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00:00:31,011\n我們今天在媒體的報導裡面賴總統將以八月份的出訪到中南美洲友邦並過境紐約及達瓦斯這個行程安排是否已經確定\n\n3\n00:00:33,502 --> 00:00:59,895\n根據總統府昨天說我們要是有確切的安排總統府統一對外的說明會儘早的對外說明好本席關心這個行程的目的尤其是媒體的報導中提到賴總統可能在行程當中宣布向美國大規模的採購民航客機請問一下向美大規模採購民航客機是否已經確定這一次對於關稅談判的籌碼之一\n\n4\n00:01:03,477 --> 00:01:23,508\n還是我方在台積電和天然氣外又一次單方面向美國示好所以本期看來最後的關稅額度到底傳言是百分之十、百分之五、百分之二十還是也維持百分之三十二這個部分\n\n5\n00:01:25,029 --> 00:01:41,902\n第一個是說我們對於這個最終的一個稅率我們不做猜測但是我們一定協助行政院的經貿團隊那麼盡全力的跟美方溝通能夠取得互利互惠的根據這個互利互惠的原則上面爭取最低的一個稅率對我國產業對我們的這個國家利益最少的這個衝擊\n\n6\n00:01:47,026 --> 00:02:02,018\n那麼第二個是說是不是各種各樣的採購案除了我們已經宣布的之外是不是還有新的採購案我想這還是在雙方的談判的過程那麼我們不變這個對外透露像剛才陳永康委員也有提的很清楚在裡面稱得到\n\n7\n00:02:02,578 --> 00:02:23,536\n很多的細微的部分很抱歉在上面我們不太方便在這個時候推翻跟美方達成的一些共識那麼提供更完整的資訊但是誠意一定都在現在在普羅大眾現在的想法什麼關稅好像已經不是重點\n\n8\n00:02:24,696 --> 00:02:52,560\n主要的原因有兩點第一個在我國匯率短期狂升在15%以後台灣的中小企業早已經活不下去更慘所以即使關稅只有10%企業面對的還是沒有最慘只有更慘都是死路一條所以今天我們要談的談的什麼\n\n9\n00:02:54,703 --> 00:03:17,928\n從公布國家稅例看來,稅例只是川普政策的一個功績美國正在做的是用此功績逼迫各國百分之百的滿足其需求所謂的談判根本不是談判,而是單向輸送利益給美國所以本席不會問今天關稅有多少\n\n10\n00:03:18,428 --> 00:03:35,294\n而是要問我們付出的代價是什麼那請問一下我們經貿我們經貿的代表回答一下目前已經確定付出的代價有哪些項目經貿可能你們可能會認為說不方便透露\n\n11\n00:03:36,574 --> 00:04:00,102\n但是今天我要提的是本席問已經是確定的項目既然已經確定就不會影響談判的結果比如要擴大經購台積電赴美天然氣易購惠利狂升都是已經確定的那你後面還有什麼跟美國將來以後對我們國內要求的什麼樣的一個問題\n\n12\n00:04:04,013 --> 00:04:18,326\n謝謝委員的提問我想第一個我先澄清的匯率問題不在我們台美經貿工作小組的談判範圍因為從我們的對口是貿易代表署USTR以及商務部是我們主要也要敗匯的對象\n\n13\n00:04:19,332 --> 00:04:43,417\n就知道匯率不是我們處理的議題所以首先澄清這個問題第二個就是您提到我們有沒有一些已經確定的共識我想任何的談判它的討論過程都是沒有一個議題只要有一個議題還沒有確定所有的議題都沒有達到共識所以現在我們不能在沒有達到最後的共識之前我們現在沒有一個議題\n\n14\n00:04:44,597 --> 00:05:10,577\n是已經可以確定然後可以在這個現階段來進行透露的所以這個還要請委員見諒台灣的中小企業已經快活不下去了所以這個部分你們要神聖的對我們的整個的稅率包含我們的關稅一定要著重在以台灣國內生存之際最重要那另外就是我想請問一下我們國安局\n\n15\n00:05:18,783 --> 00:05:22,807\n目前總統府放出總統已在華府經貿談判團隊視訊會議照片中結果代表團\n\n16\n00:05:40,199 --> 00:06:02,920\n代表团中出现了我们国安局长,那引发不少的质疑。那根据国安局国家安全局组织法第三条,国安局的职责范畴是勤收、勤演、正副总统安全等情报和安全工作,因此对国安局长出现在与经贸谈判的团队中,\n\n17\n00:06:03,500 --> 00:06:17,846\n不免引發大家的一個好奇請問一下我們副局長蔡局長為經貿談判代表團的成員原因是什麼之前沒有發生過這一次為什麼有那麼特別那\n\n18\n00:06:18,686 --> 00:06:43,024\n國安局你來回答一下是我想國安局蔡局長接同經貿談判代表來參加這個談判那我想國安局他所負責的面向除了剛剛我們所講的這些經濟安全經貿安全是國安局的一環所以是提供我們經貿這個安全經貿安全這個專業來給那個小組來做相關的一個執行\n\n19\n00:06:48,007 --> 00:07:09,038\n是他的目的是在這裡好那如果是這一次一個這麼大的一個層面去的應該是國安會的秘書長那局長代表團陳彥之一是不是表示在對美談判的中我國除了要付付出經貿的代價外\n\n20\n00:07:09,698 --> 00:07:25,189\n還要付出一個政治的代價這個政治代價是什麼根據國安局過去曾多次表示台美情報交流緊密順暢所以這個代價不是情資提供所以這樣的一個過程裡面應該是國安會的秘書長來代表才對\n\n21\n00:07:33,097 --> 00:07:47,605\n我想這個是由國安會是談判小組的一員他的一個成員那國安局當然在國安會底下那接受到指派都是有可能來參加這個談判好那請問一下我們金茂這個談判代表\n\n22\n00:08:03,177 --> 00:08:14,042\n既然我們國家安全局長為談判團隊的成員美國的談判代表中有沒有美國情報部門的相應代表\n\n23\n00:08:16,902 --> 00:08:34,976\n那個報告委員我想我們談判代表的組成他也是基本上也是有默契大家不揭露這些問題因為他實際上也代表了我們可能如果說沒有美國情報部門的這個相應代表的話那我們國安局局長去那邊就沒有意義了是吧\n\n24\n00:08:36,363 --> 00:08:53,022\n我想剛才國安局我們的副局長有提到他們是有提供這些跟經濟安全有關的資訊一般而言勤之機關首長的出國行程都是一個保密的例如之前曾經發生過陳明通局長前局長任內出訪泰國前鎮戰局長\n\n25\n00:08:58,408 --> 00:09:17,943\n檢視為赴夏威夷行程遭大陸媒體曝光當時國內一片嘩然甚至有媒體說匪諜就在你身邊請問一下副局長總統府曝光國安局長在美國這樣的一個場合合適嗎難道不是匪諜就在總統府嗎我想這個\n\n26\n00:09:22,991 --> 00:09:38,989\n國安局他參加這個談判的成員是有他的一個用意存在啦我剛剛的報告就是經濟安全經貿安全是我們的一個禽收員的一個重要工作提供給談判小組做諮詢這邊再說明一下\n\n27\n00:09:41,212 --> 00:09:55,704\n如果我們國家安全局長有赴美代表談判的一個成員之一也應該有美國情報相關單位來列席這才是一個對等的一個談判這樣對國內來講\n\n28\n00:09:59,387 --> 00:10:12,620\n或許會有一點交代可是總統府這樣曝光了我們國安局長因為這是一個保密嘛好不好這一點是來跟你們提示這樣一個問題所在以上\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n289\t1551\t那根據喔 就是\n19352\t31011\t我們今天在媒體的報導裡面賴總統將以八月份的出訪到中南美洲友邦並過境紐約及達瓦斯這個行程安排是否已經確定\n33502\t59895\t根據總統府昨天說我們要是有確切的安排總統府統一對外的說明會儘早的對外說明好 本席關心這個行程的目的尤其是媒體的報導中提到賴總統可能在行程當中宣布向美國大規模的採購民航客機請問一下向美大規模採購民航客機是否已經確定這一次對於關稅談判的籌碼之一\n63477\t83508\t還是我方在台積電和天然氣外又一次單方面向美國示好所以本期看來最後的關稅額度到底傳言是百分之十、百分之五、百分之二十還是也維持百分之三十二這個部分\n85029\t101902\t第一個是說我們對於這個最終的一個稅率我們不做猜測但是我們一定協助行政院的經貿團隊那麼盡全力的跟美方溝通能夠取得互利互惠的根據這個互利互惠的原則上面爭取最低的一個稅率對我國產業對我們的這個國家利益最少的這個衝擊\n107026\t122018\t那麼第二個是說是不是各種各樣的採購案除了我們已經宣布的之外是不是還有新的採購案我想這還是在雙方的談判的過程那麼我們不變這個對外透露像剛才陳永康委員也有提的很清楚在裡面稱得到\n122578\t143536\t很多的細微的部分很抱歉在上面我們不太方便在這個時候推翻跟美方達成的一些共識那麼提供更完整的資訊但是誠意一定都在現在在普羅大眾現在的想法什麼關稅好像已經不是重點\n144696\t172560\t主要的原因有兩點第一個在我國匯率短期狂升在15%以後台灣的中小企業早已經活不下去更慘所以即使關稅只有10%企業面對的還是沒有最慘只有更慘都是死路一條所以今天我們要談的談的什麼\n174703\t197928\t從公布國家稅例看來,稅例只是川普政策的一個功績美國正在做的是用此功績逼迫各國百分之百的滿足其需求所謂的談判根本不是談判,而是單向輸送利益給美國所以本席不會問今天關稅有多少\n198428\t215294\t而是要問我們付出的代價是什麼那請問一下我們經貿我們經貿的代表回答一下目前已經確定付出的代價有哪些項目經貿可能你們可能會認為說不方便透露\n216574\t240102\t但是今天我要提的是本席問已經是確定的項目既然已經確定就不會影響談判的結果比如要擴大經購台積電赴美天然氣易購惠利狂升都是已經確定的那你後面還有什麼跟美國將來以後對我們國內要求的什麼樣的一個問題\n244013\t258326\t謝謝委員的提問我想第一個我先澄清的匯率問題不在我們台美經貿工作小組的談判範圍因為從我們的對口是貿易代表署USTR以及商務部是我們主要也要敗匯的對象\n259332\t283417\t就知道匯率不是我們處理的議題所以首先澄清這個問題第二個就是您提到我們有沒有一些已經確定的共識我想任何的談判它的討論過程都是沒有一個議題只要有一個議題還沒有確定所有的議題都沒有達到共識所以現在我們不能在沒有達到最後的共識之前我們現在沒有一個議題\n284597\t310577\t是已經可以確定然後可以在這個現階段來進行透露的所以這個還要請委員見諒台灣的中小企業已經快活不下去了所以這個部分你們要神聖的對我們的整個的稅率包含我們的關稅一定要著重在以台灣國內生存之際最重要那另外就是我想請問一下我們國安局\n318783\t322807\t目前總統府放出總統已在華府經貿談判團隊視訊會議照片中結果代表團\n340199\t362920\t代表团中出现了我们国安局长,那引发不少的质疑。那根据国安局国家安全局组织法第三条,国安局的职责范畴是勤收、勤演、正副总统安全等情报和安全工作,因此对国安局长出现在与经贸谈判的团队中,\n363500\t377846\t不免引發大家的一個好奇請問一下我們副局長蔡局長為經貿談判代表團的成員原因是什麼之前沒有發生過這一次為什麼有那麼特別那\n378686\t403024\t國安局你來回答一下是我想國安局蔡局長接同經貿談判代表來參加這個談判那我想國安局他所負責的面向除了剛剛我們所講的這些經濟安全經貿安全是國安局的一環所以是提供我們經貿這個安全經貿安全這個專業來給那個小組來做相關的一個執行\n408007\t429038\t是他的目的是在這裡好那如果是這一次一個這麼大的一個層面去的應該是國安會的秘書長那局長代表團陳彥之一是不是表示在對美談判的中我國除了要付付出經貿的代價外\n429698\t445189\t還要付出一個政治的代價這個政治代價是什麼根據國安局過去曾多次表示台美情報交流緊密順暢所以這個代價不是情資提供所以這樣的一個過程裡面應該是國安會的秘書長來代表才對\n453097\t467605\t我想這個是由國安會是談判小組的一員他的一個成員那國安局當然在國安會底下那接受到指派都是有可能來參加這個談判好那請問一下我們金茂這個談判代表\n483177\t494042\t既然我們國家安全局長為談判團隊的成員美國的談判代表中有沒有美國情報部門的相應代表\n496902\t514976\t那個報告委員我想我們談判代表的組成他也是基本上也是有默契大家不揭露這些問題因為他實際上也代表了我們可能如果說沒有美國情報部門的這個相應代表的話那我們國安局局長去那邊就沒有意義了是吧\n516363\t533022\t我想剛才國安局我們的副局長有提到他們是有提供這些跟經濟安全有關的資訊一般而言 勤之機關首長的出國行程都是一個保密的例如之前曾經發生過陳明通局長 前局長任內出訪泰國 前鎮戰局長\n538408\t557943\t檢視為赴夏威夷行程遭大陸媒體曝光當時國內一片嘩然甚至有媒體說匪諜就在你身邊請問一下副局長總統府曝光國安局長在美國這樣的一個場合合適嗎難道不是匪諜就在總統府嗎我想這個\n562991\t578989\t國安局他參加這個談判的成員是有他的一個用意存在啦我剛剛的報告就是經濟安全經貿安全是我們的一個禽收員的一個重要工作提供給談判小組做諮詢這邊再說明一下\n581212\t595704\t如果我們國家安全局長有赴美代表談判的一個成員之一也應該有美國情報相關單位來列席這才是一個對等的一個談判這樣對國內來講\n599387\t612620\t或許會有一點交代可是總統府這樣曝光了我們國安局長因為這是一個保密嘛好不好這一點是來跟你們提示這樣一個問題所在以上\n","txt":"那根據喔 就是\n我們今天在媒體的報導裡面賴總統將以八月份的出訪到中南美洲友邦並過境紐約及達瓦斯這個行程安排是否已經確定\n根據總統府昨天說我們要是有確切的安排總統府統一對外的說明會儘早的對外說明好 本席關心這個行程的目的尤其是媒體的報導中提到賴總統可能在行程當中宣布向美國大規模的採購民航客機請問一下向美大規模採購民航客機是否已經確定這一次對於關稅談判的籌碼之一\n還是我方在台積電和天然氣外又一次單方面向美國示好所以本期看來最後的關稅額度到底傳言是百分之十、百分之五、百分之二十還是也維持百分之三十二這個部分\n第一個是說我們對於這個最終的一個稅率我們不做猜測但是我們一定協助行政院的經貿團隊那麼盡全力的跟美方溝通能夠取得互利互惠的根據這個互利互惠的原則上面爭取最低的一個稅率對我國產業對我們的這個國家利益最少的這個衝擊\n那麼第二個是說是不是各種各樣的採購案除了我們已經宣布的之外是不是還有新的採購案我想這還是在雙方的談判的過程那麼我們不變這個對外透露像剛才陳永康委員也有提的很清楚在裡面稱得到\n很多的細微的部分很抱歉在上面我們不太方便在這個時候推翻跟美方達成的一些共識那麼提供更完整的資訊但是誠意一定都在現在在普羅大眾現在的想法什麼關稅好像已經不是重點\n主要的原因有兩點第一個在我國匯率短期狂升在15%以後台灣的中小企業早已經活不下去更慘所以即使關稅只有10%企業面對的還是沒有最慘只有更慘都是死路一條所以今天我們要談的談的什麼\n從公布國家稅例看來,稅例只是川普政策的一個功績美國正在做的是用此功績逼迫各國百分之百的滿足其需求所謂的談判根本不是談判,而是單向輸送利益給美國所以本席不會問今天關稅有多少\n而是要問我們付出的代價是什麼那請問一下我們經貿我們經貿的代表回答一下目前已經確定付出的代價有哪些項目經貿可能你們可能會認為說不方便透露\n但是今天我要提的是本席問已經是確定的項目既然已經確定就不會影響談判的結果比如要擴大經購台積電赴美天然氣易購惠利狂升都是已經確定的那你後面還有什麼跟美國將來以後對我們國內要求的什麼樣的一個問題\n謝謝委員的提問我想第一個我先澄清的匯率問題不在我們台美經貿工作小組的談判範圍因為從我們的對口是貿易代表署USTR以及商務部是我們主要也要敗匯的對象\n就知道匯率不是我們處理的議題所以首先澄清這個問題第二個就是您提到我們有沒有一些已經確定的共識我想任何的談判它的討論過程都是沒有一個議題只要有一個議題還沒有確定所有的議題都沒有達到共識所以現在我們不能在沒有達到最後的共識之前我們現在沒有一個議題\n是已經可以確定然後可以在這個現階段來進行透露的所以這個還要請委員見諒台灣的中小企業已經快活不下去了所以這個部分你們要神聖的對我們的整個的稅率包含我們的關稅一定要著重在以台灣國內生存之際最重要那另外就是我想請問一下我們國安局\n目前總統府放出總統已在華府經貿談判團隊視訊會議照片中結果代表團\n代表团中出现了我们国安局长,那引发不少的质疑。那根据国安局国家安全局组织法第三条,国安局的职责范畴是勤收、勤演、正副总统安全等情报和安全工作,因此对国安局长出现在与经贸谈判的团队中,\n不免引發大家的一個好奇請問一下我們副局長蔡局長為經貿談判代表團的成員原因是什麼之前沒有發生過這一次為什麼有那麼特別那\n國安局你來回答一下是我想國安局蔡局長接同經貿談判代表來參加這個談判那我想國安局他所負責的面向除了剛剛我們所講的這些經濟安全經貿安全是國安局的一環所以是提供我們經貿這個安全經貿安全這個專業來給那個小組來做相關的一個執行\n是他的目的是在這裡好那如果是這一次一個這麼大的一個層面去的應該是國安會的秘書長那局長代表團陳彥之一是不是表示在對美談判的中我國除了要付付出經貿的代價外\n還要付出一個政治的代價這個政治代價是什麼根據國安局過去曾多次表示台美情報交流緊密順暢所以這個代價不是情資提供所以這樣的一個過程裡面應該是國安會的秘書長來代表才對\n我想這個是由國安會是談判小組的一員他的一個成員那國安局當然在國安會底下那接受到指派都是有可能來參加這個談判好那請問一下我們金茂這個談判代表\n既然我們國家安全局長為談判團隊的成員美國的談判代表中有沒有美國情報部門的相應代表\n那個報告委員我想我們談判代表的組成他也是基本上也是有默契大家不揭露這些問題因為他實際上也代表了我們可能如果說沒有美國情報部門的這個相應代表的話那我們國安局局長去那邊就沒有意義了是吧\n我想剛才國安局我們的副局長有提到他們是有提供這些跟經濟安全有關的資訊一般而言 勤之機關首長的出國行程都是一個保密的例如之前曾經發生過陳明通局長 前局長任內出訪泰國 前鎮戰局長\n檢視為赴夏威夷行程遭大陸媒體曝光當時國內一片嘩然甚至有媒體說匪諜就在你身邊請問一下副局長總統府曝光國安局長在美國這樣的一個場合合適嗎難道不是匪諜就在總統府嗎我想這個\n國安局他參加這個談判的成員是有他的一個用意存在啦我剛剛的報告就是經濟安全經貿安全是我們的一個禽收員的一個重要工作提供給談判小組做諮詢這邊再說明一下\n如果我們國家安全局長有赴美代表談判的一個成員之一也應該有美國情報相關單位來列席這才是一個對等的一個談判這樣對國內來講\n或許會有一點交代可是總統府這樣曝光了我們國安局長因為這是一個保密嘛好不好這一點是來跟你們提示這樣一個問題所在以上\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.289 --> 00:01.551\n那根據喔就是\n\n00:19.352 --> 00:31.011\n我們今天在媒體的報導裡面賴總統將以八月份的出訪到中南美洲友邦並過境紐約及達瓦斯這個行程安排是否已經確定\n\n00:33.502 --> 00:59.895\n根據總統府昨天說我們要是有確切的安排總統府統一對外的說明會儘早的對外說明好本席關心這個行程的目的尤其是媒體的報導中提到賴總統可能在行程當中宣布向美國大規模的採購民航客機請問一下向美大規模採購民航客機是否已經確定這一次對於關稅談判的籌碼之一\n\n01:03.477 --> 01:23.508\n還是我方在台積電和天然氣外又一次單方面向美國示好所以本期看來最後的關稅額度到底傳言是百分之十、百分之五、百分之二十還是也維持百分之三十二這個部分\n\n01:25.029 --> 01:41.902\n第一個是說我們對於這個最終的一個稅率我們不做猜測但是我們一定協助行政院的經貿團隊那麼盡全力的跟美方溝通能夠取得互利互惠的根據這個互利互惠的原則上面爭取最低的一個稅率對我國產業對我們的這個國家利益最少的這個衝擊\n\n01:47.026 --> 02:02.018\n那麼第二個是說是不是各種各樣的採購案除了我們已經宣布的之外是不是還有新的採購案我想這還是在雙方的談判的過程那麼我們不變這個對外透露像剛才陳永康委員也有提的很清楚在裡面稱得到\n\n02:02.578 --> 02:23.536\n很多的細微的部分很抱歉在上面我們不太方便在這個時候推翻跟美方達成的一些共識那麼提供更完整的資訊但是誠意一定都在現在在普羅大眾現在的想法什麼關稅好像已經不是重點\n\n02:24.696 --> 02:52.560\n主要的原因有兩點第一個在我國匯率短期狂升在15%以後台灣的中小企業早已經活不下去更慘所以即使關稅只有10%企業面對的還是沒有最慘只有更慘都是死路一條所以今天我們要談的談的什麼\n\n02:54.703 --> 03:17.928\n從公布國家稅例看來,稅例只是川普政策的一個功績美國正在做的是用此功績逼迫各國百分之百的滿足其需求所謂的談判根本不是談判,而是單向輸送利益給美國所以本席不會問今天關稅有多少\n\n03:18.428 --> 03:35.294\n而是要問我們付出的代價是什麼那請問一下我們經貿我們經貿的代表回答一下目前已經確定付出的代價有哪些項目經貿可能你們可能會認為說不方便透露\n\n03:36.574 --> 04:00.102\n但是今天我要提的是本席問已經是確定的項目既然已經確定就不會影響談判的結果比如要擴大經購台積電赴美天然氣易購惠利狂升都是已經確定的那你後面還有什麼跟美國將來以後對我們國內要求的什麼樣的一個問題\n\n04:04.013 --> 04:18.326\n謝謝委員的提問我想第一個我先澄清的匯率問題不在我們台美經貿工作小組的談判範圍因為從我們的對口是貿易代表署USTR以及商務部是我們主要也要敗匯的對象\n\n04:19.332 --> 04:43.417\n就知道匯率不是我們處理的議題所以首先澄清這個問題第二個就是您提到我們有沒有一些已經確定的共識我想任何的談判它的討論過程都是沒有一個議題只要有一個議題還沒有確定所有的議題都沒有達到共識所以現在我們不能在沒有達到最後的共識之前我們現在沒有一個議題\n\n04:44.597 --> 05:10.577\n是已經可以確定然後可以在這個現階段來進行透露的所以這個還要請委員見諒台灣的中小企業已經快活不下去了所以這個部分你們要神聖的對我們的整個的稅率包含我們的關稅一定要著重在以台灣國內生存之際最重要那另外就是我想請問一下我們國安局\n\n05:18.783 --> 05:22.807\n目前總統府放出總統已在華府經貿談判團隊視訊會議照片中結果代表團\n\n05:40.199 --> 06:02.920\n代表团中出现了我们国安局长,那引发不少的质疑。那根据国安局国家安全局组织法第三条,国安局的职责范畴是勤收、勤演、正副总统安全等情报和安全工作,因此对国安局长出现在与经贸谈判的团队中,\n\n06:03.500 --> 06:17.846\n不免引發大家的一個好奇請問一下我們副局長蔡局長為經貿談判代表團的成員原因是什麼之前沒有發生過這一次為什麼有那麼特別那\n\n06:18.686 --> 06:43.024\n國安局你來回答一下是我想國安局蔡局長接同經貿談判代表來參加這個談判那我想國安局他所負責的面向除了剛剛我們所講的這些經濟安全經貿安全是國安局的一環所以是提供我們經貿這個安全經貿安全這個專業來給那個小組來做相關的一個執行\n\n06:48.007 --> 07:09.038\n是他的目的是在這裡好那如果是這一次一個這麼大的一個層面去的應該是國安會的秘書長那局長代表團陳彥之一是不是表示在對美談判的中我國除了要付付出經貿的代價外\n\n07:09.698 --> 07:25.189\n還要付出一個政治的代價這個政治代價是什麼根據國安局過去曾多次表示台美情報交流緊密順暢所以這個代價不是情資提供所以這樣的一個過程裡面應該是國安會的秘書長來代表才對\n\n07:33.097 --> 07:47.605\n我想這個是由國安會是談判小組的一員他的一個成員那國安局當然在國安會底下那接受到指派都是有可能來參加這個談判好那請問一下我們金茂這個談判代表\n\n08:03.177 --> 08:14.042\n既然我們國家安全局長為談判團隊的成員美國的談判代表中有沒有美國情報部門的相應代表\n\n08:16.902 --> 08:34.976\n那個報告委員我想我們談判代表的組成他也是基本上也是有默契大家不揭露這些問題因為他實際上也代表了我們可能如果說沒有美國情報部門的這個相應代表的話那我們國安局局長去那邊就沒有意義了是吧\n\n08:36.363 --> 08:53.022\n我想剛才國安局我們的副局長有提到他們是有提供這些跟經濟安全有關的資訊一般而言勤之機關首長的出國行程都是一個保密的例如之前曾經發生過陳明通局長前局長任內出訪泰國前鎮戰局長\n\n08:58.408 --> 09:17.943\n檢視為赴夏威夷行程遭大陸媒體曝光當時國內一片嘩然甚至有媒體說匪諜就在你身邊請問一下副局長總統府曝光國安局長在美國這樣的一個場合合適嗎難道不是匪諜就在總統府嗎我想這個\n\n09:22.991 --> 09:38.989\n國安局他參加這個談判的成員是有他的一個用意存在啦我剛剛的報告就是經濟安全經貿安全是我們的一個禽收員的一個重要工作提供給談判小組做諮詢這邊再說明一下\n\n09:41.212 --> 09:55.704\n如果我們國家安全局長有赴美代表談判的一個成員之一也應該有美國情報相關單位來列席這才是一個對等的一個談判這樣對國內來講\n\n09:59.387 --> 10:12.620\n或許會有一點交代可是總統府這樣曝光了我們國安局長因為這是一個保密嘛好不好這一點是來跟你們提示這樣一個問題所在以上\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.289,"end":1.551,"text":"那根據喔 就是"},{"start":19.352,"end":31.011,"text":"我們今天在媒體的報導裡面賴總統將以八月份的出訪到中南美洲友邦並過境紐約及達瓦斯這個行程安排是否已經確定"},{"start":33.502,"end":59.895,"text":"根據總統府昨天說我們要是有確切的安排總統府統一對外的說明會儘早的對外說明好 本席關心這個行程的目的尤其是媒體的報導中提到賴總統可能在行程當中宣布向美國大規模的採購民航客機請問一下向美大規模採購民航客機是否已經確定這一次對於關稅談判的籌碼之一"},{"start":63.477,"end":83.508,"text":"還是我方在台積電和天然氣外又一次單方面向美國示好所以本期看來最後的關稅額度到底傳言是百分之十、百分之五、百分之二十還是也維持百分之三十二這個部分"},{"start":85.029,"end":101.902,"text":"第一個是說我們對於這個最終的一個稅率我們不做猜測但是我們一定協助行政院的經貿團隊那麼盡全力的跟美方溝通能夠取得互利互惠的根據這個互利互惠的原則上面爭取最低的一個稅率對我國產業對我們的這個國家利益最少的這個衝擊"},{"start":107.026,"end":122.018,"text":"那麼第二個是說是不是各種各樣的採購案除了我們已經宣布的之外是不是還有新的採購案我想這還是在雙方的談判的過程那麼我們不變這個對外透露像剛才陳永康委員也有提的很清楚在裡面稱得到"},{"start":122.578,"end":143.536,"text":"很多的細微的部分很抱歉在上面我們不太方便在這個時候推翻跟美方達成的一些共識那麼提供更完整的資訊但是誠意一定都在現在在普羅大眾現在的想法什麼關稅好像已經不是重點"},{"start":144.696,"end":172.56,"text":"主要的原因有兩點第一個在我國匯率短期狂升在15%以後台灣的中小企業早已經活不下去更慘所以即使關稅只有10%企業面對的還是沒有最慘只有更慘都是死路一條所以今天我們要談的談的什麼"},{"start":174.703,"end":197.928,"text":"從公布國家稅例看來,稅例只是川普政策的一個功績美國正在做的是用此功績逼迫各國百分之百的滿足其需求所謂的談判根本不是談判,而是單向輸送利益給美國所以本席不會問今天關稅有多少"},{"start":198.428,"end":215.294,"text":"而是要問我們付出的代價是什麼那請問一下我們經貿我們經貿的代表回答一下目前已經確定付出的代價有哪些項目經貿可能你們可能會認為說不方便透露"},{"start":216.574,"end":240.102,"text":"但是今天我要提的是本席問已經是確定的項目既然已經確定就不會影響談判的結果比如要擴大經購台積電赴美天然氣易購惠利狂升都是已經確定的那你後面還有什麼跟美國將來以後對我們國內要求的什麼樣的一個問題"},{"start":244.013,"end":258.326,"text":"謝謝委員的提問我想第一個我先澄清的匯率問題不在我們台美經貿工作小組的談判範圍因為從我們的對口是貿易代表署USTR以及商務部是我們主要也要敗匯的對象"},{"start":259.332,"end":283.417,"text":"就知道匯率不是我們處理的議題所以首先澄清這個問題第二個就是您提到我們有沒有一些已經確定的共識我想任何的談判它的討論過程都是沒有一個議題只要有一個議題還沒有確定所有的議題都沒有達到共識所以現在我們不能在沒有達到最後的共識之前我們現在沒有一個議題"},{"start":284.597,"end":310.577,"text":"是已經可以確定然後可以在這個現階段來進行透露的所以這個還要請委員見諒台灣的中小企業已經快活不下去了所以這個部分你們要神聖的對我們的整個的稅率包含我們的關稅一定要著重在以台灣國內生存之際最重要那另外就是我想請問一下我們國安局"},{"start":318.783,"end":322.807,"text":"目前總統府放出總統已在華府經貿談判團隊視訊會議照片中結果代表團"},{"start":340.199,"end":362.92,"text":"代表团中出现了我们国安局长,那引发不少的质疑。那根据国安局国家安全局组织法第三条,国安局的职责范畴是勤收、勤演、正副总统安全等情报和安全工作,因此对国安局长出现在与经贸谈判的团队中,"},{"start":363.5,"end":377.846,"text":"不免引發大家的一個好奇請問一下我們副局長蔡局長為經貿談判代表團的成員原因是什麼之前沒有發生過這一次為什麼有那麼特別那"},{"start":378.686,"end":403.024,"text":"國安局你來回答一下是我想國安局蔡局長接同經貿談判代表來參加這個談判那我想國安局他所負責的面向除了剛剛我們所講的這些經濟安全經貿安全是國安局的一環所以是提供我們經貿這個安全經貿安全這個專業來給那個小組來做相關的一個執行"},{"start":408.007,"end":429.038,"text":"是他的目的是在這裡好那如果是這一次一個這麼大的一個層面去的應該是國安會的秘書長那局長代表團陳彥之一是不是表示在對美談判的中我國除了要付付出經貿的代價外"},{"start":429.698,"end":445.189,"text":"還要付出一個政治的代價這個政治代價是什麼根據國安局過去曾多次表示台美情報交流緊密順暢所以這個代價不是情資提供所以這樣的一個過程裡面應該是國安會的秘書長來代表才對"},{"start":453.097,"end":467.605,"text":"我想這個是由國安會是談判小組的一員他的一個成員那國安局當然在國安會底下那接受到指派都是有可能來參加這個談判好那請問一下我們金茂這個談判代表"},{"start":483.177,"end":494.042,"text":"既然我們國家安全局長為談判團隊的成員美國的談判代表中有沒有美國情報部門的相應代表"},{"start":496.902,"end":514.976,"text":"那個報告委員我想我們談判代表的組成他也是基本上也是有默契大家不揭露這些問題因為他實際上也代表了我們可能如果說沒有美國情報部門的這個相應代表的話那我們國安局局長去那邊就沒有意義了是吧"},{"start":516.363,"end":533.022,"text":"我想剛才國安局我們的副局長有提到他們是有提供這些跟經濟安全有關的資訊一般而言 勤之機關首長的出國行程都是一個保密的例如之前曾經發生過陳明通局長 前局長任內出訪泰國 前鎮戰局長"},{"start":538.408,"end":557.943,"text":"檢視為赴夏威夷行程遭大陸媒體曝光當時國內一片嘩然甚至有媒體說匪諜就在你身邊請問一下副局長總統府曝光國安局長在美國這樣的一個場合合適嗎難道不是匪諜就在總統府嗎我想這個"},{"start":562.991,"end":578.989,"text":"國安局他參加這個談判的成員是有他的一個用意存在啦我剛剛的報告就是經濟安全經貿安全是我們的一個禽收員的一個重要工作提供給談判小組做諮詢這邊再說明一下"},{"start":581.212,"end":595.704,"text":"如果我們國家安全局長有赴美代表談判的一個成員之一也應該有美國情報相關單位來列席這才是一個對等的一個談判這樣對國內來講"},{"start":599.387,"end":612.62,"text":"或許會有一點交代可是總統府這樣曝光了我們國安局長因為這是一個保密嘛好不好這一點是來跟你們提示這樣一個問題所在以上"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":200,"blocks":[["黃委員仁：（9時55分）謝謝主席，有請外交部及經貿談判代表。"],["主席：請次長、顏女士。"],["陳次長明祺：委員好。"],["黃委員仁：次長好。根據今天媒體的報導，賴總統將於8月份出訪中南美洲友邦，並過境紐約及達拉斯，這個行程安排是否已經確定？"],["陳次長明祺：總統府昨天說我們要是有確切的安排，總統府會儘早地統一對外說明。"],["黃委員仁：好。本席關心這個行程的目的，尤其是媒體的報導中提到，賴總統可能在行程當中宣布向美國大規模採購民航客機，請問一下向美大規模採購民航客機是否已經確定？這是否為關稅談判的籌碼之一？還是我方在台積電和天然氣外，又一次的單方面向美國示好？所以本席看最後的關稅額度，到底傳言是10%、15%、20%，還是維持32%？對這個部分你來說明一下。"],["陳次長明祺：第一個是對於最終的稅率，我們不做猜測，但是我們一定協助行政院的經貿團隊，盡全力跟美方溝通，能夠根據互利互惠的原則爭取最低的稅率，對我國產業、對國家利益產生最少的衝擊。第二個，對於各種各樣的採購案，除了我們已經宣布的之外，是不是還有新的採購案，我想這還是在雙方談判的過程，我們不便對外透露。像剛才陳永康委員也講得很清楚，這裡面牽涉到很多細微的部分，give and take，很抱歉，我們不太方便在這個時候推翻跟美方達成的一些共識，提供更完整的資訊，但是誠意一定都在。"],["黃委員仁：普羅大眾現在的想法是什麼？關稅好像已經不是重點，主要原因有兩點，第一個，在我國匯率短期狂升到15%以後，臺灣的中小企業早已經活不下去，更慘！即使關稅只有10%，企業面對的還是沒有最慘，只有更慘，都是死路一條。所以今天我們談的是什麼？從公布國家稅率看來，稅率只是川普政策的一個工具，美國正在做的是用此工具逼迫各國百分之百的滿足其需求，所謂的談判根本不是談判，而是單向輸送利益給美國，所以本席不會問今天關稅有多少，而是要問我們付出的代價是什麼？請問一下我們經貿的代表，回答一下，目前已經確定付出的代價有哪些項目？你們可能會認為不方便透露，但是今天我要提的是，本席是問已經確定的項目，既然已經確定就不會影響談判的結果，例如要擴大軍購、台積電赴美、天然氣預購、匯率狂升，都是已經確定的，你後面還有什麼？將來美國會對我們國內要求什麼樣的問題？你要回答？"],["顏副總談判代表慧欣：謝謝委員的提問，第一個，我先澄清的，匯率問題不在臺美經貿工作小組的談判範圍，因為從我們的對口是貿易代表署（USTR）以及商務部，是我們主要拜會的對象，就知道匯率不是我們處理的議題，首先澄清這個問題。第二個，您提到我們有沒有一些已經確定的共識，我想任何談判的討論過程，都是只要有一個議題還沒有確定，所有的議題都沒有達到共識，所以我們不能在還沒有達到最後的共識之前……我們現在沒有一個議題是已經確定，可以在現階段透露的，所以這個還要請委員見諒。"],["黃委員仁：臺灣的中小企業已經快活不下去了，所以這個部分你們要審慎，對我們整個稅率，包含我們的關稅，一定要著重在使臺灣國內中小企業能夠生存，這是最重要的。","另外，我想請問一下國安局。"],["黃副局長明昭：委員好。"],["黃委員仁：次長請回座。目前總統府放出總統與已在華府的經貿談判團隊視訊的會議照片，結果代表團中出現了國安局局長，引發不少的質疑。根據國家安全局組織法第三條，國安局的職責範疇是情蒐、情研、正副總統安全等情報和安全工作，因此，國安局長出現在經貿談判團隊中，不免引發大家的好奇。請問一下副局長，蔡局長為經貿談判代表團的成員，其原因是什麼？之前沒有發生過？這一次為什麼那麼特別？請國安局回答一下。"],["黃副局長明昭：是，關於國安局蔡局長偕同經貿談判代表參加這個談判，我想國安局所負責的面向，除了剛剛我們所講的這些，經貿安全是國安局的一環，所以是提供經貿安全這個專業給小組做相關的諮詢，其目的是在這裡。"],["黃委員仁：好，如果是這一次，一個這麼大的層面，去的應該是國安會的秘書長，局長為代表團成員之一，是不是表示在對美談判中，我國除了要付出經貿的代價外，還要付出政治的代價？這個政治代價是什麼？國安局過去曾多次表示，臺美情報交流緊密順暢，所以這個代價不是情資的提供，但這樣的一個過程裡面，應該是由國安會的秘書長代表才對。"],["黃副局長明昭：國安會是談判小組的一個成員，國安局當然在國安會底下，接收到指派都有可能來參加這個談判。"],["黃委員仁：好，請問一下經貿談判代表。"],["顏副總談判代表慧欣：委員好。"],["黃委員仁：既然國家安全局局長為談判團隊的成員，美國的談判代表中，有沒有美國情報部門的相應代表？"],["顏副總談判代表慧欣：報告委員，我想我們談判代表的組成，基本上也是有默契，大家不揭露這些問題，因為它實際上也代表我們可能……"],["黃委員仁：如果美國沒有情報部門的相應代表的話，那我們國安局局長去那邊就沒有意義了，是吧？"],["顏副總談判代表慧欣：剛才國安局副局長有提到，他們有提供這些跟經濟安全有關的資訊，所以……"],["黃委員仁：好，一般而言，情資機關首長的出國行程都是保密的，但之前曾經發生過陳明通前局長在任內出訪泰國、前政戰局長簡士偉赴夏威夷的行程遭大陸媒體曝光，當時國內一片譁然，甚至有媒體說匪諜就在你身邊。請問一下副局長，總統府曝光國安局長在美國這樣的場合是合適的嗎？難道不是匪諜就在總統府嗎？"],["黃副局長明昭：國安局參加這個談判的成員，有它的一個用意存在，我剛剛報告的，經濟安全、經貿安全是情蒐研的重要工作，提供談判小組諮詢是一個很重要的工作……"],["黃委員仁：我這邊再說明一下，如果我們國家安全局長有赴美，為談判代表的成員之一，美國也應該有情報相關單位來列席，這才是一個對等的談判，這樣對國內來講，或許會有一點交代，可是總統府這樣曝光了我們的國安局長，這是要保密的，好不好？我來跟你們提示這一點，有這樣一個問題存在，以上。"],["黃副局長明昭：好，謝謝委員。"],["主席：謝謝副局長、副總談判代表，謝謝黃仁委員。","下面我們請徐巧芯委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":50,"meet_id":"委員會-11-3-35-22","speakers":["黃仁","王定宇","陳永康","羅美玲","徐巧芯","馬文君","黃國昌","陳俊宇","林憶君","林倩綺","陳冠廷","李坤城","沈伯洋","林楚茵"],"page_start":1,"meetingDate":["2025-07-16"],"gazette_id":"1146701","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1146701_00002"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期外交及國防委員會第22次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請外交部部長、國家安全局局長、經濟部次長、財政部次長、農業部次長、行政院經貿談判辦\n公室副總談判代表報告「台美對等關稅談判進度、預期成果、對我國可能之衝擊及因應策略」，\n並備質詢","agenda_id":"1146701_00001"}}}