅琳","蘇清泉","林憶君","林楚茵","陳永康","王美惠"],"page_start":365,"meetingDate":["2025-07-10"],"gazette_id":"1146501","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1146501_00006","1146501_00007","1146501_00008"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期第4次全院委員會會議紀錄","content":"總統咨，為司法院大法官含院長、副院長，現有缺額7名，茲依據中華民國憲法增修條文第5條規\n定，提名蔡秋明、蘇素娥、蕭文生、鄭純惠、林麗瑩、陳慈陽、詹鎮榮7位為司法院大法官，並\n以蔡秋明為院長、蘇素娥為副院長，咨請同意案","agenda_id":"1146501_00004"}}}