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\"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"電\"}, {\"word\": \"磁\", \"start\": 428.039, \"end\": 428.059, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"板\", \"start\": 428.059, \"end\": 428.079, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"滲\"}, {\"word\": \"漏\", \"start\": 428.079, \"end\": 428.199, \"score\": 0.644}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 428.199, \"end\": 428.219, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 428.219, \"end\": 428.239, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"個\"}]}, {\"start\": 442.938, \"end\": 447.322, \"text\": \"風險跟影響取決於他所用的材料就是離岸這個光電的浮板他所決定他會決定曝露的一個表面積例如這個鍍鋅鋼的或某些房屋塗層可能會讓鋅、鎳隔等這個都凍金屬滲入水中那這些物質已經知道是會影響海洋生物的他不是只有對人的生命海洋生物所以也就是環境部一開始說的如果太陽能板\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"風\"}, {\"word\": \"險\"}, {\"word\": \"跟\", \"start\": 442.938, \"end\": 443.038, \"score\": 0.8}, {\"word\": \"影\", \"start\": 443.038, \"end\": 443.138, \"score\": 0.057}, {\"word\": \"響\"}, {\"word\": \"取\", \"start\": 443.138, \"end\": 443.158, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"決\"}, {\"word\": \"於\", \"start\": 443.158, \"end\": 443.178, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"他\", \"start\": 443.178, \"end\": 443.278, \"score\": 0.799}, {\"word\": \"所\", \"start\": 443.278, \"end\": 443.298, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"用\", \"start\": 443.298, \"end\": 443.338, \"score\": 0.005}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 443.338, \"end\": 443.539, \"score\": 0.525}, {\"word\": \"材\", \"start\": 443.539, \"end\": 443.659, \"score\": 0.832}, {\"word\": \"料\", \"start\": 443.659, \"end\": 443.719, \"score\": 0.229}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 443.719, \"end\": 443.759, \"score\": 0.014}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 443.759, \"end\": 443.779, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"離\"}, {\"word\": \"岸\", \"start\": 443.779, \"end\": 443.799, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"光\", \"start\": 443.799, \"end\": 443.819, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"電\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 443.819, \"end\": 443.839, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"浮\", \"start\": 443.839, \"end\": 443.859, 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\"end\": 446.141, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"生\", \"start\": 446.141, \"end\": 446.161, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"命\", \"start\": 446.161, \"end\": 446.181, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"海\", \"start\": 446.181, \"end\": 446.201, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"洋\", \"start\": 446.201, \"end\": 446.281, \"score\": 0.749}, {\"word\": \"生\", \"start\": 446.281, \"end\": 446.301, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"物\", \"start\": 446.301, \"end\": 446.321, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"所\", \"start\": 446.321, \"end\": 446.341, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 446.341, \"end\": 446.361, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"也\", \"start\": 446.361, \"end\": 446.381, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 446.381, \"end\": 446.441, \"score\": 0.395}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 446.441, \"end\": 446.461, \"score\": 0.282}, {\"word\": \"環\"}, {\"word\": \"境\", \"start\": 446.461, \"end\": 446.521, \"score\": 0.662}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 446.521, \"end\": 446.561, \"score\": 0.353}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 446.561, \"end\": 446.661, \"score\": 0.7}, {\"word\": \"開\"}, {\"word\": \"始\", \"start\": 446.661, \"end\": 446.842, \"score\": 0.674}, {\"word\": \"說\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 446.842, \"end\": 446.862, \"score\": 0.286}, {\"word\": \"如\", \"start\": 446.862, \"end\": 446.942, \"score\": 0.468}, {\"word\": \"果\", \"start\": 446.942, \"end\": 447.082, \"score\": 0.662}, {\"word\": \"太\", \"start\": 447.082, \"end\": 447.102, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"陽\", \"start\": 447.102, \"end\": 447.202, \"score\": 0.8}, {\"word\": \"能\", \"start\": 447.202, \"end\": 447.302, \"score\": 0.565}, {\"word\": \"板\", \"start\": 447.302, \"end\": 447.322, \"score\": 0.0}]}, {\"start\": 469.602, \"end\": 480.21, \"text\": \"含有重金屬這個物質會有污染的風險請教部長您是否有掌握這次戴拉斯颱風所造成的整組的光電模組雖然你剛剛說結構材料成分的掌握是否有事先重金屬釋出的風險評估我想請問你一整套的光電模組從太陽能板浮動平台 錨到接線箱 潛水電纜完全沒有污染的可能性嗎完全沒有嗎\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"含\", \"start\": 469.602, \"end\": 469.782, \"score\": 0.576}, {\"word\": 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00:00:39,931\n那市長請教這個面對今天這麼重要的議題要詢答郭居輝部長無故請假請問他是不是藐視國會\n\n3\n00:00:42,104 --> 00:01:01,353\n報告委員並沒有因為昨天台電的員工因為感電發生了意外剛剛主席有說明他現在的身體的狀況非常的危急所以我們部長現在就堅持趕到現場部長有能力搶救是不是部長可以到醫院去搶救是不是這麼重要的議題經濟部惹出來的禍\n\n4\n00:01:03,842 --> 00:01:30,119\n報告委員對於國人的生命跟生活台電董事長他去關心員工是應該的我們對員工包括我自己我們要給予深深的祈福跟感謝包括現在正在搶救的消防員包括當然所有參與搶救的中油跟台電的員工但是我想請教你他現在在裝葉克模台灣第一葉克模專家是誰\n\n5\n00:01:33,622 --> 00:01:57,977\n不是柯文哲嗎?放他出去搶救是不是更有用?是不是有機會救回人命呢?曾文森行嗎?郭紀輝行嗎?我們也感謝衛福部,包括剛剛主席也有提到我們希望透過我們現在的醫學的量能來針對台電員工及於搶救我們回到今天的主題\n\n6\n00:01:59,718 --> 00:02:02,819\n上星期經濟部宣稱離岸光碟這個浮台是屬於實驗計畫都是為了要測試這個光電浮台的系統在海上的耐受性結果經濟部的澄清報告漏洞百出很快被抓包不僅僅是跟畜動業者他所聲稱的還有部分的這個光電板\n\n7\n00:02:19,963 --> 00:02:34,027\n沒有移除的說法不一樣那關鍵板的移除情形也跟屏東縣政府講的狀況不一樣那我想人民有全知道真相請問市長到底現在移除的情況是什麼真相是什麼如果這個連經濟部都沒辦法講清楚呢\n\n8\n00:02:37,948 --> 00:02:47,499\n他不是只是抗風浪測試嗎那抗風浪測試如果只放浮板只放浮板沒有放這個光電板測試什麼呢他在測試浮板嗎還是測試光電板的浮板呢好謝謝指導\n\n9\n00:02:52,825 --> 00:03:17,202\n我們這個測試的計畫確實在颱風來臨之前所有的光電板已經已移除那我們在媒體上面看到的這些各式各樣的說法包括屏東縣政府業者自己我們有多次的來發表相關的這個訊息讓民眾的知道那事實上這種所謂的海面型太陽能光電它的測試的部分有包括它的載具\n\n10\n00:03:19,104 --> 00:03:25,452\n面對風浪抗風浪的這個情形那這次丹納斯颱風從你的答案就說全部撤除了是不是那我問你海底有清除嗎你海底有去追查嗎有沒有遭到海底的我們這個部分要再仔細的再密切的清查你怎麼能說全部撤除乾淨了呢\n\n11\n00:03:35,586 --> 00:03:54,214\n那颱風天警報它啟動的這個SOP按照機制應該撤除哪些部分應該撤除哪些你有SOP吧有沒有SOP丹娜斯7月6號晚上11點40分登錄之前我們在前一天經濟部透過請告訴我直接告訴我要撤除根據這個SOP颱風天啟動的要撤除哪些這個裝置\n\n12\n00:03:59,376 --> 00:04:08,123\n所有的不管是太陽能光電或是離岸性的風電他必須要做一些固定的作業海底我們還不知道發生什麼事情好那這個我想講說離岸這個福臺它不是實驗你說是實驗這不是實驗遊戲場經濟部不應該用官方的帳號去幫光電業者背書這是完全錯誤的事情\n\n13\n00:04:21,612 --> 00:04:35,781\n絕對沒有這個事情我們面對於我們綠能的發展一向秉持公開透明你說他們全部移除他自己都說沒有移除啊我們不希望有任何貪圖的情形發生市長上週一本辦公室有發函索取這個旭東他辦理這個離岸太陽光電系統的福台的這個開發研究計畫那你們本來承諾說最晚11號要給我我是7月7號發公文的現在幾號了請問為什麼\n\n14\n00:04:50,290 --> 00:05:19,020\n到現在我還收不到你的計劃書呢這段期間我們一直在救災那能源署也一直在調配當地的儲冷跟發電所以沒有辦法調出計劃書嗎是這樣嗎容委員讓我說明一下委員所需要索取跟其他委員所需要索取的資料我們當天同仁跟委員的這個辦公室都會有一些聯絡那至於委員的這個部分其他的委員我知道我有看過能源署已經有把資料送出去了\n\n15\n00:05:19,840 --> 00:05:35,058\n我只要這個續動開發技術開發研究案的計畫書你們核准的計畫書我只要這個部分今天可以給我嗎今天這個東西都啟動計畫書之前程序都完成才會啟動研究機構大家都懂\n\n16\n00:05:35,919 --> 00:05:49,864\n那你要留下來修改資料嗎跟委員說明我們對於公眾利益的關心跟民眾權益的關心同等重要我們認為依照資訊公開法的這個部分我們希望有相關的法規等等等等資訊公開法這個是用公帑的涉及公共重大利益難道你要把這個資訊揭露的這個主導權交給廠商嗎你還要問這個綠油油嗎你還要問旭東嗎\n\n17\n00:06:01,368 --> 00:06:29,896\n他同意才行嗎他內部有一些他自己的公司的營運的基本的一個訊息那這個部分依照資訊公開法的部分我們必須要去依法執行市長你這個理由我們聽你的花我們的錢現在傷害了人民的性命家產你現在還告訴我說你的計畫是沒有辦法讓我看根本說明我們對所有的計畫無論在查核在督導甚至是針對保證的部分你該蓋的該塗黑的都塗黑你下午可以給我這個資料嗎你下午可以給嗎這個部分我們必須要依照資訊公開法的程序來處理7月7號我就發函了\n\n18\n00:06:31,331 --> 00:06:42,078\n你自信公安法要處理多久你要私下修改東西嗎你不得不讓我們這樣懷疑啊當然不可能我們會去做這種的行為那針對於你什麼時候可以給我呢我這個要求的過分嗎我們要看計畫書啊造成這麼大的問題\n\n19\n00:06:45,635 --> 00:07:02,164\n在合法合規的這個情況之下然後予以落實用公帑涉及公共利益的東西你們把資訊揭露權的主導權決定權交給廠商並沒有這回事這個案子在實施之前也有公開的聽證麻煩你稍後一下那個麻煩彭部長\n\n20\n00:07:04,895 --> 00:07:08,239\n董事長您一定聽實際有些2023年荷蘭有一家水利研究機構他報告指出當然你剛好做一些報告不過這是人家的研究報告損壞的太陽能板可能會將有毒物質跟重金屬釋入這個帶入這個海洋環境那太陽能的電磁板滲漏的這個一個\n\n21\n00:07:22,938 --> 00:07:27,322\n風險跟影響取決於他所用的材料就是離岸這個光電的浮板他所決定他會決定曝露的一個表面積例如這個鍍鋅鋼的或某些房屋塗層可能會讓鋅、鎳隔等這個都凍金屬滲入水中那這些物質已經知道是會影響海洋生物的他不是只有對人的生命海洋生物所以也就是環境部一開始說的如果太陽能板\n\n22\n00:07:49,602 --> 00:08:00,210\n含有重金屬這個物質會有污染的風險請教部長您是否有掌握這次戴拉斯颱風所造成的整組的光電模組雖然你剛剛說結構材料成分的掌握是否有事先重金屬釋出的風險評估我想請問你一整套的光電模組從太陽能板浮動平台錨到接線箱潛水電纜完全沒有污染的可能性嗎完全沒有嗎\n\n23\n00:08:19,790 --> 00:08:34,934\n包括如果說長期的話我認為是可能還是會逐漸的釋出出來因為例如說我到現場去看破碎的那個實際上的那個半導體的這個模組在上面其實如果他是用銅銅線背後包括的銀\n\n24\n00:08:35,615 --> 00:08:53,176\n你們曾經有講過說你們主流的太陽能板中玻璃佔了74%以為是相對安全但是請問你所謂主流的太陽能板全台灣用的百分比多少就那一塊嗎全台灣主流你認為相對是安全的東西那整個台灣用的比例是多少才叫主流\n\n25\n00:08:53,656 --> 00:09:04,403\n基本上大多數就是幾乎是這個樣子都是一模一樣的樣子因為那個基本上全世界大概都是這個樣子那當然這個研究我們也在搜集當中有超過40%嗎還是都是雜質有40%用這個你所謂的主流太陽能板嗎\n\n26\n00:09:12,180 --> 00:09:27,101\n基本上這個太陽能板都是一樣的一個規格啦好我再了解一下這個資料那民進黨執政以來把相當多的資源放在投入光電並且將綠能視為引以為傲的一個政績但現在出事誰來負責請問彭部長我想知道現在暗場的\n\n27\n00:09:27,782 --> 00:09:51,797\n這個副廠廠副的進度如何不然你有沒有去看左邊左下圖這張圖這個是嘉義你看到嘉義新聞光電廠案帳號像周的模樣喔那個颱風都過了好幾天喔但水上的光電廠還是一團亂請問這是哪一家業者是雲報能源還是台達電因為網路上這種說法都有啊那我看請問部長或市長誰能夠回答我這是誰家的這是誰家哪一家業者的\n\n28\n00:09:55,180 --> 00:10:09,626\n這個其實昨天我有特別派我的署長到現場探勘其實這個照片是剛開始發生的其實現在已經有顯著的一個清楚了但是還是有堆置您有回答我是哪個業者是雲報能源還是台達電因為網路上是這樣說的我們有權利知道是誰的這個要請經濟部您不知道嗎沒有掌握嗎\n\n29\n00:10:18,549 --> 00:10:45,432\n還是不能講跟委員說明新聞的這個損害的這個狀況我們因為這期先搭配要優先附電所以我們在163線的這個部分搭配附電然後優先搶修那除此之外的話這一些的破壞的模板都已經集中收集起來重建的錢誰來付這個預算的來源是誰提供\n\n30\n00:10:47,014 --> 00:11:05,188\n永興這家公司是永興公司我想我想再請問等一下你他的cover的範圍有多少你以為這3%的這個受損受傷的官員沒有0.4%跟委員說明整個重建的過程要花多少錢這個要看整個整體的蒐集之後再來進行\n\n31\n00:11:06,869 --> 00:11:11,611\n那我們全國大概有33個案場受到程度不一的損害那整體的損害率只佔我們所有的裝置的比率0.4%好彭部長我想請教彭部長這件事經濟部他是目的事業主管機關那是不是應該讓水上光電做一次完整的政策環評呢您過去的立場是政策環評\n\n32\n00:11:32,421 --> 00:11:56,322\n我們是希望能源署可以來做啦我們也跟他們在磋商當中賴市長不好意思我還沒請你回座那你支持這個政策環評嗎縫電廠現在出事了你說如果是測試如果是測試那就是不合格嘛失敗嘛你這個號稱是花了1億多的一個費用這個研究計畫花了1億多你號稱可以用20年啊現在是證明不堪一擊啊\n\n33\n00:11:59,525 --> 00:12:05,630\n首先跟委員說明旭東的案子它是一個試驗的計畫那整體的太安能的這個光電達到需要環評的這個標準我們都有實施環評那除此之外的話我們在這個月\n\n34\n00:12:17,011 --> 00:12:39,518\n我們也在跟社會各利害關係人在溝通不管是在我們的環境部已經說要做環境部的職責提出來的意見我們都逐一的做一個相貴的一個答覆那至於營運中的這個案場的部分即便颱風清洗了布袋地區當天他其實他的發電量跟颱風錢還是相當的我們要有一個瞭解\n\n35\n00:12:44,279 --> 00:13:09,091\n責任的歸屬費用的使用一次試驗的失敗那是業者自行負擔的政府不會去負擔這個部分那後續的清理的部分也是責任的部分也是業者的一個責任你掉到哪裡去了東西到底散播到什麼程度長期的影響是什麼這個我們會跟屏東縣政府跟海委會你要做的把關的部分嗎還是\n\n36\n00:13:10,626 --> 00:13:12,594\n好那我今天就到這裡謝謝主席謝謝兩位謝謝委員謝謝部長\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n4569\t19979\t謝謝主席 有請郭智慧部長有請郭智慧部長有請郭智慧部長好 暫時不打 缺席下一個有請賴次長好 賴次長走\n30151\t39931\t那市長請教這個面對今天這麼重要的議題要詢答郭居輝部長無故請假請問他是不是藐視國會\n42104\t61353\t報告委員並沒有因為昨天台電的員工因為感電發生了意外剛剛主席有說明他現在的身體的狀況非常的危急所以我們部長現在就堅持趕到現場部長有能力搶救是不是部長可以到醫院去搶救是不是這麼重要的議題經濟部惹出來的禍\n63842\t90119\t報告委員對於國人的生命跟生活台電董事長他去關心員工是應該的我們對員工包括我自己我們要給予深深的祈福跟感謝包括現在正在搶救的消防員包括當然所有參與搶救的中油跟台電的員工但是我想請教你他現在在裝葉克模台灣第一葉克模專家是誰\n93622\t117977\t不是柯文哲嗎?放他出去搶救是不是更有用?是不是有機會救回人命呢?曾文森行嗎?郭紀輝行嗎?我們也感謝衛福部,包括剛剛主席也有提到我們希望透過我們現在的醫學的量能來針對台電員工及於搶救我們回到今天的主題\n119718\t122819\t上星期經濟部宣稱離岸光碟這個浮台是屬於實驗計畫都是為了要測試這個光電浮台的系統在海上的耐受性結果經濟部的澄清報告漏洞百出很快被抓包不僅僅是跟畜動業者他所聲稱的還有部分的這個光電板\n139963\t154027\t沒有移除的說法不一樣那關鍵板的移除情形也跟屏東縣政府講的狀況不一樣那我想人民有全知道真相請問市長到底現在移除的情況是什麼真相是什麼如果這個連經濟部都沒辦法講清楚呢\n157948\t167499\t他不是只是抗風浪測試嗎那抗風浪測試如果只放浮板只放浮板沒有放這個光電板測試什麼呢他在測試浮板嗎還是測試光電板的浮板呢好謝謝指導\n172825\t197202\t我們這個測試的計畫確實在颱風來臨之前所有的光電板已經已移除那我們在媒體上面看到的這些各式各樣的說法 包括屏東縣政府 業者自己我們有多次的來發表相關的這個訊息讓民眾的知道那事實上這種所謂的海面型太陽能光電它的測試的部分有包括它的載具\n199104\t205452\t面對風浪 抗風浪的這個情形那這次丹納斯颱風從你的答案就說全部撤除了是不是那我問你海底有清除嗎你海底有去追查嗎有沒有遭到海底的我們這個部分要再仔細的再密切的清查你怎麼能說全部撤除乾淨了呢\n215586\t234214\t那颱風天警報它啟動的這個SOP按照機制應該撤除哪些部分應該撤除哪些 你有SOP吧 有沒有SOP丹娜斯7月6號晚上11點40分登錄之前我們在前一天經濟部透過請告訴我 直接告訴我要撤除根據這個SOP颱風天啟動的要撤除哪些這個裝置\n239376\t248123\t所有的不管是太陽能光電或是離岸性的風電他必須要做一些固定的作業海底我們還不知道發生什麼事情好那這個我想講說離岸這個福臺它不是實驗你說是實驗這不是實驗遊戲場經濟部不應該用官方的帳號去幫光電業者背書這是完全錯誤的事情\n261612\t275781\t絕對沒有這個事情我們面對於我們綠能的發展一向秉持公開透明你說他們全部移除他自己都說沒有移除啊我們不希望有任何貪圖的情形發生市長上週一本辦公室有發函索取這個旭東他辦理這個離岸太陽光電系統的福台的這個開發研究計畫那你們本來承諾說最晚11號要給我我是7月7號發公文的現在幾號了請問為什麼\n290290\t319020\t到現在我還收不到 你的計劃書呢這段期間我們一直在救災那能源署也一直在調配當地的儲冷跟發電所以沒有辦法調出計劃書嗎 是這樣嗎容委員讓我說明一下委員所需要索取跟其他委員所需要索取的資料我們當天同仁跟委員的這個辦公室都會有一些聯絡那至於委員的這個部分其他的委員我知道我有看過能源署已經有把資料送出去了\n319840\t335058\t我只要這個續動開發技術開發研究案的計畫書你們核准的計畫書我只要這個部分今天可以給我嗎今天這個東西都啟動計畫書之前程序都完成才會啟動研究機構大家都懂\n335919\t349864\t那你要留下來修改資料嗎跟委員說明我們對於公眾利益的關心跟民眾權益的關心同等重要我們認為依照資訊公開法的這個部分我們希望有相關的法規等等等等資訊公開法這個是用公帑的涉及公共重大利益難道你要把這個資訊揭露的這個主導權交給廠商嗎你還要問這個綠油油嗎你還要問旭東嗎\n361368\t389896\t他同意才行嗎他內部有一些他自己的公司的營運的基本的一個訊息那這個部分依照資訊公開法的部分我們必須要去依法執行市長你這個理由我們聽你的花我們的錢現在傷害了人民的性命家產你現在還告訴我說你的計畫是沒有辦法讓我看根本說明我們對所有的計畫無論在查核在督導甚至是針對保證的部分你該蓋的該塗黑的都塗黑你下午可以給我這個資料嗎你下午可以給嗎這個部分我們必須要依照資訊公開法的程序來處理7月7號我就發函了\n391331\t402078\t你自信公安法要處理多久你要私下修改東西嗎你不得不讓我們這樣懷疑啊當然不可能我們會去做這種的行為那針對於你什麼時候可以給我呢我這個要求的過分嗎我們要看計畫書啊造成這麼大的問題\n405635\t422164\t在合法合規的這個情況之下然後予以落實用公帑涉及公共利益的東西你們把資訊揭露權的主導權決定權交給廠商並沒有這回事這個案子在實施之前也有公開的聽證麻煩你稍後一下那個麻煩彭部長\n424895\t428239\t董事長您一定聽實際有些2023年荷蘭有一家水利研究機構他報告指出當然你剛好做一些報告不過這是人家的研究報告損壞的太陽能板可能會將有毒物質跟重金屬釋入這個帶入這個海洋環境那太陽能的電磁板滲漏的這個一個\n442938\t447322\t風險跟影響取決於他所用的材料就是離岸這個光電的浮板他所決定他會決定曝露的一個表面積例如這個鍍鋅鋼的或某些房屋塗層可能會讓鋅、鎳隔等這個都凍金屬滲入水中那這些物質已經知道是會影響海洋生物的他不是只有對人的生命海洋生物所以也就是環境部一開始說的如果太陽能板\n469602\t480210\t含有重金屬這個物質會有污染的風險請教部長您是否有掌握這次戴拉斯颱風所造成的整組的光電模組雖然你剛剛說結構材料成分的掌握是否有事先重金屬釋出的風險評估我想請問你一整套的光電模組從太陽能板浮動平台 錨到接線箱 潛水電纜完全沒有污染的可能性嗎完全沒有嗎\n499790\t514934\t包括如果說長期的話我認為是可能還是會逐漸的釋出出來因為例如說我到現場去看破碎的那個實際上的那個半導體的這個模組在上面其實如果他是用銅銅線背後包括的銀\n515615\t533176\t你們曾經有講過說你們主流的太陽能板中玻璃佔了74%以為是相對安全但是請問你所謂主流的太陽能板全台灣用的百分比多少就那一塊嗎全台灣主流你認為相對是安全的東西那整個台灣用的比例是多少才叫主流\n533656\t544403\t基本上大多數就是幾乎是這個樣子都是一模一樣的樣子因為那個基本上全世界大概都是這個樣子那當然這個研究我們也在搜集當中有超過40%嗎還是都是雜質有40%用這個你所謂的主流太陽能板嗎\n552180\t567101\t基本上這個太陽能板都是一樣的一個規格啦好我再了解一下這個資料那民進黨執政以來把相當多的資源放在投入光電並且將綠能視為引以為傲的一個政績但現在出事誰來負責請問彭部長我想知道現在暗場的\n567782\t591797\t這個副廠 廠副的進度如何不然你有沒有去看左邊 左下圖這張圖這個是嘉義 你看到 嘉義新聞光電廠案帳號像周的模樣喔 那個颱風都過了好幾天喔但水上的光電廠還是一團亂請問這是哪一家業者是雲報能源還是台達電因為網路上這種說法都有啊那我看請問部長或市長誰能夠回答我這是誰家的這是誰家 哪一家業者的\n595180\t609626\t這個其實昨天我有特別派我的署長到現場探勘其實這個照片是剛開始發生的其實現在已經有顯著的一個清楚了但是還是有堆置您有回答我是哪個業者是雲報能源還是台達電因為網路上是這樣說的我們有權利知道是誰的這個要請經濟部您不知道嗎 沒有掌握嗎\n618549\t645432\t還是不能講 跟委員說明新聞的這個損害的這個狀況我們因為這期先搭配 要優先附電所以我們在163線的這個部分搭配附電然後優先搶修那除此之外的話 這一些的破壞的模板都已經集中收集起來重建的錢誰來付這個預算的來源是誰提供\n647014\t665188\t永興這家公司是永興公司我想我想再請問等一下你他的cover的範圍有多少你以為這3%的這個受損受傷的官員沒有0.4%跟委員說明整個重建的過程要花多少錢這個要看整個整體的蒐集之後再來進行\n666869\t671611\t那我們全國大概有33個案場受到程度不一的損害那整體的損害率只佔我們所有的裝置的比率0.4%好 彭部長我想請教彭部長這件事經濟部他是目的事業主管機關那是不是應該讓水上光電做一次完整的政策環評呢您過去的立場是政策環評\n692421\t716322\t我們是希望能源署可以來做啦我們也跟他們在磋商當中賴市長不好意思我還沒請你回座那你支持這個政策環評嗎縫電廠現在出事了你說如果是測試如果是測試那就是不合格嘛失敗嘛你這個號稱是花了1億多的一個費用這個研究計畫花了1億多你號稱可以用20年啊現在是證明不堪一擊啊\n719525\t725630\t首先跟委員說明旭東的案子它是一個試驗的計畫那整體的太安能的這個光電達到需要環評的這個標準我們都有實施環評那除此之外的話我們在這個月\n737011\t759518\t我們也在跟社會各利害關係人在溝通不管是在我們的環境部已經說要做環境部的職責提出來的意見我們都逐一的做一個相貴的一個答覆那至於營運中的這個案場的部分即便颱風清洗了布袋地區當天他其實他的發電量跟颱風錢還是相當的我們要有一個瞭解\n764279\t789091\t責任的歸屬費用的使用一次試驗的失敗那是業者自行負擔的政府不會去負擔這個部分那後續的清理的部分也是責任的部分也是業者的一個責任你掉到哪裡去了東西到底散播到什麼程度長期的影響是什麼這個我們會跟屏東縣政府跟海委會你要做的把關的部分嗎還是\n790626\t792594\t好 那我今天就到這裡 謝謝主席謝謝兩位 謝謝委員 謝謝部長\n","txt":"謝謝主席 有請郭智慧部長有請郭智慧部長有請郭智慧部長好 暫時不打 缺席下一個有請賴次長好 賴次長走\n那市長請教這個面對今天這麼重要的議題要詢答郭居輝部長無故請假請問他是不是藐視國會\n報告委員並沒有因為昨天台電的員工因為感電發生了意外剛剛主席有說明他現在的身體的狀況非常的危急所以我們部長現在就堅持趕到現場部長有能力搶救是不是部長可以到醫院去搶救是不是這麼重要的議題經濟部惹出來的禍\n報告委員對於國人的生命跟生活台電董事長他去關心員工是應該的我們對員工包括我自己我們要給予深深的祈福跟感謝包括現在正在搶救的消防員包括當然所有參與搶救的中油跟台電的員工但是我想請教你他現在在裝葉克模台灣第一葉克模專家是誰\n不是柯文哲嗎?放他出去搶救是不是更有用?是不是有機會救回人命呢?曾文森行嗎?郭紀輝行嗎?我們也感謝衛福部,包括剛剛主席也有提到我們希望透過我們現在的醫學的量能來針對台電員工及於搶救我們回到今天的主題\n上星期經濟部宣稱離岸光碟這個浮台是屬於實驗計畫都是為了要測試這個光電浮台的系統在海上的耐受性結果經濟部的澄清報告漏洞百出很快被抓包不僅僅是跟畜動業者他所聲稱的還有部分的這個光電板\n沒有移除的說法不一樣那關鍵板的移除情形也跟屏東縣政府講的狀況不一樣那我想人民有全知道真相請問市長到底現在移除的情況是什麼真相是什麼如果這個連經濟部都沒辦法講清楚呢\n他不是只是抗風浪測試嗎那抗風浪測試如果只放浮板只放浮板沒有放這個光電板測試什麼呢他在測試浮板嗎還是測試光電板的浮板呢好謝謝指導\n我們這個測試的計畫確實在颱風來臨之前所有的光電板已經已移除那我們在媒體上面看到的這些各式各樣的說法 包括屏東縣政府 業者自己我們有多次的來發表相關的這個訊息讓民眾的知道那事實上這種所謂的海面型太陽能光電它的測試的部分有包括它的載具\n面對風浪 抗風浪的這個情形那這次丹納斯颱風從你的答案就說全部撤除了是不是那我問你海底有清除嗎你海底有去追查嗎有沒有遭到海底的我們這個部分要再仔細的再密切的清查你怎麼能說全部撤除乾淨了呢\n那颱風天警報它啟動的這個SOP按照機制應該撤除哪些部分應該撤除哪些 你有SOP吧 有沒有SOP丹娜斯7月6號晚上11點40分登錄之前我們在前一天經濟部透過請告訴我 直接告訴我要撤除根據這個SOP颱風天啟動的要撤除哪些這個裝置\n所有的不管是太陽能光電或是離岸性的風電他必須要做一些固定的作業海底我們還不知道發生什麼事情好那這個我想講說離岸這個福臺它不是實驗你說是實驗這不是實驗遊戲場經濟部不應該用官方的帳號去幫光電業者背書這是完全錯誤的事情\n絕對沒有這個事情我們面對於我們綠能的發展一向秉持公開透明你說他們全部移除他自己都說沒有移除啊我們不希望有任何貪圖的情形發生市長上週一本辦公室有發函索取這個旭東他辦理這個離岸太陽光電系統的福台的這個開發研究計畫那你們本來承諾說最晚11號要給我我是7月7號發公文的現在幾號了請問為什麼\n到現在我還收不到 你的計劃書呢這段期間我們一直在救災那能源署也一直在調配當地的儲冷跟發電所以沒有辦法調出計劃書嗎 是這樣嗎容委員讓我說明一下委員所需要索取跟其他委員所需要索取的資料我們當天同仁跟委員的這個辦公室都會有一些聯絡那至於委員的這個部分其他的委員我知道我有看過能源署已經有把資料送出去了\n我只要這個續動開發技術開發研究案的計畫書你們核准的計畫書我只要這個部分今天可以給我嗎今天這個東西都啟動計畫書之前程序都完成才會啟動研究機構大家都懂\n那你要留下來修改資料嗎跟委員說明我們對於公眾利益的關心跟民眾權益的關心同等重要我們認為依照資訊公開法的這個部分我們希望有相關的法規等等等等資訊公開法這個是用公帑的涉及公共重大利益難道你要把這個資訊揭露的這個主導權交給廠商嗎你還要問這個綠油油嗎你還要問旭東嗎\n他同意才行嗎他內部有一些他自己的公司的營運的基本的一個訊息那這個部分依照資訊公開法的部分我們必須要去依法執行市長你這個理由我們聽你的花我們的錢現在傷害了人民的性命家產你現在還告訴我說你的計畫是沒有辦法讓我看根本說明我們對所有的計畫無論在查核在督導甚至是針對保證的部分你該蓋的該塗黑的都塗黑你下午可以給我這個資料嗎你下午可以給嗎這個部分我們必須要依照資訊公開法的程序來處理7月7號我就發函了\n你自信公安法要處理多久你要私下修改東西嗎你不得不讓我們這樣懷疑啊當然不可能我們會去做這種的行為那針對於你什麼時候可以給我呢我這個要求的過分嗎我們要看計畫書啊造成這麼大的問題\n在合法合規的這個情況之下然後予以落實用公帑涉及公共利益的東西你們把資訊揭露權的主導權決定權交給廠商並沒有這回事這個案子在實施之前也有公開的聽證麻煩你稍後一下那個麻煩彭部長\n董事長您一定聽實際有些2023年荷蘭有一家水利研究機構他報告指出當然你剛好做一些報告不過這是人家的研究報告損壞的太陽能板可能會將有毒物質跟重金屬釋入這個帶入這個海洋環境那太陽能的電磁板滲漏的這個一個\n風險跟影響取決於他所用的材料就是離岸這個光電的浮板他所決定他會決定曝露的一個表面積例如這個鍍鋅鋼的或某些房屋塗層可能會讓鋅、鎳隔等這個都凍金屬滲入水中那這些物質已經知道是會影響海洋生物的他不是只有對人的生命海洋生物所以也就是環境部一開始說的如果太陽能板\n含有重金屬這個物質會有污染的風險請教部長您是否有掌握這次戴拉斯颱風所造成的整組的光電模組雖然你剛剛說結構材料成分的掌握是否有事先重金屬釋出的風險評估我想請問你一整套的光電模組從太陽能板浮動平台 錨到接線箱 潛水電纜完全沒有污染的可能性嗎完全沒有嗎\n包括如果說長期的話我認為是可能還是會逐漸的釋出出來因為例如說我到現場去看破碎的那個實際上的那個半導體的這個模組在上面其實如果他是用銅銅線背後包括的銀\n你們曾經有講過說你們主流的太陽能板中玻璃佔了74%以為是相對安全但是請問你所謂主流的太陽能板全台灣用的百分比多少就那一塊嗎全台灣主流你認為相對是安全的東西那整個台灣用的比例是多少才叫主流\n基本上大多數就是幾乎是這個樣子都是一模一樣的樣子因為那個基本上全世界大概都是這個樣子那當然這個研究我們也在搜集當中有超過40%嗎還是都是雜質有40%用這個你所謂的主流太陽能板嗎\n基本上這個太陽能板都是一樣的一個規格啦好我再了解一下這個資料那民進黨執政以來把相當多的資源放在投入光電並且將綠能視為引以為傲的一個政績但現在出事誰來負責請問彭部長我想知道現在暗場的\n這個副廠 廠副的進度如何不然你有沒有去看左邊 左下圖這張圖這個是嘉義 你看到 嘉義新聞光電廠案帳號像周的模樣喔 那個颱風都過了好幾天喔但水上的光電廠還是一團亂請問這是哪一家業者是雲報能源還是台達電因為網路上這種說法都有啊那我看請問部長或市長誰能夠回答我這是誰家的這是誰家 哪一家業者的\n這個其實昨天我有特別派我的署長到現場探勘其實這個照片是剛開始發生的其實現在已經有顯著的一個清楚了但是還是有堆置您有回答我是哪個業者是雲報能源還是台達電因為網路上是這樣說的我們有權利知道是誰的這個要請經濟部您不知道嗎 沒有掌握嗎\n還是不能講 跟委員說明新聞的這個損害的這個狀況我們因為這期先搭配 要優先附電所以我們在163線的這個部分搭配附電然後優先搶修那除此之外的話 這一些的破壞的模板都已經集中收集起來重建的錢誰來付這個預算的來源是誰提供\n永興這家公司是永興公司我想我想再請問等一下你他的cover的範圍有多少你以為這3%的這個受損受傷的官員沒有0.4%跟委員說明整個重建的過程要花多少錢這個要看整個整體的蒐集之後再來進行\n那我們全國大概有33個案場受到程度不一的損害那整體的損害率只佔我們所有的裝置的比率0.4%好 彭部長我想請教彭部長這件事經濟部他是目的事業主管機關那是不是應該讓水上光電做一次完整的政策環評呢您過去的立場是政策環評\n我們是希望能源署可以來做啦我們也跟他們在磋商當中賴市長不好意思我還沒請你回座那你支持這個政策環評嗎縫電廠現在出事了你說如果是測試如果是測試那就是不合格嘛失敗嘛你這個號稱是花了1億多的一個費用這個研究計畫花了1億多你號稱可以用20年啊現在是證明不堪一擊啊\n首先跟委員說明旭東的案子它是一個試驗的計畫那整體的太安能的這個光電達到需要環評的這個標準我們都有實施環評那除此之外的話我們在這個月\n我們也在跟社會各利害關係人在溝通不管是在我們的環境部已經說要做環境部的職責提出來的意見我們都逐一的做一個相貴的一個答覆那至於營運中的這個案場的部分即便颱風清洗了布袋地區當天他其實他的發電量跟颱風錢還是相當的我們要有一個瞭解\n責任的歸屬費用的使用一次試驗的失敗那是業者自行負擔的政府不會去負擔這個部分那後續的清理的部分也是責任的部分也是業者的一個責任你掉到哪裡去了東西到底散播到什麼程度長期的影響是什麼這個我們會跟屏東縣政府跟海委會你要做的把關的部分嗎還是\n好 那我今天就到這裡 謝謝主席謝謝兩位 謝謝委員 謝謝部長\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:04.569 --> 00:19.979\n謝謝主席有請郭智慧部長有請郭智慧部長有請郭智慧部長好暫時不打缺席下一個有請賴次長好賴次長走\n\n00:30.151 --> 00:39.931\n那市長請教這個面對今天這麼重要的議題要詢答郭居輝部長無故請假請問他是不是藐視國會\n\n00:42.104 --> 01:01.353\n報告委員並沒有因為昨天台電的員工因為感電發生了意外剛剛主席有說明他現在的身體的狀況非常的危急所以我們部長現在就堅持趕到現場部長有能力搶救是不是部長可以到醫院去搶救是不是這麼重要的議題經濟部惹出來的禍\n\n01:03.842 --> 01:30.119\n報告委員對於國人的生命跟生活台電董事長他去關心員工是應該的我們對員工包括我自己我們要給予深深的祈福跟感謝包括現在正在搶救的消防員包括當然所有參與搶救的中油跟台電的員工但是我想請教你他現在在裝葉克模台灣第一葉克模專家是誰\n\n01:33.622 --> 01:57.977\n不是柯文哲嗎?放他出去搶救是不是更有用?是不是有機會救回人命呢?曾文森行嗎?郭紀輝行嗎?我們也感謝衛福部,包括剛剛主席也有提到我們希望透過我們現在的醫學的量能來針對台電員工及於搶救我們回到今天的主題\n\n01:59.718 --> 02:02.819\n上星期經濟部宣稱離岸光碟這個浮台是屬於實驗計畫都是為了要測試這個光電浮台的系統在海上的耐受性結果經濟部的澄清報告漏洞百出很快被抓包不僅僅是跟畜動業者他所聲稱的還有部分的這個光電板\n\n02:19.963 --> 02:34.027\n沒有移除的說法不一樣那關鍵板的移除情形也跟屏東縣政府講的狀況不一樣那我想人民有全知道真相請問市長到底現在移除的情況是什麼真相是什麼如果這個連經濟部都沒辦法講清楚呢\n\n02:37.948 --> 02:47.499\n他不是只是抗風浪測試嗎那抗風浪測試如果只放浮板只放浮板沒有放這個光電板測試什麼呢他在測試浮板嗎還是測試光電板的浮板呢好謝謝指導\n\n02:52.825 --> 03:17.202\n我們這個測試的計畫確實在颱風來臨之前所有的光電板已經已移除那我們在媒體上面看到的這些各式各樣的說法包括屏東縣政府業者自己我們有多次的來發表相關的這個訊息讓民眾的知道那事實上這種所謂的海面型太陽能光電它的測試的部分有包括它的載具\n\n03:19.104 --> 03:25.452\n面對風浪抗風浪的這個情形那這次丹納斯颱風從你的答案就說全部撤除了是不是那我問你海底有清除嗎你海底有去追查嗎有沒有遭到海底的我們這個部分要再仔細的再密切的清查你怎麼能說全部撤除乾淨了呢\n\n03:35.586 --> 03:54.214\n那颱風天警報它啟動的這個SOP按照機制應該撤除哪些部分應該撤除哪些你有SOP吧有沒有SOP丹娜斯7月6號晚上11點40分登錄之前我們在前一天經濟部透過請告訴我直接告訴我要撤除根據這個SOP颱風天啟動的要撤除哪些這個裝置\n\n03:59.376 --> 04:08.123\n所有的不管是太陽能光電或是離岸性的風電他必須要做一些固定的作業海底我們還不知道發生什麼事情好那這個我想講說離岸這個福臺它不是實驗你說是實驗這不是實驗遊戲場經濟部不應該用官方的帳號去幫光電業者背書這是完全錯誤的事情\n\n04:21.612 --> 04:35.781\n絕對沒有這個事情我們面對於我們綠能的發展一向秉持公開透明你說他們全部移除他自己都說沒有移除啊我們不希望有任何貪圖的情形發生市長上週一本辦公室有發函索取這個旭東他辦理這個離岸太陽光電系統的福台的這個開發研究計畫那你們本來承諾說最晚11號要給我我是7月7號發公文的現在幾號了請問為什麼\n\n04:50.290 --> 05:19.020\n到現在我還收不到你的計劃書呢這段期間我們一直在救災那能源署也一直在調配當地的儲冷跟發電所以沒有辦法調出計劃書嗎是這樣嗎容委員讓我說明一下委員所需要索取跟其他委員所需要索取的資料我們當天同仁跟委員的這個辦公室都會有一些聯絡那至於委員的這個部分其他的委員我知道我有看過能源署已經有把資料送出去了\n\n05:19.840 --> 05:35.058\n我只要這個續動開發技術開發研究案的計畫書你們核准的計畫書我只要這個部分今天可以給我嗎今天這個東西都啟動計畫書之前程序都完成才會啟動研究機構大家都懂\n\n05:35.919 --> 05:49.864\n那你要留下來修改資料嗎跟委員說明我們對於公眾利益的關心跟民眾權益的關心同等重要我們認為依照資訊公開法的這個部分我們希望有相關的法規等等等等資訊公開法這個是用公帑的涉及公共重大利益難道你要把這個資訊揭露的這個主導權交給廠商嗎你還要問這個綠油油嗎你還要問旭東嗎\n\n06:01.368 --> 06:29.896\n他同意才行嗎他內部有一些他自己的公司的營運的基本的一個訊息那這個部分依照資訊公開法的部分我們必須要去依法執行市長你這個理由我們聽你的花我們的錢現在傷害了人民的性命家產你現在還告訴我說你的計畫是沒有辦法讓我看根本說明我們對所有的計畫無論在查核在督導甚至是針對保證的部分你該蓋的該塗黑的都塗黑你下午可以給我這個資料嗎你下午可以給嗎這個部分我們必須要依照資訊公開法的程序來處理7月7號我就發函了\n\n06:31.331 --> 06:42.078\n你自信公安法要處理多久你要私下修改東西嗎你不得不讓我們這樣懷疑啊當然不可能我們會去做這種的行為那針對於你什麼時候可以給我呢我這個要求的過分嗎我們要看計畫書啊造成這麼大的問題\n\n06:45.635 --> 07:02.164\n在合法合規的這個情況之下然後予以落實用公帑涉及公共利益的東西你們把資訊揭露權的主導權決定權交給廠商並沒有這回事這個案子在實施之前也有公開的聽證麻煩你稍後一下那個麻煩彭部長\n\n07:04.895 --> 07:08.239\n董事長您一定聽實際有些2023年荷蘭有一家水利研究機構他報告指出當然你剛好做一些報告不過這是人家的研究報告損壞的太陽能板可能會將有毒物質跟重金屬釋入這個帶入這個海洋環境那太陽能的電磁板滲漏的這個一個\n\n07:22.938 --> 07:27.322\n風險跟影響取決於他所用的材料就是離岸這個光電的浮板他所決定他會決定曝露的一個表面積例如這個鍍鋅鋼的或某些房屋塗層可能會讓鋅、鎳隔等這個都凍金屬滲入水中那這些物質已經知道是會影響海洋生物的他不是只有對人的生命海洋生物所以也就是環境部一開始說的如果太陽能板\n\n07:49.602 --> 08:00.210\n含有重金屬這個物質會有污染的風險請教部長您是否有掌握這次戴拉斯颱風所造成的整組的光電模組雖然你剛剛說結構材料成分的掌握是否有事先重金屬釋出的風險評估我想請問你一整套的光電模組從太陽能板浮動平台錨到接線箱潛水電纜完全沒有污染的可能性嗎完全沒有嗎\n\n08:19.790 --> 08:34.934\n包括如果說長期的話我認為是可能還是會逐漸的釋出出來因為例如說我到現場去看破碎的那個實際上的那個半導體的這個模組在上面其實如果他是用銅銅線背後包括的銀\n\n08:35.615 --> 08:53.176\n你們曾經有講過說你們主流的太陽能板中玻璃佔了74%以為是相對安全但是請問你所謂主流的太陽能板全台灣用的百分比多少就那一塊嗎全台灣主流你認為相對是安全的東西那整個台灣用的比例是多少才叫主流\n\n08:53.656 --> 09:04.403\n基本上大多數就是幾乎是這個樣子都是一模一樣的樣子因為那個基本上全世界大概都是這個樣子那當然這個研究我們也在搜集當中有超過40%嗎還是都是雜質有40%用這個你所謂的主流太陽能板嗎\n\n09:12.180 --> 09:27.101\n基本上這個太陽能板都是一樣的一個規格啦好我再了解一下這個資料那民進黨執政以來把相當多的資源放在投入光電並且將綠能視為引以為傲的一個政績但現在出事誰來負責請問彭部長我想知道現在暗場的\n\n09:27.782 --> 09:51.797\n這個副廠廠副的進度如何不然你有沒有去看左邊左下圖這張圖這個是嘉義你看到嘉義新聞光電廠案帳號像周的模樣喔那個颱風都過了好幾天喔但水上的光電廠還是一團亂請問這是哪一家業者是雲報能源還是台達電因為網路上這種說法都有啊那我看請問部長或市長誰能夠回答我這是誰家的這是誰家哪一家業者的\n\n09:55.180 --> 10:09.626\n這個其實昨天我有特別派我的署長到現場探勘其實這個照片是剛開始發生的其實現在已經有顯著的一個清楚了但是還是有堆置您有回答我是哪個業者是雲報能源還是台達電因為網路上是這樣說的我們有權利知道是誰的這個要請經濟部您不知道嗎沒有掌握嗎\n\n10:18.549 --> 10:45.432\n還是不能講跟委員說明新聞的這個損害的這個狀況我們因為這期先搭配要優先附電所以我們在163線的這個部分搭配附電然後優先搶修那除此之外的話這一些的破壞的模板都已經集中收集起來重建的錢誰來付這個預算的來源是誰提供\n\n10:47.014 --> 11:05.188\n永興這家公司是永興公司我想我想再請問等一下你他的cover的範圍有多少你以為這3%的這個受損受傷的官員沒有0.4%跟委員說明整個重建的過程要花多少錢這個要看整個整體的蒐集之後再來進行\n\n11:06.869 --> 11:11.611\n那我們全國大概有33個案場受到程度不一的損害那整體的損害率只佔我們所有的裝置的比率0.4%好彭部長我想請教彭部長這件事經濟部他是目的事業主管機關那是不是應該讓水上光電做一次完整的政策環評呢您過去的立場是政策環評\n\n11:32.421 --> 11:56.322\n我們是希望能源署可以來做啦我們也跟他們在磋商當中賴市長不好意思我還沒請你回座那你支持這個政策環評嗎縫電廠現在出事了你說如果是測試如果是測試那就是不合格嘛失敗嘛你這個號稱是花了1億多的一個費用這個研究計畫花了1億多你號稱可以用20年啊現在是證明不堪一擊啊\n\n11:59.525 --> 12:05.630\n首先跟委員說明旭東的案子它是一個試驗的計畫那整體的太安能的這個光電達到需要環評的這個標準我們都有實施環評那除此之外的話我們在這個月\n\n12:17.011 --> 12:39.518\n我們也在跟社會各利害關係人在溝通不管是在我們的環境部已經說要做環境部的職責提出來的意見我們都逐一的做一個相貴的一個答覆那至於營運中的這個案場的部分即便颱風清洗了布袋地區當天他其實他的發電量跟颱風錢還是相當的我們要有一個瞭解\n\n12:44.279 --> 13:09.091\n責任的歸屬費用的使用一次試驗的失敗那是業者自行負擔的政府不會去負擔這個部分那後續的清理的部分也是責任的部分也是業者的一個責任你掉到哪裡去了東西到底散播到什麼程度長期的影響是什麼這個我們會跟屏東縣政府跟海委會你要做的把關的部分嗎還是\n\n13:10.626 --> 13:12.594\n好那我今天就到這裡謝謝主席謝謝兩位謝謝委員謝謝部長\n\n","segments":[{"start":4.569,"end":19.979,"text":"謝謝主席 有請郭智慧部長有請郭智慧部長有請郭智慧部長好 暫時不打 缺席下一個有請賴次長好 賴次長走"},{"start":30.151,"end":39.931,"text":"那市長請教這個面對今天這麼重要的議題要詢答郭居輝部長無故請假請問他是不是藐視國會"},{"start":42.104,"end":61.353,"text":"報告委員並沒有因為昨天台電的員工因為感電發生了意外剛剛主席有說明他現在的身體的狀況非常的危急所以我們部長現在就堅持趕到現場部長有能力搶救是不是部長可以到醫院去搶救是不是這麼重要的議題經濟部惹出來的禍"},{"start":63.842,"end":90.119,"text":"報告委員對於國人的生命跟生活台電董事長他去關心員工是應該的我們對員工包括我自己我們要給予深深的祈福跟感謝包括現在正在搶救的消防員包括當然所有參與搶救的中油跟台電的員工但是我想請教你他現在在裝葉克模台灣第一葉克模專家是誰"},{"start":93.622,"end":117.977,"text":"不是柯文哲嗎?放他出去搶救是不是更有用?是不是有機會救回人命呢?曾文森行嗎?郭紀輝行嗎?我們也感謝衛福部,包括剛剛主席也有提到我們希望透過我們現在的醫學的量能來針對台電員工及於搶救我們回到今天的主題"},{"start":119.718,"end":122.819,"text":"上星期經濟部宣稱離岸光碟這個浮台是屬於實驗計畫都是為了要測試這個光電浮台的系統在海上的耐受性結果經濟部的澄清報告漏洞百出很快被抓包不僅僅是跟畜動業者他所聲稱的還有部分的這個光電板"},{"start":139.963,"end":154.027,"text":"沒有移除的說法不一樣那關鍵板的移除情形也跟屏東縣政府講的狀況不一樣那我想人民有全知道真相請問市長到底現在移除的情況是什麼真相是什麼如果這個連經濟部都沒辦法講清楚呢"},{"start":157.948,"end":167.499,"text":"他不是只是抗風浪測試嗎那抗風浪測試如果只放浮板只放浮板沒有放這個光電板測試什麼呢他在測試浮板嗎還是測試光電板的浮板呢好謝謝指導"},{"start":172.825,"end":197.202,"text":"我們這個測試的計畫確實在颱風來臨之前所有的光電板已經已移除那我們在媒體上面看到的這些各式各樣的說法 包括屏東縣政府 業者自己我們有多次的來發表相關的這個訊息讓民眾的知道那事實上這種所謂的海面型太陽能光電它的測試的部分有包括它的載具"},{"start":199.104,"end":205.452,"text":"面對風浪 抗風浪的這個情形那這次丹納斯颱風從你的答案就說全部撤除了是不是那我問你海底有清除嗎你海底有去追查嗎有沒有遭到海底的我們這個部分要再仔細的再密切的清查你怎麼能說全部撤除乾淨了呢"},{"start":215.586,"end":234.214,"text":"那颱風天警報它啟動的這個SOP按照機制應該撤除哪些部分應該撤除哪些 你有SOP吧 有沒有SOP丹娜斯7月6號晚上11點40分登錄之前我們在前一天經濟部透過請告訴我 直接告訴我要撤除根據這個SOP颱風天啟動的要撤除哪些這個裝置"},{"start":239.376,"end":248.123,"text":"所有的不管是太陽能光電或是離岸性的風電他必須要做一些固定的作業海底我們還不知道發生什麼事情好那這個我想講說離岸這個福臺它不是實驗你說是實驗這不是實驗遊戲場經濟部不應該用官方的帳號去幫光電業者背書這是完全錯誤的事情"},{"start":261.612,"end":275.781,"text":"絕對沒有這個事情我們面對於我們綠能的發展一向秉持公開透明你說他們全部移除他自己都說沒有移除啊我們不希望有任何貪圖的情形發生市長上週一本辦公室有發函索取這個旭東他辦理這個離岸太陽光電系統的福台的這個開發研究計畫那你們本來承諾說最晚11號要給我我是7月7號發公文的現在幾號了請問為什麼"},{"start":290.29,"end":319.02,"text":"到現在我還收不到 你的計劃書呢這段期間我們一直在救災那能源署也一直在調配當地的儲冷跟發電所以沒有辦法調出計劃書嗎 是這樣嗎容委員讓我說明一下委員所需要索取跟其他委員所需要索取的資料我們當天同仁跟委員的這個辦公室都會有一些聯絡那至於委員的這個部分其他的委員我知道我有看過能源署已經有把資料送出去了"},{"start":319.84,"end":335.058,"text":"我只要這個續動開發技術開發研究案的計畫書你們核准的計畫書我只要這個部分今天可以給我嗎今天這個東西都啟動計畫書之前程序都完成才會啟動研究機構大家都懂"},{"start":335.919,"end":349.864,"text":"那你要留下來修改資料嗎跟委員說明我們對於公眾利益的關心跟民眾權益的關心同等重要我們認為依照資訊公開法的這個部分我們希望有相關的法規等等等等資訊公開法這個是用公帑的涉及公共重大利益難道你要把這個資訊揭露的這個主導權交給廠商嗎你還要問這個綠油油嗎你還要問旭東嗎"},{"start":361.368,"end":389.896,"text":"他同意才行嗎他內部有一些他自己的公司的營運的基本的一個訊息那這個部分依照資訊公開法的部分我們必須要去依法執行市長你這個理由我們聽你的花我們的錢現在傷害了人民的性命家產你現在還告訴我說你的計畫是沒有辦法讓我看根本說明我們對所有的計畫無論在查核在督導甚至是針對保證的部分你該蓋的該塗黑的都塗黑你下午可以給我這個資料嗎你下午可以給嗎這個部分我們必須要依照資訊公開法的程序來處理7月7號我就發函了"},{"start":391.331,"end":402.078,"text":"你自信公安法要處理多久你要私下修改東西嗎你不得不讓我們這樣懷疑啊當然不可能我們會去做這種的行為那針對於你什麼時候可以給我呢我這個要求的過分嗎我們要看計畫書啊造成這麼大的問題"},{"start":405.635,"end":422.164,"text":"在合法合規的這個情況之下然後予以落實用公帑涉及公共利益的東西你們把資訊揭露權的主導權決定權交給廠商並沒有這回事這個案子在實施之前也有公開的聽證麻煩你稍後一下那個麻煩彭部長"},{"start":424.895,"end":428.239,"text":"董事長您一定聽實際有些2023年荷蘭有一家水利研究機構他報告指出當然你剛好做一些報告不過這是人家的研究報告損壞的太陽能板可能會將有毒物質跟重金屬釋入這個帶入這個海洋環境那太陽能的電磁板滲漏的這個一個"},{"start":442.938,"end":447.322,"text":"風險跟影響取決於他所用的材料就是離岸這個光電的浮板他所決定他會決定曝露的一個表面積例如這個鍍鋅鋼的或某些房屋塗層可能會讓鋅、鎳隔等這個都凍金屬滲入水中那這些物質已經知道是會影響海洋生物的他不是只有對人的生命海洋生物所以也就是環境部一開始說的如果太陽能板"},{"start":469.602,"end":480.21,"text":"含有重金屬這個物質會有污染的風險請教部長您是否有掌握這次戴拉斯颱風所造成的整組的光電模組雖然你剛剛說結構材料成分的掌握是否有事先重金屬釋出的風險評估我想請問你一整套的光電模組從太陽能板浮動平台 錨到接線箱 潛水電纜完全沒有污染的可能性嗎完全沒有嗎"},{"start":499.79,"end":514.934,"text":"包括如果說長期的話我認為是可能還是會逐漸的釋出出來因為例如說我到現場去看破碎的那個實際上的那個半導體的這個模組在上面其實如果他是用銅銅線背後包括的銀"},{"start":515.615,"end":533.176,"text":"你們曾經有講過說你們主流的太陽能板中玻璃佔了74%以為是相對安全但是請問你所謂主流的太陽能板全台灣用的百分比多少就那一塊嗎全台灣主流你認為相對是安全的東西那整個台灣用的比例是多少才叫主流"},{"start":533.656,"end":544.403,"text":"基本上大多數就是幾乎是這個樣子都是一模一樣的樣子因為那個基本上全世界大概都是這個樣子那當然這個研究我們也在搜集當中有超過40%嗎還是都是雜質有40%用這個你所謂的主流太陽能板嗎"},{"start":552.18,"end":567.101,"text":"基本上這個太陽能板都是一樣的一個規格啦好我再了解一下這個資料那民進黨執政以來把相當多的資源放在投入光電並且將綠能視為引以為傲的一個政績但現在出事誰來負責請問彭部長我想知道現在暗場的"},{"start":567.782,"end":591.797,"text":"這個副廠 廠副的進度如何不然你有沒有去看左邊 左下圖這張圖這個是嘉義 你看到 嘉義新聞光電廠案帳號像周的模樣喔 那個颱風都過了好幾天喔但水上的光電廠還是一團亂請問這是哪一家業者是雲報能源還是台達電因為網路上這種說法都有啊那我看請問部長或市長誰能夠回答我這是誰家的這是誰家 哪一家業者的"},{"start":595.18,"end":609.626,"text":"這個其實昨天我有特別派我的署長到現場探勘其實這個照片是剛開始發生的其實現在已經有顯著的一個清楚了但是還是有堆置您有回答我是哪個業者是雲報能源還是台達電因為網路上是這樣說的我們有權利知道是誰的這個要請經濟部您不知道嗎 沒有掌握嗎"},{"start":618.549,"end":645.432,"text":"還是不能講 跟委員說明新聞的這個損害的這個狀況我們因為這期先搭配 要優先附電所以我們在163線的這個部分搭配附電然後優先搶修那除此之外的話 這一些的破壞的模板都已經集中收集起來重建的錢誰來付這個預算的來源是誰提供"},{"start":647.014,"end":665.188,"text":"永興這家公司是永興公司我想我想再請問等一下你他的cover的範圍有多少你以為這3%的這個受損受傷的官員沒有0.4%跟委員說明整個重建的過程要花多少錢這個要看整個整體的蒐集之後再來進行"},{"start":666.869,"end":671.611,"text":"那我們全國大概有33個案場受到程度不一的損害那整體的損害率只佔我們所有的裝置的比率0.4%好 彭部長我想請教彭部長這件事經濟部他是目的事業主管機關那是不是應該讓水上光電做一次完整的政策環評呢您過去的立場是政策環評"},{"start":692.421,"end":716.322,"text":"我們是希望能源署可以來做啦我們也跟他們在磋商當中賴市長不好意思我還沒請你回座那你支持這個政策環評嗎縫電廠現在出事了你說如果是測試如果是測試那就是不合格嘛失敗嘛你這個號稱是花了1億多的一個費用這個研究計畫花了1億多你號稱可以用20年啊現在是證明不堪一擊啊"},{"start":719.525,"end":725.63,"text":"首先跟委員說明旭東的案子它是一個試驗的計畫那整體的太安能的這個光電達到需要環評的這個標準我們都有實施環評那除此之外的話我們在這個月"},{"start":737.011,"end":759.518,"text":"我們也在跟社會各利害關係人在溝通不管是在我們的環境部已經說要做環境部的職責提出來的意見我們都逐一的做一個相貴的一個答覆那至於營運中的這個案場的部分即便颱風清洗了布袋地區當天他其實他的發電量跟颱風錢還是相當的我們要有一個瞭解"},{"start":764.279,"end":789.091,"text":"責任的歸屬費用的使用一次試驗的失敗那是業者自行負擔的政府不會去負擔這個部分那後續的清理的部分也是責任的部分也是業者的一個責任你掉到哪裡去了東西到底散播到什麼程度長期的影響是什麼這個我們會跟屏東縣政府跟海委會你要做的把關的部分嗎還是"},{"start":790.626,"end":792.594,"text":"好 那我今天就到這裡 謝謝主席謝謝兩位 謝謝委員 謝謝部長"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":244,"blocks":[["陳委員昭姿：（9時21分）謝謝主席，有請郭智輝部長、有請郭智輝部長、有請郭智輝部長。好，3次不答，缺席。下一個，有請賴次長。"],["賴次長建信：委員好。"],["陳委員昭姿：賴次長早。賴次長，請教你，今天要針對這麼重要的議題進行詢答，郭智輝部長無故請假，請問他是不是藐視國會？"],["賴次長建信：報告委員，並沒有，在昨天台電有員工因為感電而發生意外，剛剛主席有說明他現在身體的狀況非常危急，所以我們部長現在就兼程趕到現場去慰問。"],["陳委員昭姿：部長是不是有能力搶救？部長是不是可以到醫院去進行搶救？今天這麼重要的議題，是經濟部惹出來的禍！"],["賴次長建信：報告委員，對於國人的生命跟生活，我們經濟部都同樣的重視。"],["陳委員昭姿：次長，台電董事長去關心員工是應該的，包括我自己，我們對員工要給予深深的祈福跟感謝，包括現在正在搶救的消防員，當然也包括所有參與搶救的中油、台電員工。但是我想請教你，他現在裝上葉克膜，臺灣第一的葉克膜專家是誰？不是柯文哲嗎？放他出去搶救，這樣是不是更有用？是不是有機會救回人命呢？曾文生行嗎？郭智輝行嗎？"],["賴次長建信：我們也很感謝衛福部，剛剛主席也有提到，我們希望透過現在醫學的量能來針對這個台電員工進行搶救，當然，我們對於現在……"],["陳委員昭姿：次長，我們回到今天的主題。上星期經濟部宣稱離岸光電這個浮台是屬於實驗計畫，都是為了要測試光電浮台系統在海上的耐受性，結果經濟部的澄清報告漏洞百出，很快被抓包了，不僅僅是跟旭東這個業者所聲稱的還有部分光電板沒有移除的說法不一樣，而且光電板的移除情形也跟屏東縣政府講的狀況不一樣，那我想人民有權知道真相，請問次長，現在移除的情況到底是怎麼樣？真相是什麼？連經濟部都沒辦法講清楚嗎？這不就只是抗風浪測試嗎？那抗風浪測試如果只放浮板，可是沒有放光電板，那要測試什麼呢？是在測試浮板嗎？還是測試光電板的浮板呢？請講清楚。"],["賴次長建信：謝謝委員的指導，關於我們這個測試的計畫，確實在颱風來臨之前所有的光電板均已移除，我們在媒體上面看到的這些照片都是浮台的部分。"],["陳委員昭姿：有各式各樣的說法，包括屏東縣政府、業者自己啊！"],["賴次長建信：我們也多次發表相關的訊息讓民眾知道，事實上，像這種海面型的太陽能光電，測試的部分包括它的載具、面對風浪時抗風浪的情形，這次丹娜絲颱風從……"],["陳委員昭姿：好，你的答案就是說全部撤除了，是不是？那我問你，海底有清除嗎？有去追查海底的部分嗎？有沒有掉到海底的？"],["賴次長建信：我們這個部分要再仔細密切地清查。"],["陳委員昭姿：是啊！你怎麼能說全部撤除乾淨了呢？颱風警報所啟動的SOP，按照機制應該撤除哪些部分？你有SOP吧，有沒有SOP？"],["賴次長建信：丹娜絲7月6號晚上11點40分登陸之前，經濟部在前一天透過災害緊急應變……"],["陳委員昭姿：請直接告訴我，根據這個SOP，颱風天啟動，需要撤除哪些裝置？"],["賴次長建信：所有的不管是太陽能光電或是離岸的風電，都必須要做一些固定的作業。"],["陳委員昭姿：好，不過海底我們還不知道發生什麼事情。我要講離岸浮台，你說是實驗，這不是實驗遊戲場，經濟部不應該用官方的帳號去幫光電業者背書，這是完全錯誤的示範。"],["賴次長建信：絕對沒有這個事情，面對綠能的發展，我們一向秉持公開透明，我們也……"],["陳委員昭姿：你說他們全部移除，他自己都說沒有移除乾淨啊。"],["賴次長建信：我們也不希望有任何貪瀆的情形發生。"],["陳委員昭姿：次長，上週一本辦公室有發函索取旭東辦理離岸太陽光電系統浮台的開發研究計畫，你們本來承諾最晚11號要給我，我是7月7號發公文的，現在幾號了？請問為什麼到現在我還收不到計畫書呢？"],["賴次長建信：這段期間我們一直在救災，能源署也一直在調配當地的儲能跟發電……"],["陳委員昭姿：所以沒有辦法調出計畫書嗎？是這樣嗎？"],["賴次長建信：委員容我說明一下，委員所需要索取跟其他委員所需要索取的資料，當天同仁跟委員的辦公室都會有聯絡……"],["陳委員昭姿：到今天還沒有收到啊！"],["賴次長建信：其他委員的部分，我知道、我有看過，能源署已經有把資料送出去了，至於……"],["陳委員昭姿：我只要旭東這個技術開發計畫案的計畫書，你們核准的計畫書，我只要這個部分，今天可以給我嗎？這個東西都啟動了，之前的程序都完成了計畫才會啟動，研究計畫大家都懂，你要留下來修改資料嗎？我今天就要，可以嗎？"],["賴次長建信：跟委員說明，我們對於公眾利益的關心跟民眾權益的關心同等重視，依照資訊公開法，我們希望有相關的法規，我們需要……"],["陳委員昭姿：等等、等等，資訊公開法？這是用公帑的，涉及重大公共利益，難道你要把這個資訊揭露的主導權交給廠商嗎？你還要問這個綠友友嗎？你還要問旭東嗎？它同意才行嗎？"],["賴次長建信：它內部有一些它自己公司營運的基本訊息，這個部分依照資訊公開法，我們必須要依法執行。"],["陳委員昭姿：次長，你這個理由我們聽膩了！花我們的錢，傷害了人民的性命、家產，你現在還告訴我說這個計畫書沒辦法讓我們看。"],["賴次長建信：跟委員說明，我們對於所有的計畫，無論在查核、在督導，甚至是針對法遵的部分……"],["陳委員昭姿：好，你該蓋的、該塗黑的都塗黑，你下午可以給我這個資料嗎？下午可以給嗎？"],["賴次長建信：這個部分我們必須要依照資訊公開法的程序來處理，謝謝。"],["陳委員昭姿：7月7號我就發函了，依資訊公開法要處理多久？你要私下修改東西嗎？這不得不讓我們這樣懷疑啊。"],["賴次長建信：我們當然不可能會去做這種行為，針對於當事人權益的部分……"],["陳委員昭姿：那什麼時候可以給我呢？我這個要求有過分嗎？我們要看計畫書，因為造成了這麼大的問題。"],["賴次長建信：政府也必須要在合法合規的情況之下予以落實。"],["陳委員昭姿：用公帑、涉及公共利益的東西，你們把資訊揭露的主導權、決定權交給廠商，我請媒體朋友來關注這個問題。"],["賴次長建信：並沒有這回事，這個案子在實施之前也有公開的聽證。"],["陳委員昭姿：次長，OK，麻煩你稍候一下。","麻煩請彭部長，彭部長，您一邊聽，時間有限。2023年荷蘭有一家水利研究機構Deltares，它的報告指出，當然你剛剛有做一些報告，不過這是人家的研究報告，損壞的太陽能板可能會將有毒物質跟重金屬釋入、帶入海洋環境，太陽能電池板滲漏的風險跟影響，取決於所用的材料，以及離岸光電浮台所決定的暴露面積，例如鍍鋅鋼或某些防污塗層可能會讓鋅、鎳、鉻等重金屬滲入水中，這些物質已知是會影響海洋生物，不是只有影響到人的生命，也會影響到海洋生物，也就是環境部一開始說的，如果太陽能板含有重金屬物質，會有污染的風險。請教部長，您是否有掌握這次丹娜絲颱風所造成災損的整組光電模組？雖然你剛剛做了報告，但你對於其結構材料成分是否有所掌握？是否事先有重金屬釋出的風險評估？我想請問你，一整套的光電模組，從太陽能板、浮動平台、錨到接線箱、潛水電纜，完全沒有污染的可能性嗎？完全沒有嗎？"],["彭部長啓明：報告委員，如果說長期的話，我認為可能還是會逐漸地釋出出來，因為我到現場去看實際上破碎的半導體模組在上面，它是用銅線背後包裹著銀……"],["陳委員昭姿：你們曾經有講過主流的太陽能板中玻璃占了74%。"],["彭部長啓明：對。"],["陳委員昭姿：你以為是相對安全，但是請問你所謂的主流的太陽能板，到底全臺灣用的百分比多少？就那一塊嗎？你認為相對是安全的東西，整個臺灣用的比例是多少才叫主流？"],["彭部長啓明：基本上大多數幾乎就是這個樣子，都是一模一樣的，全世界大概都是這樣，當然相關研究我們也在蒐集當中。"],["陳委員昭姿：多數嗎？比率大概是多少？有超過40%嗎？還是都是雜質？有40%用你所謂的主流太陽能板嗎？"],["彭部長啓明：基本上太陽能板都是一樣的規格。"],["陳委員昭姿：好，我再了解一下這個資料。民進黨執政以來，把相當多的資源投入光電，並且將綠能視為引以為傲的政績，但現在出事了，誰來負責？請問彭部長，我想知道現在案場的場復進度如何？部長，你有沒有看過左下角這張圖？這是嘉義新塭光電案場上週的模樣，那時颱風都過了好幾天，但水上的光電場還是一團亂，請問這是哪一家業者？是雲豹能源還是台達電？因為網路上各種說法都有，請問部長或次長，誰能夠回答我這是誰家的，哪一家業者的？"],["彭部長啓明：報告委員，昨天我有特別派署長到現場探勘，這個照片是剛開始發生時的，其實現在已經有顯著地清除了，但還是有堆置，所以……"],["陳委員昭姿：你沒有回答我是哪個業者啊。"],["彭部長啓明：業者的部分可能要請能源署……"],["陳委員昭姿：是雲豹能源還是台達電？因為網路上是這樣說的，我們有權利知道是誰的。"],["彭部長啓明：這個要請經濟部能源……"],["陳委員昭姿：您不知道、沒有掌握，還是不能講？"],["賴次長建信：跟委員說明，新塭損害的狀況，因為這期間搭配要優先復電……"],["陳委員昭姿：我不要聽損害狀況，我只要知道是哪一家業者。"],["賴次長建信：所以我們在163線的部分搭配復電，然後優先搶修，除此之外……"],["陳委員昭姿：我請教部長跟次長，我問重點。"],["賴次長建信：這些破壞的模板都已經集中收集起來。"],["陳委員昭姿：次長，不好意思，請尊重我的質詢權。重建的錢誰來付？"],["賴次長建信：永鑫。"],["陳委員昭姿：這個預算的來源是誰提供？"],["賴次長建信：這家公司是永鑫公司。"],["陳委員昭姿：我想再請問，它cover的範圍有多少？你以為以3%受損的部分來處理就好了嗎？"],["賴次長建信：0.4%，跟委員說明，0.4%。"],["陳委員昭姿：整個重建的過程要花多少錢？都漂到澎湖去了！"],["賴次長建信：這要看整體收集完之後，再來進行估算。"],["陳委員昭姿：它要付到什麼程度，當初的合約有沒有寫？"],["賴次長建信：我們全國大概有33個案場受到程度不一的損害……"],["陳委員昭姿：是啊！還沒有評估是誰的責任啊，怎麼追究錢、重建費用？"],["賴次長建信：總體的損害率只占我們所有裝置比率的0.4%。"],["陳委員昭姿：好，請彭部長，我想請教彭部長這件事，經濟部是目的事業主管機關，是不是應該讓水上光電做一次完整的政策環評？您過去的立場是政策環評。"],["彭部長啓明：我們是希望能源署可以來做，我們也跟他們在磋商當中。"],["陳委員昭姿：好，你希望能夠做政策環評。","賴次長，不好意思，我還沒請你回座，你支持這個政策環評嗎？光電場現在出事了，你如果說是測試，那就是不合格嘛、失敗嘛，這個花了一億多的費用，這個研究計畫花了一億多，你號稱可以用20年，現在證明是不堪一擊，颱風不過……"],["賴次長建信：首先跟委員說明，旭東的案子是一個試驗的計畫……"],["陳委員昭姿：那試驗失敗了，結論是試驗失敗。"],["賴次長建信：整體的太陽能光電達到需要環評的標準，我們都有實施環評，除此之外，我們在這個月……"],["陳委員昭姿：我講的是環評政策，你會不會允許先做環評政策？這是預先的評估。"],["賴次長建信：我們也在跟社會各利害關係人溝通，不管是在……"],["陳委員昭姿：環境部已經說要做了，這是環境部的職責，你要配合嗎？"],["賴次長建信：環團所提出來的意見，我們都逐一地做相對的答復；至於營運中的案場部分，即便颱風侵襲了布袋地區，當天其實它的發電量跟颱風前還是相當的。"],["陳委員昭姿：次長，未來重建的所有費用，我們要有一個了解，責任的歸屬、費用的使用以至試驗的失敗……"],["賴次長建信：那是業者自行負擔的，政府不會去負擔這個部分，後續清理部分的責任也是業者的責任。"],["陳委員昭姿：你現在連災害的狀況都不知道，我還想問你海底有沒有？掉到哪裡去了，東西到底散播到什麼程度？長期的影響是什麼？"],["賴次長建信：這個我們會跟屏東縣政府跟海委會……"],["陳委員昭姿：政策環評有需要啊，這是環境部的職責，要做的是把關的部分。"],["賴次長建信：是。"],["陳委員昭姿：好，那我今天就到這裡，謝謝主席，超過時間了，謝謝兩位。"],["賴次長建信：好，謝謝。"],["主席（陳委員菁徽代）：謝謝委員，謝謝部長、次長。","下一位我們請蘇清泉召委。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":238,"meet_id":"委員會-11-3-26-20","speakers":["蘇清泉","陳昭姿","林月琴","邱鎮軍","王育敏","廖偉翔","涂權吉","陳菁徽","黃秀芳","林淑芬","王正旭","黃國昌","楊曜","陳培瑜","劉建國","陳冠廷","陳瑩","盧縣一","徐欣瑩"],"page_start":145,"meetingDate":["2025-07-16"],"gazette_id":"1146701","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1146701_00004"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第20次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請環境部部長、經濟部部長、海洋委員會、農業部、內政部、國防部、金融監督管理委員會針\n對「光電設施對環境影響情形」進行專題報告，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1146701_00003"}}}