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{\"word\": \"過\"}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 176.845, \"end\": 176.945, \"score\": 0.684}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 176.945, \"end\": 177.046, \"score\": 0.861}, {\"word\": \"理\", \"start\": 177.046, \"end\": 177.226, \"score\": 0.799}, {\"word\": \"解\", \"start\": 177.226, \"end\": 177.386, \"score\": 0.916}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 177.386, \"end\": 177.586, \"score\": 0.915}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 177.586, \"end\": 178.027, \"score\": 0.907}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 178.027, \"end\": 178.447, \"score\": 0.719}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"當\"}, {\"word\": \"然\", \"start\": 178.447, \"end\": 178.748, \"score\": 0.661}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"希\", \"start\": 178.748, \"end\": 178.908, \"score\": 0.866}, {\"word\": \"望\", \"start\": 178.908, \"end\": 180.03, \"score\": 0.86}, {\"word\": \"說\"}, {\"word\": \"國\"}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"跟\", \"start\": 180.03, \"end\": 180.23, \"score\": 0.846}, {\"word\": \"社\", \"start\": 180.23, \"end\": 180.59, \"score\": 0.772}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"都\", \"start\": 180.59, \"end\": 180.771, \"score\": 0.852}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 180.771, \"end\": 181.412, \"score\": 0.852}, {\"word\": \"參\"}, {\"word\": \"與\"}, {\"word\": \"但\", \"start\": 181.412, \"end\": 181.552, \"score\": 0.766}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 181.552, \"end\": 181.772, \"score\": 0.846}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 181.772, \"end\": 181.992, \"score\": 0.827}, {\"word\": \"次\", \"start\": 181.992, \"end\": 182.093, \"score\": 0.902}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 182.093, \"end\": 182.213, \"score\": 0.677}, {\"word\": \"談\"}, {\"word\": \"判\", \"start\": 182.213, \"end\": 182.333, \"score\": 0.833}, {\"word\": \"實\"}, {\"word\": \"際\"}, {\"word\": \"上\", \"start\": 182.333, \"end\": 182.353, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 182.353, \"end\": 182.373, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 182.373, \"end\": 182.393, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"傳\"}, {\"word\": \"統\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 182.393, \"end\": 182.413, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"經\"}, {\"word\": \"貿\"}, {\"word\": \"談\"}, {\"word\": \"判\", \"start\": 182.413, \"end\": 182.513, \"score\": 0.994}, {\"word\": \"但\", \"start\": 182.513, \"end\": 182.533, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 182.533, \"end\": 182.553, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 182.553, \"end\": 182.593, \"score\": 0.151}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"盡\"}, {\"word\": \"可\", \"start\": 182.593, \"end\": 182.613, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"能\", \"start\": 182.613, \"end\": 182.633, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"維\"}, {\"word\": \"持\", \"start\": 182.633, \"end\": 182.753, \"score\": 0.72}, {\"word\": \"透\", \"start\": 182.753, \"end\": 182.773, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"明\", \"start\": 182.773, \"end\": 182.793, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"度\", \"start\": 182.793, \"end\": 182.814, \"score\": 0.0}]}, {\"start\": 187.7, \"end\": 216.938, \"text\": \"所以我們這個談判過程我們的各部會有以專題報告的方式委員會報告的方式以及各位委員也都有私底下請我們去做一些個別的一個討論我想這就是我們在這個非常壓縮的談判期間盡可能維持透明度的方式之所以會壓縮因為川普掀起的是一個非典型的關稅談判以前關稅談十年我印象韓國跟美國談FTA十年都沒有結果最後有結果的時候在首爾街頭砸車子嘛\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"所\", \"start\": 187.7, \"end\": 187.88, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 187.88, \"end\": 187.96, \"score\": 0.949}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 187.96, \"end\": 188.561, \"score\": 0.78}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"談\"}, {\"word\": \"判\", \"start\": 188.561, \"end\": 188.961, \"score\": 0.88}, {\"word\": \"過\"}, {\"word\": \"程\", \"start\": 188.961, \"end\": 189.661, \"score\": 0.985}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 189.661, \"end\": 189.861, \"score\": 0.883}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 189.861, \"end\": 190.002, \"score\": 0.969}, {\"word\": \"各\", \"start\": 190.002, \"end\": 190.162, \"score\": 0.975}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 190.162, \"end\": 190.782, \"score\": 0.944}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"有\", 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{\"word\": \"及\", \"start\": 193.604, \"end\": 193.784, \"score\": 0.92}, {\"word\": \"各\", \"start\": 193.784, \"end\": 193.944, \"score\": 0.983}, {\"word\": \"位\", \"start\": 193.944, \"end\": 194.104, \"score\": 0.981}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 194.104, \"end\": 194.684, \"score\": 0.897}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"也\", \"start\": 194.684, \"end\": 194.824, \"score\": 0.989}, {\"word\": \"都\", \"start\": 194.824, \"end\": 194.965, \"score\": 0.873}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 194.965, \"end\": 195.165, \"score\": 0.972}, {\"word\": \"私\", \"start\": 195.165, \"end\": 195.305, \"score\": 0.862}, {\"word\": \"底\", \"start\": 195.305, \"end\": 195.445, \"score\": 0.728}, {\"word\": \"下\", \"start\": 195.445, \"end\": 196.545, \"score\": 0.837}, {\"word\": \"請\"}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 196.545, \"end\": 196.786, \"score\": 0.842}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"去\", \"start\": 196.786, \"end\": 196.966, \"score\": 0.994}, {\"word\": \"做\", \"start\": 196.966, 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{\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"非\", \"start\": 200.268, \"end\": 200.388, \"score\": 0.947}, {\"word\": \"常\", \"start\": 200.388, \"end\": 201.068, \"score\": 0.898}, {\"word\": \"壓\"}, {\"word\": \"縮\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 201.068, \"end\": 201.368, \"score\": 0.821}, {\"word\": \"談\"}, {\"word\": \"判\", \"start\": 201.368, \"end\": 201.629, \"score\": 0.852}, {\"word\": \"期\", \"start\": 201.629, \"end\": 202.409, \"score\": 0.816}, {\"word\": \"間\"}, {\"word\": \"盡\"}, {\"word\": \"可\", \"start\": 202.409, \"end\": 202.529, \"score\": 0.986}, {\"word\": \"能\", \"start\": 202.529, \"end\": 202.769, \"score\": 0.875}, {\"word\": \"維\"}, {\"word\": \"持\", \"start\": 202.769, \"end\": 202.909, \"score\": 0.797}, {\"word\": \"透\", \"start\": 202.909, \"end\": 203.069, \"score\": 0.973}, {\"word\": \"明\", \"start\": 203.069, \"end\": 203.25, \"score\": 0.995}, {\"word\": \"度\", \"start\": 203.25, \"end\": 203.39, \"score\": 0.937}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 203.39, \"end\": 203.45, \"score\": 0.857}, {\"word\": \"方\", \"start\": 203.45, \"end\": 203.47, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"式\", \"start\": 203.47, \"end\": 203.61, \"score\": 0.857}, {\"word\": \"之\", \"start\": 203.61, \"end\": 203.75, \"score\": 0.85}, {\"word\": \"所\", \"start\": 203.75, \"end\": 203.87, \"score\": 0.923}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 203.87, \"end\": 204.53, \"score\": 0.867}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"壓\"}, {\"word\": \"縮\"}, {\"word\": \"因\", \"start\": 204.53, \"end\": 204.83, \"score\": 0.909}, {\"word\": \"為\"}, {\"word\": \"川\", \"start\": 204.83, \"end\": 205.051, \"score\": 0.92}, {\"word\": \"普\", \"start\": 205.051, \"end\": 205.491, \"score\": 0.917}, {\"word\": \"掀\"}, {\"word\": \"起\", \"start\": 205.491, \"end\": 205.591, \"score\": 0.751}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 205.591, \"end\": 205.731, \"score\": 0.969}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 205.731, \"end\": 205.811, \"score\": 0.992}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 205.811, \"end\": 206.091, \"score\": 0.923}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"非\", \"start\": 206.091, \"end\": 206.331, \"score\": 0.981}, {\"word\": \"典\", \"start\": 206.331, \"end\": 206.652, \"score\": 0.918}, {\"word\": \"型\", \"start\": 206.652, \"end\": 206.852, \"score\": 0.899}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 206.852, \"end\": 207.672, \"score\": 0.9}, {\"word\": \"關\"}, {\"word\": \"稅\"}, {\"word\": \"談\"}, {\"word\": \"判\", \"start\": 207.672, \"end\": 207.872, \"score\": 0.786}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 207.872, \"end\": 207.932, \"score\": 0.696}, {\"word\": \"前\", \"start\": 207.932, \"end\": 208.793, \"score\": 0.876}, {\"word\": \"關\"}, {\"word\": \"稅\"}, {\"word\": \"談\"}, {\"word\": \"十\", \"start\": 208.793, \"end\": 208.993, \"score\": 0.823}, {\"word\": \"年\", \"start\": 208.993, \"end\": 209.753, \"score\": 0.898}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 209.753, \"end\": 209.854, \"score\": 0.992}, {\"word\": \"印\", \"start\": 209.854, \"end\": 209.974, \"score\": 0.825}, {\"word\": \"象\", \"start\": 209.974, \"end\": 210.534, \"score\": 0.867}, {\"word\": \"韓\"}, {\"word\": \"國\"}, {\"word\": \"跟\", \"start\": 210.534, \"end\": 210.654, \"score\": 0.976}, {\"word\": \"美\", \"start\": 210.654, \"end\": 211.114, \"score\": 0.833}, {\"word\": \"國\"}, {\"word\": \"談\"}, {\"word\": \"F\", \"start\": 211.114, \"end\": 211.254, \"score\": 0.857}, {\"word\": \"T\", \"start\": 211.254, \"end\": 211.354, \"score\": 0.787}, {\"word\": \"A\", \"start\": 211.354, \"end\": 211.735, \"score\": 0.945}, {\"word\": \"十\", \"start\": 211.735, \"end\": 211.955, \"score\": 0.956}, {\"word\": \"年\", \"start\": 211.955, \"end\": 213.256, \"score\": 0.828}, {\"word\": \"都\", \"start\": 213.256, \"end\": 213.576, \"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"沒\", \"start\": 213.576, \"end\": 213.736, \"score\": 0.87}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 213.736, \"end\": 214.076, \"score\": 0.941}, {\"word\": \"結\"}, {\"word\": \"果\", \"start\": 214.076, \"end\": 214.236, \"score\": 0.996}, {\"word\": \"最\", \"start\": 214.236, \"end\": 214.336, \"score\": 0.799}, {\"word\": \"後\", \"start\": 214.336, \"end\": 214.416, \"score\": 0.741}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 214.416, \"end\": 214.716, \"score\": 0.915}, {\"word\": \"結\"}, {\"word\": \"果\", \"start\": 214.716, \"end\": 214.776, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 214.776, \"end\": 214.837, \"score\": 0.665}, {\"word\": \"時\"}, {\"word\": \"候\", \"start\": 214.837, \"end\": 214.957, \"score\": 0.833}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 214.957, \"end\": 215.277, \"score\": 0.96}, {\"word\": \"首\", \"start\": 215.277, \"end\": 215.557, \"score\": 0.875}, {\"word\": \"爾\"}, {\"word\": \"街\", \"start\": 215.557, \"end\": 216.397, \"score\": 0.946}, {\"word\": \"頭\"}, {\"word\": \"砸\", \"start\": 216.397, \"end\": 216.798, \"score\": 0.789}, {\"word\": \"車\"}, {\"word\": \"子\", \"start\": 216.798, \"end\": 216.918, \"score\": 0.662}, {\"word\": \"嘛\", \"start\": 216.918, \"end\": 216.938, \"score\": 0.345}]}, {\"start\": 218.018, \"end\": 236.401, \"text\": \"所以這一次是川普掀起了一個真的是非傳統非典型的關稅談判而且關稅談判涉及的層面很廣然後訊息又常常變化突然間這個豁免然後汽車業什麼豁免後來明天又不豁免這個談判過程當中不是台灣當方面決定的所以國會的參與\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"所\", \"start\": 218.018, \"end\": 218.639, \"score\": 0.955}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 218.639, \"end\": 218.799, \"score\": 0.857}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 218.799, \"end\": 218.999, \"score\": 0.992}, {\"word\": \"次\", \"start\": 218.999, \"end\": 219.139, \"score\": 0.968}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 219.139, \"end\": 219.34, \"score\": 0.981}, {\"word\": \"川\", \"start\": 219.34, \"end\": 219.6, \"score\": 0.955}, {\"word\": \"普\", \"start\": 219.6, \"end\": 220.161, \"score\": 0.898}, {\"word\": \"掀\"}, {\"word\": \"起\", \"start\": 220.161, \"end\": 220.301, \"score\": 0.911}, {\"word\": \"了\", \"start\": 220.301, \"end\": 220.381, \"score\": 0.726}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 220.381, \"end\": 221.162, \"score\": 0.943}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"真\", \"start\": 221.162, \"end\": 221.302, \"score\": 0.804}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 221.302, \"end\": 221.422, \"score\": 0.981}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 221.422, \"end\": 221.863, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"非\", \"start\": 221.863, \"end\": 222.584, \"score\": 0.931}, {\"word\": \"傳\"}, {\"word\": \"統\"}, {\"word\": \"非\", \"start\": 222.584, \"end\": 222.784, \"score\": 0.893}, {\"word\": \"典\", \"start\": 222.784, \"end\": 223.084, \"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"型\", \"start\": 223.084, \"end\": 223.325, \"score\": 0.898}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 223.325, \"end\": 224.206, \"score\": 0.866}, {\"word\": \"關\"}, {\"word\": \"稅\"}, {\"word\": \"談\"}, {\"word\": \"判\", \"start\": 224.206, \"end\": 224.346, \"score\": 0.736}, {\"word\": \"而\", \"start\": 224.346, \"end\": 224.526, \"score\": 0.81}, {\"word\": \"且\", \"start\": 224.526, \"end\": 225.287, \"score\": 0.904}, {\"word\": \"關\"}, {\"word\": \"稅\"}, {\"word\": \"談\"}, {\"word\": \"判\", \"start\": 225.287, \"end\": 225.487, \"score\": 0.846}, {\"word\": \"涉\", \"start\": 225.487, \"end\": 225.628, \"score\": 0.833}, {\"word\": \"及\", \"start\": 225.628, \"end\": 225.808, \"score\": 0.718}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 225.808, \"end\": 225.928, \"score\": 0.704}, {\"word\": \"層\"}, {\"word\": \"面\", \"start\": 225.928, \"end\": 226.088, \"score\": 0.75}, {\"word\": \"很\", \"start\": 226.088, \"end\": 227.009, \"score\": 0.862}, {\"word\": \"廣\"}, {\"word\": \"然\", \"start\": 227.009, \"end\": 227.43, \"score\": 0.798}, {\"word\": \"後\", \"start\": 227.43, \"end\": 227.63, \"score\": 0.894}, {\"word\": \"訊\"}, {\"word\": \"息\", \"start\": 227.63, \"end\": 227.75, \"score\": 0.829}, {\"word\": \"又\", \"start\": 227.75, \"end\": 227.83, \"score\": 0.731}, {\"word\": \"常\", \"start\": 227.83, \"end\": 227.971, \"score\": 0.869}, {\"word\": \"常\", \"start\": 227.971, \"end\": 228.371, \"score\": 0.903}, {\"word\": \"變\"}, {\"word\": \"化\", \"start\": 228.371, \"end\": 228.892, \"score\": 0.868}, {\"word\": \"突\", \"start\": 228.892, \"end\": 229.112, \"score\": 0.814}, {\"word\": \"然\", \"start\": 229.112, \"end\": 229.793, \"score\": 0.846}, {\"word\": \"間\"}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"豁\"}, {\"word\": \"免\", \"start\": 229.793, \"end\": 230.273, \"score\": 0.904}, {\"word\": \"然\", \"start\": 230.273, \"end\": 230.474, \"score\": 0.793}, {\"word\": \"後\", \"start\": 230.474, \"end\": 230.494, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"汽\", \"start\": 230.494, \"end\": 230.934, \"score\": 0.81}, {\"word\": \"車\"}, {\"word\": \"業\"}, {\"word\": \"什\", \"start\": 230.934, \"end\": 231.335, \"score\": 0.778}, {\"word\": \"麼\"}, {\"word\": \"豁\"}, {\"word\": \"免\", \"start\": 231.335, \"end\": 231.495, \"score\": 0.723}, {\"word\": \"後\", \"start\": 231.495, \"end\": 231.755, \"score\": 0.659}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"明\", \"start\": 231.755, \"end\": 231.896, \"score\": 0.881}, {\"word\": \"天\", \"start\": 231.896, \"end\": 232.016, \"score\": 0.931}, {\"word\": \"又\", \"start\": 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00:00:46,906\n我看到全世界國會沒有一個國會會提早把自己的國家底牌先排的談判結果是好是壞大家都希望好但這不是單方面在跳Tango這要兩方面來進行所以我最近看到一些比較荒謬的情形我要請教你什麼時候可以宣布或者什麼時候會有談判結果是台灣單方面可以決定的嗎\n\n3\n00:00:48,508 --> 00:01:00,266\n我想所有的談判國際慣例都是必須要雙方已經對明確的事情有共識那甚至是需要在這個協議有草簽之後那雙方都同意了我們才能對外公開\n\n4\n00:01:01,588 --> 00:01:20,256\n我很抱歉我問了一個這麼low這麼沒有基本常識的問題因為我竟然聽到我們國會裡面有人說我們台灣政府為了什麼大罷免刻意把川普宣布台灣關稅的時間往後延天啊台灣如果可以指揮川普什麼時候宣布我還想指揮他做別的事情\n\n5\n00:01:22,401 --> 00:01:47,112\n這是常識題國際談判的進程美國一定考慮美國的國家利益嘛台灣一定考慮台灣的國家利益嘛然後雙方giveandtake達成協議根據國際慣例怎麼宣布都會寫在裡面什麼方式的通過至於是採取條約協定協議也要看雙方協議最後的定案所以過早去把它\n\n6\n00:01:48,212 --> 00:02:10,467\n先排其實我們要想的是台灣廣大的中小企業超過一千萬的勞工其實跟這個都有關係所以時間的進程並不是台灣單一方面可以決定的事實上也不是美國單一方面可以決定的這是一個雙方要談判的事情然後再來有人說談判內容沒有公開就是黑箱你贊成這個說法嗎\n\n7\n00:02:12,410 --> 00:02:31,047\n我當然不贊成這個說法因為我們談判團隊我相信包括了我們的行政院以及各部會我們都有持續的除了我們在這個我想會講這種話講黑箱的人指的是對國會透明那我要詢問你你參與這國際談判應該相當有經驗做到副總代表了\n\n8\n00:02:32,068 --> 00:02:48,954\n我們過去不管在扁政府馬政府蔡英文政府歷任的政府那李登輝的時候你大概還沒當公務員那太久了就是說在這麼長時間跟國際的談判重大的經貿談判在談判當中有立法院參與過的記錄嗎\n\n9\n00:02:51,798 --> 00:03:02,814\n跟委員報告我是去年520才加入這個政府的不過我的理解就是我們當然會希望說國會跟社會都有參與但是這一次的談判實際上不是傳統的經貿談判但是我們盡可能維持透明度\n\n10\n00:03:07,700 --> 00:03:36,938\n所以我們這個談判過程我們的各部會有以專題報告的方式委員會報告的方式以及各位委員也都有私底下請我們去做一些個別的一個討論我想這就是我們在這個非常壓縮的談判期間盡可能維持透明度的方式之所以會壓縮因為川普掀起的是一個非典型的關稅談判以前關稅談十年我印象韓國跟美國談FTA十年都沒有結果最後有結果的時候在首爾街頭砸車子嘛\n\n11\n00:03:38,018 --> 00:03:56,401\n所以這一次是川普掀起了一個真的是非傳統非典型的關稅談判而且關稅談判涉及的層面很廣然後訊息又常常變化突然間這個豁免然後汽車業什麼豁免後來明天又不豁免這個談判過程當中不是台灣當方面決定的所以國會的參與\n\n12\n00:03:57,322 --> 00:04:18,878\n透過一些專報在經濟委員會在各個委員會說像我們今天委員會能釋放出來的訊息會盡量釋放那未來簽出來的不管是條約協議或協定定案之後我們就照立法院的相關的程序來進行這個才是現在因應談判最沉穩的做法啦好我最後請教你就是就你了解\n\n13\n00:04:20,639 --> 00:04:39,202\n因為川普曾經說過最後我都沒有講完的通通就是15%20%他曾經講過但他講過很多事情他還講過要炸北京嘛我還沒看到那就是說就你了解台灣的談判結果就你們目前看到的方向他\n\n14\n00:04:40,549 --> 00:04:55,034\n最後談到的結果我們大概會在什麼時候會有因為他這個90dayspost已經到了嘛已經要到了已經過了那接下來後續我們大概什麼時候可以預計有個大概結果是8月底以前啊什麼樣\n\n15\n00:04:56,161 --> 00:05:23,793\n跟委員報告我想川普總統就是在原本的7月9號的DateLine以前他去宣布說我們會延長到8月1號是DateLine所以我們現在不論我們拿到的稅率我們現在大概沒有收到關稅信函但是不論有沒有收到我覺得我們到8月1號以前努力談判就是我們的重點所以8月1號的DateLine到以前我們希望能夠達到一個結果那DateLine到還沒有宣布的會照川普講的都剩你15%\n\n16\n00:05:25,472 --> 00:05:54,180\n他有點把這個當作頓售你知道嗎就一次來弄就是8月1號以後沒有談成的他會再延長因為他常常延長啦或者是後續接下來目前看來美方的資訊會全部採取15%左右那15%其實是不錯因為目前我看最低的是英國10%嘛所以英國女王見他第二次了這個是很難得的事情英國國王啊現在不是女王所以就你了解如果8月1號到期會發生什麼樣的情形\n\n17\n00:05:55,502 --> 00:06:14,953\n我想川普總統所謂的10到1520%是針對現在原本4月2號公佈的對等關稅拿到10%的這些國家他要一併的提高到15到20%那但是台灣是屬於原本有個別對等關稅的國家也就是我們是貿易逆差存在的對所以我們可能還是會透過我們在8月1號以前努力談的這個關稅的稅率來作為我們最終的目標\n\n18\n00:06:24,525 --> 00:06:42,476\n最後有結果出來我覺得按照程序其實不管是外交國防委員會或者是我們經濟委員會我想國會都會排你們回來做報告這免不了的所以我是比較遺憾的面對這麼大的國際變革各國都在因應的時候政治紅利不應該從這邊來賺取我先請外交部次長\n\n19\n00:06:49,711 --> 00:07:10,941\n市長你邊走邊聽我問巴拉圭總統貝尼亞他曾經留學台灣跟我們相當友好他這兩天講的是堅定跟台灣站在一起而且他講一個重要的重點說台灣對巴拉圭的投資其實他覺得是相當不錯的那這個是對照中國用大撒幣挖走的像洪都拉斯沙瓦多都跳票\n\n20\n00:07:11,761 --> 00:07:35,843\n宏東大社瞎農現在真的是瞎瞎瞎嘿嘿嘿那現在就是說這個對照就是跟台灣理念相近然後平等互惠的外交方式然後我們現在跟巴拉圭跟美國希望建立一個三角形的一個經貿的關係林佳雄部長率團在巴拉圭訪問所以貝尼亞講的正面的意義是台巴的邦誼是相當穩固雖然中國還是拼命在滲透他們的在野黨\n\n21\n00:07:37,785 --> 00:07:56,536\n另外他提到的是我們賴先生總統八月份要訪問巴拉圭啦那他先講出來了那我們台灣你很難去說有或沒有我現在只問一個問題就是如果按照往例我國元首訪問巴拉圭是不是一定會過境美國本土\n\n22\n00:07:57,523 --> 00:08:15,094\n那按照往例的時候,我們當然會選擇讓總統的出訪能夠最便利、最快速的方式。那個三原則我會背啦,那個是美國三原則啦,安全便利啦,還有舒適嘛。那我現在是說,我們到巴拉圭有沒有不過近美國本土以外的選擇路線?\n\n23\n00:08:17,384 --> 00:08:44,059\n說一個實在的,我們這次部長去就沒有途經美國但我說剛才委員說的塞明澤,現在又要加上第四個就是尊嚴那目前還好啦,我現在沒有看到過境美國會有一些尊嚴的問題像我的意思是說,八月份去巴拉圭訪問,這是邦交國的訪問,沒有問題那總統專機飛出去,他如果不過境美國的話,難道你要過境歐洲?\n\n24\n00:08:45,960 --> 00:09:10,145\n還有一種情形就是在所謂的境外美國領土夏威夷或者阿拉斯加就有其他安排那會被人家做外交上比較我坦白講比較往負向指標的詮釋就你們外交部目前可以透露給國人的我們規劃賴總統出訪我們邦交國的話過境美國現在目前有沒有這樣安排\n\n25\n00:09:11,546 --> 00:09:34,628\n報告委員,第一個是說相關的安排,如果已經有具體的安排的時候,我們統一由總統府來發布。第二個是說,在總統府總體的考量之下,外交部會全力的配合,全力讓總統的出訪能夠非常的便利。雲飛機是你們的責任嘛,確定了沒?\n\n26\n00:09:39,040 --> 00:10:06,177\n訂飛機是嗎?訂專機嘛當然是說我們隨時都會不可能隨時準備一架飛機在那邊我們隨時準備要承受簽約的那個工作你這樣回答我很難答你但是這是標準答案所以我還是希望我們賴總統第一次如果能夠過境美國本土的話呈現出來的互動、層級、議題各界都會做文章你知道\n\n27\n00:10:07,652 --> 00:10:33,613\n賴清德總統過境美國到巴拉圭這個事情我們還沒有確認美國也還沒有確認先跳腳的是誰中共透過南華早報今天就先跳了這個不重要比較重要的是川習會顯現這個過境很重要光從他透過南華早報的反應就知道這個過境其實對區域的地緣政治啦對於台美關係其實很重要請你們審慎去注意過境美國的層級\n\n28\n00:10:35,714 --> 00:10:51,601\n議題跟過境的甚至於天數都會有影響請你們做妥善的規劃那因為事情關係我最後只問一件事情我們跟立陶宛的半陶體合作是否面臨\n\n29\n00:10:52,864 --> 00:11:13,037\n全面終止沒有沒有沒有沒有這樣的一個狀況還在討論這個雙方這個都可以實現的一些立陶宛坦白講真的是一個蠻好的朋友他們在民主的價值上那黃司長過去就是駐立陶宛第一任的我們的代表\n\n30\n00:11:14,238 --> 00:11:26,563\n那跟他們的半導體合作四個協議有三個問題不大有一個有一個雙方的期望值不一樣那如果因為那個期望值不同全面終止那被\n\n31\n00:11:28,001 --> 00:11:44,116\n負面解讀的機會就會相當大所以我再問一下清楚問完我就結束今天的質詢我們跟立陶宛的半導體合作有沒有全面終止或者中斷的危機我們請我們的立陶宛參加歐洲市市長\n\n32\n00:11:46,008 --> 00:12:03,505\n包委員我們跟他們正在進行各種可能的討論那我們也希望未來能夠持續延續在半導體上的合作動能這個討論你我都有參與過我聽到最後有點發現是歪斜線就是期望值的落差那\n\n33\n00:12:04,861 --> 00:12:31,186\n透過立方一些友好的朋友如果能夠理解那個落差其實不是來自於不是來自於台灣的問題而是一個這個產業的一個相關的條件的話實驗室的條件相關條件的話我覺得這個要做充分溝通因為那一個部分如果終止我們很怕有骨牌效應我相信黃市長了解我所提的內容那這個部分我私下會再請教你那我們各自看看我們對立方\n\n34\n00:12:31,966 --> 00:12:55,420\n大家都有的好朋友在那邊能夠來協助解決這個問題好朋友難免會有意見不同就算親人都會有意見不同的時候那好朋友意見不同妥善解決而不是如果說把它停下來的話我個人會覺得有點可惜好不好外交部加油委員的期待是我們的執命好謝謝我們王定義委員質詢\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n2270\t24338\t謝謝主席 麻煩我們談判的副總代表委員好早 談判的內容因為現在正在進行當中我覺得基於國家的利益沒有一個國家的談判會提前把自己的底牌陣容先排的就算是在國會\n25734\t46906\t我看到全世界國會沒有一個國會會提早把自己的國家底牌先排的談判結果是好是壞大家都希望好但這不是單方面在跳Tango這要兩方面來進行所以我最近看到一些比較荒謬的情形我要請教你什麼時候可以宣布或者什麼時候會有談判結果是台灣單方面可以決定的嗎\n48508\t60266\t我想所有的談判國際慣例都是必須要雙方已經對明確的事情有共識那甚至是需要在這個協議有草簽之後那雙方都同意了我們才能對外公開\n61588\t80256\t我很抱歉我問了一個這麼low這麼沒有基本常識的問題因為我竟然聽到我們國會裡面有人說我們台灣政府為了什麼大罷免刻意把川普宣布台灣關稅的時間往後延天啊台灣如果可以指揮川普什麼時候宣布我還想指揮他做別的事情\n82401\t107112\t這是常識題國際談判的進程美國一定考慮美國的國家利益嘛台灣一定考慮台灣的國家利益嘛然後雙方give and take達成協議根據國際慣例怎麼宣布都會寫在裡面什麼方式的通過至於是採取條約協定協議也要看雙方協議最後的定案所以過早去把它\n108212\t130467\t先排其實我們要想的是台灣廣大的中小企業超過一千萬的勞工其實跟這個都有關係所以時間的進程並不是台灣單一方面可以決定的事實上也不是美國單一方面可以決定的這是一個雙方要談判的事情然後再來有人說談判內容沒有公開就是黑箱你贊成這個說法嗎\n132410\t151047\t我當然不贊成這個說法因為我們談判團隊我相信包括了我們的行政院以及各部會我們都有持續的除了我們在這個我想會講這種話講黑箱的人指的是對國會透明那我要詢問你你參與這國際談判應該相當有經驗做到副總代表了\n152068\t168954\t我們過去不管在扁政府馬政府蔡英文政府歷任的政府那李登輝的時候你大概還沒當公務員那太久了就是說在這麼長時間跟國際的談判重大的經貿談判在談判當中有立法院參與過的記錄嗎\n171798\t182814\t跟委員報告我是去年520才加入這個政府的不過我的理解就是我們當然會希望說國會跟社會都有參與但是這一次的談判實際上不是傳統的經貿談判但是我們盡可能維持透明度\n187700\t216938\t所以我們這個談判過程我們的各部會有以專題報告的方式委員會報告的方式以及各位委員也都有私底下請我們去做一些個別的一個討論我想這就是我們在這個非常壓縮的談判期間盡可能維持透明度的方式之所以會壓縮因為川普掀起的是一個非典型的關稅談判以前關稅談十年我印象韓國跟美國談FTA十年都沒有結果最後有結果的時候在首爾街頭砸車子嘛\n218018\t236401\t所以這一次是川普掀起了一個真的是非傳統非典型的關稅談判而且關稅談判涉及的層面很廣然後訊息又常常變化突然間這個豁免然後汽車業什麼豁免後來明天又不豁免這個談判過程當中不是台灣當方面決定的所以國會的參與\n237322\t258878\t透過一些專報在經濟委員會在各個委員會說像我們今天委員會能釋放出來的訊息會盡量釋放那未來簽出來的不管是條約協議或協定定案之後我們就照立法院的相關的程序來進行這個才是現在因應談判最沉穩的做法啦好我最後請教你就是就你了解\n260639\t279202\t因為川普曾經說過 最後我都沒有講完的通通就是15% 20%他曾經講過 但他講過很多事情他還講過要炸北京嘛 我還沒看到那就是說就你了解台灣的談判結果就你們目前看到的方向他\n280549\t295034\t最後談到的結果我們大概會在什麼時候會有因為他這個90 days post已經到了嘛已經要到了已經過了那接下來後續我們大概什麼時候可以預計有個大概結果是8月底以前啊什麼樣\n296161\t323793\t跟委員報告我想川普總統就是在原本的7月9號的Date Line以前他去宣布說我們會延長到8月1號是Date Line所以我們現在不論我們拿到的稅率我們現在大概沒有收到關稅信函但是不論有沒有收到我覺得我們到8月1號以前努力談判就是我們的重點所以8月1號的Date Line到以前我們希望能夠達到一個結果那Date Line到還沒有宣布的會照川普講的都剩你15%\n325472\t354180\t他有點把這個當作頓售 你知道嗎 就一次來弄就是8月1號以後沒有談成的 他會再延長因為他常常延長啦或者是後續接下來 目前看來美方的資訊會全部採取15%左右那15%其實是不錯 因為目前我看最低的是英國10%嘛所以英國女王見他第二次了 這個是很難得的事情英國國王啊 現在不是女王所以就你了解 如果8月1號到期會發生什麼樣的情形\n355502\t374953\t我想川普總統所謂的10到15 20%是針對現在原本4月2號公佈的對等關稅拿到10%的這些國家他要一併的提高到15到20%那但是台灣是屬於原本有個別對等關稅的國家也就是我們是貿易逆差存在的對所以我們可能還是會透過我們在8月1號以前努力談的這個關稅的稅率來作為我們最終的目標\n384525\t402476\t最後有結果出來我覺得按照程序其實不管是外交國防委員會或者是我們經濟委員會我想國會都會排你們回來做報告這免不了的所以我是比較遺憾的面對這麼大的國際變革各國都在因應的時候政治紅利不應該從這邊來賺取我先請外交部次長\n409711\t430941\t市長你邊走邊聽我問巴拉圭總統貝尼亞他曾經留學台灣跟我們相當友好他這兩天講的是堅定跟台灣站在一起而且他講一個重要的重點說台灣對巴拉圭的投資其實他覺得是相當不錯的那這個是對照中國用大撒幣挖走的像洪都拉斯沙瓦多都跳票\n431761\t455843\t宏東大社瞎農現在真的是瞎瞎瞎 嘿嘿嘿那現在就是說這個對照就是跟台灣理念相近然後平等互惠的外交方式然後我們現在跟巴拉圭跟美國希望建立一個三角形的一個經貿的關係林佳雄部長率團在巴拉圭訪問所以貝尼亞講的正面的意義是台巴的邦誼是相當穩固雖然中國還是拼命在滲透他們的在野黨\n457785\t476536\t另外他提到的是我們賴先生總統八月份要訪問巴拉圭啦那他先講出來了那我們台灣你很難去說有或沒有我現在只問一個問題就是如果按照往例我國元首訪問巴拉圭是不是一定會過境美國本土\n477523\t495094\t那按照往例的時候,我們當然會選擇讓總統的出訪能夠最便利、最快速的方式。那個三原則我會背啦,那個是美國三原則啦,安全便利啦,還有舒適嘛。那我現在是說,我們到巴拉圭有沒有不過近美國本土以外的選擇路線?\n497384\t524059\t說一個實在的,我們這次部長去就沒有途經美國但我說剛才委員說的塞明澤,現在又要加上第四個就是尊嚴那目前還好啦,我現在沒有看到過境美國會有一些尊嚴的問題像我的意思是說,八月份去巴拉圭訪問,這是邦交國的訪問,沒有問題那總統專機飛出去,他如果不過境美國的話,難道你要過境歐洲?\n525960\t550145\t還有一種情形就是在所謂的境外美國領土夏威夷或者阿拉斯加就有其他安排那會被人家做外交上比較我坦白講比較往負向指標的詮釋就你們外交部目前可以透露給國人的我們規劃賴總統出訪我們邦交國的話過境美國現在目前有沒有這樣安排\n551546\t574628\t報告委員,第一個是說相關的安排,如果已經有具體的安排的時候,我們統一由總統府來發布。第二個是說,在總統府總體的考量之下,外交部會全力的配合,全力讓總統的出訪能夠非常的便利。雲飛機是你們的責任嘛,確定了沒?\n579040\t606177\t訂飛機是嗎?訂專機嘛當然是說我們隨時都會不可能隨時準備一架飛機在那邊我們隨時準備要承受簽約的那個工作你這樣回答我很難答你但是這是標準答案所以我還是希望我們賴總統第一次如果能夠過境美國本土的話呈現出來的互動、層級、議題各界都會做文章你知道\n607652\t633613\t賴清德總統過境美國到巴拉圭這個事情我們還沒有確認美國也還沒有確認先跳腳的是誰中共透過南華早報今天就先跳了這個不重要比較重要的是川習會顯現這個過境很重要光從他透過南華早報的反應就知道這個過境其實對區域的地緣政治啦對於台美關係其實很重要請你們審慎去注意過境美國的層級\n635714\t651601\t議題跟過境的甚至於天數都會有影響請你們做妥善的規劃那因為事情關係我最後只問一件事情我們跟立陶宛的半陶體合作是否面臨\n652864\t673037\t全面終止沒有沒有沒有沒有這樣的一個狀況還在討論這個雙方這個都可以實現的一些立陶宛坦白講真的是一個蠻好的朋友他們在民主的價值上那黃司長過去就是駐立陶宛第一任的我們的代表\n674238\t686563\t那跟他們的半導體合作四個協議有三個問題不大有一個有一個雙方的期望值不一樣那如果因為那個期望值不同全面終止那被\n688001\t704116\t負面解讀的機會就會相當大所以我再問一下清楚問完我就結束今天的質詢我們跟立陶宛的半導體合作有沒有全面終止或者中斷的危機我們請我們的立陶宛參加歐洲市市長\n706008\t723505\t包委員我們跟他們正在進行各種可能的討論那我們也希望未來能夠持續延續在半導體上的合作動能這個討論你我都有參與過我聽到最後有點發現是歪斜線就是期望值的落差那\n724861\t751186\t透過立方一些友好的朋友如果能夠理解那個落差其實不是來自於不是來自於台灣的問題而是一個這個產業的一個相關的條件的話實驗室的條件相關條件的話我覺得這個要做充分溝通因為那一個部分如果終止我們很怕有骨牌效應我相信黃市長了解我所提的內容那這個部分我私下會再請教你那我們各自看看我們對立方\n751966\t775420\t大家都有的好朋友在那邊能夠來協助解決這個問題好朋友難免會有意見不同就算親人都會有意見不同的時候那好朋友意見不同妥善解決而不是如果說把它停下來的話我個人會覺得有點可惜好不好 外交部加油委員的期待是我們的執命好 謝謝我們王定義委員質詢\n","txt":"謝謝主席 麻煩我們談判的副總代表委員好早 談判的內容因為現在正在進行當中我覺得基於國家的利益沒有一個國家的談判會提前把自己的底牌陣容先排的就算是在國會\n我看到全世界國會沒有一個國會會提早把自己的國家底牌先排的談判結果是好是壞大家都希望好但這不是單方面在跳Tango這要兩方面來進行所以我最近看到一些比較荒謬的情形我要請教你什麼時候可以宣布或者什麼時候會有談判結果是台灣單方面可以決定的嗎\n我想所有的談判國際慣例都是必須要雙方已經對明確的事情有共識那甚至是需要在這個協議有草簽之後那雙方都同意了我們才能對外公開\n我很抱歉我問了一個這麼low這麼沒有基本常識的問題因為我竟然聽到我們國會裡面有人說我們台灣政府為了什麼大罷免刻意把川普宣布台灣關稅的時間往後延天啊台灣如果可以指揮川普什麼時候宣布我還想指揮他做別的事情\n這是常識題國際談判的進程美國一定考慮美國的國家利益嘛台灣一定考慮台灣的國家利益嘛然後雙方give and take達成協議根據國際慣例怎麼宣布都會寫在裡面什麼方式的通過至於是採取條約協定協議也要看雙方協議最後的定案所以過早去把它\n先排其實我們要想的是台灣廣大的中小企業超過一千萬的勞工其實跟這個都有關係所以時間的進程並不是台灣單一方面可以決定的事實上也不是美國單一方面可以決定的這是一個雙方要談判的事情然後再來有人說談判內容沒有公開就是黑箱你贊成這個說法嗎\n我當然不贊成這個說法因為我們談判團隊我相信包括了我們的行政院以及各部會我們都有持續的除了我們在這個我想會講這種話講黑箱的人指的是對國會透明那我要詢問你你參與這國際談判應該相當有經驗做到副總代表了\n我們過去不管在扁政府馬政府蔡英文政府歷任的政府那李登輝的時候你大概還沒當公務員那太久了就是說在這麼長時間跟國際的談判重大的經貿談判在談判當中有立法院參與過的記錄嗎\n跟委員報告我是去年520才加入這個政府的不過我的理解就是我們當然會希望說國會跟社會都有參與但是這一次的談判實際上不是傳統的經貿談判但是我們盡可能維持透明度\n所以我們這個談判過程我們的各部會有以專題報告的方式委員會報告的方式以及各位委員也都有私底下請我們去做一些個別的一個討論我想這就是我們在這個非常壓縮的談判期間盡可能維持透明度的方式之所以會壓縮因為川普掀起的是一個非典型的關稅談判以前關稅談十年我印象韓國跟美國談FTA十年都沒有結果最後有結果的時候在首爾街頭砸車子嘛\n所以這一次是川普掀起了一個真的是非傳統非典型的關稅談判而且關稅談判涉及的層面很廣然後訊息又常常變化突然間這個豁免然後汽車業什麼豁免後來明天又不豁免這個談判過程當中不是台灣當方面決定的所以國會的參與\n透過一些專報在經濟委員會在各個委員會說像我們今天委員會能釋放出來的訊息會盡量釋放那未來簽出來的不管是條約協議或協定定案之後我們就照立法院的相關的程序來進行這個才是現在因應談判最沉穩的做法啦好我最後請教你就是就你了解\n因為川普曾經說過 最後我都沒有講完的通通就是15% 20%他曾經講過 但他講過很多事情他還講過要炸北京嘛 我還沒看到那就是說就你了解台灣的談判結果就你們目前看到的方向他\n最後談到的結果我們大概會在什麼時候會有因為他這個90 days post已經到了嘛已經要到了已經過了那接下來後續我們大概什麼時候可以預計有個大概結果是8月底以前啊什麼樣\n跟委員報告我想川普總統就是在原本的7月9號的Date Line以前他去宣布說我們會延長到8月1號是Date Line所以我們現在不論我們拿到的稅率我們現在大概沒有收到關稅信函但是不論有沒有收到我覺得我們到8月1號以前努力談判就是我們的重點所以8月1號的Date Line到以前我們希望能夠達到一個結果那Date Line到還沒有宣布的會照川普講的都剩你15%\n他有點把這個當作頓售 你知道嗎 就一次來弄就是8月1號以後沒有談成的 他會再延長因為他常常延長啦或者是後續接下來 目前看來美方的資訊會全部採取15%左右那15%其實是不錯 因為目前我看最低的是英國10%嘛所以英國女王見他第二次了 這個是很難得的事情英國國王啊 現在不是女王所以就你了解 如果8月1號到期會發生什麼樣的情形\n我想川普總統所謂的10到15 20%是針對現在原本4月2號公佈的對等關稅拿到10%的這些國家他要一併的提高到15到20%那但是台灣是屬於原本有個別對等關稅的國家也就是我們是貿易逆差存在的對所以我們可能還是會透過我們在8月1號以前努力談的這個關稅的稅率來作為我們最終的目標\n最後有結果出來我覺得按照程序其實不管是外交國防委員會或者是我們經濟委員會我想國會都會排你們回來做報告這免不了的所以我是比較遺憾的面對這麼大的國際變革各國都在因應的時候政治紅利不應該從這邊來賺取我先請外交部次長\n市長你邊走邊聽我問巴拉圭總統貝尼亞他曾經留學台灣跟我們相當友好他這兩天講的是堅定跟台灣站在一起而且他講一個重要的重點說台灣對巴拉圭的投資其實他覺得是相當不錯的那這個是對照中國用大撒幣挖走的像洪都拉斯沙瓦多都跳票\n宏東大社瞎農現在真的是瞎瞎瞎 嘿嘿嘿那現在就是說這個對照就是跟台灣理念相近然後平等互惠的外交方式然後我們現在跟巴拉圭跟美國希望建立一個三角形的一個經貿的關係林佳雄部長率團在巴拉圭訪問所以貝尼亞講的正面的意義是台巴的邦誼是相當穩固雖然中國還是拼命在滲透他們的在野黨\n另外他提到的是我們賴先生總統八月份要訪問巴拉圭啦那他先講出來了那我們台灣你很難去說有或沒有我現在只問一個問題就是如果按照往例我國元首訪問巴拉圭是不是一定會過境美國本土\n那按照往例的時候,我們當然會選擇讓總統的出訪能夠最便利、最快速的方式。那個三原則我會背啦,那個是美國三原則啦,安全便利啦,還有舒適嘛。那我現在是說,我們到巴拉圭有沒有不過近美國本土以外的選擇路線?\n說一個實在的,我們這次部長去就沒有途經美國但我說剛才委員說的塞明澤,現在又要加上第四個就是尊嚴那目前還好啦,我現在沒有看到過境美國會有一些尊嚴的問題像我的意思是說,八月份去巴拉圭訪問,這是邦交國的訪問,沒有問題那總統專機飛出去,他如果不過境美國的話,難道你要過境歐洲?\n還有一種情形就是在所謂的境外美國領土夏威夷或者阿拉斯加就有其他安排那會被人家做外交上比較我坦白講比較往負向指標的詮釋就你們外交部目前可以透露給國人的我們規劃賴總統出訪我們邦交國的話過境美國現在目前有沒有這樣安排\n報告委員,第一個是說相關的安排,如果已經有具體的安排的時候,我們統一由總統府來發布。第二個是說,在總統府總體的考量之下,外交部會全力的配合,全力讓總統的出訪能夠非常的便利。雲飛機是你們的責任嘛,確定了沒?\n訂飛機是嗎?訂專機嘛當然是說我們隨時都會不可能隨時準備一架飛機在那邊我們隨時準備要承受簽約的那個工作你這樣回答我很難答你但是這是標準答案所以我還是希望我們賴總統第一次如果能夠過境美國本土的話呈現出來的互動、層級、議題各界都會做文章你知道\n賴清德總統過境美國到巴拉圭這個事情我們還沒有確認美國也還沒有確認先跳腳的是誰中共透過南華早報今天就先跳了這個不重要比較重要的是川習會顯現這個過境很重要光從他透過南華早報的反應就知道這個過境其實對區域的地緣政治啦對於台美關係其實很重要請你們審慎去注意過境美國的層級\n議題跟過境的甚至於天數都會有影響請你們做妥善的規劃那因為事情關係我最後只問一件事情我們跟立陶宛的半陶體合作是否面臨\n全面終止沒有沒有沒有沒有這樣的一個狀況還在討論這個雙方這個都可以實現的一些立陶宛坦白講真的是一個蠻好的朋友他們在民主的價值上那黃司長過去就是駐立陶宛第一任的我們的代表\n那跟他們的半導體合作四個協議有三個問題不大有一個有一個雙方的期望值不一樣那如果因為那個期望值不同全面終止那被\n負面解讀的機會就會相當大所以我再問一下清楚問完我就結束今天的質詢我們跟立陶宛的半導體合作有沒有全面終止或者中斷的危機我們請我們的立陶宛參加歐洲市市長\n包委員我們跟他們正在進行各種可能的討論那我們也希望未來能夠持續延續在半導體上的合作動能這個討論你我都有參與過我聽到最後有點發現是歪斜線就是期望值的落差那\n透過立方一些友好的朋友如果能夠理解那個落差其實不是來自於不是來自於台灣的問題而是一個這個產業的一個相關的條件的話實驗室的條件相關條件的話我覺得這個要做充分溝通因為那一個部分如果終止我們很怕有骨牌效應我相信黃市長了解我所提的內容那這個部分我私下會再請教你那我們各自看看我們對立方\n大家都有的好朋友在那邊能夠來協助解決這個問題好朋友難免會有意見不同就算親人都會有意見不同的時候那好朋友意見不同妥善解決而不是如果說把它停下來的話我個人會覺得有點可惜好不好 外交部加油委員的期待是我們的執命好 謝謝我們王定義委員質詢\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:02.270 --> 00:24.338\n謝謝主席麻煩我們談判的副總代表委員好早談判的內容因為現在正在進行當中我覺得基於國家的利益沒有一個國家的談判會提前把自己的底牌陣容先排的就算是在國會\n\n00:25.734 --> 00:46.906\n我看到全世界國會沒有一個國會會提早把自己的國家底牌先排的談判結果是好是壞大家都希望好但這不是單方面在跳Tango這要兩方面來進行所以我最近看到一些比較荒謬的情形我要請教你什麼時候可以宣布或者什麼時候會有談判結果是台灣單方面可以決定的嗎\n\n00:48.508 --> 01:00.266\n我想所有的談判國際慣例都是必須要雙方已經對明確的事情有共識那甚至是需要在這個協議有草簽之後那雙方都同意了我們才能對外公開\n\n01:01.588 --> 01:20.256\n我很抱歉我問了一個這麼low這麼沒有基本常識的問題因為我竟然聽到我們國會裡面有人說我們台灣政府為了什麼大罷免刻意把川普宣布台灣關稅的時間往後延天啊台灣如果可以指揮川普什麼時候宣布我還想指揮他做別的事情\n\n01:22.401 --> 01:47.112\n這是常識題國際談判的進程美國一定考慮美國的國家利益嘛台灣一定考慮台灣的國家利益嘛然後雙方giveandtake達成協議根據國際慣例怎麼宣布都會寫在裡面什麼方式的通過至於是採取條約協定協議也要看雙方協議最後的定案所以過早去把它\n\n01:48.212 --> 02:10.467\n先排其實我們要想的是台灣廣大的中小企業超過一千萬的勞工其實跟這個都有關係所以時間的進程並不是台灣單一方面可以決定的事實上也不是美國單一方面可以決定的這是一個雙方要談判的事情然後再來有人說談判內容沒有公開就是黑箱你贊成這個說法嗎\n\n02:12.410 --> 02:31.047\n我當然不贊成這個說法因為我們談判團隊我相信包括了我們的行政院以及各部會我們都有持續的除了我們在這個我想會講這種話講黑箱的人指的是對國會透明那我要詢問你你參與這國際談判應該相當有經驗做到副總代表了\n\n02:32.068 --> 02:48.954\n我們過去不管在扁政府馬政府蔡英文政府歷任的政府那李登輝的時候你大概還沒當公務員那太久了就是說在這麼長時間跟國際的談判重大的經貿談判在談判當中有立法院參與過的記錄嗎\n\n02:51.798 --> 03:02.814\n跟委員報告我是去年520才加入這個政府的不過我的理解就是我們當然會希望說國會跟社會都有參與但是這一次的談判實際上不是傳統的經貿談判但是我們盡可能維持透明度\n\n03:07.700 --> 03:36.938\n所以我們這個談判過程我們的各部會有以專題報告的方式委員會報告的方式以及各位委員也都有私底下請我們去做一些個別的一個討論我想這就是我們在這個非常壓縮的談判期間盡可能維持透明度的方式之所以會壓縮因為川普掀起的是一個非典型的關稅談判以前關稅談十年我印象韓國跟美國談FTA十年都沒有結果最後有結果的時候在首爾街頭砸車子嘛\n\n03:38.018 --> 03:56.401\n所以這一次是川普掀起了一個真的是非傳統非典型的關稅談判而且關稅談判涉及的層面很廣然後訊息又常常變化突然間這個豁免然後汽車業什麼豁免後來明天又不豁免這個談判過程當中不是台灣當方面決定的所以國會的參與\n\n03:57.322 --> 04:18.878\n透過一些專報在經濟委員會在各個委員會說像我們今天委員會能釋放出來的訊息會盡量釋放那未來簽出來的不管是條約協議或協定定案之後我們就照立法院的相關的程序來進行這個才是現在因應談判最沉穩的做法啦好我最後請教你就是就你了解\n\n04:20.639 --> 04:39.202\n因為川普曾經說過最後我都沒有講完的通通就是15%20%他曾經講過但他講過很多事情他還講過要炸北京嘛我還沒看到那就是說就你了解台灣的談判結果就你們目前看到的方向他\n\n04:40.549 --> 04:55.034\n最後談到的結果我們大概會在什麼時候會有因為他這個90dayspost已經到了嘛已經要到了已經過了那接下來後續我們大概什麼時候可以預計有個大概結果是8月底以前啊什麼樣\n\n04:56.161 --> 05:23.793\n跟委員報告我想川普總統就是在原本的7月9號的DateLine以前他去宣布說我們會延長到8月1號是DateLine所以我們現在不論我們拿到的稅率我們現在大概沒有收到關稅信函但是不論有沒有收到我覺得我們到8月1號以前努力談判就是我們的重點所以8月1號的DateLine到以前我們希望能夠達到一個結果那DateLine到還沒有宣布的會照川普講的都剩你15%\n\n05:25.472 --> 05:54.180\n他有點把這個當作頓售你知道嗎就一次來弄就是8月1號以後沒有談成的他會再延長因為他常常延長啦或者是後續接下來目前看來美方的資訊會全部採取15%左右那15%其實是不錯因為目前我看最低的是英國10%嘛所以英國女王見他第二次了這個是很難得的事情英國國王啊現在不是女王所以就你了解如果8月1號到期會發生什麼樣的情形\n\n05:55.502 --> 06:14.953\n我想川普總統所謂的10到1520%是針對現在原本4月2號公佈的對等關稅拿到10%的這些國家他要一併的提高到15到20%那但是台灣是屬於原本有個別對等關稅的國家也就是我們是貿易逆差存在的對所以我們可能還是會透過我們在8月1號以前努力談的這個關稅的稅率來作為我們最終的目標\n\n06:24.525 --> 06:42.476\n最後有結果出來我覺得按照程序其實不管是外交國防委員會或者是我們經濟委員會我想國會都會排你們回來做報告這免不了的所以我是比較遺憾的面對這麼大的國際變革各國都在因應的時候政治紅利不應該從這邊來賺取我先請外交部次長\n\n06:49.711 --> 07:10.941\n市長你邊走邊聽我問巴拉圭總統貝尼亞他曾經留學台灣跟我們相當友好他這兩天講的是堅定跟台灣站在一起而且他講一個重要的重點說台灣對巴拉圭的投資其實他覺得是相當不錯的那這個是對照中國用大撒幣挖走的像洪都拉斯沙瓦多都跳票\n\n07:11.761 --> 07:35.843\n宏東大社瞎農現在真的是瞎瞎瞎嘿嘿嘿那現在就是說這個對照就是跟台灣理念相近然後平等互惠的外交方式然後我們現在跟巴拉圭跟美國希望建立一個三角形的一個經貿的關係林佳雄部長率團在巴拉圭訪問所以貝尼亞講的正面的意義是台巴的邦誼是相當穩固雖然中國還是拼命在滲透他們的在野黨\n\n07:37.785 --> 07:56.536\n另外他提到的是我們賴先生總統八月份要訪問巴拉圭啦那他先講出來了那我們台灣你很難去說有或沒有我現在只問一個問題就是如果按照往例我國元首訪問巴拉圭是不是一定會過境美國本土\n\n07:57.523 --> 08:15.094\n那按照往例的時候,我們當然會選擇讓總統的出訪能夠最便利、最快速的方式。那個三原則我會背啦,那個是美國三原則啦,安全便利啦,還有舒適嘛。那我現在是說,我們到巴拉圭有沒有不過近美國本土以外的選擇路線?\n\n08:17.384 --> 08:44.059\n說一個實在的,我們這次部長去就沒有途經美國但我說剛才委員說的塞明澤,現在又要加上第四個就是尊嚴那目前還好啦,我現在沒有看到過境美國會有一些尊嚴的問題像我的意思是說,八月份去巴拉圭訪問,這是邦交國的訪問,沒有問題那總統專機飛出去,他如果不過境美國的話,難道你要過境歐洲?\n\n08:45.960 --> 09:10.145\n還有一種情形就是在所謂的境外美國領土夏威夷或者阿拉斯加就有其他安排那會被人家做外交上比較我坦白講比較往負向指標的詮釋就你們外交部目前可以透露給國人的我們規劃賴總統出訪我們邦交國的話過境美國現在目前有沒有這樣安排\n\n09:11.546 --> 09:34.628\n報告委員,第一個是說相關的安排,如果已經有具體的安排的時候,我們統一由總統府來發布。第二個是說,在總統府總體的考量之下,外交部會全力的配合,全力讓總統的出訪能夠非常的便利。雲飛機是你們的責任嘛,確定了沒?\n\n09:39.040 --> 10:06.177\n訂飛機是嗎?訂專機嘛當然是說我們隨時都會不可能隨時準備一架飛機在那邊我們隨時準備要承受簽約的那個工作你這樣回答我很難答你但是這是標準答案所以我還是希望我們賴總統第一次如果能夠過境美國本土的話呈現出來的互動、層級、議題各界都會做文章你知道\n\n10:07.652 --> 10:33.613\n賴清德總統過境美國到巴拉圭這個事情我們還沒有確認美國也還沒有確認先跳腳的是誰中共透過南華早報今天就先跳了這個不重要比較重要的是川習會顯現這個過境很重要光從他透過南華早報的反應就知道這個過境其實對區域的地緣政治啦對於台美關係其實很重要請你們審慎去注意過境美國的層級\n\n10:35.714 --> 10:51.601\n議題跟過境的甚至於天數都會有影響請你們做妥善的規劃那因為事情關係我最後只問一件事情我們跟立陶宛的半陶體合作是否面臨\n\n10:52.864 --> 11:13.037\n全面終止沒有沒有沒有沒有這樣的一個狀況還在討論這個雙方這個都可以實現的一些立陶宛坦白講真的是一個蠻好的朋友他們在民主的價值上那黃司長過去就是駐立陶宛第一任的我們的代表\n\n11:14.238 --> 11:26.563\n那跟他們的半導體合作四個協議有三個問題不大有一個有一個雙方的期望值不一樣那如果因為那個期望值不同全面終止那被\n\n11:28.001 --> 11:44.116\n負面解讀的機會就會相當大所以我再問一下清楚問完我就結束今天的質詢我們跟立陶宛的半導體合作有沒有全面終止或者中斷的危機我們請我們的立陶宛參加歐洲市市長\n\n11:46.008 --> 12:03.505\n包委員我們跟他們正在進行各種可能的討論那我們也希望未來能夠持續延續在半導體上的合作動能這個討論你我都有參與過我聽到最後有點發現是歪斜線就是期望值的落差那\n\n12:04.861 --> 12:31.186\n透過立方一些友好的朋友如果能夠理解那個落差其實不是來自於不是來自於台灣的問題而是一個這個產業的一個相關的條件的話實驗室的條件相關條件的話我覺得這個要做充分溝通因為那一個部分如果終止我們很怕有骨牌效應我相信黃市長了解我所提的內容那這個部分我私下會再請教你那我們各自看看我們對立方\n\n12:31.966 --> 12:55.420\n大家都有的好朋友在那邊能夠來協助解決這個問題好朋友難免會有意見不同就算親人都會有意見不同的時候那好朋友意見不同妥善解決而不是如果說把它停下來的話我個人會覺得有點可惜好不好外交部加油委員的期待是我們的執命好謝謝我們王定義委員質詢\n\n","segments":[{"start":2.27,"end":24.338,"text":"謝謝主席 麻煩我們談判的副總代表委員好早 談判的內容因為現在正在進行當中我覺得基於國家的利益沒有一個國家的談判會提前把自己的底牌陣容先排的就算是在國會"},{"start":25.734,"end":46.906,"text":"我看到全世界國會沒有一個國會會提早把自己的國家底牌先排的談判結果是好是壞大家都希望好但這不是單方面在跳Tango這要兩方面來進行所以我最近看到一些比較荒謬的情形我要請教你什麼時候可以宣布或者什麼時候會有談判結果是台灣單方面可以決定的嗎"},{"start":48.508,"end":60.266,"text":"我想所有的談判國際慣例都是必須要雙方已經對明確的事情有共識那甚至是需要在這個協議有草簽之後那雙方都同意了我們才能對外公開"},{"start":61.588,"end":80.256,"text":"我很抱歉我問了一個這麼low這麼沒有基本常識的問題因為我竟然聽到我們國會裡面有人說我們台灣政府為了什麼大罷免刻意把川普宣布台灣關稅的時間往後延天啊台灣如果可以指揮川普什麼時候宣布我還想指揮他做別的事情"},{"start":82.401,"end":107.112,"text":"這是常識題國際談判的進程美國一定考慮美國的國家利益嘛台灣一定考慮台灣的國家利益嘛然後雙方give and take達成協議根據國際慣例怎麼宣布都會寫在裡面什麼方式的通過至於是採取條約協定協議也要看雙方協議最後的定案所以過早去把它"},{"start":108.212,"end":130.467,"text":"先排其實我們要想的是台灣廣大的中小企業超過一千萬的勞工其實跟這個都有關係所以時間的進程並不是台灣單一方面可以決定的事實上也不是美國單一方面可以決定的這是一個雙方要談判的事情然後再來有人說談判內容沒有公開就是黑箱你贊成這個說法嗎"},{"start":132.41,"end":151.047,"text":"我當然不贊成這個說法因為我們談判團隊我相信包括了我們的行政院以及各部會我們都有持續的除了我們在這個我想會講這種話講黑箱的人指的是對國會透明那我要詢問你你參與這國際談判應該相當有經驗做到副總代表了"},{"start":152.068,"end":168.954,"text":"我們過去不管在扁政府馬政府蔡英文政府歷任的政府那李登輝的時候你大概還沒當公務員那太久了就是說在這麼長時間跟國際的談判重大的經貿談判在談判當中有立法院參與過的記錄嗎"},{"start":171.798,"end":182.814,"text":"跟委員報告我是去年520才加入這個政府的不過我的理解就是我們當然會希望說國會跟社會都有參與但是這一次的談判實際上不是傳統的經貿談判但是我們盡可能維持透明度"},{"start":187.7,"end":216.938,"text":"所以我們這個談判過程我們的各部會有以專題報告的方式委員會報告的方式以及各位委員也都有私底下請我們去做一些個別的一個討論我想這就是我們在這個非常壓縮的談判期間盡可能維持透明度的方式之所以會壓縮因為川普掀起的是一個非典型的關稅談判以前關稅談十年我印象韓國跟美國談FTA十年都沒有結果最後有結果的時候在首爾街頭砸車子嘛"},{"start":218.018,"end":236.401,"text":"所以這一次是川普掀起了一個真的是非傳統非典型的關稅談判而且關稅談判涉及的層面很廣然後訊息又常常變化突然間這個豁免然後汽車業什麼豁免後來明天又不豁免這個談判過程當中不是台灣當方面決定的所以國會的參與"},{"start":237.322,"end":258.878,"text":"透過一些專報在經濟委員會在各個委員會說像我們今天委員會能釋放出來的訊息會盡量釋放那未來簽出來的不管是條約協議或協定定案之後我們就照立法院的相關的程序來進行這個才是現在因應談判最沉穩的做法啦好我最後請教你就是就你了解"},{"start":260.639,"end":279.202,"text":"因為川普曾經說過 最後我都沒有講完的通通就是15% 20%他曾經講過 但他講過很多事情他還講過要炸北京嘛 我還沒看到那就是說就你了解台灣的談判結果就你們目前看到的方向他"},{"start":280.549,"end":295.034,"text":"最後談到的結果我們大概會在什麼時候會有因為他這個90 days post已經到了嘛已經要到了已經過了那接下來後續我們大概什麼時候可以預計有個大概結果是8月底以前啊什麼樣"},{"start":296.161,"end":323.793,"text":"跟委員報告我想川普總統就是在原本的7月9號的Date Line以前他去宣布說我們會延長到8月1號是Date Line所以我們現在不論我們拿到的稅率我們現在大概沒有收到關稅信函但是不論有沒有收到我覺得我們到8月1號以前努力談判就是我們的重點所以8月1號的Date Line到以前我們希望能夠達到一個結果那Date Line到還沒有宣布的會照川普講的都剩你15%"},{"start":325.472,"end":354.18,"text":"他有點把這個當作頓售 你知道嗎 就一次來弄就是8月1號以後沒有談成的 他會再延長因為他常常延長啦或者是後續接下來 目前看來美方的資訊會全部採取15%左右那15%其實是不錯 因為目前我看最低的是英國10%嘛所以英國女王見他第二次了 這個是很難得的事情英國國王啊 現在不是女王所以就你了解 如果8月1號到期會發生什麼樣的情形"},{"start":355.502,"end":374.953,"text":"我想川普總統所謂的10到15 20%是針對現在原本4月2號公佈的對等關稅拿到10%的這些國家他要一併的提高到15到20%那但是台灣是屬於原本有個別對等關稅的國家也就是我們是貿易逆差存在的對所以我們可能還是會透過我們在8月1號以前努力談的這個關稅的稅率來作為我們最終的目標"},{"start":384.525,"end":402.476,"text":"最後有結果出來我覺得按照程序其實不管是外交國防委員會或者是我們經濟委員會我想國會都會排你們回來做報告這免不了的所以我是比較遺憾的面對這麼大的國際變革各國都在因應的時候政治紅利不應該從這邊來賺取我先請外交部次長"},{"start":409.711,"end":430.941,"text":"市長你邊走邊聽我問巴拉圭總統貝尼亞他曾經留學台灣跟我們相當友好他這兩天講的是堅定跟台灣站在一起而且他講一個重要的重點說台灣對巴拉圭的投資其實他覺得是相當不錯的那這個是對照中國用大撒幣挖走的像洪都拉斯沙瓦多都跳票"},{"start":431.761,"end":455.843,"text":"宏東大社瞎農現在真的是瞎瞎瞎 嘿嘿嘿那現在就是說這個對照就是跟台灣理念相近然後平等互惠的外交方式然後我們現在跟巴拉圭跟美國希望建立一個三角形的一個經貿的關係林佳雄部長率團在巴拉圭訪問所以貝尼亞講的正面的意義是台巴的邦誼是相當穩固雖然中國還是拼命在滲透他們的在野黨"},{"start":457.785,"end":476.536,"text":"另外他提到的是我們賴先生總統八月份要訪問巴拉圭啦那他先講出來了那我們台灣你很難去說有或沒有我現在只問一個問題就是如果按照往例我國元首訪問巴拉圭是不是一定會過境美國本土"},{"start":477.523,"end":495.094,"text":"那按照往例的時候,我們當然會選擇讓總統的出訪能夠最便利、最快速的方式。那個三原則我會背啦,那個是美國三原則啦,安全便利啦,還有舒適嘛。那我現在是說,我們到巴拉圭有沒有不過近美國本土以外的選擇路線?"},{"start":497.384,"end":524.059,"text":"說一個實在的,我們這次部長去就沒有途經美國但我說剛才委員說的塞明澤,現在又要加上第四個就是尊嚴那目前還好啦,我現在沒有看到過境美國會有一些尊嚴的問題像我的意思是說,八月份去巴拉圭訪問,這是邦交國的訪問,沒有問題那總統專機飛出去,他如果不過境美國的話,難道你要過境歐洲?"},{"start":525.96,"end":550.145,"text":"還有一種情形就是在所謂的境外美國領土夏威夷或者阿拉斯加就有其他安排那會被人家做外交上比較我坦白講比較往負向指標的詮釋就你們外交部目前可以透露給國人的我們規劃賴總統出訪我們邦交國的話過境美國現在目前有沒有這樣安排"},{"start":551.546,"end":574.628,"text":"報告委員,第一個是說相關的安排,如果已經有具體的安排的時候,我們統一由總統府來發布。第二個是說,在總統府總體的考量之下,外交部會全力的配合,全力讓總統的出訪能夠非常的便利。雲飛機是你們的責任嘛,確定了沒?"},{"start":579.04,"end":606.177,"text":"訂飛機是嗎?訂專機嘛當然是說我們隨時都會不可能隨時準備一架飛機在那邊我們隨時準備要承受簽約的那個工作你這樣回答我很難答你但是這是標準答案所以我還是希望我們賴總統第一次如果能夠過境美國本土的話呈現出來的互動、層級、議題各界都會做文章你知道"},{"start":607.652,"end":633.613,"text":"賴清德總統過境美國到巴拉圭這個事情我們還沒有確認美國也還沒有確認先跳腳的是誰中共透過南華早報今天就先跳了這個不重要比較重要的是川習會顯現這個過境很重要光從他透過南華早報的反應就知道這個過境其實對區域的地緣政治啦對於台美關係其實很重要請你們審慎去注意過境美國的層級"},{"start":635.714,"end":651.601,"text":"議題跟過境的甚至於天數都會有影響請你們做妥善的規劃那因為事情關係我最後只問一件事情我們跟立陶宛的半陶體合作是否面臨"},{"start":652.864,"end":673.037,"text":"全面終止沒有沒有沒有沒有這樣的一個狀況還在討論這個雙方這個都可以實現的一些立陶宛坦白講真的是一個蠻好的朋友他們在民主的價值上那黃司長過去就是駐立陶宛第一任的我們的代表"},{"start":674.238,"end":686.563,"text":"那跟他們的半導體合作四個協議有三個問題不大有一個有一個雙方的期望值不一樣那如果因為那個期望值不同全面終止那被"},{"start":688.001,"end":704.116,"text":"負面解讀的機會就會相當大所以我再問一下清楚問完我就結束今天的質詢我們跟立陶宛的半導體合作有沒有全面終止或者中斷的危機我們請我們的立陶宛參加歐洲市市長"},{"start":706.008,"end":723.505,"text":"包委員我們跟他們正在進行各種可能的討論那我們也希望未來能夠持續延續在半導體上的合作動能這個討論你我都有參與過我聽到最後有點發現是歪斜線就是期望值的落差那"},{"start":724.861,"end":751.186,"text":"透過立方一些友好的朋友如果能夠理解那個落差其實不是來自於不是來自於台灣的問題而是一個這個產業的一個相關的條件的話實驗室的條件相關條件的話我覺得這個要做充分溝通因為那一個部分如果終止我們很怕有骨牌效應我相信黃市長了解我所提的內容那這個部分我私下會再請教你那我們各自看看我們對立方"},{"start":751.966,"end":775.42,"text":"大家都有的好朋友在那邊能夠來協助解決這個問題好朋友難免會有意見不同就算親人都會有意見不同的時候那好朋友意見不同妥善解決而不是如果說把它停下來的話我個人會覺得有點可惜好不好 外交部加油委員的期待是我們的執命好 謝謝我們王定義委員質詢"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":388,"blocks":[["王委員定宇：（10時42分）好，謝謝主席，麻煩我們談判的副總代表。"],["顏副總談判代表慧欣：委員好。"],["王委員定宇：早。談判的內容，因為現在正在進行當中，我覺得基於國家的利益，沒有一個國家的談判會提前把自己的底牌陣容掀牌的，就算是在國會。我看到全世界國會，沒有一個國會會提早把自己的國家底牌掀牌的。談判結果是好是壞，大家都希望好，但這不是單方面在跳tango，這要兩方面來進行。我最近看到一些比較荒謬的情形，我要請教你，什麼時候可以宣布，或者什麼時候會有談判結果，是臺灣單方面可以決定的嗎？"],["顏副總談判代表慧欣：我想所有談判的國際慣例都是必須要雙方已經對明確的事情有共識，甚至需要在這個協議草簽之後，雙方都同意了，我們才能對外公開。"],["王委員定宇：很抱歉我問了一個這麼low、這麼沒有基本常識的問題，因為我竟然聽到我們國會裡面有人說，我們臺灣政府為了什麼大罷免，刻意把川普宣布臺灣關稅的時間往後延。天啊！臺灣如果可以指揮川普什麼時候宣布，我還想指揮他做別的事情！這個是常識題，國際談判的進程，美國一定考慮美國的國家利益嘛！臺灣一定考慮臺灣的國家利益，然後雙方give and take達成協議。根據國際慣例，怎麼宣布都會寫在裡面，什麼方式通過，至於是採取條約、協定、協議也要看雙方協議最後定案，所以過早去把它掀牌……其實我們要想的是臺灣廣大的中小企業，超過一千萬的勞工，其實跟這個都有關係。所以時間的進程並不是臺灣單一方面可以決定的啦！事實上，也不是美國單方面可以決定的，這是一個雙方要談判的事情。","然後再來，有人說談判內容沒有公開就是黑箱，你贊成這個說法嗎？"],["顏副總談判代表慧欣：我當然不贊成這個說法，因為我們談判團隊，我相信包括我們的行政院以及各部會，我們都有持續的，除了我們在這個委員會報告……"],["王委員定宇：我想會講這種話、講黑箱的人，指的是對國會透明啦。那我要詢問你，你參與這國際談判應該相當有經驗，做到副總代表了嘛。我們過去，不管在扁政府、馬政府、蔡英文政府，歷任的政府，李登輝的時候，你大概還沒當公務員，那太久了。在這麼長時間跟國際的談判，重大的經貿談判，在談判當中，有立法院參與過的紀錄嗎？"],["顏副總談判代表慧欣：跟委員報告，我是去年520才加入這個政府的，不過我的理解就是，我們當然會希望國會跟社會都有參與，但是這一次的談判，實際上不是傳統的經貿談判。但是我們儘可能維持透明度，所以我們這個談判過程，我們的各部會有以專題報告的方式、委員會報告的方式，以及各位委員也都有私底下請我們去做一些個別的討論。我想這就是我們在這個非常壓縮的談判期間，儘可能維持透明度的方式。"],["王委員定宇：之所以會壓縮，因為川普掀起的是一個非典型的關稅談判，以前關稅談判談十年……"],["顏副總談判代表慧欣：是。"],["王委員定宇：我印象韓國跟美國談FTA十年都沒有結果，最後有結果的時候在首爾街頭砸車子嘛！這一次川普掀起了一個真的是非傳統、非典型的關稅談判，而且關稅談判涉及的層面很廣，然後訊息又常常變化，突然間這個豁免，然後汽車業什麼豁免，後來明天又不豁免，這個談判過程當中，不是臺灣單方面決定的，所以國會的參與，透過一些專報，在經濟委員會、在各個委員會，或是像我們今天委員會，能釋放出來的訊息會儘量釋放。未來簽出來的，不管是條約、協議或協定，定案之後，我們就照立法院相關的程序進行，這個才是現在因應談判最沉穩的作法。","我最後請教你，就你了解，因為川普曾經說過，最後我都沒有講完的通通就是15%、20%。他曾經講過，但他講過很多事情，他還講過要炸北京嘛，我還沒看到。現在就是說，就你了解，臺灣的談判結果，就你們目前看到的方向，最後談到的結果我們大概會在什麼時候會有……因為他這個90 days pause已經要到了，已經過了。接下來後續我們大概什麼時候可以預計有個大概的結果？是8月底以前，還是怎麼樣？"],["顏副總談判代表慧欣：跟委員報告，我想川普總統就是在原本7月9號的deadline以前，他去宣布會延長到8月1號是deadline。所以我們現在不論我們拿到的稅率，我們現在當然沒有收到關稅信函，但是不論有沒有收到，我覺得我們到8月1號以前努力談判，就是我們的重點。"],["王委員定宇：所以8月1號的deadline到以前，我們希望能夠達到一個結果。"],["顏副總談判代表慧欣：是。"],["王委員定宇：deadline到還沒有宣布的，會照川普講的：都算你15%。他有點把這個當作躉售，你知道嗎？wholesale一次在弄。就是說8月1號以後沒有談成的，他會再延長，因為他常常延長，或者是後續接下來，目前看美方的資訊會全部採取15%左右。15%其實是不錯，因為目前我看最低的是英國10%，所以英國女王見他第二次了，這個是很難得的事情。英國是國王，現在不是女王。就你了解，如果8月1號到期，會發生什麼樣情形？"],["顏副總談判代表慧欣：我想川普總統所謂的10到15、20%，是針對現在原本4月2號公布對等關稅拿到10%的這些國家，他要一併提高到15到20%。但是臺灣是屬於原本有個別對等關稅的國家，也就是我們是貿易逆差存在的……"],["王委員定宇：他那時候加了32啊！"],["顏副總談判代表慧欣：對，所以我們可能還是會透過我們在8月1號以前努力談的這個關稅稅率，作為我們最終的目標。"],["王委員定宇：最後有結果出來，我覺得按照程序，其實不管是外交及國防委員會，或者是經濟委員會，我想國會都會排你們回來報告，這免不了的，所以有人……"],["顏副總談判代表慧欣：沒有問題。"],["王委員定宇：我是比較遺憾，面對這麼大的國際變革，各國都在因應的時候，政治紅利不應該從這邊賺取。","你先請回，我請外交部次長。"],["顏副總談判代表慧欣：謝謝。"],["王委員定宇：次長，你邊走邊聽我問，巴拉圭總統貝尼亞曾經留學臺灣，跟我們相當友好。他這兩天講的是，堅定跟臺灣站在一起。"],["陳次長明祺：是。"],["王委員定宇：而且他講一個重要的重點，說臺灣對巴拉圭的投資，其實他覺得是相當不錯的。這是對照中國用大撒幣挖走的，像宏都拉斯、薩爾瓦多都跳票，宏都拉斯的蝦農現在真的是瞎、瞎、瞎，「蝦、蝦、蝦」。現在這個對照就是跟臺灣理念相近，平等互惠的外交方式，我們現在跟巴拉圭、跟美國希望建立一個三角形的經貿關係。林佳龍部長率團在巴拉圭訪問，貝尼亞講的正面意義是臺、巴邦誼相當穩固，雖然中國還是拼命在滲透他們的在野黨。另外，他提到的是我們賴清德總統8月分要訪問巴拉圭，他先講出來了，臺灣很難去說有或沒有。我現在只問一個問題，如果按照往例，我國元首訪問巴拉圭，是不是一定會過境美國本土？"],["陳次長明祺：按照往例的時候，我們當然會選擇讓總統的出訪能夠以最便利、最快速的方式……"],["王委員定宇：三原則我會背，那個是美國三原則──安全、便利還有舒適。"],["陳次長明祺：尊嚴。"],["王委員定宇：我現在是說，我們到巴拉圭有沒有不過境美國本土以外的選擇路線？"],["陳次長明祺：說實在的，這次部長去就沒有途經美國。剛才委員說的三原則，現在有講到第四個，就是尊嚴。"],["王委員定宇：尊嚴，目前還好，我現在沒有看到過境美國會有一些尊嚴的問題。我的意思是說，8月分過境去巴拉圭訪問，這是邦交國的訪問，沒有問題，總統專機飛出去，如果不過境美國的話，難道要過境歐洲？還有一種情形，就是在所謂的境外美國領土，夏威夷或者阿拉斯加，就有其他安排，會被人家做外交上比較……我坦白講，比較往負向指標的詮釋。就你們外交部目前可以透露給國人的，我們規劃賴總統出訪我們邦交國過境美國，目前有沒有這樣的安排？"],["陳次長明祺：報告委員，第一個，如果已經有具體安排的時候，我們統一由總統府發布。第二個，在總統府的總體考量之下，外交部會全力配合，全力讓總統出訪能夠非常便利跟安全。"],["王委員定宇：訂飛機是你們的責任？"],["陳次長明祺：是。"],["王委員定宇：去訂了沒？"],["陳次長明祺：訂飛機是嗎？"],["王委員定宇：對啊。"],["陳次長明祺：訂專機嘛？"],["王委員定宇：訂專機。"],["陳次長明祺：當然，我們隨時都會……"],["王委員定宇：你們不可能隨時準備一架飛機在那邊。"],["陳次長明祺：我們隨時準備……"],["王委員定宇：簽約了沒？"],["陳次長明祺：要承受各種的工作。"],["王委員定宇：對啦，你這樣回答，我很難打你啦，這是標準答案。我們賴總統第一次能夠過境美國本土的話，呈現出來的互動、層級、議題，各界都會做文章。你知道賴清德總統過境美國到巴拉圭，這個事情我們還沒有確認，美國也還沒有確認，先跳腳的是誰？中共透過南華早報今天就先跳了，說這個不重要，比較重要的是川習會，顯現這個過境很重要，光從他透過南華早報的反應，就知道這個過境對區域的地緣政治、對於臺美關係其實很重要。請你們審慎注意過境美國的層級、議題，甚至於天數都會有影響，請你們妥善的規劃。","因為時間關係，我最後只問一件事情，我們跟立陶宛的半導體合作是否面臨全面終止？"],["陳次長明祺：沒有、沒有，沒有這樣的狀況。"],["王委員定宇：黃司長應該知道我在問什麼。"],["陳次長明祺：還在討論雙方都可以實現的一些做法。"],["王委員定宇：立陶宛坦白講真的是一個蠻好的朋友，他們在民主的價值上……黃司長過去就是我們駐立陶宛第一任的代表。跟他們的半導體合作，4個協議中，有3個問題不大，有1個雙方的期望值不一樣，如果因為那個期望值不同就全面終止，被負面解讀的機會就會相當大。我再清楚問完，我就結束我今天的質詢，我們跟立陶宛的半導體合作，有沒有全面終止或者中斷的危機？"],["陳次長明祺：我們請我們的立陶宛專家、歐洲司司長。"],["王委員定宇：來，黃司長。"],["黃司長鈞耀：報告委員，我們跟他們正在進行各種可能的討論，我們也希望未來能夠持續延續在半導體上的合作動能。"],["王委員定宇：這個討論你我都有參與過，我聽到最後有點發現是歪斜線，就是期望值的落差，透過立方一些友好的朋友，如果能夠理解那個落差，其實不是來自於臺灣的問題，而是這個產業相關的條件的話，包含實驗室的條件、相關條件的話，我覺得這個要充分溝通，因為那個部分如果終止，我們很怕有骨牌效應，我相信黃司長了解我所提的內容，這個部分，我私下會再請教你，我們各自看看我們對立方，大家都有好朋友在那邊，能夠來協助解決這個問題。好朋友難免會有意見不同，就算親人都會有意見不同的時候，好朋友意見不同，妥善解決，如果把它停下來的話，我個人會覺得有點可惜，好不好？外交部加油，謝謝。"],["陳次長明祺：委員的期待是我們的使命。"],["王委員定宇：謝謝，一起努力。"],["主席：謝謝王定宇委員質詢。","待會陳俊宇委員質詢完畢之後，休息5分鐘。","請林楚茵委員上臺質詢、林楚茵委員上臺質詢、林楚茵委員上臺質詢，林楚茵不在。","請陳俊宇委員上臺質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":50,"meet_id":"委員會-11-3-35-22","speakers":["黃仁","王定宇","陳永康","羅美玲","徐巧芯","馬文君","黃國昌","陳俊宇","林憶君","林倩綺","陳冠廷","李坤城","沈伯洋","林楚茵"],"page_start":1,"meetingDate":["2025-07-16"],"gazette_id":"1146701","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1146701_00002"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期外交及國防委員會第22次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請外交部部長、國家安全局局長、經濟部次長、財政部次長、農業部次長、行政院經貿談判辦\n公室副總談判代表報告「台美對等關稅談判進度、預期成果、對我國可能之衝擊及因應策略」，\n並備質詢","agenda_id":"1146701_00001"}}}