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\"text\": \"應該要有這方面的一個更強化更積極的作為那如果未來將來有人申請釋憲就類似的這樣子的一個案件他申請的釋憲你認為這個羈押制度對於所謂的被害人保護不足而構成所謂的違憲您認為大法官有沒有機會可以有介入的空間\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"應\"}, {\"word\": \"該\"}, {\"word\": \"要\", \"start\": 345.947, \"end\": 346.127, \"score\": 0.904}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 346.127, \"end\": 346.587, \"score\": 0.954}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"方\", \"start\": 346.587, \"end\": 346.768, \"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"面\", \"start\": 346.768, \"end\": 347.008, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 347.008, \"end\": 347.148, \"score\": 0.954}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 347.148, \"end\": 347.568, \"score\": 0.952}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"更\", \"start\": 347.568, \"end\": 348.209, \"score\": 0.968}, {\"word\": \"強\"}, {\"word\": \"化\", \"start\": 348.209, \"end\": 348.59, \"score\": 0.955}, {\"word\": \"更\", \"start\": 348.59, \"end\": 349.13, \"score\": 0.924}, {\"word\": \"積\"}, {\"word\": \"極\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 349.13, \"end\": 349.25, \"score\": 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{\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 629.947, \"end\": 630.227, \"score\": 0.928}, {\"word\": \"規\"}, {\"word\": \"定\", \"start\": 630.227, \"end\": 630.407, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"如\", \"start\": 630.407, \"end\": 630.627, \"score\": 0.9}, {\"word\": \"何\", \"start\": 630.627, \"end\": 631.388, \"score\": 0.941}, {\"word\": \"才\", \"start\": 631.388, \"end\": 631.528, \"score\": 0.901}, {\"word\": \"能\", \"start\": 631.528, \"end\": 631.548, \"score\": 0.087}, {\"word\": \"夠\"}]}, {\"start\": 632.188, \"end\": 660.214, \"text\": \"那如果這被害人他主張在刑法跟民法的時效當中這個制度其實他的經驗其實這個部分我們的解釋是違憲的那您認為大法官是不是可以透過所謂的釋憲給予更彈性的一個法律解釋基本上大法官可以在立法者還未進行這個立法漏洞的一個填補過程當中來可以填補這樣子一個漏洞但是最後還是要尊重大院有關立法將大法官所提出的相關的原則\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 632.188, \"end\": 632.928, \"score\": 0.906}, {\"word\": \"如\", \"start\": 632.928, \"end\": 633.148, \"score\": 0.892}, {\"word\": \"果\", \"start\": 633.148, \"end\": 633.428, \"score\": 0.926}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"被\", \"start\": 633.428, \"end\": 633.548, 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784.841, \"score\": 0.203}, {\"word\": \"則\"}]}, {\"start\": 785.501, \"end\": 800.442, \"text\": \"透明公開原則等等這些的一個程序的規範所以說在這種情形之下學校的調查程序如果能夠最好能夠是在法律或法律授權的辦法裡面去明定那依據這樣的程序\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"透\", \"start\": 785.501, \"end\": 785.721, \"score\": 0.99}, {\"word\": \"明\", \"start\": 785.721, \"end\": 785.942, \"score\": 0.958}, {\"word\": \"公\", \"start\": 785.942, \"end\": 786.282, \"score\": 0.872}, {\"word\": \"開\"}, {\"word\": \"原\", \"start\": 786.282, \"end\": 787.003, \"score\": 0.966}, {\"word\": \"則\"}, {\"word\": \"等\", \"start\": 787.003, \"end\": 787.163, \"score\": 0.758}, {\"word\": \"等\", \"start\": 787.163, \"end\": 787.444, \"score\": 0.923}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"些\", \"start\": 787.444, \"end\": 787.644, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 787.644, \"end\": 787.744, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 787.744, \"end\": 787.944, \"score\": 0.826}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"程\", \"start\": 787.944, \"end\": 788.145, \"score\": 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\"start\": 861.78, \"end\": 861.94, \"score\": 0.928}, {\"word\": \"要\", \"start\": 861.94, \"end\": 862.24, \"score\": 0.886}, {\"word\": \"還\"}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 862.24, \"end\": 862.34, \"score\": 0.925}, {\"word\": \"要\", \"start\": 862.34, \"end\": 862.541, \"score\": 0.981}, {\"word\": \"法\", \"start\": 862.541, \"end\": 862.701, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"律\", \"start\": 862.701, \"end\": 862.861, \"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 862.861, \"end\": 863.141, \"score\": 0.919}, {\"word\": \"規\"}, {\"word\": \"定\", \"start\": 863.141, \"end\": 863.301, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"跟\", \"start\": 863.301, \"end\": 863.481, \"score\": 0.891}, {\"word\": \"法\", \"start\": 863.481, \"end\": 863.641, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"律\", \"start\": 863.641, \"end\": 863.761, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 863.761, \"end\": 863.861, \"score\": 0.803}, {\"word\": \"授\", \"start\": 863.861, \"end\": 864.481, \"score\": 0.948}, {\"word\": \"權\"}, {\"word\": \"才\", \"start\": 864.481, \"end\": 864.681, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"可\", \"start\": 864.681, \"end\": 864.761, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 864.761, \"end\": 865.082, \"score\": 0.875}, {\"word\": \"進\"}, {\"word\": \"行\", \"start\": 865.082, \"end\": 865.602, \"score\": 0.922}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"樣\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 865.602, \"end\": 865.762, \"score\": 0.875}, {\"word\": \"調\"}, {\"word\": \"查\", \"start\": 865.762, \"end\": 865.922, \"score\": 0.993}, {\"word\": \"程\", \"start\": 865.922, \"end\": 866.102, \"score\": 0.994}, {\"word\": \"序\", \"start\": 866.102, \"end\": 866.122, \"score\": 0.901}]}, {\"start\": 866.544, \"end\": 887.053, \"text\": \"因為教育自治其實是憲法重要的一個原則所謂的這個教育自治但如果校內的制度其實侵犯到了老師基本的權益您認為國家要不要介入那大法官是不是應該可以要求調查程序正義在憲法的層次上有一個比較明顯的一個規範明確的一個規範你怎麼樣來看這個所謂的憲政層次的一個張力\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"因\", \"start\": 866.544, \"end\": 866.764, \"score\": 0.828}, {\"word\": \"為\"}, {\"word\": \"教\", \"start\": 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0.901}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"參\"}, {\"word\": \"考\", \"start\": 1215.141, \"end\": 1215.542, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 1215.542, \"end\": 1215.842, \"score\": 0.982}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 1215.842, \"end\": 1216.842, \"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"郭\", \"start\": 1216.842, \"end\": 1216.982, \"score\": 0.857}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 1216.982, \"end\": 1217.002, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"員\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:12,977 --> 00:00:16,100\n有請陳教授請備題目人答詢委員好陳教授早安我想憲法法庭從去年到現在一直都是處於停擺的一個狀態\n\n2\n00:00:31,943 --> 00:00:43,864\n那憲法法庭大部分應該是95%以上應該申請釋憲的都是人民您對這樣子的一個狀況目前憲法法庭癱瘓當中您有什麼看法\n\n3\n00:00:45,066 --> 00:01:02,606\n報告委員因為我們憲法訴訟法有修改當然尊重大院的職權但是各國有關憲法訴訟法相關的規定都有原則跟例外或者我們說非常態的一個規定但是這次憲法訴訟法\n\n4\n00:01:03,847 --> 00:01:31,012\n這個部分好像並沒有看到所以才會造成這樣子對人民權利保障上面可能會有所中斷不過這是大院的職權尊重大院的職權我們當然也很遺憾看到這樣子的結果因為有很多人民申請的釋憲案到目前為止還是停放在那個地方沒有被解決我想訴諸憲法法庭申請釋憲其實是人民最後的保護自己的一個手段\n\n5\n00:01:31,411 --> 00:01:59,683\n但我們真的並不樂見這樣的一個結果好那我想呢請教這個請教說這個前一陣子我們看到這個新北屠城發生了嚴重的一個家暴的一個命案喔那我想這件事情應該是也讓很多的社會大眾開始議論紛紛喔那我想這名男子呢這個行兇的這個所謂的加害者他明明已經被核發了所謂的保護令但是仍然在開庭之後他還是\n\n6\n00:02:01,224 --> 00:02:21,536\n對這個兩名的女性來進行施暴甚至直接造成兩名女性的一個死亡那我想這個案件當中其實我們也看到家庭暴力防治法實務在運作當中可能也出現了一些所謂的這個法律明定就算他違反了保護令他可以裁定羈押但是在實務上\n\n7\n00:02:23,168 --> 00:02:50,550\n我們看到法官對於所謂的羈押的一個裁定的比例其實還是偏低那導致這個被這個保護令對於所謂的這個加害人的強制力並不足那在您認為這現行的羈押一個制度在比例原則之下是不是能夠足以保護受害者那如果在制度上他是無法防範明知有暴力風險的人再次的加害這是不是真的構成了對人身安全保障的憲法失靈的一個狀態\n\n8\n00:02:51,611 --> 00:03:18,390\n那我想就請教您如果將來您擔任所謂的大法官那會如何從憲法的觀點來審視這類的一個制度的漏洞報告委員憲法秩序多元憲法秩序之下要保障人權從未出生的胎兒一直到成年甚至到老年年長者以及甚至對死亡者的整體的一個保護\n\n9\n00:03:19,230 --> 00:03:38,658\n那這個保護的整個過程以及整個的制度的配套這都是國家應該負起的一個保護義務那在這個保護義務之下呢會透過行政跟立法兩者之間的協力來制定相關的政策以及法規以及執行\n\n10\n00:03:39,258 --> 00:04:01,862\n那在這些內容當中因為個人曾經擔任過非常多的法規委員那法規委員會的委員裡面對於各種修法的規定跟建議在這個過程當中我深深體會到土法不足以自行因為很多的法律規定都是很抽象的\n\n11\n00:04:02,422 --> 00:04:31,203\n必須靠實務的整個發展來加以配合當然也要靠實務的所謂我們的公務員來能夠有同理心來一起來補充這些法律的不足我們進一步來請教一下這個陳教授就是比例原則啦我們講這個比例原則是不是可以在這一類的高風險的情境之下讓位是讓位給所謂的這個被害人保護優先這個部分如果將來您是大法官您的見解\n\n12\n00:04:33,411 --> 00:04:51,730\n事實上比例原則上面因為這種現實的狀況出現了非常多在修法方面基本上要透過相關的配套措施更加嚴格的來針對相關的一些漏洞來加以填補基本上這些漏洞的填補\n\n13\n00:04:53,311 --> 00:05:16,385\n還是並沒有違反比例原則所以基本上在這個部分我是贊成的贊成在這個部分要更針對實務上的這些實例來補充法律的漏洞剛剛講到這個所謂的實例其實我們看到有很多的所謂的家暴的事件當中其實都有兒童涉及那就您的觀點你怎麼看待兒童最佳利益原則在憲法當中是不是具有實質的一個據書裡\n\n14\n00:05:19,952 --> 00:05:44,686\n報告委員兒童的利益這個部分呢是憲法保障的重要的法益特別在我們台灣少子化的情形之下兒童的保障特別兒童是一個毫無反抗能力或完全沒有辦法自衛能力的這樣子的一個基本權主體所以在這裡保障上面應該要更加的強化這方面的保障那主管機關\n\n15\n00:05:45,947 --> 00:06:04,408\n應該要有這方面的一個更強化更積極的作為那如果未來將來有人申請釋憲就類似的這樣子的一個案件他申請的釋憲你認為這個羈押制度對於所謂的被害人保護不足而構成所謂的違憲您認為大法官有沒有機會可以有介入的空間\n\n16\n00:06:05,305 --> 00:06:27,218\n大法官的解釋或判決基本上是在補充立法的不足但是大法官一旦透過原則性、補充性各方面的解釋以後還是最後希望透過立法機關定定法律依據這樣解釋的方向或判決的方向來定定法律來補足這些法律的漏洞\n\n17\n00:06:27,938 --> 00:06:48,579\n了解那接下來我想要再請教就是兒少性侵害我想這個是社會非常沉痛的一個議題喔那也是不可以忽視的一個創傷之一啦那這類的這個所謂的這個犯罪喔不僅僅是對於所謂的少年或者是兒童他們是造成長期的影響而且是長達好幾年不管是心理上或者是在精神上\n\n18\n00:06:49,099 --> 00:07:07,658\n他其實都受到這樣子的一個傷害跟不正義的一個對待了那我想這個國家其實有責任要提供給就回應這樣子的一個需求來針對這樣子的一個關於像兒上性侵害的一個司法制度上能夠來保障這個被害人在整個所有的成長的一個過程當中\n\n19\n00:07:08,468 --> 00:07:23,340\n但是我們的刑法跟民事求償的部分其實對於所謂的性侵害犯罪的追溯期限還有民法對於所謂的侵權的一個行為所設的損害的一個賠償的要求的期限\n\n20\n00:07:23,740 --> 00:07:52,296\n其實它都是有期限的但是往往在整個所有的這個期限固定的一個時間許多的兒少如果遭遇到這樣子的一個不幸的事件的時候他長期的心理的恐懼而且在遭受所謂的權力不對等的一個狀況之下多重的壓力之下其實往往都沒有辦法在期效就是在期限當中能夠主張自己的一個權利這個是我們看到的一個現狀那我想陳教授\n\n21\n00:07:54,009 --> 00:08:14,572\n這個性侵害其實對於所謂的這個兒童來說其實是非常隱晦而且是非常深層的一個傷害那對於少年或者是對於我們的兒童那在整個所有的壓力權力不對等或者是他無法在法律規定的時間當中他去提起所謂的訴訟其實是不是也同樣的忽略了憲法所保障的身體自主\n\n22\n00:08:14,972 --> 00:08:26,356\n跟人格尊嚴還有他自己本身的救濟權那您認為在某種特定的情況之下對於所謂的性侵害的被害人他設了這樣子的一個絕對的時效有沒有構成違憲的問題\n\n23\n00:08:27,913 --> 00:08:40,109\n報告委員剛才陳昱臻委員有在提問有關死刑的問題本來要補充回答一個問題在這邊是否容許我一起補充這段時間大家都針對有關死刑的問題的討論但是都沒有針對\n\n24\n00:08:45,456 --> 00:09:00,400\n我們說活著更痛苦也就是說被害家屬的傷痛身心靈的傷痛的一個照顧這是國家很重要的一個義務一樣的情形受性侵的婦女或者是兒童\n\n25\n00:09:01,140 --> 00:09:23,803\n這個部分呢基本上他們的整個身心靈的創痛跟照顧國家在這裡是非常不足的特別是未來如果剛才講到有關有這個期限的問題起訴期限的問題這些內容上面呢基本上會可能會面臨一個夢魘就是說未來還可能會再遇到相關的這樣的一個\n\n26\n00:09:25,304 --> 00:09:44,658\n個人或者一個情形那是不是國家在這邊應該要更進一步的去做相關的配套措施跟補救措施那不過這是大院的權責基本上我是尊重大院在這方面只是希望能夠大院在這方面能夠更積極的來做這方面的一個補助\n\n27\n00:09:45,376 --> 00:10:11,117\n我剛剛講的其實性侵害的對象其實是兒少我講的是兒少的部分在他們真的長大能夠面對這些事情或是在權力稍微能夠對等的時候他來提出這樣子的一個為自己權益來做一個保障我剛剛的問題您可能還沒有回答就是對於所謂的性侵害的被害人這個所設的不管是刑法也好或者是民法也好這個所設的這個所謂的這個有效的期限是不是構成違憲\n\n28\n00:10:13,399 --> 00:10:31,548\n我認為這個可能我想以目前的狀況當下的現實狀況來講可能會有違憲之餘那是否真的有違憲因為基本上司法還是要看到事實證據跟相關法規的部分那法規的規定如何才能夠\n\n29\n00:10:32,188 --> 00:11:00,214\n那如果這被害人他主張在刑法跟民法的時效當中這個制度其實他的經驗其實這個部分我們的解釋是違憲的那您認為大法官是不是可以透過所謂的釋憲給予更彈性的一個法律解釋基本上大法官可以在立法者還未進行這個立法漏洞的一個填補過程當中來可以填補這樣子一個漏洞但是最後還是要尊重大院有關立法將大法官所提出的相關的原則\n\n30\n00:11:01,374 --> 00:11:18,702\n來透過具體的法律更明確的予以規範我想現行這個求償期限的一個設計其實往往都忽略了這些兒少性侵害的被害人他們的一些特殊性那另外他就是他們能夠自主求償的一個能力的一個限制其實反而造成了實質上的一個侵害這個你同意嗎同意\n\n31\n00:11:20,700 --> 00:11:35,416\n接下來也是很多在校園當中我想這個最近大家也都一直不斷的在討論就是老師的權益那關於所謂的校士會議的一些爭議那我想您自己本身也是教授\n\n32\n00:11:36,016 --> 00:11:51,416\n那也在校園當中其實也教書那我想呢這個近期在教育的現場出現的一些狀況特別是講到校事會議的一個設置跟運作當然也引起了很多的教師們他們自己本身的一些討論那同時呢也引發了一些爭議\n\n33\n00:11:52,577 --> 00:12:12,240\n那我講的這個核心就是在於這個所謂的校事會議它作為一種所謂的調查的一個機制那其實在運作當中往往都會涉入比較主觀的人士的一個判斷甚至逾越了所謂的這個公平公正的一個界線那變成一種處分的工具或者是變成一種處分的\n\n34\n00:12:13,221 --> 00:12:35,227\n這樣子的一個手段其實反而侵害到了所謂的教師受憲法保障工作權對於所謂的程序正義落實造成了一個非常重大的一個挑戰喔那我想呢這個教師的工作權受到憲法第15條的一個保障喔但是在缺乏正式的行政處分跟程序還有法律依據的時候學校到底有沒有這個權利用所謂的調查會議的名義\n\n35\n00:12:37,748 --> 00:13:04,841\n針對所謂的教師來產生這樣子的一個調查啟動的一個方式會對他們的一個工作權益會不會造成一個比較不利的影響報告委員這是有關教育專業的部分基本上呢必須要由教育學者專家來針對這個部分來做探討那至於當然就法律人來講基本上整個做出任何的調查程序等等都必須符合正當法律程序符合比例原則\n\n36\n00:13:05,501 --> 00:13:20,442\n透明公開原則等等這些的一個程序的規範所以說在這種情形之下學校的調查程序如果能夠最好能夠是在法律或法律授權的辦法裡面去明定那依據這樣的程序\n\n37\n00:13:20,922 --> 00:13:39,213\n其次呢這個調查程序可能必須要有不同的背景這方面專業背景的參與包括教育學者老師本身以及法律專家等等這些才能夠如果進行這樣調查程序才能夠符合所謂的我們的公平的原則\n\n38\n00:13:39,932 --> 00:13:58,351\n那就您這個法律人的一個角度你怎麼樣來界定這個內部事務的調查跟對人事權的實質的處分這個範圍來做這樣子的一個分界校事會議到底有沒有辦法可以提供所謂的申辯跟救濟那如果沒有這個是不是已經違反了這個當法律程序的一個原則\n\n39\n00:13:59,312 --> 00:14:26,122\n如果沒有法律授權或法律規定的話基本上是不可以做這樣對教師工作權各方面的一個限制的這個部分那這個部分因為本身不是在教育法領域裡面所以我們只能從憲法的一個第八條人身自由的正當法律程序以及相關的行政程序來說明這個部分不過還是要強調一點最重要還是要法律的規定跟法律的授權才可以進行這樣的調查程序\n\n40\n00:14:26,544 --> 00:14:47,053\n因為教育自治其實是憲法重要的一個原則所謂的這個教育自治但如果校內的制度其實侵犯到了老師基本的權益您認為國家要不要介入那大法官是不是應該可以要求調查程序正義在憲法的層次上有一個比較明顯的一個規範明確的一個規範你怎麼樣來看這個所謂的憲政層次的一個張力\n\n41\n00:14:53,233 --> 00:15:19,046\n我贊成必須要有正如剛才講的必須如果現在目前的規定沒有符合法律保留法律授權以及相關的正當法律程序等等這些的話我想這些都必須要透過立法者那如果立法者沒有做的話基本上大法官如果有到釋憲有這種狀況的話原則上應該在這裡可以做補充性的來填補以保障老師的工作權好\n\n42\n00:15:20,270 --> 00:15:42,740\n那最後一個部分我想請教的就是說我知道陳教授這個過去其實參與不少所謂的這個轉型正義的一個座談那您認為這個轉型正義是法律政治還是憲法層次的一個問題那我想大家都知道其實轉型正義其實不是為了要撕裂我們的社會而是要讓我們歷史的傷痕不再重演\n\n43\n00:15:43,140 --> 00:16:08,960\n那唯有面對過去的整個不公不義還原真相那另外還有平反受害者我們才能夠真正建立人民對於國家體制的一個信任讓憲政民主的一個制度它有一個穩固的一個根基這是其實轉型正義的最重要的一個目的那我想請教就是陳教授您是否認為這個轉型正義是屬於憲法當中它雖然未明文\n\n44\n00:16:09,400 --> 00:16:36,695\n但卻具有所謂的憲法未接的國家義務報告委員我本身留學德國對於納粹時期相關的不正義的事項我們都非常的這樣子深刻的理解所以轉型正義一開始應該是從二次世界大戰開始之後各國所面臨的後來因為東歐的整個共產國家崩潰以後\n\n45\n00:16:37,555 --> 00:17:03,752\n所形成的相關的這些內容包括還有南非等等這些這是一個憲法層次或者是法哲學層次的法正義理念的實踐那正如委員剛才所垂詢的基本上這並不是一種報復而是讓未來的人民能夠理解這一段的歷史未來不應該再重蹈覆轍來維護整個自由民主的憲政秩序\n\n46\n00:17:04,417 --> 00:17:32,318\n因為在台灣也有白色恐怖也有228事件其實到現在其實受害者的心靈或者是受害者他們自己本身的家屬其實還沒有獲得這樣子的一個平反的機會喔所以其實轉型正義是非常重要那也就是說這個雖然憲法沒有明文的規定我們的轉型正義啦應該可以這麼講但是在國家的憲法上面其實我們應該要有義務去積極的揭露真相補償受害者跟追\n\n47\n00:17:33,118 --> 00:17:57,706\n追究加害者的一个义务这你同意吗是我赞成那大法官怎么看如果我们透过视线来要求国家对于所谓的历史的不义的行为来负起具体的一个责任请问如果将来您是大法官您怎么看待这样子的一个题目那另外就是请教您怎么看所谓的转促条例的程序跟成效是\n\n48\n00:17:58,486 --> 00:18:27,562\n報告委員基本上剛才盧委員所推詢我已經跟各委員報告了基本上轉型正義是要讓後來的人民能夠了解以前有這樣的一個不正義的狀況造成國家甚至民主的一個慘痛的一個過程所以說大法官在這個部分上基本上從我們的憲法的法理等等為了維護法正義等等這些內容上\n\n49\n00:18:28,002 --> 00:18:55,220\n基本上是可以得出這樣的一個結果不過這個問題基本最重要還是最前端的由立法者跟行政權對府衛我記得歷任的政府不管任何政黨執政都針對這件事情有去做過非常多的補償救濟等等這些內容但是我是認為還是不足夠的所以說未來的政府應該繼續朝這個方向繼續的努力除非有不足的地方\n\n50\n00:18:55,840 --> 00:19:11,057\n或者是因為人民在這方面有更進一步的受到侵害這種狀況之下有提起憲法訴訟細數的時候大法官當然要對這個維護法正義的理念來做出補充的說明\n\n51\n00:19:11,778 --> 00:19:27,178\n當然我們其實也聽到了有一些不同的聲音我假設這個問題只是假設如果未來有聲音要主張廢除所謂的轉促條例您認不認為這可以用違憲審查是可以介入的\n\n52\n00:19:29,553 --> 00:19:44,172\n轉述條例這個部分呢基本上是立法院通過而且現在目前在實施未來如果是不是要看這個條例本身他的立法的目的是否已經完成如果認為違憲審查可以介入嗎\n\n53\n00:19:46,313 --> 00:20:03,558\n您認為報告委員因為我沒有完整的去看到這個內容我沒有辦法去看違憲審查的譬如說他侵害到人權或者是他有違反的相關的這個問題我實在是很抱歉我沒有看到具體我也不希望非常直覺跟委員\n\n54\n00:20:06,199 --> 00:20:17,002\n我們提供給您一個方向如果將來您是大法官的話其實這個有可能會碰得到的一些狀況跟問題那也提供給陳教授做一個參考是好謝謝謝謝郭委員\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n12977\t16100\t有請陳教授請備題目人答詢委員好陳教授早安我想憲法法庭從去年到現在一直都是處於停擺的一個狀態\n31943\t43864\t那憲法法庭大部分應該是95%以上應該申請釋憲的都是人民您對這樣子的一個狀況目前憲法法庭癱瘓當中您有什麼看法\n45066\t62606\t報告委員因為我們憲法訴訟法有修改當然尊重大院的職權但是各國有關憲法訴訟法相關的規定都有原則跟例外或者我們說非常態的一個規定但是這次憲法訴訟法\n63847\t91012\t這個部分好像並沒有看到所以才會造成這樣子對人民權利保障上面可能會有所中斷不過這是大院的職權尊重大院的職權我們當然也很遺憾看到這樣子的結果因為有很多人民申請的釋憲案到目前為止還是停放在那個地方沒有被解決我想訴諸憲法法庭申請釋憲其實是人民最後的保護自己的一個手段\n91411\t119683\t但我們真的並不樂見這樣的一個結果好那我想呢請教這個請教說這個前一陣子我們看到這個新北屠城發生了嚴重的一個家暴的一個命案喔那我想這件事情應該是也讓很多的社會大眾開始議論紛紛喔那我想這名男子呢這個行兇的這個所謂的加害者他明明已經被核發了所謂的保護令但是仍然在開庭之後他還是\n121224\t141536\t對這個兩名的女性來進行施暴甚至直接造成兩名女性的一個死亡那我想這個案件當中其實我們也看到家庭暴力防治法實務在運作當中可能也出現了一些所謂的這個法律明定就算他違反了保護令他可以裁定羈押但是在實務上\n143168\t170550\t我們看到法官對於所謂的羈押的一個裁定的比例其實還是偏低那導致這個被這個保護令對於所謂的這個加害人的強制力並不足那在您認為這現行的羈押一個制度在比例原則之下是不是能夠足以保護受害者那如果在制度上他是無法防範明知有暴力風險的人再次的加害這是不是真的構成了對人身安全保障的憲法失靈的一個狀態\n171611\t198390\t那我想就請教您如果將來您擔任所謂的大法官那會如何從憲法的觀點來審視這類的一個制度的漏洞報告委員憲法秩序多元憲法秩序之下要保障人權從未出生的胎兒一直到成年甚至到老年年長者以及甚至對死亡者的整體的一個保護\n199230\t218658\t那這個保護的整個過程以及整個的制度的配套這都是國家應該負起的一個保護義務那在這個保護義務之下呢會透過行政跟立法兩者之間的協力來制定相關的政策以及法規以及執行\n219258\t241862\t那在這些內容當中因為個人曾經擔任過非常多的法規委員那法規委員會的委員裡面對於各種修法的規定跟建議在這個過程當中我深深體會到土法不足以自行因為很多的法律規定都是很抽象的\n242422\t271203\t必須靠實務的整個發展來加以配合當然也要靠實務的所謂我們的公務員來能夠有同理心來一起來補充這些法律的不足我們進一步來請教一下這個陳教授就是比例原則啦我們講這個比例原則是不是可以在這一類的高風險的情境之下讓位是讓位給所謂的這個被害人保護優先這個部分如果將來您是大法官您的見解\n273411\t291730\t事實上比例原則上面因為這種現實的狀況出現了非常多在修法方面基本上要透過相關的配套措施更加嚴格的來針對相關的一些漏洞來加以填補基本上這些漏洞的填補\n293311\t316385\t還是並沒有違反比例原則所以基本上在這個部分我是贊成的贊成在這個部分要更針對實務上的這些實例來補充法律的漏洞剛剛講到這個所謂的實例其實我們看到有很多的所謂的家暴的事件當中其實都有兒童涉及那就您的觀點你怎麼看待兒童最佳利益原則在憲法當中是不是具有實質的一個據書裡\n319952\t344686\t報告委員兒童的利益這個部分呢是憲法保障的重要的法益特別在我們台灣少子化的情形之下兒童的保障特別兒童是一個毫無反抗能力或完全沒有辦法自衛能力的這樣子的一個基本權主體所以在這裡保障上面應該要更加的強化這方面的保障那主管機關\n345947\t364408\t應該要有這方面的一個更強化更積極的作為那如果未來將來有人申請釋憲就類似的這樣子的一個案件他申請的釋憲你認為這個羈押制度對於所謂的被害人保護不足而構成所謂的違憲您認為大法官有沒有機會可以有介入的空間\n365305\t387218\t大法官的解釋或判決基本上是在補充立法的不足但是大法官一旦透過原則性、補充性各方面的解釋以後還是最後希望透過立法機關定定法律依據這樣解釋的方向或判決的方向來定定法律來補足這些法律的漏洞\n387938\t408579\t了解那接下來我想要再請教就是兒少性侵害我想這個是社會非常沉痛的一個議題喔那也是不可以忽視的一個創傷之一啦那這類的這個所謂的這個犯罪喔不僅僅是對於所謂的少年或者是兒童他們是造成長期的影響而且是長達好幾年不管是心理上或者是在精神上\n409099\t427658\t他其實都受到這樣子的一個傷害跟不正義的一個對待了那我想這個國家其實有責任要提供給就回應這樣子的一個需求來針對這樣子的一個關於像兒上性侵害的一個司法制度上能夠來保障這個被害人在整個所有的成長的一個過程當中\n428468\t443340\t但是我們的刑法跟民事求償的部分其實對於所謂的性侵害犯罪的追溯期限還有民法對於所謂的侵權的一個行為所設的損害的一個賠償的要求的期限\n443740\t472296\t其實它都是有期限的但是往往在整個所有的這個期限固定的一個時間許多的兒少如果遭遇到這樣子的一個不幸的事件的時候他長期的心理的恐懼而且在遭受所謂的權力不對等的一個狀況之下多重的壓力之下其實往往都沒有辦法在期效就是在期限當中能夠主張自己的一個權利這個是我們看到的一個現狀那我想陳教授\n474009\t494572\t這個性侵害其實對於所謂的這個兒童來說其實是非常隱晦而且是非常深層的一個傷害那對於少年或者是對於我們的兒童那在整個所有的壓力權力不對等或者是他無法在法律規定的時間當中他去提起所謂的訴訟其實是不是也同樣的忽略了憲法所保障的身體自主\n494972\t506356\t跟人格尊嚴還有他自己本身的救濟權那您認為在某種特定的情況之下對於所謂的性侵害的被害人他設了這樣子的一個絕對的時效有沒有構成違憲的問題\n507913\t520109\t報告委員剛才陳昱臻委員有在提問有關死刑的問題本來要補充回答一個問題在這邊是否容許我一起補充這段時間大家都針對有關死刑的問題的討論但是都沒有針對\n525456\t540400\t我們說活著更痛苦也就是說被害家屬的傷痛身心靈的傷痛的一個照顧這是國家很重要的一個義務一樣的情形受性侵的婦女或者是兒童\n541140\t563803\t這個部分呢基本上他們的整個身心靈的創痛跟照顧國家在這裡是非常不足的特別是未來如果剛才講到有關有這個期限的問題起訴期限的問題這些內容上面呢基本上會可能會面臨一個夢魘就是說未來還可能會再遇到相關的這樣的一個\n565304\t584658\t個人或者一個情形那是不是國家在這邊應該要更進一步的去做相關的配套措施跟補救措施那不過這是大院的權責基本上我是尊重大院在這方面只是希望能夠大院在這方面能夠更積極的來做這方面的一個補助\n585376\t611117\t我剛剛講的其實性侵害的對象其實是兒少我講的是兒少的部分在他們真的長大能夠面對這些事情或是在權力稍微能夠對等的時候他來提出這樣子的一個為自己權益來做一個保障我剛剛的問題您可能還沒有回答就是對於所謂的性侵害的被害人這個所設的不管是刑法也好或者是民法也好這個所設的這個所謂的這個有效的期限是不是構成違憲\n613399\t631548\t我認為這個可能我想以目前的狀況當下的現實狀況來講可能會有違憲之餘那是否真的有違憲因為基本上司法還是要看到事實證據跟相關法規的部分那法規的規定如何才能夠\n632188\t660214\t那如果這被害人他主張在刑法跟民法的時效當中這個制度其實他的經驗其實這個部分我們的解釋是違憲的那您認為大法官是不是可以透過所謂的釋憲給予更彈性的一個法律解釋基本上大法官可以在立法者還未進行這個立法漏洞的一個填補過程當中來可以填補這樣子一個漏洞但是最後還是要尊重大院有關立法將大法官所提出的相關的原則\n661374\t678702\t來透過具體的法律更明確的予以規範我想現行這個求償期限的一個設計其實往往都忽略了這些兒少性侵害的被害人他們的一些特殊性那另外他就是他們能夠自主求償的一個能力的一個限制其實反而造成了實質上的一個侵害這個你同意嗎同意\n680700\t695416\t接下來也是很多在校園當中我想這個最近大家也都一直不斷的在討論就是老師的權益那關於所謂的校士會議的一些爭議那我想您自己本身也是教授\n696016\t711416\t那也在校園當中其實也教書那我想呢這個近期在教育的現場出現的一些狀況特別是講到校事會議的一個設置跟運作當然也引起了很多的教師們他們自己本身的一些討論那同時呢也引發了一些爭議\n712577\t732240\t那我講的這個核心就是在於這個所謂的校事會議它作為一種所謂的調查的一個機制那其實在運作當中往往都會涉入比較主觀的人士的一個判斷甚至逾越了所謂的這個公平公正的一個界線那變成一種處分的工具或者是變成一種處分的\n733221\t755227\t這樣子的一個手段其實反而侵害到了所謂的教師受憲法保障工作權對於所謂的程序正義落實造成了一個非常重大的一個挑戰喔那我想呢這個教師的工作權受到憲法第15條的一個保障喔但是在缺乏正式的行政處分跟程序還有法律依據的時候學校到底有沒有這個權利用所謂的調查會議的名義\n757748\t784841\t針對所謂的教師來產生這樣子的一個調查啟動的一個方式會對他們的一個工作權益會不會造成一個比較不利的影響報告委員這是有關教育專業的部分基本上呢必須要由教育學者專家來針對這個部分來做探討那至於當然就法律人來講基本上整個做出任何的調查程序等等都必須符合正當法律程序符合比例原則\n785501\t800442\t透明公開原則等等這些的一個程序的規範所以說在這種情形之下學校的調查程序如果能夠最好能夠是在法律或法律授權的辦法裡面去明定那依據這樣的程序\n800922\t819213\t其次呢這個調查程序可能必須要有不同的背景這方面專業背景的參與包括教育學者老師本身以及法律專家等等這些才能夠如果進行這樣調查程序才能夠符合所謂的我們的公平的原則\n819932\t838351\t那就您這個法律人的一個角度你怎麼樣來界定這個內部事務的調查跟對人事權的實質的處分這個範圍來做這樣子的一個分界校事會議到底有沒有辦法可以提供所謂的申辯跟救濟那如果沒有這個是不是已經違反了這個當法律程序的一個原則\n839312\t866122\t如果沒有法律授權或法律規定的話基本上是不可以做這樣對教師工作權各方面的一個限制的這個部分那這個部分因為本身不是在教育法領域裡面所以我們只能從憲法的一個第八條人身自由的正當法律程序以及相關的行政程序來說明這個部分不過還是要強調一點最重要還是要法律的規定跟法律的授權才可以進行這樣的調查程序\n866544\t887053\t因為教育自治其實是憲法重要的一個原則所謂的這個教育自治但如果校內的制度其實侵犯到了老師基本的權益您認為國家要不要介入那大法官是不是應該可以要求調查程序正義在憲法的層次上有一個比較明顯的一個規範明確的一個規範你怎麼樣來看這個所謂的憲政層次的一個張力\n893233\t919046\t我贊成必須要有正如剛才講的必須如果現在目前的規定沒有符合法律保留法律授權以及相關的正當法律程序等等這些的話我想這些都必須要透過立法者那如果立法者沒有做的話基本上大法官如果有到釋憲有這種狀況的話原則上應該在這裡可以做補充性的來填補以保障老師的工作權好\n920270\t942740\t那最後一個部分我想請教的就是說我知道陳教授這個過去其實參與不少所謂的這個轉型正義的一個座談那您認為這個轉型正義是法律政治還是憲法層次的一個問題那我想大家都知道其實轉型正義其實不是為了要撕裂我們的社會而是要讓我們歷史的傷痕不再重演\n943140\t968960\t那唯有面對過去的整個不公不義還原真相那另外還有平反受害者我們才能夠真正建立人民對於國家體制的一個信任讓憲政民主的一個制度它有一個穩固的一個根基這是其實轉型正義的最重要的一個目的那我想請教就是陳教授您是否認為這個轉型正義是屬於憲法當中它雖然未明文\n969400\t996695\t但卻具有所謂的憲法未接的國家義務報告委員我本身留學德國對於納粹時期相關的不正義的事項我們都非常的這樣子深刻的理解所以轉型正義一開始應該是從二次世界大戰開始之後各國所面臨的後來因為東歐的整個共產國家崩潰以後\n997555\t1023752\t所形成的相關的這些內容包括還有南非等等這些這是一個憲法層次或者是法哲學層次的法正義理念的實踐那正如委員剛才所垂詢的基本上這並不是一種報復而是讓未來的人民能夠理解這一段的歷史未來不應該再重蹈覆轍來維護整個自由民主的憲政秩序\n1024417\t1052318\t因為在台灣也有白色恐怖也有228事件其實到現在其實受害者的心靈或者是受害者他們自己本身的家屬其實還沒有獲得這樣子的一個平反的機會喔所以其實轉型正義是非常重要那也就是說這個雖然憲法沒有明文的規定我們的轉型正義啦應該可以這麼講但是在國家的憲法上面其實我們應該要有義務去積極的揭露真相補償受害者跟追\n1053118\t1077706\t追究加害者的一个义务 这你同意吗是 我赞成那大法官怎么看如果我们透过视线来要求国家对于所谓的历史的不义的行为来负起具体的一个责任请问如果将来您是大法官您怎么看待这样子的一个题目那另外就是请教您怎么看所谓的转促条例的程序跟成效是\n1078486\t1107562\t報告委員 基本上剛才盧委員所推詢我已經跟各委員報告了基本上轉型正義是要讓後來的人民能夠了解以前有這樣的一個不正義的狀況造成國家甚至民主的一個慘痛的一個過程所以說大法官在這個部分上基本上從我們的憲法的法理等等為了維護法正義等等這些內容上\n1108002\t1135220\t基本上是可以得出這樣的一個結果不過這個問題基本最重要還是最前端的由立法者跟行政權對府衛我記得歷任的政府不管任何政黨執政都針對這件事情有去做過非常多的補償救濟等等這些內容但是我是認為還是不足夠的所以說未來的政府應該繼續朝這個方向繼續的努力除非有不足的地方\n1135840\t1151057\t或者是因為人民在這方面有更進一步的受到侵害這種狀況之下有提起憲法訴訟細數的時候大法官當然要對這個維護法正義的理念來做出補充的說明\n1151778\t1167178\t當然我們其實也聽到了有一些不同的聲音我假設這個問題只是假設如果未來有聲音要主張廢除所謂的轉促條例您認不認為這可以用違憲審查是可以介入的\n1169553\t1184172\t轉述條例這個部分呢基本上是立法院通過而且現在目前在實施未來如果是不是要看這個條例本身他的立法的目的是否已經完成如果認為 違憲審查可以介入嗎\n1186313\t1203558\t您認為報告委員因為我沒有完整的去看到這個內容我沒有辦法去看違憲審查的譬如說他侵害到人權或者是他有違反的相關的這個問題我實在是很抱歉我沒有看到具體我也不希望非常直覺跟委員\n1206199\t1217002\t我們提供給您一個方向如果將來您是大法官的話其實這個有可能會碰得到的一些狀況跟問題那也提供給陳教授做一個參考是好謝謝謝謝郭委員\n","txt":"有請陳教授請備題目人答詢委員好陳教授早安我想憲法法庭從去年到現在一直都是處於停擺的一個狀態\n那憲法法庭大部分應該是95%以上應該申請釋憲的都是人民您對這樣子的一個狀況目前憲法法庭癱瘓當中您有什麼看法\n報告委員因為我們憲法訴訟法有修改當然尊重大院的職權但是各國有關憲法訴訟法相關的規定都有原則跟例外或者我們說非常態的一個規定但是這次憲法訴訟法\n這個部分好像並沒有看到所以才會造成這樣子對人民權利保障上面可能會有所中斷不過這是大院的職權尊重大院的職權我們當然也很遺憾看到這樣子的結果因為有很多人民申請的釋憲案到目前為止還是停放在那個地方沒有被解決我想訴諸憲法法庭申請釋憲其實是人民最後的保護自己的一個手段\n但我們真的並不樂見這樣的一個結果好那我想呢請教這個請教說這個前一陣子我們看到這個新北屠城發生了嚴重的一個家暴的一個命案喔那我想這件事情應該是也讓很多的社會大眾開始議論紛紛喔那我想這名男子呢這個行兇的這個所謂的加害者他明明已經被核發了所謂的保護令但是仍然在開庭之後他還是\n對這個兩名的女性來進行施暴甚至直接造成兩名女性的一個死亡那我想這個案件當中其實我們也看到家庭暴力防治法實務在運作當中可能也出現了一些所謂的這個法律明定就算他違反了保護令他可以裁定羈押但是在實務上\n我們看到法官對於所謂的羈押的一個裁定的比例其實還是偏低那導致這個被這個保護令對於所謂的這個加害人的強制力並不足那在您認為這現行的羈押一個制度在比例原則之下是不是能夠足以保護受害者那如果在制度上他是無法防範明知有暴力風險的人再次的加害這是不是真的構成了對人身安全保障的憲法失靈的一個狀態\n那我想就請教您如果將來您擔任所謂的大法官那會如何從憲法的觀點來審視這類的一個制度的漏洞報告委員憲法秩序多元憲法秩序之下要保障人權從未出生的胎兒一直到成年甚至到老年年長者以及甚至對死亡者的整體的一個保護\n那這個保護的整個過程以及整個的制度的配套這都是國家應該負起的一個保護義務那在這個保護義務之下呢會透過行政跟立法兩者之間的協力來制定相關的政策以及法規以及執行\n那在這些內容當中因為個人曾經擔任過非常多的法規委員那法規委員會的委員裡面對於各種修法的規定跟建議在這個過程當中我深深體會到土法不足以自行因為很多的法律規定都是很抽象的\n必須靠實務的整個發展來加以配合當然也要靠實務的所謂我們的公務員來能夠有同理心來一起來補充這些法律的不足我們進一步來請教一下這個陳教授就是比例原則啦我們講這個比例原則是不是可以在這一類的高風險的情境之下讓位是讓位給所謂的這個被害人保護優先這個部分如果將來您是大法官您的見解\n事實上比例原則上面因為這種現實的狀況出現了非常多在修法方面基本上要透過相關的配套措施更加嚴格的來針對相關的一些漏洞來加以填補基本上這些漏洞的填補\n還是並沒有違反比例原則所以基本上在這個部分我是贊成的贊成在這個部分要更針對實務上的這些實例來補充法律的漏洞剛剛講到這個所謂的實例其實我們看到有很多的所謂的家暴的事件當中其實都有兒童涉及那就您的觀點你怎麼看待兒童最佳利益原則在憲法當中是不是具有實質的一個據書裡\n報告委員兒童的利益這個部分呢是憲法保障的重要的法益特別在我們台灣少子化的情形之下兒童的保障特別兒童是一個毫無反抗能力或完全沒有辦法自衛能力的這樣子的一個基本權主體所以在這裡保障上面應該要更加的強化這方面的保障那主管機關\n應該要有這方面的一個更強化更積極的作為那如果未來將來有人申請釋憲就類似的這樣子的一個案件他申請的釋憲你認為這個羈押制度對於所謂的被害人保護不足而構成所謂的違憲您認為大法官有沒有機會可以有介入的空間\n大法官的解釋或判決基本上是在補充立法的不足但是大法官一旦透過原則性、補充性各方面的解釋以後還是最後希望透過立法機關定定法律依據這樣解釋的方向或判決的方向來定定法律來補足這些法律的漏洞\n了解那接下來我想要再請教就是兒少性侵害我想這個是社會非常沉痛的一個議題喔那也是不可以忽視的一個創傷之一啦那這類的這個所謂的這個犯罪喔不僅僅是對於所謂的少年或者是兒童他們是造成長期的影響而且是長達好幾年不管是心理上或者是在精神上\n他其實都受到這樣子的一個傷害跟不正義的一個對待了那我想這個國家其實有責任要提供給就回應這樣子的一個需求來針對這樣子的一個關於像兒上性侵害的一個司法制度上能夠來保障這個被害人在整個所有的成長的一個過程當中\n但是我們的刑法跟民事求償的部分其實對於所謂的性侵害犯罪的追溯期限還有民法對於所謂的侵權的一個行為所設的損害的一個賠償的要求的期限\n其實它都是有期限的但是往往在整個所有的這個期限固定的一個時間許多的兒少如果遭遇到這樣子的一個不幸的事件的時候他長期的心理的恐懼而且在遭受所謂的權力不對等的一個狀況之下多重的壓力之下其實往往都沒有辦法在期效就是在期限當中能夠主張自己的一個權利這個是我們看到的一個現狀那我想陳教授\n這個性侵害其實對於所謂的這個兒童來說其實是非常隱晦而且是非常深層的一個傷害那對於少年或者是對於我們的兒童那在整個所有的壓力權力不對等或者是他無法在法律規定的時間當中他去提起所謂的訴訟其實是不是也同樣的忽略了憲法所保障的身體自主\n跟人格尊嚴還有他自己本身的救濟權那您認為在某種特定的情況之下對於所謂的性侵害的被害人他設了這樣子的一個絕對的時效有沒有構成違憲的問題\n報告委員剛才陳昱臻委員有在提問有關死刑的問題本來要補充回答一個問題在這邊是否容許我一起補充這段時間大家都針對有關死刑的問題的討論但是都沒有針對\n我們說活著更痛苦也就是說被害家屬的傷痛身心靈的傷痛的一個照顧這是國家很重要的一個義務一樣的情形受性侵的婦女或者是兒童\n這個部分呢基本上他們的整個身心靈的創痛跟照顧國家在這裡是非常不足的特別是未來如果剛才講到有關有這個期限的問題起訴期限的問題這些內容上面呢基本上會可能會面臨一個夢魘就是說未來還可能會再遇到相關的這樣的一個\n個人或者一個情形那是不是國家在這邊應該要更進一步的去做相關的配套措施跟補救措施那不過這是大院的權責基本上我是尊重大院在這方面只是希望能夠大院在這方面能夠更積極的來做這方面的一個補助\n我剛剛講的其實性侵害的對象其實是兒少我講的是兒少的部分在他們真的長大能夠面對這些事情或是在權力稍微能夠對等的時候他來提出這樣子的一個為自己權益來做一個保障我剛剛的問題您可能還沒有回答就是對於所謂的性侵害的被害人這個所設的不管是刑法也好或者是民法也好這個所設的這個所謂的這個有效的期限是不是構成違憲\n我認為這個可能我想以目前的狀況當下的現實狀況來講可能會有違憲之餘那是否真的有違憲因為基本上司法還是要看到事實證據跟相關法規的部分那法規的規定如何才能夠\n那如果這被害人他主張在刑法跟民法的時效當中這個制度其實他的經驗其實這個部分我們的解釋是違憲的那您認為大法官是不是可以透過所謂的釋憲給予更彈性的一個法律解釋基本上大法官可以在立法者還未進行這個立法漏洞的一個填補過程當中來可以填補這樣子一個漏洞但是最後還是要尊重大院有關立法將大法官所提出的相關的原則\n來透過具體的法律更明確的予以規範我想現行這個求償期限的一個設計其實往往都忽略了這些兒少性侵害的被害人他們的一些特殊性那另外他就是他們能夠自主求償的一個能力的一個限制其實反而造成了實質上的一個侵害這個你同意嗎同意\n接下來也是很多在校園當中我想這個最近大家也都一直不斷的在討論就是老師的權益那關於所謂的校士會議的一些爭議那我想您自己本身也是教授\n那也在校園當中其實也教書那我想呢這個近期在教育的現場出現的一些狀況特別是講到校事會議的一個設置跟運作當然也引起了很多的教師們他們自己本身的一些討論那同時呢也引發了一些爭議\n那我講的這個核心就是在於這個所謂的校事會議它作為一種所謂的調查的一個機制那其實在運作當中往往都會涉入比較主觀的人士的一個判斷甚至逾越了所謂的這個公平公正的一個界線那變成一種處分的工具或者是變成一種處分的\n這樣子的一個手段其實反而侵害到了所謂的教師受憲法保障工作權對於所謂的程序正義落實造成了一個非常重大的一個挑戰喔那我想呢這個教師的工作權受到憲法第15條的一個保障喔但是在缺乏正式的行政處分跟程序還有法律依據的時候學校到底有沒有這個權利用所謂的調查會議的名義\n針對所謂的教師來產生這樣子的一個調查啟動的一個方式會對他們的一個工作權益會不會造成一個比較不利的影響報告委員這是有關教育專業的部分基本上呢必須要由教育學者專家來針對這個部分來做探討那至於當然就法律人來講基本上整個做出任何的調查程序等等都必須符合正當法律程序符合比例原則\n透明公開原則等等這些的一個程序的規範所以說在這種情形之下學校的調查程序如果能夠最好能夠是在法律或法律授權的辦法裡面去明定那依據這樣的程序\n其次呢這個調查程序可能必須要有不同的背景這方面專業背景的參與包括教育學者老師本身以及法律專家等等這些才能夠如果進行這樣調查程序才能夠符合所謂的我們的公平的原則\n那就您這個法律人的一個角度你怎麼樣來界定這個內部事務的調查跟對人事權的實質的處分這個範圍來做這樣子的一個分界校事會議到底有沒有辦法可以提供所謂的申辯跟救濟那如果沒有這個是不是已經違反了這個當法律程序的一個原則\n如果沒有法律授權或法律規定的話基本上是不可以做這樣對教師工作權各方面的一個限制的這個部分那這個部分因為本身不是在教育法領域裡面所以我們只能從憲法的一個第八條人身自由的正當法律程序以及相關的行政程序來說明這個部分不過還是要強調一點最重要還是要法律的規定跟法律的授權才可以進行這樣的調查程序\n因為教育自治其實是憲法重要的一個原則所謂的這個教育自治但如果校內的制度其實侵犯到了老師基本的權益您認為國家要不要介入那大法官是不是應該可以要求調查程序正義在憲法的層次上有一個比較明顯的一個規範明確的一個規範你怎麼樣來看這個所謂的憲政層次的一個張力\n我贊成必須要有正如剛才講的必須如果現在目前的規定沒有符合法律保留法律授權以及相關的正當法律程序等等這些的話我想這些都必須要透過立法者那如果立法者沒有做的話基本上大法官如果有到釋憲有這種狀況的話原則上應該在這裡可以做補充性的來填補以保障老師的工作權好\n那最後一個部分我想請教的就是說我知道陳教授這個過去其實參與不少所謂的這個轉型正義的一個座談那您認為這個轉型正義是法律政治還是憲法層次的一個問題那我想大家都知道其實轉型正義其實不是為了要撕裂我們的社會而是要讓我們歷史的傷痕不再重演\n那唯有面對過去的整個不公不義還原真相那另外還有平反受害者我們才能夠真正建立人民對於國家體制的一個信任讓憲政民主的一個制度它有一個穩固的一個根基這是其實轉型正義的最重要的一個目的那我想請教就是陳教授您是否認為這個轉型正義是屬於憲法當中它雖然未明文\n但卻具有所謂的憲法未接的國家義務報告委員我本身留學德國對於納粹時期相關的不正義的事項我們都非常的這樣子深刻的理解所以轉型正義一開始應該是從二次世界大戰開始之後各國所面臨的後來因為東歐的整個共產國家崩潰以後\n所形成的相關的這些內容包括還有南非等等這些這是一個憲法層次或者是法哲學層次的法正義理念的實踐那正如委員剛才所垂詢的基本上這並不是一種報復而是讓未來的人民能夠理解這一段的歷史未來不應該再重蹈覆轍來維護整個自由民主的憲政秩序\n因為在台灣也有白色恐怖也有228事件其實到現在其實受害者的心靈或者是受害者他們自己本身的家屬其實還沒有獲得這樣子的一個平反的機會喔所以其實轉型正義是非常重要那也就是說這個雖然憲法沒有明文的規定我們的轉型正義啦應該可以這麼講但是在國家的憲法上面其實我們應該要有義務去積極的揭露真相補償受害者跟追\n追究加害者的一个义务 这你同意吗是 我赞成那大法官怎么看如果我们透过视线来要求国家对于所谓的历史的不义的行为来负起具体的一个责任请问如果将来您是大法官您怎么看待这样子的一个题目那另外就是请教您怎么看所谓的转促条例的程序跟成效是\n報告委員 基本上剛才盧委員所推詢我已經跟各委員報告了基本上轉型正義是要讓後來的人民能夠了解以前有這樣的一個不正義的狀況造成國家甚至民主的一個慘痛的一個過程所以說大法官在這個部分上基本上從我們的憲法的法理等等為了維護法正義等等這些內容上\n基本上是可以得出這樣的一個結果不過這個問題基本最重要還是最前端的由立法者跟行政權對府衛我記得歷任的政府不管任何政黨執政都針對這件事情有去做過非常多的補償救濟等等這些內容但是我是認為還是不足夠的所以說未來的政府應該繼續朝這個方向繼續的努力除非有不足的地方\n或者是因為人民在這方面有更進一步的受到侵害這種狀況之下有提起憲法訴訟細數的時候大法官當然要對這個維護法正義的理念來做出補充的說明\n當然我們其實也聽到了有一些不同的聲音我假設這個問題只是假設如果未來有聲音要主張廢除所謂的轉促條例您認不認為這可以用違憲審查是可以介入的\n轉述條例這個部分呢基本上是立法院通過而且現在目前在實施未來如果是不是要看這個條例本身他的立法的目的是否已經完成如果認為 違憲審查可以介入嗎\n您認為報告委員因為我沒有完整的去看到這個內容我沒有辦法去看違憲審查的譬如說他侵害到人權或者是他有違反的相關的這個問題我實在是很抱歉我沒有看到具體我也不希望非常直覺跟委員\n我們提供給您一個方向如果將來您是大法官的話其實這個有可能會碰得到的一些狀況跟問題那也提供給陳教授做一個參考是好謝謝謝謝郭委員\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:12.977 --> 00:16.100\n有請陳教授請備題目人答詢委員好陳教授早安我想憲法法庭從去年到現在一直都是處於停擺的一個狀態\n\n00:31.943 --> 00:43.864\n那憲法法庭大部分應該是95%以上應該申請釋憲的都是人民您對這樣子的一個狀況目前憲法法庭癱瘓當中您有什麼看法\n\n00:45.066 --> 01:02.606\n報告委員因為我們憲法訴訟法有修改當然尊重大院的職權但是各國有關憲法訴訟法相關的規定都有原則跟例外或者我們說非常態的一個規定但是這次憲法訴訟法\n\n01:03.847 --> 01:31.012\n這個部分好像並沒有看到所以才會造成這樣子對人民權利保障上面可能會有所中斷不過這是大院的職權尊重大院的職權我們當然也很遺憾看到這樣子的結果因為有很多人民申請的釋憲案到目前為止還是停放在那個地方沒有被解決我想訴諸憲法法庭申請釋憲其實是人民最後的保護自己的一個手段\n\n01:31.411 --> 01:59.683\n但我們真的並不樂見這樣的一個結果好那我想呢請教這個請教說這個前一陣子我們看到這個新北屠城發生了嚴重的一個家暴的一個命案喔那我想這件事情應該是也讓很多的社會大眾開始議論紛紛喔那我想這名男子呢這個行兇的這個所謂的加害者他明明已經被核發了所謂的保護令但是仍然在開庭之後他還是\n\n02:01.224 --> 02:21.536\n對這個兩名的女性來進行施暴甚至直接造成兩名女性的一個死亡那我想這個案件當中其實我們也看到家庭暴力防治法實務在運作當中可能也出現了一些所謂的這個法律明定就算他違反了保護令他可以裁定羈押但是在實務上\n\n02:23.168 --> 02:50.550\n我們看到法官對於所謂的羈押的一個裁定的比例其實還是偏低那導致這個被這個保護令對於所謂的這個加害人的強制力並不足那在您認為這現行的羈押一個制度在比例原則之下是不是能夠足以保護受害者那如果在制度上他是無法防範明知有暴力風險的人再次的加害這是不是真的構成了對人身安全保障的憲法失靈的一個狀態\n\n02:51.611 --> 03:18.390\n那我想就請教您如果將來您擔任所謂的大法官那會如何從憲法的觀點來審視這類的一個制度的漏洞報告委員憲法秩序多元憲法秩序之下要保障人權從未出生的胎兒一直到成年甚至到老年年長者以及甚至對死亡者的整體的一個保護\n\n03:19.230 --> 03:38.658\n那這個保護的整個過程以及整個的制度的配套這都是國家應該負起的一個保護義務那在這個保護義務之下呢會透過行政跟立法兩者之間的協力來制定相關的政策以及法規以及執行\n\n03:39.258 --> 04:01.862\n那在這些內容當中因為個人曾經擔任過非常多的法規委員那法規委員會的委員裡面對於各種修法的規定跟建議在這個過程當中我深深體會到土法不足以自行因為很多的法律規定都是很抽象的\n\n04:02.422 --> 04:31.203\n必須靠實務的整個發展來加以配合當然也要靠實務的所謂我們的公務員來能夠有同理心來一起來補充這些法律的不足我們進一步來請教一下這個陳教授就是比例原則啦我們講這個比例原則是不是可以在這一類的高風險的情境之下讓位是讓位給所謂的這個被害人保護優先這個部分如果將來您是大法官您的見解\n\n04:33.411 --> 04:51.730\n事實上比例原則上面因為這種現實的狀況出現了非常多在修法方面基本上要透過相關的配套措施更加嚴格的來針對相關的一些漏洞來加以填補基本上這些漏洞的填補\n\n04:53.311 --> 05:16.385\n還是並沒有違反比例原則所以基本上在這個部分我是贊成的贊成在這個部分要更針對實務上的這些實例來補充法律的漏洞剛剛講到這個所謂的實例其實我們看到有很多的所謂的家暴的事件當中其實都有兒童涉及那就您的觀點你怎麼看待兒童最佳利益原則在憲法當中是不是具有實質的一個據書裡\n\n05:19.952 --> 05:44.686\n報告委員兒童的利益這個部分呢是憲法保障的重要的法益特別在我們台灣少子化的情形之下兒童的保障特別兒童是一個毫無反抗能力或完全沒有辦法自衛能力的這樣子的一個基本權主體所以在這裡保障上面應該要更加的強化這方面的保障那主管機關\n\n05:45.947 --> 06:04.408\n應該要有這方面的一個更強化更積極的作為那如果未來將來有人申請釋憲就類似的這樣子的一個案件他申請的釋憲你認為這個羈押制度對於所謂的被害人保護不足而構成所謂的違憲您認為大法官有沒有機會可以有介入的空間\n\n06:05.305 --> 06:27.218\n大法官的解釋或判決基本上是在補充立法的不足但是大法官一旦透過原則性、補充性各方面的解釋以後還是最後希望透過立法機關定定法律依據這樣解釋的方向或判決的方向來定定法律來補足這些法律的漏洞\n\n06:27.938 --> 06:48.579\n了解那接下來我想要再請教就是兒少性侵害我想這個是社會非常沉痛的一個議題喔那也是不可以忽視的一個創傷之一啦那這類的這個所謂的這個犯罪喔不僅僅是對於所謂的少年或者是兒童他們是造成長期的影響而且是長達好幾年不管是心理上或者是在精神上\n\n06:49.099 --> 07:07.658\n他其實都受到這樣子的一個傷害跟不正義的一個對待了那我想這個國家其實有責任要提供給就回應這樣子的一個需求來針對這樣子的一個關於像兒上性侵害的一個司法制度上能夠來保障這個被害人在整個所有的成長的一個過程當中\n\n07:08.468 --> 07:23.340\n但是我們的刑法跟民事求償的部分其實對於所謂的性侵害犯罪的追溯期限還有民法對於所謂的侵權的一個行為所設的損害的一個賠償的要求的期限\n\n07:23.740 --> 07:52.296\n其實它都是有期限的但是往往在整個所有的這個期限固定的一個時間許多的兒少如果遭遇到這樣子的一個不幸的事件的時候他長期的心理的恐懼而且在遭受所謂的權力不對等的一個狀況之下多重的壓力之下其實往往都沒有辦法在期效就是在期限當中能夠主張自己的一個權利這個是我們看到的一個現狀那我想陳教授\n\n07:54.009 --> 08:14.572\n這個性侵害其實對於所謂的這個兒童來說其實是非常隱晦而且是非常深層的一個傷害那對於少年或者是對於我們的兒童那在整個所有的壓力權力不對等或者是他無法在法律規定的時間當中他去提起所謂的訴訟其實是不是也同樣的忽略了憲法所保障的身體自主\n\n08:14.972 --> 08:26.356\n跟人格尊嚴還有他自己本身的救濟權那您認為在某種特定的情況之下對於所謂的性侵害的被害人他設了這樣子的一個絕對的時效有沒有構成違憲的問題\n\n08:27.913 --> 08:40.109\n報告委員剛才陳昱臻委員有在提問有關死刑的問題本來要補充回答一個問題在這邊是否容許我一起補充這段時間大家都針對有關死刑的問題的討論但是都沒有針對\n\n08:45.456 --> 09:00.400\n我們說活著更痛苦也就是說被害家屬的傷痛身心靈的傷痛的一個照顧這是國家很重要的一個義務一樣的情形受性侵的婦女或者是兒童\n\n09:01.140 --> 09:23.803\n這個部分呢基本上他們的整個身心靈的創痛跟照顧國家在這裡是非常不足的特別是未來如果剛才講到有關有這個期限的問題起訴期限的問題這些內容上面呢基本上會可能會面臨一個夢魘就是說未來還可能會再遇到相關的這樣的一個\n\n09:25.304 --> 09:44.658\n個人或者一個情形那是不是國家在這邊應該要更進一步的去做相關的配套措施跟補救措施那不過這是大院的權責基本上我是尊重大院在這方面只是希望能夠大院在這方面能夠更積極的來做這方面的一個補助\n\n09:45.376 --> 10:11.117\n我剛剛講的其實性侵害的對象其實是兒少我講的是兒少的部分在他們真的長大能夠面對這些事情或是在權力稍微能夠對等的時候他來提出這樣子的一個為自己權益來做一個保障我剛剛的問題您可能還沒有回答就是對於所謂的性侵害的被害人這個所設的不管是刑法也好或者是民法也好這個所設的這個所謂的這個有效的期限是不是構成違憲\n\n10:13.399 --> 10:31.548\n我認為這個可能我想以目前的狀況當下的現實狀況來講可能會有違憲之餘那是否真的有違憲因為基本上司法還是要看到事實證據跟相關法規的部分那法規的規定如何才能夠\n\n10:32.188 --> 11:00.214\n那如果這被害人他主張在刑法跟民法的時效當中這個制度其實他的經驗其實這個部分我們的解釋是違憲的那您認為大法官是不是可以透過所謂的釋憲給予更彈性的一個法律解釋基本上大法官可以在立法者還未進行這個立法漏洞的一個填補過程當中來可以填補這樣子一個漏洞但是最後還是要尊重大院有關立法將大法官所提出的相關的原則\n\n11:01.374 --> 11:18.702\n來透過具體的法律更明確的予以規範我想現行這個求償期限的一個設計其實往往都忽略了這些兒少性侵害的被害人他們的一些特殊性那另外他就是他們能夠自主求償的一個能力的一個限制其實反而造成了實質上的一個侵害這個你同意嗎同意\n\n11:20.700 --> 11:35.416\n接下來也是很多在校園當中我想這個最近大家也都一直不斷的在討論就是老師的權益那關於所謂的校士會議的一些爭議那我想您自己本身也是教授\n\n11:36.016 --> 11:51.416\n那也在校園當中其實也教書那我想呢這個近期在教育的現場出現的一些狀況特別是講到校事會議的一個設置跟運作當然也引起了很多的教師們他們自己本身的一些討論那同時呢也引發了一些爭議\n\n11:52.577 --> 12:12.240\n那我講的這個核心就是在於這個所謂的校事會議它作為一種所謂的調查的一個機制那其實在運作當中往往都會涉入比較主觀的人士的一個判斷甚至逾越了所謂的這個公平公正的一個界線那變成一種處分的工具或者是變成一種處分的\n\n12:13.221 --> 12:35.227\n這樣子的一個手段其實反而侵害到了所謂的教師受憲法保障工作權對於所謂的程序正義落實造成了一個非常重大的一個挑戰喔那我想呢這個教師的工作權受到憲法第15條的一個保障喔但是在缺乏正式的行政處分跟程序還有法律依據的時候學校到底有沒有這個權利用所謂的調查會議的名義\n\n12:37.748 --> 13:04.841\n針對所謂的教師來產生這樣子的一個調查啟動的一個方式會對他們的一個工作權益會不會造成一個比較不利的影響報告委員這是有關教育專業的部分基本上呢必須要由教育學者專家來針對這個部分來做探討那至於當然就法律人來講基本上整個做出任何的調查程序等等都必須符合正當法律程序符合比例原則\n\n13:05.501 --> 13:20.442\n透明公開原則等等這些的一個程序的規範所以說在這種情形之下學校的調查程序如果能夠最好能夠是在法律或法律授權的辦法裡面去明定那依據這樣的程序\n\n13:20.922 --> 13:39.213\n其次呢這個調查程序可能必須要有不同的背景這方面專業背景的參與包括教育學者老師本身以及法律專家等等這些才能夠如果進行這樣調查程序才能夠符合所謂的我們的公平的原則\n\n13:39.932 --> 13:58.351\n那就您這個法律人的一個角度你怎麼樣來界定這個內部事務的調查跟對人事權的實質的處分這個範圍來做這樣子的一個分界校事會議到底有沒有辦法可以提供所謂的申辯跟救濟那如果沒有這個是不是已經違反了這個當法律程序的一個原則\n\n13:59.312 --> 14:26.122\n如果沒有法律授權或法律規定的話基本上是不可以做這樣對教師工作權各方面的一個限制的這個部分那這個部分因為本身不是在教育法領域裡面所以我們只能從憲法的一個第八條人身自由的正當法律程序以及相關的行政程序來說明這個部分不過還是要強調一點最重要還是要法律的規定跟法律的授權才可以進行這樣的調查程序\n\n14:26.544 --> 14:47.053\n因為教育自治其實是憲法重要的一個原則所謂的這個教育自治但如果校內的制度其實侵犯到了老師基本的權益您認為國家要不要介入那大法官是不是應該可以要求調查程序正義在憲法的層次上有一個比較明顯的一個規範明確的一個規範你怎麼樣來看這個所謂的憲政層次的一個張力\n\n14:53.233 --> 15:19.046\n我贊成必須要有正如剛才講的必須如果現在目前的規定沒有符合法律保留法律授權以及相關的正當法律程序等等這些的話我想這些都必須要透過立法者那如果立法者沒有做的話基本上大法官如果有到釋憲有這種狀況的話原則上應該在這裡可以做補充性的來填補以保障老師的工作權好\n\n15:20.270 --> 15:42.740\n那最後一個部分我想請教的就是說我知道陳教授這個過去其實參與不少所謂的這個轉型正義的一個座談那您認為這個轉型正義是法律政治還是憲法層次的一個問題那我想大家都知道其實轉型正義其實不是為了要撕裂我們的社會而是要讓我們歷史的傷痕不再重演\n\n15:43.140 --> 16:08.960\n那唯有面對過去的整個不公不義還原真相那另外還有平反受害者我們才能夠真正建立人民對於國家體制的一個信任讓憲政民主的一個制度它有一個穩固的一個根基這是其實轉型正義的最重要的一個目的那我想請教就是陳教授您是否認為這個轉型正義是屬於憲法當中它雖然未明文\n\n16:09.400 --> 16:36.695\n但卻具有所謂的憲法未接的國家義務報告委員我本身留學德國對於納粹時期相關的不正義的事項我們都非常的這樣子深刻的理解所以轉型正義一開始應該是從二次世界大戰開始之後各國所面臨的後來因為東歐的整個共產國家崩潰以後\n\n16:37.555 --> 17:03.752\n所形成的相關的這些內容包括還有南非等等這些這是一個憲法層次或者是法哲學層次的法正義理念的實踐那正如委員剛才所垂詢的基本上這並不是一種報復而是讓未來的人民能夠理解這一段的歷史未來不應該再重蹈覆轍來維護整個自由民主的憲政秩序\n\n17:04.417 --> 17:32.318\n因為在台灣也有白色恐怖也有228事件其實到現在其實受害者的心靈或者是受害者他們自己本身的家屬其實還沒有獲得這樣子的一個平反的機會喔所以其實轉型正義是非常重要那也就是說這個雖然憲法沒有明文的規定我們的轉型正義啦應該可以這麼講但是在國家的憲法上面其實我們應該要有義務去積極的揭露真相補償受害者跟追\n\n17:33.118 --> 17:57.706\n追究加害者的一个义务这你同意吗是我赞成那大法官怎么看如果我们透过视线来要求国家对于所谓的历史的不义的行为来负起具体的一个责任请问如果将来您是大法官您怎么看待这样子的一个题目那另外就是请教您怎么看所谓的转促条例的程序跟成效是\n\n17:58.486 --> 18:27.562\n報告委員基本上剛才盧委員所推詢我已經跟各委員報告了基本上轉型正義是要讓後來的人民能夠了解以前有這樣的一個不正義的狀況造成國家甚至民主的一個慘痛的一個過程所以說大法官在這個部分上基本上從我們的憲法的法理等等為了維護法正義等等這些內容上\n\n18:28.002 --> 18:55.220\n基本上是可以得出這樣的一個結果不過這個問題基本最重要還是最前端的由立法者跟行政權對府衛我記得歷任的政府不管任何政黨執政都針對這件事情有去做過非常多的補償救濟等等這些內容但是我是認為還是不足夠的所以說未來的政府應該繼續朝這個方向繼續的努力除非有不足的地方\n\n18:55.840 --> 19:11.057\n或者是因為人民在這方面有更進一步的受到侵害這種狀況之下有提起憲法訴訟細數的時候大法官當然要對這個維護法正義的理念來做出補充的說明\n\n19:11.778 --> 19:27.178\n當然我們其實也聽到了有一些不同的聲音我假設這個問題只是假設如果未來有聲音要主張廢除所謂的轉促條例您認不認為這可以用違憲審查是可以介入的\n\n19:29.553 --> 19:44.172\n轉述條例這個部分呢基本上是立法院通過而且現在目前在實施未來如果是不是要看這個條例本身他的立法的目的是否已經完成如果認為違憲審查可以介入嗎\n\n19:46.313 --> 20:03.558\n您認為報告委員因為我沒有完整的去看到這個內容我沒有辦法去看違憲審查的譬如說他侵害到人權或者是他有違反的相關的這個問題我實在是很抱歉我沒有看到具體我也不希望非常直覺跟委員\n\n20:06.199 --> 20:17.002\n我們提供給您一個方向如果將來您是大法官的話其實這個有可能會碰得到的一些狀況跟問題那也提供給陳教授做一個參考是好謝謝謝謝郭委員\n\n","segments":[{"start":12.977,"end":16.1,"text":"有請陳教授請備題目人答詢委員好陳教授早安我想憲法法庭從去年到現在一直都是處於停擺的一個狀態"},{"start":31.943,"end":43.864,"text":"那憲法法庭大部分應該是95%以上應該申請釋憲的都是人民您對這樣子的一個狀況目前憲法法庭癱瘓當中您有什麼看法"},{"start":45.066,"end":62.606,"text":"報告委員因為我們憲法訴訟法有修改當然尊重大院的職權但是各國有關憲法訴訟法相關的規定都有原則跟例外或者我們說非常態的一個規定但是這次憲法訴訟法"},{"start":63.847,"end":91.012,"text":"這個部分好像並沒有看到所以才會造成這樣子對人民權利保障上面可能會有所中斷不過這是大院的職權尊重大院的職權我們當然也很遺憾看到這樣子的結果因為有很多人民申請的釋憲案到目前為止還是停放在那個地方沒有被解決我想訴諸憲法法庭申請釋憲其實是人民最後的保護自己的一個手段"},{"start":91.411,"end":119.683,"text":"但我們真的並不樂見這樣的一個結果好那我想呢請教這個請教說這個前一陣子我們看到這個新北屠城發生了嚴重的一個家暴的一個命案喔那我想這件事情應該是也讓很多的社會大眾開始議論紛紛喔那我想這名男子呢這個行兇的這個所謂的加害者他明明已經被核發了所謂的保護令但是仍然在開庭之後他還是"},{"start":121.224,"end":141.536,"text":"對這個兩名的女性來進行施暴甚至直接造成兩名女性的一個死亡那我想這個案件當中其實我們也看到家庭暴力防治法實務在運作當中可能也出現了一些所謂的這個法律明定就算他違反了保護令他可以裁定羈押但是在實務上"},{"start":143.168,"end":170.55,"text":"我們看到法官對於所謂的羈押的一個裁定的比例其實還是偏低那導致這個被這個保護令對於所謂的這個加害人的強制力並不足那在您認為這現行的羈押一個制度在比例原則之下是不是能夠足以保護受害者那如果在制度上他是無法防範明知有暴力風險的人再次的加害這是不是真的構成了對人身安全保障的憲法失靈的一個狀態"},{"start":171.611,"end":198.39,"text":"那我想就請教您如果將來您擔任所謂的大法官那會如何從憲法的觀點來審視這類的一個制度的漏洞報告委員憲法秩序多元憲法秩序之下要保障人權從未出生的胎兒一直到成年甚至到老年年長者以及甚至對死亡者的整體的一個保護"},{"start":199.23,"end":218.658,"text":"那這個保護的整個過程以及整個的制度的配套這都是國家應該負起的一個保護義務那在這個保護義務之下呢會透過行政跟立法兩者之間的協力來制定相關的政策以及法規以及執行"},{"start":219.258,"end":241.862,"text":"那在這些內容當中因為個人曾經擔任過非常多的法規委員那法規委員會的委員裡面對於各種修法的規定跟建議在這個過程當中我深深體會到土法不足以自行因為很多的法律規定都是很抽象的"},{"start":242.422,"end":271.203,"text":"必須靠實務的整個發展來加以配合當然也要靠實務的所謂我們的公務員來能夠有同理心來一起來補充這些法律的不足我們進一步來請教一下這個陳教授就是比例原則啦我們講這個比例原則是不是可以在這一類的高風險的情境之下讓位是讓位給所謂的這個被害人保護優先這個部分如果將來您是大法官您的見解"},{"start":273.411,"end":291.73,"text":"事實上比例原則上面因為這種現實的狀況出現了非常多在修法方面基本上要透過相關的配套措施更加嚴格的來針對相關的一些漏洞來加以填補基本上這些漏洞的填補"},{"start":293.311,"end":316.385,"text":"還是並沒有違反比例原則所以基本上在這個部分我是贊成的贊成在這個部分要更針對實務上的這些實例來補充法律的漏洞剛剛講到這個所謂的實例其實我們看到有很多的所謂的家暴的事件當中其實都有兒童涉及那就您的觀點你怎麼看待兒童最佳利益原則在憲法當中是不是具有實質的一個據書裡"},{"start":319.952,"end":344.686,"text":"報告委員兒童的利益這個部分呢是憲法保障的重要的法益特別在我們台灣少子化的情形之下兒童的保障特別兒童是一個毫無反抗能力或完全沒有辦法自衛能力的這樣子的一個基本權主體所以在這裡保障上面應該要更加的強化這方面的保障那主管機關"},{"start":345.947,"end":364.408,"text":"應該要有這方面的一個更強化更積極的作為那如果未來將來有人申請釋憲就類似的這樣子的一個案件他申請的釋憲你認為這個羈押制度對於所謂的被害人保護不足而構成所謂的違憲您認為大法官有沒有機會可以有介入的空間"},{"start":365.305,"end":387.218,"text":"大法官的解釋或判決基本上是在補充立法的不足但是大法官一旦透過原則性、補充性各方面的解釋以後還是最後希望透過立法機關定定法律依據這樣解釋的方向或判決的方向來定定法律來補足這些法律的漏洞"},{"start":387.938,"end":408.579,"text":"了解那接下來我想要再請教就是兒少性侵害我想這個是社會非常沉痛的一個議題喔那也是不可以忽視的一個創傷之一啦那這類的這個所謂的這個犯罪喔不僅僅是對於所謂的少年或者是兒童他們是造成長期的影響而且是長達好幾年不管是心理上或者是在精神上"},{"start":409.099,"end":427.658,"text":"他其實都受到這樣子的一個傷害跟不正義的一個對待了那我想這個國家其實有責任要提供給就回應這樣子的一個需求來針對這樣子的一個關於像兒上性侵害的一個司法制度上能夠來保障這個被害人在整個所有的成長的一個過程當中"},{"start":428.468,"end":443.34,"text":"但是我們的刑法跟民事求償的部分其實對於所謂的性侵害犯罪的追溯期限還有民法對於所謂的侵權的一個行為所設的損害的一個賠償的要求的期限"},{"start":443.74,"end":472.296,"text":"其實它都是有期限的但是往往在整個所有的這個期限固定的一個時間許多的兒少如果遭遇到這樣子的一個不幸的事件的時候他長期的心理的恐懼而且在遭受所謂的權力不對等的一個狀況之下多重的壓力之下其實往往都沒有辦法在期效就是在期限當中能夠主張自己的一個權利這個是我們看到的一個現狀那我想陳教授"},{"start":474.009,"end":494.572,"text":"這個性侵害其實對於所謂的這個兒童來說其實是非常隱晦而且是非常深層的一個傷害那對於少年或者是對於我們的兒童那在整個所有的壓力權力不對等或者是他無法在法律規定的時間當中他去提起所謂的訴訟其實是不是也同樣的忽略了憲法所保障的身體自主"},{"start":494.972,"end":506.356,"text":"跟人格尊嚴還有他自己本身的救濟權那您認為在某種特定的情況之下對於所謂的性侵害的被害人他設了這樣子的一個絕對的時效有沒有構成違憲的問題"},{"start":507.913,"end":520.109,"text":"報告委員剛才陳昱臻委員有在提問有關死刑的問題本來要補充回答一個問題在這邊是否容許我一起補充這段時間大家都針對有關死刑的問題的討論但是都沒有針對"},{"start":525.456,"end":540.4,"text":"我們說活著更痛苦也就是說被害家屬的傷痛身心靈的傷痛的一個照顧這是國家很重要的一個義務一樣的情形受性侵的婦女或者是兒童"},{"start":541.14,"end":563.803,"text":"這個部分呢基本上他們的整個身心靈的創痛跟照顧國家在這裡是非常不足的特別是未來如果剛才講到有關有這個期限的問題起訴期限的問題這些內容上面呢基本上會可能會面臨一個夢魘就是說未來還可能會再遇到相關的這樣的一個"},{"start":565.304,"end":584.658,"text":"個人或者一個情形那是不是國家在這邊應該要更進一步的去做相關的配套措施跟補救措施那不過這是大院的權責基本上我是尊重大院在這方面只是希望能夠大院在這方面能夠更積極的來做這方面的一個補助"},{"start":585.376,"end":611.117,"text":"我剛剛講的其實性侵害的對象其實是兒少我講的是兒少的部分在他們真的長大能夠面對這些事情或是在權力稍微能夠對等的時候他來提出這樣子的一個為自己權益來做一個保障我剛剛的問題您可能還沒有回答就是對於所謂的性侵害的被害人這個所設的不管是刑法也好或者是民法也好這個所設的這個所謂的這個有效的期限是不是構成違憲"},{"start":613.399,"end":631.548,"text":"我認為這個可能我想以目前的狀況當下的現實狀況來講可能會有違憲之餘那是否真的有違憲因為基本上司法還是要看到事實證據跟相關法規的部分那法規的規定如何才能夠"},{"start":632.188,"end":660.214,"text":"那如果這被害人他主張在刑法跟民法的時效當中這個制度其實他的經驗其實這個部分我們的解釋是違憲的那您認為大法官是不是可以透過所謂的釋憲給予更彈性的一個法律解釋基本上大法官可以在立法者還未進行這個立法漏洞的一個填補過程當中來可以填補這樣子一個漏洞但是最後還是要尊重大院有關立法將大法官所提出的相關的原則"},{"start":661.374,"end":678.702,"text":"來透過具體的法律更明確的予以規範我想現行這個求償期限的一個設計其實往往都忽略了這些兒少性侵害的被害人他們的一些特殊性那另外他就是他們能夠自主求償的一個能力的一個限制其實反而造成了實質上的一個侵害這個你同意嗎同意"},{"start":680.7,"end":695.416,"text":"接下來也是很多在校園當中我想這個最近大家也都一直不斷的在討論就是老師的權益那關於所謂的校士會議的一些爭議那我想您自己本身也是教授"},{"start":696.016,"end":711.416,"text":"那也在校園當中其實也教書那我想呢這個近期在教育的現場出現的一些狀況特別是講到校事會議的一個設置跟運作當然也引起了很多的教師們他們自己本身的一些討論那同時呢也引發了一些爭議"},{"start":712.577,"end":732.24,"text":"那我講的這個核心就是在於這個所謂的校事會議它作為一種所謂的調查的一個機制那其實在運作當中往往都會涉入比較主觀的人士的一個判斷甚至逾越了所謂的這個公平公正的一個界線那變成一種處分的工具或者是變成一種處分的"},{"start":733.221,"end":755.227,"text":"這樣子的一個手段其實反而侵害到了所謂的教師受憲法保障工作權對於所謂的程序正義落實造成了一個非常重大的一個挑戰喔那我想呢這個教師的工作權受到憲法第15條的一個保障喔但是在缺乏正式的行政處分跟程序還有法律依據的時候學校到底有沒有這個權利用所謂的調查會議的名義"},{"start":757.748,"end":784.841,"text":"針對所謂的教師來產生這樣子的一個調查啟動的一個方式會對他們的一個工作權益會不會造成一個比較不利的影響報告委員這是有關教育專業的部分基本上呢必須要由教育學者專家來針對這個部分來做探討那至於當然就法律人來講基本上整個做出任何的調查程序等等都必須符合正當法律程序符合比例原則"},{"start":785.501,"end":800.442,"text":"透明公開原則等等這些的一個程序的規範所以說在這種情形之下學校的調查程序如果能夠最好能夠是在法律或法律授權的辦法裡面去明定那依據這樣的程序"},{"start":800.922,"end":819.213,"text":"其次呢這個調查程序可能必須要有不同的背景這方面專業背景的參與包括教育學者老師本身以及法律專家等等這些才能夠如果進行這樣調查程序才能夠符合所謂的我們的公平的原則"},{"start":819.932,"end":838.351,"text":"那就您這個法律人的一個角度你怎麼樣來界定這個內部事務的調查跟對人事權的實質的處分這個範圍來做這樣子的一個分界校事會議到底有沒有辦法可以提供所謂的申辯跟救濟那如果沒有這個是不是已經違反了這個當法律程序的一個原則"},{"start":839.312,"end":866.122,"text":"如果沒有法律授權或法律規定的話基本上是不可以做這樣對教師工作權各方面的一個限制的這個部分那這個部分因為本身不是在教育法領域裡面所以我們只能從憲法的一個第八條人身自由的正當法律程序以及相關的行政程序來說明這個部分不過還是要強調一點最重要還是要法律的規定跟法律的授權才可以進行這樣的調查程序"},{"start":866.544,"end":887.053,"text":"因為教育自治其實是憲法重要的一個原則所謂的這個教育自治但如果校內的制度其實侵犯到了老師基本的權益您認為國家要不要介入那大法官是不是應該可以要求調查程序正義在憲法的層次上有一個比較明顯的一個規範明確的一個規範你怎麼樣來看這個所謂的憲政層次的一個張力"},{"start":893.233,"end":919.046,"text":"我贊成必須要有正如剛才講的必須如果現在目前的規定沒有符合法律保留法律授權以及相關的正當法律程序等等這些的話我想這些都必須要透過立法者那如果立法者沒有做的話基本上大法官如果有到釋憲有這種狀況的話原則上應該在這裡可以做補充性的來填補以保障老師的工作權好"},{"start":920.27,"end":942.74,"text":"那最後一個部分我想請教的就是說我知道陳教授這個過去其實參與不少所謂的這個轉型正義的一個座談那您認為這個轉型正義是法律政治還是憲法層次的一個問題那我想大家都知道其實轉型正義其實不是為了要撕裂我們的社會而是要讓我們歷史的傷痕不再重演"},{"start":943.14,"end":968.96,"text":"那唯有面對過去的整個不公不義還原真相那另外還有平反受害者我們才能夠真正建立人民對於國家體制的一個信任讓憲政民主的一個制度它有一個穩固的一個根基這是其實轉型正義的最重要的一個目的那我想請教就是陳教授您是否認為這個轉型正義是屬於憲法當中它雖然未明文"},{"start":969.4,"end":996.695,"text":"但卻具有所謂的憲法未接的國家義務報告委員我本身留學德國對於納粹時期相關的不正義的事項我們都非常的這樣子深刻的理解所以轉型正義一開始應該是從二次世界大戰開始之後各國所面臨的後來因為東歐的整個共產國家崩潰以後"},{"start":997.555,"end":1023.752,"text":"所形成的相關的這些內容包括還有南非等等這些這是一個憲法層次或者是法哲學層次的法正義理念的實踐那正如委員剛才所垂詢的基本上這並不是一種報復而是讓未來的人民能夠理解這一段的歷史未來不應該再重蹈覆轍來維護整個自由民主的憲政秩序"},{"start":1024.417,"end":1052.318,"text":"因為在台灣也有白色恐怖也有228事件其實到現在其實受害者的心靈或者是受害者他們自己本身的家屬其實還沒有獲得這樣子的一個平反的機會喔所以其實轉型正義是非常重要那也就是說這個雖然憲法沒有明文的規定我們的轉型正義啦應該可以這麼講但是在國家的憲法上面其實我們應該要有義務去積極的揭露真相補償受害者跟追"},{"start":1053.118,"end":1077.706,"text":"追究加害者的一个义务 这你同意吗是 我赞成那大法官怎么看如果我们透过视线来要求国家对于所谓的历史的不义的行为来负起具体的一个责任请问如果将来您是大法官您怎么看待这样子的一个题目那另外就是请教您怎么看所谓的转促条例的程序跟成效是"},{"start":1078.486,"end":1107.562,"text":"報告委員 基本上剛才盧委員所推詢我已經跟各委員報告了基本上轉型正義是要讓後來的人民能夠了解以前有這樣的一個不正義的狀況造成國家甚至民主的一個慘痛的一個過程所以說大法官在這個部分上基本上從我們的憲法的法理等等為了維護法正義等等這些內容上"},{"start":1108.002,"end":1135.22,"text":"基本上是可以得出這樣的一個結果不過這個問題基本最重要還是最前端的由立法者跟行政權對府衛我記得歷任的政府不管任何政黨執政都針對這件事情有去做過非常多的補償救濟等等這些內容但是我是認為還是不足夠的所以說未來的政府應該繼續朝這個方向繼續的努力除非有不足的地方"},{"start":1135.84,"end":1151.057,"text":"或者是因為人民在這方面有更進一步的受到侵害這種狀況之下有提起憲法訴訟細數的時候大法官當然要對這個維護法正義的理念來做出補充的說明"},{"start":1151.778,"end":1167.178,"text":"當然我們其實也聽到了有一些不同的聲音我假設這個問題只是假設如果未來有聲音要主張廢除所謂的轉促條例您認不認為這可以用違憲審查是可以介入的"},{"start":1169.553,"end":1184.172,"text":"轉述條例這個部分呢基本上是立法院通過而且現在目前在實施未來如果是不是要看這個條例本身他的立法的目的是否已經完成如果認為 違憲審查可以介入嗎"},{"start":1186.313,"end":1203.558,"text":"您認為報告委員因為我沒有完整的去看到這個內容我沒有辦法去看違憲審查的譬如說他侵害到人權或者是他有違反的相關的這個問題我實在是很抱歉我沒有看到具體我也不希望非常直覺跟委員"},{"start":1206.199,"end":1217.002,"text":"我們提供給您一個方向如果將來您是大法官的話其實這個有可能會碰得到的一些狀況跟問題那也提供給陳教授做一個參考是好謝謝謝謝郭委員"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":384,"blocks":[["郭委員昱晴：（10時24分）有請陳教授。"],["主席：請被提名人答詢。"],["陳慈陽被提名人：委員好。"],["郭委員昱晴：陳教授早安。憲法法庭從去年到現在，一直都是處於停擺的狀態，憲法法庭大部分、有95%以上聲請釋憲的應該都是人民，對目前憲法法庭癱瘓中的這樣狀況，您有什麼看法？"],["陳慈陽被提名人：報告委員，因為我們憲法訴訟法有修改，當然尊重大院的職權，但是各國有關憲法訴訟法相關的規定都有原則跟例外，或者我們說非常態的一個規定，但是這次憲法訴訟法針對這個部分好像並沒有看到，所以才會造成這樣對人民權利保障上可能會有所中斷，不過這是大院的職權，尊重大院的職權。"],["郭委員昱晴：我們當然也很遺憾看到這樣的結果，因為有很多人民聲請的釋憲案，到目前為止還是停放在那個地方，沒有被解決，我想訴諸憲法法庭聲請釋憲其實是人民最後保護自己的一個手段，但我們真的並不樂見這樣的結果。","我想請教陳教授，前一陣子我們看到新北土城發生了嚴重的家暴命案，這件事情也讓社會大眾開始議論紛紛，這名男子就是行兇的加害者，明明已經被核發了保護令，但是仍然在開庭之後對兩名女性施暴，甚至直接造成兩名女性的死亡，在這個案件當中，我們看到家庭暴力防治法在實務運作當中，可能也出現了一些法律明定，就算他違反了保護令，法官可以裁定羈押，但是在實務上，我們看到法官羈押裁定的比例其實還是偏低，導致保護令對於加害人的強制力不足，您認為現行的羈押制度在比例原則之下，是不是足以保護受害者？如果在制度上，它無法防範明知有暴力風險的人再次的加害，這是不是真的構成了憲法保障人身安全失靈的狀態？請教您，如果將來您擔任大法官，那會如何從憲法的觀點來審視這類制度的漏洞？"],["陳慈陽被提名人：報告委員，多元憲法秩序之下要保障的人權，從未出生的胎兒一直到成年、到年長者，甚至到對死亡者的整體保護，這整個保護的過程及整個制度的配套，都是國家應該負起的義務，在這個保護義務之下，會透過行政跟立法兩者之間的協力來制定相關的政策、法規，並且執行，在這些內容當中，因為個人曾經擔任過非常多法規委員，法規委員會的委員對於各種修法的規定跟建議，在這個過程當中，我深深體會到徒法不足以自行，因為很多的法律規定都是很抽象的，必須靠實務的整個發展來加以配合，當然實務上也要靠我們的公務員能夠有同理心，一起來補充這些法律的不足。"],["郭委員昱晴：我進一步來請教陳教授，我們講的比例原則是不是可以在這一類高風險的情境之下，讓位給被害人保護優先，這個部分，如果將來您是大法官，您的見解如何？"],["陳慈陽被提名人：是，報告委員，事實上比例原則因為這種現實的狀況出現了非常多，在修法方面，基本上要透過相關的配套措施，更加嚴格的來針對相關的漏洞來加以填補，但是這些漏洞的填補還是沒有違反比例原則，所以，基本上我贊成在這個部分要更針對實務上的實例來補充法律的漏洞。"],["郭委員昱晴：剛剛講到實例，我們看到很多家暴事件當中都有兒童涉及，那就您的觀點，您怎麼看待兒童最佳利益原則在憲法當中是不是具有實質的拘束力？"],["陳慈陽被提名人：報告委員，兒童的利益是憲法保障的重要法益，特別在我們臺灣少子化的情形之下，而兒童又是毫無反抗能力或完全沒有自衛能力的基本權主體，所以在保障上面應該要更加的強化，主管機關應該要有這方面更強化、更積極的作為。"],["郭委員昱晴：如果未來有人就類似的案件聲請釋憲，主張羈押制度對於被害人保護不足而構成所謂的違憲，您認為大法官有沒有機會可以有介入的空間？"],["陳慈陽被提名人：大法官的解釋或判決，基本上是在補充立法的不足。但是，大法官一旦透過原則性、補充性等各方面的解釋以後，最後還是希望透過立法機關依據解釋或判決的方向來訂定法律，補足這些法律的漏洞。"],["郭委員昱晴：好，了解。接下來我想要再請教的就是兒少性侵害，這是社會非常沉痛的一個議題，也是不可以忽視的創傷之一。這一類的犯罪不僅僅是對於所謂的少年或者是兒童造成長期的影響，而且是長達好幾年，不管是心理上或是在精神上，他其實都受到這樣子的傷害跟不正義的對待。","我想國家其實有責任要回應這樣子的一個需求，針對像兒少性侵害的司法制度上，能夠在其整個成長的過程當中保障被害人。但是，我們刑法跟民事求償的部分，對於性侵害犯罪的追訴期限，還有民法對於侵權行為所設的要求損害賠償的期限，這兩者都是有期限的，但是往往這個固定的期限時間，許多兒少如果遭遇到這樣的不幸事件的時候，他長期心理上的恐懼，而且在遭受權力不對等的多重壓力的狀況之下，其實往往都沒有辦法在期效，也就是在期限內主張自己的權利，這是我們看到的一個現狀。","我想，陳教授，性侵害對於兒童來說其實是非常隱晦，而且是非常深層的一個傷害，當然對於少年亦然，在整個所有的壓力、權力不對等，或者是他無法在法律規定的時效內去提起訴訟，是不是也同樣地忽略了憲法所保障的身體自主跟人格尊嚴，還有他自己本身的救濟權？您認為在某種特定的情況之下，對於性侵害的被害人設定這樣一個絕對的時效，有沒有構成違憲的問題？"],["陳慈陽被提名人：報告委員，剛才陳玉珍委員提問有關死刑的問題，本來要補充回答一個問題，在這邊是否容許我一起補充？"],["郭委員昱晴：可以。"],["陳慈陽被提名人：這段時間大家都在討論有關死刑的問題，但是都沒有針對，我們說活著更痛苦，也就是被害家屬身心靈傷痛的照顧，這是國家很重要的一個義務。一樣的情形，基本上對於受性侵的婦女或是兒童整個身心靈的創痛跟照顧，國家在這個部分是非常不足的。特別是未來，剛才講到有關期限的問題，起訴期限的問題，這些內容基本上可能會讓受害者面臨一個夢魘，就是未來還可能會再遇到這樣一個相關的個人或是情形，是不是國家在這部分應該要更進一步的去做相關的配套措施跟補救措施。不過，這是大院的權責，基本上在這方面我是尊重大院，只是希望大院在這方面能夠更積極地來補足。"],["郭委員昱晴：我剛剛講的性侵害的對象其實是指兒少，我講的是兒少的部分，在他們真的長大能夠面對這件事情，或者在權力稍微能夠對等的時候，他來提出這樣的一個，為自己的權益來做一個保障。我剛剛的問題您還沒有回答，就是對於性侵害的被害人，不管是刑法也好，或者是民法也好，所設的所謂有效期限是不是構成違憲？您只要回答我這個問題。"],["陳慈陽被提名人：我想以目前的狀況，以當下的現實狀況來講，可能會有違憲之虞，那是否真的有違憲，因為基本上司法還是要看到事實、證據跟相關法規的部分，要看法規的規定如何，才能夠來跟委員報告……"],["郭委員昱晴：好。如果這個被害人主張在刑法跟民法的時效當中，就他的經驗，這個部分我們的解釋是違憲的，那您認為大法官是不是可以透過所謂的釋憲，給予更彈性的法律解釋？"],["陳慈陽被提名人：基本上大法官可以在立法者還未進行立法漏洞填補的過程當中來填補這樣子的漏洞，但是最後還是要尊重大院有關立法，將大法官所提出的相關原則，透過具體的法律更明確的予以規範。"],["郭委員昱晴：現行求償期限的設計其實往往都忽略了這些兒少性侵害被害人的特殊性，另外就是他們自主求償能力的限制，其實反而造成實質上的侵害，這個你同意嗎？"],["陳慈陽被提名人：同意。"],["郭委員昱晴：接下來，在校園當中，最近大家也一直在討論老師的權益，關於校事會議的一些爭議。您本身是教授，也在校園當中教書，近期在教育現場出現了一些狀況，特別是講到校事會議的設置和運作，當然也引起很多教師本身的討論，同時也引發了一些爭議。我想這個核心就是在於校事會議它做為一個調查的機制，其實在運作當中往往都會涉入比較主觀的人事判斷，甚至逾越公平、公正的界線，變成一種處分的工具，或者是變成一種處分的手段，其實反而侵害到教師受憲法保障的工作權，對於所謂程序正義的落實造成一個非常重大的挑戰。","教師的工作權受到憲法第十五條的保障，但是在缺乏正式的行政處分程序和法律依據的時候，學校到底有沒有這個權力用調查會議的名義針對教師啟動調查？對他們的工作權益會不會造成比較不利的影響？"],["陳慈陽被提名人：報告委員，這是有關教育專業的部分，基本上必須由教育學者專家針對這個部分來做探討。當然，就法律人來講，基本上做出任何調查程序等等，都必須符合正當法律程序，以及符合比例原則、透明公開原則等等這些程序的規範。所以說，在這種情形之下，學校的調查程序如果能夠的話，最好是在法律或法律授權的辦法裡面去明定，依據這樣的程序。其次，這個調查程序可能必須要有不同的背景、這方面專業背景的參與，包括教育學者、老師本身，以及法律專家等等，如果進行這樣的調查程序，才能夠符合所謂的公平原則。"],["郭委員昱晴：好。就您法律人的角度，你怎麼樣來界定這個內部事務的調查跟對人事權的實質處分，就這個範圍來予以分界？校事會議到底有沒有辦法提供申辯跟救濟？如果沒有，這個是不是已經違反了法律程序的原則？"],["陳慈陽被提名人：如果沒有法律授權或法律規定的話，基本上是不可以做這樣對教師工作權各方面的限制。這個部分因為本身不是在教育法領域裡面，所以我們只能從憲法第八條人身自由的正當法律程序以及相關的行政程序來說明這個部分，不過還是要強調一點，最重要還是要有法律的規定跟法律的授權，才可以進行這樣的調查程序。"],["郭委員昱晴：教育自治其實是憲法重要的一個原則，但是如果校內的制度侵犯到老師的基本權益，您認為國家要不要介入？大法官是不是應該可以要求調查程序正義在憲法的層次上有一個比較明確的規範？您怎麼樣來看這個所謂的憲政層次的張力？"],["陳慈陽被提名人：報告委員，正如剛才講的，如果目前的規定沒有符合法律保留、法律授權，以及相關的正當法律程序等等的話，我想這些都必須透過立法者，如果立法者沒有做的話，基本上如果有到釋憲這種狀況的話，大法官原則上應該在這裡可以做補充性的填補，以保障老師的工作權。"],["郭委員昱晴：好。最後一個部分我想請教的就是，我知道陳教授過去其實參與不少所謂的轉型正義的座談，您認為轉型正義是法律、政治還是憲法層次的問題？","我想大家都知道，其實轉型正義不是為了要撕裂我們的社會，而是要讓歷史的傷痕不再重演，唯有面對過去的不公不義，還原真相，平反受害者，才能夠真正建立人民對國家體制的信任，讓憲政民主的制度有一個穩固的根基，這其實是轉型正義最重要的目的。","我想請教陳教授，您是否認為轉型正義是屬於憲法當中雖然未明文，但卻具有所謂憲法位階的國家義務？"],["陳慈陽被提名人：報告委員，我本身留學德國，對於納粹時期相關的不正義事項，我們都非常深刻的理解，所以轉型正義一開始應該是從二次世界大戰開始之後，各國所面臨的問題，以及後來因為東歐整個共產國家崩潰以後，所形成的相關這些內容，包括還有南非等等，這是一個憲法層次或者是法哲學層次的法正義理念的實踐，正如委員剛才所垂詢的，基本上這並不是一種報復，而是讓未來的人民能夠理解這一段的歷史，未來不應該再重蹈覆轍，以維護整個自由民主的憲政秩序。"],["郭委員昱晴：因為在臺灣也有白色恐怖，也有二二八事件，其實到現在受害者的心靈，或者是受害者的家屬，其實還沒有獲得這樣子一個平反的機會，所以轉型正義非常重要，也就是雖然憲法沒有明文規定轉型正義，應該可以這麼講，但是在國家的憲法上面，其實我們應該要有義務去積極的揭露真相、補償受害者跟追究加害者的義務，這你同意嗎？"],["陳慈陽被提名人：是，我贊成。"],["郭委員昱晴：那麼大法官怎麼看？如果我們透過釋憲來要求國家對於所謂歷史的不義行為負起具體的責任，請問如果將來您是大法官，您怎麼看待這樣子的一個題目？另外，就是請教您怎麼看促轉條例的存續跟成效？"],["陳慈陽被提名人：報告委員，如剛才委員所垂詢，我已經跟委員報告的，基本上轉型正義是要讓未來、後來的人民能夠了解以前有這樣的一個不正義的狀況，造成國家甚至民主的一個慘痛過程，所以大法官在這個部分，基本上，從我們憲法的法理、為了維護法正義等等這些內容上，是可以得出這樣的一個結果。不過這個問題最重要還是最前端的，由立法者跟行政權對於撫慰，我記得歷任的政府，不管任何政黨執政，針對這件事情，都有做過非常多的補償、救濟等等這些內容，但是我認為還是不足夠的，所以未來的政府應該朝這個方向繼續的努力，除非有不足的部分，或者是因為人民在這方面有更進一步受到侵害，這種狀況之下，有提起憲法訴訟繫屬的時候，大法官當然要對於維護法正義的理念來做出補充說明。"],["郭委員昱晴：當然我們其實也聽到了有一些不同的聲音，我做一個假設，這個問題只是假設，如果未來有聲音要主張廢除所謂的促轉條例，您認不認為這是可以用違憲審查介入的？"],["陳慈陽被提名人：促轉條例這個部分基本上是立法院通過，而且目前在實施，未來要看這個條例本身的立法目的是否已經完成，如果認為……"],["郭委員昱晴：違憲審查可以介入嗎？您認為呢？"],["陳慈陽被提名人：報告委員，因為我沒有完整的看到這個內容，我沒有辦法去看違憲審查的狀況，譬如它侵害到人權，或者是它有違反相關的問題。我實在是很抱歉，我沒有看到具體，我也不希望非常直覺跟委員回答，這樣是對委員的不尊重。"],["郭委員昱晴：沒問題，我們提供給您一個方向，如果將來您是大法官的話，其實這是也有可能會碰得到的一些狀況跟問題，也提供給陳教授做一個參考。"],["陳慈陽被提名人：是。"],["郭委員昱晴：謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝郭委員、謝謝被提名人。","下一位請柯志恩委員詢問。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":532,"meet_id":"全院委員會-11-3-4","speakers":["江啟臣","陳玉珍","林國成","劉建國","葛如鈞","郭昱晴","柯志恩","陳培瑜","陳昭姿","蘇巧慧","陳俊宇","牛煦庭","盧縣一"],"page_start":467,"meetingDate":["2025-07-14"],"gazette_id":"1146501","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1146501_00009","1146501_00010"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期第4次全院委員會會議紀錄","content":"總統咨，為司法院大法官含院長、副院長，現有缺額7名，茲依據中華民國憲法增修條文第5條規\n定，提名蔡秋明、蘇素娥、蕭文生、鄭純惠、林麗瑩、陳慈陽、詹鎮榮7位為司法院大法官，並\n以蔡秋明為院長、蘇素娥為副院長，咨請同意案（後接第二冊）","agenda_id":"1146501_00005"}}}