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60.243, \"end\": 61.084, \"score\": 0.952}, {\"word\": \"選\"}, {\"word\": \"擇\"}, {\"word\": \"要\", \"start\": 61.084, \"end\": 61.224, \"score\": 0.981}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 61.224, \"end\": 61.244, \"score\": 0.001}, {\"word\": \"要\", \"start\": 61.244, \"end\": 61.444, \"score\": 0.903}, {\"word\": \"生\", \"start\": 61.444, \"end\": 61.564, \"score\": 0.983}, {\"word\": \"育\", \"start\": 61.564, \"end\": 61.664, \"score\": 0.8}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 61.664, \"end\": 61.684, \"score\": 0.973}, {\"word\": \"問\"}, {\"word\": \"題\"}]}, {\"start\": 62.845, \"end\": 83.588, \"text\": \"我覺得是整個社會能不能生有沒有辦法生的一個結構性的困境我想請教被提名人當自然生育沒有辦法去支撐世代交替的時候例如有人因為疾病因為器官缺損等等即便他有胚胎也沒有辦法植入\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 62.845, \"end\": 63.126, \"score\": 0.871}, {\"word\": \"覺\"}, {\"word\": \"得\", \"start\": 63.126, \"end\": 63.246, \"score\": 0.836}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 63.246, \"end\": 63.426, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"整\", \"start\": 63.426, \"end\": 63.786, 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{\"word\": \"監\"}, {\"word\": \"察\", \"start\": 1034.38, \"end\": 1034.54, \"score\": 0.982}, {\"word\": \"院\", \"start\": 1034.54, \"end\": 1034.84, \"score\": 0.856}, {\"word\": \"進\"}, {\"word\": \"行\", \"start\": 1034.84, \"end\": 1035.04, \"score\": 0.935}, {\"word\": \"糾\"}, {\"word\": \"正\", \"start\": 1035.04, \"end\": 1035.28, \"score\": 0.935}, {\"word\": \"糾\"}, {\"word\": \"舉\"}, {\"word\": \"或\", \"start\": 1035.28, \"end\": 1035.481, \"score\": 0.9}, {\"word\": \"彈\"}, {\"word\": \"劾\", \"start\": 1035.481, \"end\": 1035.501, \"score\": 0.0}]}, {\"start\": 1037.282, \"end\": 1053.157, \"text\": \"但這個部分竟然也被判違憲了您在書面回覆有提到說認為這個修法可以解讀成是對機關或是公務人員為師的一個檢舉那促使監察權的這個職權發動而已應該沒有違憲可不可以請你稍微再說明一下\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"但\", \"start\": 1037.282, \"end\": 1037.623, \"score\": 0.877}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 1037.623, \"end\": 1037.763, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"分\", \"start\": 1037.763, \"end\": 1037.923, \"score\": 0.955}, {\"word\": 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1050.434, \"end\": 1050.554, \"score\": 0.832}, {\"word\": \"已\", \"start\": 1050.554, \"end\": 1051.375, \"score\": 0.927}, {\"word\": \"應\"}, {\"word\": \"該\"}, {\"word\": \"沒\", \"start\": 1051.375, \"end\": 1051.495, \"score\": 0.833}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 1051.495, \"end\": 1051.795, \"score\": 0.874}, {\"word\": \"違\"}, {\"word\": \"憲\"}, {\"word\": \"可\", \"start\": 1051.795, \"end\": 1051.955, \"score\": 0.874}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 1051.955, \"end\": 1052.076, \"score\": 0.833}, {\"word\": \"可\", \"start\": 1052.076, \"end\": 1052.176, \"score\": 0.8}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 1052.176, \"end\": 1052.296, \"score\": 0.833}, {\"word\": \"請\"}, {\"word\": \"你\", \"start\": 1052.296, \"end\": 1052.416, \"score\": 0.835}, {\"word\": \"稍\", \"start\": 1052.416, \"end\": 1052.556, \"score\": 0.857}, {\"word\": \"微\", \"start\": 1052.556, \"end\": 1052.656, \"score\": 0.799}, {\"word\": \"再\", \"start\": 1052.656, \"end\": 1052.956, \"score\": 0.894}, {\"word\": \"說\"}, {\"word\": \"明\", \"start\": 1052.956, \"end\": 1053.076, \"score\": 0.981}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 1053.076, \"end\": 1053.137, \"score\": 0.666}, {\"word\": \"下\", \"start\": 1053.137, \"end\": 1053.157, \"score\": 0.678}]}, {\"start\": 1054.529, \"end\": 1070.214, \"text\": \"這個在憲判第九號的解釋理由書大法官有做一個說明他說即使是檢舉也會造成憲政機關之間的一個可能是恐怖平衡的失衡\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 1054.529, \"end\": 1055.649, \"score\": 0.982}, {\"word\": \"憲\"}, {\"word\": \"判\", \"start\": 1055.649, \"end\": 1056.03, \"score\": 0.994}, {\"word\": \"第\", \"start\": 1056.03, \"end\": 1056.25, \"score\": 0.911}, {\"word\": \"九\", \"start\": 1056.25, \"end\": 1056.79, \"score\": 0.93}, {\"word\": \"號\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 1056.79, \"end\": 1057.01, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"解\", \"start\": 1057.01, \"end\": 1057.27, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"釋\"}, {\"word\": \"理\", \"start\": 1057.27, \"end\": 1057.63, \"score\": 0.903}, {\"word\": \"由\", \"start\": 1057.63, \"end\": 1058.89, \"score\": 0.981}, {\"word\": \"書\"}, {\"word\": \"大\", \"start\": 1058.89, \"end\": 1059.11, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"法\", \"start\": 1059.11, \"end\": 1059.331, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"官\", \"start\": 1059.331, \"end\": 1059.551, \"score\": 0.992}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 1059.551, \"end\": 1059.811, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"做\", \"start\": 1059.811, \"end\": 1060.071, \"score\": 0.856}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 1060.071, \"end\": 1060.771, \"score\": 0.943}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"說\"}, {\"word\": \"明\", \"start\": 1060.771, \"end\": 1061.071, \"score\": 0.988}, {\"word\": \"他\", \"start\": 1061.071, \"end\": 1061.491, \"score\": 0.951}, {\"word\": \"說\"}, {\"word\": \"即\", \"start\": 1061.491, \"end\": 1061.791, \"score\": 0.935}, {\"word\": \"使\", \"start\": 1061.791, \"end\": 1061.971, \"score\": 0.909}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 1061.971, \"end\": 1063.132, \"score\": 0.954}, {\"word\": \"檢\"}, {\"word\": \"舉\"}, {\"word\": \"也\", \"start\": 1063.132, \"end\": 1063.492, \"score\": 0.944}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"造\", \"start\": 1063.492, \"end\": 1063.732, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"成\", \"start\": 1063.732, \"end\": 1064.372, \"score\": 0.968}, {\"word\": \"憲\"}, {\"word\": \"政\", \"start\": 1064.372, \"end\": 1065.272, \"score\": 0.942}, {\"word\": \"機\"}, {\"word\": \"關\"}, {\"word\": \"之\", \"start\": 1065.272, \"end\": 1065.953, \"score\": 0.97}, {\"word\": \"間\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 1065.953, \"end\": 1066.113, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 1066.113, \"end\": 1068.173, \"score\": 0.99}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"可\", \"start\": 1068.173, \"end\": 1068.293, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"能\", \"start\": 1068.293, \"end\": 1068.473, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 1068.473, \"end\": 1068.653, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"恐\", \"start\": 1068.653, \"end\": 1068.913, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"怖\", \"start\": 1068.913, \"end\": 1069.113, \"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"平\", \"start\": 1069.113, \"end\": 1069.354, \"score\": 0.941}, {\"word\": \"衡\", \"start\": 1069.354, \"end\": 1069.594, \"score\": 0.975}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 1069.594, \"end\": 1069.914, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"失\", \"start\": 1069.914, \"end\": 1070.194, \"score\": 0.965}, {\"word\": \"衡\", \"start\": 1070.194, \"end\": 1070.214, \"score\": 0.013}]}, {\"start\": 1071.194, \"end\": 1085.043, \"text\": \"不過我個人認為這個當然作為有權解釋我尊重憲判的見解但是我個人認為這個部分其實就是一種檢舉促使有權機關去發動他的職權\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 1071.194, \"end\": 1071.514, \"score\": 0.937}, {\"word\": \"過\"}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 1071.514, \"end\": 1071.895, \"score\": 0.947}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"人\", \"start\": 1071.895, \"end\": 1073.276, \"score\": 0.911}, {\"word\": \"認\"}, {\"word\": \"為\"}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"當\"}, {\"word\": \"然\", \"start\": 1073.276, \"end\": 1074.116, \"score\": 0.968}, {\"word\": \"作\", \"start\": 1074.116, \"end\": 1074.376, \"score\": 0.934}, {\"word\": \"為\"}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 1074.376, \"end\": 1074.836, \"score\": 0.955}, {\"word\": \"權\"}, {\"word\": \"解\", \"start\": 1074.836, \"end\": 1075.257, \"score\": 0.949}, {\"word\": \"釋\"}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 1075.257, \"end\": 1075.537, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"尊\", \"start\": 1075.537, \"end\": 1075.837, \"score\": 0.995}, {\"word\": \"重\", \"start\": 1075.837, \"end\": 1077.138, \"score\": 0.978}, {\"word\": \"憲\"}, {\"word\": \"判\", \"start\": 1077.138, \"end\": 1077.418, \"score\": 0.996}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 1077.418, \"end\": 1078.018, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"見\"}, {\"word\": \"解\", \"start\": 1078.018, \"end\": 1078.519, \"score\": 0.925}, {\"word\": \"但\", \"start\": 1078.519, \"end\": 1078.679, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 1078.679, \"end\": 1078.799, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 1078.799, \"end\": 1079.359, 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\"關\"}, {\"word\": \"去\", \"start\": 1084.462, \"end\": 1084.823, \"score\": 0.944}, {\"word\": \"發\"}, {\"word\": \"動\"}, {\"word\": \"他\", \"start\": 1084.823, \"end\": 1085.023, \"score\": 0.9}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 1085.023, \"end\": 1085.043, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"職\"}, {\"word\": \"權\"}]}, {\"start\": 1087.624, \"end\": 1109.256, \"text\": \"謝謝您因為您在書面這樣回答我也希望大家能夠聽到您公開的一個說明那我再請教貝提敏人根據我國憲政體制下的全職全立分立制度地方政府在自治事項上具有一定程度的自主性中央政府應該是秉持輔導性的原則不要輕易的介入或否決地方的立法\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"您\", \"start\": 1087.624, \"end\": 1088.004, \"score\": 0.833}, {\"word\": \"因\", \"start\": 1088.004, \"end\": 1088.345, \"score\": 0.941}, {\"word\": \"為\"}, {\"word\": \"您\", \"start\": 1088.345, \"end\": 1088.565, \"score\": 0.911}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 1088.565, \"end\": 1089.025, \"score\": 0.951}, {\"word\": \"書\"}, {\"word\": \"面\", \"start\": 1089.025, \"end\": 1089.385, \"score\": 0.891}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"樣\"}, {\"word\": 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\"end\": 1239.4, \"score\": 0.954}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 1239.4, \"end\": 1239.42, \"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"詢\"}, {\"word\": \"問\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:04,232 --> 00:00:08,457\n謝謝主席有請備體名人曾教授請備體名人答詢委員好\n\n2\n00:00:17,762 --> 00:00:35,821\n背題裡面詹教授您好我想先請你看兩張圖這兩張圖都是來自內政部跟主計總處的官方數據左邊這張圖告訴我們從2020年開始台灣就進入人口的負成長也就是說出生的人數遠低於\n\n3\n00:00:36,842 --> 00:01:01,684\n死亡的人數那右邊這張圖是告訴我們過去十年來從2015年出生人口數從22萬、21萬一直到去年的農年13.8萬那今年上半年現在是6.6萬預期不會超過13萬因此生育問題不再是某一些人選擇要不要生育的問題\n\n4\n00:01:02,845 --> 00:01:23,588\n我覺得是整個社會能不能生有沒有辦法生的一個結構性的困境我想請教被提名人當自然生育沒有辦法去支撐世代交替的時候例如有人因為疾病因為器官缺損等等即便他有胚胎也沒有辦法植入\n\n5\n00:01:24,930 --> 00:01:44,245\n所以該思考的問題是不是國家應該要有義務給予更多元更可行的一條生育路徑而不是一味的去禁止它所以首先我想跟你談的就是憲法下的生育自主跟家庭形成的這樣的一個保障\n\n6\n00:01:45,406 --> 00:02:12,791\n您在書面意見中有提及代理育母制度不再是社會上極少數族群的期盼願望或是需求而已而是當代社會環境下地球公民已經開始要面臨的共通問題且代孕的急迫性與成熟度在立法政策上逐漸提升本席非常認同您的見解雖然您認為目前尚未形成社會共識還需要進一步觀察進展但是請問您是否同意\n\n7\n00:02:13,271 --> 00:02:36,898\n如果社會共識永遠無法達成其實我不知道世界上有沒有所謂的共識社會共識如果永遠無法自然形成社會共識那您是否同意國家應該要積極扮演協助制度化的一個這樣的角色國家是不是有義務要去建構有效監督的一個法治的一個選項請貝提琳回答\n\n8\n00:02:37,779 --> 00:02:53,789\n好謝謝委員您的提問陳如我在回覆民眾黨黨團的問卷裡面所表示的立場我是支持在目前少子化或者是委員您剛所提到的諸多因素\n\n9\n00:02:54,788 --> 00:03:15,832\n之下當生育自然的生育不再具有可能性的時候應該容許有多元的選擇路徑那我也補充說明我在裡面會提到社會共識其實是針對代理孕母裡面孕母\n\n10\n00:03:16,809 --> 00:03:43,267\n跟子女之間有血緣的這一個部分但是我的立場不是說一定要有共識才可以立法我瞭解等一下我會再繼續請教您這個部分根據聯合國2024年的世界生育報告台灣去年的總生育率是全世界倒數前幾名只有0.86從生不如死的這個數據來看生育就不是個人選擇問題現在已經進入台灣社會的一個\n\n11\n00:03:44,588 --> 00:04:00,591\n人口危機跟公共政策請問您是否同意國家有必要重新對我們的人工生殖法的部分就是全面禁止代孕的部分要重新檢討來因應人民有生育自主跟家庭形成的一個保障\n\n12\n00:04:02,081 --> 00:04:29,623\n來檢討這個好謝謝那您在書面回覆也提到剛剛你剛剛要解釋的話待遇若涉及人工受精模式會涉及親子關係跟奴隸關係的爭議會比較大需要特別審慎那我這裡要要說的就是說本黨所提供提出來的這個人工生殖法的修法版本並沒有納入人工受精這個待遇模式喔而是限定在試管嬰兒胚胎植入的模式那請問你\n\n13\n00:04:30,524 --> 00:04:44,843\n這樣是不是比較符合比例原則跟基本權的保障也比較合乎這個憲法的期待呢是因為它的爭議性比較少立法難度比較低所以您是支持這樣的一個版本是的謝謝\n\n14\n00:04:47,061 --> 00:05:12,930\n目前人工生殖法第11條採的是正面表列規定只有符合不孕症跟重大遺傳性疾病的情況的夫妻而且一方至少要具備健康的生殖細胞才能夠進行人工生殖也就是說一對合法的夫妻即便他們經過醫師的專業評估認為適合用試管胚胎來進行待遇也不得為之\n\n15\n00:05:14,190 --> 00:05:37,735\n那現行的法也未開放任何形態的一個代孕技術使得醫療機構面對這樣的個案或這樣的病人的時候他們因為法律的障礙不敢去施作那您認為這樣是不是可能過度排除了某些其他有需求的族群例如卵巢摘除、子宮摘除這是否構成對生育自主其實是有不合理的一個差別代孕呢\n\n16\n00:05:39,231 --> 00:05:59,228\n我是支持在這樣的一個方案底下將代理育母制度於納入法律的明文肯認感謝貝提米人那面對節節上升社會需求嘛最近我們看到的是民進黨政府在待遇議題上是以拖待變先騙再說啦一再用脫鉤\n\n17\n00:06:00,709 --> 00:06:19,492\n為藉口其實根本想放手那即便國際間現在已經有數十個國家他是在嚴格監管條件下允許特定形式的一個代孕那也有很多篇已經發表了這個實證醫學的研究顯示只要在妥善的支持跟規範下有代孕媽媽所生出來的兒童其實在\n\n18\n00:06:20,392 --> 00:06:43,385\n在社會跟心理的發展上它都沒有在統計學具有意義的一個負面的影響這是有證據的那另外我要談的就是說針對代孕可能造成的剝削的這個部分的討論第三屆國大代表那個莊盛榮律師他有指出合法化不等於放任喔相反的因為代孕具有爭議性更需要法律制度來納入專業審查醫療安全\n\n19\n00:06:46,066 --> 00:07:07,455\n還有這個心理評估跟契約的保障能夠讓守護每一方的這個權利讓孩子擁有完整的法律的這個保護跟這個家庭的支持如果繼續封鎖這條路大禮物不會消失而且會進入更黑暗更危險更不正義請問被提名的您贊同這樣的說法嗎\n\n20\n00:07:08,910 --> 00:07:34,317\n我贊成在代理育母的議題上面導政是優於目前的意志我的理由在於或許目前在某些團體他會擔心代理育母制度的導入會違反人性尊嚴也就是所謂的將子宮給工具化我個人基本的立場是\n\n21\n00:07:36,161 --> 00:08:02,997\n在這樣的一個代理育母的合法化的情況之下我們其實是可以透過法治的設計去免除這個疑慮謝謝貝提名人因為幾十個國家都有了我們是可以來規範接下來我要請教貝提名人在江雅琦教授的這個學位造假的學術論理案您是否有參與出審審查工作並且擔任副召集人請你回答是或不是是\n\n22\n00:08:03,997 --> 00:08:21,249\n那在2021年11月出審審查小組認定江雅琪連續9年她在申請科技部相關的文件上她載入或使人登載法學博士學位造假虛構不存在的一個博士學位名稱\n\n23\n00:08:22,430 --> 00:08:40,051\n這個情節嚴重的影響科技部審查的判斷而且是資源分配的公正問題所以當時的這個小組他一致決議是停權三年等處分請問是不是有這件事情您是否支持或同意這樣的一個決議內容\n\n24\n00:08:41,994 --> 00:09:00,868\n我是學倫小組的一個成員之一也是代表學門進入到誠信班確實有這樣的一個決議跟內容你也確實擔任副召集人那這個決議也是大家的共識那江雅琪當時是台電董事喔你們當初書審小組做出的這樣的建議卻在學倫審議會上\n\n25\n00:09:03,888 --> 00:09:23,938\n被台電的訴訟代理人萬國法律事務所陳鵬光律師主導推翻了這樣結果你能接受嗎當初我在國科會的誠信辦代表學門去做陳述意見的事我有\n\n26\n00:09:25,374 --> 00:09:51,856\n堅決的表達學門的立場但是他被推翻了嘛他被推翻了那我要問的就是這個陳鵬光律師當時是否有利益衝突應該迴避審查呢我的印象是當初在開會之前有討論這件事情後來學陳姓辦的委員決議不需要利益迴避但是他本身不但他是這個\n\n27\n00:09:53,598 --> 00:10:08,650\n台電的訴訟代理人啊然後江雅琦是台電的董事啊陳某關不僅沒有迴避審查還主導審查推翻這個決議然後護航江雅琦非常的離譜啊您支持嗎您支持這樣的做法嗎\n\n28\n00:10:09,150 --> 00:10:35,640\n我跟委員報告當時現場的情況當初在討論利益迴避的時候如果我的印象是正確的那個時候所提出來的室友是好像是大學同學還是同班並沒有提到台電我現在告訴你一個是台電董事一個是台電的訴訟代理人你認為這樣沒有利益的衝突嗎\n\n29\n00:10:36,943 --> 00:10:56,690\n您的見解呢?如果確實有計劃案件的關聯性的話應該要迴避吧?是好,謝謝,謝謝貝提名人我進入下一個問題前,我想先請教你你認為我國的總統應該是全民的總統、全民的領袖還是特定政黨的超級領袖呢?\n\n30\n00:10:57,450 --> 00:11:18,689\n是中華民國的總統當然是國家的總統好謝謝你2009年民進黨黨主席蔡英文公開批評馬英九總統兼任黨主席會讓台灣的憲政進入極大的風險他認為總統不應該身兼黨主席這樣會造成權力分立的失衡蔡英文總統會這樣說是因為我國現在是半總統制\n\n31\n00:11:22,272 --> 00:11:49,340\n總統同時兼任黨主席他可以直接領導黨務而且可以掌握整個黨發展的方向總統一個人同時掌握行政權跟立法權會破壞在目前的辦總統制下總統和國會互相制衡的一個關係請問貝提米爾您剛剛也提到您是公法專家嘛您也即將擔任大法官從您對憲法的認知對台灣目前這個辦總統制下蔡英文這樣講對不對\n\n32\n00:11:52,269 --> 00:12:10,720\n我的認知至少從憲法的規範角度來講並沒有明文的禁止這個執政黨或是總統不可以兼任黨主席因為這是一個政治事務跟憲法事務的區隔那當然在這邊\n\n33\n00:12:12,583 --> 00:12:35,351\n基本上我不反對可以兼任黨主席但是要有憲法上的分際也就是在執行憲法職權時謝謝詹教授我們等一下繼續討論結果言猶在有蔡英文她在2016年或2020年擔任總統時她都身兼了黨主席那現在的總統賴清德也是身兼了黨主席\n\n34\n00:12:35,911 --> 00:12:58,508\n但是不管是馬英九、蔡英文或賴清德任期內憲法都沒有再修正過喔台灣依舊是半總統制那過去被人家討論的或是蔡英文總統講得那麼清楚的憲政危機權利分立失衡難道會因為換人執政換黨執政就不存在或消失了嗎不會不會好謝謝你\n\n35\n00:13:00,558 --> 00:13:24,753\n那所以總統兼任黨主席在台灣目前的這個半總統制度下有權無責嘛有權無責不僅破壞憲政體制造成權力分立的一個失衡更是全面的棄守全民總統的格局成為特定政黨的超級領袖我想要強調你望遠全世界民主程度越低的國家\n\n36\n00:13:25,693 --> 00:13:47,079\n他這個權力失衡權力分立失衡的情況是越嚴重的我想請教貝提米您是否同意台灣應該要開啟檢討總統跟政黨主席角色重疊的問題避免讓政黨利益高於或凌駕在國家利益之上呢您同意可以開啟這樣的檢討嗎\n\n37\n00:13:50,345 --> 00:14:18,054\n這樣的一個思索的方向當然在我們的整個憲政體制的進展當中我覺得是一個可以思考的命題但是我也跟委員報告在當代的憲政運作民主的體制之下他跟政黨政治是難以脫鉤的我理解那個曾教授就是說\n\n38\n00:14:20,296 --> 00:14:36,001\n檢討還是可以啟動的嘛因為還是有人尤其是當事人自己提出這樣的一個見解嘛那如此我覺得才能讓我們好不容易得來的這個自由民主價值繼續深化讓整個國家社會是一個處於一個比較穩定的狀況接下來是國會改革問題\n\n39\n00:14:36,741 --> 00:15:01,129\n您的問卷回覆中針對113年憲判制第九號提出不同意見主要有三個部分您的見解跟憲法法庭判決不同分別是總統到立法院國情報告官員缺席被刑時得罰還以及公務員不配合調查的時候得移送監察院這些都被判違憲了但是您問卷中的回覆是認為可以進行核限制的\n\n40\n00:15:01,829 --> 00:15:29,970\n解釋本席先肯定您有提出不同意見的勇氣那我再來請教首先是總統的國情報告賴清德在競選的時候說總統是有義務到立法院做國情報告但是憲法法庭卻說總統並無到立法院做國情報告的義務請問被提名人到底是賴總統說錯了還是憲法法庭解釋錯了總統到底有沒有義務到立法院來做國情報告呢\n\n41\n00:15:30,745 --> 00:15:47,963\n以目前憲法的規範是沒有是有的沒有義務沒有義務可以到立法院來報告但是您的見解是可以是我的見解是那一個職權行使法可以做合憲性解釋\n\n42\n00:15:48,644 --> 00:16:05,539\n是可以做核心的解釋那一個因其實是解釋成不具有拘束性去年國會改革修法如果官員無故缺席被尋或是故意拒打立委的質詢經院會決議可以處以罰款後來被憲法法庭又判違憲了\n\n43\n00:16:06,660 --> 00:16:28,045\n所以這個會議就出現行政院秘書長龔明星他缺席委員會然後國安會秘書長吳釗燮甚至兩度缺席但立法院卻對缺席的委員毫無沒有辦法去克責請問被提名人你認為對於官員沒有辦法盡他的政治責任時給予法律的制裁這樣有違憲嗎\n\n44\n00:16:31,067 --> 00:16:41,864\n我們在司法院釋字585號的解釋裡面當初大法官的判決是肯認\n\n45\n00:16:43,649 --> 00:16:58,565\n對於不遵守違反國會調查權跟質詢權的官員是可以以行政裁罰的方式因為這是確保調查權有效實施的附屬權利\n\n46\n00:17:01,247 --> 00:17:15,501\n其實民進黨在野的時候他非常支持國會要有聽證調查權那去年國會改革的修法也賦予立法院調查權而且對於不配合調查的機關政府機關或是公務員可以移送監察院進行糾正糾舉或彈劾\n\n47\n00:17:17,282 --> 00:17:33,157\n但這個部分竟然也被判違憲了您在書面回覆有提到說認為這個修法可以解讀成是對機關或是公務人員為師的一個檢舉那促使監察權的這個職權發動而已應該沒有違憲可不可以請你稍微再說明一下\n\n48\n00:17:34,529 --> 00:17:50,214\n這個在憲判第九號的解釋理由書大法官有做一個說明他說即使是檢舉也會造成憲政機關之間的一個可能是恐怖平衡的失衡\n\n49\n00:17:51,194 --> 00:18:05,043\n不過我個人認為這個當然作為有權解釋我尊重憲判的見解但是我個人認為這個部分其實就是一種檢舉促使有權機關去發動他的職權\n\n50\n00:18:07,624 --> 00:18:29,256\n謝謝您因為您在書面這樣回答我也希望大家能夠聽到您公開的一個說明那我再請教貝提敏人根據我國憲政體制下的全職全立分立制度地方政府在自治事項上具有一定程度的自主性中央政府應該是秉持輔導性的原則不要輕易的介入或否決地方的立法\n\n51\n00:18:29,796 --> 00:18:46,705\n然而台中市政府依生煤自治條例開罰中火超量使用生煤一案中卻遭行政院以部分條文違反空污法為由橫告無效當地方政府提起行政訴訟的時候最高行政法院也認為\n\n52\n00:18:48,065 --> 00:19:13,962\n應由憲法法庭來解釋而不提供實質救濟也就是中央一紙函告那地方政府就只能吞下去只能接受您認為這樣符合憲法中保障的地方自治跟垂直分權的原則嗎如果我的資訊沒有錯誤這個案件應該目前有申請憲法訴訟有沒有受理我不確定\n\n53\n00:19:14,932 --> 00:19:32,569\n所以以下我只能做一般式的認證我想請問台中市政府他更嚴格的一個環境保護開發中國是否也屬於地方自治合理的一個範疇呢至少就空汙而言我個人的基本立場是地方\n\n54\n00:19:34,230 --> 00:19:59,901\n並不完全沒有權限空屋這個防治的環境保護本來就是應該一個因地制宜的一個做法可是當時這個這個台中市政府依法開罰中火這個一千八百萬元結果當時環保署禁制撤銷罰單喔那台北這個高層環環境部是沒有權限這樣做的啦我覺得現在是進行中那我想我最後要告訴\n\n55\n00:20:00,781 --> 00:20:18,644\n被提名人就說大法官本來就是一個獨立的標杆但大法官做出裁決說應該要秉持公正跟獨立超然的精神請問你,你有這個信心跟決心當你成為大法官之後,您可以超然獨立的行使你的職權嗎?好,謝謝陳委員,謝謝被提名人的答詢\n\n56\n00:20:32,542 --> 00:20:39,420\n蘇巧慧委員之詢問已書面提出列入紀錄刊登公報下一位請陳玉珍委員詢問\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n4232\t8457\t謝謝主席 有請備體名人曾教授請備體名人答詢委員好\n17762\t35821\t背題裡面詹教授您好我想先請你看兩張圖這兩張圖都是來自內政部跟主計總處的官方數據左邊這張圖告訴我們從2020年開始台灣就進入人口的負成長也就是說出生的人數遠低於\n36842\t61684\t死亡的人數那右邊這張圖是告訴我們過去十年來從2015年出生人口數從22萬、21萬一直到去年的農年13.8萬那今年上半年現在是6.6萬預期不會超過13萬因此生育問題不再是某一些人選擇要不要生育的問題\n62845\t83588\t我覺得是整個社會能不能生有沒有辦法生的一個結構性的困境我想請教被提名人當自然生育沒有辦法去支撐世代交替的時候例如有人因為疾病因為器官缺損等等即便他有胚胎也沒有辦法植入\n84930\t104245\t所以該思考的問題是不是國家應該要有義務給予更多元更可行的一條生育路徑而不是一味的去禁止它所以首先我想跟你談的就是憲法下的生育自主跟家庭形成的這樣的一個保障\n105406\t132791\t您在書面意見中有提及代理育母制度不再是社會上極少數族群的期盼願望或是需求而已而是當代社會環境下地球公民已經開始要面臨的共通問題且代孕的急迫性與成熟度在立法政策上逐漸提升本席非常認同您的見解雖然您認為目前尚未形成社會共識還需要進一步觀察進展但是請問您是否同意\n133271\t156898\t如果社會共識永遠無法達成其實我不知道世界上有沒有所謂的共識社會共識如果永遠無法自然形成社會共識那您是否同意國家應該要積極扮演協助制度化的一個這樣的角色國家是不是有義務要去建構有效監督的一個法治的一個選項請貝提琳回答\n157779\t173789\t好 謝謝委員您的提問陳如我在回覆民眾黨黨團的問卷裡面所表示的立場我是支持在目前少子化或者是委員您剛所提到的諸多因素\n174788\t195832\t之下當生育自然的生育不再具有可能性的時候應該容許有多元的選擇路徑那我也補充說明我在裡面會提到社會共識其實是針對代理孕母裡面孕母\n196809\t223267\t跟子女之間有血緣的這一個部分但是我的立場不是說一定要有共識才可以立法我瞭解 等一下我會再繼續請教您這個部分根據聯合國2024年的世界生育報告台灣去年的總生育率是全世界倒數前幾名只有0.86從生不如死的這個數據來看生育就不是個人選擇問題現在已經進入台灣社會的一個\n224588\t240591\t人口危機跟公共政策請問您是否同意國家有必要重新對我們的人工生殖法的部分就是全面禁止代孕的部分要重新檢討來因應人民有生育自主跟家庭形成的一個保障\n242081\t269623\t來檢討這個好謝謝那您在書面回覆也提到剛剛你剛剛要解釋的話待遇若涉及人工受精模式會涉及親子關係跟奴隸關係的爭議會比較大需要特別審慎那我這裡要要說的就是說本黨所提供提出來的這個人工生殖法的修法版本並沒有納入人工受精這個待遇模式喔而是限定在試管嬰兒胚胎植入的模式那請問你\n270524\t284843\t這樣是不是比較符合比例原則跟基本權的保障也比較合乎這個憲法的期待呢是 因為它的爭議性比較少立法難度比較低所以您是支持這樣的一個版本是的謝謝\n287061\t312930\t目前人工生殖法第11條採的是正面表列規定只有符合不孕症跟重大遺傳性疾病的情況的夫妻而且一方至少要具備健康的生殖細胞才能夠進行人工生殖也就是說一對合法的夫妻即便他們經過醫師的專業評估認為適合用試管胚胎來進行待遇也不得為之\n314190\t337735\t那現行的法也未開放任何形態的一個代孕技術使得醫療機構面對這樣的個案或這樣的病人的時候他們因為法律的障礙不敢去施作那您認為這樣是不是可能過度排除了某些其他有需求的族群例如卵巢摘除、子宮摘除這是否構成對生育自主其實是有不合理的一個差別代孕呢\n339231\t359228\t我是支持在這樣的一個方案底下將代理育母制度於納入法律的明文肯認感謝貝提米人那面對節節上升社會需求嘛最近我們看到的是民進黨政府在待遇議題上是以拖待變先騙再說啦一再用脫鉤\n360709\t379492\t為藉口其實根本想放手那即便國際間現在已經有數十個國家他是在嚴格監管條件下允許特定形式的一個代孕那也有很多篇已經發表了這個實證醫學的研究顯示只要在妥善的支持跟規範下有代孕媽媽所生出來的兒童其實在\n380392\t403385\t在社會跟心理的發展上它都沒有在統計學具有意義的一個負面的影響這是有證據的那另外我要談的就是說針對代孕可能造成的剝削的這個部分的討論第三屆國大代表那個莊盛榮律師他有指出合法化不等於放任喔相反的因為代孕具有爭議性更需要法律制度來納入專業審查醫療安全\n406066\t427455\t還有這個心理評估跟契約的保障能夠讓守護每一方的這個權利讓孩子擁有完整的法律的這個保護跟這個家庭的支持如果繼續封鎖這條路大禮物不會消失而且會進入更黑暗更危險更不正義請問被提名的您贊同這樣的說法嗎\n428910\t454317\t我贊成在代理育母的議題上面導政是優於目前的意志我的理由在於或許目前在某些團體他會擔心代理育母制度的導入會違反人性尊嚴也就是所謂的將子宮給工具化我個人基本的立場是\n456161\t482997\t在這樣的一個代理育母的合法化的情況之下我們其實是可以透過法治的設計去免除這個疑慮謝謝貝提名人因為幾十個國家都有了我們是可以來規範接下來我要請教貝提名人在江雅琦教授的這個學位造假的學術論理案您是否有參與出審審查工作並且擔任副召集人請你回答是或不是是\n483997\t501249\t那在2021年11月出審審查小組認定江雅琪連續9年她在申請科技部相關的文件上她載入或使人登載法學博士學位造假虛構不存在的一個博士學位名稱\n502430\t520051\t這個情節嚴重的影響科技部審查的判斷而且是資源分配的公正問題所以當時的這個小組他一致決議是停權三年等處分請問是不是有這件事情您是否支持或同意這樣的一個決議內容\n521994\t540868\t我是學倫小組的一個成員之一也是代表學門進入到誠信班確實有這樣的一個決議跟內容你也確實擔任副召集人那這個決議也是大家的共識那江雅琪當時是台電董事喔你們當初書審小組做出的這樣的建議卻在學倫審議會上\n543888\t563938\t被台電的訴訟代理人萬國法律事務所陳鵬光律師主導推翻了這樣結果你能接受嗎當初我在國科會的誠信辦代表學門去做陳述意見的事我有\n565374\t591856\t堅決的表達學門的立場但是他被推翻了嘛他被推翻了那我要問的就是這個陳鵬光律師當時是否有利益衝突應該迴避審查呢我的印象是當初在開會之前有討論這件事情後來學陳姓辦的委員決議不需要利益迴避但是他本身不但他是這個\n593598\t608650\t台電的訴訟代理人啊然後江雅琦是台電的董事啊陳某關不僅沒有迴避審查還主導審查推翻這個決議然後護航江雅琦非常的離譜啊您支持嗎您支持這樣的做法嗎\n609150\t635640\t我跟委員報告當時現場的情況當初在討論利益迴避的時候如果我的印象是正確的那個時候所提出來的室友是好像是大學同學還是同班並沒有提到台電我現在告訴你一個是台電董事一個是台電的訴訟代理人你認為這樣沒有利益的衝突嗎\n636943\t656690\t您的見解呢?如果確實有計劃案件的關聯性的話應該要迴避吧?是好,謝謝,謝謝貝提名人我進入下一個問題前,我想先請教你你認為我國的總統應該是全民的總統、全民的領袖還是特定政黨的超級領袖呢?\n657450\t678689\t是中華民國的總統當然是國家的總統好謝謝你2009年民進黨黨主席蔡英文公開批評馬英九總統兼任黨主席會讓台灣的憲政進入極大的風險他認為總統不應該身兼黨主席這樣會造成權力分立的失衡蔡英文總統會這樣說是因為我國現在是半總統制\n682272\t709340\t總統同時兼任黨主席他可以直接領導黨務而且可以掌握整個黨發展的方向總統一個人同時掌握行政權跟立法權會破壞在目前的辦總統制下總統和國會互相制衡的一個關係請問貝提米爾您剛剛也提到您是公法專家嘛您也即將擔任大法官從您對憲法的認知對台灣目前這個辦總統制下蔡英文這樣講對不對\n712269\t730720\t我的認知至少從憲法的規範角度來講並沒有明文的禁止這個執政黨或是總統不可以兼任黨主席因為這是一個政治事務跟憲法事務的區隔那當然在這邊\n732583\t755351\t基本上我不反對可以兼任黨主席但是要有憲法上的分際也就是在執行憲法職權時謝謝詹教授 我們等一下繼續討論結果言猶在有蔡英文她在2016年或2020年擔任總統時她都身兼了黨主席那現在的總統賴清德也是身兼了黨主席\n755911\t778508\t但是不管是馬英九、蔡英文或賴清德任期內憲法都沒有再修正過喔台灣依舊是半總統制那過去被人家討論的或是蔡英文總統講得那麼清楚的憲政危機權利分立失衡難道會因為換人執政換黨執政就不存在或消失了嗎不會不會好 謝謝你\n780558\t804753\t那所以總統兼任黨主席在台灣目前的這個半總統制度下有權無責嘛有權無責不僅破壞憲政體制造成權力分立的一個失衡更是全面的棄守全民總統的格局成為特定政黨的超級領袖我想要強調你望遠全世界民主程度越低的國家\n805693\t827079\t他這個權力失衡權力分立失衡的情況是越嚴重的我想請教貝提米您是否同意台灣應該要開啟檢討總統跟政黨主席角色重疊的問題避免讓政黨利益高於或凌駕在國家利益之上呢您同意可以開啟這樣的檢討嗎\n830345\t858054\t這樣的一個思索的方向當然在我們的整個憲政體制的進展當中我覺得是一個可以思考的命題但是我也跟委員報告在當代的憲政運作民主的體制之下他跟政黨政治是難以脫鉤的我理解那個曾教授就是說\n860296\t876001\t檢討還是可以啟動的嘛因為還是有人尤其是當事人自己提出這樣的一個見解嘛那如此我覺得才能讓我們好不容易得來的這個自由民主價值繼續深化讓整個國家社會是一個處於一個比較穩定的狀況接下來是國會改革問題\n876741\t901129\t您的問卷回覆中針對113年憲判制第九號提出不同意見主要有三個部分您的見解跟憲法法庭判決不同分別是總統到立法院國情報告官員缺席被刑時得罰還以及公務員不配合調查的時候得移送監察院這些都被判違憲了但是您問卷中的回覆是認為可以進行核限制的\n901829\t929970\t解釋本席先肯定您有提出不同意見的勇氣那我再來請教首先是總統的國情報告賴清德在競選的時候說總統是有義務到立法院做國情報告但是憲法法庭卻說總統並無到立法院做國情報告的義務請問被提名人到底是賴總統說錯了還是憲法法庭解釋錯了總統到底有沒有義務到立法院來做國情報告呢\n930745\t947963\t以目前憲法的規範是沒有是有的沒有義務沒有義務可以到立法院來報告但是您的見解是可以是我的見解是那一個職權行使法可以做合憲性解釋\n948644\t965539\t是可以做核心的解釋那一個因其實是解釋成不具有拘束性去年國會改革修法如果官員無故缺席被尋或是故意拒打立委的質詢經院會決議可以處以罰款後來被憲法法庭又判違憲了\n966660\t988045\t所以這個會議就出現行政院秘書長龔明星他缺席委員會然後國安會秘書長吳釗燮甚至兩度缺席但立法院卻對缺席的委員毫無沒有辦法去克責請問被提名人你認為對於官員沒有辦法盡他的政治責任時給予法律的制裁這樣有違憲嗎\n991067\t1001864\t我們在司法院釋字585號的解釋裡面當初大法官的判決是肯認\n1003649\t1018565\t對於不遵守違反國會調查權跟質詢權的官員是可以以行政裁罰的方式因為這是確保調查權有效實施的附屬權利\n1021247\t1035501\t其實民進黨在野的時候他非常支持國會要有聽證調查權那去年國會改革的修法也賦予立法院調查權而且對於不配合調查的機關政府機關或是公務員可以移送監察院進行糾正糾舉或彈劾\n1037282\t1053157\t但這個部分竟然也被判違憲了您在書面回覆有提到說認為這個修法可以解讀成是對機關或是公務人員為師的一個檢舉那促使監察權的這個職權發動而已應該沒有違憲可不可以請你稍微再說明一下\n1054529\t1070214\t這個在憲判第九號的解釋理由書大法官有做一個說明他說即使是檢舉也會造成憲政機關之間的一個可能是恐怖平衡的失衡\n1071194\t1085043\t不過我個人認為這個當然作為有權解釋我尊重憲判的見解但是我個人認為這個部分其實就是一種檢舉促使有權機關去發動他的職權\n1087624\t1109256\t謝謝您因為您在書面這樣回答我也希望大家能夠聽到您公開的一個說明那我再請教貝提敏人根據我國憲政體制下的全職全立分立制度地方政府在自治事項上具有一定程度的自主性中央政府應該是秉持輔導性的原則不要輕易的介入或否決地方的立法\n1109796\t1126705\t然而台中市政府依生煤自治條例開罰中火超量使用生煤一案中卻遭行政院以部分條文違反空污法為由 橫告無效當地方政府提起行政訴訟的時候最高行政法院也認為\n1128065\t1153962\t應由憲法法庭來解釋而不提供實質救濟也就是中央一紙函告那地方政府就只能吞下去只能接受您認為這樣符合憲法中保障的地方自治跟垂直分權的原則嗎如果我的資訊沒有錯誤這個案件應該目前有申請憲法訴訟有沒有受理我不確定\n1154932\t1172569\t所以以下我只能做一般式的認證我想請問台中市政府他更嚴格的一個環境保護開發中國是否也屬於地方自治合理的一個範疇呢至少就空汙而言我個人的基本立場是地方\n1174230\t1199901\t並不完全沒有權限空屋這個防治的環境保護本來就是應該一個因地制宜的一個做法可是當時這個這個台中市政府依法開罰中火這個一千八百萬元結果當時環保署禁制撤銷罰單喔那台北這個高層環環境部是沒有權限這樣做的啦我覺得現在是進行中那我想我最後要告訴\n1200781\t1218644\t被提名人就說大法官本來就是一個獨立的標杆但大法官做出裁決說應該要秉持公正跟獨立超然的精神請問你,你有這個信心跟決心當你成為大法官之後,您可以超然獨立的行使你的職權嗎?好,謝謝陳委員,謝謝被提名人的答詢\n1232542\t1239420\t蘇巧慧委員之詢問已書面提出列入紀錄刊登公報下一位請陳玉珍委員詢問\n","txt":"謝謝主席 有請備體名人曾教授請備體名人答詢委員好\n背題裡面詹教授您好我想先請你看兩張圖這兩張圖都是來自內政部跟主計總處的官方數據左邊這張圖告訴我們從2020年開始台灣就進入人口的負成長也就是說出生的人數遠低於\n死亡的人數那右邊這張圖是告訴我們過去十年來從2015年出生人口數從22萬、21萬一直到去年的農年13.8萬那今年上半年現在是6.6萬預期不會超過13萬因此生育問題不再是某一些人選擇要不要生育的問題\n我覺得是整個社會能不能生有沒有辦法生的一個結構性的困境我想請教被提名人當自然生育沒有辦法去支撐世代交替的時候例如有人因為疾病因為器官缺損等等即便他有胚胎也沒有辦法植入\n所以該思考的問題是不是國家應該要有義務給予更多元更可行的一條生育路徑而不是一味的去禁止它所以首先我想跟你談的就是憲法下的生育自主跟家庭形成的這樣的一個保障\n您在書面意見中有提及代理育母制度不再是社會上極少數族群的期盼願望或是需求而已而是當代社會環境下地球公民已經開始要面臨的共通問題且代孕的急迫性與成熟度在立法政策上逐漸提升本席非常認同您的見解雖然您認為目前尚未形成社會共識還需要進一步觀察進展但是請問您是否同意\n如果社會共識永遠無法達成其實我不知道世界上有沒有所謂的共識社會共識如果永遠無法自然形成社會共識那您是否同意國家應該要積極扮演協助制度化的一個這樣的角色國家是不是有義務要去建構有效監督的一個法治的一個選項請貝提琳回答\n好 謝謝委員您的提問陳如我在回覆民眾黨黨團的問卷裡面所表示的立場我是支持在目前少子化或者是委員您剛所提到的諸多因素\n之下當生育自然的生育不再具有可能性的時候應該容許有多元的選擇路徑那我也補充說明我在裡面會提到社會共識其實是針對代理孕母裡面孕母\n跟子女之間有血緣的這一個部分但是我的立場不是說一定要有共識才可以立法我瞭解 等一下我會再繼續請教您這個部分根據聯合國2024年的世界生育報告台灣去年的總生育率是全世界倒數前幾名只有0.86從生不如死的這個數據來看生育就不是個人選擇問題現在已經進入台灣社會的一個\n人口危機跟公共政策請問您是否同意國家有必要重新對我們的人工生殖法的部分就是全面禁止代孕的部分要重新檢討來因應人民有生育自主跟家庭形成的一個保障\n來檢討這個好謝謝那您在書面回覆也提到剛剛你剛剛要解釋的話待遇若涉及人工受精模式會涉及親子關係跟奴隸關係的爭議會比較大需要特別審慎那我這裡要要說的就是說本黨所提供提出來的這個人工生殖法的修法版本並沒有納入人工受精這個待遇模式喔而是限定在試管嬰兒胚胎植入的模式那請問你\n這樣是不是比較符合比例原則跟基本權的保障也比較合乎這個憲法的期待呢是 因為它的爭議性比較少立法難度比較低所以您是支持這樣的一個版本是的謝謝\n目前人工生殖法第11條採的是正面表列規定只有符合不孕症跟重大遺傳性疾病的情況的夫妻而且一方至少要具備健康的生殖細胞才能夠進行人工生殖也就是說一對合法的夫妻即便他們經過醫師的專業評估認為適合用試管胚胎來進行待遇也不得為之\n那現行的法也未開放任何形態的一個代孕技術使得醫療機構面對這樣的個案或這樣的病人的時候他們因為法律的障礙不敢去施作那您認為這樣是不是可能過度排除了某些其他有需求的族群例如卵巢摘除、子宮摘除這是否構成對生育自主其實是有不合理的一個差別代孕呢\n我是支持在這樣的一個方案底下將代理育母制度於納入法律的明文肯認感謝貝提米人那面對節節上升社會需求嘛最近我們看到的是民進黨政府在待遇議題上是以拖待變先騙再說啦一再用脫鉤\n為藉口其實根本想放手那即便國際間現在已經有數十個國家他是在嚴格監管條件下允許特定形式的一個代孕那也有很多篇已經發表了這個實證醫學的研究顯示只要在妥善的支持跟規範下有代孕媽媽所生出來的兒童其實在\n在社會跟心理的發展上它都沒有在統計學具有意義的一個負面的影響這是有證據的那另外我要談的就是說針對代孕可能造成的剝削的這個部分的討論第三屆國大代表那個莊盛榮律師他有指出合法化不等於放任喔相反的因為代孕具有爭議性更需要法律制度來納入專業審查醫療安全\n還有這個心理評估跟契約的保障能夠讓守護每一方的這個權利讓孩子擁有完整的法律的這個保護跟這個家庭的支持如果繼續封鎖這條路大禮物不會消失而且會進入更黑暗更危險更不正義請問被提名的您贊同這樣的說法嗎\n我贊成在代理育母的議題上面導政是優於目前的意志我的理由在於或許目前在某些團體他會擔心代理育母制度的導入會違反人性尊嚴也就是所謂的將子宮給工具化我個人基本的立場是\n在這樣的一個代理育母的合法化的情況之下我們其實是可以透過法治的設計去免除這個疑慮謝謝貝提名人因為幾十個國家都有了我們是可以來規範接下來我要請教貝提名人在江雅琦教授的這個學位造假的學術論理案您是否有參與出審審查工作並且擔任副召集人請你回答是或不是是\n那在2021年11月出審審查小組認定江雅琪連續9年她在申請科技部相關的文件上她載入或使人登載法學博士學位造假虛構不存在的一個博士學位名稱\n這個情節嚴重的影響科技部審查的判斷而且是資源分配的公正問題所以當時的這個小組他一致決議是停權三年等處分請問是不是有這件事情您是否支持或同意這樣的一個決議內容\n我是學倫小組的一個成員之一也是代表學門進入到誠信班確實有這樣的一個決議跟內容你也確實擔任副召集人那這個決議也是大家的共識那江雅琪當時是台電董事喔你們當初書審小組做出的這樣的建議卻在學倫審議會上\n被台電的訴訟代理人萬國法律事務所陳鵬光律師主導推翻了這樣結果你能接受嗎當初我在國科會的誠信辦代表學門去做陳述意見的事我有\n堅決的表達學門的立場但是他被推翻了嘛他被推翻了那我要問的就是這個陳鵬光律師當時是否有利益衝突應該迴避審查呢我的印象是當初在開會之前有討論這件事情後來學陳姓辦的委員決議不需要利益迴避但是他本身不但他是這個\n台電的訴訟代理人啊然後江雅琦是台電的董事啊陳某關不僅沒有迴避審查還主導審查推翻這個決議然後護航江雅琦非常的離譜啊您支持嗎您支持這樣的做法嗎\n我跟委員報告當時現場的情況當初在討論利益迴避的時候如果我的印象是正確的那個時候所提出來的室友是好像是大學同學還是同班並沒有提到台電我現在告訴你一個是台電董事一個是台電的訴訟代理人你認為這樣沒有利益的衝突嗎\n您的見解呢?如果確實有計劃案件的關聯性的話應該要迴避吧?是好,謝謝,謝謝貝提名人我進入下一個問題前,我想先請教你你認為我國的總統應該是全民的總統、全民的領袖還是特定政黨的超級領袖呢?\n是中華民國的總統當然是國家的總統好謝謝你2009年民進黨黨主席蔡英文公開批評馬英九總統兼任黨主席會讓台灣的憲政進入極大的風險他認為總統不應該身兼黨主席這樣會造成權力分立的失衡蔡英文總統會這樣說是因為我國現在是半總統制\n總統同時兼任黨主席他可以直接領導黨務而且可以掌握整個黨發展的方向總統一個人同時掌握行政權跟立法權會破壞在目前的辦總統制下總統和國會互相制衡的一個關係請問貝提米爾您剛剛也提到您是公法專家嘛您也即將擔任大法官從您對憲法的認知對台灣目前這個辦總統制下蔡英文這樣講對不對\n我的認知至少從憲法的規範角度來講並沒有明文的禁止這個執政黨或是總統不可以兼任黨主席因為這是一個政治事務跟憲法事務的區隔那當然在這邊\n基本上我不反對可以兼任黨主席但是要有憲法上的分際也就是在執行憲法職權時謝謝詹教授 我們等一下繼續討論結果言猶在有蔡英文她在2016年或2020年擔任總統時她都身兼了黨主席那現在的總統賴清德也是身兼了黨主席\n但是不管是馬英九、蔡英文或賴清德任期內憲法都沒有再修正過喔台灣依舊是半總統制那過去被人家討論的或是蔡英文總統講得那麼清楚的憲政危機權利分立失衡難道會因為換人執政換黨執政就不存在或消失了嗎不會不會好 謝謝你\n那所以總統兼任黨主席在台灣目前的這個半總統制度下有權無責嘛有權無責不僅破壞憲政體制造成權力分立的一個失衡更是全面的棄守全民總統的格局成為特定政黨的超級領袖我想要強調你望遠全世界民主程度越低的國家\n他這個權力失衡權力分立失衡的情況是越嚴重的我想請教貝提米您是否同意台灣應該要開啟檢討總統跟政黨主席角色重疊的問題避免讓政黨利益高於或凌駕在國家利益之上呢您同意可以開啟這樣的檢討嗎\n這樣的一個思索的方向當然在我們的整個憲政體制的進展當中我覺得是一個可以思考的命題但是我也跟委員報告在當代的憲政運作民主的體制之下他跟政黨政治是難以脫鉤的我理解那個曾教授就是說\n檢討還是可以啟動的嘛因為還是有人尤其是當事人自己提出這樣的一個見解嘛那如此我覺得才能讓我們好不容易得來的這個自由民主價值繼續深化讓整個國家社會是一個處於一個比較穩定的狀況接下來是國會改革問題\n您的問卷回覆中針對113年憲判制第九號提出不同意見主要有三個部分您的見解跟憲法法庭判決不同分別是總統到立法院國情報告官員缺席被刑時得罰還以及公務員不配合調查的時候得移送監察院這些都被判違憲了但是您問卷中的回覆是認為可以進行核限制的\n解釋本席先肯定您有提出不同意見的勇氣那我再來請教首先是總統的國情報告賴清德在競選的時候說總統是有義務到立法院做國情報告但是憲法法庭卻說總統並無到立法院做國情報告的義務請問被提名人到底是賴總統說錯了還是憲法法庭解釋錯了總統到底有沒有義務到立法院來做國情報告呢\n以目前憲法的規範是沒有是有的沒有義務沒有義務可以到立法院來報告但是您的見解是可以是我的見解是那一個職權行使法可以做合憲性解釋\n是可以做核心的解釋那一個因其實是解釋成不具有拘束性去年國會改革修法如果官員無故缺席被尋或是故意拒打立委的質詢經院會決議可以處以罰款後來被憲法法庭又判違憲了\n所以這個會議就出現行政院秘書長龔明星他缺席委員會然後國安會秘書長吳釗燮甚至兩度缺席但立法院卻對缺席的委員毫無沒有辦法去克責請問被提名人你認為對於官員沒有辦法盡他的政治責任時給予法律的制裁這樣有違憲嗎\n我們在司法院釋字585號的解釋裡面當初大法官的判決是肯認\n對於不遵守違反國會調查權跟質詢權的官員是可以以行政裁罰的方式因為這是確保調查權有效實施的附屬權利\n其實民進黨在野的時候他非常支持國會要有聽證調查權那去年國會改革的修法也賦予立法院調查權而且對於不配合調查的機關政府機關或是公務員可以移送監察院進行糾正糾舉或彈劾\n但這個部分竟然也被判違憲了您在書面回覆有提到說認為這個修法可以解讀成是對機關或是公務人員為師的一個檢舉那促使監察權的這個職權發動而已應該沒有違憲可不可以請你稍微再說明一下\n這個在憲判第九號的解釋理由書大法官有做一個說明他說即使是檢舉也會造成憲政機關之間的一個可能是恐怖平衡的失衡\n不過我個人認為這個當然作為有權解釋我尊重憲判的見解但是我個人認為這個部分其實就是一種檢舉促使有權機關去發動他的職權\n謝謝您因為您在書面這樣回答我也希望大家能夠聽到您公開的一個說明那我再請教貝提敏人根據我國憲政體制下的全職全立分立制度地方政府在自治事項上具有一定程度的自主性中央政府應該是秉持輔導性的原則不要輕易的介入或否決地方的立法\n然而台中市政府依生煤自治條例開罰中火超量使用生煤一案中卻遭行政院以部分條文違反空污法為由 橫告無效當地方政府提起行政訴訟的時候最高行政法院也認為\n應由憲法法庭來解釋而不提供實質救濟也就是中央一紙函告那地方政府就只能吞下去只能接受您認為這樣符合憲法中保障的地方自治跟垂直分權的原則嗎如果我的資訊沒有錯誤這個案件應該目前有申請憲法訴訟有沒有受理我不確定\n所以以下我只能做一般式的認證我想請問台中市政府他更嚴格的一個環境保護開發中國是否也屬於地方自治合理的一個範疇呢至少就空汙而言我個人的基本立場是地方\n並不完全沒有權限空屋這個防治的環境保護本來就是應該一個因地制宜的一個做法可是當時這個這個台中市政府依法開罰中火這個一千八百萬元結果當時環保署禁制撤銷罰單喔那台北這個高層環環境部是沒有權限這樣做的啦我覺得現在是進行中那我想我最後要告訴\n被提名人就說大法官本來就是一個獨立的標杆但大法官做出裁決說應該要秉持公正跟獨立超然的精神請問你,你有這個信心跟決心當你成為大法官之後,您可以超然獨立的行使你的職權嗎?好,謝謝陳委員,謝謝被提名人的答詢\n蘇巧慧委員之詢問已書面提出列入紀錄刊登公報下一位請陳玉珍委員詢問\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:04.232 --> 00:08.457\n謝謝主席有請備體名人曾教授請備體名人答詢委員好\n\n00:17.762 --> 00:35.821\n背題裡面詹教授您好我想先請你看兩張圖這兩張圖都是來自內政部跟主計總處的官方數據左邊這張圖告訴我們從2020年開始台灣就進入人口的負成長也就是說出生的人數遠低於\n\n00:36.842 --> 01:01.684\n死亡的人數那右邊這張圖是告訴我們過去十年來從2015年出生人口數從22萬、21萬一直到去年的農年13.8萬那今年上半年現在是6.6萬預期不會超過13萬因此生育問題不再是某一些人選擇要不要生育的問題\n\n01:02.845 --> 01:23.588\n我覺得是整個社會能不能生有沒有辦法生的一個結構性的困境我想請教被提名人當自然生育沒有辦法去支撐世代交替的時候例如有人因為疾病因為器官缺損等等即便他有胚胎也沒有辦法植入\n\n01:24.930 --> 01:44.245\n所以該思考的問題是不是國家應該要有義務給予更多元更可行的一條生育路徑而不是一味的去禁止它所以首先我想跟你談的就是憲法下的生育自主跟家庭形成的這樣的一個保障\n\n01:45.406 --> 02:12.791\n您在書面意見中有提及代理育母制度不再是社會上極少數族群的期盼願望或是需求而已而是當代社會環境下地球公民已經開始要面臨的共通問題且代孕的急迫性與成熟度在立法政策上逐漸提升本席非常認同您的見解雖然您認為目前尚未形成社會共識還需要進一步觀察進展但是請問您是否同意\n\n02:13.271 --> 02:36.898\n如果社會共識永遠無法達成其實我不知道世界上有沒有所謂的共識社會共識如果永遠無法自然形成社會共識那您是否同意國家應該要積極扮演協助制度化的一個這樣的角色國家是不是有義務要去建構有效監督的一個法治的一個選項請貝提琳回答\n\n02:37.779 --> 02:53.789\n好謝謝委員您的提問陳如我在回覆民眾黨黨團的問卷裡面所表示的立場我是支持在目前少子化或者是委員您剛所提到的諸多因素\n\n02:54.788 --> 03:15.832\n之下當生育自然的生育不再具有可能性的時候應該容許有多元的選擇路徑那我也補充說明我在裡面會提到社會共識其實是針對代理孕母裡面孕母\n\n03:16.809 --> 03:43.267\n跟子女之間有血緣的這一個部分但是我的立場不是說一定要有共識才可以立法我瞭解等一下我會再繼續請教您這個部分根據聯合國2024年的世界生育報告台灣去年的總生育率是全世界倒數前幾名只有0.86從生不如死的這個數據來看生育就不是個人選擇問題現在已經進入台灣社會的一個\n\n03:44.588 --> 04:00.591\n人口危機跟公共政策請問您是否同意國家有必要重新對我們的人工生殖法的部分就是全面禁止代孕的部分要重新檢討來因應人民有生育自主跟家庭形成的一個保障\n\n04:02.081 --> 04:29.623\n來檢討這個好謝謝那您在書面回覆也提到剛剛你剛剛要解釋的話待遇若涉及人工受精模式會涉及親子關係跟奴隸關係的爭議會比較大需要特別審慎那我這裡要要說的就是說本黨所提供提出來的這個人工生殖法的修法版本並沒有納入人工受精這個待遇模式喔而是限定在試管嬰兒胚胎植入的模式那請問你\n\n04:30.524 --> 04:44.843\n這樣是不是比較符合比例原則跟基本權的保障也比較合乎這個憲法的期待呢是因為它的爭議性比較少立法難度比較低所以您是支持這樣的一個版本是的謝謝\n\n04:47.061 --> 05:12.930\n目前人工生殖法第11條採的是正面表列規定只有符合不孕症跟重大遺傳性疾病的情況的夫妻而且一方至少要具備健康的生殖細胞才能夠進行人工生殖也就是說一對合法的夫妻即便他們經過醫師的專業評估認為適合用試管胚胎來進行待遇也不得為之\n\n05:14.190 --> 05:37.735\n那現行的法也未開放任何形態的一個代孕技術使得醫療機構面對這樣的個案或這樣的病人的時候他們因為法律的障礙不敢去施作那您認為這樣是不是可能過度排除了某些其他有需求的族群例如卵巢摘除、子宮摘除這是否構成對生育自主其實是有不合理的一個差別代孕呢\n\n05:39.231 --> 05:59.228\n我是支持在這樣的一個方案底下將代理育母制度於納入法律的明文肯認感謝貝提米人那面對節節上升社會需求嘛最近我們看到的是民進黨政府在待遇議題上是以拖待變先騙再說啦一再用脫鉤\n\n06:00.709 --> 06:19.492\n為藉口其實根本想放手那即便國際間現在已經有數十個國家他是在嚴格監管條件下允許特定形式的一個代孕那也有很多篇已經發表了這個實證醫學的研究顯示只要在妥善的支持跟規範下有代孕媽媽所生出來的兒童其實在\n\n06:20.392 --> 06:43.385\n在社會跟心理的發展上它都沒有在統計學具有意義的一個負面的影響這是有證據的那另外我要談的就是說針對代孕可能造成的剝削的這個部分的討論第三屆國大代表那個莊盛榮律師他有指出合法化不等於放任喔相反的因為代孕具有爭議性更需要法律制度來納入專業審查醫療安全\n\n06:46.066 --> 07:07.455\n還有這個心理評估跟契約的保障能夠讓守護每一方的這個權利讓孩子擁有完整的法律的這個保護跟這個家庭的支持如果繼續封鎖這條路大禮物不會消失而且會進入更黑暗更危險更不正義請問被提名的您贊同這樣的說法嗎\n\n07:08.910 --> 07:34.317\n我贊成在代理育母的議題上面導政是優於目前的意志我的理由在於或許目前在某些團體他會擔心代理育母制度的導入會違反人性尊嚴也就是所謂的將子宮給工具化我個人基本的立場是\n\n07:36.161 --> 08:02.997\n在這樣的一個代理育母的合法化的情況之下我們其實是可以透過法治的設計去免除這個疑慮謝謝貝提名人因為幾十個國家都有了我們是可以來規範接下來我要請教貝提名人在江雅琦教授的這個學位造假的學術論理案您是否有參與出審審查工作並且擔任副召集人請你回答是或不是是\n\n08:03.997 --> 08:21.249\n那在2021年11月出審審查小組認定江雅琪連續9年她在申請科技部相關的文件上她載入或使人登載法學博士學位造假虛構不存在的一個博士學位名稱\n\n08:22.430 --> 08:40.051\n這個情節嚴重的影響科技部審查的判斷而且是資源分配的公正問題所以當時的這個小組他一致決議是停權三年等處分請問是不是有這件事情您是否支持或同意這樣的一個決議內容\n\n08:41.994 --> 09:00.868\n我是學倫小組的一個成員之一也是代表學門進入到誠信班確實有這樣的一個決議跟內容你也確實擔任副召集人那這個決議也是大家的共識那江雅琪當時是台電董事喔你們當初書審小組做出的這樣的建議卻在學倫審議會上\n\n09:03.888 --> 09:23.938\n被台電的訴訟代理人萬國法律事務所陳鵬光律師主導推翻了這樣結果你能接受嗎當初我在國科會的誠信辦代表學門去做陳述意見的事我有\n\n09:25.374 --> 09:51.856\n堅決的表達學門的立場但是他被推翻了嘛他被推翻了那我要問的就是這個陳鵬光律師當時是否有利益衝突應該迴避審查呢我的印象是當初在開會之前有討論這件事情後來學陳姓辦的委員決議不需要利益迴避但是他本身不但他是這個\n\n09:53.598 --> 10:08.650\n台電的訴訟代理人啊然後江雅琦是台電的董事啊陳某關不僅沒有迴避審查還主導審查推翻這個決議然後護航江雅琦非常的離譜啊您支持嗎您支持這樣的做法嗎\n\n10:09.150 --> 10:35.640\n我跟委員報告當時現場的情況當初在討論利益迴避的時候如果我的印象是正確的那個時候所提出來的室友是好像是大學同學還是同班並沒有提到台電我現在告訴你一個是台電董事一個是台電的訴訟代理人你認為這樣沒有利益的衝突嗎\n\n10:36.943 --> 10:56.690\n您的見解呢?如果確實有計劃案件的關聯性的話應該要迴避吧?是好,謝謝,謝謝貝提名人我進入下一個問題前,我想先請教你你認為我國的總統應該是全民的總統、全民的領袖還是特定政黨的超級領袖呢?\n\n10:57.450 --> 11:18.689\n是中華民國的總統當然是國家的總統好謝謝你2009年民進黨黨主席蔡英文公開批評馬英九總統兼任黨主席會讓台灣的憲政進入極大的風險他認為總統不應該身兼黨主席這樣會造成權力分立的失衡蔡英文總統會這樣說是因為我國現在是半總統制\n\n11:22.272 --> 11:49.340\n總統同時兼任黨主席他可以直接領導黨務而且可以掌握整個黨發展的方向總統一個人同時掌握行政權跟立法權會破壞在目前的辦總統制下總統和國會互相制衡的一個關係請問貝提米爾您剛剛也提到您是公法專家嘛您也即將擔任大法官從您對憲法的認知對台灣目前這個辦總統制下蔡英文這樣講對不對\n\n11:52.269 --> 12:10.720\n我的認知至少從憲法的規範角度來講並沒有明文的禁止這個執政黨或是總統不可以兼任黨主席因為這是一個政治事務跟憲法事務的區隔那當然在這邊\n\n12:12.583 --> 12:35.351\n基本上我不反對可以兼任黨主席但是要有憲法上的分際也就是在執行憲法職權時謝謝詹教授我們等一下繼續討論結果言猶在有蔡英文她在2016年或2020年擔任總統時她都身兼了黨主席那現在的總統賴清德也是身兼了黨主席\n\n12:35.911 --> 12:58.508\n但是不管是馬英九、蔡英文或賴清德任期內憲法都沒有再修正過喔台灣依舊是半總統制那過去被人家討論的或是蔡英文總統講得那麼清楚的憲政危機權利分立失衡難道會因為換人執政換黨執政就不存在或消失了嗎不會不會好謝謝你\n\n13:00.558 --> 13:24.753\n那所以總統兼任黨主席在台灣目前的這個半總統制度下有權無責嘛有權無責不僅破壞憲政體制造成權力分立的一個失衡更是全面的棄守全民總統的格局成為特定政黨的超級領袖我想要強調你望遠全世界民主程度越低的國家\n\n13:25.693 --> 13:47.079\n他這個權力失衡權力分立失衡的情況是越嚴重的我想請教貝提米您是否同意台灣應該要開啟檢討總統跟政黨主席角色重疊的問題避免讓政黨利益高於或凌駕在國家利益之上呢您同意可以開啟這樣的檢討嗎\n\n13:50.345 --> 14:18.054\n這樣的一個思索的方向當然在我們的整個憲政體制的進展當中我覺得是一個可以思考的命題但是我也跟委員報告在當代的憲政運作民主的體制之下他跟政黨政治是難以脫鉤的我理解那個曾教授就是說\n\n14:20.296 --> 14:36.001\n檢討還是可以啟動的嘛因為還是有人尤其是當事人自己提出這樣的一個見解嘛那如此我覺得才能讓我們好不容易得來的這個自由民主價值繼續深化讓整個國家社會是一個處於一個比較穩定的狀況接下來是國會改革問題\n\n14:36.741 --> 15:01.129\n您的問卷回覆中針對113年憲判制第九號提出不同意見主要有三個部分您的見解跟憲法法庭判決不同分別是總統到立法院國情報告官員缺席被刑時得罰還以及公務員不配合調查的時候得移送監察院這些都被判違憲了但是您問卷中的回覆是認為可以進行核限制的\n\n15:01.829 --> 15:29.970\n解釋本席先肯定您有提出不同意見的勇氣那我再來請教首先是總統的國情報告賴清德在競選的時候說總統是有義務到立法院做國情報告但是憲法法庭卻說總統並無到立法院做國情報告的義務請問被提名人到底是賴總統說錯了還是憲法法庭解釋錯了總統到底有沒有義務到立法院來做國情報告呢\n\n15:30.745 --> 15:47.963\n以目前憲法的規範是沒有是有的沒有義務沒有義務可以到立法院來報告但是您的見解是可以是我的見解是那一個職權行使法可以做合憲性解釋\n\n15:48.644 --> 16:05.539\n是可以做核心的解釋那一個因其實是解釋成不具有拘束性去年國會改革修法如果官員無故缺席被尋或是故意拒打立委的質詢經院會決議可以處以罰款後來被憲法法庭又判違憲了\n\n16:06.660 --> 16:28.045\n所以這個會議就出現行政院秘書長龔明星他缺席委員會然後國安會秘書長吳釗燮甚至兩度缺席但立法院卻對缺席的委員毫無沒有辦法去克責請問被提名人你認為對於官員沒有辦法盡他的政治責任時給予法律的制裁這樣有違憲嗎\n\n16:31.067 --> 16:41.864\n我們在司法院釋字585號的解釋裡面當初大法官的判決是肯認\n\n16:43.649 --> 16:58.565\n對於不遵守違反國會調查權跟質詢權的官員是可以以行政裁罰的方式因為這是確保調查權有效實施的附屬權利\n\n17:01.247 --> 17:15.501\n其實民進黨在野的時候他非常支持國會要有聽證調查權那去年國會改革的修法也賦予立法院調查權而且對於不配合調查的機關政府機關或是公務員可以移送監察院進行糾正糾舉或彈劾\n\n17:17.282 --> 17:33.157\n但這個部分竟然也被判違憲了您在書面回覆有提到說認為這個修法可以解讀成是對機關或是公務人員為師的一個檢舉那促使監察權的這個職權發動而已應該沒有違憲可不可以請你稍微再說明一下\n\n17:34.529 --> 17:50.214\n這個在憲判第九號的解釋理由書大法官有做一個說明他說即使是檢舉也會造成憲政機關之間的一個可能是恐怖平衡的失衡\n\n17:51.194 --> 18:05.043\n不過我個人認為這個當然作為有權解釋我尊重憲判的見解但是我個人認為這個部分其實就是一種檢舉促使有權機關去發動他的職權\n\n18:07.624 --> 18:29.256\n謝謝您因為您在書面這樣回答我也希望大家能夠聽到您公開的一個說明那我再請教貝提敏人根據我國憲政體制下的全職全立分立制度地方政府在自治事項上具有一定程度的自主性中央政府應該是秉持輔導性的原則不要輕易的介入或否決地方的立法\n\n18:29.796 --> 18:46.705\n然而台中市政府依生煤自治條例開罰中火超量使用生煤一案中卻遭行政院以部分條文違反空污法為由橫告無效當地方政府提起行政訴訟的時候最高行政法院也認為\n\n18:48.065 --> 19:13.962\n應由憲法法庭來解釋而不提供實質救濟也就是中央一紙函告那地方政府就只能吞下去只能接受您認為這樣符合憲法中保障的地方自治跟垂直分權的原則嗎如果我的資訊沒有錯誤這個案件應該目前有申請憲法訴訟有沒有受理我不確定\n\n19:14.932 --> 19:32.569\n所以以下我只能做一般式的認證我想請問台中市政府他更嚴格的一個環境保護開發中國是否也屬於地方自治合理的一個範疇呢至少就空汙而言我個人的基本立場是地方\n\n19:34.230 --> 19:59.901\n並不完全沒有權限空屋這個防治的環境保護本來就是應該一個因地制宜的一個做法可是當時這個這個台中市政府依法開罰中火這個一千八百萬元結果當時環保署禁制撤銷罰單喔那台北這個高層環環境部是沒有權限這樣做的啦我覺得現在是進行中那我想我最後要告訴\n\n20:00.781 --> 20:18.644\n被提名人就說大法官本來就是一個獨立的標杆但大法官做出裁決說應該要秉持公正跟獨立超然的精神請問你,你有這個信心跟決心當你成為大法官之後,您可以超然獨立的行使你的職權嗎?好,謝謝陳委員,謝謝被提名人的答詢\n\n20:32.542 --> 20:39.420\n蘇巧慧委員之詢問已書面提出列入紀錄刊登公報下一位請陳玉珍委員詢問\n\n","segments":[{"start":4.232,"end":8.457,"text":"謝謝主席 有請備體名人曾教授請備體名人答詢委員好"},{"start":17.762,"end":35.821,"text":"背題裡面詹教授您好我想先請你看兩張圖這兩張圖都是來自內政部跟主計總處的官方數據左邊這張圖告訴我們從2020年開始台灣就進入人口的負成長也就是說出生的人數遠低於"},{"start":36.842,"end":61.684,"text":"死亡的人數那右邊這張圖是告訴我們過去十年來從2015年出生人口數從22萬、21萬一直到去年的農年13.8萬那今年上半年現在是6.6萬預期不會超過13萬因此生育問題不再是某一些人選擇要不要生育的問題"},{"start":62.845,"end":83.588,"text":"我覺得是整個社會能不能生有沒有辦法生的一個結構性的困境我想請教被提名人當自然生育沒有辦法去支撐世代交替的時候例如有人因為疾病因為器官缺損等等即便他有胚胎也沒有辦法植入"},{"start":84.93,"end":104.245,"text":"所以該思考的問題是不是國家應該要有義務給予更多元更可行的一條生育路徑而不是一味的去禁止它所以首先我想跟你談的就是憲法下的生育自主跟家庭形成的這樣的一個保障"},{"start":105.406,"end":132.791,"text":"您在書面意見中有提及代理育母制度不再是社會上極少數族群的期盼願望或是需求而已而是當代社會環境下地球公民已經開始要面臨的共通問題且代孕的急迫性與成熟度在立法政策上逐漸提升本席非常認同您的見解雖然您認為目前尚未形成社會共識還需要進一步觀察進展但是請問您是否同意"},{"start":133.271,"end":156.898,"text":"如果社會共識永遠無法達成其實我不知道世界上有沒有所謂的共識社會共識如果永遠無法自然形成社會共識那您是否同意國家應該要積極扮演協助制度化的一個這樣的角色國家是不是有義務要去建構有效監督的一個法治的一個選項請貝提琳回答"},{"start":157.779,"end":173.789,"text":"好 謝謝委員您的提問陳如我在回覆民眾黨黨團的問卷裡面所表示的立場我是支持在目前少子化或者是委員您剛所提到的諸多因素"},{"start":174.788,"end":195.832,"text":"之下當生育自然的生育不再具有可能性的時候應該容許有多元的選擇路徑那我也補充說明我在裡面會提到社會共識其實是針對代理孕母裡面孕母"},{"start":196.809,"end":223.267,"text":"跟子女之間有血緣的這一個部分但是我的立場不是說一定要有共識才可以立法我瞭解 等一下我會再繼續請教您這個部分根據聯合國2024年的世界生育報告台灣去年的總生育率是全世界倒數前幾名只有0.86從生不如死的這個數據來看生育就不是個人選擇問題現在已經進入台灣社會的一個"},{"start":224.588,"end":240.591,"text":"人口危機跟公共政策請問您是否同意國家有必要重新對我們的人工生殖法的部分就是全面禁止代孕的部分要重新檢討來因應人民有生育自主跟家庭形成的一個保障"},{"start":242.081,"end":269.623,"text":"來檢討這個好謝謝那您在書面回覆也提到剛剛你剛剛要解釋的話待遇若涉及人工受精模式會涉及親子關係跟奴隸關係的爭議會比較大需要特別審慎那我這裡要要說的就是說本黨所提供提出來的這個人工生殖法的修法版本並沒有納入人工受精這個待遇模式喔而是限定在試管嬰兒胚胎植入的模式那請問你"},{"start":270.524,"end":284.843,"text":"這樣是不是比較符合比例原則跟基本權的保障也比較合乎這個憲法的期待呢是 因為它的爭議性比較少立法難度比較低所以您是支持這樣的一個版本是的謝謝"},{"start":287.061,"end":312.93,"text":"目前人工生殖法第11條採的是正面表列規定只有符合不孕症跟重大遺傳性疾病的情況的夫妻而且一方至少要具備健康的生殖細胞才能夠進行人工生殖也就是說一對合法的夫妻即便他們經過醫師的專業評估認為適合用試管胚胎來進行待遇也不得為之"},{"start":314.19,"end":337.735,"text":"那現行的法也未開放任何形態的一個代孕技術使得醫療機構面對這樣的個案或這樣的病人的時候他們因為法律的障礙不敢去施作那您認為這樣是不是可能過度排除了某些其他有需求的族群例如卵巢摘除、子宮摘除這是否構成對生育自主其實是有不合理的一個差別代孕呢"},{"start":339.231,"end":359.228,"text":"我是支持在這樣的一個方案底下將代理育母制度於納入法律的明文肯認感謝貝提米人那面對節節上升社會需求嘛最近我們看到的是民進黨政府在待遇議題上是以拖待變先騙再說啦一再用脫鉤"},{"start":360.709,"end":379.492,"text":"為藉口其實根本想放手那即便國際間現在已經有數十個國家他是在嚴格監管條件下允許特定形式的一個代孕那也有很多篇已經發表了這個實證醫學的研究顯示只要在妥善的支持跟規範下有代孕媽媽所生出來的兒童其實在"},{"start":380.392,"end":403.385,"text":"在社會跟心理的發展上它都沒有在統計學具有意義的一個負面的影響這是有證據的那另外我要談的就是說針對代孕可能造成的剝削的這個部分的討論第三屆國大代表那個莊盛榮律師他有指出合法化不等於放任喔相反的因為代孕具有爭議性更需要法律制度來納入專業審查醫療安全"},{"start":406.066,"end":427.455,"text":"還有這個心理評估跟契約的保障能夠讓守護每一方的這個權利讓孩子擁有完整的法律的這個保護跟這個家庭的支持如果繼續封鎖這條路大禮物不會消失而且會進入更黑暗更危險更不正義請問被提名的您贊同這樣的說法嗎"},{"start":428.91,"end":454.317,"text":"我贊成在代理育母的議題上面導政是優於目前的意志我的理由在於或許目前在某些團體他會擔心代理育母制度的導入會違反人性尊嚴也就是所謂的將子宮給工具化我個人基本的立場是"},{"start":456.161,"end":482.997,"text":"在這樣的一個代理育母的合法化的情況之下我們其實是可以透過法治的設計去免除這個疑慮謝謝貝提名人因為幾十個國家都有了我們是可以來規範接下來我要請教貝提名人在江雅琦教授的這個學位造假的學術論理案您是否有參與出審審查工作並且擔任副召集人請你回答是或不是是"},{"start":483.997,"end":501.249,"text":"那在2021年11月出審審查小組認定江雅琪連續9年她在申請科技部相關的文件上她載入或使人登載法學博士學位造假虛構不存在的一個博士學位名稱"},{"start":502.43,"end":520.051,"text":"這個情節嚴重的影響科技部審查的判斷而且是資源分配的公正問題所以當時的這個小組他一致決議是停權三年等處分請問是不是有這件事情您是否支持或同意這樣的一個決議內容"},{"start":521.994,"end":540.868,"text":"我是學倫小組的一個成員之一也是代表學門進入到誠信班確實有這樣的一個決議跟內容你也確實擔任副召集人那這個決議也是大家的共識那江雅琪當時是台電董事喔你們當初書審小組做出的這樣的建議卻在學倫審議會上"},{"start":543.888,"end":563.938,"text":"被台電的訴訟代理人萬國法律事務所陳鵬光律師主導推翻了這樣結果你能接受嗎當初我在國科會的誠信辦代表學門去做陳述意見的事我有"},{"start":565.374,"end":591.856,"text":"堅決的表達學門的立場但是他被推翻了嘛他被推翻了那我要問的就是這個陳鵬光律師當時是否有利益衝突應該迴避審查呢我的印象是當初在開會之前有討論這件事情後來學陳姓辦的委員決議不需要利益迴避但是他本身不但他是這個"},{"start":593.598,"end":608.65,"text":"台電的訴訟代理人啊然後江雅琦是台電的董事啊陳某關不僅沒有迴避審查還主導審查推翻這個決議然後護航江雅琦非常的離譜啊您支持嗎您支持這樣的做法嗎"},{"start":609.15,"end":635.64,"text":"我跟委員報告當時現場的情況當初在討論利益迴避的時候如果我的印象是正確的那個時候所提出來的室友是好像是大學同學還是同班並沒有提到台電我現在告訴你一個是台電董事一個是台電的訴訟代理人你認為這樣沒有利益的衝突嗎"},{"start":636.943,"end":656.69,"text":"您的見解呢?如果確實有計劃案件的關聯性的話應該要迴避吧?是好,謝謝,謝謝貝提名人我進入下一個問題前,我想先請教你你認為我國的總統應該是全民的總統、全民的領袖還是特定政黨的超級領袖呢?"},{"start":657.45,"end":678.689,"text":"是中華民國的總統當然是國家的總統好謝謝你2009年民進黨黨主席蔡英文公開批評馬英九總統兼任黨主席會讓台灣的憲政進入極大的風險他認為總統不應該身兼黨主席這樣會造成權力分立的失衡蔡英文總統會這樣說是因為我國現在是半總統制"},{"start":682.272,"end":709.34,"text":"總統同時兼任黨主席他可以直接領導黨務而且可以掌握整個黨發展的方向總統一個人同時掌握行政權跟立法權會破壞在目前的辦總統制下總統和國會互相制衡的一個關係請問貝提米爾您剛剛也提到您是公法專家嘛您也即將擔任大法官從您對憲法的認知對台灣目前這個辦總統制下蔡英文這樣講對不對"},{"start":712.269,"end":730.72,"text":"我的認知至少從憲法的規範角度來講並沒有明文的禁止這個執政黨或是總統不可以兼任黨主席因為這是一個政治事務跟憲法事務的區隔那當然在這邊"},{"start":732.583,"end":755.351,"text":"基本上我不反對可以兼任黨主席但是要有憲法上的分際也就是在執行憲法職權時謝謝詹教授 我們等一下繼續討論結果言猶在有蔡英文她在2016年或2020年擔任總統時她都身兼了黨主席那現在的總統賴清德也是身兼了黨主席"},{"start":755.911,"end":778.508,"text":"但是不管是馬英九、蔡英文或賴清德任期內憲法都沒有再修正過喔台灣依舊是半總統制那過去被人家討論的或是蔡英文總統講得那麼清楚的憲政危機權利分立失衡難道會因為換人執政換黨執政就不存在或消失了嗎不會不會好 謝謝你"},{"start":780.558,"end":804.753,"text":"那所以總統兼任黨主席在台灣目前的這個半總統制度下有權無責嘛有權無責不僅破壞憲政體制造成權力分立的一個失衡更是全面的棄守全民總統的格局成為特定政黨的超級領袖我想要強調你望遠全世界民主程度越低的國家"},{"start":805.693,"end":827.079,"text":"他這個權力失衡權力分立失衡的情況是越嚴重的我想請教貝提米您是否同意台灣應該要開啟檢討總統跟政黨主席角色重疊的問題避免讓政黨利益高於或凌駕在國家利益之上呢您同意可以開啟這樣的檢討嗎"},{"start":830.345,"end":858.054,"text":"這樣的一個思索的方向當然在我們的整個憲政體制的進展當中我覺得是一個可以思考的命題但是我也跟委員報告在當代的憲政運作民主的體制之下他跟政黨政治是難以脫鉤的我理解那個曾教授就是說"},{"start":860.296,"end":876.001,"text":"檢討還是可以啟動的嘛因為還是有人尤其是當事人自己提出這樣的一個見解嘛那如此我覺得才能讓我們好不容易得來的這個自由民主價值繼續深化讓整個國家社會是一個處於一個比較穩定的狀況接下來是國會改革問題"},{"start":876.741,"end":901.129,"text":"您的問卷回覆中針對113年憲判制第九號提出不同意見主要有三個部分您的見解跟憲法法庭判決不同分別是總統到立法院國情報告官員缺席被刑時得罰還以及公務員不配合調查的時候得移送監察院這些都被判違憲了但是您問卷中的回覆是認為可以進行核限制的"},{"start":901.829,"end":929.97,"text":"解釋本席先肯定您有提出不同意見的勇氣那我再來請教首先是總統的國情報告賴清德在競選的時候說總統是有義務到立法院做國情報告但是憲法法庭卻說總統並無到立法院做國情報告的義務請問被提名人到底是賴總統說錯了還是憲法法庭解釋錯了總統到底有沒有義務到立法院來做國情報告呢"},{"start":930.745,"end":947.963,"text":"以目前憲法的規範是沒有是有的沒有義務沒有義務可以到立法院來報告但是您的見解是可以是我的見解是那一個職權行使法可以做合憲性解釋"},{"start":948.644,"end":965.539,"text":"是可以做核心的解釋那一個因其實是解釋成不具有拘束性去年國會改革修法如果官員無故缺席被尋或是故意拒打立委的質詢經院會決議可以處以罰款後來被憲法法庭又判違憲了"},{"start":966.66,"end":988.045,"text":"所以這個會議就出現行政院秘書長龔明星他缺席委員會然後國安會秘書長吳釗燮甚至兩度缺席但立法院卻對缺席的委員毫無沒有辦法去克責請問被提名人你認為對於官員沒有辦法盡他的政治責任時給予法律的制裁這樣有違憲嗎"},{"start":991.067,"end":1001.864,"text":"我們在司法院釋字585號的解釋裡面當初大法官的判決是肯認"},{"start":1003.649,"end":1018.565,"text":"對於不遵守違反國會調查權跟質詢權的官員是可以以行政裁罰的方式因為這是確保調查權有效實施的附屬權利"},{"start":1021.247,"end":1035.501,"text":"其實民進黨在野的時候他非常支持國會要有聽證調查權那去年國會改革的修法也賦予立法院調查權而且對於不配合調查的機關政府機關或是公務員可以移送監察院進行糾正糾舉或彈劾"},{"start":1037.282,"end":1053.157,"text":"但這個部分竟然也被判違憲了您在書面回覆有提到說認為這個修法可以解讀成是對機關或是公務人員為師的一個檢舉那促使監察權的這個職權發動而已應該沒有違憲可不可以請你稍微再說明一下"},{"start":1054.529,"end":1070.214,"text":"這個在憲判第九號的解釋理由書大法官有做一個說明他說即使是檢舉也會造成憲政機關之間的一個可能是恐怖平衡的失衡"},{"start":1071.194,"end":1085.043,"text":"不過我個人認為這個當然作為有權解釋我尊重憲判的見解但是我個人認為這個部分其實就是一種檢舉促使有權機關去發動他的職權"},{"start":1087.624,"end":1109.256,"text":"謝謝您因為您在書面這樣回答我也希望大家能夠聽到您公開的一個說明那我再請教貝提敏人根據我國憲政體制下的全職全立分立制度地方政府在自治事項上具有一定程度的自主性中央政府應該是秉持輔導性的原則不要輕易的介入或否決地方的立法"},{"start":1109.796,"end":1126.705,"text":"然而台中市政府依生煤自治條例開罰中火超量使用生煤一案中卻遭行政院以部分條文違反空污法為由 橫告無效當地方政府提起行政訴訟的時候最高行政法院也認為"},{"start":1128.065,"end":1153.962,"text":"應由憲法法庭來解釋而不提供實質救濟也就是中央一紙函告那地方政府就只能吞下去只能接受您認為這樣符合憲法中保障的地方自治跟垂直分權的原則嗎如果我的資訊沒有錯誤這個案件應該目前有申請憲法訴訟有沒有受理我不確定"},{"start":1154.932,"end":1172.569,"text":"所以以下我只能做一般式的認證我想請問台中市政府他更嚴格的一個環境保護開發中國是否也屬於地方自治合理的一個範疇呢至少就空汙而言我個人的基本立場是地方"},{"start":1174.23,"end":1199.901,"text":"並不完全沒有權限空屋這個防治的環境保護本來就是應該一個因地制宜的一個做法可是當時這個這個台中市政府依法開罰中火這個一千八百萬元結果當時環保署禁制撤銷罰單喔那台北這個高層環環境部是沒有權限這樣做的啦我覺得現在是進行中那我想我最後要告訴"},{"start":1200.781,"end":1218.644,"text":"被提名人就說大法官本來就是一個獨立的標杆但大法官做出裁決說應該要秉持公正跟獨立超然的精神請問你,你有這個信心跟決心當你成為大法官之後,您可以超然獨立的行使你的職權嗎?好,謝謝陳委員,謝謝被提名人的答詢"},{"start":1232.542,"end":1239.42,"text":"蘇巧慧委員之詢問已書面提出列入紀錄刊登公報下一位請陳玉珍委員詢問"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":16,"blocks":[["陳委員昭姿：（14時40分）謝謝主席，有請被提名人詹教授。"],["主席：請被提名人答詢。"],["詹鎮榮被提名人：委員好。"],["陳委員昭姿：被提名人詹教授，您好。我想先請你看兩張圖，這兩張圖都是來自內政部跟主計總處的官方數據，左邊這張圖告訴我們，從2020年開始臺灣就進入人口的負成長，也就是說，出生的人數遠低於死亡的人數；右邊這張圖告訴我們，過去十年來，從2015年的出生人口數22萬、21萬，一直到去年（龍年）的13.8萬，今年上半年是6.6萬，預期不會超過13萬。因此生育問題不再是某一些人選擇要不要生的問題，我覺得是整個社會能不能生、有沒有辦法生的一個結構性困境。我想請教被提名人，當自然生育沒有辦法去支撐世代交替的時候，例如有人因為疾病、因為器官缺損等等，即便他有胚胎，也沒有辦法植入啊，所以該思考的問題是不是國家應該要有義務給予一條更多元、更可行的生育路徑，而不是一味的去禁止它？所以首先我想跟你談的就是憲法下的生育自主跟家庭形成的保障。","您在書面意見中有提及，代理孕母制度不再是社會上極少數族群的期盼、願望，或是需求而已，而是當代社會環境下，地球公民已經開始要面臨的共通問題，且代孕的急迫性與成熟度在立法政策上逐漸提升。本席非常認同您的見解，雖然您認為目前尚未形成社會共識，還需要進一步觀察這個進展。其實我不知道世界上有沒有所謂的社會共識，如果永遠無法自然形成社會共識，那您是否同意國家應該積極扮演協助制度化的角色？國家是不是有義務要去建構一個有效監督的法制選項？請被提名人回答。"],["詹鎮榮被提名人：謝謝委員的提問，誠如我在回覆民眾黨黨團的問卷裡面所表示的立場，我是支持在目前少子化或者是委員剛剛所提到的諸多因素之下，當自然的生育不再具有可能性的時候，應該容許有多元的選擇路徑。我也補充說明，我在裡面會提到社會共識，其實是針對代理孕母裡面，孕母跟子女之間有血緣的這個部分，但是我的立場不是說一定要有共識才可以立法。"],["陳委員昭姿：好，謝謝詹教授，我了解，等一下我會再繼續請教您這個部分。","根據聯合國2024年的世界生育報告，臺灣去年的總生育率是全世界倒數前幾名，只有0.86。從生不如死的這個數據來看，生育就不是個人選擇的問題，現在已經進入臺灣社會的人口危機跟公共政策。請問您是否同意，國家有必要對我們的人工生殖法中全面禁止代孕的部分重新檢討，來因應人民有生育自主跟家庭形成的保障？"],["詹鎮榮被提名人：我贊同。"],["陳委員昭姿：好，謝謝。您在書面回覆也提到，剛剛你要解釋的，代孕若涉及人工授精模式，涉及親子關係跟倫理關係的爭議會比較大，需要特別審慎。我這裡要說的是，本黨所提出來的人工生殖法修法版本，並沒有納入人工授精這個代理孕母模式，而是限定在試管嬰兒胚胎植入的模式，請問這樣是不是比較符合比例原則跟基本權的保障，也比較合於憲法的期待呢？"],["詹鎮榮被提名人：是，因為它的爭議性比較少，所以立法難度比較低。"],["陳委員昭姿：所以您是支持這樣的版本？"],["詹鎮榮被提名人：是的。"],["陳委員昭姿：好，謝謝。目前人工生殖法第十一條採的是正面表列，規定只有符合不孕症跟重大遺傳性疾病情況的夫妻，而且一方至少要具備健康的生殖細胞，才能夠進行人工生殖。也就是說，一對合法的夫妻，即便他們經過醫師的專業評估，認為適合用試管胚胎來進行代孕，也不得為之。現行法也未開放任何型態的代孕技術，使得醫療機構面對這樣的個案或這樣的病人的時候，他們會因為法律的障礙而不敢去施作。您認為這樣是不是過度排除了某些其他有需求的族群，例如卵巢摘除、子宮摘除的人？這是否構成對生育自主其實是有不合理的差別待遇？"],["詹鎮榮被提名人：我是支持在這樣的方案下，將代理孕母制度予以納入法律的明文肯認……"],["陳委員昭姿：好，感謝被提名人。面對節節上升的社會需求，至今我們看到的是民進黨政府在代孕議題上以拖待變、先騙再說，一再用脫鈎為藉口，其實根本想放手，即便國際間現在已經有數十個國家在嚴格監管條件下允許特定形式的代孕，也有很多篇已經發表實證醫學的研究顯示，只要在妥善的支持跟規範下，由代孕媽媽所生出來的兒童，其實在社會跟心理的發展上，都沒有在統計學上具有有意義的負面影響，這是有證據的。","另外，我要談的就是針對代孕可能造成剝削的討論，第三屆國大代表莊勝榮律師有指出，合法化不等於放任，相反的，正因為代孕具有爭議性，更需要法律制度納入專業審查、醫療安全、心理評估與契約的保障，能夠守護每一方的權利，讓孩子擁有完整的法律保護跟家庭支持，如果繼續封鎖這條路，代理孕母不會消失，而是會進入更黑暗、更危險、更不正義。請問被提名人，您贊同這樣的說法嗎？"],["詹鎮榮被提名人：我贊成在代理孕母的議題上面導正優於目前的抑制，我的理由在於，或許目前某些團體擔心代理孕母制度的導入會違反人性尊嚴，也就是所謂的將子宮給工具化。我個人基本的立場是，在這樣一個代理孕母合法化的情況之下，我們其實是可以透過法制的設計去免除這個疑慮。"],["陳委員昭姿：好，謝謝被提名人，因為幾十個國家都有了，我們可以來規範嘛！","接下來我要請教被提名人，在江雅綺教授學位造假的學術倫理案，您是否有參與初審審查工作並且擔任副召集人？請你回答是或不是。"],["詹鎮榮被提名人：是。"],["陳委員昭姿：在2021年11月，初審審查小組認定江雅綺連續九年在科技部相關的申請文件上，記載或使人登載為法學博士，學位造假、虛構不存在的博士學位名稱，這個情節嚴重影響科技部的審查判斷，而且是資源分配的公正問題，所以當時這個小組一致決議是停權三年等處分，請問是不是有這件事情？"],["詹鎮榮被提名人：是。"],["陳委員昭姿：您是否支持或同意這樣一個決議內容？"],["詹鎮榮被提名人：我是學倫小組的成員之一，也是代表學門進入到誠信辦……"],["陳委員昭姿：好，確實有這樣一個決議跟內容，你也確實擔任副召集人，這個決議也是大家的共識。好，那江雅綺當時是台電董事喔，當初你們初審小組做出這樣的建議，卻在學倫審議會上被台電的訴訟代理人萬國法律事務所陳鵬光律師主導推翻了，這樣的結果你能接受嗎？"],["詹鎮榮被提名人：當初我在國科會的誠信辦代表學門去做陳述意見的時候，我有堅決的表達學門的立場。"],["陳委員昭姿：是，了解，但是它被推翻了嘛！"],["詹鎮榮被提名人：是。"],["陳委員昭姿：它被推翻了！我要問的就是，陳鵬光律師當時是否有利益衝突，應該迴避審查呢？"],["詹鎮榮被提名人：我的印象是，當初在開會之前有討論這件事情，後來誠信辦的委員決議不需要利益迴避。"],["陳委員昭姿：但是他本身是台電的訴訟代理人，江雅綺是台電的董事，陳鵬光律師不僅沒有迴避審查，還主導審查、推翻這個決議，然後護航江雅綺，非常的離譜，您支持嗎？您支持這樣的作法嗎？"],["詹鎮榮被提名人：我跟委員報告當時現場的情況，當初在討論利益迴避的時候，如果我的印象是正確的，那個時候所提出來的事由好像是大學同學還是同班，並沒有提到台電這件事情……"],["陳委員昭姿：好，那被提名人，我現在告訴你，一個是台電董事，一個是台電的訴訟代理人，你們認為這樣沒有利益的衝突嗎？您的見解呢？"],["詹鎮榮被提名人：如果確實有……"],["陳委員昭姿：確實是怎樣？兩個的身分……"],["詹鎮榮被提名人：計畫案件的關聯性……"],["陳委員昭姿：應該要迴避吧？"],["詹鎮榮被提名人：是。"],["陳委員昭姿：好，謝謝，謝謝被提名人。","進入下個問題之前，我想先請教您，您認為我國的總統應該是全民的總統、全民的領袖還是特定政黨的超級領袖呢？你認為？"],["詹鎮榮被提名人：中華民國的總統，當然是國家的總統。"],["陳委員昭姿：好，謝謝你。2009年民進黨黨主席蔡英文公開批評馬英九，說總統兼任黨主席會讓臺灣的憲政面臨極大的風險，他認為總統不應該身兼黨主席，這樣會造成權力分立的失衡。蔡英文總統會這樣說是因為我國現在是半總統制，總統同時兼任黨主席可以直接領導黨務，而且可以掌握整個黨發展的方向。總統一個人同時掌握行政權跟立法權，會破壞在目前的半總統制下，總統和國會互相制衡的關係。請問被提名人，您剛剛也提到您是公法專家，您也即將擔任大法官，從您對憲法的認知，對臺灣目前這個半總統制下，蔡英文這樣講對不對？"],["詹鎮榮被提名人：我的認知，至少從憲法的規範角度來講，並沒有明文禁止執政黨或是總統不可以兼任黨主席，因為這是一個政治事務跟憲法事務的區隔。當然在這邊，基本上我不反對可以兼任黨主席，但是要有憲法上的分際，也就是在執行憲法職權時……"],["陳委員昭姿：好，謝謝詹教授，我們等一下繼續討論。","言猶在耳，結果蔡英文在2016年以及2020年擔任總統時都身兼黨主席，現在的總統賴清德也身兼黨主席，但不管是馬英九、蔡英文或賴清德至今的任期內，憲法都沒有再修正過，臺灣依舊是半總統制。過去被人家討論的，或是蔡英文總統講得那麼清楚的憲政危機，權力分立失衡，難道會因為換人執政、換黨執政就不存在或消失了嗎？"],["詹鎮榮被提名人：不會。"],["陳委員昭姿：不會，好，謝謝你。所以，總統兼任黨主席在臺灣目前的半總統制度下形同有權無責，不僅破壞憲政體制，造成權力分立的失衡，更是全面的棄守全民總統的格局，成為特定政黨的超級領袖。我想要強調，你放眼全世界，民主程度越低的國家，權力分立失衡的情況是越嚴重的。我想請教被提名人，您是否同意，臺灣應該要開啟檢討，檢討總統跟政黨主席角色重疊的問題，避免讓政黨利益高於或凌駕在國家利益之上？您同意可以開啟這樣的檢討嗎？"],["詹鎮榮被提名人：這樣的一個思索的方向，當然在我們整個憲政體制的進展當中，我覺得是一個可以思考的命題。但是我也跟委員報告，在當代憲政運作的民主體制之下，他跟政黨政治是難以脫鈎的。"],["陳委員昭姿：我理解，詹教授，就是說檢討還是可以啟動的嘛？"],["詹鎮榮被提名人：當然。"],["陳委員昭姿：因為還是有人，尤其是當事人自己提出這樣的見解，如此我覺得才能讓我們好不容易得來的自由民主價值繼續深化，讓整個國家社會處於一個比較穩定的狀況。","接下來是國會改革的問題，您的問卷回復中針對113年憲判字第9號提出不同意見，主要有三個部分您的見解跟憲法法庭判決不同，分別是總統到立法院國情報告、官員缺席備詢時得處以罰鍰，以及公務員不配合調查的時候得移送監察院，這些都被判違憲，但是您的問卷回復是認為可以進行合憲性解釋，本席先肯定您有提出不同意見的勇氣。","我再來請教，首先是總統的國情報告，賴清德在競選的時候說，總統有義務到立法院做國情報告，但是憲法法庭卻說，總統並無到立法院做國情報告的義務。請問被提名人，到底是賴總統說錯了？還是憲法法庭解釋錯了？總統到底有沒有義務到立法院來做國情報告呢？"],["詹鎮榮被提名人：以目前憲法的規範是沒有。"],["陳委員昭姿：好，是有的？"],["詹鎮榮被提名人：沒有、沒有義務。"],["陳委員昭姿：沒有義務？"],["詹鎮榮被提名人：他可以到立法院報告。"],["陳委員昭姿：他可以到立法院來報告？"],["詹鎮榮被提名人：是。"],["陳委員昭姿：但是您的見解是認為可以做合憲性解釋？"],["詹鎮榮被提名人：我的見解是那一個職權行使法可以做合憲性解釋。"],["陳委員昭姿：是可以做合憲性解釋。"],["詹鎮榮被提名人：把那一個「應」，其實是解釋成不具有拘束性。"],["陳委員昭姿：好，謝謝被提名人。去年國會改革修法，如果官員無故缺席備詢，或是故意拒答立委的質詢，經院會決議可以處以罰鍰，後來又被憲法法庭判違憲了，所以這個會期就出現行政院秘書長龔明鑫缺席委員會，然後國安會秘書長吳釗燮甚至兩度缺席，但立法院卻沒有辦法對缺席的人課責。請問被提名人，對於官員沒有辦法盡他的政治責任時給予法律的制裁，您認為這樣有違憲嗎？"],["詹鎮榮被提名人：我們在司法院釋字第585號解釋裡面，當初大法官的判決是肯認對於不遵守、違反國會調查權跟質詢權的官員，可以以行政裁罰的方式處理，因為這是確保調查權有效實施的附屬權力。"],["陳委員昭姿：好，謝謝被提名人。你提到了調查權，其實民進黨在野的時候非常支持國會要有聽證調查權，去年國會改革的修法也賦予立法院調查權，而且對於不配合調查的機關、政府機關或是公務員，可以移送監察院進行糾正、糾舉或彈劾，但這個部分竟然也被判違憲。您在書面回復有提到，認為這個修法可以解讀成是對機關或是公務人員違失的一個檢舉，促使監察權的職權發動而已，應該沒有違憲，可不可以請你稍微再說明一下？"],["詹鎮榮被提名人：在憲判第9號的解釋理由書，大法官有做一個說明，他說即使是檢舉，也會造成憲政機關之間的一個……可能是恐怖平衡的失衡，這個當然作為有權解釋，我尊重憲判的見解，但是我個人認為，這個部分其實就是一種檢舉，促使有權機關去發動它的職權。"],["陳委員昭姿：是，謝謝您。因為您在書面這樣回答，我也希望大家能夠聽到您公開的一個說明。","我再請教被提名人，根據我國憲政體制下的垂直權力分立制度，地方政府在自治事項上，具有一定程度的自主性，中央政府應該是秉持輔導性的原則，不要輕易地介入或否決地方的立法。然而，臺中市政府依生煤自治條例開罰中火超量使用生煤一案中，卻遭行政院以部分條文違反空污法為由，函告無效。當地方政府提起行政訴訟的時候，最高行政法院也認為應由憲法法庭解釋，而不提供實質救濟。也就是中央一紙函告，地方政府就只能吞下去、只能接受，您認為這樣符合憲法中保障的地方自治跟垂直分權的原則嗎？"],["詹鎮榮被提名人：如果我的資訊沒有錯誤，這個案件目前應該有聲請憲法訴訟，有沒有受理我不確定，所以以下我只能做一般式的原則……"],["陳委員昭姿：還在進行中。我想請問，臺中市政府依更嚴格的環境保護開罰中火，是否也屬於地方自治合理的一個範疇呢？"],["詹鎮榮被提名人：至少就空污而言，我個人的基本立場是，地方並不完全沒有權限。"],["陳委員昭姿：謝謝被提名人。空污防制的環境保護本來就應該是一個因地制宜的作法，可是當時臺中市政府依法開罰中火1,800萬元，結果當時環保署逕自撤銷罰單，臺北高等法院判決環境部是沒有權限這樣做的，這個現在是進行中。","我最後要告訴被提名人，大法官本來就是一個獨立的標竿，當大法官做出裁決的時候應該要秉持公正跟獨立超然的精神。請問您有這個信心跟決心，當您成為大法官之後，您可以超然獨立的行使您的職權嗎？您點頭嗎？"],["詹鎮榮被提名人：有。"],["陳委員昭姿：您可以做得到？"],["詹鎮榮被提名人：可以。"],["陳委員昭姿：好，謝謝，謝謝被提名人。"],["主席：謝謝陳委員，謝謝被提名人的答詢。","蘇巧慧委員之詢問以書面提出，列入紀錄，刊登公報。"],["委員蘇巧慧書面詢問：","正如被提名人口頭報告所言「大法官為民主法治國家憲政秩序的最後守護者」，是維繫我國自由民主憲政秩序體制重要的一環。而本席作為法律人，能夠參與司法院大法官的提名也是很榮幸的事。然而，對於我國現在身處的危機與窘境，本席卻難以樂觀。從去（2024）年10月31日七位大法官任期屆滿後卸任，司法院正副院長和大法官的懸缺至今已超過八個月時間，最後一號判決（113年憲判字第11號）日期則是2024年10月28日，已有260天沒有作成任何新判決。根據憲法法庭統計月報，2025年截至五月聲請案件共有1,000件──案件終結622件包含610件裁定不受理、其他終結程序裁定、撤回或其他12件，易言之，過去八個月時間憲法法庭的案件終結沒有作出任何實體判決、也無從宣告任何法律違憲，且憲法法庭自2022年改制以來聲請案件超過98%皆為人民聲請，次之為法院就其審理之案件所為聲請，而國家最高機關與立法委員之聲請案件數則為最末，足見憲法法庭絕大多數案件仍是基本權利案件。","1.請問被提名人認為司法院正副院長以及大法官出缺，是否對我國憲政造成危機？可能對臺灣的民主憲政秩序造成何種影響？","上述情形在立法院強行通過的《憲法訴訟法》修正條文於今（2025）年1月25日生效後使情況更加嚴峻，第30條新增第二項「參與評議大法官人數不得低於10人，作成違憲宣告時，同意違憲宣告大法官人數不得低於9人」，讓目前僅八人在任的大法官依法無法實質評議。有論者進一步提出，憲法法庭應具有某種本於憲法的程序自主權，或者至少應具有不被其他憲法機關惡意癱瘓、操控的自我防衛能力，否則若因其他憲政機關消極不行使或違反其憲法忠誠義務之行為，遂使憲法法庭無法行使職權時，憲法法庭將無法承擔守護憲政民主秩序的職責。","2.請問被提名人對憲法法庭程序自主權的看法？或應如何形塑或限縮於何種特殊情況中始有程序自主權適用之餘地？","本次審查過程中，部分委員提出大法官最重要的特質為對抗當權者的勇氣，亦有認為大法官不具有民意基礎，因此憲法法庭判決內容得透過公投結果推翻。","3.請問被提名人如何理解憲法法庭的任務，是否確有對抗其他機關的意涵？","4.憲法法庭判決效力為何？立法院得否作出違反憲法法庭判決之修法，此等行為是否違背其憲法忠誠義務？","5.憲法法庭判決之內容得否為公民投票之標的，判決結果得否為公民投票結果所推翻或改變？","被提名人簡歷中社會參與部分相當豐富，包含中央與地方政府之法規研修小組、訴願委員會委員以及行政法院調解委員等，也曾多次受司法院大法官及憲法法庭指定為鑑定人、提交專家諮詢意見書。與行政權及司法權長期的對話與溝通，相信使被提名人具有豐富的實務經驗，有助於未來行使大法官職權有所助益。","6.請問被提名人的社會參與中印象最深刻的案件或經驗？無論是對您個人有重大影響，或是因見解影響法院判決或立法的具體案例，希望藉此了解您最關切或認為極具指標的憲政議題或基本人權保障議題。","近年我國中央與地方權限垂直劃分等權力分立議題經常發生爭議，如憲法法庭111年度憲判字第6號判決、中火發電廠裁罰，乃至於《財政收支劃分法》修法未依財權隨事權劃分……等，顯現我國地方自治制度落實上仍有許多亟欲檢討之處，有鑒於部分案件已向憲法法庭聲請，本席不會針對個案具體要求被提名人發表意見，避免落入因特定立場而支持／反對大法官被提名人選，以及影響大法官獨立行使職權不受干預的自主性。","7.請問被提名人，就您身為公法學者──尤其行政法與地方自治學者的專業意見，認為我國的地方自治規範及觀念，是否仍有因與制憲時相距過大而窒礙難行？應從哪些面向思考或有得重新思考制度安排之處？","從COVID-19疫情時刻的緊急危難，到近年中國灰色地帶侵擾愈發嚴重的情勢下，令論者開始思考我國的法治規範是否足夠因應特別時期的需要，尤其愈是在危難時刻更需要可資依循的規範，同時劃定出法治國原則下為達成特別重大公共利益下，可能造成的基本人權侵害樣態與邊界以及如何正當化的判准。本席發現被提名人最近期的研究計畫正是涉及此議題。","8.請問被提名人目前的研究的成果以及如何看待「緊急應變能力之法制」？","最後，本席仍要對被提名人表達敬意，在動盪且充滿不確定性的情況下勇於接受總統提名，半年前才經歷過的大法官被提名人質詢就像赤裸裸的警告與威嚇，可能會讓本席的前輩、法律人們感到憂心，但所幸仍有如被提名人這樣願意承擔重任的有志者，願意為我國的憲政體制存續而努力。","9.在朝小野大的立法權與行政權的潛在衝突中，過去在司法院大法官釋字第328、第419號解釋等所適用的政治問題理論，便是在政治僵局中試圖透過違憲審查機制處理政治部門權限爭議之例。請問被提名人是如何看待權力分立原則中司法權所擔負的角色與任務？","10.未來被提名人通過任命後，將如何行使大法官及憲法法庭職務，是否會維持被提名人的口頭報告「發揮司法積極主義下釋憲引導功能」的期許，面對未來的諸多任務與挑戰，抑或是可能受到其他因素考量而採取司法自制的立場？"],["主席：下一位請陳玉珍委員詢問。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":532,"meet_id":"全院委員會-11-3-4","speakers":["江啟臣","陳玉珍","林國成","劉建國","葛如鈞","郭昱晴","柯志恩","陳培瑜","陳昭姿","蘇巧慧","陳俊宇","牛煦庭","盧縣一"],"page_start":467,"meetingDate":["2025-07-14"],"gazette_id":"1146501","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1146501_00009","1146501_00010"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期第4次全院委員會會議紀錄","content":"總統咨，為司法院大法官含院長、副院長，現有缺額7名，茲依據中華民國憲法增修條文第5條規\n定，提名蔡秋明、蘇素娥、蕭文生、鄭純惠、林麗瑩、陳慈陽、詹鎮榮7位為司法院大法官，並\n以蔡秋明為院長、蘇素娥為副院長，咨請同意案（後接第二冊）","agenda_id":"1146501_00005"}}}