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\"員\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:18,257 --> 00:00:26,208\n謝謝主席請陳大法官提名人請被提名人陳慈揚教授答詢\n\n2\n00:00:34,134 --> 00:00:58,884\n陳提名人我想因為本席啊針對不管你在當考試委員或者當寫者專家的時候當然我特別要提醒也就是上一次的大法官的提名七個通通不通過不通過的原因是因為力猶有\n\n3\n00:01:00,888 --> 00:01:12,123\n其中有一位劉靜儀教授他是國民黨的媽民進黨的媽民眾黨的柯文哲他也媽但是本港\n\n4\n00:01:13,373 --> 00:01:41,219\n特別投贊成票也就是給劉靜儀教授這個才是要真正可以當大法官沒有送上面的壓力自己有自己的主張那我就感覺到很奇怪喔民進黨自己封殺劉靜儀教授這代表什麼就代表就是賴總統提名的大法官不一定\n\n5\n00:01:42,014 --> 00:01:57,059\n就只有聽賴清德的那就一定會通過這個我特別要提醒可是上一次是力猶猶那這一次啊又加上兩個這樣的所有七個提名人當然\n\n6\n00:01:58,560 --> 00:02:26,388\n陳教授陳提名人是不是這樣我不曉得可是其他的部分我要給他形容這是傳統食物來陳提名人這是什麼乖乖乖乖齁是上次力猶有這次又加上什麼聽話的乖乖牌所以我拿這些乖乖啊就是台灣人的口味但是我坦白講\n\n7\n00:02:28,352 --> 00:02:55,264\n說實在的當一個大法官不是只有力有有也不能只有乖乖牌如果是這樣大法官的職責本來他就是維護憲華解釋憲華非常重要的職責所以這一點我特別要跟我們提名人特別提醒未來如果你當大法官以後\n\n8\n00:02:56,224 --> 00:03:20,915\n你有顏色另外一回事但是千萬不能做乖乖派這一點我要提醒你好那個陳提名的來我現在啊我剛剛講力有有當然我這個你事實上你自己也知道在民進黨執政這九年當中你不管是考試委員或者你在授課的當中\n\n9\n00:03:21,963 --> 00:03:37,203\n我在想民進黨任何一個跟法例有關的跟憲法有關的當然吉利增調會你是申請人欸那有很多法例案\n\n10\n00:03:38,171 --> 00:04:00,062\n那這些等等我們就不再浪費時間我要請問你過去是寫者專家現在你準備大法官被提名人你在這個部分跟民進黨的這些關係未來你如果通過以後你會有什麼起色請問\n\n11\n00:04:02,896 --> 00:04:21,717\n報告委員,從我106年開始擔任考試委員,整個就可以證明我在考試院任內所有的兼職,當然不是政黨的兼職,我從來沒有兼職過政黨,所有的各院的這個術院審議委員等等全部辭掉,\n\n12\n00:04:22,398 --> 00:04:37,544\n也不參加除跟考試院職權有關的相關的演講或報告這裡第一個我就可以證明我本身就是基於超然的地位在行使考試委員職權這以前可以驗證\n\n13\n00:04:38,844 --> 00:05:05,462\n那你在當大法官的時候也是會秉存你這種精神但是你在寫者專家對你不放心的就是確確實實你比力猶有更力猶有好那沒關係這個是我們的感覺但是你的做法就是未來表現給人家看嘛當然也不能說過去如何做跟現在如何做未來如何做我們就是\n\n14\n00:05:06,323 --> 00:05:33,126\n把他蓋關這個論斷那這個當然對你也是不公平但是我特別再來請教你一個問題除了你當然跟民進黨力有有的那種顏色是非常密切但是我要請教你現在家人還有沒有在當有幾職或無幾職的民進黨的重要職務有沒有\n\n15\n00:05:33,866 --> 00:05:58,925\n報告委員我的太太郭立貞教授現在擔任民進黨的仲裁委員但是跟委員報告夫妻除了共贏婚姻生活家庭關係以及親子關係以外個人的職業的發展跟個人的一個自己決定的這相關的這個OKOK好我現在疑問的是這樣陳提名人\n\n16\n00:05:59,545 --> 00:06:08,001\n我在疑問的為什麼我要問這個當然夫人她如何去做她想法怎麼去做跟你的職位當然不\n\n17\n00:06:09,107 --> 00:06:30,633\n不等於啦但是有一點因為本黨台灣民眾黨在問鑒的時候你提到這個部分你如果現在在宴會裡面直接講答我夫人是怎麼樣怎麼樣怎麼樣這個問題我就不會問喔你答的是依憲法之規定\n\n18\n00:06:33,854 --> 00:06:57,979\n9條10條11條辦理這個就有一點迴避的意思那個是指我個人有利益衝突的時候那個問題是問個人有利益衝突的時候所以我才依據憲法訴訟法並沒有問到說你家人或者是你的幾等親之內並沒有問所以我的回答是非常誠實的所以我坦白講啦\n\n19\n00:06:58,559 --> 00:07:21,764\n所以這樣就會讓我們猜疑你是在做迴避那有做就有做有什麼關係因為民進黨本來就是正當的政黨啊報告委員因為那個問題點只問我本人所以我的回答是針對本人如果有問家人我一定會回答除了太太以外其他還有沒有沒有沒有了齁我希望這樣剛才為什麼我會講\n\n20\n00:07:24,705 --> 00:07:53,937\n除了力猶有當然我們要尊重參加任何政黨那其他的職務無所謂但是當了大法官以後他是憲法為重所以不能有政黨色彩太明顯這是我們很在乎的也認為說過去你怎麼做讓我們感覺你是力猶有再加上力猶有報告我人我在考試委員任內絕對沒有這樣子的情形\n\n21\n00:07:55,718 --> 00:08:19,535\n另外一個就是會死的問題會死的問題你也曾經講過也就是說執行死刑對於生命的侵犯行為請問現在以死刑一字節實質會死的這些你現在未來有什麼看法\n\n22\n00:08:20,453 --> 00:08:49,219\n報告委員我在回答貴黨團的意見裡面提到除了要堅守憲法的價值核心大法官還要堅固基於國民主權國民的情感及價值共識所以我在這邊可以理解也認同死刑的存在而且有感同身受報告委員還有一段是來來來陳提名人來你發表這個意思就是你反對\n\n23\n00:08:50,609 --> 00:09:00,923\n你反對的意思不是也就是說執行死刑是侵犯的立場所以這些有時候你現在講說你尊重\n\n24\n00:09:02,630 --> 00:09:27,510\n這個死刑的存在那當然這個我們尊重你可是我把問題凸顯出來是讓你未來在這個部分你當了大法官以後在這個部分要特別去留意因為你在寫者在平常所表示的這些就讓我們感覺是你根本就是賄使的使用者吧從\n\n25\n00:09:29,271 --> 00:09:44,600\n我相信那句話是從理論推論的應該是從基本權核心理論推論出的你還是尊重有死刑的存在我還是尊重因為是至於國民主權我跟委員報告我留得的我的背景\n\n26\n00:09:45,305 --> 00:10:11,904\n德國的法院的判決除了前面第一個是他的國規以外另外他會寫到以德意志人民之名來做成判決所以一定要尊重國民法官法也是如此我知道我知道我知道你我拜讀過你很多你很多這個大作啦所以你很多資料我都有蒐集啦那因為我是認為講這句話會產生讓人家你\n\n27\n00:10:16,809 --> 00:10:29,629\n不存在死刑的存在所以這一點要特別那你已經公開在大宴裡面已經講了你是死刑的存在你是尊重的所以這個部分要\n\n28\n00:10:30,350 --> 00:10:47,501\n未來大法官是在解釋憲法是在解釋違憲與否所以這個部分是特別提醒你接下來可能比較敏感也就是本黨跟我們立法院已經三讀通過的法庭直播的問題\n\n29\n00:10:48,622 --> 00:11:16,883\n那法庭直播已經三讀通過算一個法律案嘛因為這個法院組織法裡面其實這個也沒有牽涉到任何人那這些人我就感覺到很奇怪啊民進黨就一直在講事實神根本不能直播嘛就是法律神才有可能直播更何況兩個重點一個重點就是社會矚目重大的案子一個就是\n\n30\n00:11:18,204 --> 00:11:43,790\n那大家所關心重要的兩個議題才有可能直播這直播是被告可以申請法官做最後的裁定那我不曉得法庭直播不是什麼洪水猛獸那為什麼他們在反對這個就是什麼自己心裡面有鬼所以一直在阻擋來陳提名人未來你是大法官針對這個問題你有什麼看法\n\n31\n00:11:46,639 --> 00:12:11,792\n報告委員我在貴黨團提的書面意見已經提到法庭直播基本上立法院已經通過尊重立法院的決定裡面有關法律審以開放直播為原則事實審視例外而且要最後由法官依職權來認定當然當事人可以申請這些我都予以尊重\n\n32\n00:12:12,312 --> 00:12:37,937\n不過有一件事我必須因為司法院已經也提到了裡面有非常多會涉及到隱私權涉及到相關的權利事實層才會有隱私權兩個要做來我只是提法律的要件希望司法院司法院已經承諾說要司法行政所長要你如果要談這些我就認為你沒有誠心面對\n\n33\n00:12:38,917 --> 00:13:05,100\n今天我剛才已經講這是事實審當然不在此現了那法律審當然是社會矚目的重大議案你還在講什麼個人的隱私那是最後才法官來裁定嘛所以這些東西我不曉得他們在怕什麼道泰委員我是說配套措施而已啦我並不是我是說配套措施不是說我有很多議題來陳提名人來我有很多議題\n\n34\n00:13:06,461 --> 00:13:21,811\n現在就是現在的政府尤其教育部啊用一個什麼健康有序不涉及正式矮化等等的東西用這種變通限制做協助交流但是\n\n35\n00:13:23,171 --> 00:13:44,829\n我們大家都知道陳提名人你也曾經去過大陸喔也做過協助交流那我們本院也有民進黨委員講講說交流就是統戰請問這是人民的行的權利請問你贊不贊同交流就是統戰你贊不贊同\n\n36\n00:13:46,929 --> 00:14:09,855\n人民有行動遷徙等等的自由這憲法明文保障但是依據憲法23條如果社交公共利益等等這些是可以以法律限制但是不能剝奪我講的是交流兩制跟統戰無關但是我們院裡面民進黨有委員講交流\n\n37\n00:14:10,695 --> 00:14:17,202\n什麼叫做交流交流就是大家互相的知識的交換交流的情感\n\n38\n00:14:18,210 --> 00:14:40,289\n並非有統獨的這些交流當然統獨不可以啊法律規定得很清楚啊所以我現在請教你的就是交流就是統戰你讚不讚同因為未來你是要做大法官喔大法官是要做憲法人民權利的解釋喔\n\n39\n00:14:41,030 --> 00:15:05,202\n所以你同不同意這句話報告委員這是大院各委員彼此之間的在職權行使的發表當然我們言論自由我們都尊重他來陳提名人我跟你講我們任何一個立法委員他有免責權這個OK我們都尊重他言論自由但是我要請教你因為未來你是要做大法官\n\n40\n00:15:06,002 --> 00:15:34,715\n交流就是統戰你同不同意我認為我要你回答你同不同意交流就是統戰原則上交流並不是統戰但是有很多狀況之下要經大院來做相關的立法或配套這是尊重大院的職權陳教授陳提名人你如果繼續這樣講我就開始要用這種不理性的來問你\n\n41\n00:15:35,535 --> 00:15:59,928\n因為你不同意就是不同意嘛這本來交流就不是統戰嘛那明明就是要把它交流就把它變成統戰這叫做什麼這叫做政治化的思想啊什麼這樣就統戰那如果是這樣你幾年下來2013年2014年2017年你都有學術啊你有去見過統戰部的人嗎沒有嘛\n\n42\n00:16:03,650 --> 00:16:23,124\n那為什麼要把你醜化你也是一個統戰啊所以陳提名的人未來你是要當法官我要的就是這一句話你到底同不同意你已經講說不同意但是尊重他的言論自由我一樣跟你的心態一樣我也反對這句話就是統戰但是最起碼的話\n\n43\n00:16:24,741 --> 00:16:49,691\n也就是其他的部分他們要事件你就有一個基本的立場好另外我們大家知道陳提名人你也是反對反核的反核的但是我們本黨8月23號準備核三的啟用但是我必須要提醒我們陳提名人也就是\n\n44\n00:16:51,303 --> 00:17:20,309\n世界各國都在用核能過去是緩和現在變成核能是安全但是你的大作幾個當中甚至於你是合適的這些審查委員你都指張要會合請問一下你當了大法官以後你會把這個緩和的觀念帶進大法官法庭裡面去做這些不利於核能的這些種種\n\n45\n00:17:21,269 --> 00:17:45,197\n但是我特別要提醒七大工業國先進國家都已經把核能當成一個環保的花店的東西請問你針對這個議題陳提名人你有什麼看法報告委員這是我將近30年前核能科技的狀態所提出的看法\n\n46\n00:17:49,278 --> 00:18:07,663\n三十年後因為我八年擔任考試委員全力專注在考試院的職權對環境法這一塊基本上沒有再去接觸它了我同意你的說法因為三十年前當然時代轉變有時候看法會改變\n\n47\n00:18:08,703 --> 00:18:29,317\n但是我特別要提醒你核能世界趨勢是過去緩和是有理現在緩和是要理性的緩和當然這些包括日本鄰近國家我們可以看大家都在用嘛所以我希望你當了大法官以後\n\n48\n00:18:30,217 --> 00:18:51,845\n千萬千萬不能把三十年緩和的這個堅定想法用在憲法的解釋這樣我特別要提醒我們陳提名人最後一個來最後一個我們大家都知道啊現在的大法官啊陳忠貞大法官啊你過去在當考試委員的時候\n\n49\n00:18:53,843 --> 00:19:11,424\n確實他在當考選部部長你們對以律師考試等等你確確實實你們兩位有所堅持跟有所質疑請問一下你現在大法官通過以後就變成又是同事\n\n50\n00:19:12,605 --> 00:19:28,521\n會不會前車之鑒又發生你跟他觀念不同有爭執僵持不下的情形請問我們陳提名人針對這個你有什麼解說自古文人相親\n\n51\n00:19:29,622 --> 00:19:51,564\n彼此之間的學術見解都不一樣所以在學界發生爭執的狀況都是常識但是私底下大家都是法界的同事朋友絕對不會因為這樣影響到私底下法界的朋友跟同事之情誼但是有關公事部分我們當然就堅持自己的見解\n\n52\n00:19:52,825 --> 00:20:22,305\n那個陳提名人我想今天我都很直接的問你一些過去不管你30年前的堅持或者考試委員的等等或者你過去跟民進黨種種的關係這個都無所謂隨時我也同意時代轉變不一樣但是當大法官當任何一個職責有任何一個職責的這些轉變跟堅持最後一個我必須要提醒我們陳提名人心中有憲法\n\n53\n00:20:23,926 --> 00:20:42,981\n腦中有人名不要有綠色的想法要有自己邪術涵養的主張所以我真的蠻期待我們陳提名人謝謝林委員\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n18257\t26208\t謝謝主席請陳大法官提名人請被提名人陳慈揚教授答詢\n34134\t58884\t陳提名人我想因為本席啊針對不管你在當考試委員或者當寫者專家的時候當然我特別要提醒也就是上一次的大法官的提名七個通通不通過不通過的原因是因為力猶有\n60888\t72123\t其中有一位劉靜儀教授他是國民黨的媽民進黨的媽民眾黨的柯文哲他也媽但是本港\n73373\t101219\t特別投贊成票也就是給劉靜儀教授這個才是要真正可以當大法官沒有送上面的壓力自己有自己的主張那我就感覺到很奇怪喔民進黨自己封殺劉靜儀教授這代表什麼就代表就是賴總統提名的大法官不一定\n102014\t117059\t就只有聽賴清德的那就一定會通過這個我特別要提醒可是上一次是力猶猶那這一次啊又加上兩個這樣的所有七個提名人當然\n118560\t146388\t陳教授 陳提名人是不是這樣 我不曉得可是其他的部分 我要給他形容這是傳統食物來 陳提名人 這是什麼乖乖乖乖齁是上次力猶有這次又加上什麼聽話的乖乖牌所以 我拿這些乖乖啊就是台灣人的口味但是 我坦白講\n148352\t175264\t說實在的當一個大法官不是只有力有有也不能只有乖乖牌如果是這樣大法官的職責本來他就是維護憲華解釋憲華非常重要的職責所以這一點我特別要跟我們提名人特別提醒未來如果你當大法官以後\n176224\t200915\t你有顏色 另外一回事但是千萬不能做乖乖派這一點我要提醒你好 那個陳提名的來我現在啊我剛剛講力有有當然我這個你事實上你自己也知道在民進黨執政這九年當中你不管是考試委員或者你在授課的當中\n201963\t217203\t我在想 民進黨任何一個跟法例有關的跟憲法有關的當然 吉利 增調會你是申請人欸那有很多法例案\n218171\t240062\t那這些等等我們就不再浪費時間我要請問你過去是寫者專家現在你準備大法官被提名人你在這個部分跟民進黨的這些關係未來你如果通過以後你會有什麼起色請問\n242896\t261717\t報告委員,從我106年開始擔任考試委員,整個就可以證明我在考試院任內所有的兼職,當然不是政黨的兼職,我從來沒有兼職過政黨,所有的各院的這個術院審議委員等等全部辭掉,\n262398\t277544\t也不參加除跟考試院職權有關的相關的演講或報告這裡第一個我就可以證明我本身就是基於超然的地位在行使考試委員職權這以前可以驗證\n278844\t305462\t那你在當大法官的時候也是會秉存你這種精神但是你在寫者專家對你不放心的就是確確實實你比力猶有更力猶有好那沒關係這個是我們的感覺但是你的做法就是未來表現給人家看嘛當然也不能說過去如何做跟現在如何做未來如何做我們就是\n306323\t333126\t把他蓋關這個論斷那這個當然對你也是不公平但是我特別再來請教你一個問題除了你當然跟民進黨力有有的那種顏色是非常密切但是我要請教你現在家人還有沒有在當有幾職或無幾職的民進黨的重要職務有沒有\n333866\t358925\t報告委員我的太太郭立貞教授現在擔任民進黨的仲裁委員但是跟委員報告夫妻除了共贏婚姻生活家庭關係以及親子關係以外個人的職業的發展跟個人的一個自己決定的這相關的這個OK OK 好我現在疑問的是這樣陳提名人\n359545\t368001\t我在疑問的為什麼我要問這個當然夫人她如何去做她想法怎麼去做跟你的職位當然不\n369107\t390633\t不等於啦但是有一點因為本黨台灣民眾黨在問鑒的時候你提到這個部分你如果現在在宴會裡面直接講答我夫人是怎麼樣怎麼樣怎麼樣這個問題我就不會問喔你答的是依憲法之規定\n393854\t417979\t9條10條11條辦理這個就有一點迴避的意思那個是指我個人有利益衝突的時候那個問題是問個人有利益衝突的時候所以我才依據憲法訴訟法並沒有問到說你家人或者是你的幾等親之內並沒有問所以我的回答是非常誠實的所以我坦白講啦\n418559\t441764\t所以這樣就會讓我們猜疑你是在做迴避那有做就有做有什麼關係因為民進黨本來就是正當的政黨啊報告委員因為那個問題點只問我本人所以我的回答是針對本人如果有問家人我一定會回答除了太太以外其他還有沒有沒有沒有了齁我希望這樣剛才為什麼我會講\n444705\t473937\t除了力猶有當然我們要尊重參加任何政黨那其他的職務無所謂但是當了大法官以後他是憲法為重所以不能有政黨色彩太明顯這是我們很在乎的也認為說過去你怎麼做讓我們感覺你是力猶有再加上力猶有報告我人我在考試委員任內絕對沒有這樣子的情形\n475718\t499535\t另外一個就是會死的問題會死的問題你也曾經講過也就是說執行死刑對於生命的侵犯行為請問現在以死刑一字節實質會死的這些你現在未來有什麼看法\n500453\t529219\t報告委員我在回答貴黨團的意見裡面提到除了要堅守憲法的價值核心大法官還要堅固基於國民主權國民的情感及價值共識所以我在這邊可以理解也認同死刑的存在而且有感同身受報告委員還有一段是來來來陳提名人來你發表這個意思就是你反對\n530609\t540923\t你反對的意思不是也就是說執行死刑是侵犯的立場所以這些有時候你現在講說你尊重\n542630\t567510\t這個死刑的存在那當然這個我們尊重你可是我把問題凸顯出來是讓你未來在這個部分你當了大法官以後在這個部分要特別去留意因為你在寫者在平常所表示的這些就讓我們感覺是你根本就是賄使的使用者吧從\n569271\t584600\t我相信那句話是從理論推論的應該是從基本權核心理論推論出的你還是尊重有死刑的存在我還是尊重 因為是至於國民主權我跟委員報告我留得的 我的背景\n585305\t611904\t德國的法院的判決除了前面第一個是他的國規以外另外他會寫到以德意志人民之名來做成判決所以一定要尊重國民法官法也是如此我知道我知道我知道你我拜讀過你很多你很多這個大作啦所以你很多資料我都有蒐集啦那因為我是認為講這句話會產生讓人家你\n616809\t629629\t不存在死刑的存在所以這一點要特別那你已經公開在大宴裡面已經講了你是死刑的存在你是尊重的所以這個部分要\n630350\t647501\t未來大法官是在解釋憲法是在解釋違憲與否所以這個部分是特別提醒你接下來可能比較敏感也就是本黨跟我們立法院已經三讀通過的法庭直播的問題\n648622\t676883\t那法庭直播已經三讀通過算一個法律案嘛因為這個法院組織法裡面其實這個也沒有牽涉到任何人那這些人我就感覺到很奇怪啊民進黨就一直在講事實神根本不能直播嘛就是法律神才有可能直播更何況兩個重點一個重點就是社會矚目重大的案子一個就是\n678204\t703790\t那大家所關心重要的兩個議題才有可能直播這直播是被告可以申請法官做最後的裁定那我不曉得法庭直播不是什麼洪水猛獸那為什麼他們在反對這個就是什麼自己心裡面有鬼所以一直在阻擋來陳提名人未來你是大法官針對這個問題你有什麼看法\n706639\t731792\t報告委員我在貴黨團提的書面意見已經提到法庭直播基本上立法院已經通過尊重立法院的決定裡面有關法律審以開放直播為原則事實審視例外而且要最後由法官依職權來認定當然當事人可以申請這些我都予以尊重\n732312\t757937\t不過有一件事我必須因為司法院已經也提到了裡面有非常多會涉及到隱私權涉及到相關的權利事實層才會有隱私權兩個要做來我只是提法律的要件希望司法院司法院已經承諾說要司法行政所長要你如果要談這些我就認為你沒有誠心面對\n758917\t785100\t今天我剛才已經講這是事實審當然不在此現了那法律審當然是社會矚目的重大議案你還在講什麼個人的隱私那是最後才法官來裁定嘛所以這些東西我不曉得他們在怕什麼道泰委員我是說配套措施而已啦我並不是我是說配套措施不是說我有很多議題來陳提名人來我有很多議題\n786461\t801811\t現在就是現在的政府尤其教育部啊用一個什麼健康有序不涉及正式矮化等等的東西用這種變通限制做協助交流但是\n803171\t824829\t我們大家都知道陳提名人你也曾經去過大陸喔也做過協助交流那我們本院也有民進黨委員講講說交流就是統戰請問這是人民的行的權利請問你贊不贊同交流就是統戰你贊不贊同\n826929\t849855\t人民有行動遷徙等等的自由這憲法明文保障但是依據憲法23條如果社交公共利益等等這些是可以以法律限制但是不能剝奪我講的是交流兩制跟統戰無關但是我們院裡面民進黨有委員講交流\n850695\t857202\t什麼叫做交流 交流就是大家互相的知識的交換 交流的情感\n858210\t880289\t並非有統獨的這些交流當然統獨不可以啊 法律規定得很清楚啊所以我現在請教你的就是交流就是統戰 你讚不讚同因為未來你是要做大法官喔大法官是要做憲法人民權利的解釋喔\n881030\t905202\t所以你同不同意這句話報告委員這是大院各委員彼此之間的在職權行使的發表當然我們言論自由我們都尊重他來陳提名人我跟你講我們任何一個立法委員他有免責權這個OK我們都尊重他言論自由但是我要請教你因為未來你是要做大法官\n906002\t934715\t交流就是統戰你同不同意我認為我要你回答你同不同意交流就是統戰原則上交流並不是統戰但是有很多狀況之下要經大院來做相關的立法或配套這是尊重大院的職權陳教授 陳提名人你如果繼續這樣講我就開始要用這種不理性的來問你\n935535\t959928\t因為你不同意就是不同意嘛這本來交流就不是統戰嘛那明明就是要把它交流就把它變成統戰這叫做什麼這叫做政治化的思想啊什麼這樣就統戰那如果是這樣你幾年下來2013年2014年2017年你都有學術啊你有去見過統戰部的人嗎沒有嘛\n963650\t983124\t那為什麼要把你醜化 你也是一個統戰啊所以陳提名的人 未來你是要當法官我要的就是這一句話你到底同不同意 你已經講說不同意但是尊重他的言論自由我一樣 跟你的心態一樣我也反對這句話就是統戰但是最起碼的話\n984741\t1009691\t也就是其他的部分他們要事件你就有一個基本的立場好 另外我們大家知道陳提名人你也是反對反核的反核的但是我們本黨8月23號準備核三的啟用但是我必須要提醒我們陳提名人也就是\n1011303\t1040309\t世界各國都在用核能過去是緩和現在變成核能是安全但是你的大作幾個當中甚至於你是合適的這些審查委員你都指張要會合請問一下你當了大法官以後你會把這個緩和的觀念帶進大法官法庭裡面去做這些不利於核能的這些種種\n1041269\t1065197\t但是我特別要提醒七大工業國先進國家都已經把核能當成一個環保的花店的東西請問你針對這個議題陳提名人你有什麼看法報告委員這是我將近30年前核能科技的狀態所提出的看法\n1069278\t1087663\t三十年後因為我八年擔任考試委員全力專注在考試院的職權對環境法這一塊基本上沒有再去接觸它了我同意你的說法因為三十年前當然時代轉變有時候看法會改變\n1088703\t1109317\t但是我特別要提醒你核能世界趨勢是過去緩和是有理現在緩和是要理性的緩和當然這些包括日本鄰近國家我們可以看大家都在用嘛所以我希望你當了大法官以後\n1110217\t1131845\t千萬千萬不能把三十年緩和的這個堅定想法用在憲法的解釋這樣我特別要提醒我們陳提名人最後一個來最後一個我們大家都知道啊現在的大法官啊陳忠貞大法官啊你過去在當考試委員的時候\n1133843\t1151424\t確實他在當考選部部長你們對以律師考試等等你確確實實你們兩位有所堅持跟有所質疑請問一下你現在大法官通過以後就變成又是同事\n1152605\t1168521\t會不會前車之鑒又發生你跟他觀念不同有爭執僵持不下的情形請問我們陳提名人針對這個你有什麼解說自古文人相親\n1169622\t1191564\t彼此之間的學術見解都不一樣所以在學界發生爭執的狀況都是常識但是私底下大家都是法界的同事朋友絕對不會因為這樣影響到私底下法界的朋友跟同事之情誼但是有關公事部分我們當然就堅持自己的見解\n1192825\t1222305\t那個陳提名人我想今天我都很直接的問你一些過去不管你30年前的堅持或者考試委員的等等或者你過去跟民進黨種種的關係這個都無所謂隨時我也同意時代轉變不一樣但是當大法官當任何一個職責有任何一個職責的這些轉變跟堅持最後一個我必須要提醒我們陳提名人心中有憲法\n1223926\t1242981\t腦中有人名不要有綠色的想法要有自己邪術涵養的主張所以我真的蠻期待我們陳提名人謝謝林委員\n","txt":"謝謝主席請陳大法官提名人請被提名人陳慈揚教授答詢\n陳提名人我想因為本席啊針對不管你在當考試委員或者當寫者專家的時候當然我特別要提醒也就是上一次的大法官的提名七個通通不通過不通過的原因是因為力猶有\n其中有一位劉靜儀教授他是國民黨的媽民進黨的媽民眾黨的柯文哲他也媽但是本港\n特別投贊成票也就是給劉靜儀教授這個才是要真正可以當大法官沒有送上面的壓力自己有自己的主張那我就感覺到很奇怪喔民進黨自己封殺劉靜儀教授這代表什麼就代表就是賴總統提名的大法官不一定\n就只有聽賴清德的那就一定會通過這個我特別要提醒可是上一次是力猶猶那這一次啊又加上兩個這樣的所有七個提名人當然\n陳教授 陳提名人是不是這樣 我不曉得可是其他的部分 我要給他形容這是傳統食物來 陳提名人 這是什麼乖乖乖乖齁是上次力猶有這次又加上什麼聽話的乖乖牌所以 我拿這些乖乖啊就是台灣人的口味但是 我坦白講\n說實在的當一個大法官不是只有力有有也不能只有乖乖牌如果是這樣大法官的職責本來他就是維護憲華解釋憲華非常重要的職責所以這一點我特別要跟我們提名人特別提醒未來如果你當大法官以後\n你有顏色 另外一回事但是千萬不能做乖乖派這一點我要提醒你好 那個陳提名的來我現在啊我剛剛講力有有當然我這個你事實上你自己也知道在民進黨執政這九年當中你不管是考試委員或者你在授課的當中\n我在想 民進黨任何一個跟法例有關的跟憲法有關的當然 吉利 增調會你是申請人欸那有很多法例案\n那這些等等我們就不再浪費時間我要請問你過去是寫者專家現在你準備大法官被提名人你在這個部分跟民進黨的這些關係未來你如果通過以後你會有什麼起色請問\n報告委員,從我106年開始擔任考試委員,整個就可以證明我在考試院任內所有的兼職,當然不是政黨的兼職,我從來沒有兼職過政黨,所有的各院的這個術院審議委員等等全部辭掉,\n也不參加除跟考試院職權有關的相關的演講或報告這裡第一個我就可以證明我本身就是基於超然的地位在行使考試委員職權這以前可以驗證\n那你在當大法官的時候也是會秉存你這種精神但是你在寫者專家對你不放心的就是確確實實你比力猶有更力猶有好那沒關係這個是我們的感覺但是你的做法就是未來表現給人家看嘛當然也不能說過去如何做跟現在如何做未來如何做我們就是\n把他蓋關這個論斷那這個當然對你也是不公平但是我特別再來請教你一個問題除了你當然跟民進黨力有有的那種顏色是非常密切但是我要請教你現在家人還有沒有在當有幾職或無幾職的民進黨的重要職務有沒有\n報告委員我的太太郭立貞教授現在擔任民進黨的仲裁委員但是跟委員報告夫妻除了共贏婚姻生活家庭關係以及親子關係以外個人的職業的發展跟個人的一個自己決定的這相關的這個OK OK 好我現在疑問的是這樣陳提名人\n我在疑問的為什麼我要問這個當然夫人她如何去做她想法怎麼去做跟你的職位當然不\n不等於啦但是有一點因為本黨台灣民眾黨在問鑒的時候你提到這個部分你如果現在在宴會裡面直接講答我夫人是怎麼樣怎麼樣怎麼樣這個問題我就不會問喔你答的是依憲法之規定\n9條10條11條辦理這個就有一點迴避的意思那個是指我個人有利益衝突的時候那個問題是問個人有利益衝突的時候所以我才依據憲法訴訟法並沒有問到說你家人或者是你的幾等親之內並沒有問所以我的回答是非常誠實的所以我坦白講啦\n所以這樣就會讓我們猜疑你是在做迴避那有做就有做有什麼關係因為民進黨本來就是正當的政黨啊報告委員因為那個問題點只問我本人所以我的回答是針對本人如果有問家人我一定會回答除了太太以外其他還有沒有沒有沒有了齁我希望這樣剛才為什麼我會講\n除了力猶有當然我們要尊重參加任何政黨那其他的職務無所謂但是當了大法官以後他是憲法為重所以不能有政黨色彩太明顯這是我們很在乎的也認為說過去你怎麼做讓我們感覺你是力猶有再加上力猶有報告我人我在考試委員任內絕對沒有這樣子的情形\n另外一個就是會死的問題會死的問題你也曾經講過也就是說執行死刑對於生命的侵犯行為請問現在以死刑一字節實質會死的這些你現在未來有什麼看法\n報告委員我在回答貴黨團的意見裡面提到除了要堅守憲法的價值核心大法官還要堅固基於國民主權國民的情感及價值共識所以我在這邊可以理解也認同死刑的存在而且有感同身受報告委員還有一段是來來來陳提名人來你發表這個意思就是你反對\n你反對的意思不是也就是說執行死刑是侵犯的立場所以這些有時候你現在講說你尊重\n這個死刑的存在那當然這個我們尊重你可是我把問題凸顯出來是讓你未來在這個部分你當了大法官以後在這個部分要特別去留意因為你在寫者在平常所表示的這些就讓我們感覺是你根本就是賄使的使用者吧從\n我相信那句話是從理論推論的應該是從基本權核心理論推論出的你還是尊重有死刑的存在我還是尊重 因為是至於國民主權我跟委員報告我留得的 我的背景\n德國的法院的判決除了前面第一個是他的國規以外另外他會寫到以德意志人民之名來做成判決所以一定要尊重國民法官法也是如此我知道我知道我知道你我拜讀過你很多你很多這個大作啦所以你很多資料我都有蒐集啦那因為我是認為講這句話會產生讓人家你\n不存在死刑的存在所以這一點要特別那你已經公開在大宴裡面已經講了你是死刑的存在你是尊重的所以這個部分要\n未來大法官是在解釋憲法是在解釋違憲與否所以這個部分是特別提醒你接下來可能比較敏感也就是本黨跟我們立法院已經三讀通過的法庭直播的問題\n那法庭直播已經三讀通過算一個法律案嘛因為這個法院組織法裡面其實這個也沒有牽涉到任何人那這些人我就感覺到很奇怪啊民進黨就一直在講事實神根本不能直播嘛就是法律神才有可能直播更何況兩個重點一個重點就是社會矚目重大的案子一個就是\n那大家所關心重要的兩個議題才有可能直播這直播是被告可以申請法官做最後的裁定那我不曉得法庭直播不是什麼洪水猛獸那為什麼他們在反對這個就是什麼自己心裡面有鬼所以一直在阻擋來陳提名人未來你是大法官針對這個問題你有什麼看法\n報告委員我在貴黨團提的書面意見已經提到法庭直播基本上立法院已經通過尊重立法院的決定裡面有關法律審以開放直播為原則事實審視例外而且要最後由法官依職權來認定當然當事人可以申請這些我都予以尊重\n不過有一件事我必須因為司法院已經也提到了裡面有非常多會涉及到隱私權涉及到相關的權利事實層才會有隱私權兩個要做來我只是提法律的要件希望司法院司法院已經承諾說要司法行政所長要你如果要談這些我就認為你沒有誠心面對\n今天我剛才已經講這是事實審當然不在此現了那法律審當然是社會矚目的重大議案你還在講什麼個人的隱私那是最後才法官來裁定嘛所以這些東西我不曉得他們在怕什麼道泰委員我是說配套措施而已啦我並不是我是說配套措施不是說我有很多議題來陳提名人來我有很多議題\n現在就是現在的政府尤其教育部啊用一個什麼健康有序不涉及正式矮化等等的東西用這種變通限制做協助交流但是\n我們大家都知道陳提名人你也曾經去過大陸喔也做過協助交流那我們本院也有民進黨委員講講說交流就是統戰請問這是人民的行的權利請問你贊不贊同交流就是統戰你贊不贊同\n人民有行動遷徙等等的自由這憲法明文保障但是依據憲法23條如果社交公共利益等等這些是可以以法律限制但是不能剝奪我講的是交流兩制跟統戰無關但是我們院裡面民進黨有委員講交流\n什麼叫做交流 交流就是大家互相的知識的交換 交流的情感\n並非有統獨的這些交流當然統獨不可以啊 法律規定得很清楚啊所以我現在請教你的就是交流就是統戰 你讚不讚同因為未來你是要做大法官喔大法官是要做憲法人民權利的解釋喔\n所以你同不同意這句話報告委員這是大院各委員彼此之間的在職權行使的發表當然我們言論自由我們都尊重他來陳提名人我跟你講我們任何一個立法委員他有免責權這個OK我們都尊重他言論自由但是我要請教你因為未來你是要做大法官\n交流就是統戰你同不同意我認為我要你回答你同不同意交流就是統戰原則上交流並不是統戰但是有很多狀況之下要經大院來做相關的立法或配套這是尊重大院的職權陳教授 陳提名人你如果繼續這樣講我就開始要用這種不理性的來問你\n因為你不同意就是不同意嘛這本來交流就不是統戰嘛那明明就是要把它交流就把它變成統戰這叫做什麼這叫做政治化的思想啊什麼這樣就統戰那如果是這樣你幾年下來2013年2014年2017年你都有學術啊你有去見過統戰部的人嗎沒有嘛\n那為什麼要把你醜化 你也是一個統戰啊所以陳提名的人 未來你是要當法官我要的就是這一句話你到底同不同意 你已經講說不同意但是尊重他的言論自由我一樣 跟你的心態一樣我也反對這句話就是統戰但是最起碼的話\n也就是其他的部分他們要事件你就有一個基本的立場好 另外我們大家知道陳提名人你也是反對反核的反核的但是我們本黨8月23號準備核三的啟用但是我必須要提醒我們陳提名人也就是\n世界各國都在用核能過去是緩和現在變成核能是安全但是你的大作幾個當中甚至於你是合適的這些審查委員你都指張要會合請問一下你當了大法官以後你會把這個緩和的觀念帶進大法官法庭裡面去做這些不利於核能的這些種種\n但是我特別要提醒七大工業國先進國家都已經把核能當成一個環保的花店的東西請問你針對這個議題陳提名人你有什麼看法報告委員這是我將近30年前核能科技的狀態所提出的看法\n三十年後因為我八年擔任考試委員全力專注在考試院的職權對環境法這一塊基本上沒有再去接觸它了我同意你的說法因為三十年前當然時代轉變有時候看法會改變\n但是我特別要提醒你核能世界趨勢是過去緩和是有理現在緩和是要理性的緩和當然這些包括日本鄰近國家我們可以看大家都在用嘛所以我希望你當了大法官以後\n千萬千萬不能把三十年緩和的這個堅定想法用在憲法的解釋這樣我特別要提醒我們陳提名人最後一個來最後一個我們大家都知道啊現在的大法官啊陳忠貞大法官啊你過去在當考試委員的時候\n確實他在當考選部部長你們對以律師考試等等你確確實實你們兩位有所堅持跟有所質疑請問一下你現在大法官通過以後就變成又是同事\n會不會前車之鑒又發生你跟他觀念不同有爭執僵持不下的情形請問我們陳提名人針對這個你有什麼解說自古文人相親\n彼此之間的學術見解都不一樣所以在學界發生爭執的狀況都是常識但是私底下大家都是法界的同事朋友絕對不會因為這樣影響到私底下法界的朋友跟同事之情誼但是有關公事部分我們當然就堅持自己的見解\n那個陳提名人我想今天我都很直接的問你一些過去不管你30年前的堅持或者考試委員的等等或者你過去跟民進黨種種的關係這個都無所謂隨時我也同意時代轉變不一樣但是當大法官當任何一個職責有任何一個職責的這些轉變跟堅持最後一個我必須要提醒我們陳提名人心中有憲法\n腦中有人名不要有綠色的想法要有自己邪術涵養的主張所以我真的蠻期待我們陳提名人謝謝林委員\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:18.257 --> 00:26.208\n謝謝主席請陳大法官提名人請被提名人陳慈揚教授答詢\n\n00:34.134 --> 00:58.884\n陳提名人我想因為本席啊針對不管你在當考試委員或者當寫者專家的時候當然我特別要提醒也就是上一次的大法官的提名七個通通不通過不通過的原因是因為力猶有\n\n01:00.888 --> 01:12.123\n其中有一位劉靜儀教授他是國民黨的媽民進黨的媽民眾黨的柯文哲他也媽但是本港\n\n01:13.373 --> 01:41.219\n特別投贊成票也就是給劉靜儀教授這個才是要真正可以當大法官沒有送上面的壓力自己有自己的主張那我就感覺到很奇怪喔民進黨自己封殺劉靜儀教授這代表什麼就代表就是賴總統提名的大法官不一定\n\n01:42.014 --> 01:57.059\n就只有聽賴清德的那就一定會通過這個我特別要提醒可是上一次是力猶猶那這一次啊又加上兩個這樣的所有七個提名人當然\n\n01:58.560 --> 02:26.388\n陳教授陳提名人是不是這樣我不曉得可是其他的部分我要給他形容這是傳統食物來陳提名人這是什麼乖乖乖乖齁是上次力猶有這次又加上什麼聽話的乖乖牌所以我拿這些乖乖啊就是台灣人的口味但是我坦白講\n\n02:28.352 --> 02:55.264\n說實在的當一個大法官不是只有力有有也不能只有乖乖牌如果是這樣大法官的職責本來他就是維護憲華解釋憲華非常重要的職責所以這一點我特別要跟我們提名人特別提醒未來如果你當大法官以後\n\n02:56.224 --> 03:20.915\n你有顏色另外一回事但是千萬不能做乖乖派這一點我要提醒你好那個陳提名的來我現在啊我剛剛講力有有當然我這個你事實上你自己也知道在民進黨執政這九年當中你不管是考試委員或者你在授課的當中\n\n03:21.963 --> 03:37.203\n我在想民進黨任何一個跟法例有關的跟憲法有關的當然吉利增調會你是申請人欸那有很多法例案\n\n03:38.171 --> 04:00.062\n那這些等等我們就不再浪費時間我要請問你過去是寫者專家現在你準備大法官被提名人你在這個部分跟民進黨的這些關係未來你如果通過以後你會有什麼起色請問\n\n04:02.896 --> 04:21.717\n報告委員,從我106年開始擔任考試委員,整個就可以證明我在考試院任內所有的兼職,當然不是政黨的兼職,我從來沒有兼職過政黨,所有的各院的這個術院審議委員等等全部辭掉,\n\n04:22.398 --> 04:37.544\n也不參加除跟考試院職權有關的相關的演講或報告這裡第一個我就可以證明我本身就是基於超然的地位在行使考試委員職權這以前可以驗證\n\n04:38.844 --> 05:05.462\n那你在當大法官的時候也是會秉存你這種精神但是你在寫者專家對你不放心的就是確確實實你比力猶有更力猶有好那沒關係這個是我們的感覺但是你的做法就是未來表現給人家看嘛當然也不能說過去如何做跟現在如何做未來如何做我們就是\n\n05:06.323 --> 05:33.126\n把他蓋關這個論斷那這個當然對你也是不公平但是我特別再來請教你一個問題除了你當然跟民進黨力有有的那種顏色是非常密切但是我要請教你現在家人還有沒有在當有幾職或無幾職的民進黨的重要職務有沒有\n\n05:33.866 --> 05:58.925\n報告委員我的太太郭立貞教授現在擔任民進黨的仲裁委員但是跟委員報告夫妻除了共贏婚姻生活家庭關係以及親子關係以外個人的職業的發展跟個人的一個自己決定的這相關的這個OKOK好我現在疑問的是這樣陳提名人\n\n05:59.545 --> 06:08.001\n我在疑問的為什麼我要問這個當然夫人她如何去做她想法怎麼去做跟你的職位當然不\n\n06:09.107 --> 06:30.633\n不等於啦但是有一點因為本黨台灣民眾黨在問鑒的時候你提到這個部分你如果現在在宴會裡面直接講答我夫人是怎麼樣怎麼樣怎麼樣這個問題我就不會問喔你答的是依憲法之規定\n\n06:33.854 --> 06:57.979\n9條10條11條辦理這個就有一點迴避的意思那個是指我個人有利益衝突的時候那個問題是問個人有利益衝突的時候所以我才依據憲法訴訟法並沒有問到說你家人或者是你的幾等親之內並沒有問所以我的回答是非常誠實的所以我坦白講啦\n\n06:58.559 --> 07:21.764\n所以這樣就會讓我們猜疑你是在做迴避那有做就有做有什麼關係因為民進黨本來就是正當的政黨啊報告委員因為那個問題點只問我本人所以我的回答是針對本人如果有問家人我一定會回答除了太太以外其他還有沒有沒有沒有了齁我希望這樣剛才為什麼我會講\n\n07:24.705 --> 07:53.937\n除了力猶有當然我們要尊重參加任何政黨那其他的職務無所謂但是當了大法官以後他是憲法為重所以不能有政黨色彩太明顯這是我們很在乎的也認為說過去你怎麼做讓我們感覺你是力猶有再加上力猶有報告我人我在考試委員任內絕對沒有這樣子的情形\n\n07:55.718 --> 08:19.535\n另外一個就是會死的問題會死的問題你也曾經講過也就是說執行死刑對於生命的侵犯行為請問現在以死刑一字節實質會死的這些你現在未來有什麼看法\n\n08:20.453 --> 08:49.219\n報告委員我在回答貴黨團的意見裡面提到除了要堅守憲法的價值核心大法官還要堅固基於國民主權國民的情感及價值共識所以我在這邊可以理解也認同死刑的存在而且有感同身受報告委員還有一段是來來來陳提名人來你發表這個意思就是你反對\n\n08:50.609 --> 09:00.923\n你反對的意思不是也就是說執行死刑是侵犯的立場所以這些有時候你現在講說你尊重\n\n09:02.630 --> 09:27.510\n這個死刑的存在那當然這個我們尊重你可是我把問題凸顯出來是讓你未來在這個部分你當了大法官以後在這個部分要特別去留意因為你在寫者在平常所表示的這些就讓我們感覺是你根本就是賄使的使用者吧從\n\n09:29.271 --> 09:44.600\n我相信那句話是從理論推論的應該是從基本權核心理論推論出的你還是尊重有死刑的存在我還是尊重因為是至於國民主權我跟委員報告我留得的我的背景\n\n09:45.305 --> 10:11.904\n德國的法院的判決除了前面第一個是他的國規以外另外他會寫到以德意志人民之名來做成判決所以一定要尊重國民法官法也是如此我知道我知道我知道你我拜讀過你很多你很多這個大作啦所以你很多資料我都有蒐集啦那因為我是認為講這句話會產生讓人家你\n\n10:16.809 --> 10:29.629\n不存在死刑的存在所以這一點要特別那你已經公開在大宴裡面已經講了你是死刑的存在你是尊重的所以這個部分要\n\n10:30.350 --> 10:47.501\n未來大法官是在解釋憲法是在解釋違憲與否所以這個部分是特別提醒你接下來可能比較敏感也就是本黨跟我們立法院已經三讀通過的法庭直播的問題\n\n10:48.622 --> 11:16.883\n那法庭直播已經三讀通過算一個法律案嘛因為這個法院組織法裡面其實這個也沒有牽涉到任何人那這些人我就感覺到很奇怪啊民進黨就一直在講事實神根本不能直播嘛就是法律神才有可能直播更何況兩個重點一個重點就是社會矚目重大的案子一個就是\n\n11:18.204 --> 11:43.790\n那大家所關心重要的兩個議題才有可能直播這直播是被告可以申請法官做最後的裁定那我不曉得法庭直播不是什麼洪水猛獸那為什麼他們在反對這個就是什麼自己心裡面有鬼所以一直在阻擋來陳提名人未來你是大法官針對這個問題你有什麼看法\n\n11:46.639 --> 12:11.792\n報告委員我在貴黨團提的書面意見已經提到法庭直播基本上立法院已經通過尊重立法院的決定裡面有關法律審以開放直播為原則事實審視例外而且要最後由法官依職權來認定當然當事人可以申請這些我都予以尊重\n\n12:12.312 --> 12:37.937\n不過有一件事我必須因為司法院已經也提到了裡面有非常多會涉及到隱私權涉及到相關的權利事實層才會有隱私權兩個要做來我只是提法律的要件希望司法院司法院已經承諾說要司法行政所長要你如果要談這些我就認為你沒有誠心面對\n\n12:38.917 --> 13:05.100\n今天我剛才已經講這是事實審當然不在此現了那法律審當然是社會矚目的重大議案你還在講什麼個人的隱私那是最後才法官來裁定嘛所以這些東西我不曉得他們在怕什麼道泰委員我是說配套措施而已啦我並不是我是說配套措施不是說我有很多議題來陳提名人來我有很多議題\n\n13:06.461 --> 13:21.811\n現在就是現在的政府尤其教育部啊用一個什麼健康有序不涉及正式矮化等等的東西用這種變通限制做協助交流但是\n\n13:23.171 --> 13:44.829\n我們大家都知道陳提名人你也曾經去過大陸喔也做過協助交流那我們本院也有民進黨委員講講說交流就是統戰請問這是人民的行的權利請問你贊不贊同交流就是統戰你贊不贊同\n\n13:46.929 --> 14:09.855\n人民有行動遷徙等等的自由這憲法明文保障但是依據憲法23條如果社交公共利益等等這些是可以以法律限制但是不能剝奪我講的是交流兩制跟統戰無關但是我們院裡面民進黨有委員講交流\n\n14:10.695 --> 14:17.202\n什麼叫做交流交流就是大家互相的知識的交換交流的情感\n\n14:18.210 --> 14:40.289\n並非有統獨的這些交流當然統獨不可以啊法律規定得很清楚啊所以我現在請教你的就是交流就是統戰你讚不讚同因為未來你是要做大法官喔大法官是要做憲法人民權利的解釋喔\n\n14:41.030 --> 15:05.202\n所以你同不同意這句話報告委員這是大院各委員彼此之間的在職權行使的發表當然我們言論自由我們都尊重他來陳提名人我跟你講我們任何一個立法委員他有免責權這個OK我們都尊重他言論自由但是我要請教你因為未來你是要做大法官\n\n15:06.002 --> 15:34.715\n交流就是統戰你同不同意我認為我要你回答你同不同意交流就是統戰原則上交流並不是統戰但是有很多狀況之下要經大院來做相關的立法或配套這是尊重大院的職權陳教授陳提名人你如果繼續這樣講我就開始要用這種不理性的來問你\n\n15:35.535 --> 15:59.928\n因為你不同意就是不同意嘛這本來交流就不是統戰嘛那明明就是要把它交流就把它變成統戰這叫做什麼這叫做政治化的思想啊什麼這樣就統戰那如果是這樣你幾年下來2013年2014年2017年你都有學術啊你有去見過統戰部的人嗎沒有嘛\n\n16:03.650 --> 16:23.124\n那為什麼要把你醜化你也是一個統戰啊所以陳提名的人未來你是要當法官我要的就是這一句話你到底同不同意你已經講說不同意但是尊重他的言論自由我一樣跟你的心態一樣我也反對這句話就是統戰但是最起碼的話\n\n16:24.741 --> 16:49.691\n也就是其他的部分他們要事件你就有一個基本的立場好另外我們大家知道陳提名人你也是反對反核的反核的但是我們本黨8月23號準備核三的啟用但是我必須要提醒我們陳提名人也就是\n\n16:51.303 --> 17:20.309\n世界各國都在用核能過去是緩和現在變成核能是安全但是你的大作幾個當中甚至於你是合適的這些審查委員你都指張要會合請問一下你當了大法官以後你會把這個緩和的觀念帶進大法官法庭裡面去做這些不利於核能的這些種種\n\n17:21.269 --> 17:45.197\n但是我特別要提醒七大工業國先進國家都已經把核能當成一個環保的花店的東西請問你針對這個議題陳提名人你有什麼看法報告委員這是我將近30年前核能科技的狀態所提出的看法\n\n17:49.278 --> 18:07.663\n三十年後因為我八年擔任考試委員全力專注在考試院的職權對環境法這一塊基本上沒有再去接觸它了我同意你的說法因為三十年前當然時代轉變有時候看法會改變\n\n18:08.703 --> 18:29.317\n但是我特別要提醒你核能世界趨勢是過去緩和是有理現在緩和是要理性的緩和當然這些包括日本鄰近國家我們可以看大家都在用嘛所以我希望你當了大法官以後\n\n18:30.217 --> 18:51.845\n千萬千萬不能把三十年緩和的這個堅定想法用在憲法的解釋這樣我特別要提醒我們陳提名人最後一個來最後一個我們大家都知道啊現在的大法官啊陳忠貞大法官啊你過去在當考試委員的時候\n\n18:53.843 --> 19:11.424\n確實他在當考選部部長你們對以律師考試等等你確確實實你們兩位有所堅持跟有所質疑請問一下你現在大法官通過以後就變成又是同事\n\n19:12.605 --> 19:28.521\n會不會前車之鑒又發生你跟他觀念不同有爭執僵持不下的情形請問我們陳提名人針對這個你有什麼解說自古文人相親\n\n19:29.622 --> 19:51.564\n彼此之間的學術見解都不一樣所以在學界發生爭執的狀況都是常識但是私底下大家都是法界的同事朋友絕對不會因為這樣影響到私底下法界的朋友跟同事之情誼但是有關公事部分我們當然就堅持自己的見解\n\n19:52.825 --> 20:22.305\n那個陳提名人我想今天我都很直接的問你一些過去不管你30年前的堅持或者考試委員的等等或者你過去跟民進黨種種的關係這個都無所謂隨時我也同意時代轉變不一樣但是當大法官當任何一個職責有任何一個職責的這些轉變跟堅持最後一個我必須要提醒我們陳提名人心中有憲法\n\n20:23.926 --> 20:42.981\n腦中有人名不要有綠色的想法要有自己邪術涵養的主張所以我真的蠻期待我們陳提名人謝謝林委員\n\n","segments":[{"start":18.257,"end":26.208,"text":"謝謝主席請陳大法官提名人請被提名人陳慈揚教授答詢"},{"start":34.134,"end":58.884,"text":"陳提名人我想因為本席啊針對不管你在當考試委員或者當寫者專家的時候當然我特別要提醒也就是上一次的大法官的提名七個通通不通過不通過的原因是因為力猶有"},{"start":60.888,"end":72.123,"text":"其中有一位劉靜儀教授他是國民黨的媽民進黨的媽民眾黨的柯文哲他也媽但是本港"},{"start":73.373,"end":101.219,"text":"特別投贊成票也就是給劉靜儀教授這個才是要真正可以當大法官沒有送上面的壓力自己有自己的主張那我就感覺到很奇怪喔民進黨自己封殺劉靜儀教授這代表什麼就代表就是賴總統提名的大法官不一定"},{"start":102.014,"end":117.059,"text":"就只有聽賴清德的那就一定會通過這個我特別要提醒可是上一次是力猶猶那這一次啊又加上兩個這樣的所有七個提名人當然"},{"start":118.56,"end":146.388,"text":"陳教授 陳提名人是不是這樣 我不曉得可是其他的部分 我要給他形容這是傳統食物來 陳提名人 這是什麼乖乖乖乖齁是上次力猶有這次又加上什麼聽話的乖乖牌所以 我拿這些乖乖啊就是台灣人的口味但是 我坦白講"},{"start":148.352,"end":175.264,"text":"說實在的當一個大法官不是只有力有有也不能只有乖乖牌如果是這樣大法官的職責本來他就是維護憲華解釋憲華非常重要的職責所以這一點我特別要跟我們提名人特別提醒未來如果你當大法官以後"},{"start":176.224,"end":200.915,"text":"你有顏色 另外一回事但是千萬不能做乖乖派這一點我要提醒你好 那個陳提名的來我現在啊我剛剛講力有有當然我這個你事實上你自己也知道在民進黨執政這九年當中你不管是考試委員或者你在授課的當中"},{"start":201.963,"end":217.203,"text":"我在想 民進黨任何一個跟法例有關的跟憲法有關的當然 吉利 增調會你是申請人欸那有很多法例案"},{"start":218.171,"end":240.062,"text":"那這些等等我們就不再浪費時間我要請問你過去是寫者專家現在你準備大法官被提名人你在這個部分跟民進黨的這些關係未來你如果通過以後你會有什麼起色請問"},{"start":242.896,"end":261.717,"text":"報告委員,從我106年開始擔任考試委員,整個就可以證明我在考試院任內所有的兼職,當然不是政黨的兼職,我從來沒有兼職過政黨,所有的各院的這個術院審議委員等等全部辭掉,"},{"start":262.398,"end":277.544,"text":"也不參加除跟考試院職權有關的相關的演講或報告這裡第一個我就可以證明我本身就是基於超然的地位在行使考試委員職權這以前可以驗證"},{"start":278.844,"end":305.462,"text":"那你在當大法官的時候也是會秉存你這種精神但是你在寫者專家對你不放心的就是確確實實你比力猶有更力猶有好那沒關係這個是我們的感覺但是你的做法就是未來表現給人家看嘛當然也不能說過去如何做跟現在如何做未來如何做我們就是"},{"start":306.323,"end":333.126,"text":"把他蓋關這個論斷那這個當然對你也是不公平但是我特別再來請教你一個問題除了你當然跟民進黨力有有的那種顏色是非常密切但是我要請教你現在家人還有沒有在當有幾職或無幾職的民進黨的重要職務有沒有"},{"start":333.866,"end":358.925,"text":"報告委員我的太太郭立貞教授現在擔任民進黨的仲裁委員但是跟委員報告夫妻除了共贏婚姻生活家庭關係以及親子關係以外個人的職業的發展跟個人的一個自己決定的這相關的這個OK OK 好我現在疑問的是這樣陳提名人"},{"start":359.545,"end":368.001,"text":"我在疑問的為什麼我要問這個當然夫人她如何去做她想法怎麼去做跟你的職位當然不"},{"start":369.107,"end":390.633,"text":"不等於啦但是有一點因為本黨台灣民眾黨在問鑒的時候你提到這個部分你如果現在在宴會裡面直接講答我夫人是怎麼樣怎麼樣怎麼樣這個問題我就不會問喔你答的是依憲法之規定"},{"start":393.854,"end":417.979,"text":"9條10條11條辦理這個就有一點迴避的意思那個是指我個人有利益衝突的時候那個問題是問個人有利益衝突的時候所以我才依據憲法訴訟法並沒有問到說你家人或者是你的幾等親之內並沒有問所以我的回答是非常誠實的所以我坦白講啦"},{"start":418.559,"end":441.764,"text":"所以這樣就會讓我們猜疑你是在做迴避那有做就有做有什麼關係因為民進黨本來就是正當的政黨啊報告委員因為那個問題點只問我本人所以我的回答是針對本人如果有問家人我一定會回答除了太太以外其他還有沒有沒有沒有了齁我希望這樣剛才為什麼我會講"},{"start":444.705,"end":473.937,"text":"除了力猶有當然我們要尊重參加任何政黨那其他的職務無所謂但是當了大法官以後他是憲法為重所以不能有政黨色彩太明顯這是我們很在乎的也認為說過去你怎麼做讓我們感覺你是力猶有再加上力猶有報告我人我在考試委員任內絕對沒有這樣子的情形"},{"start":475.718,"end":499.535,"text":"另外一個就是會死的問題會死的問題你也曾經講過也就是說執行死刑對於生命的侵犯行為請問現在以死刑一字節實質會死的這些你現在未來有什麼看法"},{"start":500.453,"end":529.219,"text":"報告委員我在回答貴黨團的意見裡面提到除了要堅守憲法的價值核心大法官還要堅固基於國民主權國民的情感及價值共識所以我在這邊可以理解也認同死刑的存在而且有感同身受報告委員還有一段是來來來陳提名人來你發表這個意思就是你反對"},{"start":530.609,"end":540.923,"text":"你反對的意思不是也就是說執行死刑是侵犯的立場所以這些有時候你現在講說你尊重"},{"start":542.63,"end":567.51,"text":"這個死刑的存在那當然這個我們尊重你可是我把問題凸顯出來是讓你未來在這個部分你當了大法官以後在這個部分要特別去留意因為你在寫者在平常所表示的這些就讓我們感覺是你根本就是賄使的使用者吧從"},{"start":569.271,"end":584.6,"text":"我相信那句話是從理論推論的應該是從基本權核心理論推論出的你還是尊重有死刑的存在我還是尊重 因為是至於國民主權我跟委員報告我留得的 我的背景"},{"start":585.305,"end":611.904,"text":"德國的法院的判決除了前面第一個是他的國規以外另外他會寫到以德意志人民之名來做成判決所以一定要尊重國民法官法也是如此我知道我知道我知道你我拜讀過你很多你很多這個大作啦所以你很多資料我都有蒐集啦那因為我是認為講這句話會產生讓人家你"},{"start":616.809,"end":629.629,"text":"不存在死刑的存在所以這一點要特別那你已經公開在大宴裡面已經講了你是死刑的存在你是尊重的所以這個部分要"},{"start":630.35,"end":647.501,"text":"未來大法官是在解釋憲法是在解釋違憲與否所以這個部分是特別提醒你接下來可能比較敏感也就是本黨跟我們立法院已經三讀通過的法庭直播的問題"},{"start":648.622,"end":676.883,"text":"那法庭直播已經三讀通過算一個法律案嘛因為這個法院組織法裡面其實這個也沒有牽涉到任何人那這些人我就感覺到很奇怪啊民進黨就一直在講事實神根本不能直播嘛就是法律神才有可能直播更何況兩個重點一個重點就是社會矚目重大的案子一個就是"},{"start":678.204,"end":703.79,"text":"那大家所關心重要的兩個議題才有可能直播這直播是被告可以申請法官做最後的裁定那我不曉得法庭直播不是什麼洪水猛獸那為什麼他們在反對這個就是什麼自己心裡面有鬼所以一直在阻擋來陳提名人未來你是大法官針對這個問題你有什麼看法"},{"start":706.639,"end":731.792,"text":"報告委員我在貴黨團提的書面意見已經提到法庭直播基本上立法院已經通過尊重立法院的決定裡面有關法律審以開放直播為原則事實審視例外而且要最後由法官依職權來認定當然當事人可以申請這些我都予以尊重"},{"start":732.312,"end":757.937,"text":"不過有一件事我必須因為司法院已經也提到了裡面有非常多會涉及到隱私權涉及到相關的權利事實層才會有隱私權兩個要做來我只是提法律的要件希望司法院司法院已經承諾說要司法行政所長要你如果要談這些我就認為你沒有誠心面對"},{"start":758.917,"end":785.1,"text":"今天我剛才已經講這是事實審當然不在此現了那法律審當然是社會矚目的重大議案你還在講什麼個人的隱私那是最後才法官來裁定嘛所以這些東西我不曉得他們在怕什麼道泰委員我是說配套措施而已啦我並不是我是說配套措施不是說我有很多議題來陳提名人來我有很多議題"},{"start":786.461,"end":801.811,"text":"現在就是現在的政府尤其教育部啊用一個什麼健康有序不涉及正式矮化等等的東西用這種變通限制做協助交流但是"},{"start":803.171,"end":824.829,"text":"我們大家都知道陳提名人你也曾經去過大陸喔也做過協助交流那我們本院也有民進黨委員講講說交流就是統戰請問這是人民的行的權利請問你贊不贊同交流就是統戰你贊不贊同"},{"start":826.929,"end":849.855,"text":"人民有行動遷徙等等的自由這憲法明文保障但是依據憲法23條如果社交公共利益等等這些是可以以法律限制但是不能剝奪我講的是交流兩制跟統戰無關但是我們院裡面民進黨有委員講交流"},{"start":850.695,"end":857.202,"text":"什麼叫做交流 交流就是大家互相的知識的交換 交流的情感"},{"start":858.21,"end":880.289,"text":"並非有統獨的這些交流當然統獨不可以啊 法律規定得很清楚啊所以我現在請教你的就是交流就是統戰 你讚不讚同因為未來你是要做大法官喔大法官是要做憲法人民權利的解釋喔"},{"start":881.03,"end":905.202,"text":"所以你同不同意這句話報告委員這是大院各委員彼此之間的在職權行使的發表當然我們言論自由我們都尊重他來陳提名人我跟你講我們任何一個立法委員他有免責權這個OK我們都尊重他言論自由但是我要請教你因為未來你是要做大法官"},{"start":906.002,"end":934.715,"text":"交流就是統戰你同不同意我認為我要你回答你同不同意交流就是統戰原則上交流並不是統戰但是有很多狀況之下要經大院來做相關的立法或配套這是尊重大院的職權陳教授 陳提名人你如果繼續這樣講我就開始要用這種不理性的來問你"},{"start":935.535,"end":959.928,"text":"因為你不同意就是不同意嘛這本來交流就不是統戰嘛那明明就是要把它交流就把它變成統戰這叫做什麼這叫做政治化的思想啊什麼這樣就統戰那如果是這樣你幾年下來2013年2014年2017年你都有學術啊你有去見過統戰部的人嗎沒有嘛"},{"start":963.65,"end":983.124,"text":"那為什麼要把你醜化 你也是一個統戰啊所以陳提名的人 未來你是要當法官我要的就是這一句話你到底同不同意 你已經講說不同意但是尊重他的言論自由我一樣 跟你的心態一樣我也反對這句話就是統戰但是最起碼的話"},{"start":984.741,"end":1009.691,"text":"也就是其他的部分他們要事件你就有一個基本的立場好 另外我們大家知道陳提名人你也是反對反核的反核的但是我們本黨8月23號準備核三的啟用但是我必須要提醒我們陳提名人也就是"},{"start":1011.303,"end":1040.309,"text":"世界各國都在用核能過去是緩和現在變成核能是安全但是你的大作幾個當中甚至於你是合適的這些審查委員你都指張要會合請問一下你當了大法官以後你會把這個緩和的觀念帶進大法官法庭裡面去做這些不利於核能的這些種種"},{"start":1041.269,"end":1065.197,"text":"但是我特別要提醒七大工業國先進國家都已經把核能當成一個環保的花店的東西請問你針對這個議題陳提名人你有什麼看法報告委員這是我將近30年前核能科技的狀態所提出的看法"},{"start":1069.278,"end":1087.663,"text":"三十年後因為我八年擔任考試委員全力專注在考試院的職權對環境法這一塊基本上沒有再去接觸它了我同意你的說法因為三十年前當然時代轉變有時候看法會改變"},{"start":1088.703,"end":1109.317,"text":"但是我特別要提醒你核能世界趨勢是過去緩和是有理現在緩和是要理性的緩和當然這些包括日本鄰近國家我們可以看大家都在用嘛所以我希望你當了大法官以後"},{"start":1110.217,"end":1131.845,"text":"千萬千萬不能把三十年緩和的這個堅定想法用在憲法的解釋這樣我特別要提醒我們陳提名人最後一個來最後一個我們大家都知道啊現在的大法官啊陳忠貞大法官啊你過去在當考試委員的時候"},{"start":1133.843,"end":1151.424,"text":"確實他在當考選部部長你們對以律師考試等等你確確實實你們兩位有所堅持跟有所質疑請問一下你現在大法官通過以後就變成又是同事"},{"start":1152.605,"end":1168.521,"text":"會不會前車之鑒又發生你跟他觀念不同有爭執僵持不下的情形請問我們陳提名人針對這個你有什麼解說自古文人相親"},{"start":1169.622,"end":1191.564,"text":"彼此之間的學術見解都不一樣所以在學界發生爭執的狀況都是常識但是私底下大家都是法界的同事朋友絕對不會因為這樣影響到私底下法界的朋友跟同事之情誼但是有關公事部分我們當然就堅持自己的見解"},{"start":1192.825,"end":1222.305,"text":"那個陳提名人我想今天我都很直接的問你一些過去不管你30年前的堅持或者考試委員的等等或者你過去跟民進黨種種的關係這個都無所謂隨時我也同意時代轉變不一樣但是當大法官當任何一個職責有任何一個職責的這些轉變跟堅持最後一個我必須要提醒我們陳提名人心中有憲法"},{"start":1223.926,"end":1242.981,"text":"腦中有人名不要有綠色的想法要有自己邪術涵養的主張所以我真的蠻期待我們陳提名人謝謝林委員"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":189,"blocks":[["林委員國成：（9時31分）謝謝主席。請陳大法官被提名人。"],["主席：請被提名人陳慈陽教授答詢。"],["陳慈陽被提名人：委員好。"],["林委員國成：好。陳被提名人，不管你當考試委員或學者專家，本席都要特別提醒，上一次的7位大法官被提名人通通不通過，而不通過的原因是因為綠友友。其中的劉靜怡教授，他國民黨也罵，民進黨也罵，民眾黨的柯文哲也罵，但本黨仍特別投贊成票給劉靜怡教授，因為這樣才真正可以當大法官，不受上面的壓力，有自己的主張。但是很奇怪，民進黨自己封殺了劉靜怡教授，這代表什麼？代表賴總統所提名的大法官，不一定只聽賴清德的就一定會通過，這點我要特別提醒。","上一次是綠友友，這一次又加上2個，即有7個被提名人。當然，陳教授、陳被提名人是不是這樣？我不曉得。但對其他人，我要用一種傳統食物來形容他們。陳被提名人，這是什麼？"],["陳慈陽被提名人：乖乖。"],["林委員國成：乖乖，上次是綠友友，這次則是又加上聽話的乖乖牌。我拿的這些乖乖是臺灣人的口味，不過坦白說，當大法官不能只有綠友友，也不能只有乖乖牌。大法官的職責是維護憲法，解釋憲法，非常重要，這點我要特別提醒陳被提名人。未來如果你當了大法官，你有顏色是另外一回事，但千萬不能做乖乖牌，這一點我要提醒你。","陳被提名人，我剛剛講到綠友友，事實上你自己也知道，在民進黨執政這九年當中，你不管是擔任考試委員或者是在授課當中，我在想，民進黨任何一個跟法律有關的、跟憲法有關的，舉例真調會，你是聲請人耶，有很多法律案等等，我們就不再浪費時間，我要請問，你過去是學者專家，現在你是大法官被提名人，你跟民進黨的這些關係，未來你如果通過以後，會有什麼取捨？"],["陳慈陽被提名人：報告委員，從我106年開始擔任考試委員就可以證明，我在考試院任內所有的兼職，當然不是政黨的兼職，我從來沒有兼職過政黨職務，所有各院的訴願審議委員等等全部辭掉，也不參加跟考試院職權無關的演講或報告，第一個，這就可以證明我本身就是基於超然的地位在行使考試委員的職權，以前的作法可以驗證，這是第一個。"],["林委員國成：那你在當大法官的時候也是會秉持你這種精神？"],["陳慈陽被提名人：當然是絕對……"],["林委員國成：但是你之前是學者專家時，對你不放心的就是確確實實你比綠友友更綠友友。"],["陳慈陽被提名人：報告委員……"],["林委員國成：沒關係，這個是我們的感覺，但是你的作法就是未來表現給人家看嘛！當然也不能說過去如何做跟現在如何做，對於未來如何做我們就先蓋棺論斷，這個當然對你也是不公平。","我特別再來請教你一個問題，除了你是民進黨綠友友的顏色非常密切外，我要請教你的是，現在你的家人還有沒有在民進黨內擔任不論是有給職或無給職的重要職務？有沒有？"],["陳慈陽被提名人：報告委員，我的太太郭麗珍教授現在擔任民進黨的仲裁委員，但是跟委員報告，夫妻除了共營婚姻生活、家庭關係以及親子關係以外，個人的職業發展跟個人自己決定的相關事項……"],["林委員國成：這個OK、OK！好，我現在的疑問是這樣，陳被提名人，為什麼我要問這個？當然夫人如何去做，他想怎麼去做，跟你的職位當然不等於啦。但是有一點，因為本黨（台灣民眾黨）在問卷的時候，你提到這個部分時，如果像現在在院會裡面直接回答我夫人是怎麼樣、怎麼樣，這個問題我就不會問了，但你的回答的是依憲法訴訟法規定之第九條、第十條、第十一條辦理，這個就有一點迴避的意思。"],["陳慈陽被提名人：報告委員，那個是指我個人有利益衝突的時候，那個問題是問個人有利益衝突的時候，所以我才說依據憲法訴訟法，並沒有問到家人或者是幾等親之內，並沒有問，所以我的回答是非常誠實的。"],["林委員國成：是啦！所以我坦白講，這樣就會讓我們猜疑你是在迴避，有做就有做，有什麼關係？因為民進黨本來就是正當的政黨啊！"],["陳慈陽被提名人：報告委員，因為那個問題點只問我本人，所以我的回答是針對本人……"],["林委員國成：好，那你現在……"],["陳慈陽被提名人：如果有問家人，我一定會回答。"],["林委員國成：除了太太以外，其他還有沒有？"],["陳慈陽被提名人：沒有。"],["林委員國成：沒有了？"],["陳慈陽被提名人：沒有。"],["林委員國成：好，我希望這樣，剛才為什麼我會講除了綠友友，當然我們要尊重參加任何政黨，其他的職務無所謂，但是當了大法官以後，應該以憲法為重，所以政黨色彩不能太明顯，這是我們很在乎的，也認為過去你的作為讓我們感覺你是綠友友再加上綠友友，所以……"],["陳慈陽被提名人：但是報告委員，我在考試委員任內絕對沒有這樣子的情形。"],["林委員國成：好，可以。另外一個就是廢死的問題，針對廢死的問題，你也曾經講過，執行死刑是對生命的侵犯行為，請問對於現在的死刑一致決、實質廢死的這些，你現在未來有什麼看法？"],["陳慈陽被提名人：報告委員，我在回答貴黨團的意見裡面提到，大法官除了要堅守憲法的價值核心，還要兼顧基於國民主權、國民的情感及價值共識，所以我在這邊可以理解，也認同死刑的存在，而且有感同身受。","報告委員，還有一件事……"],["林委員國成：陳被提名人，你發表這個的意思就是你反對的意思？"],["陳慈陽被提名人：不是。"],["林委員國成：也就是說，執行死刑是侵犯的立場，所以你現在講你尊重死刑的存在，當然我們尊重你，可是我把問題凸顯出來，是讓你未來當了大法官以後，在這個部分要特別去留意，因為你在當學者時以及平常所表示的這些立場，讓我們感覺你根本就是廢死的死忠擁護者。"],["陳慈陽被提名人：我相信那一句話是從理論推論的，應該是從基本權核心理論去推論出來。"],["林委員國成：你還是尊重要有死刑的存在？"],["陳慈陽被提名人：我還是尊重，因為這是基於國民主權。我跟委員報告，我的背景是留德的，德國法院的判決，除了前面第一個是它的國徽以外，另外它會寫到以德意志人民之名來做成判決，所以一定要尊重國民，國民法官法也是如此。"],["林委員國成：陳被提名人，我知道，我拜讀過你很多大作，所以你很多資料我都有蒐集，因為我認為講這句話會讓人家產生不存在死刑的存在，所以這一點要特別留意。你已經公開在大院裡面講了，你尊重死刑的存在，未來大法官是在檢視憲法，是在檢視違憲與否，所以這個部分我要特別提醒你。","接下來可能比較敏感，也就是本黨和立法院已經三讀通過的法庭直播問題，法庭直播已經三讀通過，算一個法律案嘛？"],["陳慈陽被提名人：是。"],["林委員國成：因為在法院組織法裡面，其實這個也沒有牽涉到任何人，我就感覺到很奇怪，民進黨一直在講，事實審根本不能直播，法律審才有可能直播，更何況兩個重點，一個重點就是社會矚目重大的案子，一個就是大家所關心的，重要的兩個議題才有可能直播，這個直播是被告可以聲請、法官做最後的裁定，法庭直播不是什麼洪水猛獸，我不曉得為什麼他們在反對？這個叫做自己心裡面有鬼，所以一直在阻擋。陳被提名人，未來你是大法官，針對這個問題，你有什麼看法？"],["陳慈陽被提名人：報告委員，我在貴黨團提的書面意見已經提到，法庭直播基本上立法院已經通過，我尊重立法院的決定，這裡面有關法律審以開放直播為原則，事實審是例外，而且最後由法官依職權來認定，當然當事人可以聲請，這些我都予以尊重。不過有一件事我必須說明，因為司法院也已經提到，裡面有非常多會涉及到隱私權，涉及到相關的權利……"],["林委員國成：事實審才會有隱私權。"],["陳慈陽被提名人：對，委員，我只是提法律的要件，希望司法院……司法院已經承諾司法行政首長要就這個部分提出配套。"],["林委員國成：你如果要談這些，我就認為你沒有誠心面對，我剛才已經講事實審不在此限，法律審當然是社會矚目的重大議案，你還在講什麼個人隱私，那是最後由法官來裁定，所以我不曉得他們在怕什麼？"],["陳慈陽被提名人：報告委員，我是說配套措施而已，我並不是說……"],["林委員國成：我還有很多議題，陳被提名人，現在的政府尤其教育部，用健康有序、不涉及政治矮化等等的東西，用這種變通限制學術交流。但是我們大家都知道，陳被提名人你也曾經去過大陸，也做過學術交流，本院也有民進黨委員講說「交流就是統戰」，但這是人民行的權利，請問你贊不贊同「交流就是統戰」，你贊不贊同？"],["陳慈陽被提名人：人民有行動遷徙等等的自由，這是憲法明文保障，但是依據憲法第二十三條，如果涉及到公共利益等等這些，是可以以法律限制，但是不能剝奪……"],["林委員國成：是啦！"],["陳慈陽被提名人：是，那這個部分就由立法院……"],["林委員國成：我講的是「交流」兩字，跟統戰無關，但是我們院裡面民進黨有委員講交流，什麼叫做交流？交流就是大家互相知識的交換、情感的交流，並非有統獨的這些交流。當然統獨不可以啊！法律規定的很清楚啊！所以，我現在請教你的就是「交流就是統戰」你贊不贊同？因為未來你是要做大法官的喔，大法官是要做憲法人民權利的解釋，所以你同不同意這句話？"],["陳慈陽被提名人：報告委員，這是大院各委員彼此之間在職權行使的發表，所以我呼籲尊重……"],["林委員國成：當然言論自由我們都尊重啊！陳被提名人，我跟你講，任何一個立法委員都有免責權，這個OK，我們都尊重他的言論自由。但是我要請教你，因為未來你要做大法官，「交流就是統戰」你同不同意？我要你回答，你同不同意「交流就是統戰」？"],["陳慈陽被提名人：原則上交流並不是統戰，但是有很多狀況之下，要經大院來做相關的立法和配套，這是尊重大院的職權。"],["林委員國成：好。不是，陳教授、陳被提名人，你如果繼續這樣講，我就開始要用這種不理性的來問你喔。"],["陳慈陽被提名人：是。"],["林委員國成：因為你不同意就是不同意，本來交流就不是統戰，那明明就是要把交流變成統戰，這叫做什麼？這叫做政治化的思想啦！什麼交流就是統戰，如果是這樣，你幾年下來，2013年、2014年、2017年你都有學術交流，你有去見過統戰部的人嗎？沒有嘛！那為什麼要把你醜化你也是一個統戰啊！所以，陳被提名人，未來你是要當大法官，我要的就是這一句話，你到底同不同意？你已經講說「不同意，但是尊重他的言論自由」。我一樣，跟你的心態一樣，我也反對「交流就是統戰」這句話，但是最起碼其他部分他們要釋憲，你就有一個基本的立場嘛！","好。另外，我們大家都知道陳被提名人你也是反核的，但是我們本黨8月23號準備核三的啟用，但是我必須要提醒陳被提名人，世界各國都在用核能。過去是反核，現在變成核能是安全，但是你的幾個大作當中，甚至於你是核四的審查委員，你都主張要廢核。請問，你當了大法官以後，你會把這個反核的觀念帶進大法官法庭裡面去做這些不利於核能的種種解釋嗎？在此，我特別要提醒你，七大工業國、先進國家都已經把核能當成一個環保的發電方式。請問，針對這個議題，陳被提名人，你有什麼看法？"],["陳慈陽被提名人：報告委員，這是我將近30年前就當時核能科技的狀態所提出的看法……"],["林委員國成：好，30年後呢？30年後你的看法？"],["陳慈陽被提名人：30年以後，因為我有8年擔任考試委員，全力專注在考試院的職權，對環境法這一塊基本上已經沒有再去接觸了，所以……"],["林委員國成：好，那我同意，我同意你的說法，因為是30年前，當然時代轉變，有時候看法會改變。但是我特別要提醒你，核能是世界趨勢，過去反核是有理，現在反核是要理性的。關於反核，當然這些包括日本鄰近國家，我們可以看到大家都在用嘛！所以我希望你當了大法官以後，千萬千萬不能把30年前反核的堅定想法用在憲法的解釋，我要特別提醒我們陳被提名人。","大家都知道，現在的大法官蔡宗珍大法官，過去你在當考試委員的時候，他在當考選部部長，對於律師考試等等，確確實實你們兩位有所堅持跟有所質疑，請問一下，你現在大法官獲得同意通過以後，你們就變成又是同事，會不會有了前車之鑑，又發生你跟他因觀念不同而有爭執、僵持不下的情形？請問陳被提名人，針對這個部分，你有什麼解說？"],["陳慈陽被提名人：報告委員，自古文人相輕，彼此之間的學術見解都不一樣，所以在學界發生爭執的狀況都是常事，但是私底下大家都是法界的同事、朋友，絕對不會因為這樣影響到私底下法界的朋友跟同事之情誼，但是有關公事部分，我們當然就堅持自己的見解。"],["林委員國成：好。陳被提名人，我想今天我都很直接的問你一些過去的情形，不管是你30年前的堅持，或者是考試委員的部分等等，或者是你過去跟民進黨種種的關係，這個都無所謂，我也同意時代的轉變會不一樣，但是當大法官、當任何一個職務要有任何一個職責的轉變跟堅持。","最後，我必須要提醒我們陳被提名人，心中有憲法，腦中有人民，不要有綠色的想法，要有自己學術涵養的主張，所以我真的滿期許我們陳被提名人能夠順利通過，但是請堅持你的理念，好不好？"],["陳慈陽被提名人：謝謝委員。"],["主席：謝謝林委員、謝謝被提名人。","下一位劉建國委員之詢問以書面提出，列入紀錄，刊登公報。"],["委員劉建國書面詢問：","本席對大法官被提名人陳慈陽先生提出以下核心關切：","前言：大法官職位空缺與憲法法庭運作困境","˙目前有七位大法官職位空缺，導致憲法法庭自去年11月起已癱瘓256天。","˙新修訂的《憲法訴訟法》規定，憲法法庭判決需十人以上評議且違憲宣告需九人以上，現有八位大法官無法滿足此門檻。","˙陳被提名人是否已準備好面對未來工作壓力巨大、環境嚴峻的大法官職務。"],["死刑及終身監禁（實質無期徒刑）\n            ：司法信任度與刑罰議題","˙本席認為台灣民眾對司法信任度低落，尤其對死刑議題不滿。","˙要求陳被提名人闡明對死刑的立場。","˙針對法務部擬推動的「無期徒刑不得假釋」修法，本席質詢陳被提名人若未來有釋憲爭議時的立場。","˙此議題對大法官而言無法迴避，陳被提名人先前回覆問卷時未明確表態，期盼能進一步補充說明。","法庭直播：透明化與人身安全疑慮","˙本席注意到，立法院強行通過《法院組織法》修正案，開放法庭直播，但缺乏明確條件與庭上人員保護措施。","˙本席擔憂法庭直播可能導致司法官、證人、鑑定人等人身安全受威脅，並受輿論壓力影響。","˙要求陳被提名人闡述對法庭直播的看法，以及未來若有相關釋憲案時，如何保障法庭審判不受外力介入。","總結：提升司法信任度之作為","˙上述議題皆環繞著台灣民眾對司法信任度低落的核心問題。","˙最後請教陳被提名人，若擔任大法官，除了憲法審查外，還能有何方式或作為來協助提升台灣人民對司法的信任。"],["主席：下一位請葛如鈞委員詢問。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":532,"meet_id":"全院委員會-11-3-4","speakers":["江啟臣","陳玉珍","林國成","劉建國","葛如鈞","郭昱晴","柯志恩","陳培瑜","陳昭姿","蘇巧慧","陳俊宇","牛煦庭","盧縣一"],"page_start":467,"meetingDate":["2025-07-14"],"gazette_id":"1146501","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1146501_00009","1146501_00010"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期第4次全院委員會會議紀錄","content":"總統咨，為司法院大法官含院長、副院長，現有缺額7名，茲依據中華民國憲法增修條文第5條規\n定，提名蔡秋明、蘇素娥、蕭文生、鄭純惠、林麗瑩、陳慈陽、詹鎮榮7位為司法院大法官，並\n以蔡秋明為院長、蘇素娥為副院長，咨請同意案（後接第二冊）","agenda_id":"1146501_00005"}}}