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{\"word\": \"面\", \"start\": 545.752, \"end\": 545.772, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"咧\"}]}, {\"start\": 550.523, \"end\": 564.183, \"text\": \"這個部分不是衛福部的權責 這個我們就尊重法務司法院這邊的一個權責那我再請問一下 家暴法第31條有所謂的預防性的羈押\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 550.523, \"end\": 550.623, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"分\", \"start\": 550.623, \"end\": 551.704, \"score\": 0.948}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 551.704, \"end\": 551.804, \"score\": 0.987}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 551.804, \"end\": 552.205, \"score\": 0.949}, {\"word\": \"衛\"}, {\"word\": \"福\", \"start\": 552.205, \"end\": 552.345, \"score\": 0.866}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 552.345, \"end\": 552.405, \"score\": 0.888}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 552.405, \"end\": 552.966, \"score\": 0.855}, {\"word\": \"權\"}, {\"word\": \"責\"}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 552.966, \"end\": 553.206, \"score\": 0.912}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 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{\"word\": \"問\"}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 559.756, \"end\": 559.856, \"score\": 0.822}, {\"word\": \"下\", \"start\": 559.856, \"end\": 560.497, \"score\": 0.914}, {\"word\": \"家\", \"start\": 560.497, \"end\": 560.637, \"score\": 0.852}, {\"word\": \"暴\", \"start\": 560.637, \"end\": 560.818, \"score\": 0.888}, {\"word\": \"法\", \"start\": 560.818, \"end\": 561.018, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"第\", \"start\": 561.018, \"end\": 562.46, \"score\": 0.928}, {\"word\": \"3\"}, {\"word\": \"1\"}, {\"word\": \"條\"}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 562.46, \"end\": 562.64, \"score\": 0.914}, {\"word\": \"所\", \"start\": 562.64, \"end\": 562.901, \"score\": 0.91}, {\"word\": \"謂\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 562.901, \"end\": 563.321, \"score\": 0.951}, {\"word\": \"預\"}, {\"word\": \"防\", \"start\": 563.321, \"end\": 563.562, \"score\": 0.978}, {\"word\": \"性\", \"start\": 563.562, \"end\": 563.762, \"score\": 0.957}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 563.762, \"end\": 564.163, \"score\": 0.948}, {\"word\": \"羈\"}, {\"word\": \"押\", \"start\": 564.163, \"end\": 564.183, \"score\": 0.003}]}, {\"start\": 565.785, \"end\": 581.725, \"text\": \"那我們預防性的羈押是不是大家覺得說因為沒有足夠的一些證據或是怎麼樣所以很少去用到這一條預防性羈押這部分我是不是請那個複密處長或是徐市長你們都回答一下\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 565.785, \"end\": 566.125, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 566.125, \"end\": 566.466, \"score\": 0.882}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"預\"}, {\"word\": \"防\", \"start\": 566.466, \"end\": 566.686, \"score\": 0.933}, {\"word\": \"性\", \"start\": 566.686, \"end\": 566.866, \"score\": 0.859}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 566.866, \"end\": 567.207, \"score\": 0.929}, {\"word\": \"羈\"}, {\"word\": \"押\", \"start\": 567.207, \"end\": 568.408, \"score\": 0.983}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 568.408, \"end\": 568.528, \"score\": 0.987}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 568.528, \"end\": 568.629, \"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 568.629, \"end\": 568.749, \"score\": 0.995}, {\"word\": \"大\", 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{\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 576.218, \"end\": 576.378, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"分\", \"start\": 576.378, \"end\": 577.74, \"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 577.74, \"end\": 577.86, \"score\": 0.856}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 577.86, \"end\": 577.96, \"score\": 0.819}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 577.96, \"end\": 578.24, \"score\": 0.86}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 578.24, \"end\": 579.282, \"score\": 0.942}, {\"word\": \"請\"}, {\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 579.282, \"end\": 579.562, \"score\": 0.851}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"複\"}, {\"word\": \"密\", \"start\": 579.562, \"end\": 579.962, \"score\": 0.863}, {\"word\": \"處\"}, {\"word\": \"長\"}, {\"word\": \"或\", \"start\": 579.962, \"end\": 580.143, \"score\": 0.932}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 580.143, \"end\": 580.323, \"score\": 0.899}, {\"word\": \"徐\", \"start\": 580.323, \"end\": 580.483, \"score\": 0.876}, {\"word\": \"市\", \"start\": 580.483, \"end\": 580.623, \"score\": 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787.599, \"end\": 787.619, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"強\"}, {\"word\": \"宣\", \"start\": 787.619, \"end\": 787.639, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"導\"}, {\"word\": \"跟\", \"start\": 787.639, \"end\": 787.779, \"score\": 0.854}, {\"word\": \"訓\"}, {\"word\": \"練\"}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 787.779, \"end\": 787.839, \"score\": 0.666}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"主\", \"start\": 787.839, \"end\": 787.899, \"score\": 0.666}, {\"word\": \"席\", \"start\": 787.899, \"end\": 787.919, \"score\": 0.0}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:08,844 --> 00:00:17,009\n謝謝主席那我們請這個司法院的副秘書長馬文副秘然後法務部的次長衛福部的次長兩位次長\n\n2\n00:00:24,229 --> 00:00:50,847\n今天我們談論這個主題那當然主要事發是主因是在7月7號塗成這個不訓練這個事件那這件事情其實大家都知道那我現在想請問一下包括我們社法院法務部還有衛福部如果啦如果有機會阻止悲劇的話現在你們來想當時候在做哪些的一些程序哪些措施如果做下去的話有可能防止這個悲劇來發生\n\n3\n00:00:52,130 --> 00:00:53,423\n我們先請那個副秘書長好不好\n\n4\n00:00:57,491 --> 00:01:25,354\n跟委員那個報告就是有關於那個家暴那個防治呢他是一個全網絡的就是他連結各機關那就是說從一剛開始譬如說他合法保護令的時候他一定要有充分的那個資訊給那個法院所以呢就是說像那個警政機關他們那個家防官或者是說主管機關他們那個社工呢就是對於評估要很精準的去評估說這個個案他是不是屬於一個高風險的那個個案\n\n5\n00:01:25,874 --> 00:01:41,456\n那也因此就是說他的這個其實現在都已經有相關的這一些那個評估的那個量表了就是說這些要非常那個精準的把這個風險因子把它給那個抓出來那像譬如說\n\n6\n00:01:41,877 --> 00:02:11,580\n但是我覺得就這件來講當初是有哪些環節疏忽掉的在法院這部分我現在要連結講就是說像這一件進到法院來的時候事實上我們開庭所有的相關的措施就是保護措施什麼隔離之類的都做了那當時7月7號當天就是說被害人他離開的時候也有護送他社工有護送他坐計程車離開了那所以說其實在法院端這些該做的都做了那就是\n\n7\n00:02:13,421 --> 00:02:27,806\n但是我要提到一點就是連結到剛剛那個就是說他這一件當時事實上法院涉案的時候他的這個風險的那個評估量表事實上這上面所評估的那個風險那個分數事實上是不高的那這是由誰來寫的\n\n8\n00:02:29,378 --> 00:02:39,995\n這是由那個家防官家防官來寫的那家防官是比如說是這個被害人他的陳述嗎警政機關警政機關警政機關他來看\n\n9\n00:02:43,993 --> 00:03:05,564\n那個受害者他的被害人他的陳述嗎那還是這一個警政機關他們怎麼樣去去做這件事情那次長要那個學次長要做個說明嗎還是警政署要做個說明這一個是警政署的警政署因為剛剛複密有提到這一塊因為我想說有哪些環節可以把它補起來的啦\n\n10\n00:03:07,767 --> 00:03:28,683\n我跟委員報告一下這個親密關係的這個危險評估表我們叫TIDA量表它有八項是要詢問被害人自己的感受那有五項是被害人自行陳述他是不是覺得有危險的狀況那它這個八項裡面呢都是很具體的譬如說對方是不是有曾經做出一些危險或動作傷害當初的被害人\n\n11\n00:03:29,625 --> 00:03:36,487\n在這個陳述裡面這個量表裡面所陳述出來的是很低的是很低的是很低的初期的時候是很低一直到7月2號因為他前幾天這個發生有這個槍隊人對他還有一些打電話騷擾他或者是有一些騷擾這個到他的工作場所去騷擾的動作他又重複再去報案的時候他自己的評估的這個危險程度就很高\n\n12\n00:03:57,632 --> 00:04:20,912\n所以那個時候我們就把他通報成是一個高風險的個案所以當時候有通報通報給社政系統那法院或是說檢察官那邊知道這個情況嗎如果在這個通報的階段是還沒有進入到法院或者是檢察官因為他這個案子在初期五月份受理的時候那這個斷層就在這邊有出現了一個啦\n\n13\n00:04:23,615 --> 00:04:35,951\n不是因為他這個案子初期的時候已經有申請保護令在等待審核對我是說後來當這個受害人他說這個已經你們也認為說他是屬於高風險了但是呢在法院端或是說檢察官那邊還沒有得到這個訊息\n\n14\n00:04:40,373 --> 00:05:01,486\n高危機的個案就是進入社政系統的評估跟我們在保護令執行的對只有到社政系統而已但是還沒有到法院端還沒有到檢察官那邊到法院端就是我們依照它違反保護令罪的狀況我們再調查之後再搜最新的那個情況就是說剛開始被害人可能覺得說風險沒那麼高但是後來風險有提高了嘛\n\n15\n00:05:02,466 --> 00:05:11,458\n那風險提高之後我要說的就是說除了社政單位知道之外然後在法院在檢察官那邊是哪時候那所以檢察官知道這個訊息嗎\n\n16\n00:05:21,092 --> 00:05:46,558\n沒有這個案子到7月7號我們才拿到相關的資料對啊那所以就是斷層就是在這邊嘛我這樣問啦就是說大家都在這邊嘛那斷層就在這邊就是當受害人他已經覺得說這一個他的先生這個謝姓男子已經對他造成一些高風險的一些有可能一些傷害的可能性那但是呢在法院或是在檢察官這邊沒有得到這個訊息\n\n17\n00:05:47,518 --> 00:05:59,021\n他只有通報到社政系統所以我在想說這個當你們知道這個訊息之後你們要怎麼樣通報目前是這條線是沒有那還是說有但是你們沒有去做咧\n\n18\n00:06:01,295 --> 00:06:24,779\n這個部分因為它涉及到地檢署的管轄不同土城分局的這個案子我們第一階段已經處理了但是後來到工作場所去騷擾的時候是台北市所以我們台北市是報台北市的檢察官指揮那是在7月2號所以這個部分我們有通報但是這個地檢署的管轄不同那所以說你有通報給台北地檢署\n\n19\n00:06:28,774 --> 00:06:45,788\n所以這樣問起來這個就是一個問題了啊就是說當你們知道說這個風險增加的時候但是在檢察官或是在法院這邊並不知道這件事情我這樣聽起來是這樣子嘛那我再請教一下徐次長那這件事情呢你們有做過檢討嗎\n\n20\n00:06:47,174 --> 00:07:04,684\n有我想我們最主要是有兩點第一個就是我們剛才問的這些網絡的夥伴一定要建立高風險評估機制我們各部會資訊要及時能夠串接以提供給檢察官這件事情來講\n\n21\n00:07:05,644 --> 00:07:33,617\n對就是事後檢討就是這樣就是說我們現在就是你們有這個狀況的話一定要趕快通報告把相關的資料每一次只要聯繫檢察官的時候一定要把所有的資料都附在裡面包括7月6號那一天有他毀損的時候你用違反保護令罪過來的時候你相關的評估報告跟所有的事證都要附在那一個案子裡面就現在沒有那時候當時是沒有沒有沒有附所以你們也不知道不知道\n\n22\n00:07:34,517 --> 00:08:01,996\n好那我請一下那個衛福部我們市長那這件事情因為你們前幾天也開過會嘛是沒錯那對這件事情呢對沒錯確實就誠如剛剛許市長剛剛所說我們現在認為就是說確實這一整個我們當然是設政可是裡面有包括警察還有包括這一就是警察同仁還有檢察官這邊剛剛說的整個資料串接啦這個部分我覺得是我們事後檢討我們認為應該要趕快來補期的部分所以這個\n\n23\n00:08:04,318 --> 00:08:24,038\n這個斷層就發生了訊息之間彼此沒有流通啊對沒錯沒錯就高風險的這一個通報啦通報的情況好那我再請問一下現在就是說按照資料來講有這個發給保護令之後有八成的加害人沒有再有肢體的暴力但是還是有兩層還是有兩層那這兩層的話你們要怎麼樣去做\n\n24\n00:08:27,922 --> 00:08:42,058\n處理就是說能夠讓已經合法保護令之後我們還是希望說加害人的這些肢體暴力的行為能夠降到最低其實剛剛有提到就是說第61條其實我們現在目前是說三年以下其實\n\n25\n00:08:44,420 --> 00:09:05,772\n當天其實也有這一個也有委員建議其實這個刑責就是嚇阻的部分或許可以再來提高因為我們現在三年可能提高到譬如說就是說一定的這一個年度不過這個當然是牽涉到整個修法的那個過程還有另外一個就是說有提到說這一個違反這個家暴法對沒錯它的整個是一個嚇阻的這一個那刑事訴訟法這方面咧\n\n26\n00:09:10,523 --> 00:09:24,183\n這個部分不是衛福部的權責這個我們就尊重法務司法院這邊的一個權責那我再請問一下家暴法第31條有所謂的預防性的羈押\n\n27\n00:09:25,785 --> 00:09:41,725\n那我們預防性的羈押是不是大家覺得說因為沒有足夠的一些證據或是怎麼樣所以很少去用到這一條預防性羈押這部分我是不是請那個複密處長或是徐市長你們都回答一下\n\n28\n00:09:43,735 --> 00:09:55,981\n我跟委員報告預防性羈押的話當然就是一個防止這個進一步的危害發生但是它有一個要件就要重複反覆實施的要件所以這個案子是沒有\n\n29\n00:09:57,200 --> 00:10:18,139\n他的現存的資料是沒有這樣不符合但是關於這個31條預防性羈押你們這一個使用這一條的機會大嗎因為我看說檢察官申請羈押混准大概100多件而已113年總共違反保護令罪是6048人那預防性羈押153人偏低啊\n\n30\n00:10:22,602 --> 00:10:34,226\n這個有要件的我知道有要件啦我意思是說是不是因為他的要件就像市長所講的要一個反覆實施要有危險有危險那還是很慎重的可是因為這個個案大家又開始要討論說這個所謂預防性羈押\n\n31\n00:10:39,059 --> 00:10:52,648\n的真的實施上這一條雖然法有定但是好像實際上能夠用到這一條的機會不多所以我們就是要補那一塊所謂的反覆實施有利己為再犯其的風險所以我們才會是說欸這一個\n\n32\n00:10:54,589 --> 00:11:16,924\n高風險評估要隨著案件要進來檢察官才能夠判斷說是不是符合這個預防性羈押這個很重要好那我最後再問好因為時間要到主席站起來了那問一下副秘書長我們加法保第31條這個我們有所謂的刑事保護令那刑事保護令的這個合法的比例是不是也是偏低\n\n33\n00:11:18,001 --> 00:11:45,072\n不是說在這一件因為他這一件譬如說他問完之後發現說他這個沒有羈押的必要但是呢那至少我們可以這個包含31條的第一款到第五款都有一些條件可以要求這一個我們的被告要去遵守那像這個案件也沒有嘛那我的意思是說我們是不是可以為了增加嚇阻力來提高這個刑事這個保護令的合法的比例\n\n34\n00:11:46,883 --> 00:12:04,931\n報告委員這個案件中他的那個羈押是他沒有向法院那個申請羈押所以說法院當然也無從就是會去下這些相關的這些那個保護鏈那過去咧就是說這個合法刑事保護鏈的比例咧來來那一個次長\n\n35\n00:12:10,848 --> 00:12:30,991\n我們在偵查中發這種刑事保護令目前大概是六成因為我看一下你們這個數字這應該是大概五成五成五到六成左右啦但是就是說這個預知的比率六成然後按照這個下面是哪些款項\n\n36\n00:12:32,879 --> 00:12:49,269\n比如說第一款到第五款啊大概的是有哪一些範圍通常是第二款一二款都有可能那個是比較立即的那個危險那我是希望啦就是說剛剛看也發生說有一些斷層\n\n37\n00:12:50,410 --> 00:13:07,919\n那剛才就是說第31條這個預防性羈押的這部分我是希望說藉由這個個案我們再去討論你們怎麼樣把這個反覆實施然後具有這個傷害性這邊把它這個不論是更明確化一點點或是說看怎麼樣去做一個說明跟解釋讓這一條有實際上應用的一個機會啦我們會加強宣導跟訓練好謝謝謝謝主席\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n8844\t17009\t謝謝主席那我們請這個司法院的副秘書長馬文副秘然後法務部的次長 衛福部的次長兩位次長\n24229\t50847\t今天我們談論這個主題那當然主要事發是 主因是在7月7號塗成這個不訓練這個事件那這件事情其實大家都知道那我現在想請問一下包括我們社法院法務部還有衛福部如果啦 如果有機會阻止悲劇的話現在你們來想當時候在做哪些的一些程序 哪些措施如果做下去的話有可能防止這個悲劇來發生\n52130\t53423\t我們先請那個副秘書長好不好\n57491\t85354\t跟委員那個報告就是有關於那個家暴那個防治呢他是一個全網絡的就是他連結各機關那就是說從一剛開始譬如說他合法保護令的時候他一定要有充分的那個資訊給那個法院所以呢就是說像那個警政機關他們那個家防官或者是說主管機關他們那個社工呢就是對於評估要很精準的去評估說這個個案他是不是屬於一個高風險的那個個案\n85874\t101456\t那也因此就是說他的這個其實現在都已經有相關的這一些那個評估的那個量表了就是說這些要非常那個精準的把這個風險因子把它給那個抓出來那像譬如說\n101877\t131580\t但是我覺得就這件來講當初是有哪些環節疏忽掉的在法院這部分我現在要連結講就是說像這一件進到法院來的時候事實上我們開庭所有的相關的措施就是保護措施什麼隔離之類的都做了那當時7月7號當天就是說被害人他離開的時候也有護送他社工有護送他坐計程車離開了那所以說其實在法院端這些該做的都做了那就是\n133421\t147806\t但是我要提到一點就是連結到剛剛那個就是說他這一件當時事實上法院涉案的時候他的這個風險的那個評估量表事實上這上面所評估的那個風險那個分數事實上是不高的那這是由誰來寫的\n149378\t159995\t這是由那個家防官家防官來寫的那家防官是比如說是這個被害人他的陳述嗎警政機關警政機關警政機關他來看\n163993\t185564\t那個受害者他的被害人他的陳述嗎那還是這一個警政機關他們怎麼樣去去做這件事情那次長要那個學次長要做個說明嗎還是警政署要做個說明這一個是警政署的警政署因為剛剛複密有提到這一塊因為我想說有哪些環節可以把它補起來的啦\n187767\t208683\t我跟委員報告一下這個親密關係的這個危險評估表我們叫TIDA量表它有八項是要詢問被害人自己的感受那有五項是被害人自行陳述他是不是覺得有危險的狀況那它這個八項裡面呢都是很具體的譬如說對方是不是有曾經做出一些危險或動作傷害當初的被害人\n209625\t216487\t在這個陳述裡面這個量表裡面所陳述出來的是很低的是很低的是很低的初期的時候是很低一直到7月2號因為他前幾天這個發生有這個槍隊人對他還有一些打電話騷擾他或者是有一些騷擾這個到他的工作場所去騷擾的動作他又重複再去報案的時候他自己的評估的這個危險程度就很高\n237632\t260912\t所以那個時候我們就把他通報成是一個高風險的個案所以當時候有通報通報給社政系統那法院或是說檢察官那邊知道這個情況嗎如果在這個通報的階段是還沒有進入到法院或者是檢察官因為他這個案子在初期五月份受理的時候那這個斷層就在這邊有出現了一個啦\n263615\t275951\t不是因為他這個案子初期的時候已經有申請保護令在等待審核對 我是說後來當這個受害人他說這個已經你們也認為說他是屬於高風險了但是呢在法院端或是說檢察官那邊還沒有得到這個訊息\n280373\t301486\t高危機的個案就是進入社政系統的評估跟我們在保護令執行的對 只有到社政系統而已但是還沒有到法院端還沒有到檢察官那邊到法院端就是我們依照它違反保護令罪的狀況我們再調查之後再搜最新的那個情況就是說剛開始被害人可能覺得說風險沒那麼高但是後來風險有提高了嘛\n302466\t311458\t那風險提高之後我要說的就是說除了社政單位知道之外然後在法院在檢察官那邊是哪時候那所以檢察官知道這個訊息嗎\n321092\t346558\t沒有 這個案子到7月7號我們才拿到相關的資料對啊 那所以就是斷層就是在這邊嘛我這樣問啦 就是說大家都在這邊嘛那斷層就在這邊 就是當受害人他已經覺得說這一個他的先生 這個謝姓男子已經對他造成一些高風險的一些 有可能一些傷害的可能性那但是呢 在法院或是在檢察官這邊沒有得到這個訊息\n347518\t359021\t他只有通報到 社政系統所以我在想說這個 當你們知道這個訊息之後你們要怎麼樣通報目前是這條線是沒有那還是說有 但是你們沒有去做咧\n361295\t384779\t這個部分因為它涉及到地檢署的管轄不同土城分局的這個案子我們第一階段已經處理了但是後來到工作場所去騷擾的時候是台北市所以我們台北市是報台北市的檢察官指揮那是在7月2號所以這個部分我們有通報但是這個地檢署的管轄不同那所以說你有通報給台北地檢署\n388774\t405788\t所以這樣問起來這個就是一個問題了啊就是說當你們知道說這個風險增加的時候但是在檢察官或是在法院這邊並不知道這件事情我這樣聽起來是這樣子嘛那我再請教一下徐次長那這件事情呢你們有做過檢討嗎\n407174\t424684\t有 我想我們最主要是有兩點第一個就是我們剛才問的這些網絡的夥伴一定要建立高風險評估機制我們各部會資訊要及時能夠串接以提供給檢察官這件事情來講\n425644\t453617\t對就是事後檢討就是這樣就是說我們現在就是你們有這個狀況的話一定要趕快通報告把相關的資料每一次只要聯繫檢察官的時候一定要把所有的資料都附在裡面包括7月6號那一天有他毀損的時候你用違反保護令罪過來的時候你相關的評估報告跟所有的事證都要附在那一個案子裡面就現在沒有那時候當時是沒有沒有沒有附所以你們也不知道不知道\n454517\t481996\t好 那我請一下那個衛福部 我們市長那這件事情 因為你們前幾天也開過會嘛是 沒錯那對這件事情呢對 沒錯 確實就誠如剛剛許市長剛剛所說我們現在認為就是說確實這一整個我們當然是設政 可是裡面有包括警察還有包括這一 就是警察同仁還有檢察官這邊剛剛說的整個資料串接啦這個部分我覺得是我們事後檢討我們認為應該要趕快來補期的部分所以這個\n484318\t504038\t這個斷層就發生了 訊息之間彼此沒有流通啊對 沒錯 沒錯 就高風險的這一個通報啦 通報的情況好 那我再請問一下 現在就是說按照資料來講 有這個發給保護令之後有八成的加害人沒有再有肢體的暴力但是還是有兩層 還是有兩層 那這兩層的話你們要怎麼樣去做\n507922\t522058\t處理就是說能夠讓已經合法保護令之後我們還是希望說加害人的這些肢體暴力的行為能夠降到最低其實剛剛有提到就是說第61條其實我們現在目前是說三年以下其實\n524420\t545772\t當天其實也有這一個 也有委員建議其實這個刑責 就是嚇阻的部分 或許可以再來提高因為我們現在三年 可能提高到譬如說 就是說一定的這一個年度不過這個當然是牽涉到整個修法的那個過程還有另外一個就是說有提到說這一個違反這個家暴法對 沒錯 它的整個是一個嚇阻的這一個那刑事訴訟法這方面咧\n550523\t564183\t這個部分不是衛福部的權責 這個我們就尊重法務司法院這邊的一個權責那我再請問一下 家暴法第31條有所謂的預防性的羈押\n565785\t581725\t那我們預防性的羈押是不是大家覺得說因為沒有足夠的一些證據或是怎麼樣所以很少去用到這一條預防性羈押這部分我是不是請那個複密處長或是徐市長你們都回答一下\n583735\t595981\t我跟委員報告 預防性羈押的話當然就是一個防止這個進一步的危害發生但是它有一個要件就要重複反覆實施的要件所以這個案子是沒有\n597200\t618139\t他的現存的資料是沒有這樣不符合但是關於這個31條預防性羈押你們這一個使用這一條的機會大嗎因為我看說檢察官申請羈押混准大概100多件而已113年總共違反保護令罪是6048人那預防性羈押153人偏低啊\n622602\t634226\t這個有要件的我知道有要件啦我意思是說是不是因為他的要件就像市長所講的要一個反覆實施要有危險有危險那還是很慎重的可是因為這個個案大家又開始要討論說這個所謂預防性羈押\n639059\t652648\t的真的實施上這一條雖然法有定但是好像實際上能夠用到這一條的機會不多所以我們就是要補那一塊所謂的反覆實施有利己為再犯其的風險所以我們才會是說欸這一個\n654589\t676924\t高風險評估要隨著案件要進來檢察官才能夠判斷說是不是符合這個預防性羈押這個很重要好那我最後再問好因為時間要到主席站起來了那問一下副秘書長我們加法保第31條這個我們有所謂的刑事保護令那刑事保護令的這個合法的比例是不是也是偏低\n678001\t705072\t不是說在這一件 因為他這一件 譬如說他問完之後發現說他這個沒有羈押的必要但是呢 那至少我們可以這個包含31條的第一款到第五款都有一些條件可以要求這一個我們的被告要去遵守那像這個案件也沒有嘛 那我的意思是說我們是不是可以為了增加嚇阻力來提高這個刑事這個保護令的合法的比例\n706883\t724931\t報告委員 這個案件中他的那個羈押是他沒有向法院那個申請羈押所以說法院當然也無從就是會去下這些相關的這些那個保護鏈那過去咧 就是說這個合法刑事保護鏈的比例咧來來 那一個次長\n730848\t750991\t我們在偵查中發這種刑事保護令目前大概是六成因為我看一下你們這個數字這應該是大概五成五成五到六成左右啦但是就是說這個預知的比率六成然後按照這個下面是哪些款項\n752879\t769269\t比如說第一款到第五款啊大概的是有哪一些範圍通常是第二款一二款都有可能那個是比較立即的那個危險那我是希望啦就是說剛剛看也發生說有一些斷層\n770410\t787919\t那剛才就是說第31條這個預防性羈押的這部分我是希望說藉由這個個案我們再去討論你們怎麼樣把這個反覆實施然後具有這個傷害性這邊把它這個不論是更明確化一點點或是說看怎麼樣去做一個說明跟解釋讓這一條有實際上應用的一個機會啦我們會加強宣導跟訓練好 謝謝 謝謝主席\n","txt":"謝謝主席那我們請這個司法院的副秘書長馬文副秘然後法務部的次長 衛福部的次長兩位次長\n今天我們談論這個主題那當然主要事發是 主因是在7月7號塗成這個不訓練這個事件那這件事情其實大家都知道那我現在想請問一下包括我們社法院法務部還有衛福部如果啦 如果有機會阻止悲劇的話現在你們來想當時候在做哪些的一些程序 哪些措施如果做下去的話有可能防止這個悲劇來發生\n我們先請那個副秘書長好不好\n跟委員那個報告就是有關於那個家暴那個防治呢他是一個全網絡的就是他連結各機關那就是說從一剛開始譬如說他合法保護令的時候他一定要有充分的那個資訊給那個法院所以呢就是說像那個警政機關他們那個家防官或者是說主管機關他們那個社工呢就是對於評估要很精準的去評估說這個個案他是不是屬於一個高風險的那個個案\n那也因此就是說他的這個其實現在都已經有相關的這一些那個評估的那個量表了就是說這些要非常那個精準的把這個風險因子把它給那個抓出來那像譬如說\n但是我覺得就這件來講當初是有哪些環節疏忽掉的在法院這部分我現在要連結講就是說像這一件進到法院來的時候事實上我們開庭所有的相關的措施就是保護措施什麼隔離之類的都做了那當時7月7號當天就是說被害人他離開的時候也有護送他社工有護送他坐計程車離開了那所以說其實在法院端這些該做的都做了那就是\n但是我要提到一點就是連結到剛剛那個就是說他這一件當時事實上法院涉案的時候他的這個風險的那個評估量表事實上這上面所評估的那個風險那個分數事實上是不高的那這是由誰來寫的\n這是由那個家防官家防官來寫的那家防官是比如說是這個被害人他的陳述嗎警政機關警政機關警政機關他來看\n那個受害者他的被害人他的陳述嗎那還是這一個警政機關他們怎麼樣去去做這件事情那次長要那個學次長要做個說明嗎還是警政署要做個說明這一個是警政署的警政署因為剛剛複密有提到這一塊因為我想說有哪些環節可以把它補起來的啦\n我跟委員報告一下這個親密關係的這個危險評估表我們叫TIDA量表它有八項是要詢問被害人自己的感受那有五項是被害人自行陳述他是不是覺得有危險的狀況那它這個八項裡面呢都是很具體的譬如說對方是不是有曾經做出一些危險或動作傷害當初的被害人\n在這個陳述裡面這個量表裡面所陳述出來的是很低的是很低的是很低的初期的時候是很低一直到7月2號因為他前幾天這個發生有這個槍隊人對他還有一些打電話騷擾他或者是有一些騷擾這個到他的工作場所去騷擾的動作他又重複再去報案的時候他自己的評估的這個危險程度就很高\n所以那個時候我們就把他通報成是一個高風險的個案所以當時候有通報通報給社政系統那法院或是說檢察官那邊知道這個情況嗎如果在這個通報的階段是還沒有進入到法院或者是檢察官因為他這個案子在初期五月份受理的時候那這個斷層就在這邊有出現了一個啦\n不是因為他這個案子初期的時候已經有申請保護令在等待審核對 我是說後來當這個受害人他說這個已經你們也認為說他是屬於高風險了但是呢在法院端或是說檢察官那邊還沒有得到這個訊息\n高危機的個案就是進入社政系統的評估跟我們在保護令執行的對 只有到社政系統而已但是還沒有到法院端還沒有到檢察官那邊到法院端就是我們依照它違反保護令罪的狀況我們再調查之後再搜最新的那個情況就是說剛開始被害人可能覺得說風險沒那麼高但是後來風險有提高了嘛\n那風險提高之後我要說的就是說除了社政單位知道之外然後在法院在檢察官那邊是哪時候那所以檢察官知道這個訊息嗎\n沒有 這個案子到7月7號我們才拿到相關的資料對啊 那所以就是斷層就是在這邊嘛我這樣問啦 就是說大家都在這邊嘛那斷層就在這邊 就是當受害人他已經覺得說這一個他的先生 這個謝姓男子已經對他造成一些高風險的一些 有可能一些傷害的可能性那但是呢 在法院或是在檢察官這邊沒有得到這個訊息\n他只有通報到 社政系統所以我在想說這個 當你們知道這個訊息之後你們要怎麼樣通報目前是這條線是沒有那還是說有 但是你們沒有去做咧\n這個部分因為它涉及到地檢署的管轄不同土城分局的這個案子我們第一階段已經處理了但是後來到工作場所去騷擾的時候是台北市所以我們台北市是報台北市的檢察官指揮那是在7月2號所以這個部分我們有通報但是這個地檢署的管轄不同那所以說你有通報給台北地檢署\n所以這樣問起來這個就是一個問題了啊就是說當你們知道說這個風險增加的時候但是在檢察官或是在法院這邊並不知道這件事情我這樣聽起來是這樣子嘛那我再請教一下徐次長那這件事情呢你們有做過檢討嗎\n有 我想我們最主要是有兩點第一個就是我們剛才問的這些網絡的夥伴一定要建立高風險評估機制我們各部會資訊要及時能夠串接以提供給檢察官這件事情來講\n對就是事後檢討就是這樣就是說我們現在就是你們有這個狀況的話一定要趕快通報告把相關的資料每一次只要聯繫檢察官的時候一定要把所有的資料都附在裡面包括7月6號那一天有他毀損的時候你用違反保護令罪過來的時候你相關的評估報告跟所有的事證都要附在那一個案子裡面就現在沒有那時候當時是沒有沒有沒有附所以你們也不知道不知道\n好 那我請一下那個衛福部 我們市長那這件事情 因為你們前幾天也開過會嘛是 沒錯那對這件事情呢對 沒錯 確實就誠如剛剛許市長剛剛所說我們現在認為就是說確實這一整個我們當然是設政 可是裡面有包括警察還有包括這一 就是警察同仁還有檢察官這邊剛剛說的整個資料串接啦這個部分我覺得是我們事後檢討我們認為應該要趕快來補期的部分所以這個\n這個斷層就發生了 訊息之間彼此沒有流通啊對 沒錯 沒錯 就高風險的這一個通報啦 通報的情況好 那我再請問一下 現在就是說按照資料來講 有這個發給保護令之後有八成的加害人沒有再有肢體的暴力但是還是有兩層 還是有兩層 那這兩層的話你們要怎麼樣去做\n處理就是說能夠讓已經合法保護令之後我們還是希望說加害人的這些肢體暴力的行為能夠降到最低其實剛剛有提到就是說第61條其實我們現在目前是說三年以下其實\n當天其實也有這一個 也有委員建議其實這個刑責 就是嚇阻的部分 或許可以再來提高因為我們現在三年 可能提高到譬如說 就是說一定的這一個年度不過這個當然是牽涉到整個修法的那個過程還有另外一個就是說有提到說這一個違反這個家暴法對 沒錯 它的整個是一個嚇阻的這一個那刑事訴訟法這方面咧\n這個部分不是衛福部的權責 這個我們就尊重法務司法院這邊的一個權責那我再請問一下 家暴法第31條有所謂的預防性的羈押\n那我們預防性的羈押是不是大家覺得說因為沒有足夠的一些證據或是怎麼樣所以很少去用到這一條預防性羈押這部分我是不是請那個複密處長或是徐市長你們都回答一下\n我跟委員報告 預防性羈押的話當然就是一個防止這個進一步的危害發生但是它有一個要件就要重複反覆實施的要件所以這個案子是沒有\n他的現存的資料是沒有這樣不符合但是關於這個31條預防性羈押你們這一個使用這一條的機會大嗎因為我看說檢察官申請羈押混准大概100多件而已113年總共違反保護令罪是6048人那預防性羈押153人偏低啊\n這個有要件的我知道有要件啦我意思是說是不是因為他的要件就像市長所講的要一個反覆實施要有危險有危險那還是很慎重的可是因為這個個案大家又開始要討論說這個所謂預防性羈押\n的真的實施上這一條雖然法有定但是好像實際上能夠用到這一條的機會不多所以我們就是要補那一塊所謂的反覆實施有利己為再犯其的風險所以我們才會是說欸這一個\n高風險評估要隨著案件要進來檢察官才能夠判斷說是不是符合這個預防性羈押這個很重要好那我最後再問好因為時間要到主席站起來了那問一下副秘書長我們加法保第31條這個我們有所謂的刑事保護令那刑事保護令的這個合法的比例是不是也是偏低\n不是說在這一件 因為他這一件 譬如說他問完之後發現說他這個沒有羈押的必要但是呢 那至少我們可以這個包含31條的第一款到第五款都有一些條件可以要求這一個我們的被告要去遵守那像這個案件也沒有嘛 那我的意思是說我們是不是可以為了增加嚇阻力來提高這個刑事這個保護令的合法的比例\n報告委員 這個案件中他的那個羈押是他沒有向法院那個申請羈押所以說法院當然也無從就是會去下這些相關的這些那個保護鏈那過去咧 就是說這個合法刑事保護鏈的比例咧來來 那一個次長\n我們在偵查中發這種刑事保護令目前大概是六成因為我看一下你們這個數字這應該是大概五成五成五到六成左右啦但是就是說這個預知的比率六成然後按照這個下面是哪些款項\n比如說第一款到第五款啊大概的是有哪一些範圍通常是第二款一二款都有可能那個是比較立即的那個危險那我是希望啦就是說剛剛看也發生說有一些斷層\n那剛才就是說第31條這個預防性羈押的這部分我是希望說藉由這個個案我們再去討論你們怎麼樣把這個反覆實施然後具有這個傷害性這邊把它這個不論是更明確化一點點或是說看怎麼樣去做一個說明跟解釋讓這一條有實際上應用的一個機會啦我們會加強宣導跟訓練好 謝謝 謝謝主席\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:08.844 --> 00:17.009\n謝謝主席那我們請這個司法院的副秘書長馬文副秘然後法務部的次長衛福部的次長兩位次長\n\n00:24.229 --> 00:50.847\n今天我們談論這個主題那當然主要事發是主因是在7月7號塗成這個不訓練這個事件那這件事情其實大家都知道那我現在想請問一下包括我們社法院法務部還有衛福部如果啦如果有機會阻止悲劇的話現在你們來想當時候在做哪些的一些程序哪些措施如果做下去的話有可能防止這個悲劇來發生\n\n00:52.130 --> 00:53.423\n我們先請那個副秘書長好不好\n\n00:57.491 --> 01:25.354\n跟委員那個報告就是有關於那個家暴那個防治呢他是一個全網絡的就是他連結各機關那就是說從一剛開始譬如說他合法保護令的時候他一定要有充分的那個資訊給那個法院所以呢就是說像那個警政機關他們那個家防官或者是說主管機關他們那個社工呢就是對於評估要很精準的去評估說這個個案他是不是屬於一個高風險的那個個案\n\n01:25.874 --> 01:41.456\n那也因此就是說他的這個其實現在都已經有相關的這一些那個評估的那個量表了就是說這些要非常那個精準的把這個風險因子把它給那個抓出來那像譬如說\n\n01:41.877 --> 02:11.580\n但是我覺得就這件來講當初是有哪些環節疏忽掉的在法院這部分我現在要連結講就是說像這一件進到法院來的時候事實上我們開庭所有的相關的措施就是保護措施什麼隔離之類的都做了那當時7月7號當天就是說被害人他離開的時候也有護送他社工有護送他坐計程車離開了那所以說其實在法院端這些該做的都做了那就是\n\n02:13.421 --> 02:27.806\n但是我要提到一點就是連結到剛剛那個就是說他這一件當時事實上法院涉案的時候他的這個風險的那個評估量表事實上這上面所評估的那個風險那個分數事實上是不高的那這是由誰來寫的\n\n02:29.378 --> 02:39.995\n這是由那個家防官家防官來寫的那家防官是比如說是這個被害人他的陳述嗎警政機關警政機關警政機關他來看\n\n02:43.993 --> 03:05.564\n那個受害者他的被害人他的陳述嗎那還是這一個警政機關他們怎麼樣去去做這件事情那次長要那個學次長要做個說明嗎還是警政署要做個說明這一個是警政署的警政署因為剛剛複密有提到這一塊因為我想說有哪些環節可以把它補起來的啦\n\n03:07.767 --> 03:28.683\n我跟委員報告一下這個親密關係的這個危險評估表我們叫TIDA量表它有八項是要詢問被害人自己的感受那有五項是被害人自行陳述他是不是覺得有危險的狀況那它這個八項裡面呢都是很具體的譬如說對方是不是有曾經做出一些危險或動作傷害當初的被害人\n\n03:29.625 --> 03:36.487\n在這個陳述裡面這個量表裡面所陳述出來的是很低的是很低的是很低的初期的時候是很低一直到7月2號因為他前幾天這個發生有這個槍隊人對他還有一些打電話騷擾他或者是有一些騷擾這個到他的工作場所去騷擾的動作他又重複再去報案的時候他自己的評估的這個危險程度就很高\n\n03:57.632 --> 04:20.912\n所以那個時候我們就把他通報成是一個高風險的個案所以當時候有通報通報給社政系統那法院或是說檢察官那邊知道這個情況嗎如果在這個通報的階段是還沒有進入到法院或者是檢察官因為他這個案子在初期五月份受理的時候那這個斷層就在這邊有出現了一個啦\n\n04:23.615 --> 04:35.951\n不是因為他這個案子初期的時候已經有申請保護令在等待審核對我是說後來當這個受害人他說這個已經你們也認為說他是屬於高風險了但是呢在法院端或是說檢察官那邊還沒有得到這個訊息\n\n04:40.373 --> 05:01.486\n高危機的個案就是進入社政系統的評估跟我們在保護令執行的對只有到社政系統而已但是還沒有到法院端還沒有到檢察官那邊到法院端就是我們依照它違反保護令罪的狀況我們再調查之後再搜最新的那個情況就是說剛開始被害人可能覺得說風險沒那麼高但是後來風險有提高了嘛\n\n05:02.466 --> 05:11.458\n那風險提高之後我要說的就是說除了社政單位知道之外然後在法院在檢察官那邊是哪時候那所以檢察官知道這個訊息嗎\n\n05:21.092 --> 05:46.558\n沒有這個案子到7月7號我們才拿到相關的資料對啊那所以就是斷層就是在這邊嘛我這樣問啦就是說大家都在這邊嘛那斷層就在這邊就是當受害人他已經覺得說這一個他的先生這個謝姓男子已經對他造成一些高風險的一些有可能一些傷害的可能性那但是呢在法院或是在檢察官這邊沒有得到這個訊息\n\n05:47.518 --> 05:59.021\n他只有通報到社政系統所以我在想說這個當你們知道這個訊息之後你們要怎麼樣通報目前是這條線是沒有那還是說有但是你們沒有去做咧\n\n06:01.295 --> 06:24.779\n這個部分因為它涉及到地檢署的管轄不同土城分局的這個案子我們第一階段已經處理了但是後來到工作場所去騷擾的時候是台北市所以我們台北市是報台北市的檢察官指揮那是在7月2號所以這個部分我們有通報但是這個地檢署的管轄不同那所以說你有通報給台北地檢署\n\n06:28.774 --> 06:45.788\n所以這樣問起來這個就是一個問題了啊就是說當你們知道說這個風險增加的時候但是在檢察官或是在法院這邊並不知道這件事情我這樣聽起來是這樣子嘛那我再請教一下徐次長那這件事情呢你們有做過檢討嗎\n\n06:47.174 --> 07:04.684\n有我想我們最主要是有兩點第一個就是我們剛才問的這些網絡的夥伴一定要建立高風險評估機制我們各部會資訊要及時能夠串接以提供給檢察官這件事情來講\n\n07:05.644 --> 07:33.617\n對就是事後檢討就是這樣就是說我們現在就是你們有這個狀況的話一定要趕快通報告把相關的資料每一次只要聯繫檢察官的時候一定要把所有的資料都附在裡面包括7月6號那一天有他毀損的時候你用違反保護令罪過來的時候你相關的評估報告跟所有的事證都要附在那一個案子裡面就現在沒有那時候當時是沒有沒有沒有附所以你們也不知道不知道\n\n07:34.517 --> 08:01.996\n好那我請一下那個衛福部我們市長那這件事情因為你們前幾天也開過會嘛是沒錯那對這件事情呢對沒錯確實就誠如剛剛許市長剛剛所說我們現在認為就是說確實這一整個我們當然是設政可是裡面有包括警察還有包括這一就是警察同仁還有檢察官這邊剛剛說的整個資料串接啦這個部分我覺得是我們事後檢討我們認為應該要趕快來補期的部分所以這個\n\n08:04.318 --> 08:24.038\n這個斷層就發生了訊息之間彼此沒有流通啊對沒錯沒錯就高風險的這一個通報啦通報的情況好那我再請問一下現在就是說按照資料來講有這個發給保護令之後有八成的加害人沒有再有肢體的暴力但是還是有兩層還是有兩層那這兩層的話你們要怎麼樣去做\n\n08:27.922 --> 08:42.058\n處理就是說能夠讓已經合法保護令之後我們還是希望說加害人的這些肢體暴力的行為能夠降到最低其實剛剛有提到就是說第61條其實我們現在目前是說三年以下其實\n\n08:44.420 --> 09:05.772\n當天其實也有這一個也有委員建議其實這個刑責就是嚇阻的部分或許可以再來提高因為我們現在三年可能提高到譬如說就是說一定的這一個年度不過這個當然是牽涉到整個修法的那個過程還有另外一個就是說有提到說這一個違反這個家暴法對沒錯它的整個是一個嚇阻的這一個那刑事訴訟法這方面咧\n\n09:10.523 --> 09:24.183\n這個部分不是衛福部的權責這個我們就尊重法務司法院這邊的一個權責那我再請問一下家暴法第31條有所謂的預防性的羈押\n\n09:25.785 --> 09:41.725\n那我們預防性的羈押是不是大家覺得說因為沒有足夠的一些證據或是怎麼樣所以很少去用到這一條預防性羈押這部分我是不是請那個複密處長或是徐市長你們都回答一下\n\n09:43.735 --> 09:55.981\n我跟委員報告預防性羈押的話當然就是一個防止這個進一步的危害發生但是它有一個要件就要重複反覆實施的要件所以這個案子是沒有\n\n09:57.200 --> 10:18.139\n他的現存的資料是沒有這樣不符合但是關於這個31條預防性羈押你們這一個使用這一條的機會大嗎因為我看說檢察官申請羈押混准大概100多件而已113年總共違反保護令罪是6048人那預防性羈押153人偏低啊\n\n10:22.602 --> 10:34.226\n這個有要件的我知道有要件啦我意思是說是不是因為他的要件就像市長所講的要一個反覆實施要有危險有危險那還是很慎重的可是因為這個個案大家又開始要討論說這個所謂預防性羈押\n\n10:39.059 --> 10:52.648\n的真的實施上這一條雖然法有定但是好像實際上能夠用到這一條的機會不多所以我們就是要補那一塊所謂的反覆實施有利己為再犯其的風險所以我們才會是說欸這一個\n\n10:54.589 --> 11:16.924\n高風險評估要隨著案件要進來檢察官才能夠判斷說是不是符合這個預防性羈押這個很重要好那我最後再問好因為時間要到主席站起來了那問一下副秘書長我們加法保第31條這個我們有所謂的刑事保護令那刑事保護令的這個合法的比例是不是也是偏低\n\n11:18.001 --> 11:45.072\n不是說在這一件因為他這一件譬如說他問完之後發現說他這個沒有羈押的必要但是呢那至少我們可以這個包含31條的第一款到第五款都有一些條件可以要求這一個我們的被告要去遵守那像這個案件也沒有嘛那我的意思是說我們是不是可以為了增加嚇阻力來提高這個刑事這個保護令的合法的比例\n\n11:46.883 --> 12:04.931\n報告委員這個案件中他的那個羈押是他沒有向法院那個申請羈押所以說法院當然也無從就是會去下這些相關的這些那個保護鏈那過去咧就是說這個合法刑事保護鏈的比例咧來來那一個次長\n\n12:10.848 --> 12:30.991\n我們在偵查中發這種刑事保護令目前大概是六成因為我看一下你們這個數字這應該是大概五成五成五到六成左右啦但是就是說這個預知的比率六成然後按照這個下面是哪些款項\n\n12:32.879 --> 12:49.269\n比如說第一款到第五款啊大概的是有哪一些範圍通常是第二款一二款都有可能那個是比較立即的那個危險那我是希望啦就是說剛剛看也發生說有一些斷層\n\n12:50.410 --> 13:07.919\n那剛才就是說第31條這個預防性羈押的這部分我是希望說藉由這個個案我們再去討論你們怎麼樣把這個反覆實施然後具有這個傷害性這邊把它這個不論是更明確化一點點或是說看怎麼樣去做一個說明跟解釋讓這一條有實際上應用的一個機會啦我們會加強宣導跟訓練好謝謝謝謝主席\n\n","segments":[{"start":8.844,"end":17.009,"text":"謝謝主席那我們請這個司法院的副秘書長馬文副秘然後法務部的次長 衛福部的次長兩位次長"},{"start":24.229,"end":50.847,"text":"今天我們談論這個主題那當然主要事發是 主因是在7月7號塗成這個不訓練這個事件那這件事情其實大家都知道那我現在想請問一下包括我們社法院法務部還有衛福部如果啦 如果有機會阻止悲劇的話現在你們來想當時候在做哪些的一些程序 哪些措施如果做下去的話有可能防止這個悲劇來發生"},{"start":52.13,"end":53.423,"text":"我們先請那個副秘書長好不好"},{"start":57.491,"end":85.354,"text":"跟委員那個報告就是有關於那個家暴那個防治呢他是一個全網絡的就是他連結各機關那就是說從一剛開始譬如說他合法保護令的時候他一定要有充分的那個資訊給那個法院所以呢就是說像那個警政機關他們那個家防官或者是說主管機關他們那個社工呢就是對於評估要很精準的去評估說這個個案他是不是屬於一個高風險的那個個案"},{"start":85.874,"end":101.456,"text":"那也因此就是說他的這個其實現在都已經有相關的這一些那個評估的那個量表了就是說這些要非常那個精準的把這個風險因子把它給那個抓出來那像譬如說"},{"start":101.877,"end":131.58,"text":"但是我覺得就這件來講當初是有哪些環節疏忽掉的在法院這部分我現在要連結講就是說像這一件進到法院來的時候事實上我們開庭所有的相關的措施就是保護措施什麼隔離之類的都做了那當時7月7號當天就是說被害人他離開的時候也有護送他社工有護送他坐計程車離開了那所以說其實在法院端這些該做的都做了那就是"},{"start":133.421,"end":147.806,"text":"但是我要提到一點就是連結到剛剛那個就是說他這一件當時事實上法院涉案的時候他的這個風險的那個評估量表事實上這上面所評估的那個風險那個分數事實上是不高的那這是由誰來寫的"},{"start":149.378,"end":159.995,"text":"這是由那個家防官家防官來寫的那家防官是比如說是這個被害人他的陳述嗎警政機關警政機關警政機關他來看"},{"start":163.993,"end":185.564,"text":"那個受害者他的被害人他的陳述嗎那還是這一個警政機關他們怎麼樣去去做這件事情那次長要那個學次長要做個說明嗎還是警政署要做個說明這一個是警政署的警政署因為剛剛複密有提到這一塊因為我想說有哪些環節可以把它補起來的啦"},{"start":187.767,"end":208.683,"text":"我跟委員報告一下這個親密關係的這個危險評估表我們叫TIDA量表它有八項是要詢問被害人自己的感受那有五項是被害人自行陳述他是不是覺得有危險的狀況那它這個八項裡面呢都是很具體的譬如說對方是不是有曾經做出一些危險或動作傷害當初的被害人"},{"start":209.625,"end":216.487,"text":"在這個陳述裡面這個量表裡面所陳述出來的是很低的是很低的是很低的初期的時候是很低一直到7月2號因為他前幾天這個發生有這個槍隊人對他還有一些打電話騷擾他或者是有一些騷擾這個到他的工作場所去騷擾的動作他又重複再去報案的時候他自己的評估的這個危險程度就很高"},{"start":237.632,"end":260.912,"text":"所以那個時候我們就把他通報成是一個高風險的個案所以當時候有通報通報給社政系統那法院或是說檢察官那邊知道這個情況嗎如果在這個通報的階段是還沒有進入到法院或者是檢察官因為他這個案子在初期五月份受理的時候那這個斷層就在這邊有出現了一個啦"},{"start":263.615,"end":275.951,"text":"不是因為他這個案子初期的時候已經有申請保護令在等待審核對 我是說後來當這個受害人他說這個已經你們也認為說他是屬於高風險了但是呢在法院端或是說檢察官那邊還沒有得到這個訊息"},{"start":280.373,"end":301.486,"text":"高危機的個案就是進入社政系統的評估跟我們在保護令執行的對 只有到社政系統而已但是還沒有到法院端還沒有到檢察官那邊到法院端就是我們依照它違反保護令罪的狀況我們再調查之後再搜最新的那個情況就是說剛開始被害人可能覺得說風險沒那麼高但是後來風險有提高了嘛"},{"start":302.466,"end":311.458,"text":"那風險提高之後我要說的就是說除了社政單位知道之外然後在法院在檢察官那邊是哪時候那所以檢察官知道這個訊息嗎"},{"start":321.092,"end":346.558,"text":"沒有 這個案子到7月7號我們才拿到相關的資料對啊 那所以就是斷層就是在這邊嘛我這樣問啦 就是說大家都在這邊嘛那斷層就在這邊 就是當受害人他已經覺得說這一個他的先生 這個謝姓男子已經對他造成一些高風險的一些 有可能一些傷害的可能性那但是呢 在法院或是在檢察官這邊沒有得到這個訊息"},{"start":347.518,"end":359.021,"text":"他只有通報到 社政系統所以我在想說這個 當你們知道這個訊息之後你們要怎麼樣通報目前是這條線是沒有那還是說有 但是你們沒有去做咧"},{"start":361.295,"end":384.779,"text":"這個部分因為它涉及到地檢署的管轄不同土城分局的這個案子我們第一階段已經處理了但是後來到工作場所去騷擾的時候是台北市所以我們台北市是報台北市的檢察官指揮那是在7月2號所以這個部分我們有通報但是這個地檢署的管轄不同那所以說你有通報給台北地檢署"},{"start":388.774,"end":405.788,"text":"所以這樣問起來這個就是一個問題了啊就是說當你們知道說這個風險增加的時候但是在檢察官或是在法院這邊並不知道這件事情我這樣聽起來是這樣子嘛那我再請教一下徐次長那這件事情呢你們有做過檢討嗎"},{"start":407.174,"end":424.684,"text":"有 我想我們最主要是有兩點第一個就是我們剛才問的這些網絡的夥伴一定要建立高風險評估機制我們各部會資訊要及時能夠串接以提供給檢察官這件事情來講"},{"start":425.644,"end":453.617,"text":"對就是事後檢討就是這樣就是說我們現在就是你們有這個狀況的話一定要趕快通報告把相關的資料每一次只要聯繫檢察官的時候一定要把所有的資料都附在裡面包括7月6號那一天有他毀損的時候你用違反保護令罪過來的時候你相關的評估報告跟所有的事證都要附在那一個案子裡面就現在沒有那時候當時是沒有沒有沒有附所以你們也不知道不知道"},{"start":454.517,"end":481.996,"text":"好 那我請一下那個衛福部 我們市長那這件事情 因為你們前幾天也開過會嘛是 沒錯那對這件事情呢對 沒錯 確實就誠如剛剛許市長剛剛所說我們現在認為就是說確實這一整個我們當然是設政 可是裡面有包括警察還有包括這一 就是警察同仁還有檢察官這邊剛剛說的整個資料串接啦這個部分我覺得是我們事後檢討我們認為應該要趕快來補期的部分所以這個"},{"start":484.318,"end":504.038,"text":"這個斷層就發生了 訊息之間彼此沒有流通啊對 沒錯 沒錯 就高風險的這一個通報啦 通報的情況好 那我再請問一下 現在就是說按照資料來講 有這個發給保護令之後有八成的加害人沒有再有肢體的暴力但是還是有兩層 還是有兩層 那這兩層的話你們要怎麼樣去做"},{"start":507.922,"end":522.058,"text":"處理就是說能夠讓已經合法保護令之後我們還是希望說加害人的這些肢體暴力的行為能夠降到最低其實剛剛有提到就是說第61條其實我們現在目前是說三年以下其實"},{"start":524.42,"end":545.772,"text":"當天其實也有這一個 也有委員建議其實這個刑責 就是嚇阻的部分 或許可以再來提高因為我們現在三年 可能提高到譬如說 就是說一定的這一個年度不過這個當然是牽涉到整個修法的那個過程還有另外一個就是說有提到說這一個違反這個家暴法對 沒錯 它的整個是一個嚇阻的這一個那刑事訴訟法這方面咧"},{"start":550.523,"end":564.183,"text":"這個部分不是衛福部的權責 這個我們就尊重法務司法院這邊的一個權責那我再請問一下 家暴法第31條有所謂的預防性的羈押"},{"start":565.785,"end":581.725,"text":"那我們預防性的羈押是不是大家覺得說因為沒有足夠的一些證據或是怎麼樣所以很少去用到這一條預防性羈押這部分我是不是請那個複密處長或是徐市長你們都回答一下"},{"start":583.735,"end":595.981,"text":"我跟委員報告 預防性羈押的話當然就是一個防止這個進一步的危害發生但是它有一個要件就要重複反覆實施的要件所以這個案子是沒有"},{"start":597.2,"end":618.139,"text":"他的現存的資料是沒有這樣不符合但是關於這個31條預防性羈押你們這一個使用這一條的機會大嗎因為我看說檢察官申請羈押混准大概100多件而已113年總共違反保護令罪是6048人那預防性羈押153人偏低啊"},{"start":622.602,"end":634.226,"text":"這個有要件的我知道有要件啦我意思是說是不是因為他的要件就像市長所講的要一個反覆實施要有危險有危險那還是很慎重的可是因為這個個案大家又開始要討論說這個所謂預防性羈押"},{"start":639.059,"end":652.648,"text":"的真的實施上這一條雖然法有定但是好像實際上能夠用到這一條的機會不多所以我們就是要補那一塊所謂的反覆實施有利己為再犯其的風險所以我們才會是說欸這一個"},{"start":654.589,"end":676.924,"text":"高風險評估要隨著案件要進來檢察官才能夠判斷說是不是符合這個預防性羈押這個很重要好那我最後再問好因為時間要到主席站起來了那問一下副秘書長我們加法保第31條這個我們有所謂的刑事保護令那刑事保護令的這個合法的比例是不是也是偏低"},{"start":678.001,"end":705.072,"text":"不是說在這一件 因為他這一件 譬如說他問完之後發現說他這個沒有羈押的必要但是呢 那至少我們可以這個包含31條的第一款到第五款都有一些條件可以要求這一個我們的被告要去遵守那像這個案件也沒有嘛 那我的意思是說我們是不是可以為了增加嚇阻力來提高這個刑事這個保護令的合法的比例"},{"start":706.883,"end":724.931,"text":"報告委員 這個案件中他的那個羈押是他沒有向法院那個申請羈押所以說法院當然也無從就是會去下這些相關的這些那個保護鏈那過去咧 就是說這個合法刑事保護鏈的比例咧來來 那一個次長"},{"start":730.848,"end":750.991,"text":"我們在偵查中發這種刑事保護令目前大概是六成因為我看一下你們這個數字這應該是大概五成五成五到六成左右啦但是就是說這個預知的比率六成然後按照這個下面是哪些款項"},{"start":752.879,"end":769.269,"text":"比如說第一款到第五款啊大概的是有哪一些範圍通常是第二款一二款都有可能那個是比較立即的那個危險那我是希望啦就是說剛剛看也發生說有一些斷層"},{"start":770.41,"end":787.919,"text":"那剛才就是說第31條這個預防性羈押的這部分我是希望說藉由這個個案我們再去討論你們怎麼樣把這個反覆實施然後具有這個傷害性這邊把它這個不論是更明確化一點點或是說看怎麼樣去做一個說明跟解釋讓這一條有實際上應用的一個機會啦我們會加強宣導跟訓練好 謝謝 謝謝主席"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":927,"blocks":[["李委員坤城：（11時22分）謝謝主席，我們請司法院的副秘書長以及法務部的次長、衛福部的次長。"],["主席：麻煩副秘、兩位次長。"],["李委員坤城：謝謝。"],["王副秘書長梅英：委員早。"],["李委員坤城：今天我們談論這個主題，主因是在7月7號土城的這個不幸事件，這件事情其實大家都知道，我現在想請問一下，包含司法院、法務部還有衛福部，如果有機會阻止悲劇的話，現在你們來想想，當時候哪一些程序、措施如果做下去有可能防止這個悲劇發生？我們先請副秘書長。"],["王副秘書長梅英：跟委員報告，關於家暴防治是一個全網絡的、有連結各機關，從一剛開始，譬如說要核發保護令的時候一定要有充分的資訊給法院，所以像警政機關的家防官或者是主管機關的社工要很精準地評估這個個案是不是屬於一個高風險的個案，其實現在都已經有一些相關的評估量表，針對這方面要非常精準地把風險因子抓出來，譬如說……"],["李委員坤城：就這件來講，在法院這部分當初有哪些環節疏忽掉了？"],["王副秘書長梅英：我現在要連結來講，像這一件進到法院的時候，事實上我們開庭對於所有的相關措施也都做了，像是保護措施、隔離等等，而7月7號當天被害人離開的時候也有社工護送他坐計程車離開，所以其實在法院端這些該做的都做了。","但我要提到一點就是連結到剛剛那個，這一件當時法院收案的時候，他的風險評估量表所評估的風險分數事實上是不高的。"],["李委員坤城：那這個是由誰來寫的？"],["王副秘書長梅英：這是由這件的家防官。"],["李委員坤城：家防官寫的？"],["王副秘書長梅英：是！"],["李委員坤城：家防官是依據被害人的陳述嗎？"],["王副秘書長梅英：警政機關。"],["李委員坤城：警政機關依據被害人的陳述嗎？警政機關怎麼樣做這件事情？徐次長要說明還是警政署要說明？"],["徐次長錫祥：這一個是警政署的業務。"],["李委員坤城：警政署，因為剛剛副秘有提到這一塊，我想瞭解有哪些環節可以把它補起來？"],["廖副署長美鈴：我跟委員報告一下，這個親密關係危險評估表叫TIPVDA量表，它有8項是要詢問被害人自己的感受，有5項是被害人自行陳述是不是覺得有危險的狀況，而這8項裡面都是很具體的，譬如說對方是不是曾經做出一些危險動作傷害等等。"],["李委員坤城：當初被害人在這個量表裡面所陳述出來的？"],["廖副署長美鈴：是很低的。"],["李委員坤城：是很低的？"],["廖副署長美鈴：初期的時候是很低，一直到7月2號，因為前幾天發生相對人還有打電話騷擾或者是到他工作場所騷擾的動作，當又重複再去報案的時候，他自己評估的危險程度就很高，所以那個時候我們就把他通報成一個高風險的個案，通報到社政系統。"],["李委員坤城：所以當時候有通報？"],["廖副署長美鈴：有通報給社政系統。"],["李委員坤城：那法院或是檢察官那邊知道這個情況嗎？"],["廖副署長美鈴：在這個通報階段還沒有進入到法院或者是檢察官，因為這個案子在初期5月份受理的時候……"],["李委員坤城：那在這邊就有出現一個斷層！"],["廖副署長美鈴：不是，因為這個案子初期的時候已經有聲請保護令在等待審核，而且……"],["李委員坤城：對，我指的是，後來你們也認為他是屬於高風險了，但是在法院端或是檢察官那邊還沒有得到這個訊息，是不是？"],["廖副署長美鈴：高危機的個案就是進入社政系統的評估跟我們在保護令執行……"],["李委員坤城：對，只有到社政系統而已，但是還沒有到法院端、還沒有到檢察官那邊？"],["廖副署長美鈴：到法院端就是依照他違反保護令罪的狀況，我們調查之後再送。"],["李委員坤城：我是說最新的那個情況，也就是說，剛開始被害人可能覺得風險沒那麼高，但是後來風險有提高了，那風險提高之後，除了社政單位知道之外，在法院、在檢察官那邊……"],["廖副署長美鈴：有，後來這個案件我們就有報檢察官指揮。"],["李委員坤城：是哪時候？"],["廖副署長美鈴：就是在7月2號受理之後，我們就馬上……"],["李委員坤城：所以檢察官知道這個訊息嗎？"],["徐次長錫祥：沒有，這個案子到7月7號我們才拿到相關的資料。"],["李委員坤城：對啊，所以斷層就是在這邊嘛！我這樣問，大家都在這邊，那斷層就在這邊，當受害人已經覺得他的先生（謝姓男子）已經有對他造成一些高風險傷害的可能性，但是法院或是檢察官這邊沒有得到這個訊息，他只有通報到社政系統。所以當你們知道這個訊息之後，你們要怎麼樣通報？目前沒有這條線，還是有，但你們沒有去做？"],["廖副署長美鈴：這個部分因為涉及到地檢署的管轄不同，土城分局的這個案子我們第一階段已經處理了，但是後來到工作場所去騷擾的時候是臺北市，所以我們是報臺北市的檢察官指揮，那是在7月2號，所以這個部分我們有通報，但是地檢署的管轄不同。"],["李委員坤城：所以你有通報給臺北地檢署？"],["廖副署長美鈴：我們通報的是社政系統裡面、在婦幼案件裡面。"],["李委員坤城：依我這樣問起來，這就是一個問題，當你們知道風險增加的時候，但是在檢察官或是法院這邊並不知道這件事情，我聽起來是這樣子。","我再請教一下徐次長，這件事情你們有做過檢討嗎？"],["徐次長錫祥：有，最主要有兩點，第一個，就是剛才問的這些網絡夥伴一定要建立高風險評估機制，各部會的資訊要能夠及時串接，以提供給檢察官。"],["李委員坤城：就這件事情來講。"],["徐次長錫祥：對，事後檢討就是這樣，其他人有這個狀況的話一定要趕快通報，每一次聯繫檢察官的時候一定要把所有的資料都附在裡面，包括7月6號那一天他毀損，你用違反保護令罪過來的時候，相關的評估報告跟所有的事證都要附在那一個案子裡。"],["李委員坤城：所以那時候沒有？"],["徐次長錫祥：當時是沒有。"],["李委員坤城：沒有附，所以你們也不知道？"],["徐次長錫祥：不知道。"],["李委員坤城：我請一下衛福部次長，針對這件事情你們前幾天也開過會嘛？"],["呂次長建德：是，沒錯。"],["李委員坤城：對於這件事情呢？"],["呂次長建德：就誠如剛剛徐次長所說的，我們現在認為，確實這一整個當然是社政，可是裡面有包括警察同仁，還有檢察官這邊，剛剛說的整個資料的串接，這個部分是我們事後檢討，認為應該要趕快來補齊的部分。"],["李委員坤城：所以這個斷層就發生了？"],["呂次長建德：沒錯，就剛剛說的整個高風險……"],["李委員坤城：訊息之間，彼此沒有流通。"],["呂次長建德：沒錯，就高風險的通報情況。"],["李委員坤城：好，我再請問一下，現在按照資料來講，發給保護令之後，有八成的加害人沒有再有肢體的暴力，但還是有兩成……"],["呂次長建德：對，沒錯。"],["李委員坤城：關於這兩成，你們要怎麼樣去做處理？就是能夠在已經核發保護令之後，我們還是希望加害人的這些肢體暴力的行為能夠降到最低？"],["呂次長建德：其實剛剛也有提到，第六十一條目前是三年以下，當天其實也有委員建議刑責方面，就嚇阻的部分，或許可以再來提高，比如現在是三年，可能提高到一定的年度，不過這當然會牽涉到整個修法的過程，還有另外一個……"],["李委員坤城：有提到違反家暴法是三年……"],["呂次長建德：對，沒錯，它整個嚇阻的這一個……"],["李委員坤城：那刑事訴訟法這方面呢？"],["呂次長建德：這個部分不是衛福部的權責，關於這個，我們就尊重司法院這邊的權責。"],["李委員坤城：好，我再請問一下，家暴法第三十條之一有所謂的預防性羈押。"],["呂次長建德：沒錯。"],["李委員坤城：關於預防性羈押，大家是不是覺得因為沒有足夠的證據或是怎麼樣，所以很少去用到這條預防性羈押？這部分是不是請副秘書長或是徐次長都回答一下？"],["徐次長錫祥：跟委員報告，預防性羈押當然就是要防止進一步的危害發生，但是它有一個要件是要重複，反覆實施的要件，我們才能跟法院聲請……"],["李委員坤城：所以這個案子是沒有……"],["徐次長錫祥：它現存的資料是沒有這樣，不符合……"],["李委員坤城：但是關於第三十條之一的預防性羈押，你們使用這一條的機會大嗎？因為我看檢察官聲請羈押獲准的大概一百多件而已。"],["徐次長錫祥：113年違反保護令罪的總共是6,048人，預防性羈押是153人。"],["李委員坤城：偏低。"],["徐次長錫祥：這個有要件的……"],["李委員坤城：對，我知道有要件……"],["徐次長錫祥：不是說……"],["李委員坤城：我的意思是，是不是因為它的要件就像次長所講的要反覆實施？"],["徐次長錫祥：對，要有危險才可以，因為羈押還是很慎重的。"],["李委員坤城：對啊，可是因為這個個案，大家又開始討論所謂預防性羈押在實際實施上，雖然法有訂這一條，但是好像實際上，能夠用到這一條的機會不多。"],["徐次長錫祥：所以我們就是要補那一塊，所謂的反覆實施，有立即再犯的風險，所以我們才會說高風險評估要隨著案件進來，檢察官才能夠判斷是不是符合預防性羈押，這個很重要。"],["李委員坤城：好，我最後再問，因為時間到，主席也站起來了。我問一下副秘書長，家暴法第三十一條有所謂的刑事保護令，刑事保護令核發的比例是不是也是偏低？比如說他問完之後發現他沒有羈押的必要，但是至少可以要求，包含第三十一條第一款到第五款，都有一些條件可以要求這一個被告要去遵守，像這個案件也沒有嘛？我的意思是，我們是不是可以為了增加嚇阻力來提高刑事保護令的核發比例？"],["王副秘書長梅英：報告委員，這個案件中，事實上，他沒有向法院聲請羈押，所以法院當然也無從去下這一些相關的保護令。"],["李委員坤城：那過去呢？就是核發刑事保護令的比例呢？請次長。"],["徐次長錫祥：我們在偵查中發這種刑事保護令目前大概是六成。"],["李委員坤城：六成？"],["徐次長錫祥：對。"],["李委員坤城：因為我看了一下你們的數字，大概五成五到六成左右，你說諭知的比率有六成，是按照下面哪些款項？比如說第一款到第五款，大概是有哪些範圍？"],["徐次長錫祥：通常是第二款。"],["李委員坤城：通常是第二款？"],["徐次長錫祥：第一款、第二款都有可能。"],["李委員坤城：第一款、第二款都有可能？"],["徐次長錫祥：對，那個比較有立即的危險。"],["李委員坤城：那我是希望啦！因為剛剛看也發生了一些斷層，剛才說第三十條之一預防性羈押的這部分，我是希望藉由這個個案，我們再去討論，你們怎麼樣把反覆實施、具有傷害性，不論是更明確化一點點或是看怎麼樣去做一個說明跟解釋，讓這一條在實際上有應用的機會。"],["徐次長錫祥：我們會加強宣導跟訓練。"],["李委員坤城：好，謝謝，謝謝主席。"],["主席：謝謝，依據先前宣告，我們休息5分鐘。","休息（11時35分）","繼續開會（11時40分）"],["主席：繼續開會。","我們先處理會議時間，上午會議時間持續進行至所有登記發言委員詢答結束為止。","接下來我們請吳思瑤委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":144,"meet_id":"委員會-11-3-36-22","speakers":["吳宗憲","黃國昌","林倩綺","王義川","翁曉玲","沈發惠","羅智強","李坤城","吳思瑤","莊瑞雄","陳培瑜","林月琴","范雲","王鴻薇","徐欣瑩"],"page_start":51,"meetingDate":["2025-07-16"],"gazette_id":"1146701","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1146701_00003"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期司法及法制委員會第22次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請司法院副秘書長、法務部部長、衛生福利部部長、內政部警政署署長、教育部、勞動部、內\n政部移民署率所屬相關單位列席就「保護令不是萬能的?!如何避免憾事再度發生。家庭暴力防治\n法保護令核發，研析配套措施之檢討與精進，並提供相關統計數據」進行專題報告，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1146701_00002"}}}